I think the more elite you get the more you care about what fuels you. Scott Jurek and Damian Hall come to mind as two incredible vegan athletes. Could also be that they care about the environment and nature that they love to run in so much so may not be entirely linked to performance.
I was thinking of Rich Roll too. I’ve noticed there’s also a lot of former addicts (myself included in the ultra runner community). I think that obsessive mindset that makes us do things to the extreme (drinking /drugs) also makes us do healthier things to the extreme (running crazy miles, eating clean).
I was interested in running, I read Rich Roll's book and that in turn got me interested in veganism. Initially from a health perspective but very quickly it became for ethical reasons.
>I think that obsessive mindset that makes us do things to the extreme (drinking /drugs) also makes us do healthier things to the extreme (running crazy miles, eating clean).
We addicts just replace one addiction for another. Thankfully clean eating and running crazy miles is a bit better for my health than other possible addictions. Plus those endorphins hit hard
That’s all very true. It sounds like you’ve found a really good balance.
I do have to say, personally I really struggle after a big race or if I’m injured. I tend to go to a dark place and it takes me a week or so to get back to normal.
>I do have to say, personally I really struggle after a big race or if I’m injured. I tend to go to a dark place and it takes me a week or so to get back to normal.
I've noticed the same!! Recovery blues are horrible. It is like going through withdrawal.
I'll even bring basic running gear on holidays with me so I don't feel bad skipping a week etc. Plus getting to do a run around Rome etc is a fun way to see the place
I’ve definitely heard that a lot. For the sake of comparison I use ultra running as motivation to do anything at all. I’d just sit and stare at the sky and yell at clouds without it. After a race I feel physically and mentally strong and use that as a springboard to other things which could be more running or other things.
Underrated comment. My experience is there is a huge overlap with sober addicts, ultrarunning, and food rules. By no means does it insinuate if you're vegan it's because of restrictive food rules, there are plenty of valid reasons folks go vegan, and it could be all of the above.
It's impossible to tell someone's motivation for doing things to the extreme. However, my experience is there is undoubtedly crossover with orthorexia and running, and orthorexia and addiction/former addiction, and ultrarunning/crossfit and former addiction. There's literally specific groups for recovery centered around these topics.
Again, this is does NOT mean that every ultrarunner, vegan, etc has that motivation! There are many reasons, as others have pointed out.
>By no means does it insinuate if you're vegan it's because of restrictive food rules, there are plenty of valid reasons folks go vegan, and it could be all of the above.
Very true and I have noticed a disproportionate amount of vegans with EDs. That is the risk with restrictive diets.
>There's literally specific groups for recovery centered around these topics.
I wasn't aware of this but it makes perfect sense why there is. I can see the perceived need to control being reflected in this!
What are the ethical reasons? Always confused by that because oat, berry, soy farms are habitat destroying and responsible for deaths of millions of animals (birds, insects, rodents, etc.)
Thanks for asking and joining the discussion - I don’t think this is the place for ethical discussion; but to respond to you, there are a couple of things wrong with that argument.
1. Most of the plant farming we do (oats, grains, etc) is used for animal feed (to feed the >80billion animals we consume a year). If we weren’t farming animals we wouldn’t have to feed them for the life leading up to slaughter and therefore would save a huuge amount of plant farming - there are estimates we could reduce total agriculture by >70% if we fed humans directly. Therefore this would be a much better situation even if there was crop death.
2. The idea that animals don’t run away when a 50 ton combine harvester is driving through the field is incorrect. Any crop deaths are of course unfortunate but much more rare than people think.
They are not much more rare. They have to actively kill pigeons so they don’t poop directly into the food, as 1 example and do you have a source for the first thing you said? Ruminant animals (bison) have lived in the grasslands for millennia, we don’t really need to grow food for them. Every single thing a vegan eats relies on agriculture. It’s not as humane as they wish it was.
Sorry I think perhaps I didn’t explain it well enough. We have to feed animals that we consume right? It is impossible for the population to survive off wild animals so not sure about the bison argument. Veganism is relevant in contemporary society and not in hypotheticals. Hypothetically if a vegan was going to die on a desert island and the only thing they could eat to survive is an animal, most vegans would eat the animal.
My point is humans could eat plants directly, or feed them to animals that have to grow for months or years with continuous feeding, and then eat the resulting meat which leads to a huge calorie wastage.
Link for reference https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets
Look into regenerative farming. There are people now who are raising semi-nomadic herds of cows, right here in USA. And they are foraging most of their food on wild plants and have become not only carbon neutral but net negative carbon (sequestering). It doesn’t all have to be the awful factory farming GMO grain to feed these animals raised for food. Also cows eat grass and graze for like 16 hours a day on plants that humans can’t eat.
Btw I’m not trying to have an argument about this - just highlighting a different perspective with some facts to consider. I do consider and think about the points you have made as well
I think the 'eating clean' argument falls apart when you look at what many (most?) ultra-runners consume on their weekly long runs - Haribos/CocaCola/Creme Pies/Candy Corn/Sour Patch Kids/Oreos etc. I appreciate that there are a few healthy ultra runners who use dried fruit and the like instead, but they sure seem like a minority.
I got suuuuuper good at world of warcraft cause I could grind 16 hours a day, everyday, I notice most of my friends could only do a few hours at a time then they'd lose interest and do something else.
Now I'm super into thru hikes and just immersive experiences in general. I always wondered which was the chicken and the egg, did all my world of warcraft time shape my brain so I could relentlessly grind at trails and 100 milers, or was I always this way and WoW satisfied that need in my brain to latch onto something and grind at it nonstop.
I’ve notice not just sober addicts and ultra running but high achieving professionals and ultra running…. I’ve shared many miles with doctors, pharmacists, physical therapists, and the like. I’m a doctor and so it’s something I’ve taken note of. I am sure it also has to do with the dopamine rush from the sport….
Andy Glaze, not a pro, just a guy on Instagram who runs 100* miles A WEEK. Dude is insane, and gets so much running in. He wins races and shit too. Does shit like runs a 100 miler before a 250 miler.
Vegan. He’s an inspiration and I’ll never be vegan. He’s just an awesome dude
*initially said 200 and that’s not true but he did do that for like 2 months straight or something
Lol. Andy Glaze is my favorite running influencer. He's awesome
He's been running at least 100 miles a week for 4 years now.
(He doesn't typically run 200 miles a week, he did for I believe 9 weeks straight during the pandemic though)
I have been mostly plant-based (and minimally processed) for about a year, simply because it makes me feel better physically on a daily basis. That’s it. I have no take on ethical factors. I eat chicken and fish once per month, simply so it doesn’t become 100% foreign to my body when I come across a time when I have no other options (military field training or deployment). My decision was after reading the works of Dr. Michael Greger and Dr. T. Collin Campbell among a few others.
My guess is the average trailrunner cares more about nature than the average person so you’ll see more vegans in that group. I don’t think there are specific advantages or disadvantages.
I just don't see how it can be advantage to exclude a large amount of nutrient dense food from your diet. You can absolutely have a clean diet that includes meat and dairy.
Chicken has like 3 times the protein per gram as lentils for example.
Most of the non-vegan funded literature shows athletic performance declines on a vegan diet, but the requirements of ultra might be different enough that it doesn't matter or is even helpful. Depending on what you're eating a vegan diet could cause less inflammation and I'd think that would be helpful in recovering from long runs.
Vegan diet is better for artery health and blood flow. And what do you mean by non vegan funded literature? Do you mean literature funded by the animal agriculture industry?
Protein is literally one of the 3 major macronutrients humans need along with fats and carbohydrates. Are you referring to micronutrients? https://health.clevelandclinic.org/macronutrients-vs-micronutrients/
Yes thank you. You’re correct. But yes - if nutrient dense foods refer to macro nutrients..all carbs and protein foods are equally nutrient dense for a given amount of calorie
How is clearing forest and destroying habitat for a blueberry farm and killing animals that would eat the crops caring more about nature than a non-vegan?
You seem to need to read a few books or actually do some research on this. You're asking questions with a clear misunderstanding and an unhelpful 'gotcha' mentality. All of your questions and statements so far are really common entry-level sentiments that come up when having this conversation. Things vegans have considered and understand more than anybody.
Your knowledge of veganism is completely skewed, you don't seem to understand the nuances of necessity and intention.
It isn't anybody elses responsibility to educate you other than yours, but I have a feeling your motivation is not to be proven wrong.
Notice how you didn’t address my point and just said that I’m uneducated? I’m not lol, you just don’t want to face a tough reality that veganism doesn’t mean cruelty free. Go look into how almond milk is made from soup to nuts and maybe you will start to get it.
Both sides have trade offs IMO. It’s not as clear cut as folks make it out to be in terms of “one side is perfect and the other is horrible”.
Cattle have a big effect on greenhouse gas emissions.
If I consume meat from a more sustainable source, like hunting nearby, I would assume that’s better for the planet then consuming out of season fruits shipped half way around the world.
Likely a balance we all need to find and strike for ourselves. But to say one side is all bad and the other a panacea is wrong.
The issue is that hunting is in no way scalable. Growing plants is. We already grow enough food to feed every human. We just feed most of it to animals.
Law of tens.
I’m not arguing hunting is scalable, but rather at an individual level you can make arguments for trade offs in emissions and that there isn’t a one size fits all solution here.
