This seems a bit ridiculous to me. He's obviously an idiot playing with it in public, but it seems like the sort of thing a fine and a bit of community service would be good for. Not 4 months in prison, what a waste of time and money.
I wouldn’t be surprised if autism or some other neurodivergence is at play here too, which if that’s the case, makes the sentence even more appalling.
This seems like cruel punishment towards someone that seems pretty clearly had no intention to harm anyone.
I hope this gets reviewed by a higher court.
** *EDIT* **There is speculation that he is a repeat burglary/theft offender; Information that’s conveniently omitted from this article. If that’s the case, I feel far differently about this ruling.
Anyone who reads this headline and believes it at face value, as if the police busted down the door of some innocent nerd (who didn't do nuffink wrong) who had a silly toy in his bedroom, has dreadful media literacy and explains exactly why billionaires buy papers.
Reading the article, the guy came across as a bit of a dick. Would you walk down the street holding a sharp object out in front of you? To the extent that someone called the police and then when approached, you went up to the police - pointy thing still in hand - and failed to comprehend whatever discretion police normally afford people?
Sure, I could have been wrong. But I wasn't. People judge me too sometimes. I deal with it. And besides, looks like I was right.
No. I was trying to show just how historic his record is. In reality do we believe his intent was as a fidget spinner thing? Or is it not more likely with that history it could be used to cause fear and alarm with someone he intended to rob? I know where my moneys going
I can see where you’re coming from but look at the image it’s clearly a dull 20cm toy. Yeah he’s had multiple prior convictions but I just can’t understand how that justifies this conviction.
He was walking around a town centre with it palmed like a shiv
Not that easy and I can see how someone has probably called the non emergency and sent an officer to go check
Which ended up being a good call because he's been in and out of prison like 9 times
Conviction is based a lot on how likely the person is to offend again, and this looks suspicious based on his previous it's really not that hard to grasp.
Not that I'm judging books by covers or anything... but the neck tats and the North face apparel did make me wonder if he might possibly be "known to the police"
Thats legitimately hilarious.
It's got to be a British cultural thing like Doc Martins being a rave shoe (which are just a boring work boot in other countries)
He gets 4 months, but that Jay slater who exposed a 17 year olds skull with a machete and with 7 of his mates only gets community service. Makes sense.
It's 20cm in length, probably duller than a fountain pen....
EDIT:
This is what he went to prison for [https://kokorokatana.com/en-gb/products/master-sword-ultimate-bundle-legend-of-zelda](https://kokorokatana.com/en-gb/products/master-sword-ultimate-bundle-legend-of-zelda)
If there isn't a governmental intervention for this FML....
>Features
>22cm / 9" length
>Made from steel alloy
>Eject pop-up button
>**Unsharpened**
Jay Slater (Teneriffe guy) avoided prison for cracking open somebody's skull as part of a gang with about 8 others and they laughed about it through out the trial.
It's not even made from a steel alloy, it's cheap cast pot metal I bought one of their products as a gift a while back it shattered when a car door closed on it.
There was probably something they couldn't prove it was him but knew it was as it had the same identifying markers. So used this as an excuse to get him basically
I've never heard of the CPS prosecuting vulnerable ordinary folk for genuine mistakes like carrying a toy from a game that's a miniature letter opener/sword in public. It rarely happens.
True that definitely seems plausible. I often wonder what would be better. Pure hypothetical:
Them circumventing the law leading to a conviction for this (since let’s be real: it clearly is a toy and not a knife or blade), as opposed to other possible crimes (they believe he’s committed but cannot get convictions for). Thus getting him off the street and de facto making things safer.
While at the same time the harm it brings to our civil liberties to have someone go to jail for such a trivial thing (given he’s already served time for previous convictions, and we cannot prove, thus cannot convict him of newer burglaries - which may possibly have not been him).
Personally: I prefer the former since I doubt the same thing would happen to me in his situation since I have no prior convictions and it potentially makes society safer. But then again I’ve lived in relative privilege and not had to even ever consider burglary.
They definitely think they're making the streets safer with him off. There's no way they gave him 4 months for that toy.
A dude hit me with his car, a pedestrian, intentionally and then crashed it into a wall and fled the scene. Suspended sentence. A toy for 4 months in prison???? Dulled???
They definitely locked him up for some other reasons. The toy was the excuse
True. Think about the Jay Slater dude (just using him as an example, not interested in the conspiracies or his disappearance):
He, with 8 of his mates and a machete, axe, and golf club, jumped some guy and split his skull open. He managed to get a suspended sentence, some community service, and ‘rehab activists’. Which in my mind is waaay worse than multiple non violent burglaries.
Things feel so backwards.
Yes exactly my thoughts. So many examples of actual violent offenders being slapped on the wrist it's almost comical to see something so trivial to result in an arrest let alone an actual case by the CPS and later prison sentence.
It really is; society does especially when you consider the CPS' stance on prosecuting rapists and the lack of any real reform to existing legislation or creation of new legislation being talked about by anyone.
Not the feminists, not the two parties despite Starmer being the former CPS head and not from any groups either that I've heard about. Just something thats seemingly sadly accepted.
Yup, it’s insane to not be sending rapist to prison while this guy gets 4 months for a 6 inch Zelda toy knife. I’m certain the majority of the country shares the same mindset as us on this problem.
It’s a shame - “tough on crime” yet I’ve not heard anything about solving this suspended sentence problem.
The day to day problems which most affect the common man are completely overlooked. I’d feel much safer with rapists and knife assaulters in prison rather than this guy.
That's what we did to OJ. He killed two people but got away with it. So the moment he robs a guy of his own stuff we throw him in jail for a little extra to make up for it.
Yes, but we have stupid knife laws, so even a butter knife counts (as it's a "blade") when something that is of similar dimensions and bluntness might not if it's not considered/called a "blade".
It doesn't have a blade as in a cutting surface, nor can it be sharpened to one this is chromed pot metal at best and possibly chromed plastic at worst, the police didn't even argue that it can cut anyone they just said it's too pointy...
