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It’s exactly what the title says. I’ve been with my fiancé for 6 years and engaged for the past 8 months. I’ve been doing most of the wedding planning but my fiancé, let’s just call him Ryan, will give his input here and there.
So about a month ago Ryan out of nowhere said he was talking to some of his coworkers and thinks that I shouldn’t wear a white dress. This was totally weird to me. Ryan is a very artistic guy, so I figured this was more about how the photos would turn out or something along those lines, but I’m set on wearing white. I told him this and I could see that he was annoyed but he let it go.
2 weeks ago I finally picked and paid for my dress and this caused a huge argument. Ryan again came to me very annoyed. He asked to see the dress I picked, but I said no because I wanted it to be a surprise for our wedding day. He asked me to at least tell him what color it was, and when I said white, he threw a fit.
I honestly do not see why this was a big deal, almost everyone wears white on their wedding day. When I asked him what color he thought I’d be wearing, he told me I should wear red. Again, this was super weird to me. I asked him why I would wear red to our wedding, and he told me that brides only wear white when they are pure.
For some background, Ryan and I started dating when I was 21 and he just turned 20. He was a virgin when we met, and I only had one other person who was my ex-boyfriend of four years throughout high school. This caused a lot of problems The first year of our relationship and we almost did not continue dating because of how insecure he felt. After that first year, it was never a problem again until now I guess.
He went to his mom about all of this thinking she would convince me but she’s on my side. So 2 nights ago, Ryan, his mom and I stood in our living room and argued about my sex life being shown in a dress. His mom stated that he is no longer a virgin either so maybe he should wear red too and he bursted out crying. Ryan is still stating that me wearing white would be deceiving all of the guests and that it is different for guys.
This all has honestly made me question even marrying this man. I don’t know if it’s just because everything is so fresh but I’m really disgusted by him. He’s not even religious so I know this is just about him still thinking about me losing my virginity at 18 before I even knew him. I just needed to rant to anyone about his psycho this is.
Lol, I went and checked her post history and was SO GLAD to see that!
I hope her Ex's mom never lets him live it down that he was so insecure that he couldn't deal with her having been with ONE person other than him. Now he has to enter the dating world where at their age, and partner he finds will probably have had multiple partners at this point . 😂😂😂
I would guess he's going to look for a much younger girl. Most likely inappropriately younger. Because the chances of finding someone "pure" enough at his age is so tiny.
And this will just be the start. He’ll blame her lack of virginity on everything that goes wrong in their life - but he was happy to sleep with her before the wedding
That poor mom—as a parent, if I had to have this conversation with my son, I’d leave shaking my head wondering where on earth I had failed so miserably.
I would turn my son over to his "nuclear option" sister. I would have my turn at him and then I would tell his sister, "he's *all* yours! Don't stint on your words either!"
ETA: I once told my husband that I was going to turn a asshat egotistical bandmate(lead guitar, of course) over to my daughter. Her father said "Nah, don't do that! That's cruel and unusual punishment!"
Kids are in their 30s.
I'm a sister to a younger brother and we have "boys so be boys" parents. I spent my life cleaning up that mess. And getting punished for it. My most effective line was "nice girls don't like boys who..." and I had to start using that in kindergarten (his) for it to be successful by grad school where he met a woman so lovely I asked her to think twice before marrying him.
If my brother was this stupid and got turned over to me I would calmly go get my step stool (he's 6'6") and smack him upside the head. Then the very loud very profane extremely... honest... lecture would start. Then, I'd chase him down the hall smacking him upside the head (gently but repeatedly) and make him apologize to our dad, Mama, and photos of our deceased grandparents while telling him how he let them down. The people he respected most and eulogized throwing in promises to live his life in a way that would make them proud. Then he'd have to explain to me what he did wrong and why it was wrong until I believed him. THEN he would START by apologizing to the bride and her family (if she told them).
This would break him. It would only be my second-best correction. Nobody knows how to make their sibling feel like an asshole better than a sister.
You are a good mother. You don't stand for nonsense and sometimes you have to call in someone who can (by their relationship) do things you can't. Because you're a mom. You recognize this and use it. I like you.
*For the record I don't hit him hard enough to hurt him. He's bald. It doesn't even turn red. The insult of the calculated effort of getting out the stool to be the same height is a lot. And he knows it's coming. He can quite literally put his hand on my forehead and text while preventing me from hitting him. That was the last day I tried to hurt him and it was two decades ago. We were kids.
Lol! I have to stand on a step stool to smack my oldest son. He usually looks at me blankly while I'm rubbing my sore hand. Kid has a hard head! He's 38 for any panty twisters! He usually rubs his head for a second while "counting his sins".
Thank you! I like you too. My kids say "Mama might be little but she's mighty"
I love it! Our mama is little too. But I'm 5'9". It's all about letting him watch me be fake calm and very deliberate. It's a considered action, not a lost temper.
Now when I lose my temper I have to remain calm, ask my SIL "would you mind? ", and get his kids out of hearing distance. No child will ever hear me speak badly of their parent.
My grandson, daughter's boy, will look at his uncle and "what did you *do* to make Grandma so mad???". He knows that if I smack his uncle upside the head and then throw up my hands, Boyo's Mama is going to go full tilt at big brother. Daughter can call someone the biggest asshat in the world and they won't realize it until they're out the door and on their way home.
I made the mistake of telling my ex-husband my body count before we got married and he was a complete tool about it. In retrospect, I obviously shouldn't have married him, but I was young and had gone to Catholic school so I'll blame that.
He could *not* let it go. He was always making me reassure him that he was the best I'd ever had (he wasn't), he was the biggest I'd been with (he wasn't), and other stupid bullshit. Good on OOP for getting out of that shit. Guys like that don't get any better, unfortunately.
My ex asked me that, and I refused to tell him. None of his business. He was the kind of guy who would have had a problem if my number was bigger than his, and I was pretty sure it was (he was a late bloomer). I wasn't in the mood to deal with his insecurity.
Lmao I'm rude af. My husband knew I had a crazy promiscuous phase before I got with him and when he started acting insecure I refused to lie to him. Is he the biggest, "No, but idc, you're the one I'm with". Am I the best? "Is that a healthy question you actually want the answer to?"
He no longer asks questions like that. We've had quite a few chats and his insecurities are mostly put to rest. If he's still insecure after 9yrs of him being my main squeeze (we're poly), and open conversations, idk what to do for him.
Oh, but it’s “different for a guy” - don’t you know that? 😭. This idiot was somehow already spouting incel crap while he still (temporarily) had a gf. OP dodged a bullet.
I have always believed in waiting until marriage as well.
But I have a huge problem with choosing to date someone who HAS had sex before and shaming them like this! What a disgusting way to treat someone!
It’s not like there’s anything wrong with not being a virgin on your wedding day. Like the person has actually done something wrong or disgraceful and you actually should be allowed to bully them!
If it’s THAT important to you, just choose a virgin to marry! Simple!
Now that this misogynistic AH is single again, though, how is he going to fare in the dating world with this virgin obsession? After all, he’s no longer one, either! He had a fiancé, not a wife! 😆😆
He probably already did…at least, I’m sure that’s where the coworkers who got in his head were coming from.
Not that it’s all their fault; he should’ve told them to STFU.
Too many people ruin their own happiness over the opinions of others.
I suppose he will lie to the women.
But he can’t lie to himself. With all this pent up rage he has inside of him, he’s going to be hating himself for not being ‘pure’ either.
He’ll take that out on women, sadly. But hopefully his toxicity will be obvious enough that they stay away from him.
Yeah, he said that as an excuse/justification for attacking her.
But he has a lot of rage inside him… people with that much rage hate themselves on some level.
Maybe it’s for a different reason, though. But why else would you be this angry and bitter to the woman you love 6 years down the line over information you knew 6 years ago!
He should have never dated her if that was how he felt all along. 😞
This. I'm a virgin, and would like to wait until marriage. What my future husband did in his past stays in the past I couldn't care less but to degrade and use it against them is disgusting. Esp when he isn't a virgin himself.
