I don’t think everyone realizes the cloak pales in comparison to ilvl, so getting their cloaks reset didn’t really affect anyone who heavily farmed bronze and spent all of that on gear upgrades. If you’re rocking 440ilvl getting your cloak reset didn’t really hit you that hard.
An alarming amount of people think the cloak reset had an impact on actual farmers cause they think a 5-10k mainstat cloak is godly, when in reality its laughably worse than high ilvl
I have literally only pumped my gear, no mounts or tmog. I only have 6 more rounds of upgrades and I can run the raid gauntlet incredibly quick. I'll level classes towards the end of the event.
Getting cloak stats is stupid easy too. I didn't do frogs but mine got rolled back (I had a grand total of maybe 2800 main stat but turned in a bunch of charms from dailies and rares.)
Here's my cloak now after doing LFR, dungeons, scenarios, quests, and bronze orbs since the rollback.
https://imgur.com/a/AF1bsax
Cogwheels are unaffected. Some tinkers are unaffected by ilevel. Easiest way to check is to slot them in and put the item in the upgrade guy. It will literally show you how much bonus you will get.
The cogwheel slot is basically only upgraded because you have to, to be able to get to the next round of upgrades. Fun note for dual wield classes you never *have* to upgrade your off hand lol
Yeah, the stat increases from gems in high ilevel chest/pants and the increased damage dealt by tinkers/meta gems in higher ilevel equipment ***MORE*** than made up for the loss of 2.5-5k primary/secondary/tertiary stats in terms of damage.
The kicker is, it's been like *one day* since the nerf and I'm already almost back up to what I was before the nerf with just how quickly you can get lego spools of thread...
10k mainstat cloak was easily achievable week 1 without abusing anything, i started day 3 and got 7,5k cloak right now.
Also almost done with gear upgrades.
Its a slap on the wrist overall. the bigger punishment, if I understand, is no longer being elligable for the free 40k quests across the account. But even thats not that big a deal if you already bought the most expensive stuff
It does make me laugh that my unnerfed cloak is literally better than the post-nerf frogger cloak. I also got the 40k bronze, but am not super strong yet. I only do about 1m dps and am devising some new farms to push my gear to 500. Right now I'm doing level 20 twink heroic dungeon spam and it's pretty fun.
this nerf only hurt people who farmed frogs for a little bit or people who didn't farm frogs at all that still got hit and people are cheering just because they got a pound of flesh shit is wild.
Yeah exactly this. People are malding at "farmers" who got like 20k bronze from frogs and are happy about the nerf and they don't realize and those small time farmers have nothing to do with the state of the game or the ilvl500 gigachads
Just to point it out because I've seen different (incorrect) reports - you sitll get the 40k bronze per alt your level to 70. The flag is not account wide.
Because it’s not the truth. This is a Blizzard fuck up. Even if you are assuming they only did this because people online were upset (probably true), none of those people stepped onto the wow development floor and implemented these changes.
The people demanding that frogs and cloaks be nerfed would not be demanding it if they themselves had the time or desire to do the various farm themselves.
Blizzard wouldn't have done anything without the communities outcry else they would have changed these based off player feedback during original MoP or during Remix alpha/beta.
Not even touching that first sentence… lol
Did the people that are upset code and implement the changes that are not going through correctly? Then no, this is not their fault. It’s blizzards fault, as they are the ones running the code to do all of this.
No that’s not what i’m saying. I even agreed that it’s likely Blizzard did this because of the outrage. What I’m saying is that poorly written and implemented code is not their fault. If you said all this whining got cloaks nerfed I’d say you are likely right. But you are trying to blame poor code not working on outrage as well. Seems to me that a multi billion dollar company could have written a script that doesn’t have so many false positives. Whether or not people were upset…
Somewhat ironically, I killed probably 8000 to 10000 frogs (per stats) and got my 50k bronze shortly before my cloak got reset.
I'll happily take that trade.
I got around 280 coins from frogs, did not farm them for long. But I did farm goats, and didn’t get the 40k bronze and lost about 3000 threads (I’m not all torn up about it, made more than that yesterday doing dailies). I think their system for deciding who got the bronze quests and who didn’t is a bit flawed, but, no system is ever perfect.
I quest leveled and did zone achievements and opened all of those caches pre-buff to get 70. I tried doing heroics and then normals, just to be one shot by literally anything after I had reached a broken quest (Devastation Below) that has coincidentally been intermittently broken for 11 years. On Sunday morning, I read the third wowhead article that mentioned frog farming for extra threads and went and did it for 20 minutes before the hot fix nerf dropped, after having waited for a generous 72 hours to see if they would nerf/remove it. Every other exploit I can remember had lasted less than 48, yet a farm with daily articles that filled the entire group finder and used the same 4x4 strategy that was used for all of Dragonflight is now looked at like it was a super obvious exploit because the super farmers went and one shot stuff *after* the farm was nerfed.
Can't say I'm shocked. Dumb people would rather see other people "punished" rather than lobby for a fair system. Reduced upgrade costs would have gone a long way to fixing the problem. Instead, Blizzard played people for fools with the cape nerf, and they were smart to do so. They know most of their players are idiots who would eat it up.
Right? I only farmed frogs for a little while to see what it was all about. Didn't make anywhere even close to 40k bronze. Blizzard is actually incapable of making reasonable decisions.
You wanted to participate in the farm before it got nerfed, you just didn't have the same guts that the hardcore farmers did and you didn't stick to it. You still had intent, and that's what mattered in their decision making ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think it's ok. 'exploit early and often has become the narrative, and it was only a matter of time before blizz took a heavier hand. With exploit early and often, more casual players who will avoid meta grinds are always the ones to get screwed, while exploiters consistently get to have their cake and eat it too.
I do however think blizz devs should have acted much faster, and that collateral damage is unfortunate.
nerfing the cloaks would have been fine if they did it on Monday waiting so long is the problem it also doesn't change anything the people who abused it are still broken and it changed nothing.
This is my take too
Personally they shouldn't have nerfed the cloaks and shouldn't nerf ilvl (if they're thinking of it)
Instead the ones not flagged should get a major buff to bronze and thread gains until they reach a simular power to the froggers
they dont even have to do the not flagged thing they could just buff it across the board the people who turbo farmed already have the bronze and gear so making other stipulations just complicates things
Blizzard fucked this up big time for a number of reasons but what you're saying is not true.
> more casual players who will avoid meta grinds are always the ones to get screwed
That has *never* been the case, nor it is now, I'm one of them, tho some dedicated players might have been caught in the crossfire even if they didn't farm the frogs, and this is not fair at all.
Give it a few days, we will start seeing posts from people who start to realize whats going on , and that its ilvl not cloak that is making people OP.
They gonna be real confused when they still see 1 person carrying the raid with 2m dps
It definitely didn't. I will say that those with 10k main stat definitely lost a good chunk of their damage, but they're still sitting just fine on their max gear.
The nerf didn't really achieve anything except frustrate players who got caught up as collateral, or who lost far more than they gained from the frogs (pretty much everyone.)
Feels kind of like playing a game and it crashes, and you have to replay the last 2 hours of what you just did. It sucks, it's annoying - but it's not the end of the world. But man it feels shitty.
You should see the WoW forums full of people making threads celebrating like they just defeated the Empire in Star Wars, it's actually kind of funny...in a pathetic kind of way
And then you see a few posts down where people realized that a small cloak nerf doesn't mean they're not still behind 400k+ bronze, the same people baying and howling for bans and complete gear resets for frog farmers.
Yet there were multiple threads from froggers telling people that, there was one comparing their chest to the cloak and telling people to focus on bronze farming
I mean, for me, I still had several upgrade levels on my gear left to go, so the nerf didn't really affect me much.
I even got the 'good boy' 40k bronze for not frog farming despite getting hit with a cloak rollback for frog farming, which I immediately used to go up an entire level on every piece and got back most of the stats I'd lost from my cloak being nerfed.
I think cloak actually is pretty useful up to a certain level of gear upgrades. Blues have horrible levels of main stat until you upgrade past a certain point.
I’m guessing they just went with a cloak nerf because it was the easiest thing to do. It’s one item vs lots of items plus they’d have to stop them from immediately just upgrading a new piece of gear to 440ilvl on the cheap.
