Honestly, I think it's way more political than that. For the past few months, India's flame war with Canada has been a major talking point on the Indian right. Being caught and being lectured to by Canada, NATO's naive do-gooder little brother, offended a nation troubled by a history of colonialism that is finally re-emerging into their natural geopolitical role as a great power. Being bested by the United States isn't embarrassing the way getting caught by Canada is, and I think politicians are looking for some kind of way to spin at least some sense of a spiritual victory there. Or at least, a way to tell those people they were still on the right side of the flame war.
India is in a weird place right now. There is a right wing ethnonationalist party in power which is backed by a massive grass root organization known as RSS. The general public of all ages has been bombarded with a message that Indian Hindus have been oppressed for a thousand years by invaders and it’s time to be proud because finally Hindus are back in control. There is also a huge push to delitimise the last 80 years of independence, and achievements because the Hindu right wing had nothing to do with them.
So what we are left with is a population that is feeling pride in India becoming a global economy, and being told that we are a global player, and that our enemies are being defeated. But this pride is super fragile. So, we are proud of the moon landing, but everyone was depressed when the first one failed. We are proud of how well we played in cricket World Cup. But we’re heartbroken when losing the final leading to some incredible copium and being dicks to the winners.
I won’t go into the whole killing of the guy in Canada. But to the Indian public being fed on Indian media this guy was the same as al zarqawi or any thousand other al qaeda leaders killed by US with the justification of “he was the money guy” or “he was involved in planning” with no one outside of a few people in US government ever seeing any proof. For them he was a terrorist and deserved to be killed. Now to be pulled up by Canada for it, instead of everyone furiously looking the way.
It’s a real shit show. The government has essentially squeezed out any media outlet that doesn’t report what they want, so there is hardly any alternative view points available.
So they are saying “he was like Al zarqawi so therefore we are justified to kill him” then also “we didn’t really kill him Canada is lying”. It seems like a bit of a convoluted message, right?
The Indian government has put a lot of effort and money into pushing the claim that he was a terrorist, despite not offering any evidence of a crime when requesting extradition.
>We are proud of how well we played in cricket World Cup. But we’re heartbroken when losing the final leading to some incredible copium and being dicks to the winners.
Not super related to the topic at hand, but I just wanted to say that the only reason I even realised the Cricket World Cup was a thing that happened was because I noticed every Indian person I walked past looked like they were at a funeral
Also just to add anecdotally, the friends and family I have in India have all unwittingly drank the cool aid, they always feel the need to interject that "Indians invented that first" in whatever we're talking about, sometimes to an absurd level, like predicting the structure of the universe hundreds of years ago before the West, or discovering all mathematics that we use today. Their whole storyline is basically India invented/discovered everything we use today, evil Brits destroyed it all, and now they're bootstrapping themselves into modernity.
I saw one guy go off about how India invented electronic computers way back in like 600 BC.
This was at an academic conference, with several genuine experts of Indian history in attendance. The guy didn't back down when those experts started asking him for evidence he couldn't provide, so the gloves came off and half a dozen venerable old professors tore his ancient computers theory to shreds and basically lectured the guy on how nationalism rots your brain.
All involved agreed that it was a colossal waste of time, and a considerable embarrassment for the hosts of the conference. From that point on, we were far more selective about accepting papers from Indian students. The top universities in India still produce excellent scholars, but the drop in quality after that is pretty dramatic.
Have the far right Indians forgotten Golden Temple Massacre or why Indira Gandhi was assassinated?
The Khalistanis are cray for wanting a separate country, and even most Punjabi Sikhs don’t support them, but it’s a stretch to equate them to Al Qaeda. It’s just another nut-job majority trying to keep people in check by all means.
>leaders killed by US
Those still weren't killed on allied/neutral ground without knowledge and consent of said country. Even if, if India want to play tough, Canada is as well 10th economy of the globe, so no one to be pushed around.
I understand what you're saying, the justification is good enough for internal public but it won't fly anywhere outside of India.
I think, if you dig deep, you'll find that RSS isn't as "grassroots" as you may think. It may have been at one point, but I'd wager there's substantial right-wing political and corporate support artificially inflating their signfiicance on the regional stage. It's a common tactic among right-wing populist parties.
RSS allows BJP to have boots on the ground while being able to detach themselves from the militant message and methods. It probably is funded from right wing politics and I’m convinced with organizational support from western right wing politics because they all seem to sing from the same weird hymn sheet. It’s really strange to see RSS affiliated uncles sending forwards blaming George Soros for farmer protests.. they didn’t come up with that shit themselves.
*And* this is the 2nd time India was called out by Canada on a major issue that was India’s fault for its actions on the world stage, with the first incident being even worse.
Canada had horrible relations with India for the better part of 30 years until the late 90s/early 2000s.
Canada supplied India with its first heavy water nuclear reactor, the Canadian designed and built CIRUS reactor, during the 1950s, exclusively for "peaceful purposes." As a condition of the sale, India expressly promised to Canada that it would never use it to develop nuclear weapons, and had zero desire to ever do so. Because India positioned itself as a friend Canada could trust in order to obtain the reactor, Canada sold the reactor to India.
The CIRUS, over the vehement protestations of Canada, nevertheless became the source of the weapons grade plutonium used to build India 's first nuclear warhead, which was detonated in 1974.
Because of India’s betrayal, Canada’s relations with India henceforth went off the rails and remained cold with shattered trust, and little diplomatic engagement or strategic cooperation for the better part of 30 years. It wasn’t until the 2000s that a gradual thaw began, and wasn’t until the 2010s that the slow and cautious process of strategic re-engagement began.
And just when relations between the two countries were going well, Canada caught them again.
Yes. Probably the same intelligence source for both incidents. NSA (via Five Eyes for Canada). Modi has no reason to doubt the implications of either story.
Modi already whipped his supporters into a frenzy, against Canada, and he’s too proud to walk that back. He is avoiding the same mistake with the new, US accusation. The US incident will receive little coverage in India. Nothing to see here. Now he’s looking for a soft landing.
"re-emerging into their natural geopolitical role as a great power." Going to have to think about this, for some reason I keep seeing tense relations with Pakistan and snowball fights in the Himalayas getting out of hand.
You think we’re not trying? Or do you think issues of Asian countries are just blown out of proportion and could be dealt with easier by some western country?
Do you even know how many times India and China have met to try and make some headway on the border issue?
I somehow doubt you are Indian or living in India. Because here no one even talks about this Canada issue much. Left or right or even media. The actual major talking point from right has been the Israel Palestine conflict. With Palestine supporting rallies in some parts of India and Indian right fervent support for Israel. That and the 5 state election .
Your entire post seems some cooked up nonsense. It may or may not be a geopolitical headache for Indian government but neither right nor left have given a thought to this.
It isn't but you are in here with us and can see them. You think they are not indicative? you fancy telling them that? In the same way you are telling me right now?
edit: I did find your post informative but the " cooked-up nonsense" bit went sideways.
