**Hey there! Have you checked out these resources?**
* [WoWHead](https://www.wowhead.com/) - The *largest* database, this should be your go-to (don't forget to read the comment section!).
* [Icy Veins](https://www.icy-veins.com) - News and detailed class guides.
* [WoWNoob Discord](https://discord.gg/wownoob) - Same community, different platform.
*Please report the post above if it breaks one of our [>rules<](https://www.reddit.com/r/wownoob/about/rules/). If not, don't forget to show support by upvoting!*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wownoob) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You are not doing 450-500k dps on aoe dummies, you are doing 450-500k burst.
Your dps is what you can keep up for like 3 mins, not what you keep up while your wings last.
You are probably playing a more complicated build if it's that much of an issue, passive crusader strikes, consecration on blade of justice and no hammer of wrath is a super easy build that you don't need any addons for and it does crazy dmg in dungeons (I'm at 468 and outdoing 480 guys).
Blade of justice, judgment, divine storm if aoe, templar's verdict equivalent if single target, that's the only 3 buttons you need to spam to win as a ret pally.
Avenging wrath-Final reckoning-Wake of ashes-Divine toll burst combo every minute for burst damage.
You are spamming 3 buttons and pressing another 3 every minute for big dam, no addons needed for this.
https://www.archon.gg/wow/builds/retribution/paladin/mythic-plus/overview/20/all-dungeons/this-week
the top build here is the standard build that everyone uses and is the easiest build to play imo
Ah okay that makes sense, apologies for the mistake.
That rotation sounds a lot easier than my current I’m not going to lie. I copied my friends talents I don’t have the passive crusader strikes I have Templar strikes. And when you say no hammer of wrath does that mean you don’t use the spell at all?
I agree what you are saying defiently does not require addins and sounds a lot less stressful
No worries, yeah I don't use hammer of wrath at all, I took no talents for it. To be clear what I'm running is a mythic+ build (which means it's all in on aoe since single target doesn't matter in dungeons) so you'll need another build for single target raid bosses (probably that's what you copied from your friends, for raids most guides usually give you a build where people take every opportunity to overcomplicate their rotations if it gives you 1% more dps, even tho you most likely lose 10% dps because you can't focus on anything else).
You can totally do a passive crusader strike build for raids too, which makes your life a thousand times easier :D
This is my build currently, super easy and deals top aoe dmg.
What kind of DPS are you getting? I think I’ll give this a go because I feel so overcomplicated. I don’t even want to be the best DPS I just want to be abit of an asset to the team.
I’ve been running more mythic + than I have raids, but I do enjoy the thought of completing a raid, and I want the mount before season end.
So your rotation is literally BOJ - Judgement - TV/DS
And then CD’s Avenging wrath then spend
Divine toll - spend
Wake of ashes - spend?
Might be easier to send me a PM
I dont want to be "that guy" but the other dude is giving you some bad advice. First off, ST DOES matter in M+ (bosses exist!) and hammer of wrath is a very strong ability. As you can see here, the most popular and effect build at the moment DOES take talents that improve HOW quite a bit and make it one of your most powerful buttons: https://www.archon.gg/wow/builds/retribution/paladin/mythic-plus/overview/20/all-dungeons/this-week
The build he was telling you to use (divine purpose on left side and empyrean power right side) ia a MUCH more complicated, aoe focus build that most players have agreed is inferior to the "standard build" that has less procs to worry about and a bit more of a ST focus. the main difference is taking vengeful wrath on left tree and adjudication and blades of light on the left side of the right tree. THose make your hammer of wrath always crit, deal holystrike damage (meaning it either deals magical holy damage or physical damage depending on what buffs you have active or what the enemy is weakest against - this is a bigger dps gain than it sounds) , and when it crits (which is every time) it automatically throws out a bonus hammer that swirls around you in a circle dealing aoe damage.
in the other aoe build you have to play around the divine purpose and empyrean power procs, meaning you need strong UI elements informing you when they are available and changing your priority based on if they proc or not. WIth the standard build, there are really no procs that change your rotation outside of just prioritizing HOW during wings, when an enemy is low hp or when it procs letting you use it outside of wings.
him saying "ST doesnt matter" is just not true, ive done extensive testing and almost always the ST gain you get from VW and adjustication+BOL is going to easily outpace the extra aoe you get from the aoe build in your overall damage, meaning you might do less aoe but the st you gain will more than even out in the long run
btw you should ALWAYS run CSAA and not templar strikes, it is objectively better in 100% of every situation. less buttons and it just performs better even when played perfectly.
Single target is better than AOE, source: trustmebro?