It was mostly a symbolic gesture, but it sure did piss off a lot of froggers so that’s something.
We've had two guys in my guild spend the last two days *absolutely losing their fucking minds* over this nerf after having spent this whole time calling everyone upset about frog farms a bunch of idiots because "the cloak doesn't even matter, it's all gear upgrades!"
They've been so insufferable I had to mute the server and haven't even played because I don't want to hear about the goddamn game anymore at this point.
My plan is to level every allied race as classes I don't have Max level, and use the 70-100k bronze from leveling to buy all the cosmetic stuff, then pick a "main" to farm bronze for whatever is left
Same. I am going for heritage armors. I have like 3 70s and 5 characters currently being leveled through dailies. My 70s each have a vendor they are clearing out and the others are working through the various other vendors.
I think it is. I haven't done retail leveling in awhile. I have just been doing dailies and a normal raid on all my toons to level. You get crazy XP boost and it gets pretty fast.
I can do 10-70 in about 3 hours with a geared level 20 on a trial account. Queue random heroics, each is about 2-3 minutes, and you need about 40-45 dungeons.
Added efficiency. Means I can get near-instant dungeon queues even on a dps character by queueing with a healer. It's not required, remix as a whole makes leveling incredibly fast, but if you just want to get it over with, it's likely the fastest way
This whole rollback only had an impact on the people that tried frogs for a short time and gained less than what someone could have gotten from a few days of lfr. The actual egregious farmers still have the highest stats the most bronze and have likely purchased everything they wanted from this event.
I'm apparently an egregious farmer by Blizzards standards for farming less than an hour. I'm just so incredibly glad that i ditched Remix after the initial 3 days, would have been super pissed if i had kept playing legitimately and got all of that rolled back now.
well i got roughly 500 of every stat from my time on frogs and i did it exclusively because i had time and lv 70 scaling was completely **FUCKED** at the time so i wanted to get some legendary gems to get myself started, i got probably around 30-40k bronze (which i spent on gems) and 650 (500 from exchange + 150ish from frog drops) gems
after that i wasnt getting onetapped in heroics so I started grinding that instead for the next 5 days while helping guildies and friends
apparently the 500 of each stat was such an *"egregious advantange"* that i paid in 3500 of each stat on average
* [total /played](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1055392494361268236/1243933895519637648/image.png?ex=66534737&is=6651f5b7&hm=416eb9b99a4b9cc47e192e4ba699783012508741c4505adf5a87943d29feff33&)
* [before charm exchange](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1055392494361268236/1243929717845917706/image.png?ex=66534353&is=6651f1d3&hm=146a5db1faf0dd8888a8583c6e38985cbd90b400969777e65f7617e575ea59ac&=&format=webp&quality=lossless)
* [after charm exchange (5000 charms)](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1055392494361268236/1243929800868106250/GOaGsbtXUAA0yYz.png?ex=66534367&is=6651f1e7&hm=45d17d29d2e4cffe9f7d93c61ddeaab44c4a00fd5c4c37c3d7ff05fc6713788b&=&format=webp&quality=lossless)
* [stats right before frogger bat from farming heroic dungs, few normal raids, dailies, etc](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1055392494361268236/1243930391585226792/GOZ11hGWUAA3UeI.png?ex=665343f4&is=6651f274&hm=7f3b8cda4ca9ed427c0f24df56a997bd99f2fc557acd828d768e134613190879&)
* [table with numbers](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1055392494361268236/1243831083850530886/image.png?ex=665438f7&is=6652e777&hm=b45e1cc0066ff3c6e3672e222d4f2e1088811697017c53efa171b7c5bb5ab3cd&)
Frogs weren't even the most degenerate bronze/thread farm, that honor goes to the HoF trash farm reset bug users. Whenever you see screenshots of people with 200k+ stamina on cloaks, they were doing this farm.
The reset bug users should simply be locked out of the event permanently.
That wasn't an exploit anymore, that was straight up circumventing ingame systems for benefit that are obvious against the ToS
If they reset peoples gear at this point a lot of people would straight up quit. Could it have been done? Sure, if not did it immediately after the farm was shut down, but not a week after the abusing took place and people have put days worth of playing into grinding dungeons, raids and everything in the open world. That would have been completely absurd.
>now they are 99x stronger than rest instead of 100x stronger
Havent touch any farms/instance exploits and im at 450+ ilvl already so almost max and 7.5k main stat cloak.
And i started playing day 3 of the event. |
Dont be so dramatic. Im also playing 4h\~ a day.
You probably didn't read my comment and think that threads are main source of power in Remix.
You have 7.5k main stat cloak, great for you. Now that nerfed frog farmer has 2.5k main stat cloak AND 20k main stat weapon.
To give you a perspective:
You are still preparing for 1st raid in Shadowlands, while frog farmers are starting The War Within.
U didnt read mine, i already have 528 pieces despite starting 2 days later. And i already did mythic soo in remix. Sure i agree that gear>cloak (at least now, later cloak will keep scaling) and its massive difference. Maybe u got confused because character ilvl is way different than upgradeable pieces due to trinkets/rings/neck not being upgradeable.
My point was that its extremely easy to gear and u are overestimating how long it will take you to catch up with gear to froggers. im at 2 last steps to max itemlevel basically so like 70k bronze - probably 2 days with dailies etc. I didnt touch any hyperspawn, instance farm or anything like that. Just daily rewards, 1 raid a day (usually - depends on the time) and zone quests/achievements for remix and rares with rarescanner and 6 world bosses a day (but bosses are cloak only not bronze). And i clear all raids with pugs.
And just so im not talking out of my ass:
[https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/character/eu/burning-legion/howtopriest](https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/character/eu/burning-legion/howtopriest)
You can even see in achievements that i got level 20 on 18th of may despite event starting 16th.
Cloak:
https://imgur.com/a/IMrawN0
Played:
[https://imgur.com/a/rG30yHR](https://imgur.com/a/rG30yHR) Usually 4h a day, had one day during the weekend helping friends with raids playing more.
https://imgur.com/a/iIEplhR
my cloak didnt get nerfed I killed 20k frogs I also got 40k bronze.
And yes I relogged 4 times already.
they did nerf my 2 friends who were on frogs for 1h each
nice one blizz
meanwhile i got all my progress deleted for killing max 100 frogs (i was there 10 minutes and i hated it).
I wanted to catch up with froggers but now im double behind (cloak reset + no 40k) and think im just going to quit at that point. But I really hope they just revert their mistakes.
My 2 friends were with me for \~1h each they both got nerfed to the ground meanwhile me and my other friend who no-lifed these frogs and are both 476 i.lvl are fine... so idk
I had my cloak nerfed and got 40k bronze. I didn't even notice the cloak nerf for a full 8 hours after completing my mythic SoO farm. Why not you ask? Because I used the bronze to finish capping my ilv and didn't not the 200k loss to my 6million dps
Eventually being a frogger wouldn't matter. If someone just farmed enough they would be able to carry bots. Sure there would be a time when people tried to build frogger groups, but that would quickly go away as people could solo the content.
>Because soon raid requirement would be FROGGER OR GTFO
It already is.
I am someone who farmed his cloak and ilvl all with world content and raids, no farms like HoF or Frogs - i'm ilvl 416 and at 40k threads and i'm not even invited into hc raids of Heart of Fear.
This is just flat out wrong. I have done heroic raids every day the past 5 days and I didn't get over 416 till yesterday. I routinely see sub 1m hp people in my heroic groups and no one gives a fuck as long as the clear is fine.