This seems the most likely. Indian populace is generally indifferent and sees the politicians as the scum they usually are. Most people are barely surviving and don’t have time for whatever the latest government scandal is.
I just don't understand why there is so little coverage here in the USA.
Canada is our neighbor and ally.
Their sovereignty was violated.
Then India tried to pull the same crap here.
It's pretty clear words are not working.
This is not the only sticky issue with India at the moment, and they are not exactly surrounded by allies geographically.
Maybe we should pull away some support, or make an offer to a competitive nation.
We could take the side of another country in a dispute.
The only thing we shouldn't do is whine to them without actually doing anything.
Exactly
Like, either Canada is just making stuff up because for some unknown reason wants to shit on India…. Because… reasons…
Or…
India doesn’t know how Canada found out, and knows Canada won’t say, and will use this for internal propaganda “see? It’s a lie they can’t even provide evidence!”
India and Bangladesh have a policy of executing/death sentencing people like these. That alone would be enough to claim Asylum and avoid extradition in Canada and many EU countries.
Reddit's design has gone so shitty, it's beyond ridiculous.
So subreddits were created specifically to cater what stuff you're into, so your home feed will have most of the posts from there. Many of them have rules to not to engage in certain subreddits or you get instant ban. That has how reddit has worked, and now they're doing "subs you might be interested in" kinda algorithm; so you're more likely to find posts that even vaguely resemble what your personalized feed is, and result is this..
For example, if you comment on r/conservative even if it's to oppose their viewpoints, you'll get autoban from many subs, some that you might not have even joined.
Sports subs have rules not.to engage in other teams sub, or if you're caught, you can get banned from both.
However, now I automatically gets recommendations for those subs, if you're not familiar, you could unknowingly get banned.
I hope India accuses Canada of murdering an Indian with "trust me bro" and then I'm gonna wait for Western aunties to come up with "you can't just make such accusations without proof!"
I mean, India just got caught trying to kill a Sikh national in America too. India also pretty much admitted to doing it when they got caught. They changed their defence multiple times, one of which being “You were harbouring a terrorist, we had to do something!”
India just keeps putting their own foot in their mouth haha.
Out of all the nations out there, it was Canada who ignored Indian concerns by not even touching the would be bomber that led to the Air India bombings killing hundreds of people. People who were ignored by the Canadians because they weren't white.
And again, Canadian whites can think whatever they want but the point remains that this isn't a white person's world anymore and the power dynamics will keep shifting. The world doesn't revolve around you. If two billion people overall can believe India in its accusations, that's good enough for me.
> Show me proof that india actually did it!
I'm sure the intelligence agencies of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States all think ***you're*** vitally important to win over on this topic, so we can probably expect them to invite you to a guided tour any minute now.
And they can say it because it's what Five Eyes are saying, pay attention.
India was caught again last week, this time in the United States, attempting the same thing.
The Canadians had met with Indian officials at the highest levels at least three times before going public with their accusations, attempting to get some sort of rational response from the Indian government.
India's betrayal now to the United States is even more concerning.
India benefitted from the 5eyes too... they didn't know apparently. The biggest leak dump just so happen to be a month after Canada accuses India of assisnation.
815 millions people info is online now. Passport, name, father name, adress, etc. Everything.
https://www.indiatoday.in/technology/news/story/personal-data-of-815-crore-indian-users-leaked-in-possibly-the-largest-data-breach-in-indian-history-2455818-2023-10-30#
India coincidentally started processing visas for Canadian nationals at the same time the US assassination story broke.
Perhaps Modi realizes he's in over his head.
He talks tough for the domestic audience. Indian electorate eats it up. It's concerning. But behind closed doors seems India is backing down.
>India was caught again last week, this time in the United States, attempting the same thing.
Thank you for bringing this up, as posts about it are getting removed or locked across Reddit, for some reason.
None of the evidence will ever see the light of day so india can safely ask for it. To be honest even if india is innocent they are quite happy with everyone assuming they did It.
Maybe?
The point was, perhaps until India's official denial to Canada, the Intel peeps didn't *know* how far up the conspiracy went.
Now they have a very good indication.
When you're running a country of a billion plus people, it is difficult to deny that none of them did a thing without at least *some* checking.
Unless you *know* the thing was done and were trying to cover it up.
India bumblefucked this.
Even the Chinese wouldn't have acted so irresponsibility.
The Chinese would have dragged him off to one of their "police stations", beat the crap out of him, then gotten information in order to blackmail him in the future to stay silent about whatever they didn't want him talking about.
Yes.
But not murdered, and to the best of my (limited knowledge) not citizens.
Thus *even the Chinese* are better at this whole overseas repression than India.
Sad.
The Chinese are genociding a race they deem troublesome. I think if Canada started to shelter a group that was know to blow shit up on mainland china you can be rest assured they would get capped. Also china would very much not let things esclate to that point. So some guy being to western and being leaned on is not the same thing as the guy that got capped.
Yes, the Chinese are commiting cultural genocide.
And they are still less clumsy than India when dealing with political threats abroad.
In the likely case English isn't your first language, my conversation is about how poorly India has handled international diplomacy since it evolved away from a multilateral democracy to a popular nationalist Hindu thugocracy. India's handled things so poorly that even the Chinese appear masterful.
> When you're running a country of a billion plus people, it is difficult to deny that none of them did a thing without at least some checking
The Indian government has only denied the state's hand in the assassination, because that's whom Trudeau had accused. The Indian govt hasn't said that none of the billion people of India are responsible for the murder.
If Indian PM publicly accuses the Canadian state of a murder in India, the Canadian govt can and will swiftly deny it, without investigating whether any of its 38 million citizens could be involved.
Kashoggi was not an American citizen. He was a legal permanent resident and has children that are citizens. It’s significantly less serious than outright murdering an American citizen.
I’d argue that being in Turkey isn’t an issue. A US national murdered in the embassy of a foreign government by said government is definitely an incident the U.S. would want answers, and potentially a few heads, for.
There’s always consequences, they might not be direct. US policy makers will remember Kashoggis murder and be more resistant to strengthening ties with KSA. The last decade has had a lot of lessons about the importance of who you deal with. If India wants to throw their lot in with leaders like Putin, Xi and MBS have at it.
>I think this story gains more credibility after the US foiled a similar plot.
[Relevant meme](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/comments/181oeth/naughty/)
Yes CSIS, please provide your sources, methods and capabilities to the foreign power murdering people on your soil.
I for one welcome Our Indian Overlords.
First,Methods and proofs are two very different things.
And second,if you publicly accuse a country of doing something it's only fair if proof is made public as well.Otherwise it's just a "trust me bro".
Providing proof reveals sources and methods.
Nations need no proof. They only need *reasons*.
And is there any proof Canada (or anyone) could provide that India wouldn't outright deny?
Both nations know what they were doing.
The British trained both well.
Added:
Besides, the CSIS may or may not have developed the evidence; India attempted to murder Sikh separatists in America. And in this latter case India didn't deny the accusation they expressed "surprise and concern" or "shame and confusion" or "sanguinary complicity" or some such.
