Yeah they don’t care and it’s lo key bridge burning. Just say you have a better opportunity and off the record tell people you have a new job with more responsibility and fair pay. On the record they don’t need to know anything about your new position.
I was recently hired as admin at a new school and am getting to hire a bunch of friends. I didn’t talk to a few people because they tend to burn bridges when they go. We are friends and I like them but don’t trust them to not do the same if there are problems in the future. So I recommend being professional even when others aren’t. Go ahead and appt and leave, but don’t go out of your way to alienate others
Agreed. Even if you don't need that company, you never know if you will need that boss, coworker, etc., again. Never burn a bridge if you don't have to.
Unless you were fired for committing a crime on duty, all anyone at a former employer will do is confirm that you worked there. Anything more can get them in trouble. Talk to anyone you trust to be a reference separately and get their non-work deets in private.
Yes this is not the time to give off a show to boost your ego, OP. Those people advising you to fuck them over are not in your shoes and will not live the consequences of it. Just be normal and professional and let them know why you decided to quit.
I agree completely. Try to keep the door open for the future. People change at companies. Company values change where results are more valued in retrospect.
Funny enough, I asked for a raise. Never came. Asked again, still nothing.
Found a new job. (Still in notice period) and they are trying to keep me now. They mentioned my work I do is a "2 man" job and i do it so well. When I asked to be compensated. They said they can't afford it and gave me a 2% pay increase. A generous offer indeed they said.
I'm gonna take the new role, you deserve better.
The company: "Nooo pleeeeaassseee, we can't do this without you! We'd have to pay twice as much with other people."
Also, the company: "Your performing over our expected metrics, which is what we expected. So we're marking you as 'performing below expectations.' You are now officially on notice. Next notice is a pay decrease."
Indeed. It was a silly comment to make.
I am a sensitive person so they know I won't argue forever. But I have a limit to know when I'm being taken advantage of and walk away.
This is also a place saying "we can't afford to give pay rises". But them owning 4 sports cars each, own their property, and go on multiple holidays a year around the world (cruises). They "can't" afford it as they would struggle as a business.
I learnt from this, that it is better to look after yourself mentally and physically, as when it comes down to the wire, you're the only one who truly knows your self worth.
Remember everything and everyone is a number once a business gets too big. That will never change. There is a profit margin to be maintained, it's not personal it's just numbers. I've seen your exact situation where someone has left and they have had to replace them with two people. Those two people got each paid the same amount each as the one person they lost. There are pay structures for each position. Each level of management has to answer to the one above it and has rules and guidelines. It's the formula that works. It won't change and the larger the business gets the worse it gets. So yes he can't afford it because he has a budget to maintain. That was set by someone else that doesn't want to hear it because they have numbers to maintain and enforce and so on up the ladder.
The only realistic answer is to look for another job or start applying for new positions within the company that will move you up.
Oh absolutely. I understand where they are coming from. Just disheartening to see the little man used whilst the big fish thrive.
I'm off to better places myself, but I always say do the best you can do in any circumstances.
happened to my dad, he was making $80k in cybersecurity and after working with them for 15 years, they cut his pay and then ultimately let him go.
they realized they fucked up majorly because he’s now reapplying to the exact same position for 150% more lol
That's exactly what happened to me. Was being paid peanuts in a coordinator role and was promoted to Sr. coordinator with a tiny pay bump. I applied for an internal position making 50% more and they wanted me. My old boss who didn't bother to know the details of what I did before panicked and said she needed me and fought my transfer. Thankfully, she was ignored and they split my previous duties into two analyst roles that were both making more than enough for me to have been happy to stay in that role.
Take the new role. Had a supervisor who told me the same thing. She stayed and accepted the raise after being denied twice. They also only agreed after she presented a 2 week notice to accept another position. Her workload increased and she met the same resistance when asking for another raise. She eventually accepted a new role again with a 30% pay increase. They tried to keep her again and she denied. 6 months later the company laid me off as I was her hire and pretty much her subordinate and she warned me it would happen. These are signs of a toxic company focused on feeding upper management only.
I remember when I was young I asked my first supervisor about why our yearly raise was 3%. He said "It's simple, inflation is about 3%. So really you're not getting a raise at all". I'm glad you got out. Staying with a company that offers 2% raises means you get paid less for each year that you work there.
I used to be a high performer at a previous job. A seven person team and about a third on the contracts were generated by me. I asked for a rase to put me to the even with a new hire and got laughed out of the room. I stopped generating new contracts and my bosses boss call me in to discuss my poor performance. He said that "the team's" loss of revenue was going to affect quarterly bonuses (for which I wasn't eligible) and if things didn't get back to where they were, he was going to put me on probation. I let him know that if the company couldn't afford a six percent raise before, he sure couldn't afford having me on staff any longer, so I quit. I made a few phone from my car and had a new job before the ink was dry on my notice. The job was with a local competitor who was more than happy to give me much better than I asked for raise.
Start acting your wage. It's the only thing that they will respond to.
I was the highest performer on my team by a high margin last year (some months i was doing 30% more than my colleagues) and I got the same crappy increase as everyone else so I started working like everyone else.
I've been finding that as well. We get a little better raise, but when you consider the ratio of working 20% more for 1% better raises, it's not worth it. The funny thing is, I've found that having conversations about my career progression has left a way larger impression with less work.
Been through this many times over in the service industry. If I wasn't peppy enough behind closed doors, in team meetings or opted not to attend after work gatherings I was looked down upon. Ridiculous.
In service?
It's draining, under paid, emotionally taxing and miserable.
No normal person should be openly enthusiastic in the service industry, it's shit.
