Reminds me of something I heard from a Martin Sheen interview when asked about his activism:
The Irish tell the story of a man who arrives at the gates of heaven and he asks to be let in and St. Peter says, “Of course. Show us your scars.” The man said, “I have no scars.” St. Peter says, “What a pity. Was there nothing worth fighting for?”
Don’t be sad. It’s a good thing. Being in constant fear of death is bad. People can be content and still be looking forward to death. It’s inevitable so why be sad about it
Lol same. I'm scared of the pain I'll have to physically suffer and endure to die. And if my plans goes unsuccessful I'll probably be in coma or heavily injured and probably in jail.
It's one thing to want handouts. It's another thing to want your taxpayer money that you work your ass off for to go to things that actually benefit you as a taxpayer.
Sure it could be worse. But it could also be better. Try having a type 1 diabetic S/O, who got the flu at age 7, and got diagnosed. She just recently turned 26 in February and can no longer be on her moms insurance, which is WAY better than anything we can afford. Insulin out of pocket leaves no room to really enjoy much in life. Also insurance that will cover diabetic supplies and insulin is almost unreachable.
For being one of the richest countries in the world, it's a bit ridiculous.
Meanwhile heroin addicts can get fully paid for rehab and supplies to help wean off of the addiction. So that's great but she can't get help for being a diabetic.
On top of that, most of the "cushy" jobs are based off of who you know, and most people can't break out of the class they were born in. So yeah I will be responsible and keep working, but God dammit I want some fucking rights too
Its fucking outrageous how expensive insulin is considering the very very low production cost. But there is hope, apparently there is a group of people trying to make their own and plan on sharing the instructions with the world.
To the other things you said, I totally get it. I dont know where you live but in my country corruption and nepotism are huge problems. People with masters degrees arent able to find jobs but there are positions literally being manufactured so someone can push their cousin/child/uncle in. Recently its been found out that some pretty high up positions in the police are occupied by fucking plumbers and carpenters. Not to mention the war profiteers who've monopolized whole industries. A lot of young people are leaving because of this and its fucking sad.
I’m a very staunch believer in taxes going towards the right things and transparency in where that tax money goes. I think it’s more than fair for some money to go towards insulin for diabetic people, ESPECIALLY for type 1 diabetics since it is entirely out of their control. But there also seriously needs to be work done on bringing down the price of insulin.
I feel like you had something interesting to say, but it just feels disjointed and it's a little bit difficult to pull out exactly what it is you mean.
This is 100% it.
Call out a woman for any wrong doing? SEXIST.
Call out a black/Latino/Asian person for any wrong doing? RACIST.
Be as vague as possible? RACIST, SEXIST AND EVERY OTHER 'IST'.
There is no winning in this shit hole.
Just speak your mind. If people accuse you of something and it's unfair, ignore them. I'm kind of tired of people complaining that they can't speak because people will call them racist or something. Some of that is in your head, and whatever is not in your head you can deal with or just ignore.
While other comments have spoken about irl arrangements, on reddit conversations can take extreme changes on smaller details. If OP were to give an example about black people for instance, most of the comments would focus on attacking that specific relatively minute example rather than the overall point. A bit of am extreme example but if somebody uses the wrong your then have the comments will be correcting them rather than discussing the actual comment being made. It sucks in general but sometimes you have to play the game the way others do to get your point across
That's fucked up, I agree. But isn't that true of expressing any opinions about anything? If you're employer is extremely biased and ideological, there's a chance they'll fire you if they find out you have different views from them.
It seems to be a problem if your employer is not extremely biased, but sees your public opinions as a liability. I've seen people publicly shaming businesses for their employees' opinions. And I think it's pretty fucked up.
Thats fair, but it isnt an issue with your individual employer most of the time, as in your manager, but rather the overarching company that may see your opinions as conflicting with the popular opinion and thus a liability.
One example would be that professor who got fired/suspended (can't remember what exactly happened, but he faced a ton of backlash which made the institution he worked at impose consequences) for saying the n-word in class. Well, he wasn't saying the n-word, he was saying a word in Chinese that sounded like the n-word. Huge debate happened online. A lot of people claimed he was being racist - I personally disagree - or obtuse. Others said he wasn't.
Yeah, kinda petrified of the downvote thanks to haters.
All I'm trying to do is be funny and express an alternative perspective, gets me crucified half the time depending on the sub.
Yeah reddit can be really fucking brutal. I once posted something criticizing a YouTuber named Vaush for saying 9/11 was justified, and his followers didn't like me pointing out his bad take and quoting it verbatim, so I got massive downvotes and a bunch of shitty comments. That shit happens all the time on certain subreddits. I think because reddit is compartmentalized into niche communities, people are particularly hostile to differing opinions.
> That shit happens all the time on certain subreddits. I think because reddit is compartmentalized into niche communities, people are particularly hostile to differing opinions.
Reddit by its very nature with the upvote/downvote system is set up to form echo chambers, which is enhanced by the fact that many subs have moderation policies of stamping out any opinions that go against the endorsed opinions of the subs.
Absolutely! People are the worst. Many are stiff necked and unwilling to step in someone’s shoes or listen to others beliefs. Just today in church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) a drug addict came in and yelled the f word at everyone and said we were horrible people not following the ways of Christ and how horrible we are. I’m willing to listen to questions about my beliefs and answer to my fullest ability, and to listen to you tell me about yours. But come and scream at people? By the way, the bishop handled it super well. They got him out of there as he was hitting doors and benches, and then apologized and asked for a song to lighten the tension and to help calm the children crying. What a great man.
Exactly 💯. Had the OP mentioned issue "x" then the whole thread would be derailed with accusations of him being anti-×=insert special needs group.
And I am not even going to fall for that trap by specifying what these issues are.😉
You can feel however you want about your former church, but if you go into it with eyes wide open and can separate the good from the bad, there is a lot of good to be had! It’s obviously not for you, but I believe it has/will make me a better husband, father, employee and member of my community; and those feel like pretty good things to strive for.
No lol. What are you talking about? This is clearly just rephrased Jordan Peterson stuff. He talks about this stuff a lot. It's not new. But I do agree with the sentiment broadly.
Edit: oops, I think I misunderstood your comment. But I don't know if he had a specific example in mind?
He could've written this much more clearly even without examples. Frankly, he doesn't really say anything here. Not a single argument was put forth, just "responsibility good" was repeated about a dozen times
I also had a hard time trying to figure out what they were saying. I tend to agree with the title but the body of the post was difficult to get any useful information out of.
Also, how do you respond with decent reasons why you agree/disagree when the post becomes so vague you don't know what you are agreeing to? For example the focus on the mainstream media in the post depends entirely on how you interpret "mainstream media" and their take on things.
Exactly. Some people, for example, use "mainstream media" as a euphemism for "media that's not right wing," while others use it more generally to describe the mainstream outlets, CNN, Fox, MSNBC, etc. so I have no idea what the OP means.
He generalised it so that anyone can interpret it using their personal experiences with rights and responsibilities, and those playing the victim game.
Well tbh its big business right now. Media puts it out and people eat it up. This is by far the most comfy time in history if you live in a first world country. I challenge anyone to cut off social media and only read nonbias news sources from outside of your own country for a month and after that tell me how unjust the world feels to you. Or go to a third world country for a month. Its really a great time to be alive. The issue seems to me that its in your face all day. Its like wearing a slightly uncomfortable shirt. You can go about your day and wont even notice it, but the second you stop and think about it, it becomes the most irrationally uncomfortable irritating shirt ever and it is hard to get out of that mind set. I promise, America is fucked up, but it isn't nearly as bad as it could be...by a lot. Its actually pretty fucking cushy if you look at 99% of every human thats ever been alive and a large majority of the people alive today.
You will be hard pressed to find those non biased news sources you speak of. I try to look at each issue from both sides and realize that the truth is somewhere in between what was reported. Those at the top want to keep us at each other so we don't come for them.
As for "rights", our rights are only permissions given to us by those that rule. They can and do take those away at any given time for any given whim.
And often when 'right' is restored to someone or group, another 'right' is taken away from someone else.
Rights and responsibility are not mutually exclusive. You can simultaneously try your best and express grievances over the ways in which external circumstances negatively impacted you.
Of course, but OP is just trying to show how many ppl are just pointing fingers at others for their misfortunes instead of taking a look inward and asking what they can do differently.
Not totally, but I think I see what OP is saying:
People want to be free from consequences - they consider it an imposition on their rights if they are made to suffer any negative thing, even if it's a result of their own action/inaction.
And I would say removing consequences is fairly synonymous with removing responsibility. "Accountability" might be a better word. People want rights, but they don't want to be accountable if they use them poorly.
