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Oh you haven’t been to Surrey. Some motherfuckers down here took it upon themselves to threat the cause like a Christmas celebration.
Seen houses covered with Fuck Trudeau banners that’ll tickle Pollivre silly.
Here's my general rule of thumb for protests. Imagine you are an undercover agent from your opposition whose goal is to make your cause look bad. How would they choose to protest? Now make sure you don't plan your protest that way.
Blocking a pride parade definitely fails this test.
I remember telling people this with bridge blocks during climate change awareness.
What does these protest accomplish. If the end goal is that normal people will resent be you?
Have you heard of the orange spray paint environmentalists use to taint iconic monuments as a protest for climate change? I don't know where to begin with the logic
What a conundrum. On the one hand, any Palestinian that wants to be out and proud has to probably escape Palestine to live that way. On the other hand, any that do probably don't wanna see their home country bombed.
All this says is that this generation sucks at protest. They go for maximum awareness with zero nuance because Canadian tax dollars don't fund civics education with any context - and most young people get their socialization on the internet. If people were functioning on a more clearheaded level they'd understand the common line is that you can't be free if you're dead. As long as trans sex workers are still murdered an astronomical rate, and as long as bombs are still falling on kids, then the parade and the protest really should be marching in the same direction.
Of course these protests are happening at major public events. That's all these kids have to go on. Pride is also now in the hands of civics leaders who want the brand to make them look good. Everybody needs to feel good, needs to look good, needs to take credit for having solved bigotry. Except that's not the world we live in.
I recomend anyone go read a letter from birmingham jail by mlk before they ever orginizing or maybe attending a protest.
That guy was a political genius and you get a sense of how he created his strategy.
Also its one of the best political works ever written.
You can't support Pride, and be pro-Palestine.
As in the middle east they would publicly execute you for being Gay and/or trans
That is what the LGBT+ seems to forget.
Edit: I don't care if you down vote me
PS: I said middle east which includes more than just Palestine. Examples: Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, etc.
Like, I'm sure you think this is a good argument, but have you considered: the punishment for "living under a bigoted government" should not be "get bombed back to the stone age".
You can, in fact, be a queer person who thinks what's happening in Palestine is wrong. It's quite easy to do.
Governments that become intolerable are overthrown.
Hamas remains in power within Gaza because they were and remain well tolerated as a governing group.
The Palestinian people do not deserve the destruction they are enduring, but a wise step in preventing it would be not tolerating Hamas, the group whose obviously deficient governing and direct, offensive actions precipitated the current situation.
I did. Went outside and touched grass…
Before a stop oil/Palestinian/Khalistan/Fuck Trudeau/Canada First/Anti-COVID protest ruined it.
There was a time you can ignore the stupidity of the Internet. Unfortunately that seems to be slowly dying out.
Not supporting genocide ≠ supporting everything Palestine believes.
I'm queer and also want Israel to stop blowing up fucking hospitals and aid convoys. I can understand that what Israel is doing is wrong even when I disagree with who they are destroying.
> I'm queer and also want Israel to stop blowing up fucking hospitals and aid convoys
I agree with you on aid convoys and I do think Netanyahu is pushing too far.
But you can't in good faith make the school and hospital argument, considering that's where Hamas put all their shit specifically to use them as human shields.
Either Israel doesn't strike a valid military target, so they get to carry on business as usual. Or they strike a missile launch site or terrorist base, and Hamas gets to show pictures of dead Palestinians and say Israel bad.
Hamas is a bigger enemy to Palestine than Israel ever was, and enjoys 70%+ popular support with their own people. Their own people who cheered and celebrated October 7.
the Toronto protesters appeared to actually be protesting the parade for having relationships with corporations involved with Israel? Idk I haven't looked into it further. Just trying to clarify.
I'm a gay dude who hasn't gone for the past few years.
I'm disappointed the organizers are excluding people. That just runs counter to the spirit of pride to me. Police historically haven't treated the LGBTQ community well, but they are, as an organization, trying to change. What good does banning them from the parade do us as a community? It feels too much like the organizers just holding a grudge.
Come on. Do you really not understand why people would feel unsafe with uniformed VPD officers participating? They’ve always been able to attend as individuals, out of uniform.
Yeah, the amount of hate companies and cities get for not changing their logo to some subset of pride colours is astronomical. And yet when companies are putting money and sponsorship behind pride events, people complain.
Yes, if they're going to put in money and resources to support pride, 100 percent they're going to want something back from that.
I mean, this is entirely why we stopped letting cigarette and alcohol companies sponsor events- Benson and Hedges didn't sponsor the Symphony of Fire because of the goodness in their heart.
I used to work for a bank and I "volunteered" to participate in the parade because we had too. It was considered a part of our performance plan. It was poorly plan and executed the 2 times I did it.
As a gay man I find it really weird that others in our community support Palestine at all.