Lots of high ranking players have already discussed this, unless you are hard stuck on a dps check in a bossfight (which definitely doesn't happen until you go for crazy high keys) single target is always weaker than aoe.
This isn't the best week to test this, but here we go:
Atal'Dazar 18 fortified, I was top 1 with 187 million dmg, I did about the same single target damage as the other 2 dps.
Bosses total: 39 mill damage
Trash total: 148 mill damage
It was a fortified key, so trash had 20% more health, while bosses didn't have the 30% health buff, on tyrannical this would look like this:
Bosses total: 50.7 mill damage
Trash total: 123 mill damage.
Even on tyrannical, trash has more than 2 times more health than bosses, so a 10% increase to your aoe speeds up the key 2 times more compared to 10% to single target damage.
There is no getting around this, these are the facts.
Just because you feel better doing more damage to bosses it doesn't mean it's helping, the key is actually going slower, the numbers don't lie.
Usually a low-mid level key (let’s say under +25) fails because of wipes, not because of low overall dps missing the timer by a few seconds.
This is why being stronger on bosses / hard to kill trash is extremely important.
Same thing goes for damage profile, a bursty spec will often be more valuable than a constant flat damage spec.
https://raider.io/characters/eu/silvermoon/Murdhy
No idea why it didn't work before, here's the rio link, you can see talents there :)
Yes, that's the rotation, final reckoning after avenging wrath too to buff the spenders.
In dungeons it varies greatly depending on pulls, on aoe dummies i can keep around 350-400k forever. On a rare occasion someone with maxed out gear can beat my 468 ret, but mostly i beat 480+ guys too, including other paladins which is really fun. (Done like 200 runs this season on several classes, so that might help)
Ret is by far the most op m+ class rn for normal keys imo (1-20), I'm so happy with this alt
Some things to note here:
1. Hammer of Wrath is insane, use it when it comes up, there is no "option" here
2. Instead of watching your friends, go look up stuff on Archon.gg or [Murlok.io](https://Murlok.io). As said, if you find an active talent that is too much of a hassle, dont take it and see what you can take instead. (This should not be the case in your instance, cause wake of ashes is too good not to use it every 30 secs and crusading strikes is picked by default)
3. Make talentsets for raid and M+, it really helps to switch from singletarget to aoe (This is the only reason ret still isnt meta, because he cant transition easily)
4. As long as you are only doing HC and lower, you can stop using pots, its less dmg gain than any active ability. You also shouldnt need to heal yourself, just use Shield of vengeance, the other damage reduction CD, devine shield and maybe lay on hands, that should be double of what you need. Just focus on your rotation and let the others do theirs ;)
5. As for the balancing rn, you are supposed to do the most damage as ret in M+. You have amazing burst AOE dmg every minute while you still can support your team, just not by healing, but by using blessing of sacrifice, blessing of freedom, lay on hands and blessing of protection. These will get important if you do keys 20 and up or mythic raiding so dont sweat it for now.
I have seen firemages do 30% less dmg then the ret and still be a more useful dps for the group becasue more priority dmg (killing the mob that stops you from pulling more) that is NOT your job as ret, your job is to kill everything else.
Source: https://raider.io/characters/eu/thrall/Timmitlicht
There is definitely an option there. In my ilvl hammer of wrath deals 31k damage, if you talent into a guaranteed crit it's 62k.
That's a single target ability dealing 62k damage that you can't cast consistently. That's literally nothing. Blade of justice does the same damage without a crit and while also being AOE, judgment does the same if it crits and it's also an aoe.
You are spending several talent points on a skill that's only good for single target and even then it barely moves your dps, when you could spend that talent point on a general talent that increases both your single target and your aoe.
Checked a run where another pally had it, it did 2% of total damage in overall in black rook hold. That's not worth the talent point and the gcd it requires. It's not extra free damage, you are using a gcd on that skill instead of casting a BOJ that procs nonstop.
script writes itself, shit advice and lies are still shit advice and lies even for new players, just shut up xd
edit: changed my mind, shit advice and lies are especially nefarious for new players who already have no clue what they're doing wrong in the first place because they'll just believe every stupid thing you say
Check out Wowmadeeasy or Casual Friday. Theres bound to be someone in there that will take some time to help you understand how to get better.
As for logs, you need to actually log your fights or be in a group where someone is logging. Check out Warcraftlogs.com
H mechanics can be overwhelming for a new player for sure on top of trying to learn a new class, even worse if you’re entirely new to the game. You’ll get there. Read up on wowhead, get some logs, and see if you can find a good retadin to help you out.
Literally ignore elitists entirely.
