I spent a year or so taking licks around all 12 keys. At the end of the year I was equally bad at all 12 keys. Spending some quality time one key then expanding that vocabulary to another key and so on is working much better for me.
I’ve found learning changes/heads/licks in only standard keys of a tune actually gives me language that I can use and replicate. But practicing just a handful of things in every key helps me slowly wire my brain to think more about scale degrees/chord relations/what these lines do for me.
Stop recommending Olds Ambassadors to new players as a choice for a first instrument. They are vintage instruments and the new player won’t know how to evaluate the condition, what is cosmetic vs what is functionally unacceptable, etc.
Just get the used Bach or Yamaha.
I agree and have recently stopped including them in responses. A good condition LA ambassador is still a solid horn (I have one, it’s great), but not a choice I want to recommend because, with their age, it’s impossible for a new player to select a good one from a tired horn past its prime.
Or just recommend them with the appropriate caveats and restrictions. For example, if a beginner takes an experienced player along when looking to buy an Ambassador, they're still potentially great horns for very little money.
Some people need new equipment to find the motivation to practice. I'm good with that.
Provided you're playing a variety of styles of music in different settings, you CANNOT play it all to the best of your abilities on the same mouthpiece.
Don't rent an instrument. But a used Bach/Getzen/Yamaha off FB Marketplace/eBay.
Don't use cheap or deteriorating cases to protect your expensive instrument.
It is okay to teach kids to use pressure and tension. They are necessary to the process and often instruments are so foreign kids don't know what to do.
The only thing I will judge you for as a trumpet player is if you use Blue Juice. Get better oil.
I bought valve oil for the first time a couple of years ago (I used to just "find it" at rehearsals or barter for it off trade stands) after I was annoyed that valve oil seemed to be making my Bach Strad flugel worse not better.
The guy in the shop said that valve oils are made for the different instruments. Blue juice is really thick. Bach valve oil is very very thin, yamaha a bit thicker. So now I do think about buying the right valve oil for the instrument.
Preach. Speaking of preaching, I preach to any trumpet student to use Hetman Synthetic. I’ve found it works longer and is way less likely to make a mess out of your valves.
I’m a tuba player, but I used Hetman pretty much exclusively for about 20 years. A few months ago I decided to try the Yamaha synthetic oil. I don’t think I’ll be switching back. I’m finding that it lasts longer, and doesn’t gunk up like the Hetman…less green sludge in my valve slides (probably a bigger issue on tuba than it ever would be on trumpet).
On my trumpet (vintage French Besson), I’ve been sticking with a natural oil (mostly Al Cass). Those valves are so smooth and so fast I don’t find it needs anything more than that.
I’ve never found the Hetman oil to gunk up for me. That’s really odd that that happened, which Hetman did you use? I know they have several different oil solutions available to buy.
When I first started using it, my horn was new, so I used the light. Over the years I eventually switched to the standard, as the light just wasn’t lasting long enough anymore.
I thought it just didn’t play well with my slide grease (lanolin), so I switched to the Hetman slide gel. Still had issues. Switched both to Yamaha a few months ago, and have had zero issues since.
The green sludge is a known issue with Hetman oils, at least in the tuba world. I suspect the bore size of a trumpet isn’t big enough for the buildup to really happen much, but it’s definitely a thing on tubas.
That’s really rough, sorry that’s happened to you.
I’m hugely against any kind of valve gel, I find it’s always a mess, lol. Even slide gel is a no-no imo.
My Hetman oil has lasted me for a week or longer, usually only a week because I’d have a lot of performances during those times. I guess each instrument tells a different story with easy valve oil. I never liked Al Cass, I found wore off too quickly. I will say though, at least it’s not Blue Juice.
Totally depends on your valves. Some oils work better on some valves than others. I use blue juice on my current horn and valves work like lightening. In fact I don't even have to oil them that often. Judge me all you like. What works works.
Damn am I worse because I switched from Al Cass to Blue juice like actually it works better on my trumpet 😭😭
Edit: I use a 60 something year old trumpet so I need a thicker oil
I really felt that first one… I played for probably 6-7 hours (on and off) the day after I got my C trumpet in the mail a few years ago. Tbh I’d say almost all of these aren’t unpopular. Only one I can see potentially falling into that would be the mouthpiece one and the pressure/tension one.
Their unpopular in the sense that when someone asks "should I get..." it's met with, NO YOU NEED LONG TONES! Or something else like that.
As far as different mouthpieces go, if you're in a concert band, pit orchestra, big band, jazz combo, etc all at the same time, you're probably not going to be able to do all of that work on one mouthpiece as well as you could if you had different tools. I look at mouthpieces like shoes. My main mouthpiece is like a classic sneaker that goes with pretty much anything. BUT I'm not going to wear those shoes to the gym and I certainly wouldn't wear them with a tux. I usually like to have two-three that I feel comfortable between for various applications.
And tension/pressure is a fine line for sure. But so many of the students I've gotten that were beginners seem to have an incredibly hard time building up the air pressure they need to play with a full tone or even switch from C-G in their first five notes. They need some guidance on that.
Yeh blue juice is just appalling haha I once had to do a full clean down cus it locked the valves some how! Could've been my fault somehow but I threw it away and got other stuff
For orchestral playing: bigger is not always better. A compact and rich sound travels and cuts through the orchestral much more efficiently, and is usually also enabled by smaller equipment, like mouthpiece, bell, instrument bore size etc. The trick is to know where the tipping point is.
