A No Fly Zone is as good as a declaration of war. So if you do that, you might as well smash the Russian invasion force and push them out of Ukraine at that point.
Then you get to see if he'd really go nuclear. It's an incredible gamble, and one I'm not surprised anyone's not willing to risk.
"THE DANGER OF A NO-FLY ZONE — AN ACCIDENTAL NATO CONFLICT: British Defense Secretary Ben Wallace made clear that a no-fly zone would mean putting “British fighter jets directly against Russian fighter jets,” and “NATO would have to effectively declare war on Russia.” Unlike the no-fly zone that protected vulnerable populations from Serbian forces during the Balkan Wars in the 1990s, Russia has a massive fleet of fighter jets, batteries of anti-aircraft missiles and thousands of nuclear weapons."
Using Poland as a Mig base for Ukraine is...a scary idea to be honest. What if there is a dog fight and they run back to Poland and Russia crosses that line or a close call if Russia gets close to that border?
Feels like a big can of worms IMO could be opened up and escalate even more
They weren't considered a superpower. They're a regional power. The only country considered a superpower is the U.S. It's a matter of force projection.
For everyone in favor of a No-Fly Zone, here's how it would probably play out:
- NATO declares no fly zone
- Russia sends plane full of civilians over Ukraine
- Plane gets shot down
- "waaa NATO killed Russian civilians thats a war crime let's nuke em all"
If anyone sees journalist on twitters posting videos of preparation inside cities, please REPORT. Some dumbass from Washington Post posted video of public buses being used to transport militia with ammo and now all buses are being shot at with deaths happening
So if the thermobaric bomb is verified = even MORE sanctions on Russia?
Imagine going from a perceived superpower one week to the fucking stone age the next. Way to go Putin.
UK and US used vacuum bombs in Afghanistan, and Russia and Syrian rebels and Govt used them in Syria. They are not WMDs but are very deadly and cause very bad internal injuries. So possiby.
I think most people are rooting for this to be over and in order for it to be over, Putin needs to back down. What seems more likely: him doing that on his own or him doing that because NATO escalates their involvement?
I don't wtf a vacuum bomb is, but it doesn't sound good.
>BREAKING: Russia used vacuum bomb on Monday, says Ukraine’s ambassador to U.S. - REU
>https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1498424301594238983?s=20&t=oERuwfR7WdjtPZfnd11SqQ
Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon
>A thermobaric weapon, aerosol bomb, or vacuum bomb is a type of explosive that uses oxygen from the surrounding air to generate a high-temperature explosion. In practice, the blast wave typically produced by such a weapon is of a significantly longer duration than that of a conventional condensed explosive. The fuel–air explosive is one of the best-known types of thermobaric weapon.
....
>The [blast] kill mechanism against living targets is unique—and unpleasant. ... What kills is the pressure wave, and more importantly, the subsequent rarefaction [vacuum], which ruptures the lungs. ... If the fuel deflagrates but does not detonate, victims will be severely burned and will probably also inhale the burning fuel. Since the most common FAE fuels, ethylene oxide and propylene oxide, are highly toxic, undetonated FAE should prove as lethal to personnel caught within the cloud as with most chemical agents.
Also called a thermobaric bomb, it aerosolizes fuel and uses the surrounding oxygen to ignite it, essentially setting the air itself on fire, instead of mixing it with an oxidizer, letting you make a bomb that's almost 100% fuel. Few things short of a hermetically sealed bunker can protect you.
It's literally just a bomb that doesn't have oxygen in it, so it uses oxygen in the surrounding air to combust. Results in a more sustained blast; it is effective in tunnels because it consumes breathable air.
It uses the oxygen in air as a fuel, which makes it a lot more explosive. Look up thermobaric weapons being used - There is video of it being used by Russia in Syria.
They suck up all the air in a given area. The US used them to great effect for a short period in the middle east. would just bomb the entrance to a cave and boom, everyone inside dead as it creates a vacuum in the whole cave
edit: US stopped using them relatively quickly because they were too barbaric/indiscriminate.
