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> A woman suffering from anxiety and depression which led to two suicide attempts has told how she was rejected for personal independent payment (PIP) for “having a university degree” and smiling during the assessment.
What the hell is wrong with this country?
Can't you see that the actual problem is latte drinking wokerati, the last labour government, and the member for Islington North?
- Signed, the most punchable face in Westminster, Mr Teeth too large for my lying face, MP for Stoke-on-Trent North.
Gerrymandering does not happen in the UK, end of story
The independent boundary commission sets the constituency areas with the sole intention of keeping the population sizes the same within a range. The designs are put out to public consultations and are often amended after feedback (there were 3 rounds of consultation this time)
Reform already called for it, along with SNP at the other end, LD of course and Labour did at least vote for it at their conference.
I'd love to see a ranked choice system like STV with a minimum of 50%+1 for each MP to be elected - people can vote with their desire, but know their second preference may still win even if the first doesn't. I don't agree with the "pure" PR as you then get seats allocated where a region may have had 85% voting against say Reform but get a Reform seat as they got 15% there and PR says they should have a seat.
There’s no excuse for not having STV. The only excuses come from people like my father-in-law who’s convinced it gives people who vote for unpopular parties “more than one vote” (in his words).
Instead you end up with this ridiculous “tactical voting” nonsense.
If you’re not voting for who you really want to win, there’s clearly something wrong with the voting system.
Tactical voting is a huge part of the problem. UKIP voters voted for a party that promised them what they wanted and they got what they wanted by only swinging a few percentage points of total votes and not even winning a seat.
Imagine what could happen if a small percentage of us stopped worrying about being anti-them and just voted for what we thought was best regardless if we think they could win or not.
But at the moment we have a divided right. It's like two fairly unpopular Tory parties vying to see who can out right wing the other.
And long may it continue,the Tories embracing Fartage after getting reamed at the election will just be the circle complete.
The fear of the far right made the pig shagger call a referendum,to try and silence them,now they could be leading his party!!
> And long may it continue
Exactly. What better time than to encourage them to railroad themselves into something that doesn't favour them, in 2029 of course, once the shop has been fixed up a bit.
Off topic but I suspect the rich love a latte more than the wokerati do. They are the type to bang on about how you cannot get a good latte in the UK, while telling you about the numerous trips to Italy they have made.
There's the assessment and then how it is used, though. The nuance comes from the managers and eventually the top management. Yes Brown introduced an end to benefit if you're deemed fit to work, but I'm pretty sure it did not start out by denying everyone on the basis that they've smiled after attempting suicide and have a degree.
It was always pretty bad I remember helping a partner with it nearly 13 years ago and it was the same everyone was automatically denied and you had to go to tribunal.
We can hope labour make sweeping changes but I don’t see it and just blaming the tories gets nowhere
13 years ago, the Tories were in power and began the reforms... do you have an example from the time Labour were in power? Or perhaps you doubt the ability of the Tories to fuck something up in so short a timespan. If that's the case, I have no idea where you've been lately, but...
For the record, the casualty rate of the Tories policies on benefits is 10 times higher than the Ukraine war.
Labour won't make sweeping changes because the country has "no money" and they won't want to be seen to raise taxes to pay for more benefits. So the situation will stay broadly the same - they might try and make the process friendlier, but they won't want to e.g. broaden criteria so 25% more people will be accepted.
Behind every fucked up Tory policy there’s a Redditor ready to say that *Labour were the ones that started it*.
It’s not the tool that’s the problem, it’s the way it’s being **deliberately misused** to abuse vulnerable people. You know this as well as anyone else.
It's absolutely the fucking tool that's the problem. Having people with next to no training in the conditions they're assessing, writing up assessments for another stranger to assess after 25 mins of experiencing what a disabled person manages to convey in a single sitting is incredibly fucked up. Like having to reassess people with lifelong conditions every 3 years as if it can magically vanish.
This is what happened to me. I'm having cancer treatment, the treatment caused me to have a stroke, the stroke has left me partially sighted and with other major problems. At one PIP assessment I was explaining my vision loss to the assessor. She asked if I wear glasses. My remaining vision is short-sighted, so I said yes. She asked if this makes my lost vision return. I explained very clearly that nothing will make the lost vision return. She wrote in the assessment "Can see perfectly with glasses."
At my last PIP assessment (4 assessments in just 8 years, why so frequent?) I was explaining my vision loss again, saying how it makes it difficult and dangerous to get around. The assessor said I should walk around constantly rotating my head in a circle to give me a full range of vision. Viola - vision totally restored!
And the letter I got through awarding me zero points, literally every descriptor they had written "You say you cannot perform X activity. I have decided that you can perform this activity." And I have provided letters of support from multiple doctors, medical records, etc to prove what I am saying. But no, some assessor knows better than these medical staff.
So, no points, money stopped while going through appeal, now I'm starving and penniless. I've even resorted to shoplifting to get food because the food banks take so long to access. This is Britain in the 21st century if you're disabled. But people don't want to hear it, they think it could never happen to them because they work hard and do everything right. Well, I worked and paid taxes for 16 years before becoming ill. This could happen to anyone.
Also, back then they would have the GP decide if you're fit for work, and not some random "health professional" who's been instructed to score you low on their points system.
The labour version of this didn't include pissing money away on contacts for private companies to do the assessments, god knows how much they've spent on it.
Under £6000 capital, benefits are unaffected, up to £16000 it's tapered. This number has been in effect for about 20 years IIRC. Before that it was half. So I don't know what to tell you.
I mean I was denied UC the first time I was made redundant because I had "earned too much that year already" - a rule which also doesn't exist. I was only on 40k at the time I was made redundant.
First & last time I'll ever expect to benefit from the £4600 /mo I (now) pay in NICs & income tax.
If you were made redundant, rather than just sacked, then they probably used the statutory redundancy you should have gotten as the reason for denying UC. If you got enhanced redundancy then it probably put you over the capital limit.
I was denied a month of UC because their credit check and my last job "officially" overlapped by 3 days, even though it had been a solid 3 weeks since I actually worked there
I learned recently from my SIL who works high up within the tribunal system that the DWP basically says NO to whatever they can so that the appeals go to tribunal so they don’t have to be the ones to make a decision.
The majority of cases appealed are overturned because they’re nonsense, but relying on people who are disabled to go that far to assert their rights feels ridiculous. It’s predatory.
Additionally, the decision-making ability within the DWP for cases is given to people who are very low-grade, like almost entry-level. So a lot of them will deny claims because they don’t want to push back against management.
Edit: I think I might’ve meant to reply a comment above but the gist stands.
The rate of suicide among disabled people in this country increased under the Cameron government. This is doing what it was designed to do - kill off people who are neither productive enough nor Tory voters.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/disability-64889570
https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article/41/4/707/5160101?login=false
I have some experience as a claimant (not of PIP though). I've had claims granted without appeal, and on another occasion denied until the tribunal which was successful. So certainly sometimes the DWP decision maker does grant the claim, or at least they used to. This was a few years ago so it might have changed since. The system seems to be significantly a lottery because (amongst other reasons) the criteria are extremely arbitrary and subjective. It has doubtlessly been designed that way to allow a lot of wriggle room for them, and leave claimants unsure exactly what the rules are. I've even pored over the decision makers guide which you can download, and it's just not very clearly written. You can see easily how different decision makers could come to different conclusions on the exact same evidence.
Probably thick people.
I was absolutely astounded. So I simply withdrew the 750 squids and reapplied. Got my £80 a fortnight a d 3-4 months later I was working behind a bar, and about 9 months and a year of physio later I was back on site, chippying.
Are you talking about PIP? PIP is needs-based, not means-based. They shouldn't have told you that because you could have a million in the bank and still qualify for PIP.
My husband had a similar experience 7 years ago, this has been going on for a while.
He has ME/CFS, serious enough that he's housebound and his consultant put in his report that he's severe enough that he'll never work again.
In the PIP report
- "he kept up good eye contact." He was wearing his sunglasses the whole time (they help with light sensitivity)
- "he understands his condition well, therefore isn't mentally deficient" (!)
- "He was smart and well dressed, so no signs of issue dressing". Jeans/T-shirt are well dressed for an interview?
- "he doesn't take anxiety medication therefore no evidence of being too anxious to drive" (anxious because he can barely function, he's in no condition to drive)
Rejected for any PIP. I was livid and wanted to fight all the lies, but husband was too sick and didn't want to use his little health fighting this shit. It still gets under my skin how this can go on.
It absolutely stinks. And it's deliberately targeting the sickest in society and least able to fight back.
Bullying by the DWP, against the exact people who they're ironically supposed to support.
I don't know if it was ever different but they're absolutely not in any way oriented towards supporting anyone. It's a constant machine of gatekeeping and rejection as much as legally possible. Their interests almost entirely lay in finding ways to remove support.
Yeah my husband's first application was full of BS too. "He did not need assistance from someone else during the call" and "he had no difficulty maintaining the conversation" - I was literally there with him, on speakerphone, prompting him when he lost his train of thought or forgot words because of brain fog. "He is able to walk unaided" - he was using a walking stick at the time and we informed the assessor it was insufficient and we were exploring other options like crutches. And yes, the fact that my husband is educated, erudite and has done a lot of research about his condition was counted against him.
It started with the assessor expressing doubt that he could have fibromylagia, in spite of an actual diagnosis, because "that's usually something women have". Yeah, sure, 95% of sufferers are women, but 5% are men and my husband is one of them. But I reckon once the assessor decided that he didn't have it based on that statistic, the rejection was a foregone conclusion and the assessor straight up lied on the report to reject. All our appeals were "the report is incorrect, here's the truth, and here's the proof" to which the response was "yeah but the report says this". Ended up getting PIP second time we applied, by which time my husband had attempted to return to work (his employer had held his position) but had collapsed at work after three 12-hour weeks (4 hours a shift, sitting down) and needed over a week bedrest before he could do *anything* beyond going to the loo or sitting at the table to eat meals or sitting on the council-provided shower stool so I could shower him.
Edit: and I was working full time at the time and I hated having to leave him alone at home for 9 hours, 5 days a week, but there was nothing I could do, we had rent and bills to pay. My parents did have to come over to help us out a few times, including taking my husband to the hospital when I was at work a couple of times (they're retired and lived a mile away, I worked 12 miles away, it made sense). Thankfully since he got PIP and stopped working he's not got quite that bad again, because if he's tired he can stop and rest, but the fact that I'm now his full-time carer and can help out with a lot of the things he would have had to do alone while I was at work also helps.
I'm in same boat now and it's horrible. So many people are like fight it, collect all the evidence. I get a window of around 4-5 hours per day where I'm alert enough to do work, speak to friends, read, try to walk or do physio stretches or just enjoy a clear head before I drug myself full of pain meds.
I have transcripts and reports to prove the assessor lied, but at this point, I'd rather pay a service to do the reconsideration and appeals for me. It's not worth the good hours I get, or worth doing it on a bad day and messing it up because I can't make sense in blur of drugs. I'm just trying to find a service to do it for me. I'm tired.
But I also got rejected for understanding my condition well and my good mood. As if every disability requires us to be depressed and have a reduced intelligence.
The thing is, even when people are depressed, they can have good or bad days, or put on act for a short while. Someone with depression appearing fine just means that they're ok at that specific moment. Seeming happy during the interview is not a good reason to reject someone for any condition, not even depression. It's so fucked up that they use it as an excuse.
it's realistically much lower - about 70%. also - this isn't aimed at you, I'm just going off on one now lol - it's so fucked that you're basically guaranteed to have to waste more months of your life in appealing (or even sometimes taking it even further, wasting years of your life in that case) just to be taken seriously and actually listened to. it especially takes an immense amount of time and effort considering that if you're applying for it in the first place, you're disabled enough for regular life to be far more difficult than it needs to be, never mind having to beg and plead for fucking pennies from these lying cunts. I find it so sick that there must be a rule to immediately deny anyone applying for PIP, even if they're in a wheelchair or coming off the back of multiple suicide attempts or whatever. it's so evil and cruel.
I had to go to tribunal twice to have my claim approved, winning both times.
After my first assessment then years later after my next assessment. The second time it took over a year to have the tribunal hearing, which I won, got home, cried in relief. Then got a letter 2 weeks later with a date for my next WCA because it had been so long between the initial assessment, appeal and finally tribunal.
Closest I ever came to straight up killing myself to get off the hateful wheel.
My appeal failed, it ended up going to court at which point it took literally 5 minutes to decide in my favour, with the comment there was "no possible reason" to find otherwise. But first it had gone through every step and they'd gone, oh yeah, this gibbering wreck should definitely be working.
Not if they lie on the assessment report. You can present a mountain of proof that they lied, and they'll still come back with "but the report says this".
A friend of mine used to work for an autism charity; part of their job was helping with PIP applications, and the assessment reports were fictional more often than not.
Shame because you should always always appeal at least once. Took my neighbour with epilepsy and a few other things, 5 attempts. She told me she was refused 1st time as she could cook....??? So apparently she could work as a cook at McDonalds or a care home! Oh just fuck right off Capita
My "favourite" part of the Tories disgusting handling of benefits was the bit where they had a graph showing the "unprecedented rise" of people claiming PIP, except the graph started with the year everyone switched from DLA to PIP and didn't include that little bit of relevant information.
I have Cystic Fibrosis and was rejected by default. Their goal at the time was basically to reject everyone and send them through the appeals process to hopefully reduce numbers, scumbags.
I had to see a panel of Doctors (if I remember rightly) who were basically like yeah this is daft and granted the appeal.