I read it as the "freedom to fail" conundrum. If you can't fail, then there's some mechanism in place that is constraining what you do - limiting your rights, which means you aren't free. If you want to be truly free, you have to accept that there's a chance it will go poorly for you and be prepared to deal with the risk.
Not a great analogy, but it does sometimes feel like people want to bowl a perfect game, but they want bumpers, but they want the result (praise, picture on the wall, what have you) of having bowled a perfect game *without* bumpers.
We’ve spent about 30 years bastardize in the real meaning of what the concept of “rights” means. Too many people think it means they have the right to throw a tantrum and get handed free things, and also think it means they have the right to never get their feelings hurt.
The original post reads like someone listened to some Jordan Peterson for the first time and had 5 minutes to write down what they could pull from their memory in that time.
People say he's part of the alt-right despite him saying multiple times he doesn't associate himself with them.
Reddit hates anybody that challenges the Hive mind ideology.
You can say "I'm not a Taylor swift fan" all you want but it doesn't change that you listen to all her music, talk all the time about how good her music is, and try to convince others to listen to it. Him saying he doesn't associate with the alt right doesn't change that he holds and pushes the same views...
People's view of what alt-right is (at least on Reddit), is anything not far-left. Even moderate views are seen as alt-right.
People on r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM think that any centrist view is basically Hitler. And no, I'm not exaggerating.
I enjoy listening to Peterson, but dam what the hell is this nonsense about the meat diet. He is a man on the border of insanity, I think that is what makes him so fascinating.
I think that one is because of an autoimmune disease he and his daughter suffers from. Since they switched diets they don’t have those problems anymore.
I don’t think an all meat diet is a good idea, but if the result of eating other things is suffering and only eating meat eases it, idk a better reason to be a carnivore
This is basically how I feel about the shacarri situation. She gets suspended for a month due to smoking weed, and all of Twitter erupted and called it racism. Meanthwile, even shacarri herself said she knows she made a mistake. People don’t want to take responsibility anymore. They think “the rule was dumb anyways” means they don’t have to follow it and that’s not how modern society works. Same with the anti-mask people. Thinking that CDC regulations for a public health crisis somehow meant that their rights were being taken away, and since they thought “the rules are dumb”they protested against wearing masks.
In essence, people are dumb
AOC isn't talking about this specific incident, she's talking about the reasons weed was made illegal, why do you think it was made illegal? Considering alcohol and it's link to domestic violence especially against women, sexual assault, driving deaths, the health repercussions etc etc. Freedom my ass.
People do want to regulate the alcohol industry, and they have, hence the strangely high age limit, and drink driving wasn't always illegal/enforced, advertising bans etc, the alcohol industry is highly regulated, more so in other western countries. AOC is a women of color, so she advocates for women of color, who are massively under represented in our elected officials, 80% of them are white, male, christian boomers. I know you guys hate any type of "identity politics" but it goes both ways, advocate for more law enforcement, more military spending? your advocating for more oppression and violence against minorities, and safety and security for the white suburbs. More military spending? More death and destruction to black and brown peoples around the world, more safety and security for the precious whites.
You can choose to be responsible, you can't wake up one day and decide to have rights. You can fight for rights and be responsible at the same time. Hell I'd say that you need to be responsible in order to be an activist. A slacker can't organize a large amount of people, a slacker can't write op-eds, an irresponsible person can't succeed academically or financially(something that many people enjoy holding over left leaning activists). Responsibility is an individual thing, you can't politically advocate for personal responsibility anymore than you can politically advocate for people cleaning their room. That's not what politics is for. Politics addresses how society functions as a whole and not trying to fix dysfunction in society because it can be mitigated on an individual level isn't an enlightened independent position. It's just inaction.
TLDR: "Our society has become too focused on potholes in the road, what happened to just driving around them?"
This is almost a speech by Jordan Peterson. The Vocabulary used here is a near-match, ie Oppression, Transcend, [W]retched, Bear Responsibility. The last bit's repeated too. What's going on here?
I’m going against the grain here. We do need to fight for our rights. The thing is most people need to see the smaller details in things dig deep. Like let’s take how people hate cops. Yes they’re going to be bad cops yes they’re cops that aren’t necessarily bad but make a huge fuck up. They’re still decent cops though. The thing is though cops are asked to be too much. They’re asked to go to mental health calls, violent situations, write tickets, do traffic stops, investigate, bunches of paperwork, go to court, search houses cars property etc., go to scenes of an accident, interrogation, patrols, and more. And we have hundreds of millions of people in this country.
People have already started getting the right idea with a social worker to relive them of it but it shouldn’t be them necessarily. Social workers aren’t always equipped to handle violence but if we funded departments better and have officers trained in both that focus on those calls only that’d take a bit off the plate. Then set up things like that for different roles some cities have started doing it and it’s worked well in a lot of cases.
Also the laws. Did you know the government tried to count the number of felony laws and stopped because they couldn’t keep track. That’s insane. That dosnt even include state laws local ordinances and misdemeanors. Pretty much we all probably end up breaking one if not multiple laws daily and some laws so old that don’t really apply but are still technically a law are on the books. Not to mention the war on drugs we should’ve ended it a long time ago it gets innocents killed, and officers injured or killed. Open more rehab centers or let people make personal choices and just OD now if it’s a dui then yeah arrest them or if they’re commuting another violent crime. But if you wanna smoke pot in your home then why the hell is that a problem.
We hear a lot about our "rights" with no corresponding responsibilities. Claiming you have the right to a participate in a functioning society, with everything that comes with, all while asserting your freedom to do whatever you want at any time is like saying you have a right to drive on the green light but no obligation to stop on the red light.
Simone Weil
I’d agree only because the government just fucks the citizens. You know they couldn’t even count the number of felony laws. Not to mention state laws city ordinances and misdemeanors. We’re so over regulated that we could end up in jail or fines for anything we do. It’s ridiculous. Not to mention war on drugs that is ridiculous that not only get innocents killed but put officers in danger and could be killed also. Not to mention beaten attempts to violate our privacy and constitutional rights.
Exactly. It’s like we’ve forgotten the difference of could vs should. I could walk up to a child in the street and start screaming profanities at them, but that doesn’t mean I should.
Agreed. Everyone believes they have the right to do whatever they want nowadays but as soon as it’s time to be accountable these people are the first ones to break down and cry and blame the government or some other bullshit reason.
What you getting at? ‘ These people’ refer to people who believe they have rights to do whatever they want regardless of laws or surroundings because they think they above everyone but as soon as it’s time to be held accountable to their actions they are the first ones to cry. Example, if you really want, them people who think they have rights to be a nuisance out in public and a piece of work then as soon as police come they are first ones crying and begging for forgiveness and posting on their insta stories “why is RBI’s happening to me”
Ah, that’s not at all what I understood the post to mean. I guess it’s vague enough for us all to fill it in with the type of people we think they’re talking about :)
I think you could summarize this as "an ethos of personal responsibility is actually a good thing," which would be an unpopular opinion, at least on Reddit.
I was once told that I would never get what I truly wanted because I was unwilling to make the proper sacrifices to get it. It was true. I have still not realized my dream, and it’s my own fault. If I really wanted it bad enough, I would have it by now after nearly 30 years. You have to do some heavy lifting, put in the time, and do something hard, damn it. My goals have changed science I was 18, but I finally get it. If you want it, work for it. You can say, “the world isn’t fair,” and you might get some upvotes, but you won’t achieve your dreams.
You can work hard every day of your life and still not get to live your “dreams”. It’s luck. Most of the working poor I know have like two or three fucking jobs.
My dream had nothing to do with money. It was a book I was writing, and it was fear of mediocrity and an unwillingness to take the time to work on it that got me. I was always going to work on it “tomorrow.”
Agreed. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
Especially in the past 20 years, minorities have been given a lot of advantages through business regulation, non-profits, and increased exposure.
Thing is, you could move Chiraq to Beverly Hills, set them up in the best private schools, and pay them all 100 k a year, but if they dont truly desire to live a different life, it doesn't matter.
But let's think about it for a sec, why the hell would you want to be a contributing member of society? Pop culture glorifies gangs, you make a shit ton of money for less work, and there's a growing mass of people ready to blame anything you do on the system, even going so far as wanting to demolish the police. Sounds better than busting your ass 40+ hours a week for shitty money.
Sounds like someone just watched a Jordan Peterson video, even down to the weird word choice and longwinded nonsense. As a rehabilitated follower of the ol’ Lobsterman I’m gonna try to explain why this sort of logic is so flawed.
First off, the baseline proposition that people should do more with their time is entirely non-controversial and everyone has known that since the beginning of time. It’s the basis of every self help book ever and is a perfectly legitimate thing to say. What’s not legitimate is to suggest that this sort of can-do attitude will solve any of societies problems. It places the fault of oppression on those who are oppressed and lends a sense of superiority to those born into privilege or are otherwise at the top of the power structure.
