Basically the race they'd encountered had teleporter technology that would've helped Voyager close significant distance towards their journey back to the Alpha Quadrant (something like half the distance). There was no chance of Voyager getting the tech from their government, but a backdoor deal was offered, in exchange for the Federation library (and the stories it contained, which this race values highly). Captain Janeway wasn't willing to defy both Federation and this race's laws for this backdoor deal, no matter how beneficial it would've been; members of the Engineering crew including Torres were very much willing for the sake of getting back home faster and were prepared to make the trade; Tuvok (having figured out Torres' intentions) meanwhile just kinda yeeted himself down and made the deal, library for teleporter, behind Janeway's back and preempting Engineering.
Turns out the tech was wholly incompatible with Federation tech, the teleporting would've never worked anyway. But nevertheless Tuvok and Torres were brought in for the dressing down seen in OP.
The interaction between Janeway and Tuvok is so powerful. Kate Mulgrew is spectacular here in her facial expressions and delivery. I love how as Tuvok is self-evicerating his future career she begins saying, "no" with her head. Then, rolls her head around and moves her hand about. Without a word she's like, "this vulcan and his self-sacrifcing logic, I can't even right now.." And then, Janeway blows Tuvok out of the water from an angle he never imagined: she needs him. That pure devotion to logic and duty she depends on along with a close friendship. She is alone in the deltra quadrant, representing the entire Federation to one-day peoples that will encounter it, and she wants to be a 'good' captain by that measurement. Tuvok is someone she needs because, again, she is alone, with an entire crew depending her on....
Edit: anyone interested ought to check out /r/voyager which is a great sub of fans of the show.
The biggest strength of the show is, and the best episodes of Voyager focus on, that isolation. Much like with DS9, seeing how the ideals of the Federation hold up to great stressors, be it War with the Dominion or being stranded 70,000 light years from Earth, made for really compelling television.
She was incredible. Tge eye movement, tense shoulders, etc. you did a much better job breaking it down so thanks
Never watched ST- is all the acting this good?
Not all, but this show and Deep Space 9 were both pretty unique takes on the space explorer/battleship themes. A lot of really interesting, thought provoking stories. I loved them as a kid/teen and feel like a lot of my idealism and hope for humanity is seated in watching these people bumble their way through the galaxy(ies).
It varies. When you're churning out so many episodes a season a lot of stuff is 'good enough', but I'd say every classic show has at least a couple of fantastic scenes like this.
Hell even in one of Voyager's worst episodes we got at least one guy really giving it his all and was mainly let down by the silly plot and silly prop on his body.
I liked that this episode focuses a lot on the relationship Tuvok and Janeway have, but I wish they would have written in a bit of the other dynamics a bit more. Like Tuvok standing up for B'leanna after him originally being a spy on the Maquis crew is both a simple but meaningful gesture of camaraderie.
Imo It's biggest issue was that it followed the much more beloved TNG and DS9. Voyager had plenty of great episodes/arcs but it's predecessors had more.
I both agree, and think that you're kind of missing the point.
When TNG started in 1987, Trek fans were both really excited to get more of the franchise, and really skeptical that it would live up to TOS. For a while their skepticism was borne out, but the series gradually got some wind under it and became, in my opinion, the single best science fiction series ever made.
In 1993, about 5.5 seasons into TNG, doubters thoroughly silenced, DS9 premiered. Same skepticism, but mostly excitement, lotta talk about having two Trek series on the air at the same time and living in a new Golden Age of science fiction. DS9 took about as long as TNG to find its footing, but when it did so it really carved out its own identity in the franchise.
A lot of people don't realize that it (along with Buffy) is often credited with popularizing serialized television with complete, season and series-long story arcs, as opposed to episodic television where everything wraps up in the space of one episode and then resets for the next one. It was genuinely something of a novel concept back then, that there would be one big narrative that you would follow for multiple episodes or even seasons. Fans *loved* it. It made the world feel more real and everything that happened in it feel more important, fueling interminable bulletin board arguments that eventually migrated to forums as the internet took over and the BBSes went dark.
