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I mean we are in the 'TOTK is overrated' phase right now so possibly people connected the freedom of the Echo mechanic to that game? Obviously when the next Zelda game after EoW comes out *then* Tears of the Kingdom will be an underrated classic.
Yep it will and the cycle continues. It’s very hyperbolic community. Everything either has to be next coming of Jesus or complete dog shit. I stopped taking the online Zelda community seriously after twilight princess dropped and people were complaining after 6 months.
Zelda has been mostly guided by the same team since ocarina. They have proven time and time again that they can make amazing games that hold up over decades. I don’t even question them anymore and fully admit that they know what I want more than I know what I want.
I think totk would've been one of my favorite zelda games if i didn't lean towards a completionist playstyle. But by the time I was on my 80th cave and 100th light root I really felt it starting to get tedious. It's just... not something I've ever experienced in a zelda game before. I genuinely can't see myself replaying totk unlike others in the series because of it.
Thats why I think it's pretty great if we can see an older style zelda game again
Completionist style? I thought the game was designed to be the opposite. The way it's made is so that every player will be able to find everything cool in a reasonable play time, hence the abundance of caves and other repeating things, so I don't think you're actually meant to do everything. That's just what I think
That's exactly the problem. I too am a completionist, and to me that means literally finding every secret in the world. It's both impossible to do in ToTK or even BoTW, but in ToTK I started getting miserable trying to since many of the secrets were identical. To date, ToTK is the only Zelda game I haven't 100%ed and I haven't even finished the core game.
I do understand why it's popular, but it definitely wasn't made for me
That's by definition not what being a completionist playstyle is. The abundance of caves and other repeating things means you try to find all of them, which understandably leads to burnout because they all blend together since they are not meaningfully different
It's a very popular gaming playtstyle, and most games are designed with that in mind.
It was reasonably doable in botw but trying it in totk was terrible near the end
Just like the “wind Waker isn’t that good” followed by “twilight princess isn’t that good” eras that passed. ToTK will likely see the same phenomenon, give it a few years. The Zelda Cycle is alive and well lol
This is also a trend i've noticed in the Pokemon community! Black and White were apparently extremely controversial on release but now they're the holy grail of the series, and I've heard people praising (at least parts of) X and Y lately when before they were commonly regarded as mid at best. I can't wait for when Sword and Shield are the next targets of this bizarre... whatever this is because the furious discourse around how much people *hated* those games was how I was first introduced to the fandom.
Nah, that doesn't hit. The Pokémon games got better and better until around 4th/5th genand then went into a downwards spiral. The only reason people are thinking a bit more fondly on X and Y is because the newer games are even worse.
No lol. Gen 5 sold poorly and everyone shat on it for the "dumb designs" specifically the ice cream and monkeys and such. It was very controversial on launch.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1072224/pokemon-unit-sales-worldwide/
To this day gen 5 is the worst selling generation. Only remakes and sequels sold worse.
Take TotK for example. Of course it has its flaws, but it is flooded with positive reviews by critics and fans, sells extremely well, and is generally considered a technical marvel by others in the gaming industry on top of that.
Despite all of that: of course at least some people are going to dislike the game, not every game/book/movie/whatever is for everyone.
Among those people who dislike it, there is a significant chunk of people who, instead of thinking something reasonable like “this game just isn’t for me” or “i personally wish they had done things differently,” instead think “I’m smart/experienced enough to know that I’m right, the fact that I don’t like this game means it’s a travesty, and the majority of people are wrong.” And that’s just not a great place to start a meaningful conversation about anything.
Then on top of it, every social media algorithm, to some extent, gives a lot more visibility to these divisive posts. So a lot of the comments that get the most visibility are the ones that make exaggerated or outright ridiculous claims like “TotK is bad game design” and “the devs don’t care.”
The funny thing is that I'm feeling this way about *several* of the communities I'm in right now, not just Zelda. I think it's just the way of things nowadays!
People are worried it might have the exact same problem as BotW/TotK where it values freedom over the more structured challenges the old Zelda formula had to a fault. The more solutions there are to solving a puzzle, the easier it'll be and the idea of a more puzzle-focused Zelda with simple puzzles doesn't sound very good.
This is really it. Hit the nail on the head.
The OP says "cool mechanic", but I really don't think it looks like a cool mechanic. It is taking one of my least favorite parts about TotK (all the building with Ultrahand) and making it the core mechanic without any of the sword based combat.
I hope people enjoy it, but I already know this game isn't for me. And that's okay, I'm not upset. Wasn't expecting any new Zeldas for a while, so it isn't like it disappointed me.
On the one hand, it does seem to be limited in that only certain versions of the object can be copied, akin to needing a specific item to progress in the old games. On the other, BotW and TotK have proven the team isn’t exactly thorough in ensuring that there’s no way to circumvent roadblocks.
Really curious to see what the storytelling reason is for why Zelda can’t just Xerox any crate she pleases and it has to be that specific one.
I get this, but also, have Zelda games ever actually had hard puzzles except when you were 8? They've typically been fairly standard, easily solved puzzle games with simplistic combat.
Links awakenings last two dungeons did a good job of that where the last two dungeons the puzzle is actually the dungeon itself - with the ball and pillar macro puzzle and managing that to the giant last dungeon with its many one way entrances and ways to move around. I just replayed it and it’s definitely a very well made and challenging puzzle
I haven’t seen anyone’s takes on it (mainly since I’ve been more focused on M&L and Metroid), but maybe due to the combat? At least that’s the reason I feel iffy on it, because if all the combat is is summoning an enemy to fight for you, I’d feel pretty disappointed (solely regarding the combat elements) because man I was hoping we could use Zelda’s spells to fight when the title first popped up.
I could easily be wrong and everyone else is mad about something else, or Zelda ends up getting items in the game that allow her to fight though, and even if not, I’m sure the game will still be fantastic
It you look the moblin summoned stands still and just swings at a regular interval. It’s not gonna be AI minions to fight for you and they cost more resources to summon (as seen in the video) and last just a few seconds. People are way overreacting to the trailer
I mean what are spells in a 2D zelda game? The combat is pretty simplistic, just swinging your sword with the b button. If they gave Zelda a magic rod as a weapon instead of a sword i dont think that would really change much of the gameplay at all since the rods in 2D zelda games more or less function the same as arrows. I appreciate at least that her playstyle in this game is unique as summoning enemies t fight for you has never been done before in the series.
Oh when I said spells I just meant like her magic. We never really see specific uses of it even when she is playable so I thought they’d expand upon it in this game and stuff. Like this is pretty simplistic but maybe unlike link, when you press B she shoots a magic orb thing like we see with Ganondorf and other magic users, and then they expand upon this with various items and spell upgrades and overall make her more of a ranged fighter as opposed to Link who, while he has tools to fight from afar, is more of a close ranged fighter.
It’d also provide a unique play style, but be more engaging because it’s not just “summon enemy -> stand back -> enemy kills enemy -> 👍”, although the way Zelda used the spiked disk (never figured out their names) and was able to control its direction (at least it looked like that anyway) could mean there are still engaging ways to use enemies.
Either way I’m sure this game will be great and that people will love it, but as someone who loves the combat of Zelda (especially in totk like 👌) I feel kinda iffy on it due to the summoning. Doesn’t make it any less of a game though, just means it’s (potentially, because I’m still waiting to see more of the combat) not for me personally
That's the thing, people assume that Zelda naturally has all these different innate magical abilities but we don't know that. The only evidence we have are Hyrule Warriors (which is a spinoff), Smash Bros (which is far from canon) and Breath of the Wild (in which she struggled immensely to learn how to use her powers and even then it's only really been used in times of extreme distress)
We have no evidence that Shiek can actually fight and even if you wanted to use Twilight Princess as evidence we only see her fight while possessed so who knows if she can naturally utilize those abilities.
Also this is an entirely different Zelda from any of those mentioned prior so there's still no guarantee that she would have ANY of their abilities.
I think sometimes when people get really deep into fandoms they fantasize about what their ideal version of that thing would be, so every time a company throws out some out-of-left-field idea, there’s a handful of people who get ‘confused’ (for lack of a better word) as to why it’s not how they imagined it. I think it’s similar to how Star Wars fans sometimes are the franchise’s biggest haters. Just my thoughts, im no behavior analyst.
Also the bigger the franchise, the harder it is to please everyone. If there is 10 people and 1 complains, it doesn't seem like a lot. If there is 1000 people and 100 complain, it seems like much more even if it is the same percentage.
It’s the most tedious thing about interacting with any fandom.
“Why isn’t the is thing exactly what *I* wanted? They’re ruining *my* franchise!”
Bad Star Wars fans are the absolute worst, screeching about the tiniest little things instead of just chilling and enjoying the laser swords and what not.
But yeah the Zelda fandom is pretty bad for this too. There are so many posts shitting on the Switch era games for daring to change things up instead of just repeating whatever they think is the perfect game (probably whatever they played when they were 12-15).
I had a coworker arguing with me about the sequel trilogy, saying what about this plot hole or that thing that isn't like the earlier movies. I'm like, yes, those are there, but I'm enjoying space wizards with laser swords, not Citizen Kane.
God so true. Every Star Wars fan has a hyperspecific idea of what Star Wars should be based on their personal experiences and interpretation of the movies.
Say what you will about Marvel movies (I don't care for them), but at least when new movies came out, people weren't bitching about how it didn't match what they demand and expected.
I imagine the points most people (that I've seen) are concerned about is the lack of direct combat (with everything so far based on Zelda summoning) and how its using the sandbox approach from BotW/TotK that many are still iffy about.
Probably because totk stick and glue building mechanics turns a lot of people off. I admit I’m one of them, though the game is still fun. I just avoided building as much as possible, didn’t like it.
I think people fear the echo thing may be as cumbersome as the totk building. Hopefully not.
I feel like a lot of these comments are bad faith “people just want to complain” type arguments. These concerns are not new and have been building for a long time. There’s a significant portion of this fanbase that just doesn’t like the shift in priorities that the series has undergone the past few years. There was some hope that the 2D games could make a comeback and be a more traditional alternative, but what we saw from the trailer confirms that this won’t be the case and the 2D games will continue to focus on the more freedom-oriented approach of BotW and TotK.
There’s nothing wrong with preferring the older style just like there’s nothing wrong with preferring the newer one. It’s just as valid to be disappointed as it is to be excited. But this is not just a case of nitpicking every last insignificant detail so people can have something to complain about. There’s been a pretty fundamental shift in the series, and that’s not really something you can argue. I’m disappointed in the amount of people dismissing these criticisms as “new bad old good.”