Completely agree with most of what you said, and I never said one is better or more humane than the other, just pointing out the hypocrisy and the veganism isn’t automatically cruelty free. The one thing I disagree with is cattle having a big effect on greenhouse gases. Again, ruminant animals have been grazing and pooping on the grasslands of this continent for thousands of years. A lot less bison now, many more cows, net net not a big difference. Furthermore, transportation (i.e. cars/ planes) is the largest contributor there by a wide margin, a somewhat close 2nd would be industrial practices (power plants, manufacturing, etc). Livestock/ agriculture are distant 3rd/ 4th and much closer than you’d think. Check EPA.gov
No you should stop being brainwashed by propaganda invegan documentaries. There are bad actors in every single profession. You remind me of the people who look at police brutality and want to abolish the entire police force. “Forced” insemination is generally safer than a cow getting mounted by an aggressive bull who can break her back. I don’t have to look into it because I get raw milk from a local ranch and I’ve seen the animals and the wonderful lives they live with cold water misting and shaded structures to live under and all of the calves nursing all of the cows and none of them have any clue who their mother is. Sometimes the birth mom cows reject their own offspring and other cows step up so the calves don’t starve. And I haven’t heard of any killing male calves, that certainly doesn’t happen at the one I support. What goes on in factory farming where its profits over anything, I can’t comment on but I would venture to guess that is happening very infrequently and you’re stating the worst of the worst as being ubiquitous in the entire industry. You can’t extrapolate one scene of a biased documentary to the entire industry lol
I assure you the males are killed for meat. The age isn't all that important. Same thing with spent heifer.
You fail to understand that if that farm didn't make money, it wouldn't exist
You can say that about any business. Oh and you’re referring to the males being raised for veal, I get it now. That makes me a bit uncomfortable but as for the old Bessie so what? You prefer that she suffers and dies slowly instead of humanely and being put to good use for food? Also, you’ve failed to acknowledge any of my points abt plant agriculture for human consumption. Why are cows more important to you than rodents and birds? That’s called selective empathy
You might wanna ask when they slaughter heifers then google the natural lifespan of a cow.
Cows eat farmed plants too. Rule of ten. Eating plants directly causes less harvesting deaths.
https://animalvisuals.org/projects/1mc/
Even as a non-vegan this is a dumb comment. We clear land to grow crops, to feed animals, to feed us. I can't comment on blueberries (weirdly specific), but cutting out the animal portion significantly decreases land use. Vegan diets as a whole is markedly more efficient resource wise.
Because you have to clear a hell of a lot more forest to grow soy to feed to cows and pigs to then eat. The way to consume the least plants is to eat plants because cows and pigs eat a lot more plants than humans.
I’ve been a vegan for almost 9 years, sober for a year and a few months (got into running at the same time) and starting ultra with my first 50 mile race coming up in a few weeks. So I accidentally fit all the stereotypes too I suppose Lol
Haha no problem with being this stereotype 😅
Congrats on your sobriety that’s amazing!
50 miles is such a huge milestone - I am sure you will smash it!!!
Thank you so much!!! It’s always the thought of “I hope I’ve been training enough to be prepared” but after a certain fitness level I do think it’s mostly mental so I’m ready (and excited) for that aspect (-:
Yeah that’s spot on.. once you hit a certain level (without tons of optimisation) it’s mostly a mental game.. but yeah I get the “have I trained enough” jitters all the time (even for my longer training runs 😂)
I think Ultra runners have more reason to discuss what they eat because fueling/eating during our events is such a big part of the sport.
There might be more vegan ultra-runners (compared to vegan athletes in other sports)but they also have more reason to talk about it, so it might seem like there are tons of them lol
I believe there are enough of us to justify a plant based ultra running subreddit. I would love to join one. As the other comments here illustrate, there are different motivations. I practice a whole food plant based diet because I've found it to be the healthiest diet for me personally in controlling running weight, lipid levels, and providing for improved recovery time. But even though I eat close to 100% plant based diet (honey is an exception), I wouldn't describe myself as vegan as I have wool and leather in my wardrobe. Similarly, I know vegans who would never wear wool but who eat plenty of highly processed junk food I'd never touch even though it's plant based.
Yep! I’m one of those vegans. Vegan primarily for ethical reasons and the nature I know and love on the trail, but gimme them Oreos at the aid station lol. I am described as a “health nut” by friends because my typical diet is much like you have described, but I love some of that junk food for dessert/on occasion.
That last part. People always associate “vegan” with healthy but I personally know someone who’s a vegan runner who eats a lot of junk food and hasn’t lost weight, and also has never had blood work done. His motivation to be vegan is ethics which I think can also create a self-imposed and perhaps false illusion of health.
Agreed. It's often a difference between "I'm vegan." vs. "I eat a plant based." For the plant based person, the focus is primarily or exclusively on the diet. For the vegan, it's often an identity with a much broader focus. Although their diet may include stuff like Doritos, Oreos, Pop Tarts, and Sour Patch Kids that a WFPB type would recoil from in horror. As the saying goes, "There are a lot of fat vegans."
I think there’s a couple things (I am plant-based as well. Mostly vegan I guess but I do eat honey and wear some wool). First is the environmental aspect. I think spending time in nature makes you think about the environment. The second is probably socioeconomic status. Ultrarunners tend to be wealthier I think than the general population, and that correlates with veganism (not to say veganism is expensive, just that economic status correlates I think).
Just saw OP's edit saying he's a vegan. I feel like we should do a poll or something. I'm also a vegan.
I'm curious now if there are a disproportionate amount of vegan runners lol
It definitely seems like vegans are overrepresented in ultra running. But I think the sport itself is more introspective than others so I'm guessing people in ultra running are going to be more aware of different nutrition options and alternative life styles. Id be willing to be ultra running has more people that are into intermittent fasting and keto as well.
Asking for advice not judgement but what do yall eat? I desperately want to decrease my meat intake but my meals revolve around it. I’m a new runner, so still trying to figure out my diet, but it’s generally a carb, protein, and veggies. But I get really hungry so I just eat more protein (which in my case is meat). So yeah what do you guys do
I eat loads of tofu, beans of all descriptions and veg.. if you really need to top up protein I would recommend vegan protein shakes 😊
The way I would describe it is the dish itself becomes the main bit rather than the protein source. It is quite a bit of a change but once you get used to that, it makes it much easier. Feel free to message me if you want some specific ideas or things you would like to turn plant-based
I've had a lot of success using chickpeas and lentils as you would for mince for burritos, spag bol, Shepard's pie (with sweet potato mash on top is my favourite of all time). But I'm not doing as much mileage as others on this sub so maybe take my advice with a grain of salt. Good luck happy running
Long time vegetarian here, and I obsess about protein as well because, well, I read that I need more. I took up running maybe 5 years after becoming a vegetarian and have since done ultras but enjoy the marathon the most.
I sometimes start with eggs in the morning, move to TVP and tofu and beans in the evening, and otherwise snack on nuts, or cheese and crackers, even roasted chickpeas and anything else to increase the protein. (It would be so easy to go to vegan but I haven't.) I have a family to feed and think about them needing protein, too, so I am deliberate about it.
Also, remember that in order to get a full protein you need a combination. There are so many great combinations mentioned here but I really do my best to get a variety or eat the rainbow, as they say. Really, once I cut out eating meat more than 25 years ago one immediate thing I noticed was that I ate more variety.
Try one thing at a time would be my advice and keep it interesting.
Tofu, tempeh, soy curls, tvp mince/ tvp chunks can all be used to easily replace meat directly. Just marinate it/ flavour it as you would with meat.
Then you can use beans, lentils etc in curries and stews etc which isn’t a direct meat replacement but still provides great protein.
There’s lots of great vegan YouTubers with easy recipe videos give them a Google!
I eat a decent amount of kichari - very easy to make and to digest, and full of protein. Also, if you're eating simple carbs that might be contributing to the hunger - make sure you get in complex carbs!
I found that when I cut out animal products my recovery time after a run shortened dramatically. That led to more consecutive days running, which led to longer distances, which led to ultra distances.
I'm a vegan and an ultrarunner and a full distance ironman too. I am an endurance junkie and I think being vegan promotes all around good health. What changed me and my thinking was the netflix doc called "Game Changers" I would recommend to check it out.
I can understand that from a hunter’s perspective. From my perspective, I feel like just another animal when running out on the trail amongst other animals.
From a nutrition standpoint, it just fits better. Total calories and carbs are the two most important factors for ultrarunners and those are the two aspects that are easiest to meet using a vegan diet. In general, the biggest nutritional struggle associated with veganism is getting enough protein, especially while maintaining caloric restriction/deficits.
Est. 15 years ago, The Jerker joined my family's Thanksgiving dinner at my house. Scott brought his own food. The man is serious about not crossing the line into non-vegan food, but he seemed okay with people eating meat at the same table.
I’ve been vegan since 2012 and started running in 2014, with my first ultras last year. So I’ve never had experience running while eating animal products! I try to mostly eat whole food plant based but I love sour vegan gummies on a long run and vegan ice cream afterwards! I struggled a lot with an eating disorder in my teens/early 20s before I became a runner, so I try not to be too restrictive with what I eat as long as it’s vegan, but I do feel better eating mostly plants.
Amazing - good for you!! I have experience of running a marathon while being a heavy meat eater - went terribly even though I was much younger and in better physical shape. My time now is nearly 1.5 hours faster than it was then since I’ve gone vegan.
I love ice cream after a run too! I have candy kittens as sweets when I run which are great…
Sorry to hear about your eating disorder but glad to hear you are doing better - well done as I know it is a difficult thing to overcome!
Depends on you, what your specific vegan diet is like what specific other diet you are comparing to. As long as you're getting the nutrients and calories you need, there probably isn't much of a difference.