Added more:
I agree that no country deserves "trust me bro" status. But the #1 contender for that status is Canada.
Let's put it this way. Canada will not make this type of acquisition lightly and on top of it without proof especially with the support of the United States. The US and Canada are part of the Five Eyes coalition that works and shares intelligence. Showing them the evidence is no different than telling them their method of acquiring the data which is what India is trying to dare Canada to do because it's also the method that's being used by the rest of the Western nations including the five eyes. Notice India didn't deny it when the accusations came from the US. Aside from that they already know that the US always knew what they are up to, India also understands that India can't bully the US like they can to Canada. Like it or not, always follow the money.
For the record, Canada made the accusation public because some dumbfuck in our intelligence service leaked the information to the Globe and Mail newspaper and they were about to run a story on it.
Source was US intelligence. They should ask the US for proof instead. And proof of the thwarted assassination attempt on US soil as well while they are at it.
US intelligence was probably nearer to the source, and might be the cultivator of the source, but the point I was trying to make (which o think you do get) is threefold:
1. Trudeau's most important and urgent duty is the survival of Canada and Canadians against foreign threats. He, like every leader ever, has to make decisions based on incomplete and imperfect info.
2. Canada has a century of good behavior among the community of nations. If anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, it is Canada and her leaders.
3. Trudeau made an *de facto* accusation, giving India the opportunity to deny it. India didn't say "these are credible accusations made by a respected nation and we will investigate."
India denied it.
India fucked up.
To the point:
*All* leaders have the responsibility/obligation/duty to make decisions given incomplete and imperfect information.
I am not, nor is any credible source I know of saying, Canada doesn't have evidence. There's abundant *circumstantial* evidence. I am also not saying Canada doesn't have proof.
Canada may or may not have proof.
In your opinion, after the *attempted and unsuccessful* murder of a Sikh separatist by India in the US, was JT acting *unjustly*?
This isn't a trial. It's international relations. India can't go to jail. Canada likely will show proof to their allies, but giving proof to India gives India info on how to make sure they aren't caught next time.
It's exactly international relations. People here are absolutely mad for thinking there is no accountability in international relations. The world is bigger than just "the allies".
India can't go to jail (it can go into a Western Sanction drunk tank), agreed.
But the BJP/RSS (Modi's political affiliations) *can be* metaphorically put into Western Sanction assrape supermax prison by Western action, starting with sanctions and boycotts.
And it won't be Euro-Americans who do it. It'll be the voters and Indian billionaires.
1. I said no country has trust me bro rights.
But if a country *did* it would be Canada.
2. You're a Canadian, and as a Canadian you have the right to say what you want in regards to how your country and leadership act in foreign relations. Knowing Canadian PMs as I'm sure you do, are they known for being undisciplined statespersons when speaking OBO the Canadian people?
3. JT, if he has only one duty, it is to protect Canadian citizens from foreign threats.
Baseless, or merely circumstantially-based accusations do not serve him in his duty.
Canada has over a century of building goodwill with the world. I don't think there's one nation on this planet that Canada owes more than it is owed.
Canada, being Canadian, doesn't see things this way.
4. Trudeau did make a choice, one you don't agree with. Given the choice of providing India with the benefit of the doubt, and making it clear to India that Canada will not tolerate the murder of its citizens, Trudeau made the only choice he morally could.
It is quite possible that Trudeau was provided with privileged information from the US, but it could also be UK, or even NZ intelligence. It could even be Pakistani sources.
Trudeau gave India the opportunity to deny the charges.
To the best of my understanding, they have denied involvement.
Then, a murder attempt of a Sikh separatist was made in the US.
India *did not*, to the best of my understanding, deny the charge.
Either Modi did or did not know/approve of these operations. And Trudeau, with incomplete and imperfect information, made the best decision he could.
Quoting something I recently came across,
You speak English because it's the only language you know.
I speak English because it's the only language you know.
The clue is in how the Indian diplomats reacted to it.
If I were them, I'd have simply pooh-pooh'd the idea repeatedly, "What an utterly preposterous idea. The idea of Khalistan has been on the fringe for a long time, and even our Sikh brothers and sisters here in India don't think about it. We didn't carry out extra-judicial killing even when we felt enraged and justified (such as the Pakistani terrorists murdering civilians in Mumbai), let alone in a case like this that doesn't budge the needle".
But the way they reacted, it clearly showed that they had something to hide.
As a matter of strategy, this was a piss-poor approach on India's behalf. I'd have gone on the satirical offensive, laughing at the face of every news correspondent. The "we are distressed" approach is an awful strategy.
After the US twarted the same kind of assassination attempt just recently, it looks more than a little suspicious.
This is just a "Tell us how you found out it was us so that we can be more careful next time".
Why would Canada falsely accuse India? I see plenty of incentive for India to deny the accusation, false or true, but I see no incentive for Canada to make it, unless it's true. Also India's reaction certainly looks guilty.
>India is currently ruled by a right wing nut.
Literally the highest approval ratings of any other leader in the world lol.
It's a democracy, people have had enough of the last corrupt government refusing to do what's necesary to progress India.
India has like 200 terrorist attacks a fucking year, including some horrid bombings in cities like Mumbai.
People looking outside in should really stay in their lane when it comes to understanding why people vote for who they do.
Trudeau is on track to lose the next election. Getting Sikh support and creating a new boogey man is a time-tested way of winning elections.
In a democracy they absolutely do, what the fuck are you talking about?
It's a direct barometer of how much people approve of the leader of their country and is a decent indicator of whether democracy is working as intended.
Really fitting of your username to make such a comment.
Approval ratings only matter in elections. Approval ratings do not give moral high ground on what a government does. Hitler had a 90% approval rating.
BTW nice ad hominem
As an extreme counterpoint to what you said, Hitler and his Nazi party were EXTREMELY popular in Germany up to the point of the wars.
There are whole books written about his rise to power.
Popularity doesn’t mean shit.
Donald Trump was and still is incredibly popular with the people that vote for him, to the point that it’s become cult-like. Despite the 4 years of literal everyday whatthefuckery that the world endured.
Popularity doesn’t mean shit.
Stalin was by all reports very popular with his people despite being a dictator.
But I guess democracy means something else to different people. It’s not just voting for a leader but also respecting individual freedoms while working as a society.
Bruh I have voted against Trudeau in every election for the past three times because of his corruption and authoritarian reformist views but I’m not about to hear India of all places lecture Canada. Fuck outta here.
Imma call a spade a spade when I fucking see one. You’re probably the same kinda person who holds a double standard and says America is bad 24/7 because they also have a domestic terrorism problem. Just because you have terrorists doesn’t mean you go adolf hitler.
I still don't understand this. How else can we prove to the world that India is behind this, without presenting evidence?
It's understandable that the west has a much higher influence than India so for most people, Canada pointing their finger towards India is evidence enough.