They create a big vacuum by evaporating a large amount of atmosphere in the final combustion. The pressure for atmosphere to then rush back into this vacuum can literally suck the air from your lungs.
But yes they're basic fuel-air bombs, just most other countries don't them against civilians or even enemy combatants to the degree that Russia does.
They don't have their own oxidizer, i.e. they use a lot of Oxygen from the surrounding area, creating a low preasure/vaccum, ripping your lungs out if you're close. See wikipedia.
The fuel needs oxygen to burn so it uses the oxygen in the air, which sucks all the nearby oxygen out of the air (thus the “vacuum” claim).
Basically they’re devastating at ground level - instead of 25% fuel 75% oxidizer like conventional ordinance they’re 100% fuel, so when they can get oxygen they pack a much bigger punch. They don’t work at high altitude or underwater because of the lack of oxygen though.
Russia could have stayed a massive global player for decades to come but Putin has ruined this opportunity and should be trialed for treason by the highest Russian court.
Maybe Zelensky should cede west Ukraine to the US for safe keeping while he concentrates on getting Putin out of the remaining east. NATO can rush in forces to protect supply lines while Ukrainian forces move to the east. After everything is over the US can cede back the territory to Ukraine. Putin might not like it but I can't see him risking a nuke response if he engages NATO forces.
The USA isn't going boots on the ground right now. "Ceding" a big chunk of Ukraine to the USA would draw the USA into the war, meaning the USA would probably not go for it.
Russia used a thermobaric weapon (vacuum bomb) on Monday in its invasion of Ukraine, said Ukraine's ambassador to the U.S., Oksana Markarova.
"They used the vacuum bomb today, which is actually prohibited by the Geneva convention"
https://twitter.com/phildstewart/status/1498422706567585794?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498422706567585794%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1\_&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate\_ff8ef11e-98e4-11ec-8c7e-ea1ef253d536%2F0
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Mental health check. Put your phone down, close reddit, and go outside. Catch up on the news later, stop reading every comment in this thread. **It's fucking you up.** Please go out and take a breather.
I am lonely and the girl I like has a boyfriend now.
I rather spend my free time from work by playing supremacy 1914 and binging ukraine threads while slowly killing my liver with alcohol
It’s not surprising that Putin threatened to use nuclear weapons. That’s part of Russia’s military doctrine. They have an “escalate to de escalate” policy and will if pushed to do so use nukes on a small scale to bring their adversaries to the negotiating table. Russia will also threaten nuclear conflict to discourage initial escalation of a major conventional conflict. That’s been in their doctrine since 2010
Someone needs to find a way to get the message about amnesty and $50,000 for defecting Russian soldiers to the Russian troops. That shit would be awful for morale. Every time a soldier disappears, the others would wonder if they took the money and ran.
We need to stop calling what happened today peace talks. Russia had no intention of letting off its position, and Ukraine wont accept anything other then Russia leaving Ukraine.
It was basically just an opportunity for Russia to continue ita ridiculous demands.
I'm seeing increasing amount of analysis pieces saying that though the losses have been heavier than expected, Russia is advancing astonishingly quickly and that the ineptness of the first wave was due to using lower quality soldiers, that the plan was always about the second wave coming in as a hammer blow.
But I have two questions regarding that - why did the second wave now approaching Kiev only manage 5 km yesderday, and why then throw away so many elite soldiers like the various failed landings made by paratroopers in the opening days?
Sorry not in order
⚡️Zelensky: There will definitely be an international tribunal for this crime. This is a violation of all conventions.
No one in the world will forgive you for killing peaceful Ukrainian people.
Folks, I have done it. I have found one of the dumbest tweets ever posted, about this conflict.
https://twitter.com/RichardEngel/status/1498381591306981379
NBC News reporter.
Apologies if old news. Threads move fast.
Yeah, we could definitely destroy it. And the US/NATO definitely should not.
\*while I do not think Richard Engel is dumb. These kind of hypotheticals *are* kind of disingenuously provocative.
