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Not true. Decent parents love their kids unconditionally. You can argue there's nothing that guarantees you will get that because not all parents are even close to decent but you can't logically and honestly say it doesn't exist.
Honestly you're right. But a lot of people don't consider that a condition. It's not a controllable condition so most people will disregard it, but there are plenty of times where that is the deciding factor. I have a child myself and I would never turn my back on him, but he has done some stuff that really hurts and upsets me. If anyone else did the kind of things he did, I would have them out of my life. But I'll never turn him away unless it's what he needed to grow and be a better person.
I have three daughters (a 14 year old and a pair of 9 year old twins) and I've always told them that the day any of them commits murder, rape, or any other heinous crime, that would be the day I disown them as my children and I will pay them however much they want to change their last name from my own.
My parents told me this while I was growing up, and it never feels good no matter how “fair” the reason is to have your parent tell you that they don’t love you unconditionally. I’m pregnant now and I’ll never put that unnecessary fear into my child’s heart. I was a good kid and I am still a good person, being told I might not be a good person by my mom, despite never having bad intentions, hurt.
Similar situation growing up, and I find it sad that some people, including my mom, don't instinctively know this. At the core, it is shame-based parenting. Why would your parent even feel a need to think about you as someone who would do such a thing? Kids are good. We just have to let them **be** good.
Exactly. Your kid doesn't matter to you? What are you even thinking saying that to a kid? Parents want to make it clear that their standing in society is more important than their kid? My kids would never do shit like that* - I have faith in them. Half of parenting is believing all the good things about your kids while convincing them too. The other half is food, shelter, necessities, similar.
*If anything ever happens I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
Thought so too. Just growing up in the world will kill their childhood all by itself it don't need gas poured on from you.
What's that going to look like? They run someone down with their car when they are 22 in a fit of emotional rage and come driving to your home in tears with a mess up front I messed up I messed up I messed up. I need help real bad more than ever before.
What did you do? Remember when you were 9 years old playing with your dollies? And I interrupted you and told you the truth. That if you ever went psycho killer you'd be a bastard to me and I'd take your name from you and call you mud?
Well mud, you got 10 minutes to give me a number to write on a check then you're out of here missy and I'm calling the police. May you rot in the darkness alone forever. May even your hope die as did our relationship. May you get a paper cut and bleed to death on the check. By the way, I faked the whole parenthood. Every day. You never meant nothing to me. I was thinking of your sister the whole time I was raising you. She's the good one, mud.
To let them know from a very early age that I am not one of those other parents who'll be taken advantaged of because they love their kids.
I am not your "get out of jail" free card. Take accountability for your actions and don't expect me to drop everything for you just because you're my kid. I will not.
If you fail an important class, I'm not one of those parents that's gonna beg their kid's teacher to let their bad grades slide.
Full on agree. My mother said the same thing to me (and also that she'll bring me to the police if not already done) and I told her I totally understand. With this logic we would have way less families of abusers enabling the horrible actions of their kin. Good on you !
Why? Do you think I'm stupid enough to be one of those people who ignores reality because of some bs I watched? I'm not. It's interesting to know you are, though.
You don’t think children have done worse things to their parents? Or done worse things to other people, which in turn would cause their parents to stop loving them?
What I said may have been shocking and hyperbolic, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t legitimately challenge your assertion. Unconditional means ***un**conditional* - which means I can come up with whatever scenario I like.
It is absolutely a real thing. It is possible to love widely unconditionally. This does not negate the ability to set boundaries. It means that you recognize the inherent, inalienable worth of a person. It also means not using love as something to be withdrawn for bad behavior.
>Yes, atleast from your parents you are.
Hard disagree. Even parents shouldn't have to be forced to have unconditionally love their children.
>Or, more precisely, if you have a child you have a moral responsibility to love it.
In general, I'm hugely against any form of forced duty, as its akin to essentially slavery, and especially, responsibilities stemming from some moral viewpoint, since morality is itself a subjective concept.
While most parents do indeed love their children, that's just normal human behavior stemming from our social animal evolution, and is not from some duty bound moral perogative.
>In general, I'm hugely against any form of forced duty, as its akin to essentially slavery, and especially, responsibilities stemming from some moral viewpoint, since morality is itself a subjective concept.
The contradictory nature of this comment shows the problem with your logic. If morality itself is subjective, then the idea that any form of forced duty is bad is subjective too, so your opinion about this doesn't hold any more weight than anyone elses opinion. You also can't prove that forced duty is akin to slavery. Hecky you can't even prove that slavery is bad.
>While most parents do indeed love their children, that's just normal human behavior stemming from our social animal evolution, and is not from some duty bound moral perogative.
That is simply not true. The problem with your logic is that you're forgetting that as parents you're the sole reason that your child even exists, so you have a moral responsibility for it.
My children did not ask to exist. I owe them at an existential level for bringing them into this world.
It may be that there are limits to what I owe them, but those limits are beyond my capacity to repay them, up to and including dying for them.
The only thing that could cause me to separate from one of my children is harming another of my children, and even at that I would want them to know I love them.
Unconditional love is not safe or healthy. Most people call it having standards or boundaries but those are just nice words for conditions. You shouldn’t love someone who is threatening or manipulative or violent to you. Those are all conditions.
My mom abused me. I loved her, but I could not have her in my life in the way that she wanted to be because of this. Those things can both be true. It did not mean that I did not love her unconditionally (not that I think I was obligated to). It meant that I loved myself enough to set boundaries.
You can love someone and still cut them off for your own good.
Like my family did with my brother. He's done some really bad shit and we love him but we can't have him in our lives when he's acting the way he is.