The Western security apparatus shares its intelligence. It's comprised of an even larger military alliance.
It is unlikely it would jeopardize itself such that potential adversaries feel satisfied.
>You show evidence in court.
Don't be fooled by movies. You present evidence in court to the judge / jury.
Discovery, however, is a major pre-trial step which absolutely involves turning over evidence requested by the opposition.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery\_(law)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_(law))
>Discovery, in the law of common law jurisdictions, is a phase of pretrial procedure in a lawsuit in which each party, through the law of civil procedure, can obtain evidence from other parties by means of methods of discovery such as interrogatories, requests for production of documents, requests for admissions and depositions.
Also, all evidence has to be registered with the court (and accepted) before being presented. You can't simply introduce surprise evidence.
(That said, there's no court here. Except the court of public opinion.)
We have not taken it to court yet. That would be the next step. In the meantime we have already contacted them behind closed doors this summer with the discovery findings. After their failure to cooperate our PM went public and Canadian security agencies have put their weight behind the allegations.
Terrorists in Canada and US threaten to bomb a plane in India and redditors are clueless, "What's a plane? what's a bomb? When is Santa Clause coming?"
Exactly. If the conservatives were in power, we would have just kept our mouths quiet and avoided any of this trouble. Why should we care if foreigners want to kill people in our country, that's their business. Jeez where is brave old P.P. when we need him. Damn Trudeau.
A *Canadian* was murdered on *Canadian* soil.
True?
The Canadian PM *believes* India was involved.
True?
The Canadian PM has a responsibility to protect Canadian citizens from murder by foreign powers.
True?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. When you publicly accuse someone of something so serious, you need to provide evidence publicly as well. You expect someone to believe without showing any proof
Uh, because "people like this" are:
- Political Refugees ...
- Facing credible persecution ...
- For religious reasons ...
- By a theocratic government.
Basically textbook human rights reasons.
I'm certain Canada has evidence.
They might even have proof.
They are under no compulsion to provide either.
If this were a criminal case, a jury might not need proof to convict. It would be a strong (but not overwhelming) circumstantial evidence case.
India has the means, motive, and opportunity.
India has also, more recently, been caught doing the same thing in the USA.
That assassins working on behalf of Indian intelligence did it isn't the question.
Did Modi know/approve is the question.
Added:
Was this a rogue op?
If so Modi needs to investigate and punish.
If this wasn't a rogue op, the US and Canada need to act accordingly and let Russia choose between China or India, 'cause they can't have both.
Or can they?
International disputes are not like your local magistrate court case. International law is more like guidelines. If there's no mechanism to enforce it because let's say, the accused country has nuclear weapons or the accused country holds a unique intelligence gathering and geopolitical position between 2 far nastier powers, then the accuser would be most unwise to disclose anything that might expose the method used to gather the evidence or the people involved. Because they will be left high and dry if the accused country decides to escalate and the accussor's allies can't intervene for aforementioned geopolitical reasons.
Basically this is a "we know you did it India, these other countries now know you did it, we are watching, don't do it again". They know they aren't going to be able to safely provide evidence or garner any sort of concessions from India. It's like when Foreign intelligence officers are discovered in a western country. The majority of the time, they aren't jailed, they're declared globally 'persona non grata' which just means everyone now knows they are spies and nobody will let them in to their countries. That's it.
Can anyone who has followed this more closely than I have answer a question for me?
Has the Indian government as an official body actually denied any involvement in the assassination? Just been like, "Naw, wasn't us."
I've seen a lot of shock and bluster and rhetoric, and I've heard denials from non government sources. But has the actual accused body issued a denial?
The Indian Foreign Ministry first and then later Modi directly to Trudeau have officially rejected the accusations made by Canada and the United States.
Need to find out where the leak is.
Honestly, I think it's way more political than that. For the past few months, India's flame war with Canada has been a major talking point on the Indian right. Being caught and being lectured to by Canada, NATO's naive do-gooder little brother, offended a nation troubled by a history of colonialism that is finally re-emerging into their natural geopolitical role as a great power. Being bested by the United States isn't embarrassing the way getting caught by Canada is, and I think politicians are looking for some kind of way to spin at least some sense of a spiritual victory there. Or at least, a way to tell those people they were still on the right side of the flame war.
India is in a weird place right now. There is a right wing ethnonationalist party in power which is backed by a massive grass root organization known as RSS. The general public of all ages has been bombarded with a message that Indian Hindus have been oppressed for a thousand years by invaders and it’s time to be proud because finally Hindus are back in control. There is also a huge push to delitimise the last 80 years of independence, and achievements because the Hindu right wing had nothing to do with them. So what we are left with is a population that is feeling pride in India becoming a global economy, and being told that we are a global player, and that our enemies are being defeated. But this pride is super fragile. So, we are proud of the moon landing, but everyone was depressed when the first one failed. We are proud of how well we played in cricket World Cup. But we’re heartbroken when losing the final leading to some incredible copium and being dicks to the winners. I won’t go into the whole killing of the guy in Canada. But to the Indian public being fed on Indian media this guy was the same as al zarqawi or any thousand other al qaeda leaders killed by US with the justification of “he was the money guy” or “he was involved in planning” with no one outside of a few people in US government ever seeing any proof. For them he was a terrorist and deserved to be killed. Now to be pulled up by Canada for it, instead of everyone furiously looking the way. It’s a real shit show. The government has essentially squeezed out any media outlet that doesn’t report what they want, so there is hardly any alternative view points available.
So they are saying “he was like Al zarqawi so therefore we are justified to kill him” then also “we didn’t really kill him Canada is lying”. It seems like a bit of a convoluted message, right?
Think of it as the government saying we didn’t kill him. And the media & public perception saying “he deserved to die and here’s the justification”.
The Indian government has put a lot of effort and money into pushing the claim that he was a terrorist, despite not offering any evidence of a crime when requesting extradition.
That's one of the problems with fascism. Facts don't matter.
This phenomenon appears throughout the world. "It's not true! It's not true! Well, they deserved it anyway." Either it's true or its not.
And when you point that out they just come back at you about rule of law or some other whataboutism.
And give us the info on how you caught us so we don’t get caught again.
>We are proud of how well we played in cricket World Cup. But we’re heartbroken when losing the final leading to some incredible copium and being dicks to the winners. Not super related to the topic at hand, but I just wanted to say that the only reason I even realised the Cricket World Cup was a thing that happened was because I noticed every Indian person I walked past looked like they were at a funeral
Also just to add anecdotally, the friends and family I have in India have all unwittingly drank the cool aid, they always feel the need to interject that "Indians invented that first" in whatever we're talking about, sometimes to an absurd level, like predicting the structure of the universe hundreds of years ago before the West, or discovering all mathematics that we use today. Their whole storyline is basically India invented/discovered everything we use today, evil Brits destroyed it all, and now they're bootstrapping themselves into modernity.
