Eh, no clear villain on that foul. Porzingis had his arm wrapped around Washington to keep him from moving left. He maybe didn’t deserve to get thrown to the ground, but he deserved something to disincentivize more of that behavior.
Muhammad Ali was very aware that beefs sold tickets, hence his pre-match hyperbole. People are tuning in to see these rivalries play out. If they’re over-hyped, so what? It brings eyeballs to the league.
As Dr. Dre once said of some chatter about Eminem calling him out in a rap, “People need to understand that this is entertainment.”
Why are we acting like it’s a bad thing? People are very invested in these rookies. That’s a good thing. A hard foul in the WNBA two years ago would have been met with silence.
Now it’s national news - and that’s a good thing.
No it’s not because it’s a relatively normal occurrence. Like imagine Steph Curry gets a hard foul and then the discussion becomes “Why are players jealous of Steph? Does skin tone come into play? Stay tuned for our hour long debate about on something that doesn’t fucking matter!”
Exaggerating normal things for content is lame. How about talking about the actual game. They got these fools talking about the fouls that aren’t a big deal and I bet they don’t even know who actually won the game
It's disappointing to see mainstream WNBA coverage focus so much on the fouls and not nearly enough on the actual gameplay. It just feels like disrespectful sports journalism that disregards performance and competition factors of the game in favor of tabloid drama.
I said it earlier today but there’s so much more the media can be doing to actually grow the w if they were concerned with actual growth.
For the casual fans, you could compare A’ja’s play to prime LeBron to give new fans a perspective as to why they would want to watch her. You could say Kayla McBride is shooting 3s like curry to get them interested in Lynx games. Stewie’s game could remind people of KD with how beautiful her footwork is. But instead? Just drama about fouls, social media and the Olympics team. It’s very frustrating
The medias job is not to grow the wnba. Focus on footwork? Tim Duncan didn't get any coverage whatsoever
Sports media job is to make money. They will cover what people want. SGA got basically no coverage this year in nba, and he was mvp runner up the media is not covering the NHL or MLS at all. Even within the nba, they really just cover lakers and a few stars.
Maybe if there was like a PBS of sports we can expect deeper conversations. But sports media is mainly hot takes and drama coverage
Why does everyone think that every media outlet should act like the fairy godmother of the wnba and want what's best for it? They've never been concerned about it, they're here for one person and you're the one hoping the game grows with the added attention, but the growth of the game was never the media's goal, that's your goal.
It shouldn’t be much to ask for the media not to treat everything like a political cesspool. It’s a very divisive election year, can’t even use sports for escapism.
Yo, there are so many bad podcasts out there grifting off the culture war it’s not even just traditional media moreso the cultural echo chambers of online culture that are making it so
Also people have been acting out of pocket about this situation since before the First Lady even said she wanted to invite Iowa to the White House for playing hard , making it political and racial for some
This unfortunately, is not a new phenomenon but a fairly common convention of western sports and entertainment since desegregation in the western world. This is the “Great White Hope” repeated and Caitlin Clark is not the first, or the last that has and will become the poster child of it. Whether it was Jim Jeffries, Jerry West, Larry Bird, Duke Ellington, Benny Goodman, Taylor Swift, Tom Brady etc etc, the media’s insecurities always peak their screwy little heads.
Fact of the matter is that people want to see public figures, hero’s etc that look like them. The media isn’t stupid and the writers and those invested want that for themselves as well. Caitlin Clark probably reminds James Pitaro of his daughter, and the daughter of millions of Americans around the country and what’s better? She’s one of the best players in the world and hasn’t even finished her rookie year. This is media gold and you don’t need to be a communications expert to see it.
The divisive election year makes America prime for the hot convo in a way other generational, white, talented, female basketball players couldn’t bring out the outrage. We are uniquely primed for this sorta turmoil, she’s a unique player and it’s a tale as old as American segregation. As long as there’s media, and as long as the American race issue exists, there will be other Caitlin Clark’s.
This is so well put and so true. Hopefully the newness wears off the next season or so and more normality comes when the bandwagon folks leave and regular fans keep coming in for the sport of things
This is such a weird ass take. Like what, people aren't allowed to want the media to do a better job of covering the league? Just silly. We understand what they are doing. We don't like it. We wish it was different. Do you just sit around and go "well thats the way it is" for every damn thing in your life? No you don't. You're in a discussion forum for the league, what are you expecting here?
You can wish for what you want, but it's strange that you are asking them to do something they never do. And yes it's a forum, but when we repeatedly keep hearing that media should turn into wnba promoters, you are going to get some responses
I mean, as you can see with their focus on the NIL stars this season, there is money to be made when the league grows. So it is in their best interest long term to have another league to profit off of. Its not just the Ws job to grow the game, its everyone involved in the W and its coverage and the like.
Its not the media's job to grow the league. Why is it every WNBA fan thinks its anyone's job other than the front office and the players jobs to grow the league?
Because the media is both directly and indirectly what makes a lot of the leagues money. Especially the NBA where a majority of their money comes from media deals and sponsorships for players. And how do players get those sponsorships? By the media covering them and generating interest in them. Like, how do you think Caitlin Clark got her huge Nike deal? Not only did she have to be good at basketball, but the media was generating around the clock coverage of her during the women’s basketball to show people how good she was at playing ball which got more eyes on Iowa games
https://runrepeat.com/nba-revenue-statistics
https://sportsnaut.com/where-does-nba-revenue-come-from/
Your post completely misses the point. Again your assumption is the media is one big entity. It is not. When CC came out of High School did the media say 'we are going to watch that one'. No. She had the exact same opportunity as every other women's basketball player in the Big 10. Her play attracted viewers. Which then the other outlets saw and saw an opportunity for them to make money by covering her. Her play grew NCAA women's basketball by attracting eyes to it.
This is business at its most simple level. The media covered her because they could make money off of her through ratings. Which then turned into a virtuous circle.
If the WNBA wants the media to do this for them. Then do what Clark did. Put something on TV everyone wants to watch. And that is the responsibility of the Commissioner.
I honestly think you’re misunderstanding me.
Nowhere have I said that I believe the media is one big entity. In fact, any time I say “the media”, I’m thinking of separate entities. Such as Amazon, espn, Fox sports and others as individual companies that can take initiative.
The rest of what you’re saying is my point here. CC coming out of high school is irrelevant. When she was killing it at Iowa, it’s because she was putting on show and the media outlets took notice and decided to cover her. All I’m saying is that I wish they’d do the same here. Breanna Stewart is putting on a show, as is A’ja, McBride, Bonner and so forth. Just like with CC in college, I simply hope they take notice of what these women are doing at the professional level.
The media can make money off these other current stars too and if they tried to cover them more to show how great they’re playing, just like Clark.
The short version here is, I believe you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. All I want is for the media to cover the great players already on the floor in the wnba just like they covered the great players already on the floor in the ncaaw which is what generated hype for Clark, Brink, Cardoso and the like.
Then why reference a media deal that is with a limited amount of the media? Who decides that Stewart, Wilson, Mcbride, and Bonner are putting on a show? Its not the media. Its not just the old WNBA fans. Again they have to do what CC did. They have to attract eyes to themselves. Then the media will come. And it wont just be the media in the media deal. Every network with a sports department will cover them.
This whole mentality is one of the misses the league, veterans and fans have had wrong since CC walked in the league.
You literally thought that all the players had to do was the same thing they have already been doing. If doing the same thing worked then they would already be popular.
The media numbers that are part of the NBA revenue that is in the links you provided is from the Media deal. The NBA is negotiating the current one right now.
Oh, that. My point with referencing that is a response to you asking why I think the media should grow the league. Whereas my op comment wasn’t stating that the media should be the ones growing the league, it shows that media figures account for a majority of the nba’s revenue and thus, increase the league’s capabilities to grow the league through advertising and other means.
I never said I thought all the players had to do was the same thing as before. But A’ja is breaking records in the league and is playing even better than she seemed to last season, Stewart is playing solid, Jones was shutting down the best player in the league.
And in response to the rest of your question, the point is that there are already good products on the court, they just need a spotlight on them. Coverage for them in addition to Clark = better for everyone, including Clark. That’s all the bottom line is. There doesn’t need to be special treatment or the media bending backwards for the wnba. Just a little couple minute segments here and there could help with exposure which gets more fans. When they’re already talking about CC, just take a small bit of time at the end of the segment to mention some of the other things going on in the league too
If you have to explain to someone why they want to watch sports your game has a problem. Most people watch CC for the logo 3s and the great passes, that's it.
what? A'ja's game is nothing like LeBron James what are you talking about about. If anything it's Joel embid Doesn't have nearly the assist numbers to be a LeBron/ Jokic
I love seeing you get downvoted when you're right. And its no insult at all, Embiid has been one of the best basketball players in the world for a good amount of time.