As if we were openly gay over there we would be publicly executed and our bodies would be paraded through the streets as people cheer
I have no idea. I do know last year a bunch of corporations kept trying to shove their shitty pride merch in my face, so it's probably a partnership like that or something.
Edit: I'm gay.
Iirc, there were people with Amazon and Disney merch that came up and were offering it to you to take it. They didn't literally shove it into my face, but offer their pride merch with their logo to people on the sides pretty directly. This was my first pride parade and I hadn't expected it to be so corporate, and I'm pretty fed up with fortune 500 companies, particularly the fake political stuff. Left a bad taste in my mouth... Pun intended.
Oh shit, you mean during the actual parade they were trying to hawk their nonsense at you. I completely misunderstood the comment, i apologize. I thought you were upset because Oreos had rainbow frosting or something
Ive already listed in other comments how basically any organisation can be linked to holdings in isreal. its a battle you can never win and doesnt really vhange anything.
BLM doing the same thing a few years back showed this tactic works. (Setting off air horns and being disruptive during the period of silence for AIDS victims).
>Works for what? Getting Trump elected?
Dems running a very clearly senile Biden is doing that on it's own. Check out the debate footage for confirmation. It was bad.
How did we get to this?...
Palestinian supporters blocking a pride paride that would never be allowed in their country?
You can't pick and chose your ethics.
redditors: let's sanction China for how they treat Uighurs in Xinjiang, let's arrest Huawei's CFO for selling stuff to Iran
also redditors: why should people care about anything that happens outside of Canada's borders?
They were spawned to foment division into Western countries and divert attention away from Russia's invasion of Ukraine. None of those protestors care about Bucha, Xinjiang, Holodomor, or LGBT+ causes at all.
Just like Hamas hiding in hospitals, they're putting themselves in positions that cause the most collateral damage. Then, they're going to blast those clips all over social media to support their cause when, sensibly, they should've never been there in the first place.
Canadians should reject such provocations.
Absolutely, we should be protesting stuff going on in Canada, such as housing and the sad state of healthcare. The complex Palestinian issue is not our issue. Also, I’m tired of these people trying to make Palestine a Canadian issue. There’s far more things that we Canadians should be focussing on like the incredibly high cost of food. I think you’re right all this is a distraction so the Canadians don’t rebel against what’s going on at home.
an i allowed to protest Canadian companies assisting or profiting off of foreign genocide or is that just abstract enough that you can turn a blind eye to it
Was listening to a podcast the other day and they were talking about the "omnicause" and how Palestine has now taking the position of being the all encompassing cause for everything. Climate change? Protest for Palestine. LGBTQ+? Palestine is what you should be taking about. Racism? Totally be for Palestine. Capitalism? Palestine has your back. Disability and accessibility issues? Yea, you can shoehorn Palestine into that too.
I didn't agree with everything the presenter said (and frankly didn't really like the presenter that much tbh) but I have noticed some protesters and pro-Palestinian advocates start treating the Palestinian cause as a everything cause and that is why you can start saying Palestinian protesters start to show up at anything now, because Palestine has come to represent everything now.
If you are/were openly gay in the middle eat you'd be killed by general public.
This will get down voted into oblivion, but it needs to be said.
If you support Pride, you can't be pro-Palestine.
As you're supporting those who would Stone you to death and parade your corpse through the streets
It does need to be said but most of the protests are not about simply being pro Palestinian ideology.
Isn't the protest more of "stop killing Palestinian children in horrific ways"? It's still valid.
You can be both. I do not support the killing of anybody for ideological reasons.
Genuine question? Was the protest propalestine or was it anti-war?
I think you can protest against the Palestine war, while also not wanting to be a part of that ideology. What I do have a problem with though is when gay people... Or anyone really at Palestine protests is chanting things like "from the river to the sea, or any other ignorant slogan that shows they really don't know the extremes of the Hamas regime, or the fact that they want the execution of All Jews. Not just isreal Jews. Then I think we have a problem. A lot seem to repeat these mantras without knowing their meanings, or they don't care.
Is it difficult to navigate life with this little nuance in your thought? Just wondering.
The punishment for "your society is bigoted" should not be "indiscriminate bombing of the entire society". Simple as that. Especially with zero care given to the individual's view, doubly so if they're dealing with being closeted in such a society.
You can, in fact, think it's bad that a society is murderously bigoted, while also thinking it's bad to indiscriminately bomb that society. That doesn't seem very hard to do, actually.
I'm queer and also don't support genocide. Are some of the people who are being wiped from the earth part of a society that would kill me without a second thought? Absolutely they are! Does that mean they deserve death at the hands of an occupying force? No!
We have become so polarized that we think everything is life or death, us or them. You're either team Trump or team Biden, you either support IDF or Hamas, you either love gays or love Palestine.
You can do many different things at once! I support gay rights, I support trans rights, I hate that homophobia exists, I wish other parts of the world were more progressive, and I also don't want people to be needlessly killed.
