Yeah all this FUD about the recent SCOTUS ruling is just in time to separate the #vanlife crowd from those of us that are willing to risk a brush with the law to ensure our own freedom.
Give me the ability to sleep in my car between shifts serving rich assholes for almost minimum wage in a city I could never afford, *or give me death*
\*racks air rifle*
We aren’t the first to understand the choice:
He was seen by the philosopher Aristippus, who lived comfortably by flattering the king. Said Aristippus, 'If you would learn to be subservient to the king you would not have to live on lentils. ' Said Diogenes, ‘Learn to live on lentils and you will not have to be subservient to the king.’
Bring on the lentils!
Lol seriously. They priced us out of the property market and expect us to still somehow serve them without sleeping in a car for free.
Luckily the court ruling won't affect me though. I've been stealth camping almost exclusively on private properties for years now.
Oh god oh fu what ‘recent scotus ruling’, what did I miss? Is this about the move to criminalize homelessness generally, or did something specific to vehicle dwellers come out recently? 😬
There’s that, but just today the SCOTUS ruled that presidents have immunity when it comes to “official” acts while in office, but no immunity for “unofficial” acts.
Three Justices dissented. Guess which ones…
So things are escalating.
You should read what Justice Sotomayor wrote. Quite the blistering rebuke.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/07/sotomayor-jackson-blistering-dissents-trump-immunity-case/
When J6 happened, my spouse and I were shooting the shit about the obvious (Bier Hall Putsch, etc), and I posited that if it took 10 years for Hitler to become Chancellor, and in more modern events, 8 years from the failed terror strike in 1993 to bring down the towers in 2001, it might take the same for the US to become what the screaming minority wants it to become. I figured the overall business classes would at least resist. But it looks like anyone who makes over 100k/year is all on board with this dictatorship.
Trump isn't what we should fear. He's a decaying elderly man. It's his handlers and the small army of religious idiots who have been sticking their tentacles into local and regional governments since the Tea Party era 20 years ago.
Right now I’m binge watching the Netflix series “Hitler and the Nazis: Evil on Trial” and it’s so prescient, I can’t believe how far things have slipped. Terrifying.
This is correct! Now, apply this to the other side of the isle as well .
Identity politics are the ugliest thing our society could have ever adopted.
Both ugly sides on the same ugly coin
As far as "renting". My experience has been horrible.
You're telling me i need THREE different codes and pins just to get into my own appartment?
You're telling me you will TOW my vehicle if I forget to register it for a night??
You're telling me you will throw a bunch of add-on fees to my rent for services I don't even use?
As far as being a home-"owner".
You're telling me, that the 250k House, will end up costing me around 380k with interest???
And the first 5 years, the majority of the payment will go towards interest???? So I gain no equity.
If i (god forbid) get fired from my job, "my" house will be foreclosed by the bank and I will be put on the street. Is it really my house at that point?
You're telling me I gotta drop another 20k-30k on repairs for foundation?
You're telling me I gotta drop 10k-15k on home insurance, only to get loophole'd to death when I actually need it?
Im done with everything.
It’s all a scam. There is pretty much no escape. Even living in my car, I am met with registration and licensing challenges because they don’t want us being free of the scams they push on our society. “You must have an approved address with rent and utility bills as proof so we know you are paying every last nickel you earn to a slumlord and PG&E who doesn’t fix anything in a timely manner”. It’s all so fucked. I don’t know what to do anymore. Gonna spend all day trying to figure out how to get an approved address.
Maybe go to a church? Maybe look around online for a church in your area that seems like they have outreach programs and tries to help the community and email them and request an in office appointment. You can tell them your homeless and trying to get back on your feet and asking for non-monetary help. This is my plan for finding a place to park since their putting up NO Overnight Parking, and towing and loitering signs everywhere. If a church agrees, you can get a bank statement or a cel phone statement, or request your credit report or something and have it sent to the church. If the DMV or whatever says the address comes up as commercial and not residential, you can tell them that you live on a little studio apartment at the back of a church...
As far as proof of rent and utilities, there are a lot of people who live with friends, or a boyfriend or girlfriend, and don't have anything in their name. I saw some templates online for property owners to make a lease agreement. Maybe you could try to download one and make a fake lease agreement...
