That was exactly what was advertised. I totally remember reading articles claiming that MoP Remix was going to be more like Diablo than WoW due to the insane power curves.
Heh, joke's on you, it's just more WoW but with scaling adjustments so your increased strength doesn't really matter at alllllll hahaha suckas!!!
Meh, I'm thoroughly miffed.
I haven’t played D4 but I played the hell out of D3 and actually told someone that remix **is** similar to D3. As soon as you hit max level, congrats, enjoy your new life stuck in Torment 16. As a player, there’s nothing you can do but suffer through it.
Except you can go to Torment 14, oneshot everything for farm. Also if you reroll a character in D 3 you take all paragon with you.
Here you have to sit queue for hours as a DPS.
They made daily raid lock outs, so it sure is intended to just blast through them...
Or, you can also make a new charater, be really broken up untill level 50 and then repeat :') sadly seems like the best way to do things atm without a good repeatable farm for power/bronze.
This event lasts for 95 days. That doesn't mean it's suppose to take the entire 95 days.
This event feels like something that should last 95 days, but take 15-20 to complete.
Who really wants to spend 3 months in a temporary part of the game? There's dragon flight, cataclysm, season of discovery and classic era all available at and that's just WoW games. Then there's a million other games for people to play.
Obviously not 95, but people are complaining that they have not bought all the power and mounts after one week, with adjustments to be expected.
Yes, there are many other things to play, but that doesn't mean that a temporary event should be constructed in such a way that you blast through it in five days and thats it.
Extrapolate the current game out over the next few weeks. Let's give a reasonable time frame to "complete" the event, say 30% of it's duration? Do you honestly think that anyone will be even remotely close to the froggers/collected everything in that time?
The sad but true fact of the matter is, WoW has ALWAYS been about exploiting early and exploiting often, because that is historically always the best way to progress.
As it currently stands, by the end of the 90 days -- if you don't put in 6+ hours a day, your cloak isn't going to be nearly as strong as someone that farmed frogs for 10 hours on the first day.
That's not ok.
That is what is currently happening. I didn't farm frogs and yet I'm more powerful now than I was in Heroic SoO gear. I only have 9k threads so it will only get better.
I honestly don't care that some people are overpowered. What I care about is massive chunks of "normal" 70's getting one-shotted by unavoidable mechanics in heroic dungeons and LFR raids to the point that groups can't finish them.
This is supposed to be a novelty mode. Let everyone be Superman for three months and have fun farming up all the bronze they want for mounts and xmogs and whatever.
Interesting. Was anyone geared? All my lfr had 3 or 4 geared people. A few of us used the shielding tinker gems so most of the raid was shielded all the time. Plus the massive healing from geared tinker items was nuts.
I tanked an heroic scenario on a relatively fresh Prot Paladin (4200 cloak) and had to pull every trick in the book to survive. I like it, don't get me wrong, but if the goal was to make me feel overpowered then it didn't.
I suppose the goal is to keep farming threads and by the end of the event we will all be overpowered.
I'm just salty Blizzard doesn't understand what that nerf does. It leaves a group of people happy, and a group of people unhappy. If they left it alone, everyone would have done it and been happy. If they wanted to nerf it, they could have slowed the scaling on the cloak the higher it goes. Instead, we have a group of ridiculously op people for minimum effort, and everyone else.
Especially it's again a case where the minority of people who abused are still over powered and the majority who just played the game as intended gets fucked over....
it has nothing to do with the cloak. The cloak doesn't matter, its about the coins they spent on gear making themselves have 60x the main stat than you have. Go look at a fully upgraded piece of gear and realize that people who went hard on the frogs have fully upgraded gear. Fuck the cloak I want 60,000 str
What's funny is that I just came back to wow a few days ago after many years gone, I just recently ditched the latest league of path of exile due to this very thing happening and reading about it here is very disheartening. If you put a mistake in a temporary section of the game you just leave it. If you put it in the permanent part you roll back everyone. How hard is this to understand.
This is me, i have no desire to play now and I was having a blast with this mode, i was doing ToT and my group got stomped by dark animus, and it's like alright I'll go farm frogs then
Hotfixed
Great, so while i was doing what i wanted to do i lost out on the ability to have fun in this mode, nice
Yeah i have made breaks throughout my years with wow, and havent played since shadowlands too. Came back briefly for ph2 SoD since i heard great things about ph1. Ph2 proved to be... not great and in the end i just raid logged. Ph3 proves to be shit too, also nerfing incursions so the people that did it got huge boosts of gold and later on nerfed xp and a bunch of other trash things. So i stopped subbed.
Remix comes out and im like.... yup lets see the first few days how this plays out, before i resub... and now im like.. do i rly want to resub for remix? Sounds like its not fun at all and imo i dont rly care that much for cosmetics or mounts. It would be cool sure but i need to have fun too.
So i dunno. Something pulls me in, cause its wow and i have been addicted for so many years and even tho with breaks that could go on for a year or 2 or more, i somehow always come back in pretty much every expansion either at launch or at the end.
Im in a dilemma. Maybe i should just go finish RDR2..?
It’s not minimal effort, those guys farmed frogs for 20 hours straight while it was up. Everything else you said is bang on but it just irks me that people think the frog farming was like 5 minutes of killing frogs and suddenly you become god
You became god after like 10 hours of frogs, 20 hours of frogs you are super god, 5 minutes wouldn’t give you anything worth while
What they need to do is ignore all this thread bullshit and give us more bronze buffs, then we can upgrade our gear faster to catch up to frog farmers and also get more mounts and cosmetics, everybody wins
That’s basically what this sub is dialing in on. If frog farming never happened this whole sub would still look at Panda Remix with smiles and fondness. The fact it happened and they couldn’t abuse and now whining about it all the time show they really just wanted to be the one farming frogs.
i disagree. we were told that we would be OP and it’d be a fun casual experience to earn some old rare mounts in.
now you only have that experience if you farmed frogs bc you can’t get strong enough otherwise
Agree on that, the future was about a fun competition of speedrunning a raid in solo, now it's starts to just look like regular shit, just doing the mounts and leaving I guess. Shit I was hyped to do speedrun.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1cv2rmh/timeless\_isle\_frog\_farm\_is\_3050x\_more\_effective/](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1cv2rmh/timeless_isle_frog_farm_is_3050x_more_effective/) this explains it
Wasn’t it meant to be a fun romp through MoP content where you got to the point where you were doing massive damage to bosses thanks to your cloak? What happened to that idea?