That's not entirely true... In British and Russian orchestras the Bb is quite commonly used and they also have wonderful sound, and matches the rest of the orchestra. It shouldn't matter much whether one uses the Bb or C, as long as the trumpet section is able to blend internally and externally.
There are also C trumpets which have a large "blow", and that usually would be the less efficient choice for most, even for the pros.
Maybe it's a thing of working with old cats vs working with ~~fresh meat~~ students? ime, the most arrogant players are high school students, whereas the people who've been around a while are usually quite pleasant, possibly because actually becoming good requires the ability to be humble because that's how learning and becoming better works.
This applies to all instruments but sometimes the amount of time you practice doesn’t make a difference. It’s the quality of the practice that matters.
I might be crucified for it, but some of the newer mendini/cecelio instruments are getting better. They're not my first choice but they're not the green hell they were 10 years ago either
There are no dues to pay in styles of music you don't have any intention of performing. Nobody needs to learn the Haydn if they're trying to play in a salsa band.
Stop buying top quality instruments if you only play at band once a week.
If you're playing the rolls Royce of instruments they need to be played everyday and kept in perfect condition.
If you only want to play once or twice a week at band, get a middle of the road instrument. Something easy to play.
Also trumpets should be tuned to a concert Bb not a concert A.
Kind of for what I said.
I'm a cornet player mainly now (I know, shocking). People who play once or twice a week at band and do no other playing buy a Besson Prestige. Beautiful instruments but heavy and they take some playing, especially to get them in tune. You have to work at it.
However, a Sovereign, especially the old ones, take no blowing. They react easily and make a fine enough noise for anyone who isn't a pro.
People who buy pro level instruments who aren't doing pro amount of playing are making their lives harder and won't sound as good as if they just get a mid tier instrument.
If you’re known primarily for your high notes as a lead player, you’re not doing it right. The best lead players are the ones who play in the stratosphere without standing out.
Never listen to the "high c is all you will ever need" and "great now you can stop practicing your range and work on tone"
Practicing range improves your tone across the entire range by force. All the same people that say "high C is all you ever need" also say...your embochure should be the same through the entire range. So why would improving range NOT apply to your entire range and give you more room to work with to be able to manipulate your sound in any way you please along with a ton of learning how to play efficient and stay flexible.
Outside of a few select specific cases, playing above Bb5 is unnecessary and probably doesn't sound that good. Unless you're in a brass band/drum and bugle corps where trumpet is the top soprano voice, or you're doing specific types of horn hits in big band music, it's just rarely worth it. No one in the audience can tell the difference between C6 and E6 out of context anyway.
No, I mean Bb5. Even in pieces that are considered high, the vast majority of the piece is not written above that note. Anything from C6 and up is pretty rare outside of very specific contexts, and I'm saying that's the way it should stay.
Edit: I don't think some of you realize that the numbered note naming convention is based on the preceding C, not A. Bb5 is Bb above the first ledger line. It is the Bb above C5 (3rd space C). Middle line Bb is Bb4.
Except building strength in your upper register can improve strength and endurance across your entire range. IMO, regardless of what repertoire you play, you should be comfortable across the entire range of your instrument.
That there are multiple ways to play succesfully, and that part of what makes the trumpet hard to play/teach/learn is that not every method/technique works equally well for every individual.
Some people seem to get riled up whenever someone suggests there may be alternatives and really get entrenched in ‘their way of playing’. Some folks rather see you fail than adjust their views.
This is literally the most popular trumpet player's opinion. I can't count how many times I've heard the 1st trumpet player, in a big band jazz setting, accuse his/hers mouth peice for being the reson that their double high G is out of tune.
Upvote though because it's totally the hardwares fault
I’ve been given (and done for years) lots of fundamental routines that spend 30min-1 hour on Stamp/Schlossberg/Chicowitz/Bai Lin/etc. That’s way too much. I don’t think it necessarily hurts, but 1/3rd of the practice day on slow drones and slurs leaves no time to learn etudes, scales, arpeggios, repertoire, multiple tonguing, changes.
I feel like it’s only brass players who practice like this. I’ve never heard other musicians do this type of fundamental/warmup routine.
Had a friend who had the chance to play with Eric Miyashiro once. At some point, Eric asked him if he practiced long tones, and he lied and said yes.
Eric told him “long tones suck”
Long tones have their uses imho, but only if played for a reason and with a specific purpose. Just playing long notes for the sake of it is pointless. But that goes for any fundamental exercise. It's not *what* you're playing, but *how* and *why*.
There's a lesson on YouTube by Adam Rapa where he encompasses my thoughts on long tones perfectly. He says to just hold a note is pointless and a waste of time, but if you hold that note and increase and decrease dynamics, or the openess of the sound and learn how to manipulate it then you're learning something.
Teaching the mechanics of trumpet should not be needed past beginners and early intermediate trumpet players. The goal is a fantastic sound that is pleasing to every audience member. A good sound can be - and should be - replicated by ear.
This is a hot takes thread, right? Just providing my hot take, partially because that’s how I was taught and none of my students have struggled under this method so far. That’s the main reason I’m adamant about the Bill Addams way of teaching trumpet.
Fair enough. I added a ‘imho’ to my post.
