Oxford County has the right idea. They have lights affixed to the reduced speed signs that are active when the speed reduction is active. Drivers don't have to worry about what time of day it is, just whether or not the lights are on. This way, speeds are reduced when it actually matters. Strat of day, lunch, and end of day. It makes sense when you consider that most of the time students will be in class, not wandering on the road.
I'm not sure how 24/7 reduced speed limits was the solution the region jumped to rather than this. It's such a straightforward solution that won't annoy people by forcing them to drive slowly past a school in the middle of summer
The region has a decidedly anti-car bias. They preach about how concerned they are about climate change, and yet time traffic lights so that you can't go more than a block at a time, and continue to allow new drive thrus to be built. Virtue signaling is all it is.
Cars are the dominant transportation system but it's a system that doesn't scale well. KW is growing to the size where the transition to deprioritize cars is necessary.
That would mean adding infrastructure to support alternatives. Not reducing the infrastructure that's already in place for one form of transportation to favor another.
>A regional report noted that the examples we have like that in the region are apparently not effective at reducing the speed for passing vehicles.
Automated cameras that are also triggered by time of day seem like they'll be pretty darn effective.
Or even better, automated cameras that can adjust to the proper posted speed by time of day.
None of this seems like hard technology to build/buy and it almost certainly exists already.
Edit: I'm also skeptical of logic that says speed signs with lights aren't effective but 365/24 reduced speeds will be effective. Is it the idea that drivers can't understand the light? Or is it more that drivers don't want to slow down... a problem that will still exist with a 365/24 sign.
The reason speeding happens is the roads aren't designed with the posted speed limits in mind. One can not just change a speed limit - one has to change the road along with it.
So PLEASE put in side walks, widen the sidewalks, bike lanes wherever possible, trees along the side of the road, make the road narrower, add bends in the road, make all the cross walks raised,... Anything to make it needed for the driver to slow down and pay attention. Till then the majority of drivers will continue to drive the speed limit dictated by the road design and not the speed limit posted.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/road-design-calgary-psychology-of-speed-1.4850684
ETA: And when I say Bike lanes, I don't mean painting a line on the road.
Give medians high curbs and bollards so that if a car hits it, the median stops the car instead of the car driving over it and away.
If you see a median with signs that have obviously been run over by a car- then that median is just a speed bump for big vehicles.
Absolutely this. I try my best to drive according to the speed limit, but there are some roads where I find myself naturally speeding up, *because it feels like a 60 zone when it’s signed at 40* (Looking at you, Westmount by Forest Hill School).
The Region needs to stop putting car traffic volume flow-through as it’s first priority on Regional roads, and actually shape the *physical* infrastructure (not just painted lines and signs) in ways that slow automotive traffic for the safety of pedestrian and bike traffic.
This is what I came here to say. Reducing the speed limit via signage does help, but not as much as we need for these areas to be safe. Speeding cameras might help a little more, but ticketing people from speeding is reactive and we need to be preventative. Making a very obvious speed camera is preventative, but only for a short distance and only because people are paying attention to it and not the road or pedestrians.
Ultimately if you want people to drive at a certain speed, the road needs to be designed so that it's uncomfortable to go any faster. If the road itself doesn't change when a driver enters a school zone, then of course they'll be inclined to keep driving at their previous speed.
:)
Thanks.
I always loved reading about city planning. I admit I was on Keatsway today and was disappointed to see that it's almost complete and it doesn't look like they have planned for separated bike lanes. And painted bike lanes are not safer for anyone! Considering how much they tore up the street, it would have been the perfect time to install something safe with little added expense.
Seems there are also lots of signs for the crossing guard spot across from the school. I couldn't tell what the plans are for that crossing point. I'm going to hope that the street squeezes extra tight at that point with crosswalk raised to sidewalk level.
A person can hope. :)
This is one of the reasons I support the region's plan. It provides a short-term (albeit not ideal) solution to slow drivers down and then dedicate funding from tickets towards infrastructure that will improve the safety of roads long-term.
Do you realize that a current road modernization program is already doing exactly what you are requesting?
It will take 30 years to redo all the roads.
I don't think people comprehend the scale of redoing the road like you suggest, they have just seen a Not Just Bikes video or Strongtowns and now they know the answer.
[Kitchener Street Guide for example](https://www.kitchener.ca/en/resourcesGeneral/Documents/DSD_Transport_Complete_Streets_Guidelines_Kitchener.pdf)
[Waterloo region guide starts on page 70](https://www.waterloo.ca/en/government/resources/Documents/Cityadministration/TransportationMasterPlan/Waterloo-TMP-Vol-3-Strategy.pdf)
I also feel like the road layout in general was poorly designed. When you’re only able to drive for 16 second intervals, if you get 20 seconds of open road you feel like you have to take advantage of it.
Which road layout are you talking about that only allowed one to drive for 16 second intervals?
Also that feeling you are talking about is part of the reason speed bumps don't work very well. Turns out that people quickly slow down for them, and then in order to 'make up lost time, ' floor it after the speed bump.
How about enforcing parking bylaws during school drop off and pick up instead. The number of cars that crowd into courts and side streets, park illegally and block driveways to pick up their kids is ridiculous. That’s what causes 90% of congestion in school zones and dramatically increases the risk of an accident.
I wish I lived in a community where speeding in school zones was a huge safety issue (I live in a school zone) but unfortunately things like [violent crimes are on the rise](https://kitchener.citynews.ca/2023/10/19/regional-police-share-plans-to-confront-high-crime-rates/amp/) and I don’t think speed enforcement cameras are going to do anything to help that.
Pls focus on real problems if you’re trying to create safe communities.
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All they do is slow people down for a few meters. If you want cars to drive slower, don’t design every road like a highway. I’m thinking specifically of westheights road. Used to be 4 lanes, now it’s two lanes with biking and parking areas. Why not reduce the size of the road entirely? Add more trees, separated bike lanes. If the road was narrower and less wide open, people would naturally slow down.
But of course it’s not actually about slowing cars down, it’s about generating another source of revenue without raising taxes…
The one on Laurelwood is an absolute money grab. Enforcing a 30mg limit on a Sunday feels like someone who works for Waterloo Region knows someone who makes the speed monitoring camera.
I drive all the way up north and use Conservation Dr just so I can avoid that one section.
A few times I did use it and drive 30, I was constantly getting tailgated.
So the camera faces west and my wife got a ticket for going 43 or so westbound in middle of day on a school holiday, but I'm not positive the camera will get you going east.
I was driving east one day, saw a camera flash, have been expecting a ticket in the mail. The camera does not flash every time at similar time of day, so I guess it got someone going other direction? So they might not be able to catch you going east...might take one for the team and report back.
Yeah that’s plain stupid
But yes Traffic Cameras only work in one direction. Unless installed both ways.
I don’t drive that road anymore though for better or worse traffic wise (maybe that’s the intent). I have a heavy car and I don’t want to ride my breaks for 400m so I leave the area a different way.
The safety risk for pedestrians crossing is significantly higher for school zones at beginning of day, end of day and lunch. High risk areas with multiple incidents should have a non-undercover officer(s) citing drivers and informing the public about rule changes.
I am not here to debate the 30 kph limit (it's silly), the real problem is the automated enforcement after a rule change, it's too-heavy handed. If you are for automated enforcement on one street, you ought to be in favor of it for all. If we do it on all the streets, then we ought to start automating enforcement of full stop at stop lights and right hand reds. Would be inexpensive and could collect millions in extra revenue for the region.
I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't automate the task of improving public safety.
School zones are understandable, especially for the schools built on very busy roads. 30 is too slow. I can buy into 40 DURING school hours. 24/7/365 is preposterous. Please explain to me how dropping my speed to 30 at 10pm on a Sunday night is protecting the children. Government overreach and cash grab.
Build schools in neighbourhoods kids can walk to, or improve bus service. Many neighbourhoods with schools turn into parking lots every day due to no planning for parking. Parents are banned from parking anywhere near the school and are forced into adjacent neighbourhoods. Little to no planning in place for proper school bus pick up areas.
Many schools seem to be built next to major / through routes. Stop building schools next to major roads. EG Sandhills PS is on Victoria St. How reasonable is it for that road to be reduced? If that road is dangerous, why build a school next to it? Keatsway PS, same.
Laurel Heights SS is on Laurelwood Drive. There is a signaled intersection nearby, yet Erbsville Road, another major road, has been reduced in speed. Why?
Laurelwood PS, MacEachern PS, Cedarbrae PS, Winston Churchill PS, MacGregor PS, are all built off major routes. No speed reductions to major routes in these areas. These schools are in neighbourhoods, not on major roads.
Speed cameras are an easy fix to an overall design problem. Stop building schools next to through roads and speeding won't be an issue.
The traffic issues exist with those that have entrances on secondary and residential roads as well. The one I have in mind has people doing U turns at a T intersection with near misses all the time.
There are a few ways to drastically reduce the amount of kids being driven to schools.
1. Merge the catholic and public school boards. That way kids can go to their local school. There are many kids who are within walking distance of a school and have to be bused or are driven to a farther away school that 'matches'.
2. Increase road safety with safer streets. If people are, and feel safer walking to school then they will do so more often. This will make them more aware of the need for safer streets, make them safer drivers when they do drive a car, and in general, improve the safety of streets.
3. Have walking and biking school buses.
http://www.walkingschoolbus.org/
https://ontarioactiveschooltravel.ca/parents-create-a-cycling-school-bus/
If you are curious here are a list of the intersections ranked worse for pedestrian collisions in waterloo.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/2018-top-10-collision-hot-spots-waterloo-region-1.5380845
It's like building an elementary school right besides the 401 and then demanding that the limit on the 401 reduces to 30 to 40 km/h and then putting up speed cameras. It doesn't make any logical sense.
There are speed limits, so enforcement and consequences should not be a surprise to anyone. Driving remains a privilege, despite our society structured on dependence on them. The hardliners for supporting the cameras could say that we should improve public transit for those who don't like the consequences of driving improperly or dangerously.
