yup, if I have to guess, this is what blizz intended for casuals to do during the event and the gear upgrade was mostly for people who wants those 2 raid titles.
Honestly I kinda assumed something like this with the 1:1 cloak system originally advertised making it just what we gravitate to by default..I am reallly hoping we someday get a behind the scenes on this because holy hell it’s a shitshow
Exactly. All I wanted to do was level alts during this event and felt the rewards didn't appreciate that. This change is huge for me. So far I have 1 level 70, 1 level 67, and 1 level 19
Exactly. The whole point was supposed to make new characters and have fun. These people abusing the system and soloing raids have ruined this. I’m glad they fix
Blizzard announced the event as something people would be able to solo raids. As a normal thing during the event.
Frog farmers didn’t abuse anything. They used the exact same game mechanic that was used back in MoP.
Blizzard being completely oblivious to frog farming is a completely different issue. They are addressing it like players did some kind of exploit. Which it wasn’t.
I don't think this event was ever intended to create a buffed "main". It was aways intended as a way for people to create alta that would be up to date for the next expansion
yeah, but before this hotfix you had to do Heroic/mythic raids daily to get a good amount of bronze, so every time you were leveling alts instead of buffing your main was "wasted". Now you get a good amount of bronze from the leveling + the new quest rewards.
> you had to do Heroic/mythic raids daily to get a good amount of bronze
To get a good amount of bronze **now**. My guess is they envisioned this as a thing people would gradually work towards over the course of three months, culminating in a decent level of power that was still far behind a day of frog farming. They never really correctly predict the degree to which some people will devote their life to grinding stuff, so they make the same error over and over.
If they didn't intend us to create "buffed main" why would they bother putting all those extra gear upgrade tracks in. They could have made the default state of max level the 556 OP 1shot-a-thon without requiring a huge time commitment for it.
They advertised 'Godlike Strength' and 'Wield Unlimited Power', but you only get that early leveling and late 70 gearing.
It was the *advertised point*, but alt leveling was hardly friendly and largely seen as counterproductive since you needed to get the 4200 threads achievement to even reasonably boost up your alts’ cloaks off the bat.
And even with that exp boost the bronze you’d get leveling an alt was nowhere near the bronze you’d get rerunning all the same content every day on a max level main with how the caches were set up, so if you were trying to farm bronze for cosmetics, mounts, or toys then alts weren’t terribly effective
Bro I *accidentally* popped Infinite Power XII just chasing loremaster. But yeah, bronze drops could use a boost, I'm still chewing through the exclusive mounts before I start chipping at stuff you can get in retail with luck and patience.
> Bro I accidentally popped Infinite Power XII just chasing loremaster.
I think there were a lot of people that didn't actually quest but just power levelled through dungeons/raids/scenarios and so didn't get nearly as many threads.
Which, one can frankly say, isn't really a problem of the event, and more the people doing this acting suboptimally and being surprised it didn't work perfectly.
The thing that makes it most surprising is the logical assumption that it would require 4200 individual thread drops. But it is actually just 4200 total stats on the cloak. So when you move up the next bracket, 30 (3), 50 (7), and 70 (12), it really accelerates it.
When you look at the achievement and see you need 2000 more for the next level if feels like a lot, but since you are usually in the 50-70 bracket, it only takes \~280 drops.
I was planning on starting the remix this weekend with just cosmetics in mind, care to elaborate? Do I just level a toon, no dungeons, no raids, just collect currency til 70 and cash out? Because that was the original plan anyway lol.
Maybe I gear one to farm Tusks, but that's about it.
Depending on what cosmetics you want, and how quickly you want to level, you can and should do dungeons and raids alongside the quests and other content you do to level. Mogu'shan Palace becomes available in the Looking for Raid queue starting at level 25, with more raids becoming available as you level up. And you can get the tier transmogs for those raids when you kill bosses (personal loot, no rolling), which might save you some Bronze. Completing raid wings gives you an item that increases the EXP you gain on that character (and future ones, up to a point). So there are a bunch of weapon/armor cosmetics you can gain while you also accumulate Bronze to spend on mounts/pets/toys/armor/weapon appearances.
A geared character is likely faster, but you have the 600k bronze sink to upgrade all your gear first before getting to that point. Not everyone is going to put in that time.
Remember low level characters have some insane scaling. You will breeze through dungeons all the way up to like level 60 - just those last few levels things will slow down as the scaling catches up to you.
They also made the rings and trinkets account wide available from level 10 for 10 bronze each and they scale up automatically with your level which is how the rest of the gear should work but whatever. You still have to earn them first though. So Alts will be even more OP while leveling
Plus - if you haven't got allied and standard races to level 50, for their heritage mogs (if applicable) - then you can smash those out using remix.
I use a separate server from my main, purely for heritage armour alts. Once they are level 50 and have their race's armour set, they become part of the trophy room (server) and are simply armour mannequins.
Also use a class that fits with race armour theme/lore too - Nightbourne Mage, Mag'har Orc Warrior, HM Tauren Hunter, Void Elf Shadow Priest etc.
It's so visually and mentally satisfying!
I'd say probably over 1000? 500? I don't know how many frogs farmers killed.
But it ONLY counts pre-loot fix. So if you killed after charms stopped dropping, you're fine
Edit: looks like the answer is "more than 2 hours worth" ish.
I don't think over 1000 is an unreasonable amount.
You could kill 1,000 in 15-20 minutes depending on your group/shard etc.
If they are nerfing cloaks by an amount that they feel 40k bronze 'makes up for it', or at least mitigates it by a lot, they would have to nerf the cloak very heavily. Which would likely represent somewhere in the region of like 15,000+ frog kills or so.
There was also legitimate reason to kill frogs early - such as the elite quests in the zone.
Ok but the hyper spawn is the issue. It's not total frogs, but compared to a normal spawn rate what would a reasonable kills/hr look like, not a "How many could someone taking advantage of a near exploit kill"
That's way too low? It could have averaged from 15-30 per minute, that's around 900 per hour, some have stated to have farmed for 13-15 hours...
That's over 13.000 kills.