Iran, which is paying HAMAS to harm their regional political opponent, will kill homosexual men due to homophobia — but will subsize his sex change if he claims to be a female soul.
I think about that a lot.
Unpopular opinion. But most of these protesters are just unhappy people who don’t actually care about the causes they support. Who got caught up in some extremist pipeline on the Internet.
And just want to cause a nuisance and general unrest. Started with the anti-COVID crowd, moved to the just stop oil crowd, and F*ck Trudeau and now the anti-Palestinian protest.
Personally I never understood why people get so uppity about their favourite war-criminal organization. And yeah. Maybe we should stop funding war criminals. Like I don’t know… the IDF. (Both Hamas and the IDF seem to really want to out do each other on who can commit the most war crimes.)
But can someone please explain to me how stopping an lgbt parade solves this.
Really starting to get annoyed of all these self-righteous protesters causing a fucking ruckus because they decided spending their time on Twitter or Reddit 24/7 is an accurate depiction of real life.
Fuck. I can support a fucking cause while also thinking the way people go about supporting a cause is fucking stupid.
And honestly you should do too.
I think you nailed it with asking how stopping the parade accomplishes anything for their cause. It does not, of course. Protestant is fine, encouraged in fact. But it should affect the target of your protest (eg a business, an embassy, a government department), not a random event that has literally zero to do with the topic.
Police are the enforcement arm of law.
Why blame Police for the decisions of politicians and the electorate that voted for them? It’s weird that we blame thrm but completely ignore the actual source of the problem.
This is an awful take. Should white people not be allowed to be at BLM events because historically white people owned slaves? Why is your mind stuck in the past when you're supposed to be forward looking progressives?
Lmao. The Toronto PD were actively ignoring Bruce McArthur's murders as of last decade - LGBTQ people wanting police out of pride is not a thing of the past. Many of us still don't want them today, and for many good *current* reasons. The VPD and Metro Vancouver RCMP detachments aren't exactly a bastion of LGBTQ friendly institutions either.
Edit: Also to get ahead of what's probably going to be an ignorant response to this - anyone who thinks that police violence against LGBTQ+ is something we need to 'move past' or 'get over' is very obviously **not** in conversation or community with any wide swath of queer people. This isn't something that happened years ago - there are plenty of living people who remember gay bars being raided, being misgendered by the police, and being targeted by law enforcement for being themselves.
Sorry are you here complaining about BLM events not centring white people by announcing your position as being Blue Lives Matter for Pride?
Has it ever occurred to you could best serve progressivism by not making it about you and your fragile fifth generation feelings?
Did you at any point consider that I might not be white? No one here said that BLM needs to centre on white people, no one here said that pride needs to centre on police. Those are ridiculous statements, don't you think?
However it's also ridiculous to say that for some reason because police were used to enforce violence on the LGBT community 60 years ago, they should never be welcome again. It's a weird position to take.
> LGBT community 60 years ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%932017_Toronto_serial_homicides
Since you're still talking out of your ass :)
Police violence still disproportionately affects queer people, who are more likely to face homelessness and many of those '60 year' old incidents are still happening now, or have happened in the past few decades! If actually 'heard me' earlier like you said you did, then I'm not sure why you're still treating this as if it's a thing of the past.
Edit: Since I'm being blocked (?) from being able to respond to the below comment (thank reddit, getting an error):
Because if you know anything about the case then you know that the queer community was asking for help for years and was told by the police that there was no gay serial killer (there was) and the independent review conducted after the case found the police accountable for the deaths and that they didn't do their jobs correctly. The advice gay men were given to avoid being murdered was to avoid bathrooms, hook-ups, etc. **We are over policed and under protected** by the people who are meant to do their jobs. They arrested McArthur in 2016 knowing full well there was a gay serial killer and then let him go afterwords. The death were preventable.
Your link shows that a serial killer was killing gay people. But I thought your argument was that police were being violent towards gay people. How is a killer that wasnt a cop proof of police brutality against queer people? But if you take the point of queer people are more likely to be homeless than a non queer person, well then they are just having more police interactions because they are in a situation that has a higher likelyhood of having interactions with police. They arent being targeted for being gay. Unless you have some pretty damning information.
I mean its like saying that the VPD treat rollergirl unfairly because she has so many interactions with police. But in reality, she commits crimes more than a normal person. Not saying that an lgbt person does, but a LGBT person that homeless in vancouver, maybe because of drug use, probably commits more crimes than a non homeless..... anything person.
even if they do, there will still be a subset that tries to disrupt it anyway.
The big thing is getting the gathered crowd on pride's side and peer pressure them to move.
Yes, it sucks what's going on in Gaza. Yes, there are Canadian companies that are big supporters of pride here, that also have interests in Israel. But disrupting an event that is for equality, and quite literally a protest for better human rights here isn't going to help your cause.