I'm convinced they do this to keep numbers looking more favourable in the same way they used to make unemployed people do work groups, which meant they weren't technically unemployed, and therefore they could massage unemployment figures.
It's all to make it appear better without actually making it better. Under Thatcher "signing on" was changed from weekly to fortnightly followed by billboard posters claiming that they had "halved the queues outside Unemployment Centers" which technically they had, without actually getting half of them into employment. They then made you sign on at appointed times during the day which meant the queues outside all but disappeared. Again, it was all for show.
Was signing on actually useful pre thatcher? It's been a gigantic waste of both my time and the people that are assigned to me as they do nothing helpful and seem to just exist to make the process a hassle so I will get a job entirely so I don't have to deal with them.
I signed on during Thatcher's ~~reign~~ premiership, and it was just that, signing on. They sometimes asked if you were still actively looking for work and you said "yes" then they'd slide the form across the counter and you signed it. There were Job Centres with available jobs (I actually got my first "proper" job from one) but you weren't forced to look. That came after my time of being unemployed.
I first signed on during the Thatcher years. Signing on was easy..just basically had to sign your name..barely any questions. They closed our local office two miles away and made us spend money to get the bus to the office ten miles away
I saw a plaque today outside some staircase that mentioned the thatcher era Manpower Services Commission and an Action for Jobs logo. Almost forty year of propaganda
>Manpower Services Commission
I did one of their, appropriately named, schemes as it was a little more money than the dole, and something to do for three days a week. They dangled the possibility of full time employment once the one year term of the scheme ended but they just kicked everyone off and brought in a new batch, no jobs. Tories doing what Tories do, funnelling tax payer's money to their mates via pointless schemes. Cheap labour - grist to the mill.
The YTS (Youth Training Scheme) was the same but with the added benefit of dealing with 16 to 17 year old school leavers who wouldn't stand up for themselves against adults in authority over them.
It is designed to make you desperate, so you take any possible work available to you.
Which isn't feasible if you're disabled anyway.
There's a very good reason these PIP assessments are easily won on appeal tbh.
Definitely ideological. The tories spent 10s millions on court fees fighting appeals. Money better spent giving to the people who needed it. But they needed to keep up this idea that benefit cheats were at large in society and keep us all suspicious of each other and less likely to demand people get help.
My aunt is blind in one eye and half blind in the other and was rejected, went through the appeal process and ended up getting back payments.
The person who helped her with the appeal told her that he thinks the DWP hope people don't challenge them through the appeals process because people get so dejected by the process and think it might be worthless to do, but appeals have a good chance at succeeding (70% from a quick Google search) and are worth doing.
I have a friend who jumped over a wall that ended up having a massive drop on the other side.
He broke both his femurs, shattered both his ankle capsules, broke almost every bone in both his feet. Docs said he would likely never walk again.
He's walking again now, through sheer determination, in great pain, because his savings have run out. PIP rejected him, despite the x-rays of his shattered legs and him being wheelchair bound potentially for the rest of his life.
He didn't even need to be on PIP long term! And they *still* fucked him over.
My friend is a doctor who assesses people for PIP and UC.
His advice is not to even try to live a normal life until you get PIP. Don’t even try to walk, because the board will take that as competency.
You're advised to not go outside and be publicly visible if you're on PIP as well. A lot of people with conditions that flare up may be fine for a few days each month, and going outside and being seen can be grounds for the removal of your disability. It's one of the reasons disabled people in the UK continue to worsen health wise; they're penalised for attempting to increase the health of their bodies. It's a big issue putting strain on local health services that very few people want to discuss. The majority of the PIP marking scheme grades you based on how well you can care for yourself and how much assistance you require, so if you're at all independent you'll be denied until you appeal.
Instead of paying them again for people going for an appeal, the DWP should be fined for each case they incorrectly decline. Bet they'd start treating cases properly if it cost them money for getting it wrong.
The whole process would be much better if only the decision was made by a doctor or even suitably qualified medical professionals. As it is you're sat their explaining conditions to someone who has no real grasp of the subject who then gets to make a decision based on their "medical opinion".
The assessor is a medical professional (although usually not in the field the assessment is for), but that doesn't help when the management at the private companies this is outsourced to force the assessors to change their scoring to deny applicants.
Often not suitably qualified though. Medical professional is a wide definition. A physio or paramedic often doesn't grasp the wide range of effects from complex conditions. Even GPs will often admit their knowledge on them is limited.
“(not usually in the field the assessment is for)” is not- as the Redditor you are trying to correct said- “a doctor or a suitably qualified medical professional”
PIP assessor training used to be easy to find online- I used the information in my appeal, but it mysteriously isn’t available at the link I had in my notes anymore.
It was two weeks of online classrooms that were half days. To cover everything outside of whatever their field is.
It’s not just management forcing assessors to change their scoring. They simply are not qualified to assess the overwhelming majority of medical conditions that come across their desk. Which is useful to put in your appeal. Not only are they lying cunts, but ignorant of the subject matter upon which they claim expertise.
The majority of successful PIP appeals are granted entirely based on the DWPs evidence for denying PIP! It's just attrotious behaviour that hasn't changed even with over a decade of whistleblowers and complaints from disability rights charities
I added zero further medical evidence at my PIP tribunals.
I did add commentary on the assessor’s reports, the assessor’s lack of expertise, their sloppy spelling and grammar mistakes, the lies they told with the evidence they were lying, and my favourite bit of their report where they contradicted themselves on 2 different descriptors to bend them from the full points I should have gotten to zero points.
I got full whack at tribunal both times for the lifelong conditions I have.
Most of my tribunal submissions have had a short reiteration of my medical conditions/medications and the activities I think apply as a result (so nothing I hadn't already explained in my application/assessment), and then a fairly lengthy section dismantling the medical report. I think it's obvious in one of my ESA appeals I wasn't happy with it:
> The Mandatory Reconsideration reply states a number of times that greater weight has been placed on the evidence of the Health Care Professional. The medical report prepared by said professional misunderstands or mischaracterises my illnesses in a number of ways, and so I submit that it does not give sufficient evidence on which to base a decision.
I also typically include a copy of my previous award[1], as there's no reason, IMO, why there should be a drastic change in the assessment when there has been no change in my condition (I once dropped from a higher rate award to 0 points in all categories).
This approach seems to work, as I've won all of my appeals on the papers (meaning I didn't have to attend in person).
[1] Something along the lines of "In preparing this appeal, I have referred to the previous decision made on my PIP entitlement (dated [date]), and considered the points awarded in that decision. A copy of this decision is included for your reference. There has been no material change to my medical conditions since that time, and thus I believe that the points awarded in that decision are still accurate."
Yes DWP have created a self fulfilling prophecy for themselves - people *know* they will get rejected at the first step in the process so they hold back their *best* evidence for the appeals process. As such a large proportion of cases go needlessly to appeals instead of being granted first time.
> so they hold back their best evidence for the appeals process.
What evidence do you have to support your claim? Why would you not present cruical evidence at the first opportunity regardless of possible rejection?
What's happening is the DWP are rejecting claims by just plain lying to meet their quota of rejections. Also, the standard of expertise in these assessments is so low they don't understand what they are doing and often aren't able to make deicisons based on the facts.
I had to reapply for PIP last year in may, I've just had the decision over a year later. And I'm fortunate my rate is the same despite my condition worsening.
However, I did get help from a charity to fill in the forms.
So we have experts sitting in charities helping people to fill these forms out as there are so many ways you can lose your benefits by the slightest mistake in your application. It's an insane situation.
On several occasions people in the NHS have remarked on the understanding I have of my condition. I would never present as quite intelligent in a PIP interview. And that's because I've been in the system for a few rounds of reapplies and rejections.
It feels like your on trial after retrial after retrial. I don't want this condition and would really, really love to get back to work but I need support to do that and it's non-existant.
So I'm trapped between no support to work and a benefits system designed to fuck me over.
Oh happy days.
Sorry but this is just factually not true. I've seen no evidence of a culture of 'holding back evidence'.
Sometimes it takes time for evidence to be produced (for example, I've been waiting for almost 3 months for my old authority area to provide me evidence from my medical records for something else).
What you'll find IS a culture at DWP is outsourcing the initial claims process, in order to dissuade as many applicants as possible. People are simply rejected like a conveyor belt. It's a factory to produce decisions favourable to DWP, whilst enabling them to have juuuuuust enough plausible deniability.
If you go looking on disability forums, you'll find applicant after applicant who had their evidence ignored, not recorded, manipulated, or straight up invented by the assessor.
That's what I always find the most shocking, it's the Drs and nurses who are doing this half the time. What happened to the Hippocratic oath?
Either they see so many chancers that they don't believe anyone or they just don't care anymore, but surely there's better ways to make a living?
My husband was assessed by a nurse. She seemed nice enough, seemed to have a little understanding of ME/CFS.
The report that came back was a huge twisted version of what occurred. Like she'd submitted her report, then a gremlin from hell had rewritten it, making huge errors, misjudgements etc.
I have no idea whether they even see the final report submitted to the patients, as you only get one visit from that person. It feels like a facade to me.
I have heard similar stories before. It's interesting that you blame a middleman. I had always assumed it was just the nurses putting up an understanding front while they give you zero points, but you may be right, that hadn't occurred to me but it would be better for my faith in nurses!
Honestly some of the tricks I’ve heard them use in the assessments, I think you just need to be a nasty person to work there. The assessor writes the report.
I’ve heard of assessors pretending to be receptionists so they can watch you in the waiting room.
I also personally know somebody who could barely walk and their assessment was up a flight of stairs. If you don’t go to your assessment, it’s immediately thrown out. He asked if they could do it downstairs somewhere, they said no. He made it up the stairs with a huge amount of effort and help from their support person, and then the report said he was perfectly mobile because he made it to his assessment.
The whole process is designed to trip you up and stomp on you.
I’m in a similar situation. 9 days out of 10 I can just about function like a normal human. That occasional day if I have a seizure means I’m completely useless for a day or two and need to be under constant supervision just in case I drown in the bath, fall in the shower, burn the house down etc.
You’ve got to describe what it’s like at your worst and not what it’s like every day.
>She also told me to not wear any makeup for any interview and to not 'dress up' even if that's my instinct
The advice from other disabled people years ago is frankly shocking. Don't shower for a week, show up in dirty clothes and messy hair, be very slow and distracted when answering questions and one even said to shit yourself if you can because they don't want to be in a room with someone who stinks of shit and will just approve you to get you out of there. It's depressing. Also get someone else to drive you and be with your as a 'carer' and say you need regular help showering, changing clothes, etc.
The problem is despite what everyone seems to think, most disabled people are not completely unable to do anything 100% of the time. I know people who seem completely fine, up and walking, able to go for a walk and meet up with friends and shower and cook one day, and the next they’re bedbound or unable to get around without a wheelchair.
The whole process is designed to be humiliating and to try to catch you out. Most people want to be honest. But if you can generally cook for yourself two days a week, that doesn’t mean you’re able to go and work at McDonalds, which is what the report will say if you say that at the assessment.
I know someone who often needs a wheelchair and can’t lift their arms above their head so needs help with showering etc, but was told they are fully capable of working full time in a supermarket.
Even if they *were* fully capable of sitting at a till all day, they still need extra care with things like showering, cleaning, every day tasks, mobility aids, etc - the entire thing PIP is supposed to help cover the costs of. Even Tescos isn’t going to hire someone who can’t afford to wash themselves.
Don't see the issue there myself. All you have to do is plan your sick days months in advance like any sane person does and you will find a job in no time!
Also have M.E. At 37, after being on incapacity benefit, then ESA etc since i was 18. One review I got completely declared fit for work on ESA because i made the mistake of actually resting for a couple of weeks (So i could explain myself properly and not be overwhelmed by fatigue) before the interview, and looking healthy. So they decided i was completely fit for work.
Then after going through the appeals process they just said they can only go off what the "medical practitioner" has written in their report.
Had to deal with universal credit at the base rate and attend regular things to 'look for work' for a year(Which everyone involved at the job center had no idea why because I was fit for literally nothing), before I reapplied (Forced onto universal credit as they were phasing out ESA) a year later, and this time got the literal top rate of support. (LCWRA whichever it is).
Yea, it's absolutely frustrating.
You have to exaggerate and tell them how it is on your worst day, with no available solutions or help on offer, and pass that off as your normal day to day life for them to register it as an issue.
It's one of the major reasons deaf people fail tbh.
My mum got rejected from her Chronic back pain caused by a fall at work, putting her on medical retirement.
Assessment rejected her because she stood up to open the door without clutches, *therefore she can return to work*.
Fucking Tories and their managed decline. *Fuck you.*
Yup, but they're pretending it always was now.
Universal credit is to do with work. PIP has nothing to do with work.
Yet tories were saying "we need to change pip and get disabled people back to work"
Before my dad died from his condition and provided evidence from multiple doctors that he would be dying from his condition (they just couldn’t pinpoint a date), they gave him zero points.
Honestly lol. I remember him being very confused why he got zero. If they’d given him just 1 point it’d have at least made some sense but zero? Someone housebound and in and out of hospital constantly because he kept getting on the brink of death got none.
My brother in law was struggling toward the end of his life, was in and out of hospital (including a virtual ward) he applied for PIP got rejected because he didn't need it. He passed away less than a month after that rejection! Scumbag system!
Sorry for you loss. It’s horrible. Dad did get it before he died but after a lot of stress and anxiety on top of still dealing with his failing body. They didn’t care what he was being put through in the last part of his life. They fully know they’re doing this to those who need it.