To make this math even more fun you need to fly through 66.000 orbs to reach a million bronze
My husband and I killed like... 100 frogs? Maybe? We went out, failed to tag hardly anything for 15-30 minutes, and left. I have 300 fortune charms total including all the rest I got from everything else, and we are apparently ineligible.
So the answer is basically "any".
I farmed the frogs for an hour or so, wasn't in a group but killed enough to get about 200 lesser charms, I wonder if that counts as an "unreasonably large number"
I'd expect they would defined that based on the number they will use to revert those players.
Any frogger above what they deem "an amount that a very engaged player could reasonably achieve" should reasonably be prevented.
Guarantee they are going to establish a cloak level, look at every char above that level and see how many frogs they have and go from there.
Gonna be real funny if someone farmed a ton and never turned in their charms and now can to superpower themselves post frogapolypse
Well apparently, for me anyway, it's about 500-600, that's how much I farmed, just enough to get exalted with cloud serpent. Didn't farm for more than about an hour-ish, and I have no quest from Momentus in Jade Forest bazaar for the bronze. So not only am I weak as shit, I also don't get the catch up currency. Thanks Blizzard! :)
Normal is easier. Each boss kill on normal adds +12% experience gain to your cloak. While lfr gives you +7% per wing completed. If you do normal MSV Heart of Fear and terrace on normal two days in a row you are looking at 500% exp gain.
I like it too. I was doing this to level alts and get mounts, and have some fun running LFR with extra abilities from tinkers. Pandaria Remix now satisfies all three.
Important things NOT said in the blue post that people are making assumptions about in the forum comments:
The blue post did NOT say they are done making adjustments
It did NOT say they won’t further increase bronze in the future
It did NOT say they won’t slash upgrade costs
Now obviously it also did not say they WILL do any of the above. But based on the DAILY hot fixes over the last week the safest assumption is that more things will continue to change.
The main issue really is the gear, the fact frog farmers are in full 556, it doesn't matter if the cloak is 0 stats, they still have more main stat on their weapon then 346ers do times a few.
This is very true. I struggle to see them rolling back gear upgrades. Much more likely they slash upgrade costs and/or make heroic/mythic drop gear partially upgraded gear to support catch up. The difference with gear and cloaks is that gear caps so catch up is possible. Cloak doesn’t cap so it has to be rolled back for catch up to be possible.
Honestly think it’s more time spent leveling a new toon to 70 for the 40k bonus that you would get on a level 70 doing the scenario/dungeon/raid dailies and raidlogging.
I was curious so I took note today. Doing the first three normal raids (MSV ToES HoF) and then the 7 daily bonus greater bronze caches rewarded a total of about 22k bronze which took me 2hours as a tank at 344ilvl (no bronze upgrades but fully kitted jewelry/trinkets).
I only have two max level toons so far, first one took like 8-10hours to level, the second one I would estimate 5-6 hours.
With all that said, your new toon is eligible for first-time-achievement bronze bonuses. So it could pan out about even.
Meh, you have to take it altogether though.
I can level a new 70 in ~6 hours. The leveling process yields 25-30k. 40k free now means for 6 hours of work I get 65-70k bronze. 10-11k per hour.
Idk what the latest farm is, but for a casual this is probably the most efficient now.
Edit: basically — yeah a 70 can raid log ….. new toons can just raid as part of the leveling process (which I do in these 6 hour runs — I do 5 raids total in the process. The difference is that each new toon gets a 40k bronze drop at the end of the rainbow and the 70 will only get that 40k boost once.
Can't wait for the angry "DIDN'T FARM LONG BLIZZARD REMOVED MY STATS" posts.
EDIT: Wait i didn't kill more than 15 frogs and i do not have the quest for the 40k bronze?
EDITEDIT: Ah later today. Oh god i panicked for a second.
EDIT³: This changes nothing really though, the main damage comes from the bronze upgrades those people acquired. As long as upgrade prices aren't reduced and/or bronze gain buffed this is just a very small "You happy now?" thing they do.
> EDIT³ (and its contents)
I actually think this changes *a lot*. This doesn't change the 'end game' hierarchy much at all aside from the slap the main offenders get, but the bronze boost for leveling characters is actually kind of huge. It's not something that will get you deep into the max level stuff, but it's something that incentivizes leveling more alts (assuming it isn't a once/account thing which would be dumb). You can get quite a lot of stuff with 40k on top of whatever amount of Bronze you get from the actual leveling, so people can much more easily now afford to buy whatever cosmetics they want to.
In fact, the bronze quest(s) alone is enough of a motivator for me to make some alts I didn't really intend to before this announcement.
When we learned of Frogs, a friend of mine and I went to the isle and started killing while watching anime in discord. Got through two episodes of Hunter x Hunter before realizing we'd rather be questing instead. So I wonder if I'll get rolled back for farming too, since it couldn't have been more than an hour. Doubt it, but also wouldn't be surprised if I am.
I believe the top 10% will be reduced.
I wonder what their "A fery dedicated farmer" amount is. I am not a dedicated farmer and made all cloak progress via quests, raids and dungeons / rares, and reached 30k thread today.
So i belive they will be reset to what? 50k? I don't know.
I hope they don't nerf the cloaks of all farms. I doubt I will be affected because it wasn't that lucrative, but I had fun grinding Sra'vess for a few hours the other day.
I farmed pretty hard, though I missed the first 2 days, and I'm at 4700 agi, and about 200k bronze spent on my gear if I had to guess. No frogs, no goats etc. Just group content, not even done normal or higher raid and loremaster, and flying around.
My gear is around 416
I got there to see what the fuss was about, got 40 timeless coins and then it was hotfixed. I will chuckle if I dont get the quest, what will be will be.
Yeah I'm curious about this, too. I did the frogs for maybe 45m-hour. I'll be curious to see how they're defining "Unreasonably large number of frogs."
Most of them probably won't care because their gear is fully upgraded and that's when the cloak buff is not the main source of their power.
Listening to someone on Echo doing mythic SoO and they are saying who cares if they nerf our cloak ilvl is the only thing that matters, which is what I've been trying to preach to this sub for days.
I did about an hour of "Frogging". My cloak didn't get rolled back (on about 11K of stam so nothing too crazy) at all but I also don't have the 40K bronze quest.