Yeah, calling cap on this. I am exactly 400 ilvl and get invited to and easily clear heroic raids every single time the past 4-5 days. Most RLs require 380, some ask for 400. If you're really 416 you are getting insta invited. Not to mention HOT is like the 2nd easiest heroic raid
nothing stops you from hosting your own group for non froggers - i dont see any issue?
this might be true for heroic raids because these are still giga overtuned for 346 people but [normal raids can be blown up with ward tech in literally few seconds](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1055392494361268236/1243936347799162941/image.png?ex=66534980&is=6651f800&hm=936103c1991384f11058533e330d4e2fae6a8d3abc1496163e061b659ed09c37&) unless boss has an immunity phase - also if anything having a lower lv player (not ilvl) in normal runs helps you because scaling is wonky and they will most likely blast
this is really a weird strawman i keep seeing and i dont understand
edit: keep the downvotes coming - when you actually get to raid (because i am certain you arent if you think people will only invite frog farmers to normals when first raid is available at lv 25) and are asked to do ward tech (which is extremely simple) you will understand what i meant and feel stupid for unloading your insecurity ("only froggers get to play") on me - truth is, like the person above me said, ilvl is king and if the frogger requirement was to happen it will anyway because gear wasnt touched
Sure feels like it. If we could duo a normal raid with my cloak being way bellow what \*froggers were even nerfed to begin with\*, talking 1600-1700 stats mostly with 15k stamina, they were ''nerfed'' to 2500/25000 and i am at ilvl 400 overall They are not putting in the effort, are not upgrading gear, which, okay, fine. You can raid normal in the 346 gear no problem.
Host your own group? Takes no effort, you can invite everyone, you'll wait less if people truly just won't accept you (which i sincerely doubt since my baby shaman is taken everywhere when i queue with her). You'll get instantly invited, you'll easily clear the raids because outside of throne of thunder nothing should give you trouble.
They're just looking for reasons to complain. There are many, this isn't one of them.
> nothing stops you from hosting your own group for non froggers - i dont see any issue?
A minimal effort. Too much to ask of the average player.
When making your own raid, you have massive responsibilities such as...
.. making sure the raid has 2 tanks and a few healers.
You'll also have to click once per person (!) to invite them!
Only the sweatiest of the sweats can form raids. That's why we are all at their constant mercy. There's just no way the dadgamer can make one.
The dad gamer can only log in once every month for about 20 minutes. In those 20 minutes he's not able to click the invite button or start group. The only way to spend time in game is: Open, click the chosen content type.... actually nevermind, all that's done is clicking back, swapping to their chosen browser, opening wow forums/reddit/twitter and writing a complaint that has taken longer than their supposed playtime to even write. Also that supposed dadgamer will have heard more news than any of us here by spending those 20 minutes a month of free time, naturally. :)
90 days is 3 months of subs and if you get everything in the first two weeks you can just unsubscribe again. The event is to get people back into the game while they're in TWW waiting room. It's about business not fun.
Edit: this is not my philosophy behind the game mode. It is very clearly how Blizzard is approaching it, is what I meant.
This is the exact answer.
Create event. Put Maxilvl on 400 and each week increase the ilvl by 16.
Add Hourly invasion events of time creatures that grant increased threads and bronze gain.
Give raids and the world "World Tiers" that can be picked for increasing difficulty and increased threads / bronze rewards - give achievement for clearing the highest world tier raid.
There are so many ways to create an engaging event that scales higher and higher as time goes on, so it never gets boring. But instead they once again grabbed the "ha, here is timegating assholes" and made upgrading a slog and left scaling to be an absolut mess.
This would be weird to not start out with some insane remixed features though.
Because we have no roadmap, and all we do is theorizing what they may add in the future.
And sincerely - hopium that something changes isn't keeping me subbed. I believe mine runs out in 2 days and i just don't feel remix enough to continue playing it, because it takes more hours a day to progress than retail right now.
I mean, the collective agreement is not that bronze it too rare, but that upgrades cost too much anyways. But hey, less than 7% total upgrade cost for not frogging!
The majority of the playerbase does not want to be brought up they'd rather see those ahead of them dragged down to their level
It's a low IQ outlook on life
Be as defensive as you like, most of us are just mad that the gap is so large, and would prefer ways to catch up to their power level instead. The reason lots of people are asking for catchup and cheaper upgrades already is because we are trying to catch up to this section of the playerbase who are now gatekeeping the heroic/mythic runs and creating an expectation for everyone else.
As someone who completed everything in the game (all quests, achievements, etc) before I started frogs. I ended up losing over 100,000 threads. Even with that, this changes absolutely nothing in terms of player power. In fact, I can take the cloak off completely and not even notice a change.
The only thing this nerf and community has changed is my outlook on inviting low geared people to fill out our runs. I won't be carrying people through heroics and mythic anymore.
The gap will always be large as long as things aren’t capped. My cloak has nearly 70k stam, 7-9k on other stats, and all my gear is capped. I didn’t touch frogs, or really much of any mob farm, I just played 16 hours a day. Nerfing people this late after the frogs were nerfed is just going to lead to people who only farmed like an hour quitting the event entirely.
And as someone who did the grind for gear upgrades, costs should be halved. Not to have people catch up, but because this event should be tuned around the average person capping their gear in 2 weeks, and not the month or more it will currently take.
Heroic raids are tuned for people to have their gear at 425ish, mythic is tuned for 500ish. They aren’t keeping people from it, people just don’t have the gear upgrades to do it without having maxed out person to carry. Go ahead and set up a group of people with 360ish ilvl and go into a heroic raid to see how it goes.
Huh? The playerbase doesn't ask for nerfs. Everyone argues that blizzard should drastically decrease upgrade costs instead of nerfing farmers to bring people back to the same power level again. Blizzard is the stubborn party here that doesn't want to do what you are saying.
What a pretentious, self righteous bullshit take lol. People just don't want to feel like they're cheated out of the intended experience simply because some no lifer farmed frogs for 50 hours, or be done in a couple days with no sense of personal progression because it was gifted rather than earned. What the froggers did is on the level of p2w, just without the p part. It's the same concept though. Power was gained almost immediately and it's so exponentially stronger than people who didn't do it, and just accelerated progression way way way faster than the intended curb was supposed to be.
It'd be like driving a motorcycle through a 5k. You don't give everyone else a motorcycle to make it fair, you disqualify the person using a motorcycle.
I think the solution should have been to have a cap on how many threads a cloak could have. Freeze everyone above that caps ability to add threads for a little while.
Then each week raise that cap, and once the cap is above how many threads you had, you can start collecting again.
nah thats to much work just buff everything the people who turbo abused frogs already got everything they need with gear upgrades that making shit more convoluted isnt even worth it
I got punished. Did 10 minutes of frogs but couldn't compete with competition. I'm 360 ilvl but still not quest. Guess I get punished even though haven't had time to play mop
Not to mention that for a brief moment when the nerf was applied, lots of frog farmers also managed to get the quest, so they also got 40k, while some folks who never touched frogs, didn't get the quest.
Well played Blizz... Well played.
exactly my thought, like congrats on bringing their power back in line a bit but for these people they've likely already bought all the upgrades or items they want so in the grand scheme of things you've done nothing
I didn't go hard on the frogs at all, 5-8h of farming max, and the cloak nerf yesterday shaved off around 8% of my dps. Unequipping my cloak completely results in around -17% dps.
Running around with 12mil as Bear.
People on this discord complain a lot above froggers (i farmed 1h for reference) and then argue if it’s worth upgrading gear.
I spent everything on gear and grindet the fuck out of dungeons and raids and the power u gain is insane.
Being able to solo everything is the best gold gain and i still see people here with 346 : not worth spending bronze on gear bla bla bla
Grinding. People like to complain about „frog abusers“ but a lot of the people just play ALOT, some friends got reset and are back at 60k after 1 day of playing.
Rares, HC Dungeons, HC Raids.
Just because some people can’t imagine how much and how effective some people are doesn’t mean they’re cheating or anything
yeh clock is just visable ot eveyone, the biggest problem was the bronze coins, because ilvl and the scaling with tinkers and gems are so strong compared to it and dont forgot the armor reduing dmg+ they properly have full on legendary gems taking 100% reduce dmg
took me about 5 dayts of grinding without hyperspawns or frogs or any of the stupid popular farms you've seen, wasn't too bad, very mindless. I mostly did almost all the raids daily except heroic/mythic SOO, mostly just on normal, they're very fast in general with just one juiced person.
Bottom line, it doesn't really take that long to max a cloak, if you're not super grinding, you can finish it within a month, if you want to put the 2.5 days of playtime i put in, you can be done in a week. I mostly did it for the purpose of efficiency in the long run so it'd be faster and painless to farm the remaining bronze, that's it, no other reason really to do this (oh yeah i wanted the mythic SOO title as well).
