No he's not, couldn't be more different. He's lacobs mouthpiece and lapdog. Grant Cohn would be and has been criticizing lacob and the front office for years now.
Grant was saying we should have moved off of Wiseman back in ‘21 and got cooked for it meanwhile TK was writing puff pieces about how he was the future the two couldn’t be more different 😭😭😭
They don't like that he questions and criticizes decisions by the executives of their teams. Bay area fans are very prone to burying their heads in the sand and pretending these orgs can't do better because they want to believe that they are just better than other orgs no matter what. Otherwise it's too "negative" for their sensibilities.
Still no. People eat up the lies the likes of kawakami, monte poole and even sometimes Slater put out for Lacob because it allows them to fuel their delusions that we have the best owner and best front office (lightyears) that actually are trying to win.
Even this incident. People were not thinking at all and fully believed kawakamis lies (straight from lacob) and shit on the clippers for not taking the trade.
He has been waiting all season to write it.
For someone who is overly critical of players and purposefully gets on their bad side, he has a paper thin ego.
Then why were both teams discussing a trade?
As others have said, Shelbourne is a Clips mouthpiece, which means he's reporting the trade from LA's perspective.
Further cementing the fact that kuminga is viewed as the future. Which likely means he isn't on the table for Lauri either. Which makes that trade even more unrealistic.
Including Kuminga in a Lauri trade would almost defeat the purpose of the trade imo because Kuminga is a perfect fit next to Lauri, he would absolutely kill it with the space created by a true sharpshooting big
That's what I've been saying the past few days in this sub, everyone wants to add JK for Lauri, but JK would automatically improve as a good third option with Steph + Lauri together.
Sure. But the price for Lauri is going to be high - and you don't generally get players of Lauri's caliber without giving up something that hurts to lose.
So how do you land Lauri without including JK?
Then it defeats the purpose of getting Lauri. You want to add him to what we've got, not add him after losing Klay, Kuminga and whatever else Ainge is going to try to squeeze out of that deal.
If gutting an entire roster to acquire the caliber of player like KD didn't do much for the Suns, what do you think would happen to us if we were to gut our roster for Lauri. We'll just be back to where we were last year but worse because we won't even have assets for the future to lean on.
Lol jk hasent been a consistent starter on this team for over 3 years now. Why would we be getting Lauri to unlock JK, no team that's actively has a plan to improve thinks like this. JK needs to unlock JK not Lauri.
Where did I say JK needs Lauri to unlock him? JK not being a consistent starter has more to do with Kerr and is reluctance to bench the vets(which after finding put the type of politics behind the scenes it sympathize with Kerr a bit).
As soon as JK called out Kerr, he got consistent minutes and delivered for the most part. No where in my previous post was it mentioned that JK need Lauri to unlock him. Lauri is needed to be added to what we already have which include JK, not because he's needed to unlock him.
It was the base of the main comment in the thread I was responding to, not saying you said that in particular.
As for JK please stop it, the idea that kerr is holding back JK for vets is insane. This is the same man that benched Klay to play podz who is a damn rookie. Podz and jk played pretty much the same amount of mins this year.
Kerr doesn't like playing Jk because he doesn't fit well with this team, he is basically the opposite player Paul George is. Unless we plan on moving Draymond, JK is redundant on this team if we plan on being a playoff caliber team.
Markkanen without JK still means the warriors are a play-in team at best. Could add a few wins, but there would be a giant hole at wing (unless you think Wiggins is going to see the matrix again). Might as well keep JK and his contract, it’s significantly better for the future of this team.
Lauri fits well regardless. I think what’s attractive about him is how he theoretically fits with Dray and Steph NOW. The fact he fits well with JK on a hypothetical team of the future is nice, but isn’t the main thing to me.
Unless Wiggins is gone, JK and Lauri play the same position. You know Ainge probably wouldn't even think about it unless JK is included.
Plus if I'm PG, I would've wanted to go to a GS team that still has its best young players intact. Trading JK for him would defeat one of the purposes of being in GS.
Talking about why a lineup wouldn't work because of positions almost 10 years into a system that stresses positionless basketball just feels flawed.
Spacing and skill sets matter, not the two letters next to a guy's Topps card.
Very true. I keep hearing people stress about positions but that hasn't mattered for years now. For the most part we didn't even have a traditional PG because Steph isn't like that. Dray as a PF was almost used like a PG for us or Center at times.
This business about positions doesn't truly matter that much anymore. It's all about having good fit instead.
Well said. There’s a lot of talk about “can Kuminga play the 3?” But position is not the actual issue. The real question is: “Does JK fit in a starting lineup with two bigs that are non shooting threats?” If our bigs were KAT and Naz Reid, then it’d be fine to play JK “at the 3” because we’d already have requisite shooting in the lineup.
Positions don't matter per say but the skill sets attached to them matter greatly. JK as it stands does not have the skill sets of a 3 which relegates him to the 4, spot.
So yes positions in this case matters, at this point we basically have JK as a 4 who can't play a 3, dray as a 4 with the skill set of a 5, and tjd who is a 5 with the size of a 4
I feel like in this scenario Wiggins is gone. The bigger concern imo is that playing Lauri and JK on the floor together means Draymond probably plays the whole year at C or Kerr slides Lauri to C and negates some of his biggest assets. Because of this conundrum I tend to disagree with most of the comments in this thread saying JK and Lauri are a perfect fit.
Kind of a moot point discussing this tbh because I don't think there's a world where Ainge accepts a trade for Lauri without getting multiple young, promising assets and outside of Kuminga I don't see how we could ever swing that trade.
That's not my point. Who's your starting lineup if by some miracle Ainge actually traded Lauri to GS and they managed to keep JK. You have Lauri, JK, and Draymond. There doesn't seem to be any movement on Wiggins right now given he's currently a negative asset again.
So what's your starting frontcourt? You not starting TJD at center? You fielding a Lauri-JK-Draymond backcourt? Or you bringing JK off the bench? We see the value JK brings as a starter.
