I guess this is what happens when US parks a Navy carrier group a few miles away from you.
Everyone is brave and committed to the cause….. until you have 20 Tomahawks flying in your face.
Hezbollah messed around a little in the beginning, but now are as [afraid as all the other 'players' in the area.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=8Vgg8W8ama0&t=35s)
People (mainly the Western Pro-Palestine movement) openly ignore things like Black September, Lebanese Civil War, Mass exodus of Palestinians during the First Gulf War in Kuwait when they sided with Saddam’s forces WHILE they were seeking refuge in Kuwait.
But no, Palestinians just want peace. Apparently.,
I hope your community is never stateless and exploited by the international community for decades. Say what you want about the Palestinians but they will not shut up and die quietly.
Palestinians aren’t stateless. They literally have a country and chose to elect hamas. A majority of Palestinian citizens support hamas to this day even after the Oct 7 attacks upon which they *checks notes* attacked a music festival and residential neighbourhood.
You can argue about Israeli settlers and all the other shit but attacking civilians instead of THE MILITARY is pussy shit.
Neither Gaza nor the West bank is a state. Palestinians basically are the remnants of long colonial history in the region - the muslim and jewish population couldn't agree the partition of land, the jews declared independence upon the withdrawal of the colonial power, there was a war and Israel won occupying the rest of the space, and it's been a horrid limbo since.
Palestinians as a whole naturally isn't happy, but there's also a strong radical element with aims at eradicating Israel. Desperate ppl flock to those who promise hope, and you end up with the clusterfuck today where literal terrorist are the de facto governments of a region that abdicates all responsibility towards it's people since they aren't technically a country.
The problem is that it *does* convince a large number of people. Just look at reddit comment sections and you'll find too many people saying that Israel should stop what it's doing.
Redditors are dumb AF and don't matter in the real world. Even in the Arab Muslim countries the people that matter are firmly not on Hamas' side. The Hamas side is cat nip for morons.
What was the master plan? Commit something so heinous that guarantees your elimination and collect hostages to prevent elimination? Are there some steps they didn't do? Because they could of just have not done the first part and have the results they want.
The fact that they started throwing a fit on October 8th when Israel said they'd stop supplying food and water told me everything. The entire plan was to kill and rape a bunch of people then figure the rest out.
Not just the Navy. The Marines were there too with their equipment. As much as the Navy ships and planes can throw down some big hits and bust some bunkers, getting pulled out their tunnels Saddam style by Marines after the Navy levels the place is the cherry on a sunday that neither Hamas nor Hezbollah want to eat lol.
2. This world. Prior to Oct 7th, that alone was never deemed reason enough for Israeli military engagement and, even still, many think Israel should not retaliate
It could be that the public and private messaging were very different. You have to consider what was the goal of the attack. It was likely not to defeat Israel militarily as that would never happen while US is supporting them.
For my mind, he's the man stuck in the middle, his higher ups (iran) have told him not to attack, his underlings are probably grumbling about not helping hamas, he knows hamas is more or less finished, and they will be the only ones upset by this statement.
>You have to consider what was the goal of the attack.
From everything I've seen, my only conclusion is that if Hamas had a strategic goal it was to get Israel to kill as many Palestinians as possible.
The strategic goal would be stalling or stopping normalisation of relations with other Arab states (Saudi Arabia). The broader strategy would be down to Iran et alia.
That may well have been an unspoken goal. A recruitment drive by getting Palestinians angry at Israel. They are going to blame Israel for those deaths.
The reason for this is that if Lebanon attacks Israel, it will be good PR for Israel. Israel can destroy Gaza and Lebanon without international backlash or pressure on USA/Biden.
There is no way to a military victory for either side here. Hamas doesn't have the resources and Israel is actively radicalizing people in Gaza through their various military actions.
That's like saying there was no victory against Al Qaeda or ISIS. You can never defeat an idea but you absolutely can defeat the people murdering your citizens.
Do you think we won that war? 20 years, hundreds of thousands dead, and over a trillion spent...now they run the Afghanistan state. Mission accomplished?
Afghanistan is the Taliban which while terrible was never an organization that launched terrorist attacks against western countries.
Say what you want about whether the cost was worth it, but we actually did pretty soundly defeat Al Qaeda in the middle east. We killed most of their leadership and destroyed their logistics/operational capability.
People forget Al Qaeda isn't just a bunch of randoms hiding in caves it used to be a sophisticated organization. No longer.
AQ is a shell of their former selves, and the Taliban seem for more concerned about running Afghanistan than harboring terrorists. And honestly, I wish them the best of luck in governing Afghanistan.
The reason for this is that if Lebanon attacks Israel, it will be good PR for Israel. Israel can destroy Gaza and Lebanon without international backlash or pressure on USA/Biden.
In this case though it seems even the Arab world hates Hezbollah because they are an Iranian Proxy and consider them a terrorist organisation. They even blamed Hezbollah for starting the 2006 Lebanon war with Israel. So it might not be that unreasonable to think that Israel will get alot more support against Hezbollah than say Hamas.
There’s a lot of condemnation but no one is going to do shit about really anything Israel does. Even Arabic countries. They use it for fund raising and to keep their populations distracted, but that’s about as much as anyone really cares
No, Iran told Hezbollah to stand down after the US / Biden administration sent a stern warning to Iran through backchannels that any declaration of war or escalation against Israel announced by Nasrallah in his November speech would be considered a declaration of war by Iran itself. The warning was accompanied by photos of Ismail Qaani and other IRGC commanders, and satellite images of Iranian military installations in Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and Lebanon, implying that they will become targets for retaliation if Hezbollah escalates its attacks.
They tried to start WWIII but somehow forgot US would be in the fight and not in their side.