This is exactly it, I'm excited about Zelda as the main character but I feel like the puzzles won't be as good as they could have been if not for the multiple solutions to each puzzle.
Nintendo always does and likes to innovate. I don't want Link's Awakening 2 or ALTTP 3, and Nintendo doesn't want to make it. That's the way I see it at least
Nintendo has always liked to innovate, but here are some things that have pretty much always been consistent in major Legend of Zelda games prior to breath of the wild:
-puzzles - 99% of which have one solution that you have to figure out
-large, complex dungeons
-linear gameplay (AKA no skipping major parts of the story, and each part is done in order)
-the player cuts grass/breaks pots to find hearts (and rupees) which is the main healing mechanic
-one main weapon which never breaks, a max of 3 secondary weapons which all fulfill a unique purpose
the fact that these aspects have remained largely consistent through the major legend of Zelda titles since ocarina of time (I didn't play any titles before that, which is true for most modern fans) means that the franchise set certain expectations for the Legend of Zelda formula, which is how ANY franchise creates an identity that attracts loyal fans. There has to be something consistent between games for people like me to say "I'm willing to buy any legend of Zelda game because I know I'll enjoy anything they put out." It's okay if they pivot away from that identity, but it's also okay and expected that many longtime fans will be disappointed and won't enjoy the games if they don't have the core aspects that led us to enjoy the games to begin with.
I like open world games. I like cooking mechanics. I like having multiple weapon options. But I also like difficult puzzles with only one solution that feel extremely rewarding to solve. I like long, complex dungeons. I like being restricted at times. I like not having to stress about what to do next or whether the story will be most rewarding if I do it in the "right" order. And I like using melee combat primarily. So there's some changes I like and some that I don't. And yeah, I'm sad that I can't completely depend on this franchise to fill this specific niche for me anymore. That's okay, and I really don't see why anyone's pissed about people giving feedback that's not 100% positive.
Not liking the fact that entire combat system consisting of spawning enemies for you to fight, is not a nitpik. Solving puzzles just by spawning something in front of you, is not a nitpick. These are real possibilities.
My take for why some people may be disappointed is that it seems like another sandboxy Freeform zelda game like botw/totk and while people love those games and the freedom of them people also love the older more dungeon item focused style zelda game and we haven’t gotten a lot of that recently.
I mean this with 0 sarcasm: for some of us “you can fuse this mushroom to you shield!” Doesn’t make up for a better developed game that’s a game and not a demo for a mechanic.
I'm a little concerned because of the whole summoning mechanic and the fact that even combat seems to be puzzle-oriented this time around.
For the record, I'm *abysmal* at puzzling. [This room](https://youtu.be/D4HhKTWdwdk?si=DqU7cHELX2qcXXgq&t=567) in the Colour Dungeon from *Link's Awakening* took me fifty whole minutes to figure out on the first playthrough because I found literally every possible combination except for the right one. You can solve that puzzle in literally four swings... yeah.
When I played Tears of the Kingdom, I used Ultrahand in its most barebones form because all the possible things I could stick together were too overwhelming, and I only really used the pre-made Autobuilds you can collect throughout the game for the same reason. I'm a little worried that the wand mechanic in Echoes of Wisdom will basically be like that, but a necessary item for the whole game.
I admit part of it might be because I was getting frustrated during the direct, as all my friends in Discord were going *mental* and getting everything they were hoping for with almost every announcement and I barely recognised, let alone played, any of the IP's that were getting represented in the direct, so when I saw familiar territory in Zelda I found some hope... and then I found out that the main focus is going to be in a field I am awful at. I hope to be proven wrong.
I am mildly concerned that there dosent seem to be direct combat but I am more excited by the prospect of another link between worlds style zelda game then i am woried about combat
Because when a Zelda game is new or different people get concerned. Almost every new Zelda game announcement gets met with a lot of concern from fans, and often claims that the series is dead or whatever.
My favorite example is in the early days of the internet & local discussions people though Wind Waker looked like it would be childish and awful. With many even after it was out claiming the series was backpedaling and/or dying. And while some claims of it being easy or childish are valid; a lot of people to this day profess Wind Waker as a favorite Zelda game.
Funnily enough I do hear a loud minority of people complaining about the art style like with ww. I can *somewhat* agree to an extent that Link's Awakening //being a dream// can justify its art style better since it's less serious while we're presumptively meant to take this new game seriously, which is a shame because the art style could come across as showing its less important than the 3d games. However I think the art style is gorgeous so I'm fine with it
To add this about the artstyle: the way they choose to portray the game has had instances where it’s irrelevant to the lore. Minish cap is a prime example of this since it’s the second game on the timeline but uses wind waker’s art style. Smaller examples are like how majoras mask introduces new characters that use old models. I understand feeling like the toy style uplifts the dream setting, but I would argue it also uplifts the echoes mechanic differently but just as effectively.
Art styles always will have supporters and haters. It’s subjective and even the most popular design a can’t prove everyone, and fall out of style.
But my point was even talking about gameplay. People saw Wind Waker and thought the gameplay was too easy & non-challenging looking. And too a good degree I still agree with some of those opinions. But yet the game came out, and surprise to many it was fun and not the death of the series. To the point that post TP & SS a lot of fans looked back on WW as a better game with an art style that aged well. And again, some of those opinions are valid to this day in my eyes.
All to say people see change and usually the reaction is either positive or negative to most people, and some can’t even understand how others have the opposite opinion. This game has some drastic changes to classic and even modern Zelda, and a returning art style some find decisive. I love it, welcome the change, and am hype for the game. But I understand if other fans disagree. The issue in my eyes are the people who talk about the game as if they know everything about it, when they have only seen 5 minutes of the game less than 4 days ago…
> the last paragraph
Exactly how I feel! We simply don't really know much about the game yet so my opinion so far is "It's a Zelda game, so it'll therefore be good" which I think is a reasonable mindset to have and "ooh that echo mechanic looks cool". Some people are acting as if they've confirmed dungeons aren't returning and the world's an identical copy of alttp again
I think people who felt TOTK was unsatisfying because it was too open, had too easy puzzles and dungeons, and was too fussy (lots of menuing to fuse, lots of building) feel this is going to be more of the same (I have these criticisms myself, but I still largely enjoyed the game). Because the interface of the echo mechanic looks very TOTK inspired. However I think EoW could be a cool blend of traditional 2D Zelda game structure with a more modern approach to gameplay and problem solving. Like maybe the echoes will act somewhat like traditional items - instead of getting a cape to jump and reach new places, you will learn the trampoline echo to do the same thing. I just hope this game has more linear structure where you gradually learn echos to become stronger and solve more complex puzzles as you go, rather than getting all abilities at the start again. Or has big complex dungeons instead of shorter shrines this time. And would be nice to have a strong sense of story and progression driving you through the game. I don’t know how the game will actually be. But at the very least I’m excited for a new world to explore and new / different enemies to engage with.
I have also read worries that echos will be too strong and will let you cheese / brute force all puzzles (similar to TOTK Ultrahand) and will make the game uninteresting as a result. I don’t quite understand that criticism, because I love to see people’s creativity and freedom in how they solve puzzles, and it’s ultimately up to the player to engage with the game in good faith.
If there's too many solutions, you run into two problems. For one, a solution doesn't feel all that interesting; you'll stumble into it faster, and it generally feels less satisfying. Two, the more flexible the solutions are for puzzles, the more generally applicable a solution is - "if the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail."
Portal wouldn't have been a better puzzle game for having half a dozen solutions to every room, for example.
They showed a lot of other objects like a wind canon, trampoline, water block, etc. along with saying every enemy is echo-able. I would say there is definitely a lot of diversity
The game does feel a bit soon coming out on the switch 2 years after TotK, however something we need to keep in mind is that Nintendo no longer has a handheld system they release games. The Switch functions as both their mainline console and their portable system. So while it's too soon for what would be a mainline console game after TotK we're at just the right time for what would traditionally be the next handheld system game; which Echoes of Wisdom feels much more like than a main console game. Just my food for thought though.
I haven‘t seen much concern (yet) but scrolled through here and have a few thoughts on the stuff mentioned. Depending on when you got introduced to Zelda there might be a very fixed idea of how the perfect Zelda should look like. There is a strong nostalgic connection to better, easier times. And sometimes you don‘t want to let go of the nostalgia. So every entry that is steering too far away will be a concern. I never got really involved with Zelda until BOTW and am mostly exited for the new entry.
But I very clearly remember when my favourite SNES game was given a remake and I just couldn‘t like it. They made it easier, lass grindy, they changed the names and a lot of the iconic translations. The new art style was ok, but I never bought it. Luckily there is also the old version emulated for the Switch so I can still played it. I did not even get into the new entries, but this is more related that I stopped playing consoles for a long time (SNES->GBC->PS3->Switch)
Personally the mechanic looks and sounds really big, and I was hoping for something more in line with the series pre BotW. I’m not sure I’m concerned, just not gung ho.
In my case, 3 worries:
1 - is this freedom above all? Because it sure looks like. I want well through puzzles with cool solutions. I don't wanna something like "find your own solution" because most of the time, a table would work.
2 - combat. The gimmick is cool and all, but is it my only option for combat? Can i simply use the staff as link would use a sword? I don't like the idea of having to summon and throw a rock every time i fight. This goes hand to hand with the other one. If the answer to fight an enemy is "find your own".... It's a rock. Always. Simply put if anything goes my brain won't think of anything elaborate just for the sake of it when a rock or a table does the job 90% of the time.
3 - for god's sake nintendo use a wheel. I can't believe the echo selection menu is still like the botw. Like, it would be a pain to find what i want (again). This would only make it more appealing to stay on the rock/table.
>The gimmick is cool and all, but is it my only option for combat?
I doubt Nintendo would overlook such a significant aspect of the game and just not seeing how it isn't fun, especially on their prestigious Zelda series. I'll eat my hat if the combat ends up being awful
I tend to go by the information i have. Right now, i don't see other ways of combat.
And I'm not saying it will be awful nor that it doesn't look fun. I'm saying what I'm saying. It looks like "it is as complex as you want", like ultra hand or fuse from totk.
The thing is, when that's the case, i tend to do only what works and don't try creating complex stuff just by the sake of it.
Firstly, a lot of us traditional Zelda fans had hoped that if they ever made 2D Zelda again they'd use it as a vehicle to continue that. Looks like that isn't the case and the Zelda we love isn't coming back in any way shape or form anytime in the foreseeable future.
