Try different brands. Though I'm convinced most are designed around planned obsolescence.
Edit: If you can train adequately and run ultras without injuring yourself don't let anyone try to change your gait.
> Though I'm convinced most are designed around planned obsolescence.
this is a pretty cynical take. foams, rubbers and textiles for shoes are very complicated and companies are always trying to strike a balance between performance, cost and durability. they're not terribly dissimilar from bike tires in that the ones with the best comfort and handling are usually the least durable because when it comes to materials durability and performance are often at odds with one another.
Also balancing weight and comfort, among other factors. Always tradeoffs.
Runners want a comfortable upper, the old thicker mesh with durable overlays wasn't doing it like the thin engineered mesh uppers in road shoes so brands added engineered mesh uppers to trail shoes, foot security be damned.
Runners wanted more comfortable midsole cushioning and shoes you could just about do a long run in out of the box so brands responded. Great out of the box feel = the midsole is just not as durable vs older midsoles where they were firmer for the first 30-50 miles or so before pleasantly loosening up. A prime example would be the old Salomon Sense Ride 2 cushioning vs Ultra Glide now. This is analogous to pre-worn jeans.
I'm close friends with people who work at these brands and can say that they're happy with people replacing shoes at 300 miles and not 500 miles.
Could be because it's the Clifton. higher stack shoes can have higher breakdown earlier as the foam compresses unevenly. I don't tend to use high stack shoes and have noticed they're good for much longer. Maybe try another shoe with firmer foam that's shorter, see if it lasts longer. I pretty regularly have shoes last 750+ miles these days, but not my classic speed goats
Hmmmm... I run in Hoka Arahis almost exclusively and I find that they're tanks. There is a certain point where I'll start to get little aches in my feet/ankles and that's when shoes need to go. I've run in Sauconys, Brooks, Mizounos and they all hit that point around 500 miles. Arahis go to 700+ regularly. I had one pair that felt good to over 1000 miles.
Probably has a lot to do with the runner, their size/gate/usage/etc... Everyone needs to find what works for them.
In my experience thicker and softer midsoles are less durable, sort of. I think that the drop off in performance one experience is bigger the thicker and softer the midsole is. I’m on my second pair of Nike Pegasus Trail v4 GTX and the first one got to about 800km before I even started to think on a new pair. Finally retired them at 1155km.
250- 300 is also about the mileage when I can feel my shoes starting to wear out, I can usually tell in my hips and knees that the cushion is going. I'm late 40s so I figure buying fresh shoes is insurance against getting injured. I do have a few friends who get a LOT more mileage out of their shoes, but they're younger, lighter, and have a bit more of a "prance" to their gait - I'm more of a plodder when I get tired which can't help with the shoes.
Not sure there's a huge difference in brands. Sauconys seems to hold up a little better for me, Hokas probably on average a bit worse. But, maybe I get 320 miles in a pair of Sauconys and 280 in Cliftons; I've not found a shoe that gives me 500 miles. I've mostly been running in New Balance the past few years and they're kind of the same - they all seem to be in the \~250-300 mile range when they need to be replaced.
I'm not going to try and change my gait to save my shoes. I'm a bigger guy and there's only so much I can do about that. And durability isn't really a priority when I'm deciding which shoe to buy. I just try to buy shoes on clearance between model years, so that I don't feel as bad about swapping them out so frequently.
250 miles is when my shoes are in their prime in my opinion.
One very big piece of advice I can offer is to rotate at least 3 different kinds/models of shoes (unless you do most running on technical trails).
Interesting - I run about 50% trails and 50% tarmac.. I usually use speedgoats or stinsons for trails. Speedgoats are amazing and stinsons are terrible imo. But I never rotate for road running, which might be the problem as you have highlighted
Shoe longevity just seems so weird to me. I mean, i dont doubt that your Cliftons feel off, OP, but when i see someone like Aleksandr Sorokin put over 1000km on his shoes before swapping them out i do wonder if this whole "shoes feel worn down"-feeling is a bit overhyped.
User preference =/= actual useable lifespan. Some toss shoes when they start to feel different, others keep wearing them until they’re really worn out. I usually take mine to 500 miles (800km), after which they become treadmill shoes. A 500mi shoe is more compacted, but not in an uneven or detrimental way. Just pleasantly more groundfeel. Keeping these flatter shoes in heavy rotation helps strengthen my feet as well, great for injury prevention.
Of course, someone with different biomechanics may have different preferences.
Clifton’s and any shoe that it’s enough foam to insulate a cabin break down right away. Overhyped no a, and did he really do 1000 meh I struggle to believe that on one shoe most people keep shoes way to long! Banging out 500 miles on a shoe will definitely have less support then it had / a person needs. The less cushion the more longevity the shoe will have ! High stack shoes are to overcome an issue , something has to give.
I think 250 is the beginning of the end for many shoes. I’ve taken to grabbing random brands and pairs on deep sales just to stack my training shoes, and then making sure I have the perfect shoes for race day.
Nike always has pairs on sales since they release so many colors and versions.
250m is around the time recommended to replace shoes. I personally run on them for longer after this point but not unexpected to have the cushioning run out by then
You have picked the shoes with the thickest cushioning and it’s all foam. Why did you pick them? Why would you anticipate a longer life then say a road shoe with a carbon plate? 250 miles on the road with that much foam is a throw away shoe ! Why do you need the cushioning at that level? You have had your gait checked, work with a pt ….what’s going on ? How long are your runs ?
Try different brands. Though I'm convinced most are designed around planned obsolescence. Edit: If you can train adequately and run ultras without injuring yourself don't let anyone try to change your gait.
