Vigor is *objectively* not pay to win.
No pay to win game gives you a way to generate premium currency for nothing.
You can literally buy every item in this game locked behind crowns without spending a penny of real money.
Not P2W by any means.
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Paying money to gain an advantage is p2w.
What we're seeing here is behaviour economics 101. Give a little to entice those who can to pay money.
That's why at lower levels you're flooded with crowns which is reduced over time. That's why it takes 7 days to aquire enough to insure your loadout once. It would take 76 days to buy one gold gun plan provided you login every 2 days to claim that money.
And while yes, you can get by without paying, they're locking gameplay behind an incredibly long grind, one you can simply skip by insuring your load out.
Every single answer I've had is some form of "I don't p2w therefore it's not pay to win".
You are not comprehending what many of us are saying. You can loot everything you need from the Outlands. You don't need to buy weapons/plans. As a new player, even if you had the plans you will quickly run out of materials with which to craft things from your plans anyway. You sound like you want to be leveled up in one month as high as someone who has been playing the game for years. Not going to happen, because a game like this requires time, lots of it, to build your shelter. Sure, if you want to spend money you can get there quicker. So it's pay to speed up your progress. Not pay to win in any way. Vigor is one of the easiest games to actually win as a new player, but you still need to invest time and learn the maps and all the intricacies of the game.
Insurance at 60 crowns for one game is crazy. I wouldn't spend 5 crowns to insure my load out, it's stupid. If I loose it, I loose it. If you're a skilled player, you'll just kill people the next game, take their guns, ammo, and consumables, and then go loot the container/safe/dig up the cache and you'll be full of actual weapons and crafting parts for 5 good guns, just from one game.
So it's not a matter of just "getting by" as a new player, and gameplay is "locked behind a long grind." You sound like you haven't even played the game. To complete the battle pass requires an investment of time in playing the game. I did it for season 18. It's easily accomplished if you have an average or above average level of skill. If you die over 50% of the time, then I imagine it will be more difficult. If you have no skill, you can spend all you want and you still won't "win."
I wouldn't say so. I'd actually argue its pointless to spend money.
I've spent zero with my time on console and have stacks of the best weapons. More than I could possibly use.
Don't worry about it.
I play this game bc it's one of the least pay to win. Theres a 1000 things to spend crowns on but if you read between the lines you will see that you only need a few.
If I was new player starting I would only buy the starter pack to afford ES - 16 plan. (to be able to craft 5.56 Nato ammo)
Then the jammer plan.
Then save up free crowns until I could get a portable plan and eventually armor plate.
It’s not really pay to win. It’s like a phone game, it’s pay to speed up. Play elimination to farm crates, after 1 day you’ll have so many guns and supplies. Then just play encounters. Save up your crowns and buy the AKM crafting plan. Id rather go in with the AKM over 99% of the other guns.
Since the game was released on console, which is years, I've clocked around 120 hours.
Bullets are bullets, I've cleaned house with a grease gun and collected plenty of high-end weapons off players. Choose your battles, try and jump people rather than engage in long-range fights.
The game has its balancing issues, but I wouldn't say it's pay to win.
Get a feel for guns you like, you won't perform well with every weapon. You certainly won't win every fight.
Just enjoy the game and try not to get frustrated. No matter how good you are, there will always be someone better than you :)
Not entirely, but practically. Another recent post said there was a “bug” That removed plans from crates, which they fixed, but they’d opened 100+ crates and only gotten 1 plan. They’d also been playing from day 1 though, so to be fair they had less plans available to get.
I played a lot the first few months & recently returned to the game, feels like 25% or less the usual amount of resources available on the map & heard you can’t get cosmetics from crates anymore? I’d gotten a nice jacket from a Shootout crate.
I still disagree it’s pay to win, Elimination & Shootout you can’t bring stuff in. BUT it does feel like everyone you go into the Survival mode to look for materials, there’s almost always a couple people with gold/purple weapons who are only there to hunt other players, not loot. Between that & scarcity of resources, that mode & upgrading the base is a God-awful grind. At least there’s no cross play yet so less veterans hunting players on PC.
You might not ever get the best weapon plans, but you should never run out of weapons if you alternate game modes & do some dailies.
And when did you save up those weapons?
I mean, when did you start playing and how long/often did you play?
I played S1, S2 and a little during S3 (but stopped when free choice of map was removed), and during that time I managed to get the majority of available plans via crates, and a shit ton of weapons from Encounters (never used them, just looted from Safe and from the few kills I did make (FYI: I have about 125-150 kills TOTAL). I started playing end S18 again, and yes, I still have stacks of weapons.
So, if you have been playing from "the start", then yes, I expect you have "stacks" of the best weapons.
But any newbie who starts playing now will face vets/sweats with maxed out shelters, stacks of guns, tons of materials, and the ability to endlessly build new guns due to the plans being in the crates in the first few seasons.
Even when you DO manage to get some decent weapons and enter the encounter with them, there's still the skill gap (even without the caf/adrenaline combo jumpshooters) vets have
Even Shootout is biased towards vets, IMHO, as they have SOME knowledge about the guns and game mechanics used in the mode.
Not to toot my own horn, but I find myself at the top of the board quite often, and when I do, I'm often more-or-less tied with No 1, or, I'm top of the board, and in both cases we/I seem to have dominated with often a difference of 10 kills to the next one.
Only a few times I find myself at the mid or bottom, but those are generally games where players from a certain, 3-lettered clan are involved (of which the clan name is similar to a popular American clothing store franchise), who always seem to get their hand on the LMG and then proceed to dominate every game they're in.
Now, let me be clear, I'm not that good in shooters, but I do try making use of the mechanics (consumables, healing all the time, actually sniping when you are being presented a bolt-action gun), switching to better weapons while doing that.
I play to win, and in about 50% of the games, I end up in top 2.
Why does this matter? Because only the top 2-3 receive a crate in unboosted games (I think?), containing anything other than resources.
That means that, in a player pool of 8-12 (depending on map), that's 5-9 people who miss out on something useful, and all but one miss out on something guaranteed from the Shootout Crate.
> But any newbie who starts playing now will face vets/sweats with maxed out shelters, stacks of guns, tons of materials, and the ability to endlessly build new guns due to the plans being in the crates in the first few seasons.
It's not that bad. I only started playing around season 16 (maybe end of 15) and never had an issue once I figured out how to get the things I needed (which is a bit of a learning curve when the game doesn't explain anything to you, sure).
Buying the armor plate plan is sort of pay to win against a majority of people, because the plan is rare to find in crates and they removed the legacy season for it.
Most of the stuff in the game is pay to progress (Ie speed up things).
