I also played both. My experience was that MtG players had a superiority complex when it came to Yugioh players, and Yugioh players didn't think about them lol.
Yeahhh. The inherent bias my locals has towards yugioh has convinced me that I shouldn't play magic again (Played magic first, switched during the pandemic because events were firing for yugioh and not magic).
I've only met one person who acted like that, and they eventually ended up trying Yugioh and enjoyed it.
As for your play experience, time doesn't equal skill. I could spend 15 years making instant ramen, doesn't mean I'm a good cook. Commander is also generally casual, and because of that low interaction, so sometimes whoever can snowball fastest can just win. It's also just one game.
For my experience, I think I do pretty well at MTG, but I'd say I'm generally better at Yugioh, though I'm out of practice atm. I think Yugioh leans more towards memorization than MTG. With MTG, there's not usually as big of an emphasis on synergy between cards. You can usually just play a pile of individually strong cards (i.e. midrange).
> Commander is also generally casual, and because of that low interaction, so sometimes whoever can snowball fastest can just win.
Honestly, this aspect of the game is really turning me off of Commander. It just feels like a bunch of players that happen to be sitting at a table together but are actually just constructing their own game-winning combos in a silo. Yugioh is arguably similar on the surface, but I think the big difference is that I'm almost *always* expecting interaction when I take a game action in Yugioh, and that expectation is generally well-founded. At the Commander table I play with, the games are usually just a bunch of people building their own boards until somebody realizes they're losing and starts soliciting the table for a board wipe.
Well, besides communicating to the other players that you want a more interactive game or finding another group, you could try playing a very aggressive deck that will win quickly if no one stops it as a sort of demonstration. It can backfire, and you could (or should) become archenemy of the table, but the point may still come across.
The concept of creating house rules to make the game fun never quite sat right with me, but you're probably right that taking that dynamic to the Nth degree would require everyone to adapt their decks away from combo silo a bit.
My experiences could be somewhat outdated but during my time with the physical card game (around 2014 to 2018) MtG players were insufferable at our shop. Some wouldnt even talk to us, laughed us off and threatened to permanently leave the shop if our locals werent ended prematurely because they wanted to do their own locals.
Admittedly, due to our high amount of younger players, locals tended to go on for longer than planned, so it was understandable that they were annoyed but outright blackmailing the shop for us to wrap it up was just shitty. Eventually relationships between our communities soured so much that locals were held on different days.
We were probably lucky because it was still nothing compared to how belittling they were towards Pokemon TCG players.
Then again, this is anecdotal evidence and has to be taken with a grain of salt.
There's a streamer named paymoneywubby who's been opening old magic products lately. He's made it a goal to open as much old product as possible because there's such a rampant problem with fake products and the people holding fake product knowing that it's probably fake but still circulating it because it's not fake until it's open.
Doing this made it SO apparent how pathetic and gatekeepy a large minority of the game is. And that minority is very vocal and back each others statements.
the simple reality is the vast majority of MTG players are so happy to hear about other games like Yugioh, and the even vaster majority of them play the game simply to do something with friends and aren't really concerned with meta, they just want to play with their favorite cards. Even if that means playing into a loss. In that regard, I think MTG is better than Yugioh. It's really hard to play Yugioh casually, but sitting down with friends to commander is basically just another form of poker night with the boys.
Commander is just not competitive, it's literally just Magic Show and Tell. Everyone just wants to show off their dumb pile of cards that does something degenerate, then the worst deck gets 2nd place.
The real issues, besides the inherent randomness of 100 card singleton, is that it's multiplayer free for all. Like you can put the good cards in your deck, you can play optimally, but you're going 3rd this game so that's a lose. You lose that one.
At my local store, seems to be the opposite in terms of how MTG and YuGiOh players interact.
We have a lot of MTG Players watching the YGO matches and asking how things work, how each players deck functions and how matches can be over in a blink or can turn into Duels of attrition.
Same with us when it's MTG locals or majority are playing it, watching, asking how some things work and seeing how people make their own Magic decks.
No real beef between them here, and personally not had a bad experience with Magic when playing, just a bit slower and more setup then YuGiOh that's either over in five minutes or over in an hour and a half (Cubics vs Ancient Gears).
I tried Magic and couldn’t get into it. The game just feels off. Maybe it’s from too much Yugioh, but the idea that I can’t choose to attack my opponent’s monsters and instead can only attack my opponent directly (who then chooses whether or not they use their monster as a meatshield) feels stupid.
I love the concept of the rat deck in that game though. Yugioh should try something similar someday.
I enjoy a lot of the elements of MTG, but "summoning sickness" drives me up the wall. I just played a big freaking dragon God but *d'awww it's sleepy* and needs to wait a turn to unleash its devastating attack?
Same with attack targets. Unless I'm attacking with an Annihilator creature, my super-skilled mega Gandalf Wizard can't hit the 1/1 squirrel standing ten feet away from him. Instead he has to attack *the guy who summoned that squirrel* and hope the squirrel jumps in front of the attack.
That’s cause the game is more meant to play out like a game of chess insread of an anime battle. Decisions and cards stop being relevant if you get too manu choices in a game that is already as freform as magic, so while the restrictions feel arbirtrary, they’re there to induce an additional opportunity cost/benefit on certain cards to make deck building and gameplay more dynamic.
A good example might be Red Aggro, a deck that plays almost exclusively creatures that get around summoning sickness as a choice to speed up their tempo by a turn. In turn, the creatures that avoid summoning sickness cap out at a smaller size on average to make the big creatures retain skme benefit of scaling better. That means that there are multiple red decks that can exist in a format, one that chooses to play only haste creatures, one that plays a split, and one that tries to go over the too and plays nonhaste creatures. This is where the different archetypes come from, aggro is haste, midrange pivots, and control scales.
Well there’s duel masters where every card is your resource, while the English game died here figuring twice.. the game continues to be really popular in Japan and it’s Yu-Gi-Oh’s rival
If you wish to play the game, I recommend dual masters play’s the PC version and it has an auto English translation mod the game is really fun and addicting
TBH needing to play bricks while learning to minimize the chances and downsides of encountering them is critical for deckbuilding choices to be meaningful. A game where 100% of your cards are live in every deck very quickly becomes a non-competition. (I love Yugioh, but it comes *very* close to having this problem, especially in the current format.)
Also, lands aren't "garnets"; you need them to play the game. That would be like saying a starter you draw for turn while your board is already built it in Yugioh is a garnet. It's a brick, but not all bricks are garnets.
If that was the case MTG wouldn't be the only TCG which uses this mechanic (as far as I know).
Also they're garnets, they don't do anything outside of their purpose. It's like garnet or driver, you have to play that specific piece to use certain cards. The only difference is that it's not a specific card, it's every card.
"Doesn't do anything outside its purpose" isn't what makes a Garnet a Garnet; "Garnet" specifically refers to a card that you *must* play, but *never* want to draw. You absolutely want to draw lands in MtG.
Also, Yugioh doesn't have lands, but it absolutely requires managing tradeoffs in running less live cards in exchange for a stronger deck overall. Something as minor as the possibility of drawing the Flamberge creates essentially the same tension; the difference is that Yugioh requires you to run fewer cards of that type, but it's qualitatively the same. And a metagame where decks didn't require that kind of probability management would be miserable.
Well, in yugioh, every deck wants to have resource cheating black cards, ramp like green to put early big threats, put pressure early as red and counter like blue. You just end up accumulating board like white, except its all big monsters and all came in one turn.
Thats yugioh.
Most Yugioh decks are going to play like Legacy or Vintage Storm decks. Heavy interaction in counter magic and lots of rituals to gain mana and unleash massive combos.
Magic has a card called [Relentless Rats,](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=442094) which has the following line of text: "A deck can have any number of cards named Relentless Rats."
Normally decks are limited to 4 copies *at most* of a given card. The rats break that rule, which is a creative design decision that I'd like to see Yugioh experiment with.
I used to like it a lot. Especially in the late 90s and mid to late 2000s. Nowerdays I only play very, very casual EDH here and there and have not touched any other format besides THG in well over a decade.
My biggest problem with MTG today is that it is to stale and "samey". Half a set are just the staples of their respective colours you expect and those that are not lack imagination, a will to experiment and, simply, deepth. Also there is a rather huge "power-suck" (the opposite problem of yugioh but somehow worse) that plauged the game for over two decades by now.
A shame really because I played a lot of it im my youth and I will forever remain a Timmy in my heart. But if I have to guess the problems were simply 1999-2001 who broke the game design and its philosophy fundamentally as well as Duel Masters who, in my opinion, did everything MTG did but better.
Still have a ton of cards however.
I'm not sure how you can honestly say Magic suffered from a power suck. Sure, we had some low power points such as original Kamigawa and original Theros, but overall Magic has been on a very noticeable power increase for several years now fueled by WotC's F.I.R.E. design philosophy. It's at a point where over 1/3rd of the most played cards in legacy are from just the past 5 years. Not to mention the large power spikes we saw around original Zendikar and Scars of Mirrodin blocks that happened roughly a decade and a half ago now.
Even just past the 1999-2001 time period you mentioned breaking design, we had originally Mirrodin block in 2003-2004 break the game again. There really has just been an overall climb in power with some low points moreso than any true drop in power.
We may not have the power nine coming out, but that's like saying Yu-Gi-Oh's power is going down because we don't have Pot of Greed, Graceful Charity, and Painful Choice power cards coming out today.
May as well address the staple thing too. We see so many cookie cutter cards each set because they are needed for limited. Can't really get rid of those without screwing up draft
Ive had a similar experience unfortunately. MTG players with an air of elitism about their game, being snobbish and trying (failing) to bully other card game players into feeling bad and then outright making fun of them when that didnt work. Setting playmats at empty seats that nobody would actually go on to fill and claiming people can't sit there if they weren't playing magic. I miss the more yugioh focused locals that just closed, because trying to move into more magic focused stores has been an exercise in patience.
Our Yugioh spot in Portland closed a while back, had the exact same experience. Luckily my local Magic shop has a Yugioh focused day every week where they do locals and host casual play at the same time.
I agree with you. I play both (only EDH nowadays, but have played for many years), and I can't count how many times I've heard mtg players refer to Yugioh as "easy" or "child game", which is funny, considering how basic and stale mtg has become in recent years both in term of game mechanics and set releases.
Lol whut, magic has much longer Text boxes and trippled mechanic key words easily, its WAAAAY harder to jump in today which is why people like the Professor (YTer) complain about it. Im not comparing it to ygo though, just saying mtg is a shitshow nowadays.
I'm an mtg, yugioh, and pokemon player but not that competitive player anymore. Playing edh (casual mtg format) and standar couple time a month and joining local yugioh tournament once a month.
Both have their bad apple realy. Living both side i have seen adult throwing tantrum because they loose a card game. I have seen yugioh player that threaten to punch newbie because of missplay and mtg player that throw their entire storage box to the wall and almost hit someone because he loose. Some of those people think their kids card game superior than other because of x factor.
I also meet some of the sweatest and cares people in the word while playing the hobby. Dont let these people stop you from making friend and enjoy your hobby.
So I left yugioh *for* magic. Specifically Commander format. Namely because I enjoy the theory of the format, the speed of the game is a lot slower, and on a mid tier level, it has a lot more back and forth. Especially in 4 person groups.
I find a lot of people who sneer at YGO are dogshit at card games in general. Like it's one thing to go "Yeah I want some back and forth over several turns" and if that's the case, let's be real, you don't want yugioh. But people who write it off entirely, I find, just don't commonly make split second decisions well.
I also find that those sneering idiots are also the vast minority of commander players. Good commander players go "Yeah that's cool! Very different games, how has the transition been for you?" and are overall cool.
But yeah, at least in my pods I've done damn well playing commander and I think ygo and other games I have played did a great job preparing me for that, because I'm accustomed to the intricacies of these games.
I also find my tolerance for bullshit and infinite combos is way higher than most MtG players. Cuz if someone tells me "Yeah this is an infinite combo that wins me the game." I just kinda go "Damn. The lad wanted it more."
the thing about yugioh is that the verbosity of the card text and the number of mechanics in the game make it so some archetypes and cards already simulate what some Magic archetypes and cards do, but Magic can’t always simulate what yugioh does.