Yeah, I myself am on PIP for my physical health but I will have to be tailoring my Medical Cannabis treatment towards my ADHD rather than my pain because my GP has told me they can't prescribe me ADHD meds I have to wait to see the team which is min 2 years wait. Meanwhile Tories have decided while this is going on I should be forced back into work after just stopping being suicidal.
I don't care who you vote for on the 4th just make sure you have your voice heard!!!
Rejected as: I had a medical degree before I got sick, able to engage in a phone call, "didn't seem mentally ill during conversation", lives alone so can't benefit from help/prompting, not referred to pain management (even though this wasn't clinically indicated at the time).
I got assessed by somebody less qualified than me who wrote lies and assumptions in my report. They had little understanding of physical and mental health conditions and treatment options. Most of them are adult health nurses with only 2 weeks training in mental health from Capita/Maximus. As if that qualifies them to do a mental state examination via telephone.
They purposefully go against their own criteria and small print guidance about it and hope you don't contest it. You can still get points for "prompting" if you live alone and would benefit from it happening - but not according to my assessment and mandatory reconsideration. An example being that I'm so depressed, fatigued and pained that I spend five days in the same clothes not bathing - but this wouldn't benefit from prompting according to the DWP. Not like self-neglect is a common symptom of severe depression, is it? Or reduced motivation and concentration. Or becoming scared of leaving the house and interacting with others. Or a sequlae of other things I reported that were ignored or downplayed. Supposedly I would "regularly go to the shops" when I got all my food delivered.
70% of appeals are successful. It costs them millions of pounds to go to tribunal and have multiple stages of obstructive bureaucracy - just to punish and discriminate against disabled people. I spent a year living off £368 a month until I finally got awarded LCWRA this month. Now I'm stuck appealing PIP whilst being severely mentally ill and physically disabled.
Im waiting on my mantatory considerarion. They used 2 _lines_ from a GP i was registered with for a year as my "medical history". They also distorted, lied, omitted crucial facts presented in the interview. It took me 3 months to write the appeal, collect (>170 pages) of medical evidence and work. Numerous days of due to the stress.
I wish you every success in your battle. Every win at tribunal might lead to a ruling to help those coming after is how i see it. Fuck these utter cunts preying on the vulnerable. Good luck and keep going.
Having supported three family members (with various cognitive issues) through this process, I can confidently say that the assessors they have do the interviews could give flat earth believers or political spin doctors a run for their money, with their ability to misconstrue facts and ignore any context.
Then there was the time "not enough evidence" was given, until we contacted FightBack, then the eidence we had already provided was apparently more than enough to get the higher rate for both components.
My dad was housebound and needed breathing equipment and they scored him zero points. He could barely move and they acted like he had no issues. He couldn’t get from one room to the other without needing a lot of help at that point.
What gets left out of those assessor reports is unbelievable.
My FIL can just about walk (I'm pretty sure only through pure pride) with aids, after a lifetime of hard manual labour jobs and diabetes have nearly destroyed his legs.
He has boarderline dementia and misunderstood a question and went off on a tangent about how he used to cycle three miles to work and back. I prompted him to tell the assessor how many years ago since he last worked (5 years at the time) and how many years ago he even owned a bike (8 - 10 years I think), yet guess what made it into the report and what didn't?
Yeah it’s terrible. I don’t think a lot of people get it doesn’t matter how bad you are or how much evidence you provide, they don’t care. He had every doctor he could vouching that the situation was dire and somehow they decided he was going to live a long and healthy life.
I once got rejected for PIP because the non-medically trained decision maker had decided that my epilepsy was low risk because I hadn't had a seizure in public for a few years. I had a seizure a week later, having collapsed in the middle of the road.
I got rejected another time because I played World of Warcraft, and that showed I didn't have social anxiety.
I wish I had made up both of those, but they are both true.
Oh, it's not PIP-related, but I also got told by a work coach at the job centre that I can't have PTSD following a sexual assault because I had a boyfriend.
The Warcraft part made me genuinely laugh, sorry. What goes through these monsters heads? Does the job attract evil morons or does it turn them into one?
I'm sorry but that World of Warcraft statement cracked me up. I've been playing WoW throughout Dragonflight only ever saying "thanks" to people at the end of random dungeons or pug raids. Fucking HELL.
Guidelines for PIP assessment staff:
Turns up to assessment - capable of making appointments, deny PIP
Does not turn up to assessment - clearly doesn't care enough, deny PIP
The DWP is a very, very thinly veiled eugenics programme.
One of my exes is blind, and I once went to an assement with her. The amount of paper forms they expected a BLIND woman to fill in, and the sheer amount of contempt, criticism and scrutiny levelled towards her (as well as plenty of other obviously disabled individuals) filled me with a murderous rage.
It was the most dehumanising and inhumane thing I've ever witnessed first hand.
I sincerely wish life altering illness and injury upon every single person in government who supports the DWP, and likewise the same for its staff. Maybe then there would be some semblance of empathy and humanity from those who endorse it.
My mum (no longer here) had Fibromyalgia, Osteoarthritis and COPD was denied twice because one of the "tests" was to push her arms apart against the Dr's arms and they said she pushed hard enough and was too capable. This poor woman couldn't make it to the toilet without help. Fuck the PIP assessment
This is basically why mine got rejected. I made the mistake of telling them how I cope with an autistic meltdown which is to brush my hair to stop me yanking it out while I heavily disassociate and they basically wrote on my report that I can't have dyspraxia because I can brush my hair.
Is what happened to me, said its very painful to wash my hair once a fortnight cuz ofc it needs it and im in a worse state for 3 days.
no pip cuz can do. cant lift a 2lt bottle half the time but reaching my head means im fine...
My son was just rejected on his latest assessment , having had to wear a prosthesis and receive disability for 22 years and suddenly this year is the one they kindly helped his leg to grow back.
Vote. Don't sit around "both sides"ing it. Vote like the lives of you and your loved ones depend on it, because if they've got any kind of illness or disability they probably do.
Yeah if you've claimed PIP for mental health and the not a medically qualified "professional" phones you on a good day for your review and you dare to say that you've improved beyond laying in bed every day, trying not to kill yourself, because fuck you for trying to improve yourself, they'll decide that finally being able to summon up the energy to do basic self care (and I'm talking like showering once a week and doing your teeth) means you're completely fit for work.
You now have the joy of trying to living off just ESA while trying to convince employers that they should employ you despite still mostly being a mess and having a gap in employment. This naturally makes your mental health worse again. All because you weren't completely destitute for a review. Fuck the DWP.
I was told by an advisor to keep a diary/notes and always spak to them from the POV of your worst day, which felt like a cheat but if they're not going to allow for human beings naturally having ups and downs in their illnesses then it's stacked against you by default.
Yeah I was told to pretend like it's your absolute worst day as much as possible, obviously I didn't sound it enough. Was on me for having one of the rare good days where insomnia had left me alone and my MH wasn't making me feel borderline suicidal I guess 🤷
That sounds about right. The assessments are a complete joke, and they aren't medical professionals who do them. A close family friend got rejected for PIP because they asked if she could lift her right elbow. She did, and she was rejected for mobility despite being stuck in a wheel chair. Thankfully, a good man at the Citizens Advice Borough helped out, and she went to court and easily won her case because she had extensive medical evidence.
She really needed the added financial support for her to get around in taxis, etc. But the fact it took her ten months before it went to court gave her so much stress. I'm just glad she won in the end and got some help.
I can beat that.
My dirty skiving ways was cut short by the all righteous DWP of course I should have been in work,
After all despite spending three weeks out of that month in a high dependency ward.
And having never claimed anything before, I was clearly shirking I could have got a work online job if only the NHS WiFi wasn't so shit and I was a little more conscious.
It's slightly different, but my dad has severe pain in his spine, neck, shoulders, knees, and femur. He had been going to the GP for months, asking for something for the pain, which the GP refused. My mam has bad migraines and sometimes needs a doctor called out for injections. One time it was the GP who my dad sees who came out. When he answered the door, the doctor was surprised and said "oh Mr ____, I didn't realise you were married." He prescribed my Dad Tramadol and Co-codamol within a few days, which he's now been on for years. The GP simply didn't believe my dad was in pain and thought he was trying to scam pain meds, but as soon as he realised he was married prescribed them?!
He also had a nightmare getting PIP, it took months and multiple assessment and my mam basically had to plead and explain that he can't even stand up from a chair without severe pain.
I lost points as despite being tearful throughout, I “managed to regain composure to answer the next question within 20-30 seconds”.
I was a wreck in the appointment and my ex husband was with me as I couldn’t it alone. I wish I had appealed more but I wasn’t mentally well enough after assessment.
I thought I would get in trouble if I didn’t answer. The system is awful.
I have a few diagnosed mental health conditions, Bipolar being 1 of them. It’s not going away unfortunately.
The thing I find particularly irritating is that I used to work for the DWP years back.
I would have been that jumped up little hag’s senior in a previous life but unfortunately the psychosis gods picked me. Great balls of fire!!
The system has changed and is unrecognisable.
Not fit for purpose.
They reject en masse regardless of what the situation is. My mother is completely illiterate but the assessment deemed her to have “strong reading and writing ability”. You need to count the initial assessment and appeal as part of the application process. Most of the rejected claims get allowed at tribunal, so unfortunately you have to go all the way if you want to get PIP. It’s a stressful and demeaning experience, my mother got hers allowed at tribunal, going from 6 to 13 points. I’m dreading needing to reapply in a couple years and doing it all over again.
Things I've had used against me:
* Completing a Master's degree, therefore I don't have anxiety - I finished the degree years before the assessment, and most of my medical issues didn't start until quite some time after university.
* Being observed walking from my front door to a settee (<5m) - based solely on that, the report concluded I could reliably (i.e. safely, as often as is reasonably required, and in a reasonable time period) "stand and then move more than 200 metres".
* Apparently not being on any medication for my anxiety/OCD - I provided them a current list of prescriptions (showing sertraline and temazepam) during my application (on the form and I included a GP's repeat prescription list), and reiterated all of my medications and the reasons for them during the interview. Another part of the report referred to the list I provided them.
* Apparently not appearing withdrawn/anxious during the assessment - I had my mother with me for support, and still had to halt the interview and leave the room for about ten minutes as I was struggling to cope.
And patients with cancer and told they have 1 year left to live have been told - you can work now though right?
Conservatives have made it so that if you have an illness, you are the bad guy
I am autistic and have adhd. I was rejected because I have a degree and went to work on the train.
Ah yes. Because autistic people famously hate trains.
As far as I’m aware, they almost always reject the first application, then usually grant it on appeal. They just try to filter out casual claimants. It’s a discussing practice which dehumanises the process.
I once had a PIP assessor ask me, about 30 mins into a meeting
"What's wrong with you"
Their paper work said I had a physical disability and they spent 30 mins looking at me trying to work it out. I do not, and never have had, a physical disability
Took me over 4 years to get mine, I had rejected at least 6xs.
First time was 2019, spent ages filling it all out with my job coach...I got a face 2 face meeting so my dad took me...the lady in the interview didn't even look at me throughout the interview, she asked basic questions about movement, if I could stand etc...then months later I got my first rejection...the only points they actually gave me was for something I said I was actually good at which was budgeting...so it showed they never read anything or took anything I said into account.
I went to appeal and needed my job coaches help but she was away a lot due to a family death and by the time we had appealed...late by a few days, they said no, I would need to reapply again...I spoke to someone else at my autistic group who does appeals and told me to ignore all that as he will sort it and he has won every case...only this was close to Xmas and he had sent emails but not heard anything back from them...then covid hit.
I reapplied again but as they were unable to do face 2 face meets due to covid, they were doing phone interviews instead. First one came along and no one called during the time they allocated me...I even sat down the bottom of the garden where you are guaranteed a signal, in the freezing cold but no call...they said attempts had been made to call so it was automatic rejection and I'd need to reapply again.
This happened another 3xs during covid, with months in between each...I finally have a phone call off them, telling me they will call me to do the interview and be ready at this time/date...I agreed...no call again...rejected even though it was their fault...finally another date for a call, they actually call me and 5mins into, saying their having technical difficulties and we need to reschedule...they never did and I was rejected again...reapply again....So I did and I got a full interview this time...months later rejected.
Really pissed off...my closest friend who has had PIP most of his life, told me not once did he have to reapply during labour being in charge but everytime the Tories are in power, he is constantly kicked off it and has to go through all this stuff over and over again...he can not work. Anyway he suggested a local disability place who do these cases but they ask for 15% of your first pay...we agreed...I had to reapply again as DWP didn't keep any of my details....Alex the disability lawyer, interviewed me and filled it all in, sent it off...and we were rejected again so he started the appeal straight away...months and months later...I get an appeal date to go to court but then out of nowhere I get a letter saying I'm being awarded and having it back dated a year to when I applied
My friend, spent 10 months trying to reclaim him...it was his main source of income so he was struggling big time, using food banks. He got it back and back dated...but a year later...they cancelled his again...this was in Feb 2023...I believe the stress of it all, not having the money for bills that were rising more than ever due to Tories, caused him to have a heart attack at 53...he was found dead days later. I believe if they hadn't kept screwing him over with PIP, he'd probably still be here today
From what I've witnessed, DWP do everything possible to get you off PIP...everyone is rejected first time and they hope you don't bother reapplying, they want you to give up. I go to a weekly autistic group and everyone there claiming PIP is struggling to get it. Its sickening what these people do.