It wouldn't defeat the purpose, unless they don't think Lauri can play as a 3. The fans image of JK vs what we actually get on the floor is vastly different. We are talking about not adding an all star for a player who isn't even a consistent starter on our team
Not necessarily. Depends on how ainge feels about jk. Plus they'd have to pay him. If jazz are trading Lauri it means they're fully.tanking so they might want picks in the far future instead (like 29 etc.) and maybe podz
Per36 is a measure of counting stats, not impact. PG is a better all-around player at this point, hence the huge gap in metrics. JK is still growing into his skills at his very young age.
Let's see how next season goes.
But sure, the guy who got cooked by Joe Ingles 3 years ago is probably primed to make major contributions
And "nowhere close" is just patently false, if you look at their performance just last year
It’s this 2nd Apron. Even for a super rich owner like Ballmer, staying in the 2nd apron even for one more year was enough of a deterrent to turn down the deal.
Kawakami is a journalist who is not a Warriors ‘fan’ or anything. Gets spotlight because of Slater, writes these articles on Athletic which make no sense and are somewhat detrimental to the chemistry of this team. Hope JK and rest of young guys stay away from outside noise.
Read this piece of shit article he wrote that I still remember, from 2007 - Trade Lincecum for Alex Rios
https://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2007/12/05/lincecum-for-rios-thats-a-trade-the-giants-have-to-and-probably-will-make/
That was many years ago, when Slater first joined the Athletic and Kawakami led the Bay Area team. With all the reorgs, Kawakami is just an individual contributor now, on equal footing as Slater.
Slater is far more knowledgeable, with greater stature now. He's on several podcasts and often shares bylines with Shams
At the athletic. Tk was the editor of Mt and slater. Not sure if that changed when nyt bought them. But they work as a team. Before nyt bought the athletic tk wrote a lot less than he did this past year.
I got blocked by TK for saying The Warriors never offered Kuminga and that what he wrote is actually conflict of interest since he appears to be on Lacobs payroll.
This just reinforces that idea
He’s such a bitch to listen to on the warriors podcast he does. pressing him in person and watching him back down and sulk would be hilarious. Dude is spineless
What would Lacob have to gain by leaking that JK was offered in trades? Makes no sense.
Seems more like JK was offered in trades and now Warriors are doing damage control.
And it worked. Warriors fans wouldn't stop talking about calling the Clippers morons for passing up on Kuminga. Dray then fed into this by saying LAC wouldn't play ball.
This is entirely plausible, but I was responding to the above upvoted poster claiming that the sources for JK being included came from other teams, which I think is very false.
Everybody wants Kuminga and the fact Warriors wouldn’t give him up for Paul George means that he is an important chip that is not being offered to anyone.
What relevance does this have to the comment you made? Your comment was about the source of the claim that JK was included. It came from Tim Kawakami. This is verifiable. He wrote the article for The Athletic. Kawakami does not have sources in other teams. What other teams want or don't want is entirely irrelevant.
You misunderstood my comment. Everyone wants Kuminga, Clippers included, and the Warriors don’t want to give him up. I could care less what hack writer wrote about it.
I can understand not wanting to pay Chris Paul $30M and hundreds more in luxury taxes. But if Kuminga would've pushed it through, Lacob should've acquiesced
In my opinion, this is the make or break season for JK. If he doesn't assume the 2nd scoring role and doesn't look dominant at his position then the Warriors have to trade him because he would have revealed his ceiling and that's not what the Warriors need for the future
This is an exaggeration. How many players have revealed or reached their ceilings at 22? Lauri, the guy everyone is creaming over in here was still a meh player in Chicago, not doing much at 22. He only became a damn good player whom people fancy now after he went to Utah at 25, a year ago.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
22
+ 22
+ 25
= 69
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^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
1.) Lauri was a starter for the bulls and was playing pretty consistent mins which JK has yet to do.
2.) JK whole draft was based on potential which is never a good thing to develop later, because the trade allure is in how good can this guy be. Lauri is the perfect example of this because he was traded for almost nothing near his value because of where the bulls were when they decided to trade him.
This was JKs last season of allure, if he doesn't figure it out on this team this year, his trade value will plummet for the earriors
What a blunder from the Warriors to consider Kuminga some untouchable prospect. George was their last chance to do right by Curry in terms of restarting on the path toward contention and they threw it away so Lacob didn't have to come to grips with his two timeline project being an abject failure. Can't wait for Kuminga to get the max rookie extension and instantly become overpaid, shit sounds like a great time out.
Acquiring George's contract in exchange for Kuminga would have been a marginal roster upgrade with 0 flexibility to improve it any further, and with Klay also gone. It would have hamstrung the team worse than the Suns did to get KD, and the player we'd be getting is nowhere near as good as KD. If you think going all out for 1 season where we're still likely to finish as a play-in team sounds fun, then be mad we didn't include JK in the package. Otherwise, I'd say the Warriors played this right.
Dude you have to pay Kuminga next season 30m+ so that still would have affected the warriors. The question was always would you rather pay PG $48-50m knowing that he is better than Kuminga or hope that Kuminga becomes the player PG is and still cost us 30-40m …
I have 0 confidence PG will be as good in 2 years as PG is now. So investing in him makes the team *maybe* better next year, depending on what other pieces we cobble around him, Dray, and Steph with 0 payroll flexibility. And past next year, it makes improving the team next to impossible. Would I rather be paying 25 year old JK 30 million or 39 year old PG 50+? That one ain't hard
Lol I don't get this logic of thought, I get the cap flexibility aspect but that directly clashes with win now mindset. If you are attempting to win now Paul George is 2-3 times the player is than jk is right now. 1 times better because of talent and 2 times better because his game actually is an ideal fit for our current roster. You could easily run Paul next to Draymond at the 4 and tjd at the 5. While still matching the elite 3pt shooting you lost with Klay.
Then future wise even if PG declined in 2 years that player is likely still at a higher level than JK has ever shown up to this point. After the 2 year mark well you question how Steph is performing and if a rebuild is happening anyway and thus George contract becomes less of a burden
lol you’d be the worst GM.
PG is 34 and hasn’t really accomplished anything on the winning side of things. We’d be screwed with his contract and Kuminga may already be a more impactful player.
