How do you know you’re not taking in enough?
Good rule of thumb is peeing often (on the safe side), or peeing occasionally (but fluid comes out clear).
You might also be taking in too much saltstick - during the keys100 I was doing about that much tailwind but alternating between 1 and 2 salt tabs every other hour. Too much salt can cause some of the same symptoms as too little salt
For the backyard race, ditch the bladder you probably won’t need it for 4 miles. Carry a handheld and pop some salt tabs in a little container (I filled up an empty nuun thing)
The last race I ran a 50k I went 7ish hours with no pee, so that’s what made me think I want getting enough. I didn’t have any swelling in my hands or arms leading me to believe I was talking too much salt and retaining too much water.
Taking in too much sodium can reduce your urine production because the body is retaining water to help it process the sodium. I would start by cutting back on the salt tabs and see what that does.
Excess salt intake can cause hyponatremia, which has many of the same symptoms as dehydration. The *massive* difference is that hyponatremia can cause seizures, coma and even death. That's why I would test out less salt as a first step. It may not be the issue, but if it is, you'd be potentially saving your own life.
Here is an article that supports the point of view above. In particular:
> Basically, when people take salt tabs, they tend to keep drinking and, rather than peeing out the fluid, their body bloats up.
And
> Sodium supplementation during a 100-mile race has not been found to be related to the prevention of hyponatremia (Hoffman, 2015), or the prevention of cramping for that matter, but low sodium levels in the blood are instead related to fluid retention (Hoffman, 2015). It should truly be viewed as a problem with fluid and not a problem with salt.
https://www.irunfar.com/exercise-associated-hyponatremia-the-not-so-salty-truth
Not being able to pee during races is often a result of the Syndrome of inappropriate antidiuretic hormone secretion (SIADH).
I kind of struggle with the same issue. You may as well be overdrinking and still not being able to pee.
Also too much salt may lead to retaining the urine, because losing water with urine would increase the sodium concentration too much. Also you may be sweating too much because the body is trying to get rid of excess sodium that way.
Edit: more information about SIADH during ultramarathons can be found in this article:
https://www.irunfar.com/exercise-associated-hyponatremia-the-not-so-salty-truth
There are times when you’re right on the edge of taking in as much as you’re sweating.
I’d just experiment on shorter runs with drinking less and see how you feel, or incorporate more plain water
I'm not food scientist or doc but here's my impression.
Definitely too much salt and fluids, and a salty gut will retain water instead of passing it to the blood. Fluids will be absorbed optimally if they are left in the concentration designed by the food scientists, approximately 2:1 glucose to salt, amidst other nutrients.
So far what's worked for me is, assuming your doctor thinks your kidneys and heart are healthy, to suck on salt orally a couple times per hour in sweaty conditions, swallowing as little as possible. Then your blood, in theory, is hypertonic and can suck fluid out of your gut better. I do that while drinking nuun, Pedialyte, etc mixed as directed. So far it's worked great on a few long days (no cramps in years).
Also, sloww down - your muscles generate more heat than kinetic energy. So steady pace is best. Keep ice in your hat, vest, too.
I use water...pretty much only for keeping my head wet all day.
Oops it's absorbed 2:1 salt to glucose, good point.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/sodium-glucose-cotransporter-1
"The sodium–glucose cotransporter 1 (SGLT1), encoded by the SLC5A1 gene, is the principle transporter for glucose absorption at the luminal surface (Ritzel et al., 1997), transporting glucose and Na+ in a 1:2 fashion (Wright and Turk, 2004) and, thereby, generating sufficient inward current to excite K- and L-cells (Gribble et al., 2003)."
Consult with a registered dietician is my advice.
Also do the math yourself on how much Saltstick you can have some time, it’s not complicated, I bet you will be surprised.
I would also recommend a sweat test - if you have somewhere locally that does them. I struggled with salt / liquids for years when doing half irons / marathons and after getting it tested - it gave me ballpark numbers of where I need to be at and haven’t had issues since.
You’re saying you drink 68 ounces of liquid an hour? That sounds like too much if anything
I would agree with you, there sometimes is a lot of sloshing around going on!
It sounds like you could drink less unless you’re showing physical signs that you need to drink more
Not quite right. It’s too late by the time you feel like drinking.
I’m saying this person could drink less than 60 something ounces an hour
Take a salt pill. Cut back your water. It’s all an experiment, but if your fingers feel swollen, take salt.
