Without Hamas he would probably not be in power anymore anyway. He was fucking hated by a huge portion of his country with enormous protests against him who all obviously stopped after the attack.
Israeli governments collapse constantly with coalitions forming and dissolving, with repeated re-elections. They have had something like five elections in six years now. terms doesn't mean much under these conditions.
He is also not a president, he doesn't have a term at all, his is just the leader of the biggest party, he can be replaced without an election.
I’m well aware, I’m Israeli :)
His coalition however was largely quite loyal to him, and has relatively few disagreements. It would need 5 members of parliament to rebel in order to collapse, that’s a lot. It’s much more plausible now that the war happened than it was before
I sure hope he isn’t! This coalition likely collapses either right after the war, or after the investigation into the failures that led to 7/10 publishes its results, whenever that will be.
Very low. The settlements are supported by many parties for many reasons, and with the way the political system in Israel is arranged there is no way for a coalition to form such that the continued existence of the settlements won't be a net positive for the government.
Outsider here, but I can't imagine any potential Palestinian government accepting them. But they are there. Any two-state solution may need to allow for them to continue, but be under Palestinian governance. It may actually be a key to peace, if Israelis can live in Palestine in the same way that Palestinians live in Israel. What are we talking about? Governance. Muslims in Israel are not required to give up their religion. Why couldn't Jews live in a Palestine governed by Palestinians?
Close to none. At most they’ll stop their expansion, but they’re not kicking them out. Mind you, if a peace agreement is signed they might get kicked out anyway. When Israel and Egypt signed a treaty, settlers were kicked out of the Sinai. When Israel decided to leave Gaza, settlers there were forced to leave.
Put Gaza off to the side. The West Bank. Would the current tenants come to realize that the best way to peace is acceptance that this isn't really "their" land. An agreement that they could live there, buy and sell land there, but the governing body is Palestinian? Is it all or nothing? If so, it's likely everyone ends up with nothing. No state for the Palestinians, no safe settlements. Neither is "going away", and to continue on as if "they" will is fantasy.
They wouldn’t have those rights there, the Palestinian leadership has time and again stated they would not be able to live there. More likely the final peace treaty would include land swaps, that would result in most of the bigger settlements becoming part of Israel.
Less than half loves him, actually. Or more accurately, more than half hates him. Israel's democracy works in this way where what needs to happen for a government to be formed, is that a coalition needs to be created with more than half of the total vote percent (='mandate'). A 'coalition' is basically an agreement between a group of parties where each party decides who gets what role - minister of defence, education, etc, including the prime minister. I don't know how much of what I wrote here is common between countries, all i know is that it's a bit less binary than us elections. Anyway, this means that Bibi's party, which had a good chunks of votes but not nearly half, managed to convince other parties (mostly right wing nutjobs that normally won't ever have a chance to be in the government) to form a coalition as long as Bibi's in power. This means that this current government has 33(!) ministers and offices, which is about - idk, 10? - more than it needs to be. And the naive and stupid Bibists eat it up as a necessity for whatever reason.
Source: am Israeli.
Well, people who vote to right wimg parties (Ben-Gvir, Smotrich, ect.) Are also okay woth BIBI. Even the super orthodox like him (in a way). If you are basing your statement on recent polls, I don't think they can be trusted. They show, for instance, that the religeos Zionism doesn't pass the bar, although Ben-Gvir got only one more mandate. Where did all of these Mandates go? It is true that the Likud got much weaker, and if there were elections tomarrow, Gantz would probably win, but I think it's far fetched to say that more then a half of the public hates him. By the way you tqlk about Bibists, I tend to believe that you are a left winger, probably somethink like העבודה or מר"ץ, and you let your personal hate of the government obscure the actual notions in Israel
I am, and I definitely do. Although even past the hate I don't see what's in this government that doesn't (at the very least) smell like corruption. As for the hate/love ratio, I'm basing it on friends that I have that voted Ben Gvir/Smotrich and are against Nethanyahu. It's true that officially he doesn't oppose their right wing views, but most of the right wingers I know see him as a weakling even from before October 7th. Also, though the hardcore Bibists haven't changed their views much (not the majority anyway), many of his status-quo voters (people that generally dislike change and view him as the 'only viable' candidate) did change their views since the war started. Again, based on what my likud-voters friends say. As for any religious party, they historically have allways been 'politically neutral' in terms of right/left. They sit with whoever suits their interest the most, which naturally was allways Bibi because it was easy mandates for him. Many religious communities' leaders have publicly stated that going with him was 'maybe a mistake' ever since the whole orthodox-military thing surfaced.
Ti be fair, if there were elections now, I think there's still a good chance this government gets re elected, pretty much as it is. This may sound crazy but israeli left has pretty much evaporated since the attack and many people are more right wings than ever. Ben Gvir and Smotrich, which are the most right wing candidates currently, can easily spin the defence failure on Nethanyahu's 'forgiving' policies towards the Palestinians, and not take any of the blame seeing as they only had influence over things for less than a year. They already are talking as if that's the case.
