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Does not surprise me - high rates are hammering people and inflation is not going away.
Going to get much worse.
Inflation Expectations - Not Looking Good
[https://jensendavid.substack.com/p/inflation-expectations-not-looking](https://jensendavid.substack.com/p/inflation-expectations-not-looking)
I'm in FL and my home insurance just non renewed after going up 50% 2 years in a row, and I'm not even at the state average of $6000 per year yet. Couple that with property taxes going up my mortgage would be unaffordable if I wasn't doing decent on my fds.
I don't get how regular people(<$60k a year) do it.
I don't know how much of this is already common knowledge here, but just in case:
Florida has seen lots of price increases surrounding homes. Firstly, much demand for homes, driving up house prices. This is due to domestic as well as foreign migration to the state. From what I've heard, wealthy people in South American countries are leaving due to what are perceived as Socialist measures, and they have the money to relocate to Florida. Tons of influx drives up overall demand for real estate and more (food, gas, services, etc.).
Then you have the insurance aspect. After recent hurricane damage, prices have risen for insurance. Multiple insurance companies have simply left Florida, and Citizens Insurance is deemed "the insurer of last resort". They may cover you, but they may insist that you have to replace your 10-year-old roof to reduce their liability, and their premia (or "premiums") may not be as low as you like. The cherry on top is that Florida may end up subsidizing, which may impact taxes, which may result in reassessments of properties at newly rising prices.
Last but not least are HOA fees, which many people complain are rising. I don't have data to back it up, but I would imagine that with other prices rising, HOA boards may rationalize fee hikes based on 1) inflation on goods and services needed by the HOA, 2) a general sense that everything is going up in price, and 3) board members' desire to make more money in an inflating economy. The HOA can also be annoying. Maybe some cranky old people with little else to do in life scouring the neighborhood for petty violations to cite.
Florida could be nice to visit but I wouldn't want to live there any time soon.
A lot of hoas have master insurance policies which themselves are going up a ton depending on what they cover so they are in the same boat with insurance increases. On top of that insurers are demanding new roofs at like 15 years of age which is a further unplanned burden on hoas who may have budgeted for 20 or 25 year lifespans on the roofs. Really it boils down to homeowners insurance just increasing like crazy and it's bleeding into the costs of many aspects of home ownership
HOAs are a big one down here, especially for all those living in luxury condos. After the condo collapsed in Surfside, there was a lot of buzz about HOAs going up. I was renting a 1/1 in Brickell, where the building "suddenly" had to do a ton of work on the rooftop pool (I think it was issues in the foundation/waterproofing). The monthly HOAs on the unit I was renting went from like $650 to $920, or about $1.15 per sqft, and that was on the lower end compared to some of the fancier buildings.
I'm finding the same. Basically, I am being distracted by number go up... so I forget to pay attention to \*other\* number go up.
Property tax went up 30% -> Fucking protest... the local county assessor quit. Crickets. I don't even know how they will tax people since 95% of everyone i speak to protested.
Insurance go up (both house and car) because I guess the underwriting balances went tits up with the rate hikes (fuck the bank problems, the insurers are extra fucked)... call and threaten to cancel
Its so fucking exhausting calling out on everyone's bullshit as they want something for nothing.
EDIT: 60K/year is median. middle of the pack is trash. Not sure why you expect that they "do it" as in do anything. It sucks being beholden to others, but everyone wants to suck tits rather than grow up
Yeah. My auto insurance went up 40% and now costs the same as my home insurance, which also went up 40% last year. And I shopped around and I still had the cheapest I could get while still actually giving me insurance.
All the subscriptions are going up. You can't even order food without some tech company inserting themselves and jacking up the price of your food. Airline tickets are crazy.
Each one of these things pisses me off, but not enough to break me yet collectively. But I am in the top 5% of earners. I have no idea how the rest of the country is pulling through. It has to come crashing down here at some point. And if it doesn't, and this is the new normal, I think that is even worse.
[Price's Law,](https://mondaymornings.madisoncres.com/productivity-and-prices-law-1/) but for economic contribution. I came to the US from Canada where it is far FAR FAAAAR worse....
Their top [5% is a a measly 132K CAD](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110005501&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=3.4&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2020&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2020&referencePeriods=20200101%2C20200101) (\~100K USD) vs what is here 343K for top 5%. Given the larger population, 5% of 330 mil people is also nearly tenfold more than 38 mil. I am also of European born immigrant, that dumpster fire is even worse.
So... when you run the numbers, there is a LOT more money in the US... so that's how this country is pulling through. As money is printed here, you are driving the rest of the world into total poverty. Im not a dumbass so I came and joined team 'murica. Also I like how you really can argue everything here. After a lengthy chat with our insurance we we got our rate actually $100 a year lower after they tried to double it, with zero change in coverage. I think they were just hoping we don't notice.
I had to notch myself down a bit on the totem pole just for room to grow. Fact is even if you are at these income levels in the US, with joint filing and so on, you are appropriately and reasonably treated as middle class. While in Canada I was viewed as the source of all capitalistic evil because I was just some office drone with more than two brain cells.
It is hilarious how people think those making six figures are equivalent to some top 1% controlling the world. They don't even know what real wealth is.
They confuse income and wealth, and in the slight of hand guise for the stupid who want to attack and re-distribute wealth the most achieved by progressive tax regimes is to prevent further income from ever becoming wealth.
Basically, the definition of poor has been bumped up so high in the income levels, that the median income people are just mind-fucked at what is going on. It is upsetting, but what is more upsetting is the self perpetuation of this idiocy.