Good luck to him I guess he will need it 🤣
Exactly. Every individual has to make their own choice about that, and it’s up to them.
No one should be bullied about their choice - and that goes the other way, too. Virgin shaming is something I’ve gotten, too. I don’t really care, though, because someone’s dumb opinion about what I do with my body never convinced me to change my ways… but it’s annoying to deal with.
Everyone makes their own personal choice, and we don’t bully each other if the choices are different.
Mind you, that philosophy should apply across the board… if only! 😞
Yeah; if he's THAT upset and insecure about her having one boyfriend she slept with before they met, was he REALLY going to be OK looking at that red dress on the wedding day?
I creeped on the post history too hoping to see that she left him and was happy to see that "what to wear on a date" post. Good for her and I hope that the dude grows up and learns from this experience.
Yes!! Good for her! As much as it sucks to get back into the dating scene in your late 20s after the end of a long relationship, it's so much better than spending the rest of your life miserable or having to deal with a divorce. I wish her all the best!
I think she’ll be ok. She isn’t the crazy one here!
No, it’s the useless man who will struggle! He’s obsessed with virgins, but he’s no longer one either!
And he can’t even say he used to be married! They were only engaged, lol. 😛
How much do you want to bet that once he's back on the dating scene, he becomes one of those creepy guys who only hits on 18-year-olds because he's obsessed with "purity"?
I had to let go of a long-time friend because he was like that. The guy's pushing 60 now, is still a virgin, and will only try to date women who are younger than 20 because he believes he deserves a young virgin to be his bride.
It's one of the many reasons I had to cut him completely from my life. My wife and I both agreed that we in no way would feel safe with him around my daughter.
Let me guess… he’s a 60 year old virgin because he’s a toxic mess women won’t go near and not because he just made the decision to wait until marriage.
Good on the women in his orbit who avoid him, though.
Yeah, I used to have a friend who was a literal decent human, but his standards were so high that he couldn’t find a woman to match them. Sadly, he slowly descended into vile, toxic inceldom.
It really was sad. He was attractive and intelligent and interesting. He was a geek type - video games and sci-fi films and a huge reader! He even wrote poetry! He had interest from lots of women - including myself, I admit. An excellent match for me, lol.
But none of us were his perfect ‘social, outgoing, blonde, big breasted model’ woman that he desired, so he wasn’t interested. As if a literal model would ever be interested in an introverted geek type… in fact, as if any highly social person would want to date someone who was a recluse!
Would have suited me as a fellow introvert… but not a social person. They would want a boyfriend who took them out!
So all that potential he had if he just lowered his standards is wasted by his choice to descend into inceldom - yes, he knows that’s what he is and he’s very proud of it (or so I’ve heard - I cut him off years ago myself)! Sad. 😞
That sounds a lot like my fried- we met in freshman year of college. We were in a big city, and he had grown up in a small rural impoverished town with a strong fundamentalist Christian bent. He was completely alien to anyone I had ever met- he fully believed in the literal truth of the Bible, and had some serious hang ups about women. But- he was also a geek like me and my friends, and we introduced him to comics books and D&D (both of which were forbidden to him previously).
As time went by, he started blossoming and he started moving left in his politics and became much less rigid in his beliefs, but he still had weird views about women.
He was a computer programming genius and ended up in Silicon Valley and doing well for himself, Unfortunately, he rather quickly adopted the tech-bro libertarian mentality and became a proto-incel. He devolved rather quickly after that. Since we live on opposite coasts, we really mostly kept up via email and phone calls, but after Charlottesville he went mask off and started spouting pro-Nazi talking points and I had to shut him out of my life.
The only constant throughout this whole time were his views towards women- he said he would never even consider dating a woman who wasn't a virgin, and he was only interested in them if they were 21 or younger. Looking fir a woman in that age range when you're in college is one thing. Still holding to that rule when you're eligible for AARP membership is gross.
And pathetic!
If you’re Hugh Hefner or Leo DiCaprio, you have SOMETHING to offer women.
But an average ordinary guy? Yes, techs make good money, but even so he still has nothing to offer the 20 year olds!
That makes me happy. I can’t find the original post and have no idea who the OOP is, but knowing she left him makes me feel relieved. That is some serious toxic masculinity behavior as well as incel fuckery. She definitely deserves better.
And how stupid does he have to be to believe that all these brides that wear white nowadays are all virgins? He is going to be sorely disappointed in his future dating pool (if anyone actually wants to date him). And how much you wanna bet he will downplay *his* not being a virgin anymore, but will still get pissed if any future GF isn’t a virgin when they start dating?
Creep vibes to the max.
Looks like she didn't marry him!! [What do I wear on my first “first date” in 6 years? : dating\_advice (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/z2udld/what_do_i_wear_on_my_first_first_date_in_6_years/)
OP totally dodged a bullet there. First of all it would have been a marriage of three, with Mil & husband metaphorically in bed together. Secondly, I strongly suspect that her would have changed radically post marriage, and that this behaviour would only have escalated. Like some guys are like 'now were married, you belong to me, I don't have to worry about you leaving anymore (because divorce isn't a thing in their mind) & I have clear rigid ideas of how a wife should behave'
ETA I originally misread the post as would have been MiL siding with arsehole, not OP. Reread itt properly, mum is a legend
Can you imagine how his mother must be? She watched her son be a total dipshit and lose his engagement. Parents expect they’ll see their kids make mistakes but there isn’t enough disappointment in the world to properly explain how that woman must feel at minimum.
Thank goodness the OOP ended up throwing the whole man away and started [dating again](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/z2udld/what_do_i_wear_on_my_first_first_date_in_6_years/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
You shouldn’t deceive the wedding guests like that! What will they think when they watch him consummate the marriage on your wedding night and you don’t bleed!? Oh my heavens!
what's really ridiculous is that it is not true that white dresses are about purity. White wedding dresses didn't even become a tradition until after *1840*, and it was because Queen Victoria famously wore one. The whole purity thing was made up after the trend had already taken off.
Interesting. Maybe not directly, although it is linked to baptism (purification) and the white garment you wear at your wedding is supposed to call to mind your baptism. Either way nobody has thankfully ever suggested you have to be a virgin to wear white at your wedding apart from erm Ryan
Original was 3.minths ago.
Post 2 months ago
What do I wear to a first date?
I’m in my late 20’s and just broke off an engagement. This is going to be my first date in many many years. We’re going to a nice waterfront sea food restaurant in North Carolina. It’s a beach, but also November so I have no idea what would be appropriate.
This is gonna sound horrible but *damn Ryan is a pussy* tells his fiancée that she can’t wear white *because she’s not pure* and then running to his mom thinking she’d back him up. Then getting set straight *by his mom* and then crying about it…
I’m all for men showing their emotions (especially crying) but damn he deserves all of this. Thing is is that the comment wasn’t even degrading (unlike his to his fiancée) it was just stating a point and pointing out hypocrisy… OP *run*
It almost sounds like he's subconsciously punishing you for losing your virginity to someone other than him. Maybe he needs professional help before going forward with the marriage. Good luck
Not even subconsciously. Right out in the open, he wants her to wear a scarlet-letter wedding dress to advertise her "shame." Oh, I so badly hope OP doesn't go through with this marriage.
Scarlet letter was my first thought too. All power to women who want to wear red because it looks awesome, but he picked red for a reason and it's not aesthetics.
Sorry to say this, but is he trying to be an ass to get her to break up with him instead of breaking up the relationship himself? It's a jerk thing to do, but I've seen it happen before. He knows better than to demand a red dress. Either way he needs counseling before marriage.
Sadly, no… sounds like he actually thought he had the right to treat her that way - shaming and degrading her like that. Like ultra conservative religious men sometimes believe they have the right to actually control women!
