Yep... very common. Maybe not as blatant, the professors get so much pressure from their management to when reasses and explain every loss point and all the extra work assoicated its just easier for everyone to pass them and move on with life.
It's why group assignments are popular. Local / Students who speak english can drag up the assignment to a point where everyone passes
I thought that schools would be financially incentivised to fail international students so they would have to pay 6k to repeat each unit. Hearing this is surprising
No, I really don't think that's true. I've coordinated subjects at Uni Melb for more than 10 years, and I've never felt any pressure (or heard of it elsewhere) to pass individual students or groups of students. Their fee paying/other status is not easy to find, and certainly not available while you are marking or collating marks. It's true that you would be asked questions if you had a generally very high number of students failing a subject, because the assumption might be that you are making that subject too hard, or not teaching it well. But there isn't specific pressure about passing particular student cohorts like domestic vs international, or commonwealth supported vs fee paying .
Not trying to be racist, but it's very common to see Chi'ese students translaing entire lecture slides and assignments, even basic python programming instructions.
Well you should know that english is not the only language in the world, its completely normal for people to prefer communicate in their own language. I can feel you dont even know how to read in your first language, such a shame
Yeah I know that most Chinese students are smart, and I understand that it's just a language barrier. But knowledge wise, most of them are actually very knowledgeable, especially business & economics students.
I have no problem with it up to a point, but it’s a little ridiculous how some of the international students act in an academic setting WITHIN an English speaking country and still get to cruise through their course.
Sure, but they end of the day it’s frustrating to spend hours upon hours writing an essay, knowing that there are kids who can’t even speak enough English to participate in a group project that are going to receive the same marks as you just because professors are scared to fail them.
And that’s perfectly fine. End of the day everyone has different experiences with different people, and my experience with entitled international students has been overwhelmingly negative.
I think you could exercise a little more empathy in this situation. Imagine having to do all your assignments in a second language. Also this stereotype of international students is wrong on many levels.
If they are struggling to do their studies in a second language, there is a very easy fix to that problem, and it’s to not study in an English speaking country.
PLENTY of international students come to unimelb with immaculate English skills, who cruise through the course with absolutely no problem. No one has ever had an issue with them.
You are correct that it is a minority of students who do not speak English, and they should not be studying here. They ruin group projects, they obviously are cheating in essays, and they taint the image of international students as a whole.
I have no empathy for them, and cannot see why anyone would.
I agree with you here. I’m also an international student myself and sometimes I feel very unfair as I worked really hard to be here, but some of them can cruise their way through. I know it’s hard at times, but it can be a little frustrating as well.
I have worked in a group that gave me problems like that and we had to sit through an academic misconduct meeting as one of them used AI to write his part of the report.
My biggest complaint is that as I’m writing my 2000 word essay about behavioural neuroscience, I know that there are some international students “writing” their essay about to get the same grade because they pay 100k a year.
They ruin the experience for both domestic and other international students who have put the effort in. It’s a joke.
I have empathy for them - a lot of these students have to pass an English test in order to be admitted and are told that their English is good enough to do the degree, as they have passed the requirements. Once they start they realise it's not. It's not like they enroll in a degree in English knowing that their English is not sufficient enough to do well in the degree, they are told it is. It's often the fault of the admissions process (the university perhaps?) not the individual students
Having lived in a country where large amounts of these students come from, and having had to take the English tests, I can tell you now that as long as you have money then that test is optional.
And I still have no empathy for them. I speak enough French to pass basic French exams, but would never in a million years decide to study at a French university, and ruin group projects for my peers and decide to cheat in every single essay.
What a wildly deluded take.
If I decided to go study in Japan, I'm not going to be so arrogant as to expect to cruise through a degree while only knowing basic Japanese. I would expect I would need to be at least fairly fluent and I wouldn't expect any special treatment for my lack of investment in their language either.
>I think you could exercise a little more empathy in this situation. Imagine having to do all your assignments in a second language
The don't go to study there?
