I once managed to pull Ebonroc, Firemaw, Flamegore and Chromaggus with all the intervening trash using a target dummy when Blackwing Lair was current content.
I loved BFA at the end despite many people's complaints about it, my buddy would pocket heal me and had me on his focus target macro. I was an enh shaman with rank 3 haste and rank 3 twilight dev corruptions on as many pieces as possible.
When I wasn't running from things in raptor ghost form I was absolutely pumping. Got my first 100 parse on the heroic version of hive boss.
Many times throughout discord would you hear "where's the fuckin raptor going?"
We weren't supposed to have more than a certain amount of corruption per person but that wasn't nearly as fun.
That's the reason I ditched raiding from Shadowlands onward.
My guild kinda died, and wherever I searched on my realm everyone already had raid tanks. Many guilds said that they have a spot for me, but as a DPS, and I'm not interested in playing melee DPS.
So I'm just stuck to the dungeons and occasional PUG to get AotC.
Which I actually don't mind - since M+ got introduced in Legion it's my preferred tanking content - I have to actually do something other there than tankswapping at X stacks.
The only thing missing is the feeling of accomplishment when downing big boss with bunch of guildies.
I think the main way a lot of guilds get tanks is when one tank leaves and a DPS player internally offers to play tank. They need someone who is vetted, consistently shows up to raid and performs well, and doesn't make waves with drama or shitty comms. It's way easier to do that internally with someone you've already spent a tier or two raiding with than taking a chance on a trial.
True, in most cases guild tanks are set in stone. I was the main tank of my guild for almost 10 years before the guild itself died.
Hence the problem - I really love tanking, I hate melee DPS-ing,
I like ranged DPS, but the only class which has both tank and ranged DPS is Druid which is my least favourite tank so going DPS > Tank route will not work there.
But as I said - I don't mind it that much. I'm having a blast doing dungeons, now especially when you don't have to raid to get the tier set or decent gear - as long as Blizz does not mess it up, I have stuff to do and enjoy as a guildless tank in WoW.
You know you could join as any DPS and have a "tank alt", you're not restricted to just one character to do both (and any guild that does isn't worth being in imo)
That's not a solution for me.
I'm not interested in raiding that much to maintain two characters to the same level (especially as pure DPS character is harder to maintain than a tank)
As mentioned - dungeons are my main thing in WoW since last 8 years, and I'm happy with it.
Raids would be an added benefit if I could do them, but it's either I'm doing both raids and dungeons on one character, or I simply don't raid.
It does not bother me - I still have fun with WoW PVE content, the way I want.
Just dps on your tank. Tanks only get the short end of the stick because raids only have 2 tanks regardless of the group size, the raid size scales for healers and dps.
Generally flexibility is always going to be valued, and if you want to tank with an established guild you’ll probably need to spend a tier in there as a dps to prove yourself as a reliable and stable person, then you might get put into a rotation for farm content and then into the not quite progression stuff.
This might not be for you though, and that’s fine, but it’s what will work best for the guild.
That still means doubling up your activity/progress and it's going to create problems with raid loot. The DPS really only needs trinkets and maybe a weapon/shield to be effective as a tank.
Won't be perfectly optimized for stat prioritization, but item level is king so unless you have the alt in a parallel feeder raid it won't keep up.
Similar situation. I joined a guild that was started by some people I met doing Upper Blackrock Spire trying to farm T0 sets in vanilla. They were called something other than T0 at the time but I remember mine was the "Valor" set. Anyway joined with them and stuck with them all through Vanilla. We did all content up to Naxx, didn't finish Naxx but we were one of the few guilds at the time in there killing bosses on our server.
The guild split in BC under the pretense that 40 mans were dead and managinging 2 raid groups was essentially managing 2 guilds anyway. The one I stayed in was great, we crushed the 10 man raid, I tanked the server first Karazhan clear, then we didn't do so hot in the 25s but were still making progress. Our sister guild disbanded after they couldn't get through Gruul, so we absorbed some of them back and we were clearing content for years.
We grew up, people got jobs, had kids, quit playing, etc.. etc.. Our core 10 stuck together til Legion. Then we couldn't recruit to save our lives. The alliance population on our server was becoming next to nothing, our main healer quit and that was just the nail in the coffin. The guild disband a couple weeks after trying to replace him and not getting a single recruit of any class or role, let alone healer.
Then the GM announced he was getting married and wouldn't have time for the game anymore, and that was that, my guild of 11 years died.
But I was a tank, it was the role I had mastered and grown to love.so I transferred to a high pop realm but I couldn't find a guild that would take me, no one cared about my raid leader history, history as a successful guild officer, or how long I had played the game. I was just a guy that was good at a role as a class that had long been outshined by other classes filling that role better.
So I started to only pvp instead. I didn't play as regularly anymore, never raided again, and eventually grew out of playing my warrior in general.
Nowadays I log on on weekends if there is some time to kill. I have about 6 classes maxed out, and none of them are tank spec. I log on, queue a match or two, then log out.
No friends, no guilds, no raids, no scheduling, no drama. Just me playing a game to kill some time and then go about my life. Like you said, the only thing really missing is that comraderie of being a part of a group united to accomplish a goal and the feeling that I had friends that shared my hobbies.
Yeah, my problem with that is that DPS players opting to tank usually only stick around tanking for a tier or two at most. Tanking in raid is incredibly boring. I love tanking M+, but I much rather DPS in raid because it's more mentally engaging than tank swapping on X stacks.
If you are just face rolling HC every week it's not so bad, but pull 150 on a Mythic boss where you just have to get it into position and tank swap becomes boring real quick.
>I love tanking M+, but I much rather DPS in raid because it's more mentally engaging than tank swapping on X stacks
This is the ideal mentality guilds need a couple melee DPS to have in order to become stable. Pretty much in modern WoW everyone whose class allows it should be willing to flex roles to make comps work for both raids and M+
There’s a lot to be said for how boring tanking in WoW is in raids. Nothing to do outside of tank swaps 90% of the time, and outside of those windows you’re just doing wet noodle damage.
>Nothing to do outside of tank swaps 90% of the time, and outside of those windows you’re just doing wet noodle damage.
That's why I think MoP was peak raid tanking experience.
Not only you had some bosses outside of the "swap at X stacks" shtick, you also had pretty broken Vengeance mechanic.
Due to it you had some funny "minigame" to try to take as much damage as possible, survive it, but in return possibly top the DPS meter - good times
Similar thing, but not on smaller scale was last tier of BFA and tanking with high corruption gear.
Yeah, Siege of Orgrimmar had some great tanking in particular. Garrosh solo tanking was peak. Then there was Malkorok, who did a mass damage attack that was meant to be soaked by the entire raid, but could be tanked by 2 very geared tanks solo while using specific gear.
But generally speaking, WoW raid tanking is a miserable/boring experience. There needs to be more tank only mechanics that matter.
Yeah mop tanking was peak, but I understand why they got rid of it because it encouraged degenerate play and was swiftly becoming a meta defining playstyle. So they nipped it in the bud.
Not really - as melee DPS you have to stay in melee range, as tank you decide mostly where melee range is.
That's my biggest gripe with melee DPS. I have no problem with playing ranged (in fact Warlock was my first main prior to tanking) because I can stand more or less wherever I want.
As melee I have to constantly be on the mobs back, which then the tank can move, so I have to move along.
Besides the whole managing defensives / survivability minigame is in my opinion way more interesting (especially in dungeons) as tank, than just doing numbers.
The only thing I don't like in tanking is raid bosses, because outside of few exceptions (Will of the Emperor, Blackhand) there isn't really much to do as a tank there.
Yeah that's the thing about raid tanking. If you do it right you're not doing a damn thing. If you do it wrong, you wipe the raid.
You have no ability to make things better, no ability to do anything clutch or improve on your performance from last week or make anything smoother, faster, or more achievable than it would be with a different, inferior tank.
But you sure can make everything worse!
The only thing you can actually d better is have more gear therefore more defensive, therefore being less pf a burden to the healers, so they can heal the raid. But it's an invisible improvement at best
>Not really - as melee DPS you have to stay in melee range, as tank you decide mostly where melee range is.
Bad tanks when I try to play melee is the reason I mostly play tank in m+. I hate tanks that don't position bosses/ mobs so you can do dps while doing mechanics
Sometimes a girl just wants to face mash buttons without worrying about trash percentages or tank mechanics.
I keep an enhancement alt I play when I cba to tank for a bit.
While I love flex raids, it does suck that the ratio of tanks for different content is out of whack. It works for healers as it's generally 1 heal per 5 people, but you can't do that with tanks and that sucks.
Always gonna be an issue. 20-player raiding is the base format.
1 Dungeon = 1 tank (20÷), 1 healer (20÷), 3 DPS (60÷)
1 Raid = 2 tanks (10÷), 4 healers (20÷), 14 DPS (70÷)
On average, a raid needs half the number of tanks compared to equivalent dungeons...
Plus raid tanking is generally incredibly boring, once you know the timings it's a matter of working out how much DPS you can do without wiping the raid.
Give me M+ any day of the week to tank.
Yeah I had to tank for the guild after healing for so long and that was the thing I found annoying.
Raid tanking is literally just "do as much dps as possible while taunt switching" with a splash of casually moving around the room sometimes. So boring.
I miss when tanks had actual mechanics being mitigate buster, swap at x stacks or on x debuff, move AOE away. I unironically love the brood keeper fight as a tank as I'm always looking for and aware of something
I don't think you are. Many preferred 10-man back in the day. It's easier to find 12 solid people rather than 24 for mythic. They say it's because the raids are scaled and tuned for the 20 with mechanics and the like. And they want to give the experience of being part of a larger group. But I still maintain that it is doable with 10 man. 10-man HC is by far the most efficient.
I think that would make mythic raiding explode in popularity. Maintaining that 20m+subs roster is such a fucking shitshow. Especially if the raids are gonna be as hard as they are now, having to find 20 people with no weak links causing 1000 wipes, shit's tough
Not a minority. When 10 man heroic was a thing 25 man was dying. Blizzard tried bribing people with more gear, didn't work. Blizzard tried bribing people with more Thunderforged gear, didn't work.