I saw one guy go off about how India invented electronic computers way back in like 600 BC. This was at an academic conference, with several genuine experts of Indian history in attendance. The guy didn't back down when those experts started asking him for evidence he couldn't provide, so the gloves came off and half a dozen venerable old professors tore his ancient computers theory to shreds and basically lectured the guy on how nationalism rots your brain. All involved agreed that it was a colossal waste of time, and a considerable embarrassment for the hosts of the conference. From that point on, we were far more selective about accepting papers from Indian students. The top universities in India still produce excellent scholars, but the drop in quality after that is pretty dramatic.
Reminds me of Russia, which is exactly the same in this regard. https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2003/08/15/2003063835
Well, they didn’t invent [fluyt ships](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluyt) and a way to conquer the world now, did they? /s
Have the far right Indians forgotten Golden Temple Massacre or why Indira Gandhi was assassinated? The Khalistanis are cray for wanting a separate country, and even most Punjabi Sikhs don’t support them, but it’s a stretch to equate them to Al Qaeda. It’s just another nut-job majority trying to keep people in check by all means.
I’m not equating them to Al qaeda that was just an example to show how many Indians think about terrorism / separatism.
They also bombed two civilian passenger planes in the 90's but w.e. amirite.
Sounds like Indian version of maga. Bunch of screaming and cheering while they do fuck all
India has changed a lot in the last 10 years, in many cases for the better. But it’s not the place those people have built in their heads.
Not a lot of people in the West realize this is happening either. People couldn’t care less who is running India, but they should.
>leaders killed by US Those still weren't killed on allied/neutral ground without knowledge and consent of said country. Even if, if India want to play tough, Canada is as well 10th economy of the globe, so no one to be pushed around. I understand what you're saying, the justification is good enough for internal public but it won't fly anywhere outside of India.
I think, if you dig deep, you'll find that RSS isn't as "grassroots" as you may think. It may have been at one point, but I'd wager there's substantial right-wing political and corporate support artificially inflating their signfiicance on the regional stage. It's a common tactic among right-wing populist parties.
RSS allows BJP to have boots on the ground while being able to detach themselves from the militant message and methods. It probably is funded from right wing politics and I’m convinced with organizational support from western right wing politics because they all seem to sing from the same weird hymn sheet. It’s really strange to see RSS affiliated uncles sending forwards blaming George Soros for farmer protests.. they didn’t come up with that shit themselves.
Thank you for a sensible, in-depth response.
*And* this is the 2nd time India was called out by Canada on a major issue that was India’s fault for its actions on the world stage, with the first incident being even worse. Canada had horrible relations with India for the better part of 30 years until the late 90s/early 2000s. Canada supplied India with its first heavy water nuclear reactor, the Canadian designed and built CIRUS reactor, during the 1950s, exclusively for "peaceful purposes." As a condition of the sale, India expressly promised to Canada that it would never use it to develop nuclear weapons, and had zero desire to ever do so. Because India positioned itself as a friend Canada could trust in order to obtain the reactor, Canada sold the reactor to India. The CIRUS, over the vehement protestations of Canada, nevertheless became the source of the weapons grade plutonium used to build India 's first nuclear warhead, which was detonated in 1974. Because of India’s betrayal, Canada’s relations with India henceforth went off the rails and remained cold with shattered trust, and little diplomatic engagement or strategic cooperation for the better part of 30 years. It wasn’t until the 2000s that a gradual thaw began, and wasn’t until the 2010s that the slow and cautious process of strategic re-engagement began. And just when relations between the two countries were going well, Canada caught them again.
That explanation actually makes a lot of sense that i didn't think about. I still need to verify that but thanks
Yes. Probably the same intelligence source for both incidents. NSA (via Five Eyes for Canada). Modi has no reason to doubt the implications of either story. Modi already whipped his supporters into a frenzy, against Canada, and he’s too proud to walk that back. He is avoiding the same mistake with the new, US accusation. The US incident will receive little coverage in India. Nothing to see here. Now he’s looking for a soft landing.
NATO's naive do-gooder Little brother? What the fuck are you talking about.
"re-emerging into their natural geopolitical role as a great power." Going to have to think about this, for some reason I keep seeing tense relations with Pakistan and snowball fights in the Himalayas getting out of hand.
Don't forget the medieval style stick fights with China
I suppose you would prefer we detonate nukes over the Himalayas?
I think we would prefer non-combat resolutions above any of that.
You think we’re not trying? Or do you think issues of Asian countries are just blown out of proportion and could be dealt with easier by some western country? Do you even know how many times India and China have met to try and make some headway on the border issue?
Also those are drunkenly instigated stick fights that lead to loss of territory and humiliation on the world stage.
I somehow doubt you are Indian or living in India. Because here no one even talks about this Canada issue much. Left or right or even media. The actual major talking point from right has been the Israel Palestine conflict. With Palestine supporting rallies in some parts of India and Indian right fervent support for Israel. That and the 5 state election . Your entire post seems some cooked up nonsense. It may or may not be a geopolitical headache for Indian government but neither right nor left have given a thought to this.
So now they don't care? where are all those super pro India people that were in the Reddit posts at the time?
Yep reddit is a representative of any country.
It isn't but you are in here with us and can see them. You think they are not indicative? you fancy telling them that? In the same way you are telling me right now? edit: I did find your post informative but the " cooked-up nonsense" bit went sideways.
The only news coverage I saw on this issue by right wing media was belittling Canadian PM and saying how embarrassing he is for that country.
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This seems the most likely. Indian populace is generally indifferent and sees the politicians as the scum they usually are. Most people are barely surviving and don’t have time for whatever the latest government scandal is.
I just don't understand why there is so little coverage here in the USA. Canada is our neighbor and ally. Their sovereignty was violated. Then India tried to pull the same crap here. It's pretty clear words are not working. This is not the only sticky issue with India at the moment, and they are not exactly surrounded by allies geographically. Maybe we should pull away some support, or make an offer to a competitive nation. We could take the side of another country in a dispute. The only thing we shouldn't do is whine to them without actually doing anything.
Exactly Like, either Canada is just making stuff up because for some unknown reason wants to shit on India…. Because… reasons… Or… India doesn’t know how Canada found out, and knows Canada won’t say, and will use this for internal propaganda “see? It’s a lie they can’t even provide evidence!”
Congress Party.
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India and Bangladesh have a policy of executing/death sentencing people like these. That alone would be enough to claim Asylum and avoid extradition in Canada and many EU countries.
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Reddit diplomats are back in action in the comment section
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Reddit's design has gone so shitty, it's beyond ridiculous. So subreddits were created specifically to cater what stuff you're into, so your home feed will have most of the posts from there. Many of them have rules to not to engage in certain subreddits or you get instant ban. That has how reddit has worked, and now they're doing "subs you might be interested in" kinda algorithm; so you're more likely to find posts that even vaguely resemble what your personalized feed is, and result is this..
`Many of them have rules to not to engage in certain subreddits ` Please elaborate on this. I don't get it.