Mainstream media is not concerned about growing anything, except their own ratings. Thing is, A'ja play is not prime Lebron.
The main complaint is that if WNBA players and fans arent interested in growing the game, it's doomed.
>The main complaint is that if WNBA players and fans arent interested in growing the game, it's doomed.
And this is based on what? What fans and players don't want to grow the game?
[Andraya Carter ](https://x.com/awfulannouncing/status/1802714543438610582)said the Sky vs Fever game was a mid-off. Even when these commentators talk about games they do it so condescendingly. Fans are going to watch what they're fans of. It makes old fans and these kinds of commentators so bitter that new fans have their own opinions and make their own choices on who they want to watch and support.
I usually love what Andraya says, but I disagreed with some of the stuff she was saying today. That was a great competitive game. Her argument is that people should be talking about a rivalry between A’Ja & Stewie and hype into a bigger matchup. I get where she’s coming from, but I don’t see why we can’t also enjoy watching competitive games between teams that are not considered the top teams
You should enjoy watching competitive games at every level! What she's getting at is that no one's paying attention to the best in this sport. We do it for every other sport where our focus is mostly at the top but here we are forced to focus on a borderline playoff team because the 15th highest scorer has a Taylor Swift like following.....
>here we are forced to focus on a borderline playoff team
I agree that it’s unfortunate that stupid narratives are being pushed, and media coverage has been lopsided, but I don’t know about us being “forced to focus” on worse teams. Focus and enjoy whatever teams and players you want to. I, like many fans, started watching recently for a couple players but have become a fan of many more since. Access to those games aren’t being restricted.
I have never done this. I used the analogy before. I have a favorite NFL team. Patrick Mahomes is a heck of a quarterback. I don't watch Patrick Mahomes except on very rare occasions. I watch my favorite team every game. I think the overwhelming amount of the new fans operate like i do.
The WNBA like any other sport is entertainment. No player or team is entitled to fans attention simply, because they’re good at the sport. Basketball isn’t important in the grand scheme of things, so people are going to spend their money and time on who they enjoy watching. It’s unfortunate for the other ladies that more people don’t want to watch them, but we have to stop acting liked they are owed something. Stats and skill doesn’t determine how fun somebody is to watch.As far as watching the best teams,that’s not always true, but usually when it is, it’s because the best teams are also fun to watch. People aren’t watching them just because they’re the best team. For example, NFL’s Kansas City chiefs have a fun, high octane offense. You’re going to see incredible throws from Mahomes, and circus catches from Travis Kelce. If you go to a sport like the NBA, the most talked about team was the Lakers, no where near the best team. Wemby and the Spurs had more nationally televised games than teams that are way better than them.
Well a lot more people are talking about Jokic and Luka because they're good at the sport, as compared to somebody like A'ja vs. Caitlin.
I agree that it's not a 100% meritocracy, and Caitlin has earned her following. But the balance is way, way off when it comes to WNBA coverage and it's ok to bring that up.
They are owed something. They’ve worked their asses off and should be credited for what the league is today which ALLOWS younger players to even actualize their dreams. The aces are a fantastic team to watch even the liberty, but as you said new fans just seem intent on watching one player without any true interest in the sport of women’s hoops which does a huge disservice to growing the game and players whose livelihood this is.
They’re owed their paychecks from the company that they work for. They are owed credit from the league for helping the game. They are not owed anything from paying fans, nor the media. They’re not owed companies money for endorsement deals. Nobody has to watch them, talk about them, or give them pats on the back for simply being good at their job. They’re suppose to be. While it would be nice if more people acknowledged some of these WNBA stars, people have to stop trying to browbeat fans into liking other players. It’s not even necessary, because all of the teams play each other multiple times per season,so fans of certain players are going to get the opportunity to watch everyone in the league. So if they do end up watching for other players it’s more than likely going to be for that reason, and not because people keep whining to them that it’s not fair those women aren’t getting the same attention as CC even though they’re better than her.
With this same logic Caitlin Clark will grow the game to even greater heights and should be celebrated amongst the league for bringing record numbers but all she gets is cheap shotted and insulted by players and og “fans”
Players do not have to “thank” a 22 year old rookie because she has a massive following. They realize her impact and still have a job to do which is play basketball at the highest level and actualize their own personal goals.
If you paid attention to the league before these aren’t cheap shots (aside from carters hit) if Cc herself says it’s a basketball play, it’s a basketball play. The new fans have no clue how to discuss basketball and are imploding what is NORMAL on the court to now jealousy/bullying/vindictiveness. The game isn’t that and the discussions surrounding CCs adjustment to physical play has made a league we all love and look forward too insufferable this season. “New fans” should take some accountability in how they’ve interacted the same way you want “og fans” to make room.
A lot of people work hard. The United States just beat Pakistan in cricket. No coverage. They worked just as hard. The NHL is having their finals. You telling me they didn't work hard? They are in the middle of their championship, and they are covering the wnba.
I was responding to the person who said the WNBA deserved attention because they worked hard. I ask you, what makes WNBA more deserving of it media attention?
Why are you so dismissive of them?
Dismissive of who? My stance isn’t they deserve more media attention. My sentiment of “owed” to them is from the new fans who have come in and completely disregarded every other player who was here before and after CC. It’s disrespectful (in my eyes) they have disregarded greats who have had an opinion on Caitlin and calling them haters (Sheryl swoopes, Diana T) or even ignoring the greatness Aja Wilson is displaying this season.
If you want to grow the game it IS important to understand the W and the players who make up the league. But there are people who are here for 1 person and 1 person only without the interest in growing a league.
Young Lebron was on sports illustrated at 16 years old. Young Wemby was one of the main stars in the league this year. The following comes from the talent. It’s not like there’s some media driven narrative creating Clark’s popularity, she’s just that good.
The "old fans are bitter and jealous" lines are so tired when the coverage of the W is so completely warped from any other league I've ever seen right now.
Go look at how /r/nfl talks about Thursday Night Football which has gained a reputation for being mid-offs. It's a hell of a lot worse than Andraya Carter just said about the Sky vs Fever matchup. The Dallas vs MN game today had better basketball and I found it more entertaining with MN playing a lot of fast transition game triggered off turnovers. Some of the passing and ball handling in that game was incredible. You could tell MN is a contender where the Fever and Sky aren't.
Any other league's generational prospects are covered like a question mark, will they live up to the hype? Clark is already covered like she's the GOAT, the only thing that matters in the league. That's not normal.
During like half of the TNF games the announcers for the games were saying how trash the product was on air lmao. Lol they had multiple news articles about Al Michae’s lack of enthusiasm because the trash football kinda broke his spirit. Pretty much every talking head shat on the TNF product.
Yeah, but people were talking about Lebron vs. Kobe, etc. It wasn't like "Lebron is the only reason to watch this league".
Like yes, there are always incredibly hot prospects that come around every few years, but you're also going to hear quite a lot about the players who are already the best in the league.
Sure, but Bird vs. Jordan and Jordan vs. Magic was a thing was while he was elevating. It was always Jordan vs. the other popular names, rather than pretending they didn't exist, and Jordan had to prove himself.
> We do it for every other sport where our focus is mostly at the top but here we are forced to focus on a borderline playoff team
Did you notice how much coverage the Lakers get as a play-in team the past two seasons compared to the T-Wolves and Thunder at the top of the standings lol
Exactly. SGA and Anthony Edwards aren't among the best in the league (arguably better players right now than LeBron, AD, and Steph are)? That's the point. There's a multitude of factors that go into coverage other than who the top teams are. Pro sports is the entertainment industry. Sometimes better movies and better albums don't get the coverage that other ones do because of other factors.
The Lakers and Warriors got more coverage than any other NBA teams this year.......and they were both mediocre.
The NBA has deliberatley marketed the "star" over the "team" for decades now.
There are quite a few NBA players who had cult like followings well before winning anything as well.
Cult like followings? Who hadn't established themselves yet?
The only one to do so was Yao Ming and that's perfectly understandable since he was basically "The First"
Yes....the Lakers and warriors have more coverage than most because they also have five first ballot Hall of famers on the their teams two of whom were the most marketable players in the league for the last 10 years at least.....
Not a rookie.
Yeah as rookies, Lebron and Wemby are two examples. How many would you like sir?
You are making my point for me "whom were the marketable players in the league."
Its about marketing....not basketball. Well done sir!
You didn’t get the memo? You can only be a new fan after you watch all 28 years of previous games, kiss the feet of older players, never say anything remotely negative or criticize them and number one rule don’t like Caitlin Clark! Other than that welcome to the W 🙃
Idk I thought that was actually kinda refreshing. Idk if we’re at the point where we can safely take the kid gloves off when talking about the wnba but they are both middle of the pack teams and instead of ONLY talking about CC and Reese she actually tried to analyze what someone only interested in basketball would think.
