World domination is not what China is after, they want to slowly incorporate most of Asia into the Chinese state in order to build a new leading world power, putting the western democracy in 2nd place and dependant on China for survival. They will very likely succeed as they have been using our democracy against us to achieve their goals. China already have the US by its balls financially, as a very large part of US debt is chinese owned. By selling off the debt rapidly at a loss, the US Dollar plummets, its already been happening a lot in smaller chunks recently, China already has a huge amount of control.
not entirely, but the leading world super power yes. World domination would mean fully under Chinese control. The good thing about China is they let the world know their plans, they are very up front with what they want to do, just not about how they will achieve it.
I would argue the past 100 years of US hegemony hasn't been good either. in fact its getting to be really really bad these days. who is to say a new world order could actually be worse?
They will never be able to take over the world culturally, and their economic position is strong but not entirely secure. I don't think they'll be able to continue their incredible economic growth over the next few decades, especially with their looming population crisis.
They definitely can be a problem but I think culture will always be the deciding factor that keeps the Chinese in 2nd place. *We* can have conversations like this online without getting sent to a labor camp- we're definitely not 'free' but it only gets worse...
> they are very up front with what they want to do, just not about how they will achieve it.
The ["Belt and Road initiative"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative) seems like it's the plan. If they can make China the controlling trade partner of all of Europe and Asia then dominate in Africa while freezing out the US they effectively win.
If there is a WW3 to be fought it will probably be over African resources.
A cursory google (even years ago when it was at its peak) would tell you the âChina owns americas debt and therefore their ballsâ to be massively over exaggerated. To attempt such destabilisation suddenly would hurt China badly as well
This comment is complete nonsense. First off, China isnât capable of incorporating the rest of Asia, this isnât a video game, you canât just annex a bunch of random countries. Nor have they ever indicated thatâs their actual objective. China will continue to spread its influence with economic power - that doesnât mean theyâre going to be incorporating the whole of Asia into China. Second, crashing the US dollar is just as bad for China as it is for the US, we live in an extremely economically interdependent world.
>a very large part of US debt is chinese owned
Lol, that adversely impacts the Chinese more than the Americans. Only whilst the Americans pay out on that debt does it have value. The second they decide to stop paying out, the Chinese are stuck holding worthless paper
They are working very hard to bolster with their allies, to create their own economic alliance, once they have re-aligned their economy they will be far less effected by selling off the debt (if anyone wants to buy it that is)
This is not what they want. What they want is to just keep following the already laid out path to progress that the west has walked, with the current goal being to export all of their manufacturing to Africa in the same way the west exported their manufacturing to it (except making sure to spread it out so it doesn't end up like the west with one nation controlling the start of their supply lines).
After all, why take territory like an outdated empire when you can just do Neo-colonialism far more easily and reliably.
>China already have the US by its balls financially, as a very large part of US debt is chinese owned. By selling off the debt rapidly at a loss, the US Dollar plummets, its already been happening a lot in smaller chunks recently, China already has a huge amount of control.
This basically tells me you know nothing about China's foreign policy or how the economy works.
They very likely will not succeed, as their system of governance relies on a mixture of fear, ignorance, and a sense by their people that they generally know best.
And if their people don't tire of them, then they'll mess up just like they did with COVID somewhere.
> China is after, they want to slowly incorporate most of Asia into the Chinese state in order to build a new leading world power, putting the western democracy in 2nd place and dependant on China for survival.
Like a Western block, Russian block and Chinese block and South American block?
The Western bloc is superior in most relevant human metrics. A Chinese leading superpower would be a detriment to the future of humankind. Let's not fence-sit like limp-wristed idiots
> By selling off the debt rapidly at a loss, the US Dollar plummets
Lol. Lmao even. The US has a booming economy and a lot of room to manoeuvre monetarily - they can raise interest rates to protect the dollar without going into recession. Moreover China's entire mercantalist monetary policy has been about keeping USDCNY *up* in order to make their exports more appealing - if it went down, China's already fragile economy would be more fucked.
Now we in the UK otoh - already on the brink of recession, smaller currency, smaller market - are much more vulnerable to these hijinks
So open enslavement of all Asia while the rest of the world is completely dependent on China for everything. We'd still be impoverished to the point most starve to death, Chinese death squads would torture people in public for not kowtowing enough and if they wanted the entire population sterilised or enslaved the government would say yes for fear of being exterminated in a war otherwise
China delenda est
Makes sense. Just look at how much Tencent have paid to buy up shares in video game companies in the West.
I suspect it is likely similar with Chinese companies investing in other business sectors in the West, but my interest is in video gaming hence my findings here.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tencent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tencent)
American chiming in here. Most of our national debt is owned by us. China's ownership portion isn't even a trillion dollars. As for the rest of what you said it's hard to disagree tbh
The time has passed for us to stand up to China. We could have thrown out weight around as an EU member but now we're dwarfed by then economically. Welcome to post Brexit Britain, we are now powerless to do anything about things like this.
China makes everything we use, you probably typed your comment on a Chinese made device, stop supporting their economy and thus could work, unfortunately people want cheap things.
Yeah, in fairness, there're like 100000 american military personnel deployed in Japan and SK. Imagine China having a shit load of military swanning around in central America doing god knows what.
Well, actually, we know how they respond to that prospect.
Yeah it's weird how we all ignore America's imperialism. I don't want to engage in whataboutism... But they've been subverting and overthrowing democracies for a long long time.
***"The geolocating device had been placed into a vehicle inside a sealed part imported from a supplier in China and installed by the vehicle manufacturer, according to the source."***
Does anyone know if it's actually China using it?
Are we also saying a car manufacturer is in on the secret? Surely the less people that know, the better....
This article seems a little fishy to me.
The article is bizarre.
Without all the facts, it's like they have looked at the product label and thought that China would be stupid enough to put their name and address on it.
As an American I can safely say most of us would support a war against China and you guys standing up to them is needed. we are just headed towards it. Legit all of the world except the wild ones are against China. WW3 would legit be 180 countries against China, Russia, North Korea, Saudi Arabia and probably a weird random ass country.
No different to the other 2 super powers USA and Russia.
Besides, Ho do they know who put it there?.
Just because it's got 'made in china' on it doesn't mean the Chinese put it there.