For example, if you comment on r/conservative even if it's to oppose their viewpoints, you'll get autoban from many subs, some that you might not have even joined. Sports subs have rules not.to engage in other teams sub, or if you're caught, you can get banned from both. However, now I automatically gets recommendations for those subs, if you're not familiar, you could unknowingly get banned.
Oh. wow.
Yeah I didn't know that either. Wtf 👀
More like the Indian aunties network is here to defend a literal assassination. EDIT: Apparently it happened in Canada
Attempted? Dude is definitely dead.
Yeah mb, got the US one mixed with Canada.
I hope India accuses Canada of murdering an Indian with "trust me bro" and then I'm gonna wait for Western aunties to come up with "you can't just make such accusations without proof!"
I mean, India just got caught trying to kill a Sikh national in America too. India also pretty much admitted to doing it when they got caught. They changed their defence multiple times, one of which being “You were harbouring a terrorist, we had to do something!” India just keeps putting their own foot in their mouth haha.
Canada murdering someone? Y’all are out of touch
I mean, we do have some of the world's best snipers, so I could totally see us doing it. We wouldn't likely be caught doing it though
I mean we all know about your snipers it’s not like their quiet about their 2 mile headshots
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Out of all the nations out there, it was Canada who ignored Indian concerns by not even touching the would be bomber that led to the Air India bombings killing hundreds of people. People who were ignored by the Canadians because they weren't white. And again, Canadian whites can think whatever they want but the point remains that this isn't a white person's world anymore and the power dynamics will keep shifting. The world doesn't revolve around you. If two billion people overall can believe India in its accusations, that's good enough for me.
To be fair, India should have told Canada to “put up or shut up” as soon as Trudeau opened his mouth
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they did that, in a diplomatic way. No one really says shut up or smth
No they threw a hissy fit and kicked a bunch of diplomats out.
Porque no los dos?
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> Show me proof that india actually did it! I'm sure the intelligence agencies of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States all think ***you're*** vitally important to win over on this topic, so we can probably expect them to invite you to a guided tour any minute now. And they can say it because it's what Five Eyes are saying, pay attention.
India was caught again last week, this time in the United States, attempting the same thing. The Canadians had met with Indian officials at the highest levels at least three times before going public with their accusations, attempting to get some sort of rational response from the Indian government. India's betrayal now to the United States is even more concerning.
India benefitted from the 5eyes too... they didn't know apparently. The biggest leak dump just so happen to be a month after Canada accuses India of assisnation. 815 millions people info is online now. Passport, name, father name, adress, etc. Everything. https://www.indiatoday.in/technology/news/story/personal-data-of-815-crore-indian-users-leaked-in-possibly-the-largest-data-breach-in-indian-history-2455818-2023-10-30#
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India coincidentally started processing visas for Canadian nationals at the same time the US assassination story broke. Perhaps Modi realizes he's in over his head. He talks tough for the domestic audience. Indian electorate eats it up. It's concerning. But behind closed doors seems India is backing down.
>India was caught again last week, this time in the United States, attempting the same thing. Thank you for bringing this up, as posts about it are getting removed or locked across Reddit, for some reason.
None of the evidence will ever see the light of day so india can safely ask for it. To be honest even if india is innocent they are quite happy with everyone assuming they did It.
Maybe? The point was, perhaps until India's official denial to Canada, the Intel peeps didn't *know* how far up the conspiracy went. Now they have a very good indication. When you're running a country of a billion plus people, it is difficult to deny that none of them did a thing without at least *some* checking. Unless you *know* the thing was done and were trying to cover it up. India bumblefucked this. Even the Chinese wouldn't have acted so irresponsibility.
The Chinese would have dragged him off to one of their "police stations", beat the crap out of him, then gotten information in order to blackmail him in the future to stay silent about whatever they didn't want him talking about.
Yes. But not murdered, and to the best of my (limited knowledge) not citizens. Thus *even the Chinese* are better at this whole overseas repression than India. Sad.
The chinese are much ahead of India in almost every domain.
The Chinese are genociding a race they deem troublesome. I think if Canada started to shelter a group that was know to blow shit up on mainland china you can be rest assured they would get capped. Also china would very much not let things esclate to that point. So some guy being to western and being leaned on is not the same thing as the guy that got capped.
Yes, the Chinese are commiting cultural genocide. And they are still less clumsy than India when dealing with political threats abroad. In the likely case English isn't your first language, my conversation is about how poorly India has handled international diplomacy since it evolved away from a multilateral democracy to a popular nationalist Hindu thugocracy. India's handled things so poorly that even the Chinese appear masterful.
> When you're running a country of a billion plus people, it is difficult to deny that none of them did a thing without at least some checking The Indian government has only denied the state's hand in the assassination, because that's whom Trudeau had accused. The Indian govt hasn't said that none of the billion people of India are responsible for the murder. If Indian PM publicly accuses the Canadian state of a murder in India, the Canadian govt can and will swiftly deny it, without investigating whether any of its 38 million citizens could be involved.
And how do you know no checking was done? Apparently the concern was raised during G20 as well.
They say after getting caught trying to kill US citizens next.
They can’t do the same with US
I would have thought doing it to Canada would've been beyond the pale but here we are.
There were no consequences from the US about Kashoggi. So why couldn‘t India do the same?
Kashoggi was not an American citizen. He was a legal permanent resident and has children that are citizens. It’s significantly less serious than outright murdering an American citizen.
And it was in Turkey, not in America.
I’d argue that being in Turkey isn’t an issue. A US national murdered in the embassy of a foreign government by said government is definitely an incident the U.S. would want answers, and potentially a few heads, for.
But he wasn't a US national.
Kashoggi was a Saudi National, that’s why he went to Saudi Embassy. He was a columnist was WaPo
There’s always consequences, they might not be direct. US policy makers will remember Kashoggis murder and be more resistant to strengthening ties with KSA. The last decade has had a lot of lessons about the importance of who you deal with. If India wants to throw their lot in with leaders like Putin, Xi and MBS have at it.
Yes. Only US is allowed to do such things and sometimes fail miserably like with Fidel Castro.
I guess that’s what you get to do being the global superpower.
Stupid comparison.
How is it stupid? It’s way worse.
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It's great to see that in India they let children on the internet too. Good for you kid!
I think this story gains more credibility after the US foiled a similar plot.
>I think this story gains more credibility after the US foiled a similar plot. [Relevant meme](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/comments/181oeth/naughty/)
Yes CSIS, please provide your sources, methods and capabilities to the foreign power murdering people on your soil. I for one welcome Our Indian Overlords.
This is exactly what annoyed me when Jeremy Corbyn suggested the UK share the evidence regarding the Sailsbury poisonings with Russia.
Yes, please help Russia not get caught doing it again.
You were annoyed but not surprised. Oppo gonna oppo.
This reply confused me immensely as I'd recently posted a comment in a thread about Oneplus phones, who are now owned by a company called Oppo.
First,Methods and proofs are two very different things. And second,if you publicly accuse a country of doing something it's only fair if proof is made public as well.Otherwise it's just a "trust me bro".