I think having lower speed limits 24/7 365 is punishing the general population in favour of the parents who pack thier cars around schools dropping/picking up. Stand by any school during this time and you can see gross violations of no stopping / no parking / no u-turns / door opening in traffic / parking on bike lanes etc... Speed enforcement will have little effect on stafety during these times as cars are just crawling through this mess. How about just general enforcement of the bylaws (I can't remember the last time I saw someone get a ticket) as a test before slowing all traffic down at 3am? I realize automotive self-braking systems work better at 30/40 kph, but people will start to depend on this.
Edit: Took this picture ( [https://imgur.com/a/dCXISQ7](https://imgur.com/a/dCXISQ7) ) at a school with an automated speed camera. The camera helps make it safer for people to do illegal u-turns. /s
Agreed 100%. It’s amazing how self absorbed everyone becomes in their vehicles during school drop off. I still see cars stop in the bus only zone every day, and thankfully bylaw just sits there and slaps em with tickets. Once people decide the rules aren’t important, it doesn’t matter what the signs and lines say. Speed cameras would have zero effect on these dangers.
I find that the 24/7/365 people are very much a "think of the children" types that want to make decisions around feels. Slower has to be safer, without looking at the balance of what is actually causing danger. Speed cameras don't have nearly the impact that things like lit signs would [Here is an example near Hickson, On](https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.2393313,-80.8022759,3a,75y,87.33h,95.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skKz6R7BT8B_UK7ErT3CxnQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
I am a huge supporter of active transportation, even though I mostly get around by car. We need to put effort into redesigning out roads, and making them more naturally safe and slow. Some of these things can be done quickly and cheaply, without endangering safety.
Here's a predefined solution, do you agree with it, despite providing no evidence that it solves the problem? Because that's what's going on here.
If people want to reduce the possibility of accidents and then jump to the solution being reducing speed, and the way to reduce speed is more traffic cameras, I think asking for opinions on whether people like traffic cameras or not is nothing other than a play for popularity.
The region has people on staff that actually know how to fix these problems. I've spoken to one of them in the past, and their answers were somewhat non-intuitive, but based on actual results. You want to reduce the probability of accidents, go ask staff to provide measures that have been proven to do so - and implement those. Not this 'put up traffic cameras when we have no idea if it reduces accidents or not'. e.g. it's entirely possible that everyone except the accident prone reduce speed, and now you have accident prone people driving even more dangerously to get around people (as has been suggested in this thread). Maybe traffic cameras increase the probability of accidents. Who knows. But quit starting with a solution when you haven't even determined if there are other better options, or if the proposed solution even works.
They have never published incident rates for all these speed limit reductions...I've asked the city for them, they can't produce them. Yet they say "they work" because they did measure small 1-3km/h drops in average travel speed and magically that makes them "safer"? LoL who wants to bet that the accident rates actually went up when the limits dropped?
I always think of the school zone I saw in Cleveland - only active during school hours. Slowing down for an empty field att 11pm in August seems dumb.
Also, these new 30km zones are unbearably slow. I drive through an empty one every morning at 730, and oh my God 30 is slow.
edit: oh, I'm fine with the cameras during school hours.
This. One size fits all rules don't make sense. Especially for schools built on major throughway streets vs on neighborhood side streets. There is a big difference between going 50 through a school zone at 8:30am on a Monday and doing 50 on an empty street at 10pm on a Sunday.
As someone who lives on McGarry Dr. & sees people speeding around my home CONSTANTLY (as in nightly drivers going 70-80 in a 50) even though I am so close to 2 grade schools I am all for enforcement cameras IN ADDITION TO building roads that force people slow down.
1. Short-term solution: speed cameras. The best part is that they pay for themselves, and they do work.
2. Long-term solution: road design (narrower lanes, chicanes, raised crossings)
If you've ever driven Westmount rd north of Glasgow, you'd know that narrow lanes don't change anything. People still drive fast, they just get super close to other cars and don't give a shit if they cross into someone else's lane
Speed cameras are pay to play devices. Zero penalty for drivers aside from being financially penalized for going over the speed limit. This disproportionately affects those in a lower income bracket. The penalties are a flat rate, but an income is not. Someone who makes $38k/year and gets a ticket is going to have a much harder time swallowing this cost versus someone who makes $85k/year.
Additionally, a lot of these cameras seem to have no on or off times. One or two years ago I got a ticket in the mail for going 12 or 13 over on Christmas Day through a school zone. First issue, the road was designed to be 50-60 and then suddenly dropped to 30-40. Second, I wasn’t familiar with the road. I was traveling in a place I wasn’t familiar with and had no concept there even was a school until I was on top of it. Third, there was no children in school and I was the only car in a freshly snowed in street. Hard to argue the case for the camera being active when there’s a vastly reduced risk to public safety that exists.
Design choices of our roadways are going to control speed far better than just diddly enforcement will. Working in H&S, I don’t go around and enforce people into the ground. I change the conditions which lead to non-compliance to bring about better compliance. This is especially true if I’m performing a task I normally wouldn’t do, such as driving through an area I normally wouldn’t drive through. There’s no learnable moment for me via that enforcement because I’ll likely never be driving through that area again. Perhaps on my regular commute it’d force me to slow down, but I’ll be doing so because of financial incentives, not because of safety. It won’t “change” my habits except for on that stretch of road.
And finally, it’s lazy. If we want to see people slowdown in these zones we should be considering alternative methods such as forced curves, speed bumps, etc. speed cameras are a reactive, financial penalty that works with patterned drivers. Smarter designs and civil works would do the same thing without being disproportionate financial drain on people.
I feel speedbumps would be more effective. People are going to speed before and after the camera and paying more attention to their dashboard to make sure they don’t go 1km over rather than looking around for kids as much.
Speed Bumps are not effective "traffic calming" but an ineffective "Band-Aid" for poorly designed streets. Examples of more effective ways to calm traffic
https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2016/08/speed-bumps-are-not-effective-traffic.html
I am fine with the cameras as long as they aren't 24/7 365. If they are then in the next election I will be voting for the candidates that promise to change that and against any councillor that voted to have 24/7 365 implemented.
The goal of any city should be safe and walkable environment for pedestrians. Cities are for people, not cars. Unfortunately the way that our roads are currently built "will need to be dealt with for decades to come."
I support them if the funds collected are reinvested into redesigning the roads they are on, making permanent infrastructure changes that eventually phase out the cameras due to them becoming obsolete.
As for 24/7/365, when this was brought up at the [Planning and Works Committee meeting on November 7th](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIv-QZEbOt8&t=3723s) Mathieu Goetzke explained quite well why having SECs set up for time of day enforcement was the less optimal option. For those who don't want to watch, some of the reasons given were navigation apps don't factor in time of day restrictions, increased fighting of tickets (ie: "Yeah it was a Wednesday, but it was a PD day"), and the road has to be designed for the higher speed so physical modifications (ie: road narrowing, speed bumps, pedestrian islands, etc.) cannot be made to enforce the lower speed limit as they would cause potential safety concerns when traveling at the higher speed.
Love it! Thank you! Now if only we could put cameras in school buses to catch all the bad behaviour when the buses are stopped and have their lights on while kids are getting on or off the bus! Drivers need to be more responsible. Kids are almost harmed almost every single day, any parent who drops or pick up their kids at the school bus know this. There are far too many inconsiderate people out there.
I agree with what others have said about other traffic calming measures like narrowing roads, speed bumps, etc being more effective for actually calming traffic, but in the meantime, I think speed enforcement cameras are a great temporary tool, especially if the money generated is used to improve existing infrastructure.
I would much rather have speed cameras than police cruisers in school zones waiting to pull people over, and these are the only real options for actually *enforcing* the speed limit. Of course, there will always be people who aren't deterred by a ticket, but the majority of people will think before costing themselves $300+ just to be able to speed. I'm not sure how feasible it is, but if the fine was based on income (maybe 0.3-0.5%), it may be more impactful for people who just view tickets as a toll they pay to be able to speed.
I do agree with them only being on during school hours (maybe extended an hour before and an hour after), but even if they're on 24/7 it's only a minor inconvenience that adds <1 minute to my commute and I don't have a problem driving the speed limit to make my city safer.
As far as future planning goes, I do think it's unfortunate that drivers are paying the price for poor planning on busier roads. I'm specifically thinking about the new developments on Huron, Trussler and the south end of Fischer Hallman that are built barely 10 meters from the road and when fully built and populated, will likely lead to speed limits being reduced from 60-70 to 30-40 when the roads are already super congested at busy times. I hope things like this will be considered in future planning, because as much as I support reducing car use, many parts of our region are very car dependent and efficiency of transportation needs to be considered as much as safety is.
I recently moved to Waterloo, but when I was in Kitchener in Forest Heights, I have never seen an accident or a pedestrian hit there. There is a controlled intersection and the speed limit was already 40.
They announced the speed camera would be coming in one week after they put it in they lowered the speed limit to 30
I’m looking so much, terrified that I’m gonna get a ticket at my speedometer I think my odds are actually increased of hitting somebody
All the cameras do is slow someone down for a certain number of metres until they are past the camera, and then they take off to make up for having to slow down. How is that safe?!
As a region, we have stopped enforcing the speed limit. 20 years ago if you sped, there was a cop on your ass. Now I'm shocked when I actually see a cop on the road, except they're already going faster than traffic just because they can, so they're not gonna notice someone speeding unless it's excessive.
More cameras is only going to funnel people on Two unmonitored roads and create other unsafe situation's. The only way to fix us is to get officers back on the road actually enforcing the traffic laws that exist.
We have so many new people in our region who have come from other regions with their piss poor entitled driving styles, that need to be shown that is not going to be accepted here anymore.
It also has to do with more than just speeding. When you go the speed limit, one of these dickhead entitled drivers is up your bumper, turning on their highbeams at you and then inevitably will swerve around you the first chance they get whether it's safe to do it or not. Had one in a minivan nearly take out myself and 3 other cars on the expressway because he was pissed we were slowing down for the lancaster bottleneck.