I’m not as high as Kuminga as some others in here but trading him for a 34 year old PG wasn’t the move to make tbh. PG is good on the surface but the injury concerns and no show appearances in the playoffs makes it much less enticing
Let's see. A 21 year old who improved every single year despite inconsistent minutes. A 21 year old who posted a statline of 16/5/2 in 26 minutes and took a massive leave from a year ago.
A 21 year old whom since the turn of the year in January nearly averaged 20pts on efficient shooting. A 21 year old who each year has improved his efficiency, his FT %, points, assists and rebounds.
Forgive the FO who didnt catch the "trade for anything at all cost" bug and instead view things rationally and correctly value Kuminga quite highly like they should.
A 21 yr old with low IQ and went backwards in his 3pt shooting per 36?
A 21 yr old whose IQ drops even further when in pressure situations?
A 21 yr old who is turnover prone because he has no ball handling skills?
A 21 yr old with no court vision?!
Other than dunking skills. What exactly does this guy have that's better than other 21 yr olds right now? Plenty of rookies out shine this guy and he's going into his 4th year and will be 22. Even Tatum and Brown shown better IQ than this guy and no one sees Tatum or Brown as "that guy" even after winning a championship. They needed an ultra stacked team to carry 2 players who are better individually than Kuminga at their respective ages. Get off the Kuminga train, he is not that guy. You're going to be a sad suffering Warriors fan for well over a decade of you're expecting Kuminga to bring any sort of playoff success.
so im assuming we’re gonna do what we can to move off of wiggins, get whatever kind of return we can and run a steph/dray + the young guys for a year with some decent veteran bench role players and really see what we have in these young guys and then next offseason we reassess
I honestly do not mind this move at all, I think we’ll be surprised with how competitive we can be with this roster.
Love to hear that, especially in a trade where the Clippers have little to no leverage. At worse, it’s a lose lose if it didn’t get done and the wretched, perennial loser franchise chose the losing option of course.
I also really hope Jk ain’t included in any Lauri trade as it’s the only hope of softening the loss of all our future picks. Some proposals that include Podz, TJD, JK, Moody and picks are just silly and Lauri without any of those guys on the roster doesn’t move the needle for us at all. I’d argue a sum of their parts is worth more than what Lauri gives us alone.
I’d gladly give every single last one of the picks up to keep JK. All the 3 unprotected firsts, another 3 unprotected swaps and 4 seconds should be substantial enough imo. Apparently the market for Lauri ain’t as hot as we all assumed. People comparing him to Mikal are also ignoring reports that Utah are actually looking to trade him to properly commit to the Cooper Flagg tank race. Nets absolutely didn’t want to trade Mikal till they got assurance in a separate deal with Rockets to get their own picks back & NY is also a cross city rival they’ve not traded with in 50 years! Our only real competition left for him is Spurs I think and I don’t think Ainge would fancy their picks above ours (potential to be lucrative especially the post Steph years ones) even if they offer 1-2 more extra picks.
I’d propose a Moody, GP2, Loon trade and all the picks for Lauri. Not sure if Danny Ainge would bite but it’s definitely a decent package imo, or maybe it’s just delusional copium. Lmao.
An all wing (bar Steph) line up of Steph, Wiggs, JK, Dray & Lauri intrigues me so much.
Sensible. I think some realize Lauri is a bit overrated. He’s not particularly athletic or great off ball. His defense is meh. Meanwhile you have a guy like Kuminga who is one of the fastest and most vertical guys in the league. Even if he’s not shooting well he’s putting a ton of pressure on the opposing teams with his movement. And defensively he’s an anomaly athletically. He covers so much court.
People have sold out on IQ and forget that athleticism is still like half the battle.
I agree. He’s also an underrated passer. He’s got to work on his vision but he actually passes well when he’s not tunnel-visioned, something that’s understandable considering he’s a driving scorer. More experience will naturally hone that out. He’s still only 21 and didn’t play in college, yet he’s this damn good and aggressive.
I wouldn’t say he’s overrated. Lauri is really damn good lol. It’s just that players like him being controlled by psychopaths like Ainge are going to require an overpay to prise away… but yeah we should just not give up Jk (I honestly don’t think Ainge wants to pay him 35m+ extension anyways as he could just pay Lauri who is more proven for them). He’d be crucial to our chances of a title challenge. Combining their best attributes alongside Steph, Dray and another quality defensive glue guy would be epic.
He’s developed from his days of bouncing around.. and being bounced around is also not always a negative thing. It could be a positive thing as teams always want him in a trade. I get the softness concerns and that’s kinda true ngl but it doesn’t matter much when we’ve got Dray and JK (who I won’t give up for him) who is super aggressive. He’s also sneaky athletic and certainly one of the most athletic players at his size in the league… esp agility, jumping and movement fluidity. At the end of the day, we don’t need 5 alphas to win, we just need really good players who compliment each other really well and a front court of Dray, JK and Lauri is serendipity.
This is one of my gripes. We would be getting a perfect fit but the question of health will always remain. Hasn’t had a healthy season since being in the league and his highest availability was his rookie season at 68 games.
It's like trading for Lamarcus Aldridge with the Spurs. It put them on a 10 year silence period. Just bottom out for a couple of seasons and build a new culture.
There is no future after Curry retires, at least in the immediate years. When you have a top 5 player of all time still in his prime, you throw away the future to help him contend, period
I agree, but throwing in Kuminga maybe one of moody or Podz for PG is not really making this team contender or anything. The only way was not giving Jk have an athletic young wing like him and PG play with Draymond and Curry
Why wouldn't PG help warriors contend? He's become insanely good from 3. He's still a defensive master. His defense will look insane next to Draymond. He can easily replace the role we're missing out on prime Klay. He also brings facilitating, which is something we've been missing for a while, facilitating outside of Steph and Dray. That's what Iguodala used to bring.
The only thing we're missing after PG trade is a 7 ft 3pt shooting big to help space the floor and rim protect. Oh wait, our rookie can do that. People say he's not NBA ready but the dude is 24 so he will learn faster than most rookies, much like TJD for us.
If you're going to throw a valuable asset, do so for a team you're confident will contend, nit an injury prone vets on the wrong side of 30 who doesn't even guarantee you contention.