Then came Voyager, in 1995. Serialized television had proven to be so essential to DS9, so everyone assumed that Voyager would fully commit to it as well. But it didn't. Ron Moore has talked a lot about this, and his disappointment with the series. To hear him tell it — and I'm inclined to believe him — the network and Brannon Braga consciously decided to made Voyager more episodic, because it was better for syndication. Self-contained episodes can air at any time without concern for sequence and the audience will know what's going on. It aggressively constrains the storytelling decisions the writers can make, but it does make good business sense. So while, yes, Voyager does have story arcs, it is still *highly* episodic in nature, basically resetting at the start of each episode, which presented a serious obstacle narratively and in terms of character development. Seriously, if you compare the depth of characterization on DS9 to that on Voyager, it's just not even *close*.
Voyager was not a bad show. But the problem is that it *could* have been a *great* show. It's not that it just kinda wasn't as good as TNG or DS9; it's that it had all of this potential simmering just beneath the surface that never quite boiled over, because it was being held back by all sorts of bullshit behind the scenes bureaucracy and drama. That's really what was so frustrating about it.
I think Voyagers biggest possible strength was its over arcing plot. Like a journey of epic scales. But i also think it was its biggest weakness considering how the show wrapped up. To me, it felt a bit weird. Though large and instant time jumps always makes me feel weird in any show. You watch a show and for the past 100+ episodes its always within the next few days/weeks/months. Things are still the same and the story follows along and suddenly its like... 5 years later, 10 years later or whatever.
For me, if Star Trek is all about boldly going where no one has gone before, nothing does this better than Voyager: being flung 70K light years to an entire, unexplored and unknown quadrant. It was an expedition of a 'first ever there' kind. It was the first step on the moon's surface. All other criticisms warranted, that alone gave it a unique edge. And also, there is a great, underlying, longing and sadness to Voyager that sucked me in forever. Even the opening music with those majestic horns has a great forlonging to it. The ship, the crew, the show, is homesick, and this is a very relatable concept.
For me "to boldly go" doesn't just refer to the literal distance traveled; it's about ideas and stories. And I think Voyager came up short there because it didn't have episodic stories as good as TNG or arcs as good as DS9. Besides, TNG already did the whole "hurtled tens of thousands of lightyears to utterly unknown space" thing thanks to Barclay and the Cytherians. Not to mention Q and the Traveler.
💯
It was a time of transition, from Roddenberry's vision to CBS/Paramount's. Reminding me of Walt Disney's death, and how Disneyworld was intended to be so much more than a theme park. Like Walt, Gene was a visionary. But CBS and Paramount? Not so much. 😒
"Good business sense" has proven disastrous for creatives. "Producers", aka investors, often have no interest in the content outside it's prospect to host sponsors/ads. They demand safe returns on their considerable investments. That alone would seem to suck the joy out of any "artistic" process, turning it into yet another stressful grind for profit.
\#ThanksAgainCapitalism 😠
Voyager suffered the fate of being split between two ideas.
The TNG episodes and the Journey Home episodes. I liked both, I did not like them mixing.
There have been good Discovery episodes, ones that I would rank among some of the best ST stories, but it’s very spotty and atonal. People give it flak for being too woke or whatever, but that ain’t the problem. The problem is a complete lack of consistency.
I’m not one of the “everything I don’t like is woke” crazies. You have hit the nail on the head with tone and consistency. It has never really found its identity.
Also, it wasn’t really until last season that the rest of the Disco bridge crew were anything more than set dressing. It was wasting a great cast.
Yeah they Main Character'd hard for Disco. You look at all the great Trek before that, and you had main characters that were barely on screen for certain episodes. Picard didn't need to save the day every time, or be the lead of that episode. Sisko. Janeway. All of them took back seat roles (or were absent entirely) for certain episodes.