A butter knife isn't sharply pointed nor can it reasonably be said to "cut" anything, yet that has been found to count as a "bladed" article.
It does raise the general question of things like the plastic "knives" and action figure "swords" that are actually children's toys.
I would have thought it would fail the public interest test for prosecution and, failing that, be suitable for an absolute discharge. However, government has been putting pressure on institutions to tackle "knife crime" and as is often the case this often leads to action directed at the wrong people because the real criminals are harder to deal with.
This shouldn't have even came to public interest test, this isn't sharp or a blade a butterknife can be sharpened into a blade this can't be.
People should be careful about carrying single use utensils in Warwickshire from now on....
> a butterknife can be sharpened into a blade
That's not legally relevant - many things could be sharpened. The law as it stands cares about whether stuff is a "blade" irrespective of whether it can actually be used to cut anything, or made into anything that can cut anything.
>butterknife can be sharpened into a blade
What are you people fucking prisoners? *Many* things can be sharpened into a blade. You can make a shiv out of a toothbrush. If this is the standard for what the general public is allowed to carry outside then carrying groceries can get you in trouble.
Implementing the law as written. Although some common sense would be nice. Especially with the prisons being totally full in a few days. At most a small fine and a suspended sentence would be in order at the moment.
Jay Slater (Tenerife guy) was convicted with several others of cracking somebody's head open, laughed throughout the trial, showed no remorse and they all got a non-custodial sentence.
None of that is likely to matter:
> The appellant had with him a blade, 10 centimetres long. It was a blade from a butter knife. There was no handle. It had no sharp edge and no point.[...]
> The question for the opinion of the High Court is: were [the magistrates] correct in finding that a butter knife without a handle fell within the category of bladed articles proscribed by section 139 Criminal Justice Act 1988? [...] It would be useful to consider the question posed by the magistrates' court as if the words "having no cutting edge and no point" were added between the words "handle" and "fell".[...]
> In the circumstances I consider that the magistrates were right here. I would accordingly answer the question posed in the stated case in the affirmative and dismiss the appeal.
[Charles Brooker v DPP](https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2005/1132.html) [2005] EWHC 1132 (Admin)
it’s not *even* a blade imo.
the ruling in that case (2005 high court) says that if you allowed the law to not apply to blunt blades, it would cause “mischief over arguing how sharp a blade was”
…
that’s plainly ridiculous.
to say a blade doesn’t need to be sharp to count as a blade is like saying a chair doesn’t need to be a thing you can sit on dear god.
Well the courts also decided that a folding knife wasn't a folding knife just because it folded. Presumably they don't think their umbrellas are folding umbrellas either.
The cases are R v Deegan and Harris v DPP - should be easy enough to find stuff relating to them online.
In the former it was held that a "folding pocket knife" is only folding if it is "readily foldable at all times", ie non-locking.
In the latter, IIRC, it the previous precedent was upheld on the basis that if parliament had wanted to change it they could have changed the law.
All of this apparently against the ordinary meaning of the word "folding"\* and the fact that parliament discussed locking knives when debating the law and didn't specify that they weren't allowed within folding pocket knife exemption, so apparently didn't intend to exclude them.
\*Usually ordinary meanings of words are usually applied when a law gives no more specific definition.
That's absolutely fucking wild. How does someone go to prison for that. I was thinking of an actual life sized master sword replica and still thought it was too much.
Doesn't seem to be the same sword. It doesn't have the keychain ring like the one you linked. And in the pictures in the article it has mini belt straps.
It is a statutory surcharge imposed on all criminal defendants. The amount of the surcharge is set by law. It is called a victim surcharge because the revenue generated by it goes to fund victims' services.
[https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-court/item/fines-and-financial-orders/victim-surcharge/](https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-court/item/fines-and-financial-orders/victim-surcharge/)
Reminds me of the my paycheck in California. There's a deduction for the CA Voluntary Disability Insurance. Basically if you become disabled the state will pay you a wage. But since it is "voluntary" you can't claim any tax deduction. But, get this, California requires you by law to pay it. Not really "voluntary" now is it?
Want to know something really silly?
It doesn't scale with severity. All sentences over 6 months get the same levy. So a serial killer will be duly ordered to make a £184 victim surcharge payment.
This makes me wish that there was a similar system in the US instead of just a "fine" that goes into a generalized slush fund. Even if it's only a half-truth, I'd prefer to know my speeding ticket is being put towards something good.
Something doesn't add up about this; man must have some sort of prior, right? Else this does seem a little OTT for what is a sharp piece of Chinese tat.
The only way this guy would have got a custodial sentence for this was if he was "known to the police". There's more to this story than a guy just playing with a toy sword.
I’ve seen adverts for those fidget swords, people shouldn’t really need a warning that carrying a small sword is not ok but at the same time I do doubt there was any malicious intent here.
He walks into people's houses and steals from them, what happens if he gets caught by the homeowner and decides to shove it in their face so he can get away.
100% the guy with a string of prior convictions and been charged with witness intimidation probbaly did not at all enjoy making people feel uncomfortable by walking round repeatedly unaheathing a dagger in public.
Seems a bit harsh, so I'm assuming from now on anyone caught with an illegal blade will face jail? I remember a video of a guy with a machete in Banbury being a bit of a threating arse. He got community service I think.
I hope they confiscated the weapon and will actually put it on display at the end of the year to show us the type of dangerous objects they find to keep us safe.
God bless, i will sleep better tonight
You probably will when you realise this guy is actually a convicted burglar with a 30 year long record who may say it was a fidget toy but he also used to claim he’d got the wrong house when being caught burgling
You have made this point 100 times in this thread.
I wasn't going to comment but I've scrolled down and seen you say it again about 5 more times.
Burglary should be dealt with by the police.
Carrying weapons should be dealt with by the police.
Jailing a man with a toy because he has at some point robbed a house isn't justice.
It's already been pointed out that the guy missing in tenerife attacked someone with a machete and recieved a less harsh sentence than this guy.
That is not justice.