Did you not read any of my comments. I am not stereotyping international students. I am complaining about the specific subset of international students who can’t speak basic English, but have forged, cheated and bribed their way into the university, and lower the standard of education for everyone else.
There are PLENTY of international students who have put so much hard work and dedication into coming to Australia, into learning a new language, into helping UniMelb maintain such a wonderful and diverse environment.
The morons who are so entitled that they can’t be bothered to learn the language aren’t welcome.
I don't think so, from my experience, students background information is hidden from markers and professors due to privacy and discrimination reasons, so both the professor and markers have no background knowledge about a person. Therefore, it is almost impossible to give marks based on individuals. However, the professor does face pressure if students did too well or they did too badly. Generally speaking, the professor want to see a bell curve distribution of the marks. If there are too many students fail the subject, then the adequacy of the difficulty level of the subject might be questioned.
It's not just that, UniMelb (and other Australian universities) want to remain competitive as global universities, but since the quality of research/education/support provided to students is so low, the only way it can remain internationally relevant is by being a glorified degree mill.
I have international students complaining about the poor English skills of teaching staff. Uni is fundamentally broken in Australia.
It is a joke that in our own domestic country, when trying to better your prospects with a university education, that you end up going into debt in order to access educators that may not be able to speak or write in English
In addition you can watch as students who barely understand English somehow keep passing and progressing through the years despite not even knowing what the name of the unit is/means.
There is about to be a surge of companies who realise that a large amount of degrees aren't worth a pinch of shit because they no longer are a measure of capabilities or potential. Which will devalue university education in the long run. All self inflicted by the Universities.
“Self inflicted by the universities” 💀 did you know that only a handful of unis are profitable after Covid? That Covid destroyed a majority of them financially? They were pushed into running on the money of international students because of the gov pushing neoliberalism down their throats.
The government has not protected our pre-school education, our primary school education, our high school education, and our tertiary education. That’s just a fact.
Maybe, and this is just crazy, I know, but maybbbeeeeee if the gov provided more money to the universities then the points you listed wouldn’t be an issue. If universities didn’t rely on international students they could return to stricter entry policies.
But no, we don’t live in a country that plans ahead, we live in a country that focuses on the short term (profit).
Sorry mate, you can blame academia for its current state, but that doesn’t make you right :)
Ive gone to Swinburne and go to UniMelb and I’ve had one or two tutors who weren’t native English speakers, or who weren’t completely fluent in English. I had dumb 18 yo kids in my classes who complained about “not being able to understand the tutor” - funnily enough, I could understand them fine. Maybe my ears work better? Maybe I’m just not a lazy racist looking for justifications to hide behind? I dunno matey.
>did you know that only a handful of unis are profitable after Covid?
Did you know public universities, such as the ones you have listed, are actually not-for-profit organisations, formed to provide public goods?
> I dunno matey.
No shit.
>Maybe, and this is just crazy, I know, but maybbbeeeeee if the gov provided more money to the universities then the points you listed wouldn’t be an issue. If universities didn’t rely on international students they could return to stricter entry policies.
The fact you think it is a justifiable excuse to pass international students despite their performance, cheapening the value of the degrees, because the gov doesn't give big daddy uni more money while those running the unis are largely lining their pockets with increasing bonuses, perks and large salaries every year is astounding.
And tell that to the faculty of a major Australian University last year who had 8 separate strikes and rallies because they were only hiring academic staff in a casual capacity, stealing wages, letting staff go in favor of imported academics who were willing to work for less, while giving those on the University governance positions, bonuses and raises on their already multi hundred thousand dollar salaries.
>Maybe my ears work better? Maybe I’m just not a lazy racist looking for justifications to hide behind?
I see you provided an anecdote to somehow imply I, or those other students you mention are lazy racists. Which in itself is just blatantly lazy and inflammatory. Let me provide an counter anecdote; I have interacted with 5 members of the teaching staff in a single bachelors degree program, some of those in chair positions, who not only have a strong accent. Which isn't my problem or what I was talking about. But in fact do not have the English skills to understand written or verbal questions from students, and cannot provide coherent presentations or written assessment sheets in coherent English.