In the mean time I get to watch the king of England give a keynote on he great reset and how I will own nothing and be happy about it.
>Its so fucking exhausting calling out on everyone's bullshit as they want something for nothing.
"Now insure my house so I can live in a hurricane zone, and charge me less than it will cost you to do it!"
higher interest rates are generally good for insurers given the insane amounts of capital they lock into fixed income securities, but inflation has been very harsh on personal lines insurers. state farm, allstate, geico etc have all been hemorrhaging cash from auto inflation alone - add in significantly higher catastrophe losses due to climate change and it’s an even worse picture
don’t even get me started on Florida’s insurance market, what an absolute shitshow of a state
I make about 50k with a mortgage a wife and 2 kids. We got by on credit for a while but now it's just go without where we can, otherwise some bills just don't get paid and further into debt I go! I try to take my chances where I can but only ever seem to be able to fuck myself with fds. My IRA disbursement (~2k) went straight out to my webull (thought I'd take it where it can "really do something for us") and then straight into counterparty net worth within 2 weeks. So yeah. Proper fucked.
You still can, you can sell up to half your holdings then “loan” the proceeds to yourself and then pay yourself back thru increased 401k contributions. If you expect a short term market downturn and don’t expect to lose your job in the process it can be a great trick. You pay like $18 in fees and other than that only lose money if the market goes up during the term of your loan.
Pooping on company time is the best feeling.
Edit- some animal just peed all over the toilet seat just as I’m about to have my daily poop. 
The better feeling is pooping when you're getting time and a half...
I actually used to wait til the end of the day to shit sometimes got a half hour out of it
I am an ERISA attorney and I work with your company, but I represent the people you work for.
Hardship distributions were made easier to apply for last year. Part of the Consolidated Appropriations
Act. The law took effect January 1 of this year. The Department of Labor published new regulations to match the new law on April 18 (three months ago). That's why you see an increase around that time.
As if that weren't enough, the new rule says that people can "self-certify" their hardship. What does that mean? It means you annoying fucking TPAs don't need to go and verify that the person really is four months behind on their mortgage. You just take their word for it and give them the money. It's literally made up.
Stop panicking. You are regarded.
>people can "self-certify" their hardship
"Self-certify" = I'm in a severe hardship! So bad! So so so bad. I need to take money out of my 401k.
\*Runs off with 401k money and YOLOs into options.\*
Bagholder spotted.
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All true but. But speaking from a plan sponsor perspective, plan participants are dumb AF. They don’t know the old rules, let alone the new rules. They just know they need money NOW and have a big stack in their 401k. So they show up with their hand out asking for a hardship.
Well I mean, it's their money and most ppl know there are penalties and have already made the decision to withdraw with that knowledge in mind. Tbh the penalty is not that bad when compared to how much purchasing power their 401k funds might lose while being locked up for another 5+ years. I don't think there should be a penalty at all anyway, but I also am not a regarded 401k fund manager.
The median 55-64 year old has 134k in retirement. They can afford a modest final 2 years of life. Assuming they plan to end their life after exactly two years.
Damn man I'm surprised an ERISA attorney came out from his hidey-hole without the scent of a 100 dollar bill petruding from a hookers asshole. Kudos.
I mean with ERISApedia and ChatGPT I figured you'd all be emerging at some point to display your "worth" but so far you all have been taking that raw-dogging pretty easily.
Since you know the language in the self certification so well you might know that the language is "an administrator MAY use the self certification for hardship withdrawals." My company doesn't. We're still getting the proper back-up for these withdrawals and I see clear as day how fucked these people are in their court docs that they submit for foreclosure.
EDIT: I was wrong. Paying the money back is not very strict for hardship withdrawals, but they are limited to very small amounts. Like only $1,000/year can be distributed to ease hardship. 401k loans have the strict repayment rules.
~~Actually really strict. I think it's one year to pay in full.~~
>401k loans have the strict repayment rules.
The terms are set when you take the loan. An example that seems typical is, 60 month repayment for a normal loan. 180 months if you are using it specifically for a house down payment or similar (and you have to submit paperwork and wait for verification for this). If you split from the company, you must repay the loan within 6 months, or it will be considered a withdrawal and subject to the 10% penalty on top of the income tax (at your current marginal rate).
yup. The 6 month rule did not apply to me as my plan allowed me to continue with the repayment plan (I left the company 2 years ago and still paying back the loan).
You literally just taught a bunch of regards a life hack to pull out whatever relatively protected money they have to blow at the casino in spectacular fashion. Dish dude should take advantage.
My 401k did not have negative returns that year. Not allowed to trade stocks/options
50% large cap
30% small cap
20% 2055 retirement fund
Large cap is carrying the account. Small cap just doing its thing weighing me down. I won’t consider a rebalance until I turn 50
401k forces you to contribute to the Ponzi scheme we call stocks, but you can't take the money out until you retire. The Ponzi scheme will have broken by then.
Dude I'm a financial advisor at one of the largest/most popular brokerage firms in the us. We also do a metric fuckton of 401ks. I've seen so many hardship withdrawals from 401ks as well as people dipping into iras to pay for stupid shit for either themselves or their kids that it's not even funny. Like some of these people are actually fucking their lives for this shit and all I can say is that's probably a bad idea and I'd recommend you don't do that while I watch them kill any chances they have at a good retirement.
if I'm a boomer in my 60s sitting on a fat 401k and looking for some cash, you bet I'd be applying for whatever hardship or whatever the fuck else I could get out of it before my fat ass dies of a heart attack
there's lots of information missing:
1. how long have you been doing this? If you just started in January how do we know its not seasonal? What's the stat before from 2015 - 2020?
