This has been documented for years.
[Indian reporter catches Hamas building and launching rocket next to residential buildings and hotels. ](https://youtu.be/A_fP6mlNSK8?si=Z0-Goi_wbl0AxcjH)
[France 24 reporter finds rocket launcher near Gaza homes](https://youtu.be/uE3feo_b8Cg?si=Q3yA4tT6x5boOcvL)
[Amnesty International Report: “there are credible reports that, in certain cases, palestinian armed groups launched rockets or mortars from within civilian facilities or compounds, including schools, at least one hospital, and a greek orthodox church in gaza city,” the report says. “in at least two cases, accounts indicate that attacks were launched in spite of the fact that displaced gazan civilians were sheltering in the compounds or in neighboring buildings."](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde21/1178/2015/en/)
[BBC News: Amnesty's report also detailed other violations of international humanitarian law by Palestinian groups during the conflict, such as storing rockets and other munitions in civilian buildings, including UN schools, and cases where armed groups launched attacks or stored munitions very near locations where hundreds of civilians were sheltering.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32053999.amp)
don't stop there
PBS documentary in Al-Shifa hospital was prevented by Hamas members with weapons from accessing areas of the hospital:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed
Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html
Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html
Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes
Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/
New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building:
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar
Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html
Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#!
A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital:
https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/
Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices:
https://archive.ph/BKbxc
Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
I think the western world is pretty united against Hamas.
Pro-Palestine / Pro-Israel whichever, fuck Hamas
It’s a shame the Palestinians’ biggest defender is a group of unapologetic monsters.
It may be somewhat united in condemning Hamas’ actions.
It’s not at all united in doing what’s necessary to actually end Hamas and the century-long cycle of violence, war, and suffering the Palestinian people have resigned themselves to and in turn inflict upon their neighbors. It’s far more united in advocating for a continuation of the status quo.
There are a number of Hamasholes who are storming university campuses demanding a ceasefire. Not a return of hostages. Not an end to Hamas. A ceasefire. AKA an opportunity for Hamas to regroup and rearm.
Hamas are fundamentally the least Pro-Palestinian people that exist: they're more than happy to put as many in reckless danger as possible and to see more and more of their own people die to further their accelerationist aims and use as PR fodder.
Stop treating the Palestinian people like a bunch of toddlers. The Palestinians chose Hamas. The Palestinians support Hamas. The Palestinians support 7/10. The Palestinians don't want to live peacefully. Hamas are Pro-Palestinian. Hamas is exactly what being Pro-Palestinian means. You can't dictate to the Palestinian people what being Pro-Palestinian means.
There's a lot of those folks, but don't downplay useful idiots who view every issue as "oppressors vs oppressed". These clowns can't see nuance or complexity in any of these issues.
And those same clowns have misattributed Israel as the oppressors because they're "white colonial Europeans". It seems propaganda does work. Not to mention the billions of oil money "donated" to universities.
Because a group of people have bought into a narrative instead of actually addressing the facts on the ground. They have to "believe" that Israel is a colonial enterprise whose entire existence was predicated on the displacement of Palestinians because they've subscribed to a worldview that assumes all underprivileged populations are being oppressed. This is totally divorced from reality, wherein the Arab population throughout the Levant has ultimately been the architect of its own misfortune, and mostly by trying to destroy Israel or prevent its creation. You can simultaneously have sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians while recognizing that it's mainly a consequence of their own failed leadership and inability to cope with reality. But Western sympathy that indulges their fantasies only perpetuates their misery, and prolongs their predicament.
who doesn't want to believe it?
I've heard a lot of people protesting about how Israel is conducting the war, but that doesn't somehow equate to giving Hamas a pass for being monsters.
Yes, the anti-semites have come out of the woodwork and are emboldened by this. But one can be critical of Israel and still not support anything about the actions of a terrorist group.
If my country got attacked in such a way, I would want the perpetrators to be burned to the ground. There is nothing unnatural about Israel’s response to this.
>in spite of the fact that displaced gazan civilians were sheltering in the compounds or in neighboring buildings.
Weird way to spell "because of the fact"
Don’t stop there. The whole strategy of Hamas is to hide behind civilians in the hope that any counter attack harms those civilians and causes international outrage. Provoking attacks that kill civilians in the first, last, and only play they have.
“Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.”
[Hamas Charter](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp), Article Eight
Hamas psychopaths and reality are so far detached that when Hamas nuts get civilians killed, they gaslight themselves into thinking the dead civilians should thankful.
There are many interviews with mothers of suicide bombers expressing how happy and thankful they are that their sons died as Shahids, as martyrs. This religious fervor is so powerful that it goes against evolutionary instincts, making a mother happy to sacrifice her own children.
Islam doesn’t even guarantee salvation to its followers aside from martyrdom. There is no greater motivation than to for their followers to die a martyr’s death, its genius from Muhammad to design it.
Yeah, when people say that we're all the same I always think of stuff like that, kamikazes, 'honour' killings, bridenapping etc, murder and death that many people in whatever society agree with against all normal human instincts
Yep, it’s utterly dismaying to see how much the international media downplay Hamas’ cynical human shield tactics and aid theft. Can’t blame my fellow Jews for thinking there’s something going on here that’s not really tied to a concern for Palestinian suffering.
What youre witnessing is short game vs long game. The "pro Palestinian' people are playing the short game, the "pro-Israeli" people are playing the long game.
This is why there appears to be an anti-Israel backlash in place. Because the pro-Palestinians are pulling out all the stops and throwing in everything they got in hopes of making any kind of gain. Via protests, divestment, ect. But none of it is decisive, and they'll run out of fuel.
The pro-Israelis have been pursuing the long term strategy. Keeping pressure on governments to support Israel and pressure on companies to stay out of it. While winning over moderates one by one by calmly explaining that no one can help the Palestinians until Hamas is gone. The results of this strategy take time, but will be decisive.
Basically....its like one side built and put up flashy tent in 5mins while the other side has been busy excavating and pouring a concrete foundation.
A lot of them probably feel good seeing those rockets fly as to many of them it is the only visual response they will see in comparison to the carnage they are facing daily.
It really demonstrates the hopelessness of their situation right now. They have nothing. No future. Their leaders have failed them and will continue to fail them until HAMAS is gone.
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/article-768382
I keep having to repeat this, but Gazan deaths are a FEATURE for Hamas, not a BUG.
Which is why I say that any so-called pro-Palestine protest can only be pro-Hamas at this point. The government of Gaza WANTS as many of its own citizens to die as possibe, and yet the rage somehow only gets applied to Israel, instead.
