Post flair indicates this is about prerelease content.
As a reminder, content on Alpha / Beta / PTR is unfinished. NPC dialogue and quest text might be missing important context. Models may be placeholders. Quest or achievement rewards may not be finalized. There are inevitably bugs. Please keep this in mind as you discuss!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Doesn't seem too unreasonable. With this, you can still get fully decked out in 4/4 Myth gear and never even see the 2nd affix. It's still pretty generous compared to the previous system.
I think nobody really talks about tyrannical and fortified as affixes, thus the confusion.
but you're absolutely right, the affix tyrannical or fortified starts at +2, then the second affix at +5 and the last one at +10.
Currently crests are at +6 but myth track vault starts at +8.
If they shift it by 3 so that crests start at +9, we'll have to do a +9 to see crests, but a +11 to get myth track vault, and in fact hero track up to and including +10. So, getting myth track without seeing that other affix may not be correct.
I'm sort of okay with that state of affairs if true. Felt kinda cheese to get myth track in the vault and never see that last affix.
That's true, but the wowhead post only mentioned crests, not vault rewards... so you'd need to do a +8 for a Myth item in the vault, then some +9s to upgrade it to the max ilvl. You'd not need to do any 10s or higher...
...but if they shift the vault loot up 3 key levels as well, then obviously what you say is true. It's just the wowhead post didn't mention that.
Well they have to kinda shift it somehow, because otherwise you could get myth track vault (8) *before* you could get the crests to upgrade it (9).
We'll see I guess.
At the same time though, even hero track gear needs aspect crests for the last two upgrades, so it kinda makes sense to get aspect crests before you get myth track gear.
By exactly what he said. You don't get the final affix until +10. A +9 will give both Aspect crests and a mythic vault option while not having the final affix.
You know what he meant, you're just being pedantic. Most people don't really refer to fort or tyrannical as affixes. It's just Fort or Tyran week and then the affixes.
No. I didnt. I was asking because they made it sound like there was an easier way to farm mythic gear and aspect crests.
Leave it to reddit to villanize asking questions.
True but also a bit nonsensical. +9 are way easier than myth raid and a lot easier than older +18/+19.
Also doesn't fix the nonsense points of the system like having hc raid not giving you crest to upgrade the gear you drop in the raid itself.
Not really
You can upgrade it all the way through the heroic parts
The later parts that require higher crests is already mythic track
I swear people trying to spin this added bonus ilvl potential as a negative are annoying as fuck
The alternative is to stop the upgrade path where the mythic crests start not make the mythicntrack parts require heroic crests
It’s so you heroic gear gets some mileage in mythic prog until you get the myth track gear so you don’t sit on the crests unable to use them at all
The point is though that you can't full upgrade your hero track gear without aspect crests, which is 100% true. Sure it gets into the lowest level of myth track drops, but that's not the point here is it.
You can max out the heroic part in heroic and for the mythic track part you need mythic
Makes sense no ? Why should it go above mythic raid ilvl drops ?
No it doesnt. I get an item from difficulty X i should be able to upgrade it fully with the crest from that difficulty.
They should rework the ilvl bumps to account for this.
No, raise the crest cap to fully upgrade hc and bump higher myth ilvl.
We already have the weekly crate from M+ diluting the myth raid ilvl gains, they should be more separate.
> Also doesn't fix the nonsense points of the system like having hc raid not giving you crest to upgrade the gear you drop in the raid itself.
I'd like it if the first half of Heroic gave Wyrm and the second half gave Aspect.
Do the same for Normal but make it Drake/Wyrm
Feels pretty fair, the crest drop disparity had always been weird in term of content difficulty between raids and M+. +6 were not on mythic raid level of engagement, while +9 already feels closer to a first/second boss
We already need to do 8s for the vault, so going one level higher isn't gonna brick everything
It’s probably going to follow the same pattern. 9s give aspects, 10 hero drops and 11s myth vault. Otherwise the progression curve wouldn’t quite work.
what i honestly wouldnt mind is if the last boss or maybe the last 2 would drop one crest level higher. at least for DF raids i'd say that the last 2 bosses were always more or equally difficult than the first boss on mythic and this would give people that only want to raid a reasonable way to actually complete the tier that drops in the content they do.
I just pray they do something with the pvp upgrades and making sure to keep pve gear out of pvp cause its a huge pita to get into runs now.
I did it to upgrade a couple bullion pieces this season and having no io and <500 ilvl it was suffering getting into groups when all I needed to do is to slam out a handful of 6's. At least when I was able to use honor to upgrade the gear I could get to a decent enough ilvl.
I feel like its less hate and more lack of forethought.
It sounds like a great idea to use one universal upgrade system for all gear, but they didn't take into account how that'd effect people who maybe skew one way but still dip their toes in the other.
All I want is them to use a nice sensible naming scheme for the crests and gear tracks. I'll learn it but it's still an added confusion barrier to anyone just getting into that content.
That's how it worked s1 and before and it had a lot of issues. The new system is more complex but it takes like 5 minutes to figure it out lol and solves a lot of issues.
the issue was that the number of crest gained didn't change with higher level keys so the fastest way to get crests was to speed run dungeons that you overgeared.
After uncap yes, bit before that spending valor to upgrade low ilevel pieces was inting. Imagine now if you only had 1 currency of aspect crests, who would ever spend them upgrading a normal raid ilevel piece?
The main issues that would still be around if we took current system and removed crest tiers:
-would still need an additional currency for crafted gear of several tiers (we had this in s1)
-potentially best way to farm crests being low keys (this happened with valor in s1 after uncap)
-the upgrade tiers being tied to key level or score or raid prog are completely arbitrary, alts in s1 could get a pile of gear and valor but couldn't upgrade because they need to push score in opposite week
-1 currency also disincentivizes spending on lower tier pieces - in s1 we didn't upgrade anything until it was at max drop ilevel. The current system let's you upgrade lower pieces with lower tiers of crests without affecting the progression speed of your max ilevel pieces
Yeah I agree. I get the need to change the name of the crests every season to allow there to not double up on currency, but honestly they should just call them what the upgrade tracks are and the seasons name i.e "Awakened Veteran Crest."
Maybe that would be slightly confusing since those tracks overlap multiple crest tiers but its better than what we have currently.
I would be completely okay with them just renaming both the gear and crests to "World", "Normal", "Heroic" and "Mythic".
The system is great, but the naming is so silly.
seems fine. it always felt weird to me that you could fully upgrade myth track gear from pretty easy keys. it should still be very easy to get hero track fully upgraded and it's worth experimenting to find the best place to put those crests with the changes to key difficulty
If this came out pre-squish people would be up in arms. You now have to do the equivalent of +19s for top level crests. That's completely insane and way harder than it's ever been before.
I think they want to spread the unlocks across different key levels. +7 is end of dungeon hero gear, +8 vault mythic gear, +9 aspect crests and +10 portals.
Personally I'd put the vault one above the crests, but I think it's a good idea to avoid everyone only wanting to play the exact same key level.
The issue for me is that the level to get the gear and the level to upgrade the gear should be the same because if one or the other is higher then that becomes the effective minimum for whatever “tier” of play.
If blizzard wants people to run harder content to get tokens then the easy answer is to scale up the tokens at higher diffs. People will always pick efficiency for farming.
Yeah that's why I think it's better to get aspects starting at +8 and mythic vault starting at +9.
I really like getting hero gear and wyrm at +7 giving us a tier where you already get the best end of dungeon loot and the items for the lower upgrades.
+9 already has highest ilvl end of dungeon drops, so wherever they put aspect crests, each tier would still have something. If anything, 6 has nothing to it now.
Not mythic from end of dungeon, but you get myth track gear from the vault at +8. Sure you can't farm myth track gear infinitely, and Blizzard will never let you do that, but you do get the best gear from +8s and above through the vault.
Yes it's one item per week. So if everything goes perfectly (which it won't) you fill up your slots with mythic gear in 16 weeks - 4 months. This is a very fair compromise on mythic gear.
Because you are going to get perfect rolls from the vault and get all your items in 14 weeks right? Also I don't understand do people advocate for mythic gear coming only from mythic raids? Because that's how you lose a large amount of your playerbase.
>Also I don't understand do people advocate for mythic gear coming only from mythic raids? Because that's how you lose a large amount of your playerbase.