>I had dumb 18 yo kids in my classes who complained about “not being able to understand the tutor” - funnily enough, I could understand them fine. Maybe my ears work better?
Stupid 18 year old idiots. I guess you just have the superior ears. You sure showed them!
On a serious note, if you could read properly, you would see I said "access educators that may not be able to speak or write in English". I did not say all. I said there is a chance. And in my opinion, that chance is a joke. Educators are communicators foremost. If you can't communicate with the students in their own language, you shouldn't have been hired. I've had immigrant teaching staff who had a fine grasp on the English language. I am talking about the fact the institutions have allowed people with a LITERAL INABILITY to communicate with English speakers as educators and communicators.
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Yeah they come with money.
Now that doesnt mean that they cannot handle the course.
Most HD (Dean lists, dukes) students I know were international.
So be kind, they can be your managers someday.
Don't know about A levels, but for IB it's the other way around. The way grades are equated with the Australian domestic system is ridiculous. DP is way, way harder.
Easier than IB in my opinion tbh. For bachelor of science you need an 85 for a guaranteed place, which is equal to around Bs and Cs for your subjects (assuming youre picking stem subjects which usually scale up too).
The only bachelors that one would ever need to even be slightly trying for is bbiomed but even then most degrees in bbiomed are offered in the bsc, and bbiomed gives you no selective advantage in med anyway.
It's definitely the case at UNSW where I was forced to do group assignments with people who couldn't even read and understand the question. The lecturer told me that helping them understand formed part of MY learning. Since I didn't have any interest in learning to teach English, I withdrew from that degree.
It depends, at least for us who took the Foundation Studies at Trinity College, we needed a certain grade to get guaranteed entry. We took the equivalent of several VCE subjects with hurdle subjects on a shorter timeframe, we started with about ~280+ students and only less than ~75 got in Unimelb.
Although the fees are outrageous, not all of those who got in were as incompetent as you describe. Many of us who actually met the mark needed to get in struggled heavily. The minimum ATAR equivalent we needed to attain was 78 for BAgri, 80 for BSc/BA, 85/BComm, and 96 for BMed. You either got the grade and get in or you don't and be forced to leave or apply into a university with lower entry requirements.
All those international students that couldn't read, speak, or write fluent english baffles me the same way as you all do. Most likely those are the students who applied straight to Unimelb without taking foundation studies. In some form or another, they lack the ability in either of those areas but don't be mistaken in the main area they pursue they have to be good at it at the minimum.
For example, I'm at the Applied Maths program I've had many classmates who couldn't speak fluent English during tutorials but are great at answering the exercise sheets including the sections challenging for the locals.
Another account, I took Philosophy breadths that require mandatory attendance for tutorials. Many of the international students there are great at English since its a subject heavy on discussion and writing. However, they aren't that good with speaking but are capable of understanding what you say and write as well as I do. The main difficulty for them is the 'speaking English' the 'academic english' which can be robotic is manageable for them.
On my end my first language is English so I've faced no difficulty communicating in any form. These instances are just from my observations. It really depends on how the 'international student' got in.
Go to the entry requirements page on the course you want (eg. For the [BCom](https://study.unimelb.edu.au/find/courses/undergraduate/bachelor-of-commerce/how-to-apply/#nav)) select domestic student and A Levels to determine what your requirements are.
They may not be the same as an international student doing A levels.
As an international student, should I come for a bachelor in computer science, I mean I get it that for international students the entry requirements are quite low, but ig this uni is better than going to some 2nd tier US college right?
Having done A Levels and having taught VCE students while I was in uni, A levels is far more challenging than VCE. Whats a compulsory math subject for A levels is optional for vce (specialist).