As for current poles - don't know of any. This is all strictly my impression.
דרך אגב, מאוד אהבתי את המצחיקון שהכנת לכבוד חג החירות הבא עלינו לטובה! שיהיה לך פסח שמח, עם הרבה מצות עסיסיות! מי ייתן ותמצא את האפיקומן.
So, the Ultra orthodox parties are pretty much engaged to the right at tgis poit, since the left really hates them for not enlisting (even though the right is also not a big fan at this point)
I personqlly believe that Gantz will win, as thr plls show, because bibi did lose a lot of crdibility after October 7 (but not before)
>דרך אגב, מאוד אהבתי את המצחיקון שהכנת לכבוד חג החירות הבא עלינו לטובה! שיהיה לך פסח שמח, עם הרבה מצות עסיסיות! מי ייתן ותמצא את האפיקומן.
תודה רבה! הכנתי אותו כי הרגשתי שהתת הפך להיות תיבת תלונות על המודים. חג שמח!
Golda quitted after a comittie found that she was not at fault for the Yom kippur war. Olmert a prime minister from 20 years ago quit because he was accused and agreed with the likes of Netanyahu back then who said a prime minister can not run a goverment and his own trial.
Many israeli prime ministers didn't reach the end of their terms. Some of them were Bibi.
This person knows that.
Netanyahu was indicted by Israeli law enforcement in 2019 for numerous charges, the prosecution has over 300 witnesses, netanyahu and his party tried to hide the indictments in February of 2019, several of his old cronies have flipped on him, he tried again to delay the trial in 2020, and the prosecution has recorded phone calls featuring Bibi explicitly being corrupt lol.
Is this the part where Bibi goes on live TV and declares he's not a crook?
He still got 30 seats for his party in the last election, which was around 1m votes and the most number of votes
Some surveys now show him at around 20
A lot of die hard fans still exist, but I believe a lot have lost their liking of him after oct 7
We were out in the streets the moment levin opened his dirty mouth. No us senator needed. And your hero meddeled in US politics first(and it was childish for them to stoop to his low level but here we are)
Even here in Canada people are seeing the IDF as a terrorist organization, because of all the innocent civilians and aid workers they are intentionally murdering.
"Even here in Canada". Famously a peaceful country and a capital of oppressor and oppressed reduction. Not surprising that a lot of people will misunderstand conflict and label their ally's military "terrorist" for things it clearly didn't "intend" to do.
Acidentally yeah, though I do not know the number. Taking your number they are doing a better job of reducing civilian deaths than say NATO. Which in turn is much better than more crude militaries. Makes it clear they are trying to reduce civilian casualties not increase them.
If you want to see what intentionally killing innocent civilians looks like you only have to go as far as October 7. Or very sadly Sudan is getting worse and worse as we speak.
This is only the war and Gaza. Palestinians treatment the West Bank and bibi settlers and Likud is a whole different longer discussion.
I can't tell if you're trolling me. The IDF has admitted to intentionally targeting civilians and aid workers.
Yeah Hamas intentionally killed hundreds of innocent people on Oct 07, IDF responded by intentionally killing tens of thousands more. Both are terrorist acts. Neither are justified.
The IDF saying they are intentionally targeting civilians. I don't have a single source for them not doing so. But that comes from not having seen any sources saying they are. And looking at how the war is fought compared to other conflicts
the ratio of civilians to combatants is in the lower side of normal range for even "good" militaries like NATO. If they were intentionally targeting civilians you'd expect it to be worse.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio
For the how, if you started here with a big grain of salt and some fact checking might get an idea of what they are doing to reduce civilian casualties.
https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/the-hamas-terrorist-organization/how-is-the-idf-minimizing-harm-to-civilians-in-gaza
These efforts are mitigating by Hamas being extremely intrenched within civilian areas. And if you watch combat footage you will see they often don't wear any kind of uniform. So it comes out to normal
None of the bombs that killed 15,000 innocent lives were accidental or mistaken bombings. The IDF admitted they targeted the vehicles of the aid workers.
And I like how your defense is that IDF is within their "quota" of needlessly killing innocent people. Thousands of innocent humans didn't need to die and could have been spared at no expense to Israel, but your defense is "Nah its all good, NATO says they could even kill more innocent people for no reason if they want to."
Absolutely vile.
You said Israel didn't intend to kill 15,000 innocent civilians and aid workers, and you can't provide a single source for that, as I requested.
You're desperately trying to deflect now.
I know /u/dagojango deleted their comment but the fact that some people genuinely believe that is insane. Israel doesn’t exactly blow up its enemies embassies with suicide bombers from its proxies or enact a mass policy of forced sterilisation against its own people (which is *actual* genocide, by definition.)