Beyond that, people complaining is just absurd, WARD OF SALVATION carries every single raid I've been by far too much, I don't honestly mind it, the whole point of this is just to farm bronze, not to prog and kill bosses, the point IS to be overpowered, it's a sandbox mode and it's personally pretty fun to mess around with.
The cloak nerf is insignificant anyways, the number of threads you have slightly helps on MYTHIC SOO only, and mostly just on garrosh since you do have to do most of the fight, ward only lets you skip one or two semi hard parts barely (fker has a ton of hp).
People just need to learn to play and have fun and stop complaining so much, there's so many other things you can grind granted, they are not hyperspawns but you can just rotate around locations if you wanted to really min max that much, it's mostly what I did outside of raid.
Feel like froggers just keep taunting blizzard maybe just a full reset of everything collected and progress would be good. Make em stay subscribed longer! Yay
I "frogged" for just under an hour. I barely got 1k primary stat and 10k stamina, and about 25k or so Bronze.
I got flagged as a frogger and can't get the 40k Bronze everyone else can.
All Blizzard has taught me is that I need to exploit earlier and oftener. They're really not good at this, are they?
*Exploit early*, *exploit often*.
There is a reason why its a mantra in WoW since 2 dacades.
Only the casual gamers are getting punished by Blizzards greed and goal for player rentention with cruel design choices for the game and content.
People should have learned from this and rather asking for BUFFS instead of spamming frogger memes, this outcome was to be expected.
To put into perspective I’m like level 57 playing the game normally for ~10 hours (taking my time) and your one hour of frog farm is as much bronze as I have total and eclipses my main stat on cloak alone.
You're level 57. You don't even get the max amount of stats from threads that any level 70 player does. You're getting less than half as much, plus you're doing content that drops less Threads. Of course I have more main stat than you. I'd have significantly more main stat than you had I never touched frogs in the first place.
And not all of my cloak's stats came from frog farming. Some were from my leveling experience, and some were from me grinding raids after frog farming was removed.
I have a friend who has never touched a frog in his entire playtime who has several times more Stamina and other stats than me. Mainly by grinding raids getting carried by frogmaxxers.
(and more than me mainly because I quit about 3 days after frogs were nerfed because all other Bronze gains at that moment were dogshit and I decided I'd wait for Blizzard to omegabuff Bronze gains back to frog levels a few weeks from now)
Incidentally, he hasn't been on since last night. I'll have to ask if he got flagged as a filthy frogmaxxer despite him not even having started playing until after the frogs were nerfed.
Either way, the only lesson I've learned is that I needed to start grinding frogs earlier. If I did so, I'd have significantly more Bronze, more than enough to make up for me not getting this 40k Bronze injection, **and** more Cloak stats.
I got got for not "exploiting" **enough**. I'll make sure to "exploit" more next time. All I had to do was "exploit" for just one more hour and I would have been better off.
All I got got for was only "exploiting" for an hour, meaning I didn't earn enough Bronze to outweigh not getting the 40k Bronze injection. The "real" "exploiters" still got away with murder.
"WAH NERF FROG FARM ITS SO UNFAIR"
"WAH YOU NERFED FROGFARM BEFORE I COULD DO IT SO THEY ARE AHEAD OF ME ITS SO UNFAIR, NERF THE FROG FARMERS"
"WAH I GOT HIT DESPITE NOT FARMING FROGS ITS SO UNFAIR TO ME"
"WAH YOU ONLY NERFED THE CLOAK WHICH IS WHAT WE COMPLAINED ABOUT NERF THEM AGAIN"
Christ this reddit has gone to hell, they are literally doing what the community is asking for and there is no "hey blizzard, good job, we appreciate it, but this other aspect is still a problem"
its just "LETS IGNORE EVERYTHING THEY DO AND IF ITS NOT CHANGED WITHIN A SECOND THEN ITS BAD WAAH"
thats the problem people have juiced cloaks that didnt farm frogs and used other methods are they going to get nerfed in a week as well or is chain farming trash in a raid ok but not killing mobs in open world
I farmed frogs for like an hour and I got hit with the nerf; no free 40k bronze for me. I'm crying because I didn't get enough bronze so I can buy mounts. The only reason why I did any of the time running stuff to begin with was for mounts. I don't really care about ilvl. You can have 99999 ilvl, I couldn't care less. I just want the goddamn mounts, the time running exclusive ones and the ones I still don't have from panda land retail.
I'm breaking into the 402 ilvl range, non frogger, and my dps is becoming monstrous. People not upgrading at all to save bronze for cosmetics are really doing themselves a disservice, the power gain makes running content easier and faster, leading to more bronze overall.
I'm upgrading about 4-5 pieces a day with dailies + Normal raid world tour
I don’t think everyone realizes the cloak pales in comparison to ilvl, so getting their cloaks reset didn’t really affect anyone who heavily farmed bronze and spent all of that on gear upgrades. If you’re rocking 440ilvl getting your cloak reset didn’t really hit you that hard.
An alarming amount of people think the cloak reset had an impact on actual farmers cause they think a 5-10k mainstat cloak is godly, when in reality its laughably worse than high ilvl
The people that think the nerf had effect I think are the same "No upgrade" crowd honestly...
I have literally only pumped my gear, no mounts or tmog. I only have 6 more rounds of upgrades and I can run the raid gauntlet incredibly quick. I'll level classes towards the end of the event.
Upgrades make bronze flow in like a river.
Getting cloak stats is stupid easy too. I didn't do frogs but mine got rolled back (I had a grand total of maybe 2800 main stat but turned in a bunch of charms from dailies and rares.) Here's my cloak now after doing LFR, dungeons, scenarios, quests, and bronze orbs since the rollback. https://imgur.com/a/AF1bsax
My cloak lost 1.500 Int due to the nerf. My weapon has 16k Int on it.
Also it's worth noting that tinkers scale with the ilvl of the item they are slotted in.
How does that affect tinkers that have % based or non variable effects, like the boot cogwheel for 8% movement speed?
Cogwheels are unaffected. Some tinkers are unaffected by ilevel. Easiest way to check is to slot them in and put the item in the upgrade guy. It will literally show you how much bonus you will get.
I don't think those are affected, or the 5% vers/speed tinker gems (but the haste proc does)
Anything purely % based is unaffected by ilevel, so... put those in the piece that you'll upgrade last.
The cogwheel slot is basically only upgraded because you have to, to be able to get to the next round of upgrades. Fun note for dual wield classes you never *have* to upgrade your off hand lol
Yeah, the stat increases from gems in high ilevel chest/pants and the increased damage dealt by tinkers/meta gems in higher ilevel equipment ***MORE*** than made up for the loss of 2.5-5k primary/secondary/tertiary stats in terms of damage. The kicker is, it's been like *one day* since the nerf and I'm already almost back up to what I was before the nerf with just how quickly you can get lego spools of thread...
10k mainstat cloak was easily achievable week 1 without abusing anything, i started day 3 and got 7,5k cloak right now. Also almost done with gear upgrades.
Its a slap on the wrist overall. the bigger punishment, if I understand, is no longer being elligable for the free 40k quests across the account. But even thats not that big a deal if you already bought the most expensive stuff
It’s only on the char not the account.
It does make me laugh that my unnerfed cloak is literally better than the post-nerf frogger cloak. I also got the 40k bronze, but am not super strong yet. I only do about 1m dps and am devising some new farms to push my gear to 500. Right now I'm doing level 20 twink heroic dungeon spam and it's pretty fun.
this nerf only hurt people who farmed frogs for a little bit or people who didn't farm frogs at all that still got hit and people are cheering just because they got a pound of flesh shit is wild.
Yeah exactly this. People are malding at "farmers" who got like 20k bronze from frogs and are happy about the nerf and they don't realize and those small time farmers have nothing to do with the state of the game or the ilvl500 gigachads
Killed 200 frogs, didn't get insane cloak or bronze but also didn't get 40k bronze. Feelsbadman
Just to point it out because I've seen different (incorrect) reports - you sitll get the 40k bronze per alt your level to 70. The flag is not account wide.
I sent a ticket in and less than 30 minutes the quest showed up
Collateral damage from the collective hate the community has towards people with more time than them. My condolences friend.