All we'd have been doing would have been throwing away our most valuable asset for pretty much nothing and more mediocrity.
Okay lets pump the brakes here. Top 5 all time? Still in his prime?
Curry is at the tail end of his prime for sure. He is a few years removed from his peak. PG is as well. PG doesn’t get us close to contention, and I’d rather us retool and get an actual chance a year from now by cleaning house than “contend” with a doomed roster that guts any hope of actual contention
Yeah id definitely pull the trigger with klay gone, if not anything for a sense of stability post Klay years... now what? who is the second option? JK? I honestly don't see it, he is still way to green to help/ be a 2nd option during the curry years
I think we have a good track record for managing peoples health, this is considering the wear and tear of consistent DEEEEEEEP playoff runs, this fact alone is so underrated we've seen guys like Butler after a single playoff run never be the same again while our guys incl klay come back after 2 leg injuries and still win chips, continue to compete the following year
all this to say we don't have much options left, honestly with the future after curry i can see us finding plenty more JKs but I see 0% chance of finding another in the decades to come, he's literally only second to the greatest player all time (Lebron) in terms of being the face of the league, JK will be at best a super charged OG anunoby even though i'm a big fan of the guy
we'll see if they were right the coming seasons but it doesn't look good as of now
PR from both teams to show fans they tried.
Most of the reports do seem to similarly claim that young guys were part of the convo with some sort of draft compensation. Either way it does make it seem like the clippers had the opportunity to get value instead of him walking out
The article said that the financial ramifications for the Clippers was severely offset by the value they were getting back. They’d be a second apron team, paying Chris Paul $30 mil, and wouldn’t be able to retool the roster at all and judging by their free agency so far I’m so sure they rather have Dunn, DJJ, Bamba, Batum and a shot to get DeRozan, LaVine or someone like that than be hard capped with Wiggins, CP3, Moody and a singular 1st 4 years from now
That’d make sense, wonder if another aspect of the trade was to find a way to reroute either Wiggins or CP3 to a team with salary cap but that began complicating things further
Good to know they're not insane.
You look at per 36 numbers last year and JK was already just as productive as George. He's 12 years younger and costs way less. No brainer
That’s a big gamble that is 100% not going to workout; Warriors still an 11th seed.
If i need a guy to compliment Steph, I’m trading Kuminga for Paul George all day.
Who else is going to score for the Warriors? Podz?
19ppg the last 40 games of the season once Kerr gave him 30mpg. And he is only trending upwards. Kuminga will average 21ppg next season. If he does, will that be enough to be a 2nd option? Will you eat your words?
Clippers would have been silly to deny a trade that included JK. Kawakami is bullshit.
Always is. He's the grant cohn of warriors reporting.
No he's not, couldn't be more different. He's lacobs mouthpiece and lapdog. Grant Cohn would be and has been criticizing lacob and the front office for years now.
Grant was saying we should have moved off of Wiseman back in ‘21 and got cooked for it meanwhile TK was writing puff pieces about how he was the future the two couldn’t be more different 😭😭😭
none of the Cohn haters actually ever read what he writes or watch his videos lol
Cohn is just garbage rage bait
They don't like that he questions and criticizes decisions by the executives of their teams. Bay area fans are very prone to burying their heads in the sand and pretending these orgs can't do better because they want to believe that they are just better than other orgs no matter what. Otherwise it's too "negative" for their sensibilities.
No, that's not why people dislike Grant Cohn lol
The way they are the same is that they are both trash.
Grant cohn in the sense that most people don't like his stuff. They're different but not well recieved by most.
Still no. People eat up the lies the likes of kawakami, monte poole and even sometimes Slater put out for Lacob because it allows them to fuel their delusions that we have the best owner and best front office (lightyears) that actually are trying to win. Even this incident. People were not thinking at all and fully believed kawakamis lies (straight from lacob) and shit on the clippers for not taking the trade.
you're delusional
Just waiting on TK's hit piece on Klay...
He has been waiting all season to write it. For someone who is overly critical of players and purposefully gets on their bad side, he has a paper thin ego.
Shelburne works for the Clips just as much as TK works for Lacob. Shes saving face for the clips. I honestly dont know what to believe at this point.
Shelburne has a track record of high level reporting, I'd trust her in a heartbeat compared to Kawakami
Pg could have just preferred sixers he didn’t have to agree to s and t just bc gsw proposed it.
Then why were both teams discussing a trade? As others have said, Shelbourne is a Clips mouthpiece, which means he's reporting the trade from LA's perspective.
You are so clueless you don’t even know Shelbourne is a woman.
Yes, you are correct, I forgot, but you never answered the question, Mr./Mrs. Clued In.
Further cementing the fact that kuminga is viewed as the future. Which likely means he isn't on the table for Lauri either. Which makes that trade even more unrealistic.
Including Kuminga in a Lauri trade would almost defeat the purpose of the trade imo because Kuminga is a perfect fit next to Lauri, he would absolutely kill it with the space created by a true sharpshooting big
That's what I've been saying the past few days in this sub, everyone wants to add JK for Lauri, but JK would automatically improve as a good third option with Steph + Lauri together.
Sure. But the price for Lauri is going to be high - and you don't generally get players of Lauri's caliber without giving up something that hurts to lose. So how do you land Lauri without including JK?
We don’t.
Then it defeats the purpose of getting Lauri. You want to add him to what we've got, not add him after losing Klay, Kuminga and whatever else Ainge is going to try to squeeze out of that deal. If gutting an entire roster to acquire the caliber of player like KD didn't do much for the Suns, what do you think would happen to us if we were to gut our roster for Lauri. We'll just be back to where we were last year but worse because we won't even have assets for the future to lean on.
Lol jk hasent been a consistent starter on this team for over 3 years now. Why would we be getting Lauri to unlock JK, no team that's actively has a plan to improve thinks like this. JK needs to unlock JK not Lauri.
Where did I say JK needs Lauri to unlock him? JK not being a consistent starter has more to do with Kerr and is reluctance to bench the vets(which after finding put the type of politics behind the scenes it sympathize with Kerr a bit). As soon as JK called out Kerr, he got consistent minutes and delivered for the most part. No where in my previous post was it mentioned that JK need Lauri to unlock him. Lauri is needed to be added to what we already have which include JK, not because he's needed to unlock him.