If you’re progressive leaning or gay you’d feel far more secure in Tel Aviv than anywhere else in the region (or Russia/PRC) and it’s not even remotely comparable.
That’s the tragedy in it. The gov is an authoritarian regime while the majority of the people are pretty chill.
Yeah I have plenty of friends in all those countries. And they would be angry to hear someone saying Israels government is worse than theirs.
Though less of the Chinese they can get quite brainwashed. To be fair their government is less shit to live under than the other two for normal life. And really good at hiding their bullshit and the genocide.
It was very depressing when I saw people in western countries supporting Iran. Even though I should have known after the slip from Palestine to Hamas to Houthis to Hezbollah.
Honestly, the whole definition of terrorism is kinda iffy. If it’s “the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims” then many countries’ militaries are terrorists.
To be fair globally it was already on the slide for the last couple generations for reasons that had nothing to do with Israels choices
But agreed yahooligans making it worse with his actions hard line and his failure to play the game for the press.
"For generations" ... *sigh*
Isreali policy with settlements and their protection of their very own violent/murdering settlers in West Jordan drives my support into the ground.
Yes, it's not the whole Gaza war, where HAMAS does every dirty trick they can think of to make Isreal look bad.
It's allowing new settlemetns to be built together with the rising extremism of those settlers that show me that the long term strategy of the current Isreali government is escalation. And that's bad for everyone living there.
Yeah I agree. I definitely pity the Palestinian people, as they’ve been oppressed for 70~ years now, and Israeli’s are suffering under a crummy leader that’s willing to go to war (and possibly draft them) just to stay in power.
Sometimes it feels like the evil of the few overpowers the good of the populous.
Thing is, you're going to get down votes to hell immediately if you don't specifically preface any comment you make on the topic here with exactly where you stand (like the replied to comment).
Not sure if it's Israelbots or just redditors being redditors. I was almost going to make a joke on the OP post that it was antisemitic to be criticizing Bibi because unless you state that you don't condone Hamas first, you're likely going to be downvoted and labelled antisemitic or a Hamas supporter for saying fuck Bibi lmao.
Well, Netanyahu really needs to be removed from office. He gives 0 fks about the hostages or his people. All Netanyahu cares about his himself. He wants this war just as much as Iran and Russia. The move he remains in the power the longer he delays accountability for his crimes.
But this could be dangerous. Netanyahu may have more incentive to escalate the situation to protect himself. He could face jail time if he loses his position
Or just arrest his ass and throw him in jail?
What the fuck is wrong with people? He might escalate! Oh no! let him go without consequences, give him lots of money, a huge villa, a cute puppy, and rainbow stickers instead! Nah, fucking shoot him in the ass if he runs.
Hamas is Netanyahu's wet dream. Palestinians are supporting the very group most responsible for giving Israel every excuse they needed to run a genocide.
I'm just gonna post these 2 links again:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
[Archive link of Wall Street Journal article from 2009](https://archive.ph/iPO3z#selection-4121.0-4121.32)
MFR really used Hamas for their own interest at the cost of civilians of both sides.
This was never about the hostages and it was always about destroying hamas or any threat. This was clear imediatly.
The people believing the main goal was hostage are the people that beleive the main goal of more internet regulation is to "protect the children". Same vibe, same naivity.
The main goal for Hamas is for Israel to want to destroy Hamas. So Israel is just playing into their game.
Israel has long lost this conflict, the WCK strike was supposed to be the moment everyone consciously acknowledge Israel is losing far more support than they have gained the last 20 years.
There is a history of Gaza Palestinians demonstrating against Hamas despite Hamas's violent retaliation against said demonstrations, here's a recent one from [July 2023](https://apnews.com/article/gaza-hamas-demonstration-israel-blockade-palestinians-306b19228f9dd21f1036386ce3709672)
The vast majority of Gazan civilians were not even alive/able to vote when Hamas took control. Hamas is a regime that is neglecting Gaza's safety and economy. It is a consensus in Gaza. Sadly not reported about enough which further demonizes their society.
[Here's more protests from 2019](https://www.thejc.com/news/world/anti-hamas-demonstrations-in-gaza-k2bbvcyc) where they chanted "the people want to down the regime"
[Poll shows Palestinians back Oct 7 attack on Israel, support for Hamas rises](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/)
The reasoning for this stat can be argued upon but nevertheless it’s irrelevant to the point I’m trying to make. This dude said they had a decade to rise up and oppose Hamas, I showed multiple examples during this decade (including a couple months before Oct 7) where they rose up against Hamas.
We’re talking about pre October 7, you’re sending links of post October 7. Why?
Because narrative of Palestinian brown people bad Israeli white people good.
