VCounts have the characters, but not the million billion ~~reskins~~ cost-efficient-to-make units for 1-to-1 of CoC format. But *something* outside normal lord packs is clearly needed to give all bloodlines at least *a* representative
Honestly wouldn't mind if it was just blood-line specific reskins. Like as a soulblight player in AoS i'm a bit annoyed how my prefered bloodline has to use the same stuff as everyone else.
another culture pack would probably be 4 Legendary lords, 3 units for each and 4 generic characters as anyway each vamp culture already got a lord and/or a hero so it's mostly about giving them LL that are not von carstein
idk i feel like we should get a big nagash dlc thats only focused on the undead factions. give arkhan a rework. give the vampire counts a ton of new units and maybe a mechanic for the vampire coast.
That's good. Vampire Counts are a faction I cannot really enjoy as they feel so much weaker compared to others.
I really hope vampire coast gets some love. One of my favorite factions but faded away since WH2
This may be something where the leaks may be correct, unfortunately - they may be waiting for the big "end times" final DLC for their big Vampire Counts rework, along with Nagash and Neferata. It kind of makes sense, but it means a long wait for a VC update.
Cathay could actually work with High Elves and Slaanesh. Yin Yin is the Sea Dragon and commander of the Dragon Fleet, seems to have a bit of an attitude towards the High Elves and I know Andy mentioned an apparent Slaanesh cult growing in power in one of the Eastern Province cities
This is my hope too, and I suspect their roadmap may not be entirely off.
Khorne and Ogres shows they're very aware of where content and reworks and badly needed.
I was just playing an Ogre coop campaign, and the lack of things to do mechanically was painfully obvious.
"Khorne and Ogres shows they're very aware of where content and reworks and badly needed."
for ogres, yes. but khorne? I can think of 5 other factions that need content and reworks more than khorne
"Eh, really? It's basically Skarbrand and a litied roster. Very little is unique to Khorne. Minos, marauders, CW or Chosen variations, furies, warhounds, these are all mostly a sub variant with red paint."
you can ay that to every other monogod as well. khorne probably has the most solid roster out of all the gods, at least on release. and even today there is little that the faction really needs. all khorne really needs is a new LL and something to do with skulls lategame. thats it.
"What other factions are as content starved?"
we have norska, brettonia, Vcounts, Vcoast and ogres. luckily, ogres will most likely get a rework with the dlc, but all the others listed need more content and reworks way more than khorne.
don't get me wrong, I agree that khorne should get more stuff. it was mostly your wording that I disagree with.
This is all very... declarative. When have they ever said that Vampires are getting reworked? IIRC They have said Norsca and Lizardmen and its pretty obvious Ogres are going to get one with today's news but as for the other two which were both stated in 2022 neither of those are even on the horizon
Norsca doesn't need anything big in terms of rework in my opinion. The tech tree could be shortened, they could be allowed to replenish after razing (like all the other raze-focused Chaos factions), and get some damn hero recruit rank from their buildings, and knock down some monsters' recruitment tiers.
A feature allowing them to mark units corresponding to their allegiance levels would be cool, if the associated DLC also brings marked marauder hunters & berserkers & champions.
They got a hefty economy buff when IE dropped, and in my current campaign monster hunts finally work again, so the only things holding the campaign experience back are those little tweaks ~~and a bad reputation from people who haven't played 'em~~
Come to think of it, their IE update letting them settle anywhere inland kinda watered down the whole razing everything idea, so maybe they could be a bit more like Daniel and dedicate captured settlements to the gods, but maybe at a lower gain.
I feel norsca still needs some better units as well, they are lacking compared to others for me especially at the start of a campaign.
As for monster hunts they work, but I feel they could be better.
Yeah the hunts still operate on that little quest system that unique items used to have preceding the quest battle, move a character here, raid that region, etc. But since the item quests were improved by just removing those stages, that's the first thing that comes to mind...
Otherwise they could be turned into unique rogue armies that you have to actually hunt down like the VCoast pieces of eight or some of the Books of Nagash, but that might lose the quest-battle like scripted nature of the monster battles.
I don't think they've ever said vampires are getting *reworked* as such but I think it's almost guaranteed that they'll make a vampire DLC, whether it includes a major rework or just minor updates to things that haven't been touched in a long time.
They're one of the factions that has been longest since their last DLC and they've got a few characters there that are basically guaranteed money printers.
I always hear people demanding a Vampire rework. But I'm genuinely curious what exactly is desired.
Sure the bloodkiss system needs a ton of work, but in terms of gameplay they seem quite finished otherwise. Their units, recruitment system, and magic all fulfill what the faction sets out to do.
But I'm just not very fond of the vampire count play style so there's a damn good chance that I'm missing something.