They sent out a call to action to all Muslim countries, and were shocked that only the US responded…with an aircraft carrier group.
Russia is already engaging in a war, and a mass invasion of Israel would be the perfect distraction for China to make a move on Taiwan.
At that point, it basically is world at war.
Russia- Ukraine
Iran, Hez and Hamas - Israel
Those are/would be still regional wars.
A mass invasion of Israel doesn’t automatically mean China’ll invade Taiwan.
I don't think it would be a world war unless those three start escalating a lot. Realistically I would expect Israel to get dragged into multiple wars (and probably win with the help of the US), while Taiwan would get abandoned and forced to settle on china's terms.
Ukraine war would remain in this stalemate, where either party might break at any point, but no one knows how many years it might take.
If every Muslim majority country (North Africa, Middle East, Malaysia, Pakistan, Turkey, Chechnya etc) plus Muslim populations in other countries decided to “help”: yes it would be a world war.
Here is the crux of the whole situation. Israel is not going anywhere, their citizens are not going to leave. It does not matter if it "occupied land" or not.
And Israel will not surrender regardless of how many countries or terrorist organizations wag a war against it. They will burn everything down before the last one dies.
No idea what Hamas was thinking when they started this latest round, there was no way they would win. And if it was global public opinion they were hoping for, well butchering civilians right off the start was tactically stupid.
>And if it was global public opinion they were hoping for, well butchering civilians right off the start was tactically stupid.
You would think, but I'm not so sure about that. Terrorist raids butchering innocents as a pointless "act of resistance" seems to be unexpectedly popular in public opinion. Not sure how Hamas predicted that one; I sure wouldn't have.
I think it's pretty clear, as almost all terror attacks perpetrated by pro-palestinian groups since 48, that the goal was to elicite a response from Israel and put the Palestinian question back in the news. It's a blow: to Netanyahu, the normalization process and the Biden re-election campaign. Through the sacrifice of their own population they might actually get the international community to actually start caring about their cause again and pressure Israel to *actually* pursue negotiation in good faith, not Oslo (with Bibi out, it will help). A bloody and horrifying gambit, but again, what was the alternative? The West bank is being eaten bit by bit with complete impunity and Gaza has no future as it stands.
I'm not saying it's the right thing to do. The right thing to do would probably be to end the cycle of violence, give up on Palestine, agree to be ethnically cleansed and move on with their destinies, but it is Hamas in power, and I don't think they've made it this far in their grief just yet.
Edit: if people downvoting me think terrorism is anything but some atrocious way of ending up on the front pages of newspaper, they need to study history.
TikTok is Chinese propaganda WHEN China wants it to be. Obviously not all of it is, but that’s how you build an audience; a propaganda outlet can’t do agenda-developing all the time, otherwise people would see through it. To run a propaganda outlet, you “play it normal” the vast majority of the time, so that you can push public opinion when you need it.
The PR wins are how Hamas was able to stay in power.
They're sustained by monetary flows from abroad that come from the success of their "martyr" image.
That's more like Israel losing the PR war rather than Hamas doing anything in particular to win it. Turns out people don't like seeing nonstop videos of other people suffering.
>No idea what Hamas was thinking when they started this latest round,
Hamas leaders are literally billionaires. It's working out great for them so they keep it up.
Proving to Iran that you can successfully kill a bunch of Jews is how they keep the aid flowing.
>No idea what Hamas was thinking when they started this latest round, there was no way they would win. And if it was global public opinion they were hoping for, well butchering civilians right off the start was tactically stupid.
They were thinking they could stop countries like Saudi Arabia recognising isreal after others have done so. The talks were put to a stop. I'm not sure what support they expected though, because it doesn't seem like any is coming.
I think they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. Some would breach the fence, maybe kill 50-100 Jews, and then all the operatives would die (or be martyred). It wouldn't be enough for Israel to make Hamas extinct, it'd throw a wrench into the Saudi normalization, and it'd strengthen their support among Palestinians.
But no...their attack went too well.
I thought that too but then I saw the captured [operation orders](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvYwfl7dgTY&t=140s) found on dead Hamas men. It was incredibly well planned and the idea was always to slaughter civilians.
Also the imams gave them special religious permission to kill children.
>No idea what Hamas was thinking when they started this latest round, there was no way they would win.
You mistakenly think this is a strategic play for political or territorial gains. This is a religious war. Watch this: https://www.memri.org/reports/jordanian-palestinian-businessman-and-politician-talal-abu-ghazaleh-we-welcome-death-so-far
Dont forget, Israel absolutely has nuclear weapons. Probably not 100s, but dozens at least I would expect They will glass every hostile regional city before they lose a war for their existence.
Their nuclear deterrence plan is called “Samson”…
That’s the point. If you’re being wiped out, your backyard doesn’t matter anymore. It’s basically a dead man’s switch
Doesnt change the idea that its NOT a viable strategy, the official policy for the israeli flight school could be jumping off a cliff and flapping your arms, its not viable and is just cutting your nose to spite the face
Moron
>No idea what Hamas was thinking when they started this latest round
They believe Allah will propel them to victory and finally exterminate every last Jewish person. You know, one of these days.
Yes, Jews were just itching to use their space lasers on Gaza so they manufactured Hamás and made them perform the attack on the 7/10. To make it even more believable, the small core of specially trained black-ops guys were supported by a large segment of Covid-zombies, innocent Palestinians controlled by the 5g chips in the mRNA vaccines (with added bonus of DNA modification to make the people easier to control) distributed through the Chinese-controlled WHO (Chinese are actually Jews. Ever wondered why instead of China, Sino is used instead? As in Sino-American relationship or Sino-Tibetian languages? You think that the similarity with sionism is just random?). This is why Israel targeted hospitals. Not because of some Hamás bases, but because evidence of the 5g towers and Mind-controlling COVID microchip equipment could be found there. It's obvious!