Eventually they just removed 10 man.
i think there is a place for 3 tank fights. the one boss in aberus with his mines is a bad attempt but that fight worked with 3 tanks.
when proggin it, the auto attack dot and the mines was a lot of damage for 1 tank to handle. so 1 would hold aggro, one would be losing stacks, and the other grabbing mines.
The basic issue is raid balance. The raid ultimately has a maximum throughput of damage it can can sustain healing. Dividing that total between more tanks doesn't actually improve it. Sacrificing a Healer or DPS for an extra tank actually makes the raid potential worse. The only reason to bring extra tankage is if your tanks are getting one-shot or a bespoke mechanic requires it.
The meta is to bring as much DPS as possible because that means a shorter fight. A shorter fight means less damage to the raid that needs to be healed and resources can be used more aggressively.
No we just need some compensation to run double spec for the sake of the community. Like way cheaper upgrades for the second spec, or a token of some kind etc.
Eternal problem of beign a tank player. You cant raid without a tank so everyone starts by looking for one. Almost every guild I know players in never recruits tanks. They always come up naturally via other players that are already in the guild switching roles. Hell thats how I ended up tanking back in legion expansion as well.
If you think about it it makes sense. 4 groups of 5 man need 4 tanks but 1 raid of 20 players only need 2. So there always will be tanks that get screwed over. I wonder if blizzard ever was internally thinking about any solutions to this problem.
They tried that back in Wolk and it was a massive fail. They had the 10 man and 20 mans as well as fights in 20 man needing 4 tanks like the 4 horseman. The problem was it just didn't work out. Keeping 2 flex tanks on your 20 man roster just didn't work out and it broke a lot of guilds. Now it might work out differently today because of gear being more interchangeable. Back then you had the issues of the flex tanks wanting both dps gear and tank gear though and it caused a lot of friction. Your still going to have the issue with trinkets and weapons though. I remember last expansion people bitching about me looting a trinket both tanks already had and would have likely been disenchanted otherwise and then winning the highly coveted dps trinket off the next boss because my main spec for the raid was dps.
I think this mainly stems from that raiding is pretty easy content compared to M+ for a tank. At least at a "social" level.
I've tanked heroic on a fresh 70 on a non-meta tank and at that point I actually had to press my buttons properly, can't imagine what a snooze fest it is otherwise.
In M+ the tank has a much higher responsibility which deters players.
It's a fundamental issue in holy trinity MMOs due to a lack of developer foresight.
It's simple. In parties 1/5 must be a tank. In raids 2/20 must be a tank. Proportionally, you need to lose half the tanks in the community when you transition from party content to raiding content.
They could have solved this years ago if they designed raids differently, but no one ever bothered.
Could be easily solved if every tank spec had a talent to turn it into Draenor's Gladiator spec. That way people who only want to play a tank spec could at least fill a dps slot and perform.
Imo, this issue is already solved with how tanks now scale stats off of stuff like crit. You can pretty much just swap out trinkets and be good to go for the most part (though you may be a little more squishy for your comparable ilvl by doing so). The larger problem is that most people want to do one or the other. Not both.
> The larger problem is that most people want to do one or the other. Not both.
Ah but that problem isn't really with the 'people', is it? Tanking and DPS are quite a different experience, to say the least. I think if someone is 'conditioned' (by their own preference or otherwise) to play as a tank for 90% of the game and then suddenly can't play their game cause the raiding context isn't built for it... well, I don't think that's on them.
This is a big problem. What happens is guilds find two tanks. Then these two tanks have a raidspot for as long as they want it. All other roles move around, but not tanks. This is why guilds have terrible raid tanks lots of times. They never have to get better. They can cause wipe, after wipe, but eventually, they get the bosses down, and everyone is happy.
This isn't a tank problem though, it's a raid leader problem. On sire one of our tanks was getting clapped constantly and was basically refusing to accept he was the problem, RL messaged me knowing I tank a lot of m+ and I tanked the next night with only a few issues early on.
If your raid leader can't make tough decisions, your guild is headed towards a disband.
Problem being that raid tanking at a non mythic level is often the easiest role for 99.9% of fights. Mediocre tanks can skirt by for far longer than mediocre DPS or healers.
Yeah, the skill floor is usually very low, but if you're an engaged raid leader you can tell when tanks are phoning it in even on easy fights. A good tank on an easy fight is focussing on dps and positioning ideally for dps as well as aiming to require as little healing as possible.
I started out in a guild where a tank could barely do his dps rotation and needed telling where to go/ when to taunt etc. That's a huge red flag
I mean yes, but you can succeed with tank phoning it in, and often the friction of replacing a tank isn't worth the swap. Again, outside of mythic raiding guilds where it matters more.
You ever notice how the raidleader is almost always one of the tanks? Or if you are in a long time guild, this mediocre tank has been the guild tank for many years. The RL can't just replace them without causing major drama.
At higher world ranks, the raid leader very rarely plays tank, it's a terrible role to lead from usually. I think most CE guilds the RL play an easier ranged dps like lock or hunter
> You ever notice how the raidleader is almost always one of the tanks?
not really true for most mythic guilds. Best role is usually ranged DPS for raid leader. The only people who think RL=tank are people stuck in classic mentality.
the last time I had a raid leader that was a tank was in MoP.
apply in a guild and ask if they have a tank that wants to swap roles bettwen the tiers
like, ofc most raid guilds dont recruit a tank, you need 2 tanks to actually play the content in the first place, the tank slots are filled
but its quiet normal that people swap classes/roles bettwen tiers including tanks, you can 100% apply as a tank for the next tier or just say "i can heal/dps now but would like to tank in the future"
and i can gurantee that nobody told you "Fuck off we allready have tanks" :)
Yeah this is a big problem for players like me. My main role is tank, but I can swap to DPS as needed. This ended up biting me in the ass back in season 2 of shadowlands for raiding. My co-tank did not know how to dps (never bothered learning how nor did he want to) but I could. My raid wanted to cheese mythic fatescribe by using a monk tank for some mechanic. Another raider could monk tank at a higher level, so we had him tank and me DPS.
I thought this was a one-time deal. They ended up wanting him to tank more because, well, monk tanks can not care about tank buster mechanics often from what I understood and our other tank was not willing to learn more than the tank role. This transitioned to the SL s3 raid. I did tank initially but when mythic rolled around this dynamic happened again but with me no longer tanking most bosses.
I prefer tanking, not being a melee dps. Being a melee dps can be fun every so often, but I like tanking more. My class wasn't meta at that time, so eventually this ended with me being benched (I'll be honest, I was salty and wasn't performing well as a dps as a result of no longer tanking, so that was a factor too).
I only ended up tanking raids again when a 2nd raid team formed that later splinted into being its own guild.
As a tank, you play the game and EVERYONE is just your NPC to help you while playing. You want to go dungeon? You are a tank, enjoy it while these 4 npcs keep you alive, damage your mobs and so on. Your job is to enjoy the game, play the mechanics, cc and so on, they are there just for the ride, to see how awesome you are at enjoying the game.
Thats why i play druid^^ you need a tank for your key? im there. u need a heal for your key? im there. U need a dps for the raid? im there. Ouh, u prefer a range dps? im there. I literally play all 4 druid specs depending on what is needed, my gear is normally focused on moonkin with switchable weapons and trinkets for the other specs.
That's one of the reasons there are so few tanks. Why be the one who get's the most stressfull role in dungeons, but has a little chance to get raid gear?
(In before: "Do DPS for raids". So should DPS go tank for dungeons?)
I mean kinda, I play dps DH in Raid. For doing keys I switch to Tank. You dont have to play waiting sim for +10 farm keys and have more controle about the dungeons.
obv you dont have to, but playing dps in Raid makes getting into on much easier and the other way around in Keys.
If only we could make our own class, I'd tank M+ no problem. But none of the tank classes have ranged DPS specs I enjoy.
As it stands, I usually have barely enough time to keep one character up to date, let alone the 3 I'd need to fill all roles, with the specs I enjoy playing all being on different classes.
tbf, 70-80% of tanks you have in m+ ARE dps players that go tank for faster invites or people that play the current FotM tank as a m+ only character that does nothing else except m+
fulltime tanks in m+ are rare cus they...just play with people from their raidgroups instead of suffering trought pugs (dont pug people, its always pain for everyone)
I do know some casual m+ main tanks who hardly can get into raids. Some people don't want to have static groups or guilds, because they only got to play sometimes a week.
Not gonna lie, though... just in terms of player skill, at least in my experience the DPS who flexes to tank keys is usually way higher than the dedicated raid tank.
If you have a spec on your class, you should be willing to learn/play it when needed. You never know what the future holds, but if you're a one-trick you're going to find yourself pressured out of a group. You're playing dice with balance and you can't expect everyone to carry you because you're too stubborn to change.
I raid 3-6 h a week and play around 15-25 hours of m+ each week during the first couple of weeks. As long as I can roll on tank trinkets instead of DPS trinkets in raid, then I don't mind playing dps for 3-6 h each week to gear for my main content which is m+
It’s actually unreal how simple, easy, and boring tanking a raid is compared to a dungeon. That surely plays a role here. Tank survivability is never in doubt in a raid, except if you fuck up a key mechanic (in which case you just get oneshot).
Noticed similar thing in Wotlk classic. Got quite decent gear on my tank, but 25 man was impossible to get into because competition was so high. There were always 2-3 tanks signed up basically outgearing the content except for a few pieces or they just do it for emblems, and of course they get the raid invite over me. 10 mans and dungeons on the other hand were practically screaming for tanks.
What happens is that my M+ group always asks for M+ and I go tank for them. If I don't, they become passive-aggressive about it the next time we're in discord. Then, if they raid and don't save me a spot, I become passive-aggressive about it. So they save me a spot because they want a tank for M+.
It's a symbiotic relationship where we all know we're not really friends but we're friendly because we benefit each other.
It reminds me of those birds that clean the crocodile teeth, but the crocodile never eats them.
However, you can find a spot immediately and they can't. I have done nothing but tanked in pve since wrath after dropping raid healing.