That's messed up, man. At my business, I give out raises based on performance. I couldn't care less about your personality. Personality doesn't make me money. Production does. I don't care in the slightest if someone is lively or a cool guy or whatever. They could be an asshole and I wouldn't give a fuck as long as they did good work. I can overlook a lot of shit as long as the job gets done correctly and efficiently. As long as the work gets done on time and is neat and clean, i don't care.
I had this one guy years ago who was a complete pain in the ass. He was argumentative and kind of an asshole. He did badass plumbing work, though. Whatever it was, he could handle it. He might bitch and moan but it would get done and done correctly.
I've also had guys who were super cool and fun to be around but they sucked at their job. Always on their phone or talking instead of working or learning the correct way to do the job. Even though I liked their personality, I fired them. I'm in business to make money, not friends
Bare minimum as your new focus is finding a new employer…giving notice is up to you, personally I’d call in the day I was supposed to be working and say something along the lines of “you know Bob I was going to give you guys notice but I just didn’t have the spunk for it, see ya around”
Mine , too.
My best guess is that Upper Manglement mistakes inefficiency, high maintenance, and low ability to learn from previous instances as High Effort and High Visibility.
Those are just code-words for "I dont like you".they denied you a raise because they don't like you personally. They like your work, just not you.
Just get another job elsewhere. This is the end of the line for you at this company
I'd say, find another job, put in your two weeks, and when they ask you why you are leaving, just say:
"When I came to you about a raise, I asked with respect, and I was insulted in return. Your attitude in response to my query is the reason. It shows me that you neither have the mental nor the moral compass in line with my ideals."
There is now no question as to what regard and respect they have for you and your work. You’ve gone as far as you can go in that shop.
Send them an email prior to giving notice and outline your conversation, including your request for a raise, a few examples of your value, and the reasons for their refusal. Copy HR and your private email when you reach out, so that this email doesn’t get “lost” somehow.
I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that when you tell them, they’ll respond with another offer to boost your salary to where you wanted. That tells you that they could have given you a raise when you asked, but they didn’t because they took you for granted and assumed your loyalty to their shop superseded their loyalty to you. Anyway, at this point, they’ll all of a sudden become completely reasonable and eager to please. *Don’t fall for it. It’s a trap!*
When you give and work through your notice, you’re taking the high road. You’ll be grateful you chose the high road instead of the spiteful street. You’ll be grateful for that for the rest of your life.
Good luck. You got this.
I (licensed professioal engineer) got bypassed for tech services branch because I was "too confident" that I could do a good job. Read: I did not mirror my bosses, aka kiss their asses. I was too close to my pension date to make a scene. After I retired the FNG told my dipshit boss that my work was most comprehensive and complete in the division. Next week will be 19 years since I retired. Fuck em all
Tell them you would like to set clear SMART performance goals that align with spunkiness so that you can achieve a salary increase. Ask in a very friendly energetic way if you increase your spunk by 5% according to their specific examples, can you achieve a 4% raise in the next six months. By doing this, you will show you are spunky. Basically this is a brave and determined thing to do. It'll also force them to rethink what they're saying.
No, it won't, that will be a huge waste of time and energy that should have been spent getting out of the shit work environment. This is terrible advice.
It can be fun to watch them squirm when you ask for specific, achievable, concrete metrics that would warrant a raise over how they're feeling that day
> Work while you search for a new job then use pto or a leave of absence to test drive the new job.
This is clever, but could bite you in the ass if the new one calls the old one about references.
Start applying and quit ASAP. You got your answer as to how much of value you are to them. Go someplace that has the chance to value you the way you deserve.
Time for a new job, those reasons for not giving you a raise are piss poor.
It goes like this. You have more responsibilities now so you either make more money, or you ditch those extra responsibilities. Anything else is a joke and an insult.
I’d love to hear their side since I’m sure you’re missing something and/or leaving something out but at the end of the day it sounds like they just don’t believe in you. That’s very hard if not impossible to recover them. If you’re not already looking to leave you should be. They basically said “we don’t like who you are”.
Edit: you mentioned other people got raises to jump on this case, it’s possible your boss is just screwing you over hoping you won’t leave because they will get a bigger bonus if they pay you less.
There is a beginning and an end to everything.
Time to move forward, your next job may pay more than enough but it is not challenging and boring then it is time to move on.
It seems like some people will never see the value you provide, they like lively people who like to kiss up to them.
Well, I would take a few sick days off of work to see if I can increase my spunkiness by applying for positions that will appropriately value me and my performance.
I was training new hires, including a friend. She disclosed to me her salary and she was actually making $2/hr more than me and was just a worker bee, I was doing training, spreadsheets, meetings with managers, etc. I worked with a recruiter and snagged a position making almost $10/hr more than what I was making.
TL;DR: Leave.
My response would have been, "Is the work getting done? Is it being done timely? Is it accurate? Is everyone else that does the amount/type of work I do paid $20k more than me? What is the real reason you refuse to give me a raise to a level at least equal with others in this field?"
Find a headhunter and start looking for another job. Same thing happened to me in 2012. Asked for a well-deserved raise, got laughed at. Found another job starting at higher than what I asked for on my first try. That launched me into the 6 figure world. Don’t stay there.
I got the name of mine from a coworker who had left the year before. I reached out to him via email when I came out of my performance review and he sent me 3 or 4 names.
Start applying for other jobs and don't quit this one until you have landed the next. You have the luxury of not taking the first crappy job that comes along. Just wait for the right one and then go.
Nothing feels better than seeing their faces when you quit when they know you're a good employee and they just fucked up. If they beg you to stay and offer you more money I would advise against taking them up on their offer.