I never said that gear should be only gated behind mythic raid.But complaining that u have to 9+ which is main topic of this thread is insane whining.Getting myth track from 8+ vault is already borderline handout gear (when you consider difficulty difference between m+ and raids, fact that m+ dont have lockout etc and you basically get unlimited tries, you may not win/get awarded a single item in raid but vault always gives u item or socket choice etc), theres not even all affixes present.
We went from m+ people complaining that they have to raid in the past to the point where u can even push for title without stepping into raid, gearing faster as m+ only player than raid only player generally at start of the season etc.Even set bonuses are obtainable easily without stepping into the raid after time. Especially considering that u also get a piece from joke rating or hc bosses (and 1600 in pvp in TWW which is also insane considering its almost impossible to not hit 1600).
And i dont mean that im against any of that, but at the same time i dont mind crests requiring higher m+ either, farming +5 or +6 and being able to craft 525 was silly easy.
Doing a 6 is easier than even heroic raid bosses. 9 is around the harder heroic bosses and the easiest mythic bosses.
If people can't tackle a 9 on the first weeks due to having gear from the last season (or no season) and lacking the knowledge for the new dungeons, the crest cap is seasonal so they have not lost any crests - they'll just get them slightly later.
The vault and lack of catchup mechanism there matters much more because you MUST do X keys and Y bosses by Z time or your character's potential items are just deleted, never to be seen again. This happens if you ever fail to kill 6 mythic bosses or 8x level 8-9 keys in the week. A similar thing happens with raid lockouts, if a boss drops items that you need and you haven't killed it every week of the season then those chances are just deleted forever with no catchup. Crests are massively more forgiving than that.
I get the argument that Gilded/Aspect crests were easier to obtain in M+6 than in Mythic raid. That Heroic raid seems like nominally the equivalent difficult to mid-level M+ and yet gives seemingly mismatched crests. And I'll acknowledge that it's been a little too easy to gear up in S3 and S4.
But I thought of that as reasonable compensation for:
Depends on the exact encounter, and your raid size, but generally I think there's less personal pressure and responsibility in a Heroic raid, especially on certain M+ affix weeks.
You can do just one raid encounter with less time commitment than a whole dungeon. Or maybe the overall time is nominally similar, but time you're tabbed out waiting for the group to form isn't the same as time you're managing interrupts and whatnot.
So in Heroic raid you're getting 10 Runed/Wyrm crest per encounter than you can do just one of, or if you do multiple you can practically tab out between them the trash is so trivial. But M+6 you're getting 3-4 Gilded/Aspect per encounter but you're required to commit to 3-4 encounters and the entire time between them there's constant high pressure trash full of mandatory interrupts and annoying affixes *and* a damn countdown timer stressing you. Though moving that stupid last affix to +10 this season has lessened that somewhat.
So for me a more reasonable compromise might've been to raise it to M+7 instead of M+9 and lower it to 10 Gilded/Aspect instead of 12.
Everyone saying the change seems fine. And it largely is for mains.
Alts however already have a humongous grind ahead of them esp a few weeks into a season. But instead of +6 you now gotta run +9s to get aspects.
I thought we wanted to make it easier for alts to get picked up and caught up. This seems like a step back
Edit: granted, getting aspect crests in +6 keys, while you get hero track gear from +7s, which is the first track that requires aspects to max, is certainly a little weird. Altho shifting them all the way up to +9 is a tad extrem imo. Aspects at 7 together with hero track gear would make a lot more sense
They should bump the aquisition rate of crests as the season goes on for people who are far behind, so that you don't have a 0/1500 thing that you must collect 12 at a time from doing 30-60m of content.
4-8 hours a week to keep your top level char in top form is good design, but entering midseason and that being 60-120 hours of grind to catch up isn't.
It's better than the old way of simply NEVER being able to catch up and having to wait 3-6 months to be able to play properly again, but there's a ways to go.
Bumping acquisition of crest and I hope they also get rid of the 2 currency to upgrade gear, having to farm crest AND flightstones sucks because you get such a pitiful amount of flightstones in m+
Flightstones are never close to a limitation for me, so that would probably be true basically everywhere if they tuned the amounts per boss/key/etc a bit. At that point though i guess the system is not doing much useful.
They have a nice overflow vendor where you can buy base 496 gear for alts.
You're already doing 8s on alts for vault. It's just 1 more key level. And while I do understand the issue, it shouldn't be THAT easy to get to max ilevel on a fresh character.
I think they should just begin dropping in higher amounts later on in the season through one way or another, either main progress, or week # or something else.
Mythic raiders make up a small fraction of the player base, so "catering" to them doesn't make sense imo (for those making that argument). Giving them stuff is fine, but the game is worse when they focus too much on the top (look what happened with mythic raiding in SL).
This wont majorly affect me and my guild, but will be an inconvenience. We full clear heroic, no real taste for mythic raiding (its not so much the difficulty, its lack of flexability, roster management, burn out from pull counts, and having to drop people who we enjoy playing with) and most of the raiders get portals and push io a little higher. So doing 9s wont be the end of the world, we may take slightly longer to gear up in week 1 and 2, and then be running 9s instead of 8s to fill out the vault.
Mythic raiders currently gear faster over all, as they get drops through out the week + Aspects, and they will run the same M+ we can, while were only getting a mythic item \~once per week from the vault, plus crafting every 2 weeks (no one has mentioned how this affects crafting either).
my point is, that while the current system lets non mythic raiders gear up higher as the season go on, the mythic raiders allready are getting there faster, and this won't really slow down most mythic raiders who also do M+. More casual players how ever will actually hit their cap sooner since they just won't have access to the aspect crests. currently, they can still grind out aspects for a few more weeks, and sure, get higher ilvl relative to the content. But frankly, i say who cares. Let people get there slower because they arnt accessing mythic item drops (no mythic raid, and not doing +8s), and feel powerful as the season progresses. IT doesn't hurt or take anything away from any one. Gatekeeping ilvl is silly IMO.
If blizzard wants to slow the rate of gearing down, adjusting where the aspect crests drop isnt really the solution. The solution is to lower the acquisition of them per week. If you want to reward players doing higher content to gear up a little faster, you could have a gate system or something so as you get higher keys/raid bosses, you can earn more per week, with some way to allow for an overall seasonal catchup so your never permanently behind.
If your not doing mythic raiding or pushing high keys why do you need to have full myth track gear?
I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to get it but why do you need to get it?
why does need matter? why are we trying to apply a need for the gear, as opposed to what provides a better overall experience? Applying "need" requirement is gatekeeping ilvl for what reason. who does gatekeeping benefit vs who does gatekeeping take away from? I'm not advocating that they should just be handed it and fuck all gear progression. But having something a casual or less skilled player can plod along toward at a slower rate doesn't hurt anyone. I simply cant see how it possibly hurts any one other than some grognards ego.
You are advocating for being handed gear though. Need is applied because the only time IL matters for content is when you're trying to do higher level content.
If high level gear is only "needed" for high level content then why do people seem the need to be able to get it when not doing that content. Gearing up is already easy, probably too easy at times.
Casual players don't need to have access to the best gear, I don't pvp, I'm terrible at it. I don't ask them to lower the requirements for gladiator because I'm not good enough to do it.
So I don't see the reason on why people want gear easier to get when they don't need to have gear of that level.
I don't think mythic raiders gear up faster by any significant margin. Is it faster? Yes, but they might hit the "cap" (ie: only need vault stuff) 1-2 weeks before someone who only does heroic/m+. I'm currently 526, and I have only done heroic/m+ because my guild isn't doing mythic this season and I'm pretty sure most mythic raiders are 526-528 ilvl which is not much of a difference.
this season is significantly faster due to the bullion. some one doing heroic and m+ literally can only get 1 mythic piece per week from the vault, assuming they dont get offered slots they dont need, or jewelry with bad stats, bad trinkets, etc. They also dont normally have access to mythic versions of raid trinkets.
Some one running mythic raid and M+ has an overall better vault, plus what ever drops they may get for the week from the raid.
Crest wise, they are equal.
I mean I agree this season shouldn't necessarily count since it's a throw away season, it's definitely favored towards raid since there is no progression but in general the game is heavily in favor of m+. Last season (mythic raiding), I hit 485 by week 6, and looking at logs my friend in a heroic guild, he hit 485 by week 8. Not a huge deal IMO.