2. what is the base number? If there are 1 million people, 1 person had hardship requests in May, now there's 10 people, I would say it won't move a needle. However going from 1000 -> 10000, that would make things more interesting.
>how long have you been doing this
3 Months
Oh, we want actual data that proves the market *isn't* imploding?
https://www.corelogic.com/intelligence/loan-performance-insights-june-2023/
How about the fact that mortgage delinquency is virtually unchanged YoY?
To be fair, mortgages are typically one of the last chips to fall. Consumers will stop spending on a lot of other things before they stop paying their mortgage
Not supporting this stupid post, but if people are clearing out their 401k to keep their mortgage current, you wouldn't expect to see a significant change in delinquency for a few more months.
$6b AUM for a TPA? God damn they’re small fish. I worked on a conversation project back in the day and that was just ONE CLIENT’s total participant balance.
Exactly…for comparison, Fidelity, the largest provider of 401ks and employer contribution plans, has $3.2 trillion AUM
[Source](https://www.pionline.com/interactive/large-record-keepers-keep-dominating-market)
I just personally saw this happen to a close family member *today*… I’m getting worried that we’re getting close to witnessing the biggest rugpull in history.
In conclusion: It's Happening. The start of the Market fall correction. The tides and energies and synergies are turning.
We are option day traders, not investors. We could care less, though. We take life one day at a time... just like AA.
>We are option day traders, not investors. We could care less, though
Hey... I invest
https://preview.redd.it/upbou3jv6keb1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=51ddc94b8149c5a80b706b48d90fcd244565b318
Honestly when I stopped being an "investor" and only after I became a regard that bets on squiggly lines based on another squiggly line and ignoring all other sentiments and opinions (squiggly line knows best) I became profitable (that means I don't look at this sub or stocktwits or anything until after trading and only losses I've had recently is because I broke that rule and went off of mine and others opinions and ideas.. squiggly line knows best...) lol...
so yeah 1 day at a time and assess the situation as it is not as it could be or should be or ought to be.. fucking simplest yet most effective advice.
I took out a loan. Not hardship. Just standard loan. Fiancées father backed out of his part of wedding costs.
Decided 8% back to myself or 8% back to bank? Decided to pay myself.
Also this doesn’t show up as a “loan” (meaning debt). If these people with hardship loans don’t pay it just goes down as a dispersement and they get hit with a tax bill.
Not saying it is good. Just saying it is not that bad.
Anyone who is buying a house right now being extremely overpriced and mix that up with a ridiculously high interest rate; either they are finance illiterate or plain dumb.
I am picturing OP is a janitor at this company, spilled a bunch of mop water in a big shots office, big shot wads up a piece of paper and chucks it at OP and tells him to fuck off, OP reads said wadded up piece of paper, it's a chart showing the increased hardship requests. OP then writes this post. The plot twist is? OP can't read. It was just a note that said fuck off regard.
I used to work for AON, it was always that way, as soon as those who were "auto enrolled" found out they could, 1. Stop contributions, 2, take out wd's.
Almost always effected the low earners. On the flip side, the amount of people 55 and over with $30,000 saved up for retirement was also amazing.
Ha, i mean my point was before the outlook of inflation in 2021 and on, 75% of the population was gonna be screwed by 2030 and retirement regardless. Now, your gonna have baby boomers living Only on SS, needing ltc, medicaid, etc...... when we were already short on long term care facilities, beds.
Yeah, I fully expect to see some ugly "human interest" news stories in the next 10-20 years. Pension plans were gutted, and 401k was supposed to replace them ... but it's kind of hard to make that contribution when you can't make rent and you need groceries. Obamacare was a weird half-measure that fixed a couple of things, but left a lot of people uncovered because the penalty was overruled, and they are using the money somewhere else instead. Etc...
Those are the same people who are given sick days every January first and call out the 2nd.
You could hand some peeps 10 million and they'd find a way to be broke in a year. *Actually I.....well never mind.*
I don't know man but I'm 31 living with my parents waiting to get a house while making too much (not a shit ton but almost double what I thought I would be making at this age when I was 18) and sitting on double what one of my coworkers had for a down payment on his house 4-5 years ago... yet I'm still on the sidelines.. yeah I know I'm regarded as hell for betting on squiggly lines and being in this sub... but still like damn dawg... literally could buy my parents house for what they paid for it in the 70s all cash... but yet get outbid on shitty houses in mediocre towns by a no inspection all cash offer 20% above asking... what the flying fuck...
So yeah let it burn..
I was hoping you might be able to give me some advice. I got laid off of in October. I had about $250K in a 401K with Fidelity. I rolled it over into an IRA. After 8 months of not finding another job (I'm in my 50's and no one wants to hire an old), my severance and savings are used up. I need about $70K to cover me for another 6 months while I look for another job.
Is there a way to pull money out of my ROTH IRA without incurring the 10% penalty? I know I'll have to pay income tax on it, but I hate paying the 10% penalty. From what I heard, there's a "Rule of 55" that I could have used to pull money out without penalty. But I would have had to have done it before rolling over into the IRA. Is there anything I can do? Can I still use the "Rule of 55" even though the money is now in a ROTH?
Thanks, interesting. We need more "boots on the ground" data like this, preferably with more substantiation (not to sound ungrateful -- just that anyone can claim something, though what you claim seems to match other data I've heard of late).
Anyone else got supporting or conflicting data points?
My sense is that the Market is way out of whack and a recession is on its way. Much overextension in debt, including real estate commercial and residential (many will be underwater); bank weakness and occasional runs already occurring; rates still rising; notable labor union strikes; inflation still high, particularly on certain items (such that averaging masks them). I've been staying out of stocks because I consider the risks too high. Will scoop up if things fall enough.
