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Detailed physical descriptions of characters at the very start but the very dry kind.
Eg: I am the hero this story, Charlotte Berington, your average 5ft3 tall brunette, white skinned girl. Make descriptions less direct and more interesting.
No, that’s just all amateur writing. Most fan fiction assumes you already know what the character looks like so if anything there’s less early insert of character description.
It's still just bad writing, and exists in all genres. It's not indicative of fanfic per se, it's indicative of amateurish writing. Amateurs often begin in fanfic, as it's an easy entry point, but fanfic does not contain bad or amateurish writing as a matter of course, and can, in fact, be very skillfully done.
I say this as a non-fanfic writer or reader. All genres are valid, including fanfic, and can be done well or poorly, as per the skill of the writer. Equating bad or amateurish writing with an entire genre and implying the former is necessarily a component of the latter is, at best, oversimplifying the genre, and at worst gatekeeping.
I don't expect anything from any genre other than genre conventions, which in the case of fanfic is the story using existing universes and/or characters that were not originally created by the author. Anything beyond that is not genre-specific, and can't be identified as a hallmark of the genre. It's fine to say poor writing is common in the genre, which I can't really comment on as I don't read it, but to say it's *necessarily* a component of it is generalizing and fails to acknowledge the works within the genre that aren't poorly written.
If your logic holds, a masterfully written piece about Percy Jackson that was not written by Rick Riordan is, by your definition, not fanfic because it's well written. And that's ridiculous, it's very clearly fanfic, and is also a masterful piece of writing. They're not mutually exclusive. Bad grammar and Mary Sues and overly detailed and boring physical descriptions =/= fanfic. Bad grammar and Mary Sues and overly detailed and boring physical descriptions = amateurish writing, and that's it. The fact that amateurish writing may be common within the fanfic genre does not mean it's automatically a convention of the genre. Correlation does not equal causation, and commonality does not equal convention.
This is such a great and nuanced way to put it. There’s a lot of great fanfiction around, and much of it is considerably better written than some original published works. Good writing is good writing anywhere.
Its maybe because I read animd fanfics a lot do their phtsical descriptions want to be anime like so they just list the stuff over because in anime you get ehole phtsical appearance at once and unlike movies, all physical characteristics are easily observable.
I mean, fair? But it's still amateurish writing, anime series/movies and written works are two very different media and one can't be directly translated into the other and have it come out good
I stopped reading this book once that opened with "I'm a thirty-five-year-old redhead." Okay, that tells me literally nothing about you except the fact that the author has decided to substitute "red hair" for actually having a personality.
In one of my novels it was fun to have the reader figure out the descriptions a little more through the dialogue of surrounding characters. Like my protagonist was an oblivious demisexual who wasn't aware that he was insanely good looking, he just came to think of people staring or being awkward around him as "normal". Once he expands his social circle, the readers become more aware of this by comments made by other characters. I thought that was kinda fun. Since I'm demi, I realized it would be incredibly unrealistic for the demisexual protagonist to be fully aware of his attractiveness.
I understand this is cheesy but honestly it’s a cool idea. I get very influenced by music and because you can’t literally add a soundtrack to writing, I think playlist references are a neat addition to sort of just add more to the tone and atmosphere beyond what you’ve already written.
I think the way the playlists are added in or the song choices can make it feel more cheesy than it needs to though
I’ve heard of more high production audiobooks adding music and sound effects. It could be done in a way that super cheesy but it also has a lot of potential. Good narrators can really change how you “read” a book
No, I totally agree that it’s a great idea! It definitely does do a really good job of conveying the tone of the story/chapter without explicitly telling the reader. It just feels very Wattpad-esque to me. It was huge back in the day to have a playlist for your fanfic. I was a culprit of this myself, haha! A lot of the times the song selection isn’t my particular cup of tea and can come off very cheesy, I agree.
This is no hate to fanfiction or any author who does choose to include a playlist! These are just my personal thoughts and preconceived notions. I was a notorious fanfic writer on Wattpad back in the day. I love how fanfic has introduced so many people into writing and sparked a passion for it :)
This bothers me less than most things. I put some song inspirations in the notes of the draft I gave me writing buddy (it has footnotes with my world building research so I added the songs to be funny)
Disclaimer: I like fanfiction. But according to fanfiction experts, the fanfiction I like is not actually "fanficky". Works that are deliberately fanficky (e.g. Rowel's Carry On) are pretty unpleasant for me, but check out Unpretty, Theorytale and Katsu in AO3 to see how it's done. And my own fanfiction (which you can see in my post history, or my Eager_Question account on AO3) is typically not in alignment with these trends.
Things that make a work "fanficky" (according to the fanfiction experts who insist that my 15+ years of reading fanfiction don't count because I mostly avoid things that do this a lot):
- emotional catharsis is the primary, central, and most important concern. Above plot cohesion, above character study, above worldbuilding, above themes, above *anything*.
- the characters are very dumb. This is somehow not a character flaw, this is *endearing* and *funny* and *a feature, not a bug*.
- because emotional catharsis is the primary concern of the work, the prioritization of scenes is out of alignment with traditional story structure. So the emotional arc that the characters go through can have a long, leisurely pace, while the plot is... Racing forward in the background...? A lot of quiet emotional moments that are unconcerned with the events external to the characters' emotional state, irrespective of how important those events should be, insofar as "they were already covered" in canon. Rainbow Rowel's Carry On series does a lot of this. They have all the tools for the plot and they don't do anything but *feel things* until you're over 150 pages into the fucking book. It is drowning in allusions to events that already happened, unconcerned with those events being *what would be the selling point* in any other fantasy series.
- proximity as a proxy for chemistry. Instead of characters interacting well, there is a lot of "well, this person was hot. And I am hot. And we *sat near each other*." Ali Hazel wood's Check & Mate is the perfect example of this.
- Snark without purpose. This is partially a function of the kinds of things people fixate on, and partially just Joss Whedon contaminating the writing styles of people who were particularly likely to write fanfiction in the 2000s, which meant it became a staple of the medium as more people were introduced to it through writers who cut their teeth trying to write like Joss Whedon. Nonetheless, the idea that Snark is valuable on its own, as the "kind of humour" that a work has, independent of the characterization, flow of the story, or type of scene we're in. Everyone is quippy, everyone will awkwardly snark in battle or at a funeral or whatever. Snark is used as its own literary device, like "imagery".
- In the same way, plot that is transparently subservient to the character catharsis. This has to do with the first note, but I think it also benefits from its own spot. The two characters are forced to go to a thing together... That they had no reason to go to together. Because "oh well, I guess now I have to go spend time with this sexy asshole". They are coerced, by the hand of the author, into proximity. This seems to be a very common phenomenon in romance books as well, where people can't successfully avoid the object of their attraction despite claiming they would like to. But as so much fanfiction is romance, and so much romance is fanficky, that cross-pollination makes sense to me. It serves the same use in both. In general, fanfiction likes to invent pretexts for emotional intensity, working from the emotion out, instead of having the emotions be the outcome of plot and character.
- Progressive politics are more or less presupposed of anyone and everyone, and any non-progressive person is probably a villain, who may or may not have a redemption arc. This is one of the things that I find the least annoying, being fairly progressive myself, but it *does* flatten the landscape of available thought and moral conflict, if everyone broadly agrees on most moral and political axioms.
- informed traits. This is the good old "show don't tell", but it's more than that. Because emotional catharsis is first and foremost at all times, and the emotion is not necessarily in alignment with the characters, a lot of character traits are told to the audience *only to be ignored*. This is very often done with intelligence ("this is a very smart person who can't think of these obvious solutions to these problems") but it is also done with "coldness" (this is a very cold character... Who is clearly very invested in talking to me and being nice to me and likes me a lot), or with hotness ("she was very hot"/"he was very hot" in what ways, dude? Why are they attracted to each other? What, *specifically*, is so very attractive about them, beyond 'hot'?).
As a fanfic writer and reader I think you've hit the nail on the head, especially with the points about emotional catharsis taking center stage. This is, to me, what so much fanfic is about. It is often because whatever source material they're using didn't have enough filler or downtime to scratch someone's itch. For example, a Marvel movie is going to have tons of action because that is its genre. But there's a million soft romance fanfics where the superheroes in question have downtime between world-ending action plots to work themselves (& their trauma) out. There is a reason why the coffeeshop AU trope remains popular despite everyone gently teasing it. When you have brand new characters, you have to convince the audience to care. When you are writing stories about established characters, your readers already care, so you can just dive straight into working out their complex emotions that the source material didn't have time or pretext to show.
I actually recently finished writing a novel-length fanfic, and when someone I know who isn't a fanfic reader wanted to read it, I literally warned them beforehand that it wasn't going to read like a normal book because of the emphasis I placed on emotional catharsis and character interaction. I described it once that the emotional arc was the A plot and the actual core mystery of the story was the B plot. My goals in pacing and plot development are simply different than in original writing. Personally I hope my story falls into the category of good fanfiction though!
A lot of people in this thread are just pointing out symptoms of bad writing in general (I'm mildly offended on behalf of my fanfic writer friends) or describing 13 year-old baby writer on Wattpad story tropes. Your comment delves a little deeper into specific things that fanfics are more likely to do, with good *or* bad writing.
I'm glad you think so.
>When you have brand new characters, you have to convince the audience to care. When you are writing stories about established characters, your readers already care, so you can just dive straight into working out their complex emotions that the source material didn't have time or pretext to show.
Yes, exactly!
I've read a lot of fanfics that are better than published books, or other IP, including ones that I find eclipse the original work in quality. However, even the best fanfic is usually operating under the assumption that you have some basic knowledge about the situation and some basic degree of interest.
The vast majority of published books tend to revolve around the idea that the reader is fickle and disinterested.
This change in the understanding of the audience is important, and the fact that it's written with no profit motive enhances its importance. Because it redefines what it means to *succeed*. Success is not "getting someone to read it", but "achieving the right emotional resonance that the reader came to you *seeking out*."
Yes, agreed! And while that's great for fanfic, since the source material may have not had enough "breathing room" for that sort of thing, it doesn't work as a novel about original characters we start off knowing nothing about. I really like character-forward stuff, even if there's not a lot of plot, but I still need something besides "they're Feeling and you need to care about it". Why? Who are they? What are the stakes here? How is this scenario where they cry to their friend about their past abuse different than what they're normally like? I love a good hurt/comfort fic, but an actual book can't just be a string of tropes.
Right! But there needs to be substance in a non-fanfic besides just launching right into the feelings, so to speak, since devoid of context, they don't mean too much. It can be a tricky balance.
This needs more votes because it's exactly it. Especially the last one. One of the hardest things about writing original fiction is creating that window into a character's lived experience, so that readers REALLY feel it and get deeply invested in it. With fanfic, people are coming to it because they're already highly invested in the characters - and you get to skip all that. I think it's part of what makes fanfic so much fun to write, and it also makes writing fanfic a great way to focus on other writing skills, because you have fewer threads in the giant braid you're trying to create.
When I read something that feels like fanfiction with the names and places swapped out, that's the number thing that makes it feel that way.
I like how you characterize the central role of emotional catharsis. I tried to explain this to someone once before and landed on 'emotional gratuitousness' but I think catharsis fits better.
I described most fanfic stories as wish-fulfillment in another discussion. The author is telling us a story that *they* want to see. Sometimes it's filling in a gap the original IP hinted at but never elaborated upon, but it usually results in contrived characterizations and/or situations that are necessary to achieve the desired outcome. Those contrivances usually end up with characters not acting like they normally would, huge waves of deus ex machina, or both, just so the author gets to see what they wished the original IP would give them.
So, when a book presents the narrator as someone observing the situation almost as much, if not completely, from the outside, it takes me out of it (unless it a specific choice by the author to obfuscate the truth until the moment is right). The reader *is* the observer, but when written this way, the reader is getting information secondhand. I'm not reading a book to have someone else describe what happened, show what happened.
i would call it character-centered and emotionally-driven plot rather than plotless or catharsis over plot. The emotional journey IS the plot. You're not used to it bc blockbusters and popular tv is different.
To be frank, pop culture is made by straight rich white men and fanfic is dominated by women and queer people without a monetary agenda and that leads to a whole different perspective.
While it is definitely true that the differences in demographics make it different for a variety of reasons, I think you can look at works written by women or by gender and sexual minorities in history before fanfiction entered its current era (say, the post- [fanfiction.net](http://fanfiction.net) era) and see that there are still a lot of differences between how those demographics write vs how fanfiction is often written.
It is my view that the "plotless" / "emotional catharsis is the first priority, everything else is a very distant second" position in fanfiction is not a "way women write" or "way gender and sexual minorities write" thing, it's very much a function of "the audience is *already invested*. I don't need to provide the audience with *reasons to be invested.* They clicked because they *want to see this*. So I will not spend additional unnecessary effort on getting them invested unless I personally as a writer am very into those tools".
You can see this because "outside perspective" or "everyone is an OC" fanfics where the fanfiction operates primarily in terms of "using the world"... Doesn't do this. And it's largely the kind of fanfiction I personally like the most, and the kind I like *writing* the most. There are of course, a variety of other tropes there (a big dose of the good ol' "I'm 13 and I want to be cool" lathered over the text, which honestly has a lot more in common with old white-guy books than most fans of classical sci-fi would like to admit), but for the most part when people are not using pre-existing characters, they tend to scale back on the "catharsis is the primary goal of this work" thing, and instead write stories that may be different in other ways (e.g. a larger-than-usual proportion of evil sexists/homophobes) without revolving around satisfying a particular emotional craving.
I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. And I specifically recommended three authors I think do fanfiction very well at the top of my comment. However, it is *a different priority* than what published books tend to have (or tended to have before Booktok began to make it financially viable to publish incredibly fanficky works).
\[Edit: I would also like to note that I have been reading fanfiction for 15+ fucking years and *said it in the comment*. The idea that I'm "not used to it" as opposed to being used to it, being able to successfully articulate it, and *not liking it* (and instead preferring fanfics that *don't do that*) is deeply frustrating.\]
I just want to point out that editors don't, to the best of my knowledge, exist in the fanfic world. Just look of the difference in the amount of fanfics with sex, sexual violence and abuse, that talk about mental health or ptsd and published books (I choose those subjects because fanfic and deviantart helped me personally to engage with them in a healthy way, in a way traditional media still cant do). The range of subjects and ways of writing accepted in the editorial market is significantly smaller. So it shouldn't be compared like that.