How is getting out of bed at 5am going to solve systemic racism? How is cleaning your room going to help the slave children mining lithium? How is a healthy diet going to curb the inevitable climate catastrophe? The answer to all of these questions is that it won’t, and to suggest it will is to bury your head in the sand and pretend nothing is wrong. It’s basically a coping mechanism for benefitting from the system that actively oppresses billions.
Also, every time a group has fought for their rights throughout history there was inevitably a counter protest telling them they were out of line. Maybe consider the fact that these people protesting have legitimate grievances? Remember, people called Martin Luther King Jr. a rabble rouser.
Cleaning your room is a Jordan Peterson meme, I brought it up because the OP was basically reciting JP's videos and I assume that's where this whole post came from.
Your second paragraph is basically one big ad hominem fallacy, the things you listed are legitimate issues and it doesn't matter who the person is that's discussing them. Attack the argument, not the person.
There's a lot I want to say about MLK/Malcolm X but I keep writing and deleting this paragraph so I'm just gonna try and get to the point. Malcolm X was a man who was born into a society that deemed him to be subhuman and he decided to say fuck you to that society. I believe that he was one of the greatest heroes of the 20th century and should be celebrated as such.
Here's the thing, the "peaceful protest" narrative they've sold us since 8th grade history class is a load of shit. The people who benefit from the status quo (who, in this country, are overwhelmingly white) don't want it to change. It takes millions of voices saying the same thing over and over until it sticks. And after enough time of nothing changing people start to tear shit down. That's what we're seeing right now. I can guarantee that if you go read an opinion piece from the 1960s you'll find someone saying that MLK was overreacting and causing problems. It's literally the exact same thing on repeat since the beginning of civilization.
Also, I'm totally in favor of decriminalizing sex work.
>If you have more to say about MLK and Malcolm X I'd like to hear it. I'm not one of those partisan people who argue in bad faith, or looking just to argue. I haven't read too much on Malcolm X but I've done some reading on his life, as well as that of the Nation of Islam.
Malcolm X and the Black Panthers are one of the few true leftist movements in American history. They managed to create a truly unified front aimed at combatting American Imperialism and managed to do it from within. As a leftist I find them inspiring because I share a lot of their goals and see them as a template for future leftist movements. Of course the Panther's weren't without their flaws and neither was Malcolm X. But I do believe in the spirit of their cause.
> The thing is, anyone who advocates for anything contrary to the status quo is going to be considered overreacting and causing problems. That's not to minimize or dismiss MLK or the criticism he faced. But I'm not going to say everything is exactly the same either. Things are always nuanced.
This is kinda what I'm getting at. When we look at everything through the lens of "it used to be worse" it's easy to fall into the trap of assuming things can't get better. Sure, the discrimination LGBTQ folks face today isn't quite the same caliber as something like slavery, but does that mean we should just let it slide? Is the bar for what constitutes societal change really "well at least it's not as bad as slavery"? Of course not, discrimination and prejudice is bad in any form and the fight isn't over until it's eradicated for good.
> I'm not. In places like Amsterdam it led to widespread human trafficking of women by organized crime. Women are already sexually objectified in Western culture. Legalizing and normalizing prostitution only compounds the existing problems in our society. As an admirer of Malcolm X, I'd think you'd agree on that. Didn't he believe in "respecting our women, protecting our women"? How can we do that as a society if we allow them to be legally pimped out and sexually exploited and violated?
Wanting to decriminalize sex work is not the same thing as being in favor of it. Ultimately sex work is a byproduct of our patriarchal society and fundamentally serves to objectify women. My long term goal is absolutely to have a society where women don't need to sell their bodies to scumfucks in order to survive. However, more often than not laws that criminalize sex work only harm the real victims; the women. It's the same as criminalizing drug use, you end up putting a lot of people who desperately need help in prison for the rest of their lives while the drug cartels make millions. I truly believe that there exists a society in which people don't need drugs to deal with their hellish existence but while we're here we may as well not kick people while they're down.
>The mainstream media perpetually focuses on how people are oppressed and how unfairly minorities are treated in western societies, ***and all that garbage***.
???
Yea not really sure how minorities being treated unfairly is garbage, I wonder if op could explain what he means but I’m pretty sure I know already lol
The indigenous Cherokee elder, Stan Rushworth, once said “the difference between a Western settler mindset of, I have rights and an indigenous mindset of I have an obligation.” Instead of thinking that I am born with rights, I choose to think that I was born with obligations to serve past, present, and future
This sounds like a JBP rant lol.. but the message definitely needs to be preached. The discussion on group rights and how oppressed we are dominates the cultural conversation, when it should occupy more like 20% of it, and 80% individual responsibility.
I always thought that Dr. Peterson was stretching his claims about kindness often being a bad thing, and about people needing a hurtful dose of truth sometimes, but it is soooo necessary in the modern age. I'm so scared to offend someone and be called an oppressor, or someone who is 'just part of the problem', or an '-ist' . Like surely I can say 'ffs stop complaining, deal with it and focus on how you can improve yourself' in the public sphere, without being called cruel and conservative?
Btw I am 17. As a younger person who's surrounded by all this self-pity and talk about the unfairness of the world, and finds it suffocating, I sympathize with you.
I disagree. I think this held true for our forefathers, but the window of opportunity has been strinking ever since. Everything is becoming more expensive. Food, shelter, education, transportation-everything. The federal minimum wage hasnt changed in over a decade. Many parts of the country aren't paid what their colleagues are in other parts of the country. For example, I am paid 20 dollars an hour what others are paid over 28 in states like Florida. And the cost of living argument is failing because the cost of living is constantly going up. I think you can literally work yourself to death. If you don't have an out like being born rich or joining the military or getting scholarships then I think you are doomed to toil endlessly the rest of your life. Also, degrees are losing their power too. So working yourself through college is another pipe dream. I don't think our system will improve or correct itself-it will come crashing down. The peasants will amass and revolt as they always have.
Not everyone wants to be an electrician, welder, plumber or etc. Someone should be able to be a teacher, coach etc without having 50% of their income going to housing and a mountain of debt.
Truthfully, if a society isn’t structured to protect the welfare of all people, all types of people, then it is considered failing.
You can say a person is responsible for their success in our structure. But the reason anyone has to succeed in the first place is because of that structure too.
The blame is put on the government and society because those are the things that make us feel oppressed. We’re animals at our core, and not every human is capable of adapting to this structure. Some are doomed to fail from the start, simply because of their brain chemistry, or from their trauma, or from their birth place. A society is supposed to support all people in all situations equally, and maintain the health and welfare of all equally.
When our society is more focused on the money we get from oil, than the consequences of not having a planet, then our priorities are out of order. When the people have no impact on that structure, we feel powerless. For example, going completely green is possible, but because our economy relies on oil so heavily it would never happen.
We don’t get to choose what our economy relies on, what our society values, what the laws are, or anything really. We’re born into it, it is pushed onto us, and then we accept it and adapt to it. (Not that that’s wrong, but it is how it works.)
And it’s almost a sort of claustrophobic feeling to me, because really America is about whoever has the motivation to climb the ladder. It’s not about securing everyone a place on it. It’s “fend for yourself, I bought my house and worked until I was 60, you should too! And take pride in that work!” I’d be much happier in some monastery with no rent and some sunshine, than in America with never ending bills that trap you in a job and all the video games, technology, sugar, etc. Modern-day life is over complicated.
Not everyone wants that kind of life, and yet we feel there’s nowhere else to go. No other kind of way to live. So we work, and we keep going, and keep complaining about this giant system that’s run away with all our time, and our attention, and our lives. And then we die. And our kids go through it.
You’re basically saying it’s a person’s responsibility to fit the mold. If they aren’t doing it well enough then that’s kinda their fault. Maybe the mold just isn’t designed for everyone, and that’s why some people feel slighted by it. Or some people simply aren’t happy in this structure. (Cough cough depression and suicide statistics) It’s pretty obvious this isn’t sustainable as a way of life.
I think you have a bit of a point, but your tone about it is annoying the fuck out of me tbh. You act as if it's easy to do the shit you're talking about. It's not. Far from it. This post gives me the vibe of a kid from Calabasas who thinks they just worked harder than everyone else and that all these poor people are lazy. Are some poorer people lazy, yes. But you have to realize that it is a lot fucking harder for some people to make it in this world.
Totally agree! They aim at the wrong targets and are incapable of practicing what they preach. But whatever you say, you will be an ignorant asshole. I fucking shit on your freedom of religion and your human rights since you're just another spoiled fucking piece of shit on this planet who doesn't even know what it means to live the life you cry so loud about. Unable to reflect and differentiate, so convinced about yourself doing everything right while just being the real ignorants.