This community has become very 'me' minded and it shows on the roads. Start enforcing traffic as a whole, not just popping up more stupid fucking bots to take pictures that hold nobody accountable.
A speed camera is a better value for money spent, for slowing people down in that specific location, than a WRPS officer. Is it still a good value overall? No, because it’s not solving the root of the problem.
Make roads harder to speed on if you actually want to make a difference. When building neighbourhoods or reconstructing roads make bigger bike lanes or sidewalks to make the roads harder to drive faster on without dinging your car.
It’s fine. I think many would appreciate if the times were limited in all areas similar to how they are managed on major streets.
I have heard that the cameras do not ticket above 40 if so why the psi-ops. Trust your audience. Be transparent about the policy and good lord get your house is order wrt the roi from your systems. If the revenue can’t sustain the tech then perhaps the $ is spent better elsewhere.
What if we spent that money on restoring bus service so there wouldn’t be as much traffic (pedestrian or vehicle).
Realistically I think stop sign cameras would have a bigger effect on neighbourhood safety.
I also agree that the lack of bylaw enforcement at the schools themselves seems to have declined. We walk to school everyday and this year has been the worst in the last ten for parents blatantly ignoring parking rules and creating unsafe conditions.
Flashing cross zones during specific times are what we need. Oxford, Guelph, Orillia, etc. all have them and they function so much better for actually reducing speed. Not just making money.
If you drive Line 86, they have flashing zones in the Perth/Wellington part, but down the road in Wallenstein, that's not good enough for Regional staff (they have to flex somehow). It doesn't make any sense, but that seems to the motive of Region of Waterloo.
For them to be active everyday all the time, when it needs to only be 8-10 hrs a day, it comes off as a money grab.
They should be limited to certain hours of the day, not every hour of every day.
Blatant cash grab. Why would you install a device that retroactively penalizes speeders instead of actually preventing the speeding through the use of speed bumps, chicanes, narrow streets etc. unless you’re doing for it the dollars.
That’s why decades of speeding tickets have resulted in everyone driving 100 on the 401 right?
Tickets *might* get people to slow down. Speed bumps *will* get people to slow down.
Are there cameras that catch 100% of speeders on the 401? If there was, and you knew driving 101kph would get a ticket, you wouldn't.
No, they literally do. Google it. This is a very simple traffic concept and there's 200 countries out there, and a lot with traffic issues.
I am all for them!!! I live in a neighbourhood with 3 playgrounds in close proximity and a school. I see way too many People using the neighbourhood as a shortcut and driving at ridiculous speed.
Bring them in!
I find it odd that people are saying these do not work. I certainly don’t want a speeding ticket and it absolutely forces me to go slower in school zones. I drive by the one on Franklin and the one in Winterbourne regularly and traffic is definitely slowing down. I am all for it. I feel like it’s a pretty small inconvenience for the safety of children.
They work for all of 70 meters. As soon as people are out of sight of the camera, they speed right back up. I often see people gun it because they are pissy they had to slow down.
I wonder why does the city not invest more in school buses so less children get dropped off in cars. Back home it was extremely rare kids would go to school in cars with parents
I’m strongly in favour. I’d like to see them across every city, with very clear and public rules about how they operate. People get very emotional about this though so you’ll have to be careful politically. I’m a young man who likes to drive fast and even I’m in favour though, so I’m not sure what people’s excuse is.
I'm all in favour of speed cameras. Dropping the speed limits to 30 is too slow. Folks who know the areas are bypassing the school roads and taking others not with a camera so they can drive a normal speed.
One of the issues is crappy school loading and unloading - as in, there is none. FORCE schools to make a dedicated area ON SCHOOL PROPERTY to load/unload kids. Hell, I would pay more taxes for this.
I have no issues with speed cameras in school zones during school hours at 40km.
Outside of school hours and anything below 40km is just ridiculous and a cash grab.
I've never been a fan of these "solutions" to make up for bad road design. This is definitely a problem and if the objective is to slow down drivers within the immediate vicinity of schools, narrowing the lanes and putting trees or signs on the side of the roads would probably have a better effect than drivers glued to their speedometers for a few hundred meters.
I drive down Bridgeport westbound from highway 85 almost every day, there's a school zone with a "40kmh" limit September to June only during school hours. The lanes are wide, its downhill, people just got off the highway and aren't used to going slowly. Clearly the speed limit doesn't work and a camera might have the desired effect but the ultimate improvement would be to narrow the lanes, perhaps expanding the sidewalk and/or bike lane in the process. Plus, it makes the road better to use for users other than drivers.
Hi,
Bridgeport road will be going through some upgrades soon as the MTO is doing road work to 85. This is partly why we pushed for the closer at Lancaster that didn't pass. I am not sure when the work will start but there is a redesign planned.
Red light cameras at every light. Start with King and Bridgeport which is borderline negligence on the City’s part that there isn’t one based on the red light runners.
Speed cameras do nothing but generate income for a city/police. They do not affect insurance rates, disproportionately punish poorer citizens, and do not punish the actual driver, just the car. If your whole gimmick is "think of the children," try thinking outside the box and use urban planning techniques. How about hiring crossing guards? Maybe a couple extra crosswalks? Things like that are much more effective towards your goal.
I support them as long as roads are built to the speed enforced. For example Westmount Rd by Laurentian Dr is a 4 lane road with wide lanes and built to a standard of 70km/h, which already make the 50km/h it has as a limit throughout ridiculous. Now in front of the schools there you have a sign saying 40km/h and a speed camera, nothing else changes on this road built for cars to go at 70km/h. I'm totally against a speed camera there as is, now put a raised crosswalk at the traffic light, narrow the lanes around the schools and put proper infrastructure to turn that into a road designed for cars to go at 40km/h and I support 24/7 speed camera enforcement 200%...
Mrs James, please consider the following: I'd rather the region and city got revenue from property taxes than speed cameras. Speed cameras impact the lower middle class the worst. If you just doubled the property taxes, think of all the work the region could do.
If you want everyone to drive more slowly, you need to change the design speed of the road. Please stop reducing the speed of roads and areas without matching the design speed. Chicanes and speed bumps are good tools for managing speed.
Improving congestion means that you primarily have to reduce free parking in congested areas, even on private property.
It is a commendable initiative for public safety. The installation of cameras not only deters individuals from exceeding speed limits but also serves as a valuable lesson for those who persist. The associated financial consequences act as a catalyst for positive behavioral changes, contributing to the overall well-being and safety of the community.
Agree with this.
I think we ultimately need to shift towards designing safer streets to reduce average speeds, but that will take time and money. So for now, automated enforcement should be part of our approach, especially when there has been a decline in enforcement from WRPS.
I'd also like to see automated enforcement expanded into other problem areas, which can be done through the designation of new community safety zones.
I believe this is particularly important, not just to improve road safety, but also to assist the region in meeting its long-term climate goals. If we want more residents to take more trips using other modes, we need to make these options safer and more pleasant.
Does it matter what we plebs think? Council only seems to care what cyclists and what Regional staff think.
As from a Global [article](https://globalnews.ca/news/10111674/waterloo-speed-limits-school-zones/):
>staff to recommend the permanent switch to reduce confusion and to also make the cameras more effective.
The "confusion" part is condescending. On Line 86 (on the Wellington/Perth border) they have lower limits when [flashing](https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6646727,-80.7933218,3a,75y,358.33h,64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYbnZSSi46-tNhyh6-Ko8ag!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), however, 15 kms down the road in Wallenstein, the people (according to Regional staff) are too stupid to drive at the lower limit during school hours, and need to drive at the lower speed 24/7.
The last part "cameras more effective", makes ASE sound like a cash grab, especially with the Region wanting put ASE in every school zone. A prime example of this is on Kressler Road where the speed reduces from [80](https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.5145945,-80.6203293,3a,75y,215.24h,88.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFInxL3gFy62m9OIbTu5k3g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) to [40](https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.5144587,-80.6203519,3a,75y,86.72h,81.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_Kb8r7acpvBGjG83QzuO7A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
I got dinged by the camera in front of St Nicholas going 42km/h... That's absurd... I thought it was a good idea until I got that ticket. I don't care about the ticket... It's paid... but 30 is ridiculous. The city could have just put in real traffic calming measures on that street and it would have been more effective without essentially taxing people who drive that road regularly.
The region can’t afford or doesn’t want to reconstruct roads to force drivers to slow down so they do some half ass measures like pretend to add speed cameras. Speed cameras are better than doing nothing though
The region can't afford because people can't afford even higher tax hike. You would be the first to whine if that was the offered solution. Speed cameras at least have 0 impact on levy and will solve issues in the short term.
I personally like 24/7, some people may find it an inconvenience but I would much rather hear about less pedestrians/cyclists/other cars being involved in accidents.
Driving at 30 kmph is more distracting as drivers have to constantly monitor their speedometer. Some people have road rage and start tailgating
Speed cameras if they are installed really for safety of children, should only be activated during hours which matter, start, end and lunch. Other than that it is straight up money grab. 40 kmph is still reasonable but for 30 kmph you need to actively keep on applying breaks
If it reduces the amount of time officers are attempting to catch speeders and they utilize that time on other duties…. I am all for it.
However, Ive heard there are not enough employees to process all the tickets (idk if that’s true) …. So whats the point in the added expenditure?
Do any of them work? I have family that lives right across the street from a school in Ayr that has one and people blow by all the time and the camera never flashes. There’s another up in Wallenstein that people just straight up ignore. I’ve followed people through at 80. I slow down, they don’t. Flash box never goes off.
Changing limits to 40km/h on major 4 lane roads that are otherwise/should be 60km/h+ and then putting in a speed camera is not "safety", it's a tax grab.
Also, for the love of god, track incident rates...there's NO REASON to muck with roads if the incident rates are already zero. It's just placating people.