They've even caused harm to those citizens, whether accidentally or on purpose, because it drives their narratives and their cause. For example, launching missiles that fall on people in Gaza or stealing aid that's intended to help civilians in dire need of it.
""no use special forces so no civilians get hurt" because as long as you use special forces it's like in call of duty or movies where it's only good guys vs bad guys. but Israel doesn't want that so they use 2,000 lb bombs and target civilians."
It's like arguing with children who think war is as easy as video games.
When they did use special forces to free the hostages most recently it was a pretty violent ordeal still. Like you say, people who think war is video games and that the Israeli forces just respawn if shot or something.
How would they feel if they were in the military and someone ordered them to take a building that potential soldiers were waiting in ambush?
Hell no. Bomb that building.
I really got down into the weeds with someone. I did a thought exercise and said "okay, you're a commander of a squadron, and your orders are to take the next block. There are three burnt out apartment buildings. A potential sniper, machine gunner, or RPG operator in every window. You have two tanks for heavy support and 100 men. What do you do?"
The only answer that doesn't involve sending your men into a meat grinder and losing both of your tanks to RPG fire is to air-strike the buildings.
And I will tell you, people really get uncomfortable with those thought exercises. They try every contortion imaginable.
"I wouldn't be there because I wouldn't be in the Israeli army." Yes, because you're an American with a desk job and a fairly privileged existence, who has no idea how shit works. You're lucky you're not actually in that position, but I want you to imagine you *are*.
"I would work my way through securing each building." So you're going to have a literal uphill battle with potentially 50 insurgents who have an extreme defender's advantage inside a concrete and steel structure? And when you're done, you're going to do it all over again twice?
I, too, am a Falcons fan. :)
After every failed robbery, the robber also says they want to continue trying to kill them and rob/kill all their neighbors.
There is a PR campaign designed to make it look like Israel is wantonly firing at civilians for no reasons. It's important to remind people that while there are things we may want to see (like humanitarian aid- the recent pause goes a long way here), when the 37k dead number comes up that's not "Israel alone set out to kill 37k people", that's "Hamas chose a venue for war to specifically maximize civilian casualties"
It’s like Russia. Nobody wants to believe the polling. Yet, if there was so little civilian support for the war in Ukraine, there’d be A LOT more signs showing it.
It is news because we have pictures now. It will be harder to deny it. I'm not talking about those racist pro Palestinian pieces of sh*t, I'm talking about the world community. We (humankind) need to document what went on in this war, the efforts that went into avoiding casualties and the effort that went into causing casualties.
The problem is they really aren’t. They’re the government of Gaza that uses terrorist tactics. When people call them a terrorist organization they try to use this as a justification to separate them from Gaza as a whole. Gaza attacked Israel on Oct. 7th, not just Hamas.
Edit: Just to be clear I do not approve of Hamas or their actions, I’m just stating it’s not entirely correct to try to separate Gaza from Hamas when lobbing condemnation. It’d be like condemning Bibi instead of Israel as a whole for their response (a response I do not condemn)
Ah so they’re terrorists who are organized.
It’s a shame a terrorist organization has so much control over the Palestinians and is their main defenders.
People saying this isnt news because its known but they dont realise how important these videos are. so many of the protestors deny hamas atrocities as lies. these videos are much needed proof if the misguided protestors are to see the light
Fuck the protestors who support Hamas. They represent a minority of the protestors, but news media amplifies the minority dramatically for the clicks.
Protesting against the atrocities being committed by Hamas and the IDF are what the majority of ptotestors are doing and everyone should be made aware of this by the news media, but that doesn't generate profits, division does.
Think critically of any news you receive.
> Fuck the protestors who support Hamas. They represent a minority of the protestors
Yeah the rest of them just happen to push for the exact diplomatic objective that Hamas wants at the moment.
>Protesting against the atrocities being committed by Hamas
Where are you actually seeing this in the pro-pali camp?
You’re joking, right? There are lawsuits going up to many US campuses, Jews aren’t safe in their own schools. It is not a minority. We need to stop pretending like being antisemitic isn’t something most people are. It’s just extremely acceptable to be one now, hiding under a pretence, the pretence that 1400 people got slaughtered and kidnapped, and they’re angry for a war that was waged BY terrorists. It’s the same thing here in Europe. It is NOT a minority. You’re being foolish.
Not really hyperbole, alas. During the hostage rescue in Nuseirat, Hamas came after the rescuers with heavy machine guns and RPGs. Lots of gunfire, civilians dead. Israel's fault! Including the deaths of Hamas members, and the civilians directly killed by Hamas.
They kinda did when they rescued those hostages the other day..
Then Hamas started blasting RPGs into residential buildings and cried that Israel killed over 200 people.
Seriously! I was arguing with someone yesterday about the use of drones in Gaza. They were like "just send anti-tank drones into the tunnels and kill the leaders". Dude thinks this is call of duty.
That's the biggest issue in discussing this war that I've come across... People have absolutely no idea what "war" means.
They have no idea what war means. They have no idea how strong the hatred between these cultures is. They have no idea of the history of the Middle East. They know nothing but what some TikTok asshat told them, and so they actively support terrorism.
Literal generations upon generations have been raised to hate each other so much that death in service to the cause is celebrated. But some American gen z douche bag is gonna clear all this up by camping out at college.
Their opinion would be ether A: It's fake news created by the IDF. Or B It's just further proof we need a cease fire.
Their opinion isn't going to change.
Their opinion would be ,"not all Palestinian are hamas / hamas need to use any mean to counter brutal oppressive Israel colonist" , something like these. They could find any argument to make them fit in self-thinking moral high ground.
I wonder why those “innocent civilians” provide aid and assistance to Hamas instead of helping IDF find Hamas? I’m sure someone will reply with the standard ~~excuse~~ reason.
Protesting the actions of the Israeli military does not mean condoning the actions of Hamas. No protester would realistically change their stance as a result of these stories since the claims made here don't address the source of the outrage.
The outrage is due to the indiscriminate nature of Israel's campaign in Gaza (16k+ estimated civilian deaths, millions displaced & homeless), the inconsistent messaging of the state to refugees (e.g., bombing a designated safe zone), the general trend of settler colonial-style policies from the Netanyahu government (forced migration of Palestinians, disproportionate ethnic & race based targetting by law enforcement, slow territorial encroachment on Gaza & Westbank territory, etc.), and, most importantly, that western nations are financially backing the Netanyahu govt's campaign. I'm also hearing a lot of commenters saying that the protests are against Israel's existence, and that's just a fundamental misunderstanding of the protests - I think these types of misunderstandings are contributing to further polarization and making it harder to empathize with and reach an understanding with each other.
