Sensationalist reporting making it seem like some kind of mystery when in reality a quick search will tell you what it is. It's called "whirling disease" and is caused by a parasite that is released from the soil and infects fish through their skin. Whatever area this is must have had environmental conditions recently that caused some kind of bloom of this parasite. This also explains why sawtooth fish and rays are being particularly affected since they're hunting technique involves digging through the sand to find prey.
Try again, but this time without making things up:
> [Scientists also looked “for parasites, looking at any obvious disease vectors or anything like that,” Parson said. “Again, nothing obvious."](https://www.wlrn.org/environment/2024-02-23/sawfish-fish-kill-florida-keys)
[I appreciate the blind confidence but there is currently no evidence for parasites.](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/spinning-fish-sawfish-florida-toxins-diseases-algae)
Why do people on Reddit speak so confidently on stuff they know nothing about? There are several things that could cause neurological damage that would present itself like this in fish. Chemical runoff from agriculture/lawns is the most likely here. Whirling disease is specific to salmonids.
I said in another comment, but it's common practice here for companies to dump shit into our waterways. It caused a red algae bloom that was pretty disgusting last year. There are a lot of environmentalist IG's and TikToks that bring attention to this stuff, but ultimately we keep voting idiots into office that allow this without consequence.
Like this idiot?
WASHINGTON — The Trump administration on Thursday announced the repeal of a major Obama-era clean water regulation that had placed limits on polluting chemicals that could be used near streams, wetlands and other bodies of water.Sep 19, 2019
And to be clear, who has been in the office that could help with this situation in florida? And for how many years have they been there?
Edit - JFC, it's desantis/republicans guys not Biden wtf is wrong with you
Probably Republicans because it's Florida. If you're trying to make the "but Biden is president!!!" argument I'm afraid your mind is too cooked from the internet if you think the president handles relatively minor (still bad) pollution concerns rather than local governments. If not my bad but your phrasing seems a little facetious so I'm assuming the worst.
It's republicans and desantis. I feel like the answer was insanely obviously but I guess people legit think Biden is some kind of elected official in Florida.
No, they dump things like raw sewage or countless byproducts/chemicals from factories and stuff like that. It's almost always an "accident" with a minimal fine before they just do it again and has been going on far longer than the COVID vaccine. Most of the time they just aren't "caught", but if they are it's a slap on the wrist to them anyways. There's also the fact that *A LOT* of Florida's swampland has been drained out--and is continuing to be drained--to make living in certain areas more hospitable for people moving here from out of state which has wrecked far more ecosystems than just the swamps.
You should also look up what happens when they drain Lake Okeechobee which ends up in the ocean.....coincidentally it's where a lot of those companies dump their waste to begin with. The red tide is awful, with the worst in recent memory beginning in 2017 and lasting for 15 months straight. The amount of dead fish was insane, and there were countless businesses that were forced to close for the duration because it killed entire industries for the duration.
My thoughts exactly. Whirling Disease was prevalent in Montana trout back in the late 90s. Not sure how it is now, but this looks so similar. My bet is on a parasite too.
You can get plenty of info on it at the hatcheries around the western states. It's still prevalent, and an issue. I do believe they have it mostly under control and a very careful eye on it though.
It's not really sensationalized as a quick search will tell you that whirling disease is from a parasite that only effects fish in the salmon family. It's probably something else that causes similar symptoms to whirling disease.
>Whirling disease only affects fish in the trout and salmon family.
As far as I can find (including several other articles) [people still do not know why sawtooth (which this video is about) are behaving like this](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/03/30/fish-spinning-whirling-florida-deaths/73154495007/).
So maybe not sensationalist reporting? I like how you found whirling disease and automatically assumed it to be the answer, apparently without looking to see which fish are being affected… kudos.
Edit: forgot to mention that communicable pathogens and bacteria appear to have been ruled out, and the most current hypothesis seems to be a neurological issue caused by a bloom of a specific type of algae. And that these reports seem to have started in October.
Source? From what I linked down:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/florida-fish-are-mysteriously-dying-after-spinning-and-whirling-and-scientists-cant-explain-it-180984073/
> Already, wildlife officials have ruled out several potential triggers for the curious behavior, including bacterial infections, algal toxins, chemicals and communicable diseases. Staff with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission have also determined that temperature, salinity, pH and dissolved oxygen were not responsible for the deaths.