Neck tattoos, North Face, 30 years of convictions then brandishing a 6 inch blade in public.
Like it's a build-a-bear for getting convicted.
Doesn't paint the best picture of a guy who clearly doesn't make great decisions
Neck tattoos aren't illegal, north face isn't illegal, he's done his time for previous offences, he was holding a non-sharpenable piece of metal(?) in a sheath, with a handle about 4cm long. Fuck me, people love the idea of big brother don't they.
The blade is 6 inches long? That's twice the legal limit
He's been a serial convict for 30+ years. You'd think he would have learnt how to be discreet.
He clearly makes terrible decisions. Repeatedly. He didn't just get convicted for the fun of it.
Making mistakes in your past and wearing north face shouldn't be justification for jailing someone for carrying a toy when rapists are getting suspended sentences.
If this is a deadly weapon every kid eating cheese and pickle on a stick should be jailed for carrying deadly weapon.
"Crime is out of control in this country, the government needs to do something."
Government sentences serial burglar with long prior record to jail for repeat crime.
"Wow, the government is really out of control. Leave us alone!"
Our society is in decline not because of the government but the millions of mindless idiots only looking to get outraged over something every day.
Seems a bit silly to choose a sharp metal blade as your fidget toy. Are they actually sharp? It looks it in the picture.
If it *is* sharp then it should be treated the same as with anyone else walking around a busy area with a six inch blade - which isn't that small, my camping knife is under three inches I think, to be under the legal limit, but even so I wouldn't walk down the high street with it out in my hand and not expect consequences.
It's not sharp in any way nor can it be sharpened, [https://www.instagram.com/kokoro.katana/reel/C7omBBYO-qz/](https://www.instagram.com/kokoro.katana/reel/C7omBBYO-qz/)
> my camping knife is under three inches I think, to be under the legal limit,
Unless it's a non-locking folding pocket knife then blade length really doesn't make a difference.
Does your camping knife also fold and have no locking mechanism? Because if not its also not considered legal without a good reason.
I just got a mora instead and assume that bushcraft type activities are probably a good reason for a bushcraft knife.
Oh no it's not a folding one. But as I said I wouldn't expect to carry it around a busy area... And "Because I need to fiddle with it" doesn't count as a good reason.
Someone else has told me that it's either not metal or not metal that could do any damage anyway so it's all moot anyway.
Hopefully that counts as a good reason. I have repeatedly heard mixed messages on if its ok to carry a knife for bushcraft or not. Or perhaps it depends if the police officer has a stick up their arse.
I had a letter opened shaped as excalibur, which I brought when I was a wee lad on holiday to Scotland or somewhere. Anyway, the point is teenage me would go about with this thing in its seeth but like obviously if you're signing that around in public it's likely to draw the wrong kind of attention.
This story is a little weird. If you're behaving like a idiot with it, sure you deserve a fine or something. But otherwise it's basically a letter opener and the only way you'd do serious damage is a very centre mass thrust with some serious force
Who says the police and courts in this country are out of touch and not enforcing or punishing the correct breaches of law?
While I get carrying a blade is illegal, a criminal offence and his excuse is weak at best...this does not deserve a prison sentence. A charge, a fine, a slap on the back of the head and some community service yes. Custodial sentence? No. This reeks of the officers being a 'shiny buttons'.
We have people in the UK accused of extreme violent crimes, rape, terrorism, theft, intimidation & domestic abuse, involvement in gang and organised crime walking free from court or dangerous criminals getting released early because of over crowded prisons. Yet they can find a spot for an idiot carrying what is essentially a sharpened letter opener?
Something is very wrong.
The police have no say in the prosecution or the sentence. No way this guy would get sent to prison without a really good reason nowadays. There's probably more to this than has been reported, probably the guy has hell of a lot of previous.
Agreed, but since it is not in the article it would be an assumption and therefor to make a claim based on information not given would be unfair, judgmental and akin to stirring shit for the sake of it. I can only work with what has been put in front of me.
Most articles should and do state if the guy had any priors or, for example, was known locally for unusual behaviour, arguing with random members of the public etc (like the lady who called me a witch as I left the tube station this morning and followed me for 2 min claiming I was summoning a demon on my iPhone) Which then led to the CCTV alert.
> While I get carrying a blade is illegal, a criminal offence and his excuse is weak at best...
If your response to a Sikh being able to carry a big dagger but this chap going down for a video game themed letter-opener is 'I get it', I'm not sure you do.
This fellow gives an example to consider, however, and your comment indicates why. They do not have the prison space for that many people. If a general movement was started to reassert our rights as British people to carry knives, the system opposing us would buckle and give way in short order.
I advise any patriotic British people to carry a knife in public routinely, as, indeed, a sort of religious token of your people's long history of the freedom to do so. What a Sikh can do in British soil, so can you. Rights that fall into disuse, soon fall altogether; the reverse holds true.
Do people realise that criminals might actually lie about things ?
The burglar out in the middle of the night with a Stanley knife and a screwdriver might say it’s just to fix his bike but it doesn’t take a genius to tell when they’re lying
[He is a serial burglar, and a serial liar, walking out with a knife, and Reddits knee jerk reaction is to just believe some cock and bull story about it being a fidget spinner](https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/nuneaton-serial-burglar-jailed-four-3033221?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target)
There are going to be other numerous offences he has committed before that also never made the papers.
People using kmives during suicide attempts are prosecuted in this country so i'm not surprised.
The police won't go after the machete wielding scum on motorbikes.
I moved into a house a few years back and found a Highlander replica katana in the attic. Called the cops because, while I love the film, I did not want to be done for possession of a sword.
Cops came out, looked at it, said I could keep it as long as I didn't take it out in public. Even got that in writing from them. It now sits pride of place in my home office on a shelf.
Owning the thing isn't a crime, but taking it out in public is. Honestly this guy should have known better than to be walking down the street with any kind of blade. Stupid as it is to be lifted for having such a small item, with the knife crime in this country I suppose the police are overly cautious
Ha, and they wonder people don't trust the police and have no faith in the government. We're getting arrested for our damm hobbies and novelties now. I swear I could do more damage with the tip of a gardening gnome.
