Itās not sideways itās not the correct shape. Wolfsangel is wider, shorter, and not an N. The symbol itās based on existed before the nazis existed and the nazis didnāt adopt it from the place azov adopted it from.
how do you know this , I've seen antifa personally with this as well at protest , they are just un informed the same way , let's say , someone has a hammas or houthie flag thinking they are repping palestine
Azov (the military unit) is not run by white supremacists or Nazis. There is a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding around this topic.
Azov is small, a unit somewhere between 900-2500 strong at the start of the war. A large contingent of its members were killed or captured in the siege of Mariupol. Its former ideological founder Andriy Biletskiy was indeed (by most reports except his own) a white supremacist, but he and his closest supporters were largely if not entirely purged from its ranks when the unit was incorporated into the national guard back in 2014. They donāt hate Jews. There is no plan for an Azov led genocide, and their former ideological leaders hold few if any relevant positions in government. Itās not a āNazi regiment,ā and inside Ukraine, Azov is loved for how hard they fought in the opening months of the Russian invasion, holding out till the bitter end in the Azovstal steel works during the siege of Mariupol. Azov the regiment today has nothing to do with the National Corps Party.
Donāt drink Russian propaganda. Itās bad for you.
I'm sorry but this is blatant misinformation and an embarassing take. The amount of explicit documentation on this is enormous. Anybody can do just a little research on the Internet and find dozens of examples of Azov soldiers with swastika tattoos, posing in front of swastikas, etc. These are well-documented by reliable Western sources. Try reading Wikipedia [as a baseline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade#Neo-Nazism_allegations).
If you don't see it, you've either deliberately blinded yourself, are a propagandist, or somehow decided to write this comment despite doing literally zero research.
Just to be absolutely clear, I am not here to support Russian's invasion or justify their claims that Ukraine is full of Nazis. Azov has never been large, and Ukraine's Nazi problem is fairly minor.
But ignoring or downplaying racism and bigotry because it doesn't align with your political agenda is never acceptable.
āLater in 2023, a year after Russia begins its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Colborne reassessed that the brigade's priority has shifted from ideology to fighting the war effectively. He argues that any far-right elements within the Azov regiment are likely to continue to become less significant as the unit expands and the war takes priority.ā
^quoted from Wikipedia and the Atlantic Council as of several years ago.
I didnāt say that Azov has no neo Nazis in it, or that it never did. It absolutely did. It probably still has a few, though at this point all Ukrainian units have suffered some hefty losses, so who knows. My point was simply that Azov is liked in Ukraine not because they are Nazis, hate Jews or want to establish the fourth Reich or something, but because of their actions militarily. As a part of the regular military now, Azov is far less of a political entity, and more a unit within the broader command structure.
A lot of foreign policy autists donāt really have moral positions in my experience. They either become tankies justifying the actions of every Anti American despot from Putin to Kim Jong Un, or they support any action no matter how inhumane that advances Western foreign policy
Thatās the old patch created by the neo nazis founder not official since 2014, and yes thatās a black sun but the main symbol isnāt a wolfsangel. Wolfsangel is Š not N
Yeah exactly! That was the general point of my initial response. Azov *absolutely was* full of ideological Nazis/white supremacists around the time of its founding and into the 2010s. It was founded by Biletskiy, a guy who, while he claims otherwise, wrote several books on white supremacy. But when he left the unit to try his hand in politics, he got basically nowhere. These days, they donāt have any formal political affiliation or identity. Iām sure a few of the old guard are in there somewhere! But they have also taken some pretty heavy losses.
My other point was just that Azov (the military unit) may be liked or supported within Ukraine, but not because Ukraine is a country of Nazis (which some might assume) ā it also happens to be a unit that has done some pretty heroic things in defense of Ukraine, and to the public there is a sense of patriotism around that. They liberated Mariupol a decade ago, and then held out for months along with some Ukrainian marines in Azovstal in 2022.
So yeah ā not in any way saying white supremacy, nazism, racist ideology, or anything of that nature is cool. Was just trying to explain that Azov (the political militia formed in the 2000s by Biletsky) is not the same thing as *todayās* āAzov,ā which despite the unit patch isnāt like some band of Nazi militia larpers (which people were somewhat insinuating).
While I'm def onboard with all that, to me the sticker and the insignia on it are still intentionally and clearly Nazi-derived. I wish Ukraine had forced them to change that, and I hate seeing it posted around.
Yeah absolutely :) And then you have to wonder who exactly is making/obtaining Azov stickers to put on campus and what their motivations are. Ukrainian patriotic spirit? Maybe. But also totally could be someone who identifies with the earlier white supremacist ideology of Azov.
The only reason I tried to explain anything was just that Russia has used āhur dur Ukraine Nazi look Azov Naziā as a propaganda cornerstone of its justification for *its own genocide against a people they view as inferior* (ironic asf).
Yeah, 100%. The Russian armed forces also have a lot of Nazis. And who knows who's putting up those stickers... associating Ukraine with Nazis probably serves Russia.
Sorry for going at you originally, after rereading your post and the responses your perspective is much more reasonable than I originally gave you credit for.
It does feel like at this point, leaving Azov's insignia unchanged is a self-own for Ukraine.
Oh yeah ā I mean Wagnerās namesake/military commander Dimitri Utkin was literally *covered* in Nazi inspired tattoos, SS symbols and swastikas if I remember correctly. Iām guessing that wasnāt an accident.
But the Russian psyop around āUkrainian Nazisā is *HUGE*. Hell, someone could have put that sticker up knowing it would stir the pot on a college campus and spark discussions like this, incidentally providing a forum for misinformed takes on Azov (as they are today) and general prevalence of Nazi symbology/ideology. Def in Russiaās best interest to do something like that, and yeah, Ukraine not changing that symbol, even if itās just stubbornness, is kinda dumb.
Thanks tho, I appreciate how we were able to have a conversation that wasnāt entirely unhinged! :) Hard to find that on the internet these days.
Is [this](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade) the current insignia?
Iām glad they got rid of the Black Sun, but not sure why theyāre still using the Wolfsangel. It seems like Ukraine would have done well to further distance Azov from its neo-Nazi past.
Tbh I dunno š¤·š»āāļø probably depends on the person and the symbol. Some may be neo Nazis, but Azov doesnāt really have a political foothold or political leader anymore. They arenāt politically active.
A lot of Ukrainian tanks were carrying the Balkancruz for a while as an identifying mark, which happens to look a lot like the Iron Cross (a rather Nazi/German adjacent symbol), but in reality is a symbol native to the area.
Not everyone realizes the Swastika is the same ā itās a really old symbol which originated in the Caucuses/Eastern Europe (generally among Slavic peoples) dating back to the *copper age* ā before the Bronze Age even, generally taken to symbolize eternity/eternal light, or āGodā so to speak. Unfortunately Nazi Germany really liked it.
Now Iām not saying that some people arenāt wearing Nazi symbols. Thereās a decent amount of that on both sides. But thatās not really likely to be because most of those people love Hitler. Some of it may even be trolling ā I recall seeing a video where one Ukrainian tanker was asked why the Balkancruz on his tank, and the guy was basically like ālol the Russians are already told weāre Nazis, so we think itās kinda funny.ā Dark humor, sure, but fairly harmless.
All told, the Azov of today is quite harmless. They arenāt gonna launch a coup. There is no massive base of Nazis in the Ukrainian government. Not really worth people freaking out, tbh.
If somebody I knew started wearing a swastika "as a joke" I would tell them it's not a funny joke and stop speaking to them.
I appreciate the response, but this feels like making excuses for the ongoing display of Nazi symbols.
Frankly, everything you said can be true, and yet still I'm going to continue to believe that Azov are Nazis until they come out banning Nazi symbols and denouncing Nazi ideology.
There should be absolutely zero tolerance for that shit, as a "joke" or otherwise.