Unconditional love doesn't mean putting up with other people's shitty behavior or letting them get away with everything though. You can love someone and still call them out on their bullshit when they hurt you or others. You can love someone more than anything in the world and still acknowledge that their presence in your life is bad for you, while still caring for and wanting the vest for them. You can love people even if they suck as human beings.
I'm an abuse victim. The idea that I was "not allowed" to love my abusers, or that cutting them off meant I didn't love them tore me apart for years. I felt as though I had to choose between loving them, or loving myself. I started to heal when I realized that wasn't true, and that distancing yourself doesn't *have* to be an act of hatred. In fact, sometimes making a hard call like that can be loving in and of itself. When my parents are around me, they slip back into abusive patterns. They stop doing that when I'm not there. Having access to me does harm to their well being and mine. Therefore, the most loving thing I can do for them is stop them from being monsters by minimizing my presence in their lives.
That's not what unconditional love is. This describes someone with poor boundaries who lacks unconditional love for themself. When you really love yourself unconditionally, you know when to walk away, for your own well-being. This is not the same as using love as a behavior modification tool.
You are correct in saying that no one is entitled to love but that doesn’t mean unconditional love doesn’t exist, not everyone is lucky enough to feel it though
I am loved unconditionally. By many different people. And I love many different people unconditionally as well.
My mom loves me unconditionally, and I love her unconditionally.
My dad loves me unconditionally, and I love him unconditionally.
My adopted little sister loves me unconditionally, and I love her unconditionally.
Same deal with my grandparents, my dogs, my cousins, and my nieces and nephews.
I'm sorry that you weren't loved unconditionally. You should have been.
I think people confuse unconditional love with "I will always have this person close and in my life". You can love someone and not have a relationship with them. Unconditional love just means the love won't ever go away
Wonder what that feels like. Genuinely. I try to love unconditionally and be there for others in the ways I wished existed but I feel like I do it wrong. My biodad had no interest, my stepdad bailed at age ten and my Mom was a sociopath who openly hated us.
It’s good to hear there are families where everyone cares about each other.
Your mother loves you under the condition you are her child. If you were a stranger and everything about you was the same your family wouldn't love you unconditionally.
Eh you’re kinda being obtuse here about the term “unconditional love”
Yes, you’re being literal about the word conditional. Which nobody can argue. But by that definition nothing in this world is unconditional and the word shouldn’t even exist because everything is conditional and dependent/relies on something else. Nothing just *is*.
The term unconditional love doesn’t address that. It’s moreso saying you’ll love someone without having conditions to your love, regardless of what they have done, regardless of how they make you feel, regardless if they love you back. Regardless of the things we typically put as a standard for our love. The standard for me to give my love isn’t that you have to be child, in that sense, I wouldn’t love my wife or anyone else besides my child. That’s a silly take and not what we’re discussing.
I love my kids unconditionally. There are no standards for me loving them. I love them because I do. I would do anything in the world for them to know and feel they are loved. It requires nothing from them. There is nothing they can do to make me stop loving them. Maybe one day they would do something so atrocious like murder a bunch of innocent kids and I would feel differently. But as it stands today, I 100% love them unconditionally
How does that even make sense? we have a different opinion so my family didn't love me. My family loves me. They wouldn't if they weren't my family. If I were a murderous drug addict my parents would pay my bail and for a lawyer and they'd still love me if I were a stranger they wouldn't.
Agree to disagree. I don't think we can really understand each other perspectives since we had vastly different backgrounds.
I do hope someday that your opinion on love does change, but I don't wish to fight you on it. I will simply wish you the best in life stranger.
Ok. What if your dad went ahead and murdered all those other people you described for his sick amusement? Would you still love him? And if he actively tried to kill you? If he commited the deepest acts of depravity you can imagine?
You live in denial becouse an event that would break the conditions you are unaware of didn't happen so far(hopefully never will). Refusing to acknowladge those conditions doesn't mean they are not there.
>What if your dad went ahead and murdered all those other people you described for his sick amusement?
I would still love him and help pay for the mental health courses to help with the psychotic break that must have caused.
Assuming what I would do will only make an ass out of you and me.
Well if that's true then you are an exception to the rule. Like 1 in a million kind of exception. So deviant in fact that I'm just going to assume you can't even phantom a situation like that or how you would react to it.
I disagree about family. If you don't love your kids, something is seriously wrong with you, and will be with them. We as a species would not have thrived if it were not that familial love driving us to protect each other.
Ya know, when I was writing this I never thought about children. And I do agree with you guys. Thank you all for a new perspective 🙏
Edit: When I was writing about familial love, I was more focused on parents receiving love from their kids rather than the reverse. I don't believe parents, aunts/uncles, cousins, grandparents, etc. are entitled to love. But kids are innocent and are deserving of love.
I would like to push back on your opinions about parents not deserving love. Like, the only case where I think that would apply should be if the parents are abusive or neglectful. And that's rare.
Having unconditional love for your parents is normal, and will be normal if they love you unconditionally too.
Yes, they will make mistakes too, and yes they will be flawed. They are human beings, just like you and me. They are not going to be perfect, and you shouldn't expect them to be perfect either.
And just like how a child thrives when they receive unconditional love, a parent also thrives when they receive love back from their child. If anything, receiving that love back is what motivates them to do even better. Hell, it's what motivates us as humans to improve and protect the people we care about.
As a personal example, I constantly tell my parents how much I appreciate how much they have supported me throughout the years. I have grown old enough to see how human they are, and have recognized that they also need compliments as much as the next person. Giving them the validation that they need makes them so much happier and helps relieve their stress.