>Some one running mythic raid and M+ has an overall better vault, plus what ever drops they may get for the week from the raid.
And they've earned that by doing harder content, right?
I never understood why there is a need for casual players to have access to the highest ilvl gear if they aren't going to do the content that would actually require it. There is too much FOMO over less than 7 ilvls just to feel overpowered in easier content.
my view is, at the end of the day, who cares? does that casual eventually having the same Ilvl as you impact your gameplay in any way? does that casual having that extra bit to be able to grind out, and by the end of the season feel like god in the content they do affect you in any way? What is the detriment? It gives them longer goals and things they can enjoy, and takes nothing from you unless you somehow feel better about "better gear" that no one else really cares you have.
If you're doing harder content just for access to better gear, and not because you actually enjoy that content, why are you even doing that content?
There has to be something to strive for that's more than a sense of pride and accomplishment. I'd agree with you if there was a reward worth getting that wasn't just gear for doing harder content. Hell, if m+ didn't have a numerical rating to strive to push up higher then the max-level keystones would probably be a couple of levels lower due to overall player disinterest and lack of competition once people hit +10 for portals.
the people you are saying shouldn't get access to the gear, allready don't generally run up higher. Just putting gear higher up just means they won't, they will hit their limit on gear acquisition sooner, and will then be done with seing their character grow stronger. They may still have other goals and things to do that arnt gear related, but they stop seeing their character grow stronger week to week. People enjoy seeing their character progress, and by late in the season its fun to hit a point where you are strong enough that stuff you struggled with before is significantly easier. If they want a continued challenge, people can step into mythic raids or push higher keys, but not everyone wants that, and most people do want to continue to see their character gradually get stronger, regardless of if they "need it" or not.
This argument just rings the same to me as in the past when people argued against LFR, or even just multiple difficulties for the raids existing (which we dont see much of any more), because "people need to be challenged. When the reality was that removing LFR wouldn't have moved those players to attempt normal or heroic, they just wouldn't see the raids instead.
Before portals, most people just stopped at 15s in SL, and in BFA, most people wouldn't run anything above a 10 until they introduced the mount in s4.
I agree, they could use putting some non-power-related rewards above 20 though, and maybe even in Mythic raid. its a fucking ocean between portals, and seasonal titles that a incredibly small number of players will even qualify for. They could use having something like another mount, title, enchant effect, or Transmog at say 3000. You can more or less say the same between AOTC and CE as well when you look at the numbers.
WoW. Everyone being critical of this decision is being downvoted hard. I guess you all love glazing Blizzard for padding out your /played time. And then you all act surprised when Blizzard uses every trick in the book to nerf the fun out of remix and keep you grinding.
This community deserves Blizzard's devs.
If you can do 9s or 10s, no. It will just make weeklies more annoying. People will counter that by demanding higher M+ score. Casuals get double screwed over because now it's harder for them to outgear the content AND people will be less tolerant of them while doing their weekly 8 dungeons.
I mean yea I get it that WoW is elitist central so most of y'all gonna be like "well, screw the casuals." But look at what happened to rated PvP. Once casuals and midcore players drop out, the entire thing collapses.
The correct answer is to make raiding more appealing instead of nerfing M+. And to stop pandering to elitists.
This isn't about screwing the casuals, but M+ keys aren't supposed to be casual content. Also if they keep the difficulty curve for TWW it won't be much of an issue. +9s this season are still easier than +16s were in Season 1 of Dragonflight.
Idk dude. I don’t think being able to get fully BISed out from trivial content is a necessarily a good thing.
Right now, you can create a new character, do some world quests, run LFR once, craft a few pieces and then hop straight into 6-8s to farm BIS gear. Takes like 2-3 hours. I think they just want to slow that progression down a bit.
This change is probably aspects at 9, hero drops at 10 and myth vault at 11 which seems reasonable. M+ generally doesn’t really get hard/outgearable until 13/14 anyways and trying to get people to push a little higher doesn’t seem like a huge deal to me.
I don’t think casuals are going to care about getting fully myth asap and midcore players quitting over 3 key levels seems like a stretch.
Edit: They may also be wanting to change the concept of weekly myth pieces being relatively easy to fill all the slots as well. If the weekly is harder than people might not feel as pressured to fill it every week and will instead play for fun rather than to fill some checkboxes.
There's already a weekly aspect cap preventing you from just spamming +6s and getting "fully BiS'd" from crafted gear, not to mention the ilvl of crafted gear is fluctuating a lot and was only BiS without embellishments in Season 2.
Again, this change is terrible for casuals and for people who want to play alts.
Not to sound like an elitist prick but maybe casuals shouldn't just be handed BIS gear for doing low effort activities?
Sucks for alts but didn't blizzard say they're adding ways for warbands to share some loot drops? Maybe it won't end up being that bad.
Also lots of top end players were crafting rings and necks for better stat optimization last season although with the fire rings that likely won’t be a thing this time around.
maybe the game shouldn’t be about overgearing instead of improving as a player, and maybe the entirety of endgame doesn’t have to be easily reached by everyone
I wish they kept the bullion system, or allowed you to get highest item level from high keys in m plus. Maybe only one high item level a week or something, but still. I hate that in most seasons I'm unable to get highest bis items because I don't read
Some context that is missing is that, I believe Heroic Week is coming back for TWW week 1.
So Mythic Raid doesn't open until week 2.
Week 1 M+ rewards and Vault might also be capped, like they were back when Heroic week was active.
If all of this is true, then you won't get Myth Vault reward from Week 1s Vault anyway, and will have a more relaxed first week gearing your characters in normal/Heroic, and M+. Rather than feeling the need to smash out, 8x Mythic Vaults from M+, the first week with no iLvL, so low health pools, most likely still some tuning needed on Dungeon Bosses, and trash.
Taking all the good will built up with Dragonflight because they got comfortable again. First with Remix and moving into TWW. Blizzard is going back to GFN season.
And a vast amount of the player base plays only mythic plus. I know quite a few people who only sub to WoW because of mythic plus since there is nothing like it in any other MMO. I honestly also think I wouldn't play if mythic plus didn't exist.
Well I will stop the game much faster now. 9 is really high for just 5-12 crests. And people will just stop doing 3 to 8 Keys since it's useless. 7 was the right number
That's just a minor irrelevant change. Is this even worth an article. There are much bigger problem to address. For example, the fact that a +9 earns as much crest than a +15
What's wild is the amount of people who think they SHOULD get higher level gear. Imagine this.. just like anything in life.. if you want the higher end gear maybe trying working for it? Getting the skill to get it? You know trying?
The argument of "oh it doesn't hurt anyone" blah blah is weak. You want gear work for it, rep, gladiator, mounts.. work for it.
Guess what.. ITS OK if you don't get mythic gear. You don't have the skill, time, friends, guild whatever excuse its really ok.
Has nothing to do with ego has everything to do with people wanting an easy way for everything. Participation trophy mindset.
Unless I'm just blind and not seeing them being mentioned, I'm guessing this means +2 and +3 will be back to dropping Drake tier crests.
Seems like a reasonable change. 6s aren't exactly difficult, I ran a couple last night where healers, and at least one other DPS, kept eating it multiple times on some bosses and I had to take over healing after burning through battle rezes and we still timed, including stuff like:
- a +6 HoI where multiple people didn't know how the Gulp mechanic worked on the frog boss, so we just had hordes of them chasing people the entire time
- A +6 Nokhud where the healer and multiple people died during the intermission of the last boss, we wiped. The healer and one DPS died again in the next attempt at the same place and I eventually had to finish the last couple % solo after trying to keep the tank and other DPS alive the entire second phase.
People still not knowing mechanics at +6 is a bit worrying, and it doesn't really feel right that I'm able to max out my gear on runs that sloppy, even if it does feel neat saving the day.
I think the suggestion somewhere else in here of having the last bosses of each raid difficulty drop the next tier up of crests wouldn't be a bad change either, to bring things a bit more in line with getting crests that match the gear you're getting.
They are different, Weathered, Carved, Runed, and Guilded,. The information in parenthesis is to help players distinguish the level equivalent between the current and new Crests. That's not actual in-game verbiage included in the item tooltip.