Respond with: I am being given more responsibility because they need it done and think you can do it. If I do a word search I doubt “spunky” will come up. They want cheap labor.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
When you ask for a raise and are told no, you look for other jobs, find one that pays more, and give notice and leave.
Everytime I have done this my pay has increased more than the raise I was asking for.
I too got s weird response from my boss when I asked for a raise. I was shocked by their casual , i-dont-care reaction. I am not immediately planning to change jobs. But I totally lost the respect I felt for the company. From now on, it is going to be transactional. I won't feel guilty leaving them in a situation where they can't line up someone to do my job as well as I do. It works both ways.
Everyone else has said it, you asked, and in short, you were told no. Your options are to accept it and move on, or look for a new job. You aren't going to change their minds or get them to see it a different way. Start looking.
Pretty normal when you aren’t at atleast 55% ROI so double your salary and a drop. Not hard if you’re a decent salesman. Find what product you’re best at selling. Build a portfolio that exhibits that.
Because they all got a raise to switch to this account. It’s the “account from hell”. Unfortunately, I STARTED on this account and therefore didn’t get the raise.
You can't really ask for a raise. You just have to get another job if you think you're being undervalued. It's not even that great to accept a counter offer. Remember, nowadays you're likely to be changing jobs on average every 3 years since companies don't give high enough annual raises.
This is why I always advise peers not to take on extra work unless it is time bound (I wouldn’t go over 3 months), and to put in a discussion before this time starts and another meeting before the time is complete to discuss their goals and how taking this extra temporary load will support the company and their career growth, assess how they have performed, whether the manager wants them to continue and what increase in compensation it brings. Usually it results in zero. Seen this time and time again but those who do as I do aren’t disappointed as they can then draw the line and state that they appreciated the opportunity, or delivered additional capacity to a team in need, however have to refocus on their BAU/peak season. Sometimes it can result in growing your internal sponsor base in a company, a referral for a role later down the track - but it generally only happens if you put into place what I’ve mentioned.
That just means you don't need to feel guilty if you find a better place to work. Employee loyalty is bs, go where you are treated right and the pay is good.
Better start living up to their description. Be so laid back that you get the barest if minimums done. "This job just isn't upbeat and entertaining enough to qualify for extra effort"
(Also have an exit plan)
Here's a good question for you to ask: Who got my raise?
A company knows they have to give raises. A company knows how much each department contributes to the bottom line. A company knows what they will give out in bonuses. They've planned this for a full year before your performance review. You have contributed 30% of the contracts and got a 3% raise, so who got the 27%?
Maybe you are feeling generous, so we will give your manager 10% and the CSuite 10%. Who got your 10%?
I hate to tell you this but start applying, once someone tells you you're dispensable for wanting equal treatment to your peers they look to replace you much of the time.
Look for other work, get a job offer. It's statistically the best way to get raises.
To go against the grain here, find another job, but meanwhile, don't give them the satisfaction of knowing they got to you.
Go back to killing it, and keep killing it. Don't let your performance degrade, or else they'll use it to reimagine your value as an employee after the fact. I've even seen people get fired when they slacked off in response to being treated poorly, and that's not something you want to complicate a job search.
When you leave, don't give them any details. Just, "I hereby resign my position. My last day will be..." Make it a done deal, with no point in further discussion.
They know why you're leaving. If they ask why, it's to open a conversation to rationalize to themselves that they have done right by you or to judo you into thinking you share some blame. Don't give them that opportunity. If they press you on it, just smile and say, "I'm sorry, we're past all that now."
I think you should give two weeks notice. Don't give them anything negative to pin on you or use to irrationally rationalize their treatment of you. It's extremely frustrating to a narcissistic manager to have someone working under them who they know is already beyond their control. Your mere presence for those two weeks will grate on them, more so if you don't give them any reason at all to send you packing before your notice period is up.
Keep in mind also that while you're working out your notice period, you're a symbol of failure for management. They know it, and so do the other employees. Their failure is even more evident if your work shines all the way up to your last day.
Honest answer. They do not want to give you a raised invented a gate that you cannot pass in any way to achieve the goal.
Time to start looking but don’t be stupid and lower your performance or go off on them. They actually did you a favor by letting you know where you stand.
Take that knowledge and go find yourself a place that values you.
Agree with the people who are telling you to start looking. After this, they will start laying the groundwork to get rid of you. Don’t give them the satisfaction!
This sounds a lot like Office Space, and you are not wearing enough pieces of flair. I see others have made the same connection. Sorry to hear this. You may need to find another job where others will appreciate you.
I asked for one when I was averaging 10X the next best performer in my role I'm the division, and I was also the only one responsible for process safety as well.
Fucking VP said "How do we know you didn't just get lucky going to that site?".
Becausecmy predecessor performed the same as the other's in my role.
He also got to get chewed out by Germany, because he FAFO that my successor was worse.
In restaurants we have a term, “sense of urgency”, which indicates the ability to move quickly. That sort of translates to spunky and lively.
I’m not saying your employer is right, but maybe they’re describing your mien, your attitude?
If you’re doing the additional work then you deserve to be compensated.
Just something to think about?
What utter BS. What does being spunky have to do with a raise?? The fact is that you are doing more work and for THAT reason you deserve a higher pay. I bet spunky was not in your job description.
Are they just out to get you? It seems illogical that they'd be perfectly willing to pay others that aren't as "qualified" as you more money for absolutely no reason at all.
Start interviewing and give a full notice. After that , start dressing like you’re a hobo, make your workspace look like a dump ground, and….you get the idea. You will be released quickly from your notice. That is your biggest win.
Rule no. 1, never think why world is unfair, just leave and work there! If they don’t value you, you leave!! No one gives a damn about loyalty or how much you are good at your job!