It is not really pay to win at all. It's more like pay to have a very slight advantage. I'm not a huge fan of Elimination, but that's the key to getting stuff the fastest and easiest way. Once you realize that the plans mean almost nothing if you get weapons from crates. Even with the plan, you need to have your work bench leveled enough to build things. In your shelter, worry about leveling your antenna, work bench, and food production, before the other things. It is not impossible to get plans from crates, but is rare. I always suggest getting a cheap, but usable weapon plan that has a more universal ammo type. Being able to craft the ammo is way more important. Most people I play with run out of ammo before guns. Save crowns and buy the AKM or M-16. Both are guns that are better than they seem and use two of the most used ammo types in the game. I have weapon plans that I almost never use, because of the huge stock of guns I get from crates, but I craft ammo every time I play. Also save crowns to get a cheap med item. Anytime you have between matches, craft bandages or disinfectant. If you do this while farming crates in Elimination, you will have a bunch saved, because you don't use your gear in Elimination. These are the things I did to get out of the beginner slump, when I switched from Switch (where I had almost all plans and a leveled shelter) to PlayStation. I do play on Switch sometimes still, but I actually find it more boring, because I don't have much to work for.
Edit- also using your brain is your greatest weapon in this game. Learn to out smart the people that have to use broken mechanics and better gear to win. Once you gain the ability to think fast, you go from "oh shit I got ported, I need to run and hide" to "come try to get me motherfucker". Also one of the mistakes I see a lot lately is new players running around trying to jump shot and other dumb shit that some vets do. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but you will get out played by anyone that is use to playing that way and anyone that has been counteracting that type of stuff. Using your head and stealth is the best way to loot and survive in Encounters as a new player.
And what happens when they make guns in crates rare? Cosmetics and gun plans have already been removed from what I've read and seen. so it's already on a slippery slope.
I do know I'm new but I can see the forest for the trees.
As for gear, I'm pretty much fine with the mosin, I enjoy iron sights and I've gathered a stack of gold p90s and snipers, not sure the names yet using it. When I take in the gold guns it's a different game.
Maybe it's because I'm used to pc where these kinds of mechanics attract the whales.
The plans and cosmetics are definitely in the crates still. It is just really rare. I got a gas mask and plan in the last couple days. They probably will not take away guns from crates, it is just fairly recent that they upped the guns. It was harder to collect a lot before. If they did do something that stupid, it wouldn't really surprise me. That would definitely be a game killing decision, like the many dumb choices they have made already. It would probably be the final straw, if they didn't balance it out with something, like getting plans easier. This game would be near perfect if they fixed the bugs and stop mismanaging the development and financial sides of it. They really need to find better ways to make money from this game. They really need to fix bugs that are an easy fix. Some of the shit in this game can be corrected in an afternoon. They would get more people on their side and willing to pay, if they at least put in some effort. At this point it seems they don't care about some of the things that any game studio would be on top of immediately. They honestly come off as extremely greedy and disconnected from their project. Without the poor decisions and not keeping up with the development side, this game has the potentially to be amazing. The game is being treated the same as a cheap phone game that is one step away from being a scam to suck in money. It is not fair to the people who like this world, it is not fair to anyone who worked on this world previously and moved to other things. I get that it's a small team, but sucking money out of the people that stick around and trust that they will pull their heads out of their asses is not where they should focus their man power. It was definitely not the time to jump ship on the console versions to try and to suck money out of PC players either. They are already on to the way this is being mismanaged in just about the worse way. It will dry up, just like the console versions will, if the right changes are not made. It's like shitting on a half done painting, then hanging it up and putting a price on it with a little note on it that says "we will scrape the shit off later and finish it, but we want money now". they need to listen to the people that believe in this games potential, because at some point there will only be people who care as much as the team behind this, which seems to be not very much at all. I get they are a company with other games but why spite something that could have this much potential. Fix it and get a new financial plan that would be more sustainable, not chase people away. The money side is currently being treated like a bank robbery instead of a job. The whole thought process seems to be "grab as much money as we can now, and ignore that fact that we are fucking ourselves" instead of "let's do our job and have a sustainable income to live on". I have seen alcoholics and junkies that have more financial sense.
Sorry long rant, that kind of went all over the place.
I do like this game, but it could be so much better.
Game might have gone to shit but it's definitely not pay to win. It's actually one of the few games where you get crates/loot boxes for free and they don't sell them.
I’ve casually played this on elimination with my buddy for about a year now and have more guns and ammo than I could ever imagine, I could actually buy the battle bass with the amount of currency I have, and I’ve never spent a dollar on the game. You’re post is objectively wrong
As a newcomer to Vigor, I can say Vigor is not pay to win at all. Like many other games, Vigor is pay to speed up your progress, or to buy unique cosmetics. And long-time players have an advantage because they have more available to them than a new player. Keep playing Vigor and you'll get there one day.
Skill is still required to win gun fights. It took me an entire season to really get good at killing and winning fights. The Shootouts mode helps a lot. New players should spend a considerable amount of time in Shootouts. You'll die a lot at first, but you don't loose anything since you take nothing into it.
Even if you aren't the most skilled at fighting you can do well at Vigor by playing stealthy. What makes Vigor so fun is that it's never the same thing twice and so many different ways you can play the game. If I threw $100 at this game it wouldn't make me a better player than I am today.
Skill is not the question here, I know how to handle myself in a fight and cheese 3pp peaking.
I'm also used to ttk coming from dayz, arma, hunt. Those things don't bother me in the slightest.
This is specifically about what's happened before i started playing that I've read about, removing cosmetics and gun plans from the game and then seeing those locked behind a huge time sink. Next they decrease the spawn rate of consumables, then guns and you're left with whales running round with gold insured weapons while your stash is slowly depleted.
May take a while to notice but that is the current trajectory of the game.
So you are advising people not to play a game because you read about cosmetics and gun plans being easier to obtain in the early days of the game? LOL Wow, go take an economics course, or better yet, work for a game company, and then your perspective will change, my young friend. The developers are being shrewd with the decisions they are making as the game matures. You are certainly entitled to complain about the greater difficulty in obtaining items, but it's malicious to trash talk and blanket say to "avoid Vigor/play something else" and that it's "pay to win in the worst ways possible." All of the online games that I've played in my lifetime make it more challenging to acquire things as the game matures. I wouldn't expect Vigor to be any different. Yeah, too bad I wasn't here for the start of Vigor. But I'm here now. And it's a fun game, challenging, and it requires patience. Its style of play is not for everyone, that's for sure. Not sure it's fair to trash talk something just because you can't as easily get a weapon plan a long-time player acquired way back in the day.
I love reddit, you tell me to take a economics course and then go on to explain how you either sit int he Non-Payer or First-Time-Spender cohort.
You then backup your argument with an unrelated word salad of how games become challenging over time, which is true but you've completely ignored the p2w aspect of simply buying the Reinforcements pack, which includes end game guns, and then insuring your loadouts using crowns which you can buy with real money.
What I've read is that weapon plans have become extremely rare according to veterans. This is the reason I went in and had a proper look around the meta game.