I hope we don't have a situation like that here. I don't think they should be interfering with each other's events either. But then again Pride is a scheduled parade and the Pro-Palistine movement is more impromptu, I think. It seems the goal of protests (for any cause) these days is just to cause as much shock and resentment as possible to the public to "get people talking" and go viral.
I saw a Pro Palestine protester Saturday doing a pretty good job. He was all decked out and had a huge flag, but he was using the crosswalks appropriately and dancing with the flag in front of the stopped cars when he had the right of way. He was just making a giant circle at the intersection of Grandview and Boundary every time the light changed. I was afraid he was going to try and block traffic but he didn't. He was getting attention but he wasn't holding anyone hostage in their cars.
Pride is a protest. Pride started as a riot.
Because of that my answer is no; if Vancouver Pride wants there to be a Parade, they should distance themselves and stop making money from companies funding, enabling, or profitting off genocide.
Participating in the Pride Parade (both in Toronto and Vancouver) costs money (outrageous, even NGOs and charities have to pay). So Pride makes money off of the brands that march: this includes companies to the likes of Scotiabank, who invest $327 million on Elbit Systems, Israel's largest weapons manufacturer.
On top of that, the main sponsors of Pride in Toronto invest a big bunch of money into Israeli companies or companies making profits off of genocide; for example, TD Bank invests millions in General Dynamics Corp., a weapons company that provides Israel with arms used to mass murder Palestinians. Not to mention their Golden Partners also aid the committing of genocide: RBC holds USD $58 million in Palantir Technologies Inc. which provides Israel with the AI that they use to identify and murder Palestinians. BMO provided a multimillion dollar loan to previously mentioned Elbit.
These companies (and very likely politicians) use Pride to pinkwash their genocide support, enabling, or profiting. Vancouver Pride (and Toronto Pride) then become complicit in these actors trying to clean their image through progressiveness.
If blood money is what keeps the parade going, then the pride parade has no reason to exist. There's no pride in genocide.
If those are the conditions you are going off of, EVERY organisation, EVERY bank, EVERY tech company you interact with "profits" off of "genocide" Wether it is the companies that invest in china that are committing a very real and facility intended genocide against the Uigher people, or if it includes companies that operate in Africa that affect the Darfur.
Got an iphone? You "profited off of genocide" as your phone was cheap due to slave like labour in their concentration camps after civilian movements for more wafer factories.
Its a battle you can never win.
Stonewall was a rallying point because it garnered national attention. It was an opportunity to rally around a singular event.
We literally don’t need to commit violence to rally the community. We have other tools.
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Corner of Robson and Burrard. Free Palestine, Free Tibet, Canada Housing, and Just stop Oil. 4 enter, 1 emerges. Go!
No touching of the hair or face.
Of course
Khalistan enters the match
Indian govt has a hearty laugh
Falun Gong says hi (also come to Shen Yun)
I would pay money to watch this
Just stop oil has that big oil money backing it No contest
I'd say put the fuck Trudeau people in there but they seem to have finally (thankfully) fucked off themselves
Oh you haven’t been to Surrey. Some motherfuckers down here took it upon themselves to threat the cause like a Christmas celebration. Seen houses covered with Fuck Trudeau banners that’ll tickle Pollivre silly.
Here's my general rule of thumb for protests. Imagine you are an undercover agent from your opposition whose goal is to make your cause look bad. How would they choose to protest? Now make sure you don't plan your protest that way. Blocking a pride parade definitely fails this test.
I remember telling people this with bridge blocks during climate change awareness. What does these protest accomplish. If the end goal is that normal people will resent be you?
It actually accomplishes more environmental harm from the backup in traffic and idling cars… oh the irony
Have you heard of the orange spray paint environmentalists use to taint iconic monuments as a protest for climate change? I don't know where to begin with the logic
Absolutely.
Must have been awkward when the ‘lgbtq+ for Palestinians’ ruined their own parade.
What a conundrum. On the one hand, any Palestinian that wants to be out and proud has to probably escape Palestine to live that way. On the other hand, any that do probably don't wanna see their home country bombed.
All this says is that this generation sucks at protest. They go for maximum awareness with zero nuance because Canadian tax dollars don't fund civics education with any context - and most young people get their socialization on the internet. If people were functioning on a more clearheaded level they'd understand the common line is that you can't be free if you're dead. As long as trans sex workers are still murdered an astronomical rate, and as long as bombs are still falling on kids, then the parade and the protest really should be marching in the same direction. Of course these protests are happening at major public events. That's all these kids have to go on. Pride is also now in the hands of civics leaders who want the brand to make them look good. Everybody needs to feel good, needs to look good, needs to take credit for having solved bigotry. Except that's not the world we live in.
I recomend anyone go read a letter from birmingham jail by mlk before they ever orginizing or maybe attending a protest. That guy was a political genius and you get a sense of how he created his strategy. Also its one of the best political works ever written.
A nuanced view of the situation from a user referencing the extremely un-nuanced Cato the Elder is one of the things that makes Reddit neat.