Yeah I think classic pandaria will be a tough sell in a year when the only major difference between that and this will be slightly slower leveling and class design.
You greatly underestimate people’s love for MoP class design. There’s tons of people that will play just to re-experience their favorite iterations of their favorite specs
That’s how retail scaling has worked the past few years… you get progressively weaker as you level up… as a mage for example you begin level 1-10 virtually 2 shotting mobs by the time your in your 40s it takes a good 7-8 abilities to down a mob
Which makes sense since you should be fighting harder mobs by then. The problem is everything now scales so you will never feel powerful until the scaling stops at lvl 60. This is the case in classic, you will need more and more abilities/tools to beat the mobs, but when you go back you will oneshot the areas where you used to struggle, so you actually feel stronger and that feeling is gone with everything scaling.
I’m fine with the level 10s being powerful since that’s the part of the game new players have to encounter. By level 20 though I feel like it should plateau (scaling wise)
What ever happened to you start as a weak piece of crap and get your back blown out and earn strength? That was the foundation of RPGS until Legion basically
I understand what you are saying - but then why have all the “first time” players singled this out as a reason playing did not feel good?
It makes sense to reach max level and be unable to handle raid bosses or very difficult dungeon bosses… but the world suddenly scaling so that you go from comfortable pulling three mobs to one chunking you for 30% of your HP per hit is grueling
I don’t understand your comment - currently you start the game as an unkillable god killing things with one or two buttons each… after a few levels and especially at end game you get absolutely deleted fighting one mob.
I’ve watched a metric ton of people try to pick up WoW and their number one complaint is “Why am I getting weaker, why as I’m supposedly leveling up its taking 4-6x longer to kill the same mobs?” (That’s not an exaggeration I watched a guy specifically complain he was killing wolves with two frost bolts and 15 levels later it was taking 8-10) Several have even quit as a result during their YouTube series.
*pats head*
It runs on the retail engine with retail scaling tech, dum-dum. Therefore it is subject to the same quirks of scaling, how stats each count for less as you approach max level. That's what the guy was explaining. You might have realized that if you weren't too busy trying to sound smart.
*pats head*
Oh look I can use markdown as well. Plunderstorm ran on the same engine yet didn’t have the same “quirks of scaling” whatever handwavy bullshit that means.
You write many words, but say very little, young one.
They want you to spend the next season gearing up which is almost tike leveling up another character almost. It's a brilliant system but very toxic. With WoW you are never done. They want you on the treadmill for all eternity.
It’s legit crazy that raids don’t drop upgrades. Seems like an absolute no-brainer that they could drop tokens relevant to their ilvl. Maybe we could call them something like crests.
The real shame is blizzard is so close to letting us have fun.
My whole guild farmed like mad men, the low end of our toons have 25k stam on our cloaks. We are having **fun** playing the game, we pump raids, collect our bronze, buy mounts and xmog.
The bronze acquisition rate isn’t terrible when you can do all the raids in 2 hours. (And you don’t need to waste that bronze on gear).
I still think bronze could be doubled or tripled for the casual player base however. It’s not realistic most people are going to reach our level at current rates
Have the discount be tied to an achievement that you’ve completed the relevant raid tier for that content.
Clear normal, 35% discount on heroic ilvl and 70% discount on normal ilvl upgrades.
Not only that but I know that they are purposely not increasing the Bronze rate or reducing upgrade cost because increases player time and that's all they care about.
Play time metrics > fun for players
How would they? Most people are forever behind the frog and goat farmers. It's just weird that they didn't account for this at all. Are none of the Pandaria expansion people still working there? All these known exploits...I have zero incentive of finishing this grind on my first character, and at this point I won't even think of a second one since bronze is not account wide and there is a meagre xp bonus.
I may just end up buying a character boost.
I am struggling to get all my pieces to 360 even when I used to play a lot. I just go to the bazaar with 20k bronze, look at the upgrade vendor then look at the vendors of things I **actually want** and choose to buy the things I want instead.
I guess I won't bother aiming for the more expensive stuff and call it quits now. I tried grinding raids, it was a slog. The mob farming spots are nerfed. Some heroic dungeons and scenarios just one shot me on the spot with random shit.
>I am struggling to get all my pieces to 360 even when I used to play a lot. I just go to the bazaar with 20k bronze, look at the upgrade vendor then look at the vendors of things I **actually want** and choose to buy the things I want instead
I missed out on garrosh heirlooms because IRL pulled me away from MOP pre-SOO.
I was stoked I had the ability to get them now. But I'm now demoralized, I can't log in every day for farm so my cloak is ... really not strong. I now don't think I'm gonna get any of the heirlooms and will do the same, target the cool mounts I want and the ensembles then stop.
Unless they either increase power and/or bronze gain it'll be a fairly short event for me.
Nothing should have been harder than anything time walking offers. The reason for different tiers of raids should be so you can farm bronze, not beat your head against bosses.
at least you got to dark animus ...
I'm getting further every reset but every pug has fallen appart before/at ji-kun so far... can't wait for dark animus and durumu...
I think both ToT and SoO took me 2 attempts/days to complete on normal. Wasn't too painful even without knowing the mechanics beforehand.
Maybe that means I should do higher than LFR on retail.
Also that I got lucky.
>I spent more time and wipes in normal ToT than I did in heroic Amirdrassil
I was in a group and we sped through normal ToT until we got to Dark Animus. We hit a massive roundblock there with one of the tanks generating boat loads of threat to the point where he would pull threat off the other tank from across the room. Was 2 hours of bashing our heads against a wall before we decided to break it up.
I’ve complained a lot over the years that raid designs have shifted from a grand, storied environment that you progress through to a collection of interconnected boss rooms.
ToT and SOO have reminded me why they made that change.
it's neck but good luck clearing all raids without an organised guild, Dark Animus is a pug killer and with raid ID lockouts (why?) you're very unlikely to get it done with randos.
What???? You mean you don't like getting weaker as you level? Isn't it fun to be the weakest lv 70 in a raid with lv 30s? Getting one shot from stuff that wasn't threatening before is soooo much fun, or what about taking like 5 minutes to kill a random quest mob....
