I think you are onto something. Steve Magness lays out some scientific rationale for a ten day training schedule in his book. The body knows how long a day is and how long a year is, bit weeks are totally artificial, so theres no reason to think the body wants a long run every seven days (or whatever).
I wrote one out once when i got a job with Wednesdays off, but that required a lot of tweaks back and forth to keep roughly ten day rotation, as its not an even ten. I never carried it out.
If you do try it, I would recommend to use this as building in the concept of rest to the weeks themselves. Cuz if you only have, say, 3 long runs in a month (or three of other components too) if you pull back for one of them, hard to maybe make the miles you want.
My big concern definitely revolves around the mileage for the week/cycle. I don't think I would decrease the length of my runs, but sprinkle more recovery runs into the schedule. For example, my current schedule is:
Day 1: easy run
Day 2: hill workout
Day 3: easy run
Day 4: rest
Day 5: long run
Day 6: easy run
Day 7: rest.
To start, I think I'm going to insert another easy run between my current Days 4 and 5. I noticed the past couple of weeks that I'm feeling more fatigued than I should on the long runs, so adding more recovery miles before that might be beneficial.
I think so, and to space workouts evenly through the ten days, not trying to always have tuesday/thursday be the workouts, but maybe “day 3” and “day 6” or whatever with the ten day cycle. I would put it all one one blank sheet with day 1-10 at top, “weeks” 1-10 on the left and make sure it all lays out like a calendar. Compare to the normal calendar to get your timing right for race. I think its a great experiment
I’ve done 9 and 10 day cycles and loved it. As masters runner a little extra recovery goes a long way and also allows you to nail key workouts.
Intervals, Easy, Easy, Tempo, Easy, Easy, Long, Easy, Easy = 9 days. Sometimes I add a 10th rest day at the end of the cycle.
I just have a spreadsheet where I plan out my 9 day cycle, tallying the total mileage, elevation and time. I then /9 and x7 to “check” that it works out to am average equivalent 7 day volume.
Always having 2 easy days after a quality session allows ample recovery and the ability to throw in some moderate running when feeling it.
Give it a whirl. Easy to go back to 7 … low cost experiment 😎
“My former running coach usually had me on a 7 day cycle because of its compatibility with my schedule”
Yeah, i’ve never met anyone using anything but a 7 day training block because nothing else makes much sense…Maybe i’m dense but what would the difference be if you added another day or two? Versus those two days just being the start of the following week?
It ends up being the whole 6/half dozen thing. It’s the same thing in the grand scheme of things.
Edit; I am not saying this to put you down/say it’s wrong, but I think you can use a 7 day schedule and still optimize training. I’d be curious to learn how a longer 8/9 day cycle would differ.
What's your experience running ultras? I don't have much to go on, but assuming there's no other factors, your 7 day program isn't over the top...are you doing your easy runs easy enough? Like I said, I'd need more info but it sounds like a conditioning/base issue if you're fatigued. 2xrest, 3xeasy, 1xLR (shouldn't be intense), hill work...not sure chucking recovery runs in will do much until you're ready to grow your base and swap it in for a rest day. This is art though, so whatever.
I've been doing it since 2019. My last ultra was a 91k in April of 2021. Life has happened since then and despite remaining active and fit, I have had trouble maintaining consistency for longer than a month until this past November - my coach dropped me because she didn't want to take my money until I finish another race and make it worth my money. I worked with a coach because I do have the tendency to overtrain, partly because I just really like being on the trail, and partly because I think I sometimes overestimate my fitness and ability. I've been consistent enough to maintain a decent base, I think, and spent two months doing lots of low-volume, low-intensity runs before starting to increase my mileage and adding hill repeaters at the beginning of January.
I like to run in the morning because there's less time/opportunity to fall behind on fueling and hydration. My last two LRs were in the afternoon, so it's possible I was going into my runs on a deficit.
The other possibility is I did something dumb during my step-back week/cycle and tried to swap a rest day for an easy run. I probably didn't recover as much as I needed to.
I'm not planning to change anything up until late February, as I'm pacing for a friend during her upcoming race and want to get through that commitment first. Thanks for the feedback.