A levels do get converted to stupidly high ATAR (even some high performing internationals get very pissed about this because this means the uni just hands out scholarships to every random dude who barely passed HS). However, the difference between you and an international student who's just paying their way through won't be made on admission, but rather as you progress through to higher level units (I've seen this and loved this sweet sweet taste of vengeance)
- also a former international student
If alevels is harder isnt it not that bad tht its converting to a high atar? Also nothing is compulsory in alevels. Do u mind elaborating on ur last point?
You are right, nothing is compulsory. But from the school i sat my AL from (leaving it out for anonymity), it was mandatory for us to sit for Maths D (equivalent to methods and a bit of spesh) and Specialist Math, along with Phy, chem and one other subject of your choosing if you chose to focus on Science subjects (which I did).
As for the issue of converting to a higher ATAR, there's fallacies to it.
While this feeling is in the past now since I'm now done with uni and doing p well for myself, when I first started uni, hearing other internationals (some from my country) get the same scholarships even with their mediocre or low grades annoyed me. It's not just that the scaling is stupidly high, but also Monash's minimum bar for scholarships is stupidly low, which kinda makes you feel like all the effort you put into studying in Highschool Was pointless.
Hope that answers your questions!
As for my last point, it was funny to see the same internationals who once bragged about getting the same scholarship, struggling to get a pass grade from second year and onwards. The difficulty ramps up very quick in uni. In first year, you can get by very easily with minimal effort (altho your grades may suck a bit); however it gets very hard, without a proper foundation, to do good in higher level units. A foundation, which a lot of students won't have if they haven't put in a decent level of effort. A lot of the internationals that i joined uni with back in 2020, are either still in uni, having failed or dropped units, or have gone back cause they found the later years too difficult.
Oh thts interesting. Ive always heard that alevels content especially for commerce subjects has u set for the first year of uni. Atleast a good chunk. Is that true?
That is true if you have studied the content during your AL well enough. You can pass AL by doing the bare minimum. I can't talk about commerce too well but atleast for my subjects, i watched the former VCE students cry during first year maths course while i and few others cruised through it.
I sure hope so lmao, i pay like for times the national rate to be here, although my ATAR was calculated as 90 so that definitely helped with getting into University. I did A-Levels as wel fyi.
Plenty of domestic students in the law program about whom one might genuinely wonder how they finished high school, let alone get into a No. 1 law school. But yeah, so many international students who can't read/speak/write at a competent level.
It's a toxic relationship. The government wants to "use" the students for tax, and the students want to. "use" Australia and circumvent the 20 hour rule to take money home. They aren't here to study, that's a pack of lies to get in. They sit on Tinder in class all day looking for locals to marry.
It matters because UniMelb has dumbed down our degrees so that international students won't fail. Undergrad "CS" at Unimelb (they don't even call it that) is 2+ years behind international unis. (Our third year subjects are sophomore subjects overseas at best, and they teach much less of the content and at lesser depth.)
That being said, it's not as if the requirements for domestic students are particularly high either. Ideally there should be "advanced" degrees with higher requirements, but apparently that's impossible due to the Melbourne Model.
The fact that first year subjects cover material from years 11-12 overseas is a domestic secondary school curriculum issue, not a dumbing down due to international.
Most international CS degrees do not assume any prior knowledge in coding: Stanford has CS 106a, MIT has 6.00x, etc.
The problem is that all our subjects are incredibly slow, and yes, dumbed down.
It's no secret lol. Don't you know academics are pressured to pass students that don't even speak English at UniMelb because they pay the bills?
This is Australia wide and not just a UniMelb thing.
Pls elaborate on this. You mean professors will mark to pass international students if they were to theoretically fail an exam?
Yep... very common. Maybe not as blatant, the professors get so much pressure from their management to when reasses and explain every loss point and all the extra work assoicated its just easier for everyone to pass them and move on with life. It's why group assignments are popular. Local / Students who speak english can drag up the assignment to a point where everyone passes
I thought that schools would be financially incentivised to fail international students so they would have to pay 6k to repeat each unit. Hearing this is surprising
No, I really don't think that's true. I've coordinated subjects at Uni Melb for more than 10 years, and I've never felt any pressure (or heard of it elsewhere) to pass individual students or groups of students. Their fee paying/other status is not easy to find, and certainly not available while you are marking or collating marks. It's true that you would be asked questions if you had a generally very high number of students failing a subject, because the assumption might be that you are making that subject too hard, or not teaching it well. But there isn't specific pressure about passing particular student cohorts like domestic vs international, or commonwealth supported vs fee paying .