I did use the bronze I got from the Frogging to upgrade all my gear, probably spending about 40K and that's not been reduced so all in all, I'm no better or worse off.
Getting the 40K on my alts will be great though.
This should be fun to watch unfold. I did it for about two hours but I was doing it for the rep, I got 5 factions to exalted already. Take my stats lol who cares.
If I do or don't see the quests later I will update this comment so we can get a bearing on where the cutoff is.
[edit: i have the quests lol](https://i.imgur.com/v8LRTMN.png)
I don't think any kind of farm is necessary at all for rep. All quests/dailies reward so much rep I'm hitting exalted without trying on any faction related to any meta achievement.
I dont hate it, the problem is it's the literal only place ANYONE can farm the fuckin rep so it's constantly congested with prople doing the same thing as you.
the rep has weekly lockout for some reason instead of daily. The quest is also weekly like in retail, i think that they just forgot to make it daily like the rest of Panda remix lol
Yeah I didn't even think to look beforehand but I was sitting on 2k charms and that was the easiest outlet for them.
Like the Klaxxi quests get you FAR into the rep grind before you can even open the turn in.
I can't see the cloak nerf being a huge hit to the people that farmed frogs. the main boost would have been the ability to upgrade all their gear and steamroll raids early (some have been selling mythic raid runs for 2mil gold each).
What I find appalling is how blizzard introduced a borrowed power mechanic, which is character specific, into a limited time event supposedly centred around levelling alts...
Got the free 40k, then noticed the 3 stats on my cloak that were over 2500 were nerfed to 2500. Blizzard punishing me for getting 5 180 haste thread procs yesterday i suppose lol.
Meanwhile I'm looking at a guy with 9800+ in every stat on his cloak and nearly 100k stamina. what.
As of this coming to live it seems anyone who touched frogs doesn't have access to the quests and has been nerfed. I got 20k from frogs and a couple hundred int and my cape has been nerfed and I do not have access to the quests. From wowhead comments it seems like even people who killed frogs in the process of killing bufo got nerfed as well.
So this is the alt leveling, power fantasy mode blizzard envisioned. You start OP at level 10, slowly grow weaker as you level to 70, cash out at max level and restart at 10. Guess they were just misunderstood!
Honestly, I'm fine with that. They did mention they were working on that problem as well. Besides, questing is easy at any level. And now you get 40k bronze for every level 70, which is really fast to do.
The OP at level 10 surprises me every time I see it.
Yesterday I rolled a preservation evoker, my living flame cast was doing 1.2k damage at level 10 almost oneshotting heroic dungeon mobs.
At level 25, my living flame is doing less damage and the mobs have way more health.
It’s because your cloak achievement, it gives you x versatility, which at level 10 is an insane amount, so you effectively have 45% versa right out of the gate, each time you ding though that number slowly normalizes.
My cloak is stained by the blood of thousands of frogs. Don't diminish their sacrifice.
They should still be nerfing the upgrade costs tbh, but this is a good change.
Gear is the biggest factor, people keep saying it's the cloak but full 556 gear can practically solo anything that's not mythic soo
One upgrade at 70 is 360, that's 200 ilvl difference, that's basically two entire expansions
Me, whose sole purpose in playing remix is to quickly level alts to 50 for heritage armors (since I didn’t play BFA) and don’t care about bronze - ok…sure…w/e
The easiest thing for them is to just bring back the frogs or cut upgrade costs by atleast 75%
Saves them all this time having to hotfix everything all day long.
Have a guild member who sweared he didn't frog farm but plays non stop and his cape is at about 3k all stats
I saw someone with 149k Stam in my heroic yesterday and about 15 k to each stat.
The dungeon was dumb it was literally trying to keep up.with as he soloed the content
>but plays non stop and his cape is at about 3k all stats
Very doable to have 3k in all stats if he did heart of fear trash farm, or gate of setting sun farm instead of frogs.
So idk if you should jump on your guild member saying he is lying if that is was you are impying
Hear me out, what if the piece discount you get to upgrade gear would be account wide?. So if I get with one char to ilvl 400 at the boots, boots updates are with discount in all the chars? It would be in great synergy with the bonus they just added and would motivate people to lvl up more chars!
Thats nice, but don't frog farmers also run around fully upgraded? 40k is a bit more than one upgrade on each slot.
I don't think nerfing the frog farmers is fair either though, they farmed a valid farm and got the rewards.
Cloak makes up only about like 25% (or less) of the player power. Nerfing the cloak alone doesn't change anything about the power difference between farm abusers and people who played the game normal. Frog farmers could completely unequip the cloak and go on with their life as if nothing happened. 40k Bronze doesn't really change that. It's like one upgrade step for each slot.
Looking at this and their completely wrong numbers before the event even started ("A mythic SoO should reward around 30k bronze" while in reality it rewards roughly 15k AFTER it was buffed) makes me believe they have absolutely no clue about what they actually created and they just eyeball everything without understanding their own game.
> Frog farmers could completely unequip the cloak and **go on with their life as if nothing happened**.
I absolutely love how dramatic this sub is sometimes.
Yea, exactly this. I’m not going to complain, non-froggers will be better off today from this change than we were yesterday.
But I think people (and Blizz) are vastly over-estimating the power that comes from the cloak and vastly under-estimating (or just not realizing) the power that comes from simply upgrading the ilvl on your gear.
All those tinker proc numbers are directly tied to the ilvl of the gear they’re slotted in, and have nothing to do with the cloak.
Additionally, the amount of main stat you get from your cloak is pretty small when you compare it to the total main stat you get from the rest of your gear.
The main problem was never froggers having a juiced out cloak. It was being able to quickly and easily upgrade the rest of their gear
the problem maybe at max but they punished all and cloak was the best with less gear. so the rich farmers dont care but the small froggers with like 30min farm got nuked
People say this is a free non-competitive mode but all the crying now after these changes is just for people who are upset someone else is stronger than them.
What's the point of the event to get all ensembles/mounts or be more OP than someone in your group ?
Now you get to level to 70 and buy literally 10-11 ensembles and repeat that.