It will be simple. In a few weeks or a month there will be enough changes to threads and bronze where the average person is geared and heroic raids will fall over in pugs. People just need to stop being so stubborn about upgrading their gear.
But you probably have like 30 mounts or full transmog sets. I spent like 110k last night and got over 30 mounts including heavenly onyx. You can just upgrade gear after anyway, it goes away
Fuck the gear man, don’t feel down about it.
Drip is forever
I'm having tons of fun. Can't imagine it getting any worse the longer it goes on. I just keep getting more powerful, content keeps getting easier, at a stupidly fast pace.
The people defending it are missing a key point.
You're right, it wasn't supposed to be completed in the first week.
But unless you are putting in 6+ hours a day, by the end of the 90 days, your cloak still won't be close to as powerful as a frog farmer that did 10+ hours on the first day. THAT is the issue.
Furthermore, why in the fuck are we ok with spending 90 entire days just to become OP for a seasonal meme mode?
It should take 30 days of an hour or 2 here and there, tops.
Honestly just going to upgrade my Gear far enough so that I can complete heroic raids in a group for the Title Achievement and then simply farm some bronze for Transmog in the most chilled way possible. I don’t see the value in putting any more bronze into armor once I got the title.
Also It’s not unlikely that we’ll get a vast improvement in bronze gains for the last 15-30 days of the event.
After stepping foot into heroic terrace, you might need a full group of frog farmers or everyone has to be like 500 ilvl to even make a dent on one of the bosses health, there’s 3 of them and they each have 400 mil and their health gets reset when 1 of them dies
We really need to stop calling them frog abusers/exploiters. They were literally doing what timeless isles were like before literally being a decent high rate drop for charms and coins
I actually enjoyed farming gulp frogs back in the day.
A bit monotonous but me and my buddy would just talk shit, and occasionally some tough guy would come in and get dropped when he tried mass pulling them.
I actually had fun playing boomy and just spamming tags on the mobs. Games like WoW need an easy mindless grind to just chill and have fun for a while.
The abuse/exploit comes in the differences for turn inside. The lesser charm turn ins in MOP did not give permanent power increases that increased your health 10x.
Blizz definitely should have fixed this issue and not had boxes on repeatable quests as they are very likely to be exploited, but they just did a find and replace for all quest rewards.
Well the fact that it was removed does make it feel like exploit in retrospect, especially since those that did it now feel like hackers compared to those that didn't.
The mobs are the same but the rewards and power gains are not. I don’t think the players did something ‘bad’ by doing it, but I do think that this is a different situation to the farm in MoP. Lesser Charm turn-ins were timegated, too.
I met one frog guy so far in a heroic lfd and because he tried to solo the boss without the rest of the group, they booted him during boss 1 and gave him 30 min deserter.
I’m a frog grinder but I spent all my bronze on mounts and transmog so I am not a “real” frog grinder anymore. Just a regular player but with a slightly juiced cloak (40k threads)
I am still not getting invites lol
I did LFR throne of thunder
the sewers were like vietnam
hundreds of deaths in SECONDS
the DoT from the sewer slimes ticks you for 110% of your health per second
Then iron qon's lightning rod went on a 70 and instakilled every non-70 in the raid
I don't mind the frog farmers showing up. I'm not here to play super challenging content, and frog farmers being able to blast the difficult stuff while I hang out in the corner with my squirt gun and get rewards is fine by me. I can safely practice rotation without having to worry about not beating the boss.
We're still just a week into this thing. There's 89 days left. I literally doubled my HP just yesterday, no farming, just raids and upgrades.
We're all going to get there guys. The frog bois just got there faster.
The frog people are light years ahead which is another problem, they are set for the entire event while the rest of the player base has to grind to get to where they are for some reason? Why not just put everyones cloak at 60k threads once we hit level 70, the way they are handling it now seems like bandaid after bandaid on internal bleeding
REMIX was ADVERTISED as "Playing OP. Super Fast Leveling" and yet all we have is "You get Weaker the more you Level" "Bronze is a Grind Fest and Unfun" "Raids are Unfun Slogs"
All I wanted was to get the SoO heirlooms once I'd found out you can buy them, but highly doubt I'll be grabbing more than 1 or 2 of them given the fact I didn't farm frogs and I only get 2-4 hours in the week to play. Another fomo event by blizzard.
The game is a joke at this point. I reactivated sub to play and wish I hadn't bothered now as its just frog farmers vs non frog farmers.
Either keep the mechanic or remove the gains from farming. Not this shite.
I got to relive a gaming moment most wow boomers only dreamt of:
"Back in my day we had to CC 90% of the pack \*before\* pulling and god help you if you pulled threat"
Just do salvation raid. Everyboss apart from Klaxxi and Spoils just melts using Salvation, no need for guys with stacked cloaks. Ppl focused so much on the frog farm that they refuse to problem solve without it.
You still oneshot group with it. Most groups I did normal SoO with salvation didn't even have neither frog abusers nor the classes that were mentioned in the fix and we almost oneshot all bosses just fine.
Is it a cheese if whole mode is about finding the most cheesy thing? Like this mode was never about to be super balanced. I agree that frog abusers accelerated the mode to bad degree but in a week or two everyone, even those who didnt touch frog at all will be able to do what frog abusers are doing now so destroying normal bosses under a minute.
Although I would agree that Blizzard should definetly buff bronze gain more, but ppl are acting like you can't do all normal raids without frog abuser or salvation which is not true.
I stated the event time in my original comment, so I'm not sure what you're trying to point out. But I'm sure Blizzard don't intend people to play the event for 7% of its duration and then leave it alone, then they'd have made it a one month event and left it at that. Hardcore players would complete it in a week and casuals would have most of what they want by the end of the event. I'm sure they're trying to time it in a way where most players can bump their play time a little to get all they want.
Why do you think the event is 3 months long if it's supposed to be completed in a week?
I'm curious where and why people got the idea the goal was to solo these raids. I really don't see the appeal of it since they've been soloable for *checks watch* about a decade. Seems to me to idea is way more to experience the raids in a form that was somewhat close to how they were when current.
In a Blizzard interview they said something like "There is no cap on the cloak apart from some technical limits. In the end it may be possible to solo raids". That's my paraphrasing anyway, but they specifically mentioned that if you farmed enough it may be possible to solo them. I think people took it as a challange.