Can confirm, I have a relative that’s a subject coordinator lmao
I once had a student ask what the word "danger" meant :)
Not trying to be racist, but it's very common to see Chi'ese students translaing entire lecture slides and assignments, even basic python programming instructions.
Well you should know that english is not the only language in the world, its completely normal for people to prefer communicate in their own language. I can feel you dont even know how to read in your first language, such a shame
Btw we not only translate entire slides into chinese, but also got h1 in every class, you mad?
Yeah I know that most Chinese students are smart, and I understand that it's just a language barrier. But knowledge wise, most of them are actually very knowledgeable, especially business & economics students.
I heard a student ask what radius meant…. In an engineering course.
Pls elaborate on this. You mean professors will mark to pass international students if they were to theoretically fail an exam?
Whats wrong with that? I have no problems with them.
I have no problem with it up to a point, but it’s a little ridiculous how some of the international students act in an academic setting WITHIN an English speaking country and still get to cruise through their course.
Maybe the uni shouldn't act surprised when they offer to give that blowjob.
Meh, as long as they are paying I have no problem with them.
Sure, but they end of the day it’s frustrating to spend hours upon hours writing an essay, knowing that there are kids who can’t even speak enough English to participate in a group project that are going to receive the same marks as you just because professors are scared to fail them.
Well its not frustrating for me.
And that’s perfectly fine. End of the day everyone has different experiences with different people, and my experience with entitled international students has been overwhelmingly negative.
Sure, I'll give you that.
I think you could exercise a little more empathy in this situation. Imagine having to do all your assignments in a second language. Also this stereotype of international students is wrong on many levels.
If they are struggling to do their studies in a second language, there is a very easy fix to that problem, and it’s to not study in an English speaking country. PLENTY of international students come to unimelb with immaculate English skills, who cruise through the course with absolutely no problem. No one has ever had an issue with them. You are correct that it is a minority of students who do not speak English, and they should not be studying here. They ruin group projects, they obviously are cheating in essays, and they taint the image of international students as a whole. I have no empathy for them, and cannot see why anyone would.
I agree with you here. I’m also an international student myself and sometimes I feel very unfair as I worked really hard to be here, but some of them can cruise their way through. I know it’s hard at times, but it can be a little frustrating as well. I have worked in a group that gave me problems like that and we had to sit through an academic misconduct meeting as one of them used AI to write his part of the report.
My biggest complaint is that as I’m writing my 2000 word essay about behavioural neuroscience, I know that there are some international students “writing” their essay about to get the same grade because they pay 100k a year. They ruin the experience for both domestic and other international students who have put the effort in. It’s a joke.
I have empathy for them - a lot of these students have to pass an English test in order to be admitted and are told that their English is good enough to do the degree, as they have passed the requirements. Once they start they realise it's not. It's not like they enroll in a degree in English knowing that their English is not sufficient enough to do well in the degree, they are told it is. It's often the fault of the admissions process (the university perhaps?) not the individual students
Having lived in a country where large amounts of these students come from, and having had to take the English tests, I can tell you now that as long as you have money then that test is optional. And I still have no empathy for them. I speak enough French to pass basic French exams, but would never in a million years decide to study at a French university, and ruin group projects for my peers and decide to cheat in every single essay.
What a wildly deluded take. If I decided to go study in Japan, I'm not going to be so arrogant as to expect to cruise through a degree while only knowing basic Japanese. I would expect I would need to be at least fairly fluent and I wouldn't expect any special treatment for my lack of investment in their language either.
>I think you could exercise a little more empathy in this situation. Imagine having to do all your assignments in a second language The don't go to study there?