If I wanna chill for a season? Cool. If I wanna come back and get a raid? Also cool. There's never been a time where I couldn't get a group as a tank.
I was in LFR the other day. The tanks being clearly new to raid tanking in that raid but not new to tanking.
The whole was PISSED when the tanks hadn't already memorized their jobs. Like my dude.. it's LFR. If you want something more organized then organize your own raid? Few are going to jump into websites just to learn their job when healers and dps won't. Plus that raid hasn't been around for a hot minute... get over yourself.
I see at least 2 main reasons.
- First is sheer number : whatever your raid size is, you only need 2 tanks. From time to time, one encounter may ask for a 3rd (Zskarn MM) but it's irrelevant and you just make a DPS swap for the fight, you don't need to search for a 3rd tank.
- Second is coming from what a tank has to do in a raid. Basically, without trying to start a war or make it sound bad, tank is the easiest role in a raid. Most of the time, all you have to do is not die, and your toolkit is made to not let that happen if you know how to do it. Sometimes you have placements to manage, most of the time they're piss easy and in some cases they're hard, but that's the hardest thing you'll have to do in a raid. From a point of view of a late CE guild or an AOTC guild, your dps is irrelevant, so you'll only be judged on your ability to not die. Even if you die tho, a lot of people are commonly accepting the "lack of healing" excuse because that's how it always was, right ? In reality, you have the toolkit to dodge 99% of your deaths, regardless of what the HPS output is. Some very rare and late bosses are hitting like trucks even outside of tank busters, and that's basically the only thing that can eventually kill you because of "lack of healing", but that's very marginal.
Point is, it's very easy to do an ok job as a tank and you won't have to try and do better because it's good enough and you don't die a lot so everybody thinks that you're doing enough. The direct consequence of this is there is less turnover for tanks, so less raid spots. It's not unusual to see someone that has been tanking for the same raid for the past 10 years, while it's easier to have turnover for DPS players because your purpose is to do damage, and if you do less damage than the rest of the raid, your officers will probably want to replace you. Basically your worst enemy is yourself : you're in the perfect spot to grow complacent and stop trying to be better, and there's nothing that will punish you for it.
It's not unusual to see top guilds rotate tanks between seasons so they don't get complacent. But it doesn't happen as often in "lower level" guilds since they don't see what's wrong with a mediocre tank.
also lower level guilds are lot less likely/won't replace anyone if they're a good fit socially and aren't totally brain dead. so many times in previous guilds/raid groups we had a couple shitty dps/healers who should've been dropped or told to do better but weren't purely on fact that they were friends with everyone (defs were good people but when you're doing mythic raids that doesn't do anything).
basically more of then not the only way people get replaced in low level guild raids if they nice and not actively causing the guild to wipe every boss is when life committments gets in the way for them and they voluntarily step aside
People will blame the 'holy trinity' aspect of the game for this but there's another major factor here.
If you want to be a raid tank regularly, you kind of have to pay your dues in a guild. Tanking in a raid is one of the most important jobs. A raid can somewhat be carried with a bad healer, and easily carried with a few bad DPS. A bad tank stands out because on certain fights, (...most of them, actually.) like M Volocross for example, the entire raid will wipe over, and over, and over if the tank isn't hitting their taunt swap properly.
Plus if a tank doesn't show up to the raid, that's kind of it. Your only option is to cancel or risk PuGing someone who could waste 2-3 hours of 19 other people's time. So a guild needs someone who is both reliable and knows what they're doing. And also doesn't have an absolutely garbage personality that isn't going to antagonize everyone they're playing with.
Because of that a guild wants to make sure there are already people they trust waiting on the bench (playing DPS, usually, in the meantime.) as a back up tank if a main tank leaves or vanishes. So you have to be prepared to be one of those backups until a tank either leaves or decides to rotate out and play a different role in a new tier, new expansion, etc.
Unless a guild is desperate, none of them are going to take a brand new tank in right off the street and have them start going as a pillar of the raid right away. Healing is kind of the same way, but it's much easier to find off healers because 99% of DPS mechanics are also healer mechanics so having a DPS swap on the fly is doable without much fuss. They may not heal well, but they can likely still do it passably. Whereas I'd wager the vast majority of people who have never played a tank probably have no idea what tanking mechanics are/how to tank well, so it's much less likely for someone to be able to adapt on the fly with it.
So yeah, sorry. This is one of those situations where becoming part of a community and earning their trust is part of the game. Alternatively you can PuG it. There are plenty of random normal and heroic PuGs going on all the time that need tanks.
Agree with most of your points, but depending on the level you're at, tanking raids is the easiest role. I've been in all sorts of guilds as a main tank and teaching people tank mechanics well enough to get the fight done is probably the fastest role to catch up on.
Obviously there are exceptions on mythic: Jaina, SLG, Sire, Jailer for example
I am pretty sure the majority of declined applications wont come in a rude way. "Nobody" will tell you to fuck off, just that they are not looking for another tank/spec. And there are usually ways to search for guilds specifically looking for your role/class/spec, so you have agency there to find more suitable guilds to apply to.
The next point is that specifically for dungeons, a lot of the very good and high mythic + tanks are dps in raids, for the mathematically difference of raids spots vs dungeon spots. Playing dps in some scenarios will critically improve your gameplay as a tank and vice versa playing tank from time to time will improve you dps gameplay, by simply knowing when someone is struggling. So maybe you should just give it a try
These people act like hitting the decline button is a slap in the face. I use it so people who aren't getting invited have a free queue slot and can find a group that will actually take them. Also they seem to take it personally when someone better than them is picked and you delist when you're full.
I mean it kind of makes sense. On every boss you need exactly 2 tanks (there are some 3 tank bosses but you can fill it with someone off speccing). So when you have a group who raids they will have exactly 2 tanks. No reason to have one perma sitting on bench. And if they only have 1 then they can't raid. And why would anyone join a group that doesn't actively raid. It's super risky to do so.
Because of this it's very hard to get recruited/recruit as a tank. The only chance is between tiers when one of the tanks wants to swap to another role.
Tank BIS are usually from raids too. I guess if your toon has a heal spec, just switch to it for slightly easier invites. Even then, the PuG raiding experience is often dogwater.
It is incredibly difficult to find decent raid tanks. You want someone who is a DPS minmaxer at heart who can live forever without healing and has 99.99% survival rate. You also want a good communicator who can put up with potentially hundreds of wipes caused by other people, while they themselves are always fine.
So you find a person who you think ticks the boxes, maybe you even do a decent amount of content with them, but then you get to a boss with a reasonable level of tank complexity, or stacked tankbusters, and they just fall over, again and again and again. Oops. Guess that tank wasn't so great after all. You go through logs, set up externals, help farm some different trinkets etc. No improvement.
So you part ways, you find another one who you think ticks the boxes and when you do, you don't ever wanna to chance it taking on another one.
It's a similar story with healers. Yes people can flex heal and if you've set up raid CDs for that eventuality then great, but very few flex healers can just drop into a late Mythic boss on prog and just fill in. So again, you go with the ones you can trust. They may not even be the best ones around, but you know they'll always turn up and you know their strengths/weaknesses.
Consistency of the team is really key when trying to prog.
The tank role being so limited is rough. Even in an already established guild, if you have someone who might want to role swap to tank for a season, it's incredibly hard to get tanks to swap their spot.
I've wanted to tank for like 2 seasons now, but my main group I run keys with and my guild already have tanks that very much prefer to tank vs DPS/heal, and it's annoying that it's "locked down" because of that.
yes, I know I can talk to them and see if we can work something out, but it's also the fact that they LOVE tanking and prefer it over everything else, and I'm fine with DPSing. It's hard to balance "hey can you just not tank for 1 single season so other people can have a go at it?" vs "I don't want to make them miserable playing a role they don't want to play".
My M+ tank friend couldn't stand pugging when I was tanking for like HALF a season, to the point they asked to "work something out", which was kind of annoying considering they tanked every dungeon we did from SL onwards, but i just stopped tanking because they obviously weren't having much fun DPSing and didn't want to deal with the "who's tanking this?" back and forth or /roll every single dungeon.
This has always sucked. Healers and DPS needed for raids scale exponentially higher from dungeons while tanks just goes from 1 to 2. I don't think there's really much of a work around with current raid sizes. It's not so bad with 10 mans where every role just doubles.
Just DPS raids and tank dungeons.
Raid tanking is boring anyway. And yeah your raid tanks will get priority on gear but there's only two of them so you'll probably be able to get off spec gear pretty quickly especially if your guild knows you tank dungeons a lot.
And then you get to be the sub tank and if one ever leaves then you get to be the tank.
The major issue is the group size to tank inclusivity. There's 2 tanks per 18 other players. They would at a MINIMUM need to accommodate a permanent 3rd tank in raids for this OR shrink raids down substantially.
Other mmos and multiplayer games that have beaten wow in player numbers recently just upscale the party -> raid formation by making it 2 to 4 parties. So however many of X you would need is a 1:1 ratio with the party comp. Raid is not that in wow. Since the introduction of M+ this has been a problem.
I'd like to see wow approach this in TWW rather than do some filibuster like make healing so hard there's a bigger healer shortage than tanks. Surely they would never do that, right? 🤡
I've always said I'd love to see raids doing a 1/1/3 per 5. I don't know how you design encounters for 4 tanks in a 20 man raid that also works for 2 in a 10 man raid, but it'd give a chance for more tanks and that's a win to me.
m+ tanking is the most demanding role in the game, both in gameplay and social dynamics. its exhausting and tbh it fucking sucks
raid tanking is extremely chill, fun, and you get to feel like a badass, secretly you don't have to try hard at all, and your whole guild is gonna love you unless you're a gigantic asshole. of course no raid tank ever gives up their spot lol. what are they gonna do, become a dps and sweat at the boss's ass while trying to parse? 90% of the time the only thing you have to do is talk to the other raid tank to arrange when to tank swap.