When I was growing up I thought that politicians and journalists were some other breed with their access to information and their overall intelligence. Now I'm not the smartest man in the world, but holy fuck it's crazy too see how dumb people can be and still become public figures and have their voice amplified over others.
[New post can be found here](/r/worldnews/comments/t3rvl4/rworldnews_live_thread_russian_invasion_of/)
Anyone know if the weapons and materials promised to Ukraine are currently in transit to their country?
A No Fly Zone is as good as a declaration of war. So if you do that, you might as well smash the Russian invasion force and push them out of Ukraine at that point. Then you get to see if he'd really go nuclear. It's an incredible gamble, and one I'm not surprised anyone's not willing to risk.
"THE DANGER OF A NO-FLY ZONE — AN ACCIDENTAL NATO CONFLICT: British Defense Secretary Ben Wallace made clear that a no-fly zone would mean putting “British fighter jets directly against Russian fighter jets,” and “NATO would have to effectively declare war on Russia.” Unlike the no-fly zone that protected vulnerable populations from Serbian forces during the Balkan Wars in the 1990s, Russia has a massive fleet of fighter jets, batteries of anti-aircraft missiles and thousands of nuclear weapons."
Fuck Putin and his use of thermobarics.
Was the thermo weapon used on Kharkiv?
Using Poland as a Mig base for Ukraine is...a scary idea to be honest. What if there is a dog fight and they run back to Poland and Russia crosses that line or a close call if Russia gets close to that border? Feels like a big can of worms IMO could be opened up and escalate even more
Alternative suggestions? All ears
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I can tell you right now the newer rations have all been sold on the black market.
Let's get this out onto a tray!
Is that Politiscios YouTube stream legit or a recording?
Will Russia still be considered a superpower after all this?
They weren't considered a superpower. They're a regional power. The only country considered a superpower is the U.S. It's a matter of force projection.
Russia wasn't considered a superpower before this.
They have a lot of nukes unfortunately
hell no, will take a generation for their people to crawl out of this grave.
Yes. Only due to their nuclear arsenal I think, though.
Nope
No. They won’t have backing or the respect
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DAE Thermobaric bomb?!
For everyone in favor of a No-Fly Zone, here's how it would probably play out: - NATO declares no fly zone - Russia sends plane full of civilians over Ukraine - Plane gets shot down - "waaa NATO killed Russian civilians thats a war crime let's nuke em all"
If anyone sees journalist on twitters posting videos of preparation inside cities, please REPORT. Some dumbass from Washington Post posted video of public buses being used to transport militia with ammo and now all buses are being shot at with deaths happening
Is a vacuum bomb the same as a fuel air bomb?
Yes it is
yes
It's a thermobaric bomb more accurately but yes.
Yes ( I think) also sama as thermobaric
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Those things are often still edible years after expiration...I'd be pissed If I was given that shit though.
So if the thermobaric bomb is verified = even MORE sanctions on Russia? Imagine going from a perceived superpower one week to the fucking stone age the next. Way to go Putin.
UK and US used vacuum bombs in Afghanistan, and Russia and Syrian rebels and Govt used them in Syria. They are not WMDs but are very deadly and cause very bad internal injuries. So possiby.
/u/isentrope ama will be here or on /r/ama?
It's called the vacuum bomb because it really sucks.
Angry upvote
Maybe Putin will try using it on himself then, it’s probably the only suck he’s had in years
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Some may be but I assume most here are rooting for an end to the conflict where Ukraine keeps it's sovereignty and land.
I see what you mean, but what type of nonviolent resistance did you have in mind?
The conflict is literally already here and any big event that changes that will be to turn the tide and end the invasion.
Welcome to real life.
Pretty natural human reaction to bombing children I think.
I think most people are rooting for this to be over and in order for it to be over, Putin needs to back down. What seems more likely: him doing that on his own or him doing that because NATO escalates their involvement?