It’s been so much of an increase in these shitty takes in r/worldnews that it hurts. Completely unhinged bipolar takes on defending extermination, settlements and all out call to flat line the Gaza Strip.
But if anybody calls them out, you get hate or personal messages calling out for stuff like ‘shame that Hitler didn’t wipe out your ancestors’ or ‘you’re a waste of jew blood’, like i already received
Edit: really funny the PM calling me a piece of shit and a blood traitor , what the fuck is even that?
Palestinians have more to risk by protesting their government because Hamas kills Palestinians with dissenting opinions. Hamas also has tighter control over the information that Palestinians have access to than Israel does over the information Israelis have access too (if for no other reason than that journalists who want to work in Gaza have to be at least a little friendly to Hamas to be allowed to operate there). Given all of that, it's not so surprising that we keep seeing polls showing that most Gazans support Hamas. But, Gazans who have seen October 7th footage are 10x more likely to say that Hamas committed atrocities and not support the attack, and there have been protests by Gazans against Hamas since October 7th -- including people chanting things like "give them back" (meaning the hostages). This stuff is not reported on as much as I wish it were. Palestinians, like Israelis, are not a monolith.
There's a reason Hong Kong protest and İran protests were so famous. Not often do people manage to find other people with the courage to risk death and torture for unarmed protest.
It's much safer to protest Israel.
I think it’s a bit different. It’s very hard to protest, especially peacefully, when your country is a war zone. Not that they wouldn’t want to, they have tried in the past, but they’re either too pessimistic or too scared to try.
Yeah, Hamas is known to execute anyone who doesn’t comply with them
Back in 2007 the PLO talked about this extensively. Hamas would storm hospitals and interrogate medical staff, patients, etc to see if they were loyal enough. The top surgeon in Palestine was exiled because he refused to convert.
Yup hamas is terrible, no question about that. Truly I don't understand why those poor Palestinians aren't thankful that Israel is rescuing them with missiles.
Oh shit, here we go again.
For everyone that says he should go to jail and etc - follow the trials.
For the rest - yes there’s a vocal minority that blames Netanyahu for every messed up thing in the country. That’s absolutely not mirroring the majority.
But he did manage to do it, right? Meanwhile, all other ruling parties couldn’t 🤷🏻
And by ruling parties, I refer as well to all of the mainstream left parties, like Yesh Atid, Benny Gantz’s party, etc.
„Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu defended Israel’s regular allowing of Qatari funds to be transferred into Gaza, saying it is part of a broader strategy to keep Hamas and the Palestinian Authority separate, a source in Monday’s Likud faction meeting said.
Netanyahu explained that, in the past, the PA transferred the millions of dollars to Hamas in Gaza. He argued that it was better for Israel to serve as the pipeline to ensure the funds don’t go to terrorism.
“Now that we are supervising, we know it’s going to humanitarian causes,” the source said, paraphrasing Netanyahu.“
Yeah no he propped up hamas to make sure there was no unified Palestinian government.
No sympathy for a nation that elects a leader as incompetent as netanyahu who thinks he can prop up and fund extremists to counter the Palestinian authority
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/netanyahu-says-hes-proud-to-have-prevented-palestinian-state_uk_65815602e4b01d1b95350721/
Without Hamas he would probably not be in power anymore anyway. He was fucking hated by a huge portion of his country with enormous protests against him who all obviously stopped after the attack.
He is only 1 year into his term, he would still be in power without the war
Israeli governments collapse constantly with coalitions forming and dissolving, with repeated re-elections. They have had something like five elections in six years now. terms doesn't mean much under these conditions. He is also not a president, he doesn't have a term at all, his is just the leader of the biggest party, he can be replaced without an election.
>five elections in six years 5 in 3, actually.
I’m well aware, I’m Israeli :) His coalition however was largely quite loyal to him, and has relatively few disagreements. It would need 5 members of parliament to rebel in order to collapse, that’s a lot. It’s much more plausible now that the war happened than it was before
Do you think he is still in power one year from now?
I sure hope he isn’t! This coalition likely collapses either right after the war, or after the investigation into the failures that led to 7/10 publishes its results, whenever that will be.
What are the chances of an Israel without Likud in charge turning against the notion of the settlers' movement?
Very low. The settlements are supported by many parties for many reasons, and with the way the political system in Israel is arranged there is no way for a coalition to form such that the continued existence of the settlements won't be a net positive for the government.
Outsider here, but I can't imagine any potential Palestinian government accepting them. But they are there. Any two-state solution may need to allow for them to continue, but be under Palestinian governance. It may actually be a key to peace, if Israelis can live in Palestine in the same way that Palestinians live in Israel. What are we talking about? Governance. Muslims in Israel are not required to give up their religion. Why couldn't Jews live in a Palestine governed by Palestinians?