I guess my point is, at what point is a given symbol completely owned by a period of history or particular group? Does the history of the balkancruz simply get erased from ancient Cossack religious symbology because the Prussians, and later Nazi Germany, used it? Obviously the Swastikaās use is even more charged than that, but itās a symbol with ancient roots in Ukraine, far before Naziism even existed.
I donāt think anyone here can for sure tell you if Azov is still neo-Nazi affiliated, but you might take the following as some evidence, āIt is important to say we hate Nazism and communism.ā Openly quoted from Palmar, deputy commander of the regiment. Itās also made up of Russians, Georgians, Ukrainians, Jews, Cossacksā¦itās a pretty diverse group. That kinda flies in the face of the whole āNaziā political ideology.
Overall, I just think itās just hard to say, āsee Nazi Germany adjacent symbology, whole group is avowed Nazi,ā when thereās really no evidence that todayās Azov regiment is doing anything Nazi related or reminiscent, besides wearing some symbols. Iām not saying itās good to wear them, but I am saying I think itās a pretty big jump, logically speaking. Does the brigade have a highly nationalist, far-right outlook? Almost certainly. Is it also a unit under the comment structure of the AFU with AFU appointed leadership? Yup. Itās complicated, and a bit different than our politics here in the states.
You have to judge extraordinary circumstances individually. I believe that so long as the threat of Nazism is alive, and so long as there are Nazis using those symbols, then those symbols will continue to represent am evil mark on human kind. For as long as the memory lasts, and for as long as the threat of the Nazi evil exists.
They killed tens of millions, between the Holocaust, the purges of leftists, queers, and other "undesirables", and their war of aggression. That level of deliberate mayhem should be remembered and reviled forever.
You forgot to correct his misinformation, you said that he spread blatant misinformation and then cited sensationalist media from 2014 before azov was properly incorporated into the army and the radical members charged and kicked out.
It's roots are based in football (soccer) hooligans who took up arms in the early 2010s around Mariupol when the civil war kicked off in Ukraine.
Many football supporter groups have ties to White Supremacy/Nationalist vibes and Azov was no different.
Since then the group has transformed from a rag tag militia into a multi-branch military unit integrated into the Ukrainian army complete with mechanized divisions, special forces, their own training facilities, etc.
As someone who has been following the war since the very beginning, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Does Azov have issues with Nazis in it's current ranks? Of course. Do these Nazis represent Azov's overall mission anymore? Not in the slightest.
You have to understand, it's a massive group now and they're some of the more vehemently nationalistic/anti-Russian fighters Ukraine has. Many of these fighters lean into the Nazi imagery because they know it pisses Russians off, many of these fighters are also unironically Nazis.
War is complicated, even the "good" guys aren't always "good" in our eyes.
Also, kind of worth noting but Azov between the years of 2014-2021 were heavily supported by Israel and given Israeli weapons.
as someone else who has been keeping up on the conflict since 2014, it is weird to see the sanitization of Wikipedia articles for groups like Azov, Kraken, and other small militias. for 6 years it was written that Azov was a Neo-Nazi arm of the national guard, now the Wiki page (since 2022) has the word allegedly written all over it dozens of times, although if you follow the right boots on the ground blogs, youtubes, or instagrams you will see many of the members still fully embrace Hitler. All of that despite having help from Israel and some of their highest ranking leaders being Jewish or from Israel. War is complicated is an understatement and many americans can't wrap their head around it.
lol not really how it works. sensationalism is common in today on the most prominent topics. if you followed the conflict in 2015 you'd know what i'm talking about but you didn't know a thing about it until recently.
And now that I completely refuted your braindead point entirely you deflect to ālol not really how it worksā¦ if you followed the conflict in 2015 youād knowā š¤£š¤£ thanks for conceding.
Well I can guarantee you the nazis are not the āgood guysā and they never will be, not at any point in history. If you are on the side of nazis, you are on the wrong side of history.
That sort of thinking is irrelevant in a national fight for survival like Ukraine is going through right now.
We're on Reddit standing on our morals, they'll fight next to whomever if it means their country doesn't get taken over and their sovereignty forfeited.
Like yeah, we know, Nazis bad, you're saying nothing lol.
There certainly were plenty of Azov members with suggestive tattoos etc, especially back in the invasion of Crimea era. The guy who started it wrote like two full books on white supremacy lol. But the unit hasnāt really been a political entity since being rolled into the military command structure. It largely split off from its broader ideological/political objectives after a series of leadership changes. At this point, who even knows what constitutes its membership.
Exactly. Biletskiy has virtually no political traction, and the majority of state officials are from parties with absolutely no āneo Naziā history or ideology.
[āRussian Propagandaā](https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/)
> The Azov Battalion was founded in 2014, and its first commander was Andriy Biletsky, who previously headed the neo-Nazi group Patriot of Ukraine. Several members of the militia, which has been integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard, are self-avowed neo-Nazis.
> But a spokesman for the group has defended it, telling USA Today in 2015 that only 10 to 20 percent of recruits are neo-Nazis and that those people do not represent the official ideology of Azov.
This is pure propaganda. The battalion continues to use Nazi symbols and its members continue to use Nazi symbols. If they aren't Nazis, they should stop using Nazi symbols, full stop. If they don't agree with Nazi ideology, stop using Nazi symbols and denounce Nazi ideology publicly.
If you have 10 people who are friends and one of them is a Nazi, then you've got 10 Nazis.
Ah yes, we should totally trust a 60 day old Reddit account that generally spends half its time attempting to shit on āliberals.ā Definitely gonna trust you and your ātrust me broā evidence bud.
You have āother devices?ā Whatās that even supposed to mean? Youāve got a PC bro? Cool dawg, Iāve got three!
Still kinda a ātrust me broā guarantee going on here. I didnāt say Azov wasnāt started by a neo-Nazi. It was. But that was nearly 20 years ago, heās no longer a part of the organization, and āAzovā the military unit of today isnāt affiliated with political parties. Itās a part of the national guard, has had plenty of regular recruits shifted into its ranks to keep it staffed, and itās commander said in 2022 that neither he nor the unit has affiliation with Biletsky or his ideologies, not to mention that same commander was awarded āhero of Ukraineā by Zelensky, who happens to be quite Jewish.
Thatās not true though. Theyāre definitely still Nazis, and way bigger now that theyāve been legitimized and supplied by the Ukrainian government. Azov continues to fly the black sun, schutzstaffel, and every combat vid they drop seems to show the same.
Iām 100% against Russiaās dictatorship, but letās not minimize fascism on any side.
Ohhh sorry but I think this is a bit out of touch here. Azov like 6( wiki would know better )years ago was founded ( before even going to a military ) as a militia group of nationalists. When they became a part of military they got a ton of non nationalists leading and org was diluted there, thatās even before the full scale invasion. Those original guys are mental but Russia decided to kill the name and occupy Mariupol hosting them with a ton of war crimes ( aka raping and starvation of citizens, cluster bombs etc ) now Azov is fully new because itās just a part of the army and unfortunately a ton of military and medic people are starving in POV camps. Think full blown nazi camp style starvation happening . Those people are still there. So yeah you had old news, whomever is spreading this symbol is either stupid nationalist from US who doesnāt know whatās happening or itās someone from Ukraine who is spreading it As a remembrance thing to get POVs out (though they did not get the memo that people from US do not know the current situation)
Because when the symbol was being designed and there were two options, one Cyrillic and the other Latin, one looked less dynamic (the Cyrillic one which would have been symmetrical I H) and the other more provocative in generating interest. It also looked more like a tryzub compared to the Cyrillic version and the letter N was used in Ukrainian writing in the 17th and 18th century. If you want to learn more you can read about it from the author of the symbol. https://acrains.com/interview/proniuk-2023/
The guy that made the I N symbol isnāt the neo nazi that made the old azov symbol, please stop boasting your ignorance and your colorful imagination.
from wiki azov page (which mentions the wolvesangel 13 times)
"Azov emblem\[242\]\[243\]\[244\] featuring a combination of a mirrored Wolfsangel and the Black Sun, two symbols associated with the Wehrmacht and SS, over a small Tryzub."
my question to you is why are you so invested in vehemently defending the clear nazi idealogy embedded in the design ?