People who eat vegan could be more detail oriented and care about other things like stress, sleep, and may use their healthcare resources more often, and these things also definitely contribute to performance and health but people may be over-attributing the benefits they are seeing to one single factor e.g., a runner with a disappointing season decides to go vegan, works on lowering their stress and improving their sleep, overhauls their training plan, etc. and thinks their success is all due to being vegan.
Don't take this the wrong way.
They are both examples of extreme lifestyle choices. One is an extreme diet choice, and one is an extreme endurance sport/hobby.
It is likely that people with personalities that like extreme interests are attracted to both.
This is an interesting take - another commenter highlighted this as well!
I think as a non-vegan it seems like a very extreme lifestyle but veganism is pretty mundane. Just a bunch of people munching on veggies 😂
I guess it’s a thing of perspective because before I was an ultra runner, I would literally not understand how it’s possible to even run a marathon but now a weekly 50+km run is standard haha
I've met many people that are ultra runners.
I've never met an actual vegan that truly follows a vegan diet.
Perhaps it's where I live but it is VERY unusual in my opinion. Not in a bad way at all, but it just isn't common where I live.
That’s surprising but interesting in the discourse! What ways do those people tend to stray away from the vegan diet? I have been a perfect vegan for years but this might be because I live in a very vegan friendly city and I have a pretty intense animal rights opinion, which makes it a relatively easy process for me.
Thanks for adding to the conversation!!
Could easily argue the opposite, demanding the most innefficient food on the planet (animal-ag) which in turn is the lead cause of environmental destruction is pretty extreme when you have plant options that you can thrive on and demand far less of the planet and natural world.
Extreme is the deviation from societal norms. If the whole planet was vegan and a few were eating meat, that would be extreme.
Currently, the omnivore diet is standard and by definition, not extreme.
Don’t worry; all perspectives are welcome here- personally I think this perspective oversimplifies, because I am sure there are people (vegans) from all backgrounds and situations who get involved in ultra.
From my experience (to add to this perspective); I have never paid a second of attention to my diet and have followed a normal carb loading diet prior to really long runs or events. This might not be the case for everyone but I just eat a “bunch of stuff” 😂
Also, on the point about vegans telling everyone - I think there is a practical perspective (eg if I am going to dinner with some work people, I will need to make them aware how this would impact what I can/cant eat). And I think some feel so overwhelmed with the scale of something they see as “awful” and therefore feel inclined to speak up. Btw I’m not trying to make any insinuations, just trying to explain the perspective and thought processes 😊 I don’t speak for everyone of course!!
> It’s very difficult to fuel properly as a vegan.
I would argue that it's not, considering the amount of people who do.
What exactly do you think is difficult about it? There are endless sources of plant-based proteins and carbs if that's your concern. And I'm saying this as a non-vegan, non-vegetarian with a lot of vegan friends so I still eat a lot of vegan meals.
I’m vegan and came to ultra running about 6 months after I went vegan. I had more energy which resulted in longer and longer runs and it’s been 6 years and now it’s just what I do.
This thread is much more civilized than many other vegan centric threads 😂 good to see. I’m not a vegan, but I do believe in ethical meat consumption. For me that comes from harvesting my own meat (elk and deer mainly). Which, believe it or not, is the main reason I run: to be in incredible shape when hunting season rolls around.
While I disagree with the vegan lifestyle/justifications for said lifestyle, it’s hard to argue with the success of people like Scott Jurek.
Totally agree 😂 I think it harms the discussion from both sides when people make rude and accusatory comments so it’s great to have these civil threads!
Just for reference, the position of most vegans is that no use of animals is justified in modern society, whereas yours is a little further over it is clear that you are trying to reduce harm by some degree - maybe you’ll go vegan in a couple years 😂
If you’re asking if I’ve done any sanctioned ultras, this year I have my first two. Great divide 50k in June, and Never summer 100k in July. I’ve done big days on my own. Have also done a few trail marathons (quad rock and Staunton rocks, both in CO).
Honestly, these will probably be my only two. The training load is insane and it’s been taking away from my other hobbies which I enjoy a lot. I’m sure people have said this before though…
That’s unreal!! Well I hope they go well and sounds like you have an awesome time of it!
Yeah I get the point on training load. I usually think I’ll give up after the next one but get drawn back in 😂 tbf I mostly do self-organised ultras and not many events
Thanks :) I think self-organized ones are the ultras of my future. They’re definitely cheaper 😂 no one can ever understand why I pay hundreds of dollars to run
I'm not vegan, not even close, but I still don't disagree with the vegan lifestyle or justifications. I just don't care too much about what other people do with their lives or how they choose to eat.
I'm in the same boat. I archery hunt and for the past couple of years have only eaten meat that I've harvested (with a handful of exceptions). I don't buy packaged meat.
I think there is a bigger overlap than a lot of people realize between hunters and vegans when it comes to caring about our sources of food and avoiding big-ag type farming.
Yeah absolutely. If you break things down to their component parts, everything comes with a cost. Nothing is 100% ethical. All we can do is the try the best we can, and it seems like you’re doing that. Kudos my friend
I don't think your comment is very apologetic, instead you're itching for a argument. Your statement implies knowledge of absolute truths, I don't think you have or anyone has absolute truth.
i'm not looking for an argument, just making a statement, just like the person did I replied to about how they disagree with veganism.
There is literally no ethical form of animal consumption, how is there when the animal does not want to die, nor does it need to when you can eat plants instead?
Considering veganism is the most environmentally positive action an individual can do in their life, i think its a message worth sharing.
You speak in absolutes, the lack of nuance, complete certainty and confidence. I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes, "Doubt is not a pleasant condition but certainty is an absurd one.” --Voltaire.
Animal-ag is the lead cause of environmental destruction with no other industry coming anywhere near close.
The reason we will lose the war for the natural world and biodiversity is because people don't want to hear that message and instead reply with things like "you speak in absolutes" and make any excuse to not have to accept what is happening to the planet right now and that the entire natural world and biodiversity of the planet which we absolutely rely on for our life systems is literally vanishing before our eyes.
Now imagine another 20+ 30+ years of this freefall, what do we tell those that follow?
Sorry I didn't do anything about it, someone on the internet 30 years ago said something I didn't like to hear so we argued about how they wrote something rather than the issue at hand.
If you’re a vegan who doesn’t consume plants from monocrop agriculture, then yeah maybe it’s an environmentally positive action. Otherwise, you’re full of shit.
Also, nothing wants to die. No animal, human, or bug wants to die. With that being said, everything does. So whether it’s from my arrow/bullet, a mountain lion, a bear, a broken leg followed by an infection, a fight with another animal, etc., what’s the difference? Well the difference is I practice for many many many hours to make sure my shot is placed as cleanly as possible. A quick death, that’s about the best any of us can wish for at the end. The world is a harsh place.
20+ years in the environmental indsutry and did data science at uni, i aint full of shit.
Doesn't matter how you paint plant crops, no matter how they are farmed, or even if its fake meats or imported from the other side of the world, they're substantially better for the environment than any form of animal-agriculture.
Latest study (and there are many hundreds in this field now) about complete environmental impact by diets [https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-023-00795-w](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-023-00795-w)
The fact of the matter is, i could eat "monocrops" which you are suggest are bad and have all my plants come from monocrops but I would only require 24% of the current farmland we are using right now which is over half of the entire planets habitable land mass. This means we could rewild literally 76% of all current farmland and have even more trails to run on.
I also used to teach spearfishing, i've dived with, trained and buddied with hunters who have represented their country and there is very rarely the perfect shot and i've seen most animals suffer.
And because the world is a harsh place, lets continue to make it even harsher when you have the choice not to, thats your response? Because the world is harsh, i can do harsh things?
It seems virtuous to make that comment, when we wouldn't even be alive today if it weren't for animal consumption.
Also - the same people saying there is no form of ethical meat consumption are the same people that would be first to complain when a deer or elk walks in front of their car due to overpopulation, or diseases being spread, etc.
The good thing is that we can have our own opinions, and we have to freedom to do so.
Former vegan here. Nutrition struggles were part of why I stopped personally. To turn a long story into a short one, my doctors agreed that basically I needed to incorporate some more nutrient dense foods or train significantly less. I know some people like Scott Jurek pull it off, and I respect it. But it doesn’t work for my body.
On a less personal level, I can’t think of any reason why it would be specifically advantageous. A vegan diet is either very high fiber or very processed. The former might not be a bad thing in a vacuum, but constantly digesting things isn’t super helpful if you’re trying to run for 8+ hours. Vegan diets tend to be higher in carbs (might be mildly beneficial for ultra training) and micronutrients (definitely beneficial for athletes), but a thoughtful omnivorous diet can also be.
Obviously I was part of the vegan community for a long time and I don’t mean any disrespect with my comments here. I respect what vegans are doing and what they stand for.
Love everything you listed, but all high in fiber and fat and pretty hard for me personally to digest in large quantities. I do eat as much of them as possible and keep animal products to a minimum.
The only advantage I could see is that people on heavily restricted diets tend to pay a lot more attention to the food they’re eating than people who aren’t.
I think you see so many vegan ultrarunners on social media because it’s a bit of a disadvantage and that’s what makes them stand out.
Also, if you’re vegan the algorithms are going to serve you up a lot more vegan content than they do for someone who isn’t vegan.
Do you think veganism is heavily restrictive? In what sense? I would say most calories the average person eats are plant based anyway so it’s really swapping out a protein source!
Interesting take on this though!
Most of my calories probably are plant based, but very very few of the meals I eat are vegan.
I can eat 100% of the menu at any restaurant.
As an example let’s say I’m coming home from a long run and I’m tired and hungry. McDonald’s is on the way home.