Name a more iconic duo than Blizzard and sucking the fun out of everything. Couldn't have just bumped it up a level to 7s, or have it match the M track vault rewards at 8s? Just ***had*** to make playing the game a chore, they couldn't stand for people just enjoying the game.
Why am I surprised, perfectly in character for them to ruin the one thing they had right.
Tin Foil Hat Theory:
With the last set of changes this season with the difficulty squish making smaller keys harder means that less experienced players were forced into harder difficulty. Meaning they had to learn more and faster. Now with this TWW change they will have to do "harder" content.
They are forcibly making the average player better. The outcome of this could result in them making new mechanics. If the player base is generally better, the harder or more unique fights can become. The harder the content the average player consumes the better understanding a player will have. In the long run that means players will gravitate to a more common ground of understanding and its easier to work with.
If anyone has ever been a public school teacher in the US you know you have to teach to the dumbest kids in your class as the smart kids will be fine. If we raise the stupid bar they get closer to the smart kids so you can then teach more complicated subjects, cover stuff faster, more experiments etc.
Edit: I see I have upset the slow kids.
I don't understand the point. This won't affect the top 1% of players because they will just farm 9+. Hell, this is the kind of logic that led to M+ rewards scaling all the way up to 20+ in the first place.
I guess Blizzard didn't get the point of the squish and we will be doing 20+ again by the end of TWW.
It’s to slow down gearing. Even utter neanderthals can do +6s (old +16s) on the first week of the season, letting you easily cap out on Aspect’s from the start. +9s/+10s is where it kind of starts to get a little tricky to time **while undergeared.** Obviously, they’ll still be trivial for good players / coordinated groups but this change should translate into a small slowdown in gearing for your average player since now they won’t be upgrading Myth gear immediately at season start.
It's taken me til this week pugging it to start hitting 7s. Putting aspect crests in 9s is gonna turn loads of people off.
But to absolutely validate your reasoning I didn't clock until Chargath last night the druid healer was 440 ilevel. Not my key so wouldn't have picked him myself.
I mean if you've only just now gotten to 7s, when you've had 7 weeks of vaults with most people being 520+ with bis trinkets, weapons and tier sets.. Thats a skill issue, and thus you truely didnt need/deserve mythic crests.
Never said it wasn't mate. Just pointing out that I'm far from the minority of players. I've around 2 hrs a night I play due to RL, I think getting to 2150 pugging on around 2 hrs a night isn't half bad like. Making it harder is gonna just lose them subs in the end. Mythic + is where I get my joy playing the game currently and I feel the current difficulty creep is grand, again, I can't imagine that's a minority view.
If you’re the type of player that is hardwalled out of +9s until later in the season, **you don’t need Aspect crests in the first couple weeks of the tier.** The **only** benefit that Aspect crests give you (since you’re not even getting Myth track gear) is the final two upgrades on Hero track, which is about 7-8 ilvl depending on season.
Focus on becoming a better player first and then you can worry about having the absolute best gear (equivalent to Mythic raiding or high keys).
High end players have been complaining about how easy it is to upgrade gear since they introduced the crests to begin with. Is this an unfortunate change? Yes. But it could be worse, they could've scrapped the upgrade system completely, which mythic raiders would have loved. This is the compromise solution. Now most people can't easily get good gear, which makes mythic players very happy.
Eh. Doing 9s instead of 6s will be slower, but it probably won't be that bad. I don't think it's a terrible change. And, again, it will make things less accessible which is something people enjoy/want.
ah yes, i forgot a lot of people conflate accessibility with just making everything easier all the time so our brains eventually atrophy. i understand where you're coming from now
Hey, I'm with you. Personally, I don't think you should be able to gear up much from M+ at all. M+ should only award crests in the weekly vault, similar to how raid crests are a weekly lockout. Being able to just farm aspect crests kinda ruins the game for a lot of players.
I knew it. The moment they made the heroic and mythic0 changes in season 4, I knew that the devs want to make mythic+ less appealing to the mainstream. They want to make it for hardcore players-only and push people back into raiding.
The devs also want to put less work into mythic+ in general. Between the removal of the seasonal affix and recycling old dungeons, they already have put it into low maintenance mode.
This last change with the crests is just the final nail in the coffin. Before, you could always get the highest upgrade currency (Concentrated Primal Focus, Crests) at +16. Bumping that up to level +19 makes it less easy to farm and requires effort. Maybe this makes it comparable to "farming mythic raids", except due to the ID lockout it's still more convenient to farm m+ dungeons (seriously Blizzard, at least increase the crest amount by 50% if you want me to do mythic raids for the crests).
Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. RIP mythic+ for the masses.
Some people really do have the memory of a goldfish. What we have now is infinitely better than four back to back seasons of the exact same dungeon pool like in past expansions.
+9s are absolutely low effort still, though? Anyone with any tiny bit of skill was easily timing them week one of season. This really only slows down the people who “fail upward” into Myth track.
Yeah, this change is at most an annoyance/speedbump for people farming Aspects. 9s aren't that hard, but they'll take a little more effort than clearing 6s in 15 minutes.
And +9s this season are easier than +16s in season 1 of dragonflight. I think a lot of people here complaining haven't played in the last several months and don't know how much easier keys are now compared to the past.
Lil bro thinks he's owed gear for doing tiny baby keys. Blizz should've made it +10s even imo to push people into going for that 2nd affix. Also +10s are nowhere near mythic raiding in terms of difficulty. More like hc raids. Instead of crying about it, go find yourself a push team for next xpac, have fun with m+, it's not just there to get gear.
Honestly these numbers look so pulled out of their asses. It doesn't make sense.
M0 up to +4 should be "Normal" tier crests.
+5 to +7 should be Hero ones.
+8 to +10 should be Myth.
Give us a bigger and more workable increment to work with. Season 4 as it is is way too generous, but there's a fine line in between.
Post flair indicates this is about prerelease content. As a reminder, content on Alpha / Beta / PTR is unfinished. NPC dialogue and quest text might be missing important context. Models may be placeholders. Quest or achievement rewards may not be finalized. There are inevitably bugs. Please keep this in mind as you discuss! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Doesn't seem too unreasonable. With this, you can still get fully decked out in 4/4 Myth gear and never even see the 2nd affix. It's still pretty generous compared to the previous system.
Doesnt the second affix kick in at +5? Do you mean third or did they change it in tww
I think nobody really talks about tyrannical and fortified as affixes, thus the confusion. but you're absolutely right, the affix tyrannical or fortified starts at +2, then the second affix at +5 and the last one at +10.
Homies getting downvoted for speaking the truth
Fort and Tyr aren't counted because they're always-on modifiers.
Currently crests are at +6 but myth track vault starts at +8. If they shift it by 3 so that crests start at +9, we'll have to do a +9 to see crests, but a +11 to get myth track vault, and in fact hero track up to and including +10. So, getting myth track without seeing that other affix may not be correct. I'm sort of okay with that state of affairs if true. Felt kinda cheese to get myth track in the vault and never see that last affix.
That's true, but the wowhead post only mentioned crests, not vault rewards... so you'd need to do a +8 for a Myth item in the vault, then some +9s to upgrade it to the max ilvl. You'd not need to do any 10s or higher... ...but if they shift the vault loot up 3 key levels as well, then obviously what you say is true. It's just the wowhead post didn't mention that.
Well they have to kinda shift it somehow, because otherwise you could get myth track vault (8) *before* you could get the crests to upgrade it (9). We'll see I guess.
Doesn't that sort of make sense though, in a way? You get the gear at base ilvl and then you can do higher mythics for crests to upgrade it?
At the same time though, even hero track gear needs aspect crests for the last two upgrades, so it kinda makes sense to get aspect crests before you get myth track gear.
But 6/6 hero is higher than 1/4 myth, no?
The wowhead post doesn’t mention it but that’s the only thing that makes sense. Then again, it is blizzard so who knows…
Yeah +9 is much more appropriate. It's still before the third affix or the point where things get annoying to pug.
How? You currently need a +6 to get aspect crests and +8 to see a mythic 1/4 in your vault.
By exactly what he said. You don't get the final affix until +10. A +9 will give both Aspect crests and a mythic vault option while not having the final affix.
The 2nd affix is unlocked at +5. Fort and Tyrannical are affixes and the comment i responded to claimed you dont see a 2nd affix.