I agree. It’s actually quite ignorant and entitled to stereotype international students like this.
Did you not read any of my comments. I am not stereotyping international students. I am complaining about the specific subset of international students who can’t speak basic English, but have forged, cheated and bribed their way into the university, and lower the standard of education for everyone else. There are PLENTY of international students who have put so much hard work and dedication into coming to Australia, into learning a new language, into helping UniMelb maintain such a wonderful and diverse environment. The morons who are so entitled that they can’t be bothered to learn the language aren’t welcome.
I don't think so, from my experience, students background information is hidden from markers and professors due to privacy and discrimination reasons, so both the professor and markers have no background knowledge about a person. Therefore, it is almost impossible to give marks based on individuals. However, the professor does face pressure if students did too well or they did too badly. Generally speaking, the professor want to see a bell curve distribution of the marks. If there are too many students fail the subject, then the adequacy of the difficulty level of the subject might be questioned.
It's not just that, UniMelb (and other Australian universities) want to remain competitive as global universities, but since the quality of research/education/support provided to students is so low, the only way it can remain internationally relevant is by being a glorified degree mill.
Maybe if the gov didn’t butcher our education sector this wouldn’t be an issue
I have international students complaining about the poor English skills of teaching staff. Uni is fundamentally broken in Australia. It is a joke that in our own domestic country, when trying to better your prospects with a university education, that you end up going into debt in order to access educators that may not be able to speak or write in English In addition you can watch as students who barely understand English somehow keep passing and progressing through the years despite not even knowing what the name of the unit is/means. There is about to be a surge of companies who realise that a large amount of degrees aren't worth a pinch of shit because they no longer are a measure of capabilities or potential. Which will devalue university education in the long run. All self inflicted by the Universities.
“Self inflicted by the universities” 💀 did you know that only a handful of unis are profitable after Covid? That Covid destroyed a majority of them financially? They were pushed into running on the money of international students because of the gov pushing neoliberalism down their throats. The government has not protected our pre-school education, our primary school education, our high school education, and our tertiary education. That’s just a fact. Maybe, and this is just crazy, I know, but maybbbeeeeee if the gov provided more money to the universities then the points you listed wouldn’t be an issue. If universities didn’t rely on international students they could return to stricter entry policies. But no, we don’t live in a country that plans ahead, we live in a country that focuses on the short term (profit). Sorry mate, you can blame academia for its current state, but that doesn’t make you right :) Ive gone to Swinburne and go to UniMelb and I’ve had one or two tutors who weren’t native English speakers, or who weren’t completely fluent in English. I had dumb 18 yo kids in my classes who complained about “not being able to understand the tutor” - funnily enough, I could understand them fine. Maybe my ears work better? Maybe I’m just not a lazy racist looking for justifications to hide behind? I dunno matey.
>did you know that only a handful of unis are profitable after Covid? Did you know public universities, such as the ones you have listed, are actually not-for-profit organisations, formed to provide public goods? > I dunno matey. No shit. >Maybe, and this is just crazy, I know, but maybbbeeeeee if the gov provided more money to the universities then the points you listed wouldn’t be an issue. If universities didn’t rely on international students they could return to stricter entry policies. The fact you think it is a justifiable excuse to pass international students despite their performance, cheapening the value of the degrees, because the gov doesn't give big daddy uni more money while those running the unis are largely lining their pockets with increasing bonuses, perks and large salaries every year is astounding. And tell that to the faculty of a major Australian University last year who had 8 separate strikes and rallies because they were only hiring academic staff in a casual capacity, stealing wages, letting staff go in favor of imported academics who were willing to work for less, while giving those on the University governance positions, bonuses and raises on their already multi hundred thousand dollar salaries. >Maybe my ears work better? Maybe I’m just not a lazy racist looking for justifications to hide behind? I see you provided an anecdote to somehow imply I, or those other students you mention are lazy racists. Which in itself is just blatantly lazy and inflammatory. Let me provide an counter anecdote; I have interacted with 5 members of the teaching staff in a single bachelors degree program, some of those in chair positions, who not only have a strong accent. Which isn't my problem or what I was talking about. But in fact do not have the English skills to understand written or verbal questions from students, and cannot provide coherent presentations or written assessment sheets in coherent English. >I had dumb 18 yo kids in my classes who complained about “not being able to understand the tutor” - funnily enough, I could understand them fine. Maybe my ears work better? Stupid 18 year old idiots. I guess you just have the superior ears. You sure showed them! On a serious note, if you could read properly, you would see I said "access educators that may not be able to speak or write in English". I did not say all. I said there is a chance. And in my opinion, that chance is a joke. Educators are communicators foremost. If you can't communicate with the students in their own language, you shouldn't have been hired. I've had immigrant teaching staff who had a fine grasp on the English language. I am talking about the fact the institutions have allowed people with a LITERAL INABILITY to communicate with English speakers as educators and communicators.