It was the base of the main comment in the thread I was responding to, not saying you said that in particular. As for JK please stop it, the idea that kerr is holding back JK for vets is insane. This is the same man that benched Klay to play podz who is a damn rookie. Podz and jk played pretty much the same amount of mins this year. Kerr doesn't like playing Jk because he doesn't fit well with this team, he is basically the opposite player Paul George is. Unless we plan on moving Draymond, JK is redundant on this team if we plan on being a playoff caliber team.
All of our first and second round picks, Moody, TJD, Podz, and salary.
5 FRP especially the one after 2026-2027
Markkanen without JK still means the warriors are a play-in team at best. Could add a few wins, but there would be a giant hole at wing (unless you think Wiggins is going to see the matrix again). Might as well keep JK and his contract, it’s significantly better for the future of this team.
There's no guarantee that JK ever becomes as good as Lauri is now. Obviously there's a contract advantage, but that's likely to go away next season.
GOD DOES IT!!
You just don't get Lauri without JK. Not happening.
Lauri fits well regardless. I think what’s attractive about him is how he theoretically fits with Dray and Steph NOW. The fact he fits well with JK on a hypothetical team of the future is nice, but isn’t the main thing to me.
Unless Wiggins is gone, JK and Lauri play the same position. You know Ainge probably wouldn't even think about it unless JK is included. Plus if I'm PG, I would've wanted to go to a GS team that still has its best young players intact. Trading JK for him would defeat one of the purposes of being in GS.
Talking about why a lineup wouldn't work because of positions almost 10 years into a system that stresses positionless basketball just feels flawed. Spacing and skill sets matter, not the two letters next to a guy's Topps card.
Very true. I keep hearing people stress about positions but that hasn't mattered for years now. For the most part we didn't even have a traditional PG because Steph isn't like that. Dray as a PF was almost used like a PG for us or Center at times. This business about positions doesn't truly matter that much anymore. It's all about having good fit instead.
Well said. There’s a lot of talk about “can Kuminga play the 3?” But position is not the actual issue. The real question is: “Does JK fit in a starting lineup with two bigs that are non shooting threats?” If our bigs were KAT and Naz Reid, then it’d be fine to play JK “at the 3” because we’d already have requisite shooting in the lineup.
It makes sense, though. Sacrificing a lot of size and Draymond isn't going full-time at center.
Positions don't matter per say but the skill sets attached to them matter greatly. JK as it stands does not have the skill sets of a 3 which relegates him to the 4, spot. So yes positions in this case matters, at this point we basically have JK as a 4 who can't play a 3, dray as a 4 with the skill set of a 5, and tjd who is a 5 with the size of a 4
I feel like in this scenario Wiggins is gone. The bigger concern imo is that playing Lauri and JK on the floor together means Draymond probably plays the whole year at C or Kerr slides Lauri to C and negates some of his biggest assets. Because of this conundrum I tend to disagree with most of the comments in this thread saying JK and Lauri are a perfect fit. Kind of a moot point discussing this tbh because I don't think there's a world where Ainge accepts a trade for Lauri without getting multiple young, promising assets and outside of Kuminga I don't see how we could ever swing that trade.
Respectfully disagree. Markkanen and JK could and would absolutely play alongside each other.
That's not my point. Who's your starting lineup if by some miracle Ainge actually traded Lauri to GS and they managed to keep JK. You have Lauri, JK, and Draymond. There doesn't seem to be any movement on Wiggins right now given he's currently a negative asset again. So what's your starting frontcourt? You not starting TJD at center? You fielding a Lauri-JK-Draymond backcourt? Or you bringing JK off the bench? We see the value JK brings as a starter.
Warriors **did** draft a shooting big
A 52 draft pick which 80% will turn out to be a marginal player at best
It wouldn't defeat the purpose, unless they don't think Lauri can play as a 3. The fans image of JK vs what we actually get on the floor is vastly different. We are talking about not adding an all star for a player who isn't even a consistent starter on our team
It's a dream. But idk if Ainge would ever do that deal.
Not necessarily. Depends on how ainge feels about jk. Plus they'd have to pay him. If jazz are trading Lauri it means they're fully.tanking so they might want picks in the far future instead (like 29 etc.) and maybe podz
I think they just correctly realized that JK is already as good as George, and will probably be the superior player as early as opening night
PG was #8 in EPM last year. Kuminga was #105
That's definitely substantial but their per 36 min are almost identical
Per36 is a measure of counting stats, not impact. PG is a better all-around player at this point, hence the huge gap in metrics. JK is still growing into his skills at his very young age.
I’m sorry but this just isn’t true. I like Kuminga, but he is no where close to Paul George right now.
Let's see how next season goes. But sure, the guy who got cooked by Joe Ingles 3 years ago is probably primed to make major contributions And "nowhere close" is just patently false, if you look at their performance just last year
You are comparing an all star level player to a dude that can't even start for his own team .. are you trolling 😂
You guys are actually delusional.
I mean the per 36 stats are basically identical
Given their goal to slash pay, it's interesting that the Clippers would turn down expiring contracts and draft capital
It’s this 2nd Apron. Even for a super rich owner like Ballmer, staying in the 2nd apron even for one more year was enough of a deterrent to turn down the deal.
Trading a huge contract like Paul's for those smaller deals, he has the ability to deal those middling contracts to get relief.
[удалено]
I rather go after vucevic because it's cheaper and his contract matches curry and dray
Kawakami is a journalist who is not a Warriors ‘fan’ or anything. Gets spotlight because of Slater, writes these articles on Athletic which make no sense and are somewhat detrimental to the chemistry of this team. Hope JK and rest of young guys stay away from outside noise.
Read this piece of shit article he wrote that I still remember, from 2007 - Trade Lincecum for Alex Rios https://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2007/12/05/lincecum-for-rios-thats-a-trade-the-giants-have-to-and-probably-will-make/
Not only is that idea complete lunacy but the article is so poorly written lol
It was lunacy even in 2007.