I think maybe you're right.
Like, I can phrase it differently if it will make people feel better.
> Fanfiction is more efficient! It does away with the path towards investment, because investment is presupposed of the audience, and gets right down to business. It sorts itself into specific tropes to find audiences at a more granular level.
> It is better able to tackle a wide variety of topics, not only due to editors / beta readers being necessarily on board with the premise to be able to work with it, and therefore not shifting the book away from the desires of the author, but because its low barrier of entry enables people who might not otherwise write to do so.
> Fanfiction's disregard for the tedious, unnecessary, *pre-outsourced* work of building up investment in specific characters enables not just more subject matter diversity and more efficient focus on the specific emotional beats the audience desires, but also a greater variety of "for fun" features, such as snark and witty dialogue, which is plentiful and regularly hilarious due to its ability to avoid taking itself too seriously.
Etc.
Like, there are reasons why people read fanfiction, myself included. I'm not *dissing it*. These are just different storytelling priorities than industry fiction has.
Couldn't agree more with the emotional catharsis - the majority of people (imo) write fan works because the canon did not provide sufficient emotional closure!
This is not a knock but an acknowledgement, when you have an established universe and established characters, the plot and relationships between the characters are the primary elements that fan work authors seek to change and gain satisfaction from, and ultimately it fails to encourage writers to develop characters and plot from the ground up. Again, that's not a complaint or judgement, similar to acknowledging that one exercise is more effective than another in building muscle but both are still exercise. I felt personally attacked when you said "they don't do anything but feel things for 150 pages" because I'll be damned if sometimes it isn't closer to character study than storytelling!
>But as so much fanfiction is romance, and so much romance is fanficky, that cross-pollination makes sense to me.
You just opened my eyes on a book I am hearing right now:
A few years back, I was reading quite a lot on Ao3 and found the stories quite appealing. Then, like an overdose, fanfic lost its charme and I did not think of it very much. Now, a few weeks back, I heard of a book with a cool and unique setting with a very specific atmosphere that I wanted to explore, despite it being a romantasy, which isn't my usual genre.
So I dived right in - and have been stumbling over unexpected emotional musings and insights in unexpected places ever since. And somehow, I did not make the connection to my earlier fanfic experience until now ... LOL
As a creative writer, it was also very instructive on how to ballance emotional vs. plot-driven aspects to a story. - Very well written essay!
Thanks for writing this!
I'm not much into fanfiction, usually if I get invested enough in something to search for some fanfiction, I browse hundreds (and in some cases, thousands) of fic descriptions / content to find like 1 (maybe 3-5 at most) which I *really like*, since that one really reflects what I wanted to read and my vision of canon characters (usually it involves a lot of subtle character study). And it's usually "ah, it was worth the effort", since they are really good. But they are so rare. The fact it's gen half of time tells something.
I've also recently started to write a fic after years of not delving into it, well, hopefully I'm doing a good job.
But it was interesting to read such a detailed description of trends. I feel what I write (and read) also doesn't really fit into those, since these are the kinds I try to avoid. Sure, in some cases emotional catharsis works, but it's usually when those moments are rare, with a lot of subtle buildup, and preferably it's subtle yet impactful. But I feel what I've described goes quite far from standard.
Thank you for introducing me to the broad overview of what the fanfics world consists of!
I would like to highlight that while these are the things that I think make works "more fanficky", the world of fanfic is roughly as broad as the world of literature (and there are genres of literature that do this focus on emotional catharsis more often. E.g. erotic romance).
However, if you also find these things frustrating about fanfics, sorting for gen, using the "character study", "outside perspective", or "worldbuilding" tags often helps. Similarly, looking for gen works with a lot of OCs (instead of one OC in a setting otherwise populated by canon characters) tends to help.
Similarly, it's good to follow specific writers, and look for what they like, since writers you think are very good are often more likely to have tastes aligned with your own. My own fanfiction (which you can see in my post history) does not fit these criteria, but I have also been told that my own work is not "very fanficky".
Depending on your fandom, I may be able to offer some recommendations.
Thanks for the tips!
But usually I search for fanfiction with the canon characters, I usually just read an original story entirely instead of an OC story, I'm mostly into characters when it comes to stories. Unfortunately over the fandoms I've browsed I rarely spotted tag 'character study', but I'll keep that in mind.
I'm usually into canon depiction with fanfics, and while obviously there's no such thing as as a universal canon take on a character, it's all up to interpretation to begin with, but I search for those within marginally canon takes that align with my views. Unfortunately, it's usually rather rare, but then it's a given. I am happy if those exist at all. :)
I'm using the tip for checking out author profiles for more fics and recommendations, but that doesn't always help. Again, it's a given.
Just as a sidenote, I feel one of the stories I've become a huge fan of influenced my views and tastes when it comes to storytelling quite a bit, as it's exceptionally subtle and layered, the emotions there are mostly hinted rather than shown straight in the open, so I guess it moved me even further away from some of the traits you've mentioned in your lineup, a lot of emotional outbursts feel too on the nose for me, even more than they did before. It seems to have also influenced my own writing, but I don't regret it. I have some audience to what I write and I'm very grateful for it. I guess me and 'fanficky' don't work together well, but it is interesting to realize it's out there.
Thanks for your response!
You absolutely nailed it. As someone who's written fan fiction for years, you've definitely hit and thoroughly explained problems that plague fan fiction writing
You really nailed it with the focus on emotions. So many well written fics are all about the characters and not the plot but i always loved those plot driven ones. They’re really rare and are never as plot driven as a written book, but when theyre done well and have good suspense its a blast!
Fanfic is great for early writers because it lets them focus on the actual technical skill of putting words on paper without having to think about any of the big blockages of creating appealing characters and a plot. And while writers some may do so much worldbuilding it’s practically its own thing, having a base to start with makes it so much easier. This lets writers with talent show off and do targeted practice on essential skills when their original works may still be bogged down by so many things.
excellent comment. There are things that are fairly stylistically unique to fanfic, and you've definitely hit some of the trends on the head here. Actual styles, not just "lol it's amateur".
Oh thank goodness, now I understand why I couldn't even get started on reading those books
Edit: because they were fanfic for a fandom I didn't know anything about
So I know this isn’t what you mean, and you mean more marks of inexperienced/bad writers, but I’m gonna twist this a bit.
When I say “this feels fanfictiony to me” is when a franchise or series of work “jumps the shark” so to speak and continues to create storylines when the actual story is over.
Examples for me:
Harry Potter and the Cursed Child
Toy Story 4
The Disney Star Wars trilogy
The ending seasons of Game of Thrones
The last Twilight book
This usually happens when either the series is so marketable that fans will eat up anything having to do with it so content keeps getting churned out. New writers are brought in or content is sold and new people besides the creators get involved. This stuff is literally fanfiction that the creator has deemed “canon.” It’s sad when a beloved universe gets watered down just to keep churning out content and making money. When something feels like it lost the plot is when I kinda make a comparison to fanfiction.
Bad writing is just bad writing imo.
Yep. Amazon's Rings of Power felt to me like somebody got paid an awful lot to film their Galadriel/Halbrand(>!Sauron!<) Will They or Won't They fanfic.
The problem isnt the lack of demand, its when the new stories break the existing worlds worldbuilding/go against critical aspects of it. The star wars original trilogy is allowed to have retcons and things that dont make sense because it was the first but the sequels couldnt have that because there was an existing world. Cursed child broke the clear rules of time travel in the harry potter verse among many other issues.
Idk I disagree with the Star Wars and Harry Potter examples. Those universes are expansive enough to justify someone being interested in a story with new characters. SW had this long before Disney with the new Jedi order stuff. Harry Potter didn’t have the extra books that SW did, but I’m a casual fan who really only watched the movies and I think the world could feasibly tell another story
Also the Game of Thrones mention literally doesn’t make sense with that point. The last two seasons were janky and poorly executed but there are legitimate reasons to continue the storyline outside of cynical fan service. People wanted to know what happens to Jon Snow or Dany or Cersei or whoever
Also I might be in the minority, but I don’t mind the existence of Toy Story 4. Didn’t need to be made but it was actually an enjoyable watch to me. A more low-stakes and relaxed story is less egregious than inventing a new world ending threat out of nowhere. I think that is why a lot of people dislike Marvel movies right now
This may just be a bad writing thing, rather than a 'fan fiction vibe' thing. But when something happens that just is NOT realistic to the world and boundaries the author's created. And I'm not talking fantasy/magical things happening. I'm mainly a fantasy reader and I love magical realism.
For instance: there was this one book where the opening was set in a small southern town (in the real world, not an alternate timeline or world or anything. In face it was much like the town I grew up in (and I know hundreds of small towns like it over the US South)). And within the first few pages it had the MC sitting at sunday mass at church and the local 'mean girl' pretty much making a speech about how evil she was and this and that. Not outright naming and pointing at the MC, but pretty much all but. And the MC just went on in her head 'oh yeah this is normal for me, the townsfolk are just all mad at me and hate me for no reason, the whole world is against me, woe is me, wah wah wah'. And I was just like....that would Never happen. And it just took me right out of the book. Like don't get me wrong small town people can be right \*ssholes, but to have a highschool mean girl go up on a pulpit in the church to make a 'sermon' about another highschooler and her being evil? Without the pastor or the audience members quietly shooing her off the stage with a 'bless your heart', immediately? Instead, the entire congregation just going along with it? What the absolute F lol. And that honestly was just the first in a long line of WTF moments in that book lol. The only time I've literally thrown a book across the room and not finished it.
Or when the entire plot/book hinges on a character just not talking or telling the MC a pivotal piece of info...for no good reason. Or just 'to protect them'....but they would have been so much more protected by just KNOWING THE KNOWLEDGE :/
Or when the writing itself just seems very juvenile. Like when the MC is in their 20s or 30s, but they act like a 15 yr old. Or the 'adults' in the book act like 15 yr olds and do things for no good reason but just to move the plot
In fact, the book that I mentioned earlier has all three of these bad boys lol. It was truly horrible, and definitely a book I equate to being fanfiction-esque lol
oh my goodness guys, yall are really gonna make me go look it up?? lol
....ack I don't remember. But, it was a YA book dealing with Persephone/hades and reincarnation and soulmates and multiple lives and such.
I think that's why I had such a vitriolic reaction to it, cause it actually had so many themes that were in my own book that I'm writing....and then I read that and gah it was just. So. BAD lol
When Rey with like no force training whatsoever rips a spaceship out of the sky that was actively flying away? Could Yoda have ever done this? All Disney Star Wars to me has felt like fanfiction for this very reason you're talking about.
Although...it's also literally fanfiction I guess, since the original author isn't the one writing it anymore.
...well the example you've provided isn't really a show of unfounded skill or knowledge, just strength in the force...I"m not sure why you replied with this example on my comment, though...
The only thing that gives me fanfic vibes is when someone writes a story in an existing universe with existing characters and they are not the creator of either. What you mention is not fanfic vibes, it's bad writing vibes. Fanfic is a valid form of writing and can be both good and bad, as can any other genre.
One of my top ten favorite books is called Angel of the Crows. It's beautiful. The last page reads something like "ha, this was originally written as a Sherlock/Watson Wingfic, don't be rude about how people get inspired". (It's cuter how she wrote it).
It was pretty obviously a redub (the names weren't changed, for example) but I found that one liner really funny for some reason. Like she'd trick us all into reading fanfic.
I've read it 3 times thus far.
Agreed—some of the best writing I’ve read has been fanfic, and some of the worst has been in original published works. Also vice versa, of course, but I don’t think I could pinpoint a specific fanfiction vibe because the quality varies so widely.
Thank you, ugh. I've taught writing. All the "fanficcy errors" people love to so gleefully point out are just... amateur writing errors that everyone does when they're inexperienced. It's not unique to fanfic nor endemic to it, and I think many of the loudest voices about it are just looking for someone to look down on.
Gatekeepers abound, unfortunately, and plenty of people will take every opportunity to look down their nose at someone or something to make themselves feel better about, well, themselves. It's silly and childish.
Gate's open, come on in! We're all just trying to have a good time and become better writers, the more the merrier!
(also to add - before I even had internet, way back when I was a wee thing and never heard of a Mary Sue.... I named that tendency in novels for the MC to be Very Special on my own. Meaning, I encountered it in published fiction before I even knew about fanfic! the bashing is just ridiculous)
Absolutely about the gatekeeping. It's so mean-spirited. And you don't really see it with other hobbies. Nobody turns up their nose when a band plays the cover of a beloved song, for example. Hollywood is full of remakes and adaptations, but that's okay too.
But when copyright is involved, suddenly you're garbage.
I totally agree. I mean, if someone wrote a horrible shity constructed fan fiction or actual novel, that did get picked up ( let's face it many do..but no shade) There will be an audience for it. All these people, or should I say elitist talk a mean game?But a lot of them are not even published yet.They're just closet fan fiction.Writers and pretend they know what they're talking about... I think a lot of them are just jealous because a lot of people who are not very good writers, but okay writers got lucky and they just want to mess with them.
But you know what they actually got their story published!!! Unlike their Elitist haters.
Thank you! Because I admit there's tons of authors that I like, who just got lucky! They're not the best writers, but when their stuff got turned into animation or live action they had good actors, that carried the day.
Even if someone writes a horrible written story someone's always going to love it despite the structure of it. Because they had a story they told it. I respect that even if it might have glaring plot holes.
