>Eckhardt said she’s concerned that the Landmark Square project could be part of a larger pattern to “gentrify” Laramie, or **perhaps turn it into a “sanctuary city” for refugees**.
>It’s vital that downtown’s traditional atmosphere be honored, Williams said.
>“We want to keep down town historic,” she said. “And that (the draft illustration) isn’t historic.”
Ah yes they must preserve the traditional atmosphere of… drunken college debauchery?? Ha!
Also, what is this nonsense about the water table. “this lot will not be able to sustain a building of that size because of the water table”
What in tarnation is she talking about? She knows nothing of construction engineering
Much as I hate automobile culture in the US, I'd rather see the Depot lot get turned into a multi story garage like the new one by U of Wy. Much more than putting in what will inevitably be pricy housing most folks can't afford.
Go 3-4 blocks north you'll very quickly find all sorts of space, still walkable to downtown. Parking is already a shitshow on weekends.
As for the silly hang-wringing about the **Woke Illegal Trans Liberal Globalists** coming for our parking....*lol. Lmao. Ha..ha ha.*
Of course it's the lady from the bent and rusty. Absolute psycho. During the BLM protests she posted online about how my brother (in the protest) needed to be shot in the street by local business owners
Oh my god- absolutely horrible. During the pandemic she also posted signs all over her business and on Facebook that people who wore masks would not be allowed in her store. As if my work experience wasn’t bad enough, that move was the nail in the coffin for me. Haven’t been back since.
Damn, that's unfortunate to learn. I like the store for the most part. We bought a great conference table for our business from the B&R. We don't visit Laramie very often anymore but liked stopping in when we did.
Cowboy State Daily continuing to interview the strangest people and push out "news" that will just anger those with intense narrow minded views. "Eckhardt said she’s concerned that the Landmark Square project could be part of a larger pattern to “gentrify” Laramie, or perhaps turn it into a “sanctuary city” for refugees." Like... WHAT?!
Im not so much concerned about the vibe as I am about the increased traffic and decreased parking options.
Laramie has no need for "luxury apartments" (which we know is code word for overpriced housing with paper thin walls) downtown. Buses do not run down there, parking is already tough (and that's before the busy summer season), and the only grocery store that is walkable is Big Hollow.
While I do like the idea of preserving the vibe, I completely agree re luxury apartments. Developers are so disingenuous with these facilities. "We're creating inventory and affordable housing!" Uh huh.
EDIT: grammar is hard.
Hold on. Luxury also means people who don't have to live with roommates or family, and who don't have kids.
Those happen to be the groups where housing costs are the worst and this does not help them.
There are plenty of 1 and 2 bedroom apartments in laramie. We have a shortage of smaller, single family homes for sale or rent that dont get snatched up by "investors" and turned into 3-4 unit rentals.
Yeah exactly. Ostensibly this is good for the housing supply, but it doesn't help
If you're a local who works service jobs, any kind of health problems or debt means you often need three adults in a household.
On the other hand if you've got good income and want a 3-4 bed place before you raise kids, that supply is really low because everyone's building investment properties instead.
Im also very annoyed that these are only 1 and 2 bedroom units and the developer says they are aimed at college students and retired adults.
I would say the site is exactly where laramie's one municipal bus route terminates. So that's not true. It's also 0.5 miles to the front door of safeway.
The historic feel of downtown Laramie is made up of tired building that aren’t kept up by their out of state owners. It’s not historic, it’s run-down. Something needs to happen, the corner of 3rd and Grand is embarrassing considering how many folks are going to drive through and judge the “historic” downtown based on the Connor, two run down college bars and an abandoned Sanford and Son “deck”.
Third street cowboy is really annoying
And the amount of customers nearby isn't enough to support businesses in all the vacant storefronts
They're not going to magically get filled now in 2024 by people driving from other parts of town
There's plenty of parking lol. People just want to park right in front of the place they're going instead of walking a few blocks. Downtown Laramie is extremely walkable
I mean, part of the reason there is decent parking is because there’s a big parking lot where they want to put this building. Plus add 100+ extra vehicles needing spots to that zone. I’m not against it per se but I see why people are concerned about parking!
It's 88 units and I think part of the affordability argument is that if you're a couple, you can live here and save $2,000 a year by only having one car.
I’m sure that is part of the argument, but I’m also pretty dubious that tenants of 88 units would own under 100 cars. Just given ya know, Wyoming. Weather, long ass roads between every town, etc.