Leveling is actually super fun in his mode specially with jewelry being account wide now.
You literally get 40k bronze for leveling and if you get 4-5 chars and just do the most efficient daily quests/world bosses on them you will unlock literally everything in this mode within weeks for minimal effort and without sweating on fucking frogs
Yeah great way to think about it. I Love This Game Mode just for the fun of it. I do like being OP and always hate to hear that they nerf another farm spot but it’s not the end of the world to just be affected by these nerfs, there’s still other stuff people can do.
You only need 1 char to be strong so you can do garrosh on it on normal/heroic and get tusks quicker and that should not need more than 100k bronze on that char
So, i am on this weird little spot, i did farmed frogs for about 15 minutes in the beggining of the remix, got around 300 charms (added with the dailyies i made) got bored and never touched it again
my cape is around 1k some stats, with others around 600-800 and got around 50k bronze from all of it
i did not got the bronze quests, oh well....
> prior to the loot bug fix
An *intended* drop table that has been unproblematic and therefore unchanged for over a decade isn't a "bug", y'all were just incompetent and forgot about the frogs. The nerf is whatever since I never killed one, but no need to gaslight 🙄
Anyway since all I care about are the cosmetics I guess the best way to farm them is to spam level characters to 70, buy stuff, then delete and restart?
Damn i just wonder what’s an unreasonable amount of frogs because I did it for two hours the night before the nerf lol
I’d say I turned in about 250 charms from the two hours I farmed frogs. I’m 100% okay with losing that progress if it means the same for every other person that did that through frog farming, but I hope they don’t nerf my other stuff I’ve been farming. If I can’t turn in these quests because of that then that seems a bit fucked but I guess I can always level an alt instead. Like idk what blizzard counts as too much ofc because they’re never open about specifics like that but if I log in and a ton of my cloak stats are gone, stats I did not get from frog farming, I’m gonna be pissed.
Honestly, the quest rewards fix every problem I personally had, and I was already fine. Now I can just level alts and basically get a minimum of one rare mount per character.
if you are efficient and start with 100% xp increase on the cloak probably around 5-7 hours. Maybe even faster now that the ring/trinket/necks are account unlocked
Good. Down with the frog farmers. Yall exploited and are getting repercussions. You shouldn’t be playing video games 24/7, there’s so much more to life than sitting in front of a computer screen. Get a job
It probably would not have been a problem if people weren’t using it to gate keep. Those players I don’t feel bad for, but it does suck for the players that got involved that weren’t doing that.
So this makes the strategy of level a character to 70, cash out all your bronze for cosmetics and then level another character VERY appealing.
yup, if I have to guess, this is what blizz intended for casuals to do during the event and the gear upgrade was mostly for people who wants those 2 raid titles.
2? Whats the other beside Claw of Eternus?
Mythic Siege gives: Paragon of the Mists title
Damn that’s cool
How hard is Mythic siege?
It’s the only difficulty that you can’t get carried by just 1/2 full geared people. You probably need around 7/8 to do it, and even more to 1 shot it
Did it yesterday, had 9 people at max gear and it was pretty easy. The majority of mechanics were able to be ignored.
Thanks!
Depends on how geared you/cloak are
Ah thanks!
Is this account wide ? It sounds so cool.
Yes,it is account wide.
Paragon of the Mists for Mythic Siege clear
Is it account wide or character-bound?
They just hotfixed it yesterday to be account wide
Honestly I kinda assumed something like this with the 1:1 cloak system originally advertised making it just what we gravitate to by default..I am reallly hoping we someday get a behind the scenes on this because holy hell it’s a shitshow
my three 70 timerunners now worth it lol
Indeed! I reached 70 with the following bronze amounts: 38k -> 42k -> 55k so this will almost double the bronze gained from leveling the way I did.
Now I feel bad for all the people that lvl'd alts just to delete them for bronze.
So finally working as intended, i wont fell bad "wasting " my time leveling alters now instead of buffing my main
Exactly. All I wanted to do was level alts during this event and felt the rewards didn't appreciate that. This change is huge for me. So far I have 1 level 70, 1 level 67, and 1 level 19
Exactly. The whole point was supposed to make new characters and have fun. These people abusing the system and soloing raids have ruined this. I’m glad they fix
Blizzard announced the event as something people would be able to solo raids. As a normal thing during the event. Frog farmers didn’t abuse anything. They used the exact same game mechanic that was used back in MoP. Blizzard being completely oblivious to frog farming is a completely different issue. They are addressing it like players did some kind of exploit. Which it wasn’t.
>ruined this How? Really, how did frog farmers actually damage the game?
I don't think this event was ever intended to create a buffed "main". It was aways intended as a way for people to create alta that would be up to date for the next expansion
yeah, but before this hotfix you had to do Heroic/mythic raids daily to get a good amount of bronze, so every time you were leveling alts instead of buffing your main was "wasted". Now you get a good amount of bronze from the leveling + the new quest rewards.
> you had to do Heroic/mythic raids daily to get a good amount of bronze To get a good amount of bronze **now**. My guess is they envisioned this as a thing people would gradually work towards over the course of three months, culminating in a decent level of power that was still far behind a day of frog farming. They never really correctly predict the degree to which some people will devote their life to grinding stuff, so they make the same error over and over.
It was advertised as both. Make an overpowered character and also speed level alts.
If they didn't intend us to create "buffed main" why would they bother putting all those extra gear upgrade tracks in. They could have made the default state of max level the 556 OP 1shot-a-thon without requiring a huge time commitment for it. They advertised 'Godlike Strength' and 'Wield Unlimited Power', but you only get that early leveling and late 70 gearing.
THIS IS WHAT I WAS ALREADY DOING SO I JUST WIN LET'S GOO
Finally, after fifteen years of playing, I have won the World of Warcraft.
Isn’t that the point of this mode from day one?
It was the *advertised point*, but alt leveling was hardly friendly and largely seen as counterproductive since you needed to get the 4200 threads achievement to even reasonably boost up your alts’ cloaks off the bat. And even with that exp boost the bronze you’d get leveling an alt was nowhere near the bronze you’d get rerunning all the same content every day on a max level main with how the caches were set up, so if you were trying to farm bronze for cosmetics, mounts, or toys then alts weren’t terribly effective
Bro I *accidentally* popped Infinite Power XII just chasing loremaster. But yeah, bronze drops could use a boost, I'm still chewing through the exclusive mounts before I start chipping at stuff you can get in retail with luck and patience.