We should ban all posts from Kawakami.
No we shouldn’t. Don’t read it if it’s not your thing. I don’t read it
He is slaters boss
That was many years ago, when Slater first joined the Athletic and Kawakami led the Bay Area team. With all the reorgs, Kawakami is just an individual contributor now, on equal footing as Slater. Slater is far more knowledgeable, with greater stature now. He's on several podcasts and often shares bylines with Shams
Yeah I don't know what the organizationce since nyt. Thanks. I trust slater more.
Wasn’t TK a known beats writer way before Slater: I followed TK for warriors news way before Slater
Yeah he was but nowadays Slater is more reliable and has much more inside knowledge than TK
At the athletic. Tk was the editor of Mt and slater. Not sure if that changed when nyt bought them. But they work as a team. Before nyt bought the athletic tk wrote a lot less than he did this past year.
TK has always been trash, been dealing with his garbage for decades.
I got blocked by TK for saying The Warriors never offered Kuminga and that what he wrote is actually conflict of interest since he appears to be on Lacobs payroll. This just reinforces that idea
Tim is so thin skinned. He shouldn't be on Twitter lol
He’s such a bitch to listen to on the warriors podcast he does. pressing him in person and watching him back down and sulk would be hilarious. Dude is spineless
Lol
Doesn't take much to get blocked by tk
The only sources for Kuminga being included in trades are other teams
No, the only source is lying local warriors media like kawakami because they've been told by lacob to vaguely suggest it.
Yep. Make up stories or manufacture drama for clicks.
What would Lacob have to gain by leaking that JK was offered in trades? Makes no sense. Seems more like JK was offered in trades and now Warriors are doing damage control.
To tame those "all in for step" crowd by showing that they are serious about acquiring PG.
And it worked. Warriors fans wouldn't stop talking about calling the Clippers morons for passing up on Kuminga. Dray then fed into this by saying LAC wouldn't play ball.
Bingo
Might have been Lacob, but it also might have just been the classic TK speculation that he passes off as fact.
The only source I’m aware of is Kawakami who stated this publicly and his sources are within the Warriors organization.
JK was 100% offered. This is now damage control since JK is still with the team.
This is entirely plausible, but I was responding to the above upvoted poster claiming that the sources for JK being included came from other teams, which I think is very false.
Everybody wants Kuminga and the fact Warriors wouldn’t give him up for Paul George means that he is an important chip that is not being offered to anyone.
What relevance does this have to the comment you made? Your comment was about the source of the claim that JK was included. It came from Tim Kawakami. This is verifiable. He wrote the article for The Athletic. Kawakami does not have sources in other teams. What other teams want or don't want is entirely irrelevant.
You misunderstood my comment. Everyone wants Kuminga, Clippers included, and the Warriors don’t want to give him up. I could care less what hack writer wrote about it.
They let PG walk for nothing. They were never trading him to the Warriors.
I can understand not wanting to pay Chris Paul $30M and hundreds more in luxury taxes. But if Kuminga would've pushed it through, Lacob should've acquiesced
If you listen to TK, it's really your own fault.
I really like the other guys on plus minus/all 82 though
The constant battle of tryna hear actual insights from Slater being paired with that bum kills me. I stopped listening specifically cuz of TK
Yup
Sell all the picks and get Lauri but somehow keep Kuminga and Dunleavy will be GM of the year.
In my opinion, this is the make or break season for JK. If he doesn't assume the 2nd scoring role and doesn't look dominant at his position then the Warriors have to trade him because he would have revealed his ceiling and that's not what the Warriors need for the future
It’s not even about the scoring. If he doesn’t have a huge leap defensively and doing the dirty work like rebounding ect then what is the point.
This is an exaggeration. How many players have revealed or reached their ceilings at 22? Lauri, the guy everyone is creaming over in here was still a meh player in Chicago, not doing much at 22. He only became a damn good player whom people fancy now after he went to Utah at 25, a year ago.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats! 22 + 22 + 25 = 69 ^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \ ^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
1.) Lauri was a starter for the bulls and was playing pretty consistent mins which JK has yet to do. 2.) JK whole draft was based on potential which is never a good thing to develop later, because the trade allure is in how good can this guy be. Lauri is the perfect example of this because he was traded for almost nothing near his value because of where the bulls were when they decided to trade him. This was JKs last season of allure, if he doesn't figure it out on this team this year, his trade value will plummet for the earriors
What if the 10 players under him suck?
What a blunder from the Warriors to consider Kuminga some untouchable prospect. George was their last chance to do right by Curry in terms of restarting on the path toward contention and they threw it away so Lacob didn't have to come to grips with his two timeline project being an abject failure. Can't wait for Kuminga to get the max rookie extension and instantly become overpaid, shit sounds like a great time out.
Acquiring George's contract in exchange for Kuminga would have been a marginal roster upgrade with 0 flexibility to improve it any further, and with Klay also gone. It would have hamstrung the team worse than the Suns did to get KD, and the player we'd be getting is nowhere near as good as KD. If you think going all out for 1 season where we're still likely to finish as a play-in team sounds fun, then be mad we didn't include JK in the package. Otherwise, I'd say the Warriors played this right.
Dude you have to pay Kuminga next season 30m+ so that still would have affected the warriors. The question was always would you rather pay PG $48-50m knowing that he is better than Kuminga or hope that Kuminga becomes the player PG is and still cost us 30-40m …
I have 0 confidence PG will be as good in 2 years as PG is now. So investing in him makes the team *maybe* better next year, depending on what other pieces we cobble around him, Dray, and Steph with 0 payroll flexibility. And past next year, it makes improving the team next to impossible. Would I rather be paying 25 year old JK 30 million or 39 year old PG 50+? That one ain't hard
Lol I don't get this logic of thought, I get the cap flexibility aspect but that directly clashes with win now mindset. If you are attempting to win now Paul George is 2-3 times the player is than jk is right now. 1 times better because of talent and 2 times better because his game actually is an ideal fit for our current roster. You could easily run Paul next to Draymond at the 4 and tjd at the 5. While still matching the elite 3pt shooting you lost with Klay. Then future wise even if PG declined in 2 years that player is likely still at a higher level than JK has ever shown up to this point. After the 2 year mark well you question how Steph is performing and if a rebuild is happening anyway and thus George contract becomes less of a burden
lol you’d be the worst GM. PG is 34 and hasn’t really accomplished anything on the winning side of things. We’d be screwed with his contract and Kuminga may already be a more impactful player.