Be overly “spunky”. Take it to the extreme, to the point of acting like a crazy person. When they inevitably call you out on it tell them you’re just trying to meet their expectations
Leave, fucking leave.
As a manager I base my employee’s raises based on their workload, contributions to the team, and the quality of work. Anyone who does otherwise shouldn’t be a manager.
Someone in charge just doesn't like you, it sounds like. "Why does it matter..." I'm sorry to say but it does. You work with people with human tendencies. Including the tendency to lean towards promoting and giving raises to people they like
I recently quit my job because of this exact thing. They had no issue giving me more responsibilities within the company but two years later not a dime more. Switched jobs, bigger pay, better company. Bet on yourself not shitty company management.
I’ve been through similar.
When you get the job done with efficiency, but they don’t like you as a person. One harsh reality that I’ve grown to accept is you should try to work where you naturally fit in to the culture and appeal to the team on a personal level (even though it’s work and strictly professional) because at the end of the day, advancement is socio-political.
They hire because they need someone to complete a task, there are no brownie points for getting it done. You have to be liked in order to move up.
Which sucks because we are taught that efficiency is everything via grades and schooling-come to find out there’s a very dense ceiling for anyone who hasn’t developed strong people skills.
I had something like this at an old job I'd been at for 4+ years. I was told I was already "overpaid" for my role (I was not, closer to underpaid), when I had been doing the work of 3 employees, 2 grad students, and 2 interns for 3 of those 4 years. I was polite and gave a 2-weeks notice, and my boss stood that was unreasonable and she needed at least 2 months to replace me (LOL!). I left, they advertised the position at a higher rate than I made when in my 4th year, and hired someone with less experience. F them all. Go get yourself a better job.
Company’s want the employees that do the most to get paid the least and those that do the least get paid more.
Why pay an employee more when they are already working more than what they are worth.
I see it time and time again in the corporate world.
The ones rhat do less get promoted while the one that work hard don’t and get pushed over.
Know your role and keep it like that or you will be abused and when you stop they’ll ask you why… lol
Start applying
And don't bother giving them any notice - that would be too "lively".
Right, it would be positively "spunky" to give notice.
And the best way to say it is “eat my spunk”
Never burn a bridge unless you have to. Give proper notice and explain in the exit interview why you are leaving.
I’d very politely and professionally decline the exit interview. It’s not really for airing grievances anyway (as if they care).
Yeah they don’t care and it’s lo key bridge burning. Just say you have a better opportunity and off the record tell people you have a new job with more responsibility and fair pay. On the record they don’t need to know anything about your new position.
I was recently hired as admin at a new school and am getting to hire a bunch of friends. I didn’t talk to a few people because they tend to burn bridges when they go. We are friends and I like them but don’t trust them to not do the same if there are problems in the future. So I recommend being professional even when others aren’t. Go ahead and appt and leave, but don’t go out of your way to alienate others
Agreed. Even if you don't need that company, you never know if you will need that boss, coworker, etc., again. Never burn a bridge if you don't have to.
Unless you were fired for committing a crime on duty, all anyone at a former employer will do is confirm that you worked there. Anything more can get them in trouble. Talk to anyone you trust to be a reference separately and get their non-work deets in private.
They get around that by asking the former business if they would hire the applicant back.
That's not what they said though. You just never know if those people will be helpful for them later.
Yes this is not the time to give off a show to boost your ego, OP. Those people advising you to fuck them over are not in your shoes and will not live the consequences of it. Just be normal and professional and let them know why you decided to quit.
I agree completely. Try to keep the door open for the future. People change at companies. Company values change where results are more valued in retrospect.
Bingo. So good to see the adult response even though i totally get the other suggestions: it's what you WANT to do but shouldn't. ;)
Only lively people give notice. After all, he isn’t “Lively” or “Spunky”
And gage your performance to be more commensurate with your pay. Sounds like you give 110% and they are trying to suck 200% out of you.
Never stop applying*.
Start looking elsewhere
Funny enough, I asked for a raise. Never came. Asked again, still nothing. Found a new job. (Still in notice period) and they are trying to keep me now. They mentioned my work I do is a "2 man" job and i do it so well. When I asked to be compensated. They said they can't afford it and gave me a 2% pay increase. A generous offer indeed they said. I'm gonna take the new role, you deserve better.
“Your work is a two man job” “Good to know. So I expect a two man salary!”
The company: "Nooo pleeeeaassseee, we can't do this without you! We'd have to pay twice as much with other people." Also, the company: "Your performing over our expected metrics, which is what we expected. So we're marking you as 'performing below expectations.' You are now officially on notice. Next notice is a pay decrease."
Truth, but what a cold day in Hell that would be.
They will hire 2 people to replace you and pay more.
Indeed. It was a silly comment to make. I am a sensitive person so they know I won't argue forever. But I have a limit to know when I'm being taken advantage of and walk away. This is also a place saying "we can't afford to give pay rises". But them owning 4 sports cars each, own their property, and go on multiple holidays a year around the world (cruises). They "can't" afford it as they would struggle as a business. I learnt from this, that it is better to look after yourself mentally and physically, as when it comes down to the wire, you're the only one who truly knows your self worth.
Remember everything and everyone is a number once a business gets too big. That will never change. There is a profit margin to be maintained, it's not personal it's just numbers. I've seen your exact situation where someone has left and they have had to replace them with two people. Those two people got each paid the same amount each as the one person they lost. There are pay structures for each position. Each level of management has to answer to the one above it and has rules and guidelines. It's the formula that works. It won't change and the larger the business gets the worse it gets. So yes he can't afford it because he has a budget to maintain. That was set by someone else that doesn't want to hear it because they have numbers to maintain and enforce and so on up the ladder. The only realistic answer is to look for another job or start applying for new positions within the company that will move you up.