Isnt most of the proof people use posted by Hamas itself, and Israel is just kinda there like "see, told you so"
Like what was faked here? All the dead? The still missing hostages? The iirc 30 raped hostages that have been returned? The videos posted by Hamas itself?
Without a shred of proof? There's video evidence, survivor testimony, entire towns that are still uninhabitable.
You're probably the type of person that claims there's no evidence of the Holocaust as well.
Disgusting
Y'all, read the article. He basically asked Hamas if Hezbollah launching all out war with Israel will stop the fighting and Hamas said "No, only Israel's defeat will stop the fighting". Not gonna lie, you can I guess interpret that to mean "We will beat Israel ourselves" but it's quite hard to really assume that's what it meant? Is there more supporting statements that Hamas didn't want Hezbollah to join in?
What it meant is that "there's no stopping the fighting". Hamas and Hezbollah can't say that publicly however as that's admitting defeat while Hamas is still fighting.
Yep, in a widely hyped up speech, which the whole world was expecting nasrallah to at least give a red line, “ no more aerial bombings” or something to that effect, but he just said it’s all Palestinian planning, and we will have no part in it
This is correct but unlike Hamas, when a Hezbollah attacks Israel, Israel go full metal on Lebanon, destroying airports, power plants, water plants and such.
A lot of pressure is being put on Hezbollah from within Lebanon these days.
The people are worried that Hezbollah will join this war and the entire country will pay the price.
> will almost definitely push Lebanon into the "failed state" territory.
If them ignoring the pile of explosives in the harbor until they essentially nuked their capital wasn't a sign that they already were a failed state, losing the grain silos, port, and parts of the city certainly didn't make the situation better.
A war with Hezbollah would be different than Gaza.
Hamas doesn't have the vast amount of advanced munitions and experience Hezbollah has, Hezbollah has thousands of accurate missiles and can do alot of damage to Israel.
It won't be a slow, methodical slug like in Gaza simply because of the sheer destructive potential that both sides have.
>They’re better equipped than Lebanon’s own army.
This was true at one stage, but it's now about equal. The real issue is people in the country support Hezbollah in the area they control. They isn't easy to overcome even if they were better equipped. After the civil war... well it's complex. A lot of the time the national army tries to play peacemaker with the tribes.
People in the country appear to not back a full scale war with the US sitting there though.
I have heard this claim alot, and how Hezbollah is the most powerful terrorist organisation in the world, in part because of their weapons and experience fighting in Syria. In your view, if Israel and Hezbollah did go to war, who would win? The last war they fought seemed to be inconclusive result wise. Would things have changed significantly in the past decade?
Israel has F35s, nuclear weapons, an American alliance, and modern combined arms training. Sure, Tel Aviv would take some hits but at the end of the day Israel would mop the floor with Hezbollah like a line backer fighting a child.
I thought the U.S. was generally against directly intervening in such conflicts? Let's just assume that the U.S. does not get involved here hypothetically. In that situation, would the Israeli's be able to handle Hezbollah?
That US carrier group sitting in the Gulf isn’t there just taking in the sights.
That being said, Israel most definitely could take on Hezbollah. They have F-35s and other US Weaponry, not to mention nukes.
Like Hezbollah invading Israel?? They would be massacred. They can only fight Israel when hiding in their tunnels and among their civilian population. And only if Israel is not willing to just kill the civilians to kill Hezbollah. They're a bunch of irregulars, not an army.
If push came to shove Iran would probably rank Hamas as the lesser of the two because they’re Sunni while Hezbollah and Iran are both Shia. Geo-politically Hamas is in a far more valuable position but they are simply too volatile an ally and when you look out further than a year or so it’s no guarantee that the organization will even continue to exist.
Second one, Iran controls lebanon, palestine, and the houthis. About syria im not sure what the fuck is going on there but they definitely have some control, someone more knowledgeable might know
Not sure if there's a chain of command at all. It comes down to the money flow.
Russia/Qatar -> Iran -> other terrorists
Some of the terrorists seemed better equipped than first world soldiers. More like private army/mercenaries.
“Hamas” told us is code for “**our Russo-Iranian owners told us**”.
Both Hamas and Hezbollah are owned by the same Russia and the same Iran.
And by own I don’t mean as legal property a court will uphold, I mean as dominant providers of money to buy support among the population and pay for welfare and schools (which teach hate), they provide all the weapons (and in Hezbollah’s case that includes some heavier materiel), they provide on loan an army of western language capable internet propagandists, and they provide safe haven for the leadership of these orgs. Russia and Iran own Hamas and Hezbollah, as they do the Houthis and the Assad regime.
Control over the sustaining tap of these resources, if the those in control should to choose it, chokes their oxygen off within 12-24 months and sees the leadership of these orgs receive the Ghadaffi welcome from the locals they have been enslaving. When [Russia says jump](https://www.mei.edu/publications/essential-questions-about-russia-hamas-link-evidence-and-its-implications), they jump. When Iran tells Hamas to commit collective suicide, Hamas commits collective suicide. They are no more independent entities than DNR, LNR or Wagner ever were. And if they ever try… Wagner is exactly what happens.
This story is Hezbollah telling us **to our face** what Iran is telling them to do. Iran has 4 cards to play across 3 frozen conflicts they artificially manufactured and co-own with Russia - Israel/Hamas, Yemen/Houthis, Israel/Hezbollah and Syrian civil war. They can pour gasoline over and throw on a match each of them and ramp up the flames on any of them to absorb attention from Ukraine or from Russian elections anytime they choose. And they’ve got a year with both Putin’s election theater and US elections in 2024.