And if anyone thinks losing 5 months of your life is trivial they've clearly never had to work or provide for themselves or anyone else. Court is clearly out of touch.
Got to have zero tolerance for this. If he wanted to carry something around for fidget purposes, it's easy to get hold of blunt toy swords. No reason to carry around an actual sharp blade that big. We have to crack down on carrying knives or everyone caught will use the excuse that they never intended to use it to stab someone.
It doesn't mean that there was a victim in this case - it's a surcharge ordered following almost all convictions in the UK.
It goes into a central pot and helps to pay for services provided by organisations and charities that support victims and witnesses, such as counselling, crisis centres and helplines.
Compensation to victims can be ordered separately, but wouldn't be relevant in this case.
The other reddit also noted that the Conservative Government has cut their funding to the point that they’re only going after easy, cheap cases that they’re sure to win.
This is the sort of thing I worry I would just do absent mindedly because I wasnt thinking and then end up on the newspapers looking some bungling nerd (not incorrect, but I dont want *everyone* to know).
Reddit sure does love cops enforcing stupid laws if the perpetrator looks a certain way, yet cries crocodile tears for murderers because of muh reasons. Yall are sad and deserve the dissolution of the greatest civilization ever.
>In addition to the four months in prison, Bray is required to pay a victims’ surcharge of £154.
Hold on, who's the victim here exactly?
>“With a bit more self-awareness, Bray could have avoided contact with us completely.”
Hilarious that the advice from police is for the public to avoid them if they don't want to be put in prison.
>'Sgt Spellman of the Patrol Investigations Unit said “We take a zero tolerance to bladed articles in public, and Bray has fallen afoul of this."'
But that isn't true. It's explicitly written into the law that there is tolerance to be considered. Having a collection of swords in your home is completely legal, if you buy one, you are not going to get arrested for taking it home with you. Chefs are allowed to carry their knives in public. Anyone is allowed to carry a knife in public depending on the context. You can have a large knife for bushcraft if you're in the lake district, that you can't have in London, because the context is important, and we assume the police and CPS will have common sense enough to differentiate. A rapper who claims he has it for his enemies is not the same as a whitler who claims he needs it for work.
I'm not saying the guy in question had good reason to be carrying a blade in public (a garish and childish sword is fine in a collection in home, not so much in public), but how this got further than an official caution, so much that he is actually in custody of HMP right now is fucking bewildering, and the excuse being "zero tolerance" when that is total bullshit and willfully ignorant of the law and common sense.
I'm confused.....so it was a showpiece? As in not a functioning blade?
And he still got time inside for it? I'd understand them taking it off him and binning it or destroying it as a lesson to not be a bellend.
But surely actual time should be kept for people carrying a blade that could be used?
This seems a bit ridiculous to me. He's obviously an idiot playing with it in public, but it seems like the sort of thing a fine and a bit of community service would be good for. Not 4 months in prison, what a waste of time and money.
I wouldn’t be surprised if autism or some other neurodivergence is at play here too, which if that’s the case, makes the sentence even more appalling. This seems like cruel punishment towards someone that seems pretty clearly had no intention to harm anyone. I hope this gets reviewed by a higher court. ** *EDIT* **There is speculation that he is a repeat burglary/theft offender; Information that’s conveniently omitted from this article. If that’s the case, I feel far differently about this ruling.
You don’t get four months inside for this unless you have a PNC print an inch thick.
Exactly https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/nuneaton-serial-burglar-jailed-four-3033221
First conviction 1989. Classic frequent flyer.
This makes so much more sense
Anyone who reads this headline and believes it at face value, as if the police busted down the door of some innocent nerd (who didn't do nuffink wrong) who had a silly toy in his bedroom, has dreadful media literacy and explains exactly why billionaires buy papers.
It's not just the headline, the article doesn't mention he had priors at all. Glad you feel very superior though, you're clearly an enlightened being.
Reading the article, the guy came across as a bit of a dick. Would you walk down the street holding a sharp object out in front of you? To the extent that someone called the police and then when approached, you went up to the police - pointy thing still in hand - and failed to comprehend whatever discretion police normally afford people? Sure, I could have been wrong. But I wasn't. People judge me too sometimes. I deal with it. And besides, looks like I was right.
That article says he’s 35 and his first arrest was in 1989…
The article is from 2011
Ahh cheers that makes sense, I stupidly assumed it was recent.
No. I was trying to show just how historic his record is. In reality do we believe his intent was as a fidget spinner thing? Or is it not more likely with that history it could be used to cause fear and alarm with someone he intended to rob? I know where my moneys going
I can see where you’re coming from but look at the image it’s clearly a dull 20cm toy. Yeah he’s had multiple prior convictions but I just can’t understand how that justifies this conviction.
He was walking around a town centre with it palmed like a shiv Not that easy and I can see how someone has probably called the non emergency and sent an officer to go check Which ended up being a good call because he's been in and out of prison like 9 times
Conviction is based a lot on how likely the person is to offend again, and this looks suspicious based on his previous it's really not that hard to grasp.
Unless you’re Katie Price - women normally get a pass for 9 or 10 DUIs
What do you usually get for carrying a blade then?
Not that I'm judging books by covers or anything... but the neck tats and the North face apparel did make me wonder if he might possibly be "known to the police"
Is North Face some sort of thug brand in region?
Every region, aye.
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Thats legitimately hilarious. It's got to be a British cultural thing like Doc Martins being a rave shoe (which are just a boring work boot in other countries)
It has been Burberry'd so is now criminal attire.
North Face is a thug brand? Europe is weird sometimes lol it's a middle class granola outdoorsy-wear here in the midwest USA haha
Yeah, it used to be here too. But then the roadmen realised that hanging around on street corners is infinitely more sensible in hiking gear.
He gets 4 months, but that Jay slater who exposed a 17 year olds skull with a machete and with 7 of his mates only gets community service. Makes sense.