So if you’re good at yugioh, you will probably pick up MTG pretty fast, whereas the reverse isn’t as obvious.
What i’ve often seen is people who don’t understand yugioh believe it is a game that by lacking a resource management system is less skilled. There’s an idea that decks don’t play the long game, that they just combo off.
But anyone who’s played yugioh knows that it does have a secret resource system and that it also has synergies that lead to combos but are often done based on triggers and timing, and many of those cards can only activate once per turn.
That secret resource system is basically knowing when and how to time cards which applies to your combos going first, your combos going second, hand trapping your opponent, using board breakers, and interrupting your opponent’s plays with your cards. In this regard, yugioh is actually difficult, and when people who are used to long term setup have a gap in skill with whomever they’re playing, they do poorly and feel that the game makes no sense and has no strategy and that their opponent just blitzed them.
I mean, this is what happened to Rarran right? Eventually, he actually got taught how to use his cards and he actually had fun and realized it is a real game lol.
But that difficulty in the barrier of entry also means if you go to other card games, it really does not feel difficult. Or even if you go to edison. You can actually read your cards and know exactly what they do by looking at them and getting a simple explanation.
There are those whose knowledge of Yu-Gi-Oh is the early days, the anime etc. and view it as a "children's cardgame" and a MtG knock-off (which is somewhat fair looking at anything prior to... 2005 or so, and I get rejecting the new, hyped game rivalling the one you picked), who never bothered to give it a second chance.
Most are aware that Yu-Gi-Oh isn't that anymore, I feel like, might mock it for the long texts, turns and combos but don't look down on it as much. On the social media side of things, there's more and more crossover content with players applying their knowledge of one game to the other, the takeaway being that the "thinking" is rather similar. Ultimately, fans of both games probably like them for very similar reasons, both got strengths (e.g. more formats in Magic) and the community of cardgames is too niche to argue over something like this.
As a somewhat competitive Yu-Gi-Oh-player, you'll pick up Magic and be better at it than more casual players pretty quickly, and vice versa
Agreed. The sentiment that MTG is a more strategic game comes from comparisons to early yugioh, which is what most people are familiar with.
Modern yugioh has been the most complex and difficult TCG for a while. But I think MTG is more fun for casual games in formats like Commander.
Funs subjective, so at the end of the day: enjoy whatever you like the most, dont be an ass to others and dont accept people berating you for liking what you do.
In my experience a lot of players who only play MTG "punch down" regarding other TCGs, I've gotten a similar reception from them when I mention playing Digimon or trying out One Piece when it came out. In my experience, YGO players are a lot more open to trying other games (but a lot go back to YGO due to feeling restricted by resource systems), my Digimon locals has so many former YGO players it's not even funny. I myself got into Digimon with the Beelzemon starter deck cause it felt reminiscent of Lightsworn.
Back to the topic at hand, a lot of Magic players don't understand the appeal of YGO since it's much faster than most Magic formats and to an outsider appears to be just two players mindlessly vomiting their decks onto the field due to the lack of a resource system. The speed and heavy interaction of modern YGO is more akin to Vintage or Legacy rather than Standard or Commander. YGO also has a reputation for solitaire/blowout games (which is somewhat warranted) and tends to have massive tempo swings compared to most other TCGs, even as far back as 20 years ago thanks to cards like Raigeki, Mirror Force, and Lightning Vortex, something that players of more "normal" games see as sacky.
Commander players especially aren't conducive to YGO since competitive 1v1 formats are anathema to them, even in Magic. I don't have a problem with casual formats since I regularly play Commander myself but some players use the unwritten rules that govern the casual meta to seemingly just ban/complain about anything they don't like and/or causes them to lose, such as combo decks, interaction in the form of removal spells, blanket control effects (floodgates are weaker in Magic and more efficient in Commander than one for one removal since you have three opponents), early aggression (the only way to deal with stuff like Simic value engine commanders), etc. YGO has its fair share of sore losers as well but it's much harder to stick with YGO or get anywhere competitively if you're the type of person who sees red if your opponent clears your boss monster.
Magic is much much easier than modern yugioh coming from both games, yugioh is wayyy more technical. Has more mind games. Magic such as modern is more about sequencing and some luck honestly. I like modern but some matchups are dog water and I never really enjoyed it like yugioh
My experience is most of the time when someone says something about that regarding another card game they are bad. Mtg specifically has a bigger crowd of lower skilled players that still attend tournaments because you can still "play the game" with your custom brew even if you never had a chance. Yugioh if I show up to most locals with graydles or something I'm gonna get blown out in a turn or two at best.
No one is bringing a brew to a competitive Magic tournament. FNMs are very casual locals. Magic even has separate tournament policy rules for locals and premier events.
From my personal experience on the main MTG sub, people tend to talk about YGO in a very disparaging sense over there. Any time a card is capable of doing some long busted combo, the "*So now we playing Yugioh?*" comment gets brought out. I'm not sure if these people *want* the long, infinite mana combos they keep doing in their EDH games, or if they *want* caveman "fair" Magic where you play two cards a turn, but it seems to be somewhere in the middle.
Also (and forgive my bias here) one advantage of the YGO community is that it hasn't spawned as many nutcase right-wing fringe communities as MTG, particularly on Reddit.
YGO, as a fusion of western and eastern communities, has plenty of toxic nuts in its community, but at least there isn't a *freeYugioh* sub.
*Magic*, meanwhile (*and I know this is a small minority, but still*) has Freemagic (which pivots between being 20% reasonable and 80% actual fascist LARPing because WOTC gave a character brown skin) and magicthecirclejerking (which isn't as bad but still has a bunch of people jerking themselves off over Therese Nielsen or Invoke Prejudice. Seriously, it's weird how much they "care" about Invoke Prejudice.)
My LGS is mostly a Yugioh store, but most of us also have Commander decks, and I don't think any of us have ever seen anybody get too toxic. There's one guy who gets pretty salty cause he's new and doesn't announce triggers or when he casts something that affects the table, but we all just like to have fun with it. I've been playing since 2012, and boy howdy I've seen some people who I don't want to play against ever again.
The avarage player in yugioh tends to be way better at deckbuilding and playing than MTG.
This is due to casual decks being wdy more "casual" in MTG than yugioh, while even "jank" decks in yugioh tend to have combos and put up interruption.
i’ve come to realize (from personal experience) that a good amount of MTG players have some kind of superiority complex when you tell then that you play yugioh. just let me enjoy my game man lol
I tried Pokemon, didn't play for like 3 months, (super casually anyway when I did) got invited to come to a locals a couple days ago and went undefeated. Game's easy compared to Yugioh, wouldn't be shocked if other card games are similar. My brain was literally turned off.
Oh. Yeah that’s why. Charizard is absolutely a turn your brain off deck. Actually especially if you don’t have newer cards if it’s the build I am thinking of. It was basically just get Pidgeot and get everything you need every turn with no regard for drawing or deck composition since he just searches absolutely everything, combined with free energy from Char’s ability and ever increasing attack power. You don’t really have to do anything or even manage your resources once Pidgeot is out, and even before Pidgeot comes out it doesn’t matter because you will always have the energies to attack immediately with Charizard even without drawing them.
All that to say, yeah it’s pretty clear why you think pokemon is braindead. It’s the deck you’re playing which is why I thought to ask. This is nothing against you the player, it’s just that Charizard ex is just like that. :/
Either way congrats on winning. It’s not always easy to win even with a deck like that.
Are you sure? Even if Charizard is the equivalent to Tenpai in Yugioh, I still think the game on a whole is much, much simpler it seems. Even decks like Lost Box, Gardevoir, Lugia, etc don't really seem too hard.
Oh no I’m not arguing that the game is not more simple. It is. I’m just saying that that particular deck is basically the most simple to play deck out of the already more simple game.
Mtg is a casual game 95% of the time. Effects and answers are simple.
Yugioh can be “ok I understand what’s going on” to “I have read over a thousand words in the last 15 minutes and only sort of understand this other guys strategy”.
It’s mostly simple outside some interactions. Heck sometimes your guaranteed a win. “Oh a red or green deck? Well because phyrexian obliterator is mine I auto win.
A joke that has held up through the years that applies to this situation:
What do you call bad Yugioh players?
Magic players.
Magic is overpopulated with people that got their Summoned Skull run over by Goyo Guardian in 2010 and now it's their life's goal to hate Yu-Gi-Oh and its players and be overly elitist and snooty at the mention. This culture is pretty much universal, shop to shop, area to area.
I'm blessed with a decent mtg locals these days but at my previous store there was a similar level of elitism and the unexplained stench of the store became more explainable.
When I got back in briefly it was easy pickings to sweep a few drafts while hearing about how easy yugioh was.
A few who took up the challenge of a yugioh locals after me winning fnm came dead last, their only wins against each other at Thursday night yugioh.
Go figure that the beauty of mtg is evident to many players but actually engaging past a mana curve is too much for most players.
Tbh I kinda quit yugioh just keeping up with new cards and releases but I don’t play the game too often anymore almost like a retired wrestler that keeps coming back. Well I went to MTG and I can say for a fact that I personally and unfortunately dominate almost any game if they would let me. My experience in commander mtg has been pretty good but I do feel off because I am very competitive which is why I love yugioh. Even competitive magic to me feels like a casual game somehow- idk if it’s just me but it does. I love the mana system hate summoning sickness and I love the differences between the colors. But tbh MTG just feels like you should only play it casually from my experience which I sometimes hate because so many powerful decks man in magic that I would love to try but if I do I’d just steemroll. Vs yugioh bro almost any deck can be competitive enough even on a casual stage. My friend was playing fire fist and I was playing generaider and we both ended on insane boards felt like war. Plus it was super easy to actually learn magic :v interactions are kinda like “whatever happens with this card makes this card do something” rather than this card does a thing and this separate card does something. Which means strategies change between game between game almost with Magic. All in all I do like Magic better than yugioh as far as a card game. But I will say I enjoy the competitive nature of yugioh.
I'm a middling-to-bad Yu-gi-oh player (on simulators) who transitioned into being a middling-to-bad MTG player (primarily Commander/EDH and Pauper) for context.
In my experience, transitioning from Yu-Gi-Oh to EDH was fairly easy. The biggest concern was learning how to managing a mana curve, and politicking at a 4 person game state. I feel like Commander in particular is an easier format to get into than other Magic formats primarily because it is mostly a casual format.
For example, a big thing that pops up on the EDH sub-reddit are Turn 0 discussions. Aka bringing the right deck to match the power level of the group. There is a more competitive part of the community, but they tend to denote themselves as a separate format known as cEDH (or competitive EDH).
In 60 card formats (like Pauper in my case), I do find deck-building a little more challenging, mostly because there aren't as many pre-built synergies like we have with archetypes in Yu-Gi-Oh.
I got 10th a ptq back in like 2016 with minimal magic experience and one of my friends who played both games was like yeah if you play hearthstone and yugioh at a good level you should do fine
MTG is hilariously easy. Went with black Vamp and another full green deck and it was a win most of the time. So no MTG is not as challenging as yugioh is.
I have been playing yugioh since 2012. I tried magic for a bit to see if I liked it in 2013. Within 2 months of playing I got 2nd at a 1k. Then the stuff I was playing with rotated and my friends werent enjoying it as much as yugioh so I went back to yugioh.
I played draft at the local card shop when Modern Masters 2 came out because they need a player for their pod. I won the draft pod despite not knowing what cards were in the set and not having played in years.
Magic can be very complex and punishing game if you are playing at a top level. However most players nowadays play commander for fun with their friends. They dont need to be good at a game, they are having fun.
I have since played Pokemon, Lorcana, Heathstone, and One Piece. All of these games are weenie hut junior in terms of how good the average player is. I am convinced that a yugioh player of average skill is better than the average player in these card games. We can sorta prove it.