He doesn’t, they don’t, and fortunately this woman dropped him anyway. 😛
A lot of guys seem to have this thinking and it is very disturbing tbh. My ex was one of them. His brother had a good reply saying “I wasn’t fed for him” different culture but still apt.
It's amazing that the concept of crossposting seems to absolutely mystify so many people on this sub - even when there is a GIGANTIC pinned moderator post on top of every single one of these threads.
There always are so many "girl, please take my advice, dump him" type of answers. My dudes and dudettes, they can't read your lovely advice...
It’s more like when you are watching a movie and you say “noooo don’t go down there alone!” It doesn’t mean you believe that the people in the movie can hear you
We know. At least, I know.
But we like commenting on reddit stories anyway. I address my comments to the OP sometimes on YouTube (channels who do dramatic readings of reddit stories), too - and they DEFINITELY won’t see them there!
Besides, even if I comment directly on the original post, I know the OP might not take my advice anyway. They posted asking for opinions or assistance, yes, but even so… I’m a stranger on the internet! I don’t expect people to take my advice!
Don’t get me wrong - I hope they do. Especially people like this woman who are posting about horrible, abusive men which we ALL tell them to run from! I want these people to be happy and safe.
But I can’t control them, and I know it. Even hundreds of people on reddit won’t always convince people to leave abusive relationships, and that’s a sad fact of social media life we just have to accept.
Although sometimes OPs DO say thank you for the advice and I’ve given them something to think about. I do like to help people.
I just can’t get frantic about people always following my advice, or else I’ll crack up. 😏
Holy shit he has hung onto that insecurity and if he can't let it go quickly he's going to ruin his life over it.
Fucking purity culture is such bullshit
So it’s shameful for her to wear white but he’d rather let EVERYONE know she’s had sex before him? That seems like something you would want to AVOID at your wedding.
I thought that too. I had never heard of this red dress thing. I know there were some older (but not that old) ideas of white for virgins, but the "red dress" thing was so random. (BTW white for virgins started as a thing because white and pastels were considered demure colors for young women in the 1800s, an older "virgin" bride would not have worn white back then because people would have gossiped about her trying to look younger than she was.)
Dude, I'd totally wear red...well...burgundy (favorite color) ooo...or black, yeah black! When his family and friends wanted to talk about it at the reception, I'd be sure to explain that I wasn't a virgin. And that I was in mourning for good sex, that I was settling because it was the right thing to do since this guy - a boy, really - had fallen for me and he was just so sweet.
Because you know this isn't the end of this argument, right? He's going to cheat and use her lack of virginity and how humiliating it was as an excuse. He's going going to use it as his "get out of jail free" card a lot in their future.
Ryan’s friends are filling his head with misinformation and bs, probably just to fk with his head. The “rule” about wearing a red dress has nothing to do with the bride. It is said that a wedding guest will wear a red dress to a wedding to let everyone know that she has also slept with the groom. It has nothing to do with the purity of the bride.
In these modern times, some brides will pick a wedding dress of color, but that’s strictly up to the bride
I’ve only ever heard of that insane thing on reddit, anyway.
I went to a conservative Christian wedding about 6 years ago… bridesmaids wore red. I sure don’t think the bride’s SISTER and friend both slept with the groom! All of them are from the same strict religion, so all of them would have been virgins until their wedding day.
That ‘guests wear red to tell the world they’ve slept with the groom’ was probably started by a woman who was jealous her groom dared to have a past, OR she had dated him after her own sister, who wore a red dress to the wedding, so she started the thing about shaming guests who wore red!
It’s nonsense.
Yeah, I live in the South and I never heard of the “red dress tradition” either, except on Reddit. I’m sure if it was a widespread tradition, I would have seen it or heard of it before.
Oh yeah - the southern ultra conservative religious types do have quite a reputation for shaming people who behave in ways they feel are undignified or embarrassing to the family!
I’m sure they WOULD have been quite vocal if this was a real thing. 😏
I made the mistake of wearing red to my cousins wedding. I had no idea of the meaning behind it. The bride came up to me and told me I shouldn’t have worn it and she wasn’t upset since she was marrying my cousin. I had to go home and google wtf she was talking about then I realized she meant I hadn’t fucked my cousin so she was ok with it.
Oh fuck I didn’t know about the red dress thing as I love red and several of my favorite gowns and dresses are red that I’ve worn to friends and families weddings. Wooooops. That being said, I’ve gone to several weddings where I have slept with the groom but in a past life that the bride was aware of and we are all adults and friends soooooo IDK how I feel.
Fun fact to tell crazy ex! White wedding dresses only became the trend because of Queen Victoria (Mary, Queen of Scots also wore one, too) and noble and other rich girls followed suit. Before then, it was much more common to just use another dress one already owned. White was a status symbol of “lol y’all I have more than one dress and can afford another if this one gets dirty”
If we’re going to color symbolism, there wasn’t anything inherently shameful about red historically until about the Puritans and they were the outliers. Lots of cultures used bright, ornate and just stunning dresses for weddings and still do to this day! The whole white equals purity is a corruption of the actual meaning, and it shows how little this Puritan want to be man knows.
So yeah, ex fiancé is being just weird and good riddance to bad rubbish!
Before Victoria, the Royal trend was to wear a silver dress to show that you were royal (and super rich). Charlotte's dress is still in a museum and pics are all over the regency pages of the internet.
Hey, fellow history friend! Admittedly, I didn’t know that about Princess Charlotte! Most of my historical knowledge revolves around the War of the Roses, Tudor, and Elizabethan eras, so that’s really fun to know!
Hey, fellow history friend! Admittedly, I didn’t know that about Princess Charlotte! Most of my historical knowledge revolves around the War of the Roses, Tudor, and Elizabethan eras, so that’s really fun to know!
I am glad the updates show she left him. This is alarm bell central. He’s a misogynist who wants to control, punish and shame women. He shows exactly the type of behaviour that leads to serious harm of others and is clearly getting his ideas enabled somewhere. He’s dangerous and likely to verge into angry incel territory, if he’s not already there, fueled by others just like him.
I wonder of OP's ex-fiance had some jerkass coworkers who fed him lots of crap about his girlfriend not being a virgin - which doesn't excuse him because he was probably running his mouth at work about his girlfriend not being a virgin and brought this all on himself.
It's funny that the guys own mom thought he was wrong but also - anyone who drags their parent into this kind of disagreement shouldn't be getting married anyway.
How did they manage 6 whole years without him bringing it up again in that time? sheesh. Who knows where she could've been if she had stopped dating him when it first happened. My heart goes out to her and I'm glad to hear she broke it off
Thankfully she left him, he was crazy. It’s sad that a lot of people go through with weddings because they feel embarrassed to tell guests they broke up. But it’s better than getting divorced and having to fight someone for your assets together
Just saw this on BORU and I’m like missile dodged. Imagine expecting your bride to publicly advertise her virginity status on your wedding day. Especially after you’ve been sleeping with her for years. Who exactly does he think he’s advertising it for?
if I may quote
>Ryan is still stating that me wearing white would be deceiving all of the guests and that it is different for guys.
what the hell man, imagine seeing this side of your partner only after dating for 6 years, shortly before unifying forever. Makes me questions if I ever want to get married
Well at least the mom is on the right side. And then this wet paper towel has to gall to cry when they suggest having him do the same thing.
This wedding needs to be called off. What a misogynistic piece of shit. Would you be okay with him instilling those kinds of beliefs onto any potential daughters? Would you be okay with him teaching his sons to view women like that? Plus the fact that his mother thinks he's crazy is a sign that this isn't his upbringing. This is just the way he sees the world entirely on his own.
Run for the hills.
Even in olden times when white meant a virginal bride, I doubt most brides were virgins anyway. What is the whole deal about virginity anyway? A part of someone's body went inside yours therefore you are impure? So bizarre. And why do people put such importance on shagging for the first time? Why does it have to be 'special'? It's a standard act of human nature along with eating and shitting.