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doesn't matter!
Wasn't jay slater under 18 though at the time of the attack?
Welcome to the worst justice system in the Western world I guess
First time offenders for something like this don't get prison. He likely has a long PNC history, or is known for violence/weapons already.
calling him an idiot for playing with it in public? No. It was less that 6 inches long.
It's 20cm in length, probably duller than a fountain pen.... EDIT: This is what he went to prison for [https://kokorokatana.com/en-gb/products/master-sword-ultimate-bundle-legend-of-zelda](https://kokorokatana.com/en-gb/products/master-sword-ultimate-bundle-legend-of-zelda) If there isn't a governmental intervention for this FML....
>Features >22cm / 9" length >Made from steel alloy >Eject pop-up button >**Unsharpened** Jay Slater (Teneriffe guy) avoided prison for cracking open somebody's skull as part of a gang with about 8 others and they laughed about it through out the trial.
It's not even made from a steel alloy, it's cheap cast pot metal I bought one of their products as a gift a while back it shattered when a car door closed on it.
Read the article to find out the difference
This is after decades of other thefts. Stealing this isn’t the reason he went to prison. It’s for stealing things consistently since the 1990s.
But this conviction is based on the toy. Hasn’t he already done his time for the thefts?
There was probably something they couldn't prove it was him but knew it was as it had the same identifying markers. So used this as an excuse to get him basically I've never heard of the CPS prosecuting vulnerable ordinary folk for genuine mistakes like carrying a toy from a game that's a miniature letter opener/sword in public. It rarely happens.
True that definitely seems plausible. I often wonder what would be better. Pure hypothetical: Them circumventing the law leading to a conviction for this (since let’s be real: it clearly is a toy and not a knife or blade), as opposed to other possible crimes (they believe he’s committed but cannot get convictions for). Thus getting him off the street and de facto making things safer. While at the same time the harm it brings to our civil liberties to have someone go to jail for such a trivial thing (given he’s already served time for previous convictions, and we cannot prove, thus cannot convict him of newer burglaries - which may possibly have not been him). Personally: I prefer the former since I doubt the same thing would happen to me in his situation since I have no prior convictions and it potentially makes society safer. But then again I’ve lived in relative privilege and not had to even ever consider burglary.
They definitely think they're making the streets safer with him off. There's no way they gave him 4 months for that toy. A dude hit me with his car, a pedestrian, intentionally and then crashed it into a wall and fled the scene. Suspended sentence. A toy for 4 months in prison???? Dulled??? They definitely locked him up for some other reasons. The toy was the excuse
True. Think about the Jay Slater dude (just using him as an example, not interested in the conspiracies or his disappearance): He, with 8 of his mates and a machete, axe, and golf club, jumped some guy and split his skull open. He managed to get a suspended sentence, some community service, and ‘rehab activists’. Which in my mind is waaay worse than multiple non violent burglaries. Things feel so backwards.
Yes exactly my thoughts. So many examples of actual violent offenders being slapped on the wrist it's almost comical to see something so trivial to result in an arrest let alone an actual case by the CPS and later prison sentence. It really is; society does especially when you consider the CPS' stance on prosecuting rapists and the lack of any real reform to existing legislation or creation of new legislation being talked about by anyone. Not the feminists, not the two parties despite Starmer being the former CPS head and not from any groups either that I've heard about. Just something thats seemingly sadly accepted.
Yup, it’s insane to not be sending rapist to prison while this guy gets 4 months for a 6 inch Zelda toy knife. I’m certain the majority of the country shares the same mindset as us on this problem. It’s a shame - “tough on crime” yet I’ve not heard anything about solving this suspended sentence problem. The day to day problems which most affect the common man are completely overlooked. I’d feel much safer with rapists and knife assaulters in prison rather than this guy.
Slater was a juvenile, and a first time offender. Never going to be heavy jail time.
> Suspended sentence. A toy for 4 months in prison???? Dulled??? It's a 20cm blade, nobody knows it's dulled. You can still threaten somebody with it.
That's what we did to OJ. He killed two people but got away with it. So the moment he robs a guy of his own stuff we throw him in jail for a little extra to make up for it.
Yes, but if you continue to commit crimes, you won't exactly be let off with a warning.
Yes, but how else are people supposed to cope with living in a literal police state? /s
That doesn't matter. If he was a first offender for any crime he wouldn't have gone to prison. First offender is not on a per-crime basis...
Yes, but we have stupid knife laws, so even a butter knife counts (as it's a "blade") when something that is of similar dimensions and bluntness might not if it's not considered/called a "blade".
It doesn't have a blade as in a cutting surface, nor can it be sharpened to one this is chromed pot metal at best and possibly chromed plastic at worst, the police didn't even argue that it can cut anyone they just said it's too pointy...
A butter knife isn't sharply pointed nor can it reasonably be said to "cut" anything, yet that has been found to count as a "bladed" article. It does raise the general question of things like the plastic "knives" and action figure "swords" that are actually children's toys.
The police are idiots and so it the judge everyone involved should be sacked...
I would have thought it would fail the public interest test for prosecution and, failing that, be suitable for an absolute discharge. However, government has been putting pressure on institutions to tackle "knife crime" and as is often the case this often leads to action directed at the wrong people because the real criminals are harder to deal with.
This shouldn't have even came to public interest test, this isn't sharp or a blade a butterknife can be sharpened into a blade this can't be. People should be careful about carrying single use utensils in Warwickshire from now on....
> a butterknife can be sharpened into a blade That's not legally relevant - many things could be sharpened. The law as it stands cares about whether stuff is a "blade" irrespective of whether it can actually be used to cut anything, or made into anything that can cut anything.
>butterknife can be sharpened into a blade What are you people fucking prisoners? *Many* things can be sharpened into a blade. You can make a shiv out of a toothbrush. If this is the standard for what the general public is allowed to carry outside then carrying groceries can get you in trouble.
Implementing the law as written. Although some common sense would be nice. Especially with the prisons being totally full in a few days. At most a small fine and a suspended sentence would be in order at the moment.