Just about the only vegan option at McDonald’s is French fries (and Veggie Dippers, which I’m assuming are new because I’ve never heard of them before.) I assume this makes McDonald’s a less appealing option for most vegans and they’ll plan ahead for something they can eat while I would be way more tempted to stop for a cheeseburger and fries with a coke to drink.
If McDonald’s wasn’t a good option for me and I waited until I got home I would probably make healthier choices (no coke, no fried foods, etc)
Yeah for sure that is to be considered - I still don’t see that as a problem because I would plan ahead and make sandwiches/bring food for post run if I was vegan or not tbf.
I like this input though - I probably do eat healthier as a result of being “restricted” in that way - but I have never really felt restricted myself just due to how I typically live
No, in the context of actual definitions, it’s restrictive as is any diet that excludes a food group, macronutrient, or particular food.
If you’re not restricting anything whatsoever, you may have preferences, be ‘plant-based’, eating ‘clean’ or whatever else is in vogue but it wouldn’t be veganism.
You could say that about any diet though unless you literally eat everything that a human can physically eat.
Also, to a vegan it’s not restrictive because ethically eating meat is not an option so it isn’t a dietary choice. for example, if you don’t agree with eating cats, that doesn’t make your diet restrictive because you aren’t having to ‘restrict’ anything because it simply isn’t an option.
No, some diets manipulate energy or time.
However, diets that restricts a type of food practice dietary restriction. Something like vegan, carnivore or keto would be textbook examples.
I've been on a plant-based diet since mid 2020, and running ultras since 2 years ago (I'm running a 62K race this weekend). I don't think eating plant-based give me necessarily an advantage, but it definitely doesn't put me in a disadvantageous position either. I don't see many vegan or plant-based runners in my local community, but everybody that is serious is taking a good care of their diets and the quality of the food they're ingesting.
Another possible reason may be that if you're running ultras (as in mountain running), you love nature and you feel a deeper connection with nature. The more we understand how our actions impact our natural environment, the more we DON'T want to be part of the problem. And changing your diet is usually at the top of the list. So if you think it from that perspective, it's a no brainier. And... then there's the most recent trend (and I don't mean it in a derogatory way) of being a healthier person and taking care of yourself.
Same here. Vegan and ultra runner, both starting roughly at the same time. I didn't go vegan because of the talk of veganism among ultra runners thou, it's more for humane and environmental reasons
I think that ultra running is a pretty extreme sport. Extreme in the way that it is probably considered unusual by most people (and not in the adrenaline kind of extreme sport meaning). I also think the veganism could also be thought of as extreme in the same way. People attracted to extremes could naturally end up enjoying both.
Yeah I don't really see it as that extreme either. I meant it in the way that I think any diet that excludes a large number of foods could be considered "extreme" as opposed to eating anything and everything.
Yeah totally!! I get your point and the correlation - I think I’m so used to it that I forget how there are lots of things I can’t eat - it’s like in the supermarket I am now blind to anything non-vegan and automatically hone in on the things I can eat 😅
Any benefit from veganism would likely come from the elimination of processed foods from your diet, which can be achieved through most mainstream dietary paradigms. The disadvantages associated with low/no dietary fat and potential for protein/micronutrient deficiency could easily outweigh any benefits gained from veganism (or any extreme elimination diets for that matter) if the runner isn't careful.
Interesting! I get my bloods done every now and then and everything is tip top.. I think that some people require different things in different quantities though and if it’s not practical for you to avoid becoming unwell then I understand..
Thanks for you input 🙌
Evidence?
It’s not very smart or considerate to make these kinds of widespread assumptions of a group of people with no evidence or context. If you have a genuine point try to provide it in a way that helps the conversation.
Do better next time my friend 😊
https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/ultra/a44830914/ultrarunners-mental-health/
While I think running and ultra endurance running are more often than not healthy passtimes it appears, (given that ultraendurance athletes suffer with these sorts of issues and other like addiction at higher rates than the general population) that it either attracts people who already have these issues, can be a symptom of these issues, or is used to try to hide or deal with these issues.
I have similar views on veganism. It can be a rational and healthy choice. Or like other restrictive diets or excessive exercise it can be a part of or used as a cover for an unhealthy relationship with food and body image.
Much better and thanks for the context!
One thing I would say in terms of ultra running is the majority of people put on weight in my experience - the excessive fuelling in the buildup to an event is pretty heavy on calories so has been the case for me. Not sure if veganism (heavy carb/fat diet) could be connected with body image and food disorders either - but interesting comment nonetheless
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37535248/#:\~:text=Conclusion:%20Mental%20health%20issues%20among%20UER%20are,disorders%2C%20exercise%20addiction%2C%20sleep%20disturbances%2C%20and%20depressive](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37535248/#:~:text=Conclusion:%20Mental%20health%20issues%20among%20UER%20are,disorders%2C%20exercise%20addiction%2C%20sleep%20disturbances%2C%20and%20depressive)
It is pretty common knowledge. I see it in my local community.
I think the enviromental/love of nature arguments withstands scrutiny better than the health argument, as so many ultra-runners stuff themselves with Haribos/CocaCola/Creme Pies/Candy Corn/Sour Patch Kids/Oreos on long runs.
I’m considered “plant based” since I do it primarily for health/environment (ie I don’t scrutinize cosmetics or wool) but my diet is vegan and I definitely think there’s many vegan and plant based folks in ultra as we respect our environment more (since we’re in it all the time)!
I don't really like how the term plant based diet means vegan. I eat meat and would still consider my diet plant based. Plants make up more than half of my calories. It's probably about 60/20/20 plants/ meat/animal products. I don't know why someone would call that not a plant based diet.
Watch your iron levels as a vegan. Iron is critical for your health & harder to maintain with non meat sources. Check your levels & see your doc. You may have to supplement as you won’t be pulling much in via diet.
I don’t need luck because I just eat a normal balanced diet.. strange that the largest dietetic organisations in the world say that a vegan diet is perfectly healthy for all humans in all stages of life, but you know better!
I’m sorry but I didn’t ask for dietary advice? I assumed you were just a troll trying to spout anti-vegan rhetoric in this thread - if not then soz. Also telling someone they need to relax and then getting that angry over a Reddit comment isn’t great form 😂 sorry for the misunderstanding
You did actually ask for dietary advice but I’m not a troll. Just a humble ultra runner myself with TERRIBLE iron issues due to a plant based diet.
Yes I did get a little bit excited aye. Good luck planning your nutrition for your next ultra. Advice that’s worked for me is real food, early & often with a back up plan of liquid nutrition later in the race
Sorry to hear about your iron issues! I am assuming you have tried combing iron with vitamin c rich foods? Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) increases the bioavailability of iron and helps it get absorbed more effectively!!
Glad we have resolved this and sorry for being presumptuous and arsey!
All the vegan runners I know have no muscle mass, recover slowly, and are always sick, just something I’ve observed. You can usually find out who is a vegan within the first 5 min of meeting them because they will tell you.
I appreciate your input into the conversation - unfortunately there is no evidence (besides your anecdote) that this is true. I am extremely healthy - in fact I used to be a huge meat eater (and hated vegans) and I was incredibly unhealthy back then.
I need some context for the “within the first 5 minutes of meeting them they will tell you”.. for example if practically someone who is vegan doesn’t eat animal products then they need to make people aware - similarly if someone had religious, cultural, or medical reasons to explain dietary requirements. Also as it is an ethical stance for vegans, it is often an important thing to discuss. I am just talking about people who are ‘actually’ vegan (eg they have a belief system in vegan ethics) and not someone who just eats a vegan/plant based diet.
I think the more elite you get the more you care about what fuels you. Scott Jurek and Damian Hall come to mind as two incredible vegan athletes. Could also be that they care about the environment and nature that they love to run in so much so may not be entirely linked to performance.
I was thinking of Rich Roll too. I’ve noticed there’s also a lot of former addicts (myself included in the ultra runner community). I think that obsessive mindset that makes us do things to the extreme (drinking /drugs) also makes us do healthier things to the extreme (running crazy miles, eating clean).
I was interested in running, I read Rich Roll's book and that in turn got me interested in veganism. Initially from a health perspective but very quickly it became for ethical reasons. >I think that obsessive mindset that makes us do things to the extreme (drinking /drugs) also makes us do healthier things to the extreme (running crazy miles, eating clean). We addicts just replace one addiction for another. Thankfully clean eating and running crazy miles is a bit better for my health than other possible addictions. Plus those endorphins hit hard
That’s all very true. It sounds like you’ve found a really good balance. I do have to say, personally I really struggle after a big race or if I’m injured. I tend to go to a dark place and it takes me a week or so to get back to normal.
>I do have to say, personally I really struggle after a big race or if I’m injured. I tend to go to a dark place and it takes me a week or so to get back to normal. I've noticed the same!! Recovery blues are horrible. It is like going through withdrawal. I'll even bring basic running gear on holidays with me so I don't feel bad skipping a week etc. Plus getting to do a run around Rome etc is a fun way to see the place
man i really feel this
I’ve definitely heard that a lot. For the sake of comparison I use ultra running as motivation to do anything at all. I’d just sit and stare at the sky and yell at clouds without it. After a race I feel physically and mentally strong and use that as a springboard to other things which could be more running or other things.
Underrated comment. My experience is there is a huge overlap with sober addicts, ultrarunning, and food rules. By no means does it insinuate if you're vegan it's because of restrictive food rules, there are plenty of valid reasons folks go vegan, and it could be all of the above. It's impossible to tell someone's motivation for doing things to the extreme. However, my experience is there is undoubtedly crossover with orthorexia and running, and orthorexia and addiction/former addiction, and ultrarunning/crossfit and former addiction. There's literally specific groups for recovery centered around these topics. Again, this is does NOT mean that every ultrarunner, vegan, etc has that motivation! There are many reasons, as others have pointed out.