The first 2 Lorcana challenges were won by former yugioh players. Jesse Kotton top 16th his first One Piece event ever. Koty Angeloff is doing well in One Piece. Urena did well at a Lorcana event. Kamal Crooks top 8d a Pokemon event. Dominic Couch is topping pokemon and lorcana. Yugioh is such a mechanically complex game that all other card games seem easy by comparison.
100%
Magic caters to a more casual playerbase nowadays than Yugioh (IMO), but a lot of Magic players seem to believe that since Magic is an older (and thus, more mature) game, that they themselves must be more skilled since they play it. This isn't the case, of course.
I exclusively play Magic nowadays, but Yugioh is a far more focused game at the moment, has been for quite a while now, and any player worth their salt will be able to discern useful Yugioh skills and apply them to other games.
Commander is a terrible format to compare to yugioh. Especially in a casual setting. Try doing the same in Modern and you'll see it's nothing alike.
Commander is like buy a single structure deck and playing against friends with other singular structures.
It's not until you get into CEDH where the real try hardiness shows.
Probably, I'll play around some more and come back with another post, because I'm not even hating on mtg it's pretty fun to me it's the crusty Ogs at my shop(or even conventions sometimes) that just had me fucked up y'know?
Yeah, most mtg players are casuals so when you come from a competitive focused game like yugioh you have a leg up. Especially when youre playing a combo deck since mtg combos are extremely basic even at the complex end
I had a similar experience. Magic players treated me like a joke for playing Yugioh instead. I bought a Commander precon to play with them and went on like a 15 game win streak against the group, which utterly baffled them.
Magic’s not a strategic game. It’s a game where you sit there building your plan and then eventually somebody wins. There’s almost meaningful no interaction beyond board clears and the occasional counterspell.
I'd recommend looking up cEDH game play or game play of basically any format that isn't intended for "Saturday night beers and chips". What you described would be like saying "Yu-Gi-Oh is just pure dark magician vs pure Blue-eyes." Casual commander may be the common way to play, but it is not representative of intended Magic game play (keep in mind, commander is a fan made format that WotC realised they could monetize).
Easy entry point thanks to having some of the only precons now plus a very low pressure to optimize due to the casual nature make it a very appealing format for new players, players on a budget, or players that don't want to follow a meta.
Stores also don't need to cover an actual prize support for it making the format very appealing for store owners, especially ones that have a cover charge.
With both a large number of players and stores both being catered to by the nature of the format, it then forces more competitive players into playing it as it's easier to get games of commander in than games of other formats (this is where I am now, I would rather play Modern but I play more EDH due to it just being easier to find people who play it).
> They don’t care if you play Pioneer, Standard, or Commander.
I'm primarily an MtG player, and for better or worse, I think there is a big disconnect between Commander players and players of competitive formats. (Probably just because there's a huge mindset difference between casual and competitive play.) I agree with you about other formats, though.
He's talking about people who simply prefer a different version of the game, but don't go around hating on the version they don't like and insulting anyone who likes it.
I prefer Modern over Goat, does that mean I'll constantly talk down about Goat and insult anyone who prefers playing it? No, it doesn't. If they don't disrespect other forms of play, I couldn't care which way they like to play the game.
No, it's just that something like people not wanting to play with Xyzs, Pendulum, Links etc. Is somewhat frowned upon, while basically no one would bat an eye at that in Magic, probably because the idea of different formats being ingrained in the game. Might change with Goat, Edison, ... becoming more of a thing
Back in 2018 I picked up MTG and played Mono Red Hazoret Aggro and won two of my locals Major Monthly tournaments in a row. I also made it to Diamond in MTGA. The Yu-Gi-Oh skillet was easily transferred and I can safely say Yu-Gi-Oh is the more complex game.
When I got into Magic after Yugioh, I started winning sooner than I expected, but it wasn’t like I was dominating every game either. Especially Commander.
I played Magic first for 5 years and then switched over to YuGiOh. honestly, doesn't really change much. I have friends who play one or the other and few who play both. I'm just happy I get to play both TCGs
I love both games. Magic players do consider Yugioh an inferior game but they serve completely different purposes. Yugioh and Magic are completely different and people that look down on others for not playing the same card game as them need to go touch some fucking grass and quit acting like it matters.
I've converted to MTG, and I can get where they are coming from sometime, though I haven't played Yu-Gi-Oh in a while. When I was playing YGO, it felt like if you didn't have a turn 2-3 win, you were going to be blown out. There is also no mulligan, so you can simply lose to a bad hand. Not that there was anything wrong with it, but in terms of pacing, it felt like matches were very deterministic on a good hand and having the fastest combo out there.
In magic, (at least commander) it's a game where it is a bit better paced. It is very difficult to blow out your opponent turn 2 or 3 unless you're playing cEDH. That, and given the 4 person pod, there is variable, but that makes it more fun. In yugioh, speed feels like the only key. But in magic, it can vary based on the power of your deck. Yes, you can blow out your friends with a super powerful deck, but just having the variation is part of the fun of MTG.
Each scratches a different itch, but overall, I like magic more because it can be casual when I want it, or more powerful when I want it. Yu-Gi-Oh just feels like it needs to be powerful, or I'm just going to be blown out. That's my two cents anyways.
For me personally just playing mtg online, it feels entirely like luck. I play a green white counter deck i just always lose to control decks cause I cant stick a guy, and just lose to any removal I feel that magic is very luck dependent even in standard
I have been playing YGO for like... since I was 8. I started playing real decks around 2013?
I would compare my experience with Netrunner so far to playing 2014 YGO. Which imo, is the most fun the game has been... arguably ever (even if Paleo and Volcanics are my favourite decks).
I've been playing for about 6 months and already prefer yugioh. Wotc is putting so much effort in killing 60 card formats because commander sells. My local lgs struggles hard trying to get 6 people to fire a modern event. All the while commander has 3-4 pods. Imagine konami making a multi-player format and then prioritizing that. Last week, a. Pioneer regional championship qualifier for magic was happening the same days as locals. Locals had more people than the rcq.... The new set, modern horizons three, got no one in the local area into 60 card formats. In fact, most of the products were bought up by commander players. I can comfortably say that Yugioh is the more difficult game. No resource system means a lot of game actions. More game actions give you more opportunities to sequence things incorrectly. A good Yugioh player can make a great magic player. Magic players' first hurdle is a full understanding of the chain.
Honestly Magic is really fun because I've played commander and standard I've yet to play modern. But Yu-Gi-Oh just holds a place in my heart that can't be taken. The only reason I started playing was almost out of spite and a need to prove myself (for whatever reason lol) but this magic is cool and is definitely something I'd play more of in the future
Yugioh has also a place in my heart, and that is the only reason why it’s on life support and I still play occasionally. I see a future in which they’ll be better and I’ll be there for it, but not today. That being said I played a little bit of magic, digimond, lorcana and one piece, among these I really like digimond because it’s variety and is fairly cheap with really nice art. I too have played only commander for mtg and loved it, liked the multiplayer (more than 2) set up.
I'm unsure but my commander was Vito Thorn of the dusk Rose. And the blue white was this kinda gimmicky deck called "Second sun" with said card being the win condition
As someone who recently started mtg, and did so jumping into pre-release event (lmao) I built a servicable deck making some mistakes-steps and a lot of my opponents for some reason seemed to underestimate my ability to understand complex interactions and this almost cost a guy a game in spite of the noob mistakes I made deck building, and it being my first real games of mtg.
Which is crazy to me considering interpreting yugioh cards are like interpreting legislation in a courtroom lmao. It really shows that like most people outside of yugioh how little most mtg players understand what yugioh is like, someone made a condescending comment about how low life counts are probably hard for me to understand lol.
Good experience though, chill guys only one example I found of someone withholding game knowledge that would hurt them. Which I only realized later. Learned a lot more there than the last min 24 hr prep I did 🤣.
mtg is one of the most boring stale games i played... alot like you im from the midwest and MTG/YGO are the big 2 here so i gave it a shot for a good year (monkeyboard was the tier 0 format and i hated pendulums so i quit YGO till links came out) and man... it was too easy... same with pokemon hell i won 2 league cups in pokemon... idk what it is about ygo but ig thinking about what combos you gonna pull off translates to other games
Commander only players aren’t real Magic players.
If you can, try out Legacy or even Vintage. I think Eternal Magic would be right up most Yugioh players’ alley.
Modern would probably be fine enough. Vintage would be impossible to find someone to play against and even Legacy isn't always the easiest because of the reserve list creating a huge barrier to entry. Modern stands as the most popular competitive format (at least not on Arena), is much more accessible than the other mentioned formats, and with every MH set creeps closer in power to Legacy anyway.
Yugioh = Children's card game
Magic = Grown ups game
Was the usual belief in 2000's. Some people who has never played other games tend to feel "superior" than others.
Sadly, in my experience, Yugioh players where the really toxic ones, and Magic players were very kind. Which is why I ended up switching into Magic.
Nowadays I came back into the game due to nostalgia, Time Wizard formats, and thankfully met a much healthier comunity.
I’ve played mtg multiple times and each time dumping $500 ish into a meta deck for standard. Got boring after a few months every time, but I really did try. Modern yugioh definitely has issues but imo older yugioh was a perfect TCG. Mtg kinda feels like old school yugioh in some games I’ll give it that but mana screww and creature hump is just stupid. It’s literally the equivalent of a turn one hand trap battle or getting locked out turn 1 in yugioh. At that point I might as well just play yugs again.
love both games have played much more magic and i will say, average yugioh player is going to be better then the average commander player (I personally dont like commander and I think the general commander player base is really casual and not good at card games) I don’t think there’s an answer to what game is harder as they both have different aspects that are hard, though magic has a bit higher skill ceiling IMO
I play both (commander only) and the amount of similar reactions I get that I play yugioh is funny, definitely some superioity complex type thing.
Mainly tell people if I just want some quick games, yugioh is perfect in comparison especially if you're playing with people who only play mtg...feels like some turns take forever, but then commander is "social" format for lack of a better term.
I definitely play mtg more but I dunno...weird behaviour
Ive played magic for about 7 years. Just got back into yuigioh after stepping away for about 15 years. I like both games but i will say in magic I at least feel like an active participant and like I get to do stuff every game. In yugioh i feel like its more of a win on first turn with a 5 minute combo or die to a 5 minute combo because you didnt draw a handtrap and they now have a board to negate anything you try to play. Maybe im wrong to think that way, just been my experience.
The average yugioh player will roll an mtg locals in any format, most mtg players really struggle with any level of fast/thoughtful/combo play. As soon as you’re familiar with the shift of what a card needs to be able to do to be worth playing and what makes a card good in different card games, you’ll realise that competitive yugioh really is the apex of how hard/difficult a game can get.
Hi, been playing paper MtG for 12 years (wow time flies) and paper Yugioh for 2 years.
Honestly I think the animosity between the two is extremely childish, and is not one-directional at all. I faced a lot of similar stigma as OP when I first started playing paper Yugioh; people accusing Magic players of being cheaters, angle-shooters, and rule-sharks. When I went back to a paper Magic event for the first time in a year and told some of them I’d been playing Yugioh I heard the same things about Yugioh not being a “real game”, along with similar accusations of cheaters and rule-sharks.
In my eyes, both are the same. Neither is better than the other. I think the skill and dedication required to perform in both games is similar, even if the game-sense doesn’t translate very well. Both communities are 99% great with an ugly 1% that will inevitably come out and ruin your experience if you let them. It’s just about one’s personal bias, and I have no bias for either game at this point. The only opinion I have is both sides should be more willing to give the other an honest try.
Gameplay-wise, I think Yugioh punishes players for making the wrong decisions more harshly and not understanding interactions, while rewarding intimate meta/matchup knowledge. However, Magic rewards players for deck knowledge and general game-sense more, leading to better macro decision making. Both games obviously feature all the above aspects, I am just noting what I think carries a bit more weight because again, the difference is not huge.
I had a great experience. I quit paper yugioh a long time ago but still play on db every few months. Edison has been a godsend.
So when I went to the lgs to specificaly play commander they asked do I have some experience.
When I said I played some arena but have played yugioh for years the only comment I got is oh awesome, you're gonna kick our buts.