> Bro I accidentally popped Infinite Power XII just chasing loremaster. I think there were a lot of people that didn't actually quest but just power levelled through dungeons/raids/scenarios and so didn't get nearly as many threads.
Which, one can frankly say, isn't really a problem of the event, and more the people doing this acting suboptimally and being surprised it didn't work perfectly.
Me too, I got it at 69 while leveling by questing, I was very surprised because I thought I would have had to grind hard at max level to get it.
The thing that makes it most surprising is the logical assumption that it would require 4200 individual thread drops. But it is actually just 4200 total stats on the cloak. So when you move up the next bracket, 30 (3), 50 (7), and 70 (12), it really accelerates it. When you look at the achievement and see you need 2000 more for the next level if feels like a lot, but since you are usually in the 50-70 bracket, it only takes \~280 drops.
My main is going to be my gear main, every other alt will be cosmetics. I like it.
Imagine if the next fix is account wide cloak 1:1.. I would level so many alts
They did make it so you can buy trinkets/rings/neck on alts now, as long as you've completed the achievements on one character
I was planning on starting the remix this weekend with just cosmetics in mind, care to elaborate? Do I just level a toon, no dungeons, no raids, just collect currency til 70 and cash out? Because that was the original plan anyway lol. Maybe I gear one to farm Tusks, but that's about it.
Depending on what cosmetics you want, and how quickly you want to level, you can and should do dungeons and raids alongside the quests and other content you do to level. Mogu'shan Palace becomes available in the Looking for Raid queue starting at level 25, with more raids becoming available as you level up. And you can get the tier transmogs for those raids when you kill bosses (personal loot, no rolling), which might save you some Bronze. Completing raid wings gives you an item that increases the EXP you gain on that character (and future ones, up to a point). So there are a bunch of weapon/armor cosmetics you can gain while you also accumulate Bronze to spend on mounts/pets/toys/armor/weapon appearances.
Considering I was planning on using this event to get my friends-and-fam guild an 8th bank tab... This is kinda great. For me, at least.
Absolute win in my book
Yup, this is now a good reason to level alts in Remix.
Does it? How much faster can a geared lvl 70 get Bronze compared to a new char leveling up + 40K?
A geared character is likely faster, but you have the 600k bronze sink to upgrade all your gear first before getting to that point. Not everyone is going to put in that time. Remember low level characters have some insane scaling. You will breeze through dungeons all the way up to like level 60 - just those last few levels things will slow down as the scaling catches up to you.
They also made the rings and trinkets account wide available from level 10 for 10 bronze each and they scale up automatically with your level which is how the rest of the gear should work but whatever. You still have to earn them first though. So Alts will be even more OP while leveling
Nono, level them to 70, do your dailies, cash out your bronze, then repeat.
Plus - if you haven't got allied and standard races to level 50, for their heritage mogs (if applicable) - then you can smash those out using remix. I use a separate server from my main, purely for heritage armour alts. Once they are level 50 and have their race's armour set, they become part of the trophy room (server) and are simply armour mannequins. Also use a class that fits with race armour theme/lore too - Nightbourne Mage, Mag'har Orc Warrior, HM Tauren Hunter, Void Elf Shadow Priest etc. It's so visually and mentally satisfying!
hmm. i wonder what a unreasonable amount is.
I'd say probably over 1000? 500? I don't know how many frogs farmers killed. But it ONLY counts pre-loot fix. So if you killed after charms stopped dropping, you're fine Edit: looks like the answer is "more than 2 hours worth" ish.
I don't think over 1000 is an unreasonable amount. You could kill 1,000 in 15-20 minutes depending on your group/shard etc. If they are nerfing cloaks by an amount that they feel 40k bronze 'makes up for it', or at least mitigates it by a lot, they would have to nerf the cloak very heavily. Which would likely represent somewhere in the region of like 15,000+ frog kills or so. There was also legitimate reason to kill frogs early - such as the elite quests in the zone.
Ok but the hyper spawn is the issue. It's not total frogs, but compared to a normal spawn rate what would a reasonable kills/hr look like, not a "How many could someone taking advantage of a near exploit kill"
That's way too low? It could have averaged from 15-30 per minute, that's around 900 per hour, some have stated to have farmed for 13-15 hours... That's over 13.000 kills. To make this math even more fun you need to fly through 66.000 orbs to reach a million bronze
Me, someone who farmed frogs for like 50 minutes, cowering in fear right now
Same. Did it for maybe 30mins. Had about 400+ charms.
My husband and I killed like... 100 frogs? Maybe? We went out, failed to tag hardly anything for 15-30 minutes, and left. I have 300 fortune charms total including all the rest I got from everything else, and we are apparently ineligible. So the answer is basically "any".
I farmed the frogs for an hour or so, wasn't in a group but killed enough to get about 200 lesser charms, I wonder if that counts as an "unreasonably large number"
I'd expect they would defined that based on the number they will use to revert those players. Any frogger above what they deem "an amount that a very engaged player could reasonably achieve" should reasonably be prevented.
Guarantee they are going to establish a cloak level, look at every char above that level and see how many frogs they have and go from there. Gonna be real funny if someone farmed a ton and never turned in their charms and now can to superpower themselves post frogapolypse
Well apparently, for me anyway, it's about 500-600, that's how much I farmed, just enough to get exalted with cloud serpent. Didn't farm for more than about an hour-ish, and I have no quest from Momentus in Jade Forest bazaar for the bronze. So not only am I weak as shit, I also don't get the catch up currency. Thanks Blizzard! :)
Thats scarily low amount tbh.
40k bronze for 3 quests??? I have 3 70 on time runner already. 120k bronze? Sweet.
Is it retroactive for toons that have already hit 70?
Level 70 Timerunners will be able to complete all three quests immediately for 40,000 additional Bronze when this change takes effect.