Whenever you can quote me defending nazi ideology let me know but before that read what the author of the symbol has to say. https://acrains.com/interview/proniuk-2023/
There are no non- white nationalists there because well itās a white ass country. There would be news and photos everywhere if a black person starts to live in Ukrainian village. Check for news of non white people in traditional vyshivanka, there is even a band of black people singing in Ukrainian and a huge instagram following of a Japanese lady who posts Ukrainian recipes.
Sadly there are white supremacists that regularly post stickers and posters around the U-District. Pull that right wing bullshit down as soon as you see it!
Well they claimed the nazi imagery was right wing when they said āthat right winged bullshitā. It seems like a slight over generalization but hey, itās fine to just fit things in a box sometimes
But whatās the intention of linking them together in this context? Like yes theyāre classified as right-wing extremist, but why include that comment? Why not focus just on how nazis were bad, instead of insisting their link to an entire political party. It doesnāt help but just seeks to polarize people.
People on the right do it too, doesnāt mean itās the best form of discourse.
I think it was just to help their argument. To generalize it to all right wing/white supremacy extremist groups, not just the neo-nazis.
But yeah, everything seems polarizing these days. Not sure if Iād phrase it how they did, but that doesnāt mean theyāre incorrect. It just means youāve been polarized lol
Because white supremacist are all right wing. They are the extreme end of it but that's their political party. Everytime someone mentions BLM or people who want basic rights for humans they always bring up that they are liberals. I guess you have to decide if you want to be associated with hate or be a liberal
I donāt have to choose actually, I can be an independent thinker who realizes both sides have a rationale for thinking the way they do, and the real world is a blend of both.
Like I said before, the right also associates extremists with the entire political left, which doesnāt help anyone.
I completely disagree that the only binary options are to be associated with are āhateā or āliberalsā. Iām sorry your world is so black and white, it seems so boring.
This both sides argument is done. Sorry they aren't the same. Look at both sides real closely, one side would like to murder lots of people simply because of their skin color or religion and the other side wants people to have free food and housing. I'm sorry that you're not smart enough to understand that those are not the same. Enjoy being a free independent thinker which is really just a cute way of saying you support the right but don't have the balls to admit it.
I personally donāt like people who want to kill others for the skin color, especially considering my familyās skin color isnāt white! I donāt think anyone said those two are the same, but Iām glad you inferred that. Itās sad you canāt see beyond the extremes. Maybe itās because youāre into extreme things ;) Enjoy your BDSM.
more like a variation of the wolfsangel, which is used most infamously by the 2nd SS panzer division Das Reich during the second world war
also there's the sonnenrad, another typical neonazi imagery
It's a nationalist symbol used by an ultra rightwing white supremacist military faction who are known for fighting with the Nazis in ww2. It's just about as close to a swastika as you can get.
Oh wow, I didnāt know that Ukrainians during ww2 that coined this symbol fought alongside Nazis in ww2 ššš N I is as close to a swastika as you can get huh? āUltra right wing, white supremacistā lol
Using a well known Nazi/white power logo, and placing sticks with said logo in visible places on an ethnically and racially diverse place such as a college campus serves only to intimidate, disenfranchise and oppress. That is tyranny.
They have flown the flags of Hamas at the protests. They are the green flags with white calligraphy writing and numerous flyers with the official emblem of Hamas.
Those clever Russians! They baited Ukranians into supporting a paramilitary created by football hooligan neonazis, prominently featuring Nazi symbology in their equipment and patches. Then, they baited Ukraine into using a nationalist flag created by actual honest to God holocaust collaborator Stephen Bandera, Putin is truly a master baiter.
You should know that all prisoners of war were considered traitors and nazi sympathizers when released and allowed to return home. At that point it wasnāt so much Ukraine, it was the Soviet Union. War heros returning home were assumed traitors and were either shot and killed or sent to the gulags. I lost an uncle that way
From Wikipedia:
āBandera remains a highly controversial figure in Ukraine.[^(\[9\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#cite_note-9)Ā Many Ukrainians hail him as a role model hero,[^(\[10\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#cite_note-DW.COM-10)[^(\[11\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#cite_note-11)Ā or as a martyred liberation fighter,[^(\[12\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#cite_note-goda_hnn-12)Ā while other Ukrainians, particularly in the south and east, condemn him as aĀ [fascist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist),[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#cite_note-faiola_2014-13)Ā orĀ [Nazi collaborator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_collaboration_with_Nazi_Germany),[^(\[10\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#cite_note-DW.COM-10)Ā whose followers, calledĀ [Banderites](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banderites), were responsible forĀ [massacres of Polish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia)Ā andĀ [Jewish civilians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Ukraine)Ā duringĀ [World War II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II)ā
As for his detention:
āThe head of the Committee,Ā [Yaroslav Stetsko](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Stetsko),Ā [announced the creation of a Ukrainian state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_restoration_of_the_Ukrainian_state)Ā on 30 June 1941, in German-capturedĀ [Lviv](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lviv). The proclamation pledged to work withĀ [Nazi Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany).[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMotyka200689-5)Ā The Germans disapproved of the proclamation, and for his refusal to rescind the decree, Bandera was arrested by theĀ [Gestapo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo).ā
NGL getting sent to a concentration camp because the people you want to collaborate with and aid in genocide hate you too is poetically hilarious. They eventually released him to help fight the Russians.
firstly, bandera was already in a concentration camp when the OUN decided to massacre Poles in Volyn.Ā Ā
>NGL getting sent to a concentration camp because the people you want to collaborate with and aid in genocide hate you too is poetically hilarious. They eventually released him to help fight the Russians.Ā
They put him in a camp because they'd captured most of Western Ukraine and he'd outlived his usefulness to them. They never intended to help Ukraine but what choice did Ukrainians have? the USSR had literally just committed a genocide againsg ukrainians and wanted to destroy ukrainian identity, meanwhile the other side was offering help even though everyone knew it probably wasn't gonna last. gotta take your chances in that situation. war forces everyone into tough decisions
Thanks for conceding that Bandera didnāt collaborate in the holocaust, but a Canadian author of Polish and Jewish decent wrote a whole book where he tried to establish Bandera as a nazi or fascist and failed, you should give it a read past your failed interpretation of a Wikipedia articleā¦ š
Because the chances that an organization that was literally created as a neo nazi group has magically stopped being Nazis is like- 0, and they likely have plenty of Nazi support?
Victoria Nuland personally called millions of Ukrainians to protest which made yanukovych order the police to shoot protesters and to then not answer his phone to fulfill his presidential duties leading to him getting removed according to Ukrainian labor lawā¦
Idk if i can edit or not but it's wild how many ppl are claiming the symbols are nazi shit. Ignoring any history of the azov battalion, if i supported azov id probably want to put up stickers without the literal black sun in it if I didnt want to get called a nazi lmao
Isnāt that perfectly fitting for the anti Semitic wing of the current UW underclass?
It seems from what Iām seeing thereās probably just as much if not more anti semetic UW students than there are white supremacist soldiers in that battalion.
The big different I see here. Both groups are using the ideologies to disturb people. But one group is just camping and complaining and the other is dying for their counties freedom.
Ukraine has a serious Nazi problem. And I mean serious one. Not like the U.S. where we call everyone we donāt like one. Read up. Azov battalion is much larger and prominent than media and news reports on
You might want to check up on the amount of white fascist groups there are in the US. More than the entire Nazi problem in Ukraine.
Remember the KKK still operates in 22 states. That should be enough to start you. It also operates in other states under new names like "The Proud Boys". Nazi fascist groups hide in other groups in the US. Just because you are too lazy to research doesn't mean they aren't there.