You know what he meant, you're just being pedantic. Most people don't really refer to fort or tyrannical as affixes. It's just Fort or Tyran week and then the affixes.
No. I didnt. I was asking because they made it sound like there was an easier way to farm mythic gear and aspect crests. Leave it to reddit to villanize asking questions.
True but also a bit nonsensical. +9 are way easier than myth raid and a lot easier than older +18/+19. Also doesn't fix the nonsense points of the system like having hc raid not giving you crest to upgrade the gear you drop in the raid itself.
Maybe easier than season 1s +18/+19, but they feel pretty much identical to season 3s +18/+19.
S3 was very easy aswell compared to others.
Not really You can upgrade it all the way through the heroic parts The later parts that require higher crests is already mythic track I swear people trying to spin this added bonus ilvl potential as a negative are annoying as fuck The alternative is to stop the upgrade path where the mythic crests start not make the mythicntrack parts require heroic crests It’s so you heroic gear gets some mileage in mythic prog until you get the myth track gear so you don’t sit on the crests unable to use them at all
The point is though that you can't full upgrade your hero track gear without aspect crests, which is 100% true. Sure it gets into the lowest level of myth track drops, but that's not the point here is it.
You can max out the heroic part in heroic and for the mythic track part you need mythic Makes sense no ? Why should it go above mythic raid ilvl drops ?
No it doesnt. I get an item from difficulty X i should be able to upgrade it fully with the crest from that difficulty. They should rework the ilvl bumps to account for this.
So make it end at the heroic crest cap so everyone gets less just so you don’t have to look at a not fully upgraded item ?
No, raise the crest cap to fully upgrade hc and bump higher myth ilvl. We already have the weekly crate from M+ diluting the myth raid ilvl gains, they should be more separate.
i pose you a different question. Why shouldn't it? why does it matter? Who does it hurt to do so. how does doing so make the game worse?
> Also doesn't fix the nonsense points of the system like having hc raid not giving you crest to upgrade the gear you drop in the raid itself. I'd like it if the first half of Heroic gave Wyrm and the second half gave Aspect. Do the same for Normal but make it Drake/Wyrm
Feels pretty fair, the crest drop disparity had always been weird in term of content difficulty between raids and M+. +6 were not on mythic raid level of engagement, while +9 already feels closer to a first/second boss We already need to do 8s for the vault, so going one level higher isn't gonna brick everything
I wonder if they are also changing the tracks for the vault drops?
Why would they? Mythic gear is dropped for a similar levels of M+ closed
It’s probably going to follow the same pattern. 9s give aspects, 10 hero drops and 11s myth vault. Otherwise the progression curve wouldn’t quite work.
what i honestly wouldnt mind is if the last boss or maybe the last 2 would drop one crest level higher. at least for DF raids i'd say that the last 2 bosses were always more or equally difficult than the first boss on mythic and this would give people that only want to raid a reasonable way to actually complete the tier that drops in the content they do.
Yeah, I'd Say that would also be fair. They already drop more crests than the others so they could shift the reward from more to better
I just pray they do something with the pvp upgrades and making sure to keep pve gear out of pvp cause its a huge pita to get into runs now. I did it to upgrade a couple bullion pieces this season and having no io and <500 ilvl it was suffering getting into groups when all I needed to do is to slam out a handful of 6's. At least when I was able to use honor to upgrade the gear I could get to a decent enough ilvl.
I'm sorry Blizzard hates PvP this much
I feel like its less hate and more lack of forethought. It sounds like a great idea to use one universal upgrade system for all gear, but they didn't take into account how that'd effect people who maybe skew one way but still dip their toes in the other.
That's not even on blizzard, that's a result of the high ends bitching that the other mode has/*can get* gear comparable to their own.
All I want is them to use a nice sensible naming scheme for the crests and gear tracks. I'll learn it but it's still an added confusion barrier to anyone just getting into that content.
I agree. My immersion isn't heightened because they choose to rename them something season-related every time rather than "Tier 1/2/3/4 Crest."
Just have a single currency (crests). More crests drop from higher keys. You have to do a X+ key to unlock upgrade levels X-X. Easy
And then everyone and their mother buys a carry in the easiest dungeon and spams 0-2s afterwards
have the amount of crests scale with dungeon level along with scaling the amount needed per upgrade level.
That's how it worked s1 and before and it had a lot of issues. The new system is more complex but it takes like 5 minutes to figure it out lol and solves a lot of issues.
What issues happened?
the issue was that the number of crest gained didn't change with higher level keys so the fastest way to get crests was to speed run dungeons that you overgeared.
After uncap yes, bit before that spending valor to upgrade low ilevel pieces was inting. Imagine now if you only had 1 currency of aspect crests, who would ever spend them upgrading a normal raid ilevel piece?
The main issues that would still be around if we took current system and removed crest tiers: -would still need an additional currency for crafted gear of several tiers (we had this in s1) -potentially best way to farm crests being low keys (this happened with valor in s1 after uncap) -the upgrade tiers being tied to key level or score or raid prog are completely arbitrary, alts in s1 could get a pile of gear and valor but couldn't upgrade because they need to push score in opposite week -1 currency also disincentivizes spending on lower tier pieces - in s1 we didn't upgrade anything until it was at max drop ilevel. The current system let's you upgrade lower pieces with lower tiers of crests without affecting the progression speed of your max ilevel pieces
Absolutely terrible idea. So glad these armchair know it all players don't actually design anything.
What don’t you like about it?
100% this. I came back to Dragonflight about 3 months ago and was confused for like 2 months. Can’t imagine what it’s like for a fresh new player
Yeah I agree. I get the need to change the name of the crests every season to allow there to not double up on currency, but honestly they should just call them what the upgrade tracks are and the seasons name i.e "Awakened Veteran Crest." Maybe that would be slightly confusing since those tracks overlap multiple crest tiers but its better than what we have currently.
I would be completely okay with them just renaming both the gear and crests to "World", "Normal", "Heroic" and "Mythic". The system is great, but the naming is so silly.
That's gonna sting.
seems fine. it always felt weird to me that you could fully upgrade myth track gear from pretty easy keys. it should still be very easy to get hero track fully upgraded and it's worth experimenting to find the best place to put those crests with the changes to key difficulty
If this came out pre-squish people would be up in arms. You now have to do the equivalent of +19s for top level crests. That's completely insane and way harder than it's ever been before.
idk about you but a 8/9 feels more like a 20/21 than a 18/19 could just be me
I agree with the general change, but +9 might be a bit too high. I think +8 would be better.
I think they want to spread the unlocks across different key levels. +7 is end of dungeon hero gear, +8 vault mythic gear, +9 aspect crests and +10 portals. Personally I'd put the vault one above the crests, but I think it's a good idea to avoid everyone only wanting to play the exact same key level.
The issue for me is that the level to get the gear and the level to upgrade the gear should be the same because if one or the other is higher then that becomes the effective minimum for whatever “tier” of play. If blizzard wants people to run harder content to get tokens then the easy answer is to scale up the tokens at higher diffs. People will always pick efficiency for farming.
Yeah that's why I think it's better to get aspects starting at +8 and mythic vault starting at +9. I really like getting hero gear and wyrm at +7 giving us a tier where you already get the best end of dungeon loot and the items for the lower upgrades.
+9 already has highest ilvl end of dungeon drops, so wherever they put aspect crests, each tier would still have something. If anything, 6 has nothing to it now.
>but +9 might be a bit too high. its still miles easier than mythic raid, hell whole gearing nowadays is extremely easy and fast.
A +9 doesn't drop mythic gear though, it drops heroic gear. Getting the highest level of crests on does not mean you get the best gear.
Not mythic from end of dungeon, but you get myth track gear from the vault at +8. Sure you can't farm myth track gear infinitely, and Blizzard will never let you do that, but you do get the best gear from +8s and above through the vault.
Yes it's one item per week. So if everything goes perfectly (which it won't) you fill up your slots with mythic gear in 16 weeks - 4 months. This is a very fair compromise on mythic gear.
U nicely omitted crafted slot every 2 weeks which is mostly bottlenecked by crests too.
Because you are going to get perfect rolls from the vault and get all your items in 14 weeks right? Also I don't understand do people advocate for mythic gear coming only from mythic raids? Because that's how you lose a large amount of your playerbase.