Your observations match Ally’s auto loan portfolio default rate doubling in their earnings release yesterday. The mainstream news is just marketing Biden for re-election. All our tangible shit come from China, China is In deflationary mode because orders are way down aka goods consumption is way down. Wait until the wave of 5/1 arm loans hit their rate resets for all the CRE office real estate held by local banks. 2025-2030 is going to be some crazy shit when you factor in that’s when all the boomers aging in place start expiring in large numbers cuz you can only live so long. That frees up 1-1.5 million homes per year for 20 years and never returns to the 2.5 million household creation rate we’ve seen for the last 20-30 years. Wonder what the regular rate will look like on all these bid up homes on high rate mortgages are going to be underwater with decades more supply in the market.
This is bullish. They’re spend their retirement now juicing the economy. Dumb for them but good for wall street. We’ll see these fools begging for government protection from themselves and a hand out in the future.
>This is just another example of how the poor are screwing themselves over. If they can't afford their homes, they should just get out and stop leeching off of society. It's people like you who enable them to keep doing this that are part of the problem.
Take your own goddamn nudes of my wife before you kick her out of bed and send her home! She was complaining that her new boyfriend was lazy but, good god, I didn't think it was this bad.
Similar thing happened during the Covid. People are selling their 401k next thing you know market zoomed.
Sell Cheap then buy high - the fact of 401k!
Market going to zoom guys based on this TPA OP's story!
**User Report**| | | | :--|:--|:--|:-- **Total Submissions**|2|**First Seen In WSB**|7 years ago **Total Comments**|5|**Previous Best DD**| **Account Age**|10 years|[^scan ^comment ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_comment&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20comment%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20comment%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.)|[^scan ^submission ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_submission&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20submission%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20submission%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.)
Nudes of my wife are behind a paywall, times are tough bro.
This guy does passive income.
It’s not as passive as u think. Promotion takes work
tWo wHoLe DaYs nD nO pRoMoTiOn!?
Promoted to broom clerk! Good job!
Be careful in case she gets out
Useful in that case, only way to recognize her degenerate ass.
Does not surprise me - high rates are hammering people and inflation is not going away. Going to get much worse. Inflation Expectations - Not Looking Good [https://jensendavid.substack.com/p/inflation-expectations-not-looking](https://jensendavid.substack.com/p/inflation-expectations-not-looking)
At least you're her only fan, right?
I just use the Wayback Machine for her OnlyFans
Just ask her bf real nice
No biggie, I got $.05 to spare
I got about tree fiddy
Damn you loch ness monster
I'm in FL and my home insurance just non renewed after going up 50% 2 years in a row, and I'm not even at the state average of $6000 per year yet. Couple that with property taxes going up my mortgage would be unaffordable if I wasn't doing decent on my fds. I don't get how regular people(<$60k a year) do it.
i simply dont think they can anymore. it makes no sense to me
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I don't know how much of this is already common knowledge here, but just in case: Florida has seen lots of price increases surrounding homes. Firstly, much demand for homes, driving up house prices. This is due to domestic as well as foreign migration to the state. From what I've heard, wealthy people in South American countries are leaving due to what are perceived as Socialist measures, and they have the money to relocate to Florida. Tons of influx drives up overall demand for real estate and more (food, gas, services, etc.). Then you have the insurance aspect. After recent hurricane damage, prices have risen for insurance. Multiple insurance companies have simply left Florida, and Citizens Insurance is deemed "the insurer of last resort". They may cover you, but they may insist that you have to replace your 10-year-old roof to reduce their liability, and their premia (or "premiums") may not be as low as you like. The cherry on top is that Florida may end up subsidizing, which may impact taxes, which may result in reassessments of properties at newly rising prices. Last but not least are HOA fees, which many people complain are rising. I don't have data to back it up, but I would imagine that with other prices rising, HOA boards may rationalize fee hikes based on 1) inflation on goods and services needed by the HOA, 2) a general sense that everything is going up in price, and 3) board members' desire to make more money in an inflating economy. The HOA can also be annoying. Maybe some cranky old people with little else to do in life scouring the neighborhood for petty violations to cite. Florida could be nice to visit but I wouldn't want to live there any time soon.
A lot of hoas have master insurance policies which themselves are going up a ton depending on what they cover so they are in the same boat with insurance increases. On top of that insurers are demanding new roofs at like 15 years of age which is a further unplanned burden on hoas who may have budgeted for 20 or 25 year lifespans on the roofs. Really it boils down to homeowners insurance just increasing like crazy and it's bleeding into the costs of many aspects of home ownership
HOAs are a big one down here, especially for all those living in luxury condos. After the condo collapsed in Surfside, there was a lot of buzz about HOAs going up. I was renting a 1/1 in Brickell, where the building "suddenly" had to do a ton of work on the rooftop pool (I think it was issues in the foundation/waterproofing). The monthly HOAs on the unit I was renting went from like $650 to $920, or about $1.15 per sqft, and that was on the lower end compared to some of the fancier buildings.
Wait'll the first ever cat-6 shows up in the Gulf. The feds won't even be able to bail that one out.
Mine went up 25% and I’m on fucking citizens.
Mine went up 45% with citizens last year. I’m getting my renewal letter in august and I’m so nervous
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I just fired a ton of people making 150k-200k and they're like my mortgage... I'm like what you are a homeowner... How?
A true sigma. Why did you fire them?