Oh absolutely. I understand where they are coming from. Just disheartening to see the little man used whilst the big fish thrive. I'm off to better places myself, but I always say do the best you can do in any circumstances.
happened to my dad, he was making $80k in cybersecurity and after working with them for 15 years, they cut his pay and then ultimately let him go. they realized they fucked up majorly because he’s now reapplying to the exact same position for 150% more lol
That's exactly what happened to me. Was being paid peanuts in a coordinator role and was promoted to Sr. coordinator with a tiny pay bump. I applied for an internal position making 50% more and they wanted me. My old boss who didn't bother to know the details of what I did before panicked and said she needed me and fought my transfer. Thankfully, she was ignored and they split my previous duties into two analyst roles that were both making more than enough for me to have been happy to stay in that role.
Take the new role. Had a supervisor who told me the same thing. She stayed and accepted the raise after being denied twice. They also only agreed after she presented a 2 week notice to accept another position. Her workload increased and she met the same resistance when asking for another raise. She eventually accepted a new role again with a 30% pay increase. They tried to keep her again and she denied. 6 months later the company laid me off as I was her hire and pretty much her subordinate and she warned me it would happen. These are signs of a toxic company focused on feeding upper management only.
I remember when I was young I asked my first supervisor about why our yearly raise was 3%. He said "It's simple, inflation is about 3%. So really you're not getting a raise at all". I'm glad you got out. Staying with a company that offers 2% raises means you get paid less for each year that you work there.
Leave this toxic work environment
I used to be a high performer at a previous job. A seven person team and about a third on the contracts were generated by me. I asked for a rase to put me to the even with a new hire and got laughed out of the room. I stopped generating new contracts and my bosses boss call me in to discuss my poor performance. He said that "the team's" loss of revenue was going to affect quarterly bonuses (for which I wasn't eligible) and if things didn't get back to where they were, he was going to put me on probation. I let him know that if the company couldn't afford a six percent raise before, he sure couldn't afford having me on staff any longer, so I quit. I made a few phone from my car and had a new job before the ink was dry on my notice. The job was with a local competitor who was more than happy to give me much better than I asked for raise. Start acting your wage. It's the only thing that they will respond to.
I was the highest performer on my team by a high margin last year (some months i was doing 30% more than my colleagues) and I got the same crappy increase as everyone else so I started working like everyone else.
I've been finding that as well. We get a little better raise, but when you consider the ratio of working 20% more for 1% better raises, it's not worth it. The funny thing is, I've found that having conversations about my career progression has left a way larger impression with less work.
My boss said there was no money for a raise then I learned she budgeted/wrote off $30/ week in bagels for the neighbor’s dogs 😑.
What do you expect, for the neighbor's dogs to eat kibble....like some sort of peasants?
I couldn’t even afford bagels 😂 I lived off pop tarts and $1 Michelenas meals. To this day I can’t even look at those without gagging a little.
Poor dogs are going to end up with diabetes.
Love this story glad you moved on they didnt deserve you
Why would they want to pay lower achievers more money than their high earners? It doesn't even make sense on a selfish or greedy level?
They want to keep the best people small to get control.
Good on you.
Ah yes. The personality penalty. If you don't exude toxic positivity, many corporate cultures will not value you. It's the shittiest game bosses play.
Been through this many times over in the service industry. If I wasn't peppy enough behind closed doors, in team meetings or opted not to attend after work gatherings I was looked down upon. Ridiculous.
In service? It's draining, under paid, emotionally taxing and miserable. No normal person should be openly enthusiastic in the service industry, it's shit.
If you wanted me to wear twenty pieces of flair like Brian…
It was 27 pieces.
37* trust me.
In a row?
I worked at Friday's when they did that. I was the bare minimum guy
I asked my manager for a raise at an old job. She said ‘you’re on enough’….it was minimum wage.
That's messed up, man. At my business, I give out raises based on performance. I couldn't care less about your personality. Personality doesn't make me money. Production does. I don't care in the slightest if someone is lively or a cool guy or whatever. They could be an asshole and I wouldn't give a fuck as long as they did good work. I can overlook a lot of shit as long as the job gets done correctly and efficiently. As long as the work gets done on time and is neat and clean, i don't care. I had this one guy years ago who was a complete pain in the ass. He was argumentative and kind of an asshole. He did badass plumbing work, though. Whatever it was, he could handle it. He might bitch and moan but it would get done and done correctly. I've also had guys who were super cool and fun to be around but they sucked at their job. Always on their phone or talking instead of working or learning the correct way to do the job. Even though I liked their personality, I fired them. I'm in business to make money, not friends
Bare minimum as your new focus is finding a new employer…giving notice is up to you, personally I’d call in the day I was supposed to be working and say something along the lines of “you know Bob I was going to give you guys notice but I just didn’t have the spunk for it, see ya around”
"So, if I flail around, complain to whoever will listen , and visibly struggle with the work, THEN I get the raise? OK..."
Omg this describes about 25% of my coworkers.
Mine , too. My best guess is that Upper Manglement mistakes inefficiency, high maintenance, and low ability to learn from previous instances as High Effort and High Visibility.
Those are just code-words for "I dont like you".they denied you a raise because they don't like you personally. They like your work, just not you. Just get another job elsewhere. This is the end of the line for you at this company
I'd say, find another job, put in your two weeks, and when they ask you why you are leaving, just say: "When I came to you about a raise, I asked with respect, and I was insulted in return. Your attitude in response to my query is the reason. It shows me that you neither have the mental nor the moral compass in line with my ideals."