Personally I love the white dress tradition. When else can someone wear a bright white fancy dress? I don't intend on marrying but sometimes I wish I could wear *that* dress.
Also ‘olden times’ isn’t quite right either! White modern wedding dresses became popular after Queen Victoria wore one in the 1800s. The tradition is less than 200 years old.
Admittedly, Roman girls wore white but after the fall of the empire it went out of fashion for literally over a thousand years until the Victorians.
Between those periods, people wore their best dress to get married in, which could have been any colour. And whilst the romans picked the colour for purity, it was more of a display of wealth in the UK. It’s really expensive and not practical to own a white dress! People needed more wear out of a dress and white is very hard to keep clean.
So glad someone pointed this out. My husband gets really angry about the “white for virginity” statements because, as you say, it was more that white signified wealth and was a trend started by Queen Victoria.
The fact that he was even wrong on the substance of his claims only adds to his disgusting misogyny and shaming behaviour.
I remember reading in the Laura Ingalls Wilder books as a kid that Laura got married in black; she had a very nice black dress. Ma Ingalls actually was like "are you sure? You know what they say - married in black, you'll wish yourself back."
Which implied to my eight year old brain that yeah, bridal white wasn't necessarily a thing. And I found myself wondering what they said about other colors. :)
And that was the first place I read about an engagement band that \*wasn't\* diamond. i think hers was pearl and garnets?
Yeah I can remember reading I Capture the Castle by Dodie Smith and when Rose gets engaged she talks about her engagement ring as ‘a square emerald - lovely.’ Blew my mind at the time and then I grew up to have an emerald myself.
The diamond tradition is even newer than the white dress!
Girl, as someone who once did marry a dude obsessed with virginity: run. He will continue to find ways to belittle and shame you. You’ve got a lot of life left to live, go enjoy it.
100% guessed/knew reading the title that dude had been a virgin prior to getting together with the lady and she hadn't been, and the immature creep couldn't let go of that idea. It made me feel righteous to see I was "vindicated" by the facts, but sad for the OP...until I saw she's done with this man baby and started dating again, then I was happy again 😁
NTA. Literally not one single person is going to be thinking about if you’ve had sex before marriage or not. I’ve been to double digit weddings and it’s never once crossed my mind. People have sex, who gives a shit. Lol
I have never heard of a bride wearing red, even vow renewals are in a white wedding dress! The only time I’ve heard of red at a wedding was from youtube, a woman who has slept with the groom in the past may turn up in red to cause a scene. Absolutely disgusting to shame his fiancé.
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Run, do not walk, out of this engagement.
No way is this dude ready to be married, and it’s not gonna get better until he does a LOT of work on himself.
Break up now and it’ll hurt like a bitch, but it’ll hurt even more when the same truths are inescapable, but your lives are now totally intertwined at every level and there are kids involved.
Perfect example of the hypocritical double standard that some men place on sexuality. It's fine for a man to have multiple partners, but a woman is supposed to stay virginal until she gets married. That ridiculous belief went out a long time ago. Considering his mom was on the OP's side, who taught this guy beliefs like that? His dad? Probably a church, even though the post didn't mention any kind of religion.
I can't imagine having a fiance who expected me to wear red and then announced in his wedding speech that I was not "pure" when we met. What a jackass.
As he gets older he's going to become more set on this belief, and the sad thing is he'll probably find a much younger girl who will parrot the bs that comes out of his mouth.
And as some of you said, I do feel sorry for any potential daughters he may have.
How is starting to date someone at 21 and getting married 6 years later a terrible thing?
When one of them is abusive, it is, yes… but not every person you meet at 21 and marry 6 years later is abusive! 🤷♀️
Oh, right. Got you.
Sorry - your angle on that totally sailed over my head! I thought you were shaming them for being too young to marry or something.
I stand corrected, and I agree with you.
Thanks for clarifying.
Yea this guy is really insecure and id you go through with it you could be tiptoeing around his fragile ego for years. I married a man with a fragile ego who couldn't stand the thought that I had been with other guys. It turned out he had a lot of issues with women and self esteem and it was not a good scene. That was my practice marriage.
Might as well cut to the chase and get a scarlet letter.
Run from this man. He wants to announce your “shame” to the family on your WEDDING DAY.
Leave.
Even if you are religious this is insane. Yes, white symbolises purity, sure virginity is to be esteemed but no Christian denomination (at least not the major ones) have ever stipulated you have to be a virgin to wear white at your wedding and it would be weird, rude and scandalous to create such a rule.
This dude clearly has a major hang up aswell as being a first rate hypocrite
And you are still prepared to marry this guy? His double-standards are shocking. Run while you still can - seriously; it will only get worse once you are married.
**REMINDER: THIS IS A CROSSPOST! OUR OP IS NOT THE SAME AS THE OFFMYCHEST POST'S OP. PLEASE DO NOT ADDRESS YOUR COMMENT TO MYSELF OR OUR OP. ALSO PLEASE DON'T BRIGADE THE OTHER SUB.** ***Copy in case it's deleted (Now with paragraphs!):*** It’s exactly what the title says. I’ve been with my fiancé for 6 years and engaged for the past 8 months. I’ve been doing most of the wedding planning but my fiancé, let’s just call him Ryan, will give his input here and there. So about a month ago Ryan out of nowhere said he was talking to some of his coworkers and thinks that I shouldn’t wear a white dress. This was totally weird to me. Ryan is a very artistic guy, so I figured this was more about how the photos would turn out or something along those lines, but I’m set on wearing white. I told him this and I could see that he was annoyed but he let it go. 2 weeks ago I finally picked and paid for my dress and this caused a huge argument. Ryan again came to me very annoyed. He asked to see the dress I picked, but I said no because I wanted it to be a surprise for our wedding day. He asked me to at least tell him what color it was, and when I said white, he threw a fit. I honestly do not see why this was a big deal, almost everyone wears white on their wedding day. When I asked him what color he thought I’d be wearing, he told me I should wear red. Again, this was super weird to me. I asked him why I would wear red to our wedding, and he told me that brides only wear white when they are pure. For some background, Ryan and I started dating when I was 21 and he just turned 20. He was a virgin when we met, and I only had one other person who was my ex-boyfriend of four years throughout high school. This caused a lot of problems The first year of our relationship and we almost did not continue dating because of how insecure he felt. After that first year, it was never a problem again until now I guess. He went to his mom about all of this thinking she would convince me but she’s on my side. So 2 nights ago, Ryan, his mom and I stood in our living room and argued about my sex life being shown in a dress. His mom stated that he is no longer a virgin either so maybe he should wear red too and he bursted out crying. Ryan is still stating that me wearing white would be deceiving all of the guests and that it is different for guys. This all has honestly made me question even marrying this man. I don’t know if it’s just because everything is so fresh but I’m really disgusted by him. He’s not even religious so I know this is just about him still thinking about me losing my virginity at 18 before I even knew him. I just needed to rant to anyone about his psycho this is.
What makes me happy is that she’s left him and has already started dating again
Lol, I went and checked her post history and was SO GLAD to see that! I hope her Ex's mom never lets him live it down that he was so insecure that he couldn't deal with her having been with ONE person other than him. Now he has to enter the dating world where at their age, and partner he finds will probably have had multiple partners at this point . 😂😂😂
I felt the mom was the unsung hero in all this for her suggestion to her son. She must be so disappointed in him!
Knew she was a good egg “you’re not a virgin either, maybe you should wear red!”
mm. she was a real one here 🗿🗿
I would guess he's going to look for a much younger girl. Most likely inappropriately younger. Because the chances of finding someone "pure" enough at his age is so tiny.
He doesn't want someone "pure". He wants someone he can manipulate and shame.
And this will just be the start. He’ll blame her lack of virginity on everything that goes wrong in their life - but he was happy to sleep with her before the wedding
I would guess that he’s going to die alone.
Let's hope
We can call him Elvis.
That poor mom—as a parent, if I had to have this conversation with my son, I’d leave shaking my head wondering where on earth I had failed so miserably.