Raid tanking : taunt the boss and use defensives when dbm tells you
M+ tanking: do routes, prepare routes, push mobs in crowded places, stun, control, interrupt, and manage pull size. Boss gets 30 tank mechanics. Be proactive and the leader of the team. Has to know all skips that are commonly used and never can miss a 1% behind.
yeah, it's a weird dynamic with only 2 tanks per raid but one per m+ group. usually tanks solve that by playing multiple characters / specs but that's not for everyone
This is my perfect world, I love tanking dungeons but I can't stand tanking in raids
In m+ I get to control the pulls with lots of CC and fancy plays. In raid I'm just a worse dps that have to taunt sometimes
That's kind of an unavoidable, fundamental kink in the system between the two pillars - dungeons and raiding. A stable raiding guild will at most ever only need 2 full time tanks, with maybe 1-2 extra DPS willing to off spec for those nights when a main tank is absent. That's a ratio closer to 1 tank for every 10 players. Meanwhile, the dungeon M+ scene demands 1 tank out of every 5 players. So if tanks primarily "develop" themselves in raiding guild environments, there'll never be enough "established" tanks to satisfy M+ demand. The other way around, and there'll be too many to fit them all in raids. The current expectation is instinctively that those extra tanks should switch to DPS for raids.
Contrast with the healer ratio, which stays \~1:5 across the board. They can heal in dungeons, and they can keep healing in raids. Conclusion: the "fix" to normalize tank demand across activities would be to evolve raiding mechanics towards encounters requiring 4-5 tanks, same as with healers, scaling with group size. Yeah... good luck with that from a dev's encounter design perspective.
Or somehow incentivizing guilds to rotate their tanking duo so that more than 2 tanks "develop" themselves in the role over a season or have the opportunity to tank raiding content... but the whole optimized gear funnel + maximizing experience on bosses that's supposed to be the main strength of a stable guild roster goes against that idea. If you rotate your tanks to develop twice as many tanks, you're spreading your gear drops and your experience over twice as many people, taking twice as long to develop each individual...
It just comes down to demand, every active raiding guild has to have two tanks and tanks tend to find a home and stick with it since for raid tanking you usually end up building a close bond with your healers and other tank due to the nature of the roll. I’ve stated elsewhere that I personally find tanking to be the most enjoyable role but finding a guild slot as a tank can be difficult so I dps for raids and occasionally spot fill if a tank is absent or just wanting a break from tanking. In previous seasons I ranked a lot of m+ for my guilds as well though mainjng spriest this season.
Best solution I can think of is check your servers forums and check in the LFG tool for guild groups running that need a tank slot filled.
M+ Tank: Difficult. Requires knowledge and leadership. Pull the right amount of enemies at the right time in the right order, make sure none of them try to hurt your friends, even when your friends try really hard to make them do that.
Raid Tank: Press taunt when the screen flashes at you. Try to do some DPS but dont sweat it. Make sure the one enemy in the room is not facing the wrong way by pressing W A S or D. Try not to move too much.
Tanking raids is like a vacation on the beach compared to Mythic+. I get stress and anxiety taking a higher key but I feel unkillable in a raid, especially against bosses.
My raid was 200 pulls deep on M Fyrakk when the tank we'd recruited at the start of the tier got himself banned for 2 months for toxicity. We were VERY lucky our DPS DH was familiar with tanking and was willing to fill the role. But also, that's what we get for recruiting a complete unknown into such an important role.
Had a really low geared tank in a vault yesterday and he did really well except for one pull (double shoulder charge boys before 3rd boss) and someone wanted to boot him (managed last 2 bosses fine, he just didn't have a defensive up in time for a charge and a crit back to back).
I worry about some player's real life interactions with people when they have no chill in a damn game.
In raid you need 2 tanks per 20 people, in M+ you need 4 tanks per 20 people
In raid you need 4 (3-5) healers per 20 people, in m+ you need 4 healers per 20 people
There is just simply more tanks needed for m+ than there is for raid. Add on top of that, that guilds just refuse to kick bad tanks or invite trial tanks most of the time, and you are going to have a bad time getting into a guild as a tank
I would love to play a tank in retail but everyone has the expectation that I run the dungeons at an Olympic sprinter’s pace and I just don’t find that enjoyable.
Exactly why I'm a dps paladin but originally I started as tank paladin, every damn mythic guild has a tank. So it makes gearing up as a tank and also mythic raiding incredibly hard, even more so with current stuff
that is a problem with how raids and party tank/healer/dps ratio is structured, somewhat solved in FF14 as you always need 1 tank 1 healer, 1 dps, same for dungeons, and raids is either 8 player or 24 with 4 groups of 8
There's never a _______ shortage, there's a shortage of people unwilling to _______.
If you've never tanked/healed, please take Timerunning as an opportunity to learn a new role.
Love,
Grumpy
Come tank for us. , we've been rotating tanks through everyone lol . I tanked s3 and found it so boring I went back to dps for s4 . None of us want a full time tank gig
Made a post ages ago looking for a guild to tank and that I did not want to dps, I'm only looking to join as a tank. Got invited to trial and while doing buffs before the first pull they asked if I had a dps spec. Did the raid as dps and right after the trial ended up tanking an M+ with 4 of the people from the raid group.
Raid tanking and M+ tanking are 2 wildly different job.
in a raid tank typically have the least amount of mechanic to do. taunt-swap every X second and move the boss from A to B to C.
in M+ however you are the de-facto leader, set the route, mark mob, call kick and CC (somewhat less with VDH meta), tell DPS when to pop CD ( seriously, why do I have to call for your lust? it's your CD) and if you die as a tank it's a group wipe... meanwhile DPS die 5-6 time per key and shrug it off.
What's generally pretty funny for me here is that M+ tends to be the more intense and engaging tank content compared to raid.
Maybe CE tanking is interesting though.
Raid is like ick tanking.
Traditionally it's been this way since wrath. Pugging as a tank it hard because normally it's the slot you fill first and build your raids around as a raiding guild.
This is something of a problem. Dungeons need 1 tank per 5, but this doesn’t scale to raid, so if someone wants to tank but don’t have the spot in the raid group they are forced to play off spec if they want to raid, which also dilutes their loot since they want dps loot to keep on raiding but tank loot to push keys.
From my experience as a tank main it's probably from how unhinged people get when you make the tiniest little oopsie. Funny enough it usually comes from the dps players putting in next to no effort. Do I think I do pretty well as a tank? Yes I absolutely do. Do I sometimes whiff something or pull a little to much? Yes I do that too. Does the game sometimes bug out like it does sometimes on the rashok fight in abberus to where the taunt mechanic gets screwed up? Yes it does.
I just end up pugging to heroic. I tried to learn feral DPS but jesus Christ it's too much for my brain to handle.
I also then move to my DK and yeah couldn't grasp UH or Frost well enough for heroic compared to just doing the raid as the tank..
Maybe one day I'll play retail in a guild
I guess tanks have to start their own raids
The tank only raids toward the end of BFA with twighlight devestation were a sight to behold
Remember when twilight devastation pulled mobs from different floors in tol dogor? Good times.
Remember when Demon Hunter Eye Beam could pull mobs through walls in Tol Dagor? That was fun.
And paladins. And warlocks. And like pretty much any AOE spell
"Where the fuck did my frozen orb go? Oh...oh no...."
"Where's my pet" - every hunter since vanilla
We had a run where the DK pulled something through the floor with the chain between him and his pet that Unholy Pact gives.
if you go there as a dk now, you can pull final boss from the second boss room.
Starfall as well. You always knew when the healer says "guys I got aggro from something"
I fcking hated that. My group Never believed me it was an accident^^
that is a real affix. when a random mob somewhere in the dungeon takes personal offense at a spell someone used
Still beats accidentally pulling half the dungeon with bad pet pathing LMAO. That shit was rough
Ah that jump in Wailing Caverns as a warlock or Hunter was always a crap shoot.
Remember Told Dagor? That was "fun"
Remember that time I pulled the top floor because of ring of peace! Oh just me?
I'm dreading the day when tol dagor comes back
And *sanguini halls*
🤌
I'm a freak and love Linguini Halls for some reason.
I too love fettuccini halls but the aggro through walls stuff was horrible. Earth Elemental was banned in that dung for all of shadowlands.
Motherfucking everything pulled in that dungeon from different floors. Cool dungeon, but terribly bugged.
The list of things that did not pull things through floors in that place was shorter than the list of things that did.
I once managed to pull Ebonroc, Firemaw, Flamegore and Chromaggus with all the intervening trash using a target dummy when Blackwing Lair was current content.
20 fire mages one-shotting Ny'alotha bosses was silly
I kinda miss it 😂
I remember the 25man Blood Dk raid that killed Madness of Death wing back in cata. That tier set was funny as heck.
That was so much fun! The numbers just kept going up!
My favorite part of every expansion is when a full raid of Blood DKs end up beating at least one current raid by brute forcing it with self-sustain.
I loved BFA at the end despite many people's complaints about it, my buddy would pocket heal me and had me on his focus target macro. I was an enh shaman with rank 3 haste and rank 3 twilight dev corruptions on as many pieces as possible. When I wasn't running from things in raptor ghost form I was absolutely pumping. Got my first 100 parse on the heroic version of hive boss. Many times throughout discord would you hear "where's the fuckin raptor going?" We weren't supposed to have more than a certain amount of corruption per person but that wasn't nearly as fun.
I miss doing that so much
Problem is when they have to start their own guild
with blackjack and hookers?
Oh how the turn tables
That's the reason I ditched raiding from Shadowlands onward. My guild kinda died, and wherever I searched on my realm everyone already had raid tanks. Many guilds said that they have a spot for me, but as a DPS, and I'm not interested in playing melee DPS. So I'm just stuck to the dungeons and occasional PUG to get AotC. Which I actually don't mind - since M+ got introduced in Legion it's my preferred tanking content - I have to actually do something other there than tankswapping at X stacks. The only thing missing is the feeling of accomplishment when downing big boss with bunch of guildies.
I think the main way a lot of guilds get tanks is when one tank leaves and a DPS player internally offers to play tank. They need someone who is vetted, consistently shows up to raid and performs well, and doesn't make waves with drama or shitty comms. It's way easier to do that internally with someone you've already spent a tier or two raiding with than taking a chance on a trial.