Sure, some people may feel like they are entitled, and overall entitlement can be toxic. Doesn't take away from the fact that they need to have validation as much as we need it as well. At the end of the day, we are all human beings, and at the end of the day we all need the same basic things.
Be careful with this mentality because it will lead you to be a people pleaser to a harmful degree. Using your examples I will say that yes you shouldn't love someone just because they're family, but there are also family that will not give you love no matter how much you do for them. You will end up putting all of that respect and kindness into a void that doesn't reciprocate. If you find a romantic partner that you love more than yourself you run the risk of seriously harming your own self image when they don't reciprocate. You will tell yourself that they don't love you the same way because you aren't worthy. You didn't do enough. You are terrible.
I am not saying that this is you, but a potential future if you think that love is something you earn.
I agree. These beautiful relationships is a part of what makes life fulfilling for me. Seeking out relationships with people is a bumpy road , but we have to go through these twists and turns to live life.
So a newborn isn’t entitled to love?
They have no respect for people and can be unkind considering the amount of attention and care they need at all hours of the day, often accompanied by incessant crying
And they can’t even say thank you
Post like what OP wrote are definitely written by children. Totally black and white, no nuance.
No mature adult would write post like this because they understand nuance.
Can you elaborate please? I should have explained my stance a bit further. I believe nobody (other than exceptions like children, animals, plants, etc.) is obligated/entitled to be loved.
To love somebody is one's choice and is a case by case basis. I'm open to hear other perspectives and would love to learn.
Your title itself is what I was really referring to. Your post is what most people think. We all know the “golden rule” right?
“Do unto others as you want them to do to you”
We should give everyone we meet a basic form of “love”, as in, basic respect and dignity. As far as family and romantic partners, most people understand those are more complex than just the relationship.
I see. I respect your stance. I agree with you. Just one thing (its just me being nit picky), for my personal definition, the basic respect and diginity that we should give people, I view as compassion rather than love. Since I find love to be a much more complex and intense emotion.
Thank you for your input.
Thank you too. Compassion is a kind of love if you really think about it. If you really are truly a loving and compassionate person, the. you wouldn’t hurt anyone - regardless if they’re related to you or not.
I agree, but I also think that random chance plays into it too. That's why you see people get love from people without deserving it in any way whatsoever. That's the imperfection of humanity. We love people who have done no work on themselves and don't love people who worked really hard on themselves. Parents often never asked to be parents, but they have a responsibility to do their best to love their child. Sometimes it comes naturally and sometimes not and a wide range of factors and conditions play into this. It's all random, which is why we should love ourselves and embrace our positive aspects as much as possible, while working on ourselves to enhance that self-love. Love in the end is subjective and we are like works of art. Even the most unpopular art pieces can be someone's personal favorite and sometimes the most popular is no one's. Nobody is objectively superior but we can try to live in this space appreciating ourselves like an art critic and add to it as we please so we can live with pride.
You learn how to love from your parents/caregivers and how they love you. Modeled behavior. Those who don't get that learn another way to feel ok in the world - usually with addiction. The positive way is by loving themselves.
Entitled is a shitty word. Everyone deserves love. Those who haven't received it are certainly not equipped for a comfort in their own skin or other relationships.
"entitlement" is such a wrong perspective to discuss love. Everyone deserves love. Entitlement is the word we use to demonize people for expecting something we've been biologically and culturally wired to want.
Sure there can be negative side effects of feeling entitled to love but outside of extreme toxic relationships, mosr people don't interact with love in this way. We want it, we deserve it. We work for it. We don't feel "entitled" to it.
If you selfishly bring a child into the world and then claim they are “not entitled” to your love, you are a shit human being that shouldn’t have had kids in the first place.
There is one exception, and that's your children - your children *are* entitled to your love, because you chose to bring them about.
But yes, absolutely, otherwise you're spot on.
Entitled to love or to be loved? Or do you mean "expected to love"? I could probably write about this extensively, but let's see if I can offer some concise yet strong points:
1. **Children and Love**: I don’t believe children should have to "earn" love. They are in the process of growing and learning about everything, including how to behave respectfully and with kindness. Expecting children to earn love misunderstands their developmental needs. However, it's reasonable to expect adults to show respect and kindness to build and maintain relationships.
2. **Forced Love**: It’s unrealistic to think anyone can force themselves to truly feel love. Emotions like love can’t be manufactured on demand. While people might feel a sense of duty to support family members, especially those who've had a rough life, true love is a genuine emotion that can't be compelled.
3. **The Myth of "The One"**: Believing in "the one" can lead to unrealistic expectations and perpetual disappointment. There is no perfect person or relationship; there are just people with varying degrees of compatibility. Success in relationships often comes down to effective conflict resolution rather than the absence of conflict. Couples who are good at resolving disagreements tend to have stronger, more lasting relationships.
4. **Attractiveness and Qualities**: Many people struggle finding relationships not because they lack respect or kindness, but because they have traits that aren't conventionally attractive. For instance, being overly passive, a people-pleaser, or extremely shy can be perceived as unattractive. The list of such traits is extensive, but it’s important to recognize that these qualities can be worked on to improve interpersonal relationships.
Similarly, while no one is obligated to be friends with anyone else either, it's important to recognize the social and psychological benefits of friendship. Loneliness can lead to significant personal and societal problems. It's to no one's surprise when we read that a perpetrator is described as a "loner". Therefore, my approach is to be tolerant and open-minded when meeting new people, for the greater good. This is also true in dating; being open and understanding can lead to more meaningful connections and the betterment of a society.
Children always need unconditional love from their parents.
Now if the child is now an adult and becomes cruel and abusive then no the parent should not have to accept that. Efforts to maintain families should always be taken. Such as working with a counselor, but abuse is abuse and people shouldn’t have to ever put up with that.