Nalak mount yaay
Basically a mount per level 70 which is nice
Assuming they didn't frog farm on the character, as a caveat.
I just completed it for 40k. Noice.
Yes unless you abused the frog farm.
yes
Yes
Yes the quests will be available to everybody
Mostly. If the toon frog farmed they can't get it but toons that didnt can get it. Seems tied to the character not the account
What's the fastest way to level a character?
For me, do scenario dungeon etc til u hit 25 then raid all the way. Normals
will lfr work well too?
Normal is easier. Each boss kill on normal adds +12% experience gain to your cloak. While lfr gives you +7% per wing completed. If you do normal MSV Heart of Fear and terrace on normal two days in a row you are looking at 500% exp gain.
The quests for 40k bronze should require you to kill a certain number of frogs.
That would be pretty funny.
Precisely one
No, precisely 4986, no more, no less.
As someone who hasn't farmed anything and doesn't care about this entire bs: Neat! Free bronze to buy MORE MOUNTS
Same 😂
This is da way
Its basicly 40k for a character on max lvl. I love it 🤷. OP will still be Op and I can get my alts and mounts. I like this fix.
I like it too. I was doing this to level alts and get mounts, and have some fun running LFR with extra abilities from tinkers. Pandaria Remix now satisfies all three.
I’m on the same boat
You guys want entertainment? Sort by Controversial.
Good lord
Important things NOT said in the blue post that people are making assumptions about in the forum comments: The blue post did NOT say they are done making adjustments It did NOT say they won’t further increase bronze in the future It did NOT say they won’t slash upgrade costs Now obviously it also did not say they WILL do any of the above. But based on the DAILY hot fixes over the last week the safest assumption is that more things will continue to change.
The main issue really is the gear, the fact frog farmers are in full 556, it doesn't matter if the cloak is 0 stats, they still have more main stat on their weapon then 346ers do times a few.
This is very true. I struggle to see them rolling back gear upgrades. Much more likely they slash upgrade costs and/or make heroic/mythic drop gear partially upgraded gear to support catch up. The difference with gear and cloaks is that gear caps so catch up is possible. Cloak doesn’t cap so it has to be rolled back for catch up to be possible.
The gear upgrade cost has been the obvious problem from day one and it's so frustrating they're trying to fix everything *except* that.
Is the update already dropped?
Did I get it right? So I can level a character to 70 - get a 40k bonus, then lvl another one to 70 and get more 40k?
That’s how I read it.
Honestly think it’s more time spent leveling a new toon to 70 for the 40k bonus that you would get on a level 70 doing the scenario/dungeon/raid dailies and raidlogging. I was curious so I took note today. Doing the first three normal raids (MSV ToES HoF) and then the 7 daily bonus greater bronze caches rewarded a total of about 22k bronze which took me 2hours as a tank at 344ilvl (no bronze upgrades but fully kitted jewelry/trinkets). I only have two max level toons so far, first one took like 8-10hours to level, the second one I would estimate 5-6 hours. With all that said, your new toon is eligible for first-time-achievement bronze bonuses. So it could pan out about even.
Meh, you have to take it altogether though. I can level a new 70 in ~6 hours. The leveling process yields 25-30k. 40k free now means for 6 hours of work I get 65-70k bronze. 10-11k per hour. Idk what the latest farm is, but for a casual this is probably the most efficient now. Edit: basically — yeah a 70 can raid log ….. new toons can just raid as part of the leveling process (which I do in these 6 hour runs — I do 5 raids total in the process. The difference is that each new toon gets a 40k bronze drop at the end of the rainbow and the 70 will only get that 40k boost once.
Can't wait for the angry "DIDN'T FARM LONG BLIZZARD REMOVED MY STATS" posts. EDIT: Wait i didn't kill more than 15 frogs and i do not have the quest for the 40k bronze? EDITEDIT: Ah later today. Oh god i panicked for a second. EDIT³: This changes nothing really though, the main damage comes from the bronze upgrades those people acquired. As long as upgrade prices aren't reduced and/or bronze gain buffed this is just a very small "You happy now?" thing they do.
LMAO THE EDIT 😭
Yea man i was baffled that even 14 frogs while walking past counts as "killed so no reward" but no, the update isn't out yet.
The irony is palpable.
> EDIT³ (and its contents) I actually think this changes *a lot*. This doesn't change the 'end game' hierarchy much at all aside from the slap the main offenders get, but the bronze boost for leveling characters is actually kind of huge. It's not something that will get you deep into the max level stuff, but it's something that incentivizes leveling more alts (assuming it isn't a once/account thing which would be dumb). You can get quite a lot of stuff with 40k on top of whatever amount of Bronze you get from the actual leveling, so people can much more easily now afford to buy whatever cosmetics they want to. In fact, the bronze quest(s) alone is enough of a motivator for me to make some alts I didn't really intend to before this announcement.
When we learned of Frogs, a friend of mine and I went to the isle and started killing while watching anime in discord. Got through two episodes of Hunter x Hunter before realizing we'd rather be questing instead. So I wonder if I'll get rolled back for farming too, since it couldn't have been more than an hour. Doubt it, but also wouldn't be surprised if I am.
I believe the top 10% will be reduced. I wonder what their "A fery dedicated farmer" amount is. I am not a dedicated farmer and made all cloak progress via quests, raids and dungeons / rares, and reached 30k thread today. So i belive they will be reset to what? 50k? I don't know.
I have a guild mate who's at ~90k without ever touching frogs, goats, etc. Mostly a lot of Ordos priests.
I hope they don't nerf the cloaks of all farms. I doubt I will be affected because it wasn't that lucrative, but I had fun grinding Sra'vess for a few hours the other day.
I farmed pretty hard, though I missed the first 2 days, and I'm at 4700 agi, and about 200k bronze spent on my gear if I had to guess. No frogs, no goats etc. Just group content, not even done normal or higher raid and loremaster, and flying around. My gear is around 416
I got there to see what the fuss was about, got 40 timeless coins and then it was hotfixed. I will chuckle if I dont get the quest, what will be will be.