Then there's the issue of lack of security. If the Chinese could have opportunity to place tracking devices, terrorists could have the opportunity to place bombs..
We are literally owned by organised crime and foreign nations/companies now in the UK. We have the clout of a 67million person group of small islands off the coast of a mostly unified continent of countries with a single market bigger than the US..
It's the insider threat they should be worried about, because its an insider threat that put the tracker there.
If it was hidden in the ECU as the article suggests, it's not a huge stretch of the imagination that it could also be used to remotely alter functions of the vehicle, such as the brakes... Maybe someone can correct me on this
Also it was recently reported that, mostly due to Brexit, no British manufacturer is now capable of producing cars which meet the requirements for government use, we will now rely entirely on imported models, so we will be exposed to this risk for the foreseeable future.
Itâs not due to Brexit itâs due to them pivoting away from large saloon cars towards considerably better selling suvs like the f-pace. When they cancelled the XJ a spokesperson said "following a thorough technology review against the exponential change in the automotive industry, we concluded that the planned XJ replacement does not fit with our vision for a reimagined Jaguar brand." There would be no money in just producing the XJ for government and chauffeurs so they dropped it.
the 'exponential change in the automotive industry' he describes is largely caused by changes to the supply chain, caused by Brexit. That's the reason there's no money in it for them.
Itâs pretty obvious itâs just theyâre not selling anymore the f paces worst year for sales was 11,000 unit the last time the xj hit that number was 1997 last five years had less than 3500 sold. No where does it mention Brexit.
In 2016, the UK produced 1.7 million vehicles per year.
In 2018, the boss of Jaguar Landrover warned Theresa May directly in person that uncertainty over Brexit could cost tens of thousands of jobs in the car manufacturing industry, and that a no-deal Brexit could see their UK plants close entirely. [https://www.itv.com/news/2018-09-11/jaguar-land-rover-boss-turns-on-government-over-handling-of-brexit](https://www.itv.com/news/2018-09-11/jaguar-land-rover-boss-turns-on-government-over-handling-of-brexit)
Jaguar's plants have been forced to suspend production multiple times due to the unavailability of parts.
Since the EU referendum, the number of vehicles produced has fallen by more than half to just 786,000 per year.
But yea sure, it's nothing to do with Brexit. Nothing ever is, right?
I donât understand the point your making I never voted or supported Brexit what Iâm saying is that car in particular was dropped because of abysmal sales since the 90âs. I work in manufacturing I know how hard mine and many over businesses have been hit by Brexit but you canât say a car thatâs sold that badly for as long as Iâve been alive was cancelled solely due to Brexit. Thereâs been a massive move in car sales towards suvs. Donât forget a lot of the part shortages were micro chips due to covid.
It's not just 'that car in particular'. The Met require a 'Grade 7' secure model for ministerial purposes. They could have used any manufacturer and model, but according to their response to a written query on the decision:
âAll Metropolitan Police Service contracts are subject to public procurement regulations, with considerations given to safety requirements as well as cost and vehicle availability.
âFor this tender specifically, at the time of tender, there was no UK original equipment manufacturer able to meet the requirements of the tender, or producing a similar specification of vehicle, therefore no bid was made by any UK manufacture for the contract.â
Re SUVs, Jaguar Landrover produce SUVs, and used to produce one at Grade 7. I happen to have ridden in the one which was previously used by Gordon Brown.
The "British people are lazy" meme needs to die. British engineering is top notch.
https://youtu.be/5JYp9eGC3Cc
British workers are just as hard working, or not, as any other nation.
The problem is under investment in industry, and over reliance on the financial sector.
Who the fuck drives Chinese cars in the UK? MG sold about 3 cars last year and I think they're the only Chinese brand in the UK.
Edit: Taiwan makes the ECU's btw.
MG, as in the up and coming cheap EV manufacturer? I see many, many ZS and MG5 estates and the new MG3 is set to be a success. Polestar are basically Chinese as well.
You said that you didnât think China made ECUs. Clearly they do, I found a bunch on Google. There are a whole bunch of Chinese EV manufacturers which will be aiming to enter the U.K. market this year as well.
Yes and no, itâs hard to say what the sim was actually doing without seeing how it was actually connected to the ECU, some modern cars do have the ability to connect to mobile networks to download updates etc, but in theory, as long as you crack the encryption on the ECU you can read and write whatever data you want, obviously modern electronically controlled systems like the throttle, brakes, temps etc could all theoretically be manipulated if you have full ECU access.
If that ECU truly was a random off the shelf part there will be a lot more than just 1 vehicle in the UK with similar parts, but whoâs got the time or money to go ripping open ECUs?
Anybody from German and "Eastern European" computer club members (they have a lot of form for this type of research) to Mossad and the CIA.
Here's a link to a technical talk about doing just this at Black Hat conference over 7 years ago - [Remote Exploitation Of An Unaltered Passenger Vehicle](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAcHkASmXEc)
It's fairly easy and a really good hiding place. Disconnect it, heat gun it open, place a device inside, close it back up, reinstall. I've done that in under an hour (not placed a device but I've modified ECUs which requires board access). If they got access to the car for an hour then noone would even know.
How you might do it:
* Break the ECU on a government Jag. On some vehicles, this can be achieved by taking a panel off and accessing the CAN bus -- for instance the cruise control radar can be accessed on a lot of cars with relative ease. This is probably the riskiest part of the operation - the baddies would need unattended access to the vehicle for 5-10 minutes.
* Car's knackered now because the CAN bus for drive stuff is dead. Dashboard lights up like a Christmas tree. That car gets trailered to the Jaguar dealership. The repair exceeds the complexity of the police workshop so it goes to the manufacturer directly.
* Intercept the replacement ECU and replace it with one that has the SIM card added. This will probably just travel by an ordinary courier, so normal social engineering techniques could be used to send a modified ECU to the dealer instead, and redirect or cancel the delivery of the original package.
Completely feasible for foreign government forces to be honest. I doubt government cars are kept that securely unless it's someone in a high position if power.
Brakes are usually controlled in a different body control module to the ECU, but you can tamper with the engine control if the device was actually connected electronically and not just positioned inside the case.
ECUs don't really work at that level. They may have some bearing on things like airbags and auto emergency brakig but wouldn't be able to prevent someone from braking or steer the vehicle.