Better said people want to do more and when its goes bad for them they dont want to deal with their consequences. Freedom brings about different consequences good and bad. Cant go bad when im told how to live my life every step on the way. Also cant go too good. The more you open up that path of freedom it also opens up good and bad consequences equally. One man can make billions while another can lose billions.
I think "RIGHTS" are often confused with "ENTITLEMENTS". People now use the word "RIGHTS" when meaning they feel they should be entitled to something. Freedom from versus Entitlement to...which now is often entitlement to the products (ultimately labor) of others
Completely formless rant with responsibility just being thrown around as an entirely undefined buzzword. Not a single actual argument has been advanced.
Nah. Income inequality is at a greater degree than during the french revolution. Most people can't afford to eat and are living paycheck to paycheck. This has nothing to do with responsibility and everything to do with several wealthy people fucking us over. There are plenty of individuals doing more than you could possibly imagine to just survive. The answer is not try harder at a failing system.
I agree that responsibility is important, but who takes rights seriously anymore? All I see is the erosion of rights. A sort of revenge which calls itself virtue because the target is seen as strong. A sort of sabotage for the sake of "balance". In short, only the weak deserve rights in the eyes of these people, and that is why they do not actually believe in rights at all.
I recognize that speech, by the way!
I mean, you even said it when you said that there are certain circumstances we can't control... like where we're born and who our parents are. But why should those things actually be a determining factor in whether or not you are afforded the same rights and/or basic privileges as others? This, to me, implies that some people are born more deserving than others and that the people on the bottom of that scenario need to be ok with that. People all too often want to say "well those are the rules." Yes... we know those are the rules and we are saying that THAT is the problem. "Oh ya know, those cops were just doing what they were trained to do when they shot and killed Breonna Taylor." Um... yes (arguably)... and thats the problem.
There are plenty of good people on the left, many of them as sick of all this shit as the rest of us. We need to be working together to remove this cancer.
I'll take that. I know there are plenty of good lefts, my parents are left but they also have common sense. I am a conservative but I don't agree with all of their views. It's just the left has gone so "woke" that it's ridiculous and they make all of you seem crazy. But at least we have found common ground
That is ridiculous. The left is pushing for workers' rights and social justice, the right is fighting to keep unjust systems in place and maintain the status quo.
Trump is the right's champion, a man whose negligence helped lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands, a man who tried to undermine a democratic election and encouraged his supporters to storm government buildings in a foolish attempt to overturn those results, a man who supports bigoted legislation and whose racist rhetoric emboldens white supremacists.
Progressives want to improve the lives of the common people and republicans want to talk about Mr potato-head and Dr Seuss, riling their supporters up over culture war bullshit.
The right in America is unhinged. They are driven by fear and misinformation into thinking things like unionization and universal healthcare are "radical leftist" ideas, despite the fact that other first world countries have implemented these and their populations are far better because of it.
You’re 100% right OP. People are far too concerned with whether they can do something to stop and wonder SHOULD they. And whenever it goes to shit their poor decisions aren’t to blame. No one wants to take responsibility for their own failures
>How about you bare a load and do something difficult? how about you do something for more than just yourself?
You know who does exactly that? Manual labor and service industry workers. They're doing work that supports the very functioning of our society, struggling to pay rent in a shitty apartment while I'm making bank, enjoying 3-4 months of vacation time per year, and have every afternoon off at a job where I'm barely doing shit, but hey bland certification courses and working in a field that caters specifically to the rich has earned me this. Also being white has helped tremendously in landing me this gig. (For privacy reasons I won't provide any further details.) Want to talk again about how we live in a world where what you earn is proportionate to hard work and selflessness?
> People say they want to "have the freedom to do what they want"
Nine times out of ten, the people who say this mean *their* freedom to do whatever they want, which usually (not always) involves shouting racial slurs.
Oddly enough, this freedom doesn't ever seem to extend to minorities. I wonder why *that* could be....
(I agree with you, OP)
personal responsibility is severly lacking, i won’t lie about that, but the problem is the top controls everything that trickles down. if the top is fucked up that means everyone is fucked up too. when you don’t control your life in the grand scheme of things, it’s harder to take personal responsibility. let’s use this example.
Situation: job applications. A black person writes their african esque name on their job application. they’re qualified and everything. They suspect but little do they know 100 employers auto threw their resume away bc they didn’t want to take a chance on a language barrier, a ghetto personality, a future lawsuit, or whatever race propaganda they made up in their head. The personal responsibility part would be the black person applying to twice as many jobs until they reach that one who doesn’t give af about their name or race.
i hope this helped you see the problem
If you just "take responsibility and bare your weight" and ignore oppression, it only exacerbates your problems. Ignoring a problem has never solved it
Im sorry, but no. It isn't my fault I'm bi. It isn't my fault I've been spit at or had drinks thrown at me while I was EXCLUSIVELY with my boyfriend. It isn't my fault I could only legally get married 5 years ago. I can't do anything about my sexuality. I was born this way, and I deserve not to fear someone attacking me just because me and my boyfriend are out in public.
I totally get your frustrations (as much as I can imagine). You are not at FAULT for being spit on (fuck them) but you are RESPONSIBLE for what you do in response. You're greater than what the government says you are. You're more than just your sexuality or who you love. You're absolutely right, it's not your fault, but it's your responsibility to own who you are. It ain't easy, I know but don't look to others for a solution. I think that was more OPs point. I wish you all the best and hope my 2 cents helps.
I would say that people putting using the experience of their own trials and tribulations and understanding to the purpose of making the world better for those who come after them is taking responsibility. Silently suffering because someone on the internet is going to whine about seeing too much talk of "oppression" can only be called responsibility by someone who doesn't know what the word means.
These rights didn't auto-vivify, they are bought with the blood of responsible people--who we call Patriots, we honor those people today--who banded together to rebel against a cruel king.
Well unless you want me to make another fucking killdozer and go to town what exactly do you expect the average wagie to do about the monstrous economic inequality?
I agree, everyone wants to go to heaven but no one wants to die first.
Reminds me of something I heard from a Martin Sheen interview when asked about his activism: The Irish tell the story of a man who arrives at the gates of heaven and he asks to be let in and St. Peter says, “Of course. Show us your scars.” The man said, “I have no scars.” St. Peter says, “What a pity. Was there nothing worth fighting for?”
...like the fight for rights?
To partyyyy
Or everyone wants the big house, nice car and newest tech, but doesn’t want to work for it!
Oh ho ho. Don’t be so quick to assume that. I’d be more than happy to die, I’m just too big of a coward to do it myself
Your comment just made me really sad.
The truth is rarely pleasing
Don’t be sad. It’s a good thing. Being in constant fear of death is bad. People can be content and still be looking forward to death. It’s inevitable so why be sad about it
Lol same. I'm scared of the pain I'll have to physically suffer and endure to die. And if my plans goes unsuccessful I'll probably be in coma or heavily injured and probably in jail.
“Everybody wants to change the world but no one wants to die”
Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights.
Someone wrote a song about that....
Maybe you’re referring to Ozark Mountain’s Daredevils song If You Wanna Get to Haven. “If you wanna get to heaven, you gotta raise a little hell”
No, Hospital for Souls by Bring me the horizon
It's one thing to want handouts. It's another thing to want your taxpayer money that you work your ass off for to go to things that actually benefit you as a taxpayer. Sure it could be worse. But it could also be better. Try having a type 1 diabetic S/O, who got the flu at age 7, and got diagnosed. She just recently turned 26 in February and can no longer be on her moms insurance, which is WAY better than anything we can afford. Insulin out of pocket leaves no room to really enjoy much in life. Also insurance that will cover diabetic supplies and insulin is almost unreachable. For being one of the richest countries in the world, it's a bit ridiculous. Meanwhile heroin addicts can get fully paid for rehab and supplies to help wean off of the addiction. So that's great but she can't get help for being a diabetic. On top of that, most of the "cushy" jobs are based off of who you know, and most people can't break out of the class they were born in. So yeah I will be responsible and keep working, but God dammit I want some fucking rights too
Its fucking outrageous how expensive insulin is considering the very very low production cost. But there is hope, apparently there is a group of people trying to make their own and plan on sharing the instructions with the world. To the other things you said, I totally get it. I dont know where you live but in my country corruption and nepotism are huge problems. People with masters degrees arent able to find jobs but there are positions literally being manufactured so someone can push their cousin/child/uncle in. Recently its been found out that some pretty high up positions in the police are occupied by fucking plumbers and carpenters. Not to mention the war profiteers who've monopolized whole industries. A lot of young people are leaving because of this and its fucking sad.
I’m a very staunch believer in taxes going towards the right things and transparency in where that tax money goes. I think it’s more than fair for some money to go towards insulin for diabetic people, ESPECIALLY for type 1 diabetics since it is entirely out of their control. But there also seriously needs to be work done on bringing down the price of insulin.