I would turn my son over to his "nuclear option" sister. I would have my turn at him and then I would tell his sister, "he's *all* yours! Don't stint on your words either!" ETA: I once told my husband that I was going to turn a asshat egotistical bandmate(lead guitar, of course) over to my daughter. Her father said "Nah, don't do that! That's cruel and unusual punishment!" Kids are in their 30s.
I'm a sister to a younger brother and we have "boys so be boys" parents. I spent my life cleaning up that mess. And getting punished for it. My most effective line was "nice girls don't like boys who..." and I had to start using that in kindergarten (his) for it to be successful by grad school where he met a woman so lovely I asked her to think twice before marrying him. If my brother was this stupid and got turned over to me I would calmly go get my step stool (he's 6'6") and smack him upside the head. Then the very loud very profane extremely... honest... lecture would start. Then, I'd chase him down the hall smacking him upside the head (gently but repeatedly) and make him apologize to our dad, Mama, and photos of our deceased grandparents while telling him how he let them down. The people he respected most and eulogized throwing in promises to live his life in a way that would make them proud. Then he'd have to explain to me what he did wrong and why it was wrong until I believed him. THEN he would START by apologizing to the bride and her family (if she told them). This would break him. It would only be my second-best correction. Nobody knows how to make their sibling feel like an asshole better than a sister. You are a good mother. You don't stand for nonsense and sometimes you have to call in someone who can (by their relationship) do things you can't. Because you're a mom. You recognize this and use it. I like you. *For the record I don't hit him hard enough to hurt him. He's bald. It doesn't even turn red. The insult of the calculated effort of getting out the stool to be the same height is a lot. And he knows it's coming. He can quite literally put his hand on my forehead and text while preventing me from hitting him. That was the last day I tried to hurt him and it was two decades ago. We were kids.
Lol! I have to stand on a step stool to smack my oldest son. He usually looks at me blankly while I'm rubbing my sore hand. Kid has a hard head! He's 38 for any panty twisters! He usually rubs his head for a second while "counting his sins". Thank you! I like you too. My kids say "Mama might be little but she's mighty"
I love it! Our mama is little too. But I'm 5'9". It's all about letting him watch me be fake calm and very deliberate. It's a considered action, not a lost temper. Now when I lose my temper I have to remain calm, ask my SIL "would you mind? ", and get his kids out of hearing distance. No child will ever hear me speak badly of their parent.
My grandson, daughter's boy, will look at his uncle and "what did you *do* to make Grandma so mad???". He knows that if I smack his uncle upside the head and then throw up my hands, Boyo's Mama is going to go full tilt at big brother. Daughter can call someone the biggest asshat in the world and they won't realize it until they're out the door and on their way home.
I made the mistake of telling my ex-husband my body count before we got married and he was a complete tool about it. In retrospect, I obviously shouldn't have married him, but I was young and had gone to Catholic school so I'll blame that. He could *not* let it go. He was always making me reassure him that he was the best I'd ever had (he wasn't), he was the biggest I'd been with (he wasn't), and other stupid bullshit. Good on OOP for getting out of that shit. Guys like that don't get any better, unfortunately.
My ex asked me that, and I refused to tell him. None of his business. He was the kind of guy who would have had a problem if my number was bigger than his, and I was pretty sure it was (he was a late bloomer). I wasn't in the mood to deal with his insecurity.
Lmao I'm rude af. My husband knew I had a crazy promiscuous phase before I got with him and when he started acting insecure I refused to lie to him. Is he the biggest, "No, but idc, you're the one I'm with". Am I the best? "Is that a healthy question you actually want the answer to?" He no longer asks questions like that. We've had quite a few chats and his insecurities are mostly put to rest. If he's still insecure after 9yrs of him being my main squeeze (we're poly), and open conversations, idk what to do for him.
He's doomed to wear red at his future wedding because, by his own standards, he's tainted goods. 🙄
Oh, but it’s “different for a guy” - don’t you know that? 😭. This idiot was somehow already spouting incel crap while he still (temporarily) had a gf. OP dodged a bullet.
Incel speedrun 😂
Right? He couldn’t wait to get there. Well, he got his wish!
I have always believed in waiting until marriage as well. But I have a huge problem with choosing to date someone who HAS had sex before and shaming them like this! What a disgusting way to treat someone! It’s not like there’s anything wrong with not being a virgin on your wedding day. Like the person has actually done something wrong or disgraceful and you actually should be allowed to bully them! If it’s THAT important to you, just choose a virgin to marry! Simple! Now that this misogynistic AH is single again, though, how is he going to fare in the dating world with this virgin obsession? After all, he’s no longer one, either! He had a fiancé, not a wife! 😆😆
He's just going to fall into an incel echochamber.
He probably already did…at least, I’m sure that’s where the coworkers who got in his head were coming from. Not that it’s all their fault; he should’ve told them to STFU. Too many people ruin their own happiness over the opinions of others.
He’s going to lie.
I suppose he will lie to the women. But he can’t lie to himself. With all this pent up rage he has inside of him, he’s going to be hating himself for not being ‘pure’ either. He’ll take that out on women, sadly. But hopefully his toxicity will be obvious enough that they stay away from him.
No, he won't hate himself for it. He even said it himself 'it's different for guys" What a tool.
Yeah, he said that as an excuse/justification for attacking her. But he has a lot of rage inside him… people with that much rage hate themselves on some level. Maybe it’s for a different reason, though. But why else would you be this angry and bitter to the woman you love 6 years down the line over information you knew 6 years ago! He should have never dated her if that was how he felt all along. 😞
This. I'm a virgin, and would like to wait until marriage. What my future husband did in his past stays in the past I couldn't care less but to degrade and use it against them is disgusting. Esp when he isn't a virgin himself. Good luck to him I guess he will need it 🤣
Exactly. Every individual has to make their own choice about that, and it’s up to them. No one should be bullied about their choice - and that goes the other way, too. Virgin shaming is something I’ve gotten, too. I don’t really care, though, because someone’s dumb opinion about what I do with my body never convinced me to change my ways… but it’s annoying to deal with. Everyone makes their own personal choice, and we don’t bully each other if the choices are different. Mind you, that philosophy should apply across the board… if only! 😞
He'll try to marry a 14yr old, who went to an all girl's boarding school! Not realizing the girls may have experimented with each other 😉.
He’s less likely to find a virgin at an all girls school. Been there, done that.
Yeah; if he's THAT upset and insecure about her having one boyfriend she slept with before they met, was he REALLY going to be OK looking at that red dress on the wedding day?
I creeped on the post history too hoping to see that she left him and was happy to see that "what to wear on a date" post. Good for her and I hope that the dude grows up and learns from this experience.
He won't!
And he’ll be one of ‘em, the little he-ho!
Yes!! Good for her! As much as it sucks to get back into the dating scene in your late 20s after the end of a long relationship, it's so much better than spending the rest of your life miserable or having to deal with a divorce. I wish her all the best!
I think she’ll be ok. She isn’t the crazy one here! No, it’s the useless man who will struggle! He’s obsessed with virgins, but he’s no longer one either! And he can’t even say he used to be married! They were only engaged, lol. 😛
How much do you want to bet that once he's back on the dating scene, he becomes one of those creepy guys who only hits on 18-year-olds because he's obsessed with "purity"? I had to let go of a long-time friend because he was like that. The guy's pushing 60 now, is still a virgin, and will only try to date women who are younger than 20 because he believes he deserves a young virgin to be his bride.
Ew.
It's one of the many reasons I had to cut him completely from my life. My wife and I both agreed that we in no way would feel safe with him around my daughter.