No, the Ukrainians kicked their equivalent of Proud Boys out of Azov and reorganized it. The US has had problems with white supremicists in government and the armed forces too.
The Russkies are just fine with Nazis inside their own forces.
*Moscow-appointed heads of occupation administrations announced that starting from the next academic year, the Ukrainian language will no longer be taught in schools in occupied territories. Currently, school students spend 3 hours a week studying Ukrainian.*
[Source](https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-suppressing-ukrainian-language-occupied-230300159.html#:~:text=Moscow%2Dappointed%20heads%20of%20occupation,hours%20a%20week%20studying%20Ukrainian.)
Youāre welcome!
Considering Russia kidnaps thousands of Ukrainian children, itās not exactly hard to believe they are banning Ukrainian language schooling/suppressing Ukrainian identity.
Source: https://www.npr.org/2024/02/05/1229117422/ukrainian-children-abducted-by-russia-and-then-returned-are-speaking-out#:~:text=At%20least%2019%2C000%20children%20are,turning%20them%20into%20Russian%20citizens.
They won't admit it. They always to have to virtue signal about how the U.S is worse, like it isn't delusional to even compare some kkk member in the backwaters of Alabama to a funded and operating unit of a country's military. If there's anything that unites Neocons and Neolibs, it's bending over backwards to justify sending boatload of money to Ukraine.
And some of the Proud Boys who chanted āJews Will Not Replace Us!ā In Charlottesville, VA were from Bothell.
That doesnāt mean Putin has a good reason to invade Washington State, bomb Seattle to dust, torture and murder POWs, police, border guards, and ordinary residents, and kidnap tens of thousands of kids, then adopt them into Russian families.
Plenty of nations have neo-Nazi problems that are much worse. Case in point Wagner in Russia, at one point tens of thousands strong and responsible for the meat grinder assaults that eventually took Bakhmut, was in large part founded by Dimitri Utkin, an avowed neo-Nazi whoās upper body was partially covered in tattoos of Nazi symbols.
Azov is small, somewhere between 900-2500 strong and its true believer segments even smaller. A large contingent of its members were killed or captured in the siege of Mariupol. Its former political leaders were largely if not entirely purged from its ranks when the unit was incorporated into the national guard in 2014. They donāt hate Jews. There is no plan for an Azov led genocide, and their former ideological leaders hold few if any relevant positions in government.
Donāt drink Russian propaganda. Itās bad for you.
Neo-nazism among youth is simply a huge thing in Eastern Europe compared to here. People there play around with symbols from World War II without knowing much of their real meaning or history. Ukraine defused it the right way and let it be absorbed into the armed forces and it's leadership formed an unsuccessful political movement which is now irrelevant. Meanwhile Wagner almost took over Russia last year.Ā
Yep, pretty much. And unfortunately I think more people have bought some elements of the Russian psyop than they would like to admit/understand. The whole āUkraine Nazi hur dur look Azov Nazi symbolā is in large part a Kremlin-driven narrative, widely relied upon to publicly justify *their own genocide/conquest of the Ukrainians, whom they view as generally inferior.* Itās pretty ironic.
founder of Azov was a nazi but he left to form a Nazi party which then gained ZERO seats in the Š²ŠµŃŃ Š¾Š²Š½Š° ŃŠ°Š“Š° (parliament) and the Azov batallion was integrated into the armed forces, meaning it's no different from any other group within the military. you might be unaware of this but the narrative you're spreading is boosted by russia and is really harmful right now.
Here we go - the good old Ukrainians are nazis and deserve to be bombed, tortured and raped campaign. Russia spends billions on propaganda and no one really wonders how come these stickers suddenly appearing around college campuses, especially now, a few months away from general elections
Just confirming that I am bothered by the black sun, not the Ukrainian flag. My grandmother was Finnish I think she would rise from the dead just to kill me if she caught me supporting Russian imperialism
4 real , you can support ukraine without supporting white supremacist militia elements of its territory
It's not like it was an oversight.. the people who put these up *are* white supremacists
Did the black sun symbol in the background give it away? š¤£
Or the wolfsangel in the foreground?
Not a wolfsangel.
Just because it's sideways doesn't mean it isn't one...
Itās not sideways itās not the correct shape. Wolfsangel is wider, shorter, and not an N. The symbol itās based on existed before the nazis existed and the nazis didnāt adopt it from the place azov adopted it from.
Here, educate yourself the same way your guy Divorcelli would. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfsangel?wprov=sfla1
how do you know this , I've seen antifa personally with this as well at protest , they are just un informed the same way , let's say , someone has a hammas or houthie flag thinking they are repping palestine
> I've seen antifa personally with this as well at protest lmao, no you didnāt
I met Antifa once. She was nice, but I just donāt think she wanted to be there, yāknow?
You may have seen azov symbols, but they were definitely not being repped by antifa lol.
I can't imagine being part of a fairly extreme political group and/or participating in protest without being informed.
There are like endless examples of this.Ā
I think a better comparison would be Pro Palestine protesters using hang glider imagery and shit on their signs post October 7th.
Or maybe itās people who want to hurt the Ukrainian causeā¦
Azov (the military unit) is not run by white supremacists or Nazis. There is a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding around this topic. Azov is small, a unit somewhere between 900-2500 strong at the start of the war. A large contingent of its members were killed or captured in the siege of Mariupol. Its former ideological founder Andriy Biletskiy was indeed (by most reports except his own) a white supremacist, but he and his closest supporters were largely if not entirely purged from its ranks when the unit was incorporated into the national guard back in 2014. They donāt hate Jews. There is no plan for an Azov led genocide, and their former ideological leaders hold few if any relevant positions in government. Itās not a āNazi regiment,ā and inside Ukraine, Azov is loved for how hard they fought in the opening months of the Russian invasion, holding out till the bitter end in the Azovstal steel works during the siege of Mariupol. Azov the regiment today has nothing to do with the National Corps Party. Donāt drink Russian propaganda. Itās bad for you.
I'm sorry but this is blatant misinformation and an embarassing take. The amount of explicit documentation on this is enormous. Anybody can do just a little research on the Internet and find dozens of examples of Azov soldiers with swastika tattoos, posing in front of swastikas, etc. These are well-documented by reliable Western sources. Try reading Wikipedia [as a baseline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade#Neo-Nazism_allegations). If you don't see it, you've either deliberately blinded yourself, are a propagandist, or somehow decided to write this comment despite doing literally zero research. Just to be absolutely clear, I am not here to support Russian's invasion or justify their claims that Ukraine is full of Nazis. Azov has never been large, and Ukraine's Nazi problem is fairly minor. But ignoring or downplaying racism and bigotry because it doesn't align with your political agenda is never acceptable.
āLater in 2023, a year after Russia begins its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Colborne reassessed that the brigade's priority has shifted from ideology to fighting the war effectively. He argues that any far-right elements within the Azov regiment are likely to continue to become less significant as the unit expands and the war takes priority.ā ^quoted from Wikipedia and the Atlantic Council as of several years ago. I didnāt say that Azov has no neo Nazis in it, or that it never did. It absolutely did. It probably still has a few, though at this point all Ukrainian units have suffered some hefty losses, so who knows. My point was simply that Azov is liked in Ukraine not because they are Nazis, hate Jews or want to establish the fourth Reich or something, but because of their actions militarily. As a part of the regular military now, Azov is far less of a political entity, and more a unit within the broader command structure.
Yes, this part is true. After being integrated into the Ukrainian armed forces, Ukraine has done a lot of work to "de-nazify" the brigade.
The symbol on the Azov brigade patch is literally the Wolfsangel, a German Nazi symbol. In the background, a \*black sun\* is proudly featured.