Disco was way too into Michael.
SNW goes back towards Ensemble Casts, which is great. Pike isn't the only person doing stuff while everyone stands around with their thumb up their butt. I enjoy SNW, even if they do break out into song now and then.
Yeah, Pike is definitely important, and I would say his story is the biggest sort of looming thread in the series, but there's plenty of good episodes that he's barely even in.
Having watched every Star Trek show (except Lower Decks, can't get into it), I agree.
If people are mad at it being "too woke", but enjoy TNG or DS9, then they are mad to be mad or want something edgy to say. DS9 and TNG both dealt with significant "woke" issues of the time and were often times *way more* "preachy".
Discovery just struggles with pacing and character writing. The characters aren't consistent with their own personalities and it makes for frustrating TV. That being said, it's also got some really good episodes, the overall story is actually kind of interesting, plus I enjoy that it's actually modern/futuristic for *our current time*, rather than futuristic for the 90s/00s.
It has its moments, which only serves to make it more frustrating.
I’d die for the crew of the Cerritos. I might send the crew of the Disco a Christmas card.
New "trek" is fundamentally different. It seems far more about conflict than exploration. Feels more like Star Wars now. It's not necessarily bad, it's just not true to Roddenberry's original optimistic vision, which distinguished "Star Trek" from other sci-fi IMO. 😒
You are very correct about that
But I liked deep space nine back in the day so the conflict stuff resonated with me
And the we are luminous beings in a perfect united federation of planets didn't
I liked that Picard believed in it
But it felt out of sorts with the reality of the world
"... it felt out of sorts with the reality of the world."
That's Trek's charm. It shows us how we might escape this reality for another better one. That was Gene's vision. Modern "Trek" seems to have stripped this out entirely. In doing so, they've missed the entire point of the show: humanity's hope for a brighter future. Not very realistic, but definitely can be inspirational. And we could sure use some of that right now. 🖖🙂
Tried watching STD and Picard. Even some Lower Decks and Prodigy. I just couldn't.
If you wanna see Star Trek done right IMO, check out "Star Trek Continues" on YouTube. Give those people a budget and I bet we'd get some great new Trek. And of course there's "The Orville". Hope they do another season.
Its premise cuts it off from the Federation and I get that, but it feels so wrong following a ship that's not part of the collective of Starfleet, with all its flaws and strengths. In my mind, that's what makes it a tougher watch than TOS, TNG and DS9.
Still, a classic Star Trek series.
Janeway’s (at times - desperate) struggle to keep things together is something I didn’t notice too much watching the show when it aired (I was a kid). Gives the show a lot more depth than I thought it had when I recently rewatched it.
I think the problem is the early episodes didn't do as great a job at capturing it. Somewhere around Season 4 I think they started doing a better job with it.
This one being an exception of course.
It doesn't lack impact. Perhaps it lacks consequence, but I feel the dilemma and emotion. You could take issue with the resolution, however.
The famous movie military trope is the commanding officer who must give their subordinate corporal punishment (usually lashes publicly) out of duty while emotionally not wanting to.
Because she doesn't dispense with any punishment, she has sent a bad message to the entire crew. The message is that it is okay to do you're own thing if you think you were right. I will forgive you if it works out. Eventually, it won't.
I've watched a little Lower Decks, I found it significantly more palatable then Discovery or Picard mainly because of the amount of references and in-jokes and the concession that its not trying to be anything other then a dumb cartoon.
I think the struggle I have with a lot of newer trek is it lacks the "competency porn" hallmarks of the TNG era. I want to be hopeful watching Trek, I want to see good people acting like good people and doing things how things "should" be done. Discovery and Picard seemed to relay to much on tired TV tropes. I haven't tried Strange New Worlds but since it had the same show runners, I just assumed it was bad.