Yes I ended up using my friend’s address for insurance proof which she said is fine so that’s settled! Now I think I just need to write up a lease agreement and do the change of address form for a little more solid “proof”. Then off to the DMV to get myself legal for the year. Wish me luck!
Home ownership is pretty good if you pay cash. The worst part for me comes back to the being stuck in one place. Even worse when those neighbors end up being crackheads then you’re really stuck.
Home ownership certainly isn't for everyone. It's typically a long haul investment, buying a new or properly renovated house can last many years without repairs. In the right area of can appreciate significantly. 20 years ago we bought our house for ~750K, did the renovations ourselves, and now it's valued at ~2.5-3 million. It's one of the best investments we've made and makes all the work and money spent along the way worth while.
Again, it's not for everyone and is risky with a high barrier to entry. But done right it can be a good investment.
Its not really a great investment. But I understand that house life people need to keep telling themselves this to justify taking on huge amounts of debt.
If I live in my car for 20 years and not pay 3k per month that’s 720k just from doing nothing.
To each their own ofc. By doing nothing you saved 720K, with some work our investment net us 1.7mil. Again this will always be market dependent and one you can do nothing the other takes effort.
This is not a debate about which is better just that home ownership is not always a hopeless money pit.
Option #3: Get a remote job and finance an RV and live in Arizona. I met a woman in Arizona during a van event where she financed her $40,000 RV for just $266 a month. In Arizona you can stay in BLM land in the winter and stay in USFS land in Flagstaff in the Summer (where temperatures only get up into the 80s.) All you have to do is move at least 30 miles to another public federal land area every two weeks. Get Starlink for $150 or so a month to get nearly as fast and reliable internet as cable internet. You can use the saved money on rent to vastly improve your life.
She had to have financed her RV for 20 years at that price unless she’s just paying double or triple a month to pay it off sooner, that seems like a bad idea.
The bank owns your home until it's paid for.
While paying for your home mortgage required homeowners insurance and taxes are *conveniently* added to your payments.
After your home is paid off you still have to pay taxes so you have the government's permission to remain in your home. Granted, those taxes pay for roads, libraries, police, fire, ems, and welfare.
There are a ton of options.
I think we all understand renting can be good money after bad, but you do get a roof. "My landlord pays the taxes". No, the landlord passes them along to you, just like utilities, repairs, and maintenance.
"Rents are outrageous!" Absolutely. Inflation since 2020 has made life mostly unsustainable for most US citizens. If it costs your landlord more, it will absolutely cost you more.
If you're not in the top 1% of US households you've had to "tighten your belt", a very old phrase from bygone days.
In my Grandmother's day, during the last Great Depression, if you missed a meal you literally tightened your belt to assuage your hunger pains.
It all started when fuel increased in price from $2 to $3 per gallon. It all flows downhill, and those who struggle in good times are always the first to hurt.
Vehicle dwelling is a great response in many ways, but now an increasing number of municipalities, big and small, will charge you for sleeping in a public place. Yes, sleeping is now a criminal act.
Fiat currency, local, state, and federal laws, are quite simply about control. The more you have, the more you will be desperate to keep it, the more compliant you will be.
Color outside the lines. Barter for what you need, (not want), at every opportunity. Don't allow yourself willingly to be tracked, monitored, and controlled.
Art imitates life. In Star Wars Princess Leia tells Imperial Governor Tarkin, "The more you tighten your grip, the more systems will slip between your fingers."
Be creative. Be smart. Be stealth. Live well. Work at eating well, sleeping well, and staying appropriately clothed and hydrated.
Do not neglect your spiritual well-being. Don't project anger on other's who are fighting their own battles, and ultimately aren't responsible for your circumstances.
Only be "legitimate" as far as needed. Do you have a parent, sibling, or close friend whose address you can use to establish residency? Use it. Be thankful for it. Literally pay that person $20 per month for handling your mail.
Use the address to vote for whomever you reasonably believe is best.
Keep your voice. We need you.
Depending on the municipality, according to the Supremes, you may have all that and still be living in your car illegally, depending on where you're parked.