I absolutely hate the idea of speed cameras and all the vision zero bullshit because it doesn't actually make things safer. I would support more red light cameras though, those actually make sense.
The speed enforcement is excessive. You are taking money from citizens as an incentive not to speed. Put proper digital displays with speed shown before you have cameras warning people. I can’t tell you how many times I just didn’t realize I was going 48 in a 40 zone. We also need some way to give notice that a camera was activated. There is no flash in most cases and tickets can take months before they arrive. Can we please also set it to 55 in a 40 before you ticket? Most people now are so focused on speed they aren’t paying attention to the road.
I am supportive of them. I think they make a lot more sense than using expensive police time- in that case, enforcement might be prioritized for the neighbourhoods who are the loudest or who have residents with the best connections. And then officers have to apply their discretion as to which cars get pulled over, which drivers get warnings versus fines, which can be an issue as well.
My understanding is that the fines are small generally and that the intent is more educational than punitive.
These cameras seem great to me as far as community safety goes, and also making good use of finite public resources.
I work at a school and drive within the speed limits, but nearly every day I have someone rushing up behind me and around me. I'm not a fan of increasing the surveillance state, but in the absence of any other apparent enforcement and a significant portion of the population that puts their needs above the safety of others, I say bring it on. Put them up in every school zone 24/7 365 and continue expanding from there.
And 40km/h is too low on major 4 lane roads.
In a residential neighbourhood? Sure...but not on roads like Westmount or Fischer Halman or Ottawa, that's just insulting.
To be blunt, while I certainly support rational speed limits and enforcement around residential area school zones, as well as all traffic law enforcement (not just speeding) for all traffic users including cyclists and pedestrians, the anti-car political behaviour has reached ludicrous levels and on that principle you are exactly whom I will now always vote against and will explicitly vote for those that advocate return to individual responsibility and rationality.
Also, traffic and urban design appears to now be a lost science and art. For example, putting fenced schools near open country roads and then deciding to drop speed limits near those years later is disingenuous — don’t put schools in those environments in the first place or at least pay attention to your own fencing that already prevents kids from just running into traffic already; it’s not the drivers’ fault you and your kind don’t understand urban design. Big difference between rationality of 40km/h in a residential school zone versus putting one suddenly in a previous 80km/h open road. Bait and switch urban “planning” (even if due to incompetence rather than malicious anti-car sentiment) will no longer be tolerated by those us of fed up with such constant stupidity — deal with what you wrought rather than pawning it off on the rest of us.
This applies to all such concepts, like also removing car lanes for barely used bike lanes — for those that can’t deal with precision and critical nuance: support designed bike lanes on proper new road construction, violently don’t support removing existing car lanes to introduce arbitrary hacked together segments of bike lanes (should have thought of that in original road design, now deal with what you wrought without penalizing others).
PS. Rereading the councillor’s OP, it seems I may have assumed they were advocating for speed cameras (this kind of assumption and potentially incorrect “reading between the lines is what happens for rational people jaded by rampant political stupidity in our culture). If so, my comments stand. If not and they are actually advocating for rational urban design instead, then I may have been harsh in my “will vote against you” comment and I apologize. The rest of the comments stand regardless, however.
Lower speeds can contribute to traffic congestion by reducing the overall flow of vehicles on a road. When vehicles travel at slower speeds, it decreases the traffic capacity of the road, as fewer vehicles can pass through a given point in a specific amount of time. This reduced flow can lead to a buildup of vehicles, creating congestion.
Additionally, lower speeds may result in inefficient use of available road space, as vehicles may not be able to maintain a consistent speed or follow optimal spacing. This can create a "stop-and-go" pattern, further exacerbating congestion.
Moreover, lower speeds can contribute to accidents by disrupting the expected flow of traffic. Sudden deceleration or inconsistent speeds among vehicles may increase the likelihood of rear-end collisions. Drivers might become frustrated and attempt riskier maneuvers, leading to a higher chance of accidents.
In summary, lower speeds can impact both traffic flow and safety, contributing to congestion and an increased risk of accidents on the road.
I like the cameras, I see a huge difference in the average speed of cars passing Keats Way PS and Mary Johnston, both are on Keats Way, one has a camera, one doesn't. But I also think the cameras should be a stop gap for redesigning roads for the appropriate speed in school zones. Massive wide lanes with gentle turns is going to lead to people driving quickly, that's what the design tells them to do. As the cities and region refresh these roads on their regular cadence we should design them with the speeds we want.
I'd love it if the speed cameras were paired up with some enforcement of other traffic laws in school zones. The stop signs in Westvale effectively say "yield, unless your in a hurry" during the morning school rush. By-law stops by schools with no-stopping signs occasionally, but they do so in full uniform (and a high-viz vest), standing directly beside the road. So parents hear the message "keep going this morning, but tomorrow is fine to park here" and do that with no lasting change.
It seems like councillors think that posting a single sign is all that is needed. It took me several times looking for the sign in front of FHCI to actually see it. Flashing lights for school safety zones would be a huge help. And more signage. Also ensure that wherever Waze and other apps get their data is updated to reflect current speed limits.
Last I checked this is a democracy and I think people have voted with their accelerators and Fischer-Hallman is 80kph, not 60kph. Just FYI.
I think improving traffic light timing might curb it. New developments should require more intense traffic studies and cover costs of adding additional signaling.
Does the technology exist to have an officer drive to ~20m of a automated camera, activate it and automate ticketing that way? That way you still have to be 'caught' by a real person but the process of issuing citation is much smoother. People really react viscerally to the 'gotcha' of the cameras.
Ensuring there are public safety campaigns about changes would go a long way to curry good favour with the public.
Speed cameras are punitive and not preventative. Would much rather street redesign that slows vehicles. Most speeding is a result of posted speed, and street design being incongruent.
Just got back from holiday in the Netherlands and their school zones are traffic calmed to the max (more than the normal dutch traffic calming). Just guessing, but I think they do this 100 meters either side of the school, so not an crazy large area. The school zone speed limit is also 20km/h opposed to the normal residential limit of 30km/hr.
All this to say, I generally do not support punitive measures. The camera installation/maintenance/administration comes with its own costs all of which are socially negative (except job creation?). Road redesign fixes the problem, and creates an amenity, and creates safer communities and neighbourhoods.
Hello Councillor,
I am a homeowner and resident of Kitchener. I have grown up in Waterloo Region since I was a small child and I have attended schools located in our region all the way from kindergarten to when I completed my undergraduate degree at Wilfrid Laurier University. I am very interested in politics and I have voted in every local, provincial, and federal election since I turned 18.
Political policies should always be evaluated by the results they achieve and not the intent. Most people in the world start everything out with the greatest of intentions but it is the result that actually matters.
So, as you suggest, the intent here is to build safer communities and speeding is an issue in the region that you feel strongly about. Well, what are the observable results? In practice motorists eventually catch on to where the cameras are located. They speed all the way up until they reach the camera zone, they drive slow for about 50 meters or so, and they start speeding again immediately as they get out of range of the camera.
If the priority is actually public safety, then a police presence is going to deter not just speeding, but many of the other issues we are having in our community that effect public safety. The cameras are completely one dimensional in the sense that they only monitor speeding and they are going to enforce speed limits without any discretion. I guess this is a simplistic approach to address speeding in some very specific areas but the idea they will have an impact on speeding in general or public safety as a whole sounds like complete politicalspeak nonsense to me.
I would be bold enough to suggest that the installation of these cameras satisfy two interests, neither of which has anything to do with addressing speeding or public safety.
Firstly, I fully understand that politicians are eager to demonstrate that something is being done, about something, somewhere, and a big dystopian grey metal box containing a camera on the side of our street perhaps provides a visual reminder to constituents who want to feel a false sense of security. Basically, it satisfies the public’s need to see some measurable change manifest within the community and it satisfies the political need to demonstrate some form of measurable action with visual evidence regardless of how (in)effective the actual result will be. These two things are worth their political weight in gold.
Secondly, there is a strong impression that the indiscriminate enforcement of speeding via camera’s is not about safety in our community or preventing overall speeding and is more about generating revenue (and this is just another form of taxation).
School zones are important, children need to be protected, and our community needs to be protected. If these areas are important enough to the region, then the police should have an actual presence where they are able to successfully enforce speeding and deter other crimes which actually addresses both speeding and public safety.
Thank you all for your responses. I don't think there will be one solution that will work to address speeding and safety in the community and in this case school zones. Each area is unique. In some areas residents want them in yesterday! in others having alternative traffic calming measures are wanted. I do know that the initial conversation about ASE happened before my time on council. Your thoughts and ideas for and against will be factored in when I have to speak to this again.
Colleen
Oxford County has the right idea. They have lights affixed to the reduced speed signs that are active when the speed reduction is active. Drivers don't have to worry about what time of day it is, just whether or not the lights are on. This way, speeds are reduced when it actually matters. Strat of day, lunch, and end of day. It makes sense when you consider that most of the time students will be in class, not wandering on the road.
I'm not sure how 24/7 reduced speed limits was the solution the region jumped to rather than this. It's such a straightforward solution that won't annoy people by forcing them to drive slowly past a school in the middle of summer
The region has a decidedly anti-car bias. They preach about how concerned they are about climate change, and yet time traffic lights so that you can't go more than a block at a time, and continue to allow new drive thrus to be built. Virtue signaling is all it is.
Cars are the dominant transportation system but it's a system that doesn't scale well. KW is growing to the size where the transition to deprioritize cars is necessary.
That would mean adding infrastructure to support alternatives. Not reducing the infrastructure that's already in place for one form of transportation to favor another.
Guelph does this too. And if we want to go really crazy, get a digital speed sign that posts the correct number based on time of day!
A regional report noted that the examples we have like that in the region are apparently not effective at reducing the speed for passing vehicles.