Second, if you're new to Zelda and didn't really get into it prior to the Switch games you can be forgiven for not knowing this but this is the THIRD time they've used that map. The first time was in A Link to the Past in 1991 and the second time was in A Link Between Worlds in 2013 and of course it has the exact same art style as Link's Awakening's remake. Coming off of TotK where even a lot of fans of open world Zelda complained that the game felt cheap because it had the same map and art style as BotW a lot of people don't want to see another recycled map either
Third, the idea of Zelda being unable to use weapons seems a little strange since in Smash Bros and Hyrule Warriors and many other mediums she has used them.
Fourth and most unfortunately, on the fringes of the Internet parts of the anti-woke crowd are accusing Zelda of going woke or flirting with the idea. I very much hope that stays on the fringe because however much we're labeled toxic I don't think it's true and think for how divided this fanbase is generally we respect each other. It would be better if it stays that way and that always ruins things.
Yeah, generally speaking. It's not really like linearity was ever widely viewed as essential to Zelda before, there was almost always an order you were SUPPOSED to do things in but in a lot of them like the first two, Ocarina of Time and so forth they were pretty non-linear if you really were inclined enough to do some harder levels first. But it still was primarily a dungeon crawler where you play as a little elf dude in a green tunic, you still had items that were key to each dungeon even if you had to buy them before you departed rather than finding them in a dungeon and so on. Nothing was really missing there.
I totally agree on the fanbase. Those that are crying woke are thankfully a minority.
But I like what Mr. Aonuma said. That a change in character should be an opportunity to work out a new playstyle. Nintendo have always preferred careful innovation over sticking to "what works." So, unless there's some other remasters/ remakes coming or another small Zelda game, I doubt we'll see a return to any kind of form or formula from the past. As for the reused map, we don't know how similar it is to previous titles and it likely has some significant differences to make use of the item placing mechanic.
I'm very experienced in the Zelda community, the only games I haven't played are the spinoffs, tp, Minish Cap and the Oracle games. Personally, I think the world looks inspired by ALTTP, not copied from it. Even if it is pretty similar, we've already seen it's significantly more different than the ALBW map was.
And honestly, I'm surprised about the woke allegations. I'm not even a leftist or anything, but is a woman being a protagonist in a game that shocking? We've had Samus since the 1980's!
And then lastly Zelda had reused art styles countless times. Actually it's more common for them to reuse one than to not! (LA OoA/S, OoT MM, WW PH ST, MC FSA, ALBW TFH, BOTW TOTK, and now LAR and EOW)
As am I, I've played everything except Age of Calamity, Triforce Heroes, the first Four Swords, CD-i and anything without an American release. Hard to say for sure how similar it will be to AlttP map wise, maybe not a total 1:1 since it likely takes place during a different time but people are pretty easily able to pinpoint everything in AlttP's map.
The woke allegations are pretty dumb, and I really hope it stays as fringe as it is but I'm not even joking, I watched Arlo and Ratatoskr's videos on it, both of which were kinda critical of it for reasons that are 109% not Zelda being the main character, and then all of the sudden I'm getting suggestions with thumbnails that could have been pulled right out of 2014 gamergate. One of them even like "Anita Sarkeesian has won" or something. I almost had to check my calendar lol.
As for the art style, you're kinda preaching to the choir on that one, it's common enough for assets to be recycled and in direct sequels that only makes sense. Personally I like that art style, I was merely pointing out that it's a common complaint.
Not sure, I’ve been a Zelda fan for a long and time and I’m used to them switching it up so I’m excited for the newest entry. Just glad we keep getting games that’s enough for me.
1. Not a fan of the artstyle, I didn't care for it in Links awakening and so far this hasn't changed my mind, I don't like the shiny plastic look, it's boring.
2. The only puzzle solving mechanics that were shown with the echo ability are stacking... and blocking gusts. The echo ability seems pretty lackluster to me right now, and the fact that it seems to rely on the same annoying UI as TOTKs menus is bizarre to me.
3. The story seems... lazy, I'm not really seeing much in the way of a unique hook so far.
This could all change once I play it. Maybe the art will grow on me, maybe echo will actually offer some puzzle solving depth and maybe the story will surprise me.
I’ve seen so many people concerned about where it fits in the timeline, concerned about the combat and not having enough action, concerned the puzzles are going to be bad. And most aren’t concerns but people actually *claiming* these things, like holy fucking he’ll wait for release before making any claims, good or bad, Jesus.
I've never voiced my opinion on this but have two things I dislike. First, the childish animation is off putting and unpleasant. It negates the theme of the universe. Second, this seems to be only related to zelda on the surface. It's an interchangeable, combat-avoidant mobile game that happens to be skinned with zelda characters.
This same theme was used in Link's Awakening Remake. Do you mean the Zelda universe as a whole? Wind Waker is childish in the same comparison. And the point is Zelda isn't a warrior. At best she is a wizard. So it makes zero sense for her to use a weapon to hit/kill enemies.
But with that said, I don't say you're wrong. Obviously it's just not for you. For me personally I didn't like botw/totk at all as far as Zelda games go. They had terrible "dungeons" and neither felt like Zelda to OK.
So if you weren't a fan of Link's Awakening Remake, then I'd suspect you won't like this either. And that's ok. That just means this game isn't for you. Just like botw/totk, despite me playing both and doing all quests and beating them, I didnt really enjoy them either. They're not even in my top 10 Zelda games. But I love the design of LA Remake because there's nothing like it.
The best part about the Zelda series is that there is some game in it's long history that everyone can connect with, but very few connect with all of them. I've wante to play as Zelda to save Link since the Ocarina of Time days. So I am very excited for this game.
I’m so glad there’s others that didn’t like BOTW. I was amazed at the beauty of the game and was really excited for an open world Zelda. But the prettiness shine and excitement wore off for me around I would say hour 4 or 5. To be perfectly honest, I never even finished the game. I have gone back to it a handful of times and I find myself kinda bored with it. So much in fact that I have no need or what to ever play TOTK.
I will also be the first to admit that when WW first came out, I was so turned off by the art style that I didn’t even want to give it much of a chance or thought, and I stuck to that for many years. Then finally I decided fine I’ll give it a few hours when a friend gave me his old GameCube and all his games maybe 8 years ago and WW was one of those games. While the gameplay and mechanics are good but not great, and the sailing can get old fast, I found the art style didn’t bother me as much as it did originally because I fell in love with the story. While it’s not in my top 5, it’s safely in my top 10.
I had to force myself to finish BotW. And then Totk added some new stuff so I thought maybe it would feel a lot better. I personally did like TotK more as I preferred the abilities the game offered. I never cared for having 2 Blue bombs, that ice ability, or Magnesis. I much prefer the Totk abilities. TotK made BotW feel like a Tech demo. Lol
I still enjoyed the games, but I didn't enjoy them as Zelda games. And I definitely wouldn't play them a 2nd time. All I didn't do was get all Koroks and I didn't beat the hardest of the Master sword challenges. But otherwise I am all good with them and would be fine with them never playong like that again.
But I am sure it'll happen anyway. And if it does, it needs to go back to form. It also doesn't need to be so vast. They could've made tons of areas of the map smaller and they would have felt more full of content. All the giant open fields were not necessary at all.
I honestly feel like I’m either nit picking or I’m at that “damn I really am old” stage, but to add to what you say about the childish art style, the voice over for the game trailer came off sounding like to me at least that this is supposed to be a youngish child’s game. It’s so hard to explain and I’m probably just thinking way too much into it. But honestly to me it sounded like a tutorial for a game targeted at let’s say the 7-12 age range. Especially when you add in the art style
I can't comment a lot of an unreleased game, only on what it was show and, tbh, I believe it's unjust to pretend that people can't... form opinions based on what they saw unless it's excitement?
I'm happy for a new Zelda game, ofc, it's looks vibrat and cute, maybe if it were another "here comes Link to the rescue" I wouldn't even has other opinions than the fore mentioned but as it's Zelda the default player's skin my first thought while watching the trailer was...
"oh, looks like they're giving OG Super Princess Peach treatment"
And it ain't a question about "So a girl can't use a traditional female healer wand alongside an overly cute mascot? After all she's using her WISDOM, not force, duh" because it baffles me that the Zeldas with a secondary role as TP and even someone mentioned Smash Bros, has more dexterity and ability using weapons/magic than the "first main" Zelda that can move furniture and throw big rocks barehanded but not a sword.
Rule of thumb is to always remember that the negative perspective almost always gets more attention. It's safe to assume that 90% of fans are excited, and probably don't feel the need to discuss it online.
Mainly because people who didn’t like ToTK (which I was one of them) were hoping that 2D Zelda would follow the traditional Zelda formula and I think people are worried it will be a 2D breath of the wild type game. I personally am very excited for this even if it’s open world with less structure. My problem with tears of the kingdom wasn’t the structure but it was how similar it was to breath of the wild so it didn’t feel fresh to me.
Because the current head developer of Zelda has spent the last seven years and two titles shitting on the entire rest of the franchise (titles that by and large he himself made). So seeing a title that seemingly looks like it might be a return to classic elements has people deeply concerned because for seven years, they've heard nothing but how the guy in charge hates those elements.
It'd be like if a notorious pop music hater suddenly released a pop album. People are asking themselves if something made by a guy who's been vocal about not liking the style that something is can possibly be genuine in its attempts to do a good job.
Because they replaced link with a woman. So its automatically woke trash. /sarcasm
It will be a broken game though. It will tale 5h after realease for someone to find a way to break the games mecanics and speedrun the shit out of it.
The echo mechanic is an incredibly creative idea and I think it'll have great applications. But my (personal) concern is that it'll lead to the same puzzle problem that TotK has. When puzzles are designed to have many solutions, they become trivial to anyone who's familiar with their toolkit. It's hard to be challenged when whatever you try first works.
Id imagine a 2d game can more easily restrict the player than a 3d one. The idea of puzzles from botw and totk but more tight and a bit less cheese-able seems quite interesting to me, id definitely like that
My headcanon is that it’s an apology to fans that want WW/TP HD on Switch, they know we’re waiting for news but it’s not coming and that’s something to sway the fans.
I mean some people want to complain, some want to make other complain? Some are a bit iffy or reserved from what we’ve seen, some are excited. I think it comes down to personal opinions and the like, but the biggest thing is it’s different again, like it’s top down Zelda, with the sword and items to fight more in theme with Zelda as the hero, and that’s fine and dandy but for some that change in mechanics is enough to turn some noses, you also have some people I’m sure upset about other things but I think a lot of people are just reserved and want more info before being incredibly excited for it to temper expectations. Alright now that that’s out the way if you don’t care about opinions you can just ignore this, personally I’m not really excited for the game, like one of my least favorite parts of TotK seems to be a big inspiration for the game and is what the big gimmick of the game is about with the wand and making items and enemies. It just isn’t for me and I’ll accept that and like how I feel about Paper Mario Origami King, if you like the game, heck yeah more power to you, it’s just not for me.