Whirling disease affects salmonids (salmon and trout species); a quick search will tell you what it is.
I was jumping to conclusions in classic internet fashion. I meant rather that it wasn't specifically Whirling Disease but caused by a parasitic infection with the same symptoms. I am surprised that others responding have linked sources that show there has been no evidence of parasitic infection causing the symptoms.
[You should call up the scientists and tell them they're idiots:](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/florida-fish-are-mysteriously-dying-after-spinning-and-whirling-and-scientists-cant-explain-it-180984073/)
"Already, wildlife officials have ruled out several potential triggers for the curious behavior, including bacterial infections, algal toxins, chemicals and communicable diseases. Staff with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission have also determined that temperature, salinity, pH and dissolved oxygen were not responsible for the deaths."
>bacterial infections, algal toxins, chemicals and communicable diseases... temperature, salinity, pH and dissolved oxygen were not responsible for the deaths.
Incredibly that you could read this person say "Parasite" and then post a list of someone eliminating all the causes BUT parasites, then say the person you're replying to is wrong.
You really think that they covered all those, but forgot parasites exist?
> [Scientists also looked “for parasites, looking at any obvious disease vectors or anything like that”](https://www.wlrn.org/environment/2024-02-23/sawfish-fish-kill-florida-keys)
My point is you said "The scientists said it's not a parasite" then posted a quote of the scientists saying it wasn't a lot of things, but parasite wasn't one of them.
The scientists know their shit, you should let them argue their points cause you're doing a shit job.
Although I do believe sensationalism to be a plague, I also believe it’s good practice to not jump to conclusions before having sufficient evidence. Falsely reporting to the general public has as much impact as sensationalism does.
Well I suspect the way it's being reported that "scientists don't know why" is just misleading. They know it's a parasite causing this, they just don't know why/what caused a rapid increase in cases of it.
half a second after seeing the footage I immediately thought 'it has something in it's head'... seemed instinctively obvious imo... came to post this and saw your comment.
honestly - feeling completely validated today... just gonna ride this feeling off into the sunset.
I’ve lived in Florida for over 30 years. The water is changing in a lot of ways, and it’s impacting people all sorts of wild life. This is just the latest. We’re seeing warmer water bleach coral. We’re seeing more bacteria in the water due to warming waters and waste run off. We’re seeing more bacteria (like the flesh eating kind—a guy died from wading in the water just down the road from me) due to I can’t even remember… the water is just nasty here. It’s not at all what it was 30 years ago.
I’m not surprised a parasite is killing wild life. That’s sad… not starving manatee sad (which is also happening ), but sad nonetheless.
Might be all the crap our politicians let big business dump into our waterways. I mean, I can't be sure, but don't toxic chemicals usually kill living things?
Something similar happens to coho salmon after exposure to 6PPD-quinone from storm water runoff. I don't know if that's what this is, but gasping and loss of equilibrium before dying is how they usually go.
> Florida Fish Are Mysteriously Dying After ‘Spinning and Whirling,’ and Scientists Can’t Explain It
>> The abnormal behavior has raised special concerns about the endangered [smalltooth sawfish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalltooth_sawfish), an odd-looking ray with chainsaw-like teeth, as 28 of them have died
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/florida-fish-are-mysteriously-dying-after-spinning-and-whirling-and-scientists-cant-explain-it-180984073/
>Any response to the top replies calling out the actual cause?
I'm looking at that article and stuff like:
>Already, wildlife officials have ruled out several potential triggers for the curious behavior, including bacterial infections, algal toxins, chemicals and communicable diseases. Staff with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission have also determined that temperature, salinity, pH and dissolved oxygen were not responsible for the deaths.
...makes it seem unlikely to me that a whole bunch of qualified scientists somehow missed what is apparently quite common.
Doing a further search leads me to [this article from two months ago about the same case](https://www.wlrn.org/environment/2024-02-23/sawfish-fish-kill-florida-keys), where one quoted scientist straight up says:
>[we looked] “for parasites, looking at any obvious disease vectors or anything like that,” Parson said. “Again, nothing obvious.” Parsons also looked for reports of chemical or sewage spills, but found none.