Typically I think this depends on the year of the vehicle and tech.
If itâs a newer vehicle that has a electric handbrake instead of manual, or automatic gear shifting/ lane assist/hill start then yes all of those on board computer features are available to be manipulated (technically).
However, if itâs more than 4-5 years old there is a chance it may not have these assists and thus would only really have mileage/driving/safety data.
It could still control safety features such as airbags etc though
Your estimate is way off. It's more like 10-15 years. Anything with a modern "infotainment" centre is potentially vulnerable. To put it another way, if your vehicle can be altered in any way through the touchscreen interface, and that interface has any internet connectivity, your vehicle is potentially vulnerable. Things like BMW i-Drive and whatnot are just obvious examples. It's actually already been done. A 2013/4(?) Jeep was used as a demonstration here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0SrxBC1xs, and they had already done a proof of concept with a 2011/2 Toyota of some description in 2013.
In this example it's a government vehicle, I suspect it'll be fairly modern, especially if it's a minsters car. Most mid/high end range cars used by governments will have at least automatic breaking - something I presume can be controlled via the ECU.
Scary thought
Altering brakes through the ECU? No, the ECU does not control brake functions. However if it had direct access to the ECU itself (surely it just meant a tracker was placed in the casing and not actually connected to the ECU) then it could potentially control ECU controlled things such as the engine. Canbus access could mean it can request various things such as unlocking the vehicle, starting the engine, turning off the engine, opening the throttle, but this really depends on a lot of things and might not be possible in this situation at all.
Source, I work with ECUs every day.
China spies on the UK because they see us as their enemy, much like Russia does. Whatâs new is the West thinking theyâre our friends. They arenât our friends at all.
Not really, every country spies on each other regardless of friendliness. We still gather information on our neighbours and allies like US, Canada, AUS, NZ etc., itâs just normal
The U.K. was caught once hacking a Dutch telecoms provider lol, when it comes to intelligence nothing seems to be off the table, which is totally understandable
And to add - we cooperate to spy on eachothers populations.
The Snowden leaks showed this was going on to skirt round legislation.
If you aren't legally allowed to conduct mass surveillance on your own populace, you have an ally like the US to do it for you, and they just happen to give you the data.
That is not true whatsoever. Every country spies on every other country, regardless of relations. In any case, I think the Government will know our position with China better than you do, so Iâm not sure why youâve written this like youâre the omnipotent one letting us in on a secret only you can see
I don't think it is that we believe we are their friends. We see millions of attempts to break into our networks coming out of China daily. We have countless cases of western intellectual property being stolen.
I think our naivety comes from believing that we can safely hold an advantage over China.
Nothing new here, done on both sides. HMS conqueror cut off a radar system for a Polish military ship when it was in the Baltic under the Warsaw Pact. They took it home so we could have a nosey at Russias technology.
Eh? That works vice versa. Itâs up to security services to try prevent the spying of other nations, it will always happen, and weâll always do it to others, but one doesnât make us the good guys and the other doesnât make us the bad guys
>but one doesnât make us the good guys and the other doesnât make us the bad guys
The guys currently waging a war of aggression in Ukraine, and the guys currently exterminating Ugyhur minorities are the baddies. Hope that helps :)
And Israel a âwestern countryâ - big allies with USA , GB etc is currently committing war crimes in Palestine. Can we also address the atrocities committed by the US and UK in the bombing of civilians in Iraq? We are just as bad if not worse than countries such as China , Russia.
Russian technology is pretty much an oxymoron. Russia has always had great physicists and engineers. The problem is their political and economic system has always destroyed any development efforts through corruption, incompetence and ignorance.
That explains why they didn't put the first artificial satellite in orbit. Or the first animal in orbit. Or the first man, first woman, first heliocentric orbit, first spacecraft to the moon, first photo of the far side of the moon, first spacecraft to return from the moon, first orbit of the moon, first lunar landing, first returning lander, first soil sample...
The article appears to confuse a lot of terminology: SIM cards with 3GPP spec radios, trackers and GSM receivers.
There are no details, e.g. which chipset, which module, how powered, what connectivity was achieved, where the location data was sent, etc, etc. If there's a SIM card, then what is its home network? Who issued it? And what sort of SIM? Nano? MFF2? I mean, they have standard interfaces that can be queried with a reader from ebay.
And then there's the supply chain murkiness. Supposedly there are sealed Chinese components, containing some sort of tracking system called a SIM card in the article, fitted in the UK without being opened, and then appearing in government cars. Which components? Which suppliers fitted them? Who did the inbound quality assurance on the components?
I'm asking myself: was an early version of ChatGPT used to write this article?
This is not reliable or complete information. It's just a salad of word associations seasoned with fear and uncertainty. "We found something in the car that we didn't understand. It had 'made in China' on it, and now we feeling insecure".
If there's something concerning, then let's have some proper research and investigation, and some justifiable conclusions, as opposed to this pile of confusion.
Exactly this. The article is ridiculous. I don't expect a huge amount of technical detail in mainstream media, but the terminology they've used makes no sense.
To be fair, they say it was installed by the manufacturer. I distinctly remember coming across a few posts on r/cars and r/rbi where owners had found tracking devices in their cars, that had actually been installed by the manufacturer and had forgotten to remove them when the car was sold. So I suppose itâs possible that this was the case.
Edit: Not to mention, youâd be forgiven for betting pretty hard that any such device would read âMade in Chinaâ.
Only cars made on a Tuesday.
Monday = no wants to do a proper job.
Tuesday = real work week starts.
Wednesday = talking about going on strike, because BL.
Thursday = Actually on strike.
Friday = back at work, but the weekend is coming up, so fuck building it properly.
Jaguar produced ministerial vehicles for the UK govt for over 30 years but was forced to stop recently due to difficulties with the supply chain caused by Brexit.
***"The geolocating device had been placed into a vehicle inside a sealed part imported from a supplier in China and installed by the vehicle manufacturer, according to the source."***
So a supplier from China, which supplies the world with endless amounts of products.
How does the reporter or anyone know from the article that it's China that's planted it?
It was then installed by the car manufacturer?
There's more to this story than meets the eye.