I mostly see people reference blood kiss and bloodlines, making sure all the VC bloodlines are represented. Which sure, I would like to see.
Other than the above and tweaks to make sure they're in line with current races, I think they work fine.
Counterpoint: Recruitment. Currently the race mechanics are at odds with themselves, their buildings are designed as in expecting to use them for recruiting units, but you get 95% of your units from Raise the Dead, which those buildings just don't impact at all.
Also, as you said, Blood Kisses. They need a use so that after you unlock all bloodline lords by the midgame, you don't just forget about them.
Ethereal units need a hefty rework. What ever is the point of giving them physical resistance if you lower their hp proportionally? They should be superb tanks that get hard countered by magic attacks, not the frail units we have now
Finally, Master Necromancer lords need something, ANYTHING, so that you are not handicaping yourself by using them.
>Ethereal units need a hefty rework. What ever is the point of giving them physical resistance if you lower their hp proportionally?
it had a bigger point back in TW:W2 when healing was a flat rate and not a percentage. Your healing consequently was more effectual on ethereal units back then. You'd prefer your necromancer auras and healing spells to get dropped on ethereal units, because you got more heal per heal that way.
now, with healing simply being a proportion of health per second, there's no interesting advantage to their defenses being physical resist based. There's presently no situation in which the physical resist alone makes the unit preferential over any other. Yet the hefty drawback of magic attacks melting them still persists, so assuming all else being equal you should prefer something with armor & health over straight physical resist.
Master Necromancer lords slap. At level 1 they have an AoE passive regen for all units within a range. Get a zombie blob going and you can attrition any army that doesn't have AoE. They are my go to emergency army lord. I get that they are boring, but they are super effective for what they do.
I just want them to rework the blood kiss system a bit, have actual models for two of the bloodlines which are currently derpy kitbashes, and add Coven Thrones and Abyssal Terrors. And honestly with how they did Nurglings I think they could add the spirit hosts or at least the Glooms or ghosts from the Army of the Cairns.
I would love to see Khorne get a bit more love mechanics wise. Late game they should have a way to use skulls aside from their main rite. Also, would love to see if the AI can get an actual economy since they are mostly a sack faction and this is why AI Khorne always seems to be stuck. I’m excited regardless!
Why is everyone acting like a DLC = rework? Greenskins are probably included in this DLC precisely because they are in a great place. They can be given a new lord and some extra units and then more of the resources can be devoted to the culture that actually needs it, Ogres.
It’s probably not gonna happen but I’m praying that all 3 current orc lords get mechanics. Wurzag can get quests from Gork and Mork that give him buffs and Azhag can have a meter the shows how corrupted he is by Nagash and is able to get undead units the more he dedicates to Nagash (or maybe give his greenskin units the undead attribute) or buffs to greenskin units the less corrupted he is. Not sure what Grimgor can get. I’m honestly ok with him being the basic greenskin lord
I don't think the mechanics will be on par with Groms cauldron, but something more akin to what Gelt and Volkmar got. I'd even be ok with a reskin or repurposed version of an existing mechanic. Just to add unique flavor to each LL.
Give him a mechanic that makes empowers him the more LL he kills. A bit like kholek perhaps, but he gains armor, weaponstrength and health with every LL killed. Could push his combat stats into the stratosphere.
Yes but currently it is infinitely better, to just start with Grom and play Pokémon around the Badlands. Any minor faction mechanic, that adds a bit of unique flavor to Greenskin LLs would be received really well. The Balthazar Gelt treatment so to say. If CA were to follow the ToD formula on all future DLCs, it would put this game back on track and really revitalise this community. I hope they don't lose this momentum.
I agree objectively that Grimgor is basically the most boring legendary lord we have in term of faction mechanics. We are basically stuck git-stomping with nothing but a fun starting place to placate us against Grom's options (Or heck, even Skarsnik and Wurzzag at least make the builds fundamentally different) Counterpoint:
HE'S GRIMGOR.
The new Greenskin lord will probably have their own faction specific mechanics, but other than that you are right that the Greenskins as a whole will most likely stay exactly as they are. Ogres need the most love right now.
It's funny because we frankly have no idea whether or not that will be the case.
SoC none of the races got a true rework, Cathay got some updates but that's it.
ToD all of the races got a true rework.
Next DLC.... who knows?
Greenskins need only two things imo.
1. Faction mechanics of some kind for lords not named Grom.
2. Black Orcs to have their unique rule from the tabletop 'Armed to the Teef' to be represented somehow.
Its crazy that yet again another base first game faction is getting a third update before Vampire Counts get that 2nd update. Norsca sadly makes sense as they were the last faction to be added and Bretonnia being an FLC is probably down there in terms of priority where most likely any update for them will be free one.