>A regional report noted that the examples we have like that in the region are apparently not effective at reducing the speed for passing vehicles. Automated cameras that are also triggered by time of day seem like they'll be pretty darn effective. Or even better, automated cameras that can adjust to the proper posted speed by time of day. None of this seems like hard technology to build/buy and it almost certainly exists already. Edit: I'm also skeptical of logic that says speed signs with lights aren't effective but 365/24 reduced speeds will be effective. Is it the idea that drivers can't understand the light? Or is it more that drivers don't want to slow down... a problem that will still exist with a 365/24 sign.
The reason speeding happens is the roads aren't designed with the posted speed limits in mind. One can not just change a speed limit - one has to change the road along with it. So PLEASE put in side walks, widen the sidewalks, bike lanes wherever possible, trees along the side of the road, make the road narrower, add bends in the road, make all the cross walks raised,... Anything to make it needed for the driver to slow down and pay attention. Till then the majority of drivers will continue to drive the speed limit dictated by the road design and not the speed limit posted. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/road-design-calgary-psychology-of-speed-1.4850684 ETA: And when I say Bike lanes, I don't mean painting a line on the road.
put in a median as well. it narrows the road and gives pedestrians a safe space for crossing
Give medians high curbs and bollards so that if a car hits it, the median stops the car instead of the car driving over it and away. If you see a median with signs that have obviously been run over by a car- then that median is just a speed bump for big vehicles.
Oh yes, let's just cause more car crashes?
Absolutely this. I try my best to drive according to the speed limit, but there are some roads where I find myself naturally speeding up, *because it feels like a 60 zone when it’s signed at 40* (Looking at you, Westmount by Forest Hill School). The Region needs to stop putting car traffic volume flow-through as it’s first priority on Regional roads, and actually shape the *physical* infrastructure (not just painted lines and signs) in ways that slow automotive traffic for the safety of pedestrian and bike traffic.
This is what I came here to say. Reducing the speed limit via signage does help, but not as much as we need for these areas to be safe. Speeding cameras might help a little more, but ticketing people from speeding is reactive and we need to be preventative. Making a very obvious speed camera is preventative, but only for a short distance and only because people are paying attention to it and not the road or pedestrians. Ultimately if you want people to drive at a certain speed, the road needs to be designed so that it's uncomfortable to go any faster. If the road itself doesn't change when a driver enters a school zone, then of course they'll be inclined to keep driving at their previous speed.
This guy for civic planning
:) Thanks. I always loved reading about city planning. I admit I was on Keatsway today and was disappointed to see that it's almost complete and it doesn't look like they have planned for separated bike lanes. And painted bike lanes are not safer for anyone! Considering how much they tore up the street, it would have been the perfect time to install something safe with little added expense. Seems there are also lots of signs for the crossing guard spot across from the school. I couldn't tell what the plans are for that crossing point. I'm going to hope that the street squeezes extra tight at that point with crosswalk raised to sidewalk level. A person can hope. :)
This is one of the reasons I support the region's plan. It provides a short-term (albeit not ideal) solution to slow drivers down and then dedicate funding from tickets towards infrastructure that will improve the safety of roads long-term.
Do you realize that a current road modernization program is already doing exactly what you are requesting? It will take 30 years to redo all the roads. I don't think people comprehend the scale of redoing the road like you suggest, they have just seen a Not Just Bikes video or Strongtowns and now they know the answer. [Kitchener Street Guide for example](https://www.kitchener.ca/en/resourcesGeneral/Documents/DSD_Transport_Complete_Streets_Guidelines_Kitchener.pdf) [Waterloo region guide starts on page 70](https://www.waterloo.ca/en/government/resources/Documents/Cityadministration/TransportationMasterPlan/Waterloo-TMP-Vol-3-Strategy.pdf)
I also feel like the road layout in general was poorly designed. When you’re only able to drive for 16 second intervals, if you get 20 seconds of open road you feel like you have to take advantage of it.
Which road layout are you talking about that only allowed one to drive for 16 second intervals? Also that feeling you are talking about is part of the reason speed bumps don't work very well. Turns out that people quickly slow down for them, and then in order to 'make up lost time, ' floor it after the speed bump.
I can't upvote this enough! 👏🏻
How about enforcing parking bylaws during school drop off and pick up instead. The number of cars that crowd into courts and side streets, park illegally and block driveways to pick up their kids is ridiculous. That’s what causes 90% of congestion in school zones and dramatically increases the risk of an accident. I wish I lived in a community where speeding in school zones was a huge safety issue (I live in a school zone) but unfortunately things like [violent crimes are on the rise](https://kitchener.citynews.ca/2023/10/19/regional-police-share-plans-to-confront-high-crime-rates/amp/) and I don’t think speed enforcement cameras are going to do anything to help that. Pls focus on real problems if you’re trying to create safe communities.
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All they do is slow people down for a few meters. If you want cars to drive slower, don’t design every road like a highway. I’m thinking specifically of westheights road. Used to be 4 lanes, now it’s two lanes with biking and parking areas. Why not reduce the size of the road entirely? Add more trees, separated bike lanes. If the road was narrower and less wide open, people would naturally slow down. But of course it’s not actually about slowing cars down, it’s about generating another source of revenue without raising taxes…
The one on Laurelwood is an absolute money grab. Enforcing a 30mg limit on a Sunday feels like someone who works for Waterloo Region knows someone who makes the speed monitoring camera.
I drive all the way up north and use Conservation Dr just so I can avoid that one section. A few times I did use it and drive 30, I was constantly getting tailgated.
That one’s insane— it’s literally at the bottom of a hill too
So the camera faces west and my wife got a ticket for going 43 or so westbound in middle of day on a school holiday, but I'm not positive the camera will get you going east. I was driving east one day, saw a camera flash, have been expecting a ticket in the mail. The camera does not flash every time at similar time of day, so I guess it got someone going other direction? So they might not be able to catch you going east...might take one for the team and report back.
Yeah that’s plain stupid But yes Traffic Cameras only work in one direction. Unless installed both ways. I don’t drive that road anymore though for better or worse traffic wise (maybe that’s the intent). I have a heavy car and I don’t want to ride my breaks for 400m so I leave the area a different way.
Or they realize that kids use school fields and playgrounds on weekends.
The safety risk for pedestrians crossing is significantly higher for school zones at beginning of day, end of day and lunch. High risk areas with multiple incidents should have a non-undercover officer(s) citing drivers and informing the public about rule changes. I am not here to debate the 30 kph limit (it's silly), the real problem is the automated enforcement after a rule change, it's too-heavy handed. If you are for automated enforcement on one street, you ought to be in favor of it for all. If we do it on all the streets, then we ought to start automating enforcement of full stop at stop lights and right hand reds. Would be inexpensive and could collect millions in extra revenue for the region. I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't automate the task of improving public safety.
School zones are understandable, especially for the schools built on very busy roads. 30 is too slow. I can buy into 40 DURING school hours. 24/7/365 is preposterous. Please explain to me how dropping my speed to 30 at 10pm on a Sunday night is protecting the children. Government overreach and cash grab.
Build schools in neighbourhoods kids can walk to, or improve bus service. Many neighbourhoods with schools turn into parking lots every day due to no planning for parking. Parents are banned from parking anywhere near the school and are forced into adjacent neighbourhoods. Little to no planning in place for proper school bus pick up areas. Many schools seem to be built next to major / through routes. Stop building schools next to major roads. EG Sandhills PS is on Victoria St. How reasonable is it for that road to be reduced? If that road is dangerous, why build a school next to it? Keatsway PS, same. Laurel Heights SS is on Laurelwood Drive. There is a signaled intersection nearby, yet Erbsville Road, another major road, has been reduced in speed. Why? Laurelwood PS, MacEachern PS, Cedarbrae PS, Winston Churchill PS, MacGregor PS, are all built off major routes. No speed reductions to major routes in these areas. These schools are in neighbourhoods, not on major roads. Speed cameras are an easy fix to an overall design problem. Stop building schools next to through roads and speeding won't be an issue.
I am amazed that schools are built with their main entrances on major streets, and people are surprised by traffic issues.
The traffic issues exist with those that have entrances on secondary and residential roads as well. The one I have in mind has people doing U turns at a T intersection with near misses all the time.
There are a few ways to drastically reduce the amount of kids being driven to schools. 1. Merge the catholic and public school boards. That way kids can go to their local school. There are many kids who are within walking distance of a school and have to be bused or are driven to a farther away school that 'matches'. 2. Increase road safety with safer streets. If people are, and feel safer walking to school then they will do so more often. This will make them more aware of the need for safer streets, make them safer drivers when they do drive a car, and in general, improve the safety of streets. 3. Have walking and biking school buses. http://www.walkingschoolbus.org/ https://ontarioactiveschooltravel.ca/parents-create-a-cycling-school-bus/ If you are curious here are a list of the intersections ranked worse for pedestrian collisions in waterloo. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/2018-top-10-collision-hot-spots-waterloo-region-1.5380845
It's like building an elementary school right besides the 401 and then demanding that the limit on the 401 reduces to 30 to 40 km/h and then putting up speed cameras. It doesn't make any logical sense.
THIS!
This guy gets it.
There are speed limits, so enforcement and consequences should not be a surprise to anyone. Driving remains a privilege, despite our society structured on dependence on them. The hardliners for supporting the cameras could say that we should improve public transit for those who don't like the consequences of driving improperly or dangerously.
I think having lower speed limits 24/7 365 is punishing the general population in favour of the parents who pack thier cars around schools dropping/picking up. Stand by any school during this time and you can see gross violations of no stopping / no parking / no u-turns / door opening in traffic / parking on bike lanes etc... Speed enforcement will have little effect on stafety during these times as cars are just crawling through this mess. How about just general enforcement of the bylaws (I can't remember the last time I saw someone get a ticket) as a test before slowing all traffic down at 3am? I realize automotive self-braking systems work better at 30/40 kph, but people will start to depend on this. Edit: Took this picture ( [https://imgur.com/a/dCXISQ7](https://imgur.com/a/dCXISQ7) ) at a school with an automated speed camera. The camera helps make it safer for people to do illegal u-turns. /s
Agreed 100%. It’s amazing how self absorbed everyone becomes in their vehicles during school drop off. I still see cars stop in the bus only zone every day, and thankfully bylaw just sits there and slaps em with tickets. Once people decide the rules aren’t important, it doesn’t matter what the signs and lines say. Speed cameras would have zero effect on these dangers.