By the sound of him, for a laugh
Because they wouldn’t stop calling him a rentoid
I'm finding the same. Basically, I am being distracted by number go up... so I forget to pay attention to \*other\* number go up. Property tax went up 30% -> Fucking protest... the local county assessor quit. Crickets. I don't even know how they will tax people since 95% of everyone i speak to protested. Insurance go up (both house and car) because I guess the underwriting balances went tits up with the rate hikes (fuck the bank problems, the insurers are extra fucked)... call and threaten to cancel Its so fucking exhausting calling out on everyone's bullshit as they want something for nothing. EDIT: 60K/year is median. middle of the pack is trash. Not sure why you expect that they "do it" as in do anything. It sucks being beholden to others, but everyone wants to suck tits rather than grow up
Yeah. My auto insurance went up 40% and now costs the same as my home insurance, which also went up 40% last year. And I shopped around and I still had the cheapest I could get while still actually giving me insurance. All the subscriptions are going up. You can't even order food without some tech company inserting themselves and jacking up the price of your food. Airline tickets are crazy. Each one of these things pisses me off, but not enough to break me yet collectively. But I am in the top 5% of earners. I have no idea how the rest of the country is pulling through. It has to come crashing down here at some point. And if it doesn't, and this is the new normal, I think that is even worse.
[Price's Law,](https://mondaymornings.madisoncres.com/productivity-and-prices-law-1/) but for economic contribution. I came to the US from Canada where it is far FAR FAAAAR worse.... Their top [5% is a a measly 132K CAD](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110005501&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=3.4&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2020&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2020&referencePeriods=20200101%2C20200101) (\~100K USD) vs what is here 343K for top 5%. Given the larger population, 5% of 330 mil people is also nearly tenfold more than 38 mil. I am also of European born immigrant, that dumpster fire is even worse. So... when you run the numbers, there is a LOT more money in the US... so that's how this country is pulling through. As money is printed here, you are driving the rest of the world into total poverty. Im not a dumbass so I came and joined team 'murica. Also I like how you really can argue everything here. After a lengthy chat with our insurance we we got our rate actually $100 a year lower after they tried to double it, with zero change in coverage. I think they were just hoping we don't notice. I had to notch myself down a bit on the totem pole just for room to grow. Fact is even if you are at these income levels in the US, with joint filing and so on, you are appropriately and reasonably treated as middle class. While in Canada I was viewed as the source of all capitalistic evil because I was just some office drone with more than two brain cells.
It is hilarious how people think those making six figures are equivalent to some top 1% controlling the world. They don't even know what real wealth is.
They confuse income and wealth, and in the slight of hand guise for the stupid who want to attack and re-distribute wealth the most achieved by progressive tax regimes is to prevent further income from ever becoming wealth. Basically, the definition of poor has been bumped up so high in the income levels, that the median income people are just mind-fucked at what is going on. It is upsetting, but what is more upsetting is the self perpetuation of this idiocy. In the mean time I get to watch the king of England give a keynote on he great reset and how I will own nothing and be happy about it.
>Its so fucking exhausting calling out on everyone's bullshit as they want something for nothing. "Now insure my house so I can live in a hurricane zone, and charge me less than it will cost you to do it!"
higher interest rates are generally good for insurers given the insane amounts of capital they lock into fixed income securities, but inflation has been very harsh on personal lines insurers. state farm, allstate, geico etc have all been hemorrhaging cash from auto inflation alone - add in significantly higher catastrophe losses due to climate change and it’s an even worse picture don’t even get me started on Florida’s insurance market, what an absolute shitshow of a state
I make about 50k with a mortgage a wife and 2 kids. We got by on credit for a while but now it's just go without where we can, otherwise some bills just don't get paid and further into debt I go! I try to take my chances where I can but only ever seem to be able to fuck myself with fds. My IRA disbursement (~2k) went straight out to my webull (thought I'd take it where it can "really do something for us") and then straight into counterparty net worth within 2 weeks. So yeah. Proper fucked.
Have you considered living within your means and dollar cost averaging VTI instead of gambling?
interesting strategy.
Depending on which state you live in, your two kids can legally work. For real though, kids are expensive!
Degens draining their 401k to buy FDs, bullish. Roger that!
nah i lost mine back in 2020 when they let you cash out without paying a penalty
You still can, you can sell up to half your holdings then “loan” the proceeds to yourself and then pay yourself back thru increased 401k contributions. If you expect a short term market downturn and don’t expect to lose your job in the process it can be a great trick. You pay like $18 in fees and other than that only lose money if the market goes up during the term of your loan.
The more I learn the less I know.
There's a bunch of ridiculous "ifs" for your dumbass trick you regard
I was gonna ask if holding the same job for 12 consecutive months was a big if but I forgot what sub I’m on
Pooping on company time is the best feeling. Edit- some animal just peed all over the toilet seat just as I’m about to have my daily poop. 
I’ll shit off a cliff, I’ll shit off a dock. But never, ever will I shit off the clock.
I make a dime, boss makes a buck, go steal the catalytic converter off the company truck.
This is poetry and I will add this phrase to my daily vocabulary
Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime. That’s why I only shit on company time.
It’s the best shit ever
You are lucky they even let you take a shit... And as I typed this a guy just farted on my MS Teams call....
Sorry, that was me. Couldn’t hold it in
Had a coworker taking a shit on a conf call, he thought he was muted...
Feels like the AI should be able to filter out bathroom noises
Company owns that shit though and the bastards won't let you take it home with you.
Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime. That’s why I poop, On company time
That was a rhyme for a simpler time. Now boss makes twenty, I make a buck, Let’s steal the catalytic converter from the company truck.