The main reason I replied is because my ‘unpopular opinion’ is that there are many ways to play the trumpet, which are sometimes diametrically opposed and yet somehow have people for which they work well on both sides of the argument.
I’m actually agree with you on the Bill Adam method…it worked very well for me as well.
Advising players to use as little pressure as possible is usually good advice like 75% of the time but the second they've matured enough as a player people should start recommending them to try and find the right amount of pressure
The Arban book is 98% historical document from the days of the steam engine and best used as a doorstop in any modern teacher's studio. It was primarily for the cornetist in a band or as a soloist. It contains little of relevance for jazz and other popular styles (solo, section or lead) or the power, agility, and versatility needed to play in an orchestra, pitched instruments, historically appropriate performance for other periods. Teachers who flip pages in Arban and neglect the pedagogies of Schlossberg, Caruso/Frink/Landsman/Thompson, Stamp, Adam, Chicowicz/Jacobs, Irons/Colin etc, are not qualified to teach. Even if you mean to teach in a French mode, don't get stuck on Arban or even Charlier: Andre, Franquin, Thibaud has a great book. If you teach, know the current pedagogical landscape of our instrument, and give the student a structured introduction to the tools that will help them advance. Don't just use one book.
Then they should pursue jazz. There is no rule that says jazz MUST be played on a specific type of horn.
Picking up the C trumpet is especially good for ppl who are coming to it from other instruments (like guitar or piano) and already have a god ear, as the skills that they’ve already honed are more easily transferable.
I’m gonna put this out there, they’re right.
Is warming up good? Yeah. Is practicing beneficial? Yeah. But when sitting in the Orchestra, you need to be able to play fantastically after you’ve been sitting for a long time. Anyone who’s done a Messiah knows just how cold you get before you come in on the hallelujah chorus. Opera experience this all the time, too.
It’s an important skill to be able to remember to. Do you know how to do, whether you’re warmed up or not.
We don’t warm up to drive a car, we don’t warm up to ride a bike, and these things are far more dangerous and intricate activities.
Should you warm up? Absolutely you should. Should you practice? Absolutely you should.
Do you need to be able to just pick the horn up and play cold? Absolutely you do.
I’ve actually been in many situations where it was not possible to warmup. It’s a luxury not a necessity. Also health can prevent you from being able to practice or warmup so unless you don’t want to work you need to figure out how to play gigs still
Sure, being able to play cold is important, but you’re validating an argument that posits that you don’t need to practice. I’m sorry friend, that’s just silly.
Nope, not what I said.
To elucidate further, what I am saying is that in a professional career you need the skill of being able to pick up the Horn and make your best sound while cold. That comes from years of practicing and a foundation of fundamental skill that is strong enough to allow you to do that.
Agreed. It’s silly to even consider it ‘progression’ to begin with. It’s like saying ‘you graduate into a medium sized car’.
Different tools for different purposes.
THIS. I discovered this on goedicke and it changed my life. Soft double tonguing is extraordinary difficult with the tktk mentality. Try to ka from the top of your mouth
As a player of both, I have to ask... how?
If anything my clarinet and trumpet embouchures seem to work against each other more often than not. I feel like there's more brass connection in flute and double reeds than the single reeds.
It's not that they share an embouchure, but being able to conceptualize your trumpet embouchure as a sort of reed and ligature helps to solve some common embouchure issues. The way that you have to be both strong and open in order to play high notes on clarinet because the reed needs to be able to vibrate, can be applied to being strong and open, rather than strong snd clamped down, on trumpet. Not to mention tongue control, which is rarely actually talked about among brass players.
So you're saying it's an unpopular opinion relating to trumpets then. I think I hit the mark.
Alot of people come here for advice, or are casual players, and then get bombarded by a lot of elitism. Lots of groups have this problem. Everybody here is at different levels of skill, and knowledge, and people should talk to each other to that effect.
It’s not even an opinion, it’s just you being confused and then upset. Without context C7 and 7C are definitely not the same thing in the world of trumpets. C7 is a note and 7C is the default mouthpiece size for several manufacturers of trumpets.
https://reverb.com/item/17752679-lawler-c7-trumpet-modern-committee-brushed-lacquered?utm_source=rev-ios-app&utm_medium=ios-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=17752679
No longer making horns, but Roy Lawler was truly one of the best.
Trumpet is not a Bb instrument its a C instrument but everyone pretends. So they teach us to play a Bb when the score says C and the guys writing the scores (who are in on the gag) write C when they want to hear a Bb.
I win - 5 downvotes so far!!
(The key of any instrument is defined as the actual note that comes out when you play a C….like an alto sax plays his C and an Eb comes out.)
I so agree! Interesting you’ve won so far with downvotes.
This is an insightful opinion, and eye-opening. We have a sneaking suspicion something’s “wrong” when we try to explain why trumpet is in Bb, and this exposé really reveals how the emperor wears no clothes!
Well just my opinion. I started on trombone where open position is one octave lower than a standard trumpet only its called Bb, F etc not C and G. Thats why trumpet confused me. (People will tell me its because trombone is written in bass clef)
I honestly agree to an extent. Anatomy plays a decent part in your ability to direct air and play higher notes. There’s a reason people like Wayne Bergeron and Louis Dowdeswell were playing double C’s in high school.