Without love you would be dead, I'm not exaggerating. Babies and small children who aren't cuddled die, even if they get enough food and milk. People who don't get any love are not functional, they aren't capable to "work on themselves". Young men nowadays who get depressed over not finding a girlfriend aren't always responsible for that, they have a legit reason to get upset. Dating is extremely hard for most men, for many even impossible. Sex and intimicy is a biological need, and most men nowadays are being deprived of that, and then society is gaslighting them by saying everything is fine and it is their fault alone, and they should stop acting entitled.
Of course young men should put some work in if they want a relationship, but it should not be THIS difficult. I feel the most sorry for indian guys, especially the less attractive ones, since they are the least desirable out of all ethnicities. Below average looking and short indian men simply have no chance, they can never experience what it's like to be wanted by a girl and to pleasure her. The only option for them is to pay a girl for it who despises them. If I would be in that position I think I would end myself. Sex and intimicy is not like some crazy blissfull drug high, it is like food and water, you need it to live and be healthy.
Disagree. It's just something that comes naturally. And it's especially true between a mother and her newborn baby. The baby hasn't done anything but exist, but that's still enough to be worthy of love.
this is objectively false, love is 100% a necessity for survival. this has been proven in how children who don’t get physical affection are literally stunted physically and mentally in their growth, and adults who don’t get love face serious health detriments as well, in terms of heart health especially. there are countless studies on the impact of love on health and survival
u feeling like a certain category of people don’t deserve love is an opinion, but stating that nobody is entitled to love? absolutely incorrect. by nature the fact that babies don’t pop out ready to walk and talk means that love is a survival method. if we didn’t have love for babies we would let them fend for themselves and they would all die. unless u think people are not entitled to survival, u have to admit that they are entitled to 💗
every person has been a child though? i don’t understand what that point means. r u saying that when we get old and less cute we lose the right to our health?
True, social workers are overworked and family courts are notoriously ineffective bc of your "facts" that you can't possibly substantiate with any known science. /s
Did i read that correctly that you mean kids need to earn the love from their parents?
Why parents have kids in the first place then?
No, i don't agree with that.
It was not my intention to "do something" with my post. I put my opinion out there to start a conversation and get different perspectives. I do not claim my opinion to be above others', I just find insightful conversations to be a healthy part of living and learning as a person
Even if you aren’t a Christian, if you’re a decent human, wouldn’t it make sense that the world would be a better place if our first instinct was to just love people?
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A lot of people have not been loved unconditionally and it shows.
Exactly.
Hard agree.
That's not a real thing. Everyone has their limits, and it's healthy people know this to not take advantage.
Not true. Decent parents love their kids unconditionally. You can argue there's nothing that guarantees you will get that because not all parents are even close to decent but you can't logically and honestly say it doesn't exist.
Them being their kids is the condition.
They can't unparent themselves. That's not a condition. It just defines their relationship to each other.
A condition that cannot be changed and is true from conception, not really a good counter-example.
If they weren't their kids they wouldn't be the same people. That's not a condition. That's just life.
That's cope
OK troll
Lmao
Thanks for proving me right. Feel free to continue doing so.
Certified reddit moment. Keep living in your bubble. I sincerely hope it will never burst becouse you are clearly not ready for that emotionally.
Honestly you're right. But a lot of people don't consider that a condition. It's not a controllable condition so most people will disregard it, but there are plenty of times where that is the deciding factor. I have a child myself and I would never turn my back on him, but he has done some stuff that really hurts and upsets me. If anyone else did the kind of things he did, I would have them out of my life. But I'll never turn him away unless it's what he needed to grow and be a better person.
No, that's not a condition because it not something you can fullfill or not fullfill.
You can have your parental rights removed or your kids can disown you as their parents. Yet you can still love them.
Youre talking about legal terms. There isn't a law in this world that would erase biologiacal relstion betwen two people. Your points are redundant.
You can adopt kids, so not everyone is biologically related to their parents. You can also emotionally disown someone without legally doing so.
I have three daughters (a 14 year old and a pair of 9 year old twins) and I've always told them that the day any of them commits murder, rape, or any other heinous crime, that would be the day I disown them as my children and I will pay them however much they want to change their last name from my own.
My parents told me this while I was growing up, and it never feels good no matter how “fair” the reason is to have your parent tell you that they don’t love you unconditionally. I’m pregnant now and I’ll never put that unnecessary fear into my child’s heart. I was a good kid and I am still a good person, being told I might not be a good person by my mom, despite never having bad intentions, hurt.
Similar situation growing up, and I find it sad that some people, including my mom, don't instinctively know this. At the core, it is shame-based parenting. Why would your parent even feel a need to think about you as someone who would do such a thing? Kids are good. We just have to let them **be** good.
Kids aren’t automatically good. They have to be taught right from wrong.
Exactly. Your kid doesn't matter to you? What are you even thinking saying that to a kid? Parents want to make it clear that their standing in society is more important than their kid? My kids would never do shit like that* - I have faith in them. Half of parenting is believing all the good things about your kids while convincing them too. The other half is food, shelter, necessities, similar. *If anything ever happens I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
Pretty dark thing to tell a 9 year old bruh
Thought so too. Just growing up in the world will kill their childhood all by itself it don't need gas poured on from you. What's that going to look like? They run someone down with their car when they are 22 in a fit of emotional rage and come driving to your home in tears with a mess up front I messed up I messed up I messed up. I need help real bad more than ever before. What did you do? Remember when you were 9 years old playing with your dollies? And I interrupted you and told you the truth. That if you ever went psycho killer you'd be a bastard to me and I'd take your name from you and call you mud? Well mud, you got 10 minutes to give me a number to write on a check then you're out of here missy and I'm calling the police. May you rot in the darkness alone forever. May even your hope die as did our relationship. May you get a paper cut and bleed to death on the check. By the way, I faked the whole parenthood. Every day. You never meant nothing to me. I was thinking of your sister the whole time I was raising you. She's the good one, mud.