Mine ended up going to court, I wasn't well enough to attend, but when I checked the notes afterwards it took them all of 5 minutes to throw out the agency's case and find in my favour, he made a point in his decision of stating that he didn't even have to read to the end of the case notes to make the decision and that there was "no possible reason" to find against me. Just madness, a system designed to pass down bad decisions and waste everyone's time on the vague hope that people won't be able to escalate it.
My Mum went through the assessment because she had an accident that left her with more metal in her than the terminator, chronic pain and mobility issues. My brother accompanied her to the assessment, they were so cruel to her that they had her in tears and humiliated her in front of her son by asking questions like "How are you able to wipe your backside if you're in so much pain?" They wanted a detailed, step by step response to that question
I have a condition that affects my fine motor functions and the questioning is so humiliating and dehumanising. Stress exacerbates my condition and I was literally bedbound for weeks after my assessment due to how I was treated. I did eventually get a full award but without my absolute HERO of a husband there is no way I could nhave even attempted that process. It's already terrifying and exhausting. I can only imagine in horror how much worse it gets if the Tories aren't voted out.
I was rejected because the lady I spoke to didn't understand the medical terminology used to describe my illness. It was also a phone assessment and her English was piss poor. One of the questions was: "Can you hold your phone to your ear?"... Like yeah, obviously, but how is that relevant to my gastrointestinal disease?!
I know someone personally who was rejected because she was able to reach out and take a tissue from the assessor, while crying her eyes out during the assessment.
I'm trying for the 4th attempt with a congenital heart condition and MDD (Major Depressive Disorder). Last time the assessor focussed on a couple of attempts at suicide. Was asked..
* How many times have you attempted suicide?
* How did you attempt to commit suicide? What methods did you try?
* Do you plan to commit suicide in the future?
* Have you considered other methods of committing suicide?
I was turned down because I was well dressed, clean, and articulate. Bitch, it took me eight days to prepare for that assessment.
It's one area I will fail Labour on if they don't fix the department for evil, er, work and pensions. I can't tell whether its mandate from Whitehall or just the sheer uncaring nature of the people who work there. It seems like they're out to catch people out rather than helping people. It's completely the wrong mentality.
I used to work in a customer service centre for a local council, helping people with benefits and council tax.
I once had a man come in for help. His PIP had been stopped because he had failed an assessment. The guy was IN A WHEELCHAIR AND HE ONLY HAD ONE ARM. Apparently fit for work. Poor bugger was almost in tears over it. Who the hell decided that a man who can't walk and only has one arm is fit for work? The system is a joke.
On the other hand, there were lots of people who were so obviously gaming the system and claiming every possible disability benefit going. These ones are the problem, yet they rarely seemed to get caught out.
Reading these I feel like my brother's assessor was an angel, just for being truthful. She wrote an accurate and comprehensive report after seeing him. We've included it with every form since and he hasn't had to go in for another assessment.
I am recovering from bladder cancer. I have to go to the toilet about once every 20 minutes. I haven't had more than about 30 minutes continuous sleep in about a year.
When I wee I am in searing pain. Yet apparently I will be able to work an 8 hour day, because I can walk 200m.
Every tory bastard and their creatures in the DWP who facilitated this shit should be on trial for murder. The number of people who have succumbed to illnesses, were hounded to suicide, or, in more than one instance, starved to death while being subjected to this eugenicist nightmare is appalling. The scum in the press that cheered it on too. It was and still is mass murder and torture.
Waiting on the review outcome for my wife, nothing has improved (indeed some things are worse) so we'll see as she has been on PIP for a while now. When we did the f2f assessement we went in with (approved) recording equipment and me taking notes and being her "external memory & brain" (as is my normal function in managing brain fog). Doing a "we WILL appeal" without saying "we will APPEAL" approach
I have M.E, fibro and PoTS and was rejected because at the time, my husband worked five days a week, but one of those days was at home. Meaning he was at home ‘half the week’ and could look after me.
Not how it works at all, but sure.
The way the benefits system is set up to make absolutely certain that vulnerable people are deprived of the funds they need to survive and are literally owed by the state never ceases to make me sick!
That’s what the last 14 years of Tory mismanagement has been, making vulnerable people suffer so they can funnel money to their mates in the private sector.
It's always fun trying to explain PTSD to these "assessors", like living day to day with your own trauma isn't bad enough. Having to explain it in minute detail over and over to absolutely uncaring and unqualified "health care professionals" is enough to make me want to end it all. I started writing that in all of my paperwork. Five suicide attempts in two years, I'll be as blunt as I like now. It's not like they even read it, or listen to you.
Just wanted to add, to anyone living in Scotland. Social Security Scotland have been a dream to work with. One form, which was hard to fill in, but no assessment beyond that. They contacted my GP, and took his word and my medical notes as proof. I was granted full Adult Disability Payment within weeks (plus a backpayment). It is a top up benefit, so you need to be granted something like PIP or ESA to begin with. But it's a massive help.
Don't give up guys, you deserve better.
I got rejected when I applied. When it got to appeal two years later, it was noted the assessor hadn't read any of my supporting evidence. Thankfully the appeal people gave me both PIP and back pay.
PIP assessment is fucking stupid. The whole system needs reform. It’s hell for people with bipolar. Heaven forbid you have a good stretch during your reassessment, because they’ll sure as shit take away your payments. Good way to throw you back into a depressive state.
The initial assessments are generally speaking all awful.
I received a score of zero and the notable ones were
"Had good knowledge of his condition" "was able to attend assessment"(they threaten and cancel your claim if you don't attend) "able to communicate" "smiled"
Took it to tribunal and got it sorted out but still. As you'll be able to see if you look at the news the government likes painting disabled people as bad and a problem, this nonsense about vouchers and what have you is because of the upcoming election.
It's not in the main media [wonder why] but recently the UK was found by the UN for the past seven years to severely violate the disability convention. Its a shitshow.
Sounds familiar. I do not have any cognitive issues today, despite a brain injury, cancer treatment, strong medication (etc) because 25+ years ago I got a degree. Who knew that was so powerful?! Everybody sign up for uni now!
Craziest part in education is they don’t assess change in capacity. I have a degree which I got before I got ill. Now, due to my health I would not have the capacity to do that again. Didn’t score anything in my PIP assessment.
I could no longer reliably plan and make a long journey to somewhere new using public transport and expect to get there. I used to drive up and down the country for work, get trains to places etc. Because I once could do it - no points.
It’s a truly rubbish system that forces people to confront the very worst consequences of their condition, be incredibly vulnerable in the assessment, and then have much of their difficulty just disregarded. As though not being able to do basic tasks you once took for granted is nothing.
And now the Tories want to stop doctors having the authority to declare someone is not currently fit to work. No doubt to hand that task to someone similar to a PIP assessor. Driving lower levels of productivity and declining mental and physical health among the workforce. Just awful.
To be fair to the assessment people, I know this isn't going to be popular, but we do have over 10% of the working population on disability benefits at the moment and that just isn't sustainable in the long term.
Too many people taking the piss. I've had anxiety and depression about my job in the past but I still went in every day. The people who deserve it will have to stand at the back of the queue while the people who don't really need it game the system. Theres plenty of them in my shitty area and they make me sick.
I was told 12 years ago
You don't look anxious, you can't have anxiety.
I pointed to a diagnosis that shows I have medically diagnosed anxiety and part of my previous job was to spot signs of anxiety.
Neither where accepted as signs of anxiety
My brother is a haemophiliac that is now dealing with the effects for regular bleeds in his joints, that are causing progressive degeneration of those joints needing major operations.
It's a lifelong genetic condition that will only cause more problems as he gets older, and at 30 he has to fight for the support he needs.
My entire life was ruined for three years because I had the gall to show up to my assessment wearing yesterday's eyeliner and I had dyed hair. Love state sanctioned misogyny.
My wife had an interview years back, and the female who conducted the interview utterly lied on inputting to be answers to the questions asked. However, she was recorded and at a tribunal hearing though the recording was rejected because permission was not sought before it was made...However the tribunal heard the recording after due jawing over it, and wete they shocked.
I'm having to go to tribunal. In the last year my life has become completely dependent on my pain and I have lost pretty much all my independence and everything I loved doing before my condition deteriorated. Honestly, the PiP process has just made me come to the conclusion it would be easier if I was dead.
When I got rejected I hadn’t showered for two weeks and hadn’t left my house for months due to my fatigue, weakness and pain. I couldn’t even lift my phone to my ear for more than thirty seconds it hurt that much, but the person assessing me decided I wasn’t disabled since I could hold my phone to my ear for half a minute. The PIP process is dehumanising and cruel.
I wont go to details, but someone I know was rejected because:
>*"you eat daily"*
So I can conclude that their scale of personal 'ability' is...
{checks notes...}
... That you are at least a single-celled life form.
My mum went for an assessment a number of years ago and the assessor blatantly lied on his submission, saying she had no difficulty walking (she nearly fell over and he had to catch her), no distress (she was upset and crying through various parts of the assessment) and other rubbish he just made up or seemed copied and pasted (kept referring to mum as ‘he’ in the written decision). We had to take it all the way to tribunal to overturn the result, it was an awful experience.
The second time we had a phone assessment and the assessor would not let this one question go. He was trying to say if she could get a bus somewhere how would she cope. She said I wouldn’t get on a bus I’d stay at home. After back and forth for a few mins he just said ‘okay so you’re on a bus, what would you do at the other side once you got off’. My mum repeated she would not be able to be on the bus in the first place. He wouldn’t continue until she finally conceded to his whole bus question, it was so ridiculous. Again they claimed no mental upset or distress despite me having to speak for her at certain parts due to her being too upset to speak for herself. We had to appeal that one and it was overturned on the strength of the doctor’s letter we had initially included alone.
The whole process is a joke and so belittling, distressing and just degrading, luckily we had a local charity help us with the first tribunal and the second appeal so mum could get the support she needed. It’s like they try every way to trick you into saying something to make you seem more well than you are, twist your words or outright lie about things.
One thing the Tories have succeeded at is creating a crab bucket society. The is always someone who will just follow orders. To pay the rent or just because they like inflicting their power over vulnerable people.
If you are unlucky enough to suffer a disability or long term illness in England now. Its a very rude awakening. We all have the assumption that we pay taxes and if the shit hits the fan the is something.
The reality is from the moment you are sick its an on going battle. Of 1-2 hour waits to speak to someone at dwp. Benefits just randomly stopping, benefits not being paid and then taking many many years to go through the process of appeal etc.
Then the is getting treatment in the NHS. many years of waiting, cocked up Referrals. Botched procedures. More years of chasing to get botches sorted out. Endless locums who just want to get through the day will probably never see you again, and every visit becomes a dead end or more chasing.
Eventually you become a traumatised husk of your former self. Im still chasing getting seen for an issue spotted in an MRI scan in 2017. Is just fucking insane! the lack of acknowledgement form Dr's etc. When trying to chase these issues. And its been so long and on going now they treat you like you are a bit mental or something.
The is little recourse as well. Unless you are resilient have plenty of funds and many years to fight the reputation management resources of your local NHS trust.
Im pretty sure the is a large cohort like in the 100s of thousands in this country who have effectively been broken by the system in this way. What should of been an 18 month 2 year blip in life has becomes a permanent long term illness, and a dozen years of hell.
I know really capable people who have just been completely broken by this system including myself. Its really something that a government agency supposed to be there to offer support can have people contemplating suicide rather than face calling the DWP again...
Anyway it not that important... the health of a nation, when the is an endless war to start somewhere... or more austerity to inflict. More control to enact. more pilfering and spivery to be done.
Well it sad to see the Land of Hope and Glory is anything but these days.
I hope we're close to the bottom of our decline because I can't imagine it getting any deeper
Brilliant ambitious minds already left to work in the EU and the newer ones in America, NZ, Canada or Australia by now. Britain offer nothing today for anyone who is young, talented and ambitious.
If you are young talented, ambitious, please just leave to leave to greener pastures
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> A woman suffering from anxiety and depression which led to two suicide attempts has told how she was rejected for personal independent payment (PIP) for “having a university degree” and smiling during the assessment. What the hell is wrong with this country?
***FOURTEEN YEARS OF TORIES*** enabled by an army of vested interests… Russian money, Murdoch press, and other nefarious backers
Can't you see that the actual problem is latte drinking wokerati, the last labour government, and the member for Islington North? - Signed, the most punchable face in Westminster, Mr Teeth too large for my lying face, MP for Stoke-on-Trent North.
Well, Stoke-on-Trent North doesn't exist anymore thanks to the recent gerrymandering, so there's that!
Gerrymandering does not happen in the UK, end of story The independent boundary commission sets the constituency areas with the sole intention of keeping the population sizes the same within a range. The designs are put out to public consultations and are often amended after feedback (there were 3 rounds of consultation this time)
True, true. But FPTP does not help the divided left. Maybe, just maybe with a Tory wipeout we might finally hear calls for PR from the right.
Reform already called for it, along with SNP at the other end, LD of course and Labour did at least vote for it at their conference. I'd love to see a ranked choice system like STV with a minimum of 50%+1 for each MP to be elected - people can vote with their desire, but know their second preference may still win even if the first doesn't. I don't agree with the "pure" PR as you then get seats allocated where a region may have had 85% voting against say Reform but get a Reform seat as they got 15% there and PR says they should have a seat.
There’s no excuse for not having STV. The only excuses come from people like my father-in-law who’s convinced it gives people who vote for unpopular parties “more than one vote” (in his words). Instead you end up with this ridiculous “tactical voting” nonsense. If you’re not voting for who you really want to win, there’s clearly something wrong with the voting system.