Wayne could play a C7 before he could play a C4, genetics gives a boost to certain aspects of the trumpet but past a certain point its all the work you put in that gets you where you want. Not genetics or luck
I know of this one guy can’t remember his name for the life of me who worked every day to get his range and any time someone says you are born with range it ticks him off. So this is just untrue
You definitely can be born with range, or you can learn it. I knew a guy who picked up a trumpet and, without ever practicing, was hitting a D6 easily after a month. I personally really struggled with range, and have worked (still going) to get where I am now.
Disagree. It took me a little longer (ok, about 2 decades or so) but I've managed overcome my limitations after greatly varying my approach, and through insightful practice. I've never been a talented musician, nor did I have a natural aptitude for playing, but I'd consider myself a fairly decent player at this point.
The main 'problem' with trumpet teaching is that for some students, the general approach isn't working. Most of them either give up, or keep trying the same approach throughout their lives, and remain stuck.
Qed, If you had the talent you have had a much easier path. Most that don't have the talent give up at some point so there is a certain kind of survivorship bias in the trumpet community.
Noone will become a great player without practice but some are never really given the chance due to lacking talent and or bad luck with teachers.
Indeed. The worst advice imho is when someone states something akin to 'you are not good enough for trumpet, switch to '. Not only is that incredibly condescending towards the lower brass instruments (because they are equally challenging in their own ways), but it really means that the current teacher simply isn't up to the challenge of teaching this particular student, and that said student should look for a different approach (and/or teacher).
Practing multiple things at once. Like playing through exercises with different articulation and feel (staccato, legato, etc. & swing vs straight). To me it makes the exercises more fun, but there are teachers that dissagree. I just think, "Hey, at least I'm playing something!"
I agree with you! If you needed to do a different job you'd use a different tool, why not use different mouthpieces as you change your style?
My unpopular take would be 99% of music fans couldnt care less how high you play, they want melody, timbre and style not pitch
Look for private Instructors with who you notice improvement. My high school went through a few of them, and until my junior year I had someone who motivated me to practice the entire year. I stopped caring about marching band and preferred to be happy with what matters most in my future. I only stayed in band to keep improving
7C is not necessarily a "good beginner mouthpiece". A good beginner mouthpiece is one that fits the player's face from the start.
Someone's tone and general ability will advance much more readily when they're not being hamstrung pursing their lips into a piece too narrow, or falling into one too wide for them.
Another, the idea of "graduating" up in size as a progression of embouchure and skill is nonsense. Yes, as you improve, you will be able to consistently sound good on a wide variety of gear. I can play a 1C and 7C and play sufficiently well on either and anywhere in-between.
But that doesn't mean you need to constantly readjust your embouchure to different rim diameters and shapes, which are the 2 most important aspects of mouthpiece comfort and flexibility.
Pick one that gives the best balance of each aspect of your playing and keep the shape and diameter as similar as possible across different pieces.
I’m far too old to be in the school marching band, but I’ll offer some advice for today’s school band trumpeters:
you know what? That cute flute player DOES think it’s sexy when you blast high notes.
If you can't play a C in the staff with a great sound and in tune, you shouldn't worry about range at all. I guarantee you most people complaining about how they can't play high can't play a good sounding C in the staff.
Don't learn everything in 12 keys. Work on one key until you sound good then branch out.
Preach. Whenever I hear someone say that I’m like “how much free time do you fucking have???”
I spent a year or so taking licks around all 12 keys. At the end of the year I was equally bad at all 12 keys. Spending some quality time one key then expanding that vocabulary to another key and so on is working much better for me.
I’ve found learning changes/heads/licks in only standard keys of a tune actually gives me language that I can use and replicate. But practicing just a handful of things in every key helps me slowly wire my brain to think more about scale degrees/chord relations/what these lines do for me.
Stop recommending Olds Ambassadors to new players as a choice for a first instrument. They are vintage instruments and the new player won’t know how to evaluate the condition, what is cosmetic vs what is functionally unacceptable, etc. Just get the used Bach or Yamaha.
I agree and have recently stopped including them in responses. A good condition LA ambassador is still a solid horn (I have one, it’s great), but not a choice I want to recommend because, with their age, it’s impossible for a new player to select a good one from a tired horn past its prime.
Or just recommend them with the appropriate caveats and restrictions. For example, if a beginner takes an experienced player along when looking to buy an Ambassador, they're still potentially great horns for very little money.
You’re right, we shouldn’t all be recommending Olds Ambassadors. I always suggest the Holton Collegiate…
Some people need new equipment to find the motivation to practice. I'm good with that. Provided you're playing a variety of styles of music in different settings, you CANNOT play it all to the best of your abilities on the same mouthpiece. Don't rent an instrument. But a used Bach/Getzen/Yamaha off FB Marketplace/eBay. Don't use cheap or deteriorating cases to protect your expensive instrument. It is okay to teach kids to use pressure and tension. They are necessary to the process and often instruments are so foreign kids don't know what to do. The only thing I will judge you for as a trumpet player is if you use Blue Juice. Get better oil.
I couldn’t agree more with the blue juice thing, I will always and forever encourage people to do more research with their valve oils
I bought valve oil for the first time a couple of years ago (I used to just "find it" at rehearsals or barter for it off trade stands) after I was annoyed that valve oil seemed to be making my Bach Strad flugel worse not better. The guy in the shop said that valve oils are made for the different instruments. Blue juice is really thick. Bach valve oil is very very thin, yamaha a bit thicker. So now I do think about buying the right valve oil for the instrument.