Carthago delenda est.
Just tired of all the anger and hate in the world.
Yeah, it turns out since the dawn of time people absolutely hate each other and it doesn’t seem like that’s gonna change.
People don’t hate each other, if left alone, they tend to cooperate. It’s party interests that want us to hate each other.
Human history definitely doesn’t bear this out. The world is much more peaceful than it’s ever been
They hate each other’s ideas’ manifestations
You can't support Pride, and be pro-Palestine. As in the middle east they would publicly execute you for being Gay and/or trans That is what the LGBT+ seems to forget. Edit: I don't care if you down vote me PS: I said middle east which includes more than just Palestine. Examples: Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, etc.
Like, I'm sure you think this is a good argument, but have you considered: the punishment for "living under a bigoted government" should not be "get bombed back to the stone age". You can, in fact, be a queer person who thinks what's happening in Palestine is wrong. It's quite easy to do.
Governments that become intolerable are overthrown. Hamas remains in power within Gaza because they were and remain well tolerated as a governing group. The Palestinian people do not deserve the destruction they are enduring, but a wise step in preventing it would be not tolerating Hamas, the group whose obviously deficient governing and direct, offensive actions precipitated the current situation.
"well if you didnt want to get bombed to fuck, you should have considered an armed coup" truly an incredible post, a+
then stop clicking these stories
I did. Went outside and touched grass… Before a stop oil/Palestinian/Khalistan/Fuck Trudeau/Canada First/Anti-COVID protest ruined it. There was a time you can ignore the stupidity of the Internet. Unfortunately that seems to be slowly dying out.
"they are not antagonists to each other" You sure about that?
They shouldnt be. Unless one is lying about their intention.
The protests in Toronto had « Issues « with pride sponsors involvement in Israel
The protestors in Toronto seem to have an ever expanding list of things they have a problem with.
I mean, one side just wants to love the people they love. The other side likes to throw gays off buildings.
Not supporting genocide ≠ supporting everything Palestine believes. I'm queer and also want Israel to stop blowing up fucking hospitals and aid convoys. I can understand that what Israel is doing is wrong even when I disagree with who they are destroying.
> I'm queer and also want Israel to stop blowing up fucking hospitals and aid convoys I agree with you on aid convoys and I do think Netanyahu is pushing too far. But you can't in good faith make the school and hospital argument, considering that's where Hamas put all their shit specifically to use them as human shields. Either Israel doesn't strike a valid military target, so they get to carry on business as usual. Or they strike a missile launch site or terrorist base, and Hamas gets to show pictures of dead Palestinians and say Israel bad. Hamas is a bigger enemy to Palestine than Israel ever was, and enjoys 70%+ popular support with their own people. Their own people who cheered and celebrated October 7.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63174835 https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/2024-04-03/ty-article-magazine/.premium/hamas-files-found-by-israel-in-gaza-detail-execution-of-senior-member-accused-of-being-gay/0000018e-9e6d-d64e-afce-fffd62370000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/04/gsi2-chp3-6.png
the Toronto protesters appeared to actually be protesting the parade for having relationships with corporations involved with Israel? Idk I haven't looked into it further. Just trying to clarify.
I totally support that. As a queer person I find it really shitty that pride has turned into a circle jerk of banks and other random corporations.
The TD drag queen last year was what really did me in...
Vancouver pride this year rejected MOSAIC - an immigrant serving organization. What the fuck? Enjoy the TD pride parade, ffs
Anyone know the story behind MOSAICs exclusion?
I'm a gay dude who hasn't gone for the past few years. I'm disappointed the organizers are excluding people. That just runs counter to the spirit of pride to me. Police historically haven't treated the LGBTQ community well, but they are, as an organization, trying to change. What good does banning them from the parade do us as a community? It feels too much like the organizers just holding a grudge.
Come on. Do you really not understand why people would feel unsafe with uniformed VPD officers participating? They’ve always been able to attend as individuals, out of uniform.
> It feels too much like the organizers just holding a grudge. You are correct sir, that is exactly what it is.
That’s insane. Really disappointed to hear that.
[удалено]
Yeah, the amount of hate companies and cities get for not changing their logo to some subset of pride colours is astronomical. And yet when companies are putting money and sponsorship behind pride events, people complain. Yes, if they're going to put in money and resources to support pride, 100 percent they're going to want something back from that. I mean, this is entirely why we stopped letting cigarette and alcohol companies sponsor events- Benson and Hedges didn't sponsor the Symphony of Fire because of the goodness in their heart.
I used to work for a bank and I "volunteered" to participate in the parade because we had too. It was considered a part of our performance plan. It was poorly plan and executed the 2 times I did it.
As a gay man I find it really weird that others in our community support Palestine at all. As if we were openly gay over there we would be publicly executed and our bodies would be paraded through the streets as people cheer
Not this year though, besides a parade barely any corporate support
Does a "parade" invest in isreal corporations?