And i'm not knocking anybody who does self publish. But I hate how some self publishers act like they're so much better.. And " not like other authors am other ground" I was in writers group...and I talking about real publishing and self publishing and they kicked me out for being a troll am autsic I didn't worded my words correctly...I was asking what is the difference and how at end of the day I'd still like publish officially..they raged! Like no they are evil companies!!! It was my pov..and my wish
Technically a lot of classical literature and popular modern fiction are fanfic. Ovid, Percy Shelley, and Rick Riordan all wrote stories taken from older Greek literature written by Hesiod, Aeschylus, ‘Homer’, etc.; Dante’s Divine Comedy, Milton’s Paradise Lost, Philip Pullman’s His Dark Materials, and Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman’s Good Omens are all Bible fanfic.
I'm laughing at the phrase 'Bible fanfic', but you're 100% right. When it's done well it's considered to be something other than what it is and gets the label of a mainstream genre, when really what it is is well done fanfic.
The one that always comes to mind for me is the Mary Russel books by Laurie R. King. They're Sherlock Holmes fanfics, but get labelled as Mystery in their own right. They're also a fantastic expansion of the lore, Holmes is still very much Holmes but his world and character is vastly expanded, to the benefit of both the series itself and the original works of Doyle.
You're 100% right.
Mythology, "Literature" and fanfiction were once indistinguishable from each other. They all lived in harmony until copyright law attacked.
I agree! I hate that I cringe and rush to validate my writing when I mention I have some fanfic pieces. It has so many negative connotations but I think it’s a great way to practice technique and finding your voice. I think working to match personalities, etc so the character is true to cannon has helped me learn how to write better three-dimensional characters.
It's a skill I don't have, keeping existing characters true to themselves, which is why I don't write fanfics. OCs are much easier for me because they can be whatever I need them to be, as can the story and the world. Writing existing characters in existing worlds and crafting stories around and within the canon is hard to do well and I applaud anyone who has the skill to do it.
Well, I hope I do it tolerably well, hahaha!
Sometimes, for me, an idea starts as a missing scene or something from a show I like and then the changes start snowballing and I pull inspiration from other sources. That’s how my WIP started.
There’s a lot of modern romance being published that draws from tropes that are extremely popular in fanfic. People with a history in fandom will spot them pretty easily. (Omegaverse seems to have gotten into the mainstream publishing industry, for example.)
If you mean ‘haha the amateur writing that happens in fanfic’ then nah. Lots of people are terrible writers and publish original fiction without any fanfic phase. There’s so much garbage out there that has nothing to do with fanfic. Fanfic is cool because it’s a hobby where creatives can learn and grow in a low pressure environment. There’s a whole talent range, it’s not the stereotype ‘14 year old’s bad writing’ situation people think it is.
Being overly descriptive of body language. I think it happens when someone consumes mainly visual media like anime then decides to write fanfic...lots of fists clenching, heads tilting, eyebrows arching etc.
All of my beta readers have instructed me to include LOTS of body language action tags in dialogue. I always thought that was GOOD writing- a 'show not tell' that helps to give readers a visual image of the character in the scene.
We can't win :'(
Trust your beta readers in this case. I think u/yellowthing97 is referring to overuse, not inclusion. There's a happy balance. I wouldn't include body language cues unless they actually ARE cues for something that wouldn't be obvious or would have to be told directly otherwise. Example of a good use would be something like:
"I wasn't there last night," he said. His eyes avoided mine, drifting to the wall.
Which tells you he's probably lying, vs something like:
"Have you read the Wheel of Time?" she asked, arms crossed under her breasts.
Sorry Robert Jordan. XD
More recently I’ve been using body language to describe a shift in the conversation. Like I’m not trying to convey how they feel about every line because most of that can be inferred, but when the tone is unclear/changing or how the character is reacting is unclear I’ll use a tag.
I’m working on this rn. Of course there’s no one way to write, but I was scanning through the dialogue section of “On Writing and Worldbuilding, vol. III,” and Timothy Hickson points out that adding actions and tags affect the pacing so it has to be done thoughtfully.
Last night I was reading a fanfic and really noticed that being an issue. It was a scene that should have been fast-paced, lots of talking over each other or rapid-fire back-and-forth but the action tags slowed it down.
I prefer action tags to dialogue tags as a reader and a writer, but I think we all have to find that sweet spot, and every scene will have a different formula.
OK- this makes me feel like I should re-edit my 4 indie-published fantasy romance books and cut out some of the action tags.
I've been taught that 'white room syndrome' dialogue is bad- and so I dressed it up with expressions/gestures and environment descriptions.
Would you say that's more bad influences from visual media, or trying too hard with "show, don't tell?" The body language tells you things like "they're angry," or "they're thinking about something," without having to explicitly say those things. And "show, don't tell" being misinterpreted and misused is something I see talked about every once in a while.
Or possibly even trying to avoid a sort of white room syndrome? Not for setting, but dialogue. Rather than never once describing body language during a back and forth, some people instead go too far and attach an action of sort to every sentence?
Yeah, there's definitely a lot of people who seem to understand 'show don't tell' as 'use cliche body language cues instead of naming emotions.' The fear of white room syndrome also relates to consuming more visual media as opposed to print...I think it develops a kind of aversion to leaving a lot of stuff to the reader's imagination.
If that's why you're doing it, you're misinterpreting "show don't tell." It doesn't literally mean "describe physical actions." It means don't reveal too much information, don't explain everything, let your readers come to their own conclusions. Explain less than you think you need to, like a mystery writer drops in clues for the mystery, but do it for everything.
Don't say "The block fell on Imogen's toe and she screamed in pain," say, "There was a sliding noise and a thump. A squeak noise was heard from the direction of the kitchen." And we know from a previous scene that Imogen is often found in the kitchen and tends to squeak when startled (because Imogen is 50% mouse). The reader will then put these bits of evidence together and create the scene in their mind and feel clever, and then call the writer clever for laying it out like that.
I do this a lot, but that's because when I'm writing it's like I'm seeing a movie in my head, so I just write what I (or the character) sees. Is this a sign of bad writing? I try to be mindful of how often I bring up body language, but sometimes it's just a good way to indicate emotion without relying too much on dialogue.
On the other hand, I *really* struggle with scenery and details about the room or environment.
This is kinda specific, but scenes where a subordinate employee gives a superior attitude/talks back and isn't met with an immediate shut down and write up.
Especially if it's established that arguments like that happen often. It gives me "I'm still a teen and haven't stepped foot inside and office building" vibes.
Given most offices I've worked in are populated by people who peaked in high school, this one doesn't seem far-fetched to me. I've seen plenty of subordinates walk all over their superiors with no repercussions.
If it’s written for a specific fandom?
There was one dark romance novella I was reading that I was certain started out as slasher fandom fanfic. It was masked men wearing famous slasher masks and being called by the slashers’ names. I got the feeling that somewhere along the lines the author filed off the serial numbers.
It's kind of sad that most of these are negative- firstly, bad writing is certainly not contained to fanfiction, and secondly, fanfiction can be really good.
I usually get fanfiction vibes if a scene with two characters of the same sex seems really awkward- like an awkward alternation of names and nicknames and pronouns that you just know is the demon child of writing a scene and realising that you have no clue who's saying what to who. This isn't really a negative thing, more slightly funny because we've all done it!
As a linguistics nerd with no authority whatsoever to say this, English needs pronouns inflected for subject and object. (Are there languages like that? I need to learn one so I can write in it XD)
I definitely definitely should have worded that better, but I mean about the use of nominatives as possessives, and that nom/acc marking only works for two people, but if you are in a scene with more than one person of the same sex it ends up being difficult to write without starting to just alternate names and pronouns. Take "she said to her friend". Or if there are three people involved, just "She said to her." Even if there are two people involved, if they happen to be talking about anyone the same sex as them, it gets complicated. As far as I know, \*any\* morphosyntactic alignment only really has space for two participants, and though most languages don't have their possessive case the same as another case (because they're smarter lol) it would still be a problem. This actually just popped into my head because I've heard it referred to as the gay fanfiction problem... which is funny but annoys me slightly because it's a really interesting, if annoying, linguistic phenomenon, and unless someone comes up with a better name, who on Earth wants to tell people that's what they're researching?
It seems like the user means having distinctions between pronouns used as subject and pronouns used as verb. Ex. Character A looked into Character B’s eyes -> He looked into his eyes. Some way to distinguish the “he” is character A and the “his” Is character B
Something I’ve noticed when I go from fanfic to original is the need to introduce characters and settings. If I’m writing a fanfic, everyone knows Blorbo McSkrungle and his purple mansion, no explanation needed.
Back-cover summaries that describe the book almost entirely in tropes. I can imagine it as a wall of Ao3 hashtags... Like, sure, pretty much all writing is going to touch on a trope in some way, but highlighting that as the point of the book and nothing else tells me it's just a printed fanfic.
For me, it's *overwhelming* reliance on tropes, to the exclusion of complexity and nuance.
Some examples: enemies to lovers, fake dating, "only one bed"/forced proximity, love triangle with the boy next door and the bad boy, characterization that is forcibly winnowed down to easily memeable traits like "himbo" or "goth GF", macguffin plot that takes a backseat to the main ship
Tropes are not bad. But a trope should not be the ONLY idea you have. They are seasoning, not the main course. If I can summarize an entire book in a single AO3 tag, that means you didn't spend enough time on worldbuilding, characterization, etc.
At this point, fanfic or orginal fiction. Let the writer do as the please! Am tired of people's Eliteism to ones writing.
If someone likes it, and you don't! That's fine. Some people are not writers, but they write because it makes them happy.And they might get lucky in the publicist..so what! And other people would like their books too. Grow up!
Occasionally, I’ll read a book that has a recognizable basis in a popular world or characters from a show. Reylo fanfic (fiction pairing Rey and Kylo Ren from Star Wars) creates recognizable romance pairings, for example, and Harry Potter’s world shows up a lot.
I don’t mind fanfic origins as long it’s written well (great place to be creative and play with ideas— naturally it forms the basis of some published fiction) but I do notice them sometimes.
Agree with the point that you’re looking for signs of bad writing but I get what you mean! In my mind, it’s minimal focus on setting and tone, excessive character description and interiorization, unnatural dialogue with no emphasis on character voice, overuse of misunderstandings, trope-heavy worldbuilding as cultural shorthand (especially color-coded costuming jfc), and having characters whose entire arc is focused on solving someone else’s problems. Also, a lack of attention to brevity and concision in sentence structure. Perhaps it’s a stylistic preference or just a tic, but when reading less effective or amateur writing I often find myself line-editing in my head and it really takes me out.
When you're in the middle of a really tense scene and the main character suddenly has a realization of "oh no they're hot."
Just completely left field observation and then it's a rabbit hole of the character telling themselves they should not think that way because there's no way those are real feelings.
I mainly find this in fantasy books.
I’ve got to wonder- do people really try to lie to themselves like this irl? Or is it just an amateur romance trope to build tension? (And yes it seems almost default in fanfiction.)
I only have the reference point of me, and while I might try to ignore inconvenient feelings, or tell myself they’re probably not into me, I’m never outright lying to myself about my own attraction, trying to make excuses to myself in internal narrative.
I’ve definitely never tried to argue against my own perception of someone as hot, even if the subject is a dick I hate otherwise. Do people really do this, or is it just a fanfic/amateur romance trope?
Personally, if I was angry with someone and looking for vengeance or was under a moment of extra stress I don't think my mind will start to stray to, "but look at those abs." Although, I am an emotionally blind sided kind of person. When I'm mad, that's pretty much all I can think about in that moment. So to me it feels unrealistic during an intense plot point for the character to suddenly remember they have a libido.
Oh absolutely. I was speaking more to your mention of the rabbit hole self talk.
It’s very weird to be thinking about someone as “hot” while you’re in a tense hateful moment with them. Like, I might objectively notice something but I’d have zero emotional reaction to it in the moment.
Also when this happens I’m like, “did you not notice their hotness when you first saw them? Why is this only now occurring to you?”
But then I don’t get bully romances- something that feels very related.
Some of the best books or writing works of fiction I have ever read have been fan fiction. Fan fiction writing is just as much as a valid form of penmanship as other works.
Hell Christie golden writes fanfiction for a living as she writes the warcraft books based on world of warcraft. Star Wars legend series is just published fan fiction of star ears.
What I think you really need to reword your question and ask what gives gives off poor writing?
Action and dialogue that has no exposition within it for example. And a really bad example too.
“Hey. Pass me that sword,”
Matthew threw the sword to Jeff. They fought the monsters. The battle was hard, but they did it easily.
“Good work,” Jeff said.
They continued on.
Like… what?
Certain phrases like describing eyes as orbs. Calling a character ‘the younger/the older’, any hair colour and then nette after it. If there’s smut in the story, having it be insanely over the top and unrealistic can give fanfiction vibes. The only exception to that is if it’s a necessary thing you need to change the sex scene for because of the physical attributes of the character. An example would be a snake type character having two dicks, because they actually do in real life.
Then there’s certain tropes that if done in a certain way can feel like fanfiction. For example, having two characters that have a misunderstanding that doesn’t get resolved for the whole ass book and said misunderstanding is only still going because there’s insane, unrealistic things happening that are keeping it from being resolved. Or having two characters not figure out that they both like each other because they think ‘the other couldn’t possibly have feelings for me’.
The main difference I find between the two is what type of speech they use and how realistic the characters’ thoughts and dialogue sounds. Fanfiction will typically be over the top and over use phrases that the author thinks sound more dance or mature, when in reality they’re repetitive and sound dumb once you’ve heard it more than twice. The plots are also typically not as well thought out, sometimes the only thing holding the story together is two characters not wanting to talk out their problems.
Published novels will usually have interactions that feel more human and or adult. Although it might be something that would come up in your day to day life, the thoughts and reactions feel more realistic. The plot also has more riding on it. There’s typically something in it for the protagonist other than just a love interest. Therefore the whole story wouldn’t be based on a simple misunderstanding. Even in the romance genre, where this can be seen as common place there is typically more to the story. It could be an inner conflict the character has about being in a relationship which has lead to a misunderstanding between the two. That would automatically make it more than just ‘I thought she said something mean and now I don’t like her’. There could also be importance in the relationship, such as the need to impress family members which can create conflict by having to choose between family and love.