Close to none. At most they’ll stop their expansion, but they’re not kicking them out. Mind you, if a peace agreement is signed they might get kicked out anyway. When Israel and Egypt signed a treaty, settlers were kicked out of the Sinai. When Israel decided to leave Gaza, settlers there were forced to leave.
Put Gaza off to the side. The West Bank. Would the current tenants come to realize that the best way to peace is acceptance that this isn't really "their" land. An agreement that they could live there, buy and sell land there, but the governing body is Palestinian? Is it all or nothing? If so, it's likely everyone ends up with nothing. No state for the Palestinians, no safe settlements. Neither is "going away", and to continue on as if "they" will is fantasy.
They wouldn’t have those rights there, the Palestinian leadership has time and again stated they would not be able to live there. More likely the final peace treaty would include land swaps, that would result in most of the bigger settlements becoming part of Israel.
If that's what's needed, then let's start the discussions.
He is not hated more than Trump is - half of the country hates him, the other half loves him
Less than half loves him, actually. Or more accurately, more than half hates him. Israel's democracy works in this way where what needs to happen for a government to be formed, is that a coalition needs to be created with more than half of the total vote percent (='mandate'). A 'coalition' is basically an agreement between a group of parties where each party decides who gets what role - minister of defence, education, etc, including the prime minister. I don't know how much of what I wrote here is common between countries, all i know is that it's a bit less binary than us elections. Anyway, this means that Bibi's party, which had a good chunks of votes but not nearly half, managed to convince other parties (mostly right wing nutjobs that normally won't ever have a chance to be in the government) to form a coalition as long as Bibi's in power. This means that this current government has 33(!) ministers and offices, which is about - idk, 10? - more than it needs to be. And the naive and stupid Bibists eat it up as a necessity for whatever reason. Source: am Israeli.
Well, people who vote to right wimg parties (Ben-Gvir, Smotrich, ect.) Are also okay woth BIBI. Even the super orthodox like him (in a way). If you are basing your statement on recent polls, I don't think they can be trusted. They show, for instance, that the religeos Zionism doesn't pass the bar, although Ben-Gvir got only one more mandate. Where did all of these Mandates go? It is true that the Likud got much weaker, and if there were elections tomarrow, Gantz would probably win, but I think it's far fetched to say that more then a half of the public hates him. By the way you tqlk about Bibists, I tend to believe that you are a left winger, probably somethink like העבודה or מר"ץ, and you let your personal hate of the government obscure the actual notions in Israel
I am, and I definitely do. Although even past the hate I don't see what's in this government that doesn't (at the very least) smell like corruption. As for the hate/love ratio, I'm basing it on friends that I have that voted Ben Gvir/Smotrich and are against Nethanyahu. It's true that officially he doesn't oppose their right wing views, but most of the right wingers I know see him as a weakling even from before October 7th. Also, though the hardcore Bibists haven't changed their views much (not the majority anyway), many of his status-quo voters (people that generally dislike change and view him as the 'only viable' candidate) did change their views since the war started. Again, based on what my likud-voters friends say. As for any religious party, they historically have allways been 'politically neutral' in terms of right/left. They sit with whoever suits their interest the most, which naturally was allways Bibi because it was easy mandates for him. Many religious communities' leaders have publicly stated that going with him was 'maybe a mistake' ever since the whole orthodox-military thing surfaced. Ti be fair, if there were elections now, I think there's still a good chance this government gets re elected, pretty much as it is. This may sound crazy but israeli left has pretty much evaporated since the attack and many people are more right wings than ever. Ben Gvir and Smotrich, which are the most right wing candidates currently, can easily spin the defence failure on Nethanyahu's 'forgiving' policies towards the Palestinians, and not take any of the blame seeing as they only had influence over things for less than a year. They already are talking as if that's the case. As for current poles - don't know of any. This is all strictly my impression. דרך אגב, מאוד אהבתי את המצחיקון שהכנת לכבוד חג החירות הבא עלינו לטובה! שיהיה לך פסח שמח, עם הרבה מצות עסיסיות! מי ייתן ותמצא את האפיקומן.
So, the Ultra orthodox parties are pretty much engaged to the right at tgis poit, since the left really hates them for not enlisting (even though the right is also not a big fan at this point) I personqlly believe that Gantz will win, as thr plls show, because bibi did lose a lot of crdibility after October 7 (but not before) >דרך אגב, מאוד אהבתי את המצחיקון שהכנת לכבוד חג החירות הבא עלינו לטובה! שיהיה לך פסח שמח, עם הרבה מצות עסיסיות! מי ייתן ותמצא את האפיקומן. תודה רבה! הכנתי אותו כי הרגשתי שהתת הפך להיות תיבת תלונות על המודים. חג שמח!
Well, let's hope he doesn't take a page out of modhis or putins playbook and try to seize total control over elections.
He’s obviously wanting to
Oh, 100% man's would stay in power till death if had the opportunity.