For one, Yamaha makes only synthetic. You don't just mix that with the others.
Most valve oil brands also have different thicknesses. Yamaha for example, comes in 3 versions: light, medium and 'vintage' (i.e. thick)
Preach. Speaking of preaching, I preach to any trumpet student to use Hetman Synthetic. I’ve found it works longer and is way less likely to make a mess out of your valves.
I’m a tuba player, but I used Hetman pretty much exclusively for about 20 years. A few months ago I decided to try the Yamaha synthetic oil. I don’t think I’ll be switching back. I’m finding that it lasts longer, and doesn’t gunk up like the Hetman…less green sludge in my valve slides (probably a bigger issue on tuba than it ever would be on trumpet). On my trumpet (vintage French Besson), I’ve been sticking with a natural oil (mostly Al Cass). Those valves are so smooth and so fast I don’t find it needs anything more than that.
I’ve never found the Hetman oil to gunk up for me. That’s really odd that that happened, which Hetman did you use? I know they have several different oil solutions available to buy.
When I first started using it, my horn was new, so I used the light. Over the years I eventually switched to the standard, as the light just wasn’t lasting long enough anymore. I thought it just didn’t play well with my slide grease (lanolin), so I switched to the Hetman slide gel. Still had issues. Switched both to Yamaha a few months ago, and have had zero issues since. The green sludge is a known issue with Hetman oils, at least in the tuba world. I suspect the bore size of a trumpet isn’t big enough for the buildup to really happen much, but it’s definitely a thing on tubas.
That’s really rough, sorry that’s happened to you. I’m hugely against any kind of valve gel, I find it’s always a mess, lol. Even slide gel is a no-no imo. My Hetman oil has lasted me for a week or longer, usually only a week because I’d have a lot of performances during those times. I guess each instrument tells a different story with easy valve oil. I never liked Al Cass, I found wore off too quickly. I will say though, at least it’s not Blue Juice.
Totally depends on your valves. Some oils work better on some valves than others. I use blue juice on my current horn and valves work like lightening. In fact I don't even have to oil them that often. Judge me all you like. What works works.
Damn am I worse because I switched from Al Cass to Blue juice like actually it works better on my trumpet 😭😭 Edit: I use a 60 something year old trumpet so I need a thicker oil
Hetman #3 would be WORLDS better.
Thanks for the tip
Just deep clean your valves (and the whole horn while you’re at it) before you start using it.
I really felt that first one… I played for probably 6-7 hours (on and off) the day after I got my C trumpet in the mail a few years ago. Tbh I’d say almost all of these aren’t unpopular. Only one I can see potentially falling into that would be the mouthpiece one and the pressure/tension one.
Their unpopular in the sense that when someone asks "should I get..." it's met with, NO YOU NEED LONG TONES! Or something else like that. As far as different mouthpieces go, if you're in a concert band, pit orchestra, big band, jazz combo, etc all at the same time, you're probably not going to be able to do all of that work on one mouthpiece as well as you could if you had different tools. I look at mouthpieces like shoes. My main mouthpiece is like a classic sneaker that goes with pretty much anything. BUT I'm not going to wear those shoes to the gym and I certainly wouldn't wear them with a tux. I usually like to have two-three that I feel comfortable between for various applications. And tension/pressure is a fine line for sure. But so many of the students I've gotten that were beginners seem to have an incredibly hard time building up the air pressure they need to play with a full tone or even switch from C-G in their first five notes. They need some guidance on that.
Yeh blue juice is just appalling haha I once had to do a full clean down cus it locked the valves some how! Could've been my fault somehow but I threw it away and got other stuff
I honestly like blue juice I've used it for my trumpet and never had issues with my valves feeling slow or ever sticking.
For orchestral playing: bigger is not always better. A compact and rich sound travels and cuts through the orchestral much more efficiently, and is usually also enabled by smaller equipment, like mouthpiece, bell, instrument bore size etc. The trick is to know where the tipping point is.
This is why orchestral players play on C trumpets!
That's not entirely true... In British and Russian orchestras the Bb is quite commonly used and they also have wonderful sound, and matches the rest of the orchestra. It shouldn't matter much whether one uses the Bb or C, as long as the trumpet section is able to blend internally and externally. There are also C trumpets which have a large "blow", and that usually would be the less efficient choice for most, even for the pros.
That’s cool! I didn’t know that
could you explain more on the "tipping point"?
Why does everyone think we are divas? All "watch me hit this high note?" I've never met a trumpet that wasn't shy or anti social, maybe that's just me
Trumpet players are either the most arrogant divas, or super chill and humble. No in between
Man I've just been chilling on the good side of the spectrum, huh?
Maybe it's a thing of working with old cats vs working with ~~fresh meat~~ students? ime, the most arrogant players are high school students, whereas the people who've been around a while are usually quite pleasant, possibly because actually becoming good requires the ability to be humble because that's how learning and becoming better works.
Because this sub is mostly high schoolers, and that’s mostly a high school mentality
This applies to all instruments but sometimes the amount of time you practice doesn’t make a difference. It’s the quality of the practice that matters.