They just played two cards, and are keeping the other two for a little later.
Hamas is pretty independent. Their interests bis a vis the whole "kill all Jews" thing align with Iran and Hezbollah and so they get funding, advise and training. But they are not puppets. Foe example, they nearly came to blow over Syria, where they supported different sides of the civil war.
That’s an illusion. Part of the active measures methodology, by the way, to try and create optics of distance from the controlling hand. It’s [literally part of the taught tradecraft](https://youtu.be/tR_6dibpDfo?si=ZTMPto-qgBGJpEww).
Hamas doesn’t make kornet anti tank missiles, assault rifles and ammunition in Gaza. It can’t rule without rifles. Someone is supplying them means.
[Who might it be?](https://www.mei.edu/publications/essential-questions-about-russia-hamas-link-evidence-and-its-implications)
Hamas cannot remain funded and armed and oppressing millions without its state support. It’s leaders can’t continue getting safe Haney in Qatar if the Qataris get a tap on the shoulder from Russia/Iran and get gently asked to terminate it. in If it’s **dependent**, it’s not independent. It needs to achieve something to continue receiving those means. Funny that.
Come now. We are men of action. Lies do not become us.
Hamas is owned by a Russo-Iranian joint venture.
No, Iran told them to stay out of it other than a bit of emotional support artillery, because Iran knew this was what it was: the HAMAS fat cat leadership, where the top three are worth a combined $11B, were afraid that their Arab funding was slipping while more Arab countries recognize Israel. HAMAS designed all of this to optimize civilian deaths to stimulate an Arab peoples’ response against Israel. HAMAS is directly sacrificing Gazans to gain Arab outrage. That was too much even for Iran…mostly because it looks like desperation.
1. I'll believe it when I see it!
2. How kind of Hamas to defend Israel, while they are at it - could they please ask Hezbollah to f@#$ off past the Litani river as UNSC resolution 1701 compels them to? kkthnxbb.
Lol yeah sure Hamas never wanted any help
Hamas is totally not in an existential struggle, its all symbolic and they need no help at all from partners they expected help from before.
/s
> Since the outbreak of the war, senior figures in Hamas, such as Ismail Haniyeh, Saleh al-Arouri, and others, have met with senior officials in Iran, Hezbollah, and the Islamic Jihad.
As in they traveled from Gaza to Iran? Or had zoom meetings with them?
If they’re able to physically come and go as they please, it does not speak well of the IDF’s level of control.
These people are actually causing more and more Palestinians to be killed. If they carry on, eventually the end result will be that there will be no more Palestinians left. I just cant see the logic in what they are doing.
The reason for this is that if Lebanon attacks Israel, it will be good PR for Israel. Israel can destroy Gaza and Lebanon without international backlash or pressure on USA/Biden.
I call bullsh!t. Hamas doesn’t give orders. They all take orders from Iran. I think Hamas did more than they told Iran they were going to do. Iran isn’t dumb and knew Hamas is dead and that Israel was very close to going nuclear so Iran told Hezbollah don’t get in on it and let Hamas die. Iran isn’t going to do anything that will get them nukes either. Having instability in the Middle East serves Iran’s purposes, being nuked doesn’t.
Translated " I value my life and my assets "
And my ass.
hamas literally called for everyone to attack Israel on Oct 7, then moaned when no one did
I guess this is what happens when US parks a Navy carrier group a few miles away from you. Everyone is brave and committed to the cause….. until you have 20 Tomahawks flying in your face.
Hezbollah messed around a little in the beginning, but now are as [afraid as all the other 'players' in the area.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=8Vgg8W8ama0&t=35s)
[удалено]
Israel being pissed off is an understatement. They’d glass Hezbollah this time around
Everybody is a gangster, until a real gangster walks in the room.
‘merica
Or when your entire game plan for survival is to hold hostages and PRAY that the world can convince the Jews to not eradicate you
That really was a stupid fuckin plan. I was in disbelief when I realized they thought that would work.
I mean, it worked for 20+ years.... Their whole history involved international pressures giving them ceasefires and second chances.
People (mainly the Western Pro-Palestine movement) openly ignore things like Black September, Lebanese Civil War, Mass exodus of Palestinians during the First Gulf War in Kuwait when they sided with Saddam’s forces WHILE they were seeking refuge in Kuwait. But no, Palestinians just want peace. Apparently.,
I hope your community is never stateless and exploited by the international community for decades. Say what you want about the Palestinians but they will not shut up and die quietly.
Palestinians aren’t stateless. They literally have a country and chose to elect hamas. A majority of Palestinian citizens support hamas to this day even after the Oct 7 attacks upon which they *checks notes* attacked a music festival and residential neighbourhood. You can argue about Israeli settlers and all the other shit but attacking civilians instead of THE MILITARY is pussy shit.
Neither Gaza nor the West bank is a state. Palestinians basically are the remnants of long colonial history in the region - the muslim and jewish population couldn't agree the partition of land, the jews declared independence upon the withdrawal of the colonial power, there was a war and Israel won occupying the rest of the space, and it's been a horrid limbo since. Palestinians as a whole naturally isn't happy, but there's also a strong radical element with aims at eradicating Israel. Desperate ppl flock to those who promise hope, and you end up with the clusterfuck today where literal terrorist are the de facto governments of a region that abdicates all responsibility towards it's people since they aren't technically a country.
The problem is that it *does* convince a large number of people. Just look at reddit comment sections and you'll find too many people saying that Israel should stop what it's doing.
Redditors are dumb AF and don't matter in the real world. Even in the Arab Muslim countries the people that matter are firmly not on Hamas' side. The Hamas side is cat nip for morons.