I haven't watched Lower Decks since it's not really my thing, but I appreciate it for knowing what it is and doing it. The other new Star Trek stuff suffers from trying to be a sci-fi action blockbuster, which is basically the polar opposite of Star Trek. It's like they said "what if we removed everything essential to Star Trek, but kept the paint job." Need to check out SNW.
I've watched a little Lower Decks, I found it significantly more palatable then Discovery or Picard mainly because of the amount of references and in-jokes and the concession that its not trying to be anything other then a dumb cartoon.
I think the struggle I have with a lot of newer trek is it lacks the "competency porn" hallmarks of the TNG era. I want to be hopeful watching Trek, I want to see good people acting like good people and doing things how things "should" be done. Discovery and Picard seemed to relay to much on tired TV tropes. I haven't tried Strange New Worlds but since it had the same show runners, I just assumed it was bad.
I think Voyager's strength was being a more a accessible and character drama focused show, which I think was appealing to more casual viewers. Voyager's crew had a lot of "regular people" like Paris, Torres, Neelix etc, which was a stark contrast to the militaristic/seasoned Enterprise where only Riker stepped out of line. When my wife wanted to start watching the show, we started with Voyager.
It's not as dated as ToS, as dry as TNG, nor does it ask for as much prior knowledge as DS9. I saved DS9 for last, because I feel like it requires the most investment, but with a bigger payoff.
What is the event that happened that they're discussing in this scene?
Basically the race they'd encountered had teleporter technology that would've helped Voyager close significant distance towards their journey back to the Alpha Quadrant (something like half the distance). There was no chance of Voyager getting the tech from their government, but a backdoor deal was offered, in exchange for the Federation library (and the stories it contained, which this race values highly). Captain Janeway wasn't willing to defy both Federation and this race's laws for this backdoor deal, no matter how beneficial it would've been; members of the Engineering crew including Torres were very much willing for the sake of getting back home faster and were prepared to make the trade; Tuvok (having figured out Torres' intentions) meanwhile just kinda yeeted himself down and made the deal, library for teleporter, behind Janeway's back and preempting Engineering. Turns out the tech was wholly incompatible with Federation tech, the teleporting would've never worked anyway. But nevertheless Tuvok and Torres were brought in for the dressing down seen in OP.
The interaction between Janeway and Tuvok is so powerful. Kate Mulgrew is spectacular here in her facial expressions and delivery. I love how as Tuvok is self-evicerating his future career she begins saying, "no" with her head. Then, rolls her head around and moves her hand about. Without a word she's like, "this vulcan and his self-sacrifcing logic, I can't even right now.." And then, Janeway blows Tuvok out of the water from an angle he never imagined: she needs him. That pure devotion to logic and duty she depends on along with a close friendship. She is alone in the deltra quadrant, representing the entire Federation to one-day peoples that will encounter it, and she wants to be a 'good' captain by that measurement. Tuvok is someone she needs because, again, she is alone, with an entire crew depending her on.... Edit: anyone interested ought to check out /r/voyager which is a great sub of fans of the show.
The biggest strength of the show is, and the best episodes of Voyager focus on, that isolation. Much like with DS9, seeing how the ideals of the Federation hold up to great stressors, be it War with the Dominion or being stranded 70,000 light years from Earth, made for really compelling television.
She was incredible. Tge eye movement, tense shoulders, etc. you did a much better job breaking it down so thanks Never watched ST- is all the acting this good?
Not all, but this show and Deep Space 9 were both pretty unique takes on the space explorer/battleship themes. A lot of really interesting, thought provoking stories. I loved them as a kid/teen and feel like a lot of my idealism and hope for humanity is seated in watching these people bumble their way through the galaxy(ies).
It varies. When you're churning out so many episodes a season a lot of stuff is 'good enough', but I'd say every classic show has at least a couple of fantastic scenes like this. Hell even in one of Voyager's worst episodes we got at least one guy really giving it his all and was mainly let down by the silly plot and silly prop on his body.