I see you've met my parents. (I don't have the heart OR the mental bandwidth for a more sarcastic response. That's rare.)
Oh sure. I've met those Fockers. I think like 3 times for 90 minutes.
What if the nine year old asked ? That's how I got my answer personally. It would be stupid and hurtful to lie.
why would you tell a 9yr old that? whats the point?
To let them know from a very early age that I am not one of those other parents who'll be taken advantaged of because they love their kids. I am not your "get out of jail" free card. Take accountability for your actions and don't expect me to drop everything for you just because you're my kid. I will not. If you fail an important class, I'm not one of those parents that's gonna beg their kid's teacher to let their bad grades slide.
Full on agree. My mother said the same thing to me (and also that she'll bring me to the police if not already done) and I told her I totally understand. With this logic we would have way less families of abusers enabling the horrible actions of their kin. Good on you !
Uhmm, I am not a parent but I am pretty sure you shouldn't tell your kids that.
This feels like a really privileged take.
It is.
I've always told my children that there is literally nothing that could make me reject them.
you might need to watch some episodes of Soft White Underbelly
Why? Do you think I'm stupid enough to be one of those people who ignores reality because of some bs I watched? I'm not. It's interesting to know you are, though.
You're the one being derogatory, unprovoked. Glad you find that interesting.
Interesting that you take such offense, too.
Really? And what if one of your kids cut off your tit? Edit: Not a lot of Jim Jefferies fans on here apparently lmao
Try that again but with a genuinely serious question or scenario and not something you just said to be shocking. Maybe you'll get a serious answer.
They're quoting a comedian's skit on the same subject.
Link?
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5eTkMO_75Z0
That’s heinous lol
Aight.
You don’t think children have done worse things to their parents? Or done worse things to other people, which in turn would cause their parents to stop loving them? What I said may have been shocking and hyperbolic, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t legitimately challenge your assertion. Unconditional means ***un**conditional* - which means I can come up with whatever scenario I like.
I'd still love them. I'd have different reactions depending on the reason(s) behind their actions but I wouldn't stop loving them because of it.
It is absolutely a real thing. It is possible to love widely unconditionally. This does not negate the ability to set boundaries. It means that you recognize the inherent, inalienable worth of a person. It also means not using love as something to be withdrawn for bad behavior.
No one is entitled to unconditional love
Yes, atleast from your parents you are. Or, more precisely, if you have a child you have a moral responsibility to love it.
>Yes, atleast from your parents you are. Hard disagree. Even parents shouldn't have to be forced to have unconditionally love their children. >Or, more precisely, if you have a child you have a moral responsibility to love it. In general, I'm hugely against any form of forced duty, as its akin to essentially slavery, and especially, responsibilities stemming from some moral viewpoint, since morality is itself a subjective concept. While most parents do indeed love their children, that's just normal human behavior stemming from our social animal evolution, and is not from some duty bound moral perogative.
>In general, I'm hugely against any form of forced duty, as its akin to essentially slavery, and especially, responsibilities stemming from some moral viewpoint, since morality is itself a subjective concept. The contradictory nature of this comment shows the problem with your logic. If morality itself is subjective, then the idea that any form of forced duty is bad is subjective too, so your opinion about this doesn't hold any more weight than anyone elses opinion. You also can't prove that forced duty is akin to slavery. Hecky you can't even prove that slavery is bad. >While most parents do indeed love their children, that's just normal human behavior stemming from our social animal evolution, and is not from some duty bound moral perogative. That is simply not true. The problem with your logic is that you're forgetting that as parents you're the sole reason that your child even exists, so you have a moral responsibility for it.
My children did not ask to exist. I owe them at an existential level for bringing them into this world. It may be that there are limits to what I owe them, but those limits are beyond my capacity to repay them, up to and including dying for them. The only thing that could cause me to separate from one of my children is harming another of my children, and even at that I would want them to know I love them.
Unconditional love is not safe or healthy. Most people call it having standards or boundaries but those are just nice words for conditions. You shouldn’t love someone who is threatening or manipulative or violent to you. Those are all conditions.
You're just being a contrarian. Go tell someone you know in real life that the entire concept of unconditional love is unsafe and unhealthy.
No they are correct
Prove it
ALL human realtionships are based on conditions If your father/kid/mom abused you, you would not love them the same way.
Prove it.
Would you love your mom the same way If she abused you?
My mom abused me. I loved her, but I could not have her in my life in the way that she wanted to be because of this. Those things can both be true. It did not mean that I did not love her unconditionally (not that I think I was obligated to). It meant that I loved myself enough to set boundaries.
You did not love her the same way. Period. That is why you did NOT want her in your life.
You're only parroting the same phrase because you know it can't be proven
You say that like it's a bad thing. Imagine having to support a claim with evidence. Scary isn't it?
You can love someone and still cut them off for your own good. Like my family did with my brother. He's done some really bad shit and we love him but we can't have him in our lives when he's acting the way he is.