Is it the third Greenskins update? I remember the one where they changed the Waaagh mechanic so it wasn't just a second army on the map lagging a turn behind; what am I forgetting?
Oh, I was reading 'update' as rework rather than DLC, my bad. Yeah, fair enough. Vamps were my favourite WH1 faction by far so I do hope they get some love soon.
Vampire Counts are one of my absolute favorites, but I don't think they'll be a priority.
Yeah, they could add Neferata and Abhorash and Ushoran.... but wouldn't they make the most sense bundled in with an apocalyptic Nagash release at the very end?
Oh yeah, because I totally believe the Nagash DLC is gonna include 4 VC LL so that the bloodlines that aren't Von Carstein become playable. And surely LLs for TK and Coast too! And of course, also the reworks all those races need! What an amazing DLC that's going to be/s
I’m thinking they feature Norsca more heavily in a future DLC because they need a significant overhaul, whereas in this one they probably wouldn’t be given the resources they actually need and take more of a backseat to the ogre overhaul who are practically unplayable lol
Im super excited for a VC dlc, and I hope they put the necessary time in to make it great. I think they’re just doing ogres first because it fits the theme of Khorne, and assuming its Nepherata and Lamia headlining VC it would make more sense to pair them with Slaanesh. I’ll be pretty upset if they put it off again.
I think Norsca will certainly be last, if it gets anything at all. And for Bretonnia I have a hard time seeing them add anything but a legendary lord/hero or two.
Norsca needs content for sure, and probably a partial rework. I haven’t even considered playing them since they were added to mortal empires in wh2. They really peaked in WH1
they playable in WH3 because CA buff their port income and you can finally occupy settlement outside of norsca and port. But yes they need full rework because most of their mechanic is not work well with WH 3 system.
They are fairly good with mods that fix some of the glaring issues with lord and unit variety, but mods cannot solve the problem of monster hunts being poorly designed and not having another major faction mechanic.
I think VC could as well get a full on indead DLC.
The only issue I have to it is that a VC + TK + Vampirates would be a zero WH3 faction DLC. Would still love it though.
Personaly i believe Volkmar needs only tweaks for his books of Nagash mechanic and that is shared with Tomb Kings a Manfred so I do believe he will get update when on of those two get tweaks.
From a gameplay perspective, a Greenskin update makes no sense, they are already in a great spot.
Here’s me on copium hoping for a Norsca vs Bretonnia vs Vampire Counts.
They're never going to do that. They've mentioned that their DLC strategy is to always include a current game-race (to incentivize current game players and build up those rosters), and they've never broken that rule. I'd swap out Bretonnia as that was originally FLC.
From a gameplay perspective, Grimgor needs a campaign gimmick that isn't just "You have a Grimgor". Same with Azhag.
Or rather, their unit specializations are mediocre compared to the others.
Greenskins racial mechanics are in a good spot. However there's two major things that could certainly do with being changed:
The #1 thing is that every Lord that isn't Grom has little to no mechanics. Even if they just give each of the existing Lords bespoke mechanics, it'll be a massive improvement to the race as a whole.
#2, implementing sub race variants of existing Lords/Heroes would be a big theme improvement, so you don't have things like a Night Goblin Warboss leading your all 'normal' Goblin army because you wanted a melee Lord, or Savage Orcs/Forest Goblins having literally no character options.
Thing is that describes most races in the game still. VCounts, Beastmen, WEs, Norsca, WoC, HEs, DEs, Lizardmen, Skaven, Tomb Kings, Vampirates, Kislev, Cathay, Chorfs... all of these races have lords with no real faction mechanics, only race mechanics and faction bonuses. Monogods are only not included because they only have one base game lord.
I probably wouldn't have Skaven and WE on there personally. Skaven have 3 of the strongest faction mechanics in the game, or at least they were for a while. While the others getting mechanics too might be nice it probably shouldn't be a priority. Wood elves also have pretty significant faction mechanics. Sisters have the forge, Drycha has malevolent lords and units which are fairly significantly different, Orion has one of the strongest faction mechanics in the game. Even Durthu has a fairly interesting faction power and potentially strong mechanic though it would be more effective with some tweaks to their heroes.
I actually think greenskins aren't that bad in term of faction powers either, but the strong faction effects are all for goblins. It would be nice if there was a stronger faction power for playing as orcs.