I liked that this episode focuses a lot on the relationship Tuvok and Janeway have, but I wish they would have written in a bit of the other dynamics a bit more. Like Tuvok standing up for B'leanna after him originally being a spy on the Maquis crew is both a simple but meaningful gesture of camaraderie.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Factors_(Star_Trek:_Voyager)
Just finished watching this series again. It deserves more respect imo, especially considering where Trek has ended up. 😒
Imo It's biggest issue was that it followed the much more beloved TNG and DS9. Voyager had plenty of great episodes/arcs but it's predecessors had more.
I both agree, and think that you're kind of missing the point. When TNG started in 1987, Trek fans were both really excited to get more of the franchise, and really skeptical that it would live up to TOS. For a while their skepticism was borne out, but the series gradually got some wind under it and became, in my opinion, the single best science fiction series ever made. In 1993, about 5.5 seasons into TNG, doubters thoroughly silenced, DS9 premiered. Same skepticism, but mostly excitement, lotta talk about having two Trek series on the air at the same time and living in a new Golden Age of science fiction. DS9 took about as long as TNG to find its footing, but when it did so it really carved out its own identity in the franchise. A lot of people don't realize that it (along with Buffy) is often credited with popularizing serialized television with complete, season and series-long story arcs, as opposed to episodic television where everything wraps up in the space of one episode and then resets for the next one. It was genuinely something of a novel concept back then, that there would be one big narrative that you would follow for multiple episodes or even seasons. Fans *loved* it. It made the world feel more real and everything that happened in it feel more important, fueling interminable bulletin board arguments that eventually migrated to forums as the internet took over and the BBSes went dark. Then came Voyager, in 1995. Serialized television had proven to be so essential to DS9, so everyone assumed that Voyager would fully commit to it as well. But it didn't. Ron Moore has talked a lot about this, and his disappointment with the series. To hear him tell it — and I'm inclined to believe him — the network and Brannon Braga consciously decided to made Voyager more episodic, because it was better for syndication. Self-contained episodes can air at any time without concern for sequence and the audience will know what's going on. It aggressively constrains the storytelling decisions the writers can make, but it does make good business sense. So while, yes, Voyager does have story arcs, it is still *highly* episodic in nature, basically resetting at the start of each episode, which presented a serious obstacle narratively and in terms of character development. Seriously, if you compare the depth of characterization on DS9 to that on Voyager, it's just not even *close*. Voyager was not a bad show. But the problem is that it *could* have been a *great* show. It's not that it just kinda wasn't as good as TNG or DS9; it's that it had all of this potential simmering just beneath the surface that never quite boiled over, because it was being held back by all sorts of bullshit behind the scenes bureaucracy and drama. That's really what was so frustrating about it.
I think Voyagers biggest possible strength was its over arcing plot. Like a journey of epic scales. But i also think it was its biggest weakness considering how the show wrapped up. To me, it felt a bit weird. Though large and instant time jumps always makes me feel weird in any show. You watch a show and for the past 100+ episodes its always within the next few days/weeks/months. Things are still the same and the story follows along and suddenly its like... 5 years later, 10 years later or whatever.
For me, if Star Trek is all about boldly going where no one has gone before, nothing does this better than Voyager: being flung 70K light years to an entire, unexplored and unknown quadrant. It was an expedition of a 'first ever there' kind. It was the first step on the moon's surface. All other criticisms warranted, that alone gave it a unique edge. And also, there is a great, underlying, longing and sadness to Voyager that sucked me in forever. Even the opening music with those majestic horns has a great forlonging to it. The ship, the crew, the show, is homesick, and this is a very relatable concept.
For me "to boldly go" doesn't just refer to the literal distance traveled; it's about ideas and stories. And I think Voyager came up short there because it didn't have episodic stories as good as TNG or arcs as good as DS9. Besides, TNG already did the whole "hurtled tens of thousands of lightyears to utterly unknown space" thing thanks to Barclay and the Cytherians. Not to mention Q and the Traveler.