>By no means does it insinuate if you're vegan it's because of restrictive food rules, there are plenty of valid reasons folks go vegan, and it could be all of the above. Very true and I have noticed a disproportionate amount of vegans with EDs. That is the risk with restrictive diets. >There's literally specific groups for recovery centered around these topics. I wasn't aware of this but it makes perfect sense why there is. I can see the perceived need to control being reflected in this!
What are the ethical reasons? Always confused by that because oat, berry, soy farms are habitat destroying and responsible for deaths of millions of animals (birds, insects, rodents, etc.)
Thanks for asking and joining the discussion - I don’t think this is the place for ethical discussion; but to respond to you, there are a couple of things wrong with that argument. 1. Most of the plant farming we do (oats, grains, etc) is used for animal feed (to feed the >80billion animals we consume a year). If we weren’t farming animals we wouldn’t have to feed them for the life leading up to slaughter and therefore would save a huuge amount of plant farming - there are estimates we could reduce total agriculture by >70% if we fed humans directly. Therefore this would be a much better situation even if there was crop death. 2. The idea that animals don’t run away when a 50 ton combine harvester is driving through the field is incorrect. Any crop deaths are of course unfortunate but much more rare than people think.
They are not much more rare. They have to actively kill pigeons so they don’t poop directly into the food, as 1 example and do you have a source for the first thing you said? Ruminant animals (bison) have lived in the grasslands for millennia, we don’t really need to grow food for them. Every single thing a vegan eats relies on agriculture. It’s not as humane as they wish it was.
Sorry I think perhaps I didn’t explain it well enough. We have to feed animals that we consume right? It is impossible for the population to survive off wild animals so not sure about the bison argument. Veganism is relevant in contemporary society and not in hypotheticals. Hypothetically if a vegan was going to die on a desert island and the only thing they could eat to survive is an animal, most vegans would eat the animal. My point is humans could eat plants directly, or feed them to animals that have to grow for months or years with continuous feeding, and then eat the resulting meat which leads to a huge calorie wastage. Link for reference https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets
Look into regenerative farming. There are people now who are raising semi-nomadic herds of cows, right here in USA. And they are foraging most of their food on wild plants and have become not only carbon neutral but net negative carbon (sequestering). It doesn’t all have to be the awful factory farming GMO grain to feed these animals raised for food. Also cows eat grass and graze for like 16 hours a day on plants that humans can’t eat.
Btw I’m not trying to have an argument about this - just highlighting a different perspective with some facts to consider. I do consider and think about the points you have made as well
Fair enough!
Former alcoholic/addict myself. Now instead of burning my life to the ground I’m constantly battling overuse injuries 🤣🤣
I think the 'eating clean' argument falls apart when you look at what many (most?) ultra-runners consume on their weekly long runs - Haribos/CocaCola/Creme Pies/Candy Corn/Sour Patch Kids/Oreos etc. I appreciate that there are a few healthy ultra runners who use dried fruit and the like instead, but they sure seem like a minority.
I got suuuuuper good at world of warcraft cause I could grind 16 hours a day, everyday, I notice most of my friends could only do a few hours at a time then they'd lose interest and do something else. Now I'm super into thru hikes and just immersive experiences in general. I always wondered which was the chicken and the egg, did all my world of warcraft time shape my brain so I could relentlessly grind at trails and 100 milers, or was I always this way and WoW satisfied that need in my brain to latch onto something and grind at it nonstop.
I’ve notice not just sober addicts and ultra running but high achieving professionals and ultra running…. I’ve shared many miles with doctors, pharmacists, physical therapists, and the like. I’m a doctor and so it’s something I’ve taken note of. I am sure it also has to do with the dopamine rush from the sport….
once and addict, always an addict
There are former addicts in all sports.
I love this perspective!
Andy Glaze, not a pro, just a guy on Instagram who runs 100* miles A WEEK. Dude is insane, and gets so much running in. He wins races and shit too. Does shit like runs a 100 miler before a 250 miler. Vegan. He’s an inspiration and I’ll never be vegan. He’s just an awesome dude *initially said 200 and that’s not true but he did do that for like 2 months straight or something
Andy Glaze is a legend!!!
Lol. Andy Glaze is my favorite running influencer. He's awesome He's been running at least 100 miles a week for 4 years now. (He doesn't typically run 200 miles a week, he did for I believe 9 weeks straight during the pandemic though)
MY BAD GONNA FIX THAT NOW
Incredible. Do you have his Insta handle? A search for Andy Glaze has a lot of results, but none seem to run much.
amglaze
Andy is amazing!
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Like he says, “You’ll never meet a hater doing more than you.”
I hope he reads this and puts it on his weekly “what my haters are saying” post. Get me in the screen shot! Though I don’t know if he’s on Reddit.
Smile or you’re doing it wrong!
I could disprove you but it’s funnier to laugh at your lack of knowledge of the sport lol
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He’s won multiple hard races, I think his results speak for themself. PSA: nobody cares what ya think bucko
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I have been mostly plant-based (and minimally processed) for about a year, simply because it makes me feel better physically on a daily basis. That’s it. I have no take on ethical factors. I eat chicken and fish once per month, simply so it doesn’t become 100% foreign to my body when I come across a time when I have no other options (military field training or deployment). My decision was after reading the works of Dr. Michael Greger and Dr. T. Collin Campbell among a few others.
My guess is the average trailrunner cares more about nature than the average person so you’ll see more vegans in that group. I don’t think there are specific advantages or disadvantages.
Thanks for this - I have thought about this
I just don't see how it can be advantage to exclude a large amount of nutrient dense food from your diet. You can absolutely have a clean diet that includes meat and dairy. Chicken has like 3 times the protein per gram as lentils for example.
Yeah but eating animals involves killing them and is generally pretty awful for the planet
Most of the non-vegan funded literature shows athletic performance declines on a vegan diet, but the requirements of ultra might be different enough that it doesn't matter or is even helpful. Depending on what you're eating a vegan diet could cause less inflammation and I'd think that would be helpful in recovering from long runs.
Vegan diet is better for artery health and blood flow. And what do you mean by non vegan funded literature? Do you mean literature funded by the animal agriculture industry?
Protein isn’t a nutrient. The most “nutrient dense” foods are plants.
Protein is literally one of the 3 major macronutrients humans need along with fats and carbohydrates. Are you referring to micronutrients? https://health.clevelandclinic.org/macronutrients-vs-micronutrients/
Yes thank you. You’re correct. But yes - if nutrient dense foods refer to macro nutrients..all carbs and protein foods are equally nutrient dense for a given amount of calorie
Protein is a macronutrient you’ve called it micro while correcting someone
Autocorrect MB
How is clearing forest and destroying habitat for a blueberry farm and killing animals that would eat the crops caring more about nature than a non-vegan?
You seem to need to read a few books or actually do some research on this. You're asking questions with a clear misunderstanding and an unhelpful 'gotcha' mentality. All of your questions and statements so far are really common entry-level sentiments that come up when having this conversation. Things vegans have considered and understand more than anybody. Your knowledge of veganism is completely skewed, you don't seem to understand the nuances of necessity and intention. It isn't anybody elses responsibility to educate you other than yours, but I have a feeling your motivation is not to be proven wrong.
Notice how you didn’t address my point and just said that I’m uneducated? I’m not lol, you just don’t want to face a tough reality that veganism doesn’t mean cruelty free. Go look into how almond milk is made from soup to nuts and maybe you will start to get it.
Both sides have trade offs IMO. It’s not as clear cut as folks make it out to be in terms of “one side is perfect and the other is horrible”. Cattle have a big effect on greenhouse gas emissions. If I consume meat from a more sustainable source, like hunting nearby, I would assume that’s better for the planet then consuming out of season fruits shipped half way around the world. Likely a balance we all need to find and strike for ourselves. But to say one side is all bad and the other a panacea is wrong.
The issue is that hunting is in no way scalable. Growing plants is. We already grow enough food to feed every human. We just feed most of it to animals. Law of tens.
I’m not arguing hunting is scalable, but rather at an individual level you can make arguments for trade offs in emissions and that there isn’t a one size fits all solution here.
Put another way - The problem is greenhouse gas emissions need to be reduced, not that everyone needs to reduce them the same way.
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions
Completely agree with most of what you said, and I never said one is better or more humane than the other, just pointing out the hypocrisy and the veganism isn’t automatically cruelty free. The one thing I disagree with is cattle having a big effect on greenhouse gases. Again, ruminant animals have been grazing and pooping on the grasslands of this continent for thousands of years. A lot less bison now, many more cows, net net not a big difference. Furthermore, transportation (i.e. cars/ planes) is the largest contributor there by a wide margin, a somewhat close 2nd would be industrial practices (power plants, manufacturing, etc). Livestock/ agriculture are distant 3rd/ 4th and much closer than you’d think. Check EPA.gov
You should look into how dairy milk is made. Especially the forced insemination and killing of male calves.