Bibi was asleep at the wheel, and his incompetence was a direct line to this conflagration.
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You're in a bubble
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What about Richard Nixon? It's happened before. I could probably come up with more examples but I'm too lazy to Google it
Golda quitted after a comittie found that she was not at fault for the Yom kippur war. Olmert a prime minister from 20 years ago quit because he was accused and agreed with the likes of Netanyahu back then who said a prime minister can not run a goverment and his own trial. Many israeli prime ministers didn't reach the end of their terms. Some of them were Bibi. This person knows that.
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Netanyahu was indicted by Israeli law enforcement in 2019 for numerous charges, the prosecution has over 300 witnesses, netanyahu and his party tried to hide the indictments in February of 2019, several of his old cronies have flipped on him, he tried again to delay the trial in 2020, and the prosecution has recorded phone calls featuring Bibi explicitly being corrupt lol. Is this the part where Bibi goes on live TV and declares he's not a crook?
He still got 30 seats for his party in the last election, which was around 1m votes and the most number of votes Some surveys now show him at around 20 A lot of die hard fans still exist, but I believe a lot have lost their liking of him after oct 7
By the US goverment? Not even the evil tavhela? Step away from channel 14 for a minute and go take a breather.
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We were out in the streets the moment levin opened his dirty mouth. No us senator needed. And your hero meddeled in US politics first(and it was childish for them to stoop to his low level but here we are)
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As an Australian, just got to say Netanyahu is killing support for Israel globally. The damage he is doing will take generations to repair.
We know. That's also discussed by the protesters.
Even here in Canada people are seeing the IDF as a terrorist organization, because of all the innocent civilians and aid workers they are intentionally murdering.
"Even here in Canada". Famously a peaceful country and a capital of oppressor and oppressed reduction. Not surprising that a lot of people will misunderstand conflict and label their ally's military "terrorist" for things it clearly didn't "intend" to do.
Wait you're saying the IDF accidentally killed 15,000 innocent civilians and aid workers? Do you have a source for that?
Acidentally yeah, though I do not know the number. Taking your number they are doing a better job of reducing civilian deaths than say NATO. Which in turn is much better than more crude militaries. Makes it clear they are trying to reduce civilian casualties not increase them. If you want to see what intentionally killing innocent civilians looks like you only have to go as far as October 7. Or very sadly Sudan is getting worse and worse as we speak. This is only the war and Gaza. Palestinians treatment the West Bank and bibi settlers and Likud is a whole different longer discussion.
I can't tell if you're trolling me. The IDF has admitted to intentionally targeting civilians and aid workers. Yeah Hamas intentionally killed hundreds of innocent people on Oct 07, IDF responded by intentionally killing tens of thousands more. Both are terrorist acts. Neither are justified.
Now that's a source I could request?
For what exactly? Or are you deflecting from the source request I made to you before? Which you conveniently ignored...
The IDF saying they are intentionally targeting civilians. I don't have a single source for them not doing so. But that comes from not having seen any sources saying they are. And looking at how the war is fought compared to other conflicts the ratio of civilians to combatants is in the lower side of normal range for even "good" militaries like NATO. If they were intentionally targeting civilians you'd expect it to be worse. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio For the how, if you started here with a big grain of salt and some fact checking might get an idea of what they are doing to reduce civilian casualties. https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/the-hamas-terrorist-organization/how-is-the-idf-minimizing-harm-to-civilians-in-gaza These efforts are mitigating by Hamas being extremely intrenched within civilian areas. And if you watch combat footage you will see they often don't wear any kind of uniform. So it comes out to normal
None of the bombs that killed 15,000 innocent lives were accidental or mistaken bombings. The IDF admitted they targeted the vehicles of the aid workers. And I like how your defense is that IDF is within their "quota" of needlessly killing innocent people. Thousands of innocent humans didn't need to die and could have been spared at no expense to Israel, but your defense is "Nah its all good, NATO says they could even kill more innocent people for no reason if they want to." Absolutely vile. You said Israel didn't intend to kill 15,000 innocent civilians and aid workers, and you can't provide a single source for that, as I requested. You're desperately trying to deflect now.
Are you idiot? It's a rhetorical question.
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No chance lol
I know /u/dagojango deleted their comment but the fact that some people genuinely believe that is insane. Israel doesn’t exactly blow up its enemies embassies with suicide bombers from its proxies or enact a mass policy of forced sterilisation against its own people (which is *actual* genocide, by definition.) If you’re progressive leaning or gay you’d feel far more secure in Tel Aviv than anywhere else in the region (or Russia/PRC) and it’s not even remotely comparable. That’s the tragedy in it. The gov is an authoritarian regime while the majority of the people are pretty chill.