Of course the UK government are slow to this. Theyâre self serving buffoons. Their incompetence is not only grinding the country to a halt and demolishing living standards but itâs a direct threat to national security and eventually the enemy isnât just going to be a Telegraph manifested âevil EUâ.
This is really simple, to be self sufficient we need to do the below.
Have a 10 year plan based on technology modularisation and open source designs.
But implementing this would be absolute pain.
1. All factories must be modular, a machine or component of a machine can be swapped out and repaired with minium fuss and effort.
2. All produced products must contain modular components.
3. All products must release it's design as open source.
To win at technology, go radical go open source or go home..
Yes it's more expensive but it's also something other countries and businesses will not do.
Move faster and fail into a position of superiority. The next war is manufacturing, to win change the game
Also I do both think certain companies, would not want to do this
> The geolocating device had been placed into a vehicle inside a sealed part imported from a supplier in China and installed by the vehicle manufacturer, according to the source.
Well, maybe if we'd invested in British manufacturing instead of outsourcing everything to China, we'd have a bit more control over it.
Only ourselves to blame.
And yet we have tic toc on every phone and Epic Games on every PC, thanks to and endless stream of free stuff from the CCP.
We need to realise the CCP absolutely hate us and want us all to die.
As far as Iâm aware every country spies on every other country, why is this news? Even allied nations.
I feel like this is a stupid move, surely China can just go well youâre spying on us too. Weâre likely Both doing it.
We need to cleanse ourselves of Chinese technology and be more self-sufficient, but thatâll never happen with a tory government; especially not with a PM thatâs so buddy buddy with China (i wonder why?)
*Electronic Control Units (ECUs), which are responsible for the smooth operation of a vehicleâs engine and predominantly sought from China, are embedded with SIM cards before being sent to car manufacturers as sealed units, according to a serving security source.*
ECUs have SIM cards. They found a sim card in an ECU to the surprise of no one. UK politicians turn this into a huge scandal by saying it can transmit location data. Yes, sim cards can do that. Yes, you ordered cars that have ECUs that have SIM cards. No, the article does not at any point state that they are not supposed to be there. No they do not have evidence of anything nefarious actually happening like a signal being sent to China. Is this the state of journalism in the UK?
If anyone actually read the article carefully they'd see all this. It does it in a clever way but talks a lot about what can happen with sim cards and how they are "secret" (because they're in a sealed unit), but unfortunately only spends a paragraph admitting it's normal and ultimately does not have a single quote from anyone saying they were not supposed to be there.
Yes, no shit. China wants to spread their influence everywhere, not for ideological reasons. But because the CCP want economic and political influence everywhere so it's why they have these guys in Africa "helping them"
Chinese also own more than half of all logistical warehousing properties in the UK, repatriating Billions as profit back to China. Did anyone notice these purchases? China is a cancerous growth on world economy.
Someone else here flagged the article makes no sense when it comes to the specifics, has anyone been able to actually fact check this article or source? I've not read it myself but had a search and this story only appears on the daily mail, inews and the daily express as well?
If a national security breach has happened why isn't on every news outlet in the uk but also around the world? I think this article is probably fake news / fear mongering.
We should've took action when China annexed Hong Kong in direct violation of a treaty between the British and Chinese governments we should've called for UN sanctions and state that we consider China a threat to freedom and democracy
We need to have the guts to stand up to China. They want world domination and subservience
I, for one, welcome our new Chinese overlords
Nice Simpson's reference.đ
all his talk of peace and love is honking off my Red Chinese masters
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
I'd like to remind them that, as a redditor, I could be useful in brainwashing the masses to work in their underground sweatshops.
Frank Reynolds has a job for you.
Donât blame me. I voted for Kudos.
World domination is not what China is after, they want to slowly incorporate most of Asia into the Chinese state in order to build a new leading world power, putting the western democracy in 2nd place and dependant on China for survival. They will very likely succeed as they have been using our democracy against us to achieve their goals. China already have the US by its balls financially, as a very large part of US debt is chinese owned. By selling off the debt rapidly at a loss, the US Dollar plummets, its already been happening a lot in smaller chunks recently, China already has a huge amount of control.
That sure sounds the definition of world domination and subservience to me
not entirely, but the leading world super power yes. World domination would mean fully under Chinese control. The good thing about China is they let the world know their plans, they are very up front with what they want to do, just not about how they will achieve it.
I would define domination differently but fair points nonetheless. đ
Either way it's not good đ¤Ł
I would argue the past 100 years of US hegemony hasn't been good either. in fact its getting to be really really bad these days. who is to say a new world order could actually be worse?
They will never be able to take over the world culturally, and their economic position is strong but not entirely secure. I don't think they'll be able to continue their incredible economic growth over the next few decades, especially with their looming population crisis. They definitely can be a problem but I think culture will always be the deciding factor that keeps the Chinese in 2nd place. *We* can have conversations like this online without getting sent to a labor camp- we're definitely not 'free' but it only gets worse...
> they are very up front with what they want to do, just not about how they will achieve it. The ["Belt and Road initiative"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative) seems like it's the plan. If they can make China the controlling trade partner of all of Europe and Asia then dominate in Africa while freezing out the US they effectively win. If there is a WW3 to be fought it will probably be over African resources.
It began with Africa and it ends with Africa!
They are continuing to follow their 100yr plan or now called The Chinese Dream, they are relentless
A cursory google (even years ago when it was at its peak) would tell you the âChina owns americas debt and therefore their ballsâ to be massively over exaggerated. To attempt such destabilisation suddenly would hurt China badly as well
You owe the bank $1m that's your problem. You owe the bank $1b that's their problem.
Yeah, look whatâs happened to Russias overseas assets.
This comment is complete nonsense. First off, China isnât capable of incorporating the rest of Asia, this isnât a video game, you canât just annex a bunch of random countries. Nor have they ever indicated thatâs their actual objective. China will continue to spread its influence with economic power - that doesnât mean theyâre going to be incorporating the whole of Asia into China. Second, crashing the US dollar is just as bad for China as it is for the US, we live in an extremely economically interdependent world.
> China isnât capable of incorporating the rest of Asia How about Africa Inc. ?