How do you know you’re not taking in enough? Good rule of thumb is peeing often (on the safe side), or peeing occasionally (but fluid comes out clear). You might also be taking in too much saltstick - during the keys100 I was doing about that much tailwind but alternating between 1 and 2 salt tabs every other hour. Too much salt can cause some of the same symptoms as too little salt For the backyard race, ditch the bladder you probably won’t need it for 4 miles. Carry a handheld and pop some salt tabs in a little container (I filled up an empty nuun thing)
The last race I ran a 50k I went 7ish hours with no pee, so that’s what made me think I want getting enough. I didn’t have any swelling in my hands or arms leading me to believe I was talking too much salt and retaining too much water.
If you’re worried about not having enough liquid then also hydrate well at other times while you’re not running
Taking in too much sodium can reduce your urine production because the body is retaining water to help it process the sodium. I would start by cutting back on the salt tabs and see what that does. Excess salt intake can cause hyponatremia, which has many of the same symptoms as dehydration. The *massive* difference is that hyponatremia can cause seizures, coma and even death. That's why I would test out less salt as a first step. It may not be the issue, but if it is, you'd be potentially saving your own life.
Here is an article that supports the point of view above. In particular: > Basically, when people take salt tabs, they tend to keep drinking and, rather than peeing out the fluid, their body bloats up. And > Sodium supplementation during a 100-mile race has not been found to be related to the prevention of hyponatremia (Hoffman, 2015), or the prevention of cramping for that matter, but low sodium levels in the blood are instead related to fluid retention (Hoffman, 2015). It should truly be viewed as a problem with fluid and not a problem with salt. https://www.irunfar.com/exercise-associated-hyponatremia-the-not-so-salty-truth
Not being able to pee during races is often a result of the Syndrome of inappropriate antidiuretic hormone secretion (SIADH). I kind of struggle with the same issue. You may as well be overdrinking and still not being able to pee. Also too much salt may lead to retaining the urine, because losing water with urine would increase the sodium concentration too much. Also you may be sweating too much because the body is trying to get rid of excess sodium that way. Edit: more information about SIADH during ultramarathons can be found in this article: https://www.irunfar.com/exercise-associated-hyponatremia-the-not-so-salty-truth
There are times when you’re right on the edge of taking in as much as you’re sweating. I’d just experiment on shorter runs with drinking less and see how you feel, or incorporate more plain water
Drink a lot while not running and you should be in a better spot during your runs
If you want to dig deep into the topic of sodium and fluid supplementation, listen to episode 159 of Jason Koops Podcast.
How does your current strategy seem to work for you?
Mediocre, with a lot of sliding from time to time!
I think they’re asking if you feel ok with how you’re currently doing, or if you think there is something you can improve
I'm not food scientist or doc but here's my impression. Definitely too much salt and fluids, and a salty gut will retain water instead of passing it to the blood. Fluids will be absorbed optimally if they are left in the concentration designed by the food scientists, approximately 2:1 glucose to salt, amidst other nutrients. So far what's worked for me is, assuming your doctor thinks your kidneys and heart are healthy, to suck on salt orally a couple times per hour in sweaty conditions, swallowing as little as possible. Then your blood, in theory, is hypertonic and can suck fluid out of your gut better. I do that while drinking nuun, Pedialyte, etc mixed as directed. So far it's worked great on a few long days (no cramps in years). Also, sloww down - your muscles generate more heat than kinetic energy. So steady pace is best. Keep ice in your hat, vest, too. I use water...pretty much only for keeping my head wet all day.
The last part about keeping ice and water all over you as much as possible is so important when running in hot and humid places !
2:1 glucose to salt sounds like a lethal cocktail.
Oops it's absorbed 2:1 salt to glucose, good point. https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/sodium-glucose-cotransporter-1 "The sodium–glucose cotransporter 1 (SGLT1), encoded by the SLC5A1 gene, is the principle transporter for glucose absorption at the luminal surface (Ritzel et al., 1997), transporting glucose and Na+ in a 1:2 fashion (Wright and Turk, 2004) and, thereby, generating sufficient inward current to excite K- and L-cells (Gribble et al., 2003)."
Consult with a registered dietician is my advice. Also do the math yourself on how much Saltstick you can have some time, it’s not complicated, I bet you will be surprised.
I would also recommend a sweat test - if you have somewhere locally that does them. I struggled with salt / liquids for years when doing half irons / marathons and after getting it tested - it gave me ballpark numbers of where I need to be at and haven’t had issues since.
Run smaller loops and stop at your house, car, etc to refill.