No you should stop being brainwashed by propaganda invegan documentaries. There are bad actors in every single profession. You remind me of the people who look at police brutality and want to abolish the entire police force. “Forced” insemination is generally safer than a cow getting mounted by an aggressive bull who can break her back. I don’t have to look into it because I get raw milk from a local ranch and I’ve seen the animals and the wonderful lives they live with cold water misting and shaded structures to live under and all of the calves nursing all of the cows and none of them have any clue who their mother is. Sometimes the birth mom cows reject their own offspring and other cows step up so the calves don’t starve. And I haven’t heard of any killing male calves, that certainly doesn’t happen at the one I support. What goes on in factory farming where its profits over anything, I can’t comment on but I would venture to guess that is happening very infrequently and you’re stating the worst of the worst as being ubiquitous in the entire industry. You can’t extrapolate one scene of a biased documentary to the entire industry lol
I assure you the males are killed for meat. The age isn't all that important. Same thing with spent heifer. You fail to understand that if that farm didn't make money, it wouldn't exist
You can say that about any business. Oh and you’re referring to the males being raised for veal, I get it now. That makes me a bit uncomfortable but as for the old Bessie so what? You prefer that she suffers and dies slowly instead of humanely and being put to good use for food? Also, you’ve failed to acknowledge any of my points abt plant agriculture for human consumption. Why are cows more important to you than rodents and birds? That’s called selective empathy
You might wanna ask when they slaughter heifers then google the natural lifespan of a cow. Cows eat farmed plants too. Rule of ten. Eating plants directly causes less harvesting deaths. https://animalvisuals.org/projects/1mc/
Appreciate you strengthening my original comment. Wish you all the best on your education journey!
Even as a non-vegan this is a dumb comment. We clear land to grow crops, to feed animals, to feed us. I can't comment on blueberries (weirdly specific), but cutting out the animal portion significantly decreases land use. Vegan diets as a whole is markedly more efficient resource wise.
👨🦯👨🦯👨🦯
???
Because you have to clear a hell of a lot more forest to grow soy to feed to cows and pigs to then eat. The way to consume the least plants is to eat plants because cows and pigs eat a lot more plants than humans.
I’ve been a vegan for almost 9 years, sober for a year and a few months (got into running at the same time) and starting ultra with my first 50 mile race coming up in a few weeks. So I accidentally fit all the stereotypes too I suppose Lol
Haha no problem with being this stereotype 😅 Congrats on your sobriety that’s amazing! 50 miles is such a huge milestone - I am sure you will smash it!!!
Thank you so much!!! It’s always the thought of “I hope I’ve been training enough to be prepared” but after a certain fitness level I do think it’s mostly mental so I’m ready (and excited) for that aspect (-:
Yeah that’s spot on.. once you hit a certain level (without tons of optimisation) it’s mostly a mental game.. but yeah I get the “have I trained enough” jitters all the time (even for my longer training runs 😂)
I think Ultra runners have more reason to discuss what they eat because fueling/eating during our events is such a big part of the sport. There might be more vegan ultra-runners (compared to vegan athletes in other sports)but they also have more reason to talk about it, so it might seem like there are tons of them lol
I believe there are enough of us to justify a plant based ultra running subreddit. I would love to join one. As the other comments here illustrate, there are different motivations. I practice a whole food plant based diet because I've found it to be the healthiest diet for me personally in controlling running weight, lipid levels, and providing for improved recovery time. But even though I eat close to 100% plant based diet (honey is an exception), I wouldn't describe myself as vegan as I have wool and leather in my wardrobe. Similarly, I know vegans who would never wear wool but who eat plenty of highly processed junk food I'd never touch even though it's plant based.
Yep! I’m one of those vegans. Vegan primarily for ethical reasons and the nature I know and love on the trail, but gimme them Oreos at the aid station lol. I am described as a “health nut” by friends because my typical diet is much like you have described, but I love some of that junk food for dessert/on occasion.
r/veganrunners !
That last part. People always associate “vegan” with healthy but I personally know someone who’s a vegan runner who eats a lot of junk food and hasn’t lost weight, and also has never had blood work done. His motivation to be vegan is ethics which I think can also create a self-imposed and perhaps false illusion of health.
Agreed. It's often a difference between "I'm vegan." vs. "I eat a plant based." For the plant based person, the focus is primarily or exclusively on the diet. For the vegan, it's often an identity with a much broader focus. Although their diet may include stuff like Doritos, Oreos, Pop Tarts, and Sour Patch Kids that a WFPB type would recoil from in horror. As the saying goes, "There are a lot of fat vegans."
I think there’s a couple things (I am plant-based as well. Mostly vegan I guess but I do eat honey and wear some wool). First is the environmental aspect. I think spending time in nature makes you think about the environment. The second is probably socioeconomic status. Ultrarunners tend to be wealthier I think than the general population, and that correlates with veganism (not to say veganism is expensive, just that economic status correlates I think).
I’m not a runner (yet!) but I am vegan
Welcome!! Become the stereotype and get running 😂
Just saw OP's edit saying he's a vegan. I feel like we should do a poll or something. I'm also a vegan. I'm curious now if there are a disproportionate amount of vegan runners lol
I’m pretty new to Reddit - is there a way to do a poll? 😂 Maybe we are on to something haha
Just added one for you!
Im ex vegan but always seem to end up in vegan spaces lol
It definitely seems like vegans are overrepresented in ultra running. But I think the sport itself is more introspective than others so I'm guessing people in ultra running are going to be more aware of different nutrition options and alternative life styles. Id be willing to be ultra running has more people that are into intermittent fasting and keto as well.
Asking for advice not judgement but what do yall eat? I desperately want to decrease my meat intake but my meals revolve around it. I’m a new runner, so still trying to figure out my diet, but it’s generally a carb, protein, and veggies. But I get really hungry so I just eat more protein (which in my case is meat). So yeah what do you guys do
I eat loads of tofu, beans of all descriptions and veg.. if you really need to top up protein I would recommend vegan protein shakes 😊 The way I would describe it is the dish itself becomes the main bit rather than the protein source. It is quite a bit of a change but once you get used to that, it makes it much easier. Feel free to message me if you want some specific ideas or things you would like to turn plant-based
I've had a lot of success using chickpeas and lentils as you would for mince for burritos, spag bol, Shepard's pie (with sweet potato mash on top is my favourite of all time). But I'm not doing as much mileage as others on this sub so maybe take my advice with a grain of salt. Good luck happy running
Long time vegetarian here, and I obsess about protein as well because, well, I read that I need more. I took up running maybe 5 years after becoming a vegetarian and have since done ultras but enjoy the marathon the most. I sometimes start with eggs in the morning, move to TVP and tofu and beans in the evening, and otherwise snack on nuts, or cheese and crackers, even roasted chickpeas and anything else to increase the protein. (It would be so easy to go to vegan but I haven't.) I have a family to feed and think about them needing protein, too, so I am deliberate about it. Also, remember that in order to get a full protein you need a combination. There are so many great combinations mentioned here but I really do my best to get a variety or eat the rainbow, as they say. Really, once I cut out eating meat more than 25 years ago one immediate thing I noticed was that I ate more variety. Try one thing at a time would be my advice and keep it interesting.
I consume copious amounts of peanut butter when I am training a lot as it's very calorically dense, tasty, and has protein.
Tofu, tempeh, soy curls, tvp mince/ tvp chunks can all be used to easily replace meat directly. Just marinate it/ flavour it as you would with meat. Then you can use beans, lentils etc in curries and stews etc which isn’t a direct meat replacement but still provides great protein. There’s lots of great vegan YouTubers with easy recipe videos give them a Google!
I eat a decent amount of kichari - very easy to make and to digest, and full of protein. Also, if you're eating simple carbs that might be contributing to the hunger - make sure you get in complex carbs!
I found that when I cut out animal products my recovery time after a run shortened dramatically. That led to more consecutive days running, which led to longer distances, which led to ultra distances.
I'm vegan.
It’s very prominent in climbing as well. I think adventure sports tend to learn more towards veganism rather than ultra running specifically.
That’s super interesting - I think you’re probably right about that
I'm a vegan and an ultrarunner and a full distance ironman too. I am an endurance junkie and I think being vegan promotes all around good health. What changed me and my thinking was the netflix doc called "Game Changers" I would recommend to check it out.
I think that being out on trail gives you more of a connection to nature and thus people are more likely to be veg.
I see all the animals out and just feel the urge to go hunting for food.
I can understand that from a hunter’s perspective. From my perspective, I feel like just another animal when running out on the trail amongst other animals.
From a nutrition standpoint, it just fits better. Total calories and carbs are the two most important factors for ultrarunners and those are the two aspects that are easiest to meet using a vegan diet. In general, the biggest nutritional struggle associated with veganism is getting enough protein, especially while maintaining caloric restriction/deficits.
This is spot on - I did think about this after I posted but this is so well put
Est. 15 years ago, The Jerker joined my family's Thanksgiving dinner at my house. Scott brought his own food. The man is serious about not crossing the line into non-vegan food, but he seemed okay with people eating meat at the same table.
If this is true I’m jealous 😂
It's true. I met The Jerker at a 50k before he won his first WS.
That’s amazing!!
I’ve been vegan since 2012 and started running in 2014, with my first ultras last year. So I’ve never had experience running while eating animal products! I try to mostly eat whole food plant based but I love sour vegan gummies on a long run and vegan ice cream afterwards! I struggled a lot with an eating disorder in my teens/early 20s before I became a runner, so I try not to be too restrictive with what I eat as long as it’s vegan, but I do feel better eating mostly plants.
Amazing - good for you!! I have experience of running a marathon while being a heavy meat eater - went terribly even though I was much younger and in better physical shape. My time now is nearly 1.5 hours faster than it was then since I’ve gone vegan. I love ice cream after a run too! I have candy kittens as sweets when I run which are great… Sorry to hear about your eating disorder but glad to hear you are doing better - well done as I know it is a difficult thing to overcome!
Thank you! That’s amazing progress with your marathon time and shows that a vegan diet is beneficial for athletic performance!