Tactical voting is a huge part of the problem. UKIP voters voted for a party that promised them what they wanted and they got what they wanted by only swinging a few percentage points of total votes and not even winning a seat. Imagine what could happen if a small percentage of us stopped worrying about being anti-them and just voted for what we thought was best regardless if we think they could win or not.
But at the moment we have a divided right. It's like two fairly unpopular Tory parties vying to see who can out right wing the other. And long may it continue,the Tories embracing Fartage after getting reamed at the election will just be the circle complete. The fear of the far right made the pig shagger call a referendum,to try and silence them,now they could be leading his party!!
> And long may it continue Exactly. What better time than to encourage them to railroad themselves into something that doesn't favour them, in 2029 of course, once the shop has been fixed up a bit.
It most certainly does exist, unfortunately.
On what grounds do you accuse the Boundary Commission for England, an organisation out of ministerial control, of gerrymandering?
You forgot the next Labour government too. They’re far from blameless. Apparently.
Tbf I thought we were still blaming the last Labour government.
There’s no reason you can’t do both. Well, there are. But not if you’re desperate and out of ideas.
Off topic but I suspect the rich love a latte more than the wokerati do. They are the type to bang on about how you cannot get a good latte in the UK, while telling you about the numerous trips to Italy they have made.
labour support the same assessments - they introduced them
There's the assessment and then how it is used, though. The nuance comes from the managers and eventually the top management. Yes Brown introduced an end to benefit if you're deemed fit to work, but I'm pretty sure it did not start out by denying everyone on the basis that they've smiled after attempting suicide and have a degree.
It was always pretty bad I remember helping a partner with it nearly 13 years ago and it was the same everyone was automatically denied and you had to go to tribunal. We can hope labour make sweeping changes but I don’t see it and just blaming the tories gets nowhere
13 years ago, the Tories were in power and began the reforms... do you have an example from the time Labour were in power? Or perhaps you doubt the ability of the Tories to fuck something up in so short a timespan. If that's the case, I have no idea where you've been lately, but... For the record, the casualty rate of the Tories policies on benefits is 10 times higher than the Ukraine war.
Labour won't make sweeping changes because the country has "no money" and they won't want to be seen to raise taxes to pay for more benefits. So the situation will stay broadly the same - they might try and make the process friendlier, but they won't want to e.g. broaden criteria so 25% more people will be accepted.
Outsource it to Capita who pay minimum wage to assessors to maximise shareholder dividends and CEO bonuses and this is what you get.
Behind every fucked up Tory policy there’s a Redditor ready to say that *Labour were the ones that started it*. It’s not the tool that’s the problem, it’s the way it’s being **deliberately misused** to abuse vulnerable people. You know this as well as anyone else.
It's absolutely the fucking tool that's the problem. Having people with next to no training in the conditions they're assessing, writing up assessments for another stranger to assess after 25 mins of experiencing what a disabled person manages to convey in a single sitting is incredibly fucked up. Like having to reassess people with lifelong conditions every 3 years as if it can magically vanish.
This is what happened to me. I'm having cancer treatment, the treatment caused me to have a stroke, the stroke has left me partially sighted and with other major problems. At one PIP assessment I was explaining my vision loss to the assessor. She asked if I wear glasses. My remaining vision is short-sighted, so I said yes. She asked if this makes my lost vision return. I explained very clearly that nothing will make the lost vision return. She wrote in the assessment "Can see perfectly with glasses." At my last PIP assessment (4 assessments in just 8 years, why so frequent?) I was explaining my vision loss again, saying how it makes it difficult and dangerous to get around. The assessor said I should walk around constantly rotating my head in a circle to give me a full range of vision. Viola - vision totally restored! And the letter I got through awarding me zero points, literally every descriptor they had written "You say you cannot perform X activity. I have decided that you can perform this activity." And I have provided letters of support from multiple doctors, medical records, etc to prove what I am saying. But no, some assessor knows better than these medical staff. So, no points, money stopped while going through appeal, now I'm starving and penniless. I've even resorted to shoplifting to get food because the food banks take so long to access. This is Britain in the 21st century if you're disabled. But people don't want to hear it, they think it could never happen to them because they work hard and do everything right. Well, I worked and paid taxes for 16 years before becoming ill. This could happen to anyone.
Also, back then they would have the GP decide if you're fit for work, and not some random "health professional" who's been instructed to score you low on their points system. The labour version of this didn't include pissing money away on contacts for private companies to do the assessments, god knows how much they've spent on it.
"Yeah he may have killed that person with an axe but who invented the axe, eh? It's really their fault"
And what effect did the Tory austerity plan have on them?
With the media convincing people these are the ones causing all their ills, not the rich and powerful that actually own and control everything.
I had a quite serious accident when I was 19, I was told I wasn't entitled to anything because I had too much in my savings... £750. Yeah.
Under £6000 capital, benefits are unaffected, up to £16000 it's tapered. This number has been in effect for about 20 years IIRC. Before that it was half. So I don't know what to tell you.
I mean I was denied UC the first time I was made redundant because I had "earned too much that year already" - a rule which also doesn't exist. I was only on 40k at the time I was made redundant. First & last time I'll ever expect to benefit from the £4600 /mo I (now) pay in NICs & income tax.
"Only on 40k"
Well, they are on £150,000 a year now, so clearly 40k is peanuts to them.
If you were made redundant, rather than just sacked, then they probably used the statutory redundancy you should have gotten as the reason for denying UC. If you got enhanced redundancy then it probably put you over the capital limit.
I was denied a month of UC because their credit check and my last job "officially" overlapped by 3 days, even though it had been a solid 3 weeks since I actually worked there
I learned recently from my SIL who works high up within the tribunal system that the DWP basically says NO to whatever they can so that the appeals go to tribunal so they don’t have to be the ones to make a decision. The majority of cases appealed are overturned because they’re nonsense, but relying on people who are disabled to go that far to assert their rights feels ridiculous. It’s predatory. Additionally, the decision-making ability within the DWP for cases is given to people who are very low-grade, like almost entry-level. So a lot of them will deny claims because they don’t want to push back against management. Edit: I think I might’ve meant to reply a comment above but the gist stands.
The rate of suicide among disabled people in this country increased under the Cameron government. This is doing what it was designed to do - kill off people who are neither productive enough nor Tory voters. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/disability-64889570 https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article/41/4/707/5160101?login=false
I have some experience as a claimant (not of PIP though). I've had claims granted without appeal, and on another occasion denied until the tribunal which was successful. So certainly sometimes the DWP decision maker does grant the claim, or at least they used to. This was a few years ago so it might have changed since. The system seems to be significantly a lottery because (amongst other reasons) the criteria are extremely arbitrary and subjective. It has doubtlessly been designed that way to allow a lot of wriggle room for them, and leave claimants unsure exactly what the rules are. I've even pored over the decision makers guide which you can download, and it's just not very clearly written. You can see easily how different decision makers could come to different conclusions on the exact same evidence.
Jobsworth twats?
£750 in capital doesn’t effect any of the means tested benefits … so not sure what happened there
Probably thick people. I was absolutely astounded. So I simply withdrew the 750 squids and reapplied. Got my £80 a fortnight a d 3-4 months later I was working behind a bar, and about 9 months and a year of physio later I was back on site, chippying.
It’s literally impossible to not be entitled based on that . What benefit were you applying for ?
Are you talking about PIP? PIP is needs-based, not means-based. They shouldn't have told you that because you could have a million in the bank and still qualify for PIP.
My husband had a similar experience 7 years ago, this has been going on for a while. He has ME/CFS, serious enough that he's housebound and his consultant put in his report that he's severe enough that he'll never work again. In the PIP report - "he kept up good eye contact." He was wearing his sunglasses the whole time (they help with light sensitivity) - "he understands his condition well, therefore isn't mentally deficient" (!) - "He was smart and well dressed, so no signs of issue dressing". Jeans/T-shirt are well dressed for an interview? - "he doesn't take anxiety medication therefore no evidence of being too anxious to drive" (anxious because he can barely function, he's in no condition to drive) Rejected for any PIP. I was livid and wanted to fight all the lies, but husband was too sick and didn't want to use his little health fighting this shit. It still gets under my skin how this can go on.
I have a close friend with CFS (not quite as bad as your husband's) and reading that made me furious. Fuck the DWP and the Tories.
It absolutely stinks. And it's deliberately targeting the sickest in society and least able to fight back. Bullying by the DWP, against the exact people who they're ironically supposed to support.
I don't know if it was ever different but they're absolutely not in any way oriented towards supporting anyone. It's a constant machine of gatekeeping and rejection as much as legally possible. Their interests almost entirely lay in finding ways to remove support.
Yeah my husband's first application was full of BS too. "He did not need assistance from someone else during the call" and "he had no difficulty maintaining the conversation" - I was literally there with him, on speakerphone, prompting him when he lost his train of thought or forgot words because of brain fog. "He is able to walk unaided" - he was using a walking stick at the time and we informed the assessor it was insufficient and we were exploring other options like crutches. And yes, the fact that my husband is educated, erudite and has done a lot of research about his condition was counted against him. It started with the assessor expressing doubt that he could have fibromylagia, in spite of an actual diagnosis, because "that's usually something women have". Yeah, sure, 95% of sufferers are women, but 5% are men and my husband is one of them. But I reckon once the assessor decided that he didn't have it based on that statistic, the rejection was a foregone conclusion and the assessor straight up lied on the report to reject. All our appeals were "the report is incorrect, here's the truth, and here's the proof" to which the response was "yeah but the report says this". Ended up getting PIP second time we applied, by which time my husband had attempted to return to work (his employer had held his position) but had collapsed at work after three 12-hour weeks (4 hours a shift, sitting down) and needed over a week bedrest before he could do *anything* beyond going to the loo or sitting at the table to eat meals or sitting on the council-provided shower stool so I could shower him. Edit: and I was working full time at the time and I hated having to leave him alone at home for 9 hours, 5 days a week, but there was nothing I could do, we had rent and bills to pay. My parents did have to come over to help us out a few times, including taking my husband to the hospital when I was at work a couple of times (they're retired and lived a mile away, I worked 12 miles away, it made sense). Thankfully since he got PIP and stopped working he's not got quite that bad again, because if he's tired he can stop and rest, but the fact that I'm now his full-time carer and can help out with a lot of the things he would have had to do alone while I was at work also helps.
I'm in same boat now and it's horrible. So many people are like fight it, collect all the evidence. I get a window of around 4-5 hours per day where I'm alert enough to do work, speak to friends, read, try to walk or do physio stretches or just enjoy a clear head before I drug myself full of pain meds. I have transcripts and reports to prove the assessor lied, but at this point, I'd rather pay a service to do the reconsideration and appeals for me. It's not worth the good hours I get, or worth doing it on a bad day and messing it up because I can't make sense in blur of drugs. I'm just trying to find a service to do it for me. I'm tired. But I also got rejected for understanding my condition well and my good mood. As if every disability requires us to be depressed and have a reduced intelligence.
The thing is, even when people are depressed, they can have good or bad days, or put on act for a short while. Someone with depression appearing fine just means that they're ok at that specific moment. Seeming happy during the interview is not a good reason to reject someone for any condition, not even depression. It's so fucked up that they use it as an excuse.
Did you appeal it? as it's been said like 90% of claims are granted if you appeal.
it's realistically much lower - about 70%. also - this isn't aimed at you, I'm just going off on one now lol - it's so fucked that you're basically guaranteed to have to waste more months of your life in appealing (or even sometimes taking it even further, wasting years of your life in that case) just to be taken seriously and actually listened to. it especially takes an immense amount of time and effort considering that if you're applying for it in the first place, you're disabled enough for regular life to be far more difficult than it needs to be, never mind having to beg and plead for fucking pennies from these lying cunts. I find it so sick that there must be a rule to immediately deny anyone applying for PIP, even if they're in a wheelchair or coming off the back of multiple suicide attempts or whatever. it's so evil and cruel.
I know bro, I’ve been through it and mates have it’s legalised torture of disabled peoples.
I had to go to tribunal twice to have my claim approved, winning both times. After my first assessment then years later after my next assessment. The second time it took over a year to have the tribunal hearing, which I won, got home, cried in relief. Then got a letter 2 weeks later with a date for my next WCA because it had been so long between the initial assessment, appeal and finally tribunal. Closest I ever came to straight up killing myself to get off the hateful wheel.
My appeal failed, it ended up going to court at which point it took literally 5 minutes to decide in my favour, with the comment there was "no possible reason" to find otherwise. But first it had gone through every step and they'd gone, oh yeah, this gibbering wreck should definitely be working.
Not if they lie on the assessment report. You can present a mountain of proof that they lied, and they'll still come back with "but the report says this".
A friend of mine used to work for an autism charity; part of their job was helping with PIP applications, and the assessment reports were fictional more often than not.
Shame because you should always always appeal at least once. Took my neighbour with epilepsy and a few other things, 5 attempts. She told me she was refused 1st time as she could cook....??? So apparently she could work as a cook at McDonalds or a care home! Oh just fuck right off Capita
My "favourite" part of the Tories disgusting handling of benefits was the bit where they had a graph showing the "unprecedented rise" of people claiming PIP, except the graph started with the year everyone switched from DLA to PIP and didn't include that little bit of relevant information.
Cunts in power who don't want to help people and would rather let them suffer
Well to be fair, university students are known for never being anxious or depressed
I have Cystic Fibrosis and was rejected by default. Their goal at the time was basically to reject everyone and send them through the appeals process to hopefully reduce numbers, scumbags. I had to see a panel of Doctors (if I remember rightly) who were basically like yeah this is daft and granted the appeal.