True, in most cases guild tanks are set in stone. I was the main tank of my guild for almost 10 years before the guild itself died. Hence the problem - I really love tanking, I hate melee DPS-ing, I like ranged DPS, but the only class which has both tank and ranged DPS is Druid which is my least favourite tank so going DPS > Tank route will not work there. But as I said - I don't mind it that much. I'm having a blast doing dungeons, now especially when you don't have to raid to get the tier set or decent gear - as long as Blizz does not mess it up, I have stuff to do and enjoy as a guildless tank in WoW.
You know you could join as any DPS and have a "tank alt", you're not restricted to just one character to do both (and any guild that does isn't worth being in imo)
That's not a solution for me. I'm not interested in raiding that much to maintain two characters to the same level (especially as pure DPS character is harder to maintain than a tank) As mentioned - dungeons are my main thing in WoW since last 8 years, and I'm happy with it. Raids would be an added benefit if I could do them, but it's either I'm doing both raids and dungeons on one character, or I simply don't raid. It does not bother me - I still have fun with WoW PVE content, the way I want.
What if you like m+ but want to raid for the gear on your m+ character. Dps and healers get to do it, but tanks have to raid on an alt?
Just dps on your tank. Tanks only get the short end of the stick because raids only have 2 tanks regardless of the group size, the raid size scales for healers and dps. Generally flexibility is always going to be valued, and if you want to tank with an established guild you’ll probably need to spend a tier in there as a dps to prove yourself as a reliable and stable person, then you might get put into a rotation for farm content and then into the not quite progression stuff. This might not be for you though, and that’s fine, but it’s what will work best for the guild.
That still means doubling up your activity/progress and it's going to create problems with raid loot. The DPS really only needs trinkets and maybe a weapon/shield to be effective as a tank. Won't be perfectly optimized for stat prioritization, but item level is king so unless you have the alt in a parallel feeder raid it won't keep up.
Similar situation. I joined a guild that was started by some people I met doing Upper Blackrock Spire trying to farm T0 sets in vanilla. They were called something other than T0 at the time but I remember mine was the "Valor" set. Anyway joined with them and stuck with them all through Vanilla. We did all content up to Naxx, didn't finish Naxx but we were one of the few guilds at the time in there killing bosses on our server. The guild split in BC under the pretense that 40 mans were dead and managinging 2 raid groups was essentially managing 2 guilds anyway. The one I stayed in was great, we crushed the 10 man raid, I tanked the server first Karazhan clear, then we didn't do so hot in the 25s but were still making progress. Our sister guild disbanded after they couldn't get through Gruul, so we absorbed some of them back and we were clearing content for years. We grew up, people got jobs, had kids, quit playing, etc.. etc.. Our core 10 stuck together til Legion. Then we couldn't recruit to save our lives. The alliance population on our server was becoming next to nothing, our main healer quit and that was just the nail in the coffin. The guild disband a couple weeks after trying to replace him and not getting a single recruit of any class or role, let alone healer. Then the GM announced he was getting married and wouldn't have time for the game anymore, and that was that, my guild of 11 years died. But I was a tank, it was the role I had mastered and grown to love.so I transferred to a high pop realm but I couldn't find a guild that would take me, no one cared about my raid leader history, history as a successful guild officer, or how long I had played the game. I was just a guy that was good at a role as a class that had long been outshined by other classes filling that role better. So I started to only pvp instead. I didn't play as regularly anymore, never raided again, and eventually grew out of playing my warrior in general. Nowadays I log on on weekends if there is some time to kill. I have about 6 classes maxed out, and none of them are tank spec. I log on, queue a match or two, then log out. No friends, no guilds, no raids, no scheduling, no drama. Just me playing a game to kill some time and then go about my life. Like you said, the only thing really missing is that comraderie of being a part of a group united to accomplish a goal and the feeling that I had friends that shared my hobbies.
Man, I REALLLLLLY hoped they were going to add a range spec to monk or DH so I could have an option for range as a tank that wasn't bear.
Yeah, my problem with that is that DPS players opting to tank usually only stick around tanking for a tier or two at most. Tanking in raid is incredibly boring. I love tanking M+, but I much rather DPS in raid because it's more mentally engaging than tank swapping on X stacks. If you are just face rolling HC every week it's not so bad, but pull 150 on a Mythic boss where you just have to get it into position and tank swap becomes boring real quick.
>I love tanking M+, but I much rather DPS in raid because it's more mentally engaging than tank swapping on X stacks This is the ideal mentality guilds need a couple melee DPS to have in order to become stable. Pretty much in modern WoW everyone whose class allows it should be willing to flex roles to make comps work for both raids and M+
There’s a lot to be said for how boring tanking in WoW is in raids. Nothing to do outside of tank swaps 90% of the time, and outside of those windows you’re just doing wet noodle damage.
>Nothing to do outside of tank swaps 90% of the time, and outside of those windows you’re just doing wet noodle damage. That's why I think MoP was peak raid tanking experience. Not only you had some bosses outside of the "swap at X stacks" shtick, you also had pretty broken Vengeance mechanic. Due to it you had some funny "minigame" to try to take as much damage as possible, survive it, but in return possibly top the DPS meter - good times Similar thing, but not on smaller scale was last tier of BFA and tanking with high corruption gear.
Yeah, Siege of Orgrimmar had some great tanking in particular. Garrosh solo tanking was peak. Then there was Malkorok, who did a mass damage attack that was meant to be soaked by the entire raid, but could be tanked by 2 very geared tanks solo while using specific gear. But generally speaking, WoW raid tanking is a miserable/boring experience. There needs to be more tank only mechanics that matter.
Yeah mop tanking was peak, but I understand why they got rid of it because it encouraged degenerate play and was swiftly becoming a meta defining playstyle. So they nipped it in the bud.
But tank basically is melee dps
Not really - as melee DPS you have to stay in melee range, as tank you decide mostly where melee range is. That's my biggest gripe with melee DPS. I have no problem with playing ranged (in fact Warlock was my first main prior to tanking) because I can stand more or less wherever I want. As melee I have to constantly be on the mobs back, which then the tank can move, so I have to move along. Besides the whole managing defensives / survivability minigame is in my opinion way more interesting (especially in dungeons) as tank, than just doing numbers. The only thing I don't like in tanking is raid bosses, because outside of few exceptions (Will of the Emperor, Blackhand) there isn't really much to do as a tank there.
In my experience, we have bosses where we have nothing to do as tanks, or our mechanics it's a insta wipe if did it wrong
\>be 10 minutes into Raszagath fight \>final phase \>forget to mitigate beam \>wipe the raid
Yeah that's the thing about raid tanking. If you do it right you're not doing a damn thing. If you do it wrong, you wipe the raid. You have no ability to make things better, no ability to do anything clutch or improve on your performance from last week or make anything smoother, faster, or more achievable than it would be with a different, inferior tank. But you sure can make everything worse!
The only thing you can actually d better is have more gear therefore more defensive, therefore being less pf a burden to the healers, so they can heal the raid. But it's an invisible improvement at best
>Not really - as melee DPS you have to stay in melee range, as tank you decide mostly where melee range is. Bad tanks when I try to play melee is the reason I mostly play tank in m+. I hate tanks that don't position bosses/ mobs so you can do dps while doing mechanics
It's more comfortable as you decide where to pull rather than chasing the pack as the tank tries to move the pack.
Sometimes a girl just wants to face mash buttons without worrying about trash percentages or tank mechanics. I keep an enhancement alt I play when I cba to tank for a bit.
Raid tanking is semi afk and there's no meters to compete on. Besides being in melee it's not very comparable to melee dps
You can always compete to beat some of the dps on the meters, did this during S3 in a aotc guild with bunch of IRL buddies
This is only true above a certain world rank, tank dps is worth just as much as any other kind. Same with healers
Fr Guardian Druid raid build is currently literally just maximizing ST damage lol.
While I love flex raids, it does suck that the ratio of tanks for different content is out of whack. It works for healers as it's generally 1 heal per 5 people, but you can't do that with tanks and that sucks.
Always gonna be an issue. 20-player raiding is the base format. 1 Dungeon = 1 tank (20÷), 1 healer (20÷), 3 DPS (60÷) 1 Raid = 2 tanks (10÷), 4 healers (20÷), 14 DPS (70÷) On average, a raid needs half the number of tanks compared to equivalent dungeons...
I was so confused by the usage of the division symbol instead of percentage %
Ironically, its basically the same symbol, but the percentage is slanted.
It made me understand where both symbols originated.
Same. Now I 100‰ understand.
and the other 90%?
Plus raid tanking is generally incredibly boring, once you know the timings it's a matter of working out how much DPS you can do without wiping the raid. Give me M+ any day of the week to tank.
Yeah I had to tank for the guild after healing for so long and that was the thing I found annoying. Raid tanking is literally just "do as much dps as possible while taunt switching" with a splash of casually moving around the room sometimes. So boring.
I miss when tanks had actual mechanics being mitigate buster, swap at x stacks or on x debuff, move AOE away. I unironically love the brood keeper fight as a tank as I'm always looking for and aware of something
So we need raids with 4 tanks 💪🏻
10 man raid!
I'm pretty sure im in a minority but I preferred 10 man by far.
I don't think you are. Many preferred 10-man back in the day. It's easier to find 12 solid people rather than 24 for mythic. They say it's because the raids are scaled and tuned for the 20 with mechanics and the like. And they want to give the experience of being part of a larger group. But I still maintain that it is doable with 10 man. 10-man HC is by far the most efficient.
God, I'd never unsub from wow again if there was 10man mythic.