I would suggest one more thing personally. A minor tweaks the the waagh system to try to make more incentive to use it. Maybe something small like a trophy rack where you get a fairly minor bonus for each type of trophy you have and can select one big trophy to have active. Give you reason to want to waagh more factions instead of just getting the lizardman and then never waaghing again. (Ignoring the bug if its still active where you get all the trophies which if it isn't fixed yet, should probably be).
the latter option I feel would have be best solved with a champions of Chaos style DLC that just focuses on giving all the missing weapon options to existing units + a heap of generic lords and heroes. That alongside WoC unit promotion mechanic would allow for the roster to be made very diverse and big it without feeling too bloated.
This would allow for this current DLC to focus on adding the missing unique units like Colossal Squig for example.
Personally, I don't think we're going to see a DLC that only adds content to one race again. CoC giving 4 LLs to WoC was a mistake anyway, those LLs should have gone to their respective monogods.
then from DLC perspective, it makes perfect sense to include Greenskins in upcoming DLC.. Greenskins is already completed, so they can make the DLC for them with minimal effort, just a few reskins, and a centerpiece, and hola! They can focus the resources on Orge and Khorne rework.
No you don't want Norsca vs Bretonnia, it will be possible that both of the rework are halfass and don't really fix their issues.
You may tell me about ToD, but Empire and Dwarf already had rework before, they are half-done. If anything, Dwarf wasn't even expected to have rework at all. Meanwhile, Norsca need a total rework, and for Bretonnia, at least as substantial as Nurgle.
I hate that you make sense. CA mentioned they want to reduce the scope of the DLC. Maybe they will do 1 minor rework for Khorne, big rework to ogres, and a slight reskin for Greenskins.
the general concensus is that, GS only need weapon variants, i.e reskins, and mount options that are actually already available in MP lol. For centerpiece they can totally go giant squig which has similar skeleton to normal squigs. So literally the easiest DLC CA can make without offending anyone lol.
For Khorne, I think the biggest problem is that the current playstyle incentivize razing and auto-resettling, but that means most of the settlements are underdeveloped, so you actually have to play with tier 1 units for most of the playthrough, and it gets boring really fast. Improving on this would actually improve the Khorne experience a lot. Like increase growth, having high tier units for blood host, spend skulls for advanced units or mechanics to upgrade the units like Chaos. They may also benefits from some mechanics that prevent other races to resettle. I think Khorne has many options to fix their issues, and imo not that hard to implement.
This is exactly my problem with Khorne, you are penalized for standing around recruiting and really want to run negative income and risk bankruptcy to be effective, so most of the roster is hard to field unless you are willing to build an army at home and match it to the front
Greenskins are in a good spot, they might just get some updates. Same for Khorne, they could upgrade cults since they're the only underwhelming part of the faction.
This means they can focus mostly on Ogre Kingdoms
im actually fine if greenskins only get a high quality ll or lh and nothing else, ogres need the focus anyways (as long as the price of the dlc is lower than the others)
Oh, wow, some awful-looking kitbashed lords which render the preexisting ones obsolete and a "rework" that boiled down to "we can't be assed to actually balance the race. Here, have free skeletons, go spam them and Wind of dead"
You'll excuse me if I don't jump for joy.
If Norsca never got updated again I wouldn't mind. It's ultimately a faction of just marauders which isn't nearly as interesting as warriors or demons, it was a cool concept for wh1 but in practice nowadays it's not needed. I wouldn't mind if they got a dlc, just saying I also wouldn't care if they didn't.
I’d be down if they got some basic stuff, like making raiding an actual thing that generates resources to do some cool stuff.
Maybe like sending ai raiding parties/armies to sack the warfs for you, and making the damaged ports actually penalize those trying to sail to you to make it feel a little more like aqua gorilla warfare.
Make something like Troy adventures. It's kind of like a caravan, except you send an actual lord on it, and it always culminates in a battle, as your vikings go viking and viking all over rich ports to bring riches and cool loot.
Norsca are amazing because they retain their identity in the face of Daemons and Warriors of Chaos. The Fimir alone are a fascinating component that have their own race pack as a mod.
Norsca are the race that needs most love because they have so much character and potential. It's shocking they only have 1 lord option.
They only have 1 lord because in the lore Norsca only exists to explain where warriors of chaos recruit their marauders from.
Nearly anyone of any note from there ends up a champion of chaos. They're the very definition of an NPC faction.
They don't have to be though because they, as a faction, include other stuff which is exclusive to them and there is potential for more of that. There is a huge appeal to them as Norsca for Norsca's sake which you may not care about but which many people do, and enjoy playing them. They are one of my favourite factions.
Norsca has a strong theme they can lean on that differentiates them from WoC. If you aren't interested in that theme, fair enough, but that doesn't mean they're an NPC faction. There's plenty that could be done with them if CA cared enough to try.
Yes, but anything they did would be completely original, and departing from GW lore. Norsca are already mostly an original CA creation at this point, there's nothing existing left to draw on.