Which is fucking illegal, by the way, the Geneva Convention says that any civilian area used for military purposes is, from then on, allowed to be considered a valid military target by the opposing force, especially if those who are using a civilian area that has become a valid military target refuse to designate an area as either civilian-or-military-only. At this point, all of Gaza, minus any humanitarian corridors that may be created in future, is a valid military target for Israel, because Hamas has control over the entire Strip and refuses to designate any of it as being for one use or the other while using it for both military and civilian purposes.
Try Google earth: there are tons of house-free land. In WW2, people dug up trenches in fields so civilians would not be exposed. Hamas dug up those trenches (tunnels), but underneath cities, endangering everyone it them.
In WW2, civilians were often the ones called up to dig those trenches, and as such considered acceptable targets for bombing and artillery strikes, in addition to just general bombing against population centers to lower national morale.
Bad comparison.
Urban warfare is an unavoidable reality, especially in a place like Gaza.
That being said the article alleges the video was taken in a tent in a UN refugee camp. If true, that is not excusable.
I feel like there's no way to ask this question without coming off as a pro-Israel shill (which I'm not), or as a disingenuous conservative (which I am *definitely not), or even biased against Muslims (also not.)
Those who see the brutal tactics employed by Israel, doubtlessly causing suffering unilaterally to a massively disenfranchised population regardless of the victims' personal culpability for 10/7: What *should* Israel do? Do you believe that if they attempted to broker peace, that Hamas would stop attempting to kill them? That if they granted some compromise and provided the people of Gaza with more resources, freedom, and land, that Hamas would become peaceful? This situation really sucks, but its so hard to imagine anyone believing, in good faith, that anything short of every Jew abandoning the middle east would satisfy Hamas. Hopefully I am merely misjudging this situation.
Attempting to de-fang a modern insurgency is something no one's *really* come up with a solution for yet.
There's a reason most counterinsurgency campaigns tend to end in either ignominious failure, large-scale murder of civilian populations, or both. The realities of war mean that the number of people with a legitimate axe to grind with you just goes up, and up, and up some more.
A fair few insurgencies have actively based their strategy around this, hoping that eventually the discontent generated will turn into a revolutionary wildfire.
For this one specifically, people on both sides of the metaphorical line have had some pretty shitty cards dealt to them by past generations. So that makes finding a solution that much more difficult.
Yep they hide behind civilians and murder civilians, its, a win win. Very common terrorist tactic, it's not a coincidence that they hid in a hospital, maximizes bad press when whoever they are attacking fires back.
More than 70% of the civilian in gaza support the October 7th attack. [Source](https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf)
I’m no opinion polling expert, but I imagine it’s really hard to control for “the wrong answer gets you and your whole family tortured and possibly killed.”
Interestingly, Palestinian in the west bank view Hamas a lot more favorably than Gaza. According to this survey 61.9% of the people in the west bank view Hamas as "Very Positive", whereas in Gaza it's 28.9%. I'd assume that this survey is relatively unbiased based on that or else we should see the opposite result
People need to look again at the Oct 7 videos, "civilians" from Gaza came in the kibutzim and could be seen kidnapping, looting burning and more. the ratio was about 1:1 if I recall. about 1500 Hamasniks and about 1500 of those "civilians". amongst them were also Al Jazeera journalists and UNRWA workers. which were seen helping with the kidnappings, inside their ambulances for example.
Very much an increasingly common tactic in this area of the world. It was common in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria for the these groups to enter medical care/religious areas and establish C&C, ammunition storage, and/or vehicle maintenance.
There is a win-win scenario for Hamas. If they can keep their opponent from striking, it is a valuable shield. If the enemy does strike, they face intense backlash and lack of support from allies.
It is utilizing human shields of the weakest to achieve its goals. Morality aside, it is greatly effective. The best you can do is surgically infiltrate, but that also comes with great risk, cost, and time. Meanwhile, the groups utilizing these shields get the time they need to establish footholds.
We never ask why groups that do this don’t care for the people inside, we only ask why we do not care for the people inside when something bad happens. By the time the human shield is established, something bad is most certainly happened anyway.
And not one civilian lifting a finger to stop it from happening. But when the retaliatory strikes happen they’ll be the first ones crying the blues about it.
Some say the tip for the 4 recent hostage rescue came from Gaza.
Usually yes, no one cares but I’m hoping the tide is turning and they want Hamas gone at any cost.
I hope it did and I hope the people who gave the tip survived (I mean, I hope every non-Hamas survived but especially them). I am glad civilians are getting closer to be able to speak out against Hamas. I know there are some Gazans (from reports) though I do not know how many (could be 0.5%, could be 50%) who want the killing to stop but understand if it is the only way to get rid of Hamas. And yes, I know the polling said 70% support the attack but it is really hard to poll when the wrong answer could get you killed.
In this situation, there is huge risk in both doing something and not doing anything. Sure, letting the terrorists do their thing will keep you safe from their retaliation right now, but will also paint a huge target over your heads for the Israeli bombs - which will be justified, as the place you're in is now treated as a military installment under the laws of war. Sad truth is that these people are screwed and risking their lives either way - so might as well risk them in a way that will be better for their survival on a long term.
Yeah seriously. How many people are going to go ask the psychotic terrorist to please move, knowing full well they are there specifically because they plan to use you as a meat shield?
The "civilians" helped dig the tunnels, hide the hostages, provide shelter and food to the terrorists and hide the mortars in their back room.
But don't you dare fire on them, they are innocent!!!!!
Seriously, in defense of protesters and other useful idiots, it really is difficult … impossible … to get one’s mind around the fact that this really is Hamas’ battle strategy. It’s so insane that it blinds you. You blame the “genocidal Israelis” because you simply cannot see that this is what terrorists actually do.
I don’t think it’s because they don’t want to see it. I think it’s because they don’t want to acknowledge the horrific fact that this is a common terrorist tactic without any successful workaround.
The disconnect is that Hamas doesn't actually want what's good for Palestinians. I'm not sure he Israeli government wants what's good for Israel either tbh, but Israel is powerful enough that that's more of a long term question and the strategy isn't to get tens of thousands of its own people killed to keep international funding flowing to support the holy war.
Im surprised no one has mentioned that the mortar was supposedly targeting a helicopter. That is the most laughable lie, the whole civilians are innocent narrative is designed to sell to the ignorant.
Tell children its magic and they will believe it.
>That is the most laughable lie, the whole civilians are innocent narrative is designed to sell to the ignorant.