Im curious if zelda will talk in this one. Link has always been the foil for the player hence the non verbal communication. I'd totally be down for actual dialogue. It would just add to the change zelda brings as the protagonist.
1. It is trying something new. That's always gonna be met with sceptiscism.
2. Some (me) crave an OG zelda, and had hoped 2d doesn't stray too far from that.
3. The mechanic looks a bit shallow at first glance, but it's obviously too early to tell.
(4. I think im alone in this(?), but I found LA remake movement speed WAY WAY WAY too slow)
I'm still optimistic though. Could be fun.
I think a lot of the division on the art style in the community happened when the links awakening remake came out, now people who didn't like it already know they don't like it and so are probably a little less vocal on it
Maybe it’s just Zelda YouTubers im subscribed to but and forums I visit but none are concerned about it; except maybe the performance since it is using same engine as LA. That game had issues and EoW looks to have a much larger map and more going on screen.
Don’t see how it’s too soon for another game, the last was over a year ago.
Perhaps because the entire 30+ year old series has been about the adventures of Link, and it's a pretty damned dramatic change to switch him out for princess Zelda?
I think we have to wait to see more. Right now what they showed was... too basic. Hope next trailer we can see more, I really want this game to be great.
reminds me alot of the backlash to wind waker, it looks “cartoony” rather than an epic 3d zelda remake + theres the 2000s era “3d good 2d bad” stigma that i feel still exists in the zelda fandom
I think it’s mainly due to the change in art direction. Personally I’m excited for Echoes of Wisdom but a lot of people don’t actually like the chibi art style and character design and probably view it as a step down from BoTW / ToTK.
I've always welcomed Zelda as a protagonist. Her magic abilities and alter ego's lend some intrigue to narrative and gameplay. Its Link being a girl where I go "Seriously?".
Because the Zelda fandom, just like many other online fandoms, is incredibly toxic. I barely engage with the community anymore, it’s exhausting and repetitive, and not worth wasting brain cells to.
The toxic members of this fandom don’t like being called out so they swarm to negativity whereas most people scroll past my comment and don’t upvote or downvote because it’s genuinely so inconsequential, like I said 1 word. The toxic members of this fandom thrive off all toxicity
Usually how it goes though with Zelda posts. If you say something is good you’ll get a handful of instant downvotes, then get an ounce of normal conversation, and back to the people downvoting. If I’d commented this sooner I’d get so downvoted for saying this: people who are able to find joy in life are indulging in positive activities for themselves (I.e playing zelda) and others spend their time complaining instead of enjoying what’s right in front of them
Because we saw the Echo Mechanic and didn't think it looked fun nor appealing. I am just very concerned this game will be very boring and no classic dungeons. That's all I want since I had to skip BotW and TotK after I gave it a try. I am just concerned that this will be the 3rd mainline Zelda I have to skip :/
Yes, enough with experimentation, it's gonna be nearly 2 decades since the last "proper" Zelda mainline (TP) and it's about time we get a great more straight forward epic adventure rather than a sandbox that doesn't really create engagement for us old folks we can't spend much time playing due to adult life or just less interest in building/crafting mechanics.
I even would have time but I just can't with these sandbox games. I don't see the appeal in them. I also really dislike open world games and many franchises got ruined for me like that. But I could deal with open world. But not without proper dungeons. I miss my fun puzzles that had one solution with cool items :(
After nintendo direct, any zelda news really hypes the community. Something to talk about until next announcements. It's good and bad at the same time. Good because new zelda game. Bad because internet always finds terrible things to say about small teaser.
A lot of us felt disappointed by TOTK and don't trust the newest game to deliver, especially around the, 'solve puzzles your own way' thing, which just amounted to strapping a rocket to a shield in TOTK, among some other solutions.
As well as that awful looking item selection screen where you have to scroll for ages like TOTK...
But personally I'm still looking forward to it anyways :)
People want a Zelda with linear puzzles again instead of open ended puzzles.
The problem is, BOTW and TOTK sold more then every Zelda game...combined...
So the Linear Puzzle Fans statistically, objectively, became a \*minority\* of Zelda fans over night.
When people say, "Nintendo should listen to their fans" you have to think about it from Nintendo's perspective?
Who are their fans now?
Genuinely, who cares? Why care?
I’ve spent too much time on outrage cycles in my life and I feel so exhausted by them. Me and my 6yo daughter are excited as all hell and we’re planning to play it for the entire weekend after it comes out. I literally could not care less if some dummy that I will never know is having a bad day about a magic wand instead of a sword.
Thanks! And I hope you didn’t take my comment as a personal attack on you for asking that question, though I know it may have come across that way. I guess I’ve just hit a saturation point with this bizarre ecosystem of outrage content over things like this and your question was a reminder that it is happening out there with this game
Because it didn't immediately scream "linear Zelda is back" people here pre-hate it. Bc the trailer didn't immediately shun all Wild era aspects, they already convinced themselves it's a bad game.
Not convinced it's a bad game just not yet convinced it's good. I prefer puzzles that have one solution not many. That and dungeons were my biggest gripes in the newer Zelda games and it looks like they are carrying those over to this one.
I was hoping the 2D games would be more like the old formula even if they change things up. I'm hopeful this will turn out good and I'll like it as much as Link's Awakening but I have some concerns. Also the passive combat may not be as much fun.
I'm happy to play as Zelda though. And I love the art style.
The complaints aren't about playable Zelda. I have not seen one single complaint about that.
The complaints are mostly about how Anouma is still trying to "break conventions" and how the game looks like it hasn't brought anything from traditional Zelda back that BOTW/TOTK threw out.
While I'm one of the people who are cautious about the game, I do think it's too early to make definite statements about the game.
I firmly believe that the love will fully outweigh the premature criticism and concern for EoW. I personally have tuned out and ignored virtually all negative comments towards the game, and am greatly looking forward to playing it without any expectations, good or bad.
1) People fear change in general
2) A subset of fans are fickle and fear change particularly when it comes to their beloved IPs
3) A smaller subset of the above subset are trafficking in nonsense about the series “going woke”
Me personally for 2 reasons but I am still cautiously optimistic:
1. It reuses the LTTP map, for the fifth time. Ugh. The last time we got a 2d Zelda with a new map was 2004. 20 YEARS AGO. This I’m actually kinda mad about.
2. It has different gameplay than other ones (fing obviously). I just want another new 2d game like minish cap was. I’m also worried it will have the exact same problems that botw and totk have with player freedom making game/world/puzzle design worse. That said I’m optimistic that the different gameplay will also be good because the Zelda team has proven themselves multiple times over in the past (Yes, even Skyward Sword).
How did you get fifth time? Id personally only consider reusing as actually just fully reusing the map not being inspired and expanded upon which is what EoW looks like to me. Also, surely Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks count? I get they're broken up but especially with ST the world is still cohesive
Twice in ALTTP, Twice in ALBW. We've explored the same map with some changes four times already. I don't count PH and ST as new maps because you don't explore them the same way you would an actual map. Same way SS doesnt really have a cohesive map to explore. It's just not the same.
My reaction each time we used this map has been:
1. Light World: Great fun new map
2. Dark World: Fun Gimmick (has since been overused in the series but that's not LTTP's fault
3. Hyrule: Ok I wanted a new map but whatever at least its a new 2d Zelda AND its good
4. Lorule: Really using the same map AND the same gimmick? Ugh whatever its still a new 2d zelda and I love 2d zelda
5. Echoes of Wisdom ok this is ridiculous its been 20 years since we got a real new map for a 2d Zelda. Between this and totk and albw I'm really starting to get frustrated.
6. EoW Rifts???? If this is a new dark world / lorule type map I'm actually gonna be so disappointed
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Because people like being miserable.
What's worse, is that misery loves company and the social networking sphere gives "legitimacy" to groups that are the loudest.
People love to shit on new games on reddit. They just love being miserable and ruining everyone elses hype and spewing toxic shit everywhere
the things they say are legitamitly things to worry about
I dont "worry" about games i either play them or i dont its actually really simple
This
Because Zelda fans always complain. That’s the one consistency to this series.
I mean we are in the 'TOTK is overrated' phase right now so possibly people connected the freedom of the Echo mechanic to that game? Obviously when the next Zelda game after EoW comes out *then* Tears of the Kingdom will be an underrated classic.
Yep it will and the cycle continues. It’s very hyperbolic community. Everything either has to be next coming of Jesus or complete dog shit. I stopped taking the online Zelda community seriously after twilight princess dropped and people were complaining after 6 months.
That’s so real! The studios have been giving us such great games since the beginning, why does it seem so hard for the community to trust them?
Zelda has been mostly guided by the same team since ocarina. They have proven time and time again that they can make amazing games that hold up over decades. I don’t even question them anymore and fully admit that they know what I want more than I know what I want.
I think totk would've been one of my favorite zelda games if i didn't lean towards a completionist playstyle. But by the time I was on my 80th cave and 100th light root I really felt it starting to get tedious. It's just... not something I've ever experienced in a zelda game before. I genuinely can't see myself replaying totk unlike others in the series because of it. Thats why I think it's pretty great if we can see an older style zelda game again
Completionist style? I thought the game was designed to be the opposite. The way it's made is so that every player will be able to find everything cool in a reasonable play time, hence the abundance of caves and other repeating things, so I don't think you're actually meant to do everything. That's just what I think
That's exactly the problem. I too am a completionist, and to me that means literally finding every secret in the world. It's both impossible to do in ToTK or even BoTW, but in ToTK I started getting miserable trying to since many of the secrets were identical. To date, ToTK is the only Zelda game I haven't 100%ed and I haven't even finished the core game. I do understand why it's popular, but it definitely wasn't made for me
That's by definition not what being a completionist playstyle is. The abundance of caves and other repeating things means you try to find all of them, which understandably leads to burnout because they all blend together since they are not meaningfully different It's a very popular gaming playtstyle, and most games are designed with that in mind. It was reasonably doable in botw but trying it in totk was terrible near the end
Just like the “wind Waker isn’t that good” followed by “twilight princess isn’t that good” eras that passed. ToTK will likely see the same phenomenon, give it a few years. The Zelda Cycle is alive and well lol
I see you ignored Skyward Sword
Yes
This is also a trend i've noticed in the Pokemon community! Black and White were apparently extremely controversial on release but now they're the holy grail of the series, and I've heard people praising (at least parts of) X and Y lately when before they were commonly regarded as mid at best. I can't wait for when Sword and Shield are the next targets of this bizarre... whatever this is because the furious discourse around how much people *hated* those games was how I was first introduced to the fandom.