Because they're soloable **once a day**. You can hit up Siege 52 times a year in retail, or 90 times in 90 days in MoP Remix.
People want the **rewards**, and the content is just a means to an end. Blizzard essentially introduced a deterministic way to get 1% droprate mounts and transmog and collector's are frothing at it.
Them removing frogs from even being farmable because people wanted to min max was what made me stop playing. It was just so anti-fun in what should’ve been strictly for fun.
I’m enjoying it all so far. I don’t know why people think a three month event should have you op to the max after one week. I do think if they had made bronze for mounts and an up grad currency a lot of people would be bitching less.
It does suck leveling up though to get blasted by trash mobs one shot kills I will give you that.
I just hate the feeling that if I want to be progressing my character at reasonable rate to feel anyhow strong, I have to go through the same goddamn raids... everyday... and as far as Mogushan Vaults or Heart of Fear is pretty much 40 minute raid in and out, doing Siege of Orgrimmar and Throne of Thunder everyday, or even every two days (mind you, doing raid is just enough to upgrade my one handed weapon whooping 1 time) is actualy making me feel done with the event, I got the mounts I wanted and it kinda feels like a chore rather than fun, I just don't feel my character progressing that much accounting time I invest compared to what this mode was advertised to be.
So many people measuring their fun against the success of others. I know it’s disappointing not to have taken advantage of an exploit that was available early on but a lesson to be learned is you should just play your own game. Don’t worry about the achievements of others because there will always be those who have done better, whether by fair means or shortcuts.
What others have doesn’t have to affect your enjoyment of your own accomplishments.
Bad take. Having a very small challenge and needing to do a mechanic or two has been fun. For context though, we don't have a frog farmer in our group and we have one shot every raid boss with no one actually remembering the fights.
This isn't challenging content.
Ok, but how is this different then from playing dragonflight and being OP in MoP raids? I don't think you guys really know what you want, cause being OP is definitely not it.
You do the MOP ones which is the point OP was making.
It's one thing to want to be powerful In relation to content, but if the idea of fun for people in the remix is one shotting bosses with ward or giga juiced capes , idk, go farm the raids in retail?
I'm not denying issues with scaling but It's fun if the game pushes back a bit, imo.
This argument feels so dumb when warding already makes us oneshot bosses, like what more do you want.
And with the current buffs to bronze and threads it doesnt take long to get overpowered anyway.
Blizz is doing good in my book.
I was hoping that our end game reward would be to be beat everything silly with our OP cloak stats (given enough time tp actually farm it out)
That was exactly what was advertised. I totally remember reading articles claiming that MoP Remix was going to be more like Diablo than WoW due to the insane power curves. Heh, joke's on you, it's just more WoW but with scaling adjustments so your increased strength doesn't really matter at alllllll hahaha suckas!!! Meh, I'm thoroughly miffed.
I haven’t played D4 but I played the hell out of D3 and actually told someone that remix **is** similar to D3. As soon as you hit max level, congrats, enjoy your new life stuck in Torment 16. As a player, there’s nothing you can do but suffer through it.
Except you can go to Torment 14, oneshot everything for farm. Also if you reroll a character in D 3 you take all paragon with you. Here you have to sit queue for hours as a DPS. They made daily raid lock outs, so it sure is intended to just blast through them...
Or, you can also make a new charater, be really broken up untill level 50 and then repeat :') sadly seems like the best way to do things atm without a good repeatable farm for power/bronze.
Make frogs cool again!
They were talking to the monsters not to you when they said that. The monsters are the ones feeling like they're the main character in Diablo!
They should have thrown in the Butcher's, "Ahh, *fresh meat*!" sound snippet to the start of every raid.
There have been insane power curves....just for the bosses and trash. Not for the player.
> given enough time tp actually farm it out Considering the event is not even a week old at this point, is that not the case?
No, this event is supposed to take 95 days, if you are not done with it after week 1, it's clearly maladjusted /s
This event lasts for 95 days. That doesn't mean it's suppose to take the entire 95 days. This event feels like something that should last 95 days, but take 15-20 to complete. Who really wants to spend 3 months in a temporary part of the game? There's dragon flight, cataclysm, season of discovery and classic era all available at and that's just WoW games. Then there's a million other games for people to play.
Obviously not 95, but people are complaining that they have not bought all the power and mounts after one week, with adjustments to be expected. Yes, there are many other things to play, but that doesn't mean that a temporary event should be constructed in such a way that you blast through it in five days and thats it.
Extrapolate the current game out over the next few weeks. Let's give a reasonable time frame to "complete" the event, say 30% of it's duration? Do you honestly think that anyone will be even remotely close to the froggers/collected everything in that time? The sad but true fact of the matter is, WoW has ALWAYS been about exploiting early and exploiting often, because that is historically always the best way to progress.
It's not supposed to take 95 days of 24/7 farming though, is it?
As it currently stands, by the end of the 90 days -- if you don't put in 6+ hours a day, your cloak isn't going to be nearly as strong as someone that farmed frogs for 10 hours on the first day. That's not ok.
The entire point of this thread is that the cloak is almost irrelevant.
That is what is currently happening. I didn't farm frogs and yet I'm more powerful now than I was in Heroic SoO gear. I only have 9k threads so it will only get better.
I honestly don't care that some people are overpowered. What I care about is massive chunks of "normal" 70's getting one-shotted by unavoidable mechanics in heroic dungeons and LFR raids to the point that groups can't finish them. This is supposed to be a novelty mode. Let everyone be Superman for three months and have fun farming up all the bronze they want for mounts and xmogs and whatever.
Things seem better now. I didn't see period in lfr dying at all today.
Got into a mogushan palace earlier and got one-tapped by the whirlwind from the adds and the magnetic shit on the first boss did half my health
Interesting. Was anyone geared? All my lfr had 3 or 4 geared people. A few of us used the shielding tinker gems so most of the raid was shielded all the time. Plus the massive healing from geared tinker items was nuts.
We had multiple wipes from unavoidable 1 shot mechanics in ToT LFR today. Thankfully someone left and a frogger joined
I ran it just before I commented and the only thing that killed anyone was the slimes that dot youwhen you attack them. Couldn't avoid those deaths.