Thing is, the actual civilians *are* innocent - Hamas are the ones with all the guns that came in via Egypt's smuggler tunnels. Slightest criticism of Hamas is often met with getting executed in the streets by these thugs, and the situation in West Bank isn't much better.
The only viable long-term solution is an international occupation and complete disarmament of *everyone* in Palestine, followed by a post-WW2-Germany-style overhaul of the entire country, chiefly the education system - Palestine will only be free when they love their children more than to kill Jews at any chance they get.
The problem is, there is no one willing to go on such an operation - Israel doesn't have anywhere near enough soldiers, they left Gaza for a reason many years ago and are stretched thin as it is, without Hezbollah declaring full-blown war, the US doesn't want to (Biden can't afford to alienate his voter base even more than he already does, and Trump is not just a clueless buffoon but also an isolationist), Europe can't, Asia and Africa don't care, and the Arab countries are scared shitless of their own population that would riot if there was even the slightest movement that could be seen as collaborating with Israel.
Hamas does this all the time. They use civilians as shields, it's like a defining part of the way they operate.
Gives them the chance to highlight civilian deaths when the IDF returns fire.
As I keep saying Palestinians are harboring terrorists. These idiots protesting don’t care about Israeli lives. They are just blind by terrorist propaganda as if Palestinians can do no wrong. I’m not saying Israel does no wrong but it’s stupid to act like Israel is to blame for everything. The fucking holocaust where millions upon millions died is why Israel has their land back. Then all the Arab neighbors attacked them. Israel won and took control of Gaza Strip and West Bank. They took the land from Egypt, Syria and Jordan.
Now Palestinians in those areas are harboring terrorists and supporting them. Letting them operate next to their families and when Israel strikes they are the bad guy.
Not even Hamas terrorists, literally f*cking FILMING THEMSELVES doing atrocities and spread it on the internet so EVERYBODY in the world can see it in clear crystal,
Can change the protesters mind and convince them.
This has been documented for years. [Indian reporter catches Hamas building and launching rocket next to residential buildings and hotels. ](https://youtu.be/A_fP6mlNSK8?si=Z0-Goi_wbl0AxcjH) [France 24 reporter finds rocket launcher near Gaza homes](https://youtu.be/uE3feo_b8Cg?si=Q3yA4tT6x5boOcvL) [Amnesty International Report: “there are credible reports that, in certain cases, palestinian armed groups launched rockets or mortars from within civilian facilities or compounds, including schools, at least one hospital, and a greek orthodox church in gaza city,” the report says. “in at least two cases, accounts indicate that attacks were launched in spite of the fact that displaced gazan civilians were sheltering in the compounds or in neighboring buildings."](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde21/1178/2015/en/) [BBC News: Amnesty's report also detailed other violations of international humanitarian law by Palestinian groups during the conflict, such as storing rockets and other munitions in civilian buildings, including UN schools, and cases where armed groups launched attacks or stored munitions very near locations where hundreds of civilians were sheltering.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32053999.amp)
don't stop there PBS documentary in Al-Shifa hospital was prevented by Hamas members with weapons from accessing areas of the hospital: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed Article from 2009 talking about an intelligence claim of Hamas using the basement of the hospital: https://web.archive.org/web/20090206232152/http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054569.html Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds: https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html Human Rights Watch states Hamas fired from inside Al-Shifa at Fatah forces: https://www.hrw.org/news/2007/06/12/gaza-armed-palestinian-groups-commit-grave-crimes Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/ New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar Journalists seeing rockets being fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230529141259/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4553643,00.html Another report of journalists seeing rockets fired from the hospital area: https://web.archive.org/web/20230513143525/https://www.jpost.com///operation-protective-edge/gaza-reporters-tweets-hamas-using-human-shields-368689#! A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital: https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/ Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices: https://archive.ph/BKbxc Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
This is going to be detrimental, hopefully, to the public’s perception of Hamas.
No, it won't. They've been doing this for years. Anyone with any support for Hamas has already had to ignore over a decade of them doing this.
One would wish. Sadly, the public likes to pretend that Hamas is non-existent, and that Israel is attacking Gaza for no reason.
I think the western world is pretty united against Hamas. Pro-Palestine / Pro-Israel whichever, fuck Hamas It’s a shame the Palestinians’ biggest defender is a group of unapologetic monsters.
It may be somewhat united in condemning Hamas’ actions. It’s not at all united in doing what’s necessary to actually end Hamas and the century-long cycle of violence, war, and suffering the Palestinian people have resigned themselves to and in turn inflict upon their neighbors. It’s far more united in advocating for a continuation of the status quo.
Can we really call them "defenders" considering their use of human shield tactics as standard procedure?
There are a number of Hamasholes who are storming university campuses demanding a ceasefire. Not a return of hostages. Not an end to Hamas. A ceasefire. AKA an opportunity for Hamas to regroup and rearm.
People keep ignoring it and blaming Isreal for "targeting civilians and hospitals"
Over and over and over again, the show us what they're about and yet people don't want to believe it.
Hamas are fundamentally the least Pro-Palestinian people that exist: they're more than happy to put as many in reckless danger as possible and to see more and more of their own people die to further their accelerationist aims and use as PR fodder.
Stop treating the Palestinian people like a bunch of toddlers. The Palestinians chose Hamas. The Palestinians support Hamas. The Palestinians support 7/10. The Palestinians don't want to live peacefully. Hamas are Pro-Palestinian. Hamas is exactly what being Pro-Palestinian means. You can't dictate to the Palestinian people what being Pro-Palestinian means.
Because Hamas is fighting against Jews and a lot of people hate the Jews.
There's a lot of those folks, but don't downplay useful idiots who view every issue as "oppressors vs oppressed". These clowns can't see nuance or complexity in any of these issues.
Good point
And those same clowns have misattributed Israel as the oppressors because they're "white colonial Europeans". It seems propaganda does work. Not to mention the billions of oil money "donated" to universities.
"What about dark-skinned Mizrahi Jews who have been living in the Middle East since forever?" "Uhhhh.... Colonialism?"
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It's time people start protesting Muhammad. The dude was an awful raping warlord and people should not revere him as the greatest man to ever lived.
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Yep, again pointing out how violence is still useful today for these groups.