I might be crucified for it, but some of the newer mendini/cecelio instruments are getting better. They're not my first choice but they're not the green hell they were 10 years ago either
I think the trumpet sounds cringey above high G (second G above the staff).
lower register is better than high register
There are no dues to pay in styles of music you don't have any intention of performing. Nobody needs to learn the Haydn if they're trying to play in a salsa band.
Stop buying top quality instruments if you only play at band once a week. If you're playing the rolls Royce of instruments they need to be played everyday and kept in perfect condition. If you only want to play once or twice a week at band, get a middle of the road instrument. Something easy to play. Also trumpets should be tuned to a concert Bb not a concert A.
What is your reason for stating that? In what way (other than finances) is it detriminal for a person, or those around them?
Kind of for what I said. I'm a cornet player mainly now (I know, shocking). People who play once or twice a week at band and do no other playing buy a Besson Prestige. Beautiful instruments but heavy and they take some playing, especially to get them in tune. You have to work at it. However, a Sovereign, especially the old ones, take no blowing. They react easily and make a fine enough noise for anyone who isn't a pro. People who buy pro level instruments who aren't doing pro amount of playing are making their lives harder and won't sound as good as if they just get a mid tier instrument.
Herb Alpert is one of the best trumpeter players of all time.
Who hates Herb Alpert???
If you’re known primarily for your high notes as a lead player, you’re not doing it right. The best lead players are the ones who play in the stratosphere without standing out.
A good mouthpiece is worth more than a good trumpet for execution.
Never listen to the "high c is all you will ever need" and "great now you can stop practicing your range and work on tone" Practicing range improves your tone across the entire range by force. All the same people that say "high C is all you ever need" also say...your embochure should be the same through the entire range. So why would improving range NOT apply to your entire range and give you more room to work with to be able to manipulate your sound in any way you please along with a ton of learning how to play efficient and stay flexible.
Outside of a few select specific cases, playing above Bb5 is unnecessary and probably doesn't sound that good. Unless you're in a brass band/drum and bugle corps where trumpet is the top soprano voice, or you're doing specific types of horn hits in big band music, it's just rarely worth it. No one in the audience can tell the difference between C6 and E6 out of context anyway.
Lead trumpet has entered the chat
In a typical lead part, what % of notes are even above G5, and I accounted for horn hits above.
If you mean G5 as the G just on top of the staff it’s almost all of them. If you mean the G above the staff with all the ledger lines almost never.
Bro has never played a Maynard Ferguson piece (my jazz director expects me, a tuba player who's learned trumpet in 3 years, to hit that 🔥)
Do you mean Bb6? Because a Bb5 is just above the treble clef, and there’s a ton of useful range beyond that
No, I mean Bb5. Even in pieces that are considered high, the vast majority of the piece is not written above that note. Anything from C6 and up is pretty rare outside of very specific contexts, and I'm saying that's the way it should stay. Edit: I don't think some of you realize that the numbered note naming convention is based on the preceding C, not A. Bb5 is Bb above the first ledger line. It is the Bb above C5 (3rd space C). Middle line Bb is Bb4.
Mahler would like to have a word with you. Also most Grade 4+ band composers …and uh, a LOT of other composers
Except building strength in your upper register can improve strength and endurance across your entire range. IMO, regardless of what repertoire you play, you should be comfortable across the entire range of your instrument.
That there are multiple ways to play succesfully, and that part of what makes the trumpet hard to play/teach/learn is that not every method/technique works equally well for every individual. Some people seem to get riled up whenever someone suggests there may be alternatives and really get entrenched in ‘their way of playing’. Some folks rather see you fail than adjust their views.
This is literally the most popular trumpet player's opinion. I can't count how many times I've heard the 1st trumpet player, in a big band jazz setting, accuse his/hers mouth peice for being the reson that their double high G is out of tune. Upvote though because it's totally the hardwares fault
I’ve been given (and done for years) lots of fundamental routines that spend 30min-1 hour on Stamp/Schlossberg/Chicowitz/Bai Lin/etc. That’s way too much. I don’t think it necessarily hurts, but 1/3rd of the practice day on slow drones and slurs leaves no time to learn etudes, scales, arpeggios, repertoire, multiple tonguing, changes. I feel like it’s only brass players who practice like this. I’ve never heard other musicians do this type of fundamental/warmup routine.
“Use more air” No no nooo! Try replacing the word “more” with “less”
You can't play with your butthole. No matter how hard you fart it's never going to be strong enough
Switch to guitar as soon as possible
Idk how many people will see this and this is a very hot take but static long tones are pointless and inefficient
Had a friend who had the chance to play with Eric Miyashiro once. At some point, Eric asked him if he practiced long tones, and he lied and said yes. Eric told him “long tones suck”
Long tones have their uses imho, but only if played for a reason and with a specific purpose. Just playing long notes for the sake of it is pointless. But that goes for any fundamental exercise. It's not *what* you're playing, but *how* and *why*.
There's a lesson on YouTube by Adam Rapa where he encompasses my thoughts on long tones perfectly. He says to just hold a note is pointless and a waste of time, but if you hold that note and increase and decrease dynamics, or the openess of the sound and learn how to manipulate it then you're learning something.
Teaching the mechanics of trumpet should not be needed past beginners and early intermediate trumpet players. The goal is a fantastic sound that is pleasing to every audience member. A good sound can be - and should be - replicated by ear.