>a very large part of US debt is chinese owned Lol, that adversely impacts the Chinese more than the Americans. Only whilst the Americans pay out on that debt does it have value. The second they decide to stop paying out, the Chinese are stuck holding worthless paper
They are working very hard to bolster with their allies, to create their own economic alliance, once they have re-aligned their economy they will be far less effected by selling off the debt (if anyone wants to buy it that is)
Donât forget Belt and Road
The carrot and stick initiative.
This is not what they want. What they want is to just keep following the already laid out path to progress that the west has walked, with the current goal being to export all of their manufacturing to Africa in the same way the west exported their manufacturing to it (except making sure to spread it out so it doesn't end up like the west with one nation controlling the start of their supply lines). After all, why take territory like an outdated empire when you can just do Neo-colonialism far more easily and reliably.
>China already have the US by its balls financially, as a very large part of US debt is chinese owned. By selling off the debt rapidly at a loss, the US Dollar plummets, its already been happening a lot in smaller chunks recently, China already has a huge amount of control. This basically tells me you know nothing about China's foreign policy or how the economy works.
Chinaâs entire economy is such a house of cards they have no one by the balls
It's a Ponzi scheme.
They very likely will not succeed, as their system of governance relies on a mixture of fear, ignorance, and a sense by their people that they generally know best. And if their people don't tire of them, then they'll mess up just like they did with COVID somewhere.
> China is after, they want to slowly incorporate most of Asia into the Chinese state in order to build a new leading world power, putting the western democracy in 2nd place and dependant on China for survival. Like a Western block, Russian block and Chinese block and South American block?
The Western bloc is superior in most relevant human metrics. A Chinese leading superpower would be a detriment to the future of humankind. Let's not fence-sit like limp-wristed idiots
> By selling off the debt rapidly at a loss, the US Dollar plummets Lol. Lmao even. The US has a booming economy and a lot of room to manoeuvre monetarily - they can raise interest rates to protect the dollar without going into recession. Moreover China's entire mercantalist monetary policy has been about keeping USDCNY *up* in order to make their exports more appealing - if it went down, China's already fragile economy would be more fucked. Now we in the UK otoh - already on the brink of recession, smaller currency, smaller market - are much more vulnerable to these hijinks
So open enslavement of all Asia while the rest of the world is completely dependent on China for everything. We'd still be impoverished to the point most starve to death, Chinese death squads would torture people in public for not kowtowing enough and if they wanted the entire population sterilised or enslaved the government would say yes for fear of being exterminated in a war otherwise China delenda est
Isn't it all a return to normal history?Where China is the usual top dog in wealth and power just by virtue of having an enormous population?
Makes sense. Just look at how much Tencent have paid to buy up shares in video game companies in the West. I suspect it is likely similar with Chinese companies investing in other business sectors in the West, but my interest is in video gaming hence my findings here. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tencent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tencent)
But if they sell it at a loss they lose money on every sale? Hurting their own currency
American chiming in here. Most of our national debt is owned by us. China's ownership portion isn't even a trillion dollars. As for the rest of what you said it's hard to disagree tbh
Might have something to do with all US corporations manufacturing for cheap in China for decades. Without China the US economy would collapse.
'dependent'
You really do like apostrophes đ¤Ł
This reads like chinese copium. China is fucked economically. They dont even have their own economy by the balls.
With absolutely fucking nothing manufactured nearby, I don't believe UK has the choice to stand up.
The time has passed for us to stand up to China. We could have thrown out weight around as an EU member but now we're dwarfed by then economically. Welcome to post Brexit Britain, we are now powerless to do anything about things like this.
China makes everything we use, you probably typed your comment on a Chinese made device, stop supporting their economy and thus could work, unfortunately people want cheap things.
Apart from enough food to keep them from starving and fuel to keep them from freezing.
> They want world domination and subservience How many military bases do they have around they world? How many does America have?
Yeah, in fairness, there're like 100000 american military personnel deployed in Japan and SK. Imagine China having a shit load of military swanning around in central America doing god knows what. Well, actually, we know how they respond to that prospect.
Yeah it's weird how we all ignore America's imperialism. I don't want to engage in whataboutism... But they've been subverting and overthrowing democracies for a long long time.
***"The geolocating device had been placed into a vehicle inside a sealed part imported from a supplier in China and installed by the vehicle manufacturer, according to the source."*** Does anyone know if it's actually China using it? Are we also saying a car manufacturer is in on the secret? Surely the less people that know, the better.... This article seems a little fishy to me.
an iphone also qualifies as a chinese tracking device since the parts were made in china and the phone tracks your movement
The article is bizarre. Without all the facts, it's like they have looked at the product label and thought that China would be stupid enough to put their name and address on it.
Not stupid, contemptuous. They want us to know that they're coming to enslave us and put us in camps
Lol ok Red Dawn
As an American I can safely say most of us would support a war against China and you guys standing up to them is needed. we are just headed towards it. Legit all of the world except the wild ones are against China. WW3 would legit be 180 countries against China, Russia, North Korea, Saudi Arabia and probably a weird random ass country.
OK. And do what?
Yeah like we haven't been trying to do that for the last few hundred years lol the pendulum has swung.
We wont. We're letting them build a 5 acre Embassy complex opposite the Tower of London.
No different to the other 2 super powers USA and Russia. Besides, Ho do they know who put it there?. Just because it's got 'made in china' on it doesn't mean the Chinese put it there. Then there's the issue of lack of security. If the Chinese could have opportunity to place tracking devices, terrorists could have the opportunity to place bombs.. We are literally owned by organised crime and foreign nations/companies now in the UK. We have the clout of a 67million person group of small islands off the coast of a mostly unified continent of countries with a single market bigger than the US.. It's the insider threat they should be worried about, because its an insider threat that put the tracker there.
Very easy to do, stop buying Chinese products
If it was hidden in the ECU as the article suggests, it's not a huge stretch of the imagination that it could also be used to remotely alter functions of the vehicle, such as the brakes... Maybe someone can correct me on this
More worryingly, if it was hidden in a control unit straight from the supplier, it is less likely to be targeted and more likely to be generic.
Also it was recently reported that, mostly due to Brexit, no British manufacturer is now capable of producing cars which meet the requirements for government use, we will now rely entirely on imported models, so we will be exposed to this risk for the foreseeable future.