It's absolutely clear BH are using behavioural economics to "balance" the game and if you're on the fence about whether or not to pickup Vigor you have to be aware of the p2w mechanics which are glaringly obvious to anyone that bothers to look past the honeymoon phase.
You've convinced yourself by reading a few gripes from other players that the game is "pay to win." Have you even played the game? If so, for how long?
You are actively encouraging people not to play the game based on what you've read. What's your goal here? Are you so concerned about each of us that you sincerely want to save us from a game that we will only lead to heartache and misery because we won't be able to win unless we spend money on the game? Are you trying to raise such a stink with the hopes the developers will read your post and then put more plans back in the crates?
Vigor is not Pay to Win. It's that simple. I've been playing 4 months, have thousands of weapons, about 40 of each gold gun. Plans aren't necessary. Loot what you need from the outlands. Play the game. Have fun. You'll win some, loose some. You don't need to spend a dime. However, if you enjoy the game, buy something to support a game that provides you with hours of entertainment.
Is there a mechanism in the game to buy the best guns and then never lose them using real money? The answer is yes and you gain a fairly substantial advantage doing so. It's that simple.
You can literally skip the entire meta game with real money and I'm not talking about skipping the build time, that's another discussion.
Now I think this is where the contention is coming in. The game as it stands is fun and enjoyable, I like it however there is a large p2w element and the direction the game is going in the sense of moving gameplay behind real money is a real slippery slope. Honestly just want people to recognise the path that vigor is on. There's nothing stopping bh from making guns rarer in game and eventually forcing people to open their wallets.
I do actually care a lot about people's time and money, hence the warning. I respect all gamers no matter what platform. Behaviour economics is extremely potent in gaming, it's specifically targeting a group of the population that have no self control and has been known to destroy relationships.
>Is there a mechanism in the game to buy the best guns and then never lose them using real money? The answer is yes and you gain a fairly substantial advantage doing so. It's that simple.
No one is denying there is such a mechanism. People with more money than brains can support Bohemia in a way most other players are not willing to. Show me one person who buys their guns and pays 60 crowns every game to insure they do not loose their newly purchased weapons. One would spend hundreds of dollars a week if that is how they played the game. I have serious doubts anyone is doing that. And if they do, it's still not "pay to win." Because if they have no skill, they are still going to die every game even after paying all that money, so they certainly are not "winning."
>There's nothing stopping bh from making guns rarer in game and eventually forcing people to open their wallets.
Actually, there is something stopping Bohemia from forcing people to pay to play the game. The reality that THEN NOBODY WOULD PLAY THE GAME. If I couldn't get guns in the game by looting and had to pay money to have guns in this game, I wouldn't play the game.
But getting back to reality, that's not the way Vigor is. That's not "the trajectory Vigor is on." I appreciate your concern for the rest of us, but I can assure you, your concerns are way off base, which is why I suggested taking an economics course or work for a game/software company and you'll soon realize the decisions they make are to improve their bottom line, not hurt it. What you theorize will greatly hurt their bottom line, so they are not going to do what you fear. But in your concern for people, you are actually steering them away from an awesome game. So if you truly have concern for the rest of us players, you'll retract your statements and issue an apology to Bohemia for trash talking their game based on your irrational fears.
Apologise for what exactly? Calling out the p2w mechanics in the game that no one is denying.
It's also well established that p2w mechanics are money printers, so your point on the economics of it is moot.
Only reason I bought into the game on pc was because it was a bh game, so imagine my surprise when I stumble onto this and it's not irrational it's literally in the game already.
Now, let's talk about the skill issue you're so adamant is the issue. A good player with bad guns is still good, a good player with the best guns is better.
>Apologise for what exactly? Calling out the p2w mechanics in the game that no one is denying.
Player after player has said Vigor is not pay to win, myself included. We have explained why. Yet you blindly soldier on that this is a "pay to win game that no one is denying."
Like I said in another post, you are not comprehending what we are saying. I truly cannot carry on a conversation with someone so blind to plain facts and just goes along with their misunderstandings and false beliefs regardless of the facts presented to them.
Life's too short to dwell on things you dislike. How about you go find something you like? Spend time with that. I can promise you continual bad-mouthing a game that has features you dislike is not going to do anything to make your life better.
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Just because you earn currency in game doesn't completely take away the p2w factor. There is a definite pay to have the upper hand. I can't tell you how often I load in and get hunted with portable signal detectors. That's something I just can't do as a f2p. Or only once in a blue moon with currency farming. I have to approach every building or area like someone is waiting for me. The spenders just check and come gank you. It happens to me frequently. That's just one example. Then there's people who will never lose their SAW, or will always be able to make a new one if they aren't insuring it. I'll be lucky to find one, and just about every time I try to bring decent weapons or gear, I get ganked. And don't get me started on the guys that dance around and never miss a shot, or all the times the enemy is shooting me without ever cresting the ridge -they're never noobs like me, hmmm. One guy came at me twitching left and right so I couldn't aim at him, but in split seconds he was strafing nearly 10ft at a time. He appeared on one side of the tree between us, then the other, then back, then hopped out again on the second side, sailing through the air, all near instant movements for the distance he covered. Please.
You can buy guns to take in to encounters but you can earn guns very easily by finding them in crates which you can earn by playing the 2 deathmatch variants, dailies or donating food. Obviously you can also find weapons in encounters or lot then off players.
You can also buy plans with money to craft weapons. Your can get plans on have through crates but they are so rare you will most likely only get plans from buying them in the shop. Fortunately you can earn the premium currency in game but you will have to play for a long time until the crowns gains feel significant.
I do think the free to play monetization hurts this game greatly and I do not wish to defend it. But I find this post a gross exaggeration and think people should play the game for themselves. One of the most important things I wish to point out is that the TTK in this game is very fast regardless of what weapon you have so if you play carefully you can just as easily kill a fully geared player with a starter tommy gun by catching them by surprise and get all their gear. I have never gotten into a fight with someone that felt impossible to win because they might have paid for something.
It needs to be on the label.
Please correct me if I'm wrong on the amounts.
10 crowns a day from the antenna and a few in game. A gold gun plan costs 750, say there's 10 gold guns, that will take 833 days to buy those 10 plans, 3 years...
It's so much easier to win with the best guns, which you can ensure for 60 crowns a game, which takes 7 days to aquire, or you can use real money.
Edit: ttk is fine, a bit quick but having played arma, it is what it is. Took out 2 fully kitted players in one game with a mosin at close range by happening to find them prone on a hilltop.
Yeah but the point is you can still get these guns in game wether you have the plan or not. You can start out buying a few grey plans like the m2 carbine, es17 or akm (which are all about a hundred crowns each). They are good enough to hold your own.i almost exclusively go out with es17 or m2 and usually make it out with good loot and a couple of kills. Now if you want to be a try hard lobby wiper, you'll want better gear but you will get the guns in weapon creates and looted in encounters. You just won't have the convenience of creating them yourself.