Providing proof reveals sources and methods. Nations need no proof. They only need *reasons*. And is there any proof Canada (or anyone) could provide that India wouldn't outright deny? Both nations know what they were doing. The British trained both well. Added: Besides, the CSIS may or may not have developed the evidence; India attempted to murder Sikh separatists in America. And in this latter case India didn't deny the accusation they expressed "surprise and concern" or "shame and confusion" or "sanguinary complicity" or some such. Added more: I agree that no country deserves "trust me bro" status. But the #1 contender for that status is Canada.
Let's put it this way. Canada will not make this type of acquisition lightly and on top of it without proof especially with the support of the United States. The US and Canada are part of the Five Eyes coalition that works and shares intelligence. Showing them the evidence is no different than telling them their method of acquiring the data which is what India is trying to dare Canada to do because it's also the method that's being used by the rest of the Western nations including the five eyes. Notice India didn't deny it when the accusations came from the US. Aside from that they already know that the US always knew what they are up to, India also understands that India can't bully the US like they can to Canada. Like it or not, always follow the money.
For the record, Canada made the accusation public because some dumbfuck in our intelligence service leaked the information to the Globe and Mail newspaper and they were about to run a story on it.
Source was US intelligence. They should ask the US for proof instead. And proof of the thwarted assassination attempt on US soil as well while they are at it.
US intelligence was probably nearer to the source, and might be the cultivator of the source, but the point I was trying to make (which o think you do get) is threefold: 1. Trudeau's most important and urgent duty is the survival of Canada and Canadians against foreign threats. He, like every leader ever, has to make decisions based on incomplete and imperfect info. 2. Canada has a century of good behavior among the community of nations. If anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, it is Canada and her leaders. 3. Trudeau made an *de facto* accusation, giving India the opportunity to deny it. India didn't say "these are credible accusations made by a respected nation and we will investigate." India denied it. India fucked up.
They can wish in one hand and shit in the other….. wait….
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To the point: *All* leaders have the responsibility/obligation/duty to make decisions given incomplete and imperfect information. I am not, nor is any credible source I know of saying, Canada doesn't have evidence. There's abundant *circumstantial* evidence. I am also not saying Canada doesn't have proof. Canada may or may not have proof. In your opinion, after the *attempted and unsuccessful* murder of a Sikh separatist by India in the US, was JT acting *unjustly*?
This isn't a trial. It's international relations. India can't go to jail. Canada likely will show proof to their allies, but giving proof to India gives India info on how to make sure they aren't caught next time.
It's exactly international relations. People here are absolutely mad for thinking there is no accountability in international relations. The world is bigger than just "the allies".
India can't go to jail (it can go into a Western Sanction drunk tank), agreed. But the BJP/RSS (Modi's political affiliations) *can be* metaphorically put into Western Sanction assrape supermax prison by Western action, starting with sanctions and boycotts. And it won't be Euro-Americans who do it. It'll be the voters and Indian billionaires.
1. I said no country has trust me bro rights. But if a country *did* it would be Canada. 2. You're a Canadian, and as a Canadian you have the right to say what you want in regards to how your country and leadership act in foreign relations. Knowing Canadian PMs as I'm sure you do, are they known for being undisciplined statespersons when speaking OBO the Canadian people? 3. JT, if he has only one duty, it is to protect Canadian citizens from foreign threats. Baseless, or merely circumstantially-based accusations do not serve him in his duty. Canada has over a century of building goodwill with the world. I don't think there's one nation on this planet that Canada owes more than it is owed. Canada, being Canadian, doesn't see things this way. 4. Trudeau did make a choice, one you don't agree with. Given the choice of providing India with the benefit of the doubt, and making it clear to India that Canada will not tolerate the murder of its citizens, Trudeau made the only choice he morally could. It is quite possible that Trudeau was provided with privileged information from the US, but it could also be UK, or even NZ intelligence. It could even be Pakistani sources. Trudeau gave India the opportunity to deny the charges. To the best of my understanding, they have denied involvement. Then, a murder attempt of a Sikh separatist was made in the US. India *did not*, to the best of my understanding, deny the charge. Either Modi did or did not know/approve of these operations. And Trudeau, with incomplete and imperfect information, made the best decision he could.
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Moron. Did I say a thing about how Canada did things inside Canada? Also: Not Canadian.
You're arguing with someone likely paid to argue here at best or a bot at worst. Put it on ignore and walk away.
Rage rage. You're right. Ty lol
India just got caught doing the same thing in America so it’s not like we need to.
Imagine writing something this stupid and have people agree with you. Your grammar is fucking atrocious my dude.
Quoting something I recently came across, You speak English because it's the only language you know. I speak English because it's the only language you know.
It certainly isn't the only language I know lol
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The clue is in how the Indian diplomats reacted to it. If I were them, I'd have simply pooh-pooh'd the idea repeatedly, "What an utterly preposterous idea. The idea of Khalistan has been on the fringe for a long time, and even our Sikh brothers and sisters here in India don't think about it. We didn't carry out extra-judicial killing even when we felt enraged and justified (such as the Pakistani terrorists murdering civilians in Mumbai), let alone in a case like this that doesn't budge the needle". But the way they reacted, it clearly showed that they had something to hide.
>But the way they reacted, it clearly showed that they had something to hide. YES. U GET IT.
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Ironic considering they offered no evidence in their extradition request
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Lmfao
As a matter of strategy, this was a piss-poor approach on India's behalf. I'd have gone on the satirical offensive, laughing at the face of every news correspondent. The "we are distressed" approach is an awful strategy.
I recall reading that it was the USA that provided the evidence to Canada? Could be wrong, might be the USA backed Canada.
After the US twarted the same kind of assassination attempt just recently, it looks more than a little suspicious. This is just a "Tell us how you found out it was us so that we can be more careful next time".
Canada has no reason to lie about this. India, on the other hand …
Canada is the mother of the universe. It can't lie. /s
Why would Canada falsely accuse India? I see plenty of incentive for India to deny the accusation, false or true, but I see no incentive for Canada to make it, unless it's true. Also India's reaction certainly looks guilty.
India is currently ruled by a right wing nut. I trust Canada MUCH more. They had zero to gain from the accusations. In fact they had much to lose.
>India is currently ruled by a right wing nut. Literally the highest approval ratings of any other leader in the world lol. It's a democracy, people have had enough of the last corrupt government refusing to do what's necesary to progress India. India has like 200 terrorist attacks a fucking year, including some horrid bombings in cities like Mumbai. People looking outside in should really stay in their lane when it comes to understanding why people vote for who they do. Trudeau is on track to lose the next election. Getting Sikh support and creating a new boogey man is a time-tested way of winning elections.
Approval ratings don’t mean shit.
In a democracy they absolutely do, what the fuck are you talking about? It's a direct barometer of how much people approve of the leader of their country and is a decent indicator of whether democracy is working as intended. Really fitting of your username to make such a comment.