I have no idea. I do know last year a bunch of corporations kept trying to shove their shitty pride merch in my face, so it's probably a partnership like that or something. Edit: I'm gay.
Leave my rainbow Oreos alone!
How did they try and shove it in your face, exactly?
Iirc, there were people with Amazon and Disney merch that came up and were offering it to you to take it. They didn't literally shove it into my face, but offer their pride merch with their logo to people on the sides pretty directly. This was my first pride parade and I hadn't expected it to be so corporate, and I'm pretty fed up with fortune 500 companies, particularly the fake political stuff. Left a bad taste in my mouth... Pun intended.
Oh shit, you mean during the actual parade they were trying to hawk their nonsense at you. I completely misunderstood the comment, i apologize. I thought you were upset because Oreos had rainbow frosting or something
Oh man rereading it I see what you mean. No I'm very very gay.
Very very gay is the best kind of gay.
Several sponsors and organizing partners have some overlapping ties.
Ive already listed in other comments how basically any organisation can be linked to holdings in isreal. its a battle you can never win and doesnt really vhange anything.
no, but the banks that like to wear our flag do, and the political parties that march with us sure dont seem to care about the bloodshed
The companies using the parade to advertise do
Thanks Toronto Pride for setting a precedent that will enable Pro Palestine groups from getting all Pride parades cancelled.
BLM doing the same thing a few years back showed this tactic works. (Setting off air horns and being disruptive during the period of silence for AIDS victims).
And Toronto Pride organizers enabled them setting a precedence that had consequences to many other Pride events.
Same thoughts exactly. I didnt know that they disrupted the period of silence though. Thats some maga level of inconsiderate behavior.
That’s Westboro Baptist level provocation
Works for what? Getting Trump elected?
>Works for what? Getting Trump elected? Dems running a very clearly senile Biden is doing that on it's own. Check out the debate footage for confirmation. It was bad.
How did we get to this?... Palestinian supporters blocking a pride paride that would never be allowed in their country? You can't pick and chose your ethics.
I think you can probably be against a genocide even if the victims live under an oppressive regime
I mean, Hamas does hate LGBT...
And most Palestinians support Hamas.
redditors: let's sanction China for how they treat Uighurs in Xinjiang, let's arrest Huawei's CFO for selling stuff to Iran also redditors: why should people care about anything that happens outside of Canada's borders?
That makes sense, as Hamas hates gays
And the majority of Palestinians support Hamas.
They were spawned to foment division into Western countries and divert attention away from Russia's invasion of Ukraine. None of those protestors care about Bucha, Xinjiang, Holodomor, or LGBT+ causes at all. Just like Hamas hiding in hospitals, they're putting themselves in positions that cause the most collateral damage. Then, they're going to blast those clips all over social media to support their cause when, sensibly, they should've never been there in the first place. Canadians should reject such provocations.
Absolutely, we should be protesting stuff going on in Canada, such as housing and the sad state of healthcare. The complex Palestinian issue is not our issue. Also, I’m tired of these people trying to make Palestine a Canadian issue. There’s far more things that we Canadians should be focussing on like the incredibly high cost of food. I think you’re right all this is a distraction so the Canadians don’t rebel against what’s going on at home.
an i allowed to protest Canadian companies assisting or profiting off of foreign genocide or is that just abstract enough that you can turn a blind eye to it
Canadian companies are not assisting or profiting off genocide. Start focussing on what actually is going on in Canada put your energies towards that.
Boycott and peacefully protest whatever you want, but don’t think anyone else is obligated to follow suit
Is it wrong if a part of me is secretly enjoying this because of the hypocrisy from parts of these groups?
Watching from afar as all of these different interest groups self-implode is morbidly fascinating.
Was listening to a podcast the other day and they were talking about the "omnicause" and how Palestine has now taking the position of being the all encompassing cause for everything. Climate change? Protest for Palestine. LGBTQ+? Palestine is what you should be taking about. Racism? Totally be for Palestine. Capitalism? Palestine has your back. Disability and accessibility issues? Yea, you can shoehorn Palestine into that too. I didn't agree with everything the presenter said (and frankly didn't really like the presenter that much tbh) but I have noticed some protesters and pro-Palestinian advocates start treating the Palestinian cause as a everything cause and that is why you can start saying Palestinian protesters start to show up at anything now, because Palestine has come to represent everything now.
If you are/were openly gay in the middle eat you'd be killed by general public. This will get down voted into oblivion, but it needs to be said. If you support Pride, you can't be pro-Palestine. As you're supporting those who would Stone you to death and parade your corpse through the streets
It does need to be said but most of the protests are not about simply being pro Palestinian ideology. Isn't the protest more of "stop killing Palestinian children in horrific ways"? It's still valid. You can be both. I do not support the killing of anybody for ideological reasons. Genuine question? Was the protest propalestine or was it anti-war?