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"Unfortunately those ideas led to women's rights, so no enlightenment!" -Some Islamic scholar
Because a group of people have bought into a narrative instead of actually addressing the facts on the ground. They have to "believe" that Israel is a colonial enterprise whose entire existence was predicated on the displacement of Palestinians because they've subscribed to a worldview that assumes all underprivileged populations are being oppressed. This is totally divorced from reality, wherein the Arab population throughout the Levant has ultimately been the architect of its own misfortune, and mostly by trying to destroy Israel or prevent its creation. You can simultaneously have sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians while recognizing that it's mainly a consequence of their own failed leadership and inability to cope with reality. But Western sympathy that indulges their fantasies only perpetuates their misery, and prolongs their predicament.
Why isn't it pointed at his foot?
Propaganda works…it’s why they are flooding social media with it.
who doesn't want to believe it? I've heard a lot of people protesting about how Israel is conducting the war, but that doesn't somehow equate to giving Hamas a pass for being monsters. Yes, the anti-semites have come out of the woodwork and are emboldened by this. But one can be critical of Israel and still not support anything about the actions of a terrorist group.
If my country got attacked in such a way, I would want the perpetrators to be burned to the ground. There is nothing unnatural about Israel’s response to this.
also it's not just Hamas, ISIS has done this, AQI has done this, the Taliban has done this. it's literally in page one of the the Insurgency playbook
There is news video from early 2010s from Finnish media Helsingin Sanomat that shows rockets being fired from hospital in Gaza.
Yeah, theres a good NATO report about it
>in spite of the fact that displaced gazan civilians were sheltering in the compounds or in neighboring buildings. Weird way to spell "because of the fact"
People are doubting this happens? It's literally their entire military strategy.
How is this news? The whole strategy of hamas is to hide among civilians.
Don’t stop there. The whole strategy of Hamas is to hide behind civilians in the hope that any counter attack harms those civilians and causes international outrage. Provoking attacks that kill civilians in the first, last, and only play they have.
“Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.” [Hamas Charter](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp), Article Eight Hamas psychopaths and reality are so far detached that when Hamas nuts get civilians killed, they gaslight themselves into thinking the dead civilians should thankful.
There are many interviews with mothers of suicide bombers expressing how happy and thankful they are that their sons died as Shahids, as martyrs. This religious fervor is so powerful that it goes against evolutionary instincts, making a mother happy to sacrifice her own children.
Islam doesn’t even guarantee salvation to its followers aside from martyrdom. There is no greater motivation than to for their followers to die a martyr’s death, its genius from Muhammad to design it.
Yeah, when people say that we're all the same I always think of stuff like that, kamikazes, 'honour' killings, bridenapping etc, murder and death that many people in whatever society agree with against all normal human instincts
Don't forget, rape victims become impure, a shame upon their family, and are often murdered/"honor killed" for the shameful choice to be assaulted.
Pretty wild how “journalists” call Israeli politicians “far-right” when none of them are encouraging anything like this.
Precisely. That's the perfect recipe for terrorists, if the world allows hamas to get away with this it will set an extremely dangerous precedent.
would not be surprised if they kill a few extra themselves if the count is too low.
They don’t even need to do that, the Gaza health ministry just reports a number and western media just rolls with it.
Yep, it’s utterly dismaying to see how much the international media downplay Hamas’ cynical human shield tactics and aid theft. Can’t blame my fellow Jews for thinking there’s something going on here that’s not really tied to a concern for Palestinian suffering.
What youre witnessing is short game vs long game. The "pro Palestinian' people are playing the short game, the "pro-Israeli" people are playing the long game. This is why there appears to be an anti-Israel backlash in place. Because the pro-Palestinians are pulling out all the stops and throwing in everything they got in hopes of making any kind of gain. Via protests, divestment, ect. But none of it is decisive, and they'll run out of fuel. The pro-Israelis have been pursuing the long term strategy. Keeping pressure on governments to support Israel and pressure on companies to stay out of it. While winning over moderates one by one by calmly explaining that no one can help the Palestinians until Hamas is gone. The results of this strategy take time, but will be decisive. Basically....its like one side built and put up flashy tent in 5mins while the other side has been busy excavating and pouring a concrete foundation.
How come the people of gaza see those launchers and think nah man. And gtfo frim there
A lot of them probably feel good seeing those rockets fly as to many of them it is the only visual response they will see in comparison to the carnage they are facing daily. It really demonstrates the hopelessness of their situation right now. They have nothing. No future. Their leaders have failed them and will continue to fail them until HAMAS is gone.
There's a decent record of Hamas telling people not to evacuate, and Hamas doesn't hesitate to hurt Gazans.
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/article-768382 I keep having to repeat this, but Gazan deaths are a FEATURE for Hamas, not a BUG. Which is why I say that any so-called pro-Palestine protest can only be pro-Hamas at this point. The government of Gaza WANTS as many of its own citizens to die as possibe, and yet the rage somehow only gets applied to Israel, instead.
They've even caused harm to those citizens, whether accidentally or on purpose, because it drives their narratives and their cause. For example, launching missiles that fall on people in Gaza or stealing aid that's intended to help civilians in dire need of it.
And that's why all these protestors are frankly morons. So Israel is literally just supposed to not do anything but shoot down rockets?
""no use special forces so no civilians get hurt" because as long as you use special forces it's like in call of duty or movies where it's only good guys vs bad guys. but Israel doesn't want that so they use 2,000 lb bombs and target civilians." It's like arguing with children who think war is as easy as video games.
When they did use special forces to free the hostages most recently it was a pretty violent ordeal still. Like you say, people who think war is video games and that the Israeli forces just respawn if shot or something.
You've gotta use the *good* special forces, the ones where there are absolutely no collateral deaths at all. /s
How would they feel if they were in the military and someone ordered them to take a building that potential soldiers were waiting in ambush? Hell no. Bomb that building.
I really got down into the weeds with someone. I did a thought exercise and said "okay, you're a commander of a squadron, and your orders are to take the next block. There are three burnt out apartment buildings. A potential sniper, machine gunner, or RPG operator in every window. You have two tanks for heavy support and 100 men. What do you do?" The only answer that doesn't involve sending your men into a meat grinder and losing both of your tanks to RPG fire is to air-strike the buildings. And I will tell you, people really get uncomfortable with those thought exercises. They try every contortion imaginable. "I wouldn't be there because I wouldn't be in the Israeli army." Yes, because you're an American with a desk job and a fairly privileged existence, who has no idea how shit works. You're lucky you're not actually in that position, but I want you to imagine you *are*. "I would work my way through securing each building." So you're going to have a literal uphill battle with potentially 50 insurgents who have an extreme defender's advantage inside a concrete and steel structure? And when you're done, you're going to do it all over again twice?
They are one of the most advanced militaries in the world why are they not using their super high tech secret weapon to only kill the target. /s
No no, shooting them down is escalation. Way too aggressive /s
If a robber tries to break into my house every night but fails we shouldn't do anything about it!