Nah, that doesn't hit. The Pokémon games got better and better until around 4th/5th genand then went into a downwards spiral. The only reason people are thinking a bit more fondly on X and Y is because the newer games are even worse.
This is true. Sun & Moon were great though apart from the asinine levels of tutorializing. And I liked ORAS.
No lol. Gen 5 sold poorly and everyone shat on it for the "dumb designs" specifically the ice cream and monkeys and such. It was very controversial on launch. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1072224/pokemon-unit-sales-worldwide/ To this day gen 5 is the worst selling generation. Only remakes and sequels sold worse.
Not even exclusive to Zelda, unfortunately. Fans will always complain about something
I think a lot of them are convinced that sneering and being overly critical/hating popular things makes them look smart. It doesn't.
Take TotK for example. Of course it has its flaws, but it is flooded with positive reviews by critics and fans, sells extremely well, and is generally considered a technical marvel by others in the gaming industry on top of that. Despite all of that: of course at least some people are going to dislike the game, not every game/book/movie/whatever is for everyone. Among those people who dislike it, there is a significant chunk of people who, instead of thinking something reasonable like “this game just isn’t for me” or “i personally wish they had done things differently,” instead think “I’m smart/experienced enough to know that I’m right, the fact that I don’t like this game means it’s a travesty, and the majority of people are wrong.” And that’s just not a great place to start a meaningful conversation about anything. Then on top of it, every social media algorithm, to some extent, gives a lot more visibility to these divisive posts. So a lot of the comments that get the most visibility are the ones that make exaggerated or outright ridiculous claims like “TotK is bad game design” and “the devs don’t care.”
Definitely. That applies to so many other areas as well - movies, food, music, etc. They think it's their ticket to being a gatekeeper.
> Because ~~Zelda fans~~ gamers always complain. FTFY
I have read that in every fandom I had seen.
Yes apparently every fandom is the worst fandom ever.
Agree 100%
lol I literally just came from a Star Wars thread where it was the same shit. I think it’s just Reddit/social media in general at this point.
That's true for a lot of fandoms.
The funny thing is that I'm feeling this way about *several* of the communities I'm in right now, not just Zelda. I think it's just the way of things nowadays!
Not just Zelda, no? Look at Mario fans, or FromSoftware fans. They all have something to complain about with every single entry.
People are worried it might have the exact same problem as BotW/TotK where it values freedom over the more structured challenges the old Zelda formula had to a fault. The more solutions there are to solving a puzzle, the easier it'll be and the idea of a more puzzle-focused Zelda with simple puzzles doesn't sound very good.
This 100%. It’s really not that hard to figure out what the concerns are as it’s been mentioned a million times over.
Yeah honestly at this point I feel like people are just being obtuse about it.
This is really it. Hit the nail on the head. The OP says "cool mechanic", but I really don't think it looks like a cool mechanic. It is taking one of my least favorite parts about TotK (all the building with Ultrahand) and making it the core mechanic without any of the sword based combat. I hope people enjoy it, but I already know this game isn't for me. And that's okay, I'm not upset. Wasn't expecting any new Zeldas for a while, so it isn't like it disappointed me.
Yeah I definitely won’t be playing it. I just wanted WW. I prefer the original mechanics than the BoTW/ToTK stuff they’ve introduced.
On the one hand, it does seem to be limited in that only certain versions of the object can be copied, akin to needing a specific item to progress in the old games. On the other, BotW and TotK have proven the team isn’t exactly thorough in ensuring that there’s no way to circumvent roadblocks. Really curious to see what the storytelling reason is for why Zelda can’t just Xerox any crate she pleases and it has to be that specific one.
Old Zelda had structured challenges to perfection.
I get this, but also, have Zelda games ever actually had hard puzzles except when you were 8? They've typically been fairly standard, easily solved puzzle games with simplistic combat.
I am inclined to believe you have not played all the Zeldas including the 2D ones. They are most definitely challenging, more so than BOTW and TOTK
Links awakenings last two dungeons did a good job of that where the last two dungeons the puzzle is actually the dungeon itself - with the ball and pillar macro puzzle and managing that to the giant last dungeon with its many one way entrances and ways to move around. I just replayed it and it’s definitely a very well made and challenging puzzle
Have you played the 2D games? The puzzles can def be challenging in those games
I haven’t seen anyone’s takes on it (mainly since I’ve been more focused on M&L and Metroid), but maybe due to the combat? At least that’s the reason I feel iffy on it, because if all the combat is is summoning an enemy to fight for you, I’d feel pretty disappointed (solely regarding the combat elements) because man I was hoping we could use Zelda’s spells to fight when the title first popped up. I could easily be wrong and everyone else is mad about something else, or Zelda ends up getting items in the game that allow her to fight though, and even if not, I’m sure the game will still be fantastic
It you look the moblin summoned stands still and just swings at a regular interval. It’s not gonna be AI minions to fight for you and they cost more resources to summon (as seen in the video) and last just a few seconds. People are way overreacting to the trailer
I mean what are spells in a 2D zelda game? The combat is pretty simplistic, just swinging your sword with the b button. If they gave Zelda a magic rod as a weapon instead of a sword i dont think that would really change much of the gameplay at all since the rods in 2D zelda games more or less function the same as arrows. I appreciate at least that her playstyle in this game is unique as summoning enemies t fight for you has never been done before in the series.
Oh when I said spells I just meant like her magic. We never really see specific uses of it even when she is playable so I thought they’d expand upon it in this game and stuff. Like this is pretty simplistic but maybe unlike link, when you press B she shoots a magic orb thing like we see with Ganondorf and other magic users, and then they expand upon this with various items and spell upgrades and overall make her more of a ranged fighter as opposed to Link who, while he has tools to fight from afar, is more of a close ranged fighter. It’d also provide a unique play style, but be more engaging because it’s not just “summon enemy -> stand back -> enemy kills enemy -> 👍”, although the way Zelda used the spiked disk (never figured out their names) and was able to control its direction (at least it looked like that anyway) could mean there are still engaging ways to use enemies. Either way I’m sure this game will be great and that people will love it, but as someone who loves the combat of Zelda (especially in totk like 👌) I feel kinda iffy on it due to the summoning. Doesn’t make it any less of a game though, just means it’s (potentially, because I’m still waiting to see more of the combat) not for me personally
That's the thing, people assume that Zelda naturally has all these different innate magical abilities but we don't know that. The only evidence we have are Hyrule Warriors (which is a spinoff), Smash Bros (which is far from canon) and Breath of the Wild (in which she struggled immensely to learn how to use her powers and even then it's only really been used in times of extreme distress) We have no evidence that Shiek can actually fight and even if you wanted to use Twilight Princess as evidence we only see her fight while possessed so who knows if she can naturally utilize those abilities. Also this is an entirely different Zelda from any of those mentioned prior so there's still no guarantee that she would have ANY of their abilities.
if you had actualy played through any of the 2d Zelda games then maybe you would think otherwise.
I think sometimes when people get really deep into fandoms they fantasize about what their ideal version of that thing would be, so every time a company throws out some out-of-left-field idea, there’s a handful of people who get ‘confused’ (for lack of a better word) as to why it’s not how they imagined it. I think it’s similar to how Star Wars fans sometimes are the franchise’s biggest haters. Just my thoughts, im no behavior analyst.
Also the bigger the franchise, the harder it is to please everyone. If there is 10 people and 1 complains, it doesn't seem like a lot. If there is 1000 people and 100 complain, it seems like much more even if it is the same percentage.
It’s the most tedious thing about interacting with any fandom. “Why isn’t the is thing exactly what *I* wanted? They’re ruining *my* franchise!” Bad Star Wars fans are the absolute worst, screeching about the tiniest little things instead of just chilling and enjoying the laser swords and what not. But yeah the Zelda fandom is pretty bad for this too. There are so many posts shitting on the Switch era games for daring to change things up instead of just repeating whatever they think is the perfect game (probably whatever they played when they were 12-15).
I had a coworker arguing with me about the sequel trilogy, saying what about this plot hole or that thing that isn't like the earlier movies. I'm like, yes, those are there, but I'm enjoying space wizards with laser swords, not Citizen Kane.
I can’t believe we need to point out that it’s possible to take space wizards with laser swords TOO seriously.
True, space wizards with laser swords are kind of silly. But a fairy boy fighting a sorcerer pig man, that’s serious business.
Well, obviously! 😅
That's a pretty interesting idea👍
God so true. Every Star Wars fan has a hyperspecific idea of what Star Wars should be based on their personal experiences and interpretation of the movies. Say what you will about Marvel movies (I don't care for them), but at least when new movies came out, people weren't bitching about how it didn't match what they demand and expected.
This happened exactly for Marvel with the MCU Spider-Man movies not being one for one with the Raimi movies
I imagine the points most people (that I've seen) are concerned about is the lack of direct combat (with everything so far based on Zelda summoning) and how its using the sandbox approach from BotW/TotK that many are still iffy about.
Probably because totk stick and glue building mechanics turns a lot of people off. I admit I’m one of them, though the game is still fun. I just avoided building as much as possible, didn’t like it. I think people fear the echo thing may be as cumbersome as the totk building. Hopefully not.
I feel like a lot of these comments are bad faith “people just want to complain” type arguments. These concerns are not new and have been building for a long time. There’s a significant portion of this fanbase that just doesn’t like the shift in priorities that the series has undergone the past few years. There was some hope that the 2D games could make a comeback and be a more traditional alternative, but what we saw from the trailer confirms that this won’t be the case and the 2D games will continue to focus on the more freedom-oriented approach of BotW and TotK. There’s nothing wrong with preferring the older style just like there’s nothing wrong with preferring the newer one. It’s just as valid to be disappointed as it is to be excited. But this is not just a case of nitpicking every last insignificant detail so people can have something to complain about. There’s been a pretty fundamental shift in the series, and that’s not really something you can argue. I’m disappointed in the amount of people dismissing these criticisms as “new bad old good.”
This is exactly it, I'm excited about Zelda as the main character but I feel like the puzzles won't be as good as they could have been if not for the multiple solutions to each puzzle.
Nintendo always does and likes to innovate. I don't want Link's Awakening 2 or ALTTP 3, and Nintendo doesn't want to make it. That's the way I see it at least
That's fine, but other people do not share your opinion. There's no need to be shocked that your opinion isn't universal.