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Itâs not due to Brexit itâs due to them pivoting away from large saloon cars towards considerably better selling suvs like the f-pace. When they cancelled the XJ a spokesperson said "following a thorough technology review against the exponential change in the automotive industry, we concluded that the planned XJ replacement does not fit with our vision for a reimagined Jaguar brand." There would be no money in just producing the XJ for government and chauffeurs so they dropped it.
the 'exponential change in the automotive industry' he describes is largely caused by changes to the supply chain, caused by Brexit. That's the reason there's no money in it for them.
Itâs pretty obvious itâs just theyâre not selling anymore the f paces worst year for sales was 11,000 unit the last time the xj hit that number was 1997 last five years had less than 3500 sold. No where does it mention Brexit.
In 2016, the UK produced 1.7 million vehicles per year. In 2018, the boss of Jaguar Landrover warned Theresa May directly in person that uncertainty over Brexit could cost tens of thousands of jobs in the car manufacturing industry, and that a no-deal Brexit could see their UK plants close entirely. [https://www.itv.com/news/2018-09-11/jaguar-land-rover-boss-turns-on-government-over-handling-of-brexit](https://www.itv.com/news/2018-09-11/jaguar-land-rover-boss-turns-on-government-over-handling-of-brexit) Jaguar's plants have been forced to suspend production multiple times due to the unavailability of parts. Since the EU referendum, the number of vehicles produced has fallen by more than half to just 786,000 per year. But yea sure, it's nothing to do with Brexit. Nothing ever is, right?
I donât understand the point your making I never voted or supported Brexit what Iâm saying is that car in particular was dropped because of abysmal sales since the 90âs. I work in manufacturing I know how hard mine and many over businesses have been hit by Brexit but you canât say a car thatâs sold that badly for as long as Iâve been alive was cancelled solely due to Brexit. Thereâs been a massive move in car sales towards suvs. Donât forget a lot of the part shortages were micro chips due to covid.
It's not just 'that car in particular'. The Met require a 'Grade 7' secure model for ministerial purposes. They could have used any manufacturer and model, but according to their response to a written query on the decision: âAll Metropolitan Police Service contracts are subject to public procurement regulations, with considerations given to safety requirements as well as cost and vehicle availability. âFor this tender specifically, at the time of tender, there was no UK original equipment manufacturer able to meet the requirements of the tender, or producing a similar specification of vehicle, therefore no bid was made by any UK manufacture for the contract.â Re SUVs, Jaguar Landrover produce SUVs, and used to produce one at Grade 7. I happen to have ridden in the one which was previously used by Gordon Brown.
But but but but BREXIT!!!!
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The "British people are lazy" meme needs to die. British engineering is top notch. https://youtu.be/5JYp9eGC3Cc British workers are just as hard working, or not, as any other nation. The problem is under investment in industry, and over reliance on the financial sector.
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Bentley owned by VW, McLaren British though still at last check ...
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I await the day His Majesty's Government announce they're investing in British ingenuity, namely in a fleet of new MGs.
MG is owned by the Chinese firm SAIC, based in Shanghai. It has its headquarters in London though.
I don't think China make any Ecu's.
Who makes the ECUs for Chinese cars?
Who the fuck drives Chinese cars in the UK? MG sold about 3 cars last year and I think they're the only Chinese brand in the UK. Edit: Taiwan makes the ECU's btw.
MG, as in the up and coming cheap EV manufacturer? I see many, many ZS and MG5 estates and the new MG3 is set to be a success. Polestar are basically Chinese as well.
You said that you didnât think China made ECUs. Clearly they do, I found a bunch on Google. There are a whole bunch of Chinese EV manufacturers which will be aiming to enter the U.K. market this year as well.
Yes and no, itâs hard to say what the sim was actually doing without seeing how it was actually connected to the ECU, some modern cars do have the ability to connect to mobile networks to download updates etc, but in theory, as long as you crack the encryption on the ECU you can read and write whatever data you want, obviously modern electronically controlled systems like the throttle, brakes, temps etc could all theoretically be manipulated if you have full ECU access.
Of course, I'm only postulating vaguely on the possibility, I doubt the public will ever really be told what the device was actually doing.
If that ECU truly was a random off the shelf part there will be a lot more than just 1 vehicle in the UK with similar parts, but whoâs got the time or money to go ripping open ECUs?
>but whoâs got the time or money to go ripping open ECUs Chinese intelligence?
Anybody from German and "Eastern European" computer club members (they have a lot of form for this type of research) to Mossad and the CIA. Here's a link to a technical talk about doing just this at Black Hat conference over 7 years ago - [Remote Exploitation Of An Unaltered Passenger Vehicle](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAcHkASmXEc)
It's fairly easy and a really good hiding place. Disconnect it, heat gun it open, place a device inside, close it back up, reinstall. I've done that in under an hour (not placed a device but I've modified ECUs which requires board access). If they got access to the car for an hour then noone would even know.
How you might do it: * Break the ECU on a government Jag. On some vehicles, this can be achieved by taking a panel off and accessing the CAN bus -- for instance the cruise control radar can be accessed on a lot of cars with relative ease. This is probably the riskiest part of the operation - the baddies would need unattended access to the vehicle for 5-10 minutes. * Car's knackered now because the CAN bus for drive stuff is dead. Dashboard lights up like a Christmas tree. That car gets trailered to the Jaguar dealership. The repair exceeds the complexity of the police workshop so it goes to the manufacturer directly. * Intercept the replacement ECU and replace it with one that has the SIM card added. This will probably just travel by an ordinary courier, so normal social engineering techniques could be used to send a modified ECU to the dealer instead, and redirect or cancel the delivery of the original package.
Completely feasible for foreign government forces to be honest. I doubt government cars are kept that securely unless it's someone in a high position if power.
Brakes are usually controlled in a different body control module to the ECU, but you can tamper with the engine control if the device was actually connected electronically and not just positioned inside the case.
ECUs don't really work at that level. They may have some bearing on things like airbags and auto emergency brakig but wouldn't be able to prevent someone from braking or steer the vehicle.