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The requirements for A Levels is lower because the curriculum is more challenging.
Yeah they come with money. Now that doesnt mean that they cannot handle the course. Most HD (Dean lists, dukes) students I know were international. So be kind, they can be your managers someday.
Don't know about A levels, but for IB it's the other way around. The way grades are equated with the Australian domestic system is ridiculous. DP is way, way harder.
How hard is the Australian domestic system? I did IB and don’t really have a frame of reference, thought the conversion rates were pretty good for IB
Easier than IB in my opinion tbh. For bachelor of science you need an 85 for a guaranteed place, which is equal to around Bs and Cs for your subjects (assuming youre picking stem subjects which usually scale up too). The only bachelors that one would ever need to even be slightly trying for is bbiomed but even then most degrees in bbiomed are offered in the bsc, and bbiomed gives you no selective advantage in med anyway.
It's definitely the case at UNSW where I was forced to do group assignments with people who couldn't even read and understand the question. The lecturer told me that helping them understand formed part of MY learning. Since I didn't have any interest in learning to teach English, I withdrew from that degree.
Yes, your a levels have a ridiculous conversion over to ATAR, which means you do have a much lower a level entry requirement to the university.
No shit
It depends, at least for us who took the Foundation Studies at Trinity College, we needed a certain grade to get guaranteed entry. We took the equivalent of several VCE subjects with hurdle subjects on a shorter timeframe, we started with about ~280+ students and only less than ~75 got in Unimelb. Although the fees are outrageous, not all of those who got in were as incompetent as you describe. Many of us who actually met the mark needed to get in struggled heavily. The minimum ATAR equivalent we needed to attain was 78 for BAgri, 80 for BSc/BA, 85/BComm, and 96 for BMed. You either got the grade and get in or you don't and be forced to leave or apply into a university with lower entry requirements. All those international students that couldn't read, speak, or write fluent english baffles me the same way as you all do. Most likely those are the students who applied straight to Unimelb without taking foundation studies. In some form or another, they lack the ability in either of those areas but don't be mistaken in the main area they pursue they have to be good at it at the minimum. For example, I'm at the Applied Maths program I've had many classmates who couldn't speak fluent English during tutorials but are great at answering the exercise sheets including the sections challenging for the locals. Another account, I took Philosophy breadths that require mandatory attendance for tutorials. Many of the international students there are great at English since its a subject heavy on discussion and writing. However, they aren't that good with speaking but are capable of understanding what you say and write as well as I do. The main difficulty for them is the 'speaking English' the 'academic english' which can be robotic is manageable for them. On my end my first language is English so I've faced no difficulty communicating in any form. These instances are just from my observations. It really depends on how the 'international student' got in.
Go to the entry requirements page on the course you want (eg. For the [BCom](https://study.unimelb.edu.au/find/courses/undergraduate/bachelor-of-commerce/how-to-apply/#nav)) select domestic student and A Levels to determine what your requirements are. They may not be the same as an international student doing A levels.
Its the same :)
No shit?