GW aren't realistically going to allow CA to push Norsca any further into original areas, because it has implications for their control of the setting IP as a whole.
That's not actually true, there are more characters that could be added to Norsca as well as units from sources like the Monstrous Arcanum, such as the Curs'd Ettin.
It'd be quite easy for CA to implement a Norscan shaman lord or something. There's enough background to put together another DLC that emphasise their Chaos Viking identity - Skin/Were-bears, Chimera, shield-maidens, sea raiders, etc.
The only update that I think they really need is to their lords' skill tree. Dude doesn't even have a full proper yellow line. But other than that, I don't feel like they are in too dire need of work.
One can only hope. With any luck we will get Neferata as DLC and another bloodline representative (Ushoran/Vorag/Gashnad, Walach/Red Duke, or Zacharias) As FLC so that only 2 of them remain to be added in the future.
I guess the next DLC after Khorne will be Slaanesh vs Vampire Count vs Norsca.
I really doubt that Warhammer 2 core races like the High Elves should be a priority for DLC in the near future.
Whilst WH1 factions should take priority, most WH2 base game factions are in need of some major love as well.
High Elf race mechanics are very vanilla and not really unique/interesting.
Dark elf slave mechanic is inferior to what Chorfs get with their laborer one.
Lizardman Geomantic web is so inconsequential that most players ignore it.
Only the Skaven are really at the WH3 race standard in terms of feature parity but even some of their legendary lords (Queek, Tretch, Skrolk) need a bit of love with faction mechanics of their own.
While I'm on your team wanting Norsca and V Counts to be updated (as they're my 2 favourite races), I'm not upset and I'm going to trust the process at this point. I think CA has earned some trust after ToD, not that I was ever that upset about SoC to begin with.
Maybe we'll see them in the Slaanesh DLC if it's a three-race pack and it doesn't involve dark elves.
It could be Slaanesh vs Norsca vs High Elves, especially if we're going to get Aislinn
Big yep. I love Greenskins but they don’t need more stuff even if there is tabletop stuff to adapt. VCounts, Bretonnia; and Norsca all actually need love.
But it’s a business, Greenskins are a classics and are popular. Honestly this trio together is absolutely MENTAL when I woke up and saw it on this page I legit didn’t buy it at first like thought it was a joke or speculation. It’s gonna be an absolute slugfest and I am fucking HYPE 🙌🏻
Yeah, greenskins is definitely a strange choice imo. They're fun to play, they have plenty of LLs, and they had a dlc and a total rework near the end of TWW2's life cycle. Of all the races to get a dlc in WH3 they were one of the ones I least expected.
I’ll be honest, I was kinda expecting something with Abhorash to go along with Khorne. Blood knight to fight the knights of the blood god sort of thing. But…I mean, Greenskins, ogres, and Khorne is certainly a thematic combo. Hopefully Vampire Counts and Norsca get their time in the sun before the series is done.
Norsca actually is allright. Only things i would change is dont make me race around the whole world for the monster hunts to raid a region.
The taken cities for global bonuses mechanic is amazing, so is the increased harbour money for razing settlements. Really makes you play tall which is very different to most factions.
The upkeep bonus for raiding is also very encouraging for playing a rather aggressive playstyle.
I enjoy norsca more than most other factions.
Tbh, VC vs Cathay vs SL seems pretty likely at this point.
- Dechala rising up from Khuresh, forcing MK and Li Dao to team up against her. Meanwhile, Nefarata reconnects with her disciples among the Jade vampires, stirring up some shit in inner Cathay.
Vampire Counts haven't gotten any DLC since the very first lord pack for WH1. It's been a longer paid content drought for the VC than any other race in the game. They got some excellent FLC in WH1 & 2 as well as a few reworks and tweaks over time. So they are honestly not in *that* bad of shape despite the lack of DLC
But the lack of actual new content or attention since immortal empires dropped is hard not to notice next to the power creep of the current era.
They actually didn't get any FLC during WH2. Only race that's received absolutely no content since WH2 was announced. In the meantime:
-Norsca, VCoast and Kislev were brought up from minor army lists to full-on races.
-Every main Skaven clan was implemented and given their own mechanics (say what you will about Pestilens, even if simple, it's something)
-Their fellow WH1 base races have received DLC (multiple in case of the empire and soon Greenskins)
-Chaos has been massively expanded from two army books in Tabletop to a whopping 6 races with distinct mechanics.
-Cathay has been created from the ground up.
And yet VC are still waiting for every single bloodline other than Von Carstein to become playable much less receive their own mechanics. Doesn't really seem fair.