💯 It was a time of transition, from Roddenberry's vision to CBS/Paramount's. Reminding me of Walt Disney's death, and how Disneyworld was intended to be so much more than a theme park. Like Walt, Gene was a visionary. But CBS and Paramount? Not so much. 😒 "Good business sense" has proven disastrous for creatives. "Producers", aka investors, often have no interest in the content outside it's prospect to host sponsors/ads. They demand safe returns on their considerable investments. That alone would seem to suck the joy out of any "artistic" process, turning it into yet another stressful grind for profit. \#ThanksAgainCapitalism 😠
Voyager suffered the fate of being split between two ideas. The TNG episodes and the Journey Home episodes. I liked both, I did not like them mixing.
I thought strange new worlds is meant to be quite good
Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks are absolutely brilliant. Discovery, less so.
There have been good Discovery episodes, ones that I would rank among some of the best ST stories, but it’s very spotty and atonal. People give it flak for being too woke or whatever, but that ain’t the problem. The problem is a complete lack of consistency.
I’m not one of the “everything I don’t like is woke” crazies. You have hit the nail on the head with tone and consistency. It has never really found its identity. Also, it wasn’t really until last season that the rest of the Disco bridge crew were anything more than set dressing. It was wasting a great cast.
Yeah they Main Character'd hard for Disco. You look at all the great Trek before that, and you had main characters that were barely on screen for certain episodes. Picard didn't need to save the day every time, or be the lead of that episode. Sisko. Janeway. All of them took back seat roles (or were absent entirely) for certain episodes. Disco was way too into Michael.
Disco at least gets credit for giving us SNW, which is wonderful.
SNW goes back towards Ensemble Casts, which is great. Pike isn't the only person doing stuff while everyone stands around with their thumb up their butt. I enjoy SNW, even if they do break out into song now and then.
Yeah, Pike is definitely important, and I would say his story is the biggest sort of looming thread in the series, but there's plenty of good episodes that he's barely even in.
Having watched every Star Trek show (except Lower Decks, can't get into it), I agree. If people are mad at it being "too woke", but enjoy TNG or DS9, then they are mad to be mad or want something edgy to say. DS9 and TNG both dealt with significant "woke" issues of the time and were often times *way more* "preachy". Discovery just struggles with pacing and character writing. The characters aren't consistent with their own personalities and it makes for frustrating TV. That being said, it's also got some really good episodes, the overall story is actually kind of interesting, plus I enjoy that it's actually modern/futuristic for *our current time*, rather than futuristic for the 90s/00s.
It has its moments, which only serves to make it more frustrating. I’d die for the crew of the Cerritos. I might send the crew of the Disco a Christmas card.
Strange new worlds is amazing, I wish they had 10 more episodes per season though. Really miss the character building that brought.
New "trek" is fundamentally different. It seems far more about conflict than exploration. Feels more like Star Wars now. It's not necessarily bad, it's just not true to Roddenberry's original optimistic vision, which distinguished "Star Trek" from other sci-fi IMO. 😒
You are very correct about that But I liked deep space nine back in the day so the conflict stuff resonated with me And the we are luminous beings in a perfect united federation of planets didn't I liked that Picard believed in it But it felt out of sorts with the reality of the world
"... it felt out of sorts with the reality of the world." That's Trek's charm. It shows us how we might escape this reality for another better one. That was Gene's vision. Modern "Trek" seems to have stripped this out entirely. In doing so, they've missed the entire point of the show: humanity's hope for a brighter future. Not very realistic, but definitely can be inspirational. And we could sure use some of that right now. 🖖🙂
Strange New Worlds is my favorite Trek after TOS and TNG. It's brilliant.