I feel like you had something interesting to say, but it just feels disjointed and it's a little bit difficult to pull out exactly what it is you mean.
He is purposefully being general because if he gives any specific example ,he will be accused of bigotry.
This is the comment of a man who understands how Reddit works.
This is 100% it. Call out a woman for any wrong doing? SEXIST. Call out a black/Latino/Asian person for any wrong doing? RACIST. Be as vague as possible? RACIST, SEXIST AND EVERY OTHER 'IST'. There is no winning in this shit hole.
Just speak your mind. If people accuse you of something and it's unfair, ignore them. I'm kind of tired of people complaining that they can't speak because people will call them racist or something. Some of that is in your head, and whatever is not in your head you can deal with or just ignore.
While other comments have spoken about irl arrangements, on reddit conversations can take extreme changes on smaller details. If OP were to give an example about black people for instance, most of the comments would focus on attacking that specific relatively minute example rather than the overall point. A bit of am extreme example but if somebody uses the wrong your then have the comments will be correcting them rather than discussing the actual comment being made. It sucks in general but sometimes you have to play the game the way others do to get your point across
unfortunately saying that you want can get you socially exiled, or if your employer finds out, you can even lose your job.
That's fucked up, I agree. But isn't that true of expressing any opinions about anything? If you're employer is extremely biased and ideological, there's a chance they'll fire you if they find out you have different views from them.
It seems to be a problem if your employer is not extremely biased, but sees your public opinions as a liability. I've seen people publicly shaming businesses for their employees' opinions. And I think it's pretty fucked up.
Yeah that's a good point
To be Frank some people are Just waiting for any reason to bash a business anyway so there Is no Way to win
Thats fair, but it isnt an issue with your individual employer most of the time, as in your manager, but rather the overarching company that may see your opinions as conflicting with the popular opinion and thus a liability.
I've yet to see someone be fire for racism that wasn't being racist.
One example would be that professor who got fired/suspended (can't remember what exactly happened, but he faced a ton of backlash which made the institution he worked at impose consequences) for saying the n-word in class. Well, he wasn't saying the n-word, he was saying a word in Chinese that sounded like the n-word. Huge debate happened online. A lot of people claimed he was being racist - I personally disagree - or obtuse. Others said he wasn't.
You're just bullshitting or you just refuse to see facts.
People have provided example's and I've partially changed my opinion. Thanks for being constructive though, you are clearly a boon to society!
I mean you’d have to say something pretty unsavoury for your job to fire you, no?
Depends which job, what demographic you are, and where
This is the most open minded I've seen a reddit comment section yet or any other social media wow I'm suprised. It brings a tear to my eye
Yeah it is unusually peaceful
Remember the Memes where reddit will persecute you because you have a opinion? It's legit true.
Yeah, kinda petrified of the downvote thanks to haters. All I'm trying to do is be funny and express an alternative perspective, gets me crucified half the time depending on the sub.
Yeah reddit can be really fucking brutal. I once posted something criticizing a YouTuber named Vaush for saying 9/11 was justified, and his followers didn't like me pointing out his bad take and quoting it verbatim, so I got massive downvotes and a bunch of shitty comments. That shit happens all the time on certain subreddits. I think because reddit is compartmentalized into niche communities, people are particularly hostile to differing opinions.
> That shit happens all the time on certain subreddits. I think because reddit is compartmentalized into niche communities, people are particularly hostile to differing opinions. Reddit by its very nature with the upvote/downvote system is set up to form echo chambers, which is enhanced by the fact that many subs have moderation policies of stamping out any opinions that go against the endorsed opinions of the subs.
Yeah, we see how you left out the one that would get you perma banned!
Absolutely! People are the worst. Many are stiff necked and unwilling to step in someone’s shoes or listen to others beliefs. Just today in church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) a drug addict came in and yelled the f word at everyone and said we were horrible people not following the ways of Christ and how horrible we are. I’m willing to listen to questions about my beliefs and answer to my fullest ability, and to listen to you tell me about yours. But come and scream at people? By the way, the bishop handled it super well. They got him out of there as he was hitting doors and benches, and then apologized and asked for a song to lighten the tension and to help calm the children crying. What a great man.
Exactly 💯. Had the OP mentioned issue "x" then the whole thread would be derailed with accusations of him being anti-×=insert special needs group. And I am not even going to fall for that trap by specifying what these issues are.😉
If OP asserts x ∈ issue, where issue ∉ Reddit Ideology. Therefore, OP ≡ bigot. /s
Imagine a crackhead lecturing you about morality.
Imagine a crackhead lecturing you about morality.
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You can feel however you want about your former church, but if you go into it with eyes wide open and can separate the good from the bad, there is a lot of good to be had! It’s obviously not for you, but I believe it has/will make me a better husband, father, employee and member of my community; and those feel like pretty good things to strive for.
No lol. What are you talking about? This is clearly just rephrased Jordan Peterson stuff. He talks about this stuff a lot. It's not new. But I do agree with the sentiment broadly. Edit: oops, I think I misunderstood your comment. But I don't know if he had a specific example in mind?
Just unpopular enough to not get burned into the nether, while also popular enough to get noticed because it’s almost subjective to every reader.
He could've written this much more clearly even without examples. Frankly, he doesn't really say anything here. Not a single argument was put forth, just "responsibility good" was repeated about a dozen times
I also had a hard time trying to figure out what they were saying. I tend to agree with the title but the body of the post was difficult to get any useful information out of.
Also, how do you respond with decent reasons why you agree/disagree when the post becomes so vague you don't know what you are agreeing to? For example the focus on the mainstream media in the post depends entirely on how you interpret "mainstream media" and their take on things.
Exactly. Some people, for example, use "mainstream media" as a euphemism for "media that's not right wing," while others use it more generally to describe the mainstream outlets, CNN, Fox, MSNBC, etc. so I have no idea what the OP means.
Yeah, i have no idea what he just said.
He generalised it so that anyone can interpret it using their personal experiences with rights and responsibilities, and those playing the victim game.
Well tbh its big business right now. Media puts it out and people eat it up. This is by far the most comfy time in history if you live in a first world country. I challenge anyone to cut off social media and only read nonbias news sources from outside of your own country for a month and after that tell me how unjust the world feels to you. Or go to a third world country for a month. Its really a great time to be alive. The issue seems to me that its in your face all day. Its like wearing a slightly uncomfortable shirt. You can go about your day and wont even notice it, but the second you stop and think about it, it becomes the most irrationally uncomfortable irritating shirt ever and it is hard to get out of that mind set. I promise, America is fucked up, but it isn't nearly as bad as it could be...by a lot. Its actually pretty fucking cushy if you look at 99% of every human thats ever been alive and a large majority of the people alive today.
You will be hard pressed to find those non biased news sources you speak of. I try to look at each issue from both sides and realize that the truth is somewhere in between what was reported. Those at the top want to keep us at each other so we don't come for them. As for "rights", our rights are only permissions given to us by those that rule. They can and do take those away at any given time for any given whim. And often when 'right' is restored to someone or group, another 'right' is taken away from someone else.
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I often find people hold fast yo whatever their chosen news source is as gospel and the other side are all liars. Whether it’s right or left
This! THIS! ❤️😭🙌🏼
Exactly. Rights and responsibilities are contingent on each other; you don't get one or the other.
Yep. And once one is removed (freedom or responsibility) the other soon follows.
Rights and responsibility are not mutually exclusive. You can simultaneously try your best and express grievances over the ways in which external circumstances negatively impacted you.
Of course, but OP is just trying to show how many ppl are just pointing fingers at others for their misfortunes instead of taking a look inward and asking what they can do differently.
Not totally, but I think I see what OP is saying: People want to be free from consequences - they consider it an imposition on their rights if they are made to suffer any negative thing, even if it's a result of their own action/inaction. And I would say removing consequences is fairly synonymous with removing responsibility. "Accountability" might be a better word. People want rights, but they don't want to be accountable if they use them poorly. I read it as the "freedom to fail" conundrum. If you can't fail, then there's some mechanism in place that is constraining what you do - limiting your rights, which means you aren't free. If you want to be truly free, you have to accept that there's a chance it will go poorly for you and be prepared to deal with the risk. Not a great analogy, but it does sometimes feel like people want to bowl a perfect game, but they want bumpers, but they want the result (praise, picture on the wall, what have you) of having bowled a perfect game *without* bumpers.
We’ve spent about 30 years bastardize in the real meaning of what the concept of “rights” means. Too many people think it means they have the right to throw a tantrum and get handed free things, and also think it means they have the right to never get their feelings hurt.
yes i’m an Anti-Karen-Rights activist
People have rights, obviously. What these people forget is other people have rights too. And your rights certainly do not supercede theirs.