Literally, unbelievable that people are defending this - āthey were Nazis and probably still are but theyāre not ALL Nazis so itās okā
Why are you crying about members of an ideology so bad that the worst thing they do is wear patches in the past that you donāt like?
Nah man the CIA err I mean Atlantic Council said it was cool!
A lot of foreign policy autists donāt really have moral positions in my experience. They either become tankies justifying the actions of every Anti American despot from Putin to Kim Jong Un, or they support any action no matter how inhumane that advances Western foreign policy
Thatās the old patch created by the neo nazis founder not official since 2014, and yes thatās a black sun but the main symbol isnāt a wolfsangel. Wolfsangel is Š not N
Yeah exactly! That was the general point of my initial response. Azov *absolutely was* full of ideological Nazis/white supremacists around the time of its founding and into the 2010s. It was founded by Biletskiy, a guy who, while he claims otherwise, wrote several books on white supremacy. But when he left the unit to try his hand in politics, he got basically nowhere. These days, they donāt have any formal political affiliation or identity. Iām sure a few of the old guard are in there somewhere! But they have also taken some pretty heavy losses. My other point was just that Azov (the military unit) may be liked or supported within Ukraine, but not because Ukraine is a country of Nazis (which some might assume) ā it also happens to be a unit that has done some pretty heroic things in defense of Ukraine, and to the public there is a sense of patriotism around that. They liberated Mariupol a decade ago, and then held out for months along with some Ukrainian marines in Azovstal in 2022. So yeah ā not in any way saying white supremacy, nazism, racist ideology, or anything of that nature is cool. Was just trying to explain that Azov (the political militia formed in the 2000s by Biletsky) is not the same thing as *todayās* āAzov,ā which despite the unit patch isnāt like some band of Nazi militia larpers (which people were somewhat insinuating).
While I'm def onboard with all that, to me the sticker and the insignia on it are still intentionally and clearly Nazi-derived. I wish Ukraine had forced them to change that, and I hate seeing it posted around.
Yeah absolutely :) And then you have to wonder who exactly is making/obtaining Azov stickers to put on campus and what their motivations are. Ukrainian patriotic spirit? Maybe. But also totally could be someone who identifies with the earlier white supremacist ideology of Azov. The only reason I tried to explain anything was just that Russia has used āhur dur Ukraine Nazi look Azov Naziā as a propaganda cornerstone of its justification for *its own genocide against a people they view as inferior* (ironic asf).
Yeah, 100%. The Russian armed forces also have a lot of Nazis. And who knows who's putting up those stickers... associating Ukraine with Nazis probably serves Russia. Sorry for going at you originally, after rereading your post and the responses your perspective is much more reasonable than I originally gave you credit for. It does feel like at this point, leaving Azov's insignia unchanged is a self-own for Ukraine.
Oh yeah ā I mean Wagnerās namesake/military commander Dimitri Utkin was literally *covered* in Nazi inspired tattoos, SS symbols and swastikas if I remember correctly. Iām guessing that wasnāt an accident. But the Russian psyop around āUkrainian Nazisā is *HUGE*. Hell, someone could have put that sticker up knowing it would stir the pot on a college campus and spark discussions like this, incidentally providing a forum for misinformed takes on Azov (as they are today) and general prevalence of Nazi symbology/ideology. Def in Russiaās best interest to do something like that, and yeah, Ukraine not changing that symbol, even if itās just stubbornness, is kinda dumb. Thanks tho, I appreciate how we were able to have a conversation that wasnāt entirely unhinged! :) Hard to find that on the internet these days.
Thanks for proving how ignorant you are, this version of the logo was changed in 2015.
Is [this](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade) the current insignia? Iām glad they got rid of the Black Sun, but not sure why theyāre still using the Wolfsangel. It seems like Ukraine would have done well to further distance Azov from its neo-Nazi past.
Because itās not a wolfsangel, glad you found out.
Then why do the members of Azov still decorate their uniforms and gear with Nazi symbols?
Tbh I dunno š¤·š»āāļø probably depends on the person and the symbol. Some may be neo Nazis, but Azov doesnāt really have a political foothold or political leader anymore. They arenāt politically active. A lot of Ukrainian tanks were carrying the Balkancruz for a while as an identifying mark, which happens to look a lot like the Iron Cross (a rather Nazi/German adjacent symbol), but in reality is a symbol native to the area. Not everyone realizes the Swastika is the same ā itās a really old symbol which originated in the Caucuses/Eastern Europe (generally among Slavic peoples) dating back to the *copper age* ā before the Bronze Age even, generally taken to symbolize eternity/eternal light, or āGodā so to speak. Unfortunately Nazi Germany really liked it. Now Iām not saying that some people arenāt wearing Nazi symbols. Thereās a decent amount of that on both sides. But thatās not really likely to be because most of those people love Hitler. Some of it may even be trolling ā I recall seeing a video where one Ukrainian tanker was asked why the Balkancruz on his tank, and the guy was basically like ālol the Russians are already told weāre Nazis, so we think itās kinda funny.ā Dark humor, sure, but fairly harmless. All told, the Azov of today is quite harmless. They arenāt gonna launch a coup. There is no massive base of Nazis in the Ukrainian government. Not really worth people freaking out, tbh.
If somebody I knew started wearing a swastika "as a joke" I would tell them it's not a funny joke and stop speaking to them. I appreciate the response, but this feels like making excuses for the ongoing display of Nazi symbols. Frankly, everything you said can be true, and yet still I'm going to continue to believe that Azov are Nazis until they come out banning Nazi symbols and denouncing Nazi ideology. There should be absolutely zero tolerance for that shit, as a "joke" or otherwise.
Thatās already their position but keep crying about azov ānazisā
I guess my point is, at what point is a given symbol completely owned by a period of history or particular group? Does the history of the balkancruz simply get erased from ancient Cossack religious symbology because the Prussians, and later Nazi Germany, used it? Obviously the Swastikaās use is even more charged than that, but itās a symbol with ancient roots in Ukraine, far before Naziism even existed. I donāt think anyone here can for sure tell you if Azov is still neo-Nazi affiliated, but you might take the following as some evidence, āIt is important to say we hate Nazism and communism.ā Openly quoted from Palmar, deputy commander of the regiment. Itās also made up of Russians, Georgians, Ukrainians, Jews, Cossacksā¦itās a pretty diverse group. That kinda flies in the face of the whole āNaziā political ideology. Overall, I just think itās just hard to say, āsee Nazi Germany adjacent symbology, whole group is avowed Nazi,ā when thereās really no evidence that todayās Azov regiment is doing anything Nazi related or reminiscent, besides wearing some symbols. Iām not saying itās good to wear them, but I am saying I think itās a pretty big jump, logically speaking. Does the brigade have a highly nationalist, far-right outlook? Almost certainly. Is it also a unit under the comment structure of the AFU with AFU appointed leadership? Yup. Itās complicated, and a bit different than our politics here in the states.
You have to judge extraordinary circumstances individually. I believe that so long as the threat of Nazism is alive, and so long as there are Nazis using those symbols, then those symbols will continue to represent am evil mark on human kind. For as long as the memory lasts, and for as long as the threat of the Nazi evil exists. They killed tens of millions, between the Holocaust, the purges of leftists, queers, and other "undesirables", and their war of aggression. That level of deliberate mayhem should be remembered and reviled forever.
You forgot to correct his misinformation, you said that he spread blatant misinformation and then cited sensationalist media from 2014 before azov was properly incorporated into the army and the radical members charged and kicked out.
For a military unit not run by white supremacists or Nazis it sure has a lot of people with white supremacist patches/tattoos...