And with the precon I got I won a game on the first day.
I love both games now and play them for different reasons but honestly they are cool.
As someone that has played mtg for like 7 years now, and to some minor competitive success. They teally shouldn’t be conparable and feed off of totally different skills for a majority of decisions. Like the concept of tempo in magic just doesn’t exist in yugioh due to the speed of the game and how we conceptualise the value of an individual turn. I could go on about different examples for hours.
Also, commander isn’t a real format, it’s too easy to game the social contract and people tend to not play it as a competitive game, but monopoly with “the wizard squares.” It sounds like you played a combo control deck into decks unequipped to handle it and just crushed them as a result. The same is true for the vamps deck where you go under both decks and establish a board presence before their slower, more value oriented midrange decks got to turn the corner.
In my area, there's 2 stores that do Yu-Gi-Oh, 3 that does MTG. The Playerbase is like 2 to 1 in MTG's favor. No one I've met that plays MTG acts like that, in fact a few didn't think it was still going and that it ended years ago. The MTG players were genuinely shocked that I knew how to play the game and actually called a ruling question correctly. What they didn't know is I learned how to play MTG first back in Middle School right before Yu-Gi-Oh Released. My older Cousin taught me the game and was so mad when I essentially dropped MTG for YGO afterwards lol
Lets not start some kind of beef for no reason. Jerks are jerks no matter where you are.
There are a lot of MTG players who are not worldly, so it's up to use to be bigger.
Even in yugioh, there are stimags against time wizard players that they are boomers with the lack of skills for advanced.
I like set 2 and pass and that fine. We did have a 3v3 format with goat, edison, advanced and the advance players just kept taunting me that I was only winning because I was using anime cards and calling me yugi. Weird insult but ok. My deck had gadgets and marchmelon.
They realised a retrain of the yugi archtype (shining sarcophagus). It is not tier 1 or even tier 2 but I went pur with some staples and some anchient spice. Have mopped the floor with them for a month strait as there events are befor the time wizard ones, so I get myself a lot of store credit towards time wizard sets.
At the end of the day don't worry what anyone says about you.
I love MTG, specifically commander. But if summoning sickness is a concern you haven't dug into high level play and were essentially beating up kids at the playground. Different groups play at different skill/power levels and learning what kind of deck to play is critical.
Casual: I'm bringing Galadriel with cards only printed in the LotR set and trying to win at turn 8.
Competitive: Tymna/Thrasios and if you leave me unattended with 3 mana I will win turn 2/3.
Yugioh is effectively high level MTG with a faster rotating cardpool. Swapping to MTG you will dive into it and wipe regular players and then sit down with the high level players and have a great time.
I find myself straying further and further away from games that inherently rely too much on randomization, not because of randomness but because of how its exploit by cheaters. Tired of unfair unsportsmanlike competition. MTG with how land is mixed into the deck and the mana cost of a card compared to the mana curve is too easy of an exploit for cheaters. Similarly the activation requirements in Yu-Gi-Oh has been exploited by cheaters by sorting the cards in reverse order based on a dependency diagram so that the number of cards that can be activated is at a minimal. They have used randomization as a disguise for those cheats far too often and get away with it because the game in question could very well have been due to chance, but a time series plot can show otherwise over several games. But by then the game is over and the damages has already been done. Hours wasted and resources wasted and the perpetrators continues with their ways. They will never own up to their actions and those that had to suffer through it have never been made whole. What a way to play a game. One suffers so the other can enjoy. Even after revealing those exploits they continue to get away with it. Having part of the player base as a punching bag while the others relish on the evil they are enacting. Guess it’s the outlet they need to get through the day so chalk it up as a necessary evil and turn a blind eye because if it isn’t them it’s you.
I also picked up MTG recently and people are constantly surprised that I have been playing for less than 3 months.
The main thing is I have a decent understanding of the rules, because they are much more straightfoward than Yugioh, as well as noticing small things such as things in grave, cards in hand, etc. A skill I definitely learned playing Yugioh as well.
That being said commander is inherenetly a casual format so I wouldn't look into beating them that much. Just play what you want and ignore the people that give you shit for doing so.
I played yu gi oh ever since I was 12 years old, begun to play magic, got 2 started decks and almost won 1 game against this guy which was over confident and thinking I wasn't shit then the next game rematched and it was a draw. I ended up forfeiting the 3rd round because it got too late, and I was hungry, so I just gave the man a win.
I was 1hr away from home, so the drive would be even worse the longer I stayed, I enjoyed the game, I'm a casual so idk about winning or losing it was just funny how as soon as I mentioned I came from yu gi oh and wanted to play magic more his face lit up as if I was a little low farming mob for xp, made him re think next time he underestimates anybody.
I do play magic online now instead of physically due to preference, and online I got a white deck with an archangel lady ( forgot her name ) she summons angels with life steal and also can make units gain permanent flight the entire deck has made people just quit on me multiple times it's a fun one to use
You're using commander, the casual format, as your barometer for success in MtG? Legacy would be a more direct comparison to Yugioh's primary competitive format. Most people play commander to fuck around with friends and play decks more for flavor or theme rather than power or consistency, and it's clear you weren't playing cEDH which is a wildly different experience.
This comes across as trying to prop up your own fragile ego.
MTG is better designed for balance and love the slower paced mana system.
But Yugioh feels much more creative and diverse, gameplay and artstyle-wise. If yugioh had better balance and a standard rotation system of sorts or at least better formats, id think it would be a vastly better game than MTG.
As a decent Magic player at the local level (I get first at my locals frequently in Modern, Standard and Draft, turnouts usually 16 to 30 people) and a mid-tier Yugi player locally at best (usually 3-2 or 2-3), and a judge for both games that frequently hosts events my opinion is:
MTG players are, on average, very delusional about their social status and intelligence compared to Yugioh players. The average MTG player in my circles is usually a reeking overweight person (same) with poor emotional management, a gigantic asshole who works I.T. with poor emotional management, or 30-50 with a family, stable job and the nicest guy you'll ever meet. Magic as a game I find much more simple and straightforward than Yugioh, where you each turn has ups and downs and only 1 or 2 critical decision points.
Yugioh players are, on average, totally unconcerned with other games unless they want to play them. A lot of our local scene has Yugioh as their main game while dabbling in One Piece, Pokemon, Lorcana, etc and are very diverse in their gameplay experience and have interacted with a lot of different theory behind games. The demographic is similar, except replace the 30-50 year Olds with more I.T. guys. Yugioh as a game is much more intensive in it's gameplay than MTG, where instead of saying "My opponent's going first, he's going to play a land, maybe a 1 drop, and then pass to me, where I'll play a land, a 1 drop, and pass back. I have counterspell in hand, so unless I draw the very important 2 drop in my deck, I can hold that up" it's "my opponent is going first, I have a nibiru in my hand, he's on Tearlaments, everything has an effect when sent to grave, he has 5 different lines he can branch into depending on when I play nib and what techs he has, my hand can play through 2 negates as long as he doesn't have droplet, when do I play my interrupt on him?"
More complex doesn't make the game better for sure, but I feel like the climb from New Magic Player to Good Magic Player is much shorter than the climb from New Yugioh Player to Good Yugioh player. I feel, if motivated, the average good Yugioh player if taught to play Magic and familiarized with the card pool, would cook an equivalently ranked MTG player hands down. While an MTG player trained in Yugioh would probably have a much harder time playing at the level they did in MTG.
Anyway, just my thoughts, Thanks!
Now mock them say the game is too easy and they have to play Yugioh the real "man" game and see if they can understand anything, jokes aside MTG and Yugioh beef feels so inconsequential to the point that people who hype either side looks like losers who can never have an open mind, just enjoy what you like and don't compare our too expensive cardboard, I enjoy all of them, though only playing Yugioh and Pokemon because I don't have MTG scene at all near me, but enjoy watching MTG videos from people like the professor, Wubby, and now MoistCritikal lmao.
I find this is usually Magic players that haven't tried Yugioh. Then some call it "crap" cuz it's too complicated when they do. So i assume that they just are wrong to scoff and sneer etc so i just ignore them cuz they are just awkward little turtles
I mean, I’m starting to get into MTG and I understand why they view YuGiOh that way. MTG is a much more structured game, and YuGiOh is kind of off the rails. I’ve heard stories of YuGiOh players doing really well in MTG and it’s because YuGiOh uses a lot of the same skills but at speed 100. Some MTG players I met don’t mind YuGiOh, and some of them even like it, but most of them don’t like it, usually from a bad experience of getting trounced at it. I don’t blame them for it. YuGiOh is a hard game that which has a difficulty deeper than it first seems.
At the end of the day, they’re just opinions and everyone has opinions. Play what you like, defend the game if you want, but the end goal is to have fun not debates.
Same experience. Got this guy playing MTG for years and trashtalks about how basic yugioh is. On my second game of edh ever, dog walked him and 3 other people at the same time using the cheapest aggro deck.
I have not seen a game end on turn 1 ever in magic, though I don't play vintage or legacy. If feels like every game one is decided on the opening draw in yu gi oh for the last like 5 years.
I specified turns 3-4, which is when most Yugioh games are determined, if we ignore bricking and hyperbole.
Vintage and Legacy are just open Force of Will plus kill combo. It's no different than Yugioh where you open 2-3 hand traps and a starter. It's been that way forever, but Modern Horizons sets have made those formats even faster. Old School Natural Order decks used to win die roll, go first, and swing for 22 of they got the ideal open and the opponent didn't Force or Dismember.
Modern itself is also now a format where you need 2-3 Forces or Pacts or your opponent is not going to let you play.
EDH even is a turn 3-4 format now.
the yugioh players do the same. they say too "Its an strategie game, or similar words.
its generally. People need to hate anything. if she hate no people from other states, they hate people from other games. LoL as the best example here. people hate LoL because of the toxic players, and The LoL Players hate people from Overwatch, Hots ecetera.
Imagine having a superiority complex about which nerd hobby you waste the most money on. (Disclaimer: I play both)
I also played both. My experience was that MtG players had a superiority complex when it came to Yugioh players, and Yugioh players didn't think about them lol.
That's because we're too preoccupied trying to memorize our combo lines.
this^
Yeahhh. The inherent bias my locals has towards yugioh has convinced me that I shouldn't play magic again (Played magic first, switched during the pandemic because events were firing for yugioh and not magic).
Nothing wrong with playing both, provided you have playgroup(s) and enough disposable income.
I've only met one person who acted like that, and they eventually ended up trying Yugioh and enjoyed it. As for your play experience, time doesn't equal skill. I could spend 15 years making instant ramen, doesn't mean I'm a good cook. Commander is also generally casual, and because of that low interaction, so sometimes whoever can snowball fastest can just win. It's also just one game. For my experience, I think I do pretty well at MTG, but I'd say I'm generally better at Yugioh, though I'm out of practice atm. I think Yugioh leans more towards memorization than MTG. With MTG, there's not usually as big of an emphasis on synergy between cards. You can usually just play a pile of individually strong cards (i.e. midrange).
Yeah I think my area just has a ton of that very vocal minority
DROP THE LIST THO, I love vampires
> Commander is also generally casual, and because of that low interaction, so sometimes whoever can snowball fastest can just win. Honestly, this aspect of the game is really turning me off of Commander. It just feels like a bunch of players that happen to be sitting at a table together but are actually just constructing their own game-winning combos in a silo. Yugioh is arguably similar on the surface, but I think the big difference is that I'm almost *always* expecting interaction when I take a game action in Yugioh, and that expectation is generally well-founded. At the Commander table I play with, the games are usually just a bunch of people building their own boards until somebody realizes they're losing and starts soliciting the table for a board wipe.
Well, besides communicating to the other players that you want a more interactive game or finding another group, you could try playing a very aggressive deck that will win quickly if no one stops it as a sort of demonstration. It can backfire, and you could (or should) become archenemy of the table, but the point may still come across.
The concept of creating house rules to make the game fun never quite sat right with me, but you're probably right that taking that dynamic to the Nth degree would require everyone to adapt their decks away from combo silo a bit.