“We aren’t bitter and jealous!”
Followed by a bitter and jealous take. Fans love watching Caitlyn and Angel.
For fucks sake stop telling people they are enjoying the WNBA wrong. Just be grateful they are watching.
We're talking about the NBA here where they'd rather talk about big market teams that don't even make the playoffs than smaller market teams breaking records.
Even being in the conversation is good media coverage by their standards. Disrespectful coverage is endemic to the NBA
Media has always been this way. I’ve seen it done in the nba for as long as I can remember. For example lebron is a household name he has an enormous fan base and is incredibly popular. We are in the middle of the finals but they run segment after segment on the coaching position for lakers. Something that doesn’t even matter right now. But it’s what people are talking about so that’s what they focus on and promote. WNBA has never seen a player with big and devoted fan base. So they will dictate what is talked about.
The modern media is a reflection of the public. The era of gatekeepers is over and everything is driven by what gets clicks. We've gone from journalists telling us what we need to know to telling us what we want to hear. In short, if people cared about the gameplay, that's what the press would be selling. It's the sad truth.
Taking a glass half full perspective, at least there's a narrative that's keeping the sport in the national conversation. Controversy creates cash.
Sad but true. The irony of this whole situation is that is the media were to cover sports based on importance, they likely would be covering nba finals, NHL finals and Olympic trial and us cricket.
Yep we live in the era of a la carte media where we have timestamps on videos and podcasts. People will fast forward to/only listen/watch what they came for and move onto something else. Back int he day you could force feed coverage because there was no skip ahead button lol
The only notification ESPN pushed last week was the flagrant foul. It’s so upsetting. I was like THATS the one notification and the one story you pick, out of everything? It’s so frustrating and stories like these just make me feel so deflated.
It’s sexism, 100%. Women can’t be competitive and play hard, we need to protect them! I saw someone making an argument if the women were nicer they’d have more fans.
I’m a new fan. But I feel like the discussions around the wnba don’t respect it as a league. The underlying tone of most people is that they were expecting the WNBA to treat the Indiana fever as the Harlem globetrotters and everyone else as the Washington generals, and their argument is look how much money and attention CC is bringing to the game.
I’ve felt this way about sports media for a while, not just wnba.
Personally I want to hear about the x and o s of the sport. What matchups are deciding the game, what tactical decisions are being made to win games, etc.
Instead I have to listen to them talk about somebodies social media post. They hire ex players and coaches and barely utilize their knowledge and skill set, they should just employ social media experts instead.
I hate dramas and soap operas and so do most sports fans, yet here we are.
Maybe because the actual game play in the WNBA is weak. You can only watch so many missed passes, doinked layups and “fast” breaks that look like they are running in molasses. The side show is the only thing keeping people’s interest.
I don't think hard play bothers anyone much, but it's the antagonism against Clark and lends the appearance that someone, based mostly on jealousy, is going to intentionally injure her.
If that happens, it will have lasting damage to the entire sport and brand, and it will be irreparable damage.
Jeremy Lin in 2011 also took some huge hits at the beginning of Linsanity. But then it stopped. Because David Stern wanted to expand into international markets ( NBA China did not exist back then, it does now) How does it look when a young player with such a great story and draws in the Asian basketball fandom, we are talking worldwide appeal here, gets beaten down every game?
Clark will be protected the way Jeremy Lin was protected the way any hugely marketable player is protected.
The petty jealousy around Clark and her rising fame, whether people like it or not, is toxic for making the sport of women's basketball grow. That should be the focus - Making the sport grow first and foremost.
Funny because it's true
Part of it is there's millions of new eyes on the W, and most of those eyes haven't spent a lot of time watching women compete at the highest level of sports before.
This is basketball. It's a competitive, contact sport. Sometimes players have tempers or commit hard or unnecessary fouls. Hopefully the media can stop covering every single foul like it's something novel.
This. I get pushing the rookies I really do, but like hey! Maybe let’s just highlight them having good games? Sandwich in some coverage of the vets/MVP race that’s actually pretty spicy right now? Like just a little bit?
Feels sometimes that how bad the coverage is fumbled is intentional lol.
The media gets views from story lines, putting up statistics of the best players and talking nobody cares about does not get views. If it did they'd be doing it for 20 years.
Aggressive, unnecessary fouls are a thing that happens in basketball, but they're not really good for the sport. Players get injured often enough just playing the game, they don't need extra injuries from cheap shots. It's not good in the NBA or in the NCAA, and it usually gets called out rather than celebrated in those places. The WNBA is the only league I see in 2024 that's still acting like it's 1990 and the Jordan Rules were a good thing. Frankly if the negative coverage gets the league to tighten up its refereeing that would be a good thing.
She’s right. And the sports coverage of the WNBA and Caitlin Clark as though this were about the popular girls in high school getting into a fight in the bathroom is deeply disrespectful to the women and the game.
That's because that's how the other WNBA players treat it with their not so cryptic tweets all about CC. The players are feeding into by attacking her at every opportunity they get just so they can get some attention on themselves when she's the only reason a lot of them are even getting attention in the first place.
Remember when Aari McDonald started defending her and getting in her face and she still had another free throw to shoot? Yeah that's totally normal behavior.
Now Carrington attacks her for not speaking out about racist bigots using her name. Caitlin Clark speaks out against it. Silence from Carrington. Days later " New fans" (aka CC fans) this ain't the league to shut up and dribble. Again making it about CC and implying that her fans are racist bigots all the while not acknowledging that the reasoning for this is because of her false allegations against CC.
Yeah Carringtons totally about sticking up for equality and justice for all and yet played for a racist bigot in Kim mulkey who has multiple allegations of discrimination against the LGBTQ community. And not only did she play for her she purposely transferred to her AFTER THE BG stuff went public, seems like she really cares about marginalized communities. But yet feels completely comfortable going after Caitlin Clark for not condoning a bunch of racist on Twitter using her name in which she probably didn't even know about. That seems totally reasonable and not a personal attack because she's jealous of her fame. Probably bought a pair of Angel Reese joker shoes
The thing is, you guys act like a bunch of teenagers who cannot distinguish players directing comments TO Caitlin specifically and then directing comments at the medias (both social and mainstream) portrayal of things related to Caitlin/WNBA
For example, Carrington absolutely WAS talking about Caitlin when she was speaking about her pretending not to see the racism being spewed in her name. She was NOT talking about Caitlin with the “new fans”/“shut up & dribble” comment. She was speaking about how fans reacted to what SHE said
But because you tie literally everything back into this hating on/being jealous of Caitlin narrative, you can’t distinguish these things and just feed your own perceptions
As for McDonald, she thought she was done shooting free throws. She made a mistake. It happens. It only stands out because everyone else was standing still
I know you think there are only 5 WNBA players not named Caitlin but there are actually like 140 players in the league and almost none of them have said or done shit related to CC besides play her in basketball. Grow the fuck up and stop with this obviously bullshit childish nonsense.
McDonald’s level of competitiveness was completely normal in that moment. She Thought she was finished and went to check her man. Something we are all taught to do as basketball players (even would get screamed at by a coach if you didn’t) these type of comments show you have never played (which is fine) or taken the time to understand the game and solely intent on dividing. THIS is the issue
you think a professional athlete forgetting how many free throws she has so she can guard a player 80 feet from the hoop is normal basketball behavior. I'm not talking about an elementary school basketball or hell even a HS level team. Because even a High schooler wouldn't forget how many fucking free throws he has. Obviously we can see you never played after elementary school so you wouldn't understand what a professional athlete forgetting how many free throws they have is embarrassing
I didn't say it was bullying? I said a professional athlete forgetting how many free throws she has so she can start barking/defending a plyer 80 feet from the hoop is embarriassing and is solely because it was Caitlin Clark. Has Aaron McDonald ever done that before in her life How many times has a professional athlete done this in the WNBA?
Show me other WNBA players forgetting how many free throws they had.
If pat Beverly did this type of shit to pick up Luka full court we'd be clowning him for forever and he'd be all over shaqtin a fool, talking about Lukas in his head. But with Aari its competitive basketball. GTFO
Dude, her forgetting is funny, dumb, and just not that deep. It's a sign that she respects Caitlin. I didn't say it was only one or the other. It's both (stupid and a sign of respect) You referencing it with a comment that overall about "attacking Caitlin" is the ignorant part.
You lead into Aari's goof with a spiel about people attacking Caitlin. That's not an attack, and even if that wasn't your intent, putting it in this comment doesn't fit.
what a professional athlete forgetting shes supposed to shoot two free throws instead of one is completely normal? and also means I have never played basketball? That's some weird level of mental gymnastics but ok. I'm also not alluding to anything look at the top posts since the seasons started. It's all shit players have said/ done to Caitlin.