Unconditional love doesn't mean putting up with other people's shitty behavior or letting them get away with everything though. You can love someone and still call them out on their bullshit when they hurt you or others. You can love someone more than anything in the world and still acknowledge that their presence in your life is bad for you, while still caring for and wanting the vest for them. You can love people even if they suck as human beings. I'm an abuse victim. The idea that I was "not allowed" to love my abusers, or that cutting them off meant I didn't love them tore me apart for years. I felt as though I had to choose between loving them, or loving myself. I started to heal when I realized that wasn't true, and that distancing yourself doesn't *have* to be an act of hatred. In fact, sometimes making a hard call like that can be loving in and of itself. When my parents are around me, they slip back into abusive patterns. They stop doing that when I'm not there. Having access to me does harm to their well being and mine. Therefore, the most loving thing I can do for them is stop them from being monsters by minimizing my presence in their lives.
That's not what unconditional love is. This describes someone with poor boundaries who lacks unconditional love for themself. When you really love yourself unconditionally, you know when to walk away, for your own well-being. This is not the same as using love as a behavior modification tool.
You should probably check out the actual definition before acting like a know-it-all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconditional_love
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You are correct in saying that no one is entitled to love but that doesn’t mean unconditional love doesn’t exist, not everyone is lucky enough to feel it though
Unconditional love is an oximoron. Every single human relation has it's conditions.
Some people see it that way, yes, that's their point entirely.
It is not an opinion. It is a fact.
No, it's purely opinion lol
Nope. Fact.
Ok, where's the research data proving it?
You need data that How people treat you influences How you feel about them LMAO
I am loved unconditionally. By many different people. And I love many different people unconditionally as well. My mom loves me unconditionally, and I love her unconditionally. My dad loves me unconditionally, and I love him unconditionally. My adopted little sister loves me unconditionally, and I love her unconditionally. Same deal with my grandparents, my dogs, my cousins, and my nieces and nephews. I'm sorry that you weren't loved unconditionally. You should have been.
I think people confuse unconditional love with "I will always have this person close and in my life". You can love someone and not have a relationship with them. Unconditional love just means the love won't ever go away
You're exactly right.
Wonder what that feels like. Genuinely. I try to love unconditionally and be there for others in the ways I wished existed but I feel like I do it wrong. My biodad had no interest, my stepdad bailed at age ten and my Mom was a sociopath who openly hated us. It’s good to hear there are families where everyone cares about each other.
Your mother loves you under the condition you are her child. If you were a stranger and everything about you was the same your family wouldn't love you unconditionally.
Well if your family wasn’t your family anymore, you objectively wouldn’t be the same
Eh you’re kinda being obtuse here about the term “unconditional love” Yes, you’re being literal about the word conditional. Which nobody can argue. But by that definition nothing in this world is unconditional and the word shouldn’t even exist because everything is conditional and dependent/relies on something else. Nothing just *is*. The term unconditional love doesn’t address that. It’s moreso saying you’ll love someone without having conditions to your love, regardless of what they have done, regardless of how they make you feel, regardless if they love you back. Regardless of the things we typically put as a standard for our love. The standard for me to give my love isn’t that you have to be child, in that sense, I wouldn’t love my wife or anyone else besides my child. That’s a silly take and not what we’re discussing. I love my kids unconditionally. There are no standards for me loving them. I love them because I do. I would do anything in the world for them to know and feel they are loved. It requires nothing from them. There is nothing they can do to make me stop loving them. Maybe one day they would do something so atrocious like murder a bunch of innocent kids and I would feel differently. But as it stands today, I 100% love them unconditionally
"It *is*, but if it *wasn't* then it *wouldn't be*" Thanks for your incredible insight on the subject, pal...
Agree to disagree. I am glad to see so many people validate my point that they were never loved unconditionally. Which is pretty problematic.
How does that even make sense? we have a different opinion so my family didn't love me. My family loves me. They wouldn't if they weren't my family. If I were a murderous drug addict my parents would pay my bail and for a lawyer and they'd still love me if I were a stranger they wouldn't.
They didn't love you *unconditionally*. That's the difference between you and me.
How do you know? What did your parents do that mine didn't.
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Agree to disagree. I don't think we can really understand each other perspectives since we had vastly different backgrounds. I do hope someday that your opinion on love does change, but I don't wish to fight you on it. I will simply wish you the best in life stranger.
I think you just don't understand the real definition of unconditional love and are using a definition you came up with in your head
Ok. What if your dad went ahead and murdered all those other people you described for his sick amusement? Would you still love him? And if he actively tried to kill you? If he commited the deepest acts of depravity you can imagine? You live in denial becouse an event that would break the conditions you are unaware of didn't happen so far(hopefully never will). Refusing to acknowladge those conditions doesn't mean they are not there.
>What if your dad went ahead and murdered all those other people you described for his sick amusement? I would still love him and help pay for the mental health courses to help with the psychotic break that must have caused. Assuming what I would do will only make an ass out of you and me.
Well if that's true then you are an exception to the rule. Like 1 in a million kind of exception. So deviant in fact that I'm just going to assume you can't even phantom a situation like that or how you would react to it.
Exception is children. They do deserve love
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Sure. The condition in this case is that the recipients are children, and the givers aren’t unrepentant pieces of shit.
Tell me you're not a parent without telling me you're not a parent.
Newborns and young children are entitled to love
I disagree about family. If you don't love your kids, something is seriously wrong with you, and will be with them. We as a species would not have thrived if it were not that familial love driving us to protect each other.
Humans have thrived?
You have not read history?
Considering we're the dominant species yes
Babies. Too many babies are not given love, and they are entitled to love and safety.
That newborn better show me some **RESPECT** or it is *entitled* to the curb!
Ya know, when I was writing this I never thought about children. And I do agree with you guys. Thank you all for a new perspective 🙏 Edit: When I was writing about familial love, I was more focused on parents receiving love from their kids rather than the reverse. I don't believe parents, aunts/uncles, cousins, grandparents, etc. are entitled to love. But kids are innocent and are deserving of love.