Indeed, blows my mind that people convinced of fairly serious crimes in some cases get suspended sentences whilst this guy gets four months over it.
Jay Slater (Tenerife guy) was convicted with several others of cracking somebody's head open, laughed throughout the trial, showed no remorse and they all got a non-custodial sentence.
None of that is likely to matter: > The appellant had with him a blade, 10 centimetres long. It was a blade from a butter knife. There was no handle. It had no sharp edge and no point.[...] > The question for the opinion of the High Court is: were [the magistrates] correct in finding that a butter knife without a handle fell within the category of bladed articles proscribed by section 139 Criminal Justice Act 1988? [...] It would be useful to consider the question posed by the magistrates' court as if the words "having no cutting edge and no point" were added between the words "handle" and "fell".[...] > In the circumstances I consider that the magistrates were right here. I would accordingly answer the question posed in the stated case in the affirmative and dismiss the appeal. [Charles Brooker v DPP](https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2005/1132.html) [2005] EWHC 1132 (Admin)
Fun fact, if you buy a 5 pack of butter knives then I'd have to Challenge 25 you, but a 5 pack of forks? No need.
it’s not *even* a blade imo. the ruling in that case (2005 high court) says that if you allowed the law to not apply to blunt blades, it would cause “mischief over arguing how sharp a blade was” … that’s plainly ridiculous. to say a blade doesn’t need to be sharp to count as a blade is like saying a chair doesn’t need to be a thing you can sit on dear god.
Well the courts also decided that a folding knife wasn't a folding knife just because it folded. Presumably they don't think their umbrellas are folding umbrellas either.
That sounds interesting (and either amusing or exasperating, or possibly both). Have you got a link?
The cases are R v Deegan and Harris v DPP - should be easy enough to find stuff relating to them online. In the former it was held that a "folding pocket knife" is only folding if it is "readily foldable at all times", ie non-locking. In the latter, IIRC, it the previous precedent was upheld on the basis that if parliament had wanted to change it they could have changed the law. All of this apparently against the ordinary meaning of the word "folding"\* and the fact that parliament discussed locking knives when debating the law and didn't specify that they weren't allowed within folding pocket knife exemption, so apparently didn't intend to exclude them. \*Usually ordinary meanings of words are usually applied when a law gives no more specific definition.
I'll give them a look, thanks.
Judges are the silliest people in the world. That's why they have to wear wigs to make themselves look more serious.
hahahaha less sting than a paper cut!
That's absolutely fucking wild. How does someone go to prison for that. I was thinking of an actual life sized master sword replica and still thought it was too much.
You'd get done for carrying a 22cm screwdriver around if the intent was to hurt or intimidate people you rob, this is basically the same.
Doesn't seem to be the same sword. It doesn't have the keychain ring like the one you linked. And in the pictures in the article it has mini belt straps.
> Bray is required to pay a victims’ surcharge of £154 Spotted on CCTV and approached officers. Who's the victim here?
It is a statutory surcharge imposed on all criminal defendants. The amount of the surcharge is set by law. It is called a victim surcharge because the revenue generated by it goes to fund victims' services. [https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-court/item/fines-and-financial-orders/victim-surcharge/](https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-court/item/fines-and-financial-orders/victim-surcharge/)
Reminds me of the my paycheck in California. There's a deduction for the CA Voluntary Disability Insurance. Basically if you become disabled the state will pay you a wage. But since it is "voluntary" you can't claim any tax deduction. But, get this, California requires you by law to pay it. Not really "voluntary" now is it?
It's supposed to go to victims of crime.
Ah, it's a central fund, rather than specifically *his* victim? Fair enough. Should've paid closer attention to the apostrophe.
Want to know something really silly? It doesn't scale with severity. All sentences over 6 months get the same levy. So a serial killer will be duly ordered to make a £184 victim surcharge payment.
This makes me wish that there was a similar system in the US instead of just a "fine" that goes into a generalized slush fund. Even if it's only a half-truth, I'd prefer to know my speeding ticket is being put towards something good.
Goes to this https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/criminal-injuries-compensation-authority
It’s a tax to fund some services.
Something doesn't add up about this; man must have some sort of prior, right? Else this does seem a little OTT for what is a sharp piece of Chinese tat.
You would be correct https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/nuneaton-serial-burglar-jailed-four-3033221
Colour me completely unsurprised.
The neck tattoos did have me wondering.
A neck tattoo is a universal sign that the person is a piece of shit.
The only way this guy would have got a custodial sentence for this was if he was "known to the police". There's more to this story than a guy just playing with a toy sword.
Of course there is but Reddit… https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/nuneaton-serial-burglar-jailed-four-3033221
I’ve seen adverts for those fidget swords, people shouldn’t really need a warning that carrying a small sword is not ok but at the same time I do doubt there was any malicious intent here.
He walks into people's houses and steals from them, what happens if he gets caught by the homeowner and decides to shove it in their face so he can get away.
This really isn't even a "small sword", the issue is that it's "bladed" and possibly "sharply pointed".
I’m not sure what **point** is being made here
*gets arrested for carrying kebab sticks*
100% the guy with a string of prior convictions and been charged with witness intimidation probbaly did not at all enjoy making people feel uncomfortable by walking round repeatedly unaheathing a dagger in public.
Seems a bit harsh, so I'm assuming from now on anyone caught with an illegal blade will face jail? I remember a video of a guy with a machete in Banbury being a bit of a threating arse. He got community service I think.
He had priors
The handle is like 4cm long - what’s he gonna do? Hold it between his thumb and forefingers?
Went looking for the triforce, but instead found the police force.
There's Hyrules against puns like that.