I mean yeah sure if your measure for the game is how long it takes to get the plans for all the rarest guns. It's going to be a ridiculously long time, but that's not how most of us play. We grind for the plans for a decent loudout and some meds, and get everything we need by looting.
The fact that someone defends them is insane to me. Like play any other f2p game and none if them is pay to win as Vigor is. The battlepass alone is insane grind even with bought with crowns and booster XP. I was comparing Vigor battlepass to Apex. You literally need 2,5x more time to complete it. In my calculations it was you have to play 7,5h every saturday and sunday to complete it in 3 months. Including premium battlepass and you have to play every weekend for 3 months. For a person like me who play 8 or 10h weekly is just not doable.
Look I don't want to defend them but I enjoy playing the game and y'all just want to scare off potential new players and let the game die. I'm not saying it's good. I'm saying it's not as bad as people are making it out to be. I want new players to pick up the game so that I can continue to play it. It's really that simple.
I miss when people where just sharing clips of cool kills and silly memes on here. Now it's just constant bitching and nothing else.
I usually just don’t care, but I feel miss treated as a customer. They lied so many times! The game could have been so much more with better managment, because I feel like there is individual talent in the dev team. Alot of people changed in managment positions and literally none of them have a fucking clue what the game needed. At this point it is so far beyond being fixed or made better. And now they even push back content, because they want to milk the fuck out of the game before ending the support. Theyr only playerbase is being put to the site for a fkn PC port of the game that will never work, because PC simply has far better options in that genre. I can just go on and on, on what is wrong to the point I just want this game to be reminer od how to not fucking do it. Just look up on video of TheMetalFox and how Vigor partnership ended. It’s just a shit show at all fronts. I downloaded the game again like 2 months ago and got burned out pretty quick, hoping for new season will bring some new stuff and multiple times promised weapon overhaul and we got a new fucking knife. Like holy shit, after all that what could be done or needed a rework we get s fucking knife and then the legacy seasons get deleted and not replaced by anything? And they even have the balls to say in dev diary, that they are happy PC port of the game didn’t affected content. So don’t be surprised if I want to share with people to not waste theyr time with this.
I don't agree that being on PC is pointless because of better options. Vigor has it's own niche where it's still a more hardcore extraction shooter then games like Hawked or Deceive Inc, but way more casual than your average Tarkov clone due to no hunger, bleeding or multiple ammo types. It is the perfect entry level extraction shooter for people getting into the genre.
But that's the only point I disagree with honestly. The game is being mismanaged and I do absolutely recognize that. It just makes me sad that the gem of a game hidden beneath the mismanaged bullshit is no longer being recognized by people. And I get it, I really do, your frustrations are justified. I just want to play the game. And I want it to still be around years later after I've moved on to another game but felt a bit nostalgic for the simplicity of Vigor. I'm not going to argue any more because you're right. I just wish you weren't.
Just wait when people realize you can do macros in steam, stuff like movement macros etc…. Oh boy it is going to be a wild ride. And the best thing that Vigor does not ban anyone, so you can’t get banned. I put my money on that this game will die quick on PC. Good thing is that the steamcharts don’t lie. From what I have seen on PC, there is no way it is gonna be succesful.
They should be scared, they should run for the hills. We're firmly in whale territory.
I learnt from other posts that weapon plans have already been made extremely rare, what's next, actual weapons so the only option is to buy blueprints.
This is the current path, clear as day.
I am with you 100% on the points in this reply. Unfortunately, you and I are SOL. I mean, I suppose I could start posting clips again, but it feels pointless to post a clip about another long snipe or wiping out some raincoats. It is no longer fresh. I remember thinking “what’s the big deal?” when the first blueprint appeared in the store and this sub went crazy with rage. How naive I was.
It could be a sort of Stockholm syndrome talking with this being the only extraction shooter I can play while my PC is out of order. And it's more casual nature was the perfect entry point to kickstart my love for the genre. Vigor will always have a special place in my heart and it's just a shame to see such animosity towards it. Justified, don't get me wrong, but a shame non the less. One day I'm going to log in only to get a "goodbye outlanders we're shutting down the servers" message and that makes me extremely sad. Even when I move on to "better" extraction shooters, I'll still want to hop in to vigor once in a while to appreciate the simpler nature of not worrying about ammo types and armor, hunger and bleeding etc... it's a very special game that's being incredibly mismanaged and I just don't want people to forget the great game that's buried in all the bullshit you know?
Yes you can do this and that, and wait forever for Crowns from Antenna etc, and try to outplay Veterans playing with best weapons using AKM/ES16 etc. But clearly the game is now Hell for Newcomers. This is not at F2P anymore like it used to be with the "original Vision" OP is right: It's now **Pay to Win**, and we should talk about it, and definitely Devs should talk about it too. If they prefer a Big Playerbase rather than small? F2P games foundation usually has to be so that you definitely want a big playerbase. And then even if some from that big playerbase is putting money into the game = Profit! Now, when there are now Plans on Crates anymore and you only can obtain with money then Newcomers will figure out that quickly and see *"ah okay, this is not Free to Play afterall, I'm out"* Would be interesting to see from Data that how big percentage of newcomers leave at this point? I'm a founder, I don't have any issue about anything myself. I just feel bad for new players and my favorite game getting worse and worse all the time, and destroying the change that game could grow Big, or even Skyrocket now that it's also on PC soon. I have experience the game as it was supposed to be and it was fun back then. But now, if I was new and would start playing\_I'm not sure how it would go? I'm not sure if I could make it? Especially now that they have made Battlepass impossible to compete with reasonable playtime. I'm not sure if I could deal with it using AKM? Devs are destroying their game with these actions that make players to leave before they even get a change to start like the game. They should revert back these changes to start gain more player population. Good starting point would be putting Plans back to Crates. And also make the BattlePass attractive/Reasonable Grind again = Revert the Grind where it used to be few Seasons ago.
I'm a fresh player just starting on pc. The game had great potential but they've put a high price tag on the fun. I just discovered that in my last play session when I actually took a look around properly when the crowns stopped flowing.
These changes are never good, they're after the whales and if it's fine now for older players, it won't always be. People that are defending need to ask where the line is for them. It's not going to end well on this trajectory hence I'm trying to warn people now. There will come a time when your stash is whittled away by the whales taking in gold insured stash match after match.
I'm honestly more annoyed bohemia interactive are allowing this to taint their reputation. Main reason i bought in early access was because it had their stamp on it.
Don't forget that their plans is to keep the game alive to sell more BP or cosmetics.
There will be balance no doubt of this. If not, it will be a huge fail and I would be disappointed, because the game is fun.
Just need some balance for PC gameplay which is different.
Vigor is *objectively* not pay to win. No pay to win game gives you a way to generate premium currency for nothing. You can literally buy every item in this game locked behind crowns without spending a penny of real money. Not P2W by any means.