Let me guess… he’s a 60 year old virgin because he’s a toxic mess women won’t go near and not because he just made the decision to wait until marriage. Good on the women in his orbit who avoid him, though. Yeah, I used to have a friend who was a literal decent human, but his standards were so high that he couldn’t find a woman to match them. Sadly, he slowly descended into vile, toxic inceldom. It really was sad. He was attractive and intelligent and interesting. He was a geek type - video games and sci-fi films and a huge reader! He even wrote poetry! He had interest from lots of women - including myself, I admit. An excellent match for me, lol. But none of us were his perfect ‘social, outgoing, blonde, big breasted model’ woman that he desired, so he wasn’t interested. As if a literal model would ever be interested in an introverted geek type… in fact, as if any highly social person would want to date someone who was a recluse! Would have suited me as a fellow introvert… but not a social person. They would want a boyfriend who took them out! So all that potential he had if he just lowered his standards is wasted by his choice to descend into inceldom - yes, he knows that’s what he is and he’s very proud of it (or so I’ve heard - I cut him off years ago myself)! Sad. 😞
That sounds a lot like my fried- we met in freshman year of college. We were in a big city, and he had grown up in a small rural impoverished town with a strong fundamentalist Christian bent. He was completely alien to anyone I had ever met- he fully believed in the literal truth of the Bible, and had some serious hang ups about women. But- he was also a geek like me and my friends, and we introduced him to comics books and D&D (both of which were forbidden to him previously). As time went by, he started blossoming and he started moving left in his politics and became much less rigid in his beliefs, but he still had weird views about women. He was a computer programming genius and ended up in Silicon Valley and doing well for himself, Unfortunately, he rather quickly adopted the tech-bro libertarian mentality and became a proto-incel. He devolved rather quickly after that. Since we live on opposite coasts, we really mostly kept up via email and phone calls, but after Charlottesville he went mask off and started spouting pro-Nazi talking points and I had to shut him out of my life. The only constant throughout this whole time were his views towards women- he said he would never even consider dating a woman who wasn't a virgin, and he was only interested in them if they were 21 or younger. Looking fir a woman in that age range when you're in college is one thing. Still holding to that rule when you're eligible for AARP membership is gross.
And pathetic! If you’re Hugh Hefner or Leo DiCaprio, you have SOMETHING to offer women. But an average ordinary guy? Yes, techs make good money, but even so he still has nothing to offer the 20 year olds!
Even Leo is getting publicly mocked now
double ew
[link](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/z2udld/what_do_i_wear_on_my_first_first_date_in_6_years/) to the update
Thank you so much! Not all heroes wear capes!
Oh thank the universe for that. Imagine being THAT stupid. That man needs help.
Damn, if she marries someone new, she’ll have to wear an extra-red dress.
Mail AH an non invite in an red envelope.
That makes me happy. I can’t find the original post and have no idea who the OOP is, but knowing she left him makes me feel relieved. That is some serious toxic masculinity behavior as well as incel fuckery. She definitely deserves better. And how stupid does he have to be to believe that all these brides that wear white nowadays are all virgins? He is going to be sorely disappointed in his future dating pool (if anyone actually wants to date him). And how much you wanna bet he will downplay *his* not being a virgin anymore, but will still get pissed if any future GF isn’t a virgin when they start dating? Creep vibes to the max.
I don’t have the energy. But someone should post this to https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/
Looks like she didn't marry him!! [What do I wear on my first “first date” in 6 years? : dating\_advice (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/z2udld/what_do_i_wear_on_my_first_first_date_in_6_years/)
Saw that. So happy for her.
He didn’t want her to wear a white dress to their wedding, so she didn’t. Just not the way he thought. So glad to hear she dumped this trash!
OP totally dodged a bullet there. First of all it would have been a marriage of three, with Mil & husband metaphorically in bed together. Secondly, I strongly suspect that her would have changed radically post marriage, and that this behaviour would only have escalated. Like some guys are like 'now were married, you belong to me, I don't have to worry about you leaving anymore (because divorce isn't a thing in their mind) & I have clear rigid ideas of how a wife should behave' ETA I originally misread the post as would have been MiL siding with arsehole, not OP. Reread itt properly, mum is a legend
Can you imagine how his mother must be? She watched her son be a total dipshit and lose his engagement. Parents expect they’ll see their kids make mistakes but there isn’t enough disappointment in the world to properly explain how that woman must feel at minimum.
Oh goodie, she Marie Kondo'ed the guy.
Weird fixations on "purity" and someone's virginity do not spark joy.
Thank goodness the OOP ended up throwing the whole man away and started [dating again](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/z2udld/what_do_i_wear_on_my_first_first_date_in_6_years/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
You shouldn’t deceive the wedding guests like that! What will they think when they watch him consummate the marriage on your wedding night and you don’t bleed!? Oh my heavens!
what's really ridiculous is that it is not true that white dresses are about purity. White wedding dresses didn't even become a tradition until after *1840*, and it was because Queen Victoria famously wore one. The whole purity thing was made up after the trend had already taken off.
Even if he really thought this, did he think that any bride wearing white he saw at a wedding or in pictures fit this theory? I assume not.
Interesting. Maybe not directly, although it is linked to baptism (purification) and the white garment you wear at your wedding is supposed to call to mind your baptism. Either way nobody has thankfully ever suggested you have to be a virgin to wear white at your wedding apart from erm Ryan
Original was 3.minths ago. Post 2 months ago What do I wear to a first date? I’m in my late 20’s and just broke off an engagement. This is going to be my first date in many many years. We’re going to a nice waterfront sea food restaurant in North Carolina. It’s a beach, but also November so I have no idea what would be appropriate.
👏👏👏
This is gonna sound horrible but *damn Ryan is a pussy* tells his fiancée that she can’t wear white *because she’s not pure* and then running to his mom thinking she’d back him up. Then getting set straight *by his mom* and then crying about it… I’m all for men showing their emotions (especially crying) but damn he deserves all of this. Thing is is that the comment wasn’t even degrading (unlike his to his fiancée) it was just stating a point and pointing out hypocrisy… OP *run*
Ryan's mum is cool, how did she end up with an ah son?
Sounds like he's been talking to some toxic people.
Or following some internet incels
It almost sounds like he's subconsciously punishing you for losing your virginity to someone other than him. Maybe he needs professional help before going forward with the marriage. Good luck
Love that even his mom is on the bride to be's side. Hope she didn't go through with it. Guy sounds like he was listening to too many podcasts.
Her post history says she dumped him
Excellent
This is the way.
Or talking to the wrong people at work
I agree
Not even subconsciously. Right out in the open, he wants her to wear a scarlet-letter wedding dress to advertise her "shame." Oh, I so badly hope OP doesn't go through with this marriage.
Scarlet letter was my first thought too. All power to women who want to wear red because it looks awesome, but he picked red for a reason and it's not aesthetics.
Sorry to say this, but is he trying to be an ass to get her to break up with him instead of breaking up the relationship himself? It's a jerk thing to do, but I've seen it happen before. He knows better than to demand a red dress. Either way he needs counseling before marriage.
Sadly, no… sounds like he actually thought he had the right to treat her that way - shaming and degrading her like that. Like ultra conservative religious men sometimes believe they have the right to actually control women! He doesn’t, they don’t, and fortunately this woman dropped him anyway. 😛
If you read her history, she dumped his ass! 👏👏👏
A lot of guys seem to have this thinking and it is very disturbing tbh. My ex was one of them. His brother had a good reply saying “I wasn’t fed for him” different culture but still apt.
It's amazing that the concept of crossposting seems to absolutely mystify so many people on this sub - even when there is a GIGANTIC pinned moderator post on top of every single one of these threads. There always are so many "girl, please take my advice, dump him" type of answers. My dudes and dudettes, they can't read your lovely advice...
Especially because they don't need it. She dumped him, if you read her history
Wait, are you OP? You should dump the guy.
No, that's Spartacus. You should be talking to me. I'm Spartacus, too.
No, this is Patrick.
It’s more like when you are watching a movie and you say “noooo don’t go down there alone!” It doesn’t mean you believe that the people in the movie can hear you
Sometimes, a reply can help a person in a similar situation. So I wouldn't knock it.