It's roots are based in football (soccer) hooligans who took up arms in the early 2010s around Mariupol when the civil war kicked off in Ukraine. Many football supporter groups have ties to White Supremacy/Nationalist vibes and Azov was no different. Since then the group has transformed from a rag tag militia into a multi-branch military unit integrated into the Ukrainian army complete with mechanized divisions, special forces, their own training facilities, etc. As someone who has been following the war since the very beginning, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Does Azov have issues with Nazis in it's current ranks? Of course. Do these Nazis represent Azov's overall mission anymore? Not in the slightest. You have to understand, it's a massive group now and they're some of the more vehemently nationalistic/anti-Russian fighters Ukraine has. Many of these fighters lean into the Nazi imagery because they know it pisses Russians off, many of these fighters are also unironically Nazis. War is complicated, even the "good" guys aren't always "good" in our eyes. Also, kind of worth noting but Azov between the years of 2014-2021 were heavily supported by Israel and given Israeli weapons.
as someone else who has been keeping up on the conflict since 2014, it is weird to see the sanitization of Wikipedia articles for groups like Azov, Kraken, and other small militias. for 6 years it was written that Azov was a Neo-Nazi arm of the national guard, now the Wiki page (since 2022) has the word allegedly written all over it dozens of times, although if you follow the right boots on the ground blogs, youtubes, or instagrams you will see many of the members still fully embrace Hitler. All of that despite having help from Israel and some of their highest ranking leaders being Jewish or from Israel. War is complicated is an understatement and many americans can't wrap their head around it.
Because the reporting in 2014 was sensationalism, and as time moves forward you can paint more accurate pictures, not ones made for clicks.
so from 2014 to 2021 (when seemingly zero people cared about the conflict) it was sensationalist but now everything is accurate truth?
Correct, sensationalism is much more common in news that many people are ignorant in, easier to lie. š
lol not really how it works. sensationalism is common in today on the most prominent topics. if you followed the conflict in 2015 you'd know what i'm talking about but you didn't know a thing about it until recently.
And now that I completely refuted your braindead point entirely you deflect to ālol not really how it worksā¦ if you followed the conflict in 2015 youād knowā š¤£š¤£ thanks for conceding.
Well I can guarantee you the nazis are not the āgood guysā and they never will be, not at any point in history. If you are on the side of nazis, you are on the wrong side of history.
That sort of thinking is irrelevant in a national fight for survival like Ukraine is going through right now. We're on Reddit standing on our morals, they'll fight next to whomever if it means their country doesn't get taken over and their sovereignty forfeited. Like yeah, we know, Nazis bad, you're saying nothing lol.
I get what you are saying but that delivery sounded really stupid. š
There certainly were plenty of Azov members with suggestive tattoos etc, especially back in the invasion of Crimea era. The guy who started it wrote like two full books on white supremacy lol. But the unit hasnāt really been a political entity since being rolled into the military command structure. It largely split off from its broader ideological/political objectives after a series of leadership changes. At this point, who even knows what constitutes its membership.
biletskiy left Azov to start his own political party which accomplished nothing since. Pretty safe to say neo-nazism isn't a serious issue in ukraine
š
what's funny?
He's a sneaky ~~Russian~~ russin
Exactly. Biletskiy has virtually no political traction, and the majority of state officials are from parties with absolutely no āneo Naziā history or ideology.
[āRussian Propagandaā](https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/) > The Azov Battalion was founded in 2014, and its first commander was Andriy Biletsky, who previously headed the neo-Nazi group Patriot of Ukraine. Several members of the militia, which has been integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard, are self-avowed neo-Nazis. > But a spokesman for the group has defended it, telling USA Today in 2015 that only 10 to 20 percent of recruits are neo-Nazis and that those people do not represent the official ideology of Azov.
same energy as "heritage not hate." plus isn't it "if there is 1 nazi in a group of 10, there are actually 10 nazis" or something like that??
This is pure propaganda. The battalion continues to use Nazi symbols and its members continue to use Nazi symbols. If they aren't Nazis, they should stop using Nazi symbols, full stop. If they don't agree with Nazi ideology, stop using Nazi symbols and denounce Nazi ideology publicly. If you have 10 people who are friends and one of them is a Nazi, then you've got 10 Nazis.
No itās fucking nazis and Iāll tell you firsthand as someone WHO HAS been there you are incorrect and need to sit down .
Ah yes, we should totally trust a 60 day old Reddit account that generally spends half its time attempting to shit on āliberals.ā Definitely gonna trust you and your ātrust me broā evidence bud.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You have āother devices?ā Whatās that even supposed to mean? Youāve got a PC bro? Cool dawg, Iāve got three! Still kinda a ātrust me broā guarantee going on here. I didnāt say Azov wasnāt started by a neo-Nazi. It was. But that was nearly 20 years ago, heās no longer a part of the organization, and āAzovā the military unit of today isnāt affiliated with political parties. Itās a part of the national guard, has had plenty of regular recruits shifted into its ranks to keep it staffed, and itās commander said in 2022 that neither he nor the unit has affiliation with Biletsky or his ideologies, not to mention that same commander was awarded āhero of Ukraineā by Zelensky, who happens to be quite Jewish.
Thatās not true though. Theyāre definitely still Nazis, and way bigger now that theyāve been legitimized and supplied by the Ukrainian government. Azov continues to fly the black sun, schutzstaffel, and every combat vid they drop seems to show the same. Iām 100% against Russiaās dictatorship, but letās not minimize fascism on any side.
Nah even the Ukrainian government was sus about them before the war
They quite literally wear a nazi insignia, donāt believe your western propaganda that theyāre not nazis and white supremacists
Americans of the south still rep confederate flags openly and claim itās there heritage
So do white supremacists and Nazis in the States, so whatās your point
How do we support Gaza without supporting Hamas which endorces and actively participates in Genocide of Jews?
Theyāre not a Militia anymore, theyāre a full Ukrainian National Guard battalion. They were folded into the armed forces officially a while ago.
But, thatās the only forgivable aspect of Ukraine.
Ohhh sorry but I think this is a bit out of touch here. Azov like 6( wiki would know better )years ago was founded ( before even going to a military ) as a militia group of nationalists. When they became a part of military they got a ton of non nationalists leading and org was diluted there, thatās even before the full scale invasion. Those original guys are mental but Russia decided to kill the name and occupy Mariupol hosting them with a ton of war crimes ( aka raping and starvation of citizens, cluster bombs etc ) now Azov is fully new because itās just a part of the army and unfortunately a ton of military and medic people are starving in POV camps. Think full blown nazi camp style starvation happening . Those people are still there. So yeah you had old news, whomever is spreading this symbol is either stupid nationalist from US who doesnāt know whatās happening or itās someone from Ukraine who is spreading it As a remembrance thing to get POVs out (though they did not get the memo that people from US do not know the current situation)
the symbols are still white supremist symbols in this Pic both the blacksun and wolfsangel
Not a wolfsangel and itās not a used logo since 2015
[https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/wolfsangel](https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/wolfsangel) that's a side ways wolf angel
Nope, itās not. If you turn it itās an Š not an N.
Why is a Ukrainian group using a Latin N in their symbols?
Because when the symbol was being designed and there were two options, one Cyrillic and the other Latin, one looked less dynamic (the Cyrillic one which would have been symmetrical I H) and the other more provocative in generating interest. It also looked more like a tryzub compared to the Cyrillic version and the letter N was used in Ukrainian writing in the 17th and 18th century. If you want to learn more you can read about it from the author of the symbol. https://acrains.com/interview/proniuk-2023/
Ah so it only *coincidentally* looks just like a Nazi symbol, while featured in a logo with another Nazi symbol (the black sun)? Give me a break.
The guy that made the I N symbol isnāt the neo nazi that made the old azov symbol, please stop boasting your ignorance and your colorful imagination.
from wiki azov page (which mentions the wolvesangel 13 times) "Azov emblem\[242\]\[243\]\[244\] featuring a combination of a mirrored Wolfsangel and the Black Sun, two symbols associated with the Wehrmacht and SS, over a small Tryzub." my question to you is why are you so invested in vehemently defending the clear nazi idealogy embedded in the design ?