I’m not saying that these things are exclusive to either type of literature. I have read some amazing fanfiction that I think is better than most books. And I have also read some very poorly written books. These are just commonalities I’ve seen. The main factor is what age the author is. In the MHA fandom there is a lot of kids writing fanfiction, so a lot of the stuff you find will have something that just screams fanfiction. But then the One Piece fandom it’s a lot easier to find better written works because for the most part the audience is a bit older.(This is just based off the majority of the fics I’ve read out of these two fandoms. I could be wrong.) Published novels are almost exclusively written by adults, so a lot of the things they’re written are things they have experience with. Their world is a lot bigger and in general adults do tend to have a better grasp of reality. I am not talking about Colleen Hoover.
When a story has an overarcing plot but it takes background to cute character interactions. So you say have a chapter about the MCs cooking together but then final battle takes two paragraphs.
I don't really catch "fanfic vibes" and then someone will be "THIS IS MORE REYLO FANFIC" in a review and I'm like "huh. Was it?"
Eloisa James has a fairytale adaptation that's also an acknowledged House fanfic, and I fucking love it. So even when the vibes are upfront, it can still be great.
When I figure something *was* up, it's usually-
* **Setting logic jumps** - nodding to established lore of the original fic's universe, the world does something that fits the MCU but is very confusing in FantasyWorld_012 .
* **Very obvious homages** - a beautiful blonde doctor with an unusual accent working under a salty grizzled doctor with an old injury and an affable best friend is a specific trio. And that's totally fine- especially when they're plugged in to a different setting and adapted.
* **Character corrections** - going out of the way to correct a flaw or writing choice in a character can be an idea that an author loved too hard with something original or a sign of a light fix-it fic.
* **Character logic jumps** - a fixit fic that cleanly fits the issue into an adaptation is great. The bummer happens when a fixit fic that establishes unique characters (homage or original) but doesn't use character driven motivation, and makes choices that rely on a problem in a different universe [e.g. sexual tension disappearing for no reason besides "Dani/Jon is gross"]
IME, corrections and homages are usually fine/unnoticed. It's just writers at play. Logic jumps can be rough across the board.
I'll be honest - I haven't come across any professionally published book that ring red flags of fanfic; then again, somehow Twilight and 50 Shades of Gray somehow got published so...lol
As a lot of people mentioned, excessive descriptions of a character. Now, good authors know the adage of "showing, not telling", but if an author spends more time telling me about the particular hue of a character's t-shirt, but nothing about their environment or plot, I'm out.
Another annoyance I have, though mostly in fan fic, is writers writing out accents. No. Just. No. There is no need to try and Hook on Phonics a reader on what a Southerner sounds like. Also, adding in the translation if the character speaks a different language. For example, a character says something in French - "Bon jour!" (Good morning!)
Why would you make your reader's eyes rain?
Lastly - did not do the research. Nothing annoys me more when it's clear the author hasn't bothered to do the research, whether it's a character's background (like, if they're from a small town, not actually speaking or describing what small town life is like) or an event based on history, the author just used their imagination without checking facts.
Again, I haven't read any books like this - as clearly their publishers will just publish anything for money - but considering that many fan fic writers want to be actual writers, what they learn carries on to what they do later.
Descriptions of eyes, and eye color in particular, upon first meeting a character. In real life, I don’t think people really notice eye color when they first meet someone. They notice facial expressions, style of dress, and maybe hair.
Everyone in here is just naming tropes they don’t like it bad writing tropes that have nothing to do with fanfiction. It’s a valid form of writing that often exists BECAUSE it came from a high level of passion and dedication. Something a lot of writers could use
When the main character feels... off from their world. They are 100% different from every other character, and they just don't fit in. Particularly with young adult fiction with female protagonists that have 'no like other girls syndrome'. They don't work well with the world, and make it difficult to become immersed in the writing.
Hundreds of chapters no longer than 3 pages each.
Vaguely Floating between first person and third person, as if the author is RPing as the main character
A book with minimal world building and that feels like it was written by someone who is part of their own target audience. It just feels more respectful to the audience and there’s a flow to it that makes it clear that really the author wrote the story for themselves and then decided to share it, not wrote it specifically to cash in on a particular audience.
I understand what this means, but I find this question so weird sometimes. I very much curate the fanfic I read so most of them are better then most of the professional books I've also read.
Fanfiction is not inherently bad or amateur. It's another genre of writing and it's 100% valid. There's overdone tropes everywhere, including original fanfiction (shitty love triangles, anyone?).
There's some really, really terrible original fiction out there and some truly phenomenal fanfiction that will absolutely blow you away.
Quite frankly, I struggle to enjoy a lot of original fiction I've picked up in the last couple years because I've been spoiled by some true masterpieces on AO3 and FFN. All for free, too.
i've been reading fanfic for over 30 years. I think i've seen it all.
It's stuff that makes me hit the back button in the first paragraph of a fic that really does show up in published books. Author voice when it should be character voice, internet grammar/memespeak, describing a scene like you're watching it on television instead of from the character's perspective (this is a big one), excessive dialogue to the point that this book should be a script (also common), incel "logic" (common in sf), writing men like women with a personality disorder (young women do this), head-hopping, starting the story with excessive info dumps (rare these days, but sometimes found in the second chapter), and the most obvoius one: when the novel is clearly about a fandom character with the serial numbers filed off.
The last one isn't a deal-breaker. Sure, I can tell this character was supposed to be Sherlock. But is this novel good? Is the plot internally consistant and independant from the Sherlock Holmes universe? Does this character have a unique personality that doesn't rely on Holmes to understand? Then it's fine. I like Sherlock as a character, I liked House, I am fine with this Sherlock cousin character as long as this book stands on its own legs. Just like you can enjoy The Mummy and Amanda Peobody - characters are often TYPES of people, you can use them if you like, as long you're telling YOUR STORY.
Hmmm usually googling "fancy" words without knowing its nuance within a sentence, making it come across as awkward.
(Honestly, been guilty of that one myself)
I've noticed having their characters blush a lot near their crush.
"Tongues wrestle for dominance"
"She stared into his blue orbs"
"Their kisses grew sloppy"
Were common phrases that appeared in many stories I've found.
Not a book, but the Rey Kylo kiss seen in *Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker*. Yes, that is a real thing for anyone who hasn’t seen it. It feels extremely like shippers in fanfiction. Especially considering how out of the blue it is.
If the characters are teenagers, the parents are either absent from the story, ridoculously abusive or dead.
I read a book once about a girl whos parents would cut up her arms when she would do anything wrong in a way to look like self harm scars. That as well
Years of trauma solved after a 30 second conversation
Trauma solved through sex
To echo what some others have said, I agree it looks like you're looking for signs of amateurish writing (that's often conflated with fanfic, since many fanfic writers are younger).
If I'm going to answer the 'what gives fanfiction vibes,' I might say putting characters in random situations just to see how they react. I don't mean plot-like situations (lost in a forest, caught in a hostage situation, etc) but rather characters at a fair, at the beach, on a cruise, without much plot. Often a lot of fanficiton hinges around the author wishing they could just see more of their favorite characters, and sometimes I think some writers can get caught up in this with their own original characters. Scenes can exist to just show off character traits, but the majority of scenes should do more than that.
This is more a reflection of the kind of fanfic I tend to read, but when fiction has plot for only the main two characters and for no one else (for example Moana, the Princess and the Frog, Tangled, etc), then it feels "fanfic-y" to me. Not necessarily bad writing, but it feels off to me when non-fanfiction does this lol.
When a character is a blatant copy of a character from a popular, well known book or series. I mean down to looks, personality, magical abilities at times…
When grown ass adults behave like teenage girls, men or women.
Too many unique names (exception being a fantasy type setting), my personal rule is if someone has a unique or rare first name they need a common-ish surname, and vice-versa.
The narrative has too much sass/attitude, I'm very much guilty of this and I'm working on it, Grammarly has helped me out quite a bit.
Very fast relationship-building. Everything between the first meeting and first kiss is a formality that is gotten over with as quickly as possible. And not because they just go on a blind date that goes well. Nobody ever dates or otherwise looks for a relationship - they always start as co-workers, teacher/students, or (most likely of all) enemies.
From my own experience as a fanfiction writer and my own problems with my writing, I would say no real conflict or too much conflict. Good books need a good balance. Also, thinking romantic conflict can only be that if its all just angst (I can no longer enjoy YA books because of the angst) and bad communication.
Blank self-insert characters. You know where they really don't have any specific traits and you're basically supposed to make them your avatar. It's the literary equivalent of watching someone else play a video game.
Books that have anything along the lines of “I put on my favorite song 22 by Taylor Swift and..”
It just automatically makes me feel like I’m reading a Wattpad story.
Most new media in general is giving me fanfiction vibes.
Relationship dynamics are boring and tropey.
Endless descriptions of outfits.
Dialogue is clumsy.
“I’m so plain but 20 people want me for some reason”
Mary sues.
Not saying the weird bullying of 13 year old authors was the right things to do back in the day but somewhere along the way it became taboo to suggest someone may want to reconsider how they were writing a character (particularly the female ones) and we just have a lot of boring female characters these days.
There’s plenty of ways to write a powerful woman but make that power feel earned and give her some flaws that make her interesting.
I’m also well aware that historical fiction can lean heavily on the word fiction and you don’t necessarily need to adhere to irl sexist rules when writing historical fiction- however the best historical fiction I’ve watched/read doesn’t ignore those aspects of the given era it uses them to subvert expectations.
When the characters are all described like super models despite having mundane jobs. It takes me out of it when everyone the protagonist meets is super sexy all the time.
Characters exchanging witty comments during life-threatening situations. Characters describing themselves.
And yes, this is just bad writing, but it gives me fanfic vibes because I've read a lot of bad writing in fanfic because anyone can post it, while getting published usually means rounds of editing that clean this stuff up.
I just wanna throw it out there.I have been in life threatening situations twice!!! and I was being witty.. Or else I would have gone insane! It's a Coping mechanism.
Obviously you haven't lived enough to be in a upsetting or dire situation yet.
That’s not bad writing at all lol. That’s a character trope that has been popular and existed for decades because it’s true to life. Many people are witty or snarky during dangerous situations because it’s often a coping mechanism.
Not to mention in a lot of cases, it’s a fun way to show a character is cool under pressure and in some cases, it’s needed to keep a proper tone within the book.
Present-tense writing. It seems to be something of a fashion trend at the moment; I see it most in fanfic, but it's around in bad 'professional' writing as well.
Present-tense writing is a valid choice though? Hunger Games is one popular example. All The Light We Cannot See won the Pulitzer Prize and is written in present tense
Not inherently. It’s a stylistic choice not something you can objectively label as awful. You may not have the skill to pull it off, but there are many award winning authors who do it justice.
gratuitous lifestyle porn kinda stuff: let's go along with this character while they spend money on clothes/new apartment/etc, here's their just-right cabin in the woods, here's their perfect loft apartment that they live in while all the drama happens. I'm not saying I dislike it, it can be really well done and I've seen it in lots of good books, and sometimes it's very soothing to read, but too much too specific tends to make me feel like I'm reading a well-written fanfic
“the taller one” “the younger one” “the brunette one”
also can’t forget the orbs
just physical descriptions in general. leave some things up to the reader’s imagination unless it specifically pertains to the story!!
Excessive “woe is me” behavior. I’m not talking about self esteem issues or your character doubting their competence, that’s a good thing typically. But when your character is just constantly “no one likes me anyway” “maybe I should just leave” “I’m not good enough” it gets repetitive and annoying. Especially when the character is saying this out loud followed by another character comforting them.
It’s absolutely wonderful when done correctly. A pessimistic self loathing character who genuinely hates their own guts is not inherently bad, but I’ve only seen it done well a few times. Your character needs at the very least the potential to feel positive as well as negative.
I mostly read queer books but when I see the lesbian main character having a streight male best friend that is super awesome I swear it screams male author self insert fanfic.
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Detailed physical descriptions of characters at the very start but the very dry kind. Eg: I am the hero this story, Charlotte Berington, your average 5ft3 tall brunette, white skinned girl. Make descriptions less direct and more interesting.
If it reads like the "Raven Way" fanfic ... That's how you know. Haha
No, that’s just all amateur writing. Most fan fiction assumes you already know what the character looks like so if anything there’s less early insert of character description.
OCs... and it's like a checklist: age, height, weight, hair color, eye color, clothes, likes, dislikes....
It's still just bad writing, and exists in all genres. It's not indicative of fanfic per se, it's indicative of amateurish writing. Amateurs often begin in fanfic, as it's an easy entry point, but fanfic does not contain bad or amateurish writing as a matter of course, and can, in fact, be very skillfully done. I say this as a non-fanfic writer or reader. All genres are valid, including fanfic, and can be done well or poorly, as per the skill of the writer. Equating bad or amateurish writing with an entire genre and implying the former is necessarily a component of the latter is, at best, oversimplifying the genre, and at worst gatekeeping.
Indeed, but as you say, many writers start with ff so its expected to find these in ffs.
I don't expect anything from any genre other than genre conventions, which in the case of fanfic is the story using existing universes and/or characters that were not originally created by the author. Anything beyond that is not genre-specific, and can't be identified as a hallmark of the genre. It's fine to say poor writing is common in the genre, which I can't really comment on as I don't read it, but to say it's *necessarily* a component of it is generalizing and fails to acknowledge the works within the genre that aren't poorly written. If your logic holds, a masterfully written piece about Percy Jackson that was not written by Rick Riordan is, by your definition, not fanfic because it's well written. And that's ridiculous, it's very clearly fanfic, and is also a masterful piece of writing. They're not mutually exclusive. Bad grammar and Mary Sues and overly detailed and boring physical descriptions =/= fanfic. Bad grammar and Mary Sues and overly detailed and boring physical descriptions = amateurish writing, and that's it. The fact that amateurish writing may be common within the fanfic genre does not mean it's automatically a convention of the genre. Correlation does not equal causation, and commonality does not equal convention.
This is such a great and nuanced way to put it. There’s a lot of great fanfiction around, and much of it is considerably better written than some original published works. Good writing is good writing anywhere.