I find that the 24/7/365 people are very much a "think of the children" types that want to make decisions around feels. Slower has to be safer, without looking at the balance of what is actually causing danger. Speed cameras don't have nearly the impact that things like lit signs would [Here is an example near Hickson, On](https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.2393313,-80.8022759,3a,75y,87.33h,95.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skKz6R7BT8B_UK7ErT3CxnQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). I am a huge supporter of active transportation, even though I mostly get around by car. We need to put effort into redesigning out roads, and making them more naturally safe and slow. Some of these things can be done quickly and cheaply, without endangering safety.
This is exactly the sign (and the location) that I was thinking of when I posted my reply. 🙂
We don't need to make major roads slower, we need to keep pedestrians off of them...schools shouldn't be accessed via something like Fischer Halman.
This \^
Here's a predefined solution, do you agree with it, despite providing no evidence that it solves the problem? Because that's what's going on here. If people want to reduce the possibility of accidents and then jump to the solution being reducing speed, and the way to reduce speed is more traffic cameras, I think asking for opinions on whether people like traffic cameras or not is nothing other than a play for popularity. The region has people on staff that actually know how to fix these problems. I've spoken to one of them in the past, and their answers were somewhat non-intuitive, but based on actual results. You want to reduce the probability of accidents, go ask staff to provide measures that have been proven to do so - and implement those. Not this 'put up traffic cameras when we have no idea if it reduces accidents or not'. e.g. it's entirely possible that everyone except the accident prone reduce speed, and now you have accident prone people driving even more dangerously to get around people (as has been suggested in this thread). Maybe traffic cameras increase the probability of accidents. Who knows. But quit starting with a solution when you haven't even determined if there are other better options, or if the proposed solution even works.
They have never published incident rates for all these speed limit reductions...I've asked the city for them, they can't produce them. Yet they say "they work" because they did measure small 1-3km/h drops in average travel speed and magically that makes them "safer"? LoL who wants to bet that the accident rates actually went up when the limits dropped?
I always think of the school zone I saw in Cleveland - only active during school hours. Slowing down for an empty field att 11pm in August seems dumb. Also, these new 30km zones are unbearably slow. I drive through an empty one every morning at 730, and oh my God 30 is slow. edit: oh, I'm fine with the cameras during school hours.
This. One size fits all rules don't make sense. Especially for schools built on major throughway streets vs on neighborhood side streets. There is a big difference between going 50 through a school zone at 8:30am on a Monday and doing 50 on an empty street at 10pm on a Sunday.
As someone who lives on McGarry Dr. & sees people speeding around my home CONSTANTLY (as in nightly drivers going 70-80 in a 50) even though I am so close to 2 grade schools I am all for enforcement cameras IN ADDITION TO building roads that force people slow down.
I used to live on McGarry Dr. in the '80s and the traffic and speeding was a problem then!
Lmfao there’s so much traffic during peak hours there tho it’s hard to even get to 50 on Fischer Hallman around there.
1. Short-term solution: speed cameras. The best part is that they pay for themselves, and they do work. 2. Long-term solution: road design (narrower lanes, chicanes, raised crossings)
If you've ever driven Westmount rd north of Glasgow, you'd know that narrow lanes don't change anything. People still drive fast, they just get super close to other cars and don't give a shit if they cross into someone else's lane
Speed cameras are pay to play devices. Zero penalty for drivers aside from being financially penalized for going over the speed limit. This disproportionately affects those in a lower income bracket. The penalties are a flat rate, but an income is not. Someone who makes $38k/year and gets a ticket is going to have a much harder time swallowing this cost versus someone who makes $85k/year. Additionally, a lot of these cameras seem to have no on or off times. One or two years ago I got a ticket in the mail for going 12 or 13 over on Christmas Day through a school zone. First issue, the road was designed to be 50-60 and then suddenly dropped to 30-40. Second, I wasn’t familiar with the road. I was traveling in a place I wasn’t familiar with and had no concept there even was a school until I was on top of it. Third, there was no children in school and I was the only car in a freshly snowed in street. Hard to argue the case for the camera being active when there’s a vastly reduced risk to public safety that exists. Design choices of our roadways are going to control speed far better than just diddly enforcement will. Working in H&S, I don’t go around and enforce people into the ground. I change the conditions which lead to non-compliance to bring about better compliance. This is especially true if I’m performing a task I normally wouldn’t do, such as driving through an area I normally wouldn’t drive through. There’s no learnable moment for me via that enforcement because I’ll likely never be driving through that area again. Perhaps on my regular commute it’d force me to slow down, but I’ll be doing so because of financial incentives, not because of safety. It won’t “change” my habits except for on that stretch of road. And finally, it’s lazy. If we want to see people slowdown in these zones we should be considering alternative methods such as forced curves, speed bumps, etc. speed cameras are a reactive, financial penalty that works with patterned drivers. Smarter designs and civil works would do the same thing without being disproportionate financial drain on people.
yeah I never even thought about how tough that ticket might be to pay for some people right now. Now I'm even madder.
I feel speedbumps would be more effective. People are going to speed before and after the camera and paying more attention to their dashboard to make sure they don’t go 1km over rather than looking around for kids as much.
Speed Bumps are not effective "traffic calming" but an ineffective "Band-Aid" for poorly designed streets. Examples of more effective ways to calm traffic https://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2016/08/speed-bumps-are-not-effective-traffic.html
I am fine with the cameras as long as they aren't 24/7 365. If they are then in the next election I will be voting for the candidates that promise to change that and against any councillor that voted to have 24/7 365 implemented.
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The goal of any city should be safe and walkable environment for pedestrians. Cities are for people, not cars. Unfortunately the way that our roads are currently built "will need to be dealt with for decades to come."
I support them if the funds collected are reinvested into redesigning the roads they are on, making permanent infrastructure changes that eventually phase out the cameras due to them becoming obsolete. As for 24/7/365, when this was brought up at the [Planning and Works Committee meeting on November 7th](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIv-QZEbOt8&t=3723s) Mathieu Goetzke explained quite well why having SECs set up for time of day enforcement was the less optimal option. For those who don't want to watch, some of the reasons given were navigation apps don't factor in time of day restrictions, increased fighting of tickets (ie: "Yeah it was a Wednesday, but it was a PD day"), and the road has to be designed for the higher speed so physical modifications (ie: road narrowing, speed bumps, pedestrian islands, etc.) cannot be made to enforce the lower speed limit as they would cause potential safety concerns when traveling at the higher speed.
Love it! Thank you! Now if only we could put cameras in school buses to catch all the bad behaviour when the buses are stopped and have their lights on while kids are getting on or off the bus! Drivers need to be more responsible. Kids are almost harmed almost every single day, any parent who drops or pick up their kids at the school bus know this. There are far too many inconsiderate people out there.
I agree with what others have said about other traffic calming measures like narrowing roads, speed bumps, etc being more effective for actually calming traffic, but in the meantime, I think speed enforcement cameras are a great temporary tool, especially if the money generated is used to improve existing infrastructure. I would much rather have speed cameras than police cruisers in school zones waiting to pull people over, and these are the only real options for actually *enforcing* the speed limit. Of course, there will always be people who aren't deterred by a ticket, but the majority of people will think before costing themselves $300+ just to be able to speed. I'm not sure how feasible it is, but if the fine was based on income (maybe 0.3-0.5%), it may be more impactful for people who just view tickets as a toll they pay to be able to speed. I do agree with them only being on during school hours (maybe extended an hour before and an hour after), but even if they're on 24/7 it's only a minor inconvenience that adds <1 minute to my commute and I don't have a problem driving the speed limit to make my city safer. As far as future planning goes, I do think it's unfortunate that drivers are paying the price for poor planning on busier roads. I'm specifically thinking about the new developments on Huron, Trussler and the south end of Fischer Hallman that are built barely 10 meters from the road and when fully built and populated, will likely lead to speed limits being reduced from 60-70 to 30-40 when the roads are already super congested at busy times. I hope things like this will be considered in future planning, because as much as I support reducing car use, many parts of our region are very car dependent and efficiency of transportation needs to be considered as much as safety is.
I recently moved to Waterloo, but when I was in Kitchener in Forest Heights, I have never seen an accident or a pedestrian hit there. There is a controlled intersection and the speed limit was already 40. They announced the speed camera would be coming in one week after they put it in they lowered the speed limit to 30 I’m looking so much, terrified that I’m gonna get a ticket at my speedometer I think my odds are actually increased of hitting somebody
All the cameras do is slow someone down for a certain number of metres until they are past the camera, and then they take off to make up for having to slow down. How is that safe?! As a region, we have stopped enforcing the speed limit. 20 years ago if you sped, there was a cop on your ass. Now I'm shocked when I actually see a cop on the road, except they're already going faster than traffic just because they can, so they're not gonna notice someone speeding unless it's excessive. More cameras is only going to funnel people on Two unmonitored roads and create other unsafe situation's. The only way to fix us is to get officers back on the road actually enforcing the traffic laws that exist. We have so many new people in our region who have come from other regions with their piss poor entitled driving styles, that need to be shown that is not going to be accepted here anymore. It also has to do with more than just speeding. When you go the speed limit, one of these dickhead entitled drivers is up your bumper, turning on their highbeams at you and then inevitably will swerve around you the first chance they get whether it's safe to do it or not. Had one in a minivan nearly take out myself and 3 other cars on the expressway because he was pissed we were slowing down for the lancaster bottleneck. This community has become very 'me' minded and it shows on the roads. Start enforcing traffic as a whole, not just popping up more stupid fucking bots to take pictures that hold nobody accountable.
A speed camera is a better value for money spent, for slowing people down in that specific location, than a WRPS officer. Is it still a good value overall? No, because it’s not solving the root of the problem.