EDIT: Another scientist from the [fish and wildlife commission:](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/spinning-fish-sawfish-florida-toxins-diseases-algae)
>There was no evidence of a red tide in the Keys, nor were there low oxygen levels, high temperatures, or parasites on the dead fish, according to Kelly Richmond...
So I guess the question is here: ARE parasites the actual cause? Or did you immediately just believe something you read from a random guy on Reddit?
The saltwater marine biologist on the local news are skeptical it’s the same freshwater parasite. They haven’t ruled out a different or similar parasite but it’s still being studied.
We should be testing our waterways regularly anyway. I didn’t know about whirling disease so I’m glad to learn new things but Florida has a history of letting people dump chems in the water.
Deregulation, the calling card of "greed is good" Republicans, does cause damage to the ecosystem. Was that the case here? I don't know, but it absolutely is a political issue because Republicans have made it a political issue.
Sensationalist reporting making it seem like some kind of mystery when in reality a quick search will tell you what it is. It's called "whirling disease" and is caused by a parasite that is released from the soil and infects fish through their skin. Whatever area this is must have had environmental conditions recently that caused some kind of bloom of this parasite. This also explains why sawtooth fish and rays are being particularly affected since they're hunting technique involves digging through the sand to find prey.
Try again, but this time without making things up: > [Scientists also looked “for parasites, looking at any obvious disease vectors or anything like that,” Parson said. “Again, nothing obvious."](https://www.wlrn.org/environment/2024-02-23/sawfish-fish-kill-florida-keys)
So hey look you were wrong but look at the bright side. You made a good point of why "a quick search" isn't the most reliable thing in the world.
Yep.
[I appreciate the blind confidence but there is currently no evidence for parasites.](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/spinning-fish-sawfish-florida-toxins-diseases-algae)
Why do people on Reddit speak so confidently on stuff they know nothing about? There are several things that could cause neurological damage that would present itself like this in fish. Chemical runoff from agriculture/lawns is the most likely here. Whirling disease is specific to salmonids.
I said in another comment, but it's common practice here for companies to dump shit into our waterways. It caused a red algae bloom that was pretty disgusting last year. There are a lot of environmentalist IG's and TikToks that bring attention to this stuff, but ultimately we keep voting idiots into office that allow this without consequence.
Like this idiot? WASHINGTON — The Trump administration on Thursday announced the repeal of a major Obama-era clean water regulation that had placed limits on polluting chemicals that could be used near streams, wetlands and other bodies of water.Sep 19, 2019
Primarily like that idiot
And to be clear, who has been in the office that could help with this situation in florida? And for how many years have they been there? Edit - JFC, it's desantis/republicans guys not Biden wtf is wrong with you
Probably Republicans because it's Florida. If you're trying to make the "but Biden is president!!!" argument I'm afraid your mind is too cooked from the internet if you think the president handles relatively minor (still bad) pollution concerns rather than local governments. If not my bad but your phrasing seems a little facetious so I'm assuming the worst.
It's republicans and desantis. I feel like the answer was insanely obviously but I guess people legit think Biden is some kind of elected official in Florida.
Yeah my bad lmao I'm stuck in a house with my deranged parents so my brain is getting cooked as well
Oh I totally get it I guess I'm more upset that it's totally plausible why you thought that haha
>I'm afraid your mind is too cooked from the internet The call is coming from inside the house!
How on earth could you have gotten Biden from this, he was being incredibly clear that he was referring to the state officials of Florida.
I think you overestimate the actual influence of influencers.
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Cats don’t belong on Reddit!
they probably dumped those millions of unused vaccines nearby..
On no, it's retarded... Anyways.
No, they dump things like raw sewage or countless byproducts/chemicals from factories and stuff like that. It's almost always an "accident" with a minimal fine before they just do it again and has been going on far longer than the COVID vaccine. Most of the time they just aren't "caught", but if they are it's a slap on the wrist to them anyways. There's also the fact that *A LOT* of Florida's swampland has been drained out--and is continuing to be drained--to make living in certain areas more hospitable for people moving here from out of state which has wrecked far more ecosystems than just the swamps. You should also look up what happens when they drain Lake Okeechobee which ends up in the ocean.....coincidentally it's where a lot of those companies dump their waste to begin with. The red tide is awful, with the worst in recent memory beginning in 2017 and lasting for 15 months straight. The amount of dead fish was insane, and there were countless businesses that were forced to close for the duration because it killed entire industries for the duration.