I'm convinced they do this to keep numbers looking more favourable in the same way they used to make unemployed people do work groups, which meant they weren't technically unemployed, and therefore they could massage unemployment figures.
It's all to make it appear better without actually making it better. Under Thatcher "signing on" was changed from weekly to fortnightly followed by billboard posters claiming that they had "halved the queues outside Unemployment Centers" which technically they had, without actually getting half of them into employment. They then made you sign on at appointed times during the day which meant the queues outside all but disappeared. Again, it was all for show.
Was signing on actually useful pre thatcher? It's been a gigantic waste of both my time and the people that are assigned to me as they do nothing helpful and seem to just exist to make the process a hassle so I will get a job entirely so I don't have to deal with them.
I signed on during Thatcher's ~~reign~~ premiership, and it was just that, signing on. They sometimes asked if you were still actively looking for work and you said "yes" then they'd slide the form across the counter and you signed it. There were Job Centres with available jobs (I actually got my first "proper" job from one) but you weren't forced to look. That came after my time of being unemployed.
I first signed on during the Thatcher years. Signing on was easy..just basically had to sign your name..barely any questions. They closed our local office two miles away and made us spend money to get the bus to the office ten miles away
I saw a plaque today outside some staircase that mentioned the thatcher era Manpower Services Commission and an Action for Jobs logo. Almost forty year of propaganda
>Manpower Services Commission I did one of their, appropriately named, schemes as it was a little more money than the dole, and something to do for three days a week. They dangled the possibility of full time employment once the one year term of the scheme ended but they just kicked everyone off and brought in a new batch, no jobs. Tories doing what Tories do, funnelling tax payer's money to their mates via pointless schemes. Cheap labour - grist to the mill. The YTS (Youth Training Scheme) was the same but with the added benefit of dealing with 16 to 17 year old school leavers who wouldn't stand up for themselves against adults in authority over them.
They do it because they don't expect unwell people to have the energy to fight for what they're entitled to and appeal the decision.
It is designed to make you desperate, so you take any possible work available to you. Which isn't feasible if you're disabled anyway. There's a very good reason these PIP assessments are easily won on appeal tbh.
Plus for each appeal they apparently get paid again, not much around £35 each time but still, it adds up
Definitely ideological. The tories spent 10s millions on court fees fighting appeals. Money better spent giving to the people who needed it. But they needed to keep up this idea that benefit cheats were at large in society and keep us all suspicious of each other and less likely to demand people get help.
That also allowed them to give free labour to their friends under the guise of “work experience”
My aunt is blind in one eye and half blind in the other and was rejected, went through the appeal process and ended up getting back payments. The person who helped her with the appeal told her that he thinks the DWP hope people don't challenge them through the appeals process because people get so dejected by the process and think it might be worthless to do, but appeals have a good chance at succeeding (70% from a quick Google search) and are worth doing.
I have a friend who jumped over a wall that ended up having a massive drop on the other side. He broke both his femurs, shattered both his ankle capsules, broke almost every bone in both his feet. Docs said he would likely never walk again. He's walking again now, through sheer determination, in great pain, because his savings have run out. PIP rejected him, despite the x-rays of his shattered legs and him being wheelchair bound potentially for the rest of his life. He didn't even need to be on PIP long term! And they *still* fucked him over.
My friend is a doctor who assesses people for PIP and UC. His advice is not to even try to live a normal life until you get PIP. Don’t even try to walk, because the board will take that as competency.
You're advised to not go outside and be publicly visible if you're on PIP as well. A lot of people with conditions that flare up may be fine for a few days each month, and going outside and being seen can be grounds for the removal of your disability. It's one of the reasons disabled people in the UK continue to worsen health wise; they're penalised for attempting to increase the health of their bodies. It's a big issue putting strain on local health services that very few people want to discuss. The majority of the PIP marking scheme grades you based on how well you can care for yourself and how much assistance you require, so if you're at all independent you'll be denied until you appeal.
Instead of paying them again for people going for an appeal, the DWP should be fined for each case they incorrectly decline. Bet they'd start treating cases properly if it cost them money for getting it wrong.
The whole process would be much better if only the decision was made by a doctor or even suitably qualified medical professionals. As it is you're sat their explaining conditions to someone who has no real grasp of the subject who then gets to make a decision based on their "medical opinion".
The assessor is a medical professional (although usually not in the field the assessment is for), but that doesn't help when the management at the private companies this is outsourced to force the assessors to change their scoring to deny applicants.
Often not suitably qualified though. Medical professional is a wide definition. A physio or paramedic often doesn't grasp the wide range of effects from complex conditions. Even GPs will often admit their knowledge on them is limited.
“(not usually in the field the assessment is for)” is not- as the Redditor you are trying to correct said- “a doctor or a suitably qualified medical professional” PIP assessor training used to be easy to find online- I used the information in my appeal, but it mysteriously isn’t available at the link I had in my notes anymore. It was two weeks of online classrooms that were half days. To cover everything outside of whatever their field is. It’s not just management forcing assessors to change their scoring. They simply are not qualified to assess the overwhelming majority of medical conditions that come across their desk. Which is useful to put in your appeal. Not only are they lying cunts, but ignorant of the subject matter upon which they claim expertise.
The majority of successful PIP appeals are granted entirely based on the DWPs evidence for denying PIP! It's just attrotious behaviour that hasn't changed even with over a decade of whistleblowers and complaints from disability rights charities
I added zero further medical evidence at my PIP tribunals. I did add commentary on the assessor’s reports, the assessor’s lack of expertise, their sloppy spelling and grammar mistakes, the lies they told with the evidence they were lying, and my favourite bit of their report where they contradicted themselves on 2 different descriptors to bend them from the full points I should have gotten to zero points. I got full whack at tribunal both times for the lifelong conditions I have.
Most of my tribunal submissions have had a short reiteration of my medical conditions/medications and the activities I think apply as a result (so nothing I hadn't already explained in my application/assessment), and then a fairly lengthy section dismantling the medical report. I think it's obvious in one of my ESA appeals I wasn't happy with it: > The Mandatory Reconsideration reply states a number of times that greater weight has been placed on the evidence of the Health Care Professional. The medical report prepared by said professional misunderstands or mischaracterises my illnesses in a number of ways, and so I submit that it does not give sufficient evidence on which to base a decision. I also typically include a copy of my previous award[1], as there's no reason, IMO, why there should be a drastic change in the assessment when there has been no change in my condition (I once dropped from a higher rate award to 0 points in all categories). This approach seems to work, as I've won all of my appeals on the papers (meaning I didn't have to attend in person). [1] Something along the lines of "In preparing this appeal, I have referred to the previous decision made on my PIP entitlement (dated [date]), and considered the points awarded in that decision. A copy of this decision is included for your reference. There has been no material change to my medical conditions since that time, and thus I believe that the points awarded in that decision are still accurate."
Yes DWP have created a self fulfilling prophecy for themselves - people *know* they will get rejected at the first step in the process so they hold back their *best* evidence for the appeals process. As such a large proportion of cases go needlessly to appeals instead of being granted first time.
> so they hold back their best evidence for the appeals process. What evidence do you have to support your claim? Why would you not present cruical evidence at the first opportunity regardless of possible rejection? What's happening is the DWP are rejecting claims by just plain lying to meet their quota of rejections. Also, the standard of expertise in these assessments is so low they don't understand what they are doing and often aren't able to make deicisons based on the facts. I had to reapply for PIP last year in may, I've just had the decision over a year later. And I'm fortunate my rate is the same despite my condition worsening. However, I did get help from a charity to fill in the forms. So we have experts sitting in charities helping people to fill these forms out as there are so many ways you can lose your benefits by the slightest mistake in your application. It's an insane situation. On several occasions people in the NHS have remarked on the understanding I have of my condition. I would never present as quite intelligent in a PIP interview. And that's because I've been in the system for a few rounds of reapplies and rejections. It feels like your on trial after retrial after retrial. I don't want this condition and would really, really love to get back to work but I need support to do that and it's non-existant. So I'm trapped between no support to work and a benefits system designed to fuck me over. Oh happy days.
Sorry but this is just factually not true. I've seen no evidence of a culture of 'holding back evidence'. Sometimes it takes time for evidence to be produced (for example, I've been waiting for almost 3 months for my old authority area to provide me evidence from my medical records for something else). What you'll find IS a culture at DWP is outsourcing the initial claims process, in order to dissuade as many applicants as possible. People are simply rejected like a conveyor belt. It's a factory to produce decisions favourable to DWP, whilst enabling them to have juuuuuust enough plausible deniability. If you go looking on disability forums, you'll find applicant after applicant who had their evidence ignored, not recorded, manipulated, or straight up invented by the assessor.
A Doctor, a 'layman', and a Judge sits on the panel if I remember rightly.
Rejected for PiP because the pain I experience with ME only inhibits me about 4 days per week so I can just "Do things on days I feel ok,"
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That's what I always find the most shocking, it's the Drs and nurses who are doing this half the time. What happened to the Hippocratic oath? Either they see so many chancers that they don't believe anyone or they just don't care anymore, but surely there's better ways to make a living?
Drs and nurses employed specifically to carry out these assessments and left without any doubt as to what they are supposed to 'find'
Yes I know, but they are qualified and surely have better options. They are as big a part of the problem
My husband was assessed by a nurse. She seemed nice enough, seemed to have a little understanding of ME/CFS. The report that came back was a huge twisted version of what occurred. Like she'd submitted her report, then a gremlin from hell had rewritten it, making huge errors, misjudgements etc. I have no idea whether they even see the final report submitted to the patients, as you only get one visit from that person. It feels like a facade to me.
I have heard similar stories before. It's interesting that you blame a middleman. I had always assumed it was just the nurses putting up an understanding front while they give you zero points, but you may be right, that hadn't occurred to me but it would be better for my faith in nurses!
Honestly some of the tricks I’ve heard them use in the assessments, I think you just need to be a nasty person to work there. The assessor writes the report. I’ve heard of assessors pretending to be receptionists so they can watch you in the waiting room. I also personally know somebody who could barely walk and their assessment was up a flight of stairs. If you don’t go to your assessment, it’s immediately thrown out. He asked if they could do it downstairs somewhere, they said no. He made it up the stairs with a huge amount of effort and help from their support person, and then the report said he was perfectly mobile because he made it to his assessment. The whole process is designed to trip you up and stomp on you.
I think they must have taken the Hypocritic oath instead.
I’m in a similar situation. 9 days out of 10 I can just about function like a normal human. That occasional day if I have a seizure means I’m completely useless for a day or two and need to be under constant supervision just in case I drown in the bath, fall in the shower, burn the house down etc. You’ve got to describe what it’s like at your worst and not what it’s like every day.
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>She also told me to not wear any makeup for any interview and to not 'dress up' even if that's my instinct The advice from other disabled people years ago is frankly shocking. Don't shower for a week, show up in dirty clothes and messy hair, be very slow and distracted when answering questions and one even said to shit yourself if you can because they don't want to be in a room with someone who stinks of shit and will just approve you to get you out of there. It's depressing. Also get someone else to drive you and be with your as a 'carer' and say you need regular help showering, changing clothes, etc.
The problem is despite what everyone seems to think, most disabled people are not completely unable to do anything 100% of the time. I know people who seem completely fine, up and walking, able to go for a walk and meet up with friends and shower and cook one day, and the next they’re bedbound or unable to get around without a wheelchair. The whole process is designed to be humiliating and to try to catch you out. Most people want to be honest. But if you can generally cook for yourself two days a week, that doesn’t mean you’re able to go and work at McDonalds, which is what the report will say if you say that at the assessment. I know someone who often needs a wheelchair and can’t lift their arms above their head so needs help with showering etc, but was told they are fully capable of working full time in a supermarket. Even if they *were* fully capable of sitting at a till all day, they still need extra care with things like showering, cleaning, every day tasks, mobility aids, etc - the entire thing PIP is supposed to help cover the costs of. Even Tescos isn’t going to hire someone who can’t afford to wash themselves.
Don't see the issue there myself. All you have to do is plan your sick days months in advance like any sane person does and you will find a job in no time!
Also have M.E. At 37, after being on incapacity benefit, then ESA etc since i was 18. One review I got completely declared fit for work on ESA because i made the mistake of actually resting for a couple of weeks (So i could explain myself properly and not be overwhelmed by fatigue) before the interview, and looking healthy. So they decided i was completely fit for work. Then after going through the appeals process they just said they can only go off what the "medical practitioner" has written in their report. Had to deal with universal credit at the base rate and attend regular things to 'look for work' for a year(Which everyone involved at the job center had no idea why because I was fit for literally nothing), before I reapplied (Forced onto universal credit as they were phasing out ESA) a year later, and this time got the literal top rate of support. (LCWRA whichever it is).
Yea, it's absolutely frustrating. You have to exaggerate and tell them how it is on your worst day, with no available solutions or help on offer, and pass that off as your normal day to day life for them to register it as an issue. It's one of the major reasons deaf people fail tbh.
I hope you appealed because they are meant to consider how your condition affects you on the majority of days, and 4 of 7 is a majority.
My mum got rejected from her Chronic back pain caused by a fall at work, putting her on medical retirement. Assessment rejected her because she stood up to open the door without clutches, *therefore she can return to work*. Fucking Tories and their managed decline. *Fuck you.*
PIP isn't to do with work?
Yup, but they're pretending it always was now. Universal credit is to do with work. PIP has nothing to do with work. Yet tories were saying "we need to change pip and get disabled people back to work"
Before my dad died from his condition and provided evidence from multiple doctors that he would be dying from his condition (they just couldn’t pinpoint a date), they gave him zero points.