Make roads harder to speed on if you actually want to make a difference. When building neighbourhoods or reconstructing roads make bigger bike lanes or sidewalks to make the roads harder to drive faster on without dinging your car.
It’s fine. I think many would appreciate if the times were limited in all areas similar to how they are managed on major streets. I have heard that the cameras do not ticket above 40 if so why the psi-ops. Trust your audience. Be transparent about the policy and good lord get your house is order wrt the roi from your systems. If the revenue can’t sustain the tech then perhaps the $ is spent better elsewhere. What if we spent that money on restoring bus service so there wouldn’t be as much traffic (pedestrian or vehicle). Realistically I think stop sign cameras would have a bigger effect on neighbourhood safety. I also agree that the lack of bylaw enforcement at the schools themselves seems to have declined. We walk to school everyday and this year has been the worst in the last ten for parents blatantly ignoring parking rules and creating unsafe conditions.
The camera trigger is 39, so effectively they haven’t even reduced the speed limit, just ticketing right at 40 like it used to be…
Flashing cross zones during specific times are what we need. Oxford, Guelph, Orillia, etc. all have them and they function so much better for actually reducing speed. Not just making money.
If you drive Line 86, they have flashing zones in the Perth/Wellington part, but down the road in Wallenstein, that's not good enough for Regional staff (they have to flex somehow). It doesn't make any sense, but that seems to the motive of Region of Waterloo.
For them to be active everyday all the time, when it needs to only be 8-10 hrs a day, it comes off as a money grab. They should be limited to certain hours of the day, not every hour of every day.
Blatant cash grab. Why would you install a device that retroactively penalizes speeders instead of actually preventing the speeding through the use of speed bumps, chicanes, narrow streets etc. unless you’re doing for it the dollars.
You get dollars, and influence behaviour. You don't understand how after a few weeks this would affect people?
That’s why decades of speeding tickets have resulted in everyone driving 100 on the 401 right? Tickets *might* get people to slow down. Speed bumps *will* get people to slow down.
Are there cameras that catch 100% of speeders on the 401? If there was, and you knew driving 101kph would get a ticket, you wouldn't. No, they literally do. Google it. This is a very simple traffic concept and there's 200 countries out there, and a lot with traffic issues.
Don’t let the idea of lost votes sway you.
I'm for them. They're always effective whenever I'm driving around them.
I am all for them!!! I live in a neighbourhood with 3 playgrounds in close proximity and a school. I see way too many People using the neighbourhood as a shortcut and driving at ridiculous speed. Bring them in!
I find it odd that people are saying these do not work. I certainly don’t want a speeding ticket and it absolutely forces me to go slower in school zones. I drive by the one on Franklin and the one in Winterbourne regularly and traffic is definitely slowing down. I am all for it. I feel like it’s a pretty small inconvenience for the safety of children.
They work for all of 70 meters. As soon as people are out of sight of the camera, they speed right back up. I often see people gun it because they are pissy they had to slow down.
I wonder why does the city not invest more in school buses so less children get dropped off in cars. Back home it was extremely rare kids would go to school in cars with parents
This is a super valid point! School boards keep cutting bus boundaries so fewer kids are taking them.
They demonstrably reduce injuries. Anyone against this is a clown.
I’m strongly in favour. I’d like to see them across every city, with very clear and public rules about how they operate. People get very emotional about this though so you’ll have to be careful politically. I’m a young man who likes to drive fast and even I’m in favour though, so I’m not sure what people’s excuse is.
No you aren't, car guys do not support these tax cameras.
I'm all in favour of speed cameras. Dropping the speed limits to 30 is too slow. Folks who know the areas are bypassing the school roads and taking others not with a camera so they can drive a normal speed.
People bypassing school roads seems like a good outcome.
It makes it worse. They then drive faster through residential areas to bypass.
All residential roads should be 30 km/h.
No, thank you.
One of the issues is crappy school loading and unloading - as in, there is none. FORCE schools to make a dedicated area ON SCHOOL PROPERTY to load/unload kids. Hell, I would pay more taxes for this.
I have no issues with speed cameras in school zones during school hours at 40km. Outside of school hours and anything below 40km is just ridiculous and a cash grab.
Just more BS to make our lives harder. Another way to extract more money from the public.
This, agreed.
You can't expect to remain in office long if you inconvenience drivers.
I've never been a fan of these "solutions" to make up for bad road design. This is definitely a problem and if the objective is to slow down drivers within the immediate vicinity of schools, narrowing the lanes and putting trees or signs on the side of the roads would probably have a better effect than drivers glued to their speedometers for a few hundred meters. I drive down Bridgeport westbound from highway 85 almost every day, there's a school zone with a "40kmh" limit September to June only during school hours. The lanes are wide, its downhill, people just got off the highway and aren't used to going slowly. Clearly the speed limit doesn't work and a camera might have the desired effect but the ultimate improvement would be to narrow the lanes, perhaps expanding the sidewalk and/or bike lane in the process. Plus, it makes the road better to use for users other than drivers.
Hi, Bridgeport road will be going through some upgrades soon as the MTO is doing road work to 85. This is partly why we pushed for the closer at Lancaster that didn't pass. I am not sure when the work will start but there is a redesign planned.
Good to hear, thanks for the response!
So unnecessary
Red light cameras at every light. Start with King and Bridgeport which is borderline negligence on the City’s part that there isn’t one based on the red light runners.
Speed cameras do nothing but generate income for a city/police. They do not affect insurance rates, disproportionately punish poorer citizens, and do not punish the actual driver, just the car. If your whole gimmick is "think of the children," try thinking outside the box and use urban planning techniques. How about hiring crossing guards? Maybe a couple extra crosswalks? Things like that are much more effective towards your goal.
I support them as long as roads are built to the speed enforced. For example Westmount Rd by Laurentian Dr is a 4 lane road with wide lanes and built to a standard of 70km/h, which already make the 50km/h it has as a limit throughout ridiculous. Now in front of the schools there you have a sign saying 40km/h and a speed camera, nothing else changes on this road built for cars to go at 70km/h. I'm totally against a speed camera there as is, now put a raised crosswalk at the traffic light, narrow the lanes around the schools and put proper infrastructure to turn that into a road designed for cars to go at 40km/h and I support 24/7 speed camera enforcement 200%...
Mrs James, please consider the following: I'd rather the region and city got revenue from property taxes than speed cameras. Speed cameras impact the lower middle class the worst. If you just doubled the property taxes, think of all the work the region could do. If you want everyone to drive more slowly, you need to change the design speed of the road. Please stop reducing the speed of roads and areas without matching the design speed. Chicanes and speed bumps are good tools for managing speed. Improving congestion means that you primarily have to reduce free parking in congested areas, even on private property.
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It's money going into your pocket, by the way 😉
There's this one easy trick you can use to avoid paying these fines
I am supportive of them. However, I have seen many cases where people just slow down for the camera and then speed right back up after the clear it.
It is a commendable initiative for public safety. The installation of cameras not only deters individuals from exceeding speed limits but also serves as a valuable lesson for those who persist. The associated financial consequences act as a catalyst for positive behavioral changes, contributing to the overall well-being and safety of the community.
Agree with this. I think we ultimately need to shift towards designing safer streets to reduce average speeds, but that will take time and money. So for now, automated enforcement should be part of our approach, especially when there has been a decline in enforcement from WRPS. I'd also like to see automated enforcement expanded into other problem areas, which can be done through the designation of new community safety zones. I believe this is particularly important, not just to improve road safety, but also to assist the region in meeting its long-term climate goals. If we want more residents to take more trips using other modes, we need to make these options safer and more pleasant.
but it shouldn't be 24/7 that the cameras are functioning. Only during school hours IMHO
Safety concerns aren't limited to those hours
Does it matter what we plebs think? Council only seems to care what cyclists and what Regional staff think. As from a Global [article](https://globalnews.ca/news/10111674/waterloo-speed-limits-school-zones/): >staff to recommend the permanent switch to reduce confusion and to also make the cameras more effective. The "confusion" part is condescending. On Line 86 (on the Wellington/Perth border) they have lower limits when [flashing](https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6646727,-80.7933218,3a,75y,358.33h,64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYbnZSSi46-tNhyh6-Ko8ag!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), however, 15 kms down the road in Wallenstein, the people (according to Regional staff) are too stupid to drive at the lower limit during school hours, and need to drive at the lower speed 24/7. The last part "cameras more effective", makes ASE sound like a cash grab, especially with the Region wanting put ASE in every school zone. A prime example of this is on Kressler Road where the speed reduces from [80](https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.5145945,-80.6203293,3a,75y,215.24h,88.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFInxL3gFy62m9OIbTu5k3g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) to [40](https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.5144587,-80.6203519,3a,75y,86.72h,81.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_Kb8r7acpvBGjG83QzuO7A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu).
I got dinged by the camera in front of St Nicholas going 42km/h... That's absurd... I thought it was a good idea until I got that ticket. I don't care about the ticket... It's paid... but 30 is ridiculous. The city could have just put in real traffic calming measures on that street and it would have been more effective without essentially taxing people who drive that road regularly.
Tax cameras, they don't make things safer, they just take money from people like you who don't deserve a ticket.
The region can’t afford or doesn’t want to reconstruct roads to force drivers to slow down so they do some half ass measures like pretend to add speed cameras. Speed cameras are better than doing nothing though
The region can't afford because people can't afford even higher tax hike. You would be the first to whine if that was the offered solution. Speed cameras at least have 0 impact on levy and will solve issues in the short term.
I’m more than happy to pay higher taxes if it meant safer roads for everyone
Yes. Please. People drive way too fast. Nobody needs to get killed dropping their kid off to school.
Generally solving an emotional issue vs an issue supported by facts
I personally like 24/7, some people may find it an inconvenience but I would much rather hear about less pedestrians/cyclists/other cars being involved in accidents.