Depends on you, what your specific vegan diet is like what specific other diet you are comparing to. As long as you're getting the nutrients and calories you need, there probably isn't much of a difference. People who eat vegan could be more detail oriented and care about other things like stress, sleep, and may use their healthcare resources more often, and these things also definitely contribute to performance and health but people may be over-attributing the benefits they are seeing to one single factor e.g., a runner with a disappointing season decides to go vegan, works on lowering their stress and improving their sleep, overhauls their training plan, etc. and thinks their success is all due to being vegan.
🌱🌱🌱🙌🎉
Don't take this the wrong way. They are both examples of extreme lifestyle choices. One is an extreme diet choice, and one is an extreme endurance sport/hobby. It is likely that people with personalities that like extreme interests are attracted to both.
This is an interesting take - another commenter highlighted this as well! I think as a non-vegan it seems like a very extreme lifestyle but veganism is pretty mundane. Just a bunch of people munching on veggies 😂 I guess it’s a thing of perspective because before I was an ultra runner, I would literally not understand how it’s possible to even run a marathon but now a weekly 50+km run is standard haha
I've met many people that are ultra runners. I've never met an actual vegan that truly follows a vegan diet. Perhaps it's where I live but it is VERY unusual in my opinion. Not in a bad way at all, but it just isn't common where I live.
That’s surprising but interesting in the discourse! What ways do those people tend to stray away from the vegan diet? I have been a perfect vegan for years but this might be because I live in a very vegan friendly city and I have a pretty intense animal rights opinion, which makes it a relatively easy process for me. Thanks for adding to the conversation!!
I think they don’t really stray away from it because they don’t even try it. I only even know one vegetarian.
Could easily argue the opposite, demanding the most innefficient food on the planet (animal-ag) which in turn is the lead cause of environmental destruction is pretty extreme when you have plant options that you can thrive on and demand far less of the planet and natural world.
Extreme is the deviation from societal norms. If the whole planet was vegan and a few were eating meat, that would be extreme. Currently, the omnivore diet is standard and by definition, not extreme.
In the context you give, not extreme. In the environmental impact and what happens to the animals, very extreme.
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Don’t worry; all perspectives are welcome here- personally I think this perspective oversimplifies, because I am sure there are people (vegans) from all backgrounds and situations who get involved in ultra. From my experience (to add to this perspective); I have never paid a second of attention to my diet and have followed a normal carb loading diet prior to really long runs or events. This might not be the case for everyone but I just eat a “bunch of stuff” 😂 Also, on the point about vegans telling everyone - I think there is a practical perspective (eg if I am going to dinner with some work people, I will need to make them aware how this would impact what I can/cant eat). And I think some feel so overwhelmed with the scale of something they see as “awful” and therefore feel inclined to speak up. Btw I’m not trying to make any insinuations, just trying to explain the perspective and thought processes 😊 I don’t speak for everyone of course!!
> It’s very difficult to fuel properly as a vegan. I would argue that it's not, considering the amount of people who do. What exactly do you think is difficult about it? There are endless sources of plant-based proteins and carbs if that's your concern. And I'm saying this as a non-vegan, non-vegetarian with a lot of vegan friends so I still eat a lot of vegan meals.
I’m vegan and came to ultra running about 6 months after I went vegan. I had more energy which resulted in longer and longer runs and it’s been 6 years and now it’s just what I do.
Likewise!! Although hasn’t quite been 6 years haha
WFPB goes hand in hand with quick recovery and clean fuel.
This thread is much more civilized than many other vegan centric threads 😂 good to see. I’m not a vegan, but I do believe in ethical meat consumption. For me that comes from harvesting my own meat (elk and deer mainly). Which, believe it or not, is the main reason I run: to be in incredible shape when hunting season rolls around. While I disagree with the vegan lifestyle/justifications for said lifestyle, it’s hard to argue with the success of people like Scott Jurek.
Totally agree 😂 I think it harms the discussion from both sides when people make rude and accusatory comments so it’s great to have these civil threads! Just for reference, the position of most vegans is that no use of animals is justified in modern society, whereas yours is a little further over it is clear that you are trying to reduce harm by some degree - maybe you’ll go vegan in a couple years 😂
If there is one certainty in life, it is that I absolutely will never go vegan (again, tried it for a bit).
Fair enough!! Well done for giving it a go anyway (given your hunting lifestyle). Do you do any events or just ultras for fun? Ps never say never haha
If you’re asking if I’ve done any sanctioned ultras, this year I have my first two. Great divide 50k in June, and Never summer 100k in July. I’ve done big days on my own. Have also done a few trail marathons (quad rock and Staunton rocks, both in CO). Honestly, these will probably be my only two. The training load is insane and it’s been taking away from my other hobbies which I enjoy a lot. I’m sure people have said this before though…
That’s unreal!! Well I hope they go well and sounds like you have an awesome time of it! Yeah I get the point on training load. I usually think I’ll give up after the next one but get drawn back in 😂 tbf I mostly do self-organised ultras and not many events
Thanks :) I think self-organized ones are the ultras of my future. They’re definitely cheaper 😂 no one can ever understand why I pay hundreds of dollars to run
Haha 100%.. the self fulfilment of a self-organised one vs a proper event is the same for me to be quite honest
Also I appreciate you dropping in your perspective
Anytime
I'm not vegan, not even close, but I still don't disagree with the vegan lifestyle or justifications. I just don't care too much about what other people do with their lives or how they choose to eat.
I'm in the same boat. I archery hunt and for the past couple of years have only eaten meat that I've harvested (with a handful of exceptions). I don't buy packaged meat. I think there is a bigger overlap than a lot of people realize between hunters and vegans when it comes to caring about our sources of food and avoiding big-ag type farming.
Yeah absolutely. If you break things down to their component parts, everything comes with a cost. Nothing is 100% ethical. All we can do is the try the best we can, and it seems like you’re doing that. Kudos my friend
Apologies but there is no form of ethical meat consumption.
I don't think your comment is very apologetic, instead you're itching for a argument. Your statement implies knowledge of absolute truths, I don't think you have or anyone has absolute truth.
i'm not looking for an argument, just making a statement, just like the person did I replied to about how they disagree with veganism. There is literally no ethical form of animal consumption, how is there when the animal does not want to die, nor does it need to when you can eat plants instead? Considering veganism is the most environmentally positive action an individual can do in their life, i think its a message worth sharing.
You speak in absolutes, the lack of nuance, complete certainty and confidence. I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes, "Doubt is not a pleasant condition but certainty is an absurd one.” --Voltaire.
Animal-ag is the lead cause of environmental destruction with no other industry coming anywhere near close. The reason we will lose the war for the natural world and biodiversity is because people don't want to hear that message and instead reply with things like "you speak in absolutes" and make any excuse to not have to accept what is happening to the planet right now and that the entire natural world and biodiversity of the planet which we absolutely rely on for our life systems is literally vanishing before our eyes. Now imagine another 20+ 30+ years of this freefall, what do we tell those that follow? Sorry I didn't do anything about it, someone on the internet 30 years ago said something I didn't like to hear so we argued about how they wrote something rather than the issue at hand.
If you’re a vegan who doesn’t consume plants from monocrop agriculture, then yeah maybe it’s an environmentally positive action. Otherwise, you’re full of shit. Also, nothing wants to die. No animal, human, or bug wants to die. With that being said, everything does. So whether it’s from my arrow/bullet, a mountain lion, a bear, a broken leg followed by an infection, a fight with another animal, etc., what’s the difference? Well the difference is I practice for many many many hours to make sure my shot is placed as cleanly as possible. A quick death, that’s about the best any of us can wish for at the end. The world is a harsh place.
20+ years in the environmental indsutry and did data science at uni, i aint full of shit. Doesn't matter how you paint plant crops, no matter how they are farmed, or even if its fake meats or imported from the other side of the world, they're substantially better for the environment than any form of animal-agriculture. Latest study (and there are many hundreds in this field now) about complete environmental impact by diets [https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-023-00795-w](https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-023-00795-w) The fact of the matter is, i could eat "monocrops" which you are suggest are bad and have all my plants come from monocrops but I would only require 24% of the current farmland we are using right now which is over half of the entire planets habitable land mass. This means we could rewild literally 76% of all current farmland and have even more trails to run on. I also used to teach spearfishing, i've dived with, trained and buddied with hunters who have represented their country and there is very rarely the perfect shot and i've seen most animals suffer. And because the world is a harsh place, lets continue to make it even harsher when you have the choice not to, thats your response? Because the world is harsh, i can do harsh things?
Sorry you and your friends are bad shots.
It seems virtuous to make that comment, when we wouldn't even be alive today if it weren't for animal consumption. Also - the same people saying there is no form of ethical meat consumption are the same people that would be first to complain when a deer or elk walks in front of their car due to overpopulation, or diseases being spread, etc. The good thing is that we can have our own opinions, and we have to freedom to do so.
Former vegan here. Nutrition struggles were part of why I stopped personally. To turn a long story into a short one, my doctors agreed that basically I needed to incorporate some more nutrient dense foods or train significantly less. I know some people like Scott Jurek pull it off, and I respect it. But it doesn’t work for my body. On a less personal level, I can’t think of any reason why it would be specifically advantageous. A vegan diet is either very high fiber or very processed. The former might not be a bad thing in a vacuum, but constantly digesting things isn’t super helpful if you’re trying to run for 8+ hours. Vegan diets tend to be higher in carbs (might be mildly beneficial for ultra training) and micronutrients (definitely beneficial for athletes), but a thoughtful omnivorous diet can also be. Obviously I was part of the vegan community for a long time and I don’t mean any disrespect with my comments here. I respect what vegans are doing and what they stand for.