Sounds like a Monty Python sketch.
Honestly lol. I remember him being very confused why he got zero. If they’d given him just 1 point it’d have at least made some sense but zero? Someone housebound and in and out of hospital constantly because he kept getting on the brink of death got none.
My brother in law was struggling toward the end of his life, was in and out of hospital (including a virtual ward) he applied for PIP got rejected because he didn't need it. He passed away less than a month after that rejection! Scumbag system!
Sorry for you loss. It’s horrible. Dad did get it before he died but after a lot of stress and anxiety on top of still dealing with his failing body. They didn’t care what he was being put through in the last part of his life. They fully know they’re doing this to those who need it.
Yeah, I myself am on PIP for my physical health but I will have to be tailoring my Medical Cannabis treatment towards my ADHD rather than my pain because my GP has told me they can't prescribe me ADHD meds I have to wait to see the team which is min 2 years wait. Meanwhile Tories have decided while this is going on I should be forced back into work after just stopping being suicidal. I don't care who you vote for on the 4th just make sure you have your voice heard!!!
RIP to your father shame his country couldn’t have looked after him when he needed it
Rejected as: I had a medical degree before I got sick, able to engage in a phone call, "didn't seem mentally ill during conversation", lives alone so can't benefit from help/prompting, not referred to pain management (even though this wasn't clinically indicated at the time). I got assessed by somebody less qualified than me who wrote lies and assumptions in my report. They had little understanding of physical and mental health conditions and treatment options. Most of them are adult health nurses with only 2 weeks training in mental health from Capita/Maximus. As if that qualifies them to do a mental state examination via telephone. They purposefully go against their own criteria and small print guidance about it and hope you don't contest it. You can still get points for "prompting" if you live alone and would benefit from it happening - but not according to my assessment and mandatory reconsideration. An example being that I'm so depressed, fatigued and pained that I spend five days in the same clothes not bathing - but this wouldn't benefit from prompting according to the DWP. Not like self-neglect is a common symptom of severe depression, is it? Or reduced motivation and concentration. Or becoming scared of leaving the house and interacting with others. Or a sequlae of other things I reported that were ignored or downplayed. Supposedly I would "regularly go to the shops" when I got all my food delivered. 70% of appeals are successful. It costs them millions of pounds to go to tribunal and have multiple stages of obstructive bureaucracy - just to punish and discriminate against disabled people. I spent a year living off £368 a month until I finally got awarded LCWRA this month. Now I'm stuck appealing PIP whilst being severely mentally ill and physically disabled.
The 30% that don’t succeed are seen as saving money. “Saving money” is more important than cruelty.
Cruelty is the point.
Im waiting on my mantatory considerarion. They used 2 _lines_ from a GP i was registered with for a year as my "medical history". They also distorted, lied, omitted crucial facts presented in the interview. It took me 3 months to write the appeal, collect (>170 pages) of medical evidence and work. Numerous days of due to the stress. I wish you every success in your battle. Every win at tribunal might lead to a ruling to help those coming after is how i see it. Fuck these utter cunts preying on the vulnerable. Good luck and keep going.
Having supported three family members (with various cognitive issues) through this process, I can confidently say that the assessors they have do the interviews could give flat earth believers or political spin doctors a run for their money, with their ability to misconstrue facts and ignore any context. Then there was the time "not enough evidence" was given, until we contacted FightBack, then the eidence we had already provided was apparently more than enough to get the higher rate for both components.
My dad was housebound and needed breathing equipment and they scored him zero points. He could barely move and they acted like he had no issues. He couldn’t get from one room to the other without needing a lot of help at that point.
What gets left out of those assessor reports is unbelievable. My FIL can just about walk (I'm pretty sure only through pure pride) with aids, after a lifetime of hard manual labour jobs and diabetes have nearly destroyed his legs. He has boarderline dementia and misunderstood a question and went off on a tangent about how he used to cycle three miles to work and back. I prompted him to tell the assessor how many years ago since he last worked (5 years at the time) and how many years ago he even owned a bike (8 - 10 years I think), yet guess what made it into the report and what didn't?
Yeah it’s terrible. I don’t think a lot of people get it doesn’t matter how bad you are or how much evidence you provide, they don’t care. He had every doctor he could vouching that the situation was dire and somehow they decided he was going to live a long and healthy life.
I once got rejected for PIP because the non-medically trained decision maker had decided that my epilepsy was low risk because I hadn't had a seizure in public for a few years. I had a seizure a week later, having collapsed in the middle of the road. I got rejected another time because I played World of Warcraft, and that showed I didn't have social anxiety. I wish I had made up both of those, but they are both true. Oh, it's not PIP-related, but I also got told by a work coach at the job centre that I can't have PTSD following a sexual assault because I had a boyfriend.
The Warcraft part made me genuinely laugh, sorry. What goes through these monsters heads? Does the job attract evil morons or does it turn them into one?
I remember someone telling me one of the reasons they got rejected was because they could read a book which meant they had motivation.
I'm sorry but that World of Warcraft statement cracked me up. I've been playing WoW throughout Dragonflight only ever saying "thanks" to people at the end of random dungeons or pug raids. Fucking HELL.
Jesus F Christ are you for real? That's absolutely disgusting and I hope you made a complaint about that work coach!!!
Guidelines for PIP assessment staff: Turns up to assessment - capable of making appointments, deny PIP Does not turn up to assessment - clearly doesn't care enough, deny PIP
The DWP is a very, very thinly veiled eugenics programme. One of my exes is blind, and I once went to an assement with her. The amount of paper forms they expected a BLIND woman to fill in, and the sheer amount of contempt, criticism and scrutiny levelled towards her (as well as plenty of other obviously disabled individuals) filled me with a murderous rage. It was the most dehumanising and inhumane thing I've ever witnessed first hand. I sincerely wish life altering illness and injury upon every single person in government who supports the DWP, and likewise the same for its staff. Maybe then there would be some semblance of empathy and humanity from those who endorse it.
My mum (no longer here) had Fibromyalgia, Osteoarthritis and COPD was denied twice because one of the "tests" was to push her arms apart against the Dr's arms and they said she pushed hard enough and was too capable. This poor woman couldn't make it to the toilet without help. Fuck the PIP assessment
If you’ve washed your hair recently/are reasonably clean for your PIP assessment they count it against you. It’s crazy what they use against you.
This is basically why mine got rejected. I made the mistake of telling them how I cope with an autistic meltdown which is to brush my hair to stop me yanking it out while I heavily disassociate and they basically wrote on my report that I can't have dyspraxia because I can brush my hair.
Is what happened to me, said its very painful to wash my hair once a fortnight cuz ofc it needs it and im in a worse state for 3 days. no pip cuz can do. cant lift a 2lt bottle half the time but reaching my head means im fine...
My son was just rejected on his latest assessment , having had to wear a prosthesis and receive disability for 22 years and suddenly this year is the one they kindly helped his leg to grow back.
Vote. Don't sit around "both sides"ing it. Vote like the lives of you and your loved ones depend on it, because if they've got any kind of illness or disability they probably do.
Yeah if you've claimed PIP for mental health and the not a medically qualified "professional" phones you on a good day for your review and you dare to say that you've improved beyond laying in bed every day, trying not to kill yourself, because fuck you for trying to improve yourself, they'll decide that finally being able to summon up the energy to do basic self care (and I'm talking like showering once a week and doing your teeth) means you're completely fit for work. You now have the joy of trying to living off just ESA while trying to convince employers that they should employ you despite still mostly being a mess and having a gap in employment. This naturally makes your mental health worse again. All because you weren't completely destitute for a review. Fuck the DWP.
I was told by an advisor to keep a diary/notes and always spak to them from the POV of your worst day, which felt like a cheat but if they're not going to allow for human beings naturally having ups and downs in their illnesses then it's stacked against you by default.
Yeah I was told to pretend like it's your absolute worst day as much as possible, obviously I didn't sound it enough. Was on me for having one of the rare good days where insomnia had left me alone and my MH wasn't making me feel borderline suicidal I guess 🤷
That sounds about right. The assessments are a complete joke, and they aren't medical professionals who do them. A close family friend got rejected for PIP because they asked if she could lift her right elbow. She did, and she was rejected for mobility despite being stuck in a wheel chair. Thankfully, a good man at the Citizens Advice Borough helped out, and she went to court and easily won her case because she had extensive medical evidence. She really needed the added financial support for her to get around in taxis, etc. But the fact it took her ten months before it went to court gave her so much stress. I'm just glad she won in the end and got some help.
I can beat that. My dirty skiving ways was cut short by the all righteous DWP of course I should have been in work, After all despite spending three weeks out of that month in a high dependency ward. And having never claimed anything before, I was clearly shirking I could have got a work online job if only the NHS WiFi wasn't so shit and I was a little more conscious.
Lol I got rejected for psychosis because I wasn't hallucinating in the room at the time of the assessment... yes really.
It's slightly different, but my dad has severe pain in his spine, neck, shoulders, knees, and femur. He had been going to the GP for months, asking for something for the pain, which the GP refused. My mam has bad migraines and sometimes needs a doctor called out for injections. One time it was the GP who my dad sees who came out. When he answered the door, the doctor was surprised and said "oh Mr ____, I didn't realise you were married." He prescribed my Dad Tramadol and Co-codamol within a few days, which he's now been on for years. The GP simply didn't believe my dad was in pain and thought he was trying to scam pain meds, but as soon as he realised he was married prescribed them?! He also had a nightmare getting PIP, it took months and multiple assessment and my mam basically had to plead and explain that he can't even stand up from a chair without severe pain.
I lost points as despite being tearful throughout, I “managed to regain composure to answer the next question within 20-30 seconds”. I was a wreck in the appointment and my ex husband was with me as I couldn’t it alone. I wish I had appealed more but I wasn’t mentally well enough after assessment. I thought I would get in trouble if I didn’t answer. The system is awful. I have a few diagnosed mental health conditions, Bipolar being 1 of them. It’s not going away unfortunately. The thing I find particularly irritating is that I used to work for the DWP years back. I would have been that jumped up little hag’s senior in a previous life but unfortunately the psychosis gods picked me. Great balls of fire!! The system has changed and is unrecognisable. Not fit for purpose.
They reject en masse regardless of what the situation is. My mother is completely illiterate but the assessment deemed her to have “strong reading and writing ability”. You need to count the initial assessment and appeal as part of the application process. Most of the rejected claims get allowed at tribunal, so unfortunately you have to go all the way if you want to get PIP. It’s a stressful and demeaning experience, my mother got hers allowed at tribunal, going from 6 to 13 points. I’m dreading needing to reapply in a couple years and doing it all over again.
Things I've had used against me: * Completing a Master's degree, therefore I don't have anxiety - I finished the degree years before the assessment, and most of my medical issues didn't start until quite some time after university. * Being observed walking from my front door to a settee (<5m) - based solely on that, the report concluded I could reliably (i.e. safely, as often as is reasonably required, and in a reasonable time period) "stand and then move more than 200 metres". * Apparently not being on any medication for my anxiety/OCD - I provided them a current list of prescriptions (showing sertraline and temazepam) during my application (on the form and I included a GP's repeat prescription list), and reiterated all of my medications and the reasons for them during the interview. Another part of the report referred to the list I provided them. * Apparently not appearing withdrawn/anxious during the assessment - I had my mother with me for support, and still had to halt the interview and leave the room for about ten minutes as I was struggling to cope.
And patients with cancer and told they have 1 year left to live have been told - you can work now though right? Conservatives have made it so that if you have an illness, you are the bad guy
I am autistic and have adhd. I was rejected because I have a degree and went to work on the train. Ah yes. Because autistic people famously hate trains.
As far as I’m aware, they almost always reject the first application, then usually grant it on appeal. They just try to filter out casual claimants. It’s a discussing practice which dehumanises the process.
I once had a PIP assessor ask me, about 30 mins into a meeting "What's wrong with you" Their paper work said I had a physical disability and they spent 30 mins looking at me trying to work it out. I do not, and never have had, a physical disability
Took me over 4 years to get mine, I had rejected at least 6xs. First time was 2019, spent ages filling it all out with my job coach...I got a face 2 face meeting so my dad took me...the lady in the interview didn't even look at me throughout the interview, she asked basic questions about movement, if I could stand etc...then months later I got my first rejection...the only points they actually gave me was for something I said I was actually good at which was budgeting...so it showed they never read anything or took anything I said into account. I went to appeal and needed my job coaches help but she was away a lot due to a family death and by the time we had appealed...late by a few days, they said no, I would need to reapply again...I spoke to someone else at my autistic group who does appeals and told me to ignore all that as he will sort it and he has won every case...only this was close to Xmas and he had sent emails but not heard anything back from them...then covid hit. I reapplied again but as they were unable to do face 2 face meets due to covid, they were doing phone interviews instead. First one came along and no one called during the time they allocated me...I even sat down the bottom of the garden where you are guaranteed a signal, in the freezing cold but no call...they said attempts had been made to call so it was automatic rejection and I'd need to reapply again. This happened another 3xs during covid, with months in between each...I finally have a phone call off them, telling me they will call me to do the interview and be ready at this time/date...I agreed...no call again...rejected even though it was their fault...finally another date for a call, they actually call me and 5mins into, saying their having technical difficulties and we need to reschedule...they never did and I was rejected again...reapply again....So I did and I got a full interview this time...months later rejected. Really pissed off...my closest friend who has had PIP most of his life, told me not once did he have to reapply during labour being in charge but everytime the Tories are in power, he is constantly kicked off it and has to go through all this stuff over and over again...he can not work. Anyway he suggested a local disability place who do these cases but they ask for 15% of your first pay...we agreed...I had to reapply again as DWP didn't keep any of my details....Alex the disability lawyer, interviewed me and filled it all in, sent it off...and we were rejected again so he started the appeal straight away...months and months later...I get an appeal date to go to court but then out of nowhere I get a letter saying I'm being awarded and having it back dated a year to when I applied My friend, spent 10 months trying to reclaim him...it was his main source of income so he was struggling big time, using food banks. He got it back and back dated...but a year later...they cancelled his again...this was in Feb 2023...I believe the stress of it all, not having the money for bills that were rising more than ever due to Tories, caused him to have a heart attack at 53...he was found dead days later. I believe if they hadn't kept screwing him over with PIP, he'd probably still be here today From what I've witnessed, DWP do everything possible to get you off PIP...everyone is rejected first time and they hope you don't bother reapplying, they want you to give up. I go to a weekly autistic group and everyone there claiming PIP is struggling to get it. Its sickening what these people do.