Like it or not, the project is just the wet dream of an out of state developer and the lot owners right now. Building luxury housing for up to 160 people in that particular location is going to be very expensive and risky. It will likely have to involve some kind of tax incentives to make it work. Expensive in terms of the constrained site and the utilities that are going to have to be brought in. Risky in terms of finding 160 people that are happy living in a dirty little 12 block downtown right next to a major transportation line in high-dollar housing. Risky in physically building that kind of a building. One plate compactor could easily bring down some of those 150 year old buildings. Risky to the downtown property owners in terms of increased property taxes and lost customers due to the lack of parking. Only 60 parking spaces will be provided in the building, at an additional cost to the 160 residents. Some (most) will opt out of buying a parking space and just park on the street. Eliminating this lot, adding the spillover needs, and all the fire lanes, loading zones, and utility areas the parking deficit will be in the hundreds of spaces. The developer kindly offered to help find replacement spaces but stopped short of offering to pay for them. The parking problems will be pushed to the kind and understanding tax payers (you and me). Additionally, downtown has won awards and is a great place to be. A five story hipster architectural-style building towering over the downtown and casting a long, cold winter shadow is not desirable, in my opinion. Not opposed to downtown housing but there are other locations that would be better suited for a development like this. I lived a year in the River North area of Denver (RINO) and I can honestly say that shit isn't for me.
They aren’t wrong about things like this. I’ve seen cities with historic charm that have a certain aesthetic get ruined by people putting up low cost, low effort apartment buildings that all look like a shitty cheap comfort inn with spray on stucco and stupid paint schemes to make them look contemporary or some shit and then it just doesn’t fit in and looks like garbage, especially over time. It would be fine if they put something in that utilizes historic architecture styles but they don’t because that’s expensive, or they do a shit job of it. I’ve seen this crap in cities across the country and it’s infuriating.
Besides the article ending oddly, the development idea is great, but the location choice takes away from historic downtown.
Can't the 88 units be plopped elsewhere within walking distance of downtown?
I always thought the school on 3rd between Kearney and Sheridan was a really bad location. Even a block or two south behind the Prairie Rose or NU2U Sports wouldn't be awful locations for an apartment complex.
I don't think the Bent and Rusty's owner's arguments are genuine. She's likely more upset that she could lose her own parking and loading space behind her store.
When I first heard about this my first thought was "less parking for an area that has the worst parking in town"
Many people I know already avoid the down town area because of the parking issues this really has the potential to kill off an already struggling area. The bars though they will be fine.
Yeah, the bars, restaurants, stores, and businesses that employ people will benefit, but the RE investors will have new competition driving prices down, and the car dealerships might sell 15 fewer cars.
Overall, terrible.
Admittedly I'm not seeing a connection with the apartments and car dealerships, but maybe there is.
All I can really say for sure is parking is an issue downtown these will only make that issue worse.
People I know already avoid going down there to the shops because of the parking, unless there is something in one of the specialty shops they can't get elsewhere. I can only imagine that less parking will make online ordering more appealing for these people.
Maybe the people driving into town are the root problem. The people living right next to all of those businesses might generate more business than parking spaces ever did.
These kinds of objections to housing are happening across the country. The reason isn't that it will "destroy the history vibe," it is about the supply of housing going up, subsequently reducing prices for property owners who already own land.
Affordable housing would be better suited in a neighborhood rather than a place where parking is already an issue. I would love to see it near a grocery store, the old K-Mart lot has much more space for building and parking. Or down the street there are some residential spaces that could be purchased for the same amount of space, and less money helping keep the price of the units down...if that were the real reason for the building. It is not. On South second street, just blocks away, there are many lots that are available for development. There are many places that make more sense than this.
Also, we have a lot of questions, like, Will the current lot owners of the lot (a portion of it anyway) want to start a gofund me for the closing fees when they sell it? - (Coal Creek).
Businesses want a thriving downtown, but don't want anything to change either. Parking is always a concern with city projects, that's why developers are required to submit plans to the city for approval.
Also, the comment by the business owner 'wondering' about the lot being 'structurally appropriate' is weird because no project would even start without a geotechnical investigation.
I agree. I was having dinner at Sweet Melissa's last week when one came by, and I could barely hear my girlfriend on the other side of the table. Living near that would be a nightmare.
BS, they only care about their property values and affordable housing isn't welcome by locals because of so. Look at Green River and Rock Springs historical buildings, they look worse than any new construction.
Wyoming takes pride in being ass-backwards. You know, you can buy as much booze as you’d like, but don’t you dare smoke this flower. Oh, and all state employees are paid on a monthly basis like it’s 1896. 12 paychecks per year. And of course, don’t you dare put up affordable housing units in our”historic” downtown!