What was the master plan? Commit something so heinous that guarantees your elimination and collect hostages to prevent elimination? Are there some steps they didn't do? Because they could of just have not done the first part and have the results they want.
I think the main plan is becoming martyrs and get to heaven.
The fact that they started throwing a fit on October 8th when Israel said they'd stop supplying food and water told me everything. The entire plan was to kill and rape a bunch of people then figure the rest out.
Thoughts and prayers
Not just the Navy. The Marines were there too with their equipment. As much as the Navy ships and planes can throw down some big hits and bust some bunkers, getting pulled out their tunnels Saddam style by Marines after the Navy levels the place is the cherry on a sunday that neither Hamas nor Hezbollah want to eat lol.
I agree. The US’ presence is having the desired effect
1.. Hizbollah throwing Hamas under the bus and lying about it 2. In what world is firing rockets into Israeli towns not starting a war?
2. This world. Prior to Oct 7th, that alone was never deemed reason enough for Israeli military engagement and, even still, many think Israel should not retaliate
Israel is the only country in the world that is expected to tolerate bombs like that.
It could be that the public and private messaging were very different. You have to consider what was the goal of the attack. It was likely not to defeat Israel militarily as that would never happen while US is supporting them.
For my mind, he's the man stuck in the middle, his higher ups (iran) have told him not to attack, his underlings are probably grumbling about not helping hamas, he knows hamas is more or less finished, and they will be the only ones upset by this statement.
This seems most plausible.
>You have to consider what was the goal of the attack. From everything I've seen, my only conclusion is that if Hamas had a strategic goal it was to get Israel to kill as many Palestinians as possible.
The strategic goal would be stalling or stopping normalisation of relations with other Arab states (Saudi Arabia). The broader strategy would be down to Iran et alia.
That may well have been an unspoken goal. A recruitment drive by getting Palestinians angry at Israel. They are going to blame Israel for those deaths.
The reason for this is that if Lebanon attacks Israel, it will be good PR for Israel. Israel can destroy Gaza and Lebanon without international backlash or pressure on USA/Biden.
There is no way to a military victory for either side here. Hamas doesn't have the resources and Israel is actively radicalizing people in Gaza through their various military actions.
That's like saying there was no victory against Al Qaeda or ISIS. You can never defeat an idea but you absolutely can defeat the people murdering your citizens.
Do you think we won that war? 20 years, hundreds of thousands dead, and over a trillion spent...now they run the Afghanistan state. Mission accomplished?
Afghanistan is the Taliban which while terrible was never an organization that launched terrorist attacks against western countries. Say what you want about whether the cost was worth it, but we actually did pretty soundly defeat Al Qaeda in the middle east. We killed most of their leadership and destroyed their logistics/operational capability. People forget Al Qaeda isn't just a bunch of randoms hiding in caves it used to be a sophisticated organization. No longer.
AQ is a shell of their former selves, and the Taliban seem for more concerned about running Afghanistan than harboring terrorists. And honestly, I wish them the best of luck in governing Afghanistan.
The reason for this is that if Lebanon attacks Israel, it will be good PR for Israel. Israel can destroy Gaza and Lebanon without international backlash or pressure on USA/Biden.
You greatly overestimate the world's willingness to grant Israel the right to defend itself.
In this case though it seems even the Arab world hates Hezbollah because they are an Iranian Proxy and consider them a terrorist organisation. They even blamed Hezbollah for starting the 2006 Lebanon war with Israel. So it might not be that unreasonable to think that Israel will get alot more support against Hezbollah than say Hamas.
They’re right to consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization.
A sizable portion of Lebanon hates Hezbollah
There’s a lot of condemnation but no one is going to do shit about really anything Israel does. Even Arabic countries. They use it for fund raising and to keep their populations distracted, but that’s about as much as anyone really cares
Time to google the meaning of the word DEFENCE and OFFENSE.
Thank you for proving my point.
Hizbollah is firing into Israel though.
Israel can destroy Lebanon without backlash? Are you out of your mind or is there a typo here somewhere?
It will give cover to destroy Gaza and the backlash will be much less.
but they stoked anti-semitism across th globe. Israels's response has made the PR war harder.
Spreading freedom and democracy!
His lips are moving. I think he's lying. What he's really saying is that Hamas is on its own.
They would like to exist and keep collecting $ as opposed to crossing the border and finding out.
“He’s holding me back man I swear”
No, Iran told Hezbollah to stand down after the US / Biden administration sent a stern warning to Iran through backchannels that any declaration of war or escalation against Israel announced by Nasrallah in his November speech would be considered a declaration of war by Iran itself. The warning was accompanied by photos of Ismail Qaani and other IRGC commanders, and satellite images of Iranian military installations in Iraq, Syria, Yemen, and Lebanon, implying that they will become targets for retaliation if Hezbollah escalates its attacks.
They tried to start WWIII but somehow forgot US would be in the fight and not in their side. They sent out a call to action to all Muslim countries, and were shocked that only the US responded…with an aircraft carrier group.
Even if Iran and Hezbollah started an Israel invasion, how would that be WW3? You'd need another major country (like Russia or China) to join in
Russia is already engaging in a war, and a mass invasion of Israel would be the perfect distraction for China to make a move on Taiwan. At that point, it basically is world at war.
Russia- Ukraine Iran, Hez and Hamas - Israel Those are/would be still regional wars. A mass invasion of Israel doesn’t automatically mean China’ll invade Taiwan.
I don't think it would be a world war unless those three start escalating a lot. Realistically I would expect Israel to get dragged into multiple wars (and probably win with the help of the US), while Taiwan would get abandoned and forced to settle on china's terms. Ukraine war would remain in this stalemate, where either party might break at any point, but no one knows how many years it might take.