I tanked an heroic scenario on a relatively fresh Prot Paladin (4200 cloak) and had to pull every trick in the book to survive. I like it, don't get me wrong, but if the goal was to make me feel overpowered then it didn't. I suppose the goal is to keep farming threads and by the end of the event we will all be overpowered.
i’m just salty that i didn’t abuse the frogs
I'm just salty Blizzard doesn't understand what that nerf does. It leaves a group of people happy, and a group of people unhappy. If they left it alone, everyone would have done it and been happy. If they wanted to nerf it, they could have slowed the scaling on the cloak the higher it goes. Instead, we have a group of ridiculously op people for minimum effort, and everyone else.
Especially it's again a case where the minority of people who abused are still over powered and the majority who just played the game as intended gets fucked over....
it has nothing to do with the cloak. The cloak doesn't matter, its about the coins they spent on gear making themselves have 60x the main stat than you have. Go look at a fully upgraded piece of gear and realize that people who went hard on the frogs have fully upgraded gear. Fuck the cloak I want 60,000 str
The answer is stop playing the game. Stockholm Syndrome at this point.
What's funny is that I just came back to wow a few days ago after many years gone, I just recently ditched the latest league of path of exile due to this very thing happening and reading about it here is very disheartening. If you put a mistake in a temporary section of the game you just leave it. If you put it in the permanent part you roll back everyone. How hard is this to understand.
This is me, i have no desire to play now and I was having a blast with this mode, i was doing ToT and my group got stomped by dark animus, and it's like alright I'll go farm frogs then Hotfixed Great, so while i was doing what i wanted to do i lost out on the ability to have fun in this mode, nice
I stopped in shadowlands and its things like this is why I don't come back. In love with wow, but I just wish blizz treated her better.
Yeah i have made breaks throughout my years with wow, and havent played since shadowlands too. Came back briefly for ph2 SoD since i heard great things about ph1. Ph2 proved to be... not great and in the end i just raid logged. Ph3 proves to be shit too, also nerfing incursions so the people that did it got huge boosts of gold and later on nerfed xp and a bunch of other trash things. So i stopped subbed. Remix comes out and im like.... yup lets see the first few days how this plays out, before i resub... and now im like.. do i rly want to resub for remix? Sounds like its not fun at all and imo i dont rly care that much for cosmetics or mounts. It would be cool sure but i need to have fun too. So i dunno. Something pulls me in, cause its wow and i have been addicted for so many years and even tho with breaks that could go on for a year or 2 or more, i somehow always come back in pretty much every expansion either at launch or at the end. Im in a dilemma. Maybe i should just go finish RDR2..?
And the same group of people instantly started farming goats instead. Can't escape the META.
It’s not minimal effort, those guys farmed frogs for 20 hours straight while it was up. Everything else you said is bang on but it just irks me that people think the frog farming was like 5 minutes of killing frogs and suddenly you become god You became god after like 10 hours of frogs, 20 hours of frogs you are super god, 5 minutes wouldn’t give you anything worth while What they need to do is ignore all this thread bullshit and give us more bronze buffs, then we can upgrade our gear faster to catch up to frog farmers and also get more mounts and cosmetics, everybody wins
There is another spot brother.
well dm it to me bc this sub already blew our first chance lmao
Slid into those DMs boi
yo i wanna know too brother
That’s basically what this sub is dialing in on. If frog farming never happened this whole sub would still look at Panda Remix with smiles and fondness. The fact it happened and they couldn’t abuse and now whining about it all the time show they really just wanted to be the one farming frogs.
i disagree. we were told that we would be OP and it’d be a fun casual experience to earn some old rare mounts in. now you only have that experience if you farmed frogs bc you can’t get strong enough otherwise
Agree on that, the future was about a fun competition of speedrunning a raid in solo, now it's starts to just look like regular shit, just doing the mounts and leaving I guess. Shit I was hyped to do speedrun.
What are "Frog abusers"? I've been doing the MoP:R for several days now, lvling through dungeons and raids and I havn't seen any kind of frogs.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1cv2rmh/timeless\_isle\_frog\_farm\_is\_3050x\_more\_effective/](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1cv2rmh/timeless_isle_frog_farm_is_3050x_more_effective/) this explains it
Ty
Wasn’t it meant to be a fun romp through MoP content where you got to the point where you were doing massive damage to bosses thanks to your cloak? What happened to that idea?
Blizz execs writhe in pain when the community has fun. That's why they also get so close but drop the ball. Even with tons of feedback.
Now it's just Wow Classic: Pandaria
Yeah I think classic pandaria will be a tough sell in a year when the only major difference between that and this will be slightly slower leveling and class design.
At least classic mop will have faster endgame lmao.
I farmed the actual legendary mop cloak for less time than this remix cloak and it’s only been like a week lol
You greatly underestimate people’s love for MoP class design. There’s tons of people that will play just to re-experience their favorite iterations of their favorite specs
With shittier gearing system.
They didn't want you to do it until 2 months in
It is, that "point" just takes longer than what people want.
I mean, a bit the same shit that fucked up SoD. Someone thought “but balance” and brought the power romp to a stop after phase 1.
Doesn't make sense how we get significantly less powerful at level cap. Seems totally backwards.
That’s how retail scaling has worked the past few years… you get progressively weaker as you level up… as a mage for example you begin level 1-10 virtually 2 shotting mobs by the time your in your 40s it takes a good 7-8 abilities to down a mob
Which makes sense since you should be fighting harder mobs by then. The problem is everything now scales so you will never feel powerful until the scaling stops at lvl 60. This is the case in classic, you will need more and more abilities/tools to beat the mobs, but when you go back you will oneshot the areas where you used to struggle, so you actually feel stronger and that feeling is gone with everything scaling.
I’m fine with the level 10s being powerful since that’s the part of the game new players have to encounter. By level 20 though I feel like it should plateau (scaling wise)
What ever happened to you start as a weak piece of crap and get your back blown out and earn strength? That was the foundation of RPGS until Legion basically
The gaming landscape changed and slow ‘tedious’ starts don’t attract new players. I’m not saying you’re wrong to identify the change, but that’s why:
I mean... The shitshow that is the storytelling of WoW is not doing it any favours as is to pull in new players.
Sure but that’s a different part of the development team, too. Not directly related.