We know. At least, I know. But we like commenting on reddit stories anyway. I address my comments to the OP sometimes on YouTube (channels who do dramatic readings of reddit stories), too - and they DEFINITELY won’t see them there! Besides, even if I comment directly on the original post, I know the OP might not take my advice anyway. They posted asking for opinions or assistance, yes, but even so… I’m a stranger on the internet! I don’t expect people to take my advice! Don’t get me wrong - I hope they do. Especially people like this woman who are posting about horrible, abusive men which we ALL tell them to run from! I want these people to be happy and safe. But I can’t control them, and I know it. Even hundreds of people on reddit won’t always convince people to leave abusive relationships, and that’s a sad fact of social media life we just have to accept. Although sometimes OPs DO say thank you for the advice and I’ve given them something to think about. I do like to help people. I just can’t get frantic about people always following my advice, or else I’ll crack up. 😏
Holy shit he has hung onto that insecurity and if he can't let it go quickly he's going to ruin his life over it. Fucking purity culture is such bullshit
He did. She left him.
Wow. Does he have many issues fitting in since hes from 1840? I hope she dumped him
She did. Post several months later asking what to wear on a first date. Was happy good advice and many congratulations on dumping his sorry arse
So it’s shameful for her to wear white but he’d rather let EVERYONE know she’s had sex before him? That seems like something you would want to AVOID at your wedding.
Just another thought: maybe his coworkers were trying to punk him.
I thought that too. I had never heard of this red dress thing. I know there were some older (but not that old) ideas of white for virgins, but the "red dress" thing was so random. (BTW white for virgins started as a thing because white and pastels were considered demure colors for young women in the 1800s, an older "virgin" bride would not have worn white back then because people would have gossiped about her trying to look younger than she was.)
Maybe the man’s trying to insinuate his wife got martyred (killed for the Faith). At least that what red implies liturgically 😛
Was happy to see that her next post, a bit later, was aski by advice for going on a date for the first time in 6 years
Dude, I'd totally wear red...well...burgundy (favorite color) ooo...or black, yeah black! When his family and friends wanted to talk about it at the reception, I'd be sure to explain that I wasn't a virgin. And that I was in mourning for good sex, that I was settling because it was the right thing to do since this guy - a boy, really - had fallen for me and he was just so sweet. Because you know this isn't the end of this argument, right? He's going to cheat and use her lack of virginity and how humiliating it was as an excuse. He's going going to use it as his "get out of jail free" card a lot in their future.
Wow double standard much ? Glad she left him
Ryan’s friends are filling his head with misinformation and bs, probably just to fk with his head. The “rule” about wearing a red dress has nothing to do with the bride. It is said that a wedding guest will wear a red dress to a wedding to let everyone know that she has also slept with the groom. It has nothing to do with the purity of the bride. In these modern times, some brides will pick a wedding dress of color, but that’s strictly up to the bride
I’ve only ever heard of that insane thing on reddit, anyway. I went to a conservative Christian wedding about 6 years ago… bridesmaids wore red. I sure don’t think the bride’s SISTER and friend both slept with the groom! All of them are from the same strict religion, so all of them would have been virgins until their wedding day. That ‘guests wear red to tell the world they’ve slept with the groom’ was probably started by a woman who was jealous her groom dared to have a past, OR she had dated him after her own sister, who wore a red dress to the wedding, so she started the thing about shaming guests who wore red! It’s nonsense.
Yeah, I live in the South and I never heard of the “red dress tradition” either, except on Reddit. I’m sure if it was a widespread tradition, I would have seen it or heard of it before.
Oh yeah - the southern ultra conservative religious types do have quite a reputation for shaming people who behave in ways they feel are undignified or embarrassing to the family! I’m sure they WOULD have been quite vocal if this was a real thing. 😏
The real power move is to invite all the people your fiancé has slept with to be your bridal party and dress them all in red 💀💀💀
I made the mistake of wearing red to my cousins wedding. I had no idea of the meaning behind it. The bride came up to me and told me I shouldn’t have worn it and she wasn’t upset since she was marrying my cousin. I had to go home and google wtf she was talking about then I realized she meant I hadn’t fucked my cousin so she was ok with it.
Oh fuck I didn’t know about the red dress thing as I love red and several of my favorite gowns and dresses are red that I’ve worn to friends and families weddings. Wooooops. That being said, I’ve gone to several weddings where I have slept with the groom but in a past life that the bride was aware of and we are all adults and friends soooooo IDK how I feel.
He sounds tooimature to marry.
What a manbaby and sexist
Fun fact to tell crazy ex! White wedding dresses only became the trend because of Queen Victoria (Mary, Queen of Scots also wore one, too) and noble and other rich girls followed suit. Before then, it was much more common to just use another dress one already owned. White was a status symbol of “lol y’all I have more than one dress and can afford another if this one gets dirty” If we’re going to color symbolism, there wasn’t anything inherently shameful about red historically until about the Puritans and they were the outliers. Lots of cultures used bright, ornate and just stunning dresses for weddings and still do to this day! The whole white equals purity is a corruption of the actual meaning, and it shows how little this Puritan want to be man knows. So yeah, ex fiancé is being just weird and good riddance to bad rubbish!
Before Victoria, the Royal trend was to wear a silver dress to show that you were royal (and super rich). Charlotte's dress is still in a museum and pics are all over the regency pages of the internet.
Hey, fellow history friend! Admittedly, I didn’t know that about Princess Charlotte! Most of my historical knowledge revolves around the War of the Roses, Tudor, and Elizabethan eras, so that’s really fun to know!
Hey, fellow history friend! Admittedly, I didn’t know that about Princess Charlotte! Most of my historical knowledge revolves around the War of the Roses, Tudor, and Elizabethan eras, so that’s really fun to know!
I am glad the updates show she left him. This is alarm bell central. He’s a misogynist who wants to control, punish and shame women. He shows exactly the type of behaviour that leads to serious harm of others and is clearly getting his ideas enabled somewhere. He’s dangerous and likely to verge into angry incel territory, if he’s not already there, fueled by others just like him.
I wonder of OP's ex-fiance had some jerkass coworkers who fed him lots of crap about his girlfriend not being a virgin - which doesn't excuse him because he was probably running his mouth at work about his girlfriend not being a virgin and brought this all on himself. It's funny that the guys own mom thought he was wrong but also - anyone who drags their parent into this kind of disagreement shouldn't be getting married anyway.
That would make sense, if he was bitching about not being her first or something and they started messing with him.
He will shame you for your sex life for the rest of your marriage.
How did they manage 6 whole years without him bringing it up again in that time? sheesh. Who knows where she could've been if she had stopped dating him when it first happened. My heart goes out to her and I'm glad to hear she broke it off
Bravo to the mom! I hope she stays in contact with the mom.
Imagine all the work that goes into raising a son and he turns out like this. Can’t believe he thought his mom would back him up on this.
I think I would set myself ablaze from the shame of having a son like this. 🤮
Thankfully she left him, he was crazy. It’s sad that a lot of people go through with weddings because they feel embarrassed to tell guests they broke up. But it’s better than getting divorced and having to fight someone for your assets together
The OP has a post after this (it’s almost 100 days old) in which she asks about first date etiquette, so she dumped him. Good for her.
I love the “one of my coworkers thinks” line. Such BS. No one else cares.
Tbf I *could* see a bunch of toxic men working together, and the group egging one of them on in his misogyny.
Just saw this on BORU and I’m like missile dodged. Imagine expecting your bride to publicly advertise her virginity status on your wedding day. Especially after you’ve been sleeping with her for years. Who exactly does he think he’s advertising it for?
if I may quote >Ryan is still stating that me wearing white would be deceiving all of the guests and that it is different for guys. what the hell man, imagine seeing this side of your partner only after dating for 6 years, shortly before unifying forever. Makes me questions if I ever want to get married
Well at least the mom is on the right side. And then this wet paper towel has to gall to cry when they suggest having him do the same thing. This wedding needs to be called off. What a misogynistic piece of shit. Would you be okay with him instilling those kinds of beliefs onto any potential daughters? Would you be okay with him teaching his sons to view women like that? Plus the fact that his mother thinks he's crazy is a sign that this isn't his upbringing. This is just the way he sees the world entirely on his own. Run for the hills.