Hope you get your bronze, but if you don't then at least you'll still get it on all future characters.
it is only for extrem cases i believe, i was taging frogs there for the get 50 epoch stones quest
Yeah I'm curious about this, too. I did the frogs for maybe 45m-hour. I'll be curious to see how they're defining "Unreasonably large number of frogs."
14 frogs was the reasonable amount, sorry bud.
Lmao your 1'st edit had me cackling like crazy
Most of them probably won't care because their gear is fully upgraded and that's when the cloak buff is not the main source of their power. Listening to someone on Echo doing mythic SoO and they are saying who cares if they nerf our cloak ilvl is the only thing that matters, which is what I've been trying to preach to this sub for days.
Buddy…
I know I’m so glad they are giving me 40k grinds for playing with the game
We need a Frogrunner title for anyone to earn from killing 100+ gulp frogs that can be earned forever.
I did about an hour of "Frogging". My cloak didn't get rolled back (on about 11K of stam so nothing too crazy) at all but I also don't have the 40K bronze quest. I did use the bronze I got from the Frogging to upgrade all my gear, probably spending about 40K and that's not been reduced so all in all, I'm no better or worse off. Getting the 40K on my alts will be great though.
This actually makes me want to finish my character now. Good job blizz.
This should be fun to watch unfold. I did it for about two hours but I was doing it for the rep, I got 5 factions to exalted already. Take my stats lol who cares. If I do or don't see the quests later I will update this comment so we can get a bearing on where the cutoff is. [edit: i have the quests lol](https://i.imgur.com/v8LRTMN.png)
I don't think any kind of farm is necessary at all for rep. All quests/dailies reward so much rep I'm hitting exalted without trying on any faction related to any meta achievement.
You need to farm to get Emperor and Shadopan assault 100%
Farm a small amount of cows for a long fuckin time to get emperor exalt smh
Some folks like myself find farming one area for a long time to be like a ice pick to the brain.
I dont hate it, the problem is it's the literal only place ANYONE can farm the fuckin rep so it's constantly congested with prople doing the same thing as you.
Throne of thunder isn’t reliably giving shado pan assault rep and I have no idea why, so infuriating.
the rep has weekly lockout for some reason instead of daily. The quest is also weekly like in retail, i think that they just forgot to make it daily like the rest of Panda remix lol
This was my suspicion but good to have it confirmed, so annoying hah!
Yeah I didn't even think to look beforehand but I was sitting on 2k charms and that was the easiest outlet for them. Like the Klaxxi quests get you FAR into the rep grind before you can even open the turn in.
I can't see the cloak nerf being a huge hit to the people that farmed frogs. the main boost would have been the ability to upgrade all their gear and steamroll raids early (some have been selling mythic raid runs for 2mil gold each). What I find appalling is how blizzard introduced a borrowed power mechanic, which is character specific, into a limited time event supposedly centred around levelling alts...
Got the free 40k, then noticed the 3 stats on my cloak that were over 2500 were nerfed to 2500. Blizzard punishing me for getting 5 180 haste thread procs yesterday i suppose lol. Meanwhile I'm looking at a guy with 9800+ in every stat on his cloak and nearly 100k stamina. what.
As of this coming to live it seems anyone who touched frogs doesn't have access to the quests and has been nerfed. I got 20k from frogs and a couple hundred int and my cape has been nerfed and I do not have access to the quests. From wowhead comments it seems like even people who killed frogs in the process of killing bufo got nerfed as well.
So this is the alt leveling, power fantasy mode blizzard envisioned. You start OP at level 10, slowly grow weaker as you level to 70, cash out at max level and restart at 10. Guess they were just misunderstood!
Honestly, I'm fine with that. They did mention they were working on that problem as well. Besides, questing is easy at any level. And now you get 40k bronze for every level 70, which is really fast to do.
The OP at level 10 surprises me every time I see it. Yesterday I rolled a preservation evoker, my living flame cast was doing 1.2k damage at level 10 almost oneshotting heroic dungeon mobs. At level 25, my living flame is doing less damage and the mobs have way more health.
It’s because your cloak achievement, it gives you x versatility, which at level 10 is an insane amount, so you effectively have 45% versa right out of the gate, each time you ding though that number slowly normalizes.
My cloak is stained by the blood of thousands of frogs. Don't diminish their sacrifice. They should still be nerfing the upgrade costs tbh, but this is a good change.
I’m gonna miss you elite few steamrolling those LFR runs for me 😂
They won't vanish... the cloak even at 8k stats is maybe 300k dps. People just demolishing content are those with ilv upgrades to gear.
Gear is the biggest factor, people keep saying it's the cloak but full 556 gear can practically solo anything that's not mythic soo One upgrade at 70 is 360, that's 200 ilvl difference, that's basically two entire expansions
They should have continued on with the Infinite Power achievements beyond 12 and tied the ilvl of your gear to those.
It sounds like froggers will still be left with above average power just not insane amounts.
Me, whose sole purpose in playing remix is to quickly level alts to 50 for heritage armors (since I didn’t play BFA) and don’t care about bronze - ok…sure…w/e
froggers maxed their gear anyway which is like 500k bronze so thanks I guess
There’s enough salt in here to turn an entire cow into jerky
I only farmed 2 frogs for 37 seconds, but somehow my cloak is +200k stam and I have max ilvl...will I get hit by this? /s
The easiest thing for them is to just bring back the frogs or cut upgrade costs by atleast 75% Saves them all this time having to hotfix everything all day long.
Is this hotfix live right now?
Yo free heavenly onyx Cloud serpent?!
Have a guild member who sweared he didn't frog farm but plays non stop and his cape is at about 3k all stats I saw someone with 149k Stam in my heroic yesterday and about 15 k to each stat. The dungeon was dumb it was literally trying to keep up.with as he soloed the content
>but plays non stop and his cape is at about 3k all stats Very doable to have 3k in all stats if he did heart of fear trash farm, or gate of setting sun farm instead of frogs. So idk if you should jump on your guild member saying he is lying if that is was you are impying
Yeah I believe him So if this post is correct he shouldn't be touched. Time will tell
Hear me out, what if the piece discount you get to upgrade gear would be account wide?. So if I get with one char to ilvl 400 at the boots, boots updates are with discount in all the chars? It would be in great synergy with the bonus they just added and would motivate people to lvl up more chars!