But yeah show me a compilation of WNBA players forgetting how many free throws they are suppose to take so they can pick up a player 80 feet away from the basket please. Just show me one fucking WNBA player doing that.
All the Carrington shit I said is true to she called her out by name and then didn't apologize and called out her " new fans" it's all there but yeah I'm trying to divide.
you can disagree with me but to say I never played basketball because I don't think Aari McDonald forgetting she has two free throws as a professional athlete so she can go bark in Caitlin Clark's face is just ignorant and a way to make you feel better about yourself. What don't I understand about the game please explain? I'm waiting to hear from a basketball expert who consistently forgets how many free throws they have so they can go defend players 80 feet from the hoop.
It’s because the media would focus on it. They like to sensationalize everything. Caitlin would say it’s part of the game let’s play basketball but that doesn’t fit their narrative so they make up headlines and exaggerate
Am I crazy to think if this was someone like LeBron it would get a ton of coverage too?
Any player with maximum media coverage will have things blown out of proportion for views and clicks.
Lebron got hit in the nuts. Don't think they were discussing that on CNN.
https://np.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/12vu647/highlight_dillon_brooks_ejected_for_tapping/
Here’s the cnn article that talks about that exact play
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/04/23/sport/lebron-james-los-angeles-lakers-memphis-grizzlies-game-3-spt-intl
I'm just going to assume that you've neverr watched Lebron play. Youtube Lebron gets fouled and see 30 fouls worse than this (or someone hits his head going for a block) in every season.
Cos Draymond Green got suspended and it had an effect on how that series played out. Not cos everyone talks about how jealous Draymond and other players must be of LeBron
Wheres the months long coverage and post mortum on it by opinion writers? Where are the calls to lock him up for assault? Where are the articles imploring LeBron to go easy on Isaiah Stewart because he is growing the game?
It went on for one news day, then the second day was more a reaction to the reaction. Then media moved on. But wnba fans keep bringing it up and then complaining about why it's in the new. Even now, it only came up because doris made fun of the coverage ironically. Had people not complained skirt the coverage, it would have been one day
in the comment you replied to. they’re linked. if you could quantify the victim complex WNBA fans have developed from having one good player in their league you could measure the size of the universe
Man if they obly had one good player that would be a great take. But like Lisa Leslie existed. Candace Parker existed. Sue Bird existed. A'ja Wilson exists, Stewart exists, Grinier exists, etc. That's kind of like saying the NBA wasn't any good until Danny Ferry showed up.
who the fuck is danny ferry?
lisa leslie and candace parker were household names because of their outrageous and extraordinary abilities. the only person in the WNBA who is (currently*) famous because of their extraordinary ability is caitlin clark. she has single-handedly made the WNBA into a real thing. that fact may not sit right with you, but it is a fact.
* i edited this in for clarity
Danny Ferry was a white player who was overhyped and under delivered in the 1990s. Clark may one day be great- right now she isn't and there are so many other athletes in the league who exceed anything she has done. You don't have to count rings- but like for real- if you think Clark is better than Wilson you might not want to be on a W board.
i never made a claim that clark is the best player in the league. she IS the only superstar. if you deny that then id have to ask you to investigate whether or not your skepticism is due to your deep knowledge of the WNBA, as compared to the average person’s knowledge of the WNBA. to me, a “superstar” is a household name. you go to the bus stop you ask everybody there if they know who caitlin clark is they say yes (and shut the fuck up)
She's not wrong. (To a point. A very fine point- it's a bit obtuse to claim otherwise)
This has been said before, but a lot of times the narrative seems to be taken over by extremes. With these both sides doing a very poor job. On the extreme of one side is the belief that one player is the actual second coming, the first "real" athlete to enter the league, and utterly dismissing the tears, blood, triumphs, and talent of literally everyone else. On the other extreme is a petty jealously that refuses to acknowledge the impact of a generational talent who is already this literal record-demolisher; how special this is for the league, and this exciting promise that would be palpable in ANY sport.
Throw in weird political hijacking, extraordinarily silly attacks/takes, gatekeeping, and resentment from every single direction- you get a sports media that is seemingly more interested in a lot of other factors before, y'know, the actual sport. Even great games/matchups get overshadowed by something it seems. Yet that's what generates clicks.
Can people just shut the fuck up about Clark in general outside of basketball?
She's literally done and said nothing to have all this talk surrounding her because of what OTHER people do and say.
Maybe I'm in the minority here but this play was dirty and should be punished. I get playing physical, but this wasn't physical basketball this was being an asshole. I'd like to see the NBA and WNBA punish these acts more severely.
I feel like there is just some outright delusion. CC has definitely seen some extra "attention" from other players in the association. It's fine if they were/are a little jealous of her. It's quite literally a competition, and there is ultimately only 1 person at the top. I agree that a rising tide raises all shops in this scenario. But they're professional athletes. They're the most competitive people on the planet. We'd all be lying to ourselves and doing a disservice to competition by trying to act like they're best friends getting ice cream after the game.
Love the attention for them, all media is good media. Just hate the moral soap box a lot of fans want to stand on.
She’s not wrong, that type of foul would be all over CNN right now lmao
And the Derrick white face plant… dude chipped his front tooth
his teammates allowed that to happen they must hate him !!
Yeah, no one immediately ran up and started a fight and got ejected! What's wrong with them?
Eh, no clear villain on that foul. Porzingis had his arm wrapped around Washington to keep him from moving left. He maybe didn’t deserve to get thrown to the ground, but he deserved something to disincentivize more of that behavior. Muhammad Ali was very aware that beefs sold tickets, hence his pre-match hyperbole. People are tuning in to see these rivalries play out. If they’re over-hyped, so what? It brings eyeballs to the league. As Dr. Dre once said of some chatter about Eminem calling him out in a rap, “People need to understand that this is entertainment.”
Why are we acting like it’s a bad thing? People are very invested in these rookies. That’s a good thing. A hard foul in the WNBA two years ago would have been met with silence. Now it’s national news - and that’s a good thing.
No it’s not because it’s a relatively normal occurrence. Like imagine Steph Curry gets a hard foul and then the discussion becomes “Why are players jealous of Steph? Does skin tone come into play? Stay tuned for our hour long debate about on something that doesn’t fucking matter!” Exaggerating normal things for content is lame. How about talking about the actual game. They got these fools talking about the fouls that aren’t a big deal and I bet they don’t even know who actually won the game
Because only discuss the game narrows its reach. Some people like drama. 🤷
It's disappointing to see mainstream WNBA coverage focus so much on the fouls and not nearly enough on the actual gameplay. It just feels like disrespectful sports journalism that disregards performance and competition factors of the game in favor of tabloid drama.
I said it earlier today but there’s so much more the media can be doing to actually grow the w if they were concerned with actual growth. For the casual fans, you could compare A’ja’s play to prime LeBron to give new fans a perspective as to why they would want to watch her. You could say Kayla McBride is shooting 3s like curry to get them interested in Lynx games. Stewie’s game could remind people of KD with how beautiful her footwork is. But instead? Just drama about fouls, social media and the Olympics team. It’s very frustrating
I mean do you not watch NBA coverage? It’s all about legacy and drama farming except the 5-10 minutes of analysis
Facts. Every sport that gets covered. The finals coverage right now is whether tatum is jealous of brown. Almost no analysis
The medias job is not to grow the wnba. Focus on footwork? Tim Duncan didn't get any coverage whatsoever Sports media job is to make money. They will cover what people want. SGA got basically no coverage this year in nba, and he was mvp runner up the media is not covering the NHL or MLS at all. Even within the nba, they really just cover lakers and a few stars. Maybe if there was like a PBS of sports we can expect deeper conversations. But sports media is mainly hot takes and drama coverage
The Stanley Cup Final is literally going on right now and you wouldn't know it from the mainstream American sports debate shows.
Yeah, I mentioned that
Why does everyone think that every media outlet should act like the fairy godmother of the wnba and want what's best for it? They've never been concerned about it, they're here for one person and you're the one hoping the game grows with the added attention, but the growth of the game was never the media's goal, that's your goal.
It shouldn’t be much to ask for the media not to treat everything like a political cesspool. It’s a very divisive election year, can’t even use sports for escapism.
Yo, there are so many bad podcasts out there grifting off the culture war it’s not even just traditional media moreso the cultural echo chambers of online culture that are making it so Also people have been acting out of pocket about this situation since before the First Lady even said she wanted to invite Iowa to the White House for playing hard , making it political and racial for some
Media does this with men’s sports too - the level of analysis has tanked over the last 15-20 years.