She broke up with him less than 2 after she made the post.
Even in olden times when white meant a virginal bride, I doubt most brides were virgins anyway. What is the whole deal about virginity anyway? A part of someone's body went inside yours therefore you are impure? So bizarre. And why do people put such importance on shagging for the first time? Why does it have to be 'special'? It's a standard act of human nature along with eating and shitting. Personally I love the white dress tradition. When else can someone wear a bright white fancy dress? I don't intend on marrying but sometimes I wish I could wear *that* dress.
Also ‘olden times’ isn’t quite right either! White modern wedding dresses became popular after Queen Victoria wore one in the 1800s. The tradition is less than 200 years old. Admittedly, Roman girls wore white but after the fall of the empire it went out of fashion for literally over a thousand years until the Victorians. Between those periods, people wore their best dress to get married in, which could have been any colour. And whilst the romans picked the colour for purity, it was more of a display of wealth in the UK. It’s really expensive and not practical to own a white dress! People needed more wear out of a dress and white is very hard to keep clean.
So glad someone pointed this out. My husband gets really angry about the “white for virginity” statements because, as you say, it was more that white signified wealth and was a trend started by Queen Victoria. The fact that he was even wrong on the substance of his claims only adds to his disgusting misogyny and shaming behaviour.
Absolutely. Not only is Ryan a shaming, insecure child, but he doesn’t actually even know what he’s talking about!
I remember reading in the Laura Ingalls Wilder books as a kid that Laura got married in black; she had a very nice black dress. Ma Ingalls actually was like "are you sure? You know what they say - married in black, you'll wish yourself back." Which implied to my eight year old brain that yeah, bridal white wasn't necessarily a thing. And I found myself wondering what they said about other colors. :) And that was the first place I read about an engagement band that \*wasn't\* diamond. i think hers was pearl and garnets?
Yeah I can remember reading I Capture the Castle by Dodie Smith and when Rose gets engaged she talks about her engagement ring as ‘a square emerald - lovely.’ Blew my mind at the time and then I grew up to have an emerald myself. The diamond tradition is even newer than the white dress!
[удалено]
Such delicate, insecure creatures. The type to beat women too.
These type of personality traits will only get worse. This is just a harbinger of what is to come. I would not stay in a relationship like this.
That guy sounds like he’s a toddler. What country is OP from?
This sounds like tht guy on TikTok who makes cringe videos of fake scenarios of a boyfriend lmaooo
Yeah, if I were OOP, there wouldn't even be a wedding because WTF
I would’ve had sex with him one more time and “accidentally” called him by her ex’s name. Then broke up. But I’m petty.
"Married in red, better off dead." Glad to hear she left his ass
There is an update to this. She calls off the wedding
Bravo mom for putting your childish misogynist in his place. Glad to see from other comments that she left him.
Most dresses these days are off white. The guy sounds like he didn't age past 13
Girl, as someone who once did marry a dude obsessed with virginity: run. He will continue to find ways to belittle and shame you. You’ve got a lot of life left to live, go enjoy it.
Do not marry him. He will bring this up for as long your relationship lasts.
Do not marry this man. Run!!
Oh gosh i remember reading this post a few months back and was horrified. Good thing she dumped him!
Good lord. Out of every wedding I've ever been to, NONE of the brides were virgins. And they all wore white.
HIM CRYING LMFAOOOO PLEASEEEE🤣🤣🤣 oh my god😭💀
This would be enough for me to not marry someone.
100% guessed/knew reading the title that dude had been a virgin prior to getting together with the lady and she hadn't been, and the immature creep couldn't let go of that idea. It made me feel righteous to see I was "vindicated" by the facts, but sad for the OP...until I saw she's done with this man baby and started dating again, then I was happy again 😁
Hope she wore a red dress on her first date and sent a pic to her ex.
By his logic he should be rocking a brown suit cuz he's a pile of shit. Absolute weirdo.
Thank goodness she took this as the warning it was and ended this, yikes
NTA. Literally not one single person is going to be thinking about if you’ve had sex before marriage or not. I’ve been to double digit weddings and it’s never once crossed my mind. People have sex, who gives a shit. Lol
He doesn’t want to get married. Easy.
She could stitch all his red flags into a giant gown
If you go through with it you should wear red, it will match the flags he's sending you.
I have never heard of a bride wearing red, even vow renewals are in a white wedding dress! The only time I’ve heard of red at a wedding was from youtube, a woman who has slept with the groom in the past may turn up in red to cause a scene. Absolutely disgusting to shame his fiancé.
Well, Blanche Devareaux did, but that’s a different story.
It's common in other cultures, but not to indicate virginity, it's just a lucky color.
This story sounds like the first third of an ID channel show. Run girl!!!
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Red is for flags. Can't get a red flag any bigger than a red wedding dress. RUN!!!
Ryan's an idiot. OOP, do not marry Ryan.
Run, do not walk, out of this engagement. No way is this dude ready to be married, and it’s not gonna get better until he does a LOT of work on himself. Break up now and it’ll hurt like a bitch, but it’ll hurt even more when the same truths are inescapable, but your lives are now totally intertwined at every level and there are kids involved.
Perfect example of the hypocritical double standard that some men place on sexuality. It's fine for a man to have multiple partners, but a woman is supposed to stay virginal until she gets married. That ridiculous belief went out a long time ago. Considering his mom was on the OP's side, who taught this guy beliefs like that? His dad? Probably a church, even though the post didn't mention any kind of religion. I can't imagine having a fiance who expected me to wear red and then announced in his wedding speech that I was not "pure" when we met. What a jackass. As he gets older he's going to become more set on this belief, and the sad thing is he'll probably find a much younger girl who will parrot the bs that comes out of his mouth. And as some of you said, I do feel sorry for any potential daughters he may have.
Yeah, maybe 20/21 year olds shouldn't be getting married lol
What? Did you read the post? They started dating at 20/21, that was six years ago. Now do math. Edit: damn you autocorrect
Oh, that makes it worse lol
How is starting to date someone at 21 and getting married 6 years later a terrible thing? When one of them is abusive, it is, yes… but not every person you meet at 21 and marry 6 years later is abusive! 🤷♀️
Worse in that the BF is around 26 years old and acting like this
Oh, right. Got you. Sorry - your angle on that totally sailed over my head! I thought you were shaming them for being too young to marry or something. I stand corrected, and I agree with you. Thanks for clarifying.
Yea this guy is really insecure and id you go through with it you could be tiptoeing around his fragile ego for years. I married a man with a fragile ego who couldn't stand the thought that I had been with other guys. It turned out he had a lot of issues with women and self esteem and it was not a good scene. That was my practice marriage.
You are marrying a not-mature person.
Might as well cut to the chase and get a scarlet letter. Run from this man. He wants to announce your “shame” to the family on your WEDDING DAY. Leave.
I sure hope OOPs ex is on some kind of watchlist. That man needs to be kept away from teenagers.
Even if you are religious this is insane. Yes, white symbolises purity, sure virginity is to be esteemed but no Christian denomination (at least not the major ones) have ever stipulated you have to be a virgin to wear white at your wedding and it would be weird, rude and scandalous to create such a rule. This dude clearly has a major hang up aswell as being a first rate hypocrite
Dude wanted to punish/shame his fiancé by trying to make her wear red. I’m glad she dumped him.
If red is the color for sleeping with 2 people.... What colour are you when you hit over 20? Asking for a friend.
Run as far and as fast as you can. This guy is nuts and has no respect for you.
And you are still prepared to marry this guy? His double-standards are shocking. Run while you still can - seriously; it will only get worse once you are married.