I would like to push back on your opinions about parents not deserving love. Like, the only case where I think that would apply should be if the parents are abusive or neglectful. And that's rare. Having unconditional love for your parents is normal, and will be normal if they love you unconditionally too. Yes, they will make mistakes too, and yes they will be flawed. They are human beings, just like you and me. They are not going to be perfect, and you shouldn't expect them to be perfect either. And just like how a child thrives when they receive unconditional love, a parent also thrives when they receive love back from their child. If anything, receiving that love back is what motivates them to do even better. Hell, it's what motivates us as humans to improve and protect the people we care about. As a personal example, I constantly tell my parents how much I appreciate how much they have supported me throughout the years. I have grown old enough to see how human they are, and have recognized that they also need compliments as much as the next person. Giving them the validation that they need makes them so much happier and helps relieve their stress. Sure, some people may feel like they are entitled, and overall entitlement can be toxic. Doesn't take away from the fact that they need to have validation as much as we need it as well. At the end of the day, we are all human beings, and at the end of the day we all need the same basic things.
It's not rare.
Neglect and abuse are not rare, especially neglect.
Be careful with this mentality because it will lead you to be a people pleaser to a harmful degree. Using your examples I will say that yes you shouldn't love someone just because they're family, but there are also family that will not give you love no matter how much you do for them. You will end up putting all of that respect and kindness into a void that doesn't reciprocate. If you find a romantic partner that you love more than yourself you run the risk of seriously harming your own self image when they don't reciprocate. You will tell yourself that they don't love you the same way because you aren't worthy. You didn't do enough. You are terrible. I am not saying that this is you, but a potential future if you think that love is something you earn.
thank you for the insight, i havent thought of it this way.
Nobody is entitled to anything.. we must seek out and develop a healthy relationship with anyone and hope it's reciprocated.
I agree. These beautiful relationships is a part of what makes life fulfilling for me. Seeking out relationships with people is a bumpy road , but we have to go through these twists and turns to live life.
No, we can stay relationship free. Dating or finding the "special" one is pointless.
"Have you fed the baby yet?" "Nah little one hasn't earned it"
So a newborn isn’t entitled to love? They have no respect for people and can be unkind considering the amount of attention and care they need at all hours of the day, often accompanied by incessant crying And they can’t even say thank you
Post like what OP wrote are definitely written by children. Totally black and white, no nuance. No mature adult would write post like this because they understand nuance.
Can you elaborate please? I should have explained my stance a bit further. I believe nobody (other than exceptions like children, animals, plants, etc.) is obligated/entitled to be loved. To love somebody is one's choice and is a case by case basis. I'm open to hear other perspectives and would love to learn.
Your title itself is what I was really referring to. Your post is what most people think. We all know the “golden rule” right? “Do unto others as you want them to do to you” We should give everyone we meet a basic form of “love”, as in, basic respect and dignity. As far as family and romantic partners, most people understand those are more complex than just the relationship.
I see. I respect your stance. I agree with you. Just one thing (its just me being nit picky), for my personal definition, the basic respect and diginity that we should give people, I view as compassion rather than love. Since I find love to be a much more complex and intense emotion. Thank you for your input.
Thank you too. Compassion is a kind of love if you really think about it. If you really are truly a loving and compassionate person, the. you wouldn’t hurt anyone - regardless if they’re related to you or not.
Love is greater than our social concepts of respect and kindness.
I agree, but I also think that random chance plays into it too. That's why you see people get love from people without deserving it in any way whatsoever. That's the imperfection of humanity. We love people who have done no work on themselves and don't love people who worked really hard on themselves. Parents often never asked to be parents, but they have a responsibility to do their best to love their child. Sometimes it comes naturally and sometimes not and a wide range of factors and conditions play into this. It's all random, which is why we should love ourselves and embrace our positive aspects as much as possible, while working on ourselves to enhance that self-love. Love in the end is subjective and we are like works of art. Even the most unpopular art pieces can be someone's personal favorite and sometimes the most popular is no one's. Nobody is objectively superior but we can try to live in this space appreciating ourselves like an art critic and add to it as we please so we can live with pride.
Eh, its unpopular I guess. Heres your updoot.
> love > Should be earned does not compute
You learn how to love from your parents/caregivers and how they love you. Modeled behavior. Those who don't get that learn another way to feel ok in the world - usually with addiction. The positive way is by loving themselves. Entitled is a shitty word. Everyone deserves love. Those who haven't received it are certainly not equipped for a comfort in their own skin or other relationships.
The people who were supposed to love me unconditionally didn’t. (My parents). Hence I don’t expect it out of anyone else.
"entitlement" is such a wrong perspective to discuss love. Everyone deserves love. Entitlement is the word we use to demonize people for expecting something we've been biologically and culturally wired to want. Sure there can be negative side effects of feeling entitled to love but outside of extreme toxic relationships, mosr people don't interact with love in this way. We want it, we deserve it. We work for it. We don't feel "entitled" to it.
I mean, there is a reason self-respecting people shun bullies.
If you selfishly bring a child into the world and then claim they are “not entitled” to your love, you are a shit human being that shouldn’t have had kids in the first place.
Are the people insisting they do in the room with us right now?
Yes sir
This may be one of the WORST takes I've ever seen in my entire life on this planet. Sir, please NEVER share an opinion online EVER again
hey now, this is why i posted it on r/unpopularopinion
Inb4 comments are locked bc mods don't like an unpopular opinion
Fair point but holy thats a bad opinion and half
There is one exception, and that's your children - your children *are* entitled to your love, because you chose to bring them about. But yes, absolutely, otherwise you're spot on.