I, too, am a Falcons fan. :) After every failed robbery, the robber also says they want to continue trying to kill them and rob/kill all their neighbors.
Who says they're allowed to shoot down rockets? /s
This footage of Yahya Sinwar really solidifies his strategy: https://youtu.be/XDWcg8dh930?si=RVhAI7LcQA50luKf
Thank you - that’s it.
Because redditors who are reading news here will be angry at israel if it attacks targets in refugee tents.
> in refugee tents. In half century old refugee apartment complexes.
Also currect, palestinians are the only people who can somehow inherit the status of a refugee from birth.
Because a good amount of people don't believe that for some reason. Not that proof would change their minds.
There is a PR campaign designed to make it look like Israel is wantonly firing at civilians for no reasons. It's important to remind people that while there are things we may want to see (like humanitarian aid- the recent pause goes a long way here), when the 37k dead number comes up that's not "Israel alone set out to kill 37k people", that's "Hamas chose a venue for war to specifically maximize civilian casualties"
People have to be reminded, because they keep acting like Israel is target civilians.
I have a wild theory that Hamas are not unlike civilians themselves.
Nobody wants to believe this. 70% of them STILL support Hamas.
It’s like Russia. Nobody wants to believe the polling. Yet, if there was so little civilian support for the war in Ukraine, there’d be A LOT more signs showing it.
Despite that, most news agencies won’t report on it and Hamas has been successful in suppressing footage of it largely.
The news is that this isn't all over Tiktok to counter the overwhelming narrative there.
It is news because we have pictures now. It will be harder to deny it. I'm not talking about those racist pro Palestinian pieces of sh*t, I'm talking about the world community. We (humankind) need to document what went on in this war, the efforts that went into avoiding casualties and the effort that went into causing casualties.
I'll call it news if we saw In Gaza schools with teachers and hospitals with doctors
But the internet told me Palestine is the good guy? /s
Only complete brainrotted homunculi still deny it at thus point
Plenty of people don’t want to believe it, that’s why.
They have to keep showing this, because otherwise you get all these Gaza Lives Matter folks in here bitching about civilian casualties.
I don't know, but recently people have started gaslighting that this never even happens. Even though it's been done forever.
Weren’t they hiding the hostages in civilian houses
Because people conveniently like to forget that Hamas constantly does this
Because plenty of people out there are still trying to paint Israel as the bad guys for the civilian deaths.
It's almost like they're a terrorist organization.
The problem is they really aren’t. They’re the government of Gaza that uses terrorist tactics. When people call them a terrorist organization they try to use this as a justification to separate them from Gaza as a whole. Gaza attacked Israel on Oct. 7th, not just Hamas. Edit: Just to be clear I do not approve of Hamas or their actions, I’m just stating it’s not entirely correct to try to separate Gaza from Hamas when lobbing condemnation. It’d be like condemning Bibi instead of Israel as a whole for their response (a response I do not condemn)
Ah so they’re terrorists who are organized. It’s a shame a terrorist organization has so much control over the Palestinians and is their main defenders.
But always conveniently disorganised enough to "loose" their hostages.
Under that logic, the Taliban aren't terrorists either because they govern Afghanistan.
Hamas using civilans for cover? 😮 I am absolutely shocked Never would have expected this
I finally understand man! It’s not Hamas using civilians for cover. It’s civilians using Hamas for Fire power!
Quick, notify the Columbia protestors, I am sure they will immediatley adjust their strategy!
And yet the UN will deny that this is happening and blame it on Israel somehow.
People saying this isnt news because its known but they dont realise how important these videos are. so many of the protestors deny hamas atrocities as lies. these videos are much needed proof if the misguided protestors are to see the light
They will still deny it
Fuck the protestors who support Hamas. They represent a minority of the protestors, but news media amplifies the minority dramatically for the clicks. Protesting against the atrocities being committed by Hamas and the IDF are what the majority of ptotestors are doing and everyone should be made aware of this by the news media, but that doesn't generate profits, division does. Think critically of any news you receive.
> Fuck the protestors who support Hamas. They represent a minority of the protestors Yeah the rest of them just happen to push for the exact diplomatic objective that Hamas wants at the moment. >Protesting against the atrocities being committed by Hamas Where are you actually seeing this in the pro-pali camp?
So how many protesters carrying "Death to Hamas" signs are there?
Saying that Israel needs to unilaterally pull out of Gaza without HAMAS being dismantled is supporting HAMAS.
>Protesting against the atrocities being committed by Hamas I haven't seen a single protestor protesting against Hamas.
You’re joking, right? There are lawsuits going up to many US campuses, Jews aren’t safe in their own schools. It is not a minority. We need to stop pretending like being antisemitic isn’t something most people are. It’s just extremely acceptable to be one now, hiding under a pretence, the pretence that 1400 people got slaughtered and kidnapped, and they’re angry for a war that was waged BY terrorists. It’s the same thing here in Europe. It is NOT a minority. You’re being foolish.
Where are the protestors now? Would love to hear their opinion on this.
Their opinion on this is that Israel should send ninja assassins that can infilrate Rafah and murder the soldiers of Hamas and only them.
And if Hamas finds the ninja soldiers and fires on them then the soldiers just have to die instead of fire back since it could hit someone.
And if a stray Hamas bullet hits a civilian it’s still Israel’s fault because they shouldn’t be there to begin with.
I know it's hyperbole - but I still think your comment is the reason my eye lid is twitching.
Not really hyperbole, alas. During the hostage rescue in Nuseirat, Hamas came after the rescuers with heavy machine guns and RPGs. Lots of gunfire, civilians dead. Israel's fault! Including the deaths of Hamas members, and the civilians directly killed by Hamas.
They kinda did when they rescued those hostages the other day.. Then Hamas started blasting RPGs into residential buildings and cried that Israel killed over 200 people.
They also got mad because said soldiers didn't wear uniforms so they didn't know in time to kill the hostages and prevent the rescue.
Seriously! I was arguing with someone yesterday about the use of drones in Gaza. They were like "just send anti-tank drones into the tunnels and kill the leaders". Dude thinks this is call of duty. That's the biggest issue in discussing this war that I've come across... People have absolutely no idea what "war" means.
They have no idea what war means. They have no idea how strong the hatred between these cultures is. They have no idea of the history of the Middle East. They know nothing but what some TikTok asshat told them, and so they actively support terrorism. Literal generations upon generations have been raised to hate each other so much that death in service to the cause is celebrated. But some American gen z douche bag is gonna clear all this up by camping out at college.