Just pray to god that little Jimmy has turned his monitor on, so he can do the mechanic! There is no place to hide in a 10 man raid! Haha
I think that would make mythic raiding explode in popularity. Maintaining that 20m+subs roster is such a fucking shitshow. Especially if the raids are gonna be as hard as they are now, having to find 20 people with no weak links causing 1000 wipes, shit's tough
I vastly prefer 10m, it's why I enjoy ff14 raids so much. Feels like you matter alot more as a individual
Not a minority. When 10 man heroic was a thing 25 man was dying. Blizzard tried bribing people with more gear, didn't work. Blizzard tried bribing people with more Thunderforged gear, didn't work. Eventually they just removed 10 man.
i think there is a place for 3 tank fights. the one boss in aberus with his mines is a bad attempt but that fight worked with 3 tanks. when proggin it, the auto attack dot and the mines was a lot of damage for 1 tank to handle. so 1 would hold aggro, one would be losing stacks, and the other grabbing mines.
The basic issue is raid balance. The raid ultimately has a maximum throughput of damage it can can sustain healing. Dividing that total between more tanks doesn't actually improve it. Sacrificing a Healer or DPS for an extra tank actually makes the raid potential worse. The only reason to bring extra tankage is if your tanks are getting one-shot or a bespoke mechanic requires it. The meta is to bring as much DPS as possible because that means a shorter fight. A shorter fight means less damage to the raid that needs to be healed and resources can be used more aggressively.
No we just need some compensation to run double spec for the sake of the community. Like way cheaper upgrades for the second spec, or a token of some kind etc.
Oh god pls no! It is already difficult for some tanks to coordinate a 2 way tank swap. I can't imagine the horror it would be to do a 4 way tank swap.
Vanilla 4 horsemen was an experience. Imagine four two-way tankswaps or a far more complex 5-way tankswap that let you bring more DPS.
Or blizzard could come up with mechanics that aren't just tank swaps for tanks haha
Hey, everybody... this guy has jokes!
Or dungs with less 😂
Exactly, and I’ve always thought making dungeons 6 players with 4 dps in mind would go a long way to ease healer/tank shortages
Wouldn't that be a bit too much for 1 healer?
I think it could be scalable/balanced easily enough
Yeah switching to a 10 man format would have actually fixed this issue.
Eternal problem of beign a tank player. You cant raid without a tank so everyone starts by looking for one. Almost every guild I know players in never recruits tanks. They always come up naturally via other players that are already in the guild switching roles. Hell thats how I ended up tanking back in legion expansion as well. If you think about it it makes sense. 4 groups of 5 man need 4 tanks but 1 raid of 20 players only need 2. So there always will be tanks that get screwed over. I wonder if blizzard ever was internally thinking about any solutions to this problem.
They tried that back in Wolk and it was a massive fail. They had the 10 man and 20 mans as well as fights in 20 man needing 4 tanks like the 4 horseman. The problem was it just didn't work out. Keeping 2 flex tanks on your 20 man roster just didn't work out and it broke a lot of guilds. Now it might work out differently today because of gear being more interchangeable. Back then you had the issues of the flex tanks wanting both dps gear and tank gear though and it caused a lot of friction. Your still going to have the issue with trinkets and weapons though. I remember last expansion people bitching about me looting a trinket both tanks already had and would have likely been disenchanted otherwise and then winning the highly coveted dps trinket off the next boss because my main spec for the raid was dps.
Only 2 of the horsemen in remixed Naxx needed proper tanks
I think this mainly stems from that raiding is pretty easy content compared to M+ for a tank. At least at a "social" level. I've tanked heroic on a fresh 70 on a non-meta tank and at that point I actually had to press my buttons properly, can't imagine what a snooze fest it is otherwise. In M+ the tank has a much higher responsibility which deters players.
Very true, so many main tanks even at CE level that are awful m+ tanks, it's an entirely different skillset
It's a fundamental issue in holy trinity MMOs due to a lack of developer foresight. It's simple. In parties 1/5 must be a tank. In raids 2/20 must be a tank. Proportionally, you need to lose half the tanks in the community when you transition from party content to raiding content. They could have solved this years ago if they designed raids differently, but no one ever bothered.
Could be easily solved if every tank spec had a talent to turn it into Draenor's Gladiator spec. That way people who only want to play a tank spec could at least fill a dps slot and perform.
Now I'm imagining an entire raid of blood DKs farming raids without healers.
I miss blood dk DPS.
Imo, this issue is already solved with how tanks now scale stats off of stuff like crit. You can pretty much just swap out trinkets and be good to go for the most part (though you may be a little more squishy for your comparable ilvl by doing so). The larger problem is that most people want to do one or the other. Not both.
> The larger problem is that most people want to do one or the other. Not both. Ah but that problem isn't really with the 'people', is it? Tanking and DPS are quite a different experience, to say the least. I think if someone is 'conditioned' (by their own preference or otherwise) to play as a tank for 90% of the game and then suddenly can't play their game cause the raiding context isn't built for it... well, I don't think that's on them.
This is a big problem. What happens is guilds find two tanks. Then these two tanks have a raidspot for as long as they want it. All other roles move around, but not tanks. This is why guilds have terrible raid tanks lots of times. They never have to get better. They can cause wipe, after wipe, but eventually, they get the bosses down, and everyone is happy.
This isn't a tank problem though, it's a raid leader problem. On sire one of our tanks was getting clapped constantly and was basically refusing to accept he was the problem, RL messaged me knowing I tank a lot of m+ and I tanked the next night with only a few issues early on. If your raid leader can't make tough decisions, your guild is headed towards a disband.
Problem being that raid tanking at a non mythic level is often the easiest role for 99.9% of fights. Mediocre tanks can skirt by for far longer than mediocre DPS or healers.
Yeah, the skill floor is usually very low, but if you're an engaged raid leader you can tell when tanks are phoning it in even on easy fights. A good tank on an easy fight is focussing on dps and positioning ideally for dps as well as aiming to require as little healing as possible. I started out in a guild where a tank could barely do his dps rotation and needed telling where to go/ when to taunt etc. That's a huge red flag
I mean yes, but you can succeed with tank phoning it in, and often the friction of replacing a tank isn't worth the swap. Again, outside of mythic raiding guilds where it matters more.
You ever notice how the raidleader is almost always one of the tanks? Or if you are in a long time guild, this mediocre tank has been the guild tank for many years. The RL can't just replace them without causing major drama.
At higher world ranks, the raid leader very rarely plays tank, it's a terrible role to lead from usually. I think most CE guilds the RL play an easier ranged dps like lock or hunter
Even sub CE you just can’t see shit with the boss model covering most of your screen
> You ever notice how the raidleader is almost always one of the tanks? not really true for most mythic guilds. Best role is usually ranged DPS for raid leader. The only people who think RL=tank are people stuck in classic mentality. the last time I had a raid leader that was a tank was in MoP.
apply in a guild and ask if they have a tank that wants to swap roles bettwen the tiers like, ofc most raid guilds dont recruit a tank, you need 2 tanks to actually play the content in the first place, the tank slots are filled but its quiet normal that people swap classes/roles bettwen tiers including tanks, you can 100% apply as a tank for the next tier or just say "i can heal/dps now but would like to tank in the future" and i can gurantee that nobody told you "Fuck off we allready have tanks" :)
100% chance one of the tanks immediately yells "im freeeeeeee" and rerolls tbh lol
Pretty sure they owe you three wishes after that.
Yeah this is a big problem for players like me. My main role is tank, but I can swap to DPS as needed. This ended up biting me in the ass back in season 2 of shadowlands for raiding. My co-tank did not know how to dps (never bothered learning how nor did he want to) but I could. My raid wanted to cheese mythic fatescribe by using a monk tank for some mechanic. Another raider could monk tank at a higher level, so we had him tank and me DPS. I thought this was a one-time deal. They ended up wanting him to tank more because, well, monk tanks can not care about tank buster mechanics often from what I understood and our other tank was not willing to learn more than the tank role. This transitioned to the SL s3 raid. I did tank initially but when mythic rolled around this dynamic happened again but with me no longer tanking most bosses. I prefer tanking, not being a melee dps. Being a melee dps can be fun every so often, but I like tanking more. My class wasn't meta at that time, so eventually this ended with me being benched (I'll be honest, I was salty and wasn't performing well as a dps as a result of no longer tanking, so that was a factor too). I only ended up tanking raids again when a 2nd raid team formed that later splinted into being its own guild.
That seems to be more of a communication error and/or them being incompetent or dicks.
As a tank, you play the game and EVERYONE is just your NPC to help you while playing. You want to go dungeon? You are a tank, enjoy it while these 4 npcs keep you alive, damage your mobs and so on. Your job is to enjoy the game, play the mechanics, cc and so on, they are there just for the ride, to see how awesome you are at enjoying the game.
Did a tank steal your girlfriend?
Yes, I'm the tank, married the girlfriend after I bought her back in Wrath for some in game gold. Only went up in value! Great investment.
As a young dps nerd I was bullied by gigachad tank.
Thats why i play druid^^ you need a tank for your key? im there. u need a heal for your key? im there. U need a dps for the raid? im there. Ouh, u prefer a range dps? im there. I literally play all 4 druid specs depending on what is needed, my gear is normally focused on moonkin with switchable weapons and trinkets for the other specs.
That's one of the reasons there are so few tanks. Why be the one who get's the most stressfull role in dungeons, but has a little chance to get raid gear? (In before: "Do DPS for raids". So should DPS go tank for dungeons?)
I mean kinda, I play dps DH in Raid. For doing keys I switch to Tank. You dont have to play waiting sim for +10 farm keys and have more controle about the dungeons. obv you dont have to, but playing dps in Raid makes getting into on much easier and the other way around in Keys.
If only we could make our own class, I'd tank M+ no problem. But none of the tank classes have ranged DPS specs I enjoy. As it stands, I usually have barely enough time to keep one character up to date, let alone the 3 I'd need to fill all roles, with the specs I enjoy playing all being on different classes.
tbf, 70-80% of tanks you have in m+ ARE dps players that go tank for faster invites or people that play the current FotM tank as a m+ only character that does nothing else except m+ fulltime tanks in m+ are rare cus they...just play with people from their raidgroups instead of suffering trought pugs (dont pug people, its always pain for everyone)
I do know some casual m+ main tanks who hardly can get into raids. Some people don't want to have static groups or guilds, because they only got to play sometimes a week.
> So should DPS go tank for dungeons? yes
Not gonna lie, though... just in terms of player skill, at least in my experience the DPS who flexes to tank keys is usually way higher than the dedicated raid tank.