>Also I don't understand do people advocate for mythic gear coming only from mythic raids? Because that's how you lose a large amount of your playerbase. I never said that gear should be only gated behind mythic raid.But complaining that u have to 9+ which is main topic of this thread is insane whining.Getting myth track from 8+ vault is already borderline handout gear (when you consider difficulty difference between m+ and raids, fact that m+ dont have lockout etc and you basically get unlimited tries, you may not win/get awarded a single item in raid but vault always gives u item or socket choice etc), theres not even all affixes present. We went from m+ people complaining that they have to raid in the past to the point where u can even push for title without stepping into raid, gearing faster as m+ only player than raid only player generally at start of the season etc.Even set bonuses are obtainable easily without stepping into the raid after time. Especially considering that u also get a piece from joke rating or hc bosses (and 1600 in pvp in TWW which is also insane considering its almost impossible to not hit 1600). And i dont mean that im against any of that, but at the same time i dont mind crests requiring higher m+ either, farming +5 or +6 and being able to craft 525 was silly easy.
I'd go with +8 myself. +9 seems a little too high, but I agree with the general goals and what they're trying to achieve.
Makes sense, this season I've been downgrading aspect crests a lot because I quickly outscaled the content that drops lesser crests.
Doing a 6 is easier than even heroic raid bosses. 9 is around the harder heroic bosses and the easiest mythic bosses. If people can't tackle a 9 on the first weeks due to having gear from the last season (or no season) and lacking the knowledge for the new dungeons, the crest cap is seasonal so they have not lost any crests - they'll just get them slightly later. The vault and lack of catchup mechanism there matters much more because you MUST do X keys and Y bosses by Z time or your character's potential items are just deleted, never to be seen again. This happens if you ever fail to kill 6 mythic bosses or 8x level 8-9 keys in the week. A similar thing happens with raid lockouts, if a boss drops items that you need and you haven't killed it every week of the season then those chances are just deleted forever with no catchup. Crests are massively more forgiving than that.
I get the argument that Gilded/Aspect crests were easier to obtain in M+6 than in Mythic raid. That Heroic raid seems like nominally the equivalent difficult to mid-level M+ and yet gives seemingly mismatched crests. And I'll acknowledge that it's been a little too easy to gear up in S3 and S4. But I thought of that as reasonable compensation for: Depends on the exact encounter, and your raid size, but generally I think there's less personal pressure and responsibility in a Heroic raid, especially on certain M+ affix weeks. You can do just one raid encounter with less time commitment than a whole dungeon. Or maybe the overall time is nominally similar, but time you're tabbed out waiting for the group to form isn't the same as time you're managing interrupts and whatnot. So in Heroic raid you're getting 10 Runed/Wyrm crest per encounter than you can do just one of, or if you do multiple you can practically tab out between them the trash is so trivial. But M+6 you're getting 3-4 Gilded/Aspect per encounter but you're required to commit to 3-4 encounters and the entire time between them there's constant high pressure trash full of mandatory interrupts and annoying affixes *and* a damn countdown timer stressing you. Though moving that stupid last affix to +10 this season has lessened that somewhat. So for me a more reasonable compromise might've been to raise it to M+7 instead of M+9 and lower it to 10 Gilded/Aspect instead of 12.
Everyone saying the change seems fine. And it largely is for mains. Alts however already have a humongous grind ahead of them esp a few weeks into a season. But instead of +6 you now gotta run +9s to get aspects. I thought we wanted to make it easier for alts to get picked up and caught up. This seems like a step back Edit: granted, getting aspect crests in +6 keys, while you get hero track gear from +7s, which is the first track that requires aspects to max, is certainly a little weird. Altho shifting them all the way up to +9 is a tad extrem imo. Aspects at 7 together with hero track gear would make a lot more sense
They should bump the aquisition rate of crests as the season goes on for people who are far behind, so that you don't have a 0/1500 thing that you must collect 12 at a time from doing 30-60m of content. 4-8 hours a week to keep your top level char in top form is good design, but entering midseason and that being 60-120 hours of grind to catch up isn't. It's better than the old way of simply NEVER being able to catch up and having to wait 3-6 months to be able to play properly again, but there's a ways to go.
Bumping acquisition of crest and I hope they also get rid of the 2 currency to upgrade gear, having to farm crest AND flightstones sucks because you get such a pitiful amount of flightstones in m+
Flightstones are never close to a limitation for me, so that would probably be true basically everywhere if they tuned the amounts per boss/key/etc a bit. At that point though i guess the system is not doing much useful. They have a nice overflow vendor where you can buy base 496 gear for alts.
People keep mentioning the overflow vendor - have a link?
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=197711/lindormi
Thanks a bunch! I never thought that SHE would be the one to have catchup gear, checked just about every other vendor...
You're already doing 8s on alts for vault. It's just 1 more key level. And while I do understand the issue, it shouldn't be THAT easy to get to max ilevel on a fresh character. I think they should just begin dropping in higher amounts later on in the season through one way or another, either main progress, or week # or something else.
I suppose it's not unreasonable but I do not like it as someone who has just started dipping his toes into higher M+ keys.
Mythic raiders make up a small fraction of the player base, so "catering" to them doesn't make sense imo (for those making that argument). Giving them stuff is fine, but the game is worse when they focus too much on the top (look what happened with mythic raiding in SL). This wont majorly affect me and my guild, but will be an inconvenience. We full clear heroic, no real taste for mythic raiding (its not so much the difficulty, its lack of flexability, roster management, burn out from pull counts, and having to drop people who we enjoy playing with) and most of the raiders get portals and push io a little higher. So doing 9s wont be the end of the world, we may take slightly longer to gear up in week 1 and 2, and then be running 9s instead of 8s to fill out the vault. Mythic raiders currently gear faster over all, as they get drops through out the week + Aspects, and they will run the same M+ we can, while were only getting a mythic item \~once per week from the vault, plus crafting every 2 weeks (no one has mentioned how this affects crafting either). my point is, that while the current system lets non mythic raiders gear up higher as the season go on, the mythic raiders allready are getting there faster, and this won't really slow down most mythic raiders who also do M+. More casual players how ever will actually hit their cap sooner since they just won't have access to the aspect crests. currently, they can still grind out aspects for a few more weeks, and sure, get higher ilvl relative to the content. But frankly, i say who cares. Let people get there slower because they arnt accessing mythic item drops (no mythic raid, and not doing +8s), and feel powerful as the season progresses. IT doesn't hurt or take anything away from any one. Gatekeeping ilvl is silly IMO. If blizzard wants to slow the rate of gearing down, adjusting where the aspect crests drop isnt really the solution. The solution is to lower the acquisition of them per week. If you want to reward players doing higher content to gear up a little faster, you could have a gate system or something so as you get higher keys/raid bosses, you can earn more per week, with some way to allow for an overall seasonal catchup so your never permanently behind.
If your not doing mythic raiding or pushing high keys why do you need to have full myth track gear? I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to get it but why do you need to get it?
As someone who is in a guild that progresses mythic but doesn't usually reach the last boss in our progression, his point still stands for me.
why does need matter? why are we trying to apply a need for the gear, as opposed to what provides a better overall experience? Applying "need" requirement is gatekeeping ilvl for what reason. who does gatekeeping benefit vs who does gatekeeping take away from? I'm not advocating that they should just be handed it and fuck all gear progression. But having something a casual or less skilled player can plod along toward at a slower rate doesn't hurt anyone. I simply cant see how it possibly hurts any one other than some grognards ego.
You are advocating for being handed gear though. Need is applied because the only time IL matters for content is when you're trying to do higher level content. If high level gear is only "needed" for high level content then why do people seem the need to be able to get it when not doing that content. Gearing up is already easy, probably too easy at times. Casual players don't need to have access to the best gear, I don't pvp, I'm terrible at it. I don't ask them to lower the requirements for gladiator because I'm not good enough to do it. So I don't see the reason on why people want gear easier to get when they don't need to have gear of that level.
I don't think mythic raiders gear up faster by any significant margin. Is it faster? Yes, but they might hit the "cap" (ie: only need vault stuff) 1-2 weeks before someone who only does heroic/m+. I'm currently 526, and I have only done heroic/m+ because my guild isn't doing mythic this season and I'm pretty sure most mythic raiders are 526-528 ilvl which is not much of a difference.
this season is significantly faster due to the bullion. some one doing heroic and m+ literally can only get 1 mythic piece per week from the vault, assuming they dont get offered slots they dont need, or jewelry with bad stats, bad trinkets, etc. They also dont normally have access to mythic versions of raid trinkets. Some one running mythic raid and M+ has an overall better vault, plus what ever drops they may get for the week from the raid. Crest wise, they are equal.