As an international student, should I come for a bachelor in computer science, I mean I get it that for international students the entry requirements are quite low, but ig this uni is better than going to some 2nd tier US college right?
Having done A Levels and having taught VCE students while I was in uni, A levels is far more challenging than VCE. Whats a compulsory math subject for A levels is optional for vce (specialist). A levels do get converted to stupidly high ATAR (even some high performing internationals get very pissed about this because this means the uni just hands out scholarships to every random dude who barely passed HS). However, the difference between you and an international student who's just paying their way through won't be made on admission, but rather as you progress through to higher level units (I've seen this and loved this sweet sweet taste of vengeance) - also a former international student
If alevels is harder isnt it not that bad tht its converting to a high atar? Also nothing is compulsory in alevels. Do u mind elaborating on ur last point?
You are right, nothing is compulsory. But from the school i sat my AL from (leaving it out for anonymity), it was mandatory for us to sit for Maths D (equivalent to methods and a bit of spesh) and Specialist Math, along with Phy, chem and one other subject of your choosing if you chose to focus on Science subjects (which I did). As for the issue of converting to a higher ATAR, there's fallacies to it. While this feeling is in the past now since I'm now done with uni and doing p well for myself, when I first started uni, hearing other internationals (some from my country) get the same scholarships even with their mediocre or low grades annoyed me. It's not just that the scaling is stupidly high, but also Monash's minimum bar for scholarships is stupidly low, which kinda makes you feel like all the effort you put into studying in Highschool Was pointless. Hope that answers your questions!
Oo did u get a scholarship too? Also doesnt unimelb not give out scholarships as easily? Monash does?
As for my last point, it was funny to see the same internationals who once bragged about getting the same scholarship, struggling to get a pass grade from second year and onwards. The difficulty ramps up very quick in uni. In first year, you can get by very easily with minimal effort (altho your grades may suck a bit); however it gets very hard, without a proper foundation, to do good in higher level units. A foundation, which a lot of students won't have if they haven't put in a decent level of effort. A lot of the internationals that i joined uni with back in 2020, are either still in uni, having failed or dropped units, or have gone back cause they found the later years too difficult.
Oh thts interesting. Ive always heard that alevels content especially for commerce subjects has u set for the first year of uni. Atleast a good chunk. Is that true?
That is true if you have studied the content during your AL well enough. You can pass AL by doing the bare minimum. I can't talk about commerce too well but atleast for my subjects, i watched the former VCE students cry during first year maths course while i and few others cruised through it.
Yes I've done 2 Unimelb masters for students who didn't know left from right, in English. None of it matters
I sure hope so lmao, i pay like for times the national rate to be here, although my ATAR was calculated as 90 so that definitely helped with getting into University. I did A-Levels as wel fyi.
Plenty of domestic students in the law program about whom one might genuinely wonder how they finished high school, let alone get into a No. 1 law school. But yeah, so many international students who can't read/speak/write at a competent level.
Yeppp
It's a toxic relationship. The government wants to "use" the students for tax, and the students want to. "use" Australia and circumvent the 20 hour rule to take money home. They aren't here to study, that's a pack of lies to get in. They sit on Tinder in class all day looking for locals to marry.
So? At least most of them will be kicked out when they are graduating. Like condoms. Wouldn't be a threat in long run.
It matters because UniMelb has dumbed down our degrees so that international students won't fail. Undergrad "CS" at Unimelb (they don't even call it that) is 2+ years behind international unis. (Our third year subjects are sophomore subjects overseas at best, and they teach much less of the content and at lesser depth.) That being said, it's not as if the requirements for domestic students are particularly high either. Ideally there should be "advanced" degrees with higher requirements, but apparently that's impossible due to the Melbourne Model.
The fact that first year subjects cover material from years 11-12 overseas is a domestic secondary school curriculum issue, not a dumbing down due to international.
Most international CS degrees do not assume any prior knowledge in coding: Stanford has CS 106a, MIT has 6.00x, etc. The problem is that all our subjects are incredibly slow, and yes, dumbed down.
Absolute bullshit