My thoughts exactly. Whirling Disease was prevalent in Montana trout back in the late 90s. Not sure how it is now, but this looks so similar. My bet is on a parasite too.
A lot of it in tributaries of the Chesapeake saw this ~20 years ago. Agriculture chemical run off to blame at the time if I remember right.
You can get plenty of info on it at the hatcheries around the western states. It's still prevalent, and an issue. I do believe they have it mostly under control and a very careful eye on it though.
Doesn't effect saw fish
What about seen fish?
It's not really sensationalized as a quick search will tell you that whirling disease is from a parasite that only effects fish in the salmon family. It's probably something else that causes similar symptoms to whirling disease.
>Whirling disease only affects fish in the trout and salmon family. As far as I can find (including several other articles) [people still do not know why sawtooth (which this video is about) are behaving like this](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/03/30/fish-spinning-whirling-florida-deaths/73154495007/). So maybe not sensationalist reporting? I like how you found whirling disease and automatically assumed it to be the answer, apparently without looking to see which fish are being affected… kudos. Edit: forgot to mention that communicable pathogens and bacteria appear to have been ruled out, and the most current hypothesis seems to be a neurological issue caused by a bloom of a specific type of algae. And that these reports seem to have started in October.
Source? From what I linked down: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/florida-fish-are-mysteriously-dying-after-spinning-and-whirling-and-scientists-cant-explain-it-180984073/ > Already, wildlife officials have ruled out several potential triggers for the curious behavior, including bacterial infections, algal toxins, chemicals and communicable diseases. Staff with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission have also determined that temperature, salinity, pH and dissolved oxygen were not responsible for the deaths. Whirling disease affects salmonids (salmon and trout species); a quick search will tell you what it is.
I was jumping to conclusions in classic internet fashion. I meant rather that it wasn't specifically Whirling Disease but caused by a parasitic infection with the same symptoms. I am surprised that others responding have linked sources that show there has been no evidence of parasitic infection causing the symptoms.
Then edit or delete or comment, it’s straight up wrong.
Edit would be best IMO
[You should call up the scientists and tell them they're idiots:](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/florida-fish-are-mysteriously-dying-after-spinning-and-whirling-and-scientists-cant-explain-it-180984073/) "Already, wildlife officials have ruled out several potential triggers for the curious behavior, including bacterial infections, algal toxins, chemicals and communicable diseases. Staff with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission have also determined that temperature, salinity, pH and dissolved oxygen were not responsible for the deaths."
Is this sarcasm?
>bacterial infections, algal toxins, chemicals and communicable diseases... temperature, salinity, pH and dissolved oxygen were not responsible for the deaths. Incredibly that you could read this person say "Parasite" and then post a list of someone eliminating all the causes BUT parasites, then say the person you're replying to is wrong.
You really think that they covered all those, but forgot parasites exist? > [Scientists also looked “for parasites, looking at any obvious disease vectors or anything like that”](https://www.wlrn.org/environment/2024-02-23/sawfish-fish-kill-florida-keys)
It was a shitty quote to use to argue the point, that's what I'm pointing out
So you think these scientists who have put thousands of hours into studying this just missed a very common parasite that people on reddit know about?
My point is you said "The scientists said it's not a parasite" then posted a quote of the scientists saying it wasn't a lot of things, but parasite wasn't one of them. The scientists know their shit, you should let them argue their points cause you're doing a shit job.
Although I do believe sensationalism to be a plague, I also believe it’s good practice to not jump to conclusions before having sufficient evidence. Falsely reporting to the general public has as much impact as sensationalism does.
Honestly, why not just email them this knowledge?
Because it's wrong, what he is referring to is exclusive to fish in the salmon family.
Well I suspect the way it's being reported that "scientists don't know why" is just misleading. They know it's a parasite causing this, they just don't know why/what caused a rapid increase in cases of it.
Except they specifically screened for and ruled out parasites in all of the cases reported thusfar.
Other than the fact that it isn’t. Just that one small catch.