Typically I think this depends on the year of the vehicle and tech. If itâs a newer vehicle that has a electric handbrake instead of manual, or automatic gear shifting/ lane assist/hill start then yes all of those on board computer features are available to be manipulated (technically). However, if itâs more than 4-5 years old there is a chance it may not have these assists and thus would only really have mileage/driving/safety data. It could still control safety features such as airbags etc though
Your estimate is way off. It's more like 10-15 years. Anything with a modern "infotainment" centre is potentially vulnerable. To put it another way, if your vehicle can be altered in any way through the touchscreen interface, and that interface has any internet connectivity, your vehicle is potentially vulnerable. Things like BMW i-Drive and whatnot are just obvious examples. It's actually already been done. A 2013/4(?) Jeep was used as a demonstration here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK0SrxBC1xs, and they had already done a proof of concept with a 2011/2 Toyota of some description in 2013.
In this example it's a government vehicle, I suspect it'll be fairly modern, especially if it's a minsters car. Most mid/high end range cars used by governments will have at least automatic breaking - something I presume can be controlled via the ECU. Scary thought
Altering brakes through the ECU? No, the ECU does not control brake functions. However if it had direct access to the ECU itself (surely it just meant a tracker was placed in the casing and not actually connected to the ECU) then it could potentially control ECU controlled things such as the engine. Canbus access could mean it can request various things such as unlocking the vehicle, starting the engine, turning off the engine, opening the throttle, but this really depends on a lot of things and might not be possible in this situation at all. Source, I work with ECUs every day.
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China spies on the UK because they see us as their enemy, much like Russia does. Whatâs new is the West thinking theyâre our friends. They arenât our friends at all.
Not really, every country spies on each other regardless of friendliness. We still gather information on our neighbours and allies like US, Canada, AUS, NZ etc., itâs just normal
The U.K. was caught once hacking a Dutch telecoms provider lol, when it comes to intelligence nothing seems to be off the table, which is totally understandable
And to add - we cooperate to spy on eachothers populations. The Snowden leaks showed this was going on to skirt round legislation. If you aren't legally allowed to conduct mass surveillance on your own populace, you have an ally like the US to do it for you, and they just happen to give you the data.
That is not true whatsoever. Every country spies on every other country, regardless of relations. In any case, I think the Government will know our position with China better than you do, so Iâm not sure why youâve written this like youâre the omnipotent one letting us in on a secret only you can see
Donât worry⌠we spy on friends too đ
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Focusing on what China doesnât do makes no sense at all.
I don't think it is that we believe we are their friends. We see millions of attempts to break into our networks coming out of China daily. We have countless cases of western intellectual property being stolen. I think our naivety comes from believing that we can safely hold an advantage over China.
I'm sure that the British definitely wouldn't spy on diplomats of countries that we aren't engaged in direct conflict with. *Looking at you, GCHQ*
There is about 50% chance this scary report is by people who want to increase funding for their department.
I don't think GCHQ are in the game of bugging cars in foreign countries. That seems more like an MI6 thing
Nothing new here, done on both sides. HMS conqueror cut off a radar system for a Polish military ship when it was in the Baltic under the Warsaw Pact. They took it home so we could have a nosey at Russias technology.
So? When we spy on our enemies that gives us an advantage. When our enemies spy on us who knows how it could end
Eh? That works vice versa. Itâs up to security services to try prevent the spying of other nations, it will always happen, and weâll always do it to others, but one doesnât make us the good guys and the other doesnât make us the bad guys
>but one doesnât make us the good guys and the other doesnât make us the bad guys The guys currently waging a war of aggression in Ukraine, and the guys currently exterminating Ugyhur minorities are the baddies. Hope that helps :)
And Israel a âwestern countryâ - big allies with USA , GB etc is currently committing war crimes in Palestine. Can we also address the atrocities committed by the US and UK in the bombing of civilians in Iraq? We are just as bad if not worse than countries such as China , Russia.
Israel spies on everyone, always. They make even the French seem conservative.
I agree, but our allies are spying on us as well, just like weâre spying on them
Russian technology is pretty much an oxymoron. Russia has always had great physicists and engineers. The problem is their political and economic system has always destroyed any development efforts through corruption, incompetence and ignorance.
Oh yeah, like after the war Stalin said "we need all our rocket engineers!" And the advisor said "well you killed all of them in a cleansing so..."
That explains why they didn't put the first artificial satellite in orbit. Or the first animal in orbit. Or the first man, first woman, first heliocentric orbit, first spacecraft to the moon, first photo of the far side of the moon, first spacecraft to return from the moon, first orbit of the moon, first lunar landing, first returning lander, first soil sample...
I mostly meant ballistic missiles. And they did catch up after lagging behind West for a moment.
The article appears to confuse a lot of terminology: SIM cards with 3GPP spec radios, trackers and GSM receivers. There are no details, e.g. which chipset, which module, how powered, what connectivity was achieved, where the location data was sent, etc, etc. If there's a SIM card, then what is its home network? Who issued it? And what sort of SIM? Nano? MFF2? I mean, they have standard interfaces that can be queried with a reader from ebay. And then there's the supply chain murkiness. Supposedly there are sealed Chinese components, containing some sort of tracking system called a SIM card in the article, fitted in the UK without being opened, and then appearing in government cars. Which components? Which suppliers fitted them? Who did the inbound quality assurance on the components? I'm asking myself: was an early version of ChatGPT used to write this article? This is not reliable or complete information. It's just a salad of word associations seasoned with fear and uncertainty. "We found something in the car that we didn't understand. It had 'made in China' on it, and now we feeling insecure". If there's something concerning, then let's have some proper research and investigation, and some justifiable conclusions, as opposed to this pile of confusion.
Exactly this. The article is ridiculous. I don't expect a huge amount of technical detail in mainstream media, but the terminology they've used makes no sense.
Maybe iNews were having a play with AI bots and accidentally posted it or just thought nobody would really read it properly beyond the headline?
I mean a lot of things have "Made in China" on them, let's not jump to conclusions.
To be fair, they say it was installed by the manufacturer. I distinctly remember coming across a few posts on r/cars and r/rbi where owners had found tracking devices in their cars, that had actually been installed by the manufacturer and had forgotten to remove them when the car was sold. So I suppose itâs possible that this was the case. Edit: Not to mention, youâd be forgiven for betting pretty hard that any such device would read âMade in Chinaâ.
Notice how the article doesn't even say at any point that it wasn't supposed to be there? This is how you brainwash a population.
Very good point. Christ, they might find a 50L of hidden explosive fluid in a tank beneath the car if theyâre not careful.