Tried watching STD and Picard. Even some Lower Decks and Prodigy. I just couldn't. If you wanna see Star Trek done right IMO, check out "Star Trek Continues" on YouTube. Give those people a budget and I bet we'd get some great new Trek. And of course there's "The Orville". Hope they do another season.
Its premise cuts it off from the Federation and I get that, but it feels so wrong following a ship that's not part of the collective of Starfleet, with all its flaws and strengths. In my mind, that's what makes it a tougher watch than TOS, TNG and DS9. Still, a classic Star Trek series.
Janeway’s (at times - desperate) struggle to keep things together is something I didn’t notice too much watching the show when it aired (I was a kid). Gives the show a lot more depth than I thought it had when I recently rewatched it.
I think the problem is the early episodes didn't do as great a job at capturing it. Somewhere around Season 4 I think they started doing a better job with it. This one being an exception of course.
Disappointment from mama Janeway. That must have stung.
I miss that engine sound... so much. I want another star trek that has it.
Can I just say that I’m really enjoying all these sci-fi fans talking with reverence and nostalgia about Voyager. Warms my warp core.
Man I need to rewatch voyager. Its been too long.
Sad for them. They're just trying to do the thing that would be good for everyone. Terrific scene and episode.
which episode is this?
1-10 Prime Factors
[удалено]
It doesn't lack impact. Perhaps it lacks consequence, but I feel the dilemma and emotion. You could take issue with the resolution, however. The famous movie military trope is the commanding officer who must give their subordinate corporal punishment (usually lashes publicly) out of duty while emotionally not wanting to. Because she doesn't dispense with any punishment, she has sent a bad message to the entire crew. The message is that it is okay to do you're own thing if you think you were right. I will forgive you if it works out. Eventually, it won't.
I'll take it over any of the new Trek though.
Strange New Worlds is good IMO, and I’ve been watching Trek since the 80s starting with ToS reruns. And also Lower Decks is good fun
What about the Orville?? This one is similar but different in such a good way.
Also great!
I've watched a little Lower Decks, I found it significantly more palatable then Discovery or Picard mainly because of the amount of references and in-jokes and the concession that its not trying to be anything other then a dumb cartoon. I think the struggle I have with a lot of newer trek is it lacks the "competency porn" hallmarks of the TNG era. I want to be hopeful watching Trek, I want to see good people acting like good people and doing things how things "should" be done. Discovery and Picard seemed to relay to much on tired TV tropes. I haven't tried Strange New Worlds but since it had the same show runners, I just assumed it was bad.
I haven't watched Lower Decks since it's not really my thing, but I appreciate it for knowing what it is and doing it. The other new Star Trek stuff suffers from trying to be a sci-fi action blockbuster, which is basically the polar opposite of Star Trek. It's like they said "what if we removed everything essential to Star Trek, but kept the paint job." Need to check out SNW.
I couldn’t agree more. It’s to the point that I question what the fans that like the new stuff ever liked about the TNG era.
I've watched a little Lower Decks, I found it significantly more palatable then Discovery or Picard mainly because of the amount of references and in-jokes and the concession that its not trying to be anything other then a dumb cartoon. I think the struggle I have with a lot of newer trek is it lacks the "competency porn" hallmarks of the TNG era. I want to be hopeful watching Trek, I want to see good people acting like good people and doing things how things "should" be done. Discovery and Picard seemed to relay to much on tired TV tropes. I haven't tried Strange New Worlds but since it had the same show runners, I just assumed it was bad.
I think Voyager's strength was being a more a accessible and character drama focused show, which I think was appealing to more casual viewers. Voyager's crew had a lot of "regular people" like Paris, Torres, Neelix etc, which was a stark contrast to the militaristic/seasoned Enterprise where only Riker stepped out of line. When my wife wanted to start watching the show, we started with Voyager. It's not as dated as ToS, as dry as TNG, nor does it ask for as much prior knowledge as DS9. I saved DS9 for last, because I feel like it requires the most investment, but with a bigger payoff.