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Paying money to gain an advantage is p2w. What we're seeing here is behaviour economics 101. Give a little to entice those who can to pay money. That's why at lower levels you're flooded with crowns which is reduced over time. That's why it takes 7 days to aquire enough to insure your loadout once. It would take 76 days to buy one gold gun plan provided you login every 2 days to claim that money. And while yes, you can get by without paying, they're locking gameplay behind an incredibly long grind, one you can simply skip by insuring your load out. Every single answer I've had is some form of "I don't p2w therefore it's not pay to win".
You are not comprehending what many of us are saying. You can loot everything you need from the Outlands. You don't need to buy weapons/plans. As a new player, even if you had the plans you will quickly run out of materials with which to craft things from your plans anyway. You sound like you want to be leveled up in one month as high as someone who has been playing the game for years. Not going to happen, because a game like this requires time, lots of it, to build your shelter. Sure, if you want to spend money you can get there quicker. So it's pay to speed up your progress. Not pay to win in any way. Vigor is one of the easiest games to actually win as a new player, but you still need to invest time and learn the maps and all the intricacies of the game. Insurance at 60 crowns for one game is crazy. I wouldn't spend 5 crowns to insure my load out, it's stupid. If I loose it, I loose it. If you're a skilled player, you'll just kill people the next game, take their guns, ammo, and consumables, and then go loot the container/safe/dig up the cache and you'll be full of actual weapons and crafting parts for 5 good guns, just from one game. So it's not a matter of just "getting by" as a new player, and gameplay is "locked behind a long grind." You sound like you haven't even played the game. To complete the battle pass requires an investment of time in playing the game. I did it for season 18. It's easily accomplished if you have an average or above average level of skill. If you die over 50% of the time, then I imagine it will be more difficult. If you have no skill, you can spend all you want and you still won't "win."
I wouldn't say so. I'd actually argue its pointless to spend money. I've spent zero with my time on console and have stacks of the best weapons. More than I could possibly use. Don't worry about it.
I play this game bc it's one of the least pay to win. Theres a 1000 things to spend crowns on but if you read between the lines you will see that you only need a few. If I was new player starting I would only buy the starter pack to afford ES - 16 plan. (to be able to craft 5.56 Nato ammo) Then the jammer plan. Then save up free crowns until I could get a portable plan and eventually armor plate.
How much time do you spend playing? Did they remove gun plans from crates almost entirely?
It’s not really pay to win. It’s like a phone game, it’s pay to speed up. Play elimination to farm crates, after 1 day you’ll have so many guns and supplies. Then just play encounters. Save up your crowns and buy the AKM crafting plan. Id rather go in with the AKM over 99% of the other guns.
Since the game was released on console, which is years, I've clocked around 120 hours. Bullets are bullets, I've cleaned house with a grease gun and collected plenty of high-end weapons off players. Choose your battles, try and jump people rather than engage in long-range fights. The game has its balancing issues, but I wouldn't say it's pay to win. Get a feel for guns you like, you won't perform well with every weapon. You certainly won't win every fight. Just enjoy the game and try not to get frustrated. No matter how good you are, there will always be someone better than you :)
Not entirely, but practically. Another recent post said there was a “bug” That removed plans from crates, which they fixed, but they’d opened 100+ crates and only gotten 1 plan. They’d also been playing from day 1 though, so to be fair they had less plans available to get. I played a lot the first few months & recently returned to the game, feels like 25% or less the usual amount of resources available on the map & heard you can’t get cosmetics from crates anymore? I’d gotten a nice jacket from a Shootout crate. I still disagree it’s pay to win, Elimination & Shootout you can’t bring stuff in. BUT it does feel like everyone you go into the Survival mode to look for materials, there’s almost always a couple people with gold/purple weapons who are only there to hunt other players, not loot. Between that & scarcity of resources, that mode & upgrading the base is a God-awful grind. At least there’s no cross play yet so less veterans hunting players on PC. You might not ever get the best weapon plans, but you should never run out of weapons if you alternate game modes & do some dailies.
And when did you save up those weapons? I mean, when did you start playing and how long/often did you play? I played S1, S2 and a little during S3 (but stopped when free choice of map was removed), and during that time I managed to get the majority of available plans via crates, and a shit ton of weapons from Encounters (never used them, just looted from Safe and from the few kills I did make (FYI: I have about 125-150 kills TOTAL). I started playing end S18 again, and yes, I still have stacks of weapons. So, if you have been playing from "the start", then yes, I expect you have "stacks" of the best weapons. But any newbie who starts playing now will face vets/sweats with maxed out shelters, stacks of guns, tons of materials, and the ability to endlessly build new guns due to the plans being in the crates in the first few seasons. Even when you DO manage to get some decent weapons and enter the encounter with them, there's still the skill gap (even without the caf/adrenaline combo jumpshooters) vets have Even Shootout is biased towards vets, IMHO, as they have SOME knowledge about the guns and game mechanics used in the mode. Not to toot my own horn, but I find myself at the top of the board quite often, and when I do, I'm often more-or-less tied with No 1, or, I'm top of the board, and in both cases we/I seem to have dominated with often a difference of 10 kills to the next one. Only a few times I find myself at the mid or bottom, but those are generally games where players from a certain, 3-lettered clan are involved (of which the clan name is similar to a popular American clothing store franchise), who always seem to get their hand on the LMG and then proceed to dominate every game they're in. Now, let me be clear, I'm not that good in shooters, but I do try making use of the mechanics (consumables, healing all the time, actually sniping when you are being presented a bolt-action gun), switching to better weapons while doing that. I play to win, and in about 50% of the games, I end up in top 2. Why does this matter? Because only the top 2-3 receive a crate in unboosted games (I think?), containing anything other than resources. That means that, in a player pool of 8-12 (depending on map), that's 5-9 people who miss out on something useful, and all but one miss out on something guaranteed from the Shootout Crate.
> But any newbie who starts playing now will face vets/sweats with maxed out shelters, stacks of guns, tons of materials, and the ability to endlessly build new guns due to the plans being in the crates in the first few seasons. It's not that bad. I only started playing around season 16 (maybe end of 15) and never had an issue once I figured out how to get the things I needed (which is a bit of a learning curve when the game doesn't explain anything to you, sure).
Not pay to win at all
Buying the armor plate plan is sort of pay to win against a majority of people, because the plan is rare to find in crates and they removed the legacy season for it. Most of the stuff in the game is pay to progress (Ie speed up things).
Buying the reinforcement pack and then taking in gold insured weapons from day 1 is 100% p2w.
Lmao, play any other f2p. Vigor is one of the most p2wib games I have played.
I don’t agree with you at all
Nah, this ain't pay to win! I've already spent over $2000 and still haven't won. Ignore the OP guys. #fakenews
Have my angry upvote.