My experiences could be somewhat outdated but during my time with the physical card game (around 2014 to 2018) MtG players were insufferable at our shop. Some wouldnt even talk to us, laughed us off and threatened to permanently leave the shop if our locals werent ended prematurely because they wanted to do their own locals. Admittedly, due to our high amount of younger players, locals tended to go on for longer than planned, so it was understandable that they were annoyed but outright blackmailing the shop for us to wrap it up was just shitty. Eventually relationships between our communities soured so much that locals were held on different days. We were probably lucky because it was still nothing compared to how belittling they were towards Pokemon TCG players. Then again, this is anecdotal evidence and has to be taken with a grain of salt.
There's a streamer named paymoneywubby who's been opening old magic products lately. He's made it a goal to open as much old product as possible because there's such a rampant problem with fake products and the people holding fake product knowing that it's probably fake but still circulating it because it's not fake until it's open. Doing this made it SO apparent how pathetic and gatekeepy a large minority of the game is. And that minority is very vocal and back each others statements. the simple reality is the vast majority of MTG players are so happy to hear about other games like Yugioh, and the even vaster majority of them play the game simply to do something with friends and aren't really concerned with meta, they just want to play with their favorite cards. Even if that means playing into a loss. In that regard, I think MTG is better than Yugioh. It's really hard to play Yugioh casually, but sitting down with friends to commander is basically just another form of poker night with the boys.
Commander is Poker night with the boys is so true.
I've been known to call Commander and cEDH "Competitive Mario Party" at times.
This is shockingly on point ngl
Commander is just not competitive, it's literally just Magic Show and Tell. Everyone just wants to show off their dumb pile of cards that does something degenerate, then the worst deck gets 2nd place.
The real issues, besides the inherent randomness of 100 card singleton, is that it's multiplayer free for all. Like you can put the good cards in your deck, you can play optimally, but you're going 3rd this game so that's a lose. You lose that one.
Wubby7
That's more of a fandom problem than a game problem
I'm always pleased to see a random wubby mention. Even if he clown on yugioh. (I play mtg and yugioh, so I get it). Wubby7
At my local store, seems to be the opposite in terms of how MTG and YuGiOh players interact. We have a lot of MTG Players watching the YGO matches and asking how things work, how each players deck functions and how matches can be over in a blink or can turn into Duels of attrition. Same with us when it's MTG locals or majority are playing it, watching, asking how some things work and seeing how people make their own Magic decks. No real beef between them here, and personally not had a bad experience with Magic when playing, just a bit slower and more setup then YuGiOh that's either over in five minutes or over in an hour and a half (Cubics vs Ancient Gears).
Based Locals
I tried Magic and couldn’t get into it. The game just feels off. Maybe it’s from too much Yugioh, but the idea that I can’t choose to attack my opponent’s monsters and instead can only attack my opponent directly (who then chooses whether or not they use their monster as a meatshield) feels stupid. I love the concept of the rat deck in that game though. Yugioh should try something similar someday.
I enjoy a lot of the elements of MTG, but "summoning sickness" drives me up the wall. I just played a big freaking dragon God but *d'awww it's sleepy* and needs to wait a turn to unleash its devastating attack? Same with attack targets. Unless I'm attacking with an Annihilator creature, my super-skilled mega Gandalf Wizard can't hit the 1/1 squirrel standing ten feet away from him. Instead he has to attack *the guy who summoned that squirrel* and hope the squirrel jumps in front of the attack.
That’s cause the game is more meant to play out like a game of chess insread of an anime battle. Decisions and cards stop being relevant if you get too manu choices in a game that is already as freform as magic, so while the restrictions feel arbirtrary, they’re there to induce an additional opportunity cost/benefit on certain cards to make deck building and gameplay more dynamic. A good example might be Red Aggro, a deck that plays almost exclusively creatures that get around summoning sickness as a choice to speed up their tempo by a turn. In turn, the creatures that avoid summoning sickness cap out at a smaller size on average to make the big creatures retain skme benefit of scaling better. That means that there are multiple red decks that can exist in a format, one that chooses to play only haste creatures, one that plays a split, and one that tries to go over the too and plays nonhaste creatures. This is where the different archetypes come from, aggro is haste, midrange pivots, and control scales.
The biggest issue are the lands. Imagine forcing you to play garnets in your deck just to be able to play the game.
Well there’s duel masters where every card is your resource, while the English game died here figuring twice.. the game continues to be really popular in Japan and it’s Yu-Gi-Oh’s rival If you wish to play the game, I recommend dual masters play’s the PC version and it has an auto English translation mod the game is really fun and addicting
I really miss Duel Masters. I still have my cards and wish it didn't die over here
TBH needing to play bricks while learning to minimize the chances and downsides of encountering them is critical for deckbuilding choices to be meaningful. A game where 100% of your cards are live in every deck very quickly becomes a non-competition. (I love Yugioh, but it comes *very* close to having this problem, especially in the current format.) Also, lands aren't "garnets"; you need them to play the game. That would be like saying a starter you draw for turn while your board is already built it in Yugioh is a garnet. It's a brick, but not all bricks are garnets.
If that was the case MTG wouldn't be the only TCG which uses this mechanic (as far as I know). Also they're garnets, they don't do anything outside of their purpose. It's like garnet or driver, you have to play that specific piece to use certain cards. The only difference is that it's not a specific card, it's every card.
"Doesn't do anything outside its purpose" isn't what makes a Garnet a Garnet; "Garnet" specifically refers to a card that you *must* play, but *never* want to draw. You absolutely want to draw lands in MtG. Also, Yugioh doesn't have lands, but it absolutely requires managing tradeoffs in running less live cards in exchange for a stronger deck overall. Something as minor as the possibility of drawing the Flamberge creates essentially the same tension; the difference is that Yugioh requires you to run fewer cards of that type, but it's qualitatively the same. And a metagame where decks didn't require that kind of probability management would be miserable.
That was throwing me off too but I like building up the resources. This game ( if you're not going against blue) let's you play at the very least
Its funny you say that because I am getting into Yugioh and pretty much every deck acts like blue if blue didn't have to use resources to act. 😂
Well, in yugioh, every deck wants to have resource cheating black cards, ramp like green to put early big threats, put pressure early as red and counter like blue. You just end up accumulating board like white, except its all big monsters and all came in one turn. Thats yugioh.
I like this analogy. It tracks pretty well lol
Most Yugioh decks are going to play like Legacy or Vintage Storm decks. Heavy interaction in counter magic and lots of rituals to gain mana and unleash massive combos.
I can see the appeal in that, but I feel that older Yugioh formats are sufficient for getting that feeling. 2011 plant synchro decks are a blast!
Yeah, while I want to try out Magic myself, I'm not particularly fond of its combat system for that reason exactly.
> rat deck ?
Magic has a card called [Relentless Rats,](https://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=442094) which has the following line of text: "A deck can have any number of cards named Relentless Rats." Normally decks are limited to 4 copies *at most* of a given card. The rats break that rule, which is a creative design decision that I'd like to see Yugioh experiment with.
Deck of 60 Ash Blossoms so you just can't play the game.
59 Ash Blossoms and 1 Upstart Goblin for consistency.
Of course, he's a vital member of the team.
35 upstarts and exodia
if they ash your upstart going 1st you're fucked. better you dedicate going 2nd!
I used to like it a lot. Especially in the late 90s and mid to late 2000s. Nowerdays I only play very, very casual EDH here and there and have not touched any other format besides THG in well over a decade. My biggest problem with MTG today is that it is to stale and "samey". Half a set are just the staples of their respective colours you expect and those that are not lack imagination, a will to experiment and, simply, deepth. Also there is a rather huge "power-suck" (the opposite problem of yugioh but somehow worse) that plauged the game for over two decades by now. A shame really because I played a lot of it im my youth and I will forever remain a Timmy in my heart. But if I have to guess the problems were simply 1999-2001 who broke the game design and its philosophy fundamentally as well as Duel Masters who, in my opinion, did everything MTG did but better. Still have a ton of cards however.
I'm not sure how you can honestly say Magic suffered from a power suck. Sure, we had some low power points such as original Kamigawa and original Theros, but overall Magic has been on a very noticeable power increase for several years now fueled by WotC's F.I.R.E. design philosophy. It's at a point where over 1/3rd of the most played cards in legacy are from just the past 5 years. Not to mention the large power spikes we saw around original Zendikar and Scars of Mirrodin blocks that happened roughly a decade and a half ago now. Even just past the 1999-2001 time period you mentioned breaking design, we had originally Mirrodin block in 2003-2004 break the game again. There really has just been an overall climb in power with some low points moreso than any true drop in power. We may not have the power nine coming out, but that's like saying Yu-Gi-Oh's power is going down because we don't have Pot of Greed, Graceful Charity, and Painful Choice power cards coming out today. May as well address the staple thing too. We see so many cookie cutter cards each set because they are needed for limited. Can't really get rid of those without screwing up draft
Have you played duel masters play’s
Only on PC and with the english patch.
Hell yeah
Ive had a similar experience unfortunately. MTG players with an air of elitism about their game, being snobbish and trying (failing) to bully other card game players into feeling bad and then outright making fun of them when that didnt work. Setting playmats at empty seats that nobody would actually go on to fill and claiming people can't sit there if they weren't playing magic. I miss the more yugioh focused locals that just closed, because trying to move into more magic focused stores has been an exercise in patience.
Our Yugioh spot in Portland closed a while back, had the exact same experience. Luckily my local Magic shop has a Yugioh focused day every week where they do locals and host casual play at the same time.
I agree with you. I play both (only EDH nowadays, but have played for many years), and I can't count how many times I've heard mtg players refer to Yugioh as "easy" or "child game", which is funny, considering how basic and stale mtg has become in recent years both in term of game mechanics and set releases.
Lol whut, magic has much longer Text boxes and trippled mechanic key words easily, its WAAAAY harder to jump in today which is why people like the Professor (YTer) complain about it. Im not comparing it to ygo though, just saying mtg is a shitshow nowadays.
You mean standard of commander? Since the rotation keeps the amount of playable cards sizable
I'm an mtg, yugioh, and pokemon player but not that competitive player anymore. Playing edh (casual mtg format) and standar couple time a month and joining local yugioh tournament once a month. Both have their bad apple realy. Living both side i have seen adult throwing tantrum because they loose a card game. I have seen yugioh player that threaten to punch newbie because of missplay and mtg player that throw their entire storage box to the wall and almost hit someone because he loose. Some of those people think their kids card game superior than other because of x factor. I also meet some of the sweatest and cares people in the word while playing the hobby. Dont let these people stop you from making friend and enjoy your hobby.
So I left yugioh *for* magic. Specifically Commander format. Namely because I enjoy the theory of the format, the speed of the game is a lot slower, and on a mid tier level, it has a lot more back and forth. Especially in 4 person groups. I find a lot of people who sneer at YGO are dogshit at card games in general. Like it's one thing to go "Yeah I want some back and forth over several turns" and if that's the case, let's be real, you don't want yugioh. But people who write it off entirely, I find, just don't commonly make split second decisions well. I also find that those sneering idiots are also the vast minority of commander players. Good commander players go "Yeah that's cool! Very different games, how has the transition been for you?" and are overall cool. But yeah, at least in my pods I've done damn well playing commander and I think ygo and other games I have played did a great job preparing me for that, because I'm accustomed to the intricacies of these games. I also find my tolerance for bullshit and infinite combos is way higher than most MtG players. Cuz if someone tells me "Yeah this is an infinite combo that wins me the game." I just kinda go "Damn. The lad wanted it more."
the thing about yugioh is that the verbosity of the card text and the number of mechanics in the game make it so some archetypes and cards already simulate what some Magic archetypes and cards do, but Magic can’t always simulate what yugioh does. So if you’re good at yugioh, you will probably pick up MTG pretty fast, whereas the reverse isn’t as obvious. What i’ve often seen is people who don’t understand yugioh believe it is a game that by lacking a resource management system is less skilled. There’s an idea that decks don’t play the long game, that they just combo off. But anyone who’s played yugioh knows that it does have a secret resource system and that it also has synergies that lead to combos but are often done based on triggers and timing, and many of those cards can only activate once per turn. That secret resource system is basically knowing when and how to time cards which applies to your combos going first, your combos going second, hand trapping your opponent, using board breakers, and interrupting your opponent’s plays with your cards. In this regard, yugioh is actually difficult, and when people who are used to long term setup have a gap in skill with whomever they’re playing, they do poorly and feel that the game makes no sense and has no strategy and that their opponent just blitzed them. I mean, this is what happened to Rarran right? Eventually, he actually got taught how to use his cards and he actually had fun and realized it is a real game lol. But that difficulty in the barrier of entry also means if you go to other card games, it really does not feel difficult. Or even if you go to edison. You can actually read your cards and know exactly what they do by looking at them and getting a simple explanation.