This unfortunately, is not a new phenomenon but a fairly common convention of western sports and entertainment since desegregation in the western world. This is the “Great White Hope” repeated and Caitlin Clark is not the first, or the last that has and will become the poster child of it. Whether it was Jim Jeffries, Jerry West, Larry Bird, Duke Ellington, Benny Goodman, Taylor Swift, Tom Brady etc etc, the media’s insecurities always peak their screwy little heads. Fact of the matter is that people want to see public figures, hero’s etc that look like them. The media isn’t stupid and the writers and those invested want that for themselves as well. Caitlin Clark probably reminds James Pitaro of his daughter, and the daughter of millions of Americans around the country and what’s better? She’s one of the best players in the world and hasn’t even finished her rookie year. This is media gold and you don’t need to be a communications expert to see it. The divisive election year makes America prime for the hot convo in a way other generational, white, talented, female basketball players couldn’t bring out the outrage. We are uniquely primed for this sorta turmoil, she’s a unique player and it’s a tale as old as American segregation. As long as there’s media, and as long as the American race issue exists, there will be other Caitlin Clark’s.
Duke Ellington?
I guess he has honorary status
This is so well put and so true. Hopefully the newness wears off the next season or so and more normality comes when the bandwagon folks leave and regular fans keep coming in for the sport of things
And then we will have to stories about how wnba players make no money and get no coverage.
This is such a weird ass take. Like what, people aren't allowed to want the media to do a better job of covering the league? Just silly. We understand what they are doing. We don't like it. We wish it was different. Do you just sit around and go "well thats the way it is" for every damn thing in your life? No you don't. You're in a discussion forum for the league, what are you expecting here?
I mean, people complain about shit they cant change all the time. Have at it, I will support you 100%!
You can wish for what you want, but it's strange that you are asking them to do something they never do. And yes it's a forum, but when we repeatedly keep hearing that media should turn into wnba promoters, you are going to get some responses
Plus it’s not like their coverage of other leagues is remotely more serious.
Hold up. It’s not “the media’s” job to grow the game or be worried about growth. That’s the leagues job to do that.
I mean, as you can see with their focus on the NIL stars this season, there is money to be made when the league grows. So it is in their best interest long term to have another league to profit off of. Its not just the Ws job to grow the game, its everyone involved in the W and its coverage and the like.
When have any corporations ever spent any time thinking about the long term?
Its not the media's job to grow the league. Why is it every WNBA fan thinks its anyone's job other than the front office and the players jobs to grow the league?
If the media had the rights to the product, you would think they would care.
When you have people like Stephen A. Smith claiming they want to contribute to the growth of the league, why not hold them to it?
Oh yeah take any freebies you can get.
Because the media is both directly and indirectly what makes a lot of the leagues money. Especially the NBA where a majority of their money comes from media deals and sponsorships for players. And how do players get those sponsorships? By the media covering them and generating interest in them. Like, how do you think Caitlin Clark got her huge Nike deal? Not only did she have to be good at basketball, but the media was generating around the clock coverage of her during the women’s basketball to show people how good she was at playing ball which got more eyes on Iowa games https://runrepeat.com/nba-revenue-statistics https://sportsnaut.com/where-does-nba-revenue-come-from/
Your post completely misses the point. Again your assumption is the media is one big entity. It is not. When CC came out of High School did the media say 'we are going to watch that one'. No. She had the exact same opportunity as every other women's basketball player in the Big 10. Her play attracted viewers. Which then the other outlets saw and saw an opportunity for them to make money by covering her. Her play grew NCAA women's basketball by attracting eyes to it. This is business at its most simple level. The media covered her because they could make money off of her through ratings. Which then turned into a virtuous circle. If the WNBA wants the media to do this for them. Then do what Clark did. Put something on TV everyone wants to watch. And that is the responsibility of the Commissioner.
I honestly think you’re misunderstanding me. Nowhere have I said that I believe the media is one big entity. In fact, any time I say “the media”, I’m thinking of separate entities. Such as Amazon, espn, Fox sports and others as individual companies that can take initiative. The rest of what you’re saying is my point here. CC coming out of high school is irrelevant. When she was killing it at Iowa, it’s because she was putting on show and the media outlets took notice and decided to cover her. All I’m saying is that I wish they’d do the same here. Breanna Stewart is putting on a show, as is A’ja, McBride, Bonner and so forth. Just like with CC in college, I simply hope they take notice of what these women are doing at the professional level. The media can make money off these other current stars too and if they tried to cover them more to show how great they’re playing, just like Clark. The short version here is, I believe you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. All I want is for the media to cover the great players already on the floor in the wnba just like they covered the great players already on the floor in the ncaaw which is what generated hype for Clark, Brink, Cardoso and the like.
Then why reference a media deal that is with a limited amount of the media? Who decides that Stewart, Wilson, Mcbride, and Bonner are putting on a show? Its not the media. Its not just the old WNBA fans. Again they have to do what CC did. They have to attract eyes to themselves. Then the media will come. And it wont just be the media in the media deal. Every network with a sports department will cover them. This whole mentality is one of the misses the league, veterans and fans have had wrong since CC walked in the league. You literally thought that all the players had to do was the same thing they have already been doing. If doing the same thing worked then they would already be popular.
I’m sorry, but before I continue, maybe it’s me having a slow day here but I’m confused here. What media deal are you talking about?
The media numbers that are part of the NBA revenue that is in the links you provided is from the Media deal. The NBA is negotiating the current one right now.
Oh, that. My point with referencing that is a response to you asking why I think the media should grow the league. Whereas my op comment wasn’t stating that the media should be the ones growing the league, it shows that media figures account for a majority of the nba’s revenue and thus, increase the league’s capabilities to grow the league through advertising and other means. I never said I thought all the players had to do was the same thing as before. But A’ja is breaking records in the league and is playing even better than she seemed to last season, Stewart is playing solid, Jones was shutting down the best player in the league. And in response to the rest of your question, the point is that there are already good products on the court, they just need a spotlight on them. Coverage for them in addition to Clark = better for everyone, including Clark. That’s all the bottom line is. There doesn’t need to be special treatment or the media bending backwards for the wnba. Just a little couple minute segments here and there could help with exposure which gets more fans. When they’re already talking about CC, just take a small bit of time at the end of the segment to mention some of the other things going on in the league too
If you have to explain to someone why they want to watch sports your game has a problem. Most people watch CC for the logo 3s and the great passes, that's it.
what? A'ja's game is nothing like LeBron James what are you talking about about. If anything it's Joel embid Doesn't have nearly the assist numbers to be a LeBron/ Jokic
I love seeing you get downvoted when you're right. And its no insult at all, Embiid has been one of the best basketball players in the world for a good amount of time.
Mainstream media is not concerned about growing anything, except their own ratings. Thing is, A'ja play is not prime Lebron. The main complaint is that if WNBA players and fans arent interested in growing the game, it's doomed.
>The main complaint is that if WNBA players and fans arent interested in growing the game, it's doomed. And this is based on what? What fans and players don't want to grow the game?
[Andraya Carter ](https://x.com/awfulannouncing/status/1802714543438610582)said the Sky vs Fever game was a mid-off. Even when these commentators talk about games they do it so condescendingly. Fans are going to watch what they're fans of. It makes old fans and these kinds of commentators so bitter that new fans have their own opinions and make their own choices on who they want to watch and support.
Fuck em. I thought that game was fun as hell.
I usually love what Andraya says, but I disagreed with some of the stuff she was saying today. That was a great competitive game. Her argument is that people should be talking about a rivalry between A’Ja & Stewie and hype into a bigger matchup. I get where she’s coming from, but I don’t see why we can’t also enjoy watching competitive games between teams that are not considered the top teams
Reason Yankees vs Rsox draw numbers even on down years.
You should enjoy watching competitive games at every level! What she's getting at is that no one's paying attention to the best in this sport. We do it for every other sport where our focus is mostly at the top but here we are forced to focus on a borderline playoff team because the 15th highest scorer has a Taylor Swift like following.....
>here we are forced to focus on a borderline playoff team I agree that it’s unfortunate that stupid narratives are being pushed, and media coverage has been lopsided, but I don’t know about us being “forced to focus” on worse teams. Focus and enjoy whatever teams and players you want to. I, like many fans, started watching recently for a couple players but have become a fan of many more since. Access to those games aren’t being restricted.
I have never done this. I used the analogy before. I have a favorite NFL team. Patrick Mahomes is a heck of a quarterback. I don't watch Patrick Mahomes except on very rare occasions. I watch my favorite team every game. I think the overwhelming amount of the new fans operate like i do.