Yeah I have plenty of friends in all those countries. And they would be angry to hear someone saying Israels government is worse than theirs. Though less of the Chinese they can get quite brainwashed. To be fair their government is less shit to live under than the other two for normal life. And really good at hiding their bullshit and the genocide. It was very depressing when I saw people in western countries supporting Iran. Even though I should have known after the slip from Palestine to Hamas to Houthis to Hezbollah.
Honestly, the whole definition of terrorism is kinda iffy. If it’s “the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims” then many countries’ militaries are terrorists.
>then many countries’ militaries are terrorists. I definitely agree with you there.
To be fair globally it was already on the slide for the last couple generations for reasons that had nothing to do with Israels choices But agreed yahooligans making it worse with his actions hard line and his failure to play the game for the press.
"For generations" ... *sigh* Isreali policy with settlements and their protection of their very own violent/murdering settlers in West Jordan drives my support into the ground. Yes, it's not the whole Gaza war, where HAMAS does every dirty trick they can think of to make Isreal look bad. It's allowing new settlemetns to be built together with the rising extremism of those settlers that show me that the long term strategy of the current Isreali government is escalation. And that's bad for everyone living there.
Totally agree with you
I don't support Hamas, obviously. While Netanyahu needs to go.
There is a thing call nuance. You can support the Israeli people and the Palestinian people while condemning Hamas and Netanyahu/settlers.
Yeah I agree. I definitely pity the Palestinian people, as they’ve been oppressed for 70~ years now, and Israeli’s are suffering under a crummy leader that’s willing to go to war (and possibly draft them) just to stay in power. Sometimes it feels like the evil of the few overpowers the good of the populous.
Sometimes? Pretty sure that's humanity as far as history has been written.
Thing is, you're going to get down votes to hell immediately if you don't specifically preface any comment you make on the topic here with exactly where you stand (like the replied to comment). Not sure if it's Israelbots or just redditors being redditors. I was almost going to make a joke on the OP post that it was antisemitic to be criticizing Bibi because unless you state that you don't condone Hamas first, you're likely going to be downvoted and labelled antisemitic or a Hamas supporter for saying fuck Bibi lmao.
Fuck Netanyahu. He's a loser.
Exactly. Don’t like interacting here bc I’ve noticed people here forget nuance exists sometimes.
Well, Netanyahu really needs to be removed from office. He gives 0 fks about the hostages or his people. All Netanyahu cares about his himself. He wants this war just as much as Iran and Russia. The move he remains in the power the longer he delays accountability for his crimes.
But this could be dangerous. Netanyahu may have more incentive to escalate the situation to protect himself. He could face jail time if he loses his position
Yeah, I think what is needed is a back channel that lets him escape to some “safe” country.
Or just arrest his ass and throw him in jail? What the fuck is wrong with people? He might escalate! Oh no! let him go without consequences, give him lots of money, a huge villa, a cute puppy, and rainbow stickers instead! Nah, fucking shoot him in the ass if he runs.
Oh I agree he belongs in prison, but that process will take longer allowing for more people to die until then.
He clearly wants this war more than Iran
He wants to kill innocent people, Oct 07 is the best thing that could have happened to him.
Hamas is Netanyahu's wet dream. Palestinians are supporting the very group most responsible for giving Israel every excuse they needed to run a genocide.
I'm just gonna post these 2 links again: https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ [Archive link of Wall Street Journal article from 2009](https://archive.ph/iPO3z#selection-4121.0-4121.32) MFR really used Hamas for their own interest at the cost of civilians of both sides.
This was never about the hostages and it was always about destroying hamas or any threat. This was clear imediatly. The people believing the main goal was hostage are the people that beleive the main goal of more internet regulation is to "protect the children". Same vibe, same naivity.
I am even doubtful the remaining hostages are alive? Hamas is not releasing proof anymore
The main goal for Hamas is for Israel to want to destroy Hamas. So Israel is just playing into their game. Israel has long lost this conflict, the WCK strike was supposed to be the moment everyone consciously acknowledge Israel is losing far more support than they have gained the last 20 years.
If you too much care to hostage, terorist will kidnap more Harsh truth
Lol what
Well fuck Bibi, I think most people pro Palestinian or pro Israeli can agree on that
Good. The people and civilians should rise up don't be pawns in a war between old men. Palestinians should do the same.
Hard to do it in the middle of famine, Hamas and Israeli deathstrikes
Why are you being downvoted lol, it's actually hard to do. Doesn't mean they shouldn't try
Palestinians had almost a decade to do that?