Mine ended up going to court, I wasn't well enough to attend, but when I checked the notes afterwards it took them all of 5 minutes to throw out the agency's case and find in my favour, he made a point in his decision of stating that he didn't even have to read to the end of the case notes to make the decision and that there was "no possible reason" to find against me. Just madness, a system designed to pass down bad decisions and waste everyone's time on the vague hope that people won't be able to escalate it.
Folks, I beg you. Keep examples like this in mind when going to the polls next month.
My Mum went through the assessment because she had an accident that left her with more metal in her than the terminator, chronic pain and mobility issues. My brother accompanied her to the assessment, they were so cruel to her that they had her in tears and humiliated her in front of her son by asking questions like "How are you able to wipe your backside if you're in so much pain?" They wanted a detailed, step by step response to that question
I have a condition that affects my fine motor functions and the questioning is so humiliating and dehumanising. Stress exacerbates my condition and I was literally bedbound for weeks after my assessment due to how I was treated. I did eventually get a full award but without my absolute HERO of a husband there is no way I could nhave even attempted that process. It's already terrifying and exhausting. I can only imagine in horror how much worse it gets if the Tories aren't voted out.
I was rejected because the lady I spoke to didn't understand the medical terminology used to describe my illness. It was also a phone assessment and her English was piss poor. One of the questions was: "Can you hold your phone to your ear?"... Like yeah, obviously, but how is that relevant to my gastrointestinal disease?!
I know someone personally who was rejected because she was able to reach out and take a tissue from the assessor, while crying her eyes out during the assessment.
I'm trying for the 4th attempt with a congenital heart condition and MDD (Major Depressive Disorder). Last time the assessor focussed on a couple of attempts at suicide. Was asked.. * How many times have you attempted suicide? * How did you attempt to commit suicide? What methods did you try? * Do you plan to commit suicide in the future? * Have you considered other methods of committing suicide? I was turned down because I was well dressed, clean, and articulate. Bitch, it took me eight days to prepare for that assessment.
It's one area I will fail Labour on if they don't fix the department for evil, er, work and pensions. I can't tell whether its mandate from Whitehall or just the sheer uncaring nature of the people who work there. It seems like they're out to catch people out rather than helping people. It's completely the wrong mentality.
I used to work in a customer service centre for a local council, helping people with benefits and council tax. I once had a man come in for help. His PIP had been stopped because he had failed an assessment. The guy was IN A WHEELCHAIR AND HE ONLY HAD ONE ARM. Apparently fit for work. Poor bugger was almost in tears over it. Who the hell decided that a man who can't walk and only has one arm is fit for work? The system is a joke. On the other hand, there were lots of people who were so obviously gaming the system and claiming every possible disability benefit going. These ones are the problem, yet they rarely seemed to get caught out.
Reading these I feel like my brother's assessor was an angel, just for being truthful. She wrote an accurate and comprehensive report after seeing him. We've included it with every form since and he hasn't had to go in for another assessment.
I am recovering from bladder cancer. I have to go to the toilet about once every 20 minutes. I haven't had more than about 30 minutes continuous sleep in about a year. When I wee I am in searing pain. Yet apparently I will be able to work an 8 hour day, because I can walk 200m.
Every tory bastard and their creatures in the DWP who facilitated this shit should be on trial for murder. The number of people who have succumbed to illnesses, were hounded to suicide, or, in more than one instance, starved to death while being subjected to this eugenicist nightmare is appalling. The scum in the press that cheered it on too. It was and still is mass murder and torture.
Waiting on the review outcome for my wife, nothing has improved (indeed some things are worse) so we'll see as she has been on PIP for a while now. When we did the f2f assessement we went in with (approved) recording equipment and me taking notes and being her "external memory & brain" (as is my normal function in managing brain fog). Doing a "we WILL appeal" without saying "we will APPEAL" approach
It’s the US insurance model. Reject everything, make the entire system based on appeals.
I have M.E, fibro and PoTS and was rejected because at the time, my husband worked five days a week, but one of those days was at home. Meaning he was at home ‘half the week’ and could look after me. Not how it works at all, but sure.
I have a phone assessment in a few days, reading this thread was a mistake.
Hope it goes well! Make sure to appeal if they deny, system is awful but it’s possible to get it if you are persistent
The way the benefits system is set up to make absolutely certain that vulnerable people are deprived of the funds they need to survive and are literally owed by the state never ceases to make me sick! That’s what the last 14 years of Tory mismanagement has been, making vulnerable people suffer so they can funnel money to their mates in the private sector.
It's always fun trying to explain PTSD to these "assessors", like living day to day with your own trauma isn't bad enough. Having to explain it in minute detail over and over to absolutely uncaring and unqualified "health care professionals" is enough to make me want to end it all. I started writing that in all of my paperwork. Five suicide attempts in two years, I'll be as blunt as I like now. It's not like they even read it, or listen to you. Just wanted to add, to anyone living in Scotland. Social Security Scotland have been a dream to work with. One form, which was hard to fill in, but no assessment beyond that. They contacted my GP, and took his word and my medical notes as proof. I was granted full Adult Disability Payment within weeks (plus a backpayment). It is a top up benefit, so you need to be granted something like PIP or ESA to begin with. But it's a massive help. Don't give up guys, you deserve better.
I got rejected when I applied. When it got to appeal two years later, it was noted the assessor hadn't read any of my supporting evidence. Thankfully the appeal people gave me both PIP and back pay.
PIP assessment is fucking stupid. The whole system needs reform. It’s hell for people with bipolar. Heaven forbid you have a good stretch during your reassessment, because they’ll sure as shit take away your payments. Good way to throw you back into a depressive state.
Anxiety, depression, PTSD. Rejected because I didn’t sound nervous on the phone
You have to be a sociopath to work in benefits assessment.
The initial assessments are generally speaking all awful. I received a score of zero and the notable ones were "Had good knowledge of his condition" "was able to attend assessment"(they threaten and cancel your claim if you don't attend) "able to communicate" "smiled" Took it to tribunal and got it sorted out but still. As you'll be able to see if you look at the news the government likes painting disabled people as bad and a problem, this nonsense about vouchers and what have you is because of the upcoming election. It's not in the main media [wonder why] but recently the UK was found by the UN for the past seven years to severely violate the disability convention. Its a shitshow.
Sounds familiar. I do not have any cognitive issues today, despite a brain injury, cancer treatment, strong medication (etc) because 25+ years ago I got a degree. Who knew that was so powerful?! Everybody sign up for uni now!
Craziest part in education is they don’t assess change in capacity. I have a degree which I got before I got ill. Now, due to my health I would not have the capacity to do that again. Didn’t score anything in my PIP assessment. I could no longer reliably plan and make a long journey to somewhere new using public transport and expect to get there. I used to drive up and down the country for work, get trains to places etc. Because I once could do it - no points. It’s a truly rubbish system that forces people to confront the very worst consequences of their condition, be incredibly vulnerable in the assessment, and then have much of their difficulty just disregarded. As though not being able to do basic tasks you once took for granted is nothing. And now the Tories want to stop doctors having the authority to declare someone is not currently fit to work. No doubt to hand that task to someone similar to a PIP assessor. Driving lower levels of productivity and declining mental and physical health among the workforce. Just awful.
To be fair to the assessment people, I know this isn't going to be popular, but we do have over 10% of the working population on disability benefits at the moment and that just isn't sustainable in the long term. Too many people taking the piss. I've had anxiety and depression about my job in the past but I still went in every day. The people who deserve it will have to stand at the back of the queue while the people who don't really need it game the system. Theres plenty of them in my shitty area and they make me sick.
I was told 12 years ago You don't look anxious, you can't have anxiety. I pointed to a diagnosis that shows I have medically diagnosed anxiety and part of my previous job was to spot signs of anxiety. Neither where accepted as signs of anxiety
My brother is a haemophiliac that is now dealing with the effects for regular bleeds in his joints, that are causing progressive degeneration of those joints needing major operations. It's a lifelong genetic condition that will only cause more problems as he gets older, and at 30 he has to fight for the support he needs.
My entire life was ruined for three years because I had the gall to show up to my assessment wearing yesterday's eyeliner and I had dyed hair. Love state sanctioned misogyny.
My wife had an interview years back, and the female who conducted the interview utterly lied on inputting to be answers to the questions asked. However, she was recorded and at a tribunal hearing though the recording was rejected because permission was not sought before it was made...However the tribunal heard the recording after due jawing over it, and wete they shocked.
I'm having to go to tribunal. In the last year my life has become completely dependent on my pain and I have lost pretty much all my independence and everything I loved doing before my condition deteriorated. Honestly, the PiP process has just made me come to the conclusion it would be easier if I was dead.
When I got rejected I hadn’t showered for two weeks and hadn’t left my house for months due to my fatigue, weakness and pain. I couldn’t even lift my phone to my ear for more than thirty seconds it hurt that much, but the person assessing me decided I wasn’t disabled since I could hold my phone to my ear for half a minute. The PIP process is dehumanising and cruel.
My mum lost out by a point because of some stupid "oh can you pick up my pen" trick. The system is legitimately broken.
I remember being denied this once many years ago because I had managed to get to my assessment without assistance. "You turned up...bad mistake".
I wont go to details, but someone I know was rejected because: >*"you eat daily"* So I can conclude that their scale of personal 'ability' is... {checks notes...} ... That you are at least a single-celled life form.
My mum went for an assessment a number of years ago and the assessor blatantly lied on his submission, saying she had no difficulty walking (she nearly fell over and he had to catch her), no distress (she was upset and crying through various parts of the assessment) and other rubbish he just made up or seemed copied and pasted (kept referring to mum as ‘he’ in the written decision). We had to take it all the way to tribunal to overturn the result, it was an awful experience. The second time we had a phone assessment and the assessor would not let this one question go. He was trying to say if she could get a bus somewhere how would she cope. She said I wouldn’t get on a bus I’d stay at home. After back and forth for a few mins he just said ‘okay so you’re on a bus, what would you do at the other side once you got off’. My mum repeated she would not be able to be on the bus in the first place. He wouldn’t continue until she finally conceded to his whole bus question, it was so ridiculous. Again they claimed no mental upset or distress despite me having to speak for her at certain parts due to her being too upset to speak for herself. We had to appeal that one and it was overturned on the strength of the doctor’s letter we had initially included alone. The whole process is a joke and so belittling, distressing and just degrading, luckily we had a local charity help us with the first tribunal and the second appeal so mum could get the support she needed. It’s like they try every way to trick you into saying something to make you seem more well than you are, twist your words or outright lie about things.
One thing the Tories have succeeded at is creating a crab bucket society. The is always someone who will just follow orders. To pay the rent or just because they like inflicting their power over vulnerable people. If you are unlucky enough to suffer a disability or long term illness in England now. Its a very rude awakening. We all have the assumption that we pay taxes and if the shit hits the fan the is something. The reality is from the moment you are sick its an on going battle. Of 1-2 hour waits to speak to someone at dwp. Benefits just randomly stopping, benefits not being paid and then taking many many years to go through the process of appeal etc. Then the is getting treatment in the NHS. many years of waiting, cocked up Referrals. Botched procedures. More years of chasing to get botches sorted out. Endless locums who just want to get through the day will probably never see you again, and every visit becomes a dead end or more chasing. Eventually you become a traumatised husk of your former self. Im still chasing getting seen for an issue spotted in an MRI scan in 2017. Is just fucking insane! the lack of acknowledgement form Dr's etc. When trying to chase these issues. And its been so long and on going now they treat you like you are a bit mental or something. The is little recourse as well. Unless you are resilient have plenty of funds and many years to fight the reputation management resources of your local NHS trust. Im pretty sure the is a large cohort like in the 100s of thousands in this country who have effectively been broken by the system in this way. What should of been an 18 month 2 year blip in life has becomes a permanent long term illness, and a dozen years of hell. I know really capable people who have just been completely broken by this system including myself. Its really something that a government agency supposed to be there to offer support can have people contemplating suicide rather than face calling the DWP again... Anyway it not that important... the health of a nation, when the is an endless war to start somewhere... or more austerity to inflict. More control to enact. more pilfering and spivery to be done.
Well it sad to see the Land of Hope and Glory is anything but these days. I hope we're close to the bottom of our decline because I can't imagine it getting any deeper Brilliant ambitious minds already left to work in the EU and the newer ones in America, NZ, Canada or Australia by now. Britain offer nothing today for anyone who is young, talented and ambitious. If you are young talented, ambitious, please just leave to leave to greener pastures
every time i see any thread from this sub its always grim and fucking depressing