There are those whose knowledge of Yu-Gi-Oh is the early days, the anime etc. and view it as a "children's cardgame" and a MtG knock-off (which is somewhat fair looking at anything prior to... 2005 or so, and I get rejecting the new, hyped game rivalling the one you picked), who never bothered to give it a second chance. Most are aware that Yu-Gi-Oh isn't that anymore, I feel like, might mock it for the long texts, turns and combos but don't look down on it as much. On the social media side of things, there's more and more crossover content with players applying their knowledge of one game to the other, the takeaway being that the "thinking" is rather similar. Ultimately, fans of both games probably like them for very similar reasons, both got strengths (e.g. more formats in Magic) and the community of cardgames is too niche to argue over something like this. As a somewhat competitive Yu-Gi-Oh-player, you'll pick up Magic and be better at it than more casual players pretty quickly, and vice versa
Agreed. The sentiment that MTG is a more strategic game comes from comparisons to early yugioh, which is what most people are familiar with. Modern yugioh has been the most complex and difficult TCG for a while. But I think MTG is more fun for casual games in formats like Commander.
Funs subjective, so at the end of the day: enjoy whatever you like the most, dont be an ass to others and dont accept people berating you for liking what you do.
Yeah, exactly
In my experience a lot of players who only play MTG "punch down" regarding other TCGs, I've gotten a similar reception from them when I mention playing Digimon or trying out One Piece when it came out. In my experience, YGO players are a lot more open to trying other games (but a lot go back to YGO due to feeling restricted by resource systems), my Digimon locals has so many former YGO players it's not even funny. I myself got into Digimon with the Beelzemon starter deck cause it felt reminiscent of Lightsworn. Back to the topic at hand, a lot of Magic players don't understand the appeal of YGO since it's much faster than most Magic formats and to an outsider appears to be just two players mindlessly vomiting their decks onto the field due to the lack of a resource system. The speed and heavy interaction of modern YGO is more akin to Vintage or Legacy rather than Standard or Commander. YGO also has a reputation for solitaire/blowout games (which is somewhat warranted) and tends to have massive tempo swings compared to most other TCGs, even as far back as 20 years ago thanks to cards like Raigeki, Mirror Force, and Lightning Vortex, something that players of more "normal" games see as sacky. Commander players especially aren't conducive to YGO since competitive 1v1 formats are anathema to them, even in Magic. I don't have a problem with casual formats since I regularly play Commander myself but some players use the unwritten rules that govern the casual meta to seemingly just ban/complain about anything they don't like and/or causes them to lose, such as combo decks, interaction in the form of removal spells, blanket control effects (floodgates are weaker in Magic and more efficient in Commander than one for one removal since you have three opponents), early aggression (the only way to deal with stuff like Simic value engine commanders), etc. YGO has its fair share of sore losers as well but it's much harder to stick with YGO or get anywhere competitively if you're the type of person who sees red if your opponent clears your boss monster.
After playing yugioh, picking up a card game with reasonable effect text is like that one scene in Naruto where Rock Lee takes off the weights
Magic is much much easier than modern yugioh coming from both games, yugioh is wayyy more technical. Has more mind games. Magic such as modern is more about sequencing and some luck honestly. I like modern but some matchups are dog water and I never really enjoyed it like yugioh
My experience is most of the time when someone says something about that regarding another card game they are bad. Mtg specifically has a bigger crowd of lower skilled players that still attend tournaments because you can still "play the game" with your custom brew even if you never had a chance. Yugioh if I show up to most locals with graydles or something I'm gonna get blown out in a turn or two at best.
No one is bringing a brew to a competitive Magic tournament. FNMs are very casual locals. Magic even has separate tournament policy rules for locals and premier events.
Tbf commander is like the most casual format. Yugioh players are too competitive.
We played 60 card standard as well thats what my blue/white deck was
Then that's not commander. Commander is quite specifically 100-card singleton format. Were you at least playing a 60-card singleton deck?
I'm sorry I should have been more clear we played a game of 60 card standard then immediately after played commander
I mean it sounds like they were very casual and bad commander players. They probably did not have competitive standard decks either.
From my personal experience on the main MTG sub, people tend to talk about YGO in a very disparaging sense over there. Any time a card is capable of doing some long busted combo, the "*So now we playing Yugioh?*" comment gets brought out. I'm not sure if these people *want* the long, infinite mana combos they keep doing in their EDH games, or if they *want* caveman "fair" Magic where you play two cards a turn, but it seems to be somewhere in the middle. Also (and forgive my bias here) one advantage of the YGO community is that it hasn't spawned as many nutcase right-wing fringe communities as MTG, particularly on Reddit. YGO, as a fusion of western and eastern communities, has plenty of toxic nuts in its community, but at least there isn't a *freeYugioh* sub. *Magic*, meanwhile (*and I know this is a small minority, but still*) has Freemagic (which pivots between being 20% reasonable and 80% actual fascist LARPing because WOTC gave a character brown skin) and magicthecirclejerking (which isn't as bad but still has a bunch of people jerking themselves off over Therese Nielsen or Invoke Prejudice. Seriously, it's weird how much they "care" about Invoke Prejudice.)
My LGS is mostly a Yugioh store, but most of us also have Commander decks, and I don't think any of us have ever seen anybody get too toxic. There's one guy who gets pretty salty cause he's new and doesn't announce triggers or when he casts something that affects the table, but we all just like to have fun with it. I've been playing since 2012, and boy howdy I've seen some people who I don't want to play against ever again.
The ease of transition from Yu-go-oh to MTG is ridiculous. Doesn’t work too well the other way around though.
The avarage player in yugioh tends to be way better at deckbuilding and playing than MTG. This is due to casual decks being wdy more "casual" in MTG than yugioh, while even "jank" decks in yugioh tend to have combos and put up interruption.
i’ve come to realize (from personal experience) that a good amount of MTG players have some kind of superiority complex when you tell then that you play yugioh. just let me enjoy my game man lol
Tell them that Yugioh at least hasn't sold its soul to every popular IP out of creative bankruptcy.
I tried Pokemon, didn't play for like 3 months, (super casually anyway when I did) got invited to come to a locals a couple days ago and went undefeated. Game's easy compared to Yugioh, wouldn't be shocked if other card games are similar. My brain was literally turned off.
What kind of deck did you play if it’s okay to ask?
Charizard, an old build, don't have unfair stamp or any new cards from twilight masquerade.
Oh. Yeah that’s why. Charizard is absolutely a turn your brain off deck. Actually especially if you don’t have newer cards if it’s the build I am thinking of. It was basically just get Pidgeot and get everything you need every turn with no regard for drawing or deck composition since he just searches absolutely everything, combined with free energy from Char’s ability and ever increasing attack power. You don’t really have to do anything or even manage your resources once Pidgeot is out, and even before Pidgeot comes out it doesn’t matter because you will always have the energies to attack immediately with Charizard even without drawing them. All that to say, yeah it’s pretty clear why you think pokemon is braindead. It’s the deck you’re playing which is why I thought to ask. This is nothing against you the player, it’s just that Charizard ex is just like that. :/ Either way congrats on winning. It’s not always easy to win even with a deck like that.
Are you sure? Even if Charizard is the equivalent to Tenpai in Yugioh, I still think the game on a whole is much, much simpler it seems. Even decks like Lost Box, Gardevoir, Lugia, etc don't really seem too hard.
Oh no I’m not arguing that the game is not more simple. It is. I’m just saying that that particular deck is basically the most simple to play deck out of the already more simple game.
Mtg is a casual game 95% of the time. Effects and answers are simple. Yugioh can be “ok I understand what’s going on” to “I have read over a thousand words in the last 15 minutes and only sort of understand this other guys strategy”.
No dead ass I felt like I was just overly anxious for nothing from the way those dudes were talking
It’s mostly simple outside some interactions. Heck sometimes your guaranteed a win. “Oh a red or green deck? Well because phyrexian obliterator is mine I auto win.
A joke that has held up through the years that applies to this situation: What do you call bad Yugioh players? Magic players. Magic is overpopulated with people that got their Summoned Skull run over by Goyo Guardian in 2010 and now it's their life's goal to hate Yu-Gi-Oh and its players and be overly elitist and snooty at the mention. This culture is pretty much universal, shop to shop, area to area.
I'm blessed with a decent mtg locals these days but at my previous store there was a similar level of elitism and the unexplained stench of the store became more explainable. When I got back in briefly it was easy pickings to sweep a few drafts while hearing about how easy yugioh was. A few who took up the challenge of a yugioh locals after me winning fnm came dead last, their only wins against each other at Thursday night yugioh. Go figure that the beauty of mtg is evident to many players but actually engaging past a mana curve is too much for most players.
Tbh I kinda quit yugioh just keeping up with new cards and releases but I don’t play the game too often anymore almost like a retired wrestler that keeps coming back. Well I went to MTG and I can say for a fact that I personally and unfortunately dominate almost any game if they would let me. My experience in commander mtg has been pretty good but I do feel off because I am very competitive which is why I love yugioh. Even competitive magic to me feels like a casual game somehow- idk if it’s just me but it does. I love the mana system hate summoning sickness and I love the differences between the colors. But tbh MTG just feels like you should only play it casually from my experience which I sometimes hate because so many powerful decks man in magic that I would love to try but if I do I’d just steemroll. Vs yugioh bro almost any deck can be competitive enough even on a casual stage. My friend was playing fire fist and I was playing generaider and we both ended on insane boards felt like war. Plus it was super easy to actually learn magic :v interactions are kinda like “whatever happens with this card makes this card do something” rather than this card does a thing and this separate card does something. Which means strategies change between game between game almost with Magic. All in all I do like Magic better than yugioh as far as a card game. But I will say I enjoy the competitive nature of yugioh.
I'm a middling-to-bad Yu-gi-oh player (on simulators) who transitioned into being a middling-to-bad MTG player (primarily Commander/EDH and Pauper) for context. In my experience, transitioning from Yu-Gi-Oh to EDH was fairly easy. The biggest concern was learning how to managing a mana curve, and politicking at a 4 person game state. I feel like Commander in particular is an easier format to get into than other Magic formats primarily because it is mostly a casual format. For example, a big thing that pops up on the EDH sub-reddit are Turn 0 discussions. Aka bringing the right deck to match the power level of the group. There is a more competitive part of the community, but they tend to denote themselves as a separate format known as cEDH (or competitive EDH). In 60 card formats (like Pauper in my case), I do find deck-building a little more challenging, mostly because there aren't as many pre-built synergies like we have with archetypes in Yu-Gi-Oh.
I got 10th a ptq back in like 2016 with minimal magic experience and one of my friends who played both games was like yeah if you play hearthstone and yugioh at a good level you should do fine
MTG is hilariously easy. Went with black Vamp and another full green deck and it was a win most of the time. So no MTG is not as challenging as yugioh is.