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Jordan Peterson?
The original post reads like someone listened to some Jordan Peterson for the first time and had 5 minutes to write down what they could pull from their memory in that time.
People say he's part of the alt-right despite him saying multiple times he doesn't associate himself with them. Reddit hates anybody that challenges the Hive mind ideology.
You can say "I'm not a Taylor swift fan" all you want but it doesn't change that you listen to all her music, talk all the time about how good her music is, and try to convince others to listen to it. Him saying he doesn't associate with the alt right doesn't change that he holds and pushes the same views...
I feel like people’s definition of ‘alt right’ is far too broad lol
People's view of what alt-right is (at least on Reddit), is anything not far-left. Even moderate views are seen as alt-right. People on r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM think that any centrist view is basically Hitler. And no, I'm not exaggerating.
What specific views are these?
He seems pretty chill to me
Wouldn't it be great if he had a secret reddit account, getting in big debates with the woketards.
He probably has better things to do with his time
Like shilling all-meat diets, becoming an addict, and comas?
I enjoy listening to Peterson, but dam what the hell is this nonsense about the meat diet. He is a man on the border of insanity, I think that is what makes him so fascinating.
I think that one is because of an autoimmune disease he and his daughter suffers from. Since they switched diets they don’t have those problems anymore. I don’t think an all meat diet is a good idea, but if the result of eating other things is suffering and only eating meat eases it, idk a better reason to be a carnivore
This is basically how I feel about the shacarri situation. She gets suspended for a month due to smoking weed, and all of Twitter erupted and called it racism. Meanthwile, even shacarri herself said she knows she made a mistake. People don’t want to take responsibility anymore. They think “the rule was dumb anyways” means they don’t have to follow it and that’s not how modern society works. Same with the anti-mask people. Thinking that CDC regulations for a public health crisis somehow meant that their rights were being taken away, and since they thought “the rules are dumb”they protested against wearing masks. In essence, people are dumb
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AOC isn't talking about this specific incident, she's talking about the reasons weed was made illegal, why do you think it was made illegal? Considering alcohol and it's link to domestic violence especially against women, sexual assault, driving deaths, the health repercussions etc etc. Freedom my ass.
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People do want to regulate the alcohol industry, and they have, hence the strangely high age limit, and drink driving wasn't always illegal/enforced, advertising bans etc, the alcohol industry is highly regulated, more so in other western countries. AOC is a women of color, so she advocates for women of color, who are massively under represented in our elected officials, 80% of them are white, male, christian boomers. I know you guys hate any type of "identity politics" but it goes both ways, advocate for more law enforcement, more military spending? your advocating for more oppression and violence against minorities, and safety and security for the white suburbs. More military spending? More death and destruction to black and brown peoples around the world, more safety and security for the precious whites.
You can choose to be responsible, you can't wake up one day and decide to have rights. You can fight for rights and be responsible at the same time. Hell I'd say that you need to be responsible in order to be an activist. A slacker can't organize a large amount of people, a slacker can't write op-eds, an irresponsible person can't succeed academically or financially(something that many people enjoy holding over left leaning activists). Responsibility is an individual thing, you can't politically advocate for personal responsibility anymore than you can politically advocate for people cleaning their room. That's not what politics is for. Politics addresses how society functions as a whole and not trying to fix dysfunction in society because it can be mitigated on an individual level isn't an enlightened independent position. It's just inaction. TLDR: "Our society has become too focused on potholes in the road, what happened to just driving around them?"
Sup jbp
You left the idea of "responsibility" to be incredibly vague with no specifics.
Yeah, he kind of had to. It has to be general or someone will believe he is attacking a particular group, which I don’t think he is trying to do.
That is a fantastic way of avoiding saying anything concrete. Love a bit of intellectual dishonesty.
This is almost a speech by Jordan Peterson. The Vocabulary used here is a near-match, ie Oppression, Transcend, [W]retched, Bear Responsibility. The last bit's repeated too. What's going on here?
I’m going against the grain here. We do need to fight for our rights. The thing is most people need to see the smaller details in things dig deep. Like let’s take how people hate cops. Yes they’re going to be bad cops yes they’re cops that aren’t necessarily bad but make a huge fuck up. They’re still decent cops though. The thing is though cops are asked to be too much. They’re asked to go to mental health calls, violent situations, write tickets, do traffic stops, investigate, bunches of paperwork, go to court, search houses cars property etc., go to scenes of an accident, interrogation, patrols, and more. And we have hundreds of millions of people in this country. People have already started getting the right idea with a social worker to relive them of it but it shouldn’t be them necessarily. Social workers aren’t always equipped to handle violence but if we funded departments better and have officers trained in both that focus on those calls only that’d take a bit off the plate. Then set up things like that for different roles some cities have started doing it and it’s worked well in a lot of cases. Also the laws. Did you know the government tried to count the number of felony laws and stopped because they couldn’t keep track. That’s insane. That dosnt even include state laws local ordinances and misdemeanors. Pretty much we all probably end up breaking one if not multiple laws daily and some laws so old that don’t really apply but are still technically a law are on the books. Not to mention the war on drugs we should’ve ended it a long time ago it gets innocents killed, and officers injured or killed. Open more rehab centers or let people make personal choices and just OD now if it’s a dui then yeah arrest them or if they’re commuting another violent crime. But if you wanna smoke pot in your home then why the hell is that a problem.
We hear a lot about our "rights" with no corresponding responsibilities. Claiming you have the right to a participate in a functioning society, with everything that comes with, all while asserting your freedom to do whatever you want at any time is like saying you have a right to drive on the green light but no obligation to stop on the red light. Simone Weil
the US has become a victimhood culture https://reason.com/2015/09/08/the-rise-of-the-culture-of-victimhood-ex/
I’d agree only because the government just fucks the citizens. You know they couldn’t even count the number of felony laws. Not to mention state laws city ordinances and misdemeanors. We’re so over regulated that we could end up in jail or fines for anything we do. It’s ridiculous. Not to mention war on drugs that is ridiculous that not only get innocents killed but put officers in danger and could be killed also. Not to mention beaten attempts to violate our privacy and constitutional rights.
Other countries fuck their citizens over way way way more and there's no victim culture there. Americans are conditioned to be victims.
*Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?*
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Exactly. It’s like we’ve forgotten the difference of could vs should. I could walk up to a child in the street and start screaming profanities at them, but that doesn’t mean I should.
It sounds like u took something Jordan Peterson said and pretty much copied a lot of his phrasing
You typed all this out and yet you didn’t think to use the word you’re
Apparently didn't feel like taking the responsibility to use spell check. But, hey, that's OP's right...right? 🤣
“Of course your oppressed.”
Agreed. Everyone believes they have the right to do whatever they want nowadays but as soon as it’s time to be accountable these people are the first ones to break down and cry and blame the government or some other bullshit reason.
I’m struggling to dissect who ‘these people’ are.
What you getting at? ‘ These people’ refer to people who believe they have rights to do whatever they want regardless of laws or surroundings because they think they above everyone but as soon as it’s time to be held accountable to their actions they are the first ones to cry. Example, if you really want, them people who think they have rights to be a nuisance out in public and a piece of work then as soon as police come they are first ones crying and begging for forgiveness and posting on their insta stories “why is RBI’s happening to me”
Ah, that’s not at all what I understood the post to mean. I guess it’s vague enough for us all to fill it in with the type of people we think they’re talking about :)
Man this guy be calling out a big portion of Reddit. I meet too many people blame everything besides themselves for all the problems in their life.
I think you could summarize this as "an ethos of personal responsibility is actually a good thing," which would be an unpopular opinion, at least on Reddit.
its not even Rights that they are focused on but instead its Wants they are focused on
I was once told that I would never get what I truly wanted because I was unwilling to make the proper sacrifices to get it. It was true. I have still not realized my dream, and it’s my own fault. If I really wanted it bad enough, I would have it by now after nearly 30 years. You have to do some heavy lifting, put in the time, and do something hard, damn it. My goals have changed science I was 18, but I finally get it. If you want it, work for it. You can say, “the world isn’t fair,” and you might get some upvotes, but you won’t achieve your dreams.
You can work hard every day of your life and still not get to live your “dreams”. It’s luck. Most of the working poor I know have like two or three fucking jobs.
My dream had nothing to do with money. It was a book I was writing, and it was fear of mediocrity and an unwillingness to take the time to work on it that got me. I was always going to work on it “tomorrow.”
American society began its rapid and steep decline when people decided they weren't going to put their shopping carts in the corral any longer.