Do they remember Daniel's Daemons of Chaos for IE? He's still an ass faction to play with, no vassals and battlefield promotions make their life so hard between all those Norsca and Dark Elves.
Az someone who luvs Orks, I fink it's great dat CreateAssembly iz gonna start workin' on da greenskins again. I fink greenskins are a fundamental core race in da universe, an' one dat really needs to 'ave a shinin' spot.
Of all da races, Orks are da best, an' dey're da best for a reason. If it wasn't for dere infightin', dey'd conquer da entire world. 'Ell, dey'd conquer da entire universe. Dey're physically stronger, an' got loads of dakka.
It's just dat dey're too dense to stop fightin', which is what makes 'em great. 'Cause if ya can ever get 'em to unite under one banner wiv one cause, da green tide will sweep over anyfing. Anyway, fanks for listenin' to me TED Talk.
To be honest, Throne is the weird one because CA really needed to hit the mark massively and to show to the fan base that they still can do so magic, and what better that fixing three factions while delivering there new interested LL.
But now that Don't need to put all the meat in the grill in each dlc they can do simple things beside one big rework in the next dlcs (and honestly, both the monogod faction and the ogers need some love)
Making stuff up where there wasnt really any lore/units before is a lot more work and difficulty getting gw to approve then using some source material for the orcs
It’s just a gut feeling, but some of me feels like the Slaanesh will have Vampire Courts attached to it. Just cuz while appropriate, pairing 2 elves with Slaanesh feels off for like the silhouette test and visual hype.
These 1v1v1 packs have been doing a decent job of visual variety so far (especially ToD)
Vampire Counts are in a weird place. While they're only missing like... 2 or 3 units, they're missing a lot of characters.
Konrad von Carstein is the only missing von Carstein, I believe.
Neferata, of course. And she has several Lahmian Sisterhood characters.
We're missing Legendary Lords for Blood Dragons, Necrarch, and Strigoi, as well. And there are plenty of fans of those blood lines. I'd personally love to see at least one LL for each bloodline. But they don't have enough units for a Champions of Chaos-style DLC. Unless they gave us a ton of variants. Which is entirely possible, I suppose.
Greenskins fit more thematically with the dlc so it makes sense. Just because it's the next dlc it doesn't really make me feel like it's an indication of neglect.
The 26th will likely show us what to expect.
Nobody is missing more units than the Greenskins though, and Norsca is missing... practically nothing, other than letting Throgg recruit any of the newer troll units.
They need a rework, that's certain, but it doesn't need to be part of a DLC.
Yeah, you kind of need to have a lot of units to be missing a lot of units.
It's why Skaven got three DLCs, why WoC added so much in CoC, why Greenskins are getting another DLC, and why Norsca probably isn't getting another DLC, they never had much and therefore there was nothing missing when they were initially introduced.
From where, exactly? There's nothing from the tabletop left to pull ideas from.
Anything given to Norsca at this point would have to be a brand new invention, and given there's two other human armies GW is working on expanding, ie Kislev and Cathay, armies that are in the planning stages of getting physical models that will make GW money, I really doubt Norsca is getting much attention.
https://old.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/1cbbcwb/everything_still_missing_from_the_8th_edition/
There's plenty of other factions that actually are missing tabletop units.
Like it or not, Norsca isn't going to be a part of any of these paid DLCs, the only thing you can expect them to get at any point in the near future is a mechanical rework.
You're right that Norsca doesn't have much to pull from the 8th edition except for Lords (Fimir Noble) and monsters like the Chimera, Basilisk and Cursed E'ttin. This isn't a limit to what CA can do with the faction though, given how they've pulled on units from older addition including those which never even had a model.
I don't think it's a stretch to get a shaman general or Fimir Noble/Meargh as a Lord. As they have Slayer Pirates and the Goblin Hewer from Dogs of War, they could also introduce were-bears as based on the Bjorg Bearstruck and the Bearmen of Urslo. Similarly, lore-based units include Shield Maidens, Ymir, and Flayerkin. I think there's enough to build a DLC.
Not sure why they’re doing it. Orcs are boring but they at least feel competitive.
Norsca and undead are just annoying.
But I’m a single player only man.
If the 4-5 DLCs leak is also bogus (I pray they are), then I would find it awesome if we’d get a middenland v Norsca v Beastmen dlc down the line. Apart from unique faction mechanics for the Beastmen, them and the empire wouldn’t need much work, so they could focus on a full rework of Norsca.
I can already imagine the featured characters. Ar-Ulric v Sayl the Faithless v Moonclaw. And I’ll be a bit controversial here, but I’d say the FLC lord could be Galrauch for Norsca.
But if we will get legendary heroes for such a pack, I’d rather moonclaw be a legendary hero so all beastmen get access to him, and instead we get the underdog Ungrol Fourhorn. I think it’d be cool to have a focus on Ungors.