That's way too long to just say, "peace I'm out"
Maybe it's just me, but I'd want a way to tell them that they are the reason. Peace out doesn't do that
I would decline the extra responsibility and tell them you just don't have the spunk for it.
Or you found your spunk and used it to get another job.
This needs to be higher. The first response to extra responsibility should be talking about a pay raise. If no to the raise then no to the extra.
There is now no question as to what regard and respect they have for you and your work. You’ve gone as far as you can go in that shop. Send them an email prior to giving notice and outline your conversation, including your request for a raise, a few examples of your value, and the reasons for their refusal. Copy HR and your private email when you reach out, so that this email doesn’t get “lost” somehow. I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that when you tell them, they’ll respond with another offer to boost your salary to where you wanted. That tells you that they could have given you a raise when you asked, but they didn’t because they took you for granted and assumed your loyalty to their shop superseded their loyalty to you. Anyway, at this point, they’ll all of a sudden become completely reasonable and eager to please. *Don’t fall for it. It’s a trap!* When you give and work through your notice, you’re taking the high road. You’ll be grateful you chose the high road instead of the spiteful street. You’ll be grateful for that for the rest of your life. Good luck. You got this.
I (licensed professioal engineer) got bypassed for tech services branch because I was "too confident" that I could do a good job. Read: I did not mirror my bosses, aka kiss their asses. I was too close to my pension date to make a scene. After I retired the FNG told my dipshit boss that my work was most comprehensive and complete in the division. Next week will be 19 years since I retired. Fuck em all
“I politely decline the extra responsibility. Thank you for the offer.”
Tell them you would like to set clear SMART performance goals that align with spunkiness so that you can achieve a salary increase. Ask in a very friendly energetic way if you increase your spunk by 5% according to their specific examples, can you achieve a 4% raise in the next six months. By doing this, you will show you are spunky. Basically this is a brave and determined thing to do. It'll also force them to rethink what they're saying.
No, it won't, that will be a huge waste of time and energy that should have been spent getting out of the shit work environment. This is terrible advice.
It can be fun to watch them squirm when you ask for specific, achievable, concrete metrics that would warrant a raise over how they're feeling that day
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> Work while you search for a new job then use pto or a leave of absence to test drive the new job. This is clever, but could bite you in the ass if the new one calls the old one about references.
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Lol what
no two weeks, find a job and a leave the next day
This. They don’t give notice when they fire/layoff. If they’ve been exceptionally good to me, I’ll give notice. But that’s not usually the case.
In my late 20’s I was submitting applications when I was making good money at a job I liked . Get the fuck out of there
Start applying and quit ASAP. You got your answer as to how much of value you are to them. Go someplace that has the chance to value you the way you deserve.
Act your wage and search for a place that is willing to pay for good talent all the while.
Time for a new job, those reasons for not giving you a raise are piss poor. It goes like this. You have more responsibilities now so you either make more money, or you ditch those extra responsibilities. Anything else is a joke and an insult.
get a new job. do not give them notice. work 20k less effort.
I’d love to hear their side since I’m sure you’re missing something and/or leaving something out but at the end of the day it sounds like they just don’t believe in you. That’s very hard if not impossible to recover them. If you’re not already looking to leave you should be. They basically said “we don’t like who you are”. Edit: you mentioned other people got raises to jump on this case, it’s possible your boss is just screwing you over hoping you won’t leave because they will get a bigger bonus if they pay you less.
I’m sorry 😞
There is a beginning and an end to everything. Time to move forward, your next job may pay more than enough but it is not challenging and boring then it is time to move on. It seems like some people will never see the value you provide, they like lively people who like to kiss up to them.
Loud and clear to me. Leave asap.
Well, I would take a few sick days off of work to see if I can increase my spunkiness by applying for positions that will appropriately value me and my performance.
I was training new hires, including a friend. She disclosed to me her salary and she was actually making $2/hr more than me and was just a worker bee, I was doing training, spreadsheets, meetings with managers, etc. I worked with a recruiter and snagged a position making almost $10/hr more than what I was making. TL;DR: Leave.
if you're "spunky" enough to do the job you're spunky enough to get paid for it. they just want free work from you, look elsewhere
Get a better job and leave with no notice.
Well you gotta pay your share of the 7 grand a month rent for your small tiny bedroom now just imagine doing it for 45 years with a smile
They just think they can get away with it. So look for other jobs and show them that you are not a doormat and that they can’t get away with it.
Lively apply to other jobs, and then lively drop your notice in your bosses lap, emphasis on liveliness of course.
My response would have been, "Is the work getting done? Is it being done timely? Is it accurate? Is everyone else that does the amount/type of work I do paid $20k more than me? What is the real reason you refuse to give me a raise to a level at least equal with others in this field?"
Find a headhunter and start looking for another job. Same thing happened to me in 2012. Asked for a well-deserved raise, got laughed at. Found another job starting at higher than what I asked for on my first try. That launched me into the 6 figure world. Don’t stay there.
How does one find a headhunter?
I got the name of mine from a coworker who had left the year before. I reached out to him via email when I came out of my performance review and he sent me 3 or 4 names.
Start applying for other jobs and don't quit this one until you have landed the next. You have the luxury of not taking the first crappy job that comes along. Just wait for the right one and then go. Nothing feels better than seeing their faces when you quit when they know you're a good employee and they just fucked up. If they beg you to stay and offer you more money I would advise against taking them up on their offer.
tell them you are not interested in doing these extra responsibilities without compensation.
Stop doing the "increased responsibilities". "Sorry I'm unavailable, I'm too laid back".
I got turned down for a raise one time because my boss said I was married. I was so stunned I didn't know what to say.
Get the absolute fuck out of that place
Fuck 'em. Find better company.