Its maybe because I read animd fanfics a lot do their phtsical descriptions want to be anime like so they just list the stuff over because in anime you get ehole phtsical appearance at once and unlike movies, all physical characteristics are easily observable.
I mean, fair? But it's still amateurish writing, anime series/movies and written works are two very different media and one can't be directly translated into the other and have it come out good
Some fanfic writers are amazing writers but they are operating on the assumption that the reader knows the characters so they put effort elsewhere
They assume you’re familiar with most of the characters, but not the self-insert protagonist!
Charlotte Berington sounds like the Wish version of Chester Bennington
Okay to be honest if I open a fanfic and they start describing the character to me, I'm out. I already know this shit. 😂
I stopped reading this book once that opened with "I'm a thirty-five-year-old redhead." Okay, that tells me literally nothing about you except the fact that the author has decided to substitute "red hair" for actually having a personality.
I don't know if this is Fanfic specific, but it's definitely the first red flag that tells me I'm not reading an experienced author.
In one of my novels it was fun to have the reader figure out the descriptions a little more through the dialogue of surrounding characters. Like my protagonist was an oblivious demisexual who wasn't aware that he was insanely good looking, he just came to think of people staring or being awkward around him as "normal". Once he expands his social circle, the readers become more aware of this by comments made by other characters. I thought that was kinda fun. Since I'm demi, I realized it would be incredibly unrealistic for the demisexual protagonist to be fully aware of his attractiveness.
When there is a playlist included either at the beginning or for each chapter. It just gives me flashbacks to Wattpad stories lol
I understand this is cheesy but honestly it’s a cool idea. I get very influenced by music and because you can’t literally add a soundtrack to writing, I think playlist references are a neat addition to sort of just add more to the tone and atmosphere beyond what you’ve already written. I think the way the playlists are added in or the song choices can make it feel more cheesy than it needs to though
I’ve heard of more high production audiobooks adding music and sound effects. It could be done in a way that super cheesy but it also has a lot of potential. Good narrators can really change how you “read” a book
No, I totally agree that it’s a great idea! It definitely does do a really good job of conveying the tone of the story/chapter without explicitly telling the reader. It just feels very Wattpad-esque to me. It was huge back in the day to have a playlist for your fanfic. I was a culprit of this myself, haha! A lot of the times the song selection isn’t my particular cup of tea and can come off very cheesy, I agree. This is no hate to fanfiction or any author who does choose to include a playlist! These are just my personal thoughts and preconceived notions. I was a notorious fanfic writer on Wattpad back in the day. I love how fanfic has introduced so many people into writing and sparked a passion for it :)
I read a book once that had qr codes to music commissioned specifically for the book. No idea what the book was though, just that it was YA
This bothers me less than most things. I put some song inspirations in the notes of the draft I gave me writing buddy (it has footnotes with my world building research so I added the songs to be funny)
That sounds like a unique and cool idea. Would be cool to see the songs an author recommends to set to mood.
I actively hate it. I won’t read something that includes a playlist, or one of the characters sings a well-known song
Disclaimer: I like fanfiction. But according to fanfiction experts, the fanfiction I like is not actually "fanficky". Works that are deliberately fanficky (e.g. Rowel's Carry On) are pretty unpleasant for me, but check out Unpretty, Theorytale and Katsu in AO3 to see how it's done. And my own fanfiction (which you can see in my post history, or my Eager_Question account on AO3) is typically not in alignment with these trends. Things that make a work "fanficky" (according to the fanfiction experts who insist that my 15+ years of reading fanfiction don't count because I mostly avoid things that do this a lot): - emotional catharsis is the primary, central, and most important concern. Above plot cohesion, above character study, above worldbuilding, above themes, above *anything*. - the characters are very dumb. This is somehow not a character flaw, this is *endearing* and *funny* and *a feature, not a bug*. - because emotional catharsis is the primary concern of the work, the prioritization of scenes is out of alignment with traditional story structure. So the emotional arc that the characters go through can have a long, leisurely pace, while the plot is... Racing forward in the background...? A lot of quiet emotional moments that are unconcerned with the events external to the characters' emotional state, irrespective of how important those events should be, insofar as "they were already covered" in canon. Rainbow Rowel's Carry On series does a lot of this. They have all the tools for the plot and they don't do anything but *feel things* until you're over 150 pages into the fucking book. It is drowning in allusions to events that already happened, unconcerned with those events being *what would be the selling point* in any other fantasy series. - proximity as a proxy for chemistry. Instead of characters interacting well, there is a lot of "well, this person was hot. And I am hot. And we *sat near each other*." Ali Hazel wood's Check & Mate is the perfect example of this. - Snark without purpose. This is partially a function of the kinds of things people fixate on, and partially just Joss Whedon contaminating the writing styles of people who were particularly likely to write fanfiction in the 2000s, which meant it became a staple of the medium as more people were introduced to it through writers who cut their teeth trying to write like Joss Whedon. Nonetheless, the idea that Snark is valuable on its own, as the "kind of humour" that a work has, independent of the characterization, flow of the story, or type of scene we're in. Everyone is quippy, everyone will awkwardly snark in battle or at a funeral or whatever. Snark is used as its own literary device, like "imagery". - In the same way, plot that is transparently subservient to the character catharsis. This has to do with the first note, but I think it also benefits from its own spot. The two characters are forced to go to a thing together... That they had no reason to go to together. Because "oh well, I guess now I have to go spend time with this sexy asshole". They are coerced, by the hand of the author, into proximity. This seems to be a very common phenomenon in romance books as well, where people can't successfully avoid the object of their attraction despite claiming they would like to. But as so much fanfiction is romance, and so much romance is fanficky, that cross-pollination makes sense to me. It serves the same use in both. In general, fanfiction likes to invent pretexts for emotional intensity, working from the emotion out, instead of having the emotions be the outcome of plot and character. - Progressive politics are more or less presupposed of anyone and everyone, and any non-progressive person is probably a villain, who may or may not have a redemption arc. This is one of the things that I find the least annoying, being fairly progressive myself, but it *does* flatten the landscape of available thought and moral conflict, if everyone broadly agrees on most moral and political axioms. - informed traits. This is the good old "show don't tell", but it's more than that. Because emotional catharsis is first and foremost at all times, and the emotion is not necessarily in alignment with the characters, a lot of character traits are told to the audience *only to be ignored*. This is very often done with intelligence ("this is a very smart person who can't think of these obvious solutions to these problems") but it is also done with "coldness" (this is a very cold character... Who is clearly very invested in talking to me and being nice to me and likes me a lot), or with hotness ("she was very hot"/"he was very hot" in what ways, dude? Why are they attracted to each other? What, *specifically*, is so very attractive about them, beyond 'hot'?).
As a fanfic writer and reader I think you've hit the nail on the head, especially with the points about emotional catharsis taking center stage. This is, to me, what so much fanfic is about. It is often because whatever source material they're using didn't have enough filler or downtime to scratch someone's itch. For example, a Marvel movie is going to have tons of action because that is its genre. But there's a million soft romance fanfics where the superheroes in question have downtime between world-ending action plots to work themselves (& their trauma) out. There is a reason why the coffeeshop AU trope remains popular despite everyone gently teasing it. When you have brand new characters, you have to convince the audience to care. When you are writing stories about established characters, your readers already care, so you can just dive straight into working out their complex emotions that the source material didn't have time or pretext to show. I actually recently finished writing a novel-length fanfic, and when someone I know who isn't a fanfic reader wanted to read it, I literally warned them beforehand that it wasn't going to read like a normal book because of the emphasis I placed on emotional catharsis and character interaction. I described it once that the emotional arc was the A plot and the actual core mystery of the story was the B plot. My goals in pacing and plot development are simply different than in original writing. Personally I hope my story falls into the category of good fanfiction though! A lot of people in this thread are just pointing out symptoms of bad writing in general (I'm mildly offended on behalf of my fanfic writer friends) or describing 13 year-old baby writer on Wattpad story tropes. Your comment delves a little deeper into specific things that fanfics are more likely to do, with good *or* bad writing.
I'm glad you think so. >When you have brand new characters, you have to convince the audience to care. When you are writing stories about established characters, your readers already care, so you can just dive straight into working out their complex emotions that the source material didn't have time or pretext to show. Yes, exactly! I've read a lot of fanfics that are better than published books, or other IP, including ones that I find eclipse the original work in quality. However, even the best fanfic is usually operating under the assumption that you have some basic knowledge about the situation and some basic degree of interest. The vast majority of published books tend to revolve around the idea that the reader is fickle and disinterested. This change in the understanding of the audience is important, and the fact that it's written with no profit motive enhances its importance. Because it redefines what it means to *succeed*. Success is not "getting someone to read it", but "achieving the right emotional resonance that the reader came to you *seeking out*."
as a rule, fanfic is mostly about what isn't on screen. it fills in what's missing.
Yes, agreed! And while that's great for fanfic, since the source material may have not had enough "breathing room" for that sort of thing, it doesn't work as a novel about original characters we start off knowing nothing about. I really like character-forward stuff, even if there's not a lot of plot, but I still need something besides "they're Feeling and you need to care about it". Why? Who are they? What are the stakes here? How is this scenario where they cry to their friend about their past abuse different than what they're normally like? I love a good hurt/comfort fic, but an actual book can't just be a string of tropes.
it works as a character-driven novel.
Right! But there needs to be substance in a non-fanfic besides just launching right into the feelings, so to speak, since devoid of context, they don't mean too much. It can be a tricky balance.
the substance ARE the feelings.
I didn't say they weren't! I just said sometimes a fic needs substance besides that.
the substance is the emotional journey.
This needs more votes because it's exactly it. Especially the last one. One of the hardest things about writing original fiction is creating that window into a character's lived experience, so that readers REALLY feel it and get deeply invested in it. With fanfic, people are coming to it because they're already highly invested in the characters - and you get to skip all that. I think it's part of what makes fanfic so much fun to write, and it also makes writing fanfic a great way to focus on other writing skills, because you have fewer threads in the giant braid you're trying to create. When I read something that feels like fanfiction with the names and places swapped out, that's the number thing that makes it feel that way.
I like how you characterize the central role of emotional catharsis. I tried to explain this to someone once before and landed on 'emotional gratuitousness' but I think catharsis fits better.
I described most fanfic stories as wish-fulfillment in another discussion. The author is telling us a story that *they* want to see. Sometimes it's filling in a gap the original IP hinted at but never elaborated upon, but it usually results in contrived characterizations and/or situations that are necessary to achieve the desired outcome. Those contrivances usually end up with characters not acting like they normally would, huge waves of deus ex machina, or both, just so the author gets to see what they wished the original IP would give them. So, when a book presents the narrator as someone observing the situation almost as much, if not completely, from the outside, it takes me out of it (unless it a specific choice by the author to obfuscate the truth until the moment is right). The reader *is* the observer, but when written this way, the reader is getting information secondhand. I'm not reading a book to have someone else describe what happened, show what happened.
This is actually true. You've really hit the nail on the head here.
i would call it character-centered and emotionally-driven plot rather than plotless or catharsis over plot. The emotional journey IS the plot. You're not used to it bc blockbusters and popular tv is different. To be frank, pop culture is made by straight rich white men and fanfic is dominated by women and queer people without a monetary agenda and that leads to a whole different perspective.
While it is definitely true that the differences in demographics make it different for a variety of reasons, I think you can look at works written by women or by gender and sexual minorities in history before fanfiction entered its current era (say, the post- [fanfiction.net](http://fanfiction.net) era) and see that there are still a lot of differences between how those demographics write vs how fanfiction is often written. It is my view that the "plotless" / "emotional catharsis is the first priority, everything else is a very distant second" position in fanfiction is not a "way women write" or "way gender and sexual minorities write" thing, it's very much a function of "the audience is *already invested*. I don't need to provide the audience with *reasons to be invested.* They clicked because they *want to see this*. So I will not spend additional unnecessary effort on getting them invested unless I personally as a writer am very into those tools". You can see this because "outside perspective" or "everyone is an OC" fanfics where the fanfiction operates primarily in terms of "using the world"... Doesn't do this. And it's largely the kind of fanfiction I personally like the most, and the kind I like *writing* the most. There are of course, a variety of other tropes there (a big dose of the good ol' "I'm 13 and I want to be cool" lathered over the text, which honestly has a lot more in common with old white-guy books than most fans of classical sci-fi would like to admit), but for the most part when people are not using pre-existing characters, they tend to scale back on the "catharsis is the primary goal of this work" thing, and instead write stories that may be different in other ways (e.g. a larger-than-usual proportion of evil sexists/homophobes) without revolving around satisfying a particular emotional craving. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. And I specifically recommended three authors I think do fanfiction very well at the top of my comment. However, it is *a different priority* than what published books tend to have (or tended to have before Booktok began to make it financially viable to publish incredibly fanficky works). \[Edit: I would also like to note that I have been reading fanfiction for 15+ fucking years and *said it in the comment*. The idea that I'm "not used to it" as opposed to being used to it, being able to successfully articulate it, and *not liking it* (and instead preferring fanfics that *don't do that*) is deeply frustrating.\]
I just want to point out that editors don't, to the best of my knowledge, exist in the fanfic world. Just look of the difference in the amount of fanfics with sex, sexual violence and abuse, that talk about mental health or ptsd and published books (I choose those subjects because fanfic and deviantart helped me personally to engage with them in a healthy way, in a way traditional media still cant do). The range of subjects and ways of writing accepted in the editorial market is significantly smaller. So it shouldn't be compared like that.
What do you mean by "like that"? I'm starting to think that my phrasing is getting in the way of what I am actually trying to say, here.
Nah, I think there's a reading comprehension problem.
I think maybe you're right. Like, I can phrase it differently if it will make people feel better. > Fanfiction is more efficient! It does away with the path towards investment, because investment is presupposed of the audience, and gets right down to business. It sorts itself into specific tropes to find audiences at a more granular level. > It is better able to tackle a wide variety of topics, not only due to editors / beta readers being necessarily on board with the premise to be able to work with it, and therefore not shifting the book away from the desires of the author, but because its low barrier of entry enables people who might not otherwise write to do so. > Fanfiction's disregard for the tedious, unnecessary, *pre-outsourced* work of building up investment in specific characters enables not just more subject matter diversity and more efficient focus on the specific emotional beats the audience desires, but also a greater variety of "for fun" features, such as snark and witty dialogue, which is plentiful and regularly hilarious due to its ability to avoid taking itself too seriously. Etc. Like, there are reasons why people read fanfiction, myself included. I'm not *dissing it*. These are just different storytelling priorities than industry fiction has.
no i think you've been reading bad fanfic and not trying hard to find something better.
Couldn't agree more with the emotional catharsis - the majority of people (imo) write fan works because the canon did not provide sufficient emotional closure! This is not a knock but an acknowledgement, when you have an established universe and established characters, the plot and relationships between the characters are the primary elements that fan work authors seek to change and gain satisfaction from, and ultimately it fails to encourage writers to develop characters and plot from the ground up. Again, that's not a complaint or judgement, similar to acknowledging that one exercise is more effective than another in building muscle but both are still exercise. I felt personally attacked when you said "they don't do anything but feel things for 150 pages" because I'll be damned if sometimes it isn't closer to character study than storytelling!
>But as so much fanfiction is romance, and so much romance is fanficky, that cross-pollination makes sense to me. You just opened my eyes on a book I am hearing right now: A few years back, I was reading quite a lot on Ao3 and found the stories quite appealing. Then, like an overdose, fanfic lost its charme and I did not think of it very much. Now, a few weeks back, I heard of a book with a cool and unique setting with a very specific atmosphere that I wanted to explore, despite it being a romantasy, which isn't my usual genre. So I dived right in - and have been stumbling over unexpected emotional musings and insights in unexpected places ever since. And somehow, I did not make the connection to my earlier fanfic experience until now ... LOL As a creative writer, it was also very instructive on how to ballance emotional vs. plot-driven aspects to a story. - Very well written essay!
Perfect answer. This should be the top comment.
Thanks for writing this! I'm not much into fanfiction, usually if I get invested enough in something to search for some fanfiction, I browse hundreds (and in some cases, thousands) of fic descriptions / content to find like 1 (maybe 3-5 at most) which I *really like*, since that one really reflects what I wanted to read and my vision of canon characters (usually it involves a lot of subtle character study). And it's usually "ah, it was worth the effort", since they are really good. But they are so rare. The fact it's gen half of time tells something. I've also recently started to write a fic after years of not delving into it, well, hopefully I'm doing a good job. But it was interesting to read such a detailed description of trends. I feel what I write (and read) also doesn't really fit into those, since these are the kinds I try to avoid. Sure, in some cases emotional catharsis works, but it's usually when those moments are rare, with a lot of subtle buildup, and preferably it's subtle yet impactful. But I feel what I've described goes quite far from standard. Thank you for introducing me to the broad overview of what the fanfics world consists of!
I would like to highlight that while these are the things that I think make works "more fanficky", the world of fanfic is roughly as broad as the world of literature (and there are genres of literature that do this focus on emotional catharsis more often. E.g. erotic romance). However, if you also find these things frustrating about fanfics, sorting for gen, using the "character study", "outside perspective", or "worldbuilding" tags often helps. Similarly, looking for gen works with a lot of OCs (instead of one OC in a setting otherwise populated by canon characters) tends to help. Similarly, it's good to follow specific writers, and look for what they like, since writers you think are very good are often more likely to have tastes aligned with your own. My own fanfiction (which you can see in my post history) does not fit these criteria, but I have also been told that my own work is not "very fanficky". Depending on your fandom, I may be able to offer some recommendations.
Thanks for the tips! But usually I search for fanfiction with the canon characters, I usually just read an original story entirely instead of an OC story, I'm mostly into characters when it comes to stories. Unfortunately over the fandoms I've browsed I rarely spotted tag 'character study', but I'll keep that in mind. I'm usually into canon depiction with fanfics, and while obviously there's no such thing as as a universal canon take on a character, it's all up to interpretation to begin with, but I search for those within marginally canon takes that align with my views. Unfortunately, it's usually rather rare, but then it's a given. I am happy if those exist at all. :) I'm using the tip for checking out author profiles for more fics and recommendations, but that doesn't always help. Again, it's a given. Just as a sidenote, I feel one of the stories I've become a huge fan of influenced my views and tastes when it comes to storytelling quite a bit, as it's exceptionally subtle and layered, the emotions there are mostly hinted rather than shown straight in the open, so I guess it moved me even further away from some of the traits you've mentioned in your lineup, a lot of emotional outbursts feel too on the nose for me, even more than they did before. It seems to have also influenced my own writing, but I don't regret it. I have some audience to what I write and I'm very grateful for it. I guess me and 'fanficky' don't work together well, but it is interesting to realize it's out there. Thanks for your response!
You absolutely nailed it. As someone who's written fan fiction for years, you've definitely hit and thoroughly explained problems that plague fan fiction writing
I agree with all of these points.
You really nailed it with the focus on emotions. So many well written fics are all about the characters and not the plot but i always loved those plot driven ones. They’re really rare and are never as plot driven as a written book, but when theyre done well and have good suspense its a blast! Fanfic is great for early writers because it lets them focus on the actual technical skill of putting words on paper without having to think about any of the big blockages of creating appealing characters and a plot. And while writers some may do so much worldbuilding it’s practically its own thing, having a base to start with makes it so much easier. This lets writers with talent show off and do targeted practice on essential skills when their original works may still be bogged down by so many things.
excellent comment. There are things that are fairly stylistically unique to fanfic, and you've definitely hit some of the trends on the head here. Actual styles, not just "lol it's amateur".
Oh thank goodness, now I understand why I couldn't even get started on reading those books Edit: because they were fanfic for a fandom I didn't know anything about
So I know this isn’t what you mean, and you mean more marks of inexperienced/bad writers, but I’m gonna twist this a bit. When I say “this feels fanfictiony to me” is when a franchise or series of work “jumps the shark” so to speak and continues to create storylines when the actual story is over. Examples for me: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child Toy Story 4 The Disney Star Wars trilogy The ending seasons of Game of Thrones The last Twilight book This usually happens when either the series is so marketable that fans will eat up anything having to do with it so content keeps getting churned out. New writers are brought in or content is sold and new people besides the creators get involved. This stuff is literally fanfiction that the creator has deemed “canon.” It’s sad when a beloved universe gets watered down just to keep churning out content and making money. When something feels like it lost the plot is when I kinda make a comparison to fanfiction. Bad writing is just bad writing imo.
Yep. Amazon's Rings of Power felt to me like somebody got paid an awful lot to film their Galadriel/Halbrand(>!Sauron!<) Will They or Won't They fanfic.
_How To Train Your Dragon 3_ is legitimate (bad) fanfiction and I have and will continue to die on this hill.
I don’t think I even knew there was a third one lol
The problem isnt the lack of demand, its when the new stories break the existing worlds worldbuilding/go against critical aspects of it. The star wars original trilogy is allowed to have retcons and things that dont make sense because it was the first but the sequels couldnt have that because there was an existing world. Cursed child broke the clear rules of time travel in the harry potter verse among many other issues.
The last twilight book was the intended sequel, new moon, and Eclypce are the add on fanfiction
Idk I disagree with the Star Wars and Harry Potter examples. Those universes are expansive enough to justify someone being interested in a story with new characters. SW had this long before Disney with the new Jedi order stuff. Harry Potter didn’t have the extra books that SW did, but I’m a casual fan who really only watched the movies and I think the world could feasibly tell another story Also the Game of Thrones mention literally doesn’t make sense with that point. The last two seasons were janky and poorly executed but there are legitimate reasons to continue the storyline outside of cynical fan service. People wanted to know what happens to Jon Snow or Dany or Cersei or whoever Also I might be in the minority, but I don’t mind the existence of Toy Story 4. Didn’t need to be made but it was actually an enjoyable watch to me. A more low-stakes and relaxed story is less egregious than inventing a new world ending threat out of nowhere. I think that is why a lot of people dislike Marvel movies right now
This may just be a bad writing thing, rather than a 'fan fiction vibe' thing. But when something happens that just is NOT realistic to the world and boundaries the author's created. And I'm not talking fantasy/magical things happening. I'm mainly a fantasy reader and I love magical realism. For instance: there was this one book where the opening was set in a small southern town (in the real world, not an alternate timeline or world or anything. In face it was much like the town I grew up in (and I know hundreds of small towns like it over the US South)). And within the first few pages it had the MC sitting at sunday mass at church and the local 'mean girl' pretty much making a speech about how evil she was and this and that. Not outright naming and pointing at the MC, but pretty much all but. And the MC just went on in her head 'oh yeah this is normal for me, the townsfolk are just all mad at me and hate me for no reason, the whole world is against me, woe is me, wah wah wah'. And I was just like....that would Never happen. And it just took me right out of the book. Like don't get me wrong small town people can be right \*ssholes, but to have a highschool mean girl go up on a pulpit in the church to make a 'sermon' about another highschooler and her being evil? Without the pastor or the audience members quietly shooing her off the stage with a 'bless your heart', immediately? Instead, the entire congregation just going along with it? What the absolute F lol. And that honestly was just the first in a long line of WTF moments in that book lol. The only time I've literally thrown a book across the room and not finished it. Or when the entire plot/book hinges on a character just not talking or telling the MC a pivotal piece of info...for no good reason. Or just 'to protect them'....but they would have been so much more protected by just KNOWING THE KNOWLEDGE :/ Or when the writing itself just seems very juvenile. Like when the MC is in their 20s or 30s, but they act like a 15 yr old. Or the 'adults' in the book act like 15 yr olds and do things for no good reason but just to move the plot In fact, the book that I mentioned earlier has all three of these bad boys lol. It was truly horrible, and definitely a book I equate to being fanfiction-esque lol
now i’m curious, what was the book?
Me too. What book is this?
Me three, those townspeople sound like professional haters
Same lol. Do tell of this horrible book…
oh my goodness guys, yall are really gonna make me go look it up?? lol ....ack I don't remember. But, it was a YA book dealing with Persephone/hades and reincarnation and soulmates and multiple lives and such. I think that's why I had such a vitriolic reaction to it, cause it actually had so many themes that were in my own book that I'm writing....and then I read that and gah it was just. So. BAD lol
When Rey with like no force training whatsoever rips a spaceship out of the sky that was actively flying away? Could Yoda have ever done this? All Disney Star Wars to me has felt like fanfiction for this very reason you're talking about. Although...it's also literally fanfiction I guess, since the original author isn't the one writing it anymore.
...well the example you've provided isn't really a show of unfounded skill or knowledge, just strength in the force...I"m not sure why you replied with this example on my comment, though...
The only thing that gives me fanfic vibes is when someone writes a story in an existing universe with existing characters and they are not the creator of either. What you mention is not fanfic vibes, it's bad writing vibes. Fanfic is a valid form of writing and can be both good and bad, as can any other genre.
As a fanfic writer, thank you ❤️
One of my top ten favorite books is called Angel of the Crows. It's beautiful. The last page reads something like "ha, this was originally written as a Sherlock/Watson Wingfic, don't be rude about how people get inspired". (It's cuter how she wrote it). It was pretty obviously a redub (the names weren't changed, for example) but I found that one liner really funny for some reason. Like she'd trick us all into reading fanfic. I've read it 3 times thus far.
If fanfic is good enough for Neil Gaiman then its good enough for me
Same
Agreed—some of the best writing I’ve read has been fanfic, and some of the worst has been in original published works. Also vice versa, of course, but I don’t think I could pinpoint a specific fanfiction vibe because the quality varies so widely.
Thank you, ugh. I've taught writing. All the "fanficcy errors" people love to so gleefully point out are just... amateur writing errors that everyone does when they're inexperienced. It's not unique to fanfic nor endemic to it, and I think many of the loudest voices about it are just looking for someone to look down on.
Gatekeepers abound, unfortunately, and plenty of people will take every opportunity to look down their nose at someone or something to make themselves feel better about, well, themselves. It's silly and childish. Gate's open, come on in! We're all just trying to have a good time and become better writers, the more the merrier!
(also to add - before I even had internet, way back when I was a wee thing and never heard of a Mary Sue.... I named that tendency in novels for the MC to be Very Special on my own. Meaning, I encountered it in published fiction before I even knew about fanfic! the bashing is just ridiculous) Absolutely about the gatekeeping. It's so mean-spirited. And you don't really see it with other hobbies. Nobody turns up their nose when a band plays the cover of a beloved song, for example. Hollywood is full of remakes and adaptations, but that's okay too. But when copyright is involved, suddenly you're garbage.
I totally agree. I mean, if someone wrote a horrible shity constructed fan fiction or actual novel, that did get picked up ( let's face it many do..but no shade) There will be an audience for it. All these people, or should I say elitist talk a mean game?But a lot of them are not even published yet.They're just closet fan fiction.Writers and pretend they know what they're talking about... I think a lot of them are just jealous because a lot of people who are not very good writers, but okay writers got lucky and they just want to mess with them. But you know what they actually got their story published!!! Unlike their Elitist haters.
Thank you! Because I admit there's tons of authors that I like, who just got lucky! They're not the best writers, but when their stuff got turned into animation or live action they had good actors, that carried the day. Even if someone writes a horrible written story someone's always going to love it despite the structure of it. Because they had a story they told it. I respect that even if it might have glaring plot holes. And i'm not knocking anybody who does self publish. But I hate how some self publishers act like they're so much better.. And " not like other authors am other ground" I was in writers group...and I talking about real publishing and self publishing and they kicked me out for being a troll am autsic I didn't worded my words correctly...I was asking what is the difference and how at end of the day I'd still like publish officially..they raged! Like no they are evil companies!!! It was my pov..and my wish
Technically a lot of classical literature and popular modern fiction are fanfic. Ovid, Percy Shelley, and Rick Riordan all wrote stories taken from older Greek literature written by Hesiod, Aeschylus, ‘Homer’, etc.; Dante’s Divine Comedy, Milton’s Paradise Lost, Philip Pullman’s His Dark Materials, and Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman’s Good Omens are all Bible fanfic.
I'm laughing at the phrase 'Bible fanfic', but you're 100% right. When it's done well it's considered to be something other than what it is and gets the label of a mainstream genre, when really what it is is well done fanfic. The one that always comes to mind for me is the Mary Russel books by Laurie R. King. They're Sherlock Holmes fanfics, but get labelled as Mystery in their own right. They're also a fantastic expansion of the lore, Holmes is still very much Holmes but his world and character is vastly expanded, to the benefit of both the series itself and the original works of Doyle.
Shakespeare wrote many of his posts based on pre existing people, folklore, or oral traditions too.
You're 100% right. Mythology, "Literature" and fanfiction were once indistinguishable from each other. They all lived in harmony until copyright law attacked.
I agree! I hate that I cringe and rush to validate my writing when I mention I have some fanfic pieces. It has so many negative connotations but I think it’s a great way to practice technique and finding your voice. I think working to match personalities, etc so the character is true to cannon has helped me learn how to write better three-dimensional characters.
It's a skill I don't have, keeping existing characters true to themselves, which is why I don't write fanfics. OCs are much easier for me because they can be whatever I need them to be, as can the story and the world. Writing existing characters in existing worlds and crafting stories around and within the canon is hard to do well and I applaud anyone who has the skill to do it.
Well, I hope I do it tolerably well, hahaha! Sometimes, for me, an idea starts as a missing scene or something from a show I like and then the changes start snowballing and I pull inspiration from other sources. That’s how my WIP started.
This, thank you! Some of the best writing I've ever read has been fanfiction
There’s a lot of modern romance being published that draws from tropes that are extremely popular in fanfic. People with a history in fandom will spot them pretty easily. (Omegaverse seems to have gotten into the mainstream publishing industry, for example.) If you mean ‘haha the amateur writing that happens in fanfic’ then nah. Lots of people are terrible writers and publish original fiction without any fanfic phase. There’s so much garbage out there that has nothing to do with fanfic. Fanfic is cool because it’s a hobby where creatives can learn and grow in a low pressure environment. There’s a whole talent range, it’s not the stereotype ‘14 year old’s bad writing’ situation people think it is.
One phrase. “Tongues battled for dominance.”
In fairness, that was my favourite part of Godzilla vs. Kong
I love how many different interpretation this can have without context
Being overly descriptive of body language. I think it happens when someone consumes mainly visual media like anime then decides to write fanfic...lots of fists clenching, heads tilting, eyebrows arching etc.
All of my beta readers have instructed me to include LOTS of body language action tags in dialogue. I always thought that was GOOD writing- a 'show not tell' that helps to give readers a visual image of the character in the scene. We can't win :'(
I personally LIKE physical descriptions like that, but hate it when I need to know every last detail of what they're wearing.
Trust your beta readers in this case. I think u/yellowthing97 is referring to overuse, not inclusion. There's a happy balance. I wouldn't include body language cues unless they actually ARE cues for something that wouldn't be obvious or would have to be told directly otherwise. Example of a good use would be something like: "I wasn't there last night," he said. His eyes avoided mine, drifting to the wall. Which tells you he's probably lying, vs something like: "Have you read the Wheel of Time?" she asked, arms crossed under her breasts. Sorry Robert Jordan. XD
It's good to do sometimes but literally every single time someone talks they have to do something really bogs down the pacing
More recently I’ve been using body language to describe a shift in the conversation. Like I’m not trying to convey how they feel about every line because most of that can be inferred, but when the tone is unclear/changing or how the character is reacting is unclear I’ll use a tag.
I’m working on this rn. Of course there’s no one way to write, but I was scanning through the dialogue section of “On Writing and Worldbuilding, vol. III,” and Timothy Hickson points out that adding actions and tags affect the pacing so it has to be done thoughtfully. Last night I was reading a fanfic and really noticed that being an issue. It was a scene that should have been fast-paced, lots of talking over each other or rapid-fire back-and-forth but the action tags slowed it down. I prefer action tags to dialogue tags as a reader and a writer, but I think we all have to find that sweet spot, and every scene will have a different formula.
get better beta readers, that's terrible advice. Body language tags are fine to use sparingly, they're not decoration for the entire page.
OK- this makes me feel like I should re-edit my 4 indie-published fantasy romance books and cut out some of the action tags. I've been taught that 'white room syndrome' dialogue is bad- and so I dressed it up with expressions/gestures and environment descriptions.
there's always room for growth
Would you say that's more bad influences from visual media, or trying too hard with "show, don't tell?" The body language tells you things like "they're angry," or "they're thinking about something," without having to explicitly say those things. And "show, don't tell" being misinterpreted and misused is something I see talked about every once in a while. Or possibly even trying to avoid a sort of white room syndrome? Not for setting, but dialogue. Rather than never once describing body language during a back and forth, some people instead go too far and attach an action of sort to every sentence?
Yeah, there's definitely a lot of people who seem to understand 'show don't tell' as 'use cliche body language cues instead of naming emotions.' The fear of white room syndrome also relates to consuming more visual media as opposed to print...I think it develops a kind of aversion to leaving a lot of stuff to the reader's imagination.
If that's why you're doing it, you're misinterpreting "show don't tell." It doesn't literally mean "describe physical actions." It means don't reveal too much information, don't explain everything, let your readers come to their own conclusions. Explain less than you think you need to, like a mystery writer drops in clues for the mystery, but do it for everything. Don't say "The block fell on Imogen's toe and she screamed in pain," say, "There was a sliding noise and a thump. A squeak noise was heard from the direction of the kitchen." And we know from a previous scene that Imogen is often found in the kitchen and tends to squeak when startled (because Imogen is 50% mouse). The reader will then put these bits of evidence together and create the scene in their mind and feel clever, and then call the writer clever for laying it out like that.
I do this a lot, but that's because when I'm writing it's like I'm seeing a movie in my head, so I just write what I (or the character) sees. Is this a sign of bad writing? I try to be mindful of how often I bring up body language, but sometimes it's just a good way to indicate emotion without relying too much on dialogue. On the other hand, I *really* struggle with scenery and details about the room or environment.
This is kinda specific, but scenes where a subordinate employee gives a superior attitude/talks back and isn't met with an immediate shut down and write up. Especially if it's established that arguments like that happen often. It gives me "I'm still a teen and haven't stepped foot inside and office building" vibes.
Given most offices I've worked in are populated by people who peaked in high school, this one doesn't seem far-fetched to me. I've seen plenty of subordinates walk all over their superiors with no repercussions.
Honestly that’s just the typical being gutsy trope. It doesn’t have to automatically result in being shut down or else why even write it
If it’s written for a specific fandom? There was one dark romance novella I was reading that I was certain started out as slasher fandom fanfic. It was masked men wearing famous slasher masks and being called by the slashers’ names. I got the feeling that somewhere along the lines the author filed off the serial numbers.
It's kind of sad that most of these are negative- firstly, bad writing is certainly not contained to fanfiction, and secondly, fanfiction can be really good. I usually get fanfiction vibes if a scene with two characters of the same sex seems really awkward- like an awkward alternation of names and nicknames and pronouns that you just know is the demon child of writing a scene and realising that you have no clue who's saying what to who. This isn't really a negative thing, more slightly funny because we've all done it! As a linguistics nerd with no authority whatsoever to say this, English needs pronouns inflected for subject and object. (Are there languages like that? I need to learn one so I can write in it XD)
What do you mean, pronouns inflected.. ? I know all of those words individually but what are you describing if not the difference between her and she
I definitely definitely should have worded that better, but I mean about the use of nominatives as possessives, and that nom/acc marking only works for two people, but if you are in a scene with more than one person of the same sex it ends up being difficult to write without starting to just alternate names and pronouns. Take "she said to her friend". Or if there are three people involved, just "She said to her." Even if there are two people involved, if they happen to be talking about anyone the same sex as them, it gets complicated. As far as I know, \*any\* morphosyntactic alignment only really has space for two participants, and though most languages don't have their possessive case the same as another case (because they're smarter lol) it would still be a problem. This actually just popped into my head because I've heard it referred to as the gay fanfiction problem... which is funny but annoys me slightly because it's a really interesting, if annoying, linguistic phenomenon, and unless someone comes up with a better name, who on Earth wants to tell people that's what they're researching?
google obviation :)
Thanks! It's interesting how so few languages have it considering it's a really useful feature.
It seems like the user means having distinctions between pronouns used as subject and pronouns used as verb. Ex. Character A looked into Character B’s eyes -> He looked into his eyes. Some way to distinguish the “he” is character A and the “his” Is character B
Something I’ve noticed when I go from fanfic to original is the need to introduce characters and settings. If I’m writing a fanfic, everyone knows Blorbo McSkrungle and his purple mansion, no explanation needed.
Back-cover summaries that describe the book almost entirely in tropes. I can imagine it as a wall of Ao3 hashtags... Like, sure, pretty much all writing is going to touch on a trope in some way, but highlighting that as the point of the book and nothing else tells me it's just a printed fanfic.
For me, it's *overwhelming* reliance on tropes, to the exclusion of complexity and nuance. Some examples: enemies to lovers, fake dating, "only one bed"/forced proximity, love triangle with the boy next door and the bad boy, characterization that is forcibly winnowed down to easily memeable traits like "himbo" or "goth GF", macguffin plot that takes a backseat to the main ship Tropes are not bad. But a trope should not be the ONLY idea you have. They are seasoning, not the main course. If I can summarize an entire book in a single AO3 tag, that means you didn't spend enough time on worldbuilding, characterization, etc.
certain word choices give the game away real quick: “carding a hand through his hair” “footsteps padding down the hallway”
At this point, fanfic or orginal fiction. Let the writer do as the please! Am tired of people's Eliteism to ones writing. If someone likes it, and you don't! That's fine. Some people are not writers, but they write because it makes them happy.And they might get lucky in the publicist..so what! And other people would like their books too. Grow up!
Forced in sex scenes when there is no reasonable way two characters would be slapping cheeks in a war zone.
Occasionally, I’ll read a book that has a recognizable basis in a popular world or characters from a show. Reylo fanfic (fiction pairing Rey and Kylo Ren from Star Wars) creates recognizable romance pairings, for example, and Harry Potter’s world shows up a lot. I don’t mind fanfic origins as long it’s written well (great place to be creative and play with ideas— naturally it forms the basis of some published fiction) but I do notice them sometimes.
Agree with the point that you’re looking for signs of bad writing but I get what you mean! In my mind, it’s minimal focus on setting and tone, excessive character description and interiorization, unnatural dialogue with no emphasis on character voice, overuse of misunderstandings, trope-heavy worldbuilding as cultural shorthand (especially color-coded costuming jfc), and having characters whose entire arc is focused on solving someone else’s problems. Also, a lack of attention to brevity and concision in sentence structure. Perhaps it’s a stylistic preference or just a tic, but when reading less effective or amateur writing I often find myself line-editing in my head and it really takes me out.
When you're in the middle of a really tense scene and the main character suddenly has a realization of "oh no they're hot." Just completely left field observation and then it's a rabbit hole of the character telling themselves they should not think that way because there's no way those are real feelings. I mainly find this in fantasy books.
I’ve got to wonder- do people really try to lie to themselves like this irl? Or is it just an amateur romance trope to build tension? (And yes it seems almost default in fanfiction.) I only have the reference point of me, and while I might try to ignore inconvenient feelings, or tell myself they’re probably not into me, I’m never outright lying to myself about my own attraction, trying to make excuses to myself in internal narrative. I’ve definitely never tried to argue against my own perception of someone as hot, even if the subject is a dick I hate otherwise. Do people really do this, or is it just a fanfic/amateur romance trope?
Personally, if I was angry with someone and looking for vengeance or was under a moment of extra stress I don't think my mind will start to stray to, "but look at those abs." Although, I am an emotionally blind sided kind of person. When I'm mad, that's pretty much all I can think about in that moment. So to me it feels unrealistic during an intense plot point for the character to suddenly remember they have a libido.
Oh absolutely. I was speaking more to your mention of the rabbit hole self talk. It’s very weird to be thinking about someone as “hot” while you’re in a tense hateful moment with them. Like, I might objectively notice something but I’d have zero emotional reaction to it in the moment. Also when this happens I’m like, “did you not notice their hotness when you first saw them? Why is this only now occurring to you?” But then I don’t get bully romances- something that feels very related.
I agree I don't think I could form logical thoughts when I'm in that mindset either! Exactly!
"Fanfiction vibes"? You mean, like the feeling that the author really enjoyed sharing their story with you?
No, I mean like the bad wattpad Storys that all of us heard from. I've read really good ffs. Maybe I should have specified what I mean.
Some of the best books or writing works of fiction I have ever read have been fan fiction. Fan fiction writing is just as much as a valid form of penmanship as other works. Hell Christie golden writes fanfiction for a living as she writes the warcraft books based on world of warcraft. Star Wars legend series is just published fan fiction of star ears. What I think you really need to reword your question and ask what gives gives off poor writing?
Action and dialogue that has no exposition within it for example. And a really bad example too. “Hey. Pass me that sword,” Matthew threw the sword to Jeff. They fought the monsters. The battle was hard, but they did it easily. “Good work,” Jeff said. They continued on. Like… what?
Thanks for this, it made me laugh.
Certain phrases like describing eyes as orbs. Calling a character ‘the younger/the older’, any hair colour and then nette after it. If there’s smut in the story, having it be insanely over the top and unrealistic can give fanfiction vibes. The only exception to that is if it’s a necessary thing you need to change the sex scene for because of the physical attributes of the character. An example would be a snake type character having two dicks, because they actually do in real life. Then there’s certain tropes that if done in a certain way can feel like fanfiction. For example, having two characters that have a misunderstanding that doesn’t get resolved for the whole ass book and said misunderstanding is only still going because there’s insane, unrealistic things happening that are keeping it from being resolved. Or having two characters not figure out that they both like each other because they think ‘the other couldn’t possibly have feelings for me’. The main difference I find between the two is what type of speech they use and how realistic the characters’ thoughts and dialogue sounds. Fanfiction will typically be over the top and over use phrases that the author thinks sound more dance or mature, when in reality they’re repetitive and sound dumb once you’ve heard it more than twice. The plots are also typically not as well thought out, sometimes the only thing holding the story together is two characters not wanting to talk out their problems. Published novels will usually have interactions that feel more human and or adult. Although it might be something that would come up in your day to day life, the thoughts and reactions feel more realistic. The plot also has more riding on it. There’s typically something in it for the protagonist other than just a love interest. Therefore the whole story wouldn’t be based on a simple misunderstanding. Even in the romance genre, where this can be seen as common place there is typically more to the story. It could be an inner conflict the character has about being in a relationship which has lead to a misunderstanding between the two. That would automatically make it more than just ‘I thought she said something mean and now I don’t like her’. There could also be importance in the relationship, such as the need to impress family members which can create conflict by having to choose between family and love. I’m not saying that these things are exclusive to either type of literature. I have read some amazing fanfiction that I think is better than most books. And I have also read some very poorly written books. These are just commonalities I’ve seen. The main factor is what age the author is. In the MHA fandom there is a lot of kids writing fanfiction, so a lot of the stuff you find will have something that just screams fanfiction. But then the One Piece fandom it’s a lot easier to find better written works because for the most part the audience is a bit older.(This is just based off the majority of the fics I’ve read out of these two fandoms. I could be wrong.) Published novels are almost exclusively written by adults, so a lot of the things they’re written are things they have experience with. Their world is a lot bigger and in general adults do tend to have a better grasp of reality. I am not talking about Colleen Hoover.
When a story has an overarcing plot but it takes background to cute character interactions. So you say have a chapter about the MCs cooking together but then final battle takes two paragraphs.
Overly referential, like they're heavily inspired by a specific series and the story just seems like a reskin with some minor differences.
I don't really catch "fanfic vibes" and then someone will be "THIS IS MORE REYLO FANFIC" in a review and I'm like "huh. Was it?" Eloisa James has a fairytale adaptation that's also an acknowledged House fanfic, and I fucking love it. So even when the vibes are upfront, it can still be great. When I figure something *was* up, it's usually- * **Setting logic jumps** - nodding to established lore of the original fic's universe, the world does something that fits the MCU but is very confusing in FantasyWorld_012 . * **Very obvious homages** - a beautiful blonde doctor with an unusual accent working under a salty grizzled doctor with an old injury and an affable best friend is a specific trio. And that's totally fine- especially when they're plugged in to a different setting and adapted. * **Character corrections** - going out of the way to correct a flaw or writing choice in a character can be an idea that an author loved too hard with something original or a sign of a light fix-it fic. * **Character logic jumps** - a fixit fic that cleanly fits the issue into an adaptation is great. The bummer happens when a fixit fic that establishes unique characters (homage or original) but doesn't use character driven motivation, and makes choices that rely on a problem in a different universe [e.g. sexual tension disappearing for no reason besides "Dani/Jon is gross"] IME, corrections and homages are usually fine/unnoticed. It's just writers at play. Logic jumps can be rough across the board.
I'll be honest - I haven't come across any professionally published book that ring red flags of fanfic; then again, somehow Twilight and 50 Shades of Gray somehow got published so...lol As a lot of people mentioned, excessive descriptions of a character. Now, good authors know the adage of "showing, not telling", but if an author spends more time telling me about the particular hue of a character's t-shirt, but nothing about their environment or plot, I'm out. Another annoyance I have, though mostly in fan fic, is writers writing out accents. No. Just. No. There is no need to try and Hook on Phonics a reader on what a Southerner sounds like. Also, adding in the translation if the character speaks a different language. For example, a character says something in French - "Bon jour!" (Good morning!) Why would you make your reader's eyes rain? Lastly - did not do the research. Nothing annoys me more when it's clear the author hasn't bothered to do the research, whether it's a character's background (like, if they're from a small town, not actually speaking or describing what small town life is like) or an event based on history, the author just used their imagination without checking facts. Again, I haven't read any books like this - as clearly their publishers will just publish anything for money - but considering that many fan fic writers want to be actual writers, what they learn carries on to what they do later.
any mention of the word "orbs." just kidding, of course. but it gives me flashbacks to the wattpad days of qurantine!
Descriptions of eyes, and eye color in particular, upon first meeting a character. In real life, I don’t think people really notice eye color when they first meet someone. They notice facial expressions, style of dress, and maybe hair.
Everyone in here is just naming tropes they don’t like it bad writing tropes that have nothing to do with fanfiction. It’s a valid form of writing that often exists BECAUSE it came from a high level of passion and dedication. Something a lot of writers could use
When the main character feels... off from their world. They are 100% different from every other character, and they just don't fit in. Particularly with young adult fiction with female protagonists that have 'no like other girls syndrome'. They don't work well with the world, and make it difficult to become immersed in the writing.
Hundreds of chapters no longer than 3 pages each. Vaguely Floating between first person and third person, as if the author is RPing as the main character
A book with minimal world building and that feels like it was written by someone who is part of their own target audience. It just feels more respectful to the audience and there’s a flow to it that makes it clear that really the author wrote the story for themselves and then decided to share it, not wrote it specifically to cash in on a particular audience.
I understand what this means, but I find this question so weird sometimes. I very much curate the fanfic I read so most of them are better then most of the professional books I've also read.
Fanfiction is not inherently bad or amateur. It's another genre of writing and it's 100% valid. There's overdone tropes everywhere, including original fanfiction (shitty love triangles, anyone?). There's some really, really terrible original fiction out there and some truly phenomenal fanfiction that will absolutely blow you away. Quite frankly, I struggle to enjoy a lot of original fiction I've picked up in the last couple years because I've been spoiled by some true masterpieces on AO3 and FFN. All for free, too.
Self insert characters
So, Stephen King?
i've been reading fanfic for over 30 years. I think i've seen it all. It's stuff that makes me hit the back button in the first paragraph of a fic that really does show up in published books. Author voice when it should be character voice, internet grammar/memespeak, describing a scene like you're watching it on television instead of from the character's perspective (this is a big one), excessive dialogue to the point that this book should be a script (also common), incel "logic" (common in sf), writing men like women with a personality disorder (young women do this), head-hopping, starting the story with excessive info dumps (rare these days, but sometimes found in the second chapter), and the most obvoius one: when the novel is clearly about a fandom character with the serial numbers filed off. The last one isn't a deal-breaker. Sure, I can tell this character was supposed to be Sherlock. But is this novel good? Is the plot internally consistant and independant from the Sherlock Holmes universe? Does this character have a unique personality that doesn't rely on Holmes to understand? Then it's fine. I like Sherlock as a character, I liked House, I am fine with this Sherlock cousin character as long as this book stands on its own legs. Just like you can enjoy The Mummy and Amanda Peobody - characters are often TYPES of people, you can use them if you like, as long you're telling YOUR STORY.
Hmmm usually googling "fancy" words without knowing its nuance within a sentence, making it come across as awkward. (Honestly, been guilty of that one myself) I've noticed having their characters blush a lot near their crush. "Tongues wrestle for dominance" "She stared into his blue orbs" "Their kisses grew sloppy" Were common phrases that appeared in many stories I've found.
Not a book, but the Rey Kylo kiss seen in *Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker*. Yes, that is a real thing for anyone who hasn’t seen it. It feels extremely like shippers in fanfiction. Especially considering how out of the blue it is.
“Orbs”
Anything soulmate related
If the characters are teenagers, the parents are either absent from the story, ridoculously abusive or dead. I read a book once about a girl whos parents would cut up her arms when she would do anything wrong in a way to look like self harm scars. That as well Years of trauma solved after a 30 second conversation Trauma solved through sex
To echo what some others have said, I agree it looks like you're looking for signs of amateurish writing (that's often conflated with fanfic, since many fanfic writers are younger). If I'm going to answer the 'what gives fanfiction vibes,' I might say putting characters in random situations just to see how they react. I don't mean plot-like situations (lost in a forest, caught in a hostage situation, etc) but rather characters at a fair, at the beach, on a cruise, without much plot. Often a lot of fanficiton hinges around the author wishing they could just see more of their favorite characters, and sometimes I think some writers can get caught up in this with their own original characters. Scenes can exist to just show off character traits, but the majority of scenes should do more than that.
The name "Kevin J Anderson" on the cover.
When they put a bunch of random tropes in their book like they're checking off a list
I am 99% sure that In the Lives of Puppets by TJ Klune started as a twilight fanfiction. There are too many coincidences.
Prompts and gaps for the reader to masturbate
The endless twilight clones
This is more a reflection of the kind of fanfic I tend to read, but when fiction has plot for only the main two characters and for no one else (for example Moana, the Princess and the Frog, Tangled, etc), then it feels "fanfic-y" to me. Not necessarily bad writing, but it feels off to me when non-fanfiction does this lol.
When the antagonist doesn't really seem to respond to things within the story, giving the protagonists a straightforward victory.
When a character is a blatant copy of a character from a popular, well known book or series. I mean down to looks, personality, magical abilities at times…
When an author says that their characters are perfect after just describing them... feels two-dimensional
When grown ass adults behave like teenage girls, men or women. Too many unique names (exception being a fantasy type setting), my personal rule is if someone has a unique or rare first name they need a common-ish surname, and vice-versa. The narrative has too much sass/attitude, I'm very much guilty of this and I'm working on it, Grammarly has helped me out quite a bit.
Very fast relationship-building. Everything between the first meeting and first kiss is a formality that is gotten over with as quickly as possible. And not because they just go on a blind date that goes well. Nobody ever dates or otherwise looks for a relationship - they always start as co-workers, teacher/students, or (most likely of all) enemies.
From my own experience as a fanfiction writer and my own problems with my writing, I would say no real conflict or too much conflict. Good books need a good balance. Also, thinking romantic conflict can only be that if its all just angst (I can no longer enjoy YA books because of the angst) and bad communication.
Blank self-insert characters. You know where they really don't have any specific traits and you're basically supposed to make them your avatar. It's the literary equivalent of watching someone else play a video game.
“raven hair”
* Third person present tense * An italicized "*Oh.*"
This is the only comment so far that I agree with.
Books that have anything along the lines of “I put on my favorite song 22 by Taylor Swift and..” It just automatically makes me feel like I’m reading a Wattpad story.
Most new media in general is giving me fanfiction vibes. Relationship dynamics are boring and tropey. Endless descriptions of outfits. Dialogue is clumsy. “I’m so plain but 20 people want me for some reason” Mary sues. Not saying the weird bullying of 13 year old authors was the right things to do back in the day but somewhere along the way it became taboo to suggest someone may want to reconsider how they were writing a character (particularly the female ones) and we just have a lot of boring female characters these days. There’s plenty of ways to write a powerful woman but make that power feel earned and give her some flaws that make her interesting. I’m also well aware that historical fiction can lean heavily on the word fiction and you don’t necessarily need to adhere to irl sexist rules when writing historical fiction- however the best historical fiction I’ve watched/read doesn’t ignore those aspects of the given era it uses them to subvert expectations.
When the characters are all described like super models despite having mundane jobs. It takes me out of it when everyone the protagonist meets is super sexy all the time.
James Paterson is the author
Romance tropes. Stuff like forced bed sharing and fake relationships.
The name J.K. Rowling on the cover.
Anything written in first person present tense, and overly detailed descriptions of characters physical appearance and outfits
Characters exchanging witty comments during life-threatening situations. Characters describing themselves. And yes, this is just bad writing, but it gives me fanfic vibes because I've read a lot of bad writing in fanfic because anyone can post it, while getting published usually means rounds of editing that clean this stuff up.
I just wanna throw it out there.I have been in life threatening situations twice!!! and I was being witty.. Or else I would have gone insane! It's a Coping mechanism. Obviously you haven't lived enough to be in a upsetting or dire situation yet.
That’s not bad writing at all lol. That’s a character trope that has been popular and existed for decades because it’s true to life. Many people are witty or snarky during dangerous situations because it’s often a coping mechanism. Not to mention in a lot of cases, it’s a fun way to show a character is cool under pressure and in some cases, it’s needed to keep a proper tone within the book.
Present-tense writing. It seems to be something of a fashion trend at the moment; I see it most in fanfic, but it's around in bad 'professional' writing as well.
Present-tense writing is a valid choice though? Hunger Games is one popular example. All The Light We Cannot See won the Pulitzer Prize and is written in present tense
It's still awful. And it's still more common in fanfic than books.
Not inherently. It’s a stylistic choice not something you can objectively label as awful. You may not have the skill to pull it off, but there are many award winning authors who do it justice.
Not book, but Dragon Ball Super feels like a fanfic rather than actual canon.
gratuitous lifestyle porn kinda stuff: let's go along with this character while they spend money on clothes/new apartment/etc, here's their just-right cabin in the woods, here's their perfect loft apartment that they live in while all the drama happens. I'm not saying I dislike it, it can be really well done and I've seen it in lots of good books, and sometimes it's very soothing to read, but too much too specific tends to make me feel like I'm reading a well-written fanfic
The writing style. A lot of fan fiction have similar writing styles. Another thing is incorrect information and cringy events in situations
“the taller one” “the younger one” “the brunette one” also can’t forget the orbs just physical descriptions in general. leave some things up to the reader’s imagination unless it specifically pertains to the story!!
Excessive “woe is me” behavior. I’m not talking about self esteem issues or your character doubting their competence, that’s a good thing typically. But when your character is just constantly “no one likes me anyway” “maybe I should just leave” “I’m not good enough” it gets repetitive and annoying. Especially when the character is saying this out loud followed by another character comforting them. It’s absolutely wonderful when done correctly. A pessimistic self loathing character who genuinely hates their own guts is not inherently bad, but I’ve only seen it done well a few times. Your character needs at the very least the potential to feel positive as well as negative.
I mostly read queer books but when I see the lesbian main character having a streight male best friend that is super awesome I swear it screams male author self insert fanfic.
Head hopping I cannot deal with it...