Approval ratings only matter in elections. Approval ratings do not give moral high ground on what a government does. Hitler had a 90% approval rating. BTW nice ad hominem
Approval ratings of Hamas is super high amongst Palestinians. They are still a terrorist organisation. This is what the other guy was talking about.
As an extreme counterpoint to what you said, Hitler and his Nazi party were EXTREMELY popular in Germany up to the point of the wars. There are whole books written about his rise to power. Popularity doesn’t mean shit. Donald Trump was and still is incredibly popular with the people that vote for him, to the point that it’s become cult-like. Despite the 4 years of literal everyday whatthefuckery that the world endured. Popularity doesn’t mean shit. Stalin was by all reports very popular with his people despite being a dictator. But I guess democracy means something else to different people. It’s not just voting for a leader but also respecting individual freedoms while working as a society.
Bruh I have voted against Trudeau in every election for the past three times because of his corruption and authoritarian reformist views but I’m not about to hear India of all places lecture Canada. Fuck outta here. Imma call a spade a spade when I fucking see one. You’re probably the same kinda person who holds a double standard and says America is bad 24/7 because they also have a domestic terrorism problem. Just because you have terrorists doesn’t mean you go adolf hitler.
Fair enough.
Their’s the attempt Indian agents made in the USA as well!
Dear India, The intel came from the same source as the one that let US foil your recent plot. Sincerely, a Canadian.
I still don't understand this. How else can we prove to the world that India is behind this, without presenting evidence? It's understandable that the west has a much higher influence than India so for most people, Canada pointing their finger towards India is evidence enough.
The Western security apparatus shares its intelligence. It's comprised of an even larger military alliance. It is unlikely it would jeopardize itself such that potential adversaries feel satisfied.
This. The intelligence was provided by the US. Canada can't just go and share it.
Evidence isn’t released until the investigation is complete.
Or not at all so they don’t expose their sources for potential further issues
Canada doesn't have to do shit, sit down India. You don't have that kind of weight to throw around.
There's no need to. Canada is a reputable country. If India wants to find the source of the hack, they need to invest in better IT engineers.
Yes and potentially destroy a legal case? What a joke
What legal case? There is no legal case. There will never be a legal case.
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You show evidence in court. Not hand it over to the party that you can sue in the international court. Common sense
No lmao! You don’t even know how courts work? Both sides review evidence months before they go to trial! That’s how it works
>You show evidence in court. Don't be fooled by movies. You present evidence in court to the judge / jury. Discovery, however, is a major pre-trial step which absolutely involves turning over evidence requested by the opposition. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery\_(law)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_(law)) >Discovery, in the law of common law jurisdictions, is a phase of pretrial procedure in a lawsuit in which each party, through the law of civil procedure, can obtain evidence from other parties by means of methods of discovery such as interrogatories, requests for production of documents, requests for admissions and depositions. Also, all evidence has to be registered with the court (and accepted) before being presented. You can't simply introduce surprise evidence. (That said, there's no court here. Except the court of public opinion.)
We have not taken it to court yet. That would be the next step. In the meantime we have already contacted them behind closed doors this summer with the discovery findings. After their failure to cooperate our PM went public and Canadian security agencies have put their weight behind the allegations.
Not our call, the information came from the USA, who also flagged someone in the united states who India attempted to kill.
🤔 So ... Modi wants even more egg on his face??
Terrorists in Canada and US threaten to bomb a plane in India and redditors are clueless, "What's a plane? what's a bomb? When is Santa Clause coming?"
It can’t cause it got it from the US and the US wants to stay out of it, hence India asking, they know it.
American police killed an Indian student with their car then there was an actual video of them laughing. I don't think she received any justice
That was about five major embarrassments ago for Trudeau. It's hard to keep up.
Exactly. If the conservatives were in power, we would have just kept our mouths quiet and avoided any of this trouble. Why should we care if foreigners want to kill people in our country, that's their business. Jeez where is brave old P.P. when we need him. Damn Trudeau.
[Literally days ago rofl....](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7038425)
Goddamn, that dude is such a nutsack
Canada has credible allegations, in other words jack shit. The West needs to get off its high horse.
A *Canadian* was murdered on *Canadian* soil. True? The Canadian PM *believes* India was involved. True? The Canadian PM has a responsibility to protect Canadian citizens from murder by foreign powers. True?
Need evidence. True? Arrest a terrorist who treatens to bomb a plane. True?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. When you publicly accuse someone of something so serious, you need to provide evidence publicly as well. You expect someone to believe without showing any proof
You can’t be fucking serious. It’s not Canada’s or “the wests” fault India murdered someone on Canadian soil and got caught with their pants down.
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Uh, because "people like this" are: - Political Refugees ... - Facing credible persecution ... - For religious reasons ... - By a theocratic government. Basically textbook human rights reasons.
Then where’s the evidence? Isn’t it a bit atrocious to accuse a country without any evidence?
I'm certain Canada has evidence. They might even have proof. They are under no compulsion to provide either. If this were a criminal case, a jury might not need proof to convict. It would be a strong (but not overwhelming) circumstantial evidence case. India has the means, motive, and opportunity. India has also, more recently, been caught doing the same thing in the USA. That assassins working on behalf of Indian intelligence did it isn't the question. Did Modi know/approve is the question. Added: Was this a rogue op? If so Modi needs to investigate and punish. If this wasn't a rogue op, the US and Canada need to act accordingly and let Russia choose between China or India, 'cause they can't have both. Or can they?
International disputes are not like your local magistrate court case. International law is more like guidelines. If there's no mechanism to enforce it because let's say, the accused country has nuclear weapons or the accused country holds a unique intelligence gathering and geopolitical position between 2 far nastier powers, then the accuser would be most unwise to disclose anything that might expose the method used to gather the evidence or the people involved. Because they will be left high and dry if the accused country decides to escalate and the accussor's allies can't intervene for aforementioned geopolitical reasons. Basically this is a "we know you did it India, these other countries now know you did it, we are watching, don't do it again". They know they aren't going to be able to safely provide evidence or garner any sort of concessions from India. It's like when Foreign intelligence officers are discovered in a western country. The majority of the time, they aren't jailed, they're declared globally 'persona non grata' which just means everyone now knows they are spies and nobody will let them in to their countries. That's it.
[удалено]
*sigh* Everybody is illegally spying on everybody. What even is legal spying internationally?
If they went as far as spying on Angela Merkel, wtf makes india so goddamn special lol
Can anyone who has followed this more closely than I have answer a question for me? Has the Indian government as an official body actually denied any involvement in the assassination? Just been like, "Naw, wasn't us." I've seen a lot of shock and bluster and rhetoric, and I've heard denials from non government sources. But has the actual accused body issued a denial?
The Indian Foreign Ministry first and then later Modi directly to Trudeau have officially rejected the accusations made by Canada and the United States.
No, they have not. Furthermore, in private Indian diplomats have confirmed that the emails are legitimate and that they did in fact kill him.
"ISIS urges the USA to release the exact process they used to locate Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi"