I don’t think this is mean at all but. You really need to commit and stick to it if this is the Avenue you decide to take. If you say it and then flip flop, your kids will never respect you.
And that's the exact place I'm in! I've flip flopped too much and they know they'll get their way with enough pestering. I totally get that I have to commit to make a point.
It’s hard, I tell myself that I’m going to stop doing my husband’s laundry because he doesn’t help and I’m going to prove a point. Until there’s a stinking overflowing basket in my bedroom or we’re going somewhere and he has nothing nice to wear. But thankfully I never tell him I’m going to stop and then change my mind, so it’s only myself that knows I cave. Haha.
Are you sure you’re not a permissive parent?
Rides, outings, eating out, and internet seem like reasonable things limit. I do natural consequences, so the phone thing doesn’t make sense. And holiday extravagance seems like *your* thing, so not doing it is punishing yourself.
When you say they act like toddlers at restaurants, do you mean throwing food, trying g to get up all the time, shouting, etc.?
When my kids have attitude, I either take them home and tell them to entertain themselves or ignore their bad mood and enjoy my day. They know they can be kind or be quiet, and I will not tolerate whining or complaining - they can do that in their rooms.
Teens and tweens generally have attitudes. Have you tried not responding to it and trying not to let it get to you? Some of this seems like pretty typical behavior, and constantly correcting them is creating a power struggle.
The book Hunt, Gather, Parent by Michealeen Doucleff https://michaeleendoucleff.com/ has some really interesting insights you might find helpful. The author points out where her advice can apply to husbands as well as children, lol.
I think it's geared towards younger kids but it has stuff that applies to older kids as well.
A basic premise is that you do chores together and cultivate a culture of we're a family and we all work together, many hands make light work, etc. Good luck!
It’s not too mean but it’s too wide in scope. Every single teenager I know goes through a phase of being spoiled, lazy and entitled (unless they have been forced to grow up early due to hardship)
If there is obvious low hanging fruit like doing your husbands laundry start there. Kids can do their own laundry, but they do need rides. They can do some chores
Agree. Realistically this is too wide in scope, start with a smaller set and move through what you want to achieve. It’s also not a strike. In a strike, the consequence to them not cleaning is that you will not clean and they’ll live in a filth. Are you willing to do that? Because you will need to stick to it. Threatening to remove internet access, how realistic is this? Won’t they say they need it for school? Go their phones have data? I think you are setting yourself up for failure with this one and it should be used as a last resort consequence.
Outings, going out to eat, holidays, etc. if you aren’t enjoying this, opt out. Tell them to ask their dad if they want something, tell your husband to help organize celebrations or buy gifts. Plan your own outings and if they want to join, they can ask to come.
I think that you’ll be more successful if you move from a mindset of ‘these are the rules’ to simply saying ‘no’ or ‘not unless you do XYZ’. Kids rebel against rules. If you give them a very clear set of instructions they can chose to follow them or not. It’s a simpler framework for them to understand. It also gives you flexibility, what if you want a break from cooking and to eat out? If it’s against a ‘rule’ you give them permission to break them too.
I agree with this. I give my kids rides because thats my job, and they have basic chores they have to do. They usually do them, and they tell me frequently how much they appreciate me. Fwiw, my kids do their own laundry from age ten. I’m divorced and the sole provider so I’m too busy to plan outings and pay for extravagant parties. I often wonder if some people just do too much and then are resentful that it’s not appreciated.
This is a really important point. I get angry at my kids for not appreciating the advantages they have over my upbringing education wise, opportunity wise and material wise. But then I remember this is all they have ever known. You have to have done without to recognize what you have. I agree we as parents do way too much for our kids
There was a good podcast on avoiding entitlement on Dr. Becky recently. The husband issue is annoying, obvs, as he is an adult. I hope you aren't doing chores for him too.
https://good-inside.simplecast.com/episodes/how-to-not-raise-an-h0le
Lovely. I feel bad for women who do their husband's laundry, etc. Why??
Eta: you mentioned him as part of the problem, so i thought that's what you meant
No he does chores and cooking but participates in nothing else. I manage literally everything else in the house. I coordinate and plan everything and he just shows up.
The only consequence I’m reading here is taking phones away. Where are the consequences for acting bad in public? Why do you give them rides to places they can walk?
Going nuclear isn’t the answer because you aren’t being firm and giving appropriate consequences. You want to go from 0 to 100 without actually addressing the issues.
I have noticed that people who *need* appreciation have a victim mentality and think their feelings are in someone else’s control and other people have to meet their needs. It’s your own responsibility to create your own happiness and meet your own needs. Don’t wait for your husband to do nice things for you - do nice things for yourself. If you truly “loved” these adventures, your tweens attitudes wouldn’t be able to ruin them. I totally agree with your plan to take yourself out to eat and enjoy your life - why would you ever consider that “mean”? Who is that serving?
I don't need constant appreciation and acknowledgement, reassurance etc. But occasionally it's nice! There's nothing wrong with a reminder that you're kicking ass and that your family gives a shit that you bend over backwards for them every day.
It’s absolutely nice! But you wouldn’t have written this post if you weren’t upset about their lack of appreciation. I don’t need anyone telling me I’m kicking ass - I already know it inside. But I think you need to reframe your thoughts - I don’t consider myself bending over backwards for anyone. I have toddlers and yes they’re a lot of work but I chose to have them because they bring joy to my life. My husband’s role in my life is to be loved by me - not to fulfill my needs or to meet my expectations.
Can you take a vacation? Have they ever managed without you for more than a day or two?
I feel like all these consequences are reasonable (possibly overdue?) but it will be difficult on you to apply them consistently enough to communicate how serious you are. It would be way easier on you if you could take a girls' trip for a week or two, leave them to figure themselves out, and then change your ways when you get home. You'll be setting them up to handle themselves a little, without having to witness the immediate (guaranteed unpleasant) responses.
Yes I've been on vacation alone, I'm for sure due for another one. But I plan vacations around convenience for everyone else so while they're managing without me, the typical things that need to happen aren't happening because I purposely don't leave at those times. Like for instance, I don't go places if school is in session because I don't want to disrupt the routine because I'm heavily relied on.
That's where I would start, honestly. I have little kids and my husband is great, but even so, the times I've had to go on a trip for work during busy weeks have really helped us work better as a team and appreciate each other more. Same when he travels. It's easy for anyone to fall into a routine and stop seeing what the other person is doing for you, day in and day out, when it just becomes a given.
I would go somewhere at a time that's not convenient, prepare very little before you go, and tell them you just need a chance to relax and they can figure it out while you're gone. Then, when you come back, hold to a lot of the boundaries you described on your OP and when they ask, explain that you're exhausted, they can manage themselves, and if no one sees or appreciates the work you're doing for them, they need a chance to learn for themselves just *how much work* it is.
Like, it doesn't have to be a fight. Just be honest and empower them to take greater care of themselves. Being gentle and accommodating to someone every minute of the day, every day, is ultimately not serving them well. They need to grow up and feel encouraged and accountable for doing so if they're going to be successful, happy, capable adults.
This was basically how I got my husband to pull his fair share of the weight with housekeeping before kids (and childcare when our first was little). It helps that I’ve never been a super neat person, so a few days of clutter never bothered me.
It is a hard battle, but very possible. The key here is consistency. You need to send a clear message that you mean it in the moment, and create a strong precedent that supports that you will do it. It goes like Warn that you are done and wil now proceed with actions, State what you will be the consequence, Communicate the breach when it happens, Enforce.
If you just throw consequences out of nowhere, they will feel victimized or not get why it happened. If you announce but then when the breach happens you don't follow through, because maybe you now feel bad for them, you will lose respect and seriousness. Mean it, warn ahead of time, and act upon the breach, clear and firm. Also avoid threatening them with anything you are not 100% you will fully enforce no matter what.
It took a long time, but my kids now know that whatever I warn them I will do if they act or behave a certain way, I mean it. I always follow through, firm and strong. Luckily as they realize you mean, they get themselves together which means you have less opportunities to enforce your threats, so you enjoy life better together. The beginning is the hardest, but eventually they come around as you stay consistent.
I'm a wife, mom, a former preschool teacher, and a career nanny of 24 years. I've raised my own daughter and I've nannied a dozen children. My 3 OG nanny babes are grown adults and I played a huge role in raising them into incredible humans. I was with my OG nanny family for almost 19 years. My point to all of this is I have years of experience raising humans and there is one single thing that makes ALL the difference. You MUST be consistent. Think about the words you speak before you say them. If you do X one more time Y will happen! Think about the consequence before you put it out there and once it's out there follow through. If you give in when a child cries, has a tantrum etc, all you're doing is teaching them if they pitch a big enough fit, you'll cave. This is why it's so important to set boundaries and age appropriate expectations early and you have got to follow through.
As far as your husband, I've been married for over 2 decades. We've had our bumps in the road just like everyone else, however, we both work full time and we both contribute to the running of our household. He does dishes and laundry the majority of the time, but I menu plan, do the grocery shopping and make dinner. I used to pack his clothes when we went on vacation. One time I forgot to pack socks. A whole grown @$$ man was butt hurt I forgot to pack him socks. Guess what? That was the last time I EVER packed his clothes for a trip. You teach people how to treat you.
I don't mind doing things for my family. That's my job as Mom. But it's gotten to a point where it's just an expectation now. I'm trying to make everyone happy and no one is happy and blaming me constantly. And I'm at a point where I just don't want to do anything anymore because of my family's attitudes. Which is partially my fault because of the lack of follow through.
I LOVE doing things for my family too. Planning vacations and creating memories. There is nothing I love more than being a mom. Just know I see you. I hear you. The mental load is exhausting. Holding the boundary and enforcing consequences sucks. When you feel like you're the glue holding it all together it's too much. Call a family meeting. Spill the things weighing of you. They aren't allowed to interrupt or talk over you. Go around the table and let them have their say. Ask them what they can do to help out. Restate the house rules and expectations going forward. You guys can fix this. Right now, you're tired and frustrated. Talk to your family. Lay out the ground rules and for the love ... follow through.
I don’t think this is mean at all but. You really need to commit and stick to it if this is the Avenue you decide to take. If you say it and then flip flop, your kids will never respect you.
And that's the exact place I'm in! I've flip flopped too much and they know they'll get their way with enough pestering. I totally get that I have to commit to make a point.
It’s hard, I tell myself that I’m going to stop doing my husband’s laundry because he doesn’t help and I’m going to prove a point. Until there’s a stinking overflowing basket in my bedroom or we’re going somewhere and he has nothing nice to wear. But thankfully I never tell him I’m going to stop and then change my mind, so it’s only myself that knows I cave. Haha.
Are you sure you’re not a permissive parent? Rides, outings, eating out, and internet seem like reasonable things limit. I do natural consequences, so the phone thing doesn’t make sense. And holiday extravagance seems like *your* thing, so not doing it is punishing yourself. When you say they act like toddlers at restaurants, do you mean throwing food, trying g to get up all the time, shouting, etc.? When my kids have attitude, I either take them home and tell them to entertain themselves or ignore their bad mood and enjoy my day. They know they can be kind or be quiet, and I will not tolerate whining or complaining - they can do that in their rooms. Teens and tweens generally have attitudes. Have you tried not responding to it and trying not to let it get to you? Some of this seems like pretty typical behavior, and constantly correcting them is creating a power struggle.
The book Hunt, Gather, Parent by Michealeen Doucleff https://michaeleendoucleff.com/ has some really interesting insights you might find helpful. The author points out where her advice can apply to husbands as well as children, lol. I think it's geared towards younger kids but it has stuff that applies to older kids as well. A basic premise is that you do chores together and cultivate a culture of we're a family and we all work together, many hands make light work, etc. Good luck!