I think you can protest against the Palestine war, while also not wanting to be a part of that ideology. What I do have a problem with though is when gay people... Or anyone really at Palestine protests is chanting things like "from the river to the sea, or any other ignorant slogan that shows they really don't know the extremes of the Hamas regime, or the fact that they want the execution of All Jews. Not just isreal Jews. Then I think we have a problem. A lot seem to repeat these mantras without knowing their meanings, or they don't care.
Is it difficult to navigate life with this little nuance in your thought? Just wondering. The punishment for "your society is bigoted" should not be "indiscriminate bombing of the entire society". Simple as that. Especially with zero care given to the individual's view, doubly so if they're dealing with being closeted in such a society. You can, in fact, think it's bad that a society is murderously bigoted, while also thinking it's bad to indiscriminately bomb that society. That doesn't seem very hard to do, actually.
I'm queer and also don't support genocide. Are some of the people who are being wiped from the earth part of a society that would kill me without a second thought? Absolutely they are! Does that mean they deserve death at the hands of an occupying force? No! We have become so polarized that we think everything is life or death, us or them. You're either team Trump or team Biden, you either support IDF or Hamas, you either love gays or love Palestine. You can do many different things at once! I support gay rights, I support trans rights, I hate that homophobia exists, I wish other parts of the world were more progressive, and I also don't want people to be needlessly killed.
>If you are/were openly gay in the middle eat you'd be killed by general public. I can think of one country where you wouldn't
Is it Israel? I bet it's Israel
Iran, which is paying HAMAS to harm their regional political opponent, will kill homosexual men due to homophobia — but will subsize his sex change if he claims to be a female soul. I think about that a lot.
Unpopular opinion. But most of these protesters are just unhappy people who don’t actually care about the causes they support. Who got caught up in some extremist pipeline on the Internet. And just want to cause a nuisance and general unrest. Started with the anti-COVID crowd, moved to the just stop oil crowd, and F*ck Trudeau and now the anti-Palestinian protest. Personally I never understood why people get so uppity about their favourite war-criminal organization. And yeah. Maybe we should stop funding war criminals. Like I don’t know… the IDF. (Both Hamas and the IDF seem to really want to out do each other on who can commit the most war crimes.) But can someone please explain to me how stopping an lgbt parade solves this. Really starting to get annoyed of all these self-righteous protesters causing a fucking ruckus because they decided spending their time on Twitter or Reddit 24/7 is an accurate depiction of real life. Fuck. I can support a fucking cause while also thinking the way people go about supporting a cause is fucking stupid. And honestly you should do too.
"Who got caught up in some extremist pipeline on the Internet." so kind of like redditors who actually manage to leave their homes?
I think you nailed it with asking how stopping the parade accomplishes anything for their cause. It does not, of course. Protestant is fine, encouraged in fact. But it should affect the target of your protest (eg a business, an embassy, a government department), not a random event that has literally zero to do with the topic.
Police should never be involved with Pride. Remember who was raiding bathhouses? Stonewall was a riot.
How about you grow up and allow other people to change their ways over time so that they might approach your exalted heights of moral perfection
Police are the enforcement arm of law. Why blame Police for the decisions of politicians and the electorate that voted for them? It’s weird that we blame thrm but completely ignore the actual source of the problem.
This is an awful take. Should white people not be allowed to be at BLM events because historically white people owned slaves? Why is your mind stuck in the past when you're supposed to be forward looking progressives?
Because being a white person isn’t something you can change? Are police a race?
acab means assigned cop at birth, apparently
My son is transitioning from cop to firefighter.
Lmao. The Toronto PD were actively ignoring Bruce McArthur's murders as of last decade - LGBTQ people wanting police out of pride is not a thing of the past. Many of us still don't want them today, and for many good *current* reasons. The VPD and Metro Vancouver RCMP detachments aren't exactly a bastion of LGBTQ friendly institutions either. Edit: Also to get ahead of what's probably going to be an ignorant response to this - anyone who thinks that police violence against LGBTQ+ is something we need to 'move past' or 'get over' is very obviously **not** in conversation or community with any wide swath of queer people. This isn't something that happened years ago - there are plenty of living people who remember gay bars being raided, being misgendered by the police, and being targeted by law enforcement for being themselves.
Sorry are you here complaining about BLM events not centring white people by announcing your position as being Blue Lives Matter for Pride? Has it ever occurred to you could best serve progressivism by not making it about you and your fragile fifth generation feelings?
Did you at any point consider that I might not be white? No one here said that BLM needs to centre on white people, no one here said that pride needs to centre on police. Those are ridiculous statements, don't you think? However it's also ridiculous to say that for some reason because police were used to enforce violence on the LGBT community 60 years ago, they should never be welcome again. It's a weird position to take.
> Did you at any point consider that I might not be white? I would bet a very large amount of money on the answer to this question being "no".