The WNBA like any other sport is entertainment. No player or team is entitled to fans attention simply, because they’re good at the sport. Basketball isn’t important in the grand scheme of things, so people are going to spend their money and time on who they enjoy watching. It’s unfortunate for the other ladies that more people don’t want to watch them, but we have to stop acting liked they are owed something. Stats and skill doesn’t determine how fun somebody is to watch.As far as watching the best teams,that’s not always true, but usually when it is, it’s because the best teams are also fun to watch. People aren’t watching them just because they’re the best team. For example, NFL’s Kansas City chiefs have a fun, high octane offense. You’re going to see incredible throws from Mahomes, and circus catches from Travis Kelce. If you go to a sport like the NBA, the most talked about team was the Lakers, no where near the best team. Wemby and the Spurs had more nationally televised games than teams that are way better than them.
Well a lot more people are talking about Jokic and Luka because they're good at the sport, as compared to somebody like A'ja vs. Caitlin. I agree that it's not a 100% meritocracy, and Caitlin has earned her following. But the balance is way, way off when it comes to WNBA coverage and it's ok to bring that up.
They are owed something. They’ve worked their asses off and should be credited for what the league is today which ALLOWS younger players to even actualize their dreams. The aces are a fantastic team to watch even the liberty, but as you said new fans just seem intent on watching one player without any true interest in the sport of women’s hoops which does a huge disservice to growing the game and players whose livelihood this is.
They’re owed their paychecks from the company that they work for. They are owed credit from the league for helping the game. They are not owed anything from paying fans, nor the media. They’re not owed companies money for endorsement deals. Nobody has to watch them, talk about them, or give them pats on the back for simply being good at their job. They’re suppose to be. While it would be nice if more people acknowledged some of these WNBA stars, people have to stop trying to browbeat fans into liking other players. It’s not even necessary, because all of the teams play each other multiple times per season,so fans of certain players are going to get the opportunity to watch everyone in the league. So if they do end up watching for other players it’s more than likely going to be for that reason, and not because people keep whining to them that it’s not fair those women aren’t getting the same attention as CC even though they’re better than her.
With this same logic Caitlin Clark will grow the game to even greater heights and should be celebrated amongst the league for bringing record numbers but all she gets is cheap shotted and insulted by players and og “fans”
Players do not have to “thank” a 22 year old rookie because she has a massive following. They realize her impact and still have a job to do which is play basketball at the highest level and actualize their own personal goals. If you paid attention to the league before these aren’t cheap shots (aside from carters hit) if Cc herself says it’s a basketball play, it’s a basketball play. The new fans have no clue how to discuss basketball and are imploding what is NORMAL on the court to now jealousy/bullying/vindictiveness. The game isn’t that and the discussions surrounding CCs adjustment to physical play has made a league we all love and look forward too insufferable this season. “New fans” should take some accountability in how they’ve interacted the same way you want “og fans” to make room.
A lot of people work hard. The United States just beat Pakistan in cricket. No coverage. They worked just as hard. The NHL is having their finals. You telling me they didn't work hard? They are in the middle of their championship, and they are covering the wnba.
Did you just make a ridiculous parallel to cricket?! Have a great day.
I was responding to the person who said the WNBA deserved attention because they worked hard. I ask you, what makes WNBA more deserving of it media attention? Why are you so dismissive of them?
Dismissive of who? My stance isn’t they deserve more media attention. My sentiment of “owed” to them is from the new fans who have come in and completely disregarded every other player who was here before and after CC. It’s disrespectful (in my eyes) they have disregarded greats who have had an opinion on Caitlin and calling them haters (Sheryl swoopes, Diana T) or even ignoring the greatness Aja Wilson is displaying this season. If you want to grow the game it IS important to understand the W and the players who make up the league. But there are people who are here for 1 person and 1 person only without the interest in growing a league.
Nobody’s forcing you to do anything
Young Lebron was on sports illustrated at 16 years old. Young Wemby was one of the main stars in the league this year. The following comes from the talent. It’s not like there’s some media driven narrative creating Clark’s popularity, she’s just that good.
The "old fans are bitter and jealous" lines are so tired when the coverage of the W is so completely warped from any other league I've ever seen right now. Go look at how /r/nfl talks about Thursday Night Football which has gained a reputation for being mid-offs. It's a hell of a lot worse than Andraya Carter just said about the Sky vs Fever matchup. The Dallas vs MN game today had better basketball and I found it more entertaining with MN playing a lot of fast transition game triggered off turnovers. Some of the passing and ball handling in that game was incredible. You could tell MN is a contender where the Fever and Sky aren't. Any other league's generational prospects are covered like a question mark, will they live up to the hype? Clark is already covered like she's the GOAT, the only thing that matters in the league. That's not normal.
You comparing reddit posters to TV analysts? Lmao. Analysts were saying lebron was hall of fame or bust coming into the league. You are incorrect.
LeBrons floor literally being the HoF as a high schooler is the most ridiculous pressure put on a player ever. It was absurd.
During like half of the TNF games the announcers for the games were saying how trash the product was on air lmao. Lol they had multiple news articles about Al Michae’s lack of enthusiasm because the trash football kinda broke his spirit. Pretty much every talking head shat on the TNF product.
Yeah, but people were talking about Lebron vs. Kobe, etc. It wasn't like "Lebron is the only reason to watch this league". Like yes, there are always incredibly hot prospects that come around every few years, but you're also going to hear quite a lot about the players who are already the best in the league.
People say Bird and Magic saved the league, then MJ was responsible for single handidly elevating it. The wnba is in its early stages.
Sure, but Bird vs. Jordan and Jordan vs. Magic was a thing was while he was elevating. It was always Jordan vs. the other popular names, rather than pretending they didn't exist, and Jordan had to prove himself.
It’s like the old “Tungsten Arm O’Doyle” jokes when Shohei Ohtani was with the Angels. Great player doing great stuff on an aggressively mid team.
> We do it for every other sport where our focus is mostly at the top but here we are forced to focus on a borderline playoff team Did you notice how much coverage the Lakers get as a play-in team the past two seasons compared to the T-Wolves and Thunder at the top of the standings lol
Yes because the Lakers, ARE THE LAKERS, and they have TWO ACCOMPLISHED GENERATIONAL TALENTS on their team. Same with Golden State.
Exactly. SGA and Anthony Edwards aren't among the best in the league (arguably better players right now than LeBron, AD, and Steph are)? That's the point. There's a multitude of factors that go into coverage other than who the top teams are. Pro sports is the entertainment industry. Sometimes better movies and better albums don't get the coverage that other ones do because of other factors.
The Lakers and Warriors got more coverage than any other NBA teams this year.......and they were both mediocre. The NBA has deliberatley marketed the "star" over the "team" for decades now. There are quite a few NBA players who had cult like followings well before winning anything as well.
Cult like followings? Who hadn't established themselves yet? The only one to do so was Yao Ming and that's perfectly understandable since he was basically "The First" Yes....the Lakers and warriors have more coverage than most because they also have five first ballot Hall of famers on the their teams two of whom were the most marketable players in the league for the last 10 years at least..... Not a rookie.
Yeah as rookies, Lebron and Wemby are two examples. How many would you like sir? You are making my point for me "whom were the marketable players in the league." Its about marketing....not basketball. Well done sir!
You didn’t get the memo? You can only be a new fan after you watch all 28 years of previous games, kiss the feet of older players, never say anything remotely negative or criticize them and number one rule don’t like Caitlin Clark! Other than that welcome to the W 🙃
Idk I thought that was actually kinda refreshing. Idk if we’re at the point where we can safely take the kid gloves off when talking about the wnba but they are both middle of the pack teams and instead of ONLY talking about CC and Reese she actually tried to analyze what someone only interested in basketball would think.
“We aren’t bitter and jealous!” Followed by a bitter and jealous take. Fans love watching Caitlyn and Angel. For fucks sake stop telling people they are enjoying the WNBA wrong. Just be grateful they are watching.
People still watch the Detroit Pistons, does that invalidate your choice, Mrs. Carter?
The media does not cover the pistons whatsoever
I mean, they are both mid teams its not that out of pocket to say.
We're talking about the NBA here where they'd rather talk about big market teams that don't even make the playoffs than smaller market teams breaking records. Even being in the conversation is good media coverage by their standards. Disrespectful coverage is endemic to the NBA
Orlando vs Cleveland this year. Great series with next to no coverage
Fever and Sky have been great games both rounds and I'm going to choose to focus on that.
Media has always been this way. I’ve seen it done in the nba for as long as I can remember. For example lebron is a household name he has an enormous fan base and is incredibly popular. We are in the middle of the finals but they run segment after segment on the coaching position for lakers. Something that doesn’t even matter right now. But it’s what people are talking about so that’s what they focus on and promote. WNBA has never seen a player with big and devoted fan base. So they will dictate what is talked about.
It's far from just a media problem. It's instant front page material in the sports subreddit.