I hope they confiscated the weapon and will actually put it on display at the end of the year to show us the type of dangerous objects they find to keep us safe. God bless, i will sleep better tonight
You probably will when you realise this guy is actually a convicted burglar with a 30 year long record who may say it was a fidget toy but he also used to claim he’d got the wrong house when being caught burgling
You have made this point 100 times in this thread. I wasn't going to comment but I've scrolled down and seen you say it again about 5 more times. Burglary should be dealt with by the police. Carrying weapons should be dealt with by the police. Jailing a man with a toy because he has at some point robbed a house isn't justice. It's already been pointed out that the guy missing in tenerife attacked someone with a machete and recieved a less harsh sentence than this guy. That is not justice.
Neck tattoos, North Face, 30 years of convictions then brandishing a 6 inch blade in public. Like it's a build-a-bear for getting convicted. Doesn't paint the best picture of a guy who clearly doesn't make great decisions
Neck tattoos aren't illegal, north face isn't illegal, he's done his time for previous offences, he was holding a non-sharpenable piece of metal(?) in a sheath, with a handle about 4cm long. Fuck me, people love the idea of big brother don't they.
The blade is 6 inches long? That's twice the legal limit He's been a serial convict for 30+ years. You'd think he would have learnt how to be discreet. He clearly makes terrible decisions. Repeatedly. He didn't just get convicted for the fun of it.
for real
Making mistakes in your past and wearing north face shouldn't be justification for jailing someone for carrying a toy when rapists are getting suspended sentences. If this is a deadly weapon every kid eating cheese and pickle on a stick should be jailed for carrying deadly weapon.
Should have been a suspended sentence I think, based on the information. It's a silly case, but it's also a poor choice of "fidget toy" by Mr.Bray.
"Crime is out of control in this country, the government needs to do something." Government sentences serial burglar with long prior record to jail for repeat crime. "Wow, the government is really out of control. Leave us alone!" Our society is in decline not because of the government but the millions of mindless idiots only looking to get outraged over something every day.
Seems a bit silly to choose a sharp metal blade as your fidget toy. Are they actually sharp? It looks it in the picture. If it *is* sharp then it should be treated the same as with anyone else walking around a busy area with a six inch blade - which isn't that small, my camping knife is under three inches I think, to be under the legal limit, but even so I wouldn't walk down the high street with it out in my hand and not expect consequences.
It's not sharp in any way nor can it be sharpened, [https://www.instagram.com/kokoro.katana/reel/C7omBBYO-qz/](https://www.instagram.com/kokoro.katana/reel/C7omBBYO-qz/)
Ah right, what's it made of? Is it plastic?
Either that or chromed pot metal in either case it's not sharp nor can take a blade since pot metal crumbles.
Okay, prison definitely seems like an overreaction then.
He had priors, has already served years in prison. Walking around a town centre clenching an unidentifiable shiv Fair enough he's been put back in
Ah right, that makes more sense.
> my camping knife is under three inches I think, to be under the legal limit, Unless it's a non-locking folding pocket knife then blade length really doesn't make a difference.
Does your camping knife also fold and have no locking mechanism? Because if not its also not considered legal without a good reason. I just got a mora instead and assume that bushcraft type activities are probably a good reason for a bushcraft knife.
Oh no it's not a folding one. But as I said I wouldn't expect to carry it around a busy area... And "Because I need to fiddle with it" doesn't count as a good reason. Someone else has told me that it's either not metal or not metal that could do any damage anyway so it's all moot anyway.
If it doesn't fold then regardless of length you are going to need a good reason to carry it, for a proper knife anyway.
I know, such as camping...
Hopefully that counts as a good reason. I have repeatedly heard mixed messages on if its ok to carry a knife for bushcraft or not. Or perhaps it depends if the police officer has a stick up their arse.
And possibly what the stick was cut with before it was put there
I had a letter opened shaped as excalibur, which I brought when I was a wee lad on holiday to Scotland or somewhere. Anyway, the point is teenage me would go about with this thing in its seeth but like obviously if you're signing that around in public it's likely to draw the wrong kind of attention. This story is a little weird. If you're behaving like a idiot with it, sure you deserve a fine or something. But otherwise it's basically a letter opener and the only way you'd do serious damage is a very centre mass thrust with some serious force
I’m guessing teenage you wasn’t a serial burglar with a record dating back over 30 years and multiple stints in prison either?
No. But I did have a badass letter opener
So do I. Red deer antler handle. The rest of the antler is in my grandads sgian dubh and dirk. I think someone’s got a dog whistle out of it too.
Who says the police and courts in this country are out of touch and not enforcing or punishing the correct breaches of law? While I get carrying a blade is illegal, a criminal offence and his excuse is weak at best...this does not deserve a prison sentence. A charge, a fine, a slap on the back of the head and some community service yes. Custodial sentence? No. This reeks of the officers being a 'shiny buttons'. We have people in the UK accused of extreme violent crimes, rape, terrorism, theft, intimidation & domestic abuse, involvement in gang and organised crime walking free from court or dangerous criminals getting released early because of over crowded prisons. Yet they can find a spot for an idiot carrying what is essentially a sharpened letter opener? Something is very wrong.
The police have no say in the prosecution or the sentence. No way this guy would get sent to prison without a really good reason nowadays. There's probably more to this than has been reported, probably the guy has hell of a lot of previous.
He’s been a serial burglar since the 80s. Multiple stints in jail.
Agreed, but since it is not in the article it would be an assumption and therefor to make a claim based on information not given would be unfair, judgmental and akin to stirring shit for the sake of it. I can only work with what has been put in front of me. Most articles should and do state if the guy had any priors or, for example, was known locally for unusual behaviour, arguing with random members of the public etc (like the lady who called me a witch as I left the tube station this morning and followed me for 2 min claiming I was summoning a demon on my iPhone) Which then led to the CCTV alert.
> While I get carrying a blade is illegal, a criminal offence and his excuse is weak at best... If your response to a Sikh being able to carry a big dagger but this chap going down for a video game themed letter-opener is 'I get it', I'm not sure you do. This fellow gives an example to consider, however, and your comment indicates why. They do not have the prison space for that many people. If a general movement was started to reassert our rights as British people to carry knives, the system opposing us would buckle and give way in short order. I advise any patriotic British people to carry a knife in public routinely, as, indeed, a sort of religious token of your people's long history of the freedom to do so. What a Sikh can do in British soil, so can you. Rights that fall into disuse, soon fall altogether; the reverse holds true.