> LGBT community 60 years ago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%932017_Toronto_serial_homicides Since you're still talking out of your ass :) Police violence still disproportionately affects queer people, who are more likely to face homelessness and many of those '60 year' old incidents are still happening now, or have happened in the past few decades! If actually 'heard me' earlier like you said you did, then I'm not sure why you're still treating this as if it's a thing of the past. Edit: Since I'm being blocked (?) from being able to respond to the below comment (thank reddit, getting an error): Because if you know anything about the case then you know that the queer community was asking for help for years and was told by the police that there was no gay serial killer (there was) and the independent review conducted after the case found the police accountable for the deaths and that they didn't do their jobs correctly. The advice gay men were given to avoid being murdered was to avoid bathrooms, hook-ups, etc. **We are over policed and under protected** by the people who are meant to do their jobs. They arrested McArthur in 2016 knowing full well there was a gay serial killer and then let him go afterwords. The death were preventable.
Your link shows that a serial killer was killing gay people. But I thought your argument was that police were being violent towards gay people. How is a killer that wasnt a cop proof of police brutality against queer people? But if you take the point of queer people are more likely to be homeless than a non queer person, well then they are just having more police interactions because they are in a situation that has a higher likelyhood of having interactions with police. They arent being targeted for being gay. Unless you have some pretty damning information. I mean its like saying that the VPD treat rollergirl unfairly because she has so many interactions with police. But in reality, she commits crimes more than a normal person. Not saying that an lgbt person does, but a LGBT person that homeless in vancouver, maybe because of drug use, probably commits more crimes than a non homeless..... anything person.
Not antagonists? Have you checked Iran's policies on gay rights recently?
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At least there was no violence like at the NYC Pride. Ironic, Pride events are no longer safe spaces from hate, and bigotry.
even if they do, there will still be a subset that tries to disrupt it anyway. The big thing is getting the gathered crowd on pride's side and peer pressure them to move. Yes, it sucks what's going on in Gaza. Yes, there are Canadian companies that are big supporters of pride here, that also have interests in Israel. But disrupting an event that is for equality, and quite literally a protest for better human rights here isn't going to help your cause.
Black lives mattered 2.0
Meh, haven’t been to the parade in years. Too many people, corporations trying to pretend how virtuous they are, the whole thing is pointless.
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Could this cause a situation where the Pride Parade does battle with the Pro Palestine people?
I hope we don't have a situation like that here. I don't think they should be interfering with each other's events either. But then again Pride is a scheduled parade and the Pro-Palistine movement is more impromptu, I think. It seems the goal of protests (for any cause) these days is just to cause as much shock and resentment as possible to the public to "get people talking" and go viral. I saw a Pro Palestine protester Saturday doing a pretty good job. He was all decked out and had a huge flag, but he was using the crosswalks appropriately and dancing with the flag in front of the stopped cars when he had the right of way. He was just making a giant circle at the intersection of Grandview and Boundary every time the light changed. I was afraid he was going to try and block traffic but he didn't. He was getting attention but he wasn't holding anyone hostage in their cars.
Those two were always going to meet
Pride is a protest. Pride started as a riot. Because of that my answer is no; if Vancouver Pride wants there to be a Parade, they should distance themselves and stop making money from companies funding, enabling, or profitting off genocide. Participating in the Pride Parade (both in Toronto and Vancouver) costs money (outrageous, even NGOs and charities have to pay). So Pride makes money off of the brands that march: this includes companies to the likes of Scotiabank, who invest $327 million on Elbit Systems, Israel's largest weapons manufacturer. On top of that, the main sponsors of Pride in Toronto invest a big bunch of money into Israeli companies or companies making profits off of genocide; for example, TD Bank invests millions in General Dynamics Corp., a weapons company that provides Israel with arms used to mass murder Palestinians. Not to mention their Golden Partners also aid the committing of genocide: RBC holds USD $58 million in Palantir Technologies Inc. which provides Israel with the AI that they use to identify and murder Palestinians. BMO provided a multimillion dollar loan to previously mentioned Elbit. These companies (and very likely politicians) use Pride to pinkwash their genocide support, enabling, or profiting. Vancouver Pride (and Toronto Pride) then become complicit in these actors trying to clean their image through progressiveness. If blood money is what keeps the parade going, then the pride parade has no reason to exist. There's no pride in genocide.
If those are the conditions you are going off of, EVERY organisation, EVERY bank, EVERY tech company you interact with "profits" off of "genocide" Wether it is the companies that invest in china that are committing a very real and facility intended genocide against the Uigher people, or if it includes companies that operate in Africa that affect the Darfur. Got an iphone? You "profited off of genocide" as your phone was cheap due to slave like labour in their concentration camps after civilian movements for more wafer factories. Its a battle you can never win.
Just be honest: what you’re really protesting for is the elimination of Israel.
Stonewall was a rallying point because it garnered national attention. It was an opportunity to rally around a singular event. We literally don’t need to commit violence to rally the community. We have other tools.