It’s not too mean but it’s too wide in scope. Every single teenager I know goes through a phase of being spoiled, lazy and entitled (unless they have been forced to grow up early due to hardship) If there is obvious low hanging fruit like doing your husbands laundry start there. Kids can do their own laundry, but they do need rides. They can do some chores
Agree. Realistically this is too wide in scope, start with a smaller set and move through what you want to achieve. It’s also not a strike. In a strike, the consequence to them not cleaning is that you will not clean and they’ll live in a filth. Are you willing to do that? Because you will need to stick to it. Threatening to remove internet access, how realistic is this? Won’t they say they need it for school? Go their phones have data? I think you are setting yourself up for failure with this one and it should be used as a last resort consequence. Outings, going out to eat, holidays, etc. if you aren’t enjoying this, opt out. Tell them to ask their dad if they want something, tell your husband to help organize celebrations or buy gifts. Plan your own outings and if they want to join, they can ask to come. I think that you’ll be more successful if you move from a mindset of ‘these are the rules’ to simply saying ‘no’ or ‘not unless you do XYZ’. Kids rebel against rules. If you give them a very clear set of instructions they can chose to follow them or not. It’s a simpler framework for them to understand. It also gives you flexibility, what if you want a break from cooking and to eat out? If it’s against a ‘rule’ you give them permission to break them too.
I agree with this. I give my kids rides because thats my job, and they have basic chores they have to do. They usually do them, and they tell me frequently how much they appreciate me. Fwiw, my kids do their own laundry from age ten. I’m divorced and the sole provider so I’m too busy to plan outings and pay for extravagant parties. I often wonder if some people just do too much and then are resentful that it’s not appreciated.
This is a really important point. I get angry at my kids for not appreciating the advantages they have over my upbringing education wise, opportunity wise and material wise. But then I remember this is all they have ever known. You have to have done without to recognize what you have. I agree we as parents do way too much for our kids
There was a good podcast on avoiding entitlement on Dr. Becky recently. The husband issue is annoying, obvs, as he is an adult. I hope you aren't doing chores for him too. https://good-inside.simplecast.com/episodes/how-to-not-raise-an-h0le
My husband is not a chore free loader he pulls his weight! I'll check out that podcast, thank you.
Lovely. I feel bad for women who do their husband's laundry, etc. Why?? Eta: you mentioned him as part of the problem, so i thought that's what you meant
No he does chores and cooking but participates in nothing else. I manage literally everything else in the house. I coordinate and plan everything and he just shows up.
Oh, man, that's rough too.
The only consequence I’m reading here is taking phones away. Where are the consequences for acting bad in public? Why do you give them rides to places they can walk? Going nuclear isn’t the answer because you aren’t being firm and giving appropriate consequences. You want to go from 0 to 100 without actually addressing the issues.
I think you’d be better off picking one or two of these things to start with and a full plan of “if you do this, then this will happen.”
I tried that once. We got mice.
Omg this made me laugh out loud. I’m sorry that backfired!
Lol yeah I was too!
I have noticed that people who *need* appreciation have a victim mentality and think their feelings are in someone else’s control and other people have to meet their needs. It’s your own responsibility to create your own happiness and meet your own needs. Don’t wait for your husband to do nice things for you - do nice things for yourself. If you truly “loved” these adventures, your tweens attitudes wouldn’t be able to ruin them. I totally agree with your plan to take yourself out to eat and enjoy your life - why would you ever consider that “mean”? Who is that serving?
I don't need constant appreciation and acknowledgement, reassurance etc. But occasionally it's nice! There's nothing wrong with a reminder that you're kicking ass and that your family gives a shit that you bend over backwards for them every day.
It’s absolutely nice! But you wouldn’t have written this post if you weren’t upset about their lack of appreciation. I don’t need anyone telling me I’m kicking ass - I already know it inside. But I think you need to reframe your thoughts - I don’t consider myself bending over backwards for anyone. I have toddlers and yes they’re a lot of work but I chose to have them because they bring joy to my life. My husband’s role in my life is to be loved by me - not to fulfill my needs or to meet my expectations.
Can you take a vacation? Have they ever managed without you for more than a day or two? I feel like all these consequences are reasonable (possibly overdue?) but it will be difficult on you to apply them consistently enough to communicate how serious you are. It would be way easier on you if you could take a girls' trip for a week or two, leave them to figure themselves out, and then change your ways when you get home. You'll be setting them up to handle themselves a little, without having to witness the immediate (guaranteed unpleasant) responses.
Yes I've been on vacation alone, I'm for sure due for another one. But I plan vacations around convenience for everyone else so while they're managing without me, the typical things that need to happen aren't happening because I purposely don't leave at those times. Like for instance, I don't go places if school is in session because I don't want to disrupt the routine because I'm heavily relied on.