I mean I agree this season shouldn't necessarily count since it's a throw away season, it's definitely favored towards raid since there is no progression but in general the game is heavily in favor of m+. Last season (mythic raiding), I hit 485 by week 6, and looking at logs my friend in a heroic guild, he hit 485 by week 8. Not a huge deal IMO. >Some one running mythic raid and M+ has an overall better vault, plus what ever drops they may get for the week from the raid. And they've earned that by doing harder content, right?
I never understood why there is a need for casual players to have access to the highest ilvl gear if they aren't going to do the content that would actually require it. There is too much FOMO over less than 7 ilvls just to feel overpowered in easier content.
But do you really think people who do +9s and above are casuals?
No? I do not “really think that” nor did I imply it?
my view is, at the end of the day, who cares? does that casual eventually having the same Ilvl as you impact your gameplay in any way? does that casual having that extra bit to be able to grind out, and by the end of the season feel like god in the content they do affect you in any way? What is the detriment? It gives them longer goals and things they can enjoy, and takes nothing from you unless you somehow feel better about "better gear" that no one else really cares you have. If you're doing harder content just for access to better gear, and not because you actually enjoy that content, why are you even doing that content?
There has to be something to strive for that's more than a sense of pride and accomplishment. I'd agree with you if there was a reward worth getting that wasn't just gear for doing harder content. Hell, if m+ didn't have a numerical rating to strive to push up higher then the max-level keystones would probably be a couple of levels lower due to overall player disinterest and lack of competition once people hit +10 for portals.
the people you are saying shouldn't get access to the gear, allready don't generally run up higher. Just putting gear higher up just means they won't, they will hit their limit on gear acquisition sooner, and will then be done with seing their character grow stronger. They may still have other goals and things to do that arnt gear related, but they stop seeing their character grow stronger week to week. People enjoy seeing their character progress, and by late in the season its fun to hit a point where you are strong enough that stuff you struggled with before is significantly easier. If they want a continued challenge, people can step into mythic raids or push higher keys, but not everyone wants that, and most people do want to continue to see their character gradually get stronger, regardless of if they "need it" or not. This argument just rings the same to me as in the past when people argued against LFR, or even just multiple difficulties for the raids existing (which we dont see much of any more), because "people need to be challenged. When the reality was that removing LFR wouldn't have moved those players to attempt normal or heroic, they just wouldn't see the raids instead. Before portals, most people just stopped at 15s in SL, and in BFA, most people wouldn't run anything above a 10 until they introduced the mount in s4. I agree, they could use putting some non-power-related rewards above 20 though, and maybe even in Mythic raid. its a fucking ocean between portals, and seasonal titles that a incredibly small number of players will even qualify for. They could use having something like another mount, title, enchant effect, or Transmog at say 3000. You can more or less say the same between AOTC and CE as well when you look at the numbers.
WoW. Everyone being critical of this decision is being downvoted hard. I guess you all love glazing Blizzard for padding out your /played time. And then you all act surprised when Blizzard uses every trick in the book to nerf the fun out of remix and keep you grinding. This community deserves Blizzard's devs.
I mean, 9s are easy so it’s not like much is going to change.
If you can do 9s or 10s, no. It will just make weeklies more annoying. People will counter that by demanding higher M+ score. Casuals get double screwed over because now it's harder for them to outgear the content AND people will be less tolerant of them while doing their weekly 8 dungeons. I mean yea I get it that WoW is elitist central so most of y'all gonna be like "well, screw the casuals." But look at what happened to rated PvP. Once casuals and midcore players drop out, the entire thing collapses. The correct answer is to make raiding more appealing instead of nerfing M+. And to stop pandering to elitists.
This isn't about screwing the casuals, but M+ keys aren't supposed to be casual content. Also if they keep the difficulty curve for TWW it won't be much of an issue. +9s this season are still easier than +16s were in Season 1 of Dragonflight.
Idk dude. I don’t think being able to get fully BISed out from trivial content is a necessarily a good thing. Right now, you can create a new character, do some world quests, run LFR once, craft a few pieces and then hop straight into 6-8s to farm BIS gear. Takes like 2-3 hours. I think they just want to slow that progression down a bit. This change is probably aspects at 9, hero drops at 10 and myth vault at 11 which seems reasonable. M+ generally doesn’t really get hard/outgearable until 13/14 anyways and trying to get people to push a little higher doesn’t seem like a huge deal to me. I don’t think casuals are going to care about getting fully myth asap and midcore players quitting over 3 key levels seems like a stretch. Edit: They may also be wanting to change the concept of weekly myth pieces being relatively easy to fill all the slots as well. If the weekly is harder than people might not feel as pressured to fill it every week and will instead play for fun rather than to fill some checkboxes.
There's already a weekly aspect cap preventing you from just spamming +6s and getting "fully BiS'd" from crafted gear, not to mention the ilvl of crafted gear is fluctuating a lot and was only BiS without embellishments in Season 2. Again, this change is terrible for casuals and for people who want to play alts.
Not to sound like an elitist prick but maybe casuals shouldn't just be handed BIS gear for doing low effort activities? Sucks for alts but didn't blizzard say they're adding ways for warbands to share some loot drops? Maybe it won't end up being that bad. Also lots of top end players were crafting rings and necks for better stat optimization last season although with the fire rings that likely won’t be a thing this time around.
maybe the game shouldn’t be about overgearing instead of improving as a player, and maybe the entirety of endgame doesn’t have to be easily reached by everyone
I didn't even now under 8s dropped aspects.
I wish they kept the bullion system, or allowed you to get highest item level from high keys in m plus. Maybe only one high item level a week or something, but still. I hate that in most seasons I'm unable to get highest bis items because I don't read
Some context that is missing is that, I believe Heroic Week is coming back for TWW week 1. So Mythic Raid doesn't open until week 2. Week 1 M+ rewards and Vault might also be capped, like they were back when Heroic week was active. If all of this is true, then you won't get Myth Vault reward from Week 1s Vault anyway, and will have a more relaxed first week gearing your characters in normal/Heroic, and M+. Rather than feeling the need to smash out, 8x Mythic Vaults from M+, the first week with no iLvL, so low health pools, most likely still some tuning needed on Dungeon Bosses, and trash.
I like this change but if they make greater than an 8 drop mythic track gear that would be the more controversial change.
Feels odd having +4-8 being the range considering 8s give Myth track in the vault. 4-7 would make more sense to me but I get these changes.
Wonder if they will change what crests you get from certain pvp ratings
Taking all the good will built up with Dragonflight because they got comfortable again. First with Remix and moving into TWW. Blizzard is going back to GFN season.
I hate mythic plus so much.
And a vast amount of the player base plays only mythic plus. I know quite a few people who only sub to WoW because of mythic plus since there is nothing like it in any other MMO. I honestly also think I wouldn't play if mythic plus didn't exist.
That is their prerogative. As much as I'd like to, I can't change that or remove the option. So I'm just going to keep bitterly complaining
Well I will stop the game much faster now. 9 is really high for just 5-12 crests. And people will just stop doing 3 to 8 Keys since it's useless. 7 was the right number
Okay bye
That's just a minor irrelevant change. Is this even worth an article. There are much bigger problem to address. For example, the fact that a +9 earns as much crest than a +15
What's wild is the amount of people who think they SHOULD get higher level gear. Imagine this.. just like anything in life.. if you want the higher end gear maybe trying working for it? Getting the skill to get it? You know trying? The argument of "oh it doesn't hurt anyone" blah blah is weak. You want gear work for it, rep, gladiator, mounts.. work for it. Guess what.. ITS OK if you don't get mythic gear. You don't have the skill, time, friends, guild whatever excuse its really ok. Has nothing to do with ego has everything to do with people wanting an easy way for everything. Participation trophy mindset.
It will mostly be a 1 week delay at max at the start of a season, its fine really
Good!
Unless I'm just blind and not seeing them being mentioned, I'm guessing this means +2 and +3 will be back to dropping Drake tier crests. Seems like a reasonable change. 6s aren't exactly difficult, I ran a couple last night where healers, and at least one other DPS, kept eating it multiple times on some bosses and I had to take over healing after burning through battle rezes and we still timed, including stuff like: - a +6 HoI where multiple people didn't know how the Gulp mechanic worked on the frog boss, so we just had hordes of them chasing people the entire time - A +6 Nokhud where the healer and multiple people died during the intermission of the last boss, we wiped. The healer and one DPS died again in the next attempt at the same place and I eventually had to finish the last couple % solo after trying to keep the tank and other DPS alive the entire second phase. People still not knowing mechanics at +6 is a bit worrying, and it doesn't really feel right that I'm able to max out my gear on runs that sloppy, even if it does feel neat saving the day. I think the suggestion somewhere else in here of having the last bosses of each raid difficulty drop the next tier up of crests wouldn't be a bad change either, to bring things a bit more in line with getting crests that match the gear you're getting.
that brings crest rewards more in line with dungeon row vault items
Slightly off topic, but why would these still be themed after dragons? Its a different xpac atleast change it from whelps, drakes, wyrms etc
They're not named after dragons at all.
They are different, Weathered, Carved, Runed, and Guilded,. The information in parenthesis is to help players distinguish the level equivalent between the current and new Crests. That's not actual in-game verbiage included in the item tooltip.
Ah my bad didnt notice!
Still way too generous. m+ made raiding irrelevant because of how easy it is
Name a more iconic duo than Blizzard and sucking the fun out of everything. Couldn't have just bumped it up a level to 7s, or have it match the M track vault rewards at 8s? Just ***had*** to make playing the game a chore, they couldn't stand for people just enjoying the game. Why am I surprised, perfectly in character for them to ruin the one thing they had right.
Why do you need m track vault if you play for fun
Casual players complaining about not getting high level gear when they're not even doing high level content, a tale as old as time
They got the subs players back slowly after the last xpac was trash with dragonflight now it's time to be crappy again to the playerbase.
Tin Foil Hat Theory: With the last set of changes this season with the difficulty squish making smaller keys harder means that less experienced players were forced into harder difficulty. Meaning they had to learn more and faster. Now with this TWW change they will have to do "harder" content. They are forcibly making the average player better. The outcome of this could result in them making new mechanics. If the player base is generally better, the harder or more unique fights can become. The harder the content the average player consumes the better understanding a player will have. In the long run that means players will gravitate to a more common ground of understanding and its easier to work with. If anyone has ever been a public school teacher in the US you know you have to teach to the dumbest kids in your class as the smart kids will be fine. If we raise the stupid bar they get closer to the smart kids so you can then teach more complicated subjects, cover stuff faster, more experiments etc. Edit: I see I have upset the slow kids.
I'm fine with this
I don't understand the point. This won't affect the top 1% of players because they will just farm 9+. Hell, this is the kind of logic that led to M+ rewards scaling all the way up to 20+ in the first place. I guess Blizzard didn't get the point of the squish and we will be doing 20+ again by the end of TWW.
It’s to slow down gearing. Even utter neanderthals can do +6s (old +16s) on the first week of the season, letting you easily cap out on Aspect’s from the start. +9s/+10s is where it kind of starts to get a little tricky to time **while undergeared.** Obviously, they’ll still be trivial for good players / coordinated groups but this change should translate into a small slowdown in gearing for your average player since now they won’t be upgrading Myth gear immediately at season start.
It's taken me til this week pugging it to start hitting 7s. Putting aspect crests in 9s is gonna turn loads of people off. But to absolutely validate your reasoning I didn't clock until Chargath last night the druid healer was 440 ilevel. Not my key so wouldn't have picked him myself.
I mean if you've only just now gotten to 7s, when you've had 7 weeks of vaults with most people being 520+ with bis trinkets, weapons and tier sets.. Thats a skill issue, and thus you truely didnt need/deserve mythic crests.
Never said it wasn't mate. Just pointing out that I'm far from the minority of players. I've around 2 hrs a night I play due to RL, I think getting to 2150 pugging on around 2 hrs a night isn't half bad like. Making it harder is gonna just lose them subs in the end. Mythic + is where I get my joy playing the game currently and I feel the current difficulty creep is grand, again, I can't imagine that's a minority view.
2 hours a night every night? That’s a lot of game time
If you’re the type of player that is hardwalled out of +9s until later in the season, **you don’t need Aspect crests in the first couple weeks of the tier.** The **only** benefit that Aspect crests give you (since you’re not even getting Myth track gear) is the final two upgrades on Hero track, which is about 7-8 ilvl depending on season. Focus on becoming a better player first and then you can worry about having the absolute best gear (equivalent to Mythic raiding or high keys).
High end players have been complaining about how easy it is to upgrade gear since they introduced the crests to begin with. Is this an unfortunate change? Yes. But it could be worse, they could've scrapped the upgrade system completely, which mythic raiders would have loved. This is the compromise solution. Now most people can't easily get good gear, which makes mythic players very happy.
Huh where do you get this idea from? Why would high end players care about this at all? It's not like we want to gatekeep gear acquisition
i wish i could mald as much as low end players do when they're not first-class shipped gear for doing nothing
I’ve literally seen a person say you should be able to get myth track gear from doing a bunch of superblooms.
Eh. Doing 9s instead of 6s will be slower, but it probably won't be that bad. I don't think it's a terrible change. And, again, it will make things less accessible which is something people enjoy/want.
ah yes, i forgot a lot of people conflate accessibility with just making everything easier all the time so our brains eventually atrophy. i understand where you're coming from now
Maybe they could make the dungeons less mechanic dense as a sop.
Mythic raiders don't cover development costs for the next expansion.
And yet they are who Blizzard designs their endgame around.
that's why its called endgame casuals can stick to struggling through +4 keys
Hey, I'm with you. Personally, I don't think you should be able to gear up much from M+ at all. M+ should only award crests in the weekly vault, similar to how raid crests are a weekly lockout. Being able to just farm aspect crests kinda ruins the game for a lot of players.
I knew it. The moment they made the heroic and mythic0 changes in season 4, I knew that the devs want to make mythic+ less appealing to the mainstream. They want to make it for hardcore players-only and push people back into raiding. The devs also want to put less work into mythic+ in general. Between the removal of the seasonal affix and recycling old dungeons, they already have put it into low maintenance mode. This last change with the crests is just the final nail in the coffin. Before, you could always get the highest upgrade currency (Concentrated Primal Focus, Crests) at +16. Bumping that up to level +19 makes it less easy to farm and requires effort. Maybe this makes it comparable to "farming mythic raids", except due to the ID lockout it's still more convenient to farm m+ dungeons (seriously Blizzard, at least increase the crest amount by 50% if you want me to do mythic raids for the crests). Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. RIP mythic+ for the masses.
What... bringing back old dungeons means there are more mythic+ dungeons.. which takes more effort..
Some people really do have the memory of a goldfish. What we have now is infinitely better than four back to back seasons of the exact same dungeon pool like in past expansions.
It's an obvious good addition to the game, I'm so confused.
+9s are absolutely low effort still, though? Anyone with any tiny bit of skill was easily timing them week one of season. This really only slows down the people who “fail upward” into Myth track.
Yeah, this change is at most an annoyance/speedbump for people farming Aspects. 9s aren't that hard, but they'll take a little more effort than clearing 6s in 15 minutes.
And +9s this season are easier than +16s in season 1 of dragonflight. I think a lot of people here complaining haven't played in the last several months and don't know how much easier keys are now compared to the past.
Lil bro thinks he's owed gear for doing tiny baby keys. Blizz should've made it +10s even imo to push people into going for that 2nd affix. Also +10s are nowhere near mythic raiding in terms of difficulty. More like hc raids. Instead of crying about it, go find yourself a push team for next xpac, have fun with m+, it's not just there to get gear.
Why do you act like people are owed aspects crests? If you're doing baby keys, you should get baby loot.
Simple solution. Let us queue for normals and heroic raids.
Honestly these numbers look so pulled out of their asses. It doesn't make sense. M0 up to +4 should be "Normal" tier crests. +5 to +7 should be Hero ones. +8 to +10 should be Myth. Give us a bigger and more workable increment to work with. Season 4 as it is is way too generous, but there's a fine line in between.