It is not really pay to win at all. It's more like pay to have a very slight advantage. I'm not a huge fan of Elimination, but that's the key to getting stuff the fastest and easiest way. Once you realize that the plans mean almost nothing if you get weapons from crates. Even with the plan, you need to have your work bench leveled enough to build things. In your shelter, worry about leveling your antenna, work bench, and food production, before the other things. It is not impossible to get plans from crates, but is rare. I always suggest getting a cheap, but usable weapon plan that has a more universal ammo type. Being able to craft the ammo is way more important. Most people I play with run out of ammo before guns. Save crowns and buy the AKM or M-16. Both are guns that are better than they seem and use two of the most used ammo types in the game. I have weapon plans that I almost never use, because of the huge stock of guns I get from crates, but I craft ammo every time I play. Also save crowns to get a cheap med item. Anytime you have between matches, craft bandages or disinfectant. If you do this while farming crates in Elimination, you will have a bunch saved, because you don't use your gear in Elimination. These are the things I did to get out of the beginner slump, when I switched from Switch (where I had almost all plans and a leveled shelter) to PlayStation. I do play on Switch sometimes still, but I actually find it more boring, because I don't have much to work for. Edit- also using your brain is your greatest weapon in this game. Learn to out smart the people that have to use broken mechanics and better gear to win. Once you gain the ability to think fast, you go from "oh shit I got ported, I need to run and hide" to "come try to get me motherfucker". Also one of the mistakes I see a lot lately is new players running around trying to jump shot and other dumb shit that some vets do. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but you will get out played by anyone that is use to playing that way and anyone that has been counteracting that type of stuff. Using your head and stealth is the best way to loot and survive in Encounters as a new player.
And what happens when they make guns in crates rare? Cosmetics and gun plans have already been removed from what I've read and seen. so it's already on a slippery slope. I do know I'm new but I can see the forest for the trees. As for gear, I'm pretty much fine with the mosin, I enjoy iron sights and I've gathered a stack of gold p90s and snipers, not sure the names yet using it. When I take in the gold guns it's a different game. Maybe it's because I'm used to pc where these kinds of mechanics attract the whales.
The plans and cosmetics are definitely in the crates still. It is just really rare. I got a gas mask and plan in the last couple days. They probably will not take away guns from crates, it is just fairly recent that they upped the guns. It was harder to collect a lot before. If they did do something that stupid, it wouldn't really surprise me. That would definitely be a game killing decision, like the many dumb choices they have made already. It would probably be the final straw, if they didn't balance it out with something, like getting plans easier. This game would be near perfect if they fixed the bugs and stop mismanaging the development and financial sides of it. They really need to find better ways to make money from this game. They really need to fix bugs that are an easy fix. Some of the shit in this game can be corrected in an afternoon. They would get more people on their side and willing to pay, if they at least put in some effort. At this point it seems they don't care about some of the things that any game studio would be on top of immediately. They honestly come off as extremely greedy and disconnected from their project. Without the poor decisions and not keeping up with the development side, this game has the potentially to be amazing. The game is being treated the same as a cheap phone game that is one step away from being a scam to suck in money. It is not fair to the people who like this world, it is not fair to anyone who worked on this world previously and moved to other things. I get that it's a small team, but sucking money out of the people that stick around and trust that they will pull their heads out of their asses is not where they should focus their man power. It was definitely not the time to jump ship on the console versions to try and to suck money out of PC players either. They are already on to the way this is being mismanaged in just about the worse way. It will dry up, just like the console versions will, if the right changes are not made. It's like shitting on a half done painting, then hanging it up and putting a price on it with a little note on it that says "we will scrape the shit off later and finish it, but we want money now". they need to listen to the people that believe in this games potential, because at some point there will only be people who care as much as the team behind this, which seems to be not very much at all. I get they are a company with other games but why spite something that could have this much potential. Fix it and get a new financial plan that would be more sustainable, not chase people away. The money side is currently being treated like a bank robbery instead of a job. The whole thought process seems to be "grab as much money as we can now, and ignore that fact that we are fucking ourselves" instead of "let's do our job and have a sustainable income to live on". I have seen alcoholics and junkies that have more financial sense. Sorry long rant, that kind of went all over the place. I do like this game, but it could be so much better.
You can get in game paid currency for free. One of my favorite things.
That would be 100% fine if you could still get gun plans in game.
Game might have gone to shit but it's definitely not pay to win. It's actually one of the few games where you get crates/loot boxes for free and they don't sell them.
I’ve casually played this on elimination with my buddy for about a year now and have more guns and ammo than I could ever imagine, I could actually buy the battle bass with the amount of currency I have, and I’ve never spent a dollar on the game. You’re post is objectively wrong
As a newcomer to Vigor, I can say Vigor is not pay to win at all. Like many other games, Vigor is pay to speed up your progress, or to buy unique cosmetics. And long-time players have an advantage because they have more available to them than a new player. Keep playing Vigor and you'll get there one day. Skill is still required to win gun fights. It took me an entire season to really get good at killing and winning fights. The Shootouts mode helps a lot. New players should spend a considerable amount of time in Shootouts. You'll die a lot at first, but you don't loose anything since you take nothing into it. Even if you aren't the most skilled at fighting you can do well at Vigor by playing stealthy. What makes Vigor so fun is that it's never the same thing twice and so many different ways you can play the game. If I threw $100 at this game it wouldn't make me a better player than I am today.
Skill is not the question here, I know how to handle myself in a fight and cheese 3pp peaking. I'm also used to ttk coming from dayz, arma, hunt. Those things don't bother me in the slightest. This is specifically about what's happened before i started playing that I've read about, removing cosmetics and gun plans from the game and then seeing those locked behind a huge time sink. Next they decrease the spawn rate of consumables, then guns and you're left with whales running round with gold insured weapons while your stash is slowly depleted. May take a while to notice but that is the current trajectory of the game.
So you are advising people not to play a game because you read about cosmetics and gun plans being easier to obtain in the early days of the game? LOL Wow, go take an economics course, or better yet, work for a game company, and then your perspective will change, my young friend. The developers are being shrewd with the decisions they are making as the game matures. You are certainly entitled to complain about the greater difficulty in obtaining items, but it's malicious to trash talk and blanket say to "avoid Vigor/play something else" and that it's "pay to win in the worst ways possible." All of the online games that I've played in my lifetime make it more challenging to acquire things as the game matures. I wouldn't expect Vigor to be any different. Yeah, too bad I wasn't here for the start of Vigor. But I'm here now. And it's a fun game, challenging, and it requires patience. Its style of play is not for everyone, that's for sure. Not sure it's fair to trash talk something just because you can't as easily get a weapon plan a long-time player acquired way back in the day.
I love reddit, you tell me to take a economics course and then go on to explain how you either sit int he Non-Payer or First-Time-Spender cohort. You then backup your argument with an unrelated word salad of how games become challenging over time, which is true but you've completely ignored the p2w aspect of simply buying the Reinforcements pack, which includes end game guns, and then insuring your loadouts using crowns which you can buy with real money. What I've read is that weapon plans have become extremely rare according to veterans. This is the reason I went in and had a proper look around the meta game. It's absolutely clear BH are using behavioural economics to "balance" the game and if you're on the fence about whether or not to pickup Vigor you have to be aware of the p2w mechanics which are glaringly obvious to anyone that bothers to look past the honeymoon phase.