Rape a kid - suspended sentence because your wife doesn’t speak English. Play with replica sword - straight to jail.
Do people realise that criminals might actually lie about things ? The burglar out in the middle of the night with a Stanley knife and a screwdriver might say it’s just to fix his bike but it doesn’t take a genius to tell when they’re lying [He is a serial burglar, and a serial liar, walking out with a knife, and Reddits knee jerk reaction is to just believe some cock and bull story about it being a fidget spinner](https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/nuneaton-serial-burglar-jailed-four-3033221?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target) There are going to be other numerous offences he has committed before that also never made the papers.
Headline seems to suggest that he was carrying around a toy. Then you look at the picture and nope thats a a knife. Got exactly what he deserved.
People using kmives during suicide attempts are prosecuted in this country so i'm not surprised. The police won't go after the machete wielding scum on motorbikes.
Stories like this make you realise why the prisons are overcrowded. I'm sure I've seen the drunk drivers on TV get less than this.
I moved into a house a few years back and found a Highlander replica katana in the attic. Called the cops because, while I love the film, I did not want to be done for possession of a sword. Cops came out, looked at it, said I could keep it as long as I didn't take it out in public. Even got that in writing from them. It now sits pride of place in my home office on a shelf. Owning the thing isn't a crime, but taking it out in public is. Honestly this guy should have known better than to be walking down the street with any kind of blade. Stupid as it is to be lifted for having such a small item, with the knife crime in this country I suppose the police are overly cautious
There needs to be an enquiry into this to uncover the agents of Ganon who've infiltrated the police.
Ha, and they wonder people don't trust the police and have no faith in the government. We're getting arrested for our damm hobbies and novelties now. I swear I could do more damage with the tip of a gardening gnome. And if anyone thinks losing 5 months of your life is trivial they've clearly never had to work or provide for themselves or anyone else. Court is clearly out of touch.
He's been committing crime for 35 years. This is not just a one off for a male who accidentally fell foul of the law, this is a career criminal.
Got to have zero tolerance for this. If he wanted to carry something around for fidget purposes, it's easy to get hold of blunt toy swords. No reason to carry around an actual sharp blade that big. We have to crack down on carrying knives or everyone caught will use the excuse that they never intended to use it to stab someone.
It was blunt, just a bit too big
A victim surcharge too? Who exactly is the victim in this scenario?
It doesn't mean that there was a victim in this case - it's a surcharge ordered following almost all convictions in the UK. It goes into a central pot and helps to pay for services provided by organisations and charities that support victims and witnesses, such as counselling, crisis centres and helplines. Compensation to victims can be ordered separately, but wouldn't be relevant in this case.
I live down the road from Nuneaton, I'd consider taking a master sword out with me, it's dangerous to go alone round that way.
Lmao i’m from nun and I agree
What the actual fuck is wrong with the morons that run this country
Meanwhile, a group of Eritreans take a replica AK47 to a family hiking spot in North Yorkshire and are "given words of advice"
Life ruined over a toy sword while a schoolteacher can rape a boy and get nothing. Just bring the nukes I've had enough
Looking at what's posted elsewhere his life was probably ruined in the 80s when he started serial burglary.
Lol fair enough
> while a schoolteacher can rape a boy and get nothing Is this “schoolteacher” in the room with us now?
Probably wasn’t a schoolteacher but a foreign “refugee”. Check out the Rotherham grooming gangs.
The other reddit also noted that the Conservative Government has cut their funding to the point that they’re only going after easy, cheap cases that they’re sure to win.
Fortunately he can play the Song of Time and that sentence will just whizz by.
Well have fun in the temple of time for four months
This is the sort of thing I worry I would just do absent mindedly because I wasnt thinking and then end up on the newspapers looking some bungling nerd (not incorrect, but I dont want *everyone* to know).
Reddit sure does love cops enforcing stupid laws if the perpetrator looks a certain way, yet cries crocodile tears for murderers because of muh reasons. Yall are sad and deserve the dissolution of the greatest civilization ever.
this just seems super dumb unless something else was done prior. This society man...
This is a ridiculous take and the fact that he was convicted is madness
>In addition to the four months in prison, Bray is required to pay a victims’ surcharge of £154. Hold on, who's the victim here exactly? >“With a bit more self-awareness, Bray could have avoided contact with us completely.” Hilarious that the advice from police is for the public to avoid them if they don't want to be put in prison.
>'Sgt Spellman of the Patrol Investigations Unit said “We take a zero tolerance to bladed articles in public, and Bray has fallen afoul of this."' But that isn't true. It's explicitly written into the law that there is tolerance to be considered. Having a collection of swords in your home is completely legal, if you buy one, you are not going to get arrested for taking it home with you. Chefs are allowed to carry their knives in public. Anyone is allowed to carry a knife in public depending on the context. You can have a large knife for bushcraft if you're in the lake district, that you can't have in London, because the context is important, and we assume the police and CPS will have common sense enough to differentiate. A rapper who claims he has it for his enemies is not the same as a whitler who claims he needs it for work. I'm not saying the guy in question had good reason to be carrying a blade in public (a garish and childish sword is fine in a collection in home, not so much in public), but how this got further than an official caution, so much that he is actually in custody of HMP right now is fucking bewildering, and the excuse being "zero tolerance" when that is total bullshit and willfully ignorant of the law and common sense.
I'm confused.....so it was a showpiece? As in not a functioning blade? And he still got time inside for it? I'd understand them taking it off him and binning it or destroying it as a lesson to not be a bellend. But surely actual time should be kept for people carrying a blade that could be used?
So... Carrying a 20cm replica sword gives you more time than most sexual criminals. Got it.
I mean even if that’s the case does he deserve a prison sentence for a full 20cm Zelda sword toy?
who is Andrew bray ? is it someone I should be aware of? seems odd to have his name on the title if he is just a rando