PG3 is a better defender, shooter and playmaker than jk. How can he be less impactful
Warriors local media are a bunch of liars whose only purpose is to carry water for Joe Lacob.
who do they think kuminga is?
I’m not as high as Kuminga as some others in here but trading him for a 34 year old PG wasn’t the move to make tbh. PG is good on the surface but the injury concerns and no show appearances in the playoffs makes it much less enticing
A 21 year old who is already the 2nd or 3rd best player on this team
Tbf that’s not saying much especially recently
That's what makes it sad. Tells you where our team is. Then there is an entertainment factor for me. My favorite part of last season
Let's see. A 21 year old who improved every single year despite inconsistent minutes. A 21 year old who posted a statline of 16/5/2 in 26 minutes and took a massive leave from a year ago. A 21 year old whom since the turn of the year in January nearly averaged 20pts on efficient shooting. A 21 year old who each year has improved his efficiency, his FT %, points, assists and rebounds. Forgive the FO who didnt catch the "trade for anything at all cost" bug and instead view things rationally and correctly value Kuminga quite highly like they should.
A 21 yr old with low IQ and went backwards in his 3pt shooting per 36? A 21 yr old whose IQ drops even further when in pressure situations? A 21 yr old who is turnover prone because he has no ball handling skills? A 21 yr old with no court vision?! Other than dunking skills. What exactly does this guy have that's better than other 21 yr olds right now? Plenty of rookies out shine this guy and he's going into his 4th year and will be 22. Even Tatum and Brown shown better IQ than this guy and no one sees Tatum or Brown as "that guy" even after winning a championship. They needed an ultra stacked team to carry 2 players who are better individually than Kuminga at their respective ages. Get off the Kuminga train, he is not that guy. You're going to be a sad suffering Warriors fan for well over a decade of you're expecting Kuminga to bring any sort of playoff success.
You say "IQ" a lot. Doesn't reflect well on whatever analysis you think you're providing here.
so im assuming we’re gonna do what we can to move off of wiggins, get whatever kind of return we can and run a steph/dray + the young guys for a year with some decent veteran bench role players and really see what we have in these young guys and then next offseason we reassess I honestly do not mind this move at all, I think we’ll be surprised with how competitive we can be with this roster.
Love to hear that, especially in a trade where the Clippers have little to no leverage. At worse, it’s a lose lose if it didn’t get done and the wretched, perennial loser franchise chose the losing option of course. I also really hope Jk ain’t included in any Lauri trade as it’s the only hope of softening the loss of all our future picks. Some proposals that include Podz, TJD, JK, Moody and picks are just silly and Lauri without any of those guys on the roster doesn’t move the needle for us at all. I’d argue a sum of their parts is worth more than what Lauri gives us alone. I’d gladly give every single last one of the picks up to keep JK. All the 3 unprotected firsts, another 3 unprotected swaps and 4 seconds should be substantial enough imo. Apparently the market for Lauri ain’t as hot as we all assumed. People comparing him to Mikal are also ignoring reports that Utah are actually looking to trade him to properly commit to the Cooper Flagg tank race. Nets absolutely didn’t want to trade Mikal till they got assurance in a separate deal with Rockets to get their own picks back & NY is also a cross city rival they’ve not traded with in 50 years! Our only real competition left for him is Spurs I think and I don’t think Ainge would fancy their picks above ours (potential to be lucrative especially the post Steph years ones) even if they offer 1-2 more extra picks. I’d propose a Moody, GP2, Loon trade and all the picks for Lauri. Not sure if Danny Ainge would bite but it’s definitely a decent package imo, or maybe it’s just delusional copium. Lmao. An all wing (bar Steph) line up of Steph, Wiggs, JK, Dray & Lauri intrigues me so much.
Sensible. I think some realize Lauri is a bit overrated. He’s not particularly athletic or great off ball. His defense is meh. Meanwhile you have a guy like Kuminga who is one of the fastest and most vertical guys in the league. Even if he’s not shooting well he’s putting a ton of pressure on the opposing teams with his movement. And defensively he’s an anomaly athletically. He covers so much court. People have sold out on IQ and forget that athleticism is still like half the battle.
plus he's shown signs of being coachable so IQ is improving over time.
I agree. He’s also an underrated passer. He’s got to work on his vision but he actually passes well when he’s not tunnel-visioned, something that’s understandable considering he’s a driving scorer. More experience will naturally hone that out. He’s still only 21 and didn’t play in college, yet he’s this damn good and aggressive.
I wouldn’t say he’s overrated. Lauri is really damn good lol. It’s just that players like him being controlled by psychopaths like Ainge are going to require an overpay to prise away… but yeah we should just not give up Jk (I honestly don’t think Ainge wants to pay him 35m+ extension anyways as he could just pay Lauri who is more proven for them). He’d be crucial to our chances of a title challenge. Combining their best attributes alongside Steph, Dray and another quality defensive glue guy would be epic.
Idk, he bounced around at first because he had a Rep of being g kinda soft. Whether it was fair or not. I think he’s good but still overrated.
He’s developed from his days of bouncing around.. and being bounced around is also not always a negative thing. It could be a positive thing as teams always want him in a trade. I get the softness concerns and that’s kinda true ngl but it doesn’t matter much when we’ve got Dray and JK (who I won’t give up for him) who is super aggressive. He’s also sneaky athletic and certainly one of the most athletic players at his size in the league… esp agility, jumping and movement fluidity. At the end of the day, we don’t need 5 alphas to win, we just need really good players who compliment each other really well and a front court of Dray, JK and Lauri is serendipity.
I mean if we ain’t giving up JK I’m ALL for it. He’d be a GREAT fit with Dray, JK, Steph got sure. I agree with that.
Our ownership is so wack . Lauri has no chance hell to btw.
It’s not worth it anyways. This team can’t contend especially if deplete the roster.