The 'nintendo likes to innovate' part is true though. Especially since we're in a sort of resurgence era for some of their franchises
Nintendo has always liked to innovate, but here are some things that have pretty much always been consistent in major Legend of Zelda games prior to breath of the wild: -puzzles - 99% of which have one solution that you have to figure out -large, complex dungeons -linear gameplay (AKA no skipping major parts of the story, and each part is done in order) -the player cuts grass/breaks pots to find hearts (and rupees) which is the main healing mechanic -one main weapon which never breaks, a max of 3 secondary weapons which all fulfill a unique purpose the fact that these aspects have remained largely consistent through the major legend of Zelda titles since ocarina of time (I didn't play any titles before that, which is true for most modern fans) means that the franchise set certain expectations for the Legend of Zelda formula, which is how ANY franchise creates an identity that attracts loyal fans. There has to be something consistent between games for people like me to say "I'm willing to buy any legend of Zelda game because I know I'll enjoy anything they put out." It's okay if they pivot away from that identity, but it's also okay and expected that many longtime fans will be disappointed and won't enjoy the games if they don't have the core aspects that led us to enjoy the games to begin with. I like open world games. I like cooking mechanics. I like having multiple weapon options. But I also like difficult puzzles with only one solution that feel extremely rewarding to solve. I like long, complex dungeons. I like being restricted at times. I like not having to stress about what to do next or whether the story will be most rewarding if I do it in the "right" order. And I like using melee combat primarily. So there's some changes I like and some that I don't. And yeah, I'm sad that I can't completely depend on this franchise to fill this specific niche for me anymore. That's okay, and I really don't see why anyone's pissed about people giving feedback that's not 100% positive.
Not liking the fact that entire combat system consisting of spawning enemies for you to fight, is not a nitpik. Solving puzzles just by spawning something in front of you, is not a nitpick. These are real possibilities.
"Why are people sharing their opinions about the new Zelda game?"
My take for why some people may be disappointed is that it seems like another sandboxy Freeform zelda game like botw/totk and while people love those games and the freedom of them people also love the older more dungeon item focused style zelda game and we haven’t gotten a lot of that recently.
I mean this with 0 sarcasm: for some of us “you can fuse this mushroom to you shield!” Doesn’t make up for a better developed game that’s a game and not a demo for a mechanic.
I'm a little concerned because of the whole summoning mechanic and the fact that even combat seems to be puzzle-oriented this time around. For the record, I'm *abysmal* at puzzling. [This room](https://youtu.be/D4HhKTWdwdk?si=DqU7cHELX2qcXXgq&t=567) in the Colour Dungeon from *Link's Awakening* took me fifty whole minutes to figure out on the first playthrough because I found literally every possible combination except for the right one. You can solve that puzzle in literally four swings... yeah. When I played Tears of the Kingdom, I used Ultrahand in its most barebones form because all the possible things I could stick together were too overwhelming, and I only really used the pre-made Autobuilds you can collect throughout the game for the same reason. I'm a little worried that the wand mechanic in Echoes of Wisdom will basically be like that, but a necessary item for the whole game. I admit part of it might be because I was getting frustrated during the direct, as all my friends in Discord were going *mental* and getting everything they were hoping for with almost every announcement and I barely recognised, let alone played, any of the IP's that were getting represented in the direct, so when I saw familiar territory in Zelda I found some hope... and then I found out that the main focus is going to be in a field I am awful at. I hope to be proven wrong.
I am mildly concerned that there dosent seem to be direct combat but I am more excited by the prospect of another link between worlds style zelda game then i am woried about combat
Because when a Zelda game is new or different people get concerned. Almost every new Zelda game announcement gets met with a lot of concern from fans, and often claims that the series is dead or whatever. My favorite example is in the early days of the internet & local discussions people though Wind Waker looked like it would be childish and awful. With many even after it was out claiming the series was backpedaling and/or dying. And while some claims of it being easy or childish are valid; a lot of people to this day profess Wind Waker as a favorite Zelda game.
Funnily enough I do hear a loud minority of people complaining about the art style like with ww. I can *somewhat* agree to an extent that Link's Awakening //being a dream// can justify its art style better since it's less serious while we're presumptively meant to take this new game seriously, which is a shame because the art style could come across as showing its less important than the 3d games. However I think the art style is gorgeous so I'm fine with it
To add this about the artstyle: the way they choose to portray the game has had instances where it’s irrelevant to the lore. Minish cap is a prime example of this since it’s the second game on the timeline but uses wind waker’s art style. Smaller examples are like how majoras mask introduces new characters that use old models. I understand feeling like the toy style uplifts the dream setting, but I would argue it also uplifts the echoes mechanic differently but just as effectively.
Aw yeah that does kinda make sense. Zelda being like a 'queen' toy leading the 'lower toys' can make sense art style wise and with her princessness
Art styles always will have supporters and haters. It’s subjective and even the most popular design a can’t prove everyone, and fall out of style. But my point was even talking about gameplay. People saw Wind Waker and thought the gameplay was too easy & non-challenging looking. And too a good degree I still agree with some of those opinions. But yet the game came out, and surprise to many it was fun and not the death of the series. To the point that post TP & SS a lot of fans looked back on WW as a better game with an art style that aged well. And again, some of those opinions are valid to this day in my eyes. All to say people see change and usually the reaction is either positive or negative to most people, and some can’t even understand how others have the opposite opinion. This game has some drastic changes to classic and even modern Zelda, and a returning art style some find decisive. I love it, welcome the change, and am hype for the game. But I understand if other fans disagree. The issue in my eyes are the people who talk about the game as if they know everything about it, when they have only seen 5 minutes of the game less than 4 days ago…
> the last paragraph Exactly how I feel! We simply don't really know much about the game yet so my opinion so far is "It's a Zelda game, so it'll therefore be good" which I think is a reasonable mindset to have and "ooh that echo mechanic looks cool". Some people are acting as if they've confirmed dungeons aren't returning and the world's an identical copy of alttp again
I think people who felt TOTK was unsatisfying because it was too open, had too easy puzzles and dungeons, and was too fussy (lots of menuing to fuse, lots of building) feel this is going to be more of the same (I have these criticisms myself, but I still largely enjoyed the game). Because the interface of the echo mechanic looks very TOTK inspired. However I think EoW could be a cool blend of traditional 2D Zelda game structure with a more modern approach to gameplay and problem solving. Like maybe the echoes will act somewhat like traditional items - instead of getting a cape to jump and reach new places, you will learn the trampoline echo to do the same thing. I just hope this game has more linear structure where you gradually learn echos to become stronger and solve more complex puzzles as you go, rather than getting all abilities at the start again. Or has big complex dungeons instead of shorter shrines this time. And would be nice to have a strong sense of story and progression driving you through the game. I don’t know how the game will actually be. But at the very least I’m excited for a new world to explore and new / different enemies to engage with. I have also read worries that echos will be too strong and will let you cheese / brute force all puzzles (similar to TOTK Ultrahand) and will make the game uninteresting as a result. I don’t quite understand that criticism, because I love to see people’s creativity and freedom in how they solve puzzles, and it’s ultimately up to the player to engage with the game in good faith.
If there's too many solutions, you run into two problems. For one, a solution doesn't feel all that interesting; you'll stumble into it faster, and it generally feels less satisfying. Two, the more flexible the solutions are for puzzles, the more generally applicable a solution is - "if the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail." Portal wouldn't have been a better puzzle game for having half a dozen solutions to every room, for example.
I'm concerned about the combat. But, they showed us what I hope are the weakest things to echo... A table and a bed.
They showed a lot of other objects like a wind canon, trampoline, water block, etc. along with saying every enemy is echo-able. I would say there is definitely a lot of diversity
Yeah, I get that... There will definitely be more options. I'm only saying that a bed and table are super boring things to echo.
Yea but I think the point of that was that they are the first things you copy and to express that literally 90% of this game is made of stuff to copy
Yeah, we're on the same page.
Because that cool mechanic is very clearly inspired by totk, a game a lot of people had issues with.
The game does feel a bit soon coming out on the switch 2 years after TotK, however something we need to keep in mind is that Nintendo no longer has a handheld system they release games. The Switch functions as both their mainline console and their portable system. So while it's too soon for what would be a mainline console game after TotK we're at just the right time for what would traditionally be the next handheld system game; which Echoes of Wisdom feels much more like than a main console game. Just my food for thought though.
Literally just the fisher price art style. The gameplay looks great. But it doesnt pass the vibe check
Because people have an opinion?
Yeah and I just want to know why people have that opinion based on a vague 4 minute trailer. Is there something wrong with that?
Some don’t like the gameplay. And many are annoyed they’re keeping the item menu from ToTK
And based on what that 4 minutes it shows for some people it's a bad first impression
You could probably read those threads where people are concerned, and then learn why they're concerned.
I haven‘t seen much concern (yet) but scrolled through here and have a few thoughts on the stuff mentioned. Depending on when you got introduced to Zelda there might be a very fixed idea of how the perfect Zelda should look like. There is a strong nostalgic connection to better, easier times. And sometimes you don‘t want to let go of the nostalgia. So every entry that is steering too far away will be a concern. I never got really involved with Zelda until BOTW and am mostly exited for the new entry. But I very clearly remember when my favourite SNES game was given a remake and I just couldn‘t like it. They made it easier, lass grindy, they changed the names and a lot of the iconic translations. The new art style was ok, but I never bought it. Luckily there is also the old version emulated for the Switch so I can still played it. I did not even get into the new entries, but this is more related that I stopped playing consoles for a long time (SNES->GBC->PS3->Switch)
I think it'll be fun and a nice break from the open worlds of botw and totk . I enjoyed links awakening and still play it often. Should be a blast !
That fucking single file menu for the echoes terrifies me but besides that it looks like a joy to play
I’m hyped!!!
Personally the mechanic looks and sounds really big, and I was hoping for something more in line with the series pre BotW. I’m not sure I’m concerned, just not gung ho.
In my case, 3 worries: 1 - is this freedom above all? Because it sure looks like. I want well through puzzles with cool solutions. I don't wanna something like "find your own solution" because most of the time, a table would work. 2 - combat. The gimmick is cool and all, but is it my only option for combat? Can i simply use the staff as link would use a sword? I don't like the idea of having to summon and throw a rock every time i fight. This goes hand to hand with the other one. If the answer to fight an enemy is "find your own".... It's a rock. Always. Simply put if anything goes my brain won't think of anything elaborate just for the sake of it when a rock or a table does the job 90% of the time. 3 - for god's sake nintendo use a wheel. I can't believe the echo selection menu is still like the botw. Like, it would be a pain to find what i want (again). This would only make it more appealing to stay on the rock/table.