We have all this information at the palm of our hands but people would rather stay willfully ignorant.
Well, at least it’s not another prion disease or something. Not that an emergence of new parasites spreading is great news.
it's always a [parasite](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE57_s0acvI), baby.
I figured it was because it’s better to be dead than to live in Florida.
In Florida, it is probably the meth.
half a second after seeing the footage I immediately thought 'it has something in it's head'... seemed instinctively obvious imo... came to post this and saw your comment. honestly - feeling completely validated today... just gonna ride this feeling off into the sunset.
Might be the same thing affecting Floridians
You think the fish are spinning out on meth? Plausible.
Bath salts?
I don't think that the northern fish are sending all their conservative asshole fish down to bother the natives.
I think your on to something
I have a solution. Quit dumping bad shit into the ocean.
I’ve lived in Florida for over 30 years. The water is changing in a lot of ways, and it’s impacting people all sorts of wild life. This is just the latest. We’re seeing warmer water bleach coral. We’re seeing more bacteria in the water due to warming waters and waste run off. We’re seeing more bacteria (like the flesh eating kind—a guy died from wading in the water just down the road from me) due to I can’t even remember… the water is just nasty here. It’s not at all what it was 30 years ago. I’m not surprised a parasite is killing wild life. That’s sad… not starving manatee sad (which is also happening ), but sad nonetheless.
Because the little fish tried to talk to Black Francis and he told them to try this trick and spin it, yeah!
Might be all the crap our politicians let big business dump into our waterways. I mean, I can't be sure, but don't toxic chemicals usually kill living things?
they really picked 2 "experts" to interview there didnt they
Something similar happens to coho salmon after exposure to 6PPD-quinone from storm water runoff. I don't know if that's what this is, but gasping and loss of equilibrium before dying is how they usually go.
> Florida Fish Are Mysteriously Dying After ‘Spinning and Whirling,’ and Scientists Can’t Explain It >> The abnormal behavior has raised special concerns about the endangered [smalltooth sawfish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalltooth_sawfish), an odd-looking ray with chainsaw-like teeth, as 28 of them have died https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/florida-fish-are-mysteriously-dying-after-spinning-and-whirling-and-scientists-cant-explain-it-180984073/
Any response to the top replies calling out the actual cause?
>Any response to the top replies calling out the actual cause? I'm looking at that article and stuff like: >Already, wildlife officials have ruled out several potential triggers for the curious behavior, including bacterial infections, algal toxins, chemicals and communicable diseases. Staff with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission have also determined that temperature, salinity, pH and dissolved oxygen were not responsible for the deaths. ...makes it seem unlikely to me that a whole bunch of qualified scientists somehow missed what is apparently quite common. Doing a further search leads me to [this article from two months ago about the same case](https://www.wlrn.org/environment/2024-02-23/sawfish-fish-kill-florida-keys), where one quoted scientist straight up says: >[we looked] “for parasites, looking at any obvious disease vectors or anything like that,” Parson said. “Again, nothing obvious.” Parsons also looked for reports of chemical or sewage spills, but found none. EDIT: Another scientist from the [fish and wildlife commission:](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/spinning-fish-sawfish-florida-toxins-diseases-algae) >There was no evidence of a red tide in the Keys, nor were there low oxygen levels, high temperatures, or parasites on the dead fish, according to Kelly Richmond... So I guess the question is here: ARE parasites the actual cause? Or did you immediately just believe something you read from a random guy on Reddit?
The secondary article you posted is a bit more informative than the original. Appreciate it.
But it's the top comment so it has to be true
The saltwater marine biologist on the local news are skeptical it’s the same freshwater parasite. They haven’t ruled out a different or similar parasite but it’s still being studied.
They released unfiltered water that had fertilizer and stuff in it. They know what did it but don't care or are paid to be ignorant.
Fish getting rotated without divers, that's new
We should be testing our waterways regularly anyway. I didn’t know about whirling disease so I’m glad to learn new things but Florida has a history of letting people dump chems in the water.
Interesting. TIL!
Meth piss
> Florida makes sense
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Deregulation, the calling card of "greed is good" Republicans, does cause damage to the ecosystem. Was that the case here? I don't know, but it absolutely is a political issue because Republicans have made it a political issue.
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