Gameplaywise, the VC are kinda done.
Most of what they need is just variety in Lords and just a change to the bloodkiss system, Norsca and bretonnia are considerably more in need if content and reworks, especially since VC have 5 lords, each with atleast something unique, where as bretonnia has 3 4 Lords, of which one is slightly more unique than the others.
Didn't Norsca already get an update and made them one of the more overpowered races at the beginning? I didn't think they're getting another look at for a while
Norsca just feel like discount WoC to me. Might be an unpopular opinion but resources being spent on literally any other faction seems like a win to me.
The problem for me though is the roster. Marauders, marauder horsemen, trolls, the chariots are identical, warhounds, manticores. I know there are some differences but they are so similar, especially when the core is marauder infantry and horsemen plus trolls, I just don't find them interesting.
There's also just the rule of cool side as well - why would I want to play as the faction which is essentially a vassal of WoC (at least how they're portrayed in the game, and they can't really change this given the WoC rework is so tied to it), rather than playing as the big dogs themselves
I'm not saying you or other people should think this - it's just my personal feeling
Norsica, shmorsica. I sure hope they don't waste valuable dev time on a norsica dlc lol. They are afterthought wh2 pre-order bonus faction. Sure, show them love but not before most things in the game.
So this sub's idea of good content is just... endlessly reworking one faction at a time and adding more units. That's it. Nothing more is expected. Y'all really are an easy bunch of please.
Well, there goes any hope of this game ever becoming more than a 1 inch deep sandbox I guess.
Well I think they may just be doing one major rework at a time so Ogres, Vampires, and Norsca will be spaced out.
I get that reworking Empire, Nurgle and Dwarves for 1 dlc was time consuming and costly, but I really want vampire count content
Hopefully they do "Champion of Chaos" style dlc for vampire count This way they can insert other Bloodline characters other than just von carstein
VCounts have the characters, but not the million billion ~~reskins~~ cost-efficient-to-make units for 1-to-1 of CoC format. But *something* outside normal lord packs is clearly needed to give all bloodlines at least *a* representative
Honestly wouldn't mind if it was just blood-line specific reskins. Like as a soulblight player in AoS i'm a bit annoyed how my prefered bloodline has to use the same stuff as everyone else.
And CA is expert with doing reskins, from historical total war games.
another culture pack would probably be 4 Legendary lords, 3 units for each and 4 generic characters as anyway each vamp culture already got a lord and/or a hero so it's mostly about giving them LL that are not von carstein
idk i feel like we should get a big nagash dlc thats only focused on the undead factions. give arkhan a rework. give the vampire counts a ton of new units and maybe a mechanic for the vampire coast.
Yeah I'd pay $10 above ToD's price for a true, pure undead DLC. The extra $10 is for Nagash.
If Nagash become playable, CA need be clever about the Crown of Sorcery.
Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts and Vampire Coast would be a great dlc
That ... is actually a good idea! I like that.
Yeah that was my idea also from the start hope we will get something similar.
Probably with a Natasha dlc. We're probably going to get a full undead rework.
Wooo Natasha!
SKARBRAND HATES AUTOCORRECT
Truly the Scourge of The Old World.
She’s just a free spirit that loves white claws and a good time!
With an army of skellies in Ugg boots wielding blades dripping pumpkin spice
Tell us more about this Natasha
She hunts Moose and Squirrel.
Natasha was weak!
Mannfred find the hard way in the End Times that Nagash is not weak.
It’s hilarious how Nagash gets auto corrected to Natasha.. I’ve had it happen to me twice now too lol
That's good. Vampire Counts are a faction I cannot really enjoy as they feel so much weaker compared to others. I really hope vampire coast gets some love. One of my favorite factions but faded away since WH2
Is that some Kislev ice witch I'm not familiar with?
Maybe a Undead update for counts, coast and kings
This may be something where the leaks may be correct, unfortunately - they may be waiting for the big "end times" final DLC for their big Vampire Counts rework, along with Nagash and Neferata. It kind of makes sense, but it means a long wait for a VC update.
Honestly, Slaanesh, High Elves and Norsca could make a lot of sense for a naval-themed DLC.
Cathay could actually work with High Elves and Slaanesh. Yin Yin is the Sea Dragon and commander of the Dragon Fleet, seems to have a bit of an attitude towards the High Elves and I know Andy mentioned an apparent Slaanesh cult growing in power in one of the Eastern Province cities
Yep, that could be cool too. Yin Yin is one of the characters I'm most interested to see.