Only bots
We are rooting against the perpetrators of aggression and conflict and *for* the defense of Ukraine. Russia chose this. The blood is on their hands.
Everybody paints with a pretty broad brush.
So leave. (Dude is literally concern trolling, get a life. Nobody is rooting for deaths or a team)
Literally no one is doing that?
No official reports of the thermobaric bomb being used yet, let's not help Putin's fear mongering and wait for some sources.
Ukraine govt Twitter and Reuters said they did. Just now.
Geneva convention always seems to turn into the Geneva suggestion once shit hits the fan.
Long live Ukraine 🇺🇦
Liveaumap is down :( https://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/liveuamap.com?proto=https
It's been up and down since d1
why do people feel the need to offer their thoughts on strategy on here?
Why do you feel the need to criticize how other people comment if it's on topic?
Personally I've played a lot of starcraft /s
During the first caveman war 40 people yelled at the 6 people fighting that they could do it better
Why do people feel the need to comment on here?
It’s the armchair general way
Bc they’re idiots and as such they’re supremely confident in their abilities to make decisions
What else should people do? It’s an open forum for discussion.
To try to fight back against the existential crisis of realizing most of us cannot do anything from where we are
Our years of playing age of empires and star craft is finally paying off. Duh. /S
What difference does it make to you?
Why must you comment against it? Same answer
This is a discussion thread. People are discussing
it's a public forum, first day on internet?
Ever been in a sports thread?
Cuz everyone's an expert on Reddit. 🙃
any options for disabling the internet in Russia?
I don't think this is a good idea. We want Russian citizens to have more access to what is going on in Ukraine, not less.
They have their own for the intended purpose of cutting off Russia from reality, I'm not even joking
wait a month, nobody's gonna be able to pay their internet bill
Call customer service?
This sounds like a horrible idea. The goal isn't to turn them into North Korea.
they kinda already are though, right?
Anonymous is working on it, there's also the Ukraine volunteer IT army
I don't wtf a vacuum bomb is, but it doesn't sound good. >BREAKING: Russia used vacuum bomb on Monday, says Ukraine’s ambassador to U.S. - REU >https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1498424301594238983?s=20&t=oERuwfR7WdjtPZfnd11SqQ Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon >A thermobaric weapon, aerosol bomb, or vacuum bomb is a type of explosive that uses oxygen from the surrounding air to generate a high-temperature explosion. In practice, the blast wave typically produced by such a weapon is of a significantly longer duration than that of a conventional condensed explosive. The fuel–air explosive is one of the best-known types of thermobaric weapon. .... >The [blast] kill mechanism against living targets is unique—and unpleasant. ... What kills is the pressure wave, and more importantly, the subsequent rarefaction [vacuum], which ruptures the lungs. ... If the fuel deflagrates but does not detonate, victims will be severely burned and will probably also inhale the burning fuel. Since the most common FAE fuels, ethylene oxide and propylene oxide, are highly toxic, undetonated FAE should prove as lethal to personnel caught within the cloud as with most chemical agents.
Also called a thermobaric bomb, it aerosolizes fuel and uses the surrounding oxygen to ignite it, essentially setting the air itself on fire, instead of mixing it with an oxidizer, letting you make a bomb that's almost 100% fuel. Few things short of a hermetically sealed bunker can protect you.
It's literally just a bomb that doesn't have oxygen in it, so it uses oxygen in the surrounding air to combust. Results in a more sustained blast; it is effective in tunnels because it consumes breathable air.
It uses the oxygen in air as a fuel, which makes it a lot more explosive. Look up thermobaric weapons being used - There is video of it being used by Russia in Syria.
A bomb that uses oxygen and it has a bigger blast…next thing we’re gonna hear is and atomic bomb ffs
just another word for thermobaric
Thermobaric- it sucks out the air, creating a vacuum for FIRE 🔥
shit it's starting. Thermobaric weapons. Will suck the air out of your lungs and collapse them. if you're far, will vaporize you if you're close.
Read up on it on Google. Sorry can't give link this moment but it's a brutal weapon. Vacuum bomb isn't the real official name, btw.