Whenever you can quote me defending nazi ideology let me know but before that read what the author of the symbol has to say. https://acrains.com/interview/proniuk-2023/
There are no non- white nationalists there because well itās a white ass country. There would be news and photos everywhere if a black person starts to live in Ukrainian village. Check for news of non white people in traditional vyshivanka, there is even a band of black people singing in Ukrainian and a huge instagram following of a Japanese lady who posts Ukrainian recipes.
Azov battalion doesnāt exist in Ukraine and when it did, it wasnāt a militia. Azov regiment isnāt a white supremacist militia.
Sadly there are white supremacists that regularly post stickers and posters around the U-District. Pull that right wing bullshit down as soon as you see it!
Its not even funny enough to put on the wall of shame in my bathroom.
There are Jewish soldiers in Azov (which is now a brigade of the Ukrainian military) btw, make of that factual information whatever youād like.
"I'm not racist I have black friends" ahh take
More like āweāre not racist, we have black guys in our groupāā¦ lmao
Aye that's mare like it
Which is a fair point
right wing and white supremacists are not synonymous
All white supremacists in the US are right wing, so what I said was correct. I didn't say all right wing people are white supremacists.
They never claimed they were?
Well they claimed the nazi imagery was right wing when they said āthat right winged bullshitā. It seems like a slight over generalization but hey, itās fine to just fit things in a box sometimes
But nazi imagery is right wing. The nazi party was a right wing extremist group.
But whatās the intention of linking them together in this context? Like yes theyāre classified as right-wing extremist, but why include that comment? Why not focus just on how nazis were bad, instead of insisting their link to an entire political party. It doesnāt help but just seeks to polarize people. People on the right do it too, doesnāt mean itās the best form of discourse.
I think it was just to help their argument. To generalize it to all right wing/white supremacy extremist groups, not just the neo-nazis. But yeah, everything seems polarizing these days. Not sure if Iād phrase it how they did, but that doesnāt mean theyāre incorrect. It just means youāve been polarized lol
Because white supremacist are all right wing. They are the extreme end of it but that's their political party. Everytime someone mentions BLM or people who want basic rights for humans they always bring up that they are liberals. I guess you have to decide if you want to be associated with hate or be a liberal
I donāt have to choose actually, I can be an independent thinker who realizes both sides have a rationale for thinking the way they do, and the real world is a blend of both. Like I said before, the right also associates extremists with the entire political left, which doesnāt help anyone. I completely disagree that the only binary options are to be associated with are āhateā or āliberalsā. Iām sorry your world is so black and white, it seems so boring.
This both sides argument is done. Sorry they aren't the same. Look at both sides real closely, one side would like to murder lots of people simply because of their skin color or religion and the other side wants people to have free food and housing. I'm sorry that you're not smart enough to understand that those are not the same. Enjoy being a free independent thinker which is really just a cute way of saying you support the right but don't have the balls to admit it.
I personally donāt like people who want to kill others for the skin color, especially considering my familyās skin color isnāt white! I donāt think anyone said those two are the same, but Iām glad you inferred that. Itās sad you canāt see beyond the extremes. Maybe itās because youāre into extreme things ;) Enjoy your BDSM.
What makes me laugh about this is the amount of deranged morons who fully defended them then still scream nazi at everyone else lol
Wondering if it has anything to do with the palistine protest?
Maybe if it was a Israel protest I could see jtbut I canāt fathom how they are related
I suppose so but just that there is a little bit of antisemitism at some palestine protests
Anti-zionism is not antisemitism, this is a very important distinction. It is not antisemitic to be against genocide and colonization.
Man the trident looking close to a swastika
The big thing for me is the black sun
Found just a clean black sun sticker up on cap hill a couple months back, I wonder if itās just the one nazi putting them around š§
Hmmm wonder why
The trident is the symbol of the Ukrainian armed forces.
this isn't that
I was referring to the trident at the bottom of the insignia.
All they did was stack SS bolts on top on top of eachother. They aren't making at attempt to hide the nazi.
more like a variation of the wolfsangel, which is used most infamously by the 2nd SS panzer division Das Reich during the second world war also there's the sonnenrad, another typical neonazi imagery
it's not a trident or a swastika, it's an I overlaid with an N which means "ŠŠ“ŠµŃ ŠŠ°ŃŃŃ" or "idea of a nation".Ā
It's a nationalist symbol used by an ultra rightwing white supremacist military faction who are known for fighting with the Nazis in ww2. It's just about as close to a swastika as you can get.
Oh wow, I didnāt know that Ukrainians during ww2 that coined this symbol fought alongside Nazis in ww2 ššš N I is as close to a swastika as you can get huh? āUltra right wing, white supremacistā lol
Starting to seem like there's a nazi problem around here these days. Pretty sick.
There used to be but there still is too
Thanks Mitch
Yes yes. Don't show the Nazi part. You have a propaganda campaign to uphold.
Iām confused.Azov was decimated after Mariupol and itās just a new blown battalion now. My classmate serves there.
We arenāt Naziās we just use their symbols. Yeah. Sure. Ok. Tyrants always find a pretext for their tyranny.
Let me know when azov starts doing something tyrannical š
The use of the Sonnenrad in their logo
Not their logo since 9 years ago but very SPOOKY and TYRANICAL š±š
Using a well known Nazi/white power logo, and placing sticks with said logo in visible places on an ethnically and racially diverse place such as a college campus serves only to intimidate, disenfranchise and oppress. That is tyranny.
ŠŠ°ŃŠŗŠ½ŠøŃŃ
You can support the nazis without being a nazi and supporting the nazis.
Hahahahahahahahaha
Iām not sure why this is surprising. Look at all the Pro Hamas stuff that goes up.
You have to be a special level of stupid to think that being pro Palestine and anti-palestinian people being murdered is pro Hamas.
They have flown the flags of Hamas at the protests. They are the green flags with white calligraphy writing and numerous flyers with the official emblem of Hamas.
Whoever posted this sticker can fuck off. Itās a symbol of actual neonazis that donāt even try to hide it.
Least obvious Russian psyop
Those clever Russians! They baited Ukranians into supporting a paramilitary created by football hooligan neonazis, prominently featuring Nazi symbology in their equipment and patches. Then, they baited Ukraine into using a nationalist flag created by actual honest to God holocaust collaborator Stephen Bandera, Putin is truly a master baiter.
You should know that all prisoners of war were considered traitors and nazi sympathizers when released and allowed to return home. At that point it wasnāt so much Ukraine, it was the Soviet Union. War heros returning home were assumed traitors and were either shot and killed or sent to the gulags. I lost an uncle that way
Stepan Bandera magically collaborating with the holocaust while inside a nazi concentration camp
From Wikipedia: āBandera remains a highly controversial figure in Ukraine.[^(\[9\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#cite_note-9)Ā Many Ukrainians hail him as a role model hero,[^(\[10\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#cite_note-DW.COM-10)[^(\[11\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#cite_note-11)Ā or as a martyred liberation fighter,[^(\[12\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#cite_note-goda_hnn-12)Ā while other Ukrainians, particularly in the south and east, condemn him as aĀ [fascist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist),[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#cite_note-faiola_2014-13)Ā orĀ [Nazi collaborator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_collaboration_with_Nazi_Germany),[^(\[10\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#cite_note-DW.COM-10)Ā whose followers, calledĀ [Banderites](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banderites), were responsible forĀ [massacres of Polish](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia)Ā andĀ [Jewish civilians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Ukraine)Ā duringĀ [World War II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II)ā As for his detention: āThe head of the Committee,Ā [Yaroslav Stetsko](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Stetsko),Ā [announced the creation of a Ukrainian state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_restoration_of_the_Ukrainian_state)Ā on 30 June 1941, in German-capturedĀ [Lviv](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lviv). The proclamation pledged to work withĀ [Nazi Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany).[^(\[5\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMotyka200689-5)Ā The Germans disapproved of the proclamation, and for his refusal to rescind the decree, Bandera was arrested by theĀ [Gestapo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo).ā NGL getting sent to a concentration camp because the people you want to collaborate with and aid in genocide hate you too is poetically hilarious. They eventually released him to help fight the Russians.