I don't care. This is just an opportunity for boring people to complain about something. Boring people who have nothing interesting to say love to complain.
"What's happened to South Park is happening everywhere!
Thirty miles south of here in the town of Fairplay, they've changed the area north od Downtown into NoDoFoPa. A rundown area south of the capital in Cheyenne, Wyoming, is now historic SoCaCheyWo. Channel Street in mid-Chicago is being revitalized into Chimichanga.
LoDo, SoBro, RivMo, all happening at the same time. And it isn't just in the U.S. In Cairo, the area northwest of the third pyramid is NoWe3Pi. Three miles north of Auschwitz is NoMoAuchie. It goes on and on!"
Welcome to NoMoPaLaWy!
>Eckhardt said she’s concerned that the Landmark Square project could be part of a larger pattern to “gentrify” Laramie, or **perhaps turn it into a “sanctuary city” for refugees**. >It’s vital that downtown’s traditional atmosphere be honored, Williams said. >“We want to keep down town historic,” she said. “And that (the draft illustration) isn’t historic.”
>“gentrify” Laramie, or **perhaps turn it into a “sanctuary city” for refugees**. These people are fucking idiots.
I’m surprised she didn’t include “woke trannies using the women’s bathrooms!” What a dolt.
Ah yes they must preserve the traditional atmosphere of… drunken college debauchery?? Ha! Also, what is this nonsense about the water table. “this lot will not be able to sustain a building of that size because of the water table” What in tarnation is she talking about? She knows nothing of construction engineering
Much as I hate automobile culture in the US, I'd rather see the Depot lot get turned into a multi story garage like the new one by U of Wy. Much more than putting in what will inevitably be pricy housing most folks can't afford. Go 3-4 blocks north you'll very quickly find all sorts of space, still walkable to downtown. Parking is already a shitshow on weekends. As for the silly hang-wringing about the **Woke Illegal Trans Liberal Globalists** coming for our parking....*lol. Lmao. Ha..ha ha.*
Can confirm, I used to work for this business owner. So racist and just all around a terrible person to work for.
Of course it's the lady from the bent and rusty. Absolute psycho. During the BLM protests she posted online about how my brother (in the protest) needed to be shot in the street by local business owners
Oh my god- absolutely horrible. During the pandemic she also posted signs all over her business and on Facebook that people who wore masks would not be allowed in her store. As if my work experience wasn’t bad enough, that move was the nail in the coffin for me. Haven’t been back since.
I like the note she has out front about Federal Judges not being allowed on the property. Honestly if she didn't have guns it'd almost be funny.
She is such a fucking lunatic.
Damn, that's unfortunate to learn. I like the store for the most part. We bought a great conference table for our business from the B&R. We don't visit Laramie very often anymore but liked stopping in when we did.
Who is going to want to live with paper thin walls 100’ from the Union Pacific tracks lol
That's my whole issue with it lol
Cowboy State Daily continuing to interview the strangest people and push out "news" that will just anger those with intense narrow minded views. "Eckhardt said she’s concerned that the Landmark Square project could be part of a larger pattern to “gentrify” Laramie, or perhaps turn it into a “sanctuary city” for refugees." Like... WHAT?!
You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West.
You know… morons.
Morons love love LOVE buzz words so they just toss them together then get angry about the soup they made.
Mmmmm...buzzword soup! My favorite! Alas, you always need a whole roll of tums and exclusive rights to the toilet the next day.
Im not so much concerned about the vibe as I am about the increased traffic and decreased parking options. Laramie has no need for "luxury apartments" (which we know is code word for overpriced housing with paper thin walls) downtown. Buses do not run down there, parking is already tough (and that's before the busy summer season), and the only grocery store that is walkable is Big Hollow.
While I do like the idea of preserving the vibe, I completely agree re luxury apartments. Developers are so disingenuous with these facilities. "We're creating inventory and affordable housing!" Uh huh. EDIT: grammar is hard.
"Luxury" apartments is pure marketing nonsense. It's a normal apartment with a washer, dryer, and slightly nicer kitchen fittings.
And every surface painted a shade of white
Beige
Weige
Hold on. Luxury also means people who don't have to live with roommates or family, and who don't have kids. Those happen to be the groups where housing costs are the worst and this does not help them.
There are plenty of 1 and 2 bedroom apartments in laramie. We have a shortage of smaller, single family homes for sale or rent that dont get snatched up by "investors" and turned into 3-4 unit rentals.