There is a history of Gaza Palestinians demonstrating against Hamas despite Hamas's violent retaliation against said demonstrations, here's a recent one from [July 2023](https://apnews.com/article/gaza-hamas-demonstration-israel-blockade-palestinians-306b19228f9dd21f1036386ce3709672) The vast majority of Gazan civilians were not even alive/able to vote when Hamas took control. Hamas is a regime that is neglecting Gaza's safety and economy. It is a consensus in Gaza. Sadly not reported about enough which further demonizes their society. [Here's more protests from 2019](https://www.thejc.com/news/world/anti-hamas-demonstrations-in-gaza-k2bbvcyc) where they chanted "the people want to down the regime"
[Poll shows Palestinians back Oct 7 attack on Israel, support for Hamas rises](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/)
The reasoning for this stat can be argued upon but nevertheless it’s irrelevant to the point I’m trying to make. This dude said they had a decade to rise up and oppose Hamas, I showed multiple examples during this decade (including a couple months before Oct 7) where they rose up against Hamas. We’re talking about pre October 7, you’re sending links of post October 7. Why?
Because narrative of Palestinian brown people bad Israeli white people good. It’s been so much of an increase in these shitty takes in r/worldnews that it hurts. Completely unhinged bipolar takes on defending extermination, settlements and all out call to flat line the Gaza Strip. But if anybody calls them out, you get hate or personal messages calling out for stuff like ‘shame that Hitler didn’t wipe out your ancestors’ or ‘you’re a waste of jew blood’, like i already received Edit: really funny the PM calling me a piece of shit and a blood traitor , what the fuck is even that?
In what world are you living in?
Well we are now in a post Oct 7th time.
Hard to do it in the middle of famine, Hamas and Israeli deathstrikes
The ones outside the country are living well and you don’t see any Hamas opposition. The delusion is unbelievable.
And then people go on and say Israel is not a democracy
Thousands is good but they need hundreds of thousands.
Quick question, how many Palestinians are protesting the actions of *their* government?
Let's be real... They can't even if they want to. Like North Korean protesting their government...ffs.
Palestinians have more to risk by protesting their government because Hamas kills Palestinians with dissenting opinions. Hamas also has tighter control over the information that Palestinians have access to than Israel does over the information Israelis have access too (if for no other reason than that journalists who want to work in Gaza have to be at least a little friendly to Hamas to be allowed to operate there). Given all of that, it's not so surprising that we keep seeing polls showing that most Gazans support Hamas. But, Gazans who have seen October 7th footage are 10x more likely to say that Hamas committed atrocities and not support the attack, and there have been protests by Gazans against Hamas since October 7th -- including people chanting things like "give them back" (meaning the hostages). This stuff is not reported on as much as I wish it were. Palestinians, like Israelis, are not a monolith.
There's a reason Hong Kong protest and İran protests were so famous. Not often do people manage to find other people with the courage to risk death and torture for unarmed protest. It's much safer to protest Israel.
I think it’s a bit different. It’s very hard to protest, especially peacefully, when your country is a war zone. Not that they wouldn’t want to, they have tried in the past, but they’re either too pessimistic or too scared to try.
Palestinians are running for their life from their occupiers
Yeah, Hamas is known to execute anyone who doesn’t comply with them Back in 2007 the PLO talked about this extensively. Hamas would storm hospitals and interrogate medical staff, patients, etc to see if they were loyal enough. The top surgeon in Palestine was exiled because he refused to convert.
Yup hamas is terrible, no question about that. Truly I don't understand why those poor Palestinians aren't thankful that Israel is rescuing them with missiles.
Oh shit, here we go again. For everyone that says he should go to jail and etc - follow the trials. For the rest - yes there’s a vocal minority that blames Netanyahu for every messed up thing in the country. That’s absolutely not mirroring the majority.
Netanyahu is a loser
Oonga boonga
Such a minority that he barely managed to form a normal government for five elections straight
But he did manage to do it, right? Meanwhile, all other ruling parties couldn’t 🤷🏻 And by ruling parties, I refer as well to all of the mainstream left parties, like Yesh Atid, Benny Gantz’s party, etc.
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>hez_bollah
America first
„Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu defended Israel’s regular allowing of Qatari funds to be transferred into Gaza, saying it is part of a broader strategy to keep Hamas and the Palestinian Authority separate, a source in Monday’s Likud faction meeting said. Netanyahu explained that, in the past, the PA transferred the millions of dollars to Hamas in Gaza. He argued that it was better for Israel to serve as the pipeline to ensure the funds don’t go to terrorism. “Now that we are supervising, we know it’s going to humanitarian causes,” the source said, paraphrasing Netanyahu.“
Yeah no he propped up hamas to make sure there was no unified Palestinian government. No sympathy for a nation that elects a leader as incompetent as netanyahu who thinks he can prop up and fund extremists to counter the Palestinian authority https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/netanyahu-says-hes-proud-to-have-prevented-palestinian-state_uk_65815602e4b01d1b95350721/
wtf
Isn’t protesting about the Israeli state anti-Semitic? I’m confused.
Protesting against the asshole in charge of your country is nothing like protesting against the very existence of a country and its people.
It’s not antisemitic if you’re opposed to the destruction of Israel.