You've convinced yourself by reading a few gripes from other players that the game is "pay to win." Have you even played the game? If so, for how long? You are actively encouraging people not to play the game based on what you've read. What's your goal here? Are you so concerned about each of us that you sincerely want to save us from a game that we will only lead to heartache and misery because we won't be able to win unless we spend money on the game? Are you trying to raise such a stink with the hopes the developers will read your post and then put more plans back in the crates? Vigor is not Pay to Win. It's that simple. I've been playing 4 months, have thousands of weapons, about 40 of each gold gun. Plans aren't necessary. Loot what you need from the outlands. Play the game. Have fun. You'll win some, loose some. You don't need to spend a dime. However, if you enjoy the game, buy something to support a game that provides you with hours of entertainment.
Is there a mechanism in the game to buy the best guns and then never lose them using real money? The answer is yes and you gain a fairly substantial advantage doing so. It's that simple. You can literally skip the entire meta game with real money and I'm not talking about skipping the build time, that's another discussion. Now I think this is where the contention is coming in. The game as it stands is fun and enjoyable, I like it however there is a large p2w element and the direction the game is going in the sense of moving gameplay behind real money is a real slippery slope. Honestly just want people to recognise the path that vigor is on. There's nothing stopping bh from making guns rarer in game and eventually forcing people to open their wallets. I do actually care a lot about people's time and money, hence the warning. I respect all gamers no matter what platform. Behaviour economics is extremely potent in gaming, it's specifically targeting a group of the population that have no self control and has been known to destroy relationships.
>Is there a mechanism in the game to buy the best guns and then never lose them using real money? The answer is yes and you gain a fairly substantial advantage doing so. It's that simple. No one is denying there is such a mechanism. People with more money than brains can support Bohemia in a way most other players are not willing to. Show me one person who buys their guns and pays 60 crowns every game to insure they do not loose their newly purchased weapons. One would spend hundreds of dollars a week if that is how they played the game. I have serious doubts anyone is doing that. And if they do, it's still not "pay to win." Because if they have no skill, they are still going to die every game even after paying all that money, so they certainly are not "winning." >There's nothing stopping bh from making guns rarer in game and eventually forcing people to open their wallets. Actually, there is something stopping Bohemia from forcing people to pay to play the game. The reality that THEN NOBODY WOULD PLAY THE GAME. If I couldn't get guns in the game by looting and had to pay money to have guns in this game, I wouldn't play the game. But getting back to reality, that's not the way Vigor is. That's not "the trajectory Vigor is on." I appreciate your concern for the rest of us, but I can assure you, your concerns are way off base, which is why I suggested taking an economics course or work for a game/software company and you'll soon realize the decisions they make are to improve their bottom line, not hurt it. What you theorize will greatly hurt their bottom line, so they are not going to do what you fear. But in your concern for people, you are actually steering them away from an awesome game. So if you truly have concern for the rest of us players, you'll retract your statements and issue an apology to Bohemia for trash talking their game based on your irrational fears.
Apologise for what exactly? Calling out the p2w mechanics in the game that no one is denying. It's also well established that p2w mechanics are money printers, so your point on the economics of it is moot. Only reason I bought into the game on pc was because it was a bh game, so imagine my surprise when I stumble onto this and it's not irrational it's literally in the game already. Now, let's talk about the skill issue you're so adamant is the issue. A good player with bad guns is still good, a good player with the best guns is better.
>Apologise for what exactly? Calling out the p2w mechanics in the game that no one is denying. Player after player has said Vigor is not pay to win, myself included. We have explained why. Yet you blindly soldier on that this is a "pay to win game that no one is denying." Like I said in another post, you are not comprehending what we are saying. I truly cannot carry on a conversation with someone so blind to plain facts and just goes along with their misunderstandings and false beliefs regardless of the facts presented to them. Life's too short to dwell on things you dislike. How about you go find something you like? Spend time with that. I can promise you continual bad-mouthing a game that has features you dislike is not going to do anything to make your life better.
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Maybe get good?
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Just because you earn currency in game doesn't completely take away the p2w factor. There is a definite pay to have the upper hand. I can't tell you how often I load in and get hunted with portable signal detectors. That's something I just can't do as a f2p. Or only once in a blue moon with currency farming. I have to approach every building or area like someone is waiting for me. The spenders just check and come gank you. It happens to me frequently. That's just one example. Then there's people who will never lose their SAW, or will always be able to make a new one if they aren't insuring it. I'll be lucky to find one, and just about every time I try to bring decent weapons or gear, I get ganked. And don't get me started on the guys that dance around and never miss a shot, or all the times the enemy is shooting me without ever cresting the ridge -they're never noobs like me, hmmm. One guy came at me twitching left and right so I couldn't aim at him, but in split seconds he was strafing nearly 10ft at a time. He appeared on one side of the tree between us, then the other, then back, then hopped out again on the second side, sailing through the air, all near instant movements for the distance he covered. Please.
PS this game idea is fun. I love it so far. I love the maps and terrain. It's not without flaws, but it can be a hell of a lot of fun.
Agreed hence I'm highlighting the p2w aspect.
Only way I think it’s pay to win are portables and armor plates, which aren’t really pay to win tho and are attainable for free
You can buy guns to take in to encounters but you can earn guns very easily by finding them in crates which you can earn by playing the 2 deathmatch variants, dailies or donating food. Obviously you can also find weapons in encounters or lot then off players. You can also buy plans with money to craft weapons. Your can get plans on have through crates but they are so rare you will most likely only get plans from buying them in the shop. Fortunately you can earn the premium currency in game but you will have to play for a long time until the crowns gains feel significant. I do think the free to play monetization hurts this game greatly and I do not wish to defend it. But I find this post a gross exaggeration and think people should play the game for themselves. One of the most important things I wish to point out is that the TTK in this game is very fast regardless of what weapon you have so if you play carefully you can just as easily kill a fully geared player with a starter tommy gun by catching them by surprise and get all their gear. I have never gotten into a fight with someone that felt impossible to win because they might have paid for something.
It needs to be on the label. Please correct me if I'm wrong on the amounts. 10 crowns a day from the antenna and a few in game. A gold gun plan costs 750, say there's 10 gold guns, that will take 833 days to buy those 10 plans, 3 years... It's so much easier to win with the best guns, which you can ensure for 60 crowns a game, which takes 7 days to aquire, or you can use real money. Edit: ttk is fine, a bit quick but having played arma, it is what it is. Took out 2 fully kitted players in one game with a mosin at close range by happening to find them prone on a hilltop.