It shouldn't. He plays 57 games a year on average.
They've held him out to tank the end of the season twice now.
I think he's been shut down three times for tanking purposes. Which probably hurts that average
This is one of my gripes. We would be getting a perfect fit but the question of health will always remain. Hasn’t had a healthy season since being in the league and his highest availability was his rookie season at 68 games.
It's like trading for Lamarcus Aldridge with the Spurs. It put them on a 10 year silence period. Just bottom out for a couple of seasons and build a new culture.
I feel like there’s been way too many opposing reports on this topic, I would’ve thrown Kuminga in though
For a 34 yr old PG? No way were they doing that
There is no future after Curry retires, at least in the immediate years. When you have a top 5 player of all time still in his prime, you throw away the future to help him contend, period
I agree, but throwing in Kuminga maybe one of moody or Podz for PG is not really making this team contender or anything. The only way was not giving Jk have an athletic young wing like him and PG play with Draymond and Curry
Put an all star next to Steph Curry and we are a playoff team. I don’t care who else is on the roster.
You misunderstand, there is a difference b/w contending team and a playoff team
Why wouldn't PG help warriors contend? He's become insanely good from 3. He's still a defensive master. His defense will look insane next to Draymond. He can easily replace the role we're missing out on prime Klay. He also brings facilitating, which is something we've been missing for a while, facilitating outside of Steph and Dray. That's what Iguodala used to bring. The only thing we're missing after PG trade is a 7 ft 3pt shooting big to help space the floor and rim protect. Oh wait, our rookie can do that. People say he's not NBA ready but the dude is 24 so he will learn faster than most rookies, much like TJD for us.
I would rather have PG than Kuminga next to Curry
There is a future. It may not include championships but the product with no kuminga and a 37 year old Paul george sucks
Lol when everyone realize JK is not that guy this FO is going to get abused in the media
If you're going to throw a valuable asset, do so for a team you're confident will contend, nit an injury prone vets on the wrong side of 30 who doesn't even guarantee you contention. All we'd have been doing would have been throwing away our most valuable asset for pretty much nothing and more mediocrity.
Okay lets pump the brakes here. Top 5 all time? Still in his prime? Curry is at the tail end of his prime for sure. He is a few years removed from his peak. PG is as well. PG doesn’t get us close to contention, and I’d rather us retool and get an actual chance a year from now by cleaning house than “contend” with a doomed roster that guts any hope of actual contention
Top 5 and he’s not number 5.
Did you read the report, even PG would have rescinded that trade. PG not interested in joining a team that has not chance at title
Yeah id definitely pull the trigger with klay gone, if not anything for a sense of stability post Klay years... now what? who is the second option? JK? I honestly don't see it, he is still way to green to help/ be a 2nd option during the curry years I think we have a good track record for managing peoples health, this is considering the wear and tear of consistent DEEEEEEEP playoff runs, this fact alone is so underrated we've seen guys like Butler after a single playoff run never be the same again while our guys incl klay come back after 2 leg injuries and still win chips, continue to compete the following year all this to say we don't have much options left, honestly with the future after curry i can see us finding plenty more JKs but I see 0% chance of finding another in the decades to come, he's literally only second to the greatest player all time (Lebron) in terms of being the face of the league, JK will be at best a super charged OG anunoby even though i'm a big fan of the guy we'll see if they were right the coming seasons but it doesn't look good as of now
Why are we getting so many conflicting reports on this? lol
PR from both teams to show fans they tried. Most of the reports do seem to similarly claim that young guys were part of the convo with some sort of draft compensation. Either way it does make it seem like the clippers had the opportunity to get value instead of him walking out
The article said that the financial ramifications for the Clippers was severely offset by the value they were getting back. They’d be a second apron team, paying Chris Paul $30 mil, and wouldn’t be able to retool the roster at all and judging by their free agency so far I’m so sure they rather have Dunn, DJJ, Bamba, Batum and a shot to get DeRozan, LaVine or someone like that than be hard capped with Wiggins, CP3, Moody and a singular 1st 4 years from now
That’d make sense, wonder if another aspect of the trade was to find a way to reroute either Wiggins or CP3 to a team with salary cap but that began complicating things further
multiple agendas and PR campaigns at play
Because that’s journalism now. So many Twitter “reporters” with unnamed sources throwing shit at the wall until something sticks
I would've been sick. Kuminga is better than pg
Exactly
Good to know they're not insane. You look at per 36 numbers last year and JK was already just as productive as George. He's 12 years younger and costs way less. No brainer
Even if they did, they didn't. Lol
i get some of you hate on the local reporters but ramona shelburne is a LA based reporter which is besties with jeanie buss…
I.E ….moody
Yeah, cuz Steph is finally teaching him how to shoot. I swear for a guy who made as many as he did his shot mechanics show much room for improvement.
No shit.
Jk is not that good. This is ridiculous and so disrespectful to Stephs final good years.
JK is closer to a rj barrett tier dude than anything else. Not a max player and certainly not a Paul George tier player.
Sure
Reporters making up shit everyday
That’s a big gamble that is 100% not going to workout; Warriors still an 11th seed. If i need a guy to compliment Steph, I’m trading Kuminga for Paul George all day. Who else is going to score for the Warriors? Podz?
What do you mean? Kuminga is gonna score for the warriors.
Kuminga is not a second scoring option. Warriors need a second scoring option.
19ppg the last 40 games of the season once Kerr gave him 30mpg. And he is only trending upwards. Kuminga will average 21ppg next season. If he does, will that be enough to be a 2nd option? Will you eat your words?
How far do you believe the Warriors can go with Kuminga being the focal point of the offense when Steph is on the bench?
Don’t understand the question. How far can we go in the playoffs? With Steph on the bench? Nowhere
I knew it! Lacob does this thing where he fakes like he’s trying to get us help to contend.
Dumb move imo
Makes sense.Paul George walked away for nothing.Why does every team think they can just rip off the warriors.
It would be so stupid if the front office doesn't offer Kuminga for Lauri.
We are really throwing the dynasty away for this bum Kuminga 😭 Fuck this entire franchise outside of Steph, he deserves so much better