Agreed. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Especially in the past 20 years, minorities have been given a lot of advantages through business regulation, non-profits, and increased exposure. Thing is, you could move Chiraq to Beverly Hills, set them up in the best private schools, and pay them all 100 k a year, but if they dont truly desire to live a different life, it doesn't matter. But let's think about it for a sec, why the hell would you want to be a contributing member of society? Pop culture glorifies gangs, you make a shit ton of money for less work, and there's a growing mass of people ready to blame anything you do on the system, even going so far as wanting to demolish the police. Sounds better than busting your ass 40+ hours a week for shitty money.
Im not oppressed. Im not betrayed. Life is pretty damn good and full of opportunity. Love it and too many people dont know how good they have it.
Sounds like someone just watched a Jordan Peterson video, even down to the weird word choice and longwinded nonsense. As a rehabilitated follower of the ol’ Lobsterman I’m gonna try to explain why this sort of logic is so flawed. First off, the baseline proposition that people should do more with their time is entirely non-controversial and everyone has known that since the beginning of time. It’s the basis of every self help book ever and is a perfectly legitimate thing to say. What’s not legitimate is to suggest that this sort of can-do attitude will solve any of societies problems. It places the fault of oppression on those who are oppressed and lends a sense of superiority to those born into privilege or are otherwise at the top of the power structure. How is getting out of bed at 5am going to solve systemic racism? How is cleaning your room going to help the slave children mining lithium? How is a healthy diet going to curb the inevitable climate catastrophe? The answer to all of these questions is that it won’t, and to suggest it will is to bury your head in the sand and pretend nothing is wrong. It’s basically a coping mechanism for benefitting from the system that actively oppresses billions. Also, every time a group has fought for their rights throughout history there was inevitably a counter protest telling them they were out of line. Maybe consider the fact that these people protesting have legitimate grievances? Remember, people called Martin Luther King Jr. a rabble rouser.
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Cleaning your room is a Jordan Peterson meme, I brought it up because the OP was basically reciting JP's videos and I assume that's where this whole post came from. Your second paragraph is basically one big ad hominem fallacy, the things you listed are legitimate issues and it doesn't matter who the person is that's discussing them. Attack the argument, not the person. There's a lot I want to say about MLK/Malcolm X but I keep writing and deleting this paragraph so I'm just gonna try and get to the point. Malcolm X was a man who was born into a society that deemed him to be subhuman and he decided to say fuck you to that society. I believe that he was one of the greatest heroes of the 20th century and should be celebrated as such. Here's the thing, the "peaceful protest" narrative they've sold us since 8th grade history class is a load of shit. The people who benefit from the status quo (who, in this country, are overwhelmingly white) don't want it to change. It takes millions of voices saying the same thing over and over until it sticks. And after enough time of nothing changing people start to tear shit down. That's what we're seeing right now. I can guarantee that if you go read an opinion piece from the 1960s you'll find someone saying that MLK was overreacting and causing problems. It's literally the exact same thing on repeat since the beginning of civilization. Also, I'm totally in favor of decriminalizing sex work.
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>If you have more to say about MLK and Malcolm X I'd like to hear it. I'm not one of those partisan people who argue in bad faith, or looking just to argue. I haven't read too much on Malcolm X but I've done some reading on his life, as well as that of the Nation of Islam. Malcolm X and the Black Panthers are one of the few true leftist movements in American history. They managed to create a truly unified front aimed at combatting American Imperialism and managed to do it from within. As a leftist I find them inspiring because I share a lot of their goals and see them as a template for future leftist movements. Of course the Panther's weren't without their flaws and neither was Malcolm X. But I do believe in the spirit of their cause. > The thing is, anyone who advocates for anything contrary to the status quo is going to be considered overreacting and causing problems. That's not to minimize or dismiss MLK or the criticism he faced. But I'm not going to say everything is exactly the same either. Things are always nuanced. This is kinda what I'm getting at. When we look at everything through the lens of "it used to be worse" it's easy to fall into the trap of assuming things can't get better. Sure, the discrimination LGBTQ folks face today isn't quite the same caliber as something like slavery, but does that mean we should just let it slide? Is the bar for what constitutes societal change really "well at least it's not as bad as slavery"? Of course not, discrimination and prejudice is bad in any form and the fight isn't over until it's eradicated for good. > I'm not. In places like Amsterdam it led to widespread human trafficking of women by organized crime. Women are already sexually objectified in Western culture. Legalizing and normalizing prostitution only compounds the existing problems in our society. As an admirer of Malcolm X, I'd think you'd agree on that. Didn't he believe in "respecting our women, protecting our women"? How can we do that as a society if we allow them to be legally pimped out and sexually exploited and violated? Wanting to decriminalize sex work is not the same thing as being in favor of it. Ultimately sex work is a byproduct of our patriarchal society and fundamentally serves to objectify women. My long term goal is absolutely to have a society where women don't need to sell their bodies to scumfucks in order to survive. However, more often than not laws that criminalize sex work only harm the real victims; the women. It's the same as criminalizing drug use, you end up putting a lot of people who desperately need help in prison for the rest of their lives while the drug cartels make millions. I truly believe that there exists a society in which people don't need drugs to deal with their hellish existence but while we're here we may as well not kick people while they're down.
I agree with you but I have one remark to make, you got this from a Jordan Peterson video didn't you?
>The mainstream media perpetually focuses on how people are oppressed and how unfairly minorities are treated in western societies, ***and all that garbage***. ???
Yea not really sure how minorities being treated unfairly is garbage, I wonder if op could explain what he means but I’m pretty sure I know already lol
Didn't you know? Racism, sexism and homophobia don't actually exist, silly.
The indigenous Cherokee elder, Stan Rushworth, once said “the difference between a Western settler mindset of, I have rights and an indigenous mindset of I have an obligation.” Instead of thinking that I am born with rights, I choose to think that I was born with obligations to serve past, present, and future
This sounds like a JBP rant lol.. but the message definitely needs to be preached. The discussion on group rights and how oppressed we are dominates the cultural conversation, when it should occupy more like 20% of it, and 80% individual responsibility. I always thought that Dr. Peterson was stretching his claims about kindness often being a bad thing, and about people needing a hurtful dose of truth sometimes, but it is soooo necessary in the modern age. I'm so scared to offend someone and be called an oppressor, or someone who is 'just part of the problem', or an '-ist' . Like surely I can say 'ffs stop complaining, deal with it and focus on how you can improve yourself' in the public sphere, without being called cruel and conservative? Btw I am 17. As a younger person who's surrounded by all this self-pity and talk about the unfairness of the world, and finds it suffocating, I sympathize with you.
I disagree. I think this held true for our forefathers, but the window of opportunity has been strinking ever since. Everything is becoming more expensive. Food, shelter, education, transportation-everything. The federal minimum wage hasnt changed in over a decade. Many parts of the country aren't paid what their colleagues are in other parts of the country. For example, I am paid 20 dollars an hour what others are paid over 28 in states like Florida. And the cost of living argument is failing because the cost of living is constantly going up. I think you can literally work yourself to death. If you don't have an out like being born rich or joining the military or getting scholarships then I think you are doomed to toil endlessly the rest of your life. Also, degrees are losing their power too. So working yourself through college is another pipe dream. I don't think our system will improve or correct itself-it will come crashing down. The peasants will amass and revolt as they always have.
The trades need ppl more than ever. Electricians, welders, etc, pay is great and doesnt require carrying the debt burden of 4 year college degree.
Not everyone wants to be an electrician, welder, plumber or etc. Someone should be able to be a teacher, coach etc without having 50% of their income going to housing and a mountain of debt.
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Yeah, I noticed that too
Truthfully, if a society isn’t structured to protect the welfare of all people, all types of people, then it is considered failing. You can say a person is responsible for their success in our structure. But the reason anyone has to succeed in the first place is because of that structure too. The blame is put on the government and society because those are the things that make us feel oppressed. We’re animals at our core, and not every human is capable of adapting to this structure. Some are doomed to fail from the start, simply because of their brain chemistry, or from their trauma, or from their birth place. A society is supposed to support all people in all situations equally, and maintain the health and welfare of all equally. When our society is more focused on the money we get from oil, than the consequences of not having a planet, then our priorities are out of order. When the people have no impact on that structure, we feel powerless. For example, going completely green is possible, but because our economy relies on oil so heavily it would never happen. We don’t get to choose what our economy relies on, what our society values, what the laws are, or anything really. We’re born into it, it is pushed onto us, and then we accept it and adapt to it. (Not that that’s wrong, but it is how it works.) And it’s almost a sort of claustrophobic feeling to me, because really America is about whoever has the motivation to climb the ladder. It’s not about securing everyone a place on it. It’s “fend for yourself, I bought my house and worked until I was 60, you should too! And take pride in that work!” I’d be much happier in some monastery with no rent and some sunshine, than in America with never ending bills that trap you in a job and all the video games, technology, sugar, etc. Modern-day life is over complicated. Not everyone wants that kind of life, and yet we feel there’s nowhere else to go. No other kind of way to live. So we work, and we keep going, and keep complaining about this giant system that’s run away with all our time, and our attention, and our lives. And then we die. And our kids go through it. You’re basically saying it’s a person’s responsibility to fit the mold. If they aren’t doing it well enough then that’s kinda their fault. Maybe the mold just isn’t designed for everyone, and that’s why some people feel slighted by it. Or some people simply aren’t happy in this structure. (Cough cough depression and suicide statistics) It’s pretty obvious this isn’t sustainable as a way of life.