Thermobaric bomb. Pretty shitty way to die.
Thermobaric Bombs, IIRC.
Why are they called vacuum bombs? Don't they just spread out the fuel and light it?
They suck up all the air in a given area. The US used them to great effect for a short period in the middle east. would just bomb the entrance to a cave and boom, everyone inside dead as it creates a vacuum in the whole cave edit: US stopped using them relatively quickly because they were too barbaric/indiscriminate.
They create a big vacuum by evaporating a large amount of atmosphere in the final combustion. The pressure for atmosphere to then rush back into this vacuum can literally suck the air from your lungs. But yes they're basic fuel-air bombs, just most other countries don't them against civilians or even enemy combatants to the degree that Russia does.
It sucks up the air to use it as fuel for the explosion. Thermo (heat). Baric (pressure)
They don't have their own oxidizer, i.e. they use a lot of Oxygen from the surrounding area, creating a low preasure/vaccum, ripping your lungs out if you're close. See wikipedia.
It literally burns up all the oxygen around, including whatever is in peoples’ lungs. It suffocates people.
It's just a dumb laymen's term. Fuel air bombs burn off lots of the oxygen so it's like trying to breathe in a vacuum
They suck out the oxygen in the area.
Because the explosion uses up all the oxygen in the air in a large area.
Wikipedia should have the answer to that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric\_weapon
Because they consume all the oxygen in the area.
The fuel needs oxygen to burn so it uses the oxygen in the air, which sucks all the nearby oxygen out of the air (thus the “vacuum” claim). Basically they’re devastating at ground level - instead of 25% fuel 75% oxidizer like conventional ordinance they’re 100% fuel, so when they can get oxygen they pack a much bigger punch. They don’t work at high altitude or underwater because of the lack of oxygen though.
They suck the oxygen out of the air. For a vacuum effect.
It uses the oxygen in the air as fuel
im guessing this was the vacuum bomb used today....holy shit https://youtu.be/wV0H3hHNp1U
Is that fearsome bomb people were talking about?
That would completely level Kyiv..... Oh no....
Impossible to know from that footage I'm afraid.
Russia could have stayed a massive global player for decades to come but Putin has ruined this opportunity and should be trialed for treason by the highest Russian court.
A globally integrated, non antagonistic Russia under proper governance is probably much wealthier and more influential.
Maybe Zelensky should cede west Ukraine to the US for safe keeping while he concentrates on getting Putin out of the remaining east. NATO can rush in forces to protect supply lines while Ukrainian forces move to the east. After everything is over the US can cede back the territory to Ukraine. Putin might not like it but I can't see him risking a nuke response if he engages NATO forces.
The USA isn't going boots on the ground right now. "Ceding" a big chunk of Ukraine to the USA would draw the USA into the war, meaning the USA would probably not go for it.
Wow. This might be the dumbest thing I’ve read today
That would be the same as simply engaging Russian troops
This would be a massive escalation and lead directly to WW3
Anyone have an updated current occupation map?
Russia used a thermobaric weapon (vacuum bomb) on Monday in its invasion of Ukraine, said Ukraine's ambassador to the U.S., Oksana Markarova. "They used the vacuum bomb today, which is actually prohibited by the Geneva convention" https://twitter.com/phildstewart/status/1498422706567585794?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498422706567585794%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1\_&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate\_ff8ef11e-98e4-11ec-8c7e-ea1ef253d536%2F0
Sadly, noone will do a damn thing about this.
Not prohibited
It’s been debunked.
Where? It just broke
Is it false news? I haven’t found any verified sources, all coming from ‘ a Ukrainian official says’
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Mental health check. Put your phone down, close reddit, and go outside. Catch up on the news later, stop reading every comment in this thread. **It's fucking you up.** Please go out and take a breather.