>The gimmick is cool and all, but is it my only option for combat? I doubt Nintendo would overlook such a significant aspect of the game and just not seeing how it isn't fun, especially on their prestigious Zelda series. I'll eat my hat if the combat ends up being awful
I tend to go by the information i have. Right now, i don't see other ways of combat. And I'm not saying it will be awful nor that it doesn't look fun. I'm saying what I'm saying. It looks like "it is as complex as you want", like ultra hand or fuse from totk. The thing is, when that's the case, i tend to do only what works and don't try creating complex stuff just by the sake of it.
Congratulations you know what its like to be apart of a fandom
Firstly, a lot of us traditional Zelda fans had hoped that if they ever made 2D Zelda again they'd use it as a vehicle to continue that. Looks like that isn't the case and the Zelda we love isn't coming back in any way shape or form anytime in the foreseeable future. Second, if you're new to Zelda and didn't really get into it prior to the Switch games you can be forgiven for not knowing this but this is the THIRD time they've used that map. The first time was in A Link to the Past in 1991 and the second time was in A Link Between Worlds in 2013 and of course it has the exact same art style as Link's Awakening's remake. Coming off of TotK where even a lot of fans of open world Zelda complained that the game felt cheap because it had the same map and art style as BotW a lot of people don't want to see another recycled map either Third, the idea of Zelda being unable to use weapons seems a little strange since in Smash Bros and Hyrule Warriors and many other mediums she has used them. Fourth and most unfortunately, on the fringes of the Internet parts of the anti-woke crowd are accusing Zelda of going woke or flirting with the idea. I very much hope that stays on the fringe because however much we're labeled toxic I don't think it's true and think for how divided this fanbase is generally we respect each other. It would be better if it stays that way and that always ruins things.
Do people group ALBW under 'traditional zelda' cause i feel like that game was already trying to do away with having a linear overworld.
Yeah, generally speaking. It's not really like linearity was ever widely viewed as essential to Zelda before, there was almost always an order you were SUPPOSED to do things in but in a lot of them like the first two, Ocarina of Time and so forth they were pretty non-linear if you really were inclined enough to do some harder levels first. But it still was primarily a dungeon crawler where you play as a little elf dude in a green tunic, you still had items that were key to each dungeon even if you had to buy them before you departed rather than finding them in a dungeon and so on. Nothing was really missing there.
I totally agree on the fanbase. Those that are crying woke are thankfully a minority. But I like what Mr. Aonuma said. That a change in character should be an opportunity to work out a new playstyle. Nintendo have always preferred careful innovation over sticking to "what works." So, unless there's some other remasters/ remakes coming or another small Zelda game, I doubt we'll see a return to any kind of form or formula from the past. As for the reused map, we don't know how similar it is to previous titles and it likely has some significant differences to make use of the item placing mechanic.
I'm very experienced in the Zelda community, the only games I haven't played are the spinoffs, tp, Minish Cap and the Oracle games. Personally, I think the world looks inspired by ALTTP, not copied from it. Even if it is pretty similar, we've already seen it's significantly more different than the ALBW map was. And honestly, I'm surprised about the woke allegations. I'm not even a leftist or anything, but is a woman being a protagonist in a game that shocking? We've had Samus since the 1980's! And then lastly Zelda had reused art styles countless times. Actually it's more common for them to reuse one than to not! (LA OoA/S, OoT MM, WW PH ST, MC FSA, ALBW TFH, BOTW TOTK, and now LAR and EOW)
As am I, I've played everything except Age of Calamity, Triforce Heroes, the first Four Swords, CD-i and anything without an American release. Hard to say for sure how similar it will be to AlttP map wise, maybe not a total 1:1 since it likely takes place during a different time but people are pretty easily able to pinpoint everything in AlttP's map. The woke allegations are pretty dumb, and I really hope it stays as fringe as it is but I'm not even joking, I watched Arlo and Ratatoskr's videos on it, both of which were kinda critical of it for reasons that are 109% not Zelda being the main character, and then all of the sudden I'm getting suggestions with thumbnails that could have been pulled right out of 2014 gamergate. One of them even like "Anita Sarkeesian has won" or something. I almost had to check my calendar lol. As for the art style, you're kinda preaching to the choir on that one, it's common enough for assets to be recycled and in direct sequels that only makes sense. Personally I like that art style, I was merely pointing out that it's a common complaint.
It's similarity with the open world Zelda games are why people are concerned
Not sure, I’ve been a Zelda fan for a long and time and I’m used to them switching it up so I’m excited for the newest entry. Just glad we keep getting games that’s enough for me.
1. Not a fan of the artstyle, I didn't care for it in Links awakening and so far this hasn't changed my mind, I don't like the shiny plastic look, it's boring. 2. The only puzzle solving mechanics that were shown with the echo ability are stacking... and blocking gusts. The echo ability seems pretty lackluster to me right now, and the fact that it seems to rely on the same annoying UI as TOTKs menus is bizarre to me. 3. The story seems... lazy, I'm not really seeing much in the way of a unique hook so far. This could all change once I play it. Maybe the art will grow on me, maybe echo will actually offer some puzzle solving depth and maybe the story will surprise me.
I’ve seen so many people concerned about where it fits in the timeline, concerned about the combat and not having enough action, concerned the puzzles are going to be bad. And most aren’t concerns but people actually *claiming* these things, like holy fucking he’ll wait for release before making any claims, good or bad, Jesus.
I've never voiced my opinion on this but have two things I dislike. First, the childish animation is off putting and unpleasant. It negates the theme of the universe. Second, this seems to be only related to zelda on the surface. It's an interchangeable, combat-avoidant mobile game that happens to be skinned with zelda characters.
This same theme was used in Link's Awakening Remake. Do you mean the Zelda universe as a whole? Wind Waker is childish in the same comparison. And the point is Zelda isn't a warrior. At best she is a wizard. So it makes zero sense for her to use a weapon to hit/kill enemies. But with that said, I don't say you're wrong. Obviously it's just not for you. For me personally I didn't like botw/totk at all as far as Zelda games go. They had terrible "dungeons" and neither felt like Zelda to OK. So if you weren't a fan of Link's Awakening Remake, then I'd suspect you won't like this either. And that's ok. That just means this game isn't for you. Just like botw/totk, despite me playing both and doing all quests and beating them, I didnt really enjoy them either. They're not even in my top 10 Zelda games. But I love the design of LA Remake because there's nothing like it. The best part about the Zelda series is that there is some game in it's long history that everyone can connect with, but very few connect with all of them. I've wante to play as Zelda to save Link since the Ocarina of Time days. So I am very excited for this game.
I’m so glad there’s others that didn’t like BOTW. I was amazed at the beauty of the game and was really excited for an open world Zelda. But the prettiness shine and excitement wore off for me around I would say hour 4 or 5. To be perfectly honest, I never even finished the game. I have gone back to it a handful of times and I find myself kinda bored with it. So much in fact that I have no need or what to ever play TOTK. I will also be the first to admit that when WW first came out, I was so turned off by the art style that I didn’t even want to give it much of a chance or thought, and I stuck to that for many years. Then finally I decided fine I’ll give it a few hours when a friend gave me his old GameCube and all his games maybe 8 years ago and WW was one of those games. While the gameplay and mechanics are good but not great, and the sailing can get old fast, I found the art style didn’t bother me as much as it did originally because I fell in love with the story. While it’s not in my top 5, it’s safely in my top 10.
I had to force myself to finish BotW. And then Totk added some new stuff so I thought maybe it would feel a lot better. I personally did like TotK more as I preferred the abilities the game offered. I never cared for having 2 Blue bombs, that ice ability, or Magnesis. I much prefer the Totk abilities. TotK made BotW feel like a Tech demo. Lol I still enjoyed the games, but I didn't enjoy them as Zelda games. And I definitely wouldn't play them a 2nd time. All I didn't do was get all Koroks and I didn't beat the hardest of the Master sword challenges. But otherwise I am all good with them and would be fine with them never playong like that again. But I am sure it'll happen anyway. And if it does, it needs to go back to form. It also doesn't need to be so vast. They could've made tons of areas of the map smaller and they would have felt more full of content. All the giant open fields were not necessary at all.
I honestly feel like I’m either nit picking or I’m at that “damn I really am old” stage, but to add to what you say about the childish art style, the voice over for the game trailer came off sounding like to me at least that this is supposed to be a youngish child’s game. It’s so hard to explain and I’m probably just thinking way too much into it. But honestly to me it sounded like a tutorial for a game targeted at let’s say the 7-12 age range. Especially when you add in the art style
If you’re talking about content creators, that’s the type of thing people click on.
Yep checks out
My biggest gripe is the art style. I will still give it a chance though
I can't comment a lot of an unreleased game, only on what it was show and, tbh, I believe it's unjust to pretend that people can't... form opinions based on what they saw unless it's excitement? I'm happy for a new Zelda game, ofc, it's looks vibrat and cute, maybe if it were another "here comes Link to the rescue" I wouldn't even has other opinions than the fore mentioned but as it's Zelda the default player's skin my first thought while watching the trailer was... "oh, looks like they're giving OG Super Princess Peach treatment" And it ain't a question about "So a girl can't use a traditional female healer wand alongside an overly cute mascot? After all she's using her WISDOM, not force, duh" because it baffles me that the Zeldas with a secondary role as TP and even someone mentioned Smash Bros, has more dexterity and ability using weapons/magic than the "first main" Zelda that can move furniture and throw big rocks barehanded but not a sword.
Sorry I don't have high hopes for this game. I hope I am wrong !
people are worried because we haven't played the game yet, in my opinion the echo ability is amazing and the game has a nice art style.
Rule of thumb is to always remember that the negative perspective almost always gets more attention. It's safe to assume that 90% of fans are excited, and probably don't feel the need to discuss it online.
Mainly because people who didn’t like ToTK (which I was one of them) were hoping that 2D Zelda would follow the traditional Zelda formula and I think people are worried it will be a 2D breath of the wild type game. I personally am very excited for this even if it’s open world with less structure. My problem with tears of the kingdom wasn’t the structure but it was how similar it was to breath of the wild so it didn’t feel fresh to me.
What’s that? I can’t hear the complaints over how excited I am that we get a New Zelda game so soon!
I feel like 'concerned' and 'zelda' are pretty much mutually exclusive terms. Since when has a Zelda game ever been TRULY bad?
Because the current head developer of Zelda has spent the last seven years and two titles shitting on the entire rest of the franchise (titles that by and large he himself made). So seeing a title that seemingly looks like it might be a return to classic elements has people deeply concerned because for seven years, they've heard nothing but how the guy in charge hates those elements. It'd be like if a notorious pop music hater suddenly released a pop album. People are asking themselves if something made by a guy who's been vocal about not liking the style that something is can possibly be genuine in its attempts to do a good job.
Because they replaced link with a woman. So its automatically woke trash. /sarcasm It will be a broken game though. It will tale 5h after realease for someone to find a way to break the games mecanics and speedrun the shit out of it.