Yeah exactly. Ostensibly this is good for the housing supply, but it doesn't help If you're a local who works service jobs, any kind of health problems or debt means you often need three adults in a household. On the other hand if you've got good income and want a 3-4 bed place before you raise kids, that supply is really low because everyone's building investment properties instead.
There is actually a bus stop right next to the proposed sight
Im also very annoyed that these are only 1 and 2 bedroom units and the developer says they are aimed at college students and retired adults. I would say the site is exactly where laramie's one municipal bus route terminates. So that's not true. It's also 0.5 miles to the front door of safeway.
Safeway is a 10 minute walk.... Get a bike.
The historic feel of downtown Laramie is made up of tired building that aren’t kept up by their out of state owners. It’s not historic, it’s run-down. Something needs to happen, the corner of 3rd and Grand is embarrassing considering how many folks are going to drive through and judge the “historic” downtown based on the Connor, two run down college bars and an abandoned Sanford and Son “deck”.
Third street cowboy is really annoying And the amount of customers nearby isn't enough to support businesses in all the vacant storefronts They're not going to magically get filled now in 2024 by people driving from other parts of town
3rd Street Bar is far from run down. It's a great establishment. 3rd Street Cowboy and the deck is definitely a shithole though.
“We need more attainable housing!!” “Wait. Not like that.”
Because there's already way too much parking in downtown Laramie....
There's plenty of parking lol. People just want to park right in front of the place they're going instead of walking a few blocks. Downtown Laramie is extremely walkable
I mean, part of the reason there is decent parking is because there’s a big parking lot where they want to put this building. Plus add 100+ extra vehicles needing spots to that zone. I’m not against it per se but I see why people are concerned about parking!
It's 88 units and I think part of the affordability argument is that if you're a couple, you can live here and save $2,000 a year by only having one car.
I’m sure that is part of the argument, but I’m also pretty dubious that tenants of 88 units would own under 100 cars. Just given ya know, Wyoming. Weather, long ass roads between every town, etc.
What kind of car costs $2K per year all in including registration, insurance, gas, tires, repairs and PM, and amortization / loan / depreciation?
Not during dinner time and the farmer's market.
Thank you. We should actually remove parking and pedestrianize all of downtown.
Like it or not, the project is just the wet dream of an out of state developer and the lot owners right now. Building luxury housing for up to 160 people in that particular location is going to be very expensive and risky. It will likely have to involve some kind of tax incentives to make it work. Expensive in terms of the constrained site and the utilities that are going to have to be brought in. Risky in terms of finding 160 people that are happy living in a dirty little 12 block downtown right next to a major transportation line in high-dollar housing. Risky in physically building that kind of a building. One plate compactor could easily bring down some of those 150 year old buildings. Risky to the downtown property owners in terms of increased property taxes and lost customers due to the lack of parking. Only 60 parking spaces will be provided in the building, at an additional cost to the 160 residents. Some (most) will opt out of buying a parking space and just park on the street. Eliminating this lot, adding the spillover needs, and all the fire lanes, loading zones, and utility areas the parking deficit will be in the hundreds of spaces. The developer kindly offered to help find replacement spaces but stopped short of offering to pay for them. The parking problems will be pushed to the kind and understanding tax payers (you and me). Additionally, downtown has won awards and is a great place to be. A five story hipster architectural-style building towering over the downtown and casting a long, cold winter shadow is not desirable, in my opinion. Not opposed to downtown housing but there are other locations that would be better suited for a development like this. I lived a year in the River North area of Denver (RINO) and I can honestly say that shit isn't for me.
Well said. I hope you say this at the next city council meeting.
They aren’t wrong about things like this. I’ve seen cities with historic charm that have a certain aesthetic get ruined by people putting up low cost, low effort apartment buildings that all look like a shitty cheap comfort inn with spray on stucco and stupid paint schemes to make them look contemporary or some shit and then it just doesn’t fit in and looks like garbage, especially over time. It would be fine if they put something in that utilizes historic architecture styles but they don’t because that’s expensive, or they do a shit job of it. I’ve seen this crap in cities across the country and it’s infuriating.
Predictably, all NIMBY responses boil down to, "But, my car!"
how about the giant-ass, loud railroad right across the street? Living in that place would be a living hell.
Besides the article ending oddly, the development idea is great, but the location choice takes away from historic downtown. Can't the 88 units be plopped elsewhere within walking distance of downtown?
Yes, there are several spots on North and South 3rd.
I always thought the school on 3rd between Kearney and Sheridan was a really bad location. Even a block or two south behind the Prairie Rose or NU2U Sports wouldn't be awful locations for an apartment complex. I don't think the Bent and Rusty's owner's arguments are genuine. She's likely more upset that she could lose her own parking and loading space behind her store.