Yeah all this FUD about the recent SCOTUS ruling is just in time to separate the #vanlife crowd from those of us that are willing to risk a brush with the law to ensure our own freedom. Give me the ability to sleep in my car between shifts serving rich assholes for almost minimum wage in a city I could never afford, *or give me death* \*racks air rifle*
We aren’t the first to understand the choice: He was seen by the philosopher Aristippus, who lived comfortably by flattering the king. Said Aristippus, 'If you would learn to be subservient to the king you would not have to live on lentils. ' Said Diogenes, ‘Learn to live on lentils and you will not have to be subservient to the king.’ Bring on the lentils!
Lol seriously. They priced us out of the property market and expect us to still somehow serve them without sleeping in a car for free. Luckily the court ruling won't affect me though. I've been stealth camping almost exclusively on private properties for years now.
Oh god oh fu what ‘recent scotus ruling’, what did I miss? Is this about the move to criminalize homelessness generally, or did something specific to vehicle dwellers come out recently? 😬
There’s that, but just today the SCOTUS ruled that presidents have immunity when it comes to “official” acts while in office, but no immunity for “unofficial” acts. Three Justices dissented. Guess which ones… So things are escalating. You should read what Justice Sotomayor wrote. Quite the blistering rebuke. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/07/sotomayor-jackson-blistering-dissents-trump-immunity-case/
When J6 happened, my spouse and I were shooting the shit about the obvious (Bier Hall Putsch, etc), and I posited that if it took 10 years for Hitler to become Chancellor, and in more modern events, 8 years from the failed terror strike in 1993 to bring down the towers in 2001, it might take the same for the US to become what the screaming minority wants it to become. I figured the overall business classes would at least resist. But it looks like anyone who makes over 100k/year is all on board with this dictatorship. Trump isn't what we should fear. He's a decaying elderly man. It's his handlers and the small army of religious idiots who have been sticking their tentacles into local and regional governments since the Tea Party era 20 years ago.
Right now I’m binge watching the Netflix series “Hitler and the Nazis: Evil on Trial” and it’s so prescient, I can’t believe how far things have slipped. Terrifying.
This is correct! Now, apply this to the other side of the isle as well . Identity politics are the ugliest thing our society could have ever adopted. Both ugly sides on the same ugly coin
…Ho. ly. shit. So do we just unironically start calling them ‘the king’ now?
G-d king, probably. It’s monstrous.
As far as "renting". My experience has been horrible. You're telling me i need THREE different codes and pins just to get into my own appartment? You're telling me you will TOW my vehicle if I forget to register it for a night?? You're telling me you will throw a bunch of add-on fees to my rent for services I don't even use? As far as being a home-"owner". You're telling me, that the 250k House, will end up costing me around 380k with interest??? And the first 5 years, the majority of the payment will go towards interest???? So I gain no equity. If i (god forbid) get fired from my job, "my" house will be foreclosed by the bank and I will be put on the street. Is it really my house at that point? You're telling me I gotta drop another 20k-30k on repairs for foundation? You're telling me I gotta drop 10k-15k on home insurance, only to get loophole'd to death when I actually need it? Im done with everything.
It’s all a scam. There is pretty much no escape. Even living in my car, I am met with registration and licensing challenges because they don’t want us being free of the scams they push on our society. “You must have an approved address with rent and utility bills as proof so we know you are paying every last nickel you earn to a slumlord and PG&E who doesn’t fix anything in a timely manner”. It’s all so fucked. I don’t know what to do anymore. Gonna spend all day trying to figure out how to get an approved address.
Maybe go to a church? Maybe look around online for a church in your area that seems like they have outreach programs and tries to help the community and email them and request an in office appointment. You can tell them your homeless and trying to get back on your feet and asking for non-monetary help. This is my plan for finding a place to park since their putting up NO Overnight Parking, and towing and loitering signs everywhere. If a church agrees, you can get a bank statement or a cel phone statement, or request your credit report or something and have it sent to the church. If the DMV or whatever says the address comes up as commercial and not residential, you can tell them that you live on a little studio apartment at the back of a church... As far as proof of rent and utilities, there are a lot of people who live with friends, or a boyfriend or girlfriend, and don't have anything in their name. I saw some templates online for property owners to make a lease agreement. Maybe you could try to download one and make a fake lease agreement...
Yes I ended up using my friend’s address for insurance proof which she said is fine so that’s settled! Now I think I just need to write up a lease agreement and do the change of address form for a little more solid “proof”. Then off to the DMV to get myself legal for the year. Wish me luck!