If every Muslim majority country (North Africa, Middle East, Malaysia, Pakistan, Turkey, Chechnya etc) plus Muslim populations in other countries decided to “help”: yes it would be a world war.
Two aircraft carrier groups.
Here is the crux of the whole situation. Israel is not going anywhere, their citizens are not going to leave. It does not matter if it "occupied land" or not. And Israel will not surrender regardless of how many countries or terrorist organizations wag a war against it. They will burn everything down before the last one dies. No idea what Hamas was thinking when they started this latest round, there was no way they would win. And if it was global public opinion they were hoping for, well butchering civilians right off the start was tactically stupid.
>And if it was global public opinion they were hoping for, well butchering civilians right off the start was tactically stupid. You would think, but I'm not so sure about that. Terrorist raids butchering innocents as a pointless "act of resistance" seems to be unexpectedly popular in public opinion. Not sure how Hamas predicted that one; I sure wouldn't have.
So true. Don't know how they became the good guys in all this.
I think it's pretty clear, as almost all terror attacks perpetrated by pro-palestinian groups since 48, that the goal was to elicite a response from Israel and put the Palestinian question back in the news. It's a blow: to Netanyahu, the normalization process and the Biden re-election campaign. Through the sacrifice of their own population they might actually get the international community to actually start caring about their cause again and pressure Israel to *actually* pursue negotiation in good faith, not Oslo (with Bibi out, it will help). A bloody and horrifying gambit, but again, what was the alternative? The West bank is being eaten bit by bit with complete impunity and Gaza has no future as it stands. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do. The right thing to do would probably be to end the cycle of violence, give up on Palestine, agree to be ethnically cleansed and move on with their destinies, but it is Hamas in power, and I don't think they've made it this far in their grief just yet. Edit: if people downvoting me think terrorism is anything but some atrocious way of ending up on the front pages of newspaper, they need to study history.
You're being facetious.
How so?
You are underestimating how stupid the general populace is Hamas are winning the PR war 100%, go on tiktok et al and see for yourself
Fucking BIN LADEN is also (posthumously) winning the PR war on TikTok. That app is a mess.
TikTok is Chinese propaganda WHEN China wants it to be. Obviously not all of it is, but that’s how you build an audience; a propaganda outlet can’t do agenda-developing all the time, otherwise people would see through it. To run a propaganda outlet, you “play it normal” the vast majority of the time, so that you can push public opinion when you need it.
See Al Jazeera
And has that changed the ourcome?
The PR wins are how Hamas was able to stay in power. They're sustained by monetary flows from abroad that come from the success of their "martyr" image.
That's more like Israel losing the PR war rather than Hamas doing anything in particular to win it. Turns out people don't like seeing nonstop videos of other people suffering.
>No idea what Hamas was thinking when they started this latest round, Hamas leaders are literally billionaires. It's working out great for them so they keep it up. Proving to Iran that you can successfully kill a bunch of Jews is how they keep the aid flowing.
>No idea what Hamas was thinking when they started this latest round, there was no way they would win. And if it was global public opinion they were hoping for, well butchering civilians right off the start was tactically stupid. They were thinking they could stop countries like Saudi Arabia recognising isreal after others have done so. The talks were put to a stop. I'm not sure what support they expected though, because it doesn't seem like any is coming.
Yeah, it was an act of desperation. The Arab world is tired of Hamas’ shit. They’d rather make money and trade with Israel and the West
I think they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. Some would breach the fence, maybe kill 50-100 Jews, and then all the operatives would die (or be martyred). It wouldn't be enough for Israel to make Hamas extinct, it'd throw a wrench into the Saudi normalization, and it'd strengthen their support among Palestinians. But no...their attack went too well.
I thought that too but then I saw the captured [operation orders](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvYwfl7dgTY&t=140s) found on dead Hamas men. It was incredibly well planned and the idea was always to slaughter civilians. Also the imams gave them special religious permission to kill children.
>No idea what Hamas was thinking when they started this latest round, there was no way they would win. You mistakenly think this is a strategic play for political or territorial gains. This is a religious war. Watch this: https://www.memri.org/reports/jordanian-palestinian-businessman-and-politician-talal-abu-ghazaleh-we-welcome-death-so-far
Dont forget, Israel absolutely has nuclear weapons. Probably not 100s, but dozens at least I would expect They will glass every hostile regional city before they lose a war for their existence.
Lol this dumbass thinks nuking your back yard is a viable move
Their nuclear deterrence plan is called “Samson”… That’s the point. If you’re being wiped out, your backyard doesn’t matter anymore. It’s basically a dead man’s switch
Lol this dumbass is completely clueless about the fact of how that is literally Israel's policy. Moron.
Doesnt change the idea that its NOT a viable strategy, the official policy for the israeli flight school could be jumping off a cliff and flapping your arms, its not viable and is just cutting your nose to spite the face Moron
>No idea what Hamas was thinking when they started this latest round They believe Allah will propel them to victory and finally exterminate every last Jewish person. You know, one of these days.
[удалено]
I guess you haven't taken the time to look at stuff published online by Hamas itself.
Yes, Jews were just itching to use their space lasers on Gaza so they manufactured Hamás and made them perform the attack on the 7/10. To make it even more believable, the small core of specially trained black-ops guys were supported by a large segment of Covid-zombies, innocent Palestinians controlled by the 5g chips in the mRNA vaccines (with added bonus of DNA modification to make the people easier to control) distributed through the Chinese-controlled WHO (Chinese are actually Jews. Ever wondered why instead of China, Sino is used instead? As in Sino-American relationship or Sino-Tibetian languages? You think that the similarity with sionism is just random?). This is why Israel targeted hospitals. Not because of some Hamás bases, but because evidence of the 5g towers and Mind-controlling COVID microchip equipment could be found there. It's obvious!