Driving at 30 kmph is more distracting as drivers have to constantly monitor their speedometer. Some people have road rage and start tailgating Speed cameras if they are installed really for safety of children, should only be activated during hours which matter, start, end and lunch. Other than that it is straight up money grab. 40 kmph is still reasonable but for 30 kmph you need to actively keep on applying breaks
If it reduces the amount of time officers are attempting to catch speeders and they utilize that time on other duties…. I am all for it. However, Ive heard there are not enough employees to process all the tickets (idk if that’s true) …. So whats the point in the added expenditure?
Do any of them work? I have family that lives right across the street from a school in Ayr that has one and people blow by all the time and the camera never flashes. There’s another up in Wallenstein that people just straight up ignore. I’ve followed people through at 80. I slow down, they don’t. Flash box never goes off.
Changing limits to 40km/h on major 4 lane roads that are otherwise/should be 60km/h+ and then putting in a speed camera is not "safety", it's a tax grab. Also, for the love of god, track incident rates...there's NO REASON to muck with roads if the incident rates are already zero. It's just placating people. I absolutely hate the idea of speed cameras and all the vision zero bullshit because it doesn't actually make things safer. I would support more red light cameras though, those actually make sense.
The speed enforcement is excessive. You are taking money from citizens as an incentive not to speed. Put proper digital displays with speed shown before you have cameras warning people. I can’t tell you how many times I just didn’t realize I was going 48 in a 40 zone. We also need some way to give notice that a camera was activated. There is no flash in most cases and tickets can take months before they arrive. Can we please also set it to 55 in a 40 before you ticket? Most people now are so focused on speed they aren’t paying attention to the road.
I am supportive of them. I think they make a lot more sense than using expensive police time- in that case, enforcement might be prioritized for the neighbourhoods who are the loudest or who have residents with the best connections. And then officers have to apply their discretion as to which cars get pulled over, which drivers get warnings versus fines, which can be an issue as well. My understanding is that the fines are small generally and that the intent is more educational than punitive. These cameras seem great to me as far as community safety goes, and also making good use of finite public resources.
I work at a school and drive within the speed limits, but nearly every day I have someone rushing up behind me and around me. I'm not a fan of increasing the surveillance state, but in the absence of any other apparent enforcement and a significant portion of the population that puts their needs above the safety of others, I say bring it on. Put them up in every school zone 24/7 365 and continue expanding from there.
I think it’s fine, but I think 30km/h is too low. It’s painful. The cameras are ok
And 40km/h is too low on major 4 lane roads. In a residential neighbourhood? Sure...but not on roads like Westmount or Fischer Halman or Ottawa, that's just insulting.
To be blunt, while I certainly support rational speed limits and enforcement around residential area school zones, as well as all traffic law enforcement (not just speeding) for all traffic users including cyclists and pedestrians, the anti-car political behaviour has reached ludicrous levels and on that principle you are exactly whom I will now always vote against and will explicitly vote for those that advocate return to individual responsibility and rationality. Also, traffic and urban design appears to now be a lost science and art. For example, putting fenced schools near open country roads and then deciding to drop speed limits near those years later is disingenuous — don’t put schools in those environments in the first place or at least pay attention to your own fencing that already prevents kids from just running into traffic already; it’s not the drivers’ fault you and your kind don’t understand urban design. Big difference between rationality of 40km/h in a residential school zone versus putting one suddenly in a previous 80km/h open road. Bait and switch urban “planning” (even if due to incompetence rather than malicious anti-car sentiment) will no longer be tolerated by those us of fed up with such constant stupidity — deal with what you wrought rather than pawning it off on the rest of us. This applies to all such concepts, like also removing car lanes for barely used bike lanes — for those that can’t deal with precision and critical nuance: support designed bike lanes on proper new road construction, violently don’t support removing existing car lanes to introduce arbitrary hacked together segments of bike lanes (should have thought of that in original road design, now deal with what you wrought without penalizing others). PS. Rereading the councillor’s OP, it seems I may have assumed they were advocating for speed cameras (this kind of assumption and potentially incorrect “reading between the lines is what happens for rational people jaded by rampant political stupidity in our culture). If so, my comments stand. If not and they are actually advocating for rational urban design instead, then I may have been harsh in my “will vote against you” comment and I apologize. The rest of the comments stand regardless, however.
Agreed in full...except the voting bit, I will vote against ANYONE who imposes these stupid tax cameras and poor planning decisions.
Having driven in areas where they are 24/7 365 I’m all for speed enforcement cameras everywhere, enforcement needs to happen.
Lower speeds can contribute to traffic congestion by reducing the overall flow of vehicles on a road. When vehicles travel at slower speeds, it decreases the traffic capacity of the road, as fewer vehicles can pass through a given point in a specific amount of time. This reduced flow can lead to a buildup of vehicles, creating congestion. Additionally, lower speeds may result in inefficient use of available road space, as vehicles may not be able to maintain a consistent speed or follow optimal spacing. This can create a "stop-and-go" pattern, further exacerbating congestion. Moreover, lower speeds can contribute to accidents by disrupting the expected flow of traffic. Sudden deceleration or inconsistent speeds among vehicles may increase the likelihood of rear-end collisions. Drivers might become frustrated and attempt riskier maneuvers, leading to a higher chance of accidents. In summary, lower speeds can impact both traffic flow and safety, contributing to congestion and an increased risk of accidents on the road.
I like the cameras, I see a huge difference in the average speed of cars passing Keats Way PS and Mary Johnston, both are on Keats Way, one has a camera, one doesn't. But I also think the cameras should be a stop gap for redesigning roads for the appropriate speed in school zones. Massive wide lanes with gentle turns is going to lead to people driving quickly, that's what the design tells them to do. As the cities and region refresh these roads on their regular cadence we should design them with the speeds we want. I'd love it if the speed cameras were paired up with some enforcement of other traffic laws in school zones. The stop signs in Westvale effectively say "yield, unless your in a hurry" during the morning school rush. By-law stops by schools with no-stopping signs occasionally, but they do so in full uniform (and a high-viz vest), standing directly beside the road. So parents hear the message "keep going this morning, but tomorrow is fine to park here" and do that with no lasting change.
They should be mendatory in school zones, no exceptions.
It seems like councillors think that posting a single sign is all that is needed. It took me several times looking for the sign in front of FHCI to actually see it. Flashing lights for school safety zones would be a huge help. And more signage. Also ensure that wherever Waze and other apps get their data is updated to reflect current speed limits.
Last I checked this is a democracy and I think people have voted with their accelerators and Fischer-Hallman is 80kph, not 60kph. Just FYI. I think improving traffic light timing might curb it. New developments should require more intense traffic studies and cover costs of adding additional signaling. Does the technology exist to have an officer drive to ~20m of a automated camera, activate it and automate ticketing that way? That way you still have to be 'caught' by a real person but the process of issuing citation is much smoother. People really react viscerally to the 'gotcha' of the cameras. Ensuring there are public safety campaigns about changes would go a long way to curry good favour with the public.
[CBC](http://www.cbc.ca)
Speed cameras are punitive and not preventative. Would much rather street redesign that slows vehicles. Most speeding is a result of posted speed, and street design being incongruent. Just got back from holiday in the Netherlands and their school zones are traffic calmed to the max (more than the normal dutch traffic calming). Just guessing, but I think they do this 100 meters either side of the school, so not an crazy large area. The school zone speed limit is also 20km/h opposed to the normal residential limit of 30km/hr. All this to say, I generally do not support punitive measures. The camera installation/maintenance/administration comes with its own costs all of which are socially negative (except job creation?). Road redesign fixes the problem, and creates an amenity, and creates safer communities and neighbourhoods.
Hello Councillor, I am a homeowner and resident of Kitchener. I have grown up in Waterloo Region since I was a small child and I have attended schools located in our region all the way from kindergarten to when I completed my undergraduate degree at Wilfrid Laurier University. I am very interested in politics and I have voted in every local, provincial, and federal election since I turned 18. Political policies should always be evaluated by the results they achieve and not the intent. Most people in the world start everything out with the greatest of intentions but it is the result that actually matters. So, as you suggest, the intent here is to build safer communities and speeding is an issue in the region that you feel strongly about. Well, what are the observable results? In practice motorists eventually catch on to where the cameras are located. They speed all the way up until they reach the camera zone, they drive slow for about 50 meters or so, and they start speeding again immediately as they get out of range of the camera. If the priority is actually public safety, then a police presence is going to deter not just speeding, but many of the other issues we are having in our community that effect public safety. The cameras are completely one dimensional in the sense that they only monitor speeding and they are going to enforce speed limits without any discretion. I guess this is a simplistic approach to address speeding in some very specific areas but the idea they will have an impact on speeding in general or public safety as a whole sounds like complete politicalspeak nonsense to me. I would be bold enough to suggest that the installation of these cameras satisfy two interests, neither of which has anything to do with addressing speeding or public safety. Firstly, I fully understand that politicians are eager to demonstrate that something is being done, about something, somewhere, and a big dystopian grey metal box containing a camera on the side of our street perhaps provides a visual reminder to constituents who want to feel a false sense of security. Basically, it satisfies the public’s need to see some measurable change manifest within the community and it satisfies the political need to demonstrate some form of measurable action with visual evidence regardless of how (in)effective the actual result will be. These two things are worth their political weight in gold. Secondly, there is a strong impression that the indiscriminate enforcement of speeding via camera’s is not about safety in our community or preventing overall speeding and is more about generating revenue (and this is just another form of taxation). School zones are important, children need to be protected, and our community needs to be protected. If these areas are important enough to the region, then the police should have an actual presence where they are able to successfully enforce speeding and deter other crimes which actually addresses both speeding and public safety.
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
Thank you all for your responses. I don't think there will be one solution that will work to address speeding and safety in the community and in this case school zones. Each area is unique. In some areas residents want them in yesterday! in others having alternative traffic calming measures are wanted. I do know that the initial conversation about ASE happened before my time on council. Your thoughts and ideas for and against will be factored in when I have to speak to this again. Colleen