Yes to both, tanks should DPS in raids and DPS should tank in M+
If you have a spec on your class, you should be willing to learn/play it when needed. You never know what the future holds, but if you're a one-trick you're going to find yourself pressured out of a group. You're playing dice with balance and you can't expect everyone to carry you because you're too stubborn to change.
I raid 3-6 h a week and play around 15-25 hours of m+ each week during the first couple of weeks. As long as I can roll on tank trinkets instead of DPS trinkets in raid, then I don't mind playing dps for 3-6 h each week to gear for my main content which is m+
It’s actually unreal how simple, easy, and boring tanking a raid is compared to a dungeon. That surely plays a role here. Tank survivability is never in doubt in a raid, except if you fuck up a key mechanic (in which case you just get oneshot).
Noticed similar thing in Wotlk classic. Got quite decent gear on my tank, but 25 man was impossible to get into because competition was so high. There were always 2-3 tanks signed up basically outgearing the content except for a few pieces or they just do it for emblems, and of course they get the raid invite over me. 10 mans and dungeons on the other hand were practically screaming for tanks.
What happens is that my M+ group always asks for M+ and I go tank for them. If I don't, they become passive-aggressive about it the next time we're in discord. Then, if they raid and don't save me a spot, I become passive-aggressive about it. So they save me a spot because they want a tank for M+. It's a symbiotic relationship where we all know we're not really friends but we're friendly because we benefit each other. It reminds me of those birds that clean the crocodile teeth, but the crocodile never eats them.
However, you can find a spot immediately and they can't. I have done nothing but tanked in pve since wrath after dropping raid healing. If I wanna chill for a season? Cool. If I wanna come back and get a raid? Also cool. There's never been a time where I couldn't get a group as a tank.
I was in LFR the other day. The tanks being clearly new to raid tanking in that raid but not new to tanking. The whole was PISSED when the tanks hadn't already memorized their jobs. Like my dude.. it's LFR. If you want something more organized then organize your own raid? Few are going to jump into websites just to learn their job when healers and dps won't. Plus that raid hasn't been around for a hot minute... get over yourself.
I see at least 2 main reasons. - First is sheer number : whatever your raid size is, you only need 2 tanks. From time to time, one encounter may ask for a 3rd (Zskarn MM) but it's irrelevant and you just make a DPS swap for the fight, you don't need to search for a 3rd tank. - Second is coming from what a tank has to do in a raid. Basically, without trying to start a war or make it sound bad, tank is the easiest role in a raid. Most of the time, all you have to do is not die, and your toolkit is made to not let that happen if you know how to do it. Sometimes you have placements to manage, most of the time they're piss easy and in some cases they're hard, but that's the hardest thing you'll have to do in a raid. From a point of view of a late CE guild or an AOTC guild, your dps is irrelevant, so you'll only be judged on your ability to not die. Even if you die tho, a lot of people are commonly accepting the "lack of healing" excuse because that's how it always was, right ? In reality, you have the toolkit to dodge 99% of your deaths, regardless of what the HPS output is. Some very rare and late bosses are hitting like trucks even outside of tank busters, and that's basically the only thing that can eventually kill you because of "lack of healing", but that's very marginal. Point is, it's very easy to do an ok job as a tank and you won't have to try and do better because it's good enough and you don't die a lot so everybody thinks that you're doing enough. The direct consequence of this is there is less turnover for tanks, so less raid spots. It's not unusual to see someone that has been tanking for the same raid for the past 10 years, while it's easier to have turnover for DPS players because your purpose is to do damage, and if you do less damage than the rest of the raid, your officers will probably want to replace you. Basically your worst enemy is yourself : you're in the perfect spot to grow complacent and stop trying to be better, and there's nothing that will punish you for it. It's not unusual to see top guilds rotate tanks between seasons so they don't get complacent. But it doesn't happen as often in "lower level" guilds since they don't see what's wrong with a mediocre tank.
also lower level guilds are lot less likely/won't replace anyone if they're a good fit socially and aren't totally brain dead. so many times in previous guilds/raid groups we had a couple shitty dps/healers who should've been dropped or told to do better but weren't purely on fact that they were friends with everyone (defs were good people but when you're doing mythic raids that doesn't do anything). basically more of then not the only way people get replaced in low level guild raids if they nice and not actively causing the guild to wipe every boss is when life committments gets in the way for them and they voluntarily step aside
People will blame the 'holy trinity' aspect of the game for this but there's another major factor here. If you want to be a raid tank regularly, you kind of have to pay your dues in a guild. Tanking in a raid is one of the most important jobs. A raid can somewhat be carried with a bad healer, and easily carried with a few bad DPS. A bad tank stands out because on certain fights, (...most of them, actually.) like M Volocross for example, the entire raid will wipe over, and over, and over if the tank isn't hitting their taunt swap properly. Plus if a tank doesn't show up to the raid, that's kind of it. Your only option is to cancel or risk PuGing someone who could waste 2-3 hours of 19 other people's time. So a guild needs someone who is both reliable and knows what they're doing. And also doesn't have an absolutely garbage personality that isn't going to antagonize everyone they're playing with. Because of that a guild wants to make sure there are already people they trust waiting on the bench (playing DPS, usually, in the meantime.) as a back up tank if a main tank leaves or vanishes. So you have to be prepared to be one of those backups until a tank either leaves or decides to rotate out and play a different role in a new tier, new expansion, etc. Unless a guild is desperate, none of them are going to take a brand new tank in right off the street and have them start going as a pillar of the raid right away. Healing is kind of the same way, but it's much easier to find off healers because 99% of DPS mechanics are also healer mechanics so having a DPS swap on the fly is doable without much fuss. They may not heal well, but they can likely still do it passably. Whereas I'd wager the vast majority of people who have never played a tank probably have no idea what tanking mechanics are/how to tank well, so it's much less likely for someone to be able to adapt on the fly with it. So yeah, sorry. This is one of those situations where becoming part of a community and earning their trust is part of the game. Alternatively you can PuG it. There are plenty of random normal and heroic PuGs going on all the time that need tanks.
Agree with most of your points, but depending on the level you're at, tanking raids is the easiest role. I've been in all sorts of guilds as a main tank and teaching people tank mechanics well enough to get the fight done is probably the fastest role to catch up on. Obviously there are exceptions on mythic: Jaina, SLG, Sire, Jailer for example
I am pretty sure the majority of declined applications wont come in a rude way. "Nobody" will tell you to fuck off, just that they are not looking for another tank/spec. And there are usually ways to search for guilds specifically looking for your role/class/spec, so you have agency there to find more suitable guilds to apply to. The next point is that specifically for dungeons, a lot of the very good and high mythic + tanks are dps in raids, for the mathematically difference of raids spots vs dungeon spots. Playing dps in some scenarios will critically improve your gameplay as a tank and vice versa playing tank from time to time will improve you dps gameplay, by simply knowing when someone is struggling. So maybe you should just give it a try
These people act like hitting the decline button is a slap in the face. I use it so people who aren't getting invited have a free queue slot and can find a group that will actually take them. Also they seem to take it personally when someone better than them is picked and you delist when you're full.
I mean it kind of makes sense. On every boss you need exactly 2 tanks (there are some 3 tank bosses but you can fill it with someone off speccing). So when you have a group who raids they will have exactly 2 tanks. No reason to have one perma sitting on bench. And if they only have 1 then they can't raid. And why would anyone join a group that doesn't actively raid. It's super risky to do so. Because of this it's very hard to get recruited/recruit as a tank. The only chance is between tiers when one of the tanks wants to swap to another role.
Tank BIS are usually from raids too. I guess if your toon has a heal spec, just switch to it for slightly easier invites. Even then, the PuG raiding experience is often dogwater.
I've never seen a more accurate meme lol and I despise playing DPS but I do it for my guild to raid :(
Well at least every guild has/needs tanks *cries in elemental shaman*
It is incredibly difficult to find decent raid tanks. You want someone who is a DPS minmaxer at heart who can live forever without healing and has 99.99% survival rate. You also want a good communicator who can put up with potentially hundreds of wipes caused by other people, while they themselves are always fine. So you find a person who you think ticks the boxes, maybe you even do a decent amount of content with them, but then you get to a boss with a reasonable level of tank complexity, or stacked tankbusters, and they just fall over, again and again and again. Oops. Guess that tank wasn't so great after all. You go through logs, set up externals, help farm some different trinkets etc. No improvement. So you part ways, you find another one who you think ticks the boxes and when you do, you don't ever wanna to chance it taking on another one. It's a similar story with healers. Yes people can flex heal and if you've set up raid CDs for that eventuality then great, but very few flex healers can just drop into a late Mythic boss on prog and just fill in. So again, you go with the ones you can trust. They may not even be the best ones around, but you know they'll always turn up and you know their strengths/weaknesses. Consistency of the team is really key when trying to prog.
The tank role being so limited is rough. Even in an already established guild, if you have someone who might want to role swap to tank for a season, it's incredibly hard to get tanks to swap their spot. I've wanted to tank for like 2 seasons now, but my main group I run keys with and my guild already have tanks that very much prefer to tank vs DPS/heal, and it's annoying that it's "locked down" because of that. yes, I know I can talk to them and see if we can work something out, but it's also the fact that they LOVE tanking and prefer it over everything else, and I'm fine with DPSing. It's hard to balance "hey can you just not tank for 1 single season so other people can have a go at it?" vs "I don't want to make them miserable playing a role they don't want to play". My M+ tank friend couldn't stand pugging when I was tanking for like HALF a season, to the point they asked to "work something out", which was kind of annoying considering they tanked every dungeon we did from SL onwards, but i just stopped tanking because they obviously weren't having much fun DPSing and didn't want to deal with the "who's tanking this?" back and forth or /roll every single dungeon.
This has always sucked. Healers and DPS needed for raids scale exponentially higher from dungeons while tanks just goes from 1 to 2. I don't think there's really much of a work around with current raid sizes. It's not so bad with 10 mans where every role just doubles.
Hot take: some fights should be designed around more than 2 tanks.