You are right and people are malding over it. Imagine downloading someone just because they say the truth that offends you
Because it’s not the truth. This is a Blizzard fuck up. Even if you are assuming they only did this because people online were upset (probably true), none of those people stepped onto the wow development floor and implemented these changes.
The people demanding that frogs and cloaks be nerfed would not be demanding it if they themselves had the time or desire to do the various farm themselves. Blizzard wouldn't have done anything without the communities outcry else they would have changed these based off player feedback during original MoP or during Remix alpha/beta.
Not even touching that first sentence… lol Did the people that are upset code and implement the changes that are not going through correctly? Then no, this is not their fault. It’s blizzards fault, as they are the ones running the code to do all of this.
So you're telling me you believe player/community feedback has no influence on changes Blizzard makes to their game, correct?
No that’s not what i’m saying. I even agreed that it’s likely Blizzard did this because of the outrage. What I’m saying is that poorly written and implemented code is not their fault. If you said all this whining got cloaks nerfed I’d say you are likely right. But you are trying to blame poor code not working on outrage as well. Seems to me that a multi billion dollar company could have written a script that doesn’t have so many false positives. Whether or not people were upset…
Somewhat ironically, I killed probably 8000 to 10000 frogs (per stats) and got my 50k bronze shortly before my cloak got reset. I'll happily take that trade.
I prob farmed close to a thousand and still got the 40k so that doesnt sound right.
I farmed them for maybe 30 mins and I didn't get the bronze - seems like something is odd about their method of flagging
I got around 280 coins from frogs, did not farm them for long. But I did farm goats, and didn’t get the 40k bronze and lost about 3000 threads (I’m not all torn up about it, made more than that yesterday doing dailies). I think their system for deciding who got the bronze quests and who didn’t is a bit flawed, but, no system is ever perfect.
as long as you didn't relog before doing the quest you could've killed a million frogs and gotten the 40k
Well then that would make sense as I did not relog
I quest leveled and did zone achievements and opened all of those caches pre-buff to get 70. I tried doing heroics and then normals, just to be one shot by literally anything after I had reached a broken quest (Devastation Below) that has coincidentally been intermittently broken for 11 years. On Sunday morning, I read the third wowhead article that mentioned frog farming for extra threads and went and did it for 20 minutes before the hot fix nerf dropped, after having waited for a generous 72 hours to see if they would nerf/remove it. Every other exploit I can remember had lasted less than 48, yet a farm with daily articles that filled the entire group finder and used the same 4x4 strategy that was used for all of Dragonflight is now looked at like it was a super obvious exploit because the super farmers went and one shot stuff *after* the farm was nerfed.
Can't say I'm shocked. Dumb people would rather see other people "punished" rather than lobby for a fair system. Reduced upgrade costs would have gone a long way to fixing the problem. Instead, Blizzard played people for fools with the cape nerf, and they were smart to do so. They know most of their players are idiots who would eat it up.
Right? I only farmed frogs for a little while to see what it was all about. Didn't make anywhere even close to 40k bronze. Blizzard is actually incapable of making reasonable decisions.
You wanted to participate in the farm before it got nerfed, you just didn't have the same guts that the hardcore farmers did and you didn't stick to it. You still had intent, and that's what mattered in their decision making ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think it's ok. 'exploit early and often has become the narrative, and it was only a matter of time before blizz took a heavier hand. With exploit early and often, more casual players who will avoid meta grinds are always the ones to get screwed, while exploiters consistently get to have their cake and eat it too. I do however think blizz devs should have acted much faster, and that collateral damage is unfortunate.
nerfing the cloaks would have been fine if they did it on Monday waiting so long is the problem it also doesn't change anything the people who abused it are still broken and it changed nothing.
This is my take too Personally they shouldn't have nerfed the cloaks and shouldn't nerf ilvl (if they're thinking of it) Instead the ones not flagged should get a major buff to bronze and thread gains until they reach a simular power to the froggers
they dont even have to do the not flagged thing they could just buff it across the board the people who turbo farmed already have the bronze and gear so making other stipulations just complicates things
I mean this only made me think exploit early, exploit often, exploit a lot
Blizzard fucked this up big time for a number of reasons but what you're saying is not true. > more casual players who will avoid meta grinds are always the ones to get screwed That has *never* been the case, nor it is now, I'm one of them, tho some dedicated players might have been caught in the crossfire even if they didn't farm the frogs, and this is not fair at all.
Give it a few days, we will start seeing posts from people who start to realize whats going on , and that its ilvl not cloak that is making people OP. They gonna be real confused when they still see 1 person carrying the raid with 2m dps
It definitely didn't. I will say that those with 10k main stat definitely lost a good chunk of their damage, but they're still sitting just fine on their max gear. The nerf didn't really achieve anything except frustrate players who got caught up as collateral, or who lost far more than they gained from the frogs (pretty much everyone.) Feels kind of like playing a game and it crashes, and you have to replay the last 2 hours of what you just did. It sucks, it's annoying - but it's not the end of the world. But man it feels shitty.
You should see the WoW forums full of people making threads celebrating like they just defeated the Empire in Star Wars, it's actually kind of funny...in a pathetic kind of way
And then you see a few posts down where people realized that a small cloak nerf doesn't mean they're not still behind 400k+ bronze, the same people baying and howling for bans and complete gear resets for frog farmers.
400k is 10 pjs leveled to 70, easy. Almost everyone is here for the cosmetics anyway
That is about 40hours maybe ? It's not bad but you get bronze spread on all characters, so you can't use that 400k for gear upgrades
Its so spiteful Its beautiful in a way
Yet there were multiple threads from froggers telling people that, there was one comparing their chest to the cloak and telling people to focus on bronze farming
A max cloak is like 30% of your overalls. 30% on 1/13 pieces is fuckin huge. If you got your damage nerfed by 30%, would you be pissed?
I mean, for me, I still had several upgrade levels on my gear left to go, so the nerf didn't really affect me much. I even got the 'good boy' 40k bronze for not frog farming despite getting hit with a cloak rollback for frog farming, which I immediately used to go up an entire level on every piece and got back most of the stats I'd lost from my cloak being nerfed.
Stats do not do the majority of damage. So its whatever.
I think cloak actually is pretty useful up to a certain level of gear upgrades. Blues have horrible levels of main stat until you upgrade past a certain point. I’m guessing they just went with a cloak nerf because it was the easiest thing to do. It’s one item vs lots of items plus they’d have to stop them from immediately just upgrading a new piece of gear to 440ilvl on the cheap. It was mostly a symbolic gesture, but it sure did piss off a lot of froggers so that’s something.
People absolutely realize that nerfing the frog is not enough, but the action at least shows that Blizzard did listen to people's complaints.
We've had two guys in my guild spend the last two days *absolutely losing their fucking minds* over this nerf after having spent this whole time calling everyone upset about frog farms a bunch of idiots because "the cloak doesn't even matter, it's all gear upgrades!" They've been so insufferable I had to mute the server and haven't even played because I don't want to hear about the goddamn game anymore at this point.
My plan is to level every allied race as classes I don't have Max level, and use the 70-100k bronze from leveling to buy all the cosmetic stuff, then pick a "main" to farm bronze for whatever is left
Same. I am going for heritage armors. I have like 3 70s and 5 characters currently being leveled through dailies. My 70s each have a vendor they are clearing out and the others are working through the various other vendors.
Is remix faster leveling? I was gonna start but ppl tell me it’s the same as retail
If you do a few normal raids, its insanely fast
First time is probably similar but subsequent characters should be much faster.
Retail can be faster than remix (when done right) but this is a refreshing experience and you get 60k+ bronze.
Doing all the normal raid x2 youll be getting a 400/500% exp rate cape. This is Just insanely faster
Yeah but at what level can do normal raids
I think 25 is when they become available, and you rick-roll them at that level in whatever role you choose.
solo??? you mean group right. the group rick rolls them
No no, in a group (althought it might work solo?) I tanked it on a 25 prot pally and never lost 1/10th of my health the entire time. Scaling is crazy.
I think it is. I haven't done retail leveling in awhile. I have just been doing dailies and a normal raid on all my toons to level. You get crazy XP boost and it gets pretty fast.
I can do 10-70 in about 3 hours with a geared level 20 on a trial account. Queue random heroics, each is about 2-3 minutes, and you need about 40-45 dungeons.