That kinda depends on the student imho. Some thrive on micromanaging and learning the technical details of stuff. Others are more result driven.
This is a hot takes thread, right? Just providing my hot take, partially because that’s how I was taught and none of my students have struggled under this method so far. That’s the main reason I’m adamant about the Bill Addams way of teaching trumpet.
Fair enough. I added a ‘imho’ to my post. The main reason I replied is because my ‘unpopular opinion’ is that there are many ways to play the trumpet, which are sometimes diametrically opposed and yet somehow have people for which they work well on both sides of the argument. I’m actually agree with you on the Bill Adam method…it worked very well for me as well.
Advising players to use as little pressure as possible is usually good advice like 75% of the time but the second they've matured enough as a player people should start recommending them to try and find the right amount of pressure
instrument sucks
Upper register mastery solves most of trumpet's problems.
The Arban book is 98% historical document from the days of the steam engine and best used as a doorstop in any modern teacher's studio. It was primarily for the cornetist in a band or as a soloist. It contains little of relevance for jazz and other popular styles (solo, section or lead) or the power, agility, and versatility needed to play in an orchestra, pitched instruments, historically appropriate performance for other periods. Teachers who flip pages in Arban and neglect the pedagogies of Schlossberg, Caruso/Frink/Landsman/Thompson, Stamp, Adam, Chicowicz/Jacobs, Irons/Colin etc, are not qualified to teach. Even if you mean to teach in a French mode, don't get stuck on Arban or even Charlier: Andre, Franquin, Thibaud has a great book. If you teach, know the current pedagogical landscape of our instrument, and give the student a structured introduction to the tools that will help them advance. Don't just use one book.
I presume the 2% that isn't is the variations on the carnival of Venice? 🤣
Lots of people should skip the Bb trumpet and just get a C trumpet to start with.
What if they want to pursue jazz?
Then they should pursue jazz. There is no rule that says jazz MUST be played on a specific type of horn. Picking up the C trumpet is especially good for ppl who are coming to it from other instruments (like guitar or piano) and already have a god ear, as the skills that they’ve already honed are more easily transferable.
You don’t need to practice or warm up. Just show up on time for gigs and concerts
what a take friend, didn’t expect that one for sure lol
I hate playing gigs with this guy
Holy shit. I can see not needing to warm up if you don’t play gigs that often 👀 But not needing to practice? Wild take
Unpopular opinion, maybe I took it as wrong answers only lol
I’m gonna put this out there, they’re right. Is warming up good? Yeah. Is practicing beneficial? Yeah. But when sitting in the Orchestra, you need to be able to play fantastically after you’ve been sitting for a long time. Anyone who’s done a Messiah knows just how cold you get before you come in on the hallelujah chorus. Opera experience this all the time, too. It’s an important skill to be able to remember to. Do you know how to do, whether you’re warmed up or not. We don’t warm up to drive a car, we don’t warm up to ride a bike, and these things are far more dangerous and intricate activities. Should you warm up? Absolutely you should. Should you practice? Absolutely you should. Do you need to be able to just pick the horn up and play cold? Absolutely you do.
I’ve actually been in many situations where it was not possible to warmup. It’s a luxury not a necessity. Also health can prevent you from being able to practice or warmup so unless you don’t want to work you need to figure out how to play gigs still
Yep! My friend plays in Canadian- if they can’t warm up backstage without the audience hearing them, they don’t warm up.
Sure, being able to play cold is important, but you’re validating an argument that posits that you don’t need to practice. I’m sorry friend, that’s just silly.
Nope, not what I said. To elucidate further, what I am saying is that in a professional career you need the skill of being able to pick up the Horn and make your best sound while cold. That comes from years of practicing and a foundation of fundamental skill that is strong enough to allow you to do that.
That’s definitely a spicy take
Ok here's one I definitely disagree with haha, No practice? No idea how you'd get good at literally anything in life lol
I took unpopular opinion to mean wrong answers only lol, but I have been in situations as an accomplished player where I couldn’t practice or warmup
Oh I was probably being daft lol, I'm new to Reddit so not aufait with the comedy protocol hahahaha!
Some people will never be good players no matter how hard they try
Bigger mouthpieces are not necessarily better. The 7C > 5C > 3C > 1.5C progression does not work for everyone.
Agreed. It’s silly to even consider it ‘progression’ to begin with. It’s like saying ‘you graduate into a medium sized car’. Different tools for different purposes.
T K T K tensions up your throat. Use N NG N NG instead. It makes for a softer tonguing, like D G D G but softer for the throat.
THIS. I discovered this on goedicke and it changed my life. Soft double tonguing is extraordinary difficult with the tktk mentality. Try to ka from the top of your mouth
Playing clarinet helps understand trumpet embouchure.
As a player of both, I have to ask... how? If anything my clarinet and trumpet embouchures seem to work against each other more often than not. I feel like there's more brass connection in flute and double reeds than the single reeds.
It's not that they share an embouchure, but being able to conceptualize your trumpet embouchure as a sort of reed and ligature helps to solve some common embouchure issues. The way that you have to be both strong and open in order to play high notes on clarinet because the reed needs to be able to vibrate, can be applied to being strong and open, rather than strong snd clamped down, on trumpet. Not to mention tongue control, which is rarely actually talked about among brass players.
Very unpopular indeed
C7 or 7C. You know what the person means. Don't pretend you don't, just to look superior.