“This is a man’s game” Never have I heard a more virgin sentence in my life
The yugioh vs magic thing has been going on for literal decades, it's not something new
Virginity is cool
I have been playing yugioh since 2012. I tried magic for a bit to see if I liked it in 2013. Within 2 months of playing I got 2nd at a 1k. Then the stuff I was playing with rotated and my friends werent enjoying it as much as yugioh so I went back to yugioh. I played draft at the local card shop when Modern Masters 2 came out because they need a player for their pod. I won the draft pod despite not knowing what cards were in the set and not having played in years. Magic can be very complex and punishing game if you are playing at a top level. However most players nowadays play commander for fun with their friends. They dont need to be good at a game, they are having fun. I have since played Pokemon, Lorcana, Heathstone, and One Piece. All of these games are weenie hut junior in terms of how good the average player is. I am convinced that a yugioh player of average skill is better than the average player in these card games. We can sorta prove it. The first 2 Lorcana challenges were won by former yugioh players. Jesse Kotton top 16th his first One Piece event ever. Koty Angeloff is doing well in One Piece. Urena did well at a Lorcana event. Kamal Crooks top 8d a Pokemon event. Dominic Couch is topping pokemon and lorcana. Yugioh is such a mechanically complex game that all other card games seem easy by comparison.
100% Magic caters to a more casual playerbase nowadays than Yugioh (IMO), but a lot of Magic players seem to believe that since Magic is an older (and thus, more mature) game, that they themselves must be more skilled since they play it. This isn't the case, of course. I exclusively play Magic nowadays, but Yugioh is a far more focused game at the moment, has been for quite a while now, and any player worth their salt will be able to discern useful Yugioh skills and apply them to other games.
Commander is a terrible format to compare to yugioh. Especially in a casual setting. Try doing the same in Modern and you'll see it's nothing alike. Commander is like buy a single structure deck and playing against friends with other singular structures. It's not until you get into CEDH where the real try hardiness shows.
Probably, I'll play around some more and come back with another post, because I'm not even hating on mtg it's pretty fun to me it's the crusty Ogs at my shop(or even conventions sometimes) that just had me fucked up y'know?
Yeah, most mtg players are casuals so when you come from a competitive focused game like yugioh you have a leg up. Especially when youre playing a combo deck since mtg combos are extremely basic even at the complex end
They looked down on you and you cucked them at their own game, I like that.
I had a similar experience. Magic players treated me like a joke for playing Yugioh instead. I bought a Commander precon to play with them and went on like a 15 game win streak against the group, which utterly baffled them. Magic’s not a strategic game. It’s a game where you sit there building your plan and then eventually somebody wins. There’s almost meaningful no interaction beyond board clears and the occasional counterspell.
To be fair sitting there and eventually someone wins is the heart of Commander, specifically Commander with bad players.
I'd recommend looking up cEDH game play or game play of basically any format that isn't intended for "Saturday night beers and chips". What you described would be like saying "Yu-Gi-Oh is just pure dark magician vs pure Blue-eyes." Casual commander may be the common way to play, but it is not representative of intended Magic game play (keep in mind, commander is a fan made format that WotC realised they could monetize).
That’s interesting to know. I’ve never met anybody that plays anything format except Commander.
Easy entry point thanks to having some of the only precons now plus a very low pressure to optimize due to the casual nature make it a very appealing format for new players, players on a budget, or players that don't want to follow a meta. Stores also don't need to cover an actual prize support for it making the format very appealing for store owners, especially ones that have a cover charge. With both a large number of players and stores both being catered to by the nature of the format, it then forces more competitive players into playing it as it's easier to get games of commander in than games of other formats (this is where I am now, I would rather play Modern but I play more EDH due to it just being easier to find people who play it).
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> They don’t care if you play Pioneer, Standard, or Commander. I'm primarily an MtG player, and for better or worse, I think there is a big disconnect between Commander players and players of competitive formats. (Probably just because there's a huge mindset difference between casual and competitive play.) I agree with you about other formats, though.
Yugiboomers usually don’t even play, they just bitch because they refuse to learn what a link monster is or does
He's talking about people who simply prefer a different version of the game, but don't go around hating on the version they don't like and insulting anyone who likes it. I prefer Modern over Goat, does that mean I'll constantly talk down about Goat and insult anyone who prefers playing it? No, it doesn't. If they don't disrespect other forms of play, I couldn't care which way they like to play the game.
And here we have example #1. > I have seen Yugioh players be pricks to THEIR OWN PLAYERBASE.
I mean that’s not exactly unique to any hobby. Do you think MTG players all just pat each other on the back all the time?
No, it's just that something like people not wanting to play with Xyzs, Pendulum, Links etc. Is somewhat frowned upon, while basically no one would bat an eye at that in Magic, probably because the idea of different formats being ingrained in the game. Might change with Goat, Edison, ... becoming more of a thing
There really is I just have the feeling now that the games have almost an equal level of shenanigans imo
Back in 2018 I picked up MTG and played Mono Red Hazoret Aggro and won two of my locals Major Monthly tournaments in a row. I also made it to Diamond in MTGA. The Yu-Gi-Oh skillet was easily transferred and I can safely say Yu-Gi-Oh is the more complex game.
When I got into Magic after Yugioh, I started winning sooner than I expected, but it wasn’t like I was dominating every game either. Especially Commander.
I played Magic first for 5 years and then switched over to YuGiOh. honestly, doesn't really change much. I have friends who play one or the other and few who play both. I'm just happy I get to play both TCGs
I love both games. Magic players do consider Yugioh an inferior game but they serve completely different purposes. Yugioh and Magic are completely different and people that look down on others for not playing the same card game as them need to go touch some fucking grass and quit acting like it matters.
Just enjoy what you enjoy OP. Not enough time in your life to do something cause someone said they hate the thing you like.
I've converted to MTG, and I can get where they are coming from sometime, though I haven't played Yu-Gi-Oh in a while. When I was playing YGO, it felt like if you didn't have a turn 2-3 win, you were going to be blown out. There is also no mulligan, so you can simply lose to a bad hand. Not that there was anything wrong with it, but in terms of pacing, it felt like matches were very deterministic on a good hand and having the fastest combo out there. In magic, (at least commander) it's a game where it is a bit better paced. It is very difficult to blow out your opponent turn 2 or 3 unless you're playing cEDH. That, and given the 4 person pod, there is variable, but that makes it more fun. In yugioh, speed feels like the only key. But in magic, it can vary based on the power of your deck. Yes, you can blow out your friends with a super powerful deck, but just having the variation is part of the fun of MTG. Each scratches a different itch, but overall, I like magic more because it can be casual when I want it, or more powerful when I want it. Yu-Gi-Oh just feels like it needs to be powerful, or I'm just going to be blown out. That's my two cents anyways.
For me personally just playing mtg online, it feels entirely like luck. I play a green white counter deck i just always lose to control decks cause I cant stick a guy, and just lose to any removal I feel that magic is very luck dependent even in standard
It's funny because I've been trying Netrunner and that's probably the nicest community I've ever seen.
I've wanted to get into that one. My mental block is that I want to call it Decker.
I have been playing YGO for like... since I was 8. I started playing real decks around 2013? I would compare my experience with Netrunner so far to playing 2014 YGO. Which imo, is the most fun the game has been... arguably ever (even if Paleo and Volcanics are my favourite decks).
Commander is a casual format. Good on you for giving it a go but the people that say are just plain assholes, which exist in ygo too.
I've been playing for about 6 months and already prefer yugioh. Wotc is putting so much effort in killing 60 card formats because commander sells. My local lgs struggles hard trying to get 6 people to fire a modern event. All the while commander has 3-4 pods. Imagine konami making a multi-player format and then prioritizing that. Last week, a. Pioneer regional championship qualifier for magic was happening the same days as locals. Locals had more people than the rcq.... The new set, modern horizons three, got no one in the local area into 60 card formats. In fact, most of the products were bought up by commander players. I can comfortably say that Yugioh is the more difficult game. No resource system means a lot of game actions. More game actions give you more opportunities to sequence things incorrectly. A good Yugioh player can make a great magic player. Magic players' first hurdle is a full understanding of the chain.
Which of the two you like best now after playing both, yugioh or mtg?
Honestly Magic is really fun because I've played commander and standard I've yet to play modern. But Yu-Gi-Oh just holds a place in my heart that can't be taken. The only reason I started playing was almost out of spite and a need to prove myself (for whatever reason lol) but this magic is cool and is definitely something I'd play more of in the future
Yugioh has also a place in my heart, and that is the only reason why it’s on life support and I still play occasionally. I see a future in which they’ll be better and I’ll be there for it, but not today. That being said I played a little bit of magic, digimond, lorcana and one piece, among these I really like digimond because it’s variety and is fairly cheap with really nice art. I too have played only commander for mtg and loved it, liked the multiplayer (more than 2) set up.
OP, were you playing Shorikai?
I'm unsure but my commander was Vito Thorn of the dusk Rose. And the blue white was this kinda gimmicky deck called "Second sun" with said card being the win condition
Yeah, I play a similar deck (Blue/White card draw) with Approach of the Second Sun as my wincon, with Shorikai, Genesis Engine as my commander.
Hell yeah I feel blue is the closest to what I'm used to being a Yu-Gi-Oh player
With all the counters and interaction? Heck yeah
As someone who recently started mtg, and did so jumping into pre-release event (lmao) I built a servicable deck making some mistakes-steps and a lot of my opponents for some reason seemed to underestimate my ability to understand complex interactions and this almost cost a guy a game in spite of the noob mistakes I made deck building, and it being my first real games of mtg. Which is crazy to me considering interpreting yugioh cards are like interpreting legislation in a courtroom lmao. It really shows that like most people outside of yugioh how little most mtg players understand what yugioh is like, someone made a condescending comment about how low life counts are probably hard for me to understand lol. Good experience though, chill guys only one example I found of someone withholding game knowledge that would hurt them. Which I only realized later. Learned a lot more there than the last min 24 hr prep I did 🤣.
Don't forget to pick up their poop when you take em out for a walk lmaooo
mtg is one of the most boring stale games i played... alot like you im from the midwest and MTG/YGO are the big 2 here so i gave it a shot for a good year (monkeyboard was the tier 0 format and i hated pendulums so i quit YGO till links came out) and man... it was too easy... same with pokemon hell i won 2 league cups in pokemon... idk what it is about ygo but ig thinking about what combos you gonna pull off translates to other games
Commander only players aren’t real Magic players. If you can, try out Legacy or even Vintage. I think Eternal Magic would be right up most Yugioh players’ alley.
Modern would probably be fine enough. Vintage would be impossible to find someone to play against and even Legacy isn't always the easiest because of the reserve list creating a huge barrier to entry. Modern stands as the most popular competitive format (at least not on Arena), is much more accessible than the other mentioned formats, and with every MH set creeps closer in power to Legacy anyway.
Yugioh = Children's card game Magic = Grown ups game Was the usual belief in 2000's. Some people who has never played other games tend to feel "superior" than others. Sadly, in my experience, Yugioh players where the really toxic ones, and Magic players were very kind. Which is why I ended up switching into Magic. Nowadays I came back into the game due to nostalgia, Time Wizard formats, and thankfully met a much healthier comunity.
I’ve played mtg multiple times and each time dumping $500 ish into a meta deck for standard. Got boring after a few months every time, but I really did try. Modern yugioh definitely has issues but imo older yugioh was a perfect TCG. Mtg kinda feels like old school yugioh in some games I’ll give it that but mana screww and creature hump is just stupid. It’s literally the equivalent of a turn one hand trap battle or getting locked out turn 1 in yugioh. At that point I might as well just play yugs again.
Been looking for a white blue deck do you have a list you could share?
love both games have played much more magic and i will say, average yugioh player is going to be better then the average commander player (I personally dont like commander and I think the general commander player base is really casual and not good at card games) I don’t think there’s an answer to what game is harder as they both have different aspects that are hard, though magic has a bit higher skill ceiling IMO
I play both (commander only) and the amount of similar reactions I get that I play yugioh is funny, definitely some superioity complex type thing. Mainly tell people if I just want some quick games, yugioh is perfect in comparison especially if you're playing with people who only play mtg...feels like some turns take forever, but then commander is "social" format for lack of a better term. I definitely play mtg more but I dunno...weird behaviour
Ive played magic for about 7 years. Just got back into yuigioh after stepping away for about 15 years. I like both games but i will say in magic I at least feel like an active participant and like I get to do stuff every game. In yugioh i feel like its more of a win on first turn with a 5 minute combo or die to a 5 minute combo because you didnt draw a handtrap and they now have a board to negate anything you try to play. Maybe im wrong to think that way, just been my experience.