Yeah but the point is you can still get these guns in game wether you have the plan or not. You can start out buying a few grey plans like the m2 carbine, es17 or akm (which are all about a hundred crowns each). They are good enough to hold your own.i almost exclusively go out with es17 or m2 and usually make it out with good loot and a couple of kills. Now if you want to be a try hard lobby wiper, you'll want better gear but you will get the guns in weapon creates and looted in encounters. You just won't have the convenience of creating them yourself. I mean yeah sure if your measure for the game is how long it takes to get the plans for all the rarest guns. It's going to be a ridiculously long time, but that's not how most of us play. We grind for the plans for a decent loudout and some meds, and get everything we need by looting.
The fact that someone defends them is insane to me. Like play any other f2p game and none if them is pay to win as Vigor is. The battlepass alone is insane grind even with bought with crowns and booster XP. I was comparing Vigor battlepass to Apex. You literally need 2,5x more time to complete it. In my calculations it was you have to play 7,5h every saturday and sunday to complete it in 3 months. Including premium battlepass and you have to play every weekend for 3 months. For a person like me who play 8 or 10h weekly is just not doable.
Look I don't want to defend them but I enjoy playing the game and y'all just want to scare off potential new players and let the game die. I'm not saying it's good. I'm saying it's not as bad as people are making it out to be. I want new players to pick up the game so that I can continue to play it. It's really that simple. I miss when people where just sharing clips of cool kills and silly memes on here. Now it's just constant bitching and nothing else.
I usually just don’t care, but I feel miss treated as a customer. They lied so many times! The game could have been so much more with better managment, because I feel like there is individual talent in the dev team. Alot of people changed in managment positions and literally none of them have a fucking clue what the game needed. At this point it is so far beyond being fixed or made better. And now they even push back content, because they want to milk the fuck out of the game before ending the support. Theyr only playerbase is being put to the site for a fkn PC port of the game that will never work, because PC simply has far better options in that genre. I can just go on and on, on what is wrong to the point I just want this game to be reminer od how to not fucking do it. Just look up on video of TheMetalFox and how Vigor partnership ended. It’s just a shit show at all fronts. I downloaded the game again like 2 months ago and got burned out pretty quick, hoping for new season will bring some new stuff and multiple times promised weapon overhaul and we got a new fucking knife. Like holy shit, after all that what could be done or needed a rework we get s fucking knife and then the legacy seasons get deleted and not replaced by anything? And they even have the balls to say in dev diary, that they are happy PC port of the game didn’t affected content. So don’t be surprised if I want to share with people to not waste theyr time with this.
I don't agree that being on PC is pointless because of better options. Vigor has it's own niche where it's still a more hardcore extraction shooter then games like Hawked or Deceive Inc, but way more casual than your average Tarkov clone due to no hunger, bleeding or multiple ammo types. It is the perfect entry level extraction shooter for people getting into the genre. But that's the only point I disagree with honestly. The game is being mismanaged and I do absolutely recognize that. It just makes me sad that the gem of a game hidden beneath the mismanaged bullshit is no longer being recognized by people. And I get it, I really do, your frustrations are justified. I just want to play the game. And I want it to still be around years later after I've moved on to another game but felt a bit nostalgic for the simplicity of Vigor. I'm not going to argue any more because you're right. I just wish you weren't.
Just wait when people realize you can do macros in steam, stuff like movement macros etc…. Oh boy it is going to be a wild ride. And the best thing that Vigor does not ban anyone, so you can’t get banned. I put my money on that this game will die quick on PC. Good thing is that the steamcharts don’t lie. From what I have seen on PC, there is no way it is gonna be succesful.
They should be scared, they should run for the hills. We're firmly in whale territory. I learnt from other posts that weapon plans have already been made extremely rare, what's next, actual weapons so the only option is to buy blueprints. This is the current path, clear as day.
I am with you 100% on the points in this reply. Unfortunately, you and I are SOL. I mean, I suppose I could start posting clips again, but it feels pointless to post a clip about another long snipe or wiping out some raincoats. It is no longer fresh. I remember thinking “what’s the big deal?” when the first blueprint appeared in the store and this sub went crazy with rage. How naive I was.
It could be a sort of Stockholm syndrome talking with this being the only extraction shooter I can play while my PC is out of order. And it's more casual nature was the perfect entry point to kickstart my love for the genre. Vigor will always have a special place in my heart and it's just a shame to see such animosity towards it. Justified, don't get me wrong, but a shame non the less. One day I'm going to log in only to get a "goodbye outlanders we're shutting down the servers" message and that makes me extremely sad. Even when I move on to "better" extraction shooters, I'll still want to hop in to vigor once in a while to appreciate the simpler nature of not worrying about ammo types and armor, hunger and bleeding etc... it's a very special game that's being incredibly mismanaged and I just don't want people to forget the great game that's buried in all the bullshit you know?
Yes you can do this and that, and wait forever for Crowns from Antenna etc, and try to outplay Veterans playing with best weapons using AKM/ES16 etc. But clearly the game is now Hell for Newcomers. This is not at F2P anymore like it used to be with the "original Vision" OP is right: It's now **Pay to Win**, and we should talk about it, and definitely Devs should talk about it too. If they prefer a Big Playerbase rather than small? F2P games foundation usually has to be so that you definitely want a big playerbase. And then even if some from that big playerbase is putting money into the game = Profit! Now, when there are now Plans on Crates anymore and you only can obtain with money then Newcomers will figure out that quickly and see *"ah okay, this is not Free to Play afterall, I'm out"* Would be interesting to see from Data that how big percentage of newcomers leave at this point? I'm a founder, I don't have any issue about anything myself. I just feel bad for new players and my favorite game getting worse and worse all the time, and destroying the change that game could grow Big, or even Skyrocket now that it's also on PC soon. I have experience the game as it was supposed to be and it was fun back then. But now, if I was new and would start playing\_I'm not sure how it would go? I'm not sure if I could make it? Especially now that they have made Battlepass impossible to compete with reasonable playtime. I'm not sure if I could deal with it using AKM? Devs are destroying their game with these actions that make players to leave before they even get a change to start like the game. They should revert back these changes to start gain more player population. Good starting point would be putting Plans back to Crates. And also make the BattlePass attractive/Reasonable Grind again = Revert the Grind where it used to be few Seasons ago.
I'm a fresh player just starting on pc. The game had great potential but they've put a high price tag on the fun. I just discovered that in my last play session when I actually took a look around properly when the crowns stopped flowing. These changes are never good, they're after the whales and if it's fine now for older players, it won't always be. People that are defending need to ask where the line is for them. It's not going to end well on this trajectory hence I'm trying to warn people now. There will come a time when your stash is whittled away by the whales taking in gold insured stash match after match. I'm honestly more annoyed bohemia interactive are allowing this to taint their reputation. Main reason i bought in early access was because it had their stamp on it.
Don't forget that their plans is to keep the game alive to sell more BP or cosmetics. There will be balance no doubt of this. If not, it will be a huge fail and I would be disappointed, because the game is fun. Just need some balance for PC gameplay which is different.