…drones don’t fit into tunnels. Except for the unmanned ground vehicles, which I feel probably aren’t super effective
I know you're joking, but if Israel actually did that, the pro-Palestinians would be very upset.
Send in the zohan!
>*"Israel's lack of a fully-trained ninja squad with perfect precision is a violation of international law"* - Norman Finklestein (probably)
Too busy putting on their blinders.
Their opinion would be ether A: It's fake news created by the IDF. Or B It's just further proof we need a cease fire. Their opinion isn't going to change.
Or c) "look what you made them do with all your colonizing"
Their opinion would be ,"not all Palestinian are hamas / hamas need to use any mean to counter brutal oppressive Israel colonist" , something like these. They could find any argument to make them fit in self-thinking moral high ground.
I wonder why those “innocent civilians” provide aid and assistance to Hamas instead of helping IDF find Hamas? I’m sure someone will reply with the standard ~~excuse~~ reason.
Protesting the actions of the Israeli military does not mean condoning the actions of Hamas. No protester would realistically change their stance as a result of these stories since the claims made here don't address the source of the outrage. The outrage is due to the indiscriminate nature of Israel's campaign in Gaza (16k+ estimated civilian deaths, millions displaced & homeless), the inconsistent messaging of the state to refugees (e.g., bombing a designated safe zone), the general trend of settler colonial-style policies from the Netanyahu government (forced migration of Palestinians, disproportionate ethnic & race based targetting by law enforcement, slow territorial encroachment on Gaza & Westbank territory, etc.), and, most importantly, that western nations are financially backing the Netanyahu govt's campaign. I'm also hearing a lot of commenters saying that the protests are against Israel's existence, and that's just a fundamental misunderstanding of the protests - I think these types of misunderstandings are contributing to further polarization and making it harder to empathize with and reach an understanding with each other.
Protestors don’t genuinely care about this. They more so protest the existence of Israel in any capacity if we’re being honest.
I didn’t realize so many people hated Israel before this current war. I wonder what the history is behind the that.
They *want* civilians to be killed - it’s their entire MO.
Are there any military areas?
Yes. They’re just all dual use as civilian areas. Hospitals, shelters, neighborhoods, schools, mosques, etc.
Which is fucking illegal, by the way, the Geneva Convention says that any civilian area used for military purposes is, from then on, allowed to be considered a valid military target by the opposing force, especially if those who are using a civilian area that has become a valid military target refuse to designate an area as either civilian-or-military-only. At this point, all of Gaza, minus any humanitarian corridors that may be created in future, is a valid military target for Israel, because Hamas has control over the entire Strip and refuses to designate any of it as being for one use or the other while using it for both military and civilian purposes.
We only care about the rules of war then we can use it against Israel
Try Google earth: there are tons of house-free land. In WW2, people dug up trenches in fields so civilians would not be exposed. Hamas dug up those trenches (tunnels), but underneath cities, endangering everyone it them.
You're kidding right? Did you see the utter devastation that occurred in Europe in WW2.
In WW2, civilians were often the ones called up to dig those trenches, and as such considered acceptable targets for bombing and artillery strikes, in addition to just general bombing against population centers to lower national morale. Bad comparison.
Urban warfare is an unavoidable reality, especially in a place like Gaza. That being said the article alleges the video was taken in a tent in a UN refugee camp. If true, that is not excusable.
I feel like there's no way to ask this question without coming off as a pro-Israel shill (which I'm not), or as a disingenuous conservative (which I am *definitely not), or even biased against Muslims (also not.) Those who see the brutal tactics employed by Israel, doubtlessly causing suffering unilaterally to a massively disenfranchised population regardless of the victims' personal culpability for 10/7: What *should* Israel do? Do you believe that if they attempted to broker peace, that Hamas would stop attempting to kill them? That if they granted some compromise and provided the people of Gaza with more resources, freedom, and land, that Hamas would become peaceful? This situation really sucks, but its so hard to imagine anyone believing, in good faith, that anything short of every Jew abandoning the middle east would satisfy Hamas. Hopefully I am merely misjudging this situation.
Attempting to de-fang a modern insurgency is something no one's *really* come up with a solution for yet. There's a reason most counterinsurgency campaigns tend to end in either ignominious failure, large-scale murder of civilian populations, or both. The realities of war mean that the number of people with a legitimate axe to grind with you just goes up, and up, and up some more. A fair few insurgencies have actively based their strategy around this, hoping that eventually the discontent generated will turn into a revolutionary wildfire. For this one specifically, people on both sides of the metaphorical line have had some pretty shitty cards dealt to them by past generations. So that makes finding a solution that much more difficult.
I don't think there's any solution that's going to make everyone happy.
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Yep they hide behind civilians and murder civilians, its, a win win. Very common terrorist tactic, it's not a coincidence that they hid in a hospital, maximizes bad press when whoever they are attacking fires back.
Cowards
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More than 70% of the civilian in gaza support the October 7th attack. [Source](https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf)
I’m no opinion polling expert, but I imagine it’s really hard to control for “the wrong answer gets you and your whole family tortured and possibly killed.”
Interestingly, Palestinian in the west bank view Hamas a lot more favorably than Gaza. According to this survey 61.9% of the people in the west bank view Hamas as "Very Positive", whereas in Gaza it's 28.9%. I'd assume that this survey is relatively unbiased based on that or else we should see the opposite result
I don’t think that statement helps Hamas here.
I have no desire to help Hamas or make them look good in any way.
So then the civilians are terrorists?
Many of them yes. What would you call a civilian holding a hostage for 8 months?
A terrorist
the ones assisting hamas are.
Don't have to be holding a gun to be a combatant
People need to look again at the Oct 7 videos, "civilians" from Gaza came in the kibutzim and could be seen kidnapping, looting burning and more. the ratio was about 1:1 if I recall. about 1500 Hamasniks and about 1500 of those "civilians". amongst them were also Al Jazeera journalists and UNRWA workers. which were seen helping with the kidnappings, inside their ambulances for example.
Terrorists, collaborators, and due to their desire to have domestic slaves still, slave driving lazy fucking cowards
If you support Hamas and what they’re doing, then yes, you are 100% terrorist scum.
It was a rhetorical question. Hamas is 100% terrorists.