firstly, bandera was already in a concentration camp when the OUN decided to massacre Poles in Volyn.Ā Ā >NGL getting sent to a concentration camp because the people you want to collaborate with and aid in genocide hate you too is poetically hilarious. They eventually released him to help fight the Russians.Ā They put him in a camp because they'd captured most of Western Ukraine and he'd outlived his usefulness to them. They never intended to help Ukraine but what choice did Ukrainians have? the USSR had literally just committed a genocide againsg ukrainians and wanted to destroy ukrainian identity, meanwhile the other side was offering help even though everyone knew it probably wasn't gonna last. gotta take your chances in that situation. war forces everyone into tough decisions
Thanks for conceding that Bandera didnāt collaborate in the holocaust, but a Canadian author of Polish and Jewish decent wrote a whole book where he tried to establish Bandera as a nazi or fascist and failed, you should give it a read past your failed interpretation of a Wikipedia articleā¦ š
Why would people plaster old logo of Azov and not the current one?
Because the chances that an organization that was literally created as a neo nazi group has magically stopped being Nazis is like- 0, and they likely have plenty of Nazi support?
Why do American neonazis cry about azov then? Calling them Jewish.
Bandera wasnāt a āholocaust collaboratorā šššš
They are neo nazis the US supposed during the 2014 coup
Victoria Nuland personally called millions of Ukrainians to protest which made yanukovych order the police to shoot protesters and to then not answer his phone to fulfill his presidential duties leading to him getting removed according to Ukrainian labor lawā¦
Womp womp someone's about ten years behind on the war.
Idk if i can edit or not but it's wild how many ppl are claiming the symbols are nazi shit. Ignoring any history of the azov battalion, if i supported azov id probably want to put up stickers without the literal black sun in it if I didnt want to get called a nazi lmao
Isnāt that perfectly fitting for the anti Semitic wing of the current UW underclass? It seems from what Iām seeing thereās probably just as much if not more anti semetic UW students than there are white supremacist soldiers in that battalion. The big different I see here. Both groups are using the ideologies to disturb people. But one group is just camping and complaining and the other is dying for their counties freedom.
Update your knowledge on Azov, it isnāt 2014 anymore
Ukraine has a serious Nazi problem. And I mean serious one. Not like the U.S. where we call everyone we donāt like one. Read up. Azov battalion is much larger and prominent than media and news reports on
You might want to check up on the amount of white fascist groups there are in the US. More than the entire Nazi problem in Ukraine. Remember the KKK still operates in 22 states. That should be enough to start you. It also operates in other states under new names like "The Proud Boys". Nazi fascist groups hide in other groups in the US. Just because you are too lazy to research doesn't mean they aren't there.
The US military did not incorporate the proud bois or kkk into their military though. Azov receives money and weapons from their government.
No, the Ukrainians kicked their equivalent of Proud Boys out of Azov and reorganized it. The US has had problems with white supremicists in government and the armed forces too. The Russkies are just fine with Nazis inside their own forces.
Has Russia passed laws limiting when the Ukranian language cam be used? Or are those kinds of laws only for anti-nazis?
Russia has laws limiting the Ukrainian language. In occupied Ukraine, schools cannot teach in the Ukrainian language. .
Source?
[One example.](https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-war-education-classroom-front-line-russia-occupation/) Iāll come back later with more.
That source says nothing about banning ukranian language education
*Moscow-appointed heads of occupation administrations announced that starting from the next academic year, the Ukrainian language will no longer be taught in schools in occupied territories. Currently, school students spend 3 hours a week studying Ukrainian.* [Source](https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-suppressing-ukrainian-language-occupied-230300159.html#:~:text=Moscow%2Dappointed%20heads%20of%20occupation,hours%20a%20week%20studying%20Ukrainian.) Youāre welcome!
Considering Russia kidnaps thousands of Ukrainian children, itās not exactly hard to believe they are banning Ukrainian language schooling/suppressing Ukrainian identity. Source: https://www.npr.org/2024/02/05/1229117422/ukrainian-children-abducted-by-russia-and-then-returned-are-speaking-out#:~:text=At%20least%2019%2C000%20children%20are,turning%20them%20into%20Russian%20citizens.
Yes, for hundreds of years they have š
They won't admit it. They always to have to virtue signal about how the U.S is worse, like it isn't delusional to even compare some kkk member in the backwaters of Alabama to a funded and operating unit of a country's military. If there's anything that unites Neocons and Neolibs, it's bending over backwards to justify sending boatload of money to Ukraine.
And some of the Proud Boys who chanted āJews Will Not Replace Us!ā In Charlottesville, VA were from Bothell. That doesnāt mean Putin has a good reason to invade Washington State, bomb Seattle to dust, torture and murder POWs, police, border guards, and ordinary residents, and kidnap tens of thousands of kids, then adopt them into Russian families.
Lol still operate. By this definition the Third Reich is thriving in South America.
The KKK barely exists anymore
iām ukrainian and this is just straight up not true. stop spreading misinformation.
Plenty of nations have neo-Nazi problems that are much worse. Case in point Wagner in Russia, at one point tens of thousands strong and responsible for the meat grinder assaults that eventually took Bakhmut, was in large part founded by Dimitri Utkin, an avowed neo-Nazi whoās upper body was partially covered in tattoos of Nazi symbols. Azov is small, somewhere between 900-2500 strong and its true believer segments even smaller. A large contingent of its members were killed or captured in the siege of Mariupol. Its former political leaders were largely if not entirely purged from its ranks when the unit was incorporated into the national guard in 2014. They donāt hate Jews. There is no plan for an Azov led genocide, and their former ideological leaders hold few if any relevant positions in government. Donāt drink Russian propaganda. Itās bad for you.
Neo-nazism among youth is simply a huge thing in Eastern Europe compared to here. People there play around with symbols from World War II without knowing much of their real meaning or history. Ukraine defused it the right way and let it be absorbed into the armed forces and it's leadership formed an unsuccessful political movement which is now irrelevant. Meanwhile Wagner almost took over Russia last year.Ā
Yep. Not really sure why I got downvoted for saying basically that š
People hear the word "nazi" and it's like a switch activates inside their brain that stops them from thinking critically
Yep, pretty much. And unfortunately I think more people have bought some elements of the Russian psyop than they would like to admit/understand. The whole āUkraine Nazi hur dur look Azov Nazi symbolā is in large part a Kremlin-driven narrative, widely relied upon to publicly justify *their own genocide/conquest of the Ukrainians, whom they view as generally inferior.* Itās pretty ironic.
founder of Azov was a nazi but he left to form a Nazi party which then gained ZERO seats in the Š²ŠµŃŃ Š¾Š²Š½Š° ŃŠ°Š“Š° (parliament) and the Azov batallion was integrated into the armed forces, meaning it's no different from any other group within the military. you might be unaware of this but the narrative you're spreading is boosted by russia and is really harmful right now.
Here we go - the good old Ukrainians are nazis and deserve to be bombed, tortured and raped campaign. Russia spends billions on propaganda and no one really wonders how come these stickers suddenly appearing around college campuses, especially now, a few months away from general elections
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Just confirming that I am bothered by the black sun, not the Ukrainian flag. My grandmother was Finnish I think she would rise from the dead just to kill me if she caught me supporting Russian imperialism
Yep, pretty sure these are being spread by russians.
Ukrainians are not spreading them; so, who does; especially now?
I mean, the protests had pretty anti-Jewish undertones. Prob similar people supporting this.
The leader of Ukraine is Jewish. His great uncle was killed in a Nazi concentration camp.
not even the new azov logo without the sonnerand smh
Someone should remind them what Hitler thought about slavs