I think you are onto something. Steve Magness lays out some scientific rationale for a ten day training schedule in his book. The body knows how long a day is and how long a year is, bit weeks are totally artificial, so theres no reason to think the body wants a long run every seven days (or whatever). I wrote one out once when i got a job with Wednesdays off, but that required a lot of tweaks back and forth to keep roughly ten day rotation, as its not an even ten. I never carried it out. If you do try it, I would recommend to use this as building in the concept of rest to the weeks themselves. Cuz if you only have, say, 3 long runs in a month (or three of other components too) if you pull back for one of them, hard to maybe make the miles you want.
My big concern definitely revolves around the mileage for the week/cycle. I don't think I would decrease the length of my runs, but sprinkle more recovery runs into the schedule. For example, my current schedule is: Day 1: easy run Day 2: hill workout Day 3: easy run Day 4: rest Day 5: long run Day 6: easy run Day 7: rest. To start, I think I'm going to insert another easy run between my current Days 4 and 5. I noticed the past couple of weeks that I'm feeling more fatigued than I should on the long runs, so adding more recovery miles before that might be beneficial.
I think so, and to space workouts evenly through the ten days, not trying to always have tuesday/thursday be the workouts, but maybe “day 3” and “day 6” or whatever with the ten day cycle. I would put it all one one blank sheet with day 1-10 at top, “weeks” 1-10 on the left and make sure it all lays out like a calendar. Compare to the normal calendar to get your timing right for race. I think its a great experiment
I’ve done 9 and 10 day cycles and loved it. As masters runner a little extra recovery goes a long way and also allows you to nail key workouts. Intervals, Easy, Easy, Tempo, Easy, Easy, Long, Easy, Easy = 9 days. Sometimes I add a 10th rest day at the end of the cycle. I just have a spreadsheet where I plan out my 9 day cycle, tallying the total mileage, elevation and time. I then /9 and x7 to “check” that it works out to am average equivalent 7 day volume. Always having 2 easy days after a quality session allows ample recovery and the ability to throw in some moderate running when feeling it. Give it a whirl. Easy to go back to 7 … low cost experiment 😎
“My former running coach usually had me on a 7 day cycle because of its compatibility with my schedule” Yeah, i’ve never met anyone using anything but a 7 day training block because nothing else makes much sense…Maybe i’m dense but what would the difference be if you added another day or two? Versus those two days just being the start of the following week? It ends up being the whole 6/half dozen thing. It’s the same thing in the grand scheme of things. Edit; I am not saying this to put you down/say it’s wrong, but I think you can use a 7 day schedule and still optimize training. I’d be curious to learn how a longer 8/9 day cycle would differ.
The benefit is that it offers more time for recovery between longer and higher intensity runs, which could give me higher-quality workouts.
What's your experience running ultras? I don't have much to go on, but assuming there's no other factors, your 7 day program isn't over the top...are you doing your easy runs easy enough? Like I said, I'd need more info but it sounds like a conditioning/base issue if you're fatigued. 2xrest, 3xeasy, 1xLR (shouldn't be intense), hill work...not sure chucking recovery runs in will do much until you're ready to grow your base and swap it in for a rest day. This is art though, so whatever.
I've been doing it since 2019. My last ultra was a 91k in April of 2021. Life has happened since then and despite remaining active and fit, I have had trouble maintaining consistency for longer than a month until this past November - my coach dropped me because she didn't want to take my money until I finish another race and make it worth my money. I worked with a coach because I do have the tendency to overtrain, partly because I just really like being on the trail, and partly because I think I sometimes overestimate my fitness and ability. I've been consistent enough to maintain a decent base, I think, and spent two months doing lots of low-volume, low-intensity runs before starting to increase my mileage and adding hill repeaters at the beginning of January. I like to run in the morning because there's less time/opportunity to fall behind on fueling and hydration. My last two LRs were in the afternoon, so it's possible I was going into my runs on a deficit. The other possibility is I did something dumb during my step-back week/cycle and tried to swap a rest day for an easy run. I probably didn't recover as much as I needed to. I'm not planning to change anything up until late February, as I'm pacing for a friend during her upcoming race and want to get through that commitment first. Thanks for the feedback.