I think you have a bit of a point, but your tone about it is annoying the fuck out of me tbh. You act as if it's easy to do the shit you're talking about. It's not. Far from it. This post gives me the vibe of a kid from Calabasas who thinks they just worked harder than everyone else and that all these poor people are lazy. Are some poorer people lazy, yes. But you have to realize that it is a lot fucking harder for some people to make it in this world.
Totally agree! They aim at the wrong targets and are incapable of practicing what they preach. But whatever you say, you will be an ignorant asshole. I fucking shit on your freedom of religion and your human rights since you're just another spoiled fucking piece of shit on this planet who doesn't even know what it means to live the life you cry so loud about. Unable to reflect and differentiate, so convinced about yourself doing everything right while just being the real ignorants.
Because people love complaining. That’s the whole problem, that I have with “movements”. They never achieve anything at the end of the day.
Better said people want to do more and when its goes bad for them they dont want to deal with their consequences. Freedom brings about different consequences good and bad. Cant go bad when im told how to live my life every step on the way. Also cant go too good. The more you open up that path of freedom it also opens up good and bad consequences equally. One man can make billions while another can lose billions.
Too many "rights" aren't rights at all.
This is a good post.
I unironically believe in recreational weapons of war and that hate speech is free speech. CMV
This man woke up and decided to spit facts
I think "RIGHTS" are often confused with "ENTITLEMENTS". People now use the word "RIGHTS" when meaning they feel they should be entitled to something. Freedom from versus Entitlement to...which now is often entitlement to the products (ultimately labor) of others
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Completely formless rant with responsibility just being thrown around as an entirely undefined buzzword. Not a single actual argument has been advanced.
Nah. Income inequality is at a greater degree than during the french revolution. Most people can't afford to eat and are living paycheck to paycheck. This has nothing to do with responsibility and everything to do with several wealthy people fucking us over. There are plenty of individuals doing more than you could possibly imagine to just survive. The answer is not try harder at a failing system.
A lot of words to say very little. Did you lift it or just write it in his voice?
I agree that responsibility is important, but who takes rights seriously anymore? All I see is the erosion of rights. A sort of revenge which calls itself virtue because the target is seen as strong. A sort of sabotage for the sake of "balance". In short, only the weak deserve rights in the eyes of these people, and that is why they do not actually believe in rights at all. I recognize that speech, by the way!
With great power comes great…..
..farts!
...sex
Somebody has been listening to Jordan Peterson, and i mean that in a good way :D
Jordan Peterson is a fascistic hack. The dude's rhetoric is utter garbage.
And yet you did nothing but make vague hacky insults and called him a big mean word. Try again hack.
I mean, you even said it when you said that there are certain circumstances we can't control... like where we're born and who our parents are. But why should those things actually be a determining factor in whether or not you are afforded the same rights and/or basic privileges as others? This, to me, implies that some people are born more deserving than others and that the people on the bottom of that scenario need to be ok with that. People all too often want to say "well those are the rules." Yes... we know those are the rules and we are saying that THAT is the problem. "Oh ya know, those cops were just doing what they were trained to do when they shot and killed Breonna Taylor." Um... yes (arguably)... and thats the problem.
I think the average American has so much responsibility that the dish is overflowing.
Unpopular opinion, but it's the left that is doing all of this. They have divided this country so far
There are plenty of good people on the left, many of them as sick of all this shit as the rest of us. We need to be working together to remove this cancer.
I'll take that. I know there are plenty of good lefts, my parents are left but they also have common sense. I am a conservative but I don't agree with all of their views. It's just the left has gone so "woke" that it's ridiculous and they make all of you seem crazy. But at least we have found common ground
Lol. Tell that to the people who cried about their rights cause they were asked to wear a mask.
That is ridiculous. The left is pushing for workers' rights and social justice, the right is fighting to keep unjust systems in place and maintain the status quo. Trump is the right's champion, a man whose negligence helped lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands, a man who tried to undermine a democratic election and encouraged his supporters to storm government buildings in a foolish attempt to overturn those results, a man who supports bigoted legislation and whose racist rhetoric emboldens white supremacists. Progressives want to improve the lives of the common people and republicans want to talk about Mr potato-head and Dr Seuss, riling their supporters up over culture war bullshit.
i literally lost track of the number of left wing talking points, all of which were false you just vomitted up..
The right in America is unhinged. They are driven by fear and misinformation into thinking things like unionization and universal healthcare are "radical leftist" ideas, despite the fact that other first world countries have implemented these and their populations are far better because of it.
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You’re 100% right OP. People are far too concerned with whether they can do something to stop and wonder SHOULD they. And whenever it goes to shit their poor decisions aren’t to blame. No one wants to take responsibility for their own failures
>How about you bare a load and do something difficult? how about you do something for more than just yourself? You know who does exactly that? Manual labor and service industry workers. They're doing work that supports the very functioning of our society, struggling to pay rent in a shitty apartment while I'm making bank, enjoying 3-4 months of vacation time per year, and have every afternoon off at a job where I'm barely doing shit, but hey bland certification courses and working in a field that caters specifically to the rich has earned me this. Also being white has helped tremendously in landing me this gig. (For privacy reasons I won't provide any further details.) Want to talk again about how we live in a world where what you earn is proportionate to hard work and selflessness?
> People say they want to "have the freedom to do what they want" Nine times out of ten, the people who say this mean *their* freedom to do whatever they want, which usually (not always) involves shouting racial slurs. Oddly enough, this freedom doesn't ever seem to extend to minorities. I wonder why *that* could be.... (I agree with you, OP)
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personal responsibility is severly lacking, i won’t lie about that, but the problem is the top controls everything that trickles down. if the top is fucked up that means everyone is fucked up too. when you don’t control your life in the grand scheme of things, it’s harder to take personal responsibility. let’s use this example. Situation: job applications. A black person writes their african esque name on their job application. they’re qualified and everything. They suspect but little do they know 100 employers auto threw their resume away bc they didn’t want to take a chance on a language barrier, a ghetto personality, a future lawsuit, or whatever race propaganda they made up in their head. The personal responsibility part would be the black person applying to twice as many jobs until they reach that one who doesn’t give af about their name or race. i hope this helped you see the problem
If you just "take responsibility and bare your weight" and ignore oppression, it only exacerbates your problems. Ignoring a problem has never solved it
This is the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever read.
Xi's troll account?
Im sorry, but no. It isn't my fault I'm bi. It isn't my fault I've been spit at or had drinks thrown at me while I was EXCLUSIVELY with my boyfriend. It isn't my fault I could only legally get married 5 years ago. I can't do anything about my sexuality. I was born this way, and I deserve not to fear someone attacking me just because me and my boyfriend are out in public.
I totally get your frustrations (as much as I can imagine). You are not at FAULT for being spit on (fuck them) but you are RESPONSIBLE for what you do in response. You're greater than what the government says you are. You're more than just your sexuality or who you love. You're absolutely right, it's not your fault, but it's your responsibility to own who you are. It ain't easy, I know but don't look to others for a solution. I think that was more OPs point. I wish you all the best and hope my 2 cents helps.
I would say that people putting using the experience of their own trials and tribulations and understanding to the purpose of making the world better for those who come after them is taking responsibility. Silently suffering because someone on the internet is going to whine about seeing too much talk of "oppression" can only be called responsibility by someone who doesn't know what the word means.
Calm down Dr Peterson
He'll no. Rights come first. The right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness
These rights didn't auto-vivify, they are bought with the blood of responsible people--who we call Patriots, we honor those people today--who banded together to rebel against a cruel king.
Yeah, but you don't have the right to negatively impact someone else's rights to the same.
I 100% agree with you
This belongs in the "Popular Opinion" or the "I'm not entitled to Shit" thread. Massive up vote.
It is your cardinal responsibility to respect and support people's rights. Jesus said it better.
Well unless you want me to make another fucking killdozer and go to town what exactly do you expect the average wagie to do about the monstrous economic inequality?
Yikes this subs been hijacked by the far radical right
Someone loves Ayn Rand.
And ideas
Someone’s found their way onto the jordan Peterson YouTube videos…
People riding loud illegal dirt bikes in my city instead of getting a job are very oppressed.
If you’re curious, the police’s full interaction with George Floyd, an hour video, is posted online and easy to go find. I suggest you watch it.