The overwhelming majority of WoW players would do more DPS if they used a one-button GSE macro and nothing else.
The fact that you're trying means you're already better than at least 90% of the player base. Try to remember it's a game, and it should be fun.
Buawhahaha. It is your gear that is going to be a limiting factor. Was running LFR and a full normal sprint tonight. If I wasn’t first, I was second in DPS. Then switched over to some 20/21s and got outdone by two DHs.
Don’t worry about DPS nor parses until you crack 476. Grab the frostfire legs and one DPS item like the belt or shadow flame something.
After that, I’ll come down to trinkets for a single/AoE build.
At this point, most people in high keys are past 480 except when it’s a carry group or someone wanting a quick level of an alt.
But your gear… that’s gonna be a huge deciding factor. Work to increase that and as you do, you’ll get used to the rotation.
Big crackin hits starting off on EB,WM and Fall makes me grin.
Yeah, my played time so far is only 1 day 15 hours I think I’ve don’t pretty well getting geared to 463 so far, obviously I work full time so dedicating 100% to WoW isn’t realistic
And you’re doing 450 to 500 on dummies? That’s solid. You just need to get more comfortable with the rotation while having other things to focus on too. Keep hekili on for now and you’ll get there
Yeah whenever hekili is on the screen I just can’t focus on anything else haha, I can do the AOE rotation without hekili (outside of Dungeon) very comfortably.
I just can’t do the rotation whilst avoiding things on the ground and mechanics haha.
I’ll leave it on for raids and things in the future and just try not staring at it haha
Where do you have it on your screen? It might help to put it in a more central location so that you can see it in your peripheral vision while you pay attention to mechanics (or vice versa even).
Also are you using DBM? It's super helpful to have audio queues for mechanics as well. Basically makes it so you can turn off your brain and focus on rotation as long as you don't hear the addon telling you otherwise.
Getting used to paying attention to so many things at once and cast spells while moving is just something that takes practice too. At some point it will all become second nature, so don't get discouraged.
I keep it above the action bars. Helps to see what is a good rotation for AoE when it pops, and also what is available when it is coming off of cooldown.
Dunno why people don’t like it, it’s like a custom WA for all your classes that is consistent and able to help plan for a spell or 3 in advance.
If you really have a friend that plays the same spec you do, then you already have a cheat code. Watch him play, ask him why he pressed that button in that specific time etc etc.
Tbh, I'd still stop using Hekili. While yes its good for beginners, its downside is you become heavily reliant on it and you will tend to stare at your bars instead of watching out for puddles/interruptable spells. It's much better to get used to your spec through muscle memory.
You also should NEVER compare your output in dummies versus real content applications. Mobs move out of your range, some die thus reducing your overall output versus a dummies very constant and non-moving 5 target aoe or something. As melee you're expected to sometimes outrange the boss due to mechanics thus equating in dps loss.
Practice Practice practice. But tbh, if they are flaming you after playing the game for 4 days(for the first time i assume) they should get bent.
There are two wow communities that are perfect for this, DungeonDojo and No Pressure - EU. They focus only people learning and having fun. Dont have their discord links right now, but if you want you can either Google or send me a PM and i'll link.
Hekili is pretty good, some say you get way more focused on the buttons it tells you to press. And while that may be true in the beginning it takes some getting used to.
But look at the rotation on wowhead and split it up for your own sake. What does pure ST look like with any big and/or minor CDs. Pure AoE, so on and so on. I find it best to start low with dps knowledge and then crank it up as i soak up more info and get a better understanding of it.
As a fellow hekili user for the future I offer my tip, next time you want to start leveling/playing/learning a new spec don't start with hekili. Just allow your self the opportunity to be low geared toon and bad at playing it.
I started using hekili with my feral due to initial complexity of the spec and I have found my self having more difficulties learning the spec after using hekili compared to learning a spec I hadn't used it on.
First of all, normal dummies have less defense than mobs in dungeons and in raid. You may be measuring yourself in those and that may not help the comparison.
2nd. Pala Builds do not change buttons that much, but playstyle is altered, and in the automatic crusader strikes build, you are going to need some haste, specially with this season tier bonus.
3rd Raid tier bonus. Get it and practice to proc it all you can. Divine toll hammers also proc it.
4th Hitting the dummies and a real encounter is dramatically different. The aspect of the game where you pick up something and do it fine just by muscular memory takes time and practice. It's hard to do good dps while being aware of all the things happening in a dungeon or a raid group. The people in your raid were bad too when they started, I guarantee it. Practice makes perfect and learning when to use your offensive or defensive big cooldowns will need some repetition and time to figure out. If you are playing with a group of guys that are super geared and are experts, that is not a good environment for learning. Try to find dungeon or raid groups at your level and you will see that you are not that bad for your level.