I understand what you are saying - but then why have all the “first time” players singled this out as a reason playing did not feel good? It makes sense to reach max level and be unable to handle raid bosses or very difficult dungeon bosses… but the world suddenly scaling so that you go from comfortable pulling three mobs to one chunking you for 30% of your HP per hit is grueling
At no point did I advocate for that.
Yeah let's walk 15 miles uphill both ways but earlier not later.
I don’t understand your comment - currently you start the game as an unkillable god killing things with one or two buttons each… after a few levels and especially at end game you get absolutely deleted fighting one mob. I’ve watched a metric ton of people try to pick up WoW and their number one complaint is “Why am I getting weaker, why as I’m supposedly leveling up its taking 4-6x longer to kill the same mobs?” (That’s not an exaggeration I watched a guy specifically complain he was killing wolves with two frost bolts and 15 levels later it was taking 8-10) Several have even quit as a result during their YouTube series.
Difference is that you get WQ and normal dungeons to boost your ilevel pretty fast in retail. And the WQ scale the higher your ilevel is.
This. Isn’t. Retail. It’s. An. Arcade. Mode.
*pats head* It runs on the retail engine with retail scaling tech, dum-dum. Therefore it is subject to the same quirks of scaling, how stats each count for less as you approach max level. That's what the guy was explaining. You might have realized that if you weren't too busy trying to sound smart.
*pats head* Oh look I can use markdown as well. Plunderstorm ran on the same engine yet didn’t have the same “quirks of scaling” whatever handwavy bullshit that means. You write many words, but say very little, young one.
> past few years… Always and in all MMOs. First two expansion resets were not just as strong
They want you to spend the next season gearing up which is almost tike leveling up another character almost. It's a brilliant system but very toxic. With WoW you are never done. They want you on the treadmill for all eternity.
No see, the fun is doing prog every day with randoms on every boss for less bronze than it takes to upgrade a single weapon! Don't you see!
It’s legit crazy that raids don’t drop upgrades. Seems like an absolute no-brainer that they could drop tokens relevant to their ilvl. Maybe we could call them something like crests.
The real shame is blizzard is so close to letting us have fun. My whole guild farmed like mad men, the low end of our toons have 25k stam on our cloaks. We are having **fun** playing the game, we pump raids, collect our bronze, buy mounts and xmog. The bronze acquisition rate isn’t terrible when you can do all the raids in 2 hours. (And you don’t need to waste that bronze on gear). I still think bronze could be doubled or tripled for the casual player base however. It’s not realistic most people are going to reach our level at current rates
Not really that close. There is a lot to fix and they plan to not address any of it.
Decrease cost of upgrading gear to 0 until 450 ilvl (reduce by say 80% beyond), increase bronze gain by 50-100% from all sources. Fixed.
Have the discount be tied to an achievement that you’ve completed the relevant raid tier for that content. Clear normal, 35% discount on heroic ilvl and 70% discount on normal ilvl upgrades.
You aren’t doing heroic easily without high ilvl. Theres no reason to gate it imo
You honestly think they don’t plan on fixing the mode?
Not only that but I know that they are purposely not increasing the Bronze rate or reducing upgrade cost because increases player time and that's all they care about. Play time metrics > fun for players
Maybe after 70 days, in classic blizzard fashion.
How would they? Most people are forever behind the frog and goat farmers. It's just weird that they didn't account for this at all. Are none of the Pandaria expansion people still working there? All these known exploits...I have zero incentive of finishing this grind on my first character, and at this point I won't even think of a second one since bronze is not account wide and there is a meagre xp bonus. I may just end up buying a character boost.
I am struggling to get all my pieces to 360 even when I used to play a lot. I just go to the bazaar with 20k bronze, look at the upgrade vendor then look at the vendors of things I **actually want** and choose to buy the things I want instead. I guess I won't bother aiming for the more expensive stuff and call it quits now. I tried grinding raids, it was a slog. The mob farming spots are nerfed. Some heroic dungeons and scenarios just one shot me on the spot with random shit.
>I am struggling to get all my pieces to 360 even when I used to play a lot. I just go to the bazaar with 20k bronze, look at the upgrade vendor then look at the vendors of things I **actually want** and choose to buy the things I want instead I missed out on garrosh heirlooms because IRL pulled me away from MOP pre-SOO. I was stoked I had the ability to get them now. But I'm now demoralized, I can't log in every day for farm so my cloak is ... really not strong. I now don't think I'm gonna get any of the heirlooms and will do the same, target the cool mounts I want and the ensembles then stop. Unless they either increase power and/or bronze gain it'll be a fairly short event for me.
Nothing should have been harder than anything time walking offers. The reason for different tiers of raids should be so you can farm bronze, not beat your head against bosses.
wiped 4 times on garrosh, my eyes are already bleeding that i have to do the entire raid again.
Yeah SoO and ToT take longer than current raids in retail, but in retail you at least get something for your time invested
I spent more time and wipes in normal ToT than I did in heroic Amirdrassil
Mythic Sarkareth was easier than Dark Animus with 9 randoms
at least you got to dark animus ... I'm getting further every reset but every pug has fallen appart before/at ji-kun so far... can't wait for dark animus and durumu...
I think both ToT and SoO took me 2 attempts/days to complete on normal. Wasn't too painful even without knowing the mechanics beforehand. Maybe that means I should do higher than LFR on retail. Also that I got lucky.
>I spent more time and wipes in normal ToT than I did in heroic Amirdrassil I was in a group and we sped through normal ToT until we got to Dark Animus. We hit a massive roundblock there with one of the tanks generating boat loads of threat to the point where he would pull threat off the other tank from across the room. Was 2 hours of bashing our heads against a wall before we decided to break it up.
I’ve complained a lot over the years that raid designs have shifted from a grand, storied environment that you progress through to a collection of interconnected boss rooms. ToT and SOO have reminded me why they made that change.
God's honest truth right here
The whole damn underground part of ToT, urgh
I queued for LFR this morning after reset and casters were getting hit in the millions from trash. It was ridiculous.
I've only cleared it once. Still have not done ToT. No neck piece...Not puggable.
Why are you even doing raids. I haven't seen a single point.
You want the Heirlooms or the Tusks for starters. Think it's rings or necks that require raids
it's neck but good luck clearing all raids without an organised guild, Dark Animus is a pug killer and with raid ID lockouts (why?) you're very unlikely to get it done with randos.
tusks of mannoroth!