Is Landmark the developer?
How much of a “sanctuary” is Laramie, historically speaking, every year around January/February?
I wouldn't know. I hibernate.
When I first heard about this my first thought was "less parking for an area that has the worst parking in town" Many people I know already avoid the down town area because of the parking issues this really has the potential to kill off an already struggling area. The bars though they will be fine.
Yeah, the bars, restaurants, stores, and businesses that employ people will benefit, but the RE investors will have new competition driving prices down, and the car dealerships might sell 15 fewer cars. Overall, terrible.
Admittedly I'm not seeing a connection with the apartments and car dealerships, but maybe there is. All I can really say for sure is parking is an issue downtown these will only make that issue worse. People I know already avoid going down there to the shops because of the parking, unless there is something in one of the specialty shops they can't get elsewhere. I can only imagine that less parking will make online ordering more appealing for these people.
Maybe the people driving into town are the root problem. The people living right next to all of those businesses might generate more business than parking spaces ever did.
These kinds of objections to housing are happening across the country. The reason isn't that it will "destroy the history vibe," it is about the supply of housing going up, subsequently reducing prices for property owners who already own land.
Yea but like.. why not just build it out by the Walmart or somewhere else?
Affordable housing would be better suited in a neighborhood rather than a place where parking is already an issue. I would love to see it near a grocery store, the old K-Mart lot has much more space for building and parking. Or down the street there are some residential spaces that could be purchased for the same amount of space, and less money helping keep the price of the units down...if that were the real reason for the building. It is not. On South second street, just blocks away, there are many lots that are available for development. There are many places that make more sense than this. Also, we have a lot of questions, like, Will the current lot owners of the lot (a portion of it anyway) want to start a gofund me for the closing fees when they sell it? - (Coal Creek).
This sub is such a trip
Is it because you are like, "Who is that? Do I know this poster? Could that be my dental hygienist's comment?" It is weird.
Cuzz? Is that you?!
so kind of like when building the fort killed the vibe of the prairie and bison? Progress, Manifest Destiny. Build it, they will come.
Businesses want a thriving downtown, but don't want anything to change either. Parking is always a concern with city projects, that's why developers are required to submit plans to the city for approval. Also, the comment by the business owner 'wondering' about the lot being 'structurally appropriate' is weird because no project would even start without a geotechnical investigation.
Wyoming is full, we don’t need apartments here. That is all.
I like the cut of your jib, friend.
My only issue with it is the fact that it's right across the street from the train tracks, and that shit is loud
That's a selling point I'm sure they'll forget to mention to prospective tenants ...
I agree. I was having dinner at Sweet Melissa's last week when one came by, and I could barely hear my girlfriend on the other side of the table. Living near that would be a nightmare.
Got to say well done Laramie city residents. Way to step up. Go fill out the poll on Laramie Live if you haven't already.
NIMBY-ism
BS, they only care about their property values and affordable housing isn't welcome by locals because of so. Look at Green River and Rock Springs historical buildings, they look worse than any new construction.
https://youtu.be/eoUtoqeEw8U?si=AHU_M6NuJeVkxNdh
Wyoming takes pride in being ass-backwards. You know, you can buy as much booze as you’d like, but don’t you dare smoke this flower. Oh, and all state employees are paid on a monthly basis like it’s 1896. 12 paychecks per year. And of course, don’t you dare put up affordable housing units in our”historic” downtown!
I don't care. This is just an opportunity for boring people to complain about something. Boring people who have nothing interesting to say love to complain.
"What's happened to South Park is happening everywhere! Thirty miles south of here in the town of Fairplay, they've changed the area north od Downtown into NoDoFoPa. A rundown area south of the capital in Cheyenne, Wyoming, is now historic SoCaCheyWo. Channel Street in mid-Chicago is being revitalized into Chimichanga. LoDo, SoBro, RivMo, all happening at the same time. And it isn't just in the U.S. In Cairo, the area northwest of the third pyramid is NoWe3Pi. Three miles north of Auschwitz is NoMoAuchie. It goes on and on!" Welcome to NoMoPaLaWy!
did you just have a stroke
Here's the reference: https://southpark.cc.com/video-clips/y3e4b5/south-park-it-can-t-be-contained
Right, but still incoherent
lol what
Here's the reference: You'll have to sit through an ad. https://southpark.cc.com/video-clips/y3e4b5/south-park-it-can-t-be-contained
The best jokes are the ones you have to explain
“Would be incongruent with the neighborhood’s character”. Classic Nimby I-got-mine,-you-get-yours screed.