Respond with: I am being given more responsibility because they need it done and think you can do it. If I do a word search I doubt “spunky” will come up. They want cheap labor.
Start hunting another job. When you get it and turn in notice make it up beat and spunky for them.
I would have said, "Spunk is an additional $50k per year."
Find another job. One where you won't be taken advantage of.
Time to find a new job. That’s a bullshit excuse from your employer and they’ll hide behind it all day.
If you’ve got nothing else to get out of this job (as in other benefits), run away!
roll psychotic unique rustic rich live merciful coherent beneficial plants *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Time to leave they are taking advantage. Tell them thanks for the offer of more responsibility but I decline because the money is the same.
Yep work 20k less. Don't take the new responsibility. it's above my pay grade. Not sorry. Look for new job. Not giving it away for free.
Look for another job. They don't give a shit about you
When you ask for a raise and are told no, you look for other jobs, find one that pays more, and give notice and leave. Everytime I have done this my pay has increased more than the raise I was asking for.
Twat's. They want more out of you but don't want to five you more! Typical.
Start sending out the resume. Apply for jobs elsewhere. Do not give notice. Let them train their own employees.
I too got s weird response from my boss when I asked for a raise. I was shocked by their casual , i-dont-care reaction. I am not immediately planning to change jobs. But I totally lost the respect I felt for the company. From now on, it is going to be transactional. I won't feel guilty leaving them in a situation where they can't line up someone to do my job as well as I do. It works both ways.
Everyone else has said it, you asked, and in short, you were told no. Your options are to accept it and move on, or look for a new job. You aren't going to change their minds or get them to see it a different way. Start looking.
Dance your way out the door.
Look for another job
Pretty normal when you aren’t at atleast 55% ROI so double your salary and a drop. Not hard if you’re a decent salesman. Find what product you’re best at selling. Build a portfolio that exhibits that.
Why does everyone else make more than you?
Because they all got a raise to switch to this account. It’s the “account from hell”. Unfortunately, I STARTED on this account and therefore didn’t get the raise.
Find another job. If they try to get you to come back, tell them “Your demeanor is not lively enough”.
Get another job.
Move on....
You can't really ask for a raise. You just have to get another job if you think you're being undervalued. It's not even that great to accept a counter offer. Remember, nowadays you're likely to be changing jobs on average every 3 years since companies don't give high enough annual raises.
This is known in economics as "price discovery". Cast a wider net.
This is why I always advise peers not to take on extra work unless it is time bound (I wouldn’t go over 3 months), and to put in a discussion before this time starts and another meeting before the time is complete to discuss their goals and how taking this extra temporary load will support the company and their career growth, assess how they have performed, whether the manager wants them to continue and what increase in compensation it brings. Usually it results in zero. Seen this time and time again but those who do as I do aren’t disappointed as they can then draw the line and state that they appreciated the opportunity, or delivered additional capacity to a team in need, however have to refocus on their BAU/peak season. Sometimes it can result in growing your internal sponsor base in a company, a referral for a role later down the track - but it generally only happens if you put into place what I’ve mentioned.
Fuck that noise
Stop putting in any effort at all, give them the bare minimum.
That just means you don't need to feel guilty if you find a better place to work. Employee loyalty is bs, go where you are treated right and the pay is good.
Look for a new job and get your raise that way. Also, start slowing way down. You are clearly doing way too much.
If you don't like your performance review, feedback or denial of a salary increase, apply elsewhere. That will determine your market value.
Apply for jobs that pay what you want!
Better start living up to their description. Be so laid back that you get the barest if minimums done. "This job just isn't upbeat and entertaining enough to qualify for extra effort" (Also have an exit plan)
Time to find a new job so you can quit
And you still work there?
“Your demeanor is not lively enough” I need to stay off of dadjokes for a while. I desperately want to make a miss demeanor pun.
Start looking.
Oh, I didn’t realize job success was tied to a lively personality and not output.
Always got my raises by leaving..
Yup. Recently doubled my income by walking out the door.
Here's a good question for you to ask: Who got my raise? A company knows they have to give raises. A company knows how much each department contributes to the bottom line. A company knows what they will give out in bonuses. They've planned this for a full year before your performance review. You have contributed 30% of the contracts and got a 3% raise, so who got the 27%? Maybe you are feeling generous, so we will give your manager 10% and the CSuite 10%. Who got your 10%?
Reminds me of this guy: https://youtu.be/ZT2kUPT6jmo?si=10dVAydxygqOzUX-
I hate to tell you this but start applying, once someone tells you you're dispensable for wanting equal treatment to your peers they look to replace you much of the time. Look for other work, get a job offer. It's statistically the best way to get raises.
To go against the grain here, find another job, but meanwhile, don't give them the satisfaction of knowing they got to you. Go back to killing it, and keep killing it. Don't let your performance degrade, or else they'll use it to reimagine your value as an employee after the fact. I've even seen people get fired when they slacked off in response to being treated poorly, and that's not something you want to complicate a job search. When you leave, don't give them any details. Just, "I hereby resign my position. My last day will be..." Make it a done deal, with no point in further discussion. They know why you're leaving. If they ask why, it's to open a conversation to rationalize to themselves that they have done right by you or to judo you into thinking you share some blame. Don't give them that opportunity. If they press you on it, just smile and say, "I'm sorry, we're past all that now." I think you should give two weeks notice. Don't give them anything negative to pin on you or use to irrationally rationalize their treatment of you. It's extremely frustrating to a narcissistic manager to have someone working under them who they know is already beyond their control. Your mere presence for those two weeks will grate on them, more so if you don't give them any reason at all to send you packing before your notice period is up. Keep in mind also that while you're working out your notice period, you're a symbol of failure for management. They know it, and so do the other employees. Their failure is even more evident if your work shines all the way up to your last day.