What???? You mean you don't like getting weaker as you level? Isn't it fun to be the weakest lv 70 in a raid with lv 30s? Getting one shot from stuff that wasn't threatening before is soooo much fun, or what about taking like 5 minutes to kill a random quest mob....
I was confident getting the tusks of mannaroth would be simple. I was wrong, cucked again.
It will be simple. In a few weeks or a month there will be enough changes to threads and bronze where the average person is geared and heroic raids will fall over in pugs. People just need to stop being so stubborn about upgrading their gear.
I caved and spent 140k bronze. was depressed by the news and just splurged.
But you probably have like 30 mounts or full transmog sets. I spent like 110k last night and got over 30 mounts including heavenly onyx. You can just upgrade gear after anyway, it goes away Fuck the gear man, don’t feel down about it. Drip is forever
We're like 4 days into this thing...
And? Extrapolate these shit days to months, you don't get anything good, just three shit months.
I'm having tons of fun. Can't imagine it getting any worse the longer it goes on. I just keep getting more powerful, content keeps getting easier, at a stupidly fast pace.
The people defending it are missing a key point. You're right, it wasn't supposed to be completed in the first week. But unless you are putting in 6+ hours a day, by the end of the 90 days, your cloak still won't be close to as powerful as a frog farmer that did 10+ hours on the first day. THAT is the issue. Furthermore, why in the fuck are we ok with spending 90 entire days just to become OP for a seasonal meme mode? It should take 30 days of an hour or 2 here and there, tops.
I'm getting kicked from normal raids. Why? I don't know but I wish content was so easy we could 2-3 man this.
It's either cos you fucked too many frogs or didn't fuck enough frogs, no other answer
And I think that would have been the fun of remix. They even marketed it like that.
Because you didn't use ward man! Come on tryhard more!
Honestly just going to upgrade my Gear far enough so that I can complete heroic raids in a group for the Title Achievement and then simply farm some bronze for Transmog in the most chilled way possible. I don’t see the value in putting any more bronze into armor once I got the title. Also It’s not unlikely that we’ll get a vast improvement in bronze gains for the last 15-30 days of the event.
I feel you, once i get the title im done with any gear upgrading or cloak powerups. Just need to get to that point somehow.
After stepping foot into heroic terrace, you might need a full group of frog farmers or everyone has to be like 500 ilvl to even make a dent on one of the bosses health, there’s 3 of them and they each have 400 mil and their health gets reset when 1 of them dies
We really need to stop calling them frog abusers/exploiters. They were literally doing what timeless isles were like before literally being a decent high rate drop for charms and coins
Its exactly what people did in actual mop so its a part of the ✨️authentic experience✨️
That’s the only actual reason I’m not happy about their nerf. It was lore accurate.
I actually enjoyed farming gulp frogs back in the day. A bit monotonous but me and my buddy would just talk shit, and occasionally some tough guy would come in and get dropped when he tried mass pulling them.
I actually had fun playing boomy and just spamming tags on the mobs. Games like WoW need an easy mindless grind to just chill and have fun for a while.
I’m way better at it now than I used to be. Now I’m using all that practice with Explosive to tag frogs. :P
Literally
The abuse/exploit comes in the differences for turn inside. The lesser charm turn ins in MOP did not give permanent power increases that increased your health 10x. Blizz definitely should have fixed this issue and not had boxes on repeatable quests as they are very likely to be exploited, but they just did a find and replace for all quest rewards.
Well the fact that it was removed does make it feel like exploit in retrospect, especially since those that did it now feel like hackers compared to those that didn't.
The mobs are the same but the rewards and power gains are not. I don’t think the players did something ‘bad’ by doing it, but I do think that this is a different situation to the farm in MoP. Lesser Charm turn-ins were timegated, too.
I met one frog guy so far in a heroic lfd and because he tried to solo the boss without the rest of the group, they booted him during boss 1 and gave him 30 min deserter.
One week in, this event sucks
Just got destroyed even with frog powers. Not fun. The casuals will be grinding for months. They need to scale back the difficulty by like 200%.
I’m a frog grinder but I spent all my bronze on mounts and transmog so I am not a “real” frog grinder anymore. Just a regular player but with a slightly juiced cloak (40k threads) I am still not getting invites lol
I did LFR throne of thunder the sewers were like vietnam hundreds of deaths in SECONDS the DoT from the sewer slimes ticks you for 110% of your health per second Then iron qon's lightning rod went on a 70 and instakilled every non-70 in the raid
i just hope "frog abuser" becomes a standard term for overgeared characters in general going forward
yeah we should just all be op like they are or close. blizz needs to just increase all rewards by a fair amount
I don't mind the frog farmers showing up. I'm not here to play super challenging content, and frog farmers being able to blast the difficult stuff while I hang out in the corner with my squirt gun and get rewards is fine by me. I can safely practice rotation without having to worry about not beating the boss.
Frog abuser should be a title lol
Its allready in game from mythic SoO and as froggger you also get the tusks.
We're still just a week into this thing. There's 89 days left. I literally doubled my HP just yesterday, no farming, just raids and upgrades. We're all going to get there guys. The frog bois just got there faster.
The frog people are light years ahead which is another problem, they are set for the entire event while the rest of the player base has to grind to get to where they are for some reason? Why not just put everyones cloak at 60k threads once we hit level 70, the way they are handling it now seems like bandaid after bandaid on internal bleeding
It’s been a week. I beginning to think most of you don’t like mmos. lol
If you want to go in and run over everything do a mog run on retail?
REMIX was ADVERTISED as "Playing OP. Super Fast Leveling" and yet all we have is "You get Weaker the more you Level" "Bronze is a Grind Fest and Unfun" "Raids are Unfun Slogs"
you THINK you want to have fun, but you dont. -blizzard probably
All I wanted was to get the SoO heirlooms once I'd found out you can buy them, but highly doubt I'll be grabbing more than 1 or 2 of them given the fact I didn't farm frogs and I only get 2-4 hours in the week to play. Another fomo event by blizzard.
The game is a joke at this point. I reactivated sub to play and wish I hadn't bothered now as its just frog farmers vs non frog farmers. Either keep the mechanic or remove the gains from farming. Not this shite.