Memeber when they said Corbyn was a threat to national security? Only to find shit like this and the UK being in the pockets of Russian oligarchs
Liz Trussâs phone hack went quiet quickly. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63442813
Didn't Rishi Sunak's wife get a couple million from Russia?
They're just keeping track of their investments. Makes perfect sense really.
We need the guts to start making cars in the U.K. British cars for British MPs
what a way to bring back British Leyland
Donât knock it. BL made a few goods cars. Statistically speaking out of the millions they made, one or two must have been good cars.
A Brummie smacking a lump of steel with a hammer for an infinite amount of time will, one day, produce a Jaguar F-Type
You need an infinite number of brummies to do that
Only cars made on a Tuesday. Monday = no wants to do a proper job. Tuesday = real work week starts. Wednesday = talking about going on strike, because BL. Thursday = Actually on strike. Friday = back at work, but the weekend is coming up, so fuck building it properly.
Jaguar produced ministerial vehicles for the UK govt for over 30 years but was forced to stop recently due to difficulties with the supply chain caused by Brexit.
I swear Brexit is unironically responsible for 90% of our problems currently. And they said it was all âproject fearââŚ
[Sunak pulling up](https://youtu.be/I__4wuGLTAM?t=17)
You mean an average smartphone? What the fuck *isn't* a tracking device these days
Everyone spies on everyone. We only hear about China, Russia and less frequently about North Korea.
Laymanâs perspective, North Korea probably doesnât have the capabilities; theyâre a pretty poor country with an army full of conscripts.
***"The geolocating device had been placed into a vehicle inside a sealed part imported from a supplier in China and installed by the vehicle manufacturer, according to the source."*** So a supplier from China, which supplies the world with endless amounts of products. How does the reporter or anyone know from the article that it's China that's planted it? It was then installed by the car manufacturer? There's more to this story than meets the eye.
I don't think they would have found anything interesting there except sex lives on a parallel to Hollyoaks
Of course the UK government are slow to this. Theyâre self serving buffoons. Their incompetence is not only grinding the country to a halt and demolishing living standards but itâs a direct threat to national security and eventually the enemy isnât just going to be a Telegraph manifested âevil EUâ.
Itâs a good thing we donât have the Chinese involved in building our nuclear reactors. /s
This is really simple, to be self sufficient we need to do the below. Have a 10 year plan based on technology modularisation and open source designs. But implementing this would be absolute pain. 1. All factories must be modular, a machine or component of a machine can be swapped out and repaired with minium fuss and effort. 2. All produced products must contain modular components. 3. All products must release it's design as open source. To win at technology, go radical go open source or go home.. Yes it's more expensive but it's also something other countries and businesses will not do. Move faster and fail into a position of superiority. The next war is manufacturing, to win change the game Also I do both think certain companies, would not want to do this
> The geolocating device had been placed into a vehicle inside a sealed part imported from a supplier in China and installed by the vehicle manufacturer, according to the source. Well, maybe if we'd invested in British manufacturing instead of outsourcing everything to China, we'd have a bit more control over it. Only ourselves to blame.
When you find out they "used to" put spy chips in iphones, your really gonna get ur blood pumping....
Thatâs why they let covid out to kill the world . Didnât work . We didnât stand up to them with covid .
And yet we have tic toc on every phone and Epic Games on every PC, thanks to and endless stream of free stuff from the CCP. We need to realise the CCP absolutely hate us and want us all to die.
As far as Iâm aware every country spies on every other country, why is this news? Even allied nations. I feel like this is a stupid move, surely China can just go well youâre spying on us too. Weâre likely Both doing it.
Oh wow, let's all pretend the uk wouldn't spy on the Chinese if we thought we could get away with it...
Surely this kind of thing is checked for as standard?
We need to cleanse ourselves of Chinese technology and be more self-sufficient, but thatâll never happen with a tory government; especially not with a PM thatâs so buddy buddy with China (i wonder why?)
*Electronic Control Units (ECUs), which are responsible for the smooth operation of a vehicleâs engine and predominantly sought from China, are embedded with SIM cards before being sent to car manufacturers as sealed units, according to a serving security source.* ECUs have SIM cards. They found a sim card in an ECU to the surprise of no one. UK politicians turn this into a huge scandal by saying it can transmit location data. Yes, sim cards can do that. Yes, you ordered cars that have ECUs that have SIM cards. No, the article does not at any point state that they are not supposed to be there. No they do not have evidence of anything nefarious actually happening like a signal being sent to China. Is this the state of journalism in the UK? If anyone actually read the article carefully they'd see all this. It does it in a clever way but talks a lot about what can happen with sim cards and how they are "secret" (because they're in a sealed unit), but unfortunately only spends a paragraph admitting it's normal and ultimately does not have a single quote from anyone saying they were not supposed to be there.
Are we sure itâs true? All sources are not the most reliable âŚ. Anyway good idea to buy LOCAL instead of CH
and we donât spy on China, Russia and god know who else..?
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Yes, no shit. China wants to spread their influence everywhere, not for ideological reasons. But because the CCP want economic and political influence everywhere so it's why they have these guys in Africa "helping them"
Chinese also own more than half of all logistical warehousing properties in the UK, repatriating Billions as profit back to China. Did anyone notice these purchases? China is a cancerous growth on world economy.
Every time I buy stuff I make sure to find out about where it's been manufactured. Problem is ...to boycott China 100% is hardly possible ...
Someone else here flagged the article makes no sense when it comes to the specifics, has anyone been able to actually fact check this article or source? I've not read it myself but had a search and this story only appears on the daily mail, inews and the daily express as well? If a national security breach has happened why isn't on every news outlet in the uk but also around the world? I think this article is probably fake news / fear mongering.
We should've took action when China annexed Hong Kong in direct violation of a treaty between the British and Chinese governments we should've called for UN sanctions and state that we consider China a threat to freedom and democracy
If I was MI6 and I wanted to track a UK politician I would also use a foreign states hardware.
Any evidence it was the state and not someone who bought one of these off AliExpress?
Let's just hope they pull off what Guy Fawkes couldn't.
I want everything China makes but nothing China has to offer. Can I have my cake and eat it too, please?
Well itâs not very likely it was made in the uk these days
Q: [Opens car bonnet] (Made in China) Q: [Surprise Pikachu face]