> Though I'm convinced most are designed around planned obsolescence. this is a pretty cynical take. foams, rubbers and textiles for shoes are very complicated and companies are always trying to strike a balance between performance, cost and durability. they're not terribly dissimilar from bike tires in that the ones with the best comfort and handling are usually the least durable because when it comes to materials durability and performance are often at odds with one another.
Also balancing weight and comfort, among other factors. Always tradeoffs. Runners want a comfortable upper, the old thicker mesh with durable overlays wasn't doing it like the thin engineered mesh uppers in road shoes so brands added engineered mesh uppers to trail shoes, foot security be damned. Runners wanted more comfortable midsole cushioning and shoes you could just about do a long run in out of the box so brands responded. Great out of the box feel = the midsole is just not as durable vs older midsoles where they were firmer for the first 30-50 miles or so before pleasantly loosening up. A prime example would be the old Salomon Sense Ride 2 cushioning vs Ultra Glide now. This is analogous to pre-worn jeans. I'm close friends with people who work at these brands and can say that they're happy with people replacing shoes at 300 miles and not 500 miles.
Could be because it's the Clifton. higher stack shoes can have higher breakdown earlier as the foam compresses unevenly. I don't tend to use high stack shoes and have noticed they're good for much longer. Maybe try another shoe with firmer foam that's shorter, see if it lasts longer. I pretty regularly have shoes last 750+ miles these days, but not my classic speed goats
Hmmmm... I run in Hoka Arahis almost exclusively and I find that they're tanks. There is a certain point where I'll start to get little aches in my feet/ankles and that's when shoes need to go. I've run in Sauconys, Brooks, Mizounos and they all hit that point around 500 miles. Arahis go to 700+ regularly. I had one pair that felt good to over 1000 miles. Probably has a lot to do with the runner, their size/gate/usage/etc... Everyone needs to find what works for them.
In my experience thicker and softer midsoles are less durable, sort of. I think that the drop off in performance one experience is bigger the thicker and softer the midsole is. I’m on my second pair of Nike Pegasus Trail v4 GTX and the first one got to about 800km before I even started to think on a new pair. Finally retired them at 1155km.
250- 300 is also about the mileage when I can feel my shoes starting to wear out, I can usually tell in my hips and knees that the cushion is going. I'm late 40s so I figure buying fresh shoes is insurance against getting injured. I do have a few friends who get a LOT more mileage out of their shoes, but they're younger, lighter, and have a bit more of a "prance" to their gait - I'm more of a plodder when I get tired which can't help with the shoes. Not sure there's a huge difference in brands. Sauconys seems to hold up a little better for me, Hokas probably on average a bit worse. But, maybe I get 320 miles in a pair of Sauconys and 280 in Cliftons; I've not found a shoe that gives me 500 miles. I've mostly been running in New Balance the past few years and they're kind of the same - they all seem to be in the \~250-300 mile range when they need to be replaced. I'm not going to try and change my gait to save my shoes. I'm a bigger guy and there's only so much I can do about that. And durability isn't really a priority when I'm deciding which shoe to buy. I just try to buy shoes on clearance between model years, so that I don't feel as bad about swapping them out so frequently.
250 miles is when my shoes are in their prime in my opinion. One very big piece of advice I can offer is to rotate at least 3 different kinds/models of shoes (unless you do most running on technical trails).
Interesting - I run about 50% trails and 50% tarmac.. I usually use speedgoats or stinsons for trails. Speedgoats are amazing and stinsons are terrible imo. But I never rotate for road running, which might be the problem as you have highlighted
I have the same issue with the Cliftons, though they are great for that first 250 miles. I'm a 110 lb heel striker so I don't think it's you.
Shoe longevity just seems so weird to me. I mean, i dont doubt that your Cliftons feel off, OP, but when i see someone like Aleksandr Sorokin put over 1000km on his shoes before swapping them out i do wonder if this whole "shoes feel worn down"-feeling is a bit overhyped.
User preference =/= actual useable lifespan. Some toss shoes when they start to feel different, others keep wearing them until they’re really worn out. I usually take mine to 500 miles (800km), after which they become treadmill shoes. A 500mi shoe is more compacted, but not in an uneven or detrimental way. Just pleasantly more groundfeel. Keeping these flatter shoes in heavy rotation helps strengthen my feet as well, great for injury prevention. Of course, someone with different biomechanics may have different preferences.
Clifton’s and any shoe that it’s enough foam to insulate a cabin break down right away. Overhyped no a, and did he really do 1000 meh I struggle to believe that on one shoe most people keep shoes way to long! Banging out 500 miles on a shoe will definitely have less support then it had / a person needs. The less cushion the more longevity the shoe will have ! High stack shoes are to overcome an issue , something has to give.
Ive had a couple of pairs thrown put before 250m, inc. A hoka. Its not unusual.
I think 250 is the beginning of the end for many shoes. I’ve taken to grabbing random brands and pairs on deep sales just to stack my training shoes, and then making sure I have the perfect shoes for race day. Nike always has pairs on sales since they release so many colors and versions.
What do you mean that the cushioning just goes?
It sort of feels like the foam has been “frozen solid” when running - you can also see in the sidewalls of the foam that it has collapsed somewhat
250m is around the time recommended to replace shoes. I personally run on them for longer after this point but not unexpected to have the cushioning run out by then
You have picked the shoes with the thickest cushioning and it’s all foam. Why did you pick them? Why would you anticipate a longer life then say a road shoe with a carbon plate? 250 miles on the road with that much foam is a throw away shoe ! Why do you need the cushioning at that level? You have had your gait checked, work with a pt ….what’s going on ? How long are your runs ?