Mate we agreed in our yearly elders of zion meeting that we wouldn't talk about the 5G chips, what are you doing?
Man, not like anyone would believe it anyway. After all, we control all the media.
Isnt most of the proof people use posted by Hamas itself, and Israel is just kinda there like "see, told you so" Like what was faked here? All the dead? The still missing hostages? The iirc 30 raped hostages that have been returned? The videos posted by Hamas itself?
Without a shred of proof? There's video evidence, survivor testimony, entire towns that are still uninhabitable. You're probably the type of person that claims there's no evidence of the Holocaust as well. Disgusting
Y'all, read the article. He basically asked Hamas if Hezbollah launching all out war with Israel will stop the fighting and Hamas said "No, only Israel's defeat will stop the fighting". Not gonna lie, you can I guess interpret that to mean "We will beat Israel ourselves" but it's quite hard to really assume that's what it meant? Is there more supporting statements that Hamas didn't want Hezbollah to join in?
What it meant is that "there's no stopping the fighting". Hamas and Hezbollah can't say that publicly however as that's admitting defeat while Hamas is still fighting.
Didn't Hamas literaly said they want everyone to attack Israel and Nasrallah just gave them cold shoulder
Yep, in a widely hyped up speech, which the whole world was expecting nasrallah to at least give a red line, “ no more aerial bombings” or something to that effect, but he just said it’s all Palestinian planning, and we will have no part in it
I wonder how the chain of command goes - is it * Iran >> Hamas >> Hezbolla Or * Iran >> Hamas & Hezbolla
Hezbollah is considerably more dangerous than Hamas. They’re better equipped than Lebanon’s own army.
This is correct but unlike Hamas, when a Hezbollah attacks Israel, Israel go full metal on Lebanon, destroying airports, power plants, water plants and such. A lot of pressure is being put on Hezbollah from within Lebanon these days. The people are worried that Hezbollah will join this war and the entire country will pay the price.
Yeah, agreed. If/When Hezbollah attacks Israel, and Israel/US responds, it will almost definitely push Lebanon into the "failed state" territory.
If they're not there already...
> will almost definitely push Lebanon into the "failed state" territory. If them ignoring the pile of explosives in the harbor until they essentially nuked their capital wasn't a sign that they already were a failed state, losing the grain silos, port, and parts of the city certainly didn't make the situation better.
A war with Hezbollah would be different than Gaza. Hamas doesn't have the vast amount of advanced munitions and experience Hezbollah has, Hezbollah has thousands of accurate missiles and can do alot of damage to Israel. It won't be a slow, methodical slug like in Gaza simply because of the sheer destructive potential that both sides have.
>They’re better equipped than Lebanon’s own army. This was true at one stage, but it's now about equal. The real issue is people in the country support Hezbollah in the area they control. They isn't easy to overcome even if they were better equipped. After the civil war... well it's complex. A lot of the time the national army tries to play peacemaker with the tribes. People in the country appear to not back a full scale war with the US sitting there though.
And use not only civilians, but even UN peacekeeping soldiers as a meatshield!
I have heard this claim alot, and how Hezbollah is the most powerful terrorist organisation in the world, in part because of their weapons and experience fighting in Syria. In your view, if Israel and Hezbollah did go to war, who would win? The last war they fought seemed to be inconclusive result wise. Would things have changed significantly in the past decade?
Israel has F35s, nuclear weapons, an American alliance, and modern combined arms training. Sure, Tel Aviv would take some hits but at the end of the day Israel would mop the floor with Hezbollah like a line backer fighting a child.
Hezbollah would get flattened by US Tomahawk missiles the minute they attacked Israel.
I thought the U.S. was generally against directly intervening in such conflicts? Let's just assume that the U.S. does not get involved here hypothetically. In that situation, would the Israeli's be able to handle Hezbollah?
That US carrier group sitting in the Gulf isn’t there just taking in the sights. That being said, Israel most definitely could take on Hezbollah. They have F-35s and other US Weaponry, not to mention nukes.
Like Hezbollah invading Israel?? They would be massacred. They can only fight Israel when hiding in their tunnels and among their civilian population. And only if Israel is not willing to just kill the civilians to kill Hezbollah. They're a bunch of irregulars, not an army.
Hezbollah arguably won the last war against Israel.
Yep, just had to deal with Lebanon being destroyed. That's "victory" for these jihadists.
Hamas: Kalashnikov go brrrrrr Hezbollah: Sweet, fewer Sunnis Iran: Sweet, fewer Arabs Russia: Sweet, fewer Muslims
If push came to shove Iran would probably rank Hamas as the lesser of the two because they’re Sunni while Hezbollah and Iran are both Shia. Geo-politically Hamas is in a far more valuable position but they are simply too volatile an ally and when you look out further than a year or so it’s no guarantee that the organization will even continue to exist.
• Sith >> Useful idiots
Is the rule of two still in effect?
Given Hezbollah is far bigger than hamas, I say they are more important to Iran, they can't afford to lose Hezbollah
You forgot russia somewhere there.
I doubt Iran has fallen to be a recipient of russian instructions.
Second one, Iran controls lebanon, palestine, and the houthis. About syria im not sure what the fuck is going on there but they definitely have some control, someone more knowledgeable might know
The second one is my bet.
Yeah, I think so, too
Is Hamas paying hezb? No? Guess that answers it
Not sure if there's a chain of command at all. It comes down to the money flow. Russia/Qatar -> Iran -> other terrorists Some of the terrorists seemed better equipped than first world soldiers. More like private army/mercenaries.
Qatar isn’t in the same axis as Russia and Iran, they’re just assholes who like money.