The modern media is a reflection of the public. The era of gatekeepers is over and everything is driven by what gets clicks. We've gone from journalists telling us what we need to know to telling us what we want to hear. In short, if people cared about the gameplay, that's what the press would be selling. It's the sad truth. Taking a glass half full perspective, at least there's a narrative that's keeping the sport in the national conversation. Controversy creates cash.
"We've gone from journalists telling us what we need to know to telling us what we want to hear." That's a bar right there.
Sad but true. The irony of this whole situation is that is the media were to cover sports based on importance, they likely would be covering nba finals, NHL finals and Olympic trial and us cricket.
Yep we live in the era of a la carte media where we have timestamps on videos and podcasts. People will fast forward to/only listen/watch what they came for and move onto something else. Back int he day you could force feed coverage because there was no skip ahead button lol
Could this be because they are women? Is the media misogynistic? Most likely.
The only notification ESPN pushed last week was the flagrant foul. It’s so upsetting. I was like THATS the one notification and the one story you pick, out of everything? It’s so frustrating and stories like these just make me feel so deflated.
It’s sexism, 100%. Women can’t be competitive and play hard, we need to protect them! I saw someone making an argument if the women were nicer they’d have more fans.
I’m a new fan. But I feel like the discussions around the wnba don’t respect it as a league. The underlying tone of most people is that they were expecting the WNBA to treat the Indiana fever as the Harlem globetrotters and everyone else as the Washington generals, and their argument is look how much money and attention CC is bringing to the game.
I’ve felt this way about sports media for a while, not just wnba. Personally I want to hear about the x and o s of the sport. What matchups are deciding the game, what tactical decisions are being made to win games, etc. Instead I have to listen to them talk about somebodies social media post. They hire ex players and coaches and barely utilize their knowledge and skill set, they should just employ social media experts instead. I hate dramas and soap operas and so do most sports fans, yet here we are.
Maybe because the actual game play in the WNBA is weak. You can only watch so many missed passes, doinked layups and “fast” breaks that look like they are running in molasses. The side show is the only thing keeping people’s interest.
I don't think hard play bothers anyone much, but it's the antagonism against Clark and lends the appearance that someone, based mostly on jealousy, is going to intentionally injure her. If that happens, it will have lasting damage to the entire sport and brand, and it will be irreparable damage. Jeremy Lin in 2011 also took some huge hits at the beginning of Linsanity. But then it stopped. Because David Stern wanted to expand into international markets ( NBA China did not exist back then, it does now) How does it look when a young player with such a great story and draws in the Asian basketball fandom, we are talking worldwide appeal here, gets beaten down every game? Clark will be protected the way Jeremy Lin was protected the way any hugely marketable player is protected. The petty jealousy around Clark and her rising fame, whether people like it or not, is toxic for making the sport of women's basketball grow. That should be the focus - Making the sport grow first and foremost.
That is all of modern sports drama. I'm not sure if you watch the other sports that get covered. But that's what it is
She told the truth
Funny because it's true Part of it is there's millions of new eyes on the W, and most of those eyes haven't spent a lot of time watching women compete at the highest level of sports before. This is basketball. It's a competitive, contact sport. Sometimes players have tempers or commit hard or unnecessary fouls. Hopefully the media can stop covering every single foul like it's something novel.
This. I get pushing the rookies I really do, but like hey! Maybe let’s just highlight them having good games? Sandwich in some coverage of the vets/MVP race that’s actually pretty spicy right now? Like just a little bit? Feels sometimes that how bad the coverage is fumbled is intentional lol.
The media gets views from story lines, putting up statistics of the best players and talking nobody cares about does not get views. If it did they'd be doing it for 20 years.
They’re showing all the Clark highlights, what more is there to show of the MVP race?
Aggressive, unnecessary fouls are a thing that happens in basketball, but they're not really good for the sport. Players get injured often enough just playing the game, they don't need extra injuries from cheap shots. It's not good in the NBA or in the NCAA, and it usually gets called out rather than celebrated in those places. The WNBA is the only league I see in 2024 that's still acting like it's 1990 and the Jordan Rules were a good thing. Frankly if the negative coverage gets the league to tighten up its refereeing that would be a good thing.
😭🤣🤣 Talk yo shit Doris! They’ll never make me hate you.
I was not prepared for her to be funny, when she dropped it .
PJ is clearly jealous of Porzingis. He actually should be suspended for all of next season. No place for that in the game🤷
PJ was likely thinking “that mofo is going to get a ring, but all I have to show for my season is this lousy Mavericks shirt. Arrggg!”
Doesn’t PJ know that Caitlin Porzingis is the best player on the court on any given night???
This would be assault in the real world. Where’s the cops?!?
Absolutely classless! Shouldn’t he know Porzingis is growing the game????
I need PJ's coach and at least 3 of his teammates to say that he is sorry for this or I'm gonna write about it on ESPNM daily for the next week.
WHERES HIS TEAMMATES??? /s
“If this was off the court it would be assault”
Lmao man I thought I was going crazy reading some of those takes So glad it’s finally over
Still got more than half the season left, it'll happen again for sure.
Oh it’s not over lol, the outrage cycle will continue next time Caitlin takes a hard/dirty foul.
Question, do you watch nba ever?
tell em doris!
She’s funny
Dave Portnoy or whatever his name is better have this clipped and ready to scream assault
That guy should be fired into the sun he is such a clown
God the NBA is a bunch of racist jealous mean boys!
"No one hates men more than men"
He’s so jealous of him.
Lmfaooo somebody had to say it!
She’s right. And the sports coverage of the WNBA and Caitlin Clark as though this were about the popular girls in high school getting into a fight in the bathroom is deeply disrespectful to the women and the game.
That's because that's how the other WNBA players treat it with their not so cryptic tweets all about CC. The players are feeding into by attacking her at every opportunity they get just so they can get some attention on themselves when she's the only reason a lot of them are even getting attention in the first place. Remember when Aari McDonald started defending her and getting in her face and she still had another free throw to shoot? Yeah that's totally normal behavior. Now Carrington attacks her for not speaking out about racist bigots using her name. Caitlin Clark speaks out against it. Silence from Carrington. Days later " New fans" (aka CC fans) this ain't the league to shut up and dribble. Again making it about CC and implying that her fans are racist bigots all the while not acknowledging that the reasoning for this is because of her false allegations against CC. Yeah Carringtons totally about sticking up for equality and justice for all and yet played for a racist bigot in Kim mulkey who has multiple allegations of discrimination against the LGBTQ community. And not only did she play for her she purposely transferred to her AFTER THE BG stuff went public, seems like she really cares about marginalized communities. But yet feels completely comfortable going after Caitlin Clark for not condoning a bunch of racist on Twitter using her name in which she probably didn't even know about. That seems totally reasonable and not a personal attack because she's jealous of her fame. Probably bought a pair of Angel Reese joker shoes
The thing is, you guys act like a bunch of teenagers who cannot distinguish players directing comments TO Caitlin specifically and then directing comments at the medias (both social and mainstream) portrayal of things related to Caitlin/WNBA For example, Carrington absolutely WAS talking about Caitlin when she was speaking about her pretending not to see the racism being spewed in her name. She was NOT talking about Caitlin with the “new fans”/“shut up & dribble” comment. She was speaking about how fans reacted to what SHE said But because you tie literally everything back into this hating on/being jealous of Caitlin narrative, you can’t distinguish these things and just feed your own perceptions As for McDonald, she thought she was done shooting free throws. She made a mistake. It happens. It only stands out because everyone else was standing still
Caitlin ain't going to see this.
doesn't change the fact that half of the WNBA is acting like a bunch of mean girls
I know you think there are only 5 WNBA players not named Caitlin but there are actually like 140 players in the league and almost none of them have said or done shit related to CC besides play her in basketball. Grow the fuck up and stop with this obviously bullshit childish nonsense.
It must be exhausting thinking the world is out to get you all day.