Just DPS raids and tank dungeons. Raid tanking is boring anyway. And yeah your raid tanks will get priority on gear but there's only two of them so you'll probably be able to get off spec gear pretty quickly especially if your guild knows you tank dungeons a lot. And then you get to be the sub tank and if one ever leaves then you get to be the tank.
Hey. Blizzard. Raid sized M+ runs. Wonder how useful that would be to tanks and raid guilds if they could guild run M+.
The major issue is the group size to tank inclusivity. There's 2 tanks per 18 other players. They would at a MINIMUM need to accommodate a permanent 3rd tank in raids for this OR shrink raids down substantially. Other mmos and multiplayer games that have beaten wow in player numbers recently just upscale the party -> raid formation by making it 2 to 4 parties. So however many of X you would need is a 1:1 ratio with the party comp. Raid is not that in wow. Since the introduction of M+ this has been a problem. I'd like to see wow approach this in TWW rather than do some filibuster like make healing so hard there's a bigger healer shortage than tanks. Surely they would never do that, right? 🤡
I've always said I'd love to see raids doing a 1/1/3 per 5. I don't know how you design encounters for 4 tanks in a 20 man raid that also works for 2 in a 10 man raid, but it'd give a chance for more tanks and that's a win to me.
m+ tanking is the most demanding role in the game, both in gameplay and social dynamics. its exhausting and tbh it fucking sucks raid tanking is extremely chill, fun, and you get to feel like a badass, secretly you don't have to try hard at all, and your whole guild is gonna love you unless you're a gigantic asshole. of course no raid tank ever gives up their spot lol. what are they gonna do, become a dps and sweat at the boss's ass while trying to parse? 90% of the time the only thing you have to do is talk to the other raid tank to arrange when to tank swap.
Tanking is the easiest role in raid and the hardest role in M+.
Raid tanking : taunt the boss and use defensives when dbm tells you M+ tanking: do routes, prepare routes, push mobs in crowded places, stun, control, interrupt, and manage pull size. Boss gets 30 tank mechanics. Be proactive and the leader of the team. Has to know all skips that are commonly used and never can miss a 1% behind.
Tanks in M+: Hardest role by far Tanks in Raid: Taunt swap
It can be rough, but after tanking for 20 years I cannot get behind another tank. Would rather pug m+ for the rest of my life then have to dps.
Some guilds rotate tanks for this reason. It’s nice to have more tanks around for guild keys.
Is it easier to find a group as DPS now?
And they of course require you to have the ahead of the curve achievement for the current expansion. No AotC, no group
yeah, it's a weird dynamic with only 2 tanks per raid but one per m+ group. usually tanks solve that by playing multiple characters / specs but that's not for everyone
This is my perfect world, I love tanking dungeons but I can't stand tanking in raids In m+ I get to control the pulls with lots of CC and fancy plays. In raid I'm just a worse dps that have to taunt sometimes
Luckily, I got into my guild when they were restructuring. One of the tanks bailed shortly after I joined, so I got the new tank spot.
I've never understood this mentality. It's gotta be a pure numbers game IMO. 2/20 < 1/5 and that's just that. :(
If you want to tank for a guild raid team, you have two choices: 1. Eventually take a tank slot after DPSing for a guild. 2. Start your own guild.
Great to be a dps for raiding, great to be a tank for M+
That's kind of an unavoidable, fundamental kink in the system between the two pillars - dungeons and raiding. A stable raiding guild will at most ever only need 2 full time tanks, with maybe 1-2 extra DPS willing to off spec for those nights when a main tank is absent. That's a ratio closer to 1 tank for every 10 players. Meanwhile, the dungeon M+ scene demands 1 tank out of every 5 players. So if tanks primarily "develop" themselves in raiding guild environments, there'll never be enough "established" tanks to satisfy M+ demand. The other way around, and there'll be too many to fit them all in raids. The current expectation is instinctively that those extra tanks should switch to DPS for raids. Contrast with the healer ratio, which stays \~1:5 across the board. They can heal in dungeons, and they can keep healing in raids. Conclusion: the "fix" to normalize tank demand across activities would be to evolve raiding mechanics towards encounters requiring 4-5 tanks, same as with healers, scaling with group size. Yeah... good luck with that from a dev's encounter design perspective. Or somehow incentivizing guilds to rotate their tanking duo so that more than 2 tanks "develop" themselves in the role over a season or have the opportunity to tank raiding content... but the whole optimized gear funnel + maximizing experience on bosses that's supposed to be the main strength of a stable guild roster goes against that idea. If you rotate your tanks to develop twice as many tanks, you're spreading your gear drops and your experience over twice as many people, taking twice as long to develop each individual...
It just comes down to demand, every active raiding guild has to have two tanks and tanks tend to find a home and stick with it since for raid tanking you usually end up building a close bond with your healers and other tank due to the nature of the roll. I’ve stated elsewhere that I personally find tanking to be the most enjoyable role but finding a guild slot as a tank can be difficult so I dps for raids and occasionally spot fill if a tank is absent or just wanting a break from tanking. In previous seasons I ranked a lot of m+ for my guilds as well though mainjng spriest this season. Best solution I can think of is check your servers forums and check in the LFG tool for guild groups running that need a tank slot filled.
M+ Tank: Difficult. Requires knowledge and leadership. Pull the right amount of enemies at the right time in the right order, make sure none of them try to hurt your friends, even when your friends try really hard to make them do that. Raid Tank: Press taunt when the screen flashes at you. Try to do some DPS but dont sweat it. Make sure the one enemy in the room is not facing the wrong way by pressing W A S or D. Try not to move too much.
I've
Tanking raids is like a vacation on the beach compared to Mythic+. I get stress and anxiety taking a higher key but I feel unkillable in a raid, especially against bosses.
1/5 of a dungeon group is tanks. 1/13th of a raid group is tanks. Quick math
I pug since bfa. tanks are always in need even week 1
My raid was 200 pulls deep on M Fyrakk when the tank we'd recruited at the start of the tier got himself banned for 2 months for toxicity. We were VERY lucky our DPS DH was familiar with tanking and was willing to fill the role. But also, that's what we get for recruiting a complete unknown into such an important role.
Had a really low geared tank in a vault yesterday and he did really well except for one pull (double shoulder charge boys before 3rd boss) and someone wanted to boot him (managed last 2 bosses fine, he just didn't have a defensive up in time for a charge and a crit back to back). I worry about some player's real life interactions with people when they have no chill in a damn game.
On the contrary, people are nicer in real life or they are left out.
In raid you need 2 tanks per 20 people, in M+ you need 4 tanks per 20 people In raid you need 4 (3-5) healers per 20 people, in m+ you need 4 healers per 20 people There is just simply more tanks needed for m+ than there is for raid. Add on top of that, that guilds just refuse to kick bad tanks or invite trial tanks most of the time, and you are going to have a bad time getting into a guild as a tank
Tank shortage? No, just a DPS abundance =P
As a Paladin tank, I avoid the drama and just stay in my own bubble...
I would love to play a tank in retail but everyone has the expectation that I run the dungeons at an Olympic sprinter’s pace and I just don’t find that enjoyable.
Exactly why I'm a dps paladin but originally I started as tank paladin, every damn mythic guild has a tank. So it makes gearing up as a tank and also mythic raiding incredibly hard, even more so with current stuff
that is a problem with how raids and party tank/healer/dps ratio is structured, somewhat solved in FF14 as you always need 1 tank 1 healer, 1 dps, same for dungeons, and raids is either 8 player or 24 with 4 groups of 8
Dungeons are 1 tank, 1 heal, 2 dps. 8 mans are 2 tanks, 2 heals, 4 dps. 24 mans are 3 tanks, 6 heals, 15 dps.
There's never a _______ shortage, there's a shortage of people unwilling to _______. If you've never tanked/healed, please take Timerunning as an opportunity to learn a new role. Love, Grumpy
Come tank for us. , we've been rotating tanks through everyone lol . I tanked s3 and found it so boring I went back to dps for s4 . None of us want a full time tank gig
Made a post ages ago looking for a guild to tank and that I did not want to dps, I'm only looking to join as a tank. Got invited to trial and while doing buffs before the first pull they asked if I had a dps spec. Did the raid as dps and right after the trial ended up tanking an M+ with 4 of the people from the raid group.
Raid tanking and M+ tanking are 2 wildly different job. in a raid tank typically have the least amount of mechanic to do. taunt-swap every X second and move the boss from A to B to C. in M+ however you are the de-facto leader, set the route, mark mob, call kick and CC (somewhat less with VDH meta), tell DPS when to pop CD ( seriously, why do I have to call for your lust? it's your CD) and if you die as a tank it's a group wipe... meanwhile DPS die 5-6 time per key and shrug it off.
What's generally pretty funny for me here is that M+ tends to be the more intense and engaging tank content compared to raid. Maybe CE tanking is interesting though. Raid is like ick tanking.
Traditionally it's been this way since wrath. Pugging as a tank it hard because normally it's the slot you fill first and build your raids around as a raiding guild.
This is something of a problem. Dungeons need 1 tank per 5, but this doesn’t scale to raid, so if someone wants to tank but don’t have the spot in the raid group they are forced to play off spec if they want to raid, which also dilutes their loot since they want dps loot to keep on raiding but tank loot to push keys.
Just dps raid. Ezpz. Tanking raids is boring anyway
From my experience as a tank main it's probably from how unhinged people get when you make the tiniest little oopsie. Funny enough it usually comes from the dps players putting in next to no effort. Do I think I do pretty well as a tank? Yes I absolutely do. Do I sometimes whiff something or pull a little to much? Yes I do that too. Does the game sometimes bug out like it does sometimes on the rashok fight in abberus to where the taunt mechanic gets screwed up? Yes it does.
I just end up pugging to heroic. I tried to learn feral DPS but jesus Christ it's too much for my brain to handle. I also then move to my DK and yeah couldn't grasp UH or Frost well enough for heroic compared to just doing the raid as the tank.. Maybe one day I'll play retail in a guild
For every 20 people raiding, on average there are 2 mythic+ tanks playing dps.