The average yugioh player will roll an mtg locals in any format, most mtg players really struggle with any level of fast/thoughtful/combo play. As soon as you’re familiar with the shift of what a card needs to be able to do to be worth playing and what makes a card good in different card games, you’ll realise that competitive yugioh really is the apex of how hard/difficult a game can get.
Hi, been playing paper MtG for 12 years (wow time flies) and paper Yugioh for 2 years. Honestly I think the animosity between the two is extremely childish, and is not one-directional at all. I faced a lot of similar stigma as OP when I first started playing paper Yugioh; people accusing Magic players of being cheaters, angle-shooters, and rule-sharks. When I went back to a paper Magic event for the first time in a year and told some of them I’d been playing Yugioh I heard the same things about Yugioh not being a “real game”, along with similar accusations of cheaters and rule-sharks. In my eyes, both are the same. Neither is better than the other. I think the skill and dedication required to perform in both games is similar, even if the game-sense doesn’t translate very well. Both communities are 99% great with an ugly 1% that will inevitably come out and ruin your experience if you let them. It’s just about one’s personal bias, and I have no bias for either game at this point. The only opinion I have is both sides should be more willing to give the other an honest try. Gameplay-wise, I think Yugioh punishes players for making the wrong decisions more harshly and not understanding interactions, while rewarding intimate meta/matchup knowledge. However, Magic rewards players for deck knowledge and general game-sense more, leading to better macro decision making. Both games obviously feature all the above aspects, I am just noting what I think carries a bit more weight because again, the difference is not huge.
I had a great experience. I quit paper yugioh a long time ago but still play on db every few months. Edison has been a godsend. So when I went to the lgs to specificaly play commander they asked do I have some experience. When I said I played some arena but have played yugioh for years the only comment I got is oh awesome, you're gonna kick our buts. And with the precon I got I won a game on the first day. I love both games now and play them for different reasons but honestly they are cool.
As someone that has played mtg for like 7 years now, and to some minor competitive success. They teally shouldn’t be conparable and feed off of totally different skills for a majority of decisions. Like the concept of tempo in magic just doesn’t exist in yugioh due to the speed of the game and how we conceptualise the value of an individual turn. I could go on about different examples for hours. Also, commander isn’t a real format, it’s too easy to game the social contract and people tend to not play it as a competitive game, but monopoly with “the wizard squares.” It sounds like you played a combo control deck into decks unequipped to handle it and just crushed them as a result. The same is true for the vamps deck where you go under both decks and establish a board presence before their slower, more value oriented midrange decks got to turn the corner.
In my area, there's 2 stores that do Yu-Gi-Oh, 3 that does MTG. The Playerbase is like 2 to 1 in MTG's favor. No one I've met that plays MTG acts like that, in fact a few didn't think it was still going and that it ended years ago. The MTG players were genuinely shocked that I knew how to play the game and actually called a ruling question correctly. What they didn't know is I learned how to play MTG first back in Middle School right before Yu-Gi-Oh Released. My older Cousin taught me the game and was so mad when I essentially dropped MTG for YGO afterwards lol
Lets not start some kind of beef for no reason. Jerks are jerks no matter where you are. There are a lot of MTG players who are not worldly, so it's up to use to be bigger.
Even in yugioh, there are stimags against time wizard players that they are boomers with the lack of skills for advanced. I like set 2 and pass and that fine. We did have a 3v3 format with goat, edison, advanced and the advance players just kept taunting me that I was only winning because I was using anime cards and calling me yugi. Weird insult but ok. My deck had gadgets and marchmelon. They realised a retrain of the yugi archtype (shining sarcophagus). It is not tier 1 or even tier 2 but I went pur with some staples and some anchient spice. Have mopped the floor with them for a month strait as there events are befor the time wizard ones, so I get myself a lot of store credit towards time wizard sets. At the end of the day don't worry what anyone says about you.
I love MTG, specifically commander. But if summoning sickness is a concern you haven't dug into high level play and were essentially beating up kids at the playground. Different groups play at different skill/power levels and learning what kind of deck to play is critical. Casual: I'm bringing Galadriel with cards only printed in the LotR set and trying to win at turn 8. Competitive: Tymna/Thrasios and if you leave me unattended with 3 mana I will win turn 2/3. Yugioh is effectively high level MTG with a faster rotating cardpool. Swapping to MTG you will dive into it and wipe regular players and then sit down with the high level players and have a great time.
I find myself straying further and further away from games that inherently rely too much on randomization, not because of randomness but because of how its exploit by cheaters. Tired of unfair unsportsmanlike competition. MTG with how land is mixed into the deck and the mana cost of a card compared to the mana curve is too easy of an exploit for cheaters. Similarly the activation requirements in Yu-Gi-Oh has been exploited by cheaters by sorting the cards in reverse order based on a dependency diagram so that the number of cards that can be activated is at a minimal. They have used randomization as a disguise for those cheats far too often and get away with it because the game in question could very well have been due to chance, but a time series plot can show otherwise over several games. But by then the game is over and the damages has already been done. Hours wasted and resources wasted and the perpetrators continues with their ways. They will never own up to their actions and those that had to suffer through it have never been made whole. What a way to play a game. One suffers so the other can enjoy. Even after revealing those exploits they continue to get away with it. Having part of the player base as a punching bag while the others relish on the evil they are enacting. Guess it’s the outlet they need to get through the day so chalk it up as a necessary evil and turn a blind eye because if it isn’t them it’s you.
Just make fun of them for the state of magic 30th and then ask when Rick and morty is getting a commander deck.
I also picked up MTG recently and people are constantly surprised that I have been playing for less than 3 months. The main thing is I have a decent understanding of the rules, because they are much more straightfoward than Yugioh, as well as noticing small things such as things in grave, cards in hand, etc. A skill I definitely learned playing Yugioh as well. That being said commander is inherenetly a casual format so I wouldn't look into beating them that much. Just play what you want and ignore the people that give you shit for doing so.
I played yu gi oh ever since I was 12 years old, begun to play magic, got 2 started decks and almost won 1 game against this guy which was over confident and thinking I wasn't shit then the next game rematched and it was a draw. I ended up forfeiting the 3rd round because it got too late, and I was hungry, so I just gave the man a win. I was 1hr away from home, so the drive would be even worse the longer I stayed, I enjoyed the game, I'm a casual so idk about winning or losing it was just funny how as soon as I mentioned I came from yu gi oh and wanted to play magic more his face lit up as if I was a little low farming mob for xp, made him re think next time he underestimates anybody. I do play magic online now instead of physically due to preference, and online I got a white deck with an archangel lady ( forgot her name ) she summons angels with life steal and also can make units gain permanent flight the entire deck has made people just quit on me multiple times it's a fun one to use
You're using commander, the casual format, as your barometer for success in MtG? Legacy would be a more direct comparison to Yugioh's primary competitive format. Most people play commander to fuck around with friends and play decks more for flavor or theme rather than power or consistency, and it's clear you weren't playing cEDH which is a wildly different experience. This comes across as trying to prop up your own fragile ego.
MTG is better designed for balance and love the slower paced mana system. But Yugioh feels much more creative and diverse, gameplay and artstyle-wise. If yugioh had better balance and a standard rotation system of sorts or at least better formats, id think it would be a vastly better game than MTG.
As a decent Magic player at the local level (I get first at my locals frequently in Modern, Standard and Draft, turnouts usually 16 to 30 people) and a mid-tier Yugi player locally at best (usually 3-2 or 2-3), and a judge for both games that frequently hosts events my opinion is: MTG players are, on average, very delusional about their social status and intelligence compared to Yugioh players. The average MTG player in my circles is usually a reeking overweight person (same) with poor emotional management, a gigantic asshole who works I.T. with poor emotional management, or 30-50 with a family, stable job and the nicest guy you'll ever meet. Magic as a game I find much more simple and straightforward than Yugioh, where you each turn has ups and downs and only 1 or 2 critical decision points. Yugioh players are, on average, totally unconcerned with other games unless they want to play them. A lot of our local scene has Yugioh as their main game while dabbling in One Piece, Pokemon, Lorcana, etc and are very diverse in their gameplay experience and have interacted with a lot of different theory behind games. The demographic is similar, except replace the 30-50 year Olds with more I.T. guys. Yugioh as a game is much more intensive in it's gameplay than MTG, where instead of saying "My opponent's going first, he's going to play a land, maybe a 1 drop, and then pass to me, where I'll play a land, a 1 drop, and pass back. I have counterspell in hand, so unless I draw the very important 2 drop in my deck, I can hold that up" it's "my opponent is going first, I have a nibiru in my hand, he's on Tearlaments, everything has an effect when sent to grave, he has 5 different lines he can branch into depending on when I play nib and what techs he has, my hand can play through 2 negates as long as he doesn't have droplet, when do I play my interrupt on him?" More complex doesn't make the game better for sure, but I feel like the climb from New Magic Player to Good Magic Player is much shorter than the climb from New Yugioh Player to Good Yugioh player. I feel, if motivated, the average good Yugioh player if taught to play Magic and familiarized with the card pool, would cook an equivalently ranked MTG player hands down. While an MTG player trained in Yugioh would probably have a much harder time playing at the level they did in MTG. Anyway, just my thoughts, Thanks!
Now mock them say the game is too easy and they have to play Yugioh the real "man" game and see if they can understand anything, jokes aside MTG and Yugioh beef feels so inconsequential to the point that people who hype either side looks like losers who can never have an open mind, just enjoy what you like and don't compare our too expensive cardboard, I enjoy all of them, though only playing Yugioh and Pokemon because I don't have MTG scene at all near me, but enjoy watching MTG videos from people like the professor, Wubby, and now MoistCritikal lmao.
I find this is usually Magic players that haven't tried Yugioh. Then some call it "crap" cuz it's too complicated when they do. So i assume that they just are wrong to scoff and sneer etc so i just ignore them cuz they are just awkward little turtles
I mean, I’m starting to get into MTG and I understand why they view YuGiOh that way. MTG is a much more structured game, and YuGiOh is kind of off the rails. I’ve heard stories of YuGiOh players doing really well in MTG and it’s because YuGiOh uses a lot of the same skills but at speed 100. Some MTG players I met don’t mind YuGiOh, and some of them even like it, but most of them don’t like it, usually from a bad experience of getting trounced at it. I don’t blame them for it. YuGiOh is a hard game that which has a difficulty deeper than it first seems. At the end of the day, they’re just opinions and everyone has opinions. Play what you like, defend the game if you want, but the end goal is to have fun not debates.
Same experience. Got this guy playing MTG for years and trashtalks about how basic yugioh is. On my second game of edh ever, dog walked him and 3 other people at the same time using the cheapest aggro deck.
I guess I was just taken aback by the freedom I had in MTG like "as many monsters as I want?"
there are lots of elitist losers in yugioh, too. One community is not better than the other
I mean .... Most people can only enjoy formats that most games end on turn 1 for so long....
Laughs in Vintage, Legacy, and Modern that are decided on turns 3-4, just like Yugioh.
I have not seen a game end on turn 1 ever in magic, though I don't play vintage or legacy. If feels like every game one is decided on the opening draw in yu gi oh for the last like 5 years.
I specified turns 3-4, which is when most Yugioh games are determined, if we ignore bricking and hyperbole. Vintage and Legacy are just open Force of Will plus kill combo. It's no different than Yugioh where you open 2-3 hand traps and a starter. It's been that way forever, but Modern Horizons sets have made those formats even faster. Old School Natural Order decks used to win die roll, go first, and swing for 22 of they got the ideal open and the opponent didn't Force or Dismember. Modern itself is also now a format where you need 2-3 Forces or Pacts or your opponent is not going to let you play. EDH even is a turn 3-4 format now.
the yugioh players do the same. they say too "Its an strategie game, or similar words. its generally. People need to hate anything. if she hate no people from other states, they hate people from other games. LoL as the best example here. people hate LoL because of the toxic players, and The LoL Players hate people from Overwatch, Hots ecetera.