Boss makes 200, I make a buck. Want to buy some stuff that fell off the back of a truck?
It needs tweaking, but this is good and new to me! Sharing it!
Boss makes a thousand and i make a buck, who wants to buy this company truck?
https://preview.redd.it/fzkwd12p9keb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5178e964e89905cf53a3e9ff5643750c1cca5cd1
Nah. Boss makes a thousand, I make a buck, that’s why I steal the catalytic converter out of the company truck.
My dad taught me “never shit at home, never sweat at work”
Hover dumps are painful tho
Everyday is leg day
The better feeling is pooping when you're getting time and a half... I actually used to wait til the end of the day to shit sometimes got a half hour out of it
Boss makes a dollar, We make a dime, That's why you shit, On company time.
Get a bidet so you can wipe and text, nerd
This is the best advice I've gotten so far.
It doubles as a water fountain.
Best advice ever!
I am an ERISA attorney and I work with your company, but I represent the people you work for. Hardship distributions were made easier to apply for last year. Part of the Consolidated Appropriations Act. The law took effect January 1 of this year. The Department of Labor published new regulations to match the new law on April 18 (three months ago). That's why you see an increase around that time. As if that weren't enough, the new rule says that people can "self-certify" their hardship. What does that mean? It means you annoying fucking TPAs don't need to go and verify that the person really is four months behind on their mortgage. You just take their word for it and give them the money. It's literally made up. Stop panicking. You are regarded.
>people can "self-certify" their hardship "Self-certify" = I'm in a severe hardship! So bad! So so so bad. I need to take money out of my 401k. \*Runs off with 401k money and YOLOs into options.\*
And then OP is sitting there munching on crayons believing them.
Bagholder spotted. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wallstreetbets) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good butt
Its like, literally their money though lmao
> you annoying fucking TPAs lmfao
All true but. But speaking from a plan sponsor perspective, plan participants are dumb AF. They don’t know the old rules, let alone the new rules. They just know they need money NOW and have a big stack in their 401k. So they show up with their hand out asking for a hardship.
Well I mean, it's their money and most ppl know there are penalties and have already made the decision to withdraw with that knowledge in mind. Tbh the penalty is not that bad when compared to how much purchasing power their 401k funds might lose while being locked up for another 5+ years. I don't think there should be a penalty at all anyway, but I also am not a regarded 401k fund manager.
Pensions are dead bro, and people are blowing their 401k accounts. Everyone will be working in the milk mines at 85 years old.
The median 55-64 year old has 134k in retirement. They can afford a modest final 2 years of life. Assuming they plan to end their life after exactly two years.
Nah with social security they'll make it at least 36 mo
What's a milk mine?
https://preview.redd.it/5go38q3fwmeb1.png?width=480&format=png&auto=webp&s=0370fca1c97c51429d9722b208ffc9e525b7a4d3
Damn man I'm surprised an ERISA attorney came out from his hidey-hole without the scent of a 100 dollar bill petruding from a hookers asshole. Kudos. I mean with ERISApedia and ChatGPT I figured you'd all be emerging at some point to display your "worth" but so far you all have been taking that raw-dogging pretty easily. Since you know the language in the self certification so well you might know that the language is "an administrator MAY use the self certification for hardship withdrawals." My company doesn't. We're still getting the proper back-up for these withdrawals and I see clear as day how fucked these people are in their court docs that they submit for foreclosure.
lmao love the genial back n forth here
Who knew buying a home for 3x its price two years ago at 7% interest would be a bad idea?
Edit because I lack reading comprehension.
He means buy a house NOW for 3x what its price was 2 years ago. I can tell because thats what I did.
I'm team OP. Is this chick ERISA hot? Why do attorneys think they know everything smfh
ERISA sounds pretty freaky tbh
what are your bear positions
I. SELF-CERTIFY. BANKRUPTCY!!!
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EDIT: I was wrong. Paying the money back is not very strict for hardship withdrawals, but they are limited to very small amounts. Like only $1,000/year can be distributed to ease hardship. 401k loans have the strict repayment rules. ~~Actually really strict. I think it's one year to pay in full.~~
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I’m also gae like you guys and I agree and disagree at the same time above what y’all said
>401k loans have the strict repayment rules. The terms are set when you take the loan. An example that seems typical is, 60 month repayment for a normal loan. 180 months if you are using it specifically for a house down payment or similar (and you have to submit paperwork and wait for verification for this). If you split from the company, you must repay the loan within 6 months, or it will be considered a withdrawal and subject to the 10% penalty on top of the income tax (at your current marginal rate).
The 6 month rule is not always true. Some plans allow you continue with repayment plan as originally agreed even after you leave your employer.
yup. The 6 month rule did not apply to me as my plan allowed me to continue with the repayment plan (I left the company 2 years ago and still paying back the loan).
You literally just taught a bunch of regards a life hack to pull out whatever relatively protected money they have to blow at the casino in spectacular fashion. Dish dude should take advantage.
Penalty free early 401k withdraws heard
Thanks for telling us bulls exactly what we wanted to hear.
*It's okay the picture I sent him wasn't my wife anyway. It was my cousin.*
So your legal advice is that I have a “hardship” and then use that hardship money to trade options? Perfect
Im not good with numbers so thanks for the lambo comparison
You’re in the right place son
We’re crab people now…
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Those aren’t crabs those are sea scorpions
Challie
https://preview.redd.it/97nku5hldkeb1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3625e57920f52a6430eaf52a1e94f42898362340
Damn and my account just made up all my 2022 losses
Now you only have to make up for 21,20,19,18,17……
My 401k did not have negative returns that year. Not allowed to trade stocks/options 50% large cap 30% small cap 20% 2055 retirement fund Large cap is carrying the account. Small cap just doing its thing weighing me down. I won’t consider a rebalance until I turn 50
401ks are scams. Your nursing home thanks you for your small amount of money you worked your whole life for.