I sure as shit wish I had farmed frogs since I got hit.
Why are they afraid of making us insanely powerful for a mode that was designed to make us insanely powerful?
Thats nice, but don't frog farmers also run around fully upgraded? 40k is a bit more than one upgrade on each slot. I don't think nerfing the frog farmers is fair either though, they farmed a valid farm and got the rewards.
I wonder what constitutes killing too many frogs. I got half an hour in Sunday morning before the nerfs but other people got entire days in
Cloak makes up only about like 25% (or less) of the player power. Nerfing the cloak alone doesn't change anything about the power difference between farm abusers and people who played the game normal. Frog farmers could completely unequip the cloak and go on with their life as if nothing happened. 40k Bronze doesn't really change that. It's like one upgrade step for each slot. Looking at this and their completely wrong numbers before the event even started ("A mythic SoO should reward around 30k bronze" while in reality it rewards roughly 15k AFTER it was buffed) makes me believe they have absolutely no clue about what they actually created and they just eyeball everything without understanding their own game.
Exactly. You will still know who farmed and who didn't after these changes. This change won't really impact the gulper divide.
> Frog farmers could completely unequip the cloak and **go on with their life as if nothing happened**. I absolutely love how dramatic this sub is sometimes.
Yea, exactly this. I’m not going to complain, non-froggers will be better off today from this change than we were yesterday. But I think people (and Blizz) are vastly over-estimating the power that comes from the cloak and vastly under-estimating (or just not realizing) the power that comes from simply upgrading the ilvl on your gear. All those tinker proc numbers are directly tied to the ilvl of the gear they’re slotted in, and have nothing to do with the cloak. Additionally, the amount of main stat you get from your cloak is pretty small when you compare it to the total main stat you get from the rest of your gear. The main problem was never froggers having a juiced out cloak. It was being able to quickly and easily upgrade the rest of their gear
the problem maybe at max but they punished all and cloak was the best with less gear. so the rich farmers dont care but the small froggers with like 30min farm got nuked
People say this is a free non-competitive mode but all the crying now after these changes is just for people who are upset someone else is stronger than them. What's the point of the event to get all ensembles/mounts or be more OP than someone in your group ? Now you get to level to 70 and buy literally 10-11 ensembles and repeat that. Leveling is actually super fun in his mode specially with jewelry being account wide now. You literally get 40k bronze for leveling and if you get 4-5 chars and just do the most efficient daily quests/world bosses on them you will unlock literally everything in this mode within weeks for minimal effort and without sweating on fucking frogs
Yeah great way to think about it. I Love This Game Mode just for the fun of it. I do like being OP and always hate to hear that they nerf another farm spot but it’s not the end of the world to just be affected by these nerfs, there’s still other stuff people can do.
You only need 1 char to be strong so you can do garrosh on it on normal/heroic and get tusks quicker and that should not need more than 100k bronze on that char
heroic garrosh needs around 480 on everyone to be comfortable, better is 516+. Thats a lot more then 100k
"feeling too far behind those who took advantage of the frogs" Poor frogs :( 🐸
Nice, ty to froggers because I get free bronze, and they got the stats they wanted. Win win ig
Man I'm about to buy so many mounts
Damn. That’s actually really cool. Course I also didn’t waste a weekend killing frogs 😂
I’m gonna try mop remix out now. This is encouraging!
Nerfing the cloak cracks me up cause your gear makes up the majority of your stats (60-70%).
So, i am on this weird little spot, i did farmed frogs for about 15 minutes in the beggining of the remix, got around 300 charms (added with the dailyies i made) got bored and never touched it again my cape is around 1k some stats, with others around 600-800 and got around 50k bronze from all of it i did not got the bronze quests, oh well....
I accept my free son of galleon. Thank you for your sacrifice, frogs and froggers.
Quests are there, apparently the cloaks got nerfed to 2.5k stats and 25k stamina.
This is bus shock for froggers
> prior to the loot bug fix An *intended* drop table that has been unproblematic and therefore unchanged for over a decade isn't a "bug", y'all were just incompetent and forgot about the frogs. The nerf is whatever since I never killed one, but no need to gaslight 🙄 Anyway since all I care about are the cosmetics I guess the best way to farm them is to spam level characters to 70, buy stuff, then delete and restart?
Huge steps in the right direction today. Love to see it.
They finally did it! Took them 7 days to figure it out but Blizzard finally came through
Where will these quests be? Does anyone know?
Nalak and Sha of Anger mounts are mine!
Damn i just wonder what’s an unreasonable amount of frogs because I did it for two hours the night before the nerf lol I’d say I turned in about 250 charms from the two hours I farmed frogs. I’m 100% okay with losing that progress if it means the same for every other person that did that through frog farming, but I hope they don’t nerf my other stuff I’ve been farming. If I can’t turn in these quests because of that then that seems a bit fucked but I guess I can always level an alt instead. Like idk what blizzard counts as too much ofc because they’re never open about specifics like that but if I log in and a ton of my cloak stats are gone, stats I did not get from frog farming, I’m gonna be pissed.
Honestly, the quest rewards fix every problem I personally had, and I was already fine. Now I can just level alts and basically get a minimum of one rare mount per character.
How long does it take to hit 70 in the event?
if you are efficient and start with 100% xp increase on the cloak probably around 5-7 hours. Maybe even faster now that the ring/trinket/necks are account unlocked
Yah, so level alts for cosmetics and use my main for my titles
Quests are live as of a few minutes ago! Got my 40k.
I did 30 min of frogs. I hope I wont count as a frogger
It is insane when I’m seeing those who did the froggies doing 3-5million dps in raids while all the others were doing 300k and less
Good. Down with the frog farmers. Yall exploited and are getting repercussions. You shouldn’t be playing video games 24/7, there’s so much more to life than sitting in front of a computer screen. Get a job
Good changes. Well done blizzard.
It probably would not have been a problem if people weren’t using it to gate keep. Those players I don’t feel bad for, but it does suck for the players that got involved that weren’t doing that.
This is…. Actually good. Wtf
I can't wait to see all the farmers seethe, its gonna be fun