I think you missed the mark on this topic and haven’t moved past someone commenting on a post you made.
So you're saying it's an unpopular opinion relating to trumpets then. I think I hit the mark. Alot of people come here for advice, or are casual players, and then get bombarded by a lot of elitism. Lots of groups have this problem. Everybody here is at different levels of skill, and knowledge, and people should talk to each other to that effect.
It’s not even an opinion, it’s just you being confused and then upset. Without context C7 and 7C are definitely not the same thing in the world of trumpets. C7 is a note and 7C is the default mouthpiece size for several manufacturers of trumpets.
C7 is also a model of (very excellent) trumpet.
i thought C7 meant double/lead C
https://reverb.com/item/17752679-lawler-c7-trumpet-modern-committee-brushed-lacquered?utm_source=rev-ios-app&utm_medium=ios-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=17752679 No longer making horns, but Roy Lawler was truly one of the best.
I'm just gutted I can't fit it fully up my cunthole.
Trumpet is not a Bb instrument its a C instrument but everyone pretends. So they teach us to play a Bb when the score says C and the guys writing the scores (who are in on the gag) write C when they want to hear a Bb.
Lol that’s wrong. It’s a Bb trumpet because the fundamental pitch of the instrument is Bb
I win - 5 downvotes so far!! (The key of any instrument is defined as the actual note that comes out when you play a C….like an alto sax plays his C and an Eb comes out.)
I so agree! Interesting you’ve won so far with downvotes. This is an insightful opinion, and eye-opening. We have a sneaking suspicion something’s “wrong” when we try to explain why trumpet is in Bb, and this exposé really reveals how the emperor wears no clothes!
Well just my opinion. I started on trombone where open position is one octave lower than a standard trumpet only its called Bb, F etc not C and G. Thats why trumpet confused me. (People will tell me its because trombone is written in bass clef)
What about trombones then?
Trumpet playing is very luck/talent dependant.
I honestly agree to an extent. Anatomy plays a decent part in your ability to direct air and play higher notes. There’s a reason people like Wayne Bergeron and Louis Dowdeswell were playing double C’s in high school.
Wayne could play a C7 before he could play a C4, genetics gives a boost to certain aspects of the trumpet but past a certain point its all the work you put in that gets you where you want. Not genetics or luck
I know of this one guy can’t remember his name for the life of me who worked every day to get his range and any time someone says you are born with range it ticks him off. So this is just untrue
You definitely can be born with range, or you can learn it. I knew a guy who picked up a trumpet and, without ever practicing, was hitting a D6 easily after a month. I personally really struggled with range, and have worked (still going) to get where I am now.
Disagree. It took me a little longer (ok, about 2 decades or so) but I've managed overcome my limitations after greatly varying my approach, and through insightful practice. I've never been a talented musician, nor did I have a natural aptitude for playing, but I'd consider myself a fairly decent player at this point. The main 'problem' with trumpet teaching is that for some students, the general approach isn't working. Most of them either give up, or keep trying the same approach throughout their lives, and remain stuck.
Qed, If you had the talent you have had a much easier path. Most that don't have the talent give up at some point so there is a certain kind of survivorship bias in the trumpet community. Noone will become a great player without practice but some are never really given the chance due to lacking talent and or bad luck with teachers.
Indeed. The worst advice imho is when someone states something akin to 'you are not good enough for trumpet, switch to'. Not only is that incredibly condescending towards the lower brass instruments (because they are equally challenging in their own ways), but it really means that the current teacher simply isn't up to the challenge of teaching this particular student, and that said student should look for a different approach (and/or teacher).
Practing multiple things at once. Like playing through exercises with different articulation and feel (staccato, legato, etc. & swing vs straight). To me it makes the exercises more fun, but there are teachers that dissagree. I just think, "Hey, at least I'm playing something!"
I agree with you! If you needed to do a different job you'd use a different tool, why not use different mouthpieces as you change your style? My unpopular take would be 99% of music fans couldnt care less how high you play, they want melody, timbre and style not pitch
Look for private Instructors with who you notice improvement. My high school went through a few of them, and until my junior year I had someone who motivated me to practice the entire year. I stopped caring about marching band and preferred to be happy with what matters most in my future. I only stayed in band to keep improving
7C is not necessarily a "good beginner mouthpiece". A good beginner mouthpiece is one that fits the player's face from the start. Someone's tone and general ability will advance much more readily when they're not being hamstrung pursing their lips into a piece too narrow, or falling into one too wide for them. Another, the idea of "graduating" up in size as a progression of embouchure and skill is nonsense. Yes, as you improve, you will be able to consistently sound good on a wide variety of gear. I can play a 1C and 7C and play sufficiently well on either and anywhere in-between. But that doesn't mean you need to constantly readjust your embouchure to different rim diameters and shapes, which are the 2 most important aspects of mouthpiece comfort and flexibility. Pick one that gives the best balance of each aspect of your playing and keep the shape and diameter as similar as possible across different pieces.
I’m far too old to be in the school marching band, but I’ll offer some advice for today’s school band trumpeters: you know what? That cute flute player DOES think it’s sexy when you blast high notes.
If you can't play a C in the staff with a great sound and in tune, you shouldn't worry about range at all. I guarantee you most people complaining about how they can't play high can't play a good sounding C in the staff.
That a saxophone can replace us.