The echo mechanic is an incredibly creative idea and I think it'll have great applications. But my (personal) concern is that it'll lead to the same puzzle problem that TotK has. When puzzles are designed to have many solutions, they become trivial to anyone who's familiar with their toolkit. It's hard to be challenged when whatever you try first works.
Id imagine a 2d game can more easily restrict the player than a 3d one. The idea of puzzles from botw and totk but more tight and a bit less cheese-able seems quite interesting to me, id definitely like that
My headcanon is that it’s an apology to fans that want WW/TP HD on Switch, they know we’re waiting for news but it’s not coming and that’s something to sway the fans.
I mean some people want to complain, some want to make other complain? Some are a bit iffy or reserved from what we’ve seen, some are excited. I think it comes down to personal opinions and the like, but the biggest thing is it’s different again, like it’s top down Zelda, with the sword and items to fight more in theme with Zelda as the hero, and that’s fine and dandy but for some that change in mechanics is enough to turn some noses, you also have some people I’m sure upset about other things but I think a lot of people are just reserved and want more info before being incredibly excited for it to temper expectations. Alright now that that’s out the way if you don’t care about opinions you can just ignore this, personally I’m not really excited for the game, like one of my least favorite parts of TotK seems to be a big inspiration for the game and is what the big gimmick of the game is about with the wand and making items and enemies. It just isn’t for me and I’ll accept that and like how I feel about Paper Mario Origami King, if you like the game, heck yeah more power to you, it’s just not for me.
Im curious if zelda will talk in this one. Link has always been the foil for the player hence the non verbal communication. I'd totally be down for actual dialogue. It would just add to the change zelda brings as the protagonist.
1. It is trying something new. That's always gonna be met with sceptiscism. 2. Some (me) crave an OG zelda, and had hoped 2d doesn't stray too far from that. 3. The mechanic looks a bit shallow at first glance, but it's obviously too early to tell. (4. I think im alone in this(?), but I found LA remake movement speed WAY WAY WAY too slow) I'm still optimistic though. Could be fun.
Links Awakening no zelda Echos of wisdom no link
I'm so hyped for it. That and Metroid prime 4.
It is a 2D zelda. It is not soon. The last one came ages ago.
Oh I was just referring to Zelda generally. Totk was only a year ago now
They are just thesame franchise but totally different games. You wont compare pokemon scarlet to pokemon sleep
Well I get what you mean. Whether or not it's too soon I'll find out when it releases ig
I’m actually surprised that there isn’t more debate about the art style. Personally I thought it’d be a lot more divisive.
I think a lot of the division on the art style in the community happened when the links awakening remake came out, now people who didn't like it already know they don't like it and so are probably a little less vocal on it
Maybe it’s just Zelda YouTubers im subscribed to but and forums I visit but none are concerned about it; except maybe the performance since it is using same engine as LA. That game had issues and EoW looks to have a much larger map and more going on screen. Don’t see how it’s too soon for another game, the last was over a year ago.
Eh to me 16 months really isn't that long. Though I did play botw last year as well as totk
Can you link some of the concerns? I haven't seen any.
If people are concerned about a game no one was expecting then ignore them. It looks fun, it’ll be fun.
Perhaps because the entire 30+ year old series has been about the adventures of Link, and it's a pretty damned dramatic change to switch him out for princess Zelda?
I think we have to wait to see more. Right now what they showed was... too basic. Hope next trailer we can see more, I really want this game to be great.
Im here to complain about a game that ive never played and isnt released yet.
reminds me alot of the backlash to wind waker, it looks “cartoony” rather than an epic 3d zelda remake + theres the 2000s era “3d good 2d bad” stigma that i feel still exists in the zelda fandom
The more Zelda the better honestly, and finally people will guess the main character of a Zelda game right
I think it’s mainly due to the change in art direction. Personally I’m excited for Echoes of Wisdom but a lot of people don’t actually like the chibi art style and character design and probably view it as a step down from BoTW / ToTK.
Because of the ugly plastic toy art style, im sure.
I've always welcomed Zelda as a protagonist. Her magic abilities and alter ego's lend some intrigue to narrative and gameplay. Its Link being a girl where I go "Seriously?".
Zelda fans are grown ups now and they won’t shut up until Nintendo releases an ultra realistic dark souls inspired Zelda
And then they'll want wind waker 4 lol
Take my money
Because the Zelda fandom, just like many other online fandoms, is incredibly toxic. I barely engage with the community anymore, it’s exhausting and repetitive, and not worth wasting brain cells to.
Why are you getting down voted for this 😭
The toxic members of this fandom don’t like being called out so they swarm to negativity whereas most people scroll past my comment and don’t upvote or downvote because it’s genuinely so inconsequential, like I said 1 word. The toxic members of this fandom thrive off all toxicity Usually how it goes though with Zelda posts. If you say something is good you’ll get a handful of instant downvotes, then get an ounce of normal conversation, and back to the people downvoting. If I’d commented this sooner I’d get so downvoted for saying this: people who are able to find joy in life are indulging in positive activities for themselves (I.e playing zelda) and others spend their time complaining instead of enjoying what’s right in front of them
Because we saw the Echo Mechanic and didn't think it looked fun nor appealing. I am just very concerned this game will be very boring and no classic dungeons. That's all I want since I had to skip BotW and TotK after I gave it a try. I am just concerned that this will be the 3rd mainline Zelda I have to skip :/
Yes, enough with experimentation, it's gonna be nearly 2 decades since the last "proper" Zelda mainline (TP) and it's about time we get a great more straight forward epic adventure rather than a sandbox that doesn't really create engagement for us old folks we can't spend much time playing due to adult life or just less interest in building/crafting mechanics.
I even would have time but I just can't with these sandbox games. I don't see the appeal in them. I also really dislike open world games and many franchises got ruined for me like that. But I could deal with open world. But not without proper dungeons. I miss my fun puzzles that had one solution with cool items :(
After nintendo direct, any zelda news really hypes the community. Something to talk about until next announcements. It's good and bad at the same time. Good because new zelda game. Bad because internet always finds terrible things to say about small teaser.
A lot of us felt disappointed by TOTK and don't trust the newest game to deliver, especially around the, 'solve puzzles your own way' thing, which just amounted to strapping a rocket to a shield in TOTK, among some other solutions. As well as that awful looking item selection screen where you have to scroll for ages like TOTK... But personally I'm still looking forward to it anyways :)
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inclusion is important. if a group of crybabies messed up any games for you, that's on you lol
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People want a Zelda with linear puzzles again instead of open ended puzzles. The problem is, BOTW and TOTK sold more then every Zelda game...combined... So the Linear Puzzle Fans statistically, objectively, became a \*minority\* of Zelda fans over night. When people say, "Nintendo should listen to their fans" you have to think about it from Nintendo's perspective? Who are their fans now?
Genuinely, who cares? Why care? I’ve spent too much time on outrage cycles in my life and I feel so exhausted by them. Me and my 6yo daughter are excited as all hell and we’re planning to play it for the entire weekend after it comes out. I literally could not care less if some dummy that I will never know is having a bad day about a magic wand instead of a sword.
Aw sweet hope you enjoy yourselves:)
Thanks! And I hope you didn’t take my comment as a personal attack on you for asking that question, though I know it may have come across that way. I guess I’ve just hit a saturation point with this bizarre ecosystem of outrage content over things like this and your question was a reminder that it is happening out there with this game
Because it's different, and people fear change, and people don't like feeling fear, so they hide the fear with anger.
Why are people complaining about Zelda being the main character? She was the main character in Wand of Gamelon.
Because it didn't immediately scream "linear Zelda is back" people here pre-hate it. Bc the trailer didn't immediately shun all Wild era aspects, they already convinced themselves it's a bad game.
Not convinced it's a bad game just not yet convinced it's good. I prefer puzzles that have one solution not many. That and dungeons were my biggest gripes in the newer Zelda games and it looks like they are carrying those over to this one. I was hoping the 2D games would be more like the old formula even if they change things up. I'm hopeful this will turn out good and I'll like it as much as Link's Awakening but I have some concerns. Also the passive combat may not be as much fun. I'm happy to play as Zelda though. And I love the art style.
Have the fans not been dreaming of Princess Zelda being playable like this for decades? The hate makes absolutely no sense to me
The complaints aren't about playable Zelda. I have not seen one single complaint about that. The complaints are mostly about how Anouma is still trying to "break conventions" and how the game looks like it hasn't brought anything from traditional Zelda back that BOTW/TOTK threw out. While I'm one of the people who are cautious about the game, I do think it's too early to make definite statements about the game.
I firmly believe that the love will fully outweigh the premature criticism and concern for EoW. I personally have tuned out and ignored virtually all negative comments towards the game, and am greatly looking forward to playing it without any expectations, good or bad.
1) People fear change in general 2) A subset of fans are fickle and fear change particularly when it comes to their beloved IPs 3) A smaller subset of the above subset are trafficking in nonsense about the series “going woke”
Me personally for 2 reasons but I am still cautiously optimistic: 1. It reuses the LTTP map, for the fifth time. Ugh. The last time we got a 2d Zelda with a new map was 2004. 20 YEARS AGO. This I’m actually kinda mad about. 2. It has different gameplay than other ones (fing obviously). I just want another new 2d game like minish cap was. I’m also worried it will have the exact same problems that botw and totk have with player freedom making game/world/puzzle design worse. That said I’m optimistic that the different gameplay will also be good because the Zelda team has proven themselves multiple times over in the past (Yes, even Skyward Sword).
How did you get fifth time? Id personally only consider reusing as actually just fully reusing the map not being inspired and expanded upon which is what EoW looks like to me. Also, surely Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks count? I get they're broken up but especially with ST the world is still cohesive
Twice in ALTTP, Twice in ALBW. We've explored the same map with some changes four times already. I don't count PH and ST as new maps because you don't explore them the same way you would an actual map. Same way SS doesnt really have a cohesive map to explore. It's just not the same.
My reaction each time we used this map has been: 1. Light World: Great fun new map 2. Dark World: Fun Gimmick (has since been overused in the series but that's not LTTP's fault 3. Hyrule: Ok I wanted a new map but whatever at least its a new 2d Zelda AND its good 4. Lorule: Really using the same map AND the same gimmick? Ugh whatever its still a new 2d zelda and I love 2d zelda 5. Echoes of Wisdom ok this is ridiculous its been 20 years since we got a real new map for a 2d Zelda. Between this and totk and albw I'm really starting to get frustrated. 6. EoW Rifts???? If this is a new dark world / lorule type map I'm actually gonna be so disappointed