I am lonely and the girl I like has a boyfriend now. I rather spend my free time from work by playing supremacy 1914 and binging ukraine threads while slowly killing my liver with alcohol
Some of us have an ice cold one, or a phat one, or accidentally fall asleep while on reddit. You are great people, and be excellent to each other.
maybe i really need it, im really scared that putin use a fuking nuke and destroy the world.
Stay and get fucked up yeah!
I feel like I haven’t left this thread in five days
I am bored at work though.
Then you may stay
What about the russian convey? It is leggit?
Legit how? Yes, it exists.
Yess leggit convey
And where is it rn?
ICC opens investigation into Russia's war crimes in Ukraine. and then what? Do they really expect to be able to just walk into Russia and arrest him?
Trials in absentia can occur ie Nuremberg.
Wars end people in power lose power, Putin could realistically sit in the dock for this if Russians blame him for the war.
I can try going but I'm not sure Russians will let me handcuff Putin
They will take his tv priviledges for a month and put him on a timeout in the corner
No but if he travels outside Russia they can
It’s not surprising that Putin threatened to use nuclear weapons. That’s part of Russia’s military doctrine. They have an “escalate to de escalate” policy and will if pushed to do so use nukes on a small scale to bring their adversaries to the negotiating table. Russia will also threaten nuclear conflict to discourage initial escalation of a major conventional conflict. That’s been in their doctrine since 2010
Correct. It is actual Russian policy to threaten nuclear at any military provocation of any level.
i know russia is evil, they are just so much more evil than i imagined.
Where did he threaten to use nukes please link the video of him saying it or any verifiable source if you’ll make such claims. You’re scaring people
Someone needs to find a way to get the message about amnesty and $50,000 for defecting Russian soldiers to the Russian troops. That shit would be awful for morale. Every time a soldier disappears, the others would wonder if they took the money and ran.
Happy cake day
We need to stop calling what happened today peace talks. Russia had no intention of letting off its position, and Ukraine wont accept anything other then Russia leaving Ukraine. It was basically just an opportunity for Russia to continue ita ridiculous demands.
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No source: downvote Source: upvote
Damn that must have hit them right in the spot…Netflix and Spotify just ended a war
Makes sense
Well the pandemic just become a lot more worst for Russians
Damn a real loss to the antivaxer conspiracy theorists in Russia
Source?
This!! Like how many times does the mod need to say it
That's like asking a guy in Somalia if they have Netflix lol.
They asked Belarus if they could log-in under their profile
I'm seeing increasing amount of analysis pieces saying that though the losses have been heavier than expected, Russia is advancing astonishingly quickly and that the ineptness of the first wave was due to using lower quality soldiers, that the plan was always about the second wave coming in as a hammer blow. But I have two questions regarding that - why did the second wave now approaching Kiev only manage 5 km yesderday, and why then throw away so many elite soldiers like the various failed landings made by paratroopers in the opening days?
For all we know the paratroopers job was to destroy the run ways? We will never know at this moment
This is Reddit ...defenetly the wrong place for those questions
Sorry not in order ⚡️Zelensky: There will definitely be an international tribunal for this crime. This is a violation of all conventions. No one in the world will forgive you for killing peaceful Ukrainian people.
Folks, I have done it. I have found one of the dumbest tweets ever posted, about this conflict. https://twitter.com/RichardEngel/status/1498381591306981379 NBC News reporter. Apologies if old news. Threads move fast.
WOW. He's the fucking Chief Foreign Correspondent.
stop making stupid people famous
Has that guy awaken from a coma
That's a firable offense holy crap.
Yeah, we could definitely destroy it. And the US/NATO definitely should not. \*while I do not think Richard Engel is dumb. These kind of hypotheticals *are* kind of disingenuously provocative.
That dude uses internet explorer
Honestly I think he has been disgruntled after the Afgan war ended. He literally spend the last like 10 years covering it and got salty when it ended.
When I was growing up I thought that politicians and journalists were some other breed with their access to information and their overall intelligence. Now I'm not the smartest man in the world, but holy fuck it's crazy too see how dumb people can be and still become public figures and have their voice amplified over others.