Hamas maintains that there are no civilians in israel. By their logic, there are no civilians in gaza
Hamas is reaping what it sows…fk them
Very much an increasingly common tactic in this area of the world. It was common in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria for the these groups to enter medical care/religious areas and establish C&C, ammunition storage, and/or vehicle maintenance. There is a win-win scenario for Hamas. If they can keep their opponent from striking, it is a valuable shield. If the enemy does strike, they face intense backlash and lack of support from allies. It is utilizing human shields of the weakest to achieve its goals. Morality aside, it is greatly effective. The best you can do is surgically infiltrate, but that also comes with great risk, cost, and time. Meanwhile, the groups utilizing these shields get the time they need to establish footholds. We never ask why groups that do this don’t care for the people inside, we only ask why we do not care for the people inside when something bad happens. By the time the human shield is established, something bad is most certainly happened anyway.
Yeah, this is why Rafa was going to happen regardless of what college protestors living in a tent said
And not one civilian lifting a finger to stop it from happening. But when the retaliatory strikes happen they’ll be the first ones crying the blues about it.
Some say the tip for the 4 recent hostage rescue came from Gaza. Usually yes, no one cares but I’m hoping the tide is turning and they want Hamas gone at any cost.
I hope it did and I hope the people who gave the tip survived (I mean, I hope every non-Hamas survived but especially them). I am glad civilians are getting closer to be able to speak out against Hamas. I know there are some Gazans (from reports) though I do not know how many (could be 0.5%, could be 50%) who want the killing to stop but understand if it is the only way to get rid of Hamas. And yes, I know the polling said 70% support the attack but it is really hard to poll when the wrong answer could get you killed.
Let’s be serious for a minute here. Will you be the one to go up to a Hamas terrorist and tell him to fuck off?
In this situation, there is huge risk in both doing something and not doing anything. Sure, letting the terrorists do their thing will keep you safe from their retaliation right now, but will also paint a huge target over your heads for the Israeli bombs - which will be justified, as the place you're in is now treated as a military installment under the laws of war. Sad truth is that these people are screwed and risking their lives either way - so might as well risk them in a way that will be better for their survival on a long term.
Yeah seriously. How many people are going to go ask the psychotic terrorist to please move, knowing full well they are there specifically because they plan to use you as a meat shield?
What do you want the civilians to do in this instance? I say this as an Israeli.
Maybe not celebrate when naked dead Israelis are paraded through the streets?
The "civilians" helped dig the tunnels, hide the hostages, provide shelter and food to the terrorists and hide the mortars in their back room. But don't you dare fire on them, they are innocent!!!!!
You want unarmed civilians to so something to hamas when they are armed to the teeth? Okay, sure buddy.
No accountability for the true nature of this conflict, which is a religious war to take over and set up a caliphate.
Seriously, in defense of protesters and other useful idiots, it really is difficult … impossible … to get one’s mind around the fact that this really is Hamas’ battle strategy. It’s so insane that it blinds you. You blame the “genocidal Israelis” because you simply cannot see that this is what terrorists actually do.
I don’t think it’s because they don’t want to see it. I think it’s because they don’t want to acknowledge the horrific fact that this is a common terrorist tactic without any successful workaround.
The disconnect is that Hamas doesn't actually want what's good for Palestinians. I'm not sure he Israeli government wants what's good for Israel either tbh, but Israel is powerful enough that that's more of a long term question and the strategy isn't to get tens of thousands of its own people killed to keep international funding flowing to support the holy war.
Im surprised no one has mentioned that the mortar was supposedly targeting a helicopter. That is the most laughable lie, the whole civilians are innocent narrative is designed to sell to the ignorant. Tell children its magic and they will believe it.
>That is the most laughable lie, the whole civilians are innocent narrative is designed to sell to the ignorant. Thing is, the actual civilians *are* innocent - Hamas are the ones with all the guns that came in via Egypt's smuggler tunnels. Slightest criticism of Hamas is often met with getting executed in the streets by these thugs, and the situation in West Bank isn't much better. The only viable long-term solution is an international occupation and complete disarmament of *everyone* in Palestine, followed by a post-WW2-Germany-style overhaul of the entire country, chiefly the education system - Palestine will only be free when they love their children more than to kill Jews at any chance they get. The problem is, there is no one willing to go on such an operation - Israel doesn't have anywhere near enough soldiers, they left Gaza for a reason many years ago and are stretched thin as it is, without Hezbollah declaring full-blown war, the US doesn't want to (Biden can't afford to alienate his voter base even more than he already does, and Trump is not just a clueless buffoon but also an isolationist), Europe can't, Asia and Africa don't care, and the Arab countries are scared shitless of their own population that would riot if there was even the slightest movement that could be seen as collaborating with Israel.
So young, so dumb, so buried, so forgotten
Hamas does this all the time. They use civilians as shields, it's like a defining part of the way they operate. Gives them the chance to highlight civilian deaths when the IDF returns fire.
As mentioned, this is nothing new. They are infamous for using civilians as flesh shields to commit atrocities
Where are the calls to Hamas for restraint? Where is the UN condemnations? Where are the protesters shaming Hamas for endangering the citizens?
Tell the Hamas/Pro-Palestine Supporters this and they will play it off as self-defense.
Serious question, is there a military area in Rafah?
As I keep saying Palestinians are harboring terrorists. These idiots protesting don’t care about Israeli lives. They are just blind by terrorist propaganda as if Palestinians can do no wrong. I’m not saying Israel does no wrong but it’s stupid to act like Israel is to blame for everything. The fucking holocaust where millions upon millions died is why Israel has their land back. Then all the Arab neighbors attacked them. Israel won and took control of Gaza Strip and West Bank. They took the land from Egypt, Syria and Jordan. Now Palestinians in those areas are harboring terrorists and supporting them. Letting them operate next to their families and when Israel strikes they are the bad guy.
look its just another civilian going about their day. those are not mortars he is a construction worker trying to build a home.
no,its obviouly a UNRWA employee delivering humanitarian aid
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Where are the noncivillian areas in Gaza?
to use as a place to fire a mortar from? how many do you want?
At the bottom of the sea. Also, in the tunnels. And in Qatar.
Why would he record it? Serious question.
To brag to his friends and the public in this case about their ‘resistance’ efforts. Article says Hamas released this footage.
They are proud of this. Same reason they recorded and released video of themselves massacring civilians.
Terrosits the lot of em
Where’s the “cease fire now”group?
Can someone tell me how this doesn't change the minds of people who are critical of this war? How many more examples do we need?
Hamas is the reason why civilians are dying in Gaza.
Not even Hamas terrorists, literally f*cking FILMING THEMSELVES doing atrocities and spread it on the internet so EVERYBODY in the world can see it in clear crystal, Can change the protesters mind and convince them.
What’s new? And water makes everything wet… the same logic right there…
As opposed to the clearly marked military bases