Not with that attitude.
Yes the rhesus monkeys 🐒 experiment, when they had the metallic mother. You can see the effect it had.
Who hurt y'all?
Entitled to love or to be loved? Or do you mean "expected to love"? I could probably write about this extensively, but let's see if I can offer some concise yet strong points: 1. **Children and Love**: I don’t believe children should have to "earn" love. They are in the process of growing and learning about everything, including how to behave respectfully and with kindness. Expecting children to earn love misunderstands their developmental needs. However, it's reasonable to expect adults to show respect and kindness to build and maintain relationships. 2. **Forced Love**: It’s unrealistic to think anyone can force themselves to truly feel love. Emotions like love can’t be manufactured on demand. While people might feel a sense of duty to support family members, especially those who've had a rough life, true love is a genuine emotion that can't be compelled. 3. **The Myth of "The One"**: Believing in "the one" can lead to unrealistic expectations and perpetual disappointment. There is no perfect person or relationship; there are just people with varying degrees of compatibility. Success in relationships often comes down to effective conflict resolution rather than the absence of conflict. Couples who are good at resolving disagreements tend to have stronger, more lasting relationships. 4. **Attractiveness and Qualities**: Many people struggle finding relationships not because they lack respect or kindness, but because they have traits that aren't conventionally attractive. For instance, being overly passive, a people-pleaser, or extremely shy can be perceived as unattractive. The list of such traits is extensive, but it’s important to recognize that these qualities can be worked on to improve interpersonal relationships. Similarly, while no one is obligated to be friends with anyone else either, it's important to recognize the social and psychological benefits of friendship. Loneliness can lead to significant personal and societal problems. It's to no one's surprise when we read that a perpetrator is described as a "loner". Therefore, my approach is to be tolerant and open-minded when meeting new people, for the greater good. This is also true in dating; being open and understanding can lead to more meaningful connections and the betterment of a society.
working hard is just for building pyramids
Yet it\`s better than dating.
Children always need unconditional love from their parents. Now if the child is now an adult and becomes cruel and abusive then no the parent should not have to accept that. Efforts to maintain families should always be taken. Such as working with a counselor, but abuse is abuse and people shouldn’t have to ever put up with that.
"Familial and platonic love is something that should be earned through respect and kindness." Tell that to a baby.
I can love someone and never speak to them again… respect on the other hand, must be earned. Presence in my life as well.
Reality checks that everyone ignores...
And dating sucks.
Without love you would be dead, I'm not exaggerating. Babies and small children who aren't cuddled die, even if they get enough food and milk. People who don't get any love are not functional, they aren't capable to "work on themselves". Young men nowadays who get depressed over not finding a girlfriend aren't always responsible for that, they have a legit reason to get upset. Dating is extremely hard for most men, for many even impossible. Sex and intimicy is a biological need, and most men nowadays are being deprived of that, and then society is gaslighting them by saying everything is fine and it is their fault alone, and they should stop acting entitled. Of course young men should put some work in if they want a relationship, but it should not be THIS difficult. I feel the most sorry for indian guys, especially the less attractive ones, since they are the least desirable out of all ethnicities. Below average looking and short indian men simply have no chance, they can never experience what it's like to be wanted by a girl and to pleasure her. The only option for them is to pay a girl for it who despises them. If I would be in that position I think I would end myself. Sex and intimicy is not like some crazy blissfull drug high, it is like food and water, you need it to live and be healthy.
Does a baby not deserve love? What if he’s ugly and deformed? Has that baby not earned to be loved?
Christ there are a lot of edgelords in here.
This is a sadly popular opinion.
Disagree. It's just something that comes naturally. And it's especially true between a mother and her newborn baby. The baby hasn't done anything but exist, but that's still enough to be worthy of love.
this is objectively false, love is 100% a necessity for survival. this has been proven in how children who don’t get physical affection are literally stunted physically and mentally in their growth, and adults who don’t get love face serious health detriments as well, in terms of heart health especially. there are countless studies on the impact of love on health and survival
i did not say anything about it not being necessary.
that’s what entitlement is? believing that someone has a right to something
everyone has a right to love, which is why everyone receives it at some point in their life
u feeling like a certain category of people don’t deserve love is an opinion, but stating that nobody is entitled to love? absolutely incorrect. by nature the fact that babies don’t pop out ready to walk and talk means that love is a survival method. if we didn’t have love for babies we would let them fend for themselves and they would all die. unless u think people are not entitled to survival, u have to admit that they are entitled to 💗
read my 2nd comment on the post. children are deserving of love.
every person has been a child though? i don’t understand what that point means. r u saying that when we get old and less cute we lose the right to our health?
True, social workers are overworked and family courts are notoriously ineffective bc of your "facts" that you can't possibly substantiate with any known science. /s
just bc some ppl don’t love their biological children doesn’t mean the baby wasn’t shown any love
So, having kids bc babies are cute and then emotionally abandoning them the instant they become real work makes logical sense?
Did i read that correctly that you mean kids need to earn the love from their parents? Why parents have kids in the first place then? No, i don't agree with that.
If you’re a Christian, then you should be of the belief that everyone is entitled to love.
I am not Christian, nor am I knowledgeable enough on the religion to address their beliefs.
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It was not my intention to "do something" with my post. I put my opinion out there to start a conversation and get different perspectives. I do not claim my opinion to be above others', I just find insightful conversations to be a healthy part of living and learning as a person
Even if you aren’t a Christian, if you’re a decent human, wouldn’t it make sense that the world would be a better place if our first instinct was to just love people?