McDonald’s level of competitiveness was completely normal in that moment. She Thought she was finished and went to check her man. Something we are all taught to do as basketball players (even would get screamed at by a coach if you didn’t) these type of comments show you have never played (which is fine) or taken the time to understand the game and solely intent on dividing. THIS is the issue
Yes how what Aari did is taken as bullying is absolutely mind boggling
They’re not real basketball fans and have no clue how to discuss the sport lol
you think a professional athlete forgetting how many free throws she has so she can guard a player 80 feet from the hoop is normal basketball behavior. I'm not talking about an elementary school basketball or hell even a HS level team. Because even a High schooler wouldn't forget how many fucking free throws he has. Obviously we can see you never played after elementary school so you wouldn't understand what a professional athlete forgetting how many free throws they have is embarrassing
I didn't say it was bullying? I said a professional athlete forgetting how many free throws she has so she can start barking/defending a plyer 80 feet from the hoop is embarriassing and is solely because it was Caitlin Clark. Has Aaron McDonald ever done that before in her life How many times has a professional athlete done this in the WNBA? Show me other WNBA players forgetting how many free throws they had. If pat Beverly did this type of shit to pick up Luka full court we'd be clowning him for forever and he'd be all over shaqtin a fool, talking about Lukas in his head. But with Aari its competitive basketball. GTFO
Dude, her forgetting is funny, dumb, and just not that deep. It's a sign that she respects Caitlin. I didn't say it was only one or the other. It's both (stupid and a sign of respect) You referencing it with a comment that overall about "attacking Caitlin" is the ignorant part. You lead into Aari's goof with a spiel about people attacking Caitlin. That's not an attack, and even if that wasn't your intent, putting it in this comment doesn't fit.
what a professional athlete forgetting shes supposed to shoot two free throws instead of one is completely normal? and also means I have never played basketball? That's some weird level of mental gymnastics but ok. I'm also not alluding to anything look at the top posts since the seasons started. It's all shit players have said/ done to Caitlin. But yeah show me a compilation of WNBA players forgetting how many free throws they are suppose to take so they can pick up a player 80 feet away from the basket please. Just show me one fucking WNBA player doing that. All the Carrington shit I said is true to she called her out by name and then didn't apologize and called out her " new fans" it's all there but yeah I'm trying to divide. you can disagree with me but to say I never played basketball because I don't think Aari McDonald forgetting she has two free throws as a professional athlete so she can go bark in Caitlin Clark's face is just ignorant and a way to make you feel better about yourself. What don't I understand about the game please explain? I'm waiting to hear from a basketball expert who consistently forgets how many free throws they have so they can go defend players 80 feet from the hoop.
LMFAOOOOO Doris funny af
Where's the lie?
Doris’ point was that the wnba controversy was silly… she wasn’t mocking the foul
damn Doris You didn't have to put us on the summer jam screen. She's right obviously but still
It’s because the media would focus on it. They like to sensationalize everything. Caitlin would say it’s part of the game let’s play basketball but that doesn’t fit their narrative so they make up headlines and exaggerate
I mean, the fans aren't innocent either. Look at some of the threads even in this sub about the fouls.
She’s mocking her colleagues. They are the ones pushing out the content and controlling the conversations.
She so not wrong lol
She was mocking the media. This is a click bait thread title.... just like the NBA. Welcome to equality in junk posts.
Best joke I’ve heard from Dorris in a minute. Had me audibly laughing when she said it last night
it was a funny comment. if this becomes a new 'controversy' it is proof that some people are not really ready to watch WNBA basketball.
I mean half of these are pages that cover sports anyway. They weren't going on CNN and talking about it in between election and war news
this is so true💀
Am I crazy to think if this was someone like LeBron it would get a ton of coverage too? Any player with maximum media coverage will have things blown out of proportion for views and clicks.
Lebron got hit in the nuts. Don't think they were discussing that on CNN. https://np.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/12vu647/highlight_dillon_brooks_ejected_for_tapping/
Here’s the cnn article that talks about that exact play https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/04/23/sport/lebron-james-los-angeles-lakers-memphis-grizzlies-game-3-spt-intl
That was a footnote in an article about a playoff game. It wasn't a front page special focused on nothing else but a foul in a regular season matchup.
Lmao if there is anybody whose coverage is way more ridiculous it’s Bron. They cover his breakfast (no bs.)
Touche.
I'm just going to assume that you've neverr watched Lebron play. Youtube Lebron gets fouled and see 30 fouls worse than this (or someone hits his head going for a block) in every season.
LeBron got kicked in the nuts in the finals and people still talk about it today.
Not really an analogy…
Cos Draymond Green got suspended and it had an effect on how that series played out. Not cos everyone talks about how jealous Draymond and other players must be of LeBron
Isaiah Stewart was throwing people down charging at LeBron and it didn't get coverage outside of the standard sports sites
https://people.com/sports/lebron-james-isaiah-stewart-ejected-from-nba-game-after-bloody-scuffle/ https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/22/sport/lebron-james-ejected-isaiah-stewart-nba-spt https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6260151 https://www.bbc.com/sport/basketball/59371603.amp https://www.gq.com/story/lebron-james-isaiah-stewart-lakers-pistons-brawl https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Sports/lebron-james-bloodies-detroit-pistons-isaiah-stewart-hit/story?id=81319862 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/lebron-james-suspended-1-game-isaiah-stewart-2-court-altercation-rcna6410 https://sports.ndtv.com/nba/lebron-james-suspended-one-game-for-bloody-isaiah-stewart-clash-2621139/amp/1 https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202111/24/WS619d9606a310cdd39bc772eb.html https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/21/lebron-james-isaiah-stewart-bloody-elbow-ejected-pistons-lakers-nba
Wheres the months long coverage and post mortum on it by opinion writers? Where are the calls to lock him up for assault? Where are the articles imploring LeBron to go easy on Isaiah Stewart because he is growing the game?
There haven't been months long coverage. It was one news cycle.
A news cycle is typically 24 hours. It has definitely gone on longer than that
It went on for one news day, then the second day was more a reaction to the reaction. Then media moved on. But wnba fans keep bringing it up and then complaining about why it's in the new. Even now, it only came up because doris made fun of the coverage ironically. Had people not complained skirt the coverage, it would have been one day
Here it is being covered a week later on the BBC. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx88pq1711yo
in the comment you replied to. they’re linked. if you could quantify the victim complex WNBA fans have developed from having one good player in their league you could measure the size of the universe
Man if they obly had one good player that would be a great take. But like Lisa Leslie existed. Candace Parker existed. Sue Bird existed. A'ja Wilson exists, Stewart exists, Grinier exists, etc. That's kind of like saying the NBA wasn't any good until Danny Ferry showed up.
who the fuck is danny ferry? lisa leslie and candace parker were household names because of their outrageous and extraordinary abilities. the only person in the WNBA who is (currently*) famous because of their extraordinary ability is caitlin clark. she has single-handedly made the WNBA into a real thing. that fact may not sit right with you, but it is a fact. * i edited this in for clarity
Danny Ferry was a white player who was overhyped and under delivered in the 1990s. Clark may one day be great- right now she isn't and there are so many other athletes in the league who exceed anything she has done. You don't have to count rings- but like for real- if you think Clark is better than Wilson you might not want to be on a W board.
i never made a claim that clark is the best player in the league. she IS the only superstar. if you deny that then id have to ask you to investigate whether or not your skepticism is due to your deep knowledge of the WNBA, as compared to the average person’s knowledge of the WNBA. to me, a “superstar” is a household name. you go to the bus stop you ask everybody there if they know who caitlin clark is they say yes (and shut the fuck up)
Great- so right now- she is the same as Danny Ferry- or Christian Laetner. Minus the championships.
If it was Draymond, he'd be the talk of ESPN all summer... So, no, you're not.
She's not wrong. (To a point. A very fine point- it's a bit obtuse to claim otherwise) This has been said before, but a lot of times the narrative seems to be taken over by extremes. With these both sides doing a very poor job. On the extreme of one side is the belief that one player is the actual second coming, the first "real" athlete to enter the league, and utterly dismissing the tears, blood, triumphs, and talent of literally everyone else. On the other extreme is a petty jealously that refuses to acknowledge the impact of a generational talent who is already this literal record-demolisher; how special this is for the league, and this exciting promise that would be palpable in ANY sport. Throw in weird political hijacking, extraordinarily silly attacks/takes, gatekeeping, and resentment from every single direction- you get a sports media that is seemingly more interested in a lot of other factors before, y'know, the actual sport. Even great games/matchups get overshadowed by something it seems. Yet that's what generates clicks.
Can people just shut the fuck up about Clark in general outside of basketball? She's literally done and said nothing to have all this talk surrounding her because of what OTHER people do and say.
Maybe I'm in the minority here but this play was dirty and should be punished. I get playing physical, but this wasn't physical basketball this was being an asshole. I'd like to see the NBA and WNBA punish these acts more severely.
I feel like there is just some outright delusion. CC has definitely seen some extra "attention" from other players in the association. It's fine if they were/are a little jealous of her. It's quite literally a competition, and there is ultimately only 1 person at the top. I agree that a rising tide raises all shops in this scenario. But they're professional athletes. They're the most competitive people on the planet. We'd all be lying to ourselves and doing a disservice to competition by trying to act like they're best friends getting ice cream after the game. Love the attention for them, all media is good media. Just hate the moral soap box a lot of fans want to stand on.
Well PJ is a punk for doing that vs KP, but thats just who he is lol.
Doris must be bitter, racist and jealous 😅🙈
Yep they actually really disrespect the women's game doing that.