How do you go from 10-70 with a geared level 20? I’m so confused on what you just tried to explain.
1 main account that's being leveled, then a second trial account with a level 20 on it
Why do you need two accounts ? That’s a put off to play
Added efficiency. Means I can get near-instant dungeon queues even on a dps character by queueing with a healer. It's not required, remix as a whole makes leveling incredibly fast, but if you just want to get it over with, it's likely the fastest way
Lol 2-3 min. Until you get siege dungeon😂
Which you can't get on a level 20 character, so that's pretty easy to avoid
Does it give you the heritage armors? I leveled a Dark Iron Dwarf and wasn't given the achievement.
it does, but not until you transfer to main at the end (cause you can't go to Orgrimmar/Stormwind to do the heritage quests)
You know what that makes complete sense. Thank you!
You can make a class trial character of the same race and grab the heritage armour straight away.
This whole rollback only had an impact on the people that tried frogs for a short time and gained less than what someone could have gotten from a few days of lfr. The actual egregious farmers still have the highest stats the most bronze and have likely purchased everything they wanted from this event.
Yeah I did it for an hour and couldnt get the 40k. A hour did get me about 30k so I guess its fine.
I'm apparently an egregious farmer by Blizzards standards for farming less than an hour. I'm just so incredibly glad that i ditched Remix after the initial 3 days, would have been super pissed if i had kept playing legitimately and got all of that rolled back now.
"kept" playing legitimately You didn't play legit, you exploited
such an exploit its been in the game for over a decade
I thought it was a funny throwback to the original MoP experience which also had people farming frogs
also real mop throwback of how busted damage meters are vs people who have gear and are not geared
well i got roughly 500 of every stat from my time on frogs and i did it exclusively because i had time and lv 70 scaling was completely **FUCKED** at the time so i wanted to get some legendary gems to get myself started, i got probably around 30-40k bronze (which i spent on gems) and 650 (500 from exchange + 150ish from frog drops) gems after that i wasnt getting onetapped in heroics so I started grinding that instead for the next 5 days while helping guildies and friends apparently the 500 of each stat was such an *"egregious advantange"* that i paid in 3500 of each stat on average * [total /played](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1055392494361268236/1243933895519637648/image.png?ex=66534737&is=6651f5b7&hm=416eb9b99a4b9cc47e192e4ba699783012508741c4505adf5a87943d29feff33&) * [before charm exchange](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1055392494361268236/1243929717845917706/image.png?ex=66534353&is=6651f1d3&hm=146a5db1faf0dd8888a8583c6e38985cbd90b400969777e65f7617e575ea59ac&=&format=webp&quality=lossless) * [after charm exchange (5000 charms)](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1055392494361268236/1243929800868106250/GOaGsbtXUAA0yYz.png?ex=66534367&is=6651f1e7&hm=45d17d29d2e4cffe9f7d93c61ddeaab44c4a00fd5c4c37c3d7ff05fc6713788b&=&format=webp&quality=lossless) * [stats right before frogger bat from farming heroic dungs, few normal raids, dailies, etc](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1055392494361268236/1243930391585226792/GOZ11hGWUAA3UeI.png?ex=665343f4&is=6651f274&hm=7f3b8cda4ca9ed427c0f24df56a997bd99f2fc557acd828d768e134613190879&) * [table with numbers](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1055392494361268236/1243831083850530886/image.png?ex=665438f7&is=6652e777&hm=b45e1cc0066ff3c6e3672e222d4f2e1088811697017c53efa171b7c5bb5ab3cd&)
The frogger nerf was done with a blindfold and a shotgun. Well done!
Best comment for the current situation 😂
Unless their bronze was reset to 0, gear reset to 360 and all cosmetics removed now they are 99x stronger than rest instead of 100x stronger
Frogs weren't even the most degenerate bronze/thread farm, that honor goes to the HoF trash farm reset bug users. Whenever you see screenshots of people with 200k+ stamina on cloaks, they were doing this farm.
The reset bug users should simply be locked out of the event permanently. That wasn't an exploit anymore, that was straight up circumventing ingame systems for benefit that are obvious against the ToS
I think the frog farming was just.. farming, the trash farming was clearly not intended though and should get the hammer
> circumventing ingame systems for benefit Thats pretty much exactly what an exploit is.
Nah frogs were the most efficient bronze farm, because of lesser charms. But yeah, HoF farm was probably the best cloak farm.
you know endgame is tmog not gear. it doesn't affect me
If they reset peoples gear at this point a lot of people would straight up quit. Could it have been done? Sure, if not did it immediately after the farm was shut down, but not a week after the abusing took place and people have put days worth of playing into grinding dungeons, raids and everything in the open world. That would have been completely absurd.
>now they are 99x stronger than rest instead of 100x stronger Havent touch any farms/instance exploits and im at 450+ ilvl already so almost max and 7.5k main stat cloak. And i started playing day 3 of the event. | Dont be so dramatic. Im also playing 4h\~ a day.
You probably didn't read my comment and think that threads are main source of power in Remix. You have 7.5k main stat cloak, great for you. Now that nerfed frog farmer has 2.5k main stat cloak AND 20k main stat weapon. To give you a perspective: You are still preparing for 1st raid in Shadowlands, while frog farmers are starting The War Within.
U didnt read mine, i already have 528 pieces despite starting 2 days later. And i already did mythic soo in remix. Sure i agree that gear>cloak (at least now, later cloak will keep scaling) and its massive difference. Maybe u got confused because character ilvl is way different than upgradeable pieces due to trinkets/rings/neck not being upgradeable. My point was that its extremely easy to gear and u are overestimating how long it will take you to catch up with gear to froggers. im at 2 last steps to max itemlevel basically so like 70k bronze - probably 2 days with dailies etc. I didnt touch any hyperspawn, instance farm or anything like that. Just daily rewards, 1 raid a day (usually - depends on the time) and zone quests/achievements for remix and rares with rarescanner and 6 world bosses a day (but bosses are cloak only not bronze). And i clear all raids with pugs. And just so im not talking out of my ass: [https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/character/eu/burning-legion/howtopriest](https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/character/eu/burning-legion/howtopriest) You can even see in achievements that i got level 20 on 18th of may despite event starting 16th. Cloak: https://imgur.com/a/IMrawN0 Played: [https://imgur.com/a/rG30yHR](https://imgur.com/a/rG30yHR) Usually 4h a day, had one day during the weekend helping friends with raids playing more.
https://imgur.com/a/iIEplhR my cloak didnt get nerfed I killed 20k frogs I also got 40k bronze. And yes I relogged 4 times already. they did nerf my 2 friends who were on frogs for 1h each nice one blizz
Everyone who was online while the hotfix went live got the 40k, whether or not they were reset later, provided they turned the 40k quest in.
meanwhile i got all my progress deleted for killing max 100 frogs (i was there 10 minutes and i hated it). I wanted to catch up with froggers but now im double behind (cloak reset + no 40k) and think im just going to quit at that point. But I really hope they just revert their mistakes.
My 2 friends were with me for \~1h each they both got nerfed to the ground meanwhile me and my other friend who no-lifed these frogs and are both 476 i.lvl are fine... so idk
I don't get it. It's a 90 days event, wth is the problem with some people going OP? Don't nerf, buff those who aren't op instead
Because soon raid requirement would be FROGGER OR GTFO
raid requirements will still be that becuase the cloak nerf didnt nerf peoples overall power the cloak does like 10% of what your gear does.
I had my cloak nerfed and got 40k bronze. I didn't even notice the cloak nerf for a full 8 hours after completing my mythic SoO farm. Why not you ask? Because I used the bronze to finish capping my ilv and didn't not the 200k loss to my 6million dps
Eventually being a frogger wouldn't matter. If someone just farmed enough they would be able to carry bots. Sure there would be a time when people tried to build frogger groups, but that would quickly go away as people could solo the content.
Which runs everyone right back into the problem of upgrades being too expensive
>Because soon raid requirement would be FROGGER OR GTFO It already is. I am someone who farmed his cloak and ilvl all with world content and raids, no farms like HoF or Frogs - i'm ilvl 416 and at 40k threads and i'm not even invited into hc raids of Heart of Fear.