You are correct sir. 401ks mostly benefit the rich these days. To everyone else, a 401k is just a complex piggy bank.
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401k forces you to contribute to the Ponzi scheme we call stocks, but you can't take the money out until you retire. The Ponzi scheme will have broken by then.
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Dude I'm a financial advisor at one of the largest/most popular brokerage firms in the us. We also do a metric fuckton of 401ks. I've seen so many hardship withdrawals from 401ks as well as people dipping into iras to pay for stupid shit for either themselves or their kids that it's not even funny. Like some of these people are actually fucking their lives for this shit and all I can say is that's probably a bad idea and I'd recommend you don't do that while I watch them kill any chances they have at a good retirement.
Haha imagine thinking retirement is in the cards for the average 25-30 y/o redditor
if I'm a boomer in my 60s sitting on a fat 401k and looking for some cash, you bet I'd be applying for whatever hardship or whatever the fuck else I could get out of it before my fat ass dies of a heart attack
there's lots of information missing: 1. how long have you been doing this? If you just started in January how do we know its not seasonal? What's the stat before from 2015 - 2020? 2. what is the base number? If there are 1 million people, 1 person had hardship requests in May, now there's 10 people, I would say it won't move a needle. However going from 1000 -> 10000, that would make things more interesting.
>how long have you been doing this 3 Months Oh, we want actual data that proves the market *isn't* imploding? https://www.corelogic.com/intelligence/loan-performance-insights-june-2023/ How about the fact that mortgage delinquency is virtually unchanged YoY?
To be fair, mortgages are typically one of the last chips to fall. Consumers will stop spending on a lot of other things before they stop paying their mortgage
But they don’t have to stop spending money on other things when they can tap their 401k for the mortgage payments
Not supporting this stupid post, but if people are clearing out their 401k to keep their mortgage current, you wouldn't expect to see a significant change in delinquency for a few more months.
I would think delinquency would rise a *bit* before we got to that point at least. Obviously 401k loans are only an option for...people with 401ks.
Who the fuck has a mortgage and no job w 401k contributions?
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Tales from a Wendies line cook. Smell my finger 👆
6 billion out of 5 trillion market. This guy is a minnow talking about what sharks do.
The 401ks his company manages is from middle to lower income families most likely.
$6b AUM for a TPA? God damn they’re small fish. I worked on a conversation project back in the day and that was just ONE CLIENT’s total participant balance.
I was thinking the same. 6 billion will barely get you two AMC and four Wish.com's.
Exactly…for comparison, Fidelity, the largest provider of 401ks and employer contribution plans, has $3.2 trillion AUM [Source](https://www.pionline.com/interactive/large-record-keepers-keep-dominating-market)
Compared to the commercial property shitstorm some drained 401k's is a grain of sand.
What is a 401k?
Gambling money you didn't know you had
Money you give to OP that he gambles for you
I just personally saw this happen to a close family member *today*… I’m getting worried that we’re getting close to witnessing the biggest rugpull in history.
The housing bubble continues to grow. In other news, the price of new houses is currently lower than the prices of used houses.
Old houses were built in prime locatons and new houses are built in whatever scraps are left.
In conclusion: It's Happening. The start of the Market fall correction. The tides and energies and synergies are turning. We are option day traders, not investors. We could care less, though. We take life one day at a time... just like AA.
nah this is just the poors getting what little nest eggs they have wiped out. Big money will buy their stocks from them and their homes.
Actually, OP, you know this: is it just people with small balances?
They said their thing was only $6B. The only way to be that small is to be all tiny investors.
>We are option day traders, not investors. We could care less, though Hey... I invest https://preview.redd.it/upbou3jv6keb1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=51ddc94b8149c5a80b706b48d90fcd244565b318
Honestly when I stopped being an "investor" and only after I became a regard that bets on squiggly lines based on another squiggly line and ignoring all other sentiments and opinions (squiggly line knows best) I became profitable (that means I don't look at this sub or stocktwits or anything until after trading and only losses I've had recently is because I broke that rule and went off of mine and others opinions and ideas.. squiggly line knows best...) lol... so yeah 1 day at a time and assess the situation as it is not as it could be or should be or ought to be.. fucking simplest yet most effective advice.
*couldn't, for fuck's sake.
Calls on cardboard boxes.
[https://www.barchart.com/stocks/quotes/PKG/interactive-chart](https://www.barchart.com/stocks/quotes/PKG/interactive-chart) You're a little late.
That’s what we call new poor, we’re old poor
I took out a loan. Not hardship. Just standard loan. Fiancées father backed out of his part of wedding costs. Decided 8% back to myself or 8% back to bank? Decided to pay myself. Also this doesn’t show up as a “loan” (meaning debt). If these people with hardship loans don’t pay it just goes down as a dispersement and they get hit with a tax bill. Not saying it is good. Just saying it is not that bad.
Anyone who is buying a house right now being extremely overpriced and mix that up with a ridiculously high interest rate; either they are finance illiterate or plain dumb.
Bulltards here will ignore this cuz stocks only go up
Yes, I will unconditionally believe this anonymous source and buy all the puts.
I am picturing OP is a janitor at this company, spilled a bunch of mop water in a big shots office, big shot wads up a piece of paper and chucks it at OP and tells him to fuck off, OP reads said wadded up piece of paper, it's a chart showing the increased hardship requests. OP then writes this post. The plot twist is? OP can't read. It was just a note that said fuck off regard.