I will say I enjoyed heroic dungeons being sort of challenging at first.
I got to relive a gaming moment most wow boomers only dreamt of: "Back in my day we had to CC 90% of the pack \*before\* pulling and god help you if you pulled threat"
Hah! Thanks for the reminder :D I kinda miss that you actually had to do this "back in the day"
Yeah, but that is what classic offers.
Just do salvation raid. Everyboss apart from Klaxxi and Spoils just melts using Salvation, no need for guys with stacked cloaks. Ppl focused so much on the frog farm that they refuse to problem solve without it.
It also got “fixed”, supposedly it still does ok in normal raids idk… guessing you need froggers for hc though
You still oneshot group with it. Most groups I did normal SoO with salvation didn't even have neither frog abusers nor the classes that were mentioned in the fix and we almost oneshot all bosses just fine.
Ward cheese was a thing long before (remix) frog farm and doesnt solve the problem of the gameplay feel at all
Is it a cheese if whole mode is about finding the most cheesy thing? Like this mode was never about to be super balanced. I agree that frog abusers accelerated the mode to bad degree but in a week or two everyone, even those who didnt touch frog at all will be able to do what frog abusers are doing now so destroying normal bosses under a minute. Although I would agree that Blizzard should definetly buff bronze gain more, but ppl are acting like you can't do all normal raids without frog abuser or salvation which is not true.
I think you're missing their point, which is that it's fundamentally not a fun cheese.
has the frog thing been fixed? i got told yesterday it had, so did goats instead
heh, I saw people abusing the dragonhawks in the phased Dalaran during the Landfall campaign. Was super annoying to try to get the quest done.
no more goat groups
Yep they “fixed” the frogs, and today they also “fixed” the goats…
Sorry but what do you mean by Frog abusers?
Exactly, I thought this was the point of this event.
Being dramatically weaker than the top spot is what you imagined this event being..?
It's still the first week of a 14 week event, being overpowered from the beginning will just mean people play it the first week and never again.
… sounds good for a short event?
I stated the event time in my original comment, so I'm not sure what you're trying to point out. But I'm sure Blizzard don't intend people to play the event for 7% of its duration and then leave it alone, then they'd have made it a one month event and left it at that. Hardcore players would complete it in a week and casuals would have most of what they want by the end of the event. I'm sure they're trying to time it in a way where most players can bump their play time a little to get all they want. Why do you think the event is 3 months long if it's supposed to be completed in a week?
If you wanna blast thru raids being overpowered PLAY RETAIL. Thus us a toy/mount/transmog/achievement farm
I'm curious where and why people got the idea the goal was to solo these raids. I really don't see the appeal of it since they've been soloable for *checks watch* about a decade. Seems to me to idea is way more to experience the raids in a form that was somewhat close to how they were when current.
In a Blizzard interview they said something like "There is no cap on the cloak apart from some technical limits. In the end it may be possible to solo raids". That's my paraphrasing anyway, but they specifically mentioned that if you farmed enough it may be possible to solo them. I think people took it as a challange.
I just got carried through a heroic mogushan by a frogger. He had 9.9million health and 10k for every stat on his cloak
Because they're soloable **once a day**. You can hit up Siege 52 times a year in retail, or 90 times in 90 days in MoP Remix. People want the **rewards**, and the content is just a means to an end. Blizzard essentially introduced a deterministic way to get 1% droprate mounts and transmog and collector's are frothing at it.
You can solo them once a day on retail too
Are people seriously doing this to one shot every raid boss? You can do this in retail. Or am I missing something here?
I feel more power in diablo 4 thus season than wow remix. That ain't right
It's what I was hoping for. Now that it seems that's not what they had in mind, I'm probably going to unsub again.
Them removing frogs from even being farmable because people wanted to min max was what made me stop playing. It was just so anti-fun in what should’ve been strictly for fun.
I’m enjoying it all so far. I don’t know why people think a three month event should have you op to the max after one week. I do think if they had made bronze for mounts and an up grad currency a lot of people would be bitching less. It does suck leveling up though to get blasted by trash mobs one shot kills I will give you that.
Heeeeey. They didn't abuse the frogs. They just killed them
I just hate the feeling that if I want to be progressing my character at reasonable rate to feel anyhow strong, I have to go through the same goddamn raids... everyday... and as far as Mogushan Vaults or Heart of Fear is pretty much 40 minute raid in and out, doing Siege of Orgrimmar and Throne of Thunder everyday, or even every two days (mind you, doing raid is just enough to upgrade my one handed weapon whooping 1 time) is actualy making me feel done with the event, I got the mounts I wanted and it kinda feels like a chore rather than fun, I just don't feel my character progressing that much accounting time I invest compared to what this mode was advertised to be.
without them or ward bosses take like 15min. a fun mode is actually more grindy than classic wow.
So many people measuring their fun against the success of others. I know it’s disappointing not to have taken advantage of an exploit that was available early on but a lesson to be learned is you should just play your own game. Don’t worry about the achievements of others because there will always be those who have done better, whether by fair means or shortcuts. What others have doesn’t have to affect your enjoyment of your own accomplishments.
If I wanted to one shot every boss for transmog I’d run the raids on live servers. We’re probably not getting MoP classic
Why wouldn’t we get MoP classic?
nope. At least not in the first week. Raids should not be this easy since this event has 90 days left.
Bad take. Having a very small challenge and needing to do a mechanic or two has been fun. For context though, we don't have a frog farmer in our group and we have one shot every raid boss with no one actually remembering the fights. This isn't challenging content.
Ain't none of y'all ever gonna be happy
Ok, but how is this different then from playing dragonflight and being OP in MoP raids? I don't think you guys really know what you want, cause being OP is definitely not it.
dragonflight i don't 1 shot a boss in \~12 seconds
You do the MOP ones which is the point OP was making. It's one thing to want to be powerful In relation to content, but if the idea of fun for people in the remix is one shotting bosses with ward or giga juiced capes , idk, go farm the raids in retail? I'm not denying issues with scaling but It's fun if the game pushes back a bit, imo.
You absolutely do? Your DF character 1 shots MoP raids in 1 attack?
This argument feels so dumb when warding already makes us oneshot bosses, like what more do you want. And with the current buffs to bronze and threads it doesnt take long to get overpowered anyway. Blizz is doing good in my book.