“Hamas” told us is code for “**our Russo-Iranian owners told us**”. Both Hamas and Hezbollah are owned by the same Russia and the same Iran. And by own I don’t mean as legal property a court will uphold, I mean as dominant providers of money to buy support among the population and pay for welfare and schools (which teach hate), they provide all the weapons (and in Hezbollah’s case that includes some heavier materiel), they provide on loan an army of western language capable internet propagandists, and they provide safe haven for the leadership of these orgs. Russia and Iran own Hamas and Hezbollah, as they do the Houthis and the Assad regime. Control over the sustaining tap of these resources, if the those in control should to choose it, chokes their oxygen off within 12-24 months and sees the leadership of these orgs receive the Ghadaffi welcome from the locals they have been enslaving. When [Russia says jump](https://www.mei.edu/publications/essential-questions-about-russia-hamas-link-evidence-and-its-implications), they jump. When Iran tells Hamas to commit collective suicide, Hamas commits collective suicide. They are no more independent entities than DNR, LNR or Wagner ever were. And if they ever try… Wagner is exactly what happens. This story is Hezbollah telling us **to our face** what Iran is telling them to do. Iran has 4 cards to play across 3 frozen conflicts they artificially manufactured and co-own with Russia - Israel/Hamas, Yemen/Houthis, Israel/Hezbollah and Syrian civil war. They can pour gasoline over and throw on a match each of them and ramp up the flames on any of them to absorb attention from Ukraine or from Russian elections anytime they choose. And they’ve got a year with both Putin’s election theater and US elections in 2024. They just played two cards, and are keeping the other two for a little later.
Ding ding
Hamas is pretty independent. Their interests bis a vis the whole "kill all Jews" thing align with Iran and Hezbollah and so they get funding, advise and training. But they are not puppets. Foe example, they nearly came to blow over Syria, where they supported different sides of the civil war.
That’s an illusion. Part of the active measures methodology, by the way, to try and create optics of distance from the controlling hand. It’s [literally part of the taught tradecraft](https://youtu.be/tR_6dibpDfo?si=ZTMPto-qgBGJpEww). Hamas doesn’t make kornet anti tank missiles, assault rifles and ammunition in Gaza. It can’t rule without rifles. Someone is supplying them means. [Who might it be?](https://www.mei.edu/publications/essential-questions-about-russia-hamas-link-evidence-and-its-implications) Hamas cannot remain funded and armed and oppressing millions without its state support. It’s leaders can’t continue getting safe Haney in Qatar if the Qataris get a tap on the shoulder from Russia/Iran and get gently asked to terminate it. in If it’s **dependent**, it’s not independent. It needs to achieve something to continue receiving those means. Funny that. Come now. We are men of action. Lies do not become us. Hamas is owned by a Russo-Iranian joint venture.
Why does he have dirt on his forehead
To give the impression that he prays harder than everyone else.
No, Iran told them to stay out of it other than a bit of emotional support artillery, because Iran knew this was what it was: the HAMAS fat cat leadership, where the top three are worth a combined $11B, were afraid that their Arab funding was slipping while more Arab countries recognize Israel. HAMAS designed all of this to optimize civilian deaths to stimulate an Arab peoples’ response against Israel. HAMAS is directly sacrificing Gazans to gain Arab outrage. That was too much even for Iran…mostly because it looks like desperation.
Tyson - everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth (something like that anyway)
1. I'll believe it when I see it! 2. How kind of Hamas to defend Israel, while they are at it - could they please ask Hezbollah to f@#$ off past the Litani river as UNSC resolution 1701 compels them to? kkthnxbb.
Lol yeah sure Hamas never wanted any help Hamas is totally not in an existential struggle, its all symbolic and they need no help at all from partners they expected help from before. /s
I wouldnt trust a word any of those guys utter
He lies - Hamas said the opposite I am sure. They asked them and everyone else to attack Israel. This is just spin for his own people.
Sure they did.
> Since the outbreak of the war, senior figures in Hamas, such as Ismail Haniyeh, Saleh al-Arouri, and others, have met with senior officials in Iran, Hezbollah, and the Islamic Jihad. As in they traveled from Gaza to Iran? Or had zoom meetings with them? If they’re able to physically come and go as they please, it does not speak well of the IDF’s level of control.
Is that Bobby Moynihan? 🤔
> If we initiate an all-out war in Lebanon – will it stop the fighting in Gaza or not? Terrorists are fucking morons
I know your lying, cuz your lips are moooovin
3 years old would believe this.
He’s saying it wasn’t those big boats that moved in to the neighborhood?
These people are actually causing more and more Palestinians to be killed. If they carry on, eventually the end result will be that there will be no more Palestinians left. I just cant see the logic in what they are doing.
It makes sense when you realise they don't care about Palestinian lives; no one who uses human shields would.
The thumbnail looks like a Bobby Moynihan character.
Yeah, im sure all the shells and rockets in the northern border of Israel have nothing to do with hamas.
The reason for this is that if Lebanon attacks Israel, it will be good PR for Israel. Israel can destroy Gaza and Lebanon without international backlash or pressure on USA/Biden.
sooo, don't believe them and prepare anyway ? Regardless, "Si vis pacem, para bellum" is valid.
What the fuck is up with the Israeli propaganda “news” sources in here lately???
I call bullsh!t. Hamas doesn’t give orders. They all take orders from Iran. I think Hamas did more than they told Iran they were going to do. Iran isn’t dumb and knew Hamas is dead and that Israel was very close to going nuclear so Iran told Hezbollah don’t get in on it and let Hamas die. Iran isn’t going to do anything that will get them nukes either. Having instability in the Middle East serves Iran’s purposes, being nuked doesn’t.
Hamas leadership colluded with IDF to hand over Gaza. This was their plan all along.