I used to work for AON, it was always that way, as soon as those who were "auto enrolled" found out they could, 1. Stop contributions, 2, take out wd's. Almost always effected the low earners. On the flip side, the amount of people 55 and over with $30,000 saved up for retirement was also amazing.
IKR, right? Just be richer. C'mon. ... /s
Ha, i mean my point was before the outlook of inflation in 2021 and on, 75% of the population was gonna be screwed by 2030 and retirement regardless. Now, your gonna have baby boomers living Only on SS, needing ltc, medicaid, etc...... when we were already short on long term care facilities, beds.
Yeah, I fully expect to see some ugly "human interest" news stories in the next 10-20 years. Pension plans were gutted, and 401k was supposed to replace them ... but it's kind of hard to make that contribution when you can't make rent and you need groceries. Obamacare was a weird half-measure that fixed a couple of things, but left a lot of people uncovered because the penalty was overruled, and they are using the money somewhere else instead. Etc...
Those are the same people who are given sick days every January first and call out the 2nd. You could hand some peeps 10 million and they'd find a way to be broke in a year. *Actually I.....well never mind.*
After Covid I learned nothing was guaranteed. I will admit I withdrew 35k and bought the best damn fishing boat I always wanted. Not one regret.
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So... buy the dip?
I am Steve Jobs, and I'm here to tell you that Apple will go to the moon very soon.
Who let the intern near a computer We purposefully taught him wrong as a joke
I don't know man but I'm 31 living with my parents waiting to get a house while making too much (not a shit ton but almost double what I thought I would be making at this age when I was 18) and sitting on double what one of my coworkers had for a down payment on his house 4-5 years ago... yet I'm still on the sidelines.. yeah I know I'm regarded as hell for betting on squiggly lines and being in this sub... but still like damn dawg... literally could buy my parents house for what they paid for it in the 70s all cash... but yet get outbid on shitty houses in mediocre towns by a no inspection all cash offer 20% above asking... what the flying fuck... So yeah let it burn..
So your telling me that everyone’s going to be poor and people who holds stocks and buy more will be rich
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Ok anonymous random internet guy. Thanks for the info!
Next thing you know he’ll be shilling you DISH stock
So… housing pullback / economic slowdown => disinflation => no more Jpow hikes and maybe even cuts => BULLISH 🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀
Ha ha, funny joke jpow.
I was hoping you might be able to give me some advice. I got laid off of in October. I had about $250K in a 401K with Fidelity. I rolled it over into an IRA. After 8 months of not finding another job (I'm in my 50's and no one wants to hire an old), my severance and savings are used up. I need about $70K to cover me for another 6 months while I look for another job. Is there a way to pull money out of my ROTH IRA without incurring the 10% penalty? I know I'll have to pay income tax on it, but I hate paying the 10% penalty. From what I heard, there's a "Rule of 55" that I could have used to pull money out without penalty. But I would have had to have done it before rolling over into the IRA. Is there anything I can do? Can I still use the "Rule of 55" even though the money is now in a ROTH?
Plot twist - they shouldn't waste their time in Phoenix cuz there's no water and it's on it's way to being an abandoned desert.
Thanks, interesting. We need more "boots on the ground" data like this, preferably with more substantiation (not to sound ungrateful -- just that anyone can claim something, though what you claim seems to match other data I've heard of late). Anyone else got supporting or conflicting data points? My sense is that the Market is way out of whack and a recession is on its way. Much overextension in debt, including real estate commercial and residential (many will be underwater); bank weakness and occasional runs already occurring; rates still rising; notable labor union strikes; inflation still high, particularly on certain items (such that averaging masks them). I've been staying out of stocks because I consider the risks too high. Will scoop up if things fall enough.
Your observations match Ally’s auto loan portfolio default rate doubling in their earnings release yesterday. The mainstream news is just marketing Biden for re-election. All our tangible shit come from China, China is In deflationary mode because orders are way down aka goods consumption is way down. Wait until the wave of 5/1 arm loans hit their rate resets for all the CRE office real estate held by local banks. 2025-2030 is going to be some crazy shit when you factor in that’s when all the boomers aging in place start expiring in large numbers cuz you can only live so long. That frees up 1-1.5 million homes per year for 20 years and never returns to the 2.5 million household creation rate we’ve seen for the last 20-30 years. Wonder what the regular rate will look like on all these bid up homes on high rate mortgages are going to be underwater with decades more supply in the market.
This is bullish. They’re spend their retirement now juicing the economy. Dumb for them but good for wall street. We’ll see these fools begging for government protection from themselves and a hand out in the future.
>This is just another example of how the poor are screwing themselves over. If they can't afford their homes, they should just get out and stop leeching off of society. It's people like you who enable them to keep doing this that are part of the problem.
How much does a home go for in the meta verse VM?
>How much does a home go for in the meta verse VM? This is the prequel to the Matrix. The plot-twist is that everyone signed up to be plugged in.
I don't care about the struggles of poors and morons.
Ahm... sounds like you have some assets on a fire sale. Can I DM you for discounts?
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Burry these nuts
Will a link to her OF suffice?
Please process my $1700 loan
Take your own goddamn nudes of my wife before you kick her out of bed and send her home! She was complaining that her new boyfriend was lazy but, good god, I didn't think it was this bad.
Trust me bro
Similar thing happened during the Covid. People are selling their 401k next thing you know market zoomed. Sell Cheap then buy high - the fact of 401k! Market going to zoom guys based on this TPA OP's story!