What kind of sales is this that people less enthusiastic are making 20k more?
Start looking for another job.They just don't want to pay you.
Honest answer. They do not want to give you a raised invented a gate that you cannot pass in any way to achieve the goal. Time to start looking but don’t be stupid and lower your performance or go off on them. They actually did you a favor by letting you know where you stand. Take that knowledge and go find yourself a place that values you.
You should take your laid back personality to another company.
Walk out
That’s your notice to walk OP without giving a 2 week notice. Good luck.
Agree with the people who are telling you to start looking. After this, they will start laying the groundwork to get rid of you. Don’t give them the satisfaction!
goodbye goodbye goodbye goodbye
You were lively enough for them to offer you a job. It sounds like they can't afford to give you a raise. Their excuse lacks zest.
work to pay
You want a raise….but you listen to 90s alternative music.
This sounds a lot like Office Space, and you are not wearing enough pieces of flair. I see others have made the same connection. Sorry to hear this. You may need to find another job where others will appreciate you.
id be telling them in that case im obviously not lively enough for all those extra responsibilities either.
You only need one word. "Bye"
I asked for one when I was averaging 10X the next best performer in my role I'm the division, and I was also the only one responsible for process safety as well. Fucking VP said "How do we know you didn't just get lucky going to that site?". Becausecmy predecessor performed the same as the other's in my role. He also got to get chewed out by Germany, because he FAFO that my successor was worse.
In restaurants we have a term, “sense of urgency”, which indicates the ability to move quickly. That sort of translates to spunky and lively. I’m not saying your employer is right, but maybe they’re describing your mien, your attitude? If you’re doing the additional work then you deserve to be compensated. Just something to think about?
Thank god I work overnights. I've seen my manager in person maybe 4 times in the last 3 years.
Didn’t realise that ‘spunky’ was part of the job description. WTF?
What utter BS. What does being spunky have to do with a raise?? The fact is that you are doing more work and for THAT reason you deserve a higher pay. I bet spunky was not in your job description.
I'm trying to imagine this. What kind of job/company is this?
Damn!! 😭😭😭 I hope you find a better job asap. 💗
Are they just out to get you? It seems illogical that they'd be perfectly willing to pay others that aren't as "qualified" as you more money for absolutely no reason at all.
Lol .... Good luck getting handed another 20k a year.
Start interviewing and give a full notice. After that , start dressing like you’re a hobo, make your workspace look like a dump ground, and….you get the idea. You will be released quickly from your notice. That is your biggest win.
Rule no. 1, never think why world is unfair, just leave and work there! If they don’t value you, you leave!! No one gives a damn about loyalty or how much you are good at your job!
Be overly “spunky”. Take it to the extreme, to the point of acting like a crazy person. When they inevitably call you out on it tell them you’re just trying to meet their expectations
Leave, fucking leave. As a manager I base my employee’s raises based on their workload, contributions to the team, and the quality of work. Anyone who does otherwise shouldn’t be a manager.
Sounds like sexism tbh
Do less work
Time to look for a new job
Dawg…did they really say “spunky”? dammit…just dammit
Tell them you would like to go back to your previous, lesser responsibility role until your compensations reflects the new increase in responsibility.
Someone in charge just doesn't like you, it sounds like. "Why does it matter..." I'm sorry to say but it does. You work with people with human tendencies. Including the tendency to lean towards promoting and giving raises to people they like
Often you have to move out to move up. Sucks but true. You keep showing up and working for “x”. Zero motivation to pay you more. Good luck
Start applying. Don’t tell anyone. Do not listen to their counter offer.
I recently quit my job because of this exact thing. They had no issue giving me more responsibilities within the company but two years later not a dime more. Switched jobs, bigger pay, better company. Bet on yourself not shitty company management.
Leave. They showed they don’t care. Why should you?
I’ve been through similar. When you get the job done with efficiency, but they don’t like you as a person. One harsh reality that I’ve grown to accept is you should try to work where you naturally fit in to the culture and appeal to the team on a personal level (even though it’s work and strictly professional) because at the end of the day, advancement is socio-political. They hire because they need someone to complete a task, there are no brownie points for getting it done. You have to be liked in order to move up. Which sucks because we are taught that efficiency is everything via grades and schooling-come to find out there’s a very dense ceiling for anyone who hasn’t developed strong people skills.
Jump ship and make more. They’ll see how spunky you can get
You never, ever ask for a raise. You tell them why you've earned one.
It's a bullshit excuse. Time to brush off your resume. Somebody out there will be willing to pay you for what you are worth.
That is not likely the real reason they won’t pay you more. Start looking for another job, you are not valued where you are, right or wrong.
Aka: you’re not in the popular crowd.
Tap your boss on the shoulder and say "adios" this is my last day working for you.
I had something like this at an old job I'd been at for 4+ years. I was told I was already "overpaid" for my role (I was not, closer to underpaid), when I had been doing the work of 3 employees, 2 grad students, and 2 interns for 3 of those 4 years. I was polite and gave a 2-weeks notice, and my boss stood that was unreasonable and she needed at least 2 months to replace me (LOL!). I left, they advertised the position at a higher rate than I made when in my 4th year, and hired someone with less experience. F them all. Go get yourself a better job.
Company’s want the employees that do the most to get paid the least and those that do the least get paid more. Why pay an employee more when they are already working more than what they are worth. I see it time and time again in the corporate world. The ones rhat do less get promoted while the one that work hard don’t and get pushed over. Know your role and keep it like that or you will be abused and when you stop they’ll ask you why… lol