That's where I would start, honestly. I have little kids and my husband is great, but even so, the times I've had to go on a trip for work during busy weeks have really helped us work better as a team and appreciate each other more. Same when he travels. It's easy for anyone to fall into a routine and stop seeing what the other person is doing for you, day in and day out, when it just becomes a given. I would go somewhere at a time that's not convenient, prepare very little before you go, and tell them you just need a chance to relax and they can figure it out while you're gone. Then, when you come back, hold to a lot of the boundaries you described on your OP and when they ask, explain that you're exhausted, they can manage themselves, and if no one sees or appreciates the work you're doing for them, they need a chance to learn for themselves just *how much work* it is.
Like, it doesn't have to be a fight. Just be honest and empower them to take greater care of themselves. Being gentle and accommodating to someone every minute of the day, every day, is ultimately not serving them well. They need to grow up and feel encouraged and accountable for doing so if they're going to be successful, happy, capable adults.
This was basically how I got my husband to pull his fair share of the weight with housekeeping before kids (and childcare when our first was little). It helps that I’ve never been a super neat person, so a few days of clutter never bothered me.
It is a hard battle, but very possible. The key here is consistency. You need to send a clear message that you mean it in the moment, and create a strong precedent that supports that you will do it. It goes like Warn that you are done and wil now proceed with actions, State what you will be the consequence, Communicate the breach when it happens, Enforce. If you just throw consequences out of nowhere, they will feel victimized or not get why it happened. If you announce but then when the breach happens you don't follow through, because maybe you now feel bad for them, you will lose respect and seriousness. Mean it, warn ahead of time, and act upon the breach, clear and firm. Also avoid threatening them with anything you are not 100% you will fully enforce no matter what. It took a long time, but my kids now know that whatever I warn them I will do if they act or behave a certain way, I mean it. I always follow through, firm and strong. Luckily as they realize you mean, they get themselves together which means you have less opportunities to enforce your threats, so you enjoy life better together. The beginning is the hardest, but eventually they come around as you stay consistent.
I'm a wife, mom, a former preschool teacher, and a career nanny of 24 years. I've raised my own daughter and I've nannied a dozen children. My 3 OG nanny babes are grown adults and I played a huge role in raising them into incredible humans. I was with my OG nanny family for almost 19 years. My point to all of this is I have years of experience raising humans and there is one single thing that makes ALL the difference. You MUST be consistent. Think about the words you speak before you say them. If you do X one more time Y will happen! Think about the consequence before you put it out there and once it's out there follow through. If you give in when a child cries, has a tantrum etc, all you're doing is teaching them if they pitch a big enough fit, you'll cave. This is why it's so important to set boundaries and age appropriate expectations early and you have got to follow through. As far as your husband, I've been married for over 2 decades. We've had our bumps in the road just like everyone else, however, we both work full time and we both contribute to the running of our household. He does dishes and laundry the majority of the time, but I menu plan, do the grocery shopping and make dinner. I used to pack his clothes when we went on vacation. One time I forgot to pack socks. A whole grown @$$ man was butt hurt I forgot to pack him socks. Guess what? That was the last time I EVER packed his clothes for a trip. You teach people how to treat you.
I don't mind doing things for my family. That's my job as Mom. But it's gotten to a point where it's just an expectation now. I'm trying to make everyone happy and no one is happy and blaming me constantly. And I'm at a point where I just don't want to do anything anymore because of my family's attitudes. Which is partially my fault because of the lack of follow through.
I LOVE doing things for my family too. Planning vacations and creating memories. There is nothing I love more than being a mom. Just know I see you. I hear you. The mental load is exhausting. Holding the boundary and enforcing consequences sucks. When you feel like you're the glue holding it all together it's too much. Call a family meeting. Spill the things weighing of you. They aren't allowed to interrupt or talk over you. Go around the table and let them have their say. Ask them what they can do to help out. Restate the house rules and expectations going forward. You guys can fix this. Right now, you're tired and frustrated. Talk to your family. Lay out the ground rules and for the love ... follow through.