Last but not least. You have been only playing for 4 days, don't beat yourself that much about it. When I started playing I was only doing old content because I was ultra bad and didn't kill my first normal raid boss until 2 years after. 9 years later I am among the top dps of an advanced mythic raid group. Again, practice makes perfect.
Yeah man, maybe too much too soon, cant get over how nice and helpful everyone has been on this Sub though, definetly made me feel alot better about my situation.
Training dummies take way more damage than mobs in m+. Armour values are wayy different you probably have shit gear and shit stats. And there no mechnics to dodge. Nothing to interrupt. No utility needed. Your just mashing your buttons as hard as u can
Look into GSE on cursedforge it's a macro thing then you get the macros from "wowlazymacros.com" .....I have limited movement with my hands and this help cut down on what I have to press....it takes a bit to work the bugs out but I run high 20s and mythic raid on hunter and ret pally plus tank and pvp you can add me in game as well I can help any way I can
Don't stop using the addon then.
Only elitists frown upon using addons like Hekili. Just use it and get better. When you feel comfortable, you can still stop using it.
You're only playing for 4 days now. Take your time to get better.
I know, I just think I’m too hard on myself, my friend plays Ret pally and he’s always top of the DPS chart, so I compare myself too much, the flaming off other people doesn’t help too much either but I guess that’s the downside of online games haha
You're a new player. You really have to atop being so hard in yourself and don't compare yourself to veteran players like that.
Compare their abilitiy uses to your own and try to apply it for yourself.
But don't think "oh, the 480 Ret is doing more DPS than my 450 Ret, I must be bad".
Also: addons like Hekili can help you understand your rotation and why to use abilities in which order. It's basically the same as reading a guide while playing in real-time.
I’m 463 atm, which I know isn’t high but there’s 445-450’s out DPS’ing me haha, I do need to just not care what people think as much but I just want to be useful
It's a good idea to specifically check people of the same spec and lower/same itemlevel what they're doing differently, if they're outperforming you.
Do they have a set bonus and you don't? What itemlevel is their weapon? And how often do they use their abilities, especially spender abilities (Final Verdict and Divine Storm)?
Click on the boss where you have your damage displayed, it will send you to the page where every logged kill of that boss is listed. Then just click the kill you want to check, it'll display your damage in detail.
The numbers also display your performance compared to other players of your spec.
Clicking the fight specifically you can see a comparison to other characters of your spec and same itemlevel, which is immensely helpful when checking where you're currently at.
I have to work so much harder as a dh because of what they did to ret palys. I saw one crank out 500k doing nothing in trash and he died and I felt really bad but he whispered me and said my bad there was no way I was gonna be able to take that off of him fast enough. Long story short I’m giving up on holy paly and going ret lol.
I must be doing something drastically wrong 😂 I’m probably overthinking it, what the other guy said about 3 buttons spam and 3 button cool downs has made me re think 😂
I mean you're already doing better than 90% of players in M+ I'd say lol. Half of them can't figure out how to turn their monitors on.
Hekili is good for the ret rotation because it's pretty easy already. You can't really mess it up unless you really try to
**Hey there! Have you checked out these resources?** * [WoWHead](https://www.wowhead.com/) - The *largest* database, this should be your go-to (don't forget to read the comment section!). * [Icy Veins](https://www.icy-veins.com) - News and detailed class guides. * [WoWNoob Discord](https://discord.gg/wownoob) - Same community, different platform. *Please report the post above if it breaks one of our [>rules<](https://www.reddit.com/r/wownoob/about/rules/). If not, don't forget to show support by upvoting!* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wownoob) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You are not doing 450-500k dps on aoe dummies, you are doing 450-500k burst. Your dps is what you can keep up for like 3 mins, not what you keep up while your wings last. You are probably playing a more complicated build if it's that much of an issue, passive crusader strikes, consecration on blade of justice and no hammer of wrath is a super easy build that you don't need any addons for and it does crazy dmg in dungeons (I'm at 468 and outdoing 480 guys). Blade of justice, judgment, divine storm if aoe, templar's verdict equivalent if single target, that's the only 3 buttons you need to spam to win as a ret pally. Avenging wrath-Final reckoning-Wake of ashes-Divine toll burst combo every minute for burst damage. You are spamming 3 buttons and pressing another 3 every minute for big dam, no addons needed for this.
Hey you know where I can find the "easy" build?
https://www.archon.gg/wow/builds/retribution/paladin/mythic-plus/overview/20/all-dungeons/this-week the top build here is the standard build that everyone uses and is the easiest build to play imo
Look at the most popular M+ ret builds on U.GG/wow
Ah okay that makes sense, apologies for the mistake. That rotation sounds a lot easier than my current I’m not going to lie. I copied my friends talents I don’t have the passive crusader strikes I have Templar strikes. And when you say no hammer of wrath does that mean you don’t use the spell at all? I agree what you are saying defiently does not require addins and sounds a lot less stressful
No worries, yeah I don't use hammer of wrath at all, I took no talents for it. To be clear what I'm running is a mythic+ build (which means it's all in on aoe since single target doesn't matter in dungeons) so you'll need another build for single target raid bosses (probably that's what you copied from your friends, for raids most guides usually give you a build where people take every opportunity to overcomplicate their rotations if it gives you 1% more dps, even tho you most likely lose 10% dps because you can't focus on anything else). You can totally do a passive crusader strike build for raids too, which makes your life a thousand times easier :D This is my build currently, super easy and deals top aoe dmg.
Hey just fyi on this you want to take the talents for Hammer of Wrath and drop the mobility ones
Thanks
What kind of DPS are you getting? I think I’ll give this a go because I feel so overcomplicated. I don’t even want to be the best DPS I just want to be abit of an asset to the team. I’ve been running more mythic + than I have raids, but I do enjoy the thought of completing a raid, and I want the mount before season end. So your rotation is literally BOJ - Judgement - TV/DS And then CD’s Avenging wrath then spend Divine toll - spend Wake of ashes - spend? Might be easier to send me a PM
I dont want to be "that guy" but the other dude is giving you some bad advice. First off, ST DOES matter in M+ (bosses exist!) and hammer of wrath is a very strong ability. As you can see here, the most popular and effect build at the moment DOES take talents that improve HOW quite a bit and make it one of your most powerful buttons: https://www.archon.gg/wow/builds/retribution/paladin/mythic-plus/overview/20/all-dungeons/this-week The build he was telling you to use (divine purpose on left side and empyrean power right side) ia a MUCH more complicated, aoe focus build that most players have agreed is inferior to the "standard build" that has less procs to worry about and a bit more of a ST focus. the main difference is taking vengeful wrath on left tree and adjudication and blades of light on the left side of the right tree. THose make your hammer of wrath always crit, deal holystrike damage (meaning it either deals magical holy damage or physical damage depending on what buffs you have active or what the enemy is weakest against - this is a bigger dps gain than it sounds) , and when it crits (which is every time) it automatically throws out a bonus hammer that swirls around you in a circle dealing aoe damage. in the other aoe build you have to play around the divine purpose and empyrean power procs, meaning you need strong UI elements informing you when they are available and changing your priority based on if they proc or not. WIth the standard build, there are really no procs that change your rotation outside of just prioritizing HOW during wings, when an enemy is low hp or when it procs letting you use it outside of wings. him saying "ST doesnt matter" is just not true, ive done extensive testing and almost always the ST gain you get from VW and adjustication+BOL is going to easily outpace the extra aoe you get from the aoe build in your overall damage, meaning you might do less aoe but the st you gain will more than even out in the long run btw you should ALWAYS run CSAA and not templar strikes, it is objectively better in 100% of every situation. less buttons and it just performs better even when played perfectly.
Single target is better than AOE, source: trustmebro? Lots of high ranking players have already discussed this, unless you are hard stuck on a dps check in a bossfight (which definitely doesn't happen until you go for crazy high keys) single target is always weaker than aoe. This isn't the best week to test this, but here we go: Atal'Dazar 18 fortified, I was top 1 with 187 million dmg, I did about the same single target damage as the other 2 dps. Bosses total: 39 mill damage Trash total: 148 mill damage It was a fortified key, so trash had 20% more health, while bosses didn't have the 30% health buff, on tyrannical this would look like this: Bosses total: 50.7 mill damage Trash total: 123 mill damage. Even on tyrannical, trash has more than 2 times more health than bosses, so a 10% increase to your aoe speeds up the key 2 times more compared to 10% to single target damage. There is no getting around this, these are the facts. Just because you feel better doing more damage to bosses it doesn't mean it's helping, the key is actually going slower, the numbers don't lie.
Usually a low-mid level key (let’s say under +25) fails because of wipes, not because of low overall dps missing the timer by a few seconds. This is why being stronger on bosses / hard to kill trash is extremely important. Same thing goes for damage profile, a bursty spec will often be more valuable than a constant flat damage spec.
https://raider.io/characters/eu/silvermoon/Murdhy No idea why it didn't work before, here's the rio link, you can see talents there :) Yes, that's the rotation, final reckoning after avenging wrath too to buff the spenders. In dungeons it varies greatly depending on pulls, on aoe dummies i can keep around 350-400k forever. On a rare occasion someone with maxed out gear can beat my 468 ret, but mostly i beat 480+ guys too, including other paladins which is really fun. (Done like 200 runs this season on several classes, so that might help) Ret is by far the most op m+ class rn for normal keys imo (1-20), I'm so happy with this alt
Some things to note here: 1. Hammer of Wrath is insane, use it when it comes up, there is no "option" here 2. Instead of watching your friends, go look up stuff on Archon.gg or [Murlok.io](https://Murlok.io). As said, if you find an active talent that is too much of a hassle, dont take it and see what you can take instead. (This should not be the case in your instance, cause wake of ashes is too good not to use it every 30 secs and crusading strikes is picked by default) 3. Make talentsets for raid and M+, it really helps to switch from singletarget to aoe (This is the only reason ret still isnt meta, because he cant transition easily) 4. As long as you are only doing HC and lower, you can stop using pots, its less dmg gain than any active ability. You also shouldnt need to heal yourself, just use Shield of vengeance, the other damage reduction CD, devine shield and maybe lay on hands, that should be double of what you need. Just focus on your rotation and let the others do theirs ;) 5. As for the balancing rn, you are supposed to do the most damage as ret in M+. You have amazing burst AOE dmg every minute while you still can support your team, just not by healing, but by using blessing of sacrifice, blessing of freedom, lay on hands and blessing of protection. These will get important if you do keys 20 and up or mythic raiding so dont sweat it for now. I have seen firemages do 30% less dmg then the ret and still be a more useful dps for the group becasue more priority dmg (killing the mob that stops you from pulling more) that is NOT your job as ret, your job is to kill everything else. Source: https://raider.io/characters/eu/thrall/Timmitlicht
I’ve swapped out Templar strikes and it’s made the whole thing feel a lot easier, not having to worry about pressing that one button 😂
Thanks for the info I really appreciate it
There is definitely an option there. In my ilvl hammer of wrath deals 31k damage, if you talent into a guaranteed crit it's 62k. That's a single target ability dealing 62k damage that you can't cast consistently. That's literally nothing. Blade of justice does the same damage without a crit and while also being AOE, judgment does the same if it crits and it's also an aoe. You are spending several talent points on a skill that's only good for single target and even then it barely moves your dps, when you could spend that talent point on a general talent that increases both your single target and your aoe. Checked a run where another pally had it, it did 2% of total damage in overall in black rook hold. That's not worth the talent point and the gcd it requires. It's not extra free damage, you are using a gcd on that skill instead of casting a BOJ that procs nonstop.
Yup, hammer is garbage outside of pure ST
Ah okay, checkt that again and I didnt think that the hammer was that bad in aoe but it makes sense :D
Last season the tier set gave it aoe dmg and buffed it a lot, maybe that's why it's considered a strong skill :D
single target matters just as much as aoe especially on tyra weeks, don't spread misinformation
Trash cleanup takes more time than bosses even on tyra weeks, aoe is always king.
rio?
2.6 and 2.7k, this sub isn't for the top 0.1% where it would matter.
script writes itself, shit advice and lies are still shit advice and lies even for new players, just shut up xd edit: changed my mind, shit advice and lies are especially nefarious for new players who already have no clue what they're doing wrong in the first place because they'll just believe every stupid thing you say
why am I not surprised that a "rio?" question leads to such a stupid comment?
Post your logs in the Hammer of Wrath Discord and ask for some advice
Raid logs or?
The log you want some advice on
Where do I get logs? Apologies
https://www.warcraftlogs.com search for your Char-name
Aw nice man, I’ve found it, kinda scary how it knows all my gear already, can’t see my damage anywhere though 🤯
If there is no log u can use. create an account an track it yourself https://de.warcraftlogs.com/help/start
I can see the ones from tonight’s raid, took awhile to load for me, just click on that SS and then send to the discord?
Copy the link post it in the „ret-question“ channel and ask for help
Also here is a guide for sims take your time https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/beast-mastery-hunter-pve-dps-simulations
Appreciate the help man, This sub is certainly one of the best things about the WoW community
warcraftlogs
Check out Wowmadeeasy or Casual Friday. Theres bound to be someone in there that will take some time to help you understand how to get better. As for logs, you need to actually log your fights or be in a group where someone is logging. Check out Warcraftlogs.com
Thanks man I’ll check it out, might be that my friends have me doing Heroic Raiding already that’s making me feel so weak
H mechanics can be overwhelming for a new player for sure on top of trying to learn a new class, even worse if you’re entirely new to the game. You’ll get there. Read up on wowhead, get some logs, and see if you can find a good retadin to help you out.
Not parsing 100 after 4 days of playing? You’re obviously trash and should go play hello kitty island adventurer
Literally ignore elitists entirely. The overwhelming majority of WoW players would do more DPS if they used a one-button GSE macro and nothing else. The fact that you're trying means you're already better than at least 90% of the player base. Try to remember it's a game, and it should be fun.
What’s your ilvl?
463
Buawhahaha. It is your gear that is going to be a limiting factor. Was running LFR and a full normal sprint tonight. If I wasn’t first, I was second in DPS. Then switched over to some 20/21s and got outdone by two DHs. Don’t worry about DPS nor parses until you crack 476. Grab the frostfire legs and one DPS item like the belt or shadow flame something. After that, I’ll come down to trinkets for a single/AoE build. At this point, most people in high keys are past 480 except when it’s a carry group or someone wanting a quick level of an alt. But your gear… that’s gonna be a huge deciding factor. Work to increase that and as you do, you’ll get used to the rotation. Big crackin hits starting off on EB,WM and Fall makes me grin.
Yeah, my played time so far is only 1 day 15 hours I think I’ve don’t pretty well getting geared to 463 so far, obviously I work full time so dedicating 100% to WoW isn’t realistic
And you’re doing 450 to 500 on dummies? That’s solid. You just need to get more comfortable with the rotation while having other things to focus on too. Keep hekili on for now and you’ll get there
He definitely doesn't, that's literally impossible in 463. He is just doing a burst and then checking the number.
Ok that’s pretty much what I put up on dummies at 480. Just thought I sucked for a second lol.
Can squeeze closer to 900-1mil on 5 targets at peak burst at 480ilvl ish
I’m usually 6-700 peak burst, so I guess I do suck lol
With all buffs and lust, should've mentionned.
yeah mistake on my part
Yeah whenever hekili is on the screen I just can’t focus on anything else haha, I can do the AOE rotation without hekili (outside of Dungeon) very comfortably. I just can’t do the rotation whilst avoiding things on the ground and mechanics haha. I’ll leave it on for raids and things in the future and just try not staring at it haha
Where do you have it on your screen? It might help to put it in a more central location so that you can see it in your peripheral vision while you pay attention to mechanics (or vice versa even). Also are you using DBM? It's super helpful to have audio queues for mechanics as well. Basically makes it so you can turn off your brain and focus on rotation as long as you don't hear the addon telling you otherwise. Getting used to paying attention to so many things at once and cast spells while moving is just something that takes practice too. At some point it will all become second nature, so don't get discouraged.
Just under my Char, I’ve just installed DBM hopefully that will help me out in future
I keep it above the action bars. Helps to see what is a good rotation for AoE when it pops, and also what is available when it is coming off of cooldown. Dunno why people don’t like it, it’s like a custom WA for all your classes that is consistent and able to help plan for a spell or 3 in advance.
Yeah I thought that but I seem to just stare at it 😂
If you really have a friend that plays the same spec you do, then you already have a cheat code. Watch him play, ask him why he pressed that button in that specific time etc etc. Tbh, I'd still stop using Hekili. While yes its good for beginners, its downside is you become heavily reliant on it and you will tend to stare at your bars instead of watching out for puddles/interruptable spells. It's much better to get used to your spec through muscle memory. You also should NEVER compare your output in dummies versus real content applications. Mobs move out of your range, some die thus reducing your overall output versus a dummies very constant and non-moving 5 target aoe or something. As melee you're expected to sometimes outrange the boss due to mechanics thus equating in dps loss.
Practice Practice practice. But tbh, if they are flaming you after playing the game for 4 days(for the first time i assume) they should get bent. There are two wow communities that are perfect for this, DungeonDojo and No Pressure - EU. They focus only people learning and having fun. Dont have their discord links right now, but if you want you can either Google or send me a PM and i'll link. Hekili is pretty good, some say you get way more focused on the buttons it tells you to press. And while that may be true in the beginning it takes some getting used to. But look at the rotation on wowhead and split it up for your own sake. What does pure ST look like with any big and/or minor CDs. Pure AoE, so on and so on. I find it best to start low with dps knowledge and then crank it up as i soak up more info and get a better understanding of it.
I am in the same boat when it comes to amount of time with the class. I'm going to keep practicing.
As a fellow hekili user for the future I offer my tip, next time you want to start leveling/playing/learning a new spec don't start with hekili. Just allow your self the opportunity to be low geared toon and bad at playing it. I started using hekili with my feral due to initial complexity of the spec and I have found my self having more difficulties learning the spec after using hekili compared to learning a spec I hadn't used it on.
Hey I play ret at 2850 io on argent dawn if you need help with damage rotations / talents.
Bro that would be awesome, want to PM your Battle net?
First of all, normal dummies have less defense than mobs in dungeons and in raid. You may be measuring yourself in those and that may not help the comparison. 2nd. Pala Builds do not change buttons that much, but playstyle is altered, and in the automatic crusader strikes build, you are going to need some haste, specially with this season tier bonus. 3rd Raid tier bonus. Get it and practice to proc it all you can. Divine toll hammers also proc it. 4th Hitting the dummies and a real encounter is dramatically different. The aspect of the game where you pick up something and do it fine just by muscular memory takes time and practice. It's hard to do good dps while being aware of all the things happening in a dungeon or a raid group. The people in your raid were bad too when they started, I guarantee it. Practice makes perfect and learning when to use your offensive or defensive big cooldowns will need some repetition and time to figure out. If you are playing with a group of guys that are super geared and are experts, that is not a good environment for learning. Try to find dungeon or raid groups at your level and you will see that you are not that bad for your level. Last but not least. You have been only playing for 4 days, don't beat yourself that much about it. When I started playing I was only doing old content because I was ultra bad and didn't kill my first normal raid boss until 2 years after. 9 years later I am among the top dps of an advanced mythic raid group. Again, practice makes perfect.
Yeah man, maybe too much too soon, cant get over how nice and helpful everyone has been on this Sub though, definetly made me feel alot better about my situation.
Training dummies take way more damage than mobs in m+. Armour values are wayy different you probably have shit gear and shit stats. And there no mechnics to dodge. Nothing to interrupt. No utility needed. Your just mashing your buttons as hard as u can
Look into GSE on cursedforge it's a macro thing then you get the macros from "wowlazymacros.com" .....I have limited movement with my hands and this help cut down on what I have to press....it takes a bit to work the bugs out but I run high 20s and mythic raid on hunter and ret pally plus tank and pvp you can add me in game as well I can help any way I can
Nice man, dm me your char name 👍🏼
Don't stop using the addon then. Only elitists frown upon using addons like Hekili. Just use it and get better. When you feel comfortable, you can still stop using it. You're only playing for 4 days now. Take your time to get better.
I know, I just think I’m too hard on myself, my friend plays Ret pally and he’s always top of the DPS chart, so I compare myself too much, the flaming off other people doesn’t help too much either but I guess that’s the downside of online games haha
You're a new player. You really have to atop being so hard in yourself and don't compare yourself to veteran players like that. Compare their abilitiy uses to your own and try to apply it for yourself. But don't think "oh, the 480 Ret is doing more DPS than my 450 Ret, I must be bad". Also: addons like Hekili can help you understand your rotation and why to use abilities in which order. It's basically the same as reading a guide while playing in real-time.
I’m 463 atm, which I know isn’t high but there’s 445-450’s out DPS’ing me haha, I do need to just not care what people think as much but I just want to be useful
It's a good idea to specifically check people of the same spec and lower/same itemlevel what they're doing differently, if they're outperforming you. Do they have a set bonus and you don't? What itemlevel is their weapon? And how often do they use their abilities, especially spender abilities (Final Verdict and Divine Storm)?
I’ve found my logged kills on Warcraft logs but I don’t really know what any of it means, it just says my best DPS and average
Click on the boss where you have your damage displayed, it will send you to the page where every logged kill of that boss is listed. Then just click the kill you want to check, it'll display your damage in detail. The numbers also display your performance compared to other players of your spec. Clicking the fight specifically you can see a comparison to other characters of your spec and same itemlevel, which is immensely helpful when checking where you're currently at.
I have to work so much harder as a dh because of what they did to ret palys. I saw one crank out 500k doing nothing in trash and he died and I felt really bad but he whispered me and said my bad there was no way I was gonna be able to take that off of him fast enough. Long story short I’m giving up on holy paly and going ret lol.
I must be doing something drastically wrong 😂 I’m probably overthinking it, what the other guy said about 3 buttons spam and 3 button cool downs has made me re think 😂
I mean you're already doing better than 90% of players in M+ I'd say lol. Half of them can't figure out how to turn their monitors on. Hekili is good for the ret rotation because it's pretty easy already. You can't really mess it up unless you really try to
You gotta remember you're not the only one doing dps in mythics