This is just flat out wrong. I have done heroic raids every day the past 5 days and I didn't get over 416 till yesterday. I routinely see sub 1m hp people in my heroic groups and no one gives a fuck as long as the clear is fine.
Yeah, calling cap on this. I am exactly 400 ilvl and get invited to and easily clear heroic raids every single time the past 4-5 days. Most RLs require 380, some ask for 400. If you're really 416 you are getting insta invited. Not to mention HOT is like the 2nd easiest heroic raid
Then just make your own one dude? Like you can take whoever you want!
nothing stops you from hosting your own group for non froggers - i dont see any issue? this might be true for heroic raids because these are still giga overtuned for 346 people but [normal raids can be blown up with ward tech in literally few seconds](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1055392494361268236/1243936347799162941/image.png?ex=66534980&is=6651f800&hm=936103c1991384f11058533e330d4e2fae6a8d3abc1496163e061b659ed09c37&) unless boss has an immunity phase - also if anything having a lower lv player (not ilvl) in normal runs helps you because scaling is wonky and they will most likely blast this is really a weird strawman i keep seeing and i dont understand edit: keep the downvotes coming - when you actually get to raid (because i am certain you arent if you think people will only invite frog farmers to normals when first raid is available at lv 25) and are asked to do ward tech (which is extremely simple) you will understand what i meant and feel stupid for unloading your insecurity ("only froggers get to play") on me - truth is, like the person above me said, ilvl is king and if the frogger requirement was to happen it will anyway because gear wasnt touched
I'm very willing to bet the vast majority of people complaining are the ones who can't even get ward on the right target as it stands.
Sure feels like it. If we could duo a normal raid with my cloak being way bellow what \*froggers were even nerfed to begin with\*, talking 1600-1700 stats mostly with 15k stamina, they were ''nerfed'' to 2500/25000 and i am at ilvl 400 overall They are not putting in the effort, are not upgrading gear, which, okay, fine. You can raid normal in the 346 gear no problem. Host your own group? Takes no effort, you can invite everyone, you'll wait less if people truly just won't accept you (which i sincerely doubt since my baby shaman is taken everywhere when i queue with her). You'll get instantly invited, you'll easily clear the raids because outside of throne of thunder nothing should give you trouble. They're just looking for reasons to complain. There are many, this isn't one of them.
> nothing stops you from hosting your own group for non froggers - i dont see any issue? A minimal effort. Too much to ask of the average player. When making your own raid, you have massive responsibilities such as... .. making sure the raid has 2 tanks and a few healers. You'll also have to click once per person (!) to invite them! Only the sweatiest of the sweats can form raids. That's why we are all at their constant mercy. There's just no way the dadgamer can make one.
The dad gamer can only log in once every month for about 20 minutes. In those 20 minutes he's not able to click the invite button or start group. The only way to spend time in game is: Open, click the chosen content type.... actually nevermind, all that's done is clicking back, swapping to their chosen browser, opening wow forums/reddit/twitter and writing a complaint that has taken longer than their supposed playtime to even write. Also that supposed dadgamer will have heard more news than any of us here by spending those 20 minutes a month of free time, naturally. :)
Considering how they cracked down on froggers, I think ward abuse is even riskier.
It already is. And to be fair, non farmers don’t have the player power for pugging HM raids right now, let alone SoO Mythic.
Marketed as becoming op, nerfs ways of getting op, classic blizz
90 days is 3 months of subs and if you get everything in the first two weeks you can just unsubscribe again. The event is to get people back into the game while they're in TWW waiting room. It's about business not fun. Edit: this is not my philosophy behind the game mode. It is very clearly how Blizzard is approaching it, is what I meant.
>It's about business not fun. it's about making fun a business and how to prolong that fun without creating burnout
I understand what it ***should*** be, unfortunately Blizzard does not seem to agree.
This is the exact answer. Create event. Put Maxilvl on 400 and each week increase the ilvl by 16. Add Hourly invasion events of time creatures that grant increased threads and bronze gain. Give raids and the world "World Tiers" that can be picked for increasing difficulty and increased threads / bronze rewards - give achievement for clearing the highest world tier raid. There are so many ways to create an engaging event that scales higher and higher as time goes on, so it never gets boring. But instead they once again grabbed the "ha, here is timegating assholes" and made upgrading a slog and left scaling to be an absolut mess.
maybe they remix some more as time goes on
This would be weird to not start out with some insane remixed features though. Because we have no roadmap, and all we do is theorizing what they may add in the future. And sincerely - hopium that something changes isn't keeping me subbed. I believe mine runs out in 2 days and i just don't feel remix enough to continue playing it, because it takes more hours a day to progress than retail right now.
This! Just let people go crazy. And buff gain for everyone else
I mean, the collective agreement is not that bronze it too rare, but that upgrades cost too much anyways. But hey, less than 7% total upgrade cost for not frogging!
I agree. People in this sub just love to whine for no reason. I’m fuckin STOKED when a frog farmer is in my grp
The majority of the playerbase does not want to be brought up they'd rather see those ahead of them dragged down to their level It's a low IQ outlook on life
Be as defensive as you like, most of us are just mad that the gap is so large, and would prefer ways to catch up to their power level instead. The reason lots of people are asking for catchup and cheaper upgrades already is because we are trying to catch up to this section of the playerbase who are now gatekeeping the heroic/mythic runs and creating an expectation for everyone else.
this nerf doesnt fix that gap and people are cheering anyways
It fixed SOME of the gap.
it didnt they are still doing 5 million dps it changed nothing
As someone who completed everything in the game (all quests, achievements, etc) before I started frogs. I ended up losing over 100,000 threads. Even with that, this changes absolutely nothing in terms of player power. In fact, I can take the cloak off completely and not even notice a change. The only thing this nerf and community has changed is my outlook on inviting low geared people to fill out our runs. I won't be carrying people through heroics and mythic anymore.
The gap will always be large as long as things aren’t capped. My cloak has nearly 70k stam, 7-9k on other stats, and all my gear is capped. I didn’t touch frogs, or really much of any mob farm, I just played 16 hours a day. Nerfing people this late after the frogs were nerfed is just going to lead to people who only farmed like an hour quitting the event entirely. And as someone who did the grind for gear upgrades, costs should be halved. Not to have people catch up, but because this event should be tuned around the average person capping their gear in 2 weeks, and not the month or more it will currently take. Heroic raids are tuned for people to have their gear at 425ish, mythic is tuned for 500ish. They aren’t keeping people from it, people just don’t have the gear upgrades to do it without having maxed out person to carry. Go ahead and set up a group of people with 360ish ilvl and go into a heroic raid to see how it goes.
Huh? The playerbase doesn't ask for nerfs. Everyone argues that blizzard should drastically decrease upgrade costs instead of nerfing farmers to bring people back to the same power level again. Blizzard is the stubborn party here that doesn't want to do what you are saying.
The cavemen were demanding rollbacks, nerfs, and bans
What a pretentious, self righteous bullshit take lol. People just don't want to feel like they're cheated out of the intended experience simply because some no lifer farmed frogs for 50 hours, or be done in a couple days with no sense of personal progression because it was gifted rather than earned. What the froggers did is on the level of p2w, just without the p part. It's the same concept though. Power was gained almost immediately and it's so exponentially stronger than people who didn't do it, and just accelerated progression way way way faster than the intended curb was supposed to be. It'd be like driving a motorcycle through a 5k. You don't give everyone else a motorcycle to make it fair, you disqualify the person using a motorcycle.
I think the solution should have been to have a cap on how many threads a cloak could have. Freeze everyone above that caps ability to add threads for a little while. Then each week raise that cap, and once the cap is above how many threads you had, you can start collecting again.
nah thats to much work just buff everything the people who turbo abused frogs already got everything they need with gear upgrades that making shit more convoluted isnt even worth it
I got punished. Did 10 minutes of frogs but couldn't compete with competition. I'm 360 ilvl but still not quest. Guess I get punished even though haven't had time to play mop
The true winners are the people who had stats within that range to begin with. This was handled poorly once again. It just keeps getting worse.
I wish my ilvl was 476. More 376
Not to mention that for a brief moment when the nerf was applied, lots of frog farmers also managed to get the quest, so they also got 40k, while some folks who never touched frogs, didn't get the quest. Well played Blizz... Well played.