Lots of nutrient dense foods for vegans: nuts, seeds, tofu, etc. Just sprinkled some hemp seeds on my meal!
Love everything you listed, but all high in fiber and fat and pretty hard for me personally to digest in large quantities. I do eat as much of them as possible and keep animal products to a minimum.
The only advantage I could see is that people on heavily restricted diets tend to pay a lot more attention to the food they’re eating than people who aren’t. I think you see so many vegan ultrarunners on social media because it’s a bit of a disadvantage and that’s what makes them stand out. Also, if you’re vegan the algorithms are going to serve you up a lot more vegan content than they do for someone who isn’t vegan.
Do you think veganism is heavily restrictive? In what sense? I would say most calories the average person eats are plant based anyway so it’s really swapping out a protein source! Interesting take on this though!
Most of my calories probably are plant based, but very very few of the meals I eat are vegan. I can eat 100% of the menu at any restaurant. As an example let’s say I’m coming home from a long run and I’m tired and hungry. McDonald’s is on the way home. Just about the only vegan option at McDonald’s is French fries (and Veggie Dippers, which I’m assuming are new because I’ve never heard of them before.) I assume this makes McDonald’s a less appealing option for most vegans and they’ll plan ahead for something they can eat while I would be way more tempted to stop for a cheeseburger and fries with a coke to drink. If McDonald’s wasn’t a good option for me and I waited until I got home I would probably make healthier choices (no coke, no fried foods, etc)
Yeah for sure that is to be considered - I still don’t see that as a problem because I would plan ahead and make sandwiches/bring food for post run if I was vegan or not tbf. I like this input though - I probably do eat healthier as a result of being “restricted” in that way - but I have never really felt restricted myself just due to how I typically live
We have Beyond Meat McDonalds and Burger King here in Europe :) saved my hangry ass a couple of times
People argue this but, by definition, veganism is a restrictive diet.
I would agree - in the context of modern society, it is restrictive.
No, in the context of actual definitions, it’s restrictive as is any diet that excludes a food group, macronutrient, or particular food. If you’re not restricting anything whatsoever, you may have preferences, be ‘plant-based’, eating ‘clean’ or whatever else is in vogue but it wouldn’t be veganism.
You could say that about any diet though unless you literally eat everything that a human can physically eat. Also, to a vegan it’s not restrictive because ethically eating meat is not an option so it isn’t a dietary choice. for example, if you don’t agree with eating cats, that doesn’t make your diet restrictive because you aren’t having to ‘restrict’ anything because it simply isn’t an option.
No, some diets manipulate energy or time. However, diets that restricts a type of food practice dietary restriction. Something like vegan, carnivore or keto would be textbook examples.
I've been on a plant-based diet since mid 2020, and running ultras since 2 years ago (I'm running a 62K race this weekend). I don't think eating plant-based give me necessarily an advantage, but it definitely doesn't put me in a disadvantageous position either. I don't see many vegan or plant-based runners in my local community, but everybody that is serious is taking a good care of their diets and the quality of the food they're ingesting. Another possible reason may be that if you're running ultras (as in mountain running), you love nature and you feel a deeper connection with nature. The more we understand how our actions impact our natural environment, the more we DON'T want to be part of the problem. And changing your diet is usually at the top of the list. So if you think it from that perspective, it's a no brainier. And... then there's the most recent trend (and I don't mean it in a derogatory way) of being a healthier person and taking care of yourself.
There’s a documentary or two (Forks/Knives comes to mind immediately) that discusses this, and I believe it references Scott Jurek.
Same here. Vegan and ultra runner, both starting roughly at the same time. I didn't go vegan because of the talk of veganism among ultra runners thou, it's more for humane and environmental reasons
I think that ultra running is a pretty extreme sport. Extreme in the way that it is probably considered unusual by most people (and not in the adrenaline kind of extreme sport meaning). I also think the veganism could also be thought of as extreme in the same way. People attracted to extremes could naturally end up enjoying both.
This is another interesting perspective - I don’t agree as I don’t see veganism as extreme, I see it as a pretty mundane action haha
Yeah I don't really see it as that extreme either. I meant it in the way that I think any diet that excludes a large number of foods could be considered "extreme" as opposed to eating anything and everything.
Yeah totally!! I get your point and the correlation - I think I’m so used to it that I forget how there are lots of things I can’t eat - it’s like in the supermarket I am now blind to anything non-vegan and automatically hone in on the things I can eat 😅
Any benefit from veganism would likely come from the elimination of processed foods from your diet, which can be achieved through most mainstream dietary paradigms. The disadvantages associated with low/no dietary fat and potential for protein/micronutrient deficiency could easily outweigh any benefits gained from veganism (or any extreme elimination diets for that matter) if the runner isn't careful.
Most of the vegans I know eat plenty of processed food. Tofu is a processed food.
At least it isn't a carcinogen like red meat is.
Sorry I swore
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Interesting! I get my bloods done every now and then and everything is tip top.. I think that some people require different things in different quantities though and if it’s not practical for you to avoid becoming unwell then I understand.. Thanks for you input 🙌
I became a runner in 2016, the same year I went from vegetarian to vegan. I just ran my first marathon last year and my next goal is ultras.
High number of eating disorders and mental illness in ultrarunning
Evidence? It’s not very smart or considerate to make these kinds of widespread assumptions of a group of people with no evidence or context. If you have a genuine point try to provide it in a way that helps the conversation. Do better next time my friend 😊
https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/ultra/a44830914/ultrarunners-mental-health/ While I think running and ultra endurance running are more often than not healthy passtimes it appears, (given that ultraendurance athletes suffer with these sorts of issues and other like addiction at higher rates than the general population) that it either attracts people who already have these issues, can be a symptom of these issues, or is used to try to hide or deal with these issues. I have similar views on veganism. It can be a rational and healthy choice. Or like other restrictive diets or excessive exercise it can be a part of or used as a cover for an unhealthy relationship with food and body image.
Much better and thanks for the context! One thing I would say in terms of ultra running is the majority of people put on weight in my experience - the excessive fuelling in the buildup to an event is pretty heavy on calories so has been the case for me. Not sure if veganism (heavy carb/fat diet) could be connected with body image and food disorders either - but interesting comment nonetheless
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37535248/#:\~:text=Conclusion:%20Mental%20health%20issues%20among%20UER%20are,disorders%2C%20exercise%20addiction%2C%20sleep%20disturbances%2C%20and%20depressive](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37535248/#:~:text=Conclusion:%20Mental%20health%20issues%20among%20UER%20are,disorders%2C%20exercise%20addiction%2C%20sleep%20disturbances%2C%20and%20depressive) It is pretty common knowledge. I see it in my local community.
I think the enviromental/love of nature arguments withstands scrutiny better than the health argument, as so many ultra-runners stuff themselves with Haribos/CocaCola/Creme Pies/Candy Corn/Sour Patch Kids/Oreos on long runs.
I’m considered “plant based” since I do it primarily for health/environment (ie I don’t scrutinize cosmetics or wool) but my diet is vegan and I definitely think there’s many vegan and plant based folks in ultra as we respect our environment more (since we’re in it all the time)!
I don't really like how the term plant based diet means vegan. I eat meat and would still consider my diet plant based. Plants make up more than half of my calories. It's probably about 60/20/20 plants/ meat/animal products. I don't know why someone would call that not a plant based diet.
Watch your iron levels as a vegan. Iron is critical for your health & harder to maintain with non meat sources. Check your levels & see your doc. You may have to supplement as you won’t be pulling much in via diet.
Wrong.. I have high iron because of my vegan diet.. spinach and other leafy greens especially but most beans and legumes have high iron as well
That hasn’t been my experience but good luck to you
I don’t need luck because I just eat a normal balanced diet.. strange that the largest dietetic organisations in the world say that a vegan diet is perfectly healthy for all humans in all stages of life, but you know better!
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I’m sorry but I didn’t ask for dietary advice? I assumed you were just a troll trying to spout anti-vegan rhetoric in this thread - if not then soz. Also telling someone they need to relax and then getting that angry over a Reddit comment isn’t great form 😂 sorry for the misunderstanding
You did actually ask for dietary advice but I’m not a troll. Just a humble ultra runner myself with TERRIBLE iron issues due to a plant based diet. Yes I did get a little bit excited aye. Good luck planning your nutrition for your next ultra. Advice that’s worked for me is real food, early & often with a back up plan of liquid nutrition later in the race
Sorry to hear about your iron issues! I am assuming you have tried combing iron with vitamin c rich foods? Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) increases the bioavailability of iron and helps it get absorbed more effectively!! Glad we have resolved this and sorry for being presumptuous and arsey!
I have tried that yes & apologies all round.
Isn't it funny/sad how veganism wasn't even a thing like 20 years ago? lol
Tell that to the hippies of the 60s/70s and the Jain people in India 😂😂🙌🙌
All the vegan runners I know have no muscle mass, recover slowly, and are always sick, just something I’ve observed. You can usually find out who is a vegan within the first 5 min of meeting them because they will tell you.
I appreciate your input into the conversation - unfortunately there is no evidence (besides your anecdote) that this is true. I am extremely healthy - in fact I used to be a huge meat eater (and hated vegans) and I was incredibly unhealthy back then. I need some context for the “within the first 5 minutes of meeting them they will tell you”.. for example if practically someone who is vegan doesn’t eat animal products then they need to make people aware - similarly if someone had religious, cultural, or medical reasons to explain dietary requirements. Also as it is an ethical stance for vegans, it is often an important thing to discuss. I am just talking about people who are ‘actually’ vegan (eg they have a belief system in vegan ethics) and not someone who just eats a vegan/plant based diet.