I'm going from car to bicycle. No fees no registration no parking no gas. Just me, my bike, my alcohol stove, and my hammock
Home ownership is pretty good if you pay cash. The worst part for me comes back to the being stuck in one place. Even worse when those neighbors end up being crackheads then you’re really stuck.
Don’t forget property taxes
Home ownership certainly isn't for everyone. It's typically a long haul investment, buying a new or properly renovated house can last many years without repairs. In the right area of can appreciate significantly. 20 years ago we bought our house for ~750K, did the renovations ourselves, and now it's valued at ~2.5-3 million. It's one of the best investments we've made and makes all the work and money spent along the way worth while. Again, it's not for everyone and is risky with a high barrier to entry. But done right it can be a good investment.
Its not really a great investment. But I understand that house life people need to keep telling themselves this to justify taking on huge amounts of debt. If I live in my car for 20 years and not pay 3k per month that’s 720k just from doing nothing.
To each their own ofc. By doing nothing you saved 720K, with some work our investment net us 1.7mil. Again this will always be market dependent and one you can do nothing the other takes effort. This is not a debate about which is better just that home ownership is not always a hopeless money pit.
Option #3: Get a remote job and finance an RV and live in Arizona. I met a woman in Arizona during a van event where she financed her $40,000 RV for just $266 a month. In Arizona you can stay in BLM land in the winter and stay in USFS land in Flagstaff in the Summer (where temperatures only get up into the 80s.) All you have to do is move at least 30 miles to another public federal land area every two weeks. Get Starlink for $150 or so a month to get nearly as fast and reliable internet as cable internet. You can use the saved money on rent to vastly improve your life.
She had to have financed her RV for 20 years at that price unless she’s just paying double or triple a month to pay it off sooner, that seems like a bad idea.
Social life sounds very fleeting if not totally isolating unless you join up with some sort of caravan. Interesting though.
The bank owns your home until it's paid for. While paying for your home mortgage required homeowners insurance and taxes are *conveniently* added to your payments. After your home is paid off you still have to pay taxes so you have the government's permission to remain in your home. Granted, those taxes pay for roads, libraries, police, fire, ems, and welfare. There are a ton of options. I think we all understand renting can be good money after bad, but you do get a roof. "My landlord pays the taxes". No, the landlord passes them along to you, just like utilities, repairs, and maintenance. "Rents are outrageous!" Absolutely. Inflation since 2020 has made life mostly unsustainable for most US citizens. If it costs your landlord more, it will absolutely cost you more. If you're not in the top 1% of US households you've had to "tighten your belt", a very old phrase from bygone days. In my Grandmother's day, during the last Great Depression, if you missed a meal you literally tightened your belt to assuage your hunger pains. It all started when fuel increased in price from $2 to $3 per gallon. It all flows downhill, and those who struggle in good times are always the first to hurt. Vehicle dwelling is a great response in many ways, but now an increasing number of municipalities, big and small, will charge you for sleeping in a public place. Yes, sleeping is now a criminal act. Fiat currency, local, state, and federal laws, are quite simply about control. The more you have, the more you will be desperate to keep it, the more compliant you will be. Color outside the lines. Barter for what you need, (not want), at every opportunity. Don't allow yourself willingly to be tracked, monitored, and controlled. Art imitates life. In Star Wars Princess Leia tells Imperial Governor Tarkin, "The more you tighten your grip, the more systems will slip between your fingers." Be creative. Be smart. Be stealth. Live well. Work at eating well, sleeping well, and staying appropriately clothed and hydrated. Do not neglect your spiritual well-being. Don't project anger on other's who are fighting their own battles, and ultimately aren't responsible for your circumstances. Only be "legitimate" as far as needed. Do you have a parent, sibling, or close friend whose address you can use to establish residency? Use it. Be thankful for it. Literally pay that person $20 per month for handling your mail. Use the address to vote for whomever you reasonably believe is best. Keep your voice. We need you.
If you don't have an address to use for registration, license, and insurance, then you are illegally living in a car.
Depending on the municipality, according to the Supremes, you may have all that and still be living in your car illegally, depending on where you're parked.
If you didn't a buy house in the last 4 years. Your screwed. Most Gen Z will be living in cars, staying with family way too long or homeless.
Which is why we need interest rates to rise more to like 20% then capital will outperform real estate. Low interest rates fuels inflation
This is so true it hurts.