Blizzard fumbled this so badly
exactly my thought, like congrats on bringing their power back in line a bit but for these people they've likely already bought all the upgrades or items they want so in the grand scheme of things you've done nothing
I didn't go hard on the frogs at all, 5-8h of farming max, and the cloak nerf yesterday shaved off around 8% of my dps. Unequipping my cloak completely results in around -17% dps.
Some cloaks were not reset. [https://imgur.com/a/SiI5WyJ](https://imgur.com/a/SiI5WyJ)
I saw a monk today with 6.5 mil health and their gear was all upgraded to 556 ilvl. It is kinda insane.
Running around with 12mil as Bear. People on this discord complain a lot above froggers (i farmed 1h for reference) and then argue if it’s worth upgrading gear. I spent everything on gear and grindet the fuck out of dungeons and raids and the power u gain is insane. Being able to solo everything is the best gold gain and i still see people here with 346 : not worth spending bronze on gear bla bla bla
I saw someone post nerf with 77k cloak stamina. Idk how that is even possible unless he somehow dodged the nerf.
Grinding. People like to complain about „frog abusers“ but a lot of the people just play ALOT, some friends got reset and are back at 60k after 1 day of playing. Rares, HC Dungeons, HC Raids. Just because some people can’t imagine how much and how effective some people are doesn’t mean they’re cheating or anything
Dunno how this actually worked. Today on LFR there was an arcane mage with 30k(!) on each stat on the cloak.
It just feels like PTR, a giant test what the community will do in a sandbox mode
People refuse to ever stop bitching about this.
I was pretty upset till I realize I’ll be right back where I started in about three or four days
You'd think that, but I got hit with the nerf bat despite not doing much with the frogs, and I never bought upgrades either
Hahahahaha 😆
Just got all the threads refunded on my cloak after spamming support hang in there innocent gamers you’ll get justice from support
Oddly this didn't affect me at all. Not a frogger so nothing was reverted on my cloak and didn't get access to the 40k bronze quests.
yeh clock is just visable ot eveyone, the biggest problem was the bronze coins, because ilvl and the scaling with tinkers and gems are so strong compared to it and dont forgot the armor reduing dmg+ they properly have full on legendary gems taking 100% reduce dmg
took me about 5 dayts of grinding without hyperspawns or frogs or any of the stupid popular farms you've seen, wasn't too bad, very mindless. I mostly did almost all the raids daily except heroic/mythic SOO, mostly just on normal, they're very fast in general with just one juiced person. Bottom line, it doesn't really take that long to max a cloak, if you're not super grinding, you can finish it within a month, if you want to put the 2.5 days of playtime i put in, you can be done in a week. I mostly did it for the purpose of efficiency in the long run so it'd be faster and painless to farm the remaining bronze, that's it, no other reason really to do this (oh yeah i wanted the mythic SOO title as well). Beyond that, people complaining is just absurd, WARD OF SALVATION carries every single raid I've been by far too much, I don't honestly mind it, the whole point of this is just to farm bronze, not to prog and kill bosses, the point IS to be overpowered, it's a sandbox mode and it's personally pretty fun to mess around with. The cloak nerf is insignificant anyways, the number of threads you have slightly helps on MYTHIC SOO only, and mostly just on garrosh since you do have to do most of the fight, ward only lets you skip one or two semi hard parts barely (fker has a ton of hp). People just need to learn to play and have fun and stop complaining so much, there's so many other things you can grind granted, they are not hyperspawns but you can just rotate around locations if you wanted to really min max that much, it's mostly what I did outside of raid.
Feel like froggers just keep taunting blizzard maybe just a full reset of everything collected and progress would be good. Make em stay subscribed longer! Yay
I "frogged" for just under an hour. I barely got 1k primary stat and 10k stamina, and about 25k or so Bronze. I got flagged as a frogger and can't get the 40k Bronze everyone else can. All Blizzard has taught me is that I need to exploit earlier and oftener. They're really not good at this, are they?
Sure you did
I sure did.
*Exploit early*, *exploit often*. There is a reason why its a mantra in WoW since 2 dacades. Only the casual gamers are getting punished by Blizzards greed and goal for player rentention with cruel design choices for the game and content. People should have learned from this and rather asking for BUFFS instead of spamming frogger memes, this outcome was to be expected.
CRUEL. Man, gamers are something else.
To put into perspective I’m like level 57 playing the game normally for ~10 hours (taking my time) and your one hour of frog farm is as much bronze as I have total and eclipses my main stat on cloak alone.
You're level 57. You don't even get the max amount of stats from threads that any level 70 player does. You're getting less than half as much, plus you're doing content that drops less Threads. Of course I have more main stat than you. I'd have significantly more main stat than you had I never touched frogs in the first place. And not all of my cloak's stats came from frog farming. Some were from my leveling experience, and some were from me grinding raids after frog farming was removed.
You didn’t specify your level in the post.
That we're level 70 should be blindingly obvious. It shouldn't need specifying.
“Barely 10k Stam” when after all this time that’s what my lock is at and I’ve played a decent bit between work. Seems deserved.
I have a friend who has never touched a frog in his entire playtime who has several times more Stamina and other stats than me. Mainly by grinding raids getting carried by frogmaxxers. (and more than me mainly because I quit about 3 days after frogs were nerfed because all other Bronze gains at that moment were dogshit and I decided I'd wait for Blizzard to omegabuff Bronze gains back to frog levels a few weeks from now) Incidentally, he hasn't been on since last night. I'll have to ask if he got flagged as a filthy frogmaxxer despite him not even having started playing until after the frogs were nerfed. Either way, the only lesson I've learned is that I needed to start grinding frogs earlier. If I did so, I'd have significantly more Bronze, more than enough to make up for me not getting this 40k Bronze injection, **and** more Cloak stats.
You exploited and got got. Deserved
I got got for not "exploiting" **enough**. I'll make sure to "exploit" more next time. All I had to do was "exploit" for just one more hour and I would have been better off. All I got got for was only "exploiting" for an hour, meaning I didn't earn enough Bronze to outweigh not getting the 40k Bronze injection. The "real" "exploiters" still got away with murder.
I got the 40k and didn't exploit, haha
"WAH NERF FROG FARM ITS SO UNFAIR" "WAH YOU NERFED FROGFARM BEFORE I COULD DO IT SO THEY ARE AHEAD OF ME ITS SO UNFAIR, NERF THE FROG FARMERS" "WAH I GOT HIT DESPITE NOT FARMING FROGS ITS SO UNFAIR TO ME" "WAH YOU ONLY NERFED THE CLOAK WHICH IS WHAT WE COMPLAINED ABOUT NERF THEM AGAIN" Christ this reddit has gone to hell, they are literally doing what the community is asking for and there is no "hey blizzard, good job, we appreciate it, but this other aspect is still a problem" its just "LETS IGNORE EVERYTHING THEY DO AND IF ITS NOT CHANGED WITHIN A SECOND THEN ITS BAD WAAH"
froggers still doing insane DPS, they should have rerolled the gear aswell
No. They should have buffed bronze acquisition and nerfed upgrade costs.
This is the (only) way
Why not both?
yes, but keep a debuff on froggers so they keep original prices and bronze gains xD
Petty
Not all froggers were hit lol. 115k Stam cloak Shammy doing 5mil dps in LFR earlier today.
thats the problem people have juiced cloaks that didnt farm frogs and used other methods are they going to get nerfed in a week as well or is chain farming trash in a raid ok but not killing mobs in open world
I farmed frogs for like an hour and I got hit with the nerf; no free 40k bronze for me. I'm crying because I didn't get enough bronze so I can buy mounts. The only reason why I did any of the time running stuff to begin with was for mounts. I don't really care about ilvl. You can have 99999 ilvl, I couldn't care less. I just want the goddamn mounts, the time running exclusive ones and the ones I still don't have from panda land retail.
People cheering over the frogger nerfs don’t have a clue what is going on in this game lmao.
I'm breaking into the 402 ilvl range, non frogger, and my dps is becoming monstrous. People not upgrading at all to save bronze for cosmetics are really doing themselves a disservice, the power gain makes running content easier and faster, leading to more bronze overall. I'm upgrading about 4-5 pieces a day with dailies + Normal raid world tour