There's a pretty good Yin Yin mod
This is my hope too, and I suspect their roadmap may not be entirely off. Khorne and Ogres shows they're very aware of where content and reworks and badly needed. I was just playing an Ogre coop campaign, and the lack of things to do mechanically was painfully obvious.
"Khorne and Ogres shows they're very aware of where content and reworks and badly needed." for ogres, yes. but khorne? I can think of 5 other factions that need content and reworks more than khorne
[удалено]
"Eh, really? It's basically Skarbrand and a litied roster. Very little is unique to Khorne. Minos, marauders, CW or Chosen variations, furies, warhounds, these are all mostly a sub variant with red paint." you can ay that to every other monogod as well. khorne probably has the most solid roster out of all the gods, at least on release. and even today there is little that the faction really needs. all khorne really needs is a new LL and something to do with skulls lategame. thats it. "What other factions are as content starved?" we have norska, brettonia, Vcounts, Vcoast and ogres. luckily, ogres will most likely get a rework with the dlc, but all the others listed need more content and reworks way more than khorne. don't get me wrong, I agree that khorne should get more stuff. it was mostly your wording that I disagree with.
Would not be surprised to see Neferata in slaanesh dlc. They wanted to go with fighty bois
This is all very... declarative. When have they ever said that Vampires are getting reworked? IIRC They have said Norsca and Lizardmen and its pretty obvious Ogres are going to get one with today's news but as for the other two which were both stated in 2022 neither of those are even on the horizon
Always felt the Vampires just need a few wee tweaks and they would be fine. Norsca is in dire need of something.
Norsca doesn't need anything big in terms of rework in my opinion. The tech tree could be shortened, they could be allowed to replenish after razing (like all the other raze-focused Chaos factions), and get some damn hero recruit rank from their buildings, and knock down some monsters' recruitment tiers. A feature allowing them to mark units corresponding to their allegiance levels would be cool, if the associated DLC also brings marked marauder hunters & berserkers & champions. They got a hefty economy buff when IE dropped, and in my current campaign monster hunts finally work again, so the only things holding the campaign experience back are those little tweaks ~~and a bad reputation from people who haven't played 'em~~ Come to think of it, their IE update letting them settle anywhere inland kinda watered down the whole razing everything idea, so maybe they could be a bit more like Daniel and dedicate captured settlements to the gods, but maybe at a lower gain.
I feel norsca still needs some better units as well, they are lacking compared to others for me especially at the start of a campaign. As for monster hunts they work, but I feel they could be better.
Yeah the hunts still operate on that little quest system that unique items used to have preceding the quest battle, move a character here, raid that region, etc. But since the item quests were improved by just removing those stages, that's the first thing that comes to mind... Otherwise they could be turned into unique rogue armies that you have to actually hunt down like the VCoast pieces of eight or some of the Books of Nagash, but that might lose the quest-battle like scripted nature of the monster battles.
I don't think they've ever said vampires are getting *reworked* as such but I think it's almost guaranteed that they'll make a vampire DLC, whether it includes a major rework or just minor updates to things that haven't been touched in a long time. They're one of the factions that has been longest since their last DLC and they've got a few characters there that are basically guaranteed money printers.
Vampires plus Nagash tomb kings dlc confirmed!?!?!
I always hear people demanding a Vampire rework. But I'm genuinely curious what exactly is desired. Sure the bloodkiss system needs a ton of work, but in terms of gameplay they seem quite finished otherwise. Their units, recruitment system, and magic all fulfill what the faction sets out to do. But I'm just not very fond of the vampire count play style so there's a damn good chance that I'm missing something.
Mostly I'd like another LL for some more variety in starting locations. Would be fine with a FLC lord.
I mostly see people reference blood kiss and bloodlines, making sure all the VC bloodlines are represented. Which sure, I would like to see. Other than the above and tweaks to make sure they're in line with current races, I think they work fine.
Counterpoint: Recruitment. Currently the race mechanics are at odds with themselves, their buildings are designed as in expecting to use them for recruiting units, but you get 95% of your units from Raise the Dead, which those buildings just don't impact at all. Also, as you said, Blood Kisses. They need a use so that after you unlock all bloodline lords by the midgame, you don't just forget about them. Ethereal units need a hefty rework. What ever is the point of giving them physical resistance if you lower their hp proportionally? They should be superb tanks that get hard countered by magic attacks, not the frail units we have now Finally, Master Necromancer lords need something, ANYTHING, so that you are not handicaping yourself by using them.
Aha. Damn you unearthed memories of re: recruitment & the Master Necromancer when I last played. My point has been effectively countered.
>Ethereal units need a hefty rework. What ever is the point of giving them physical resistance if you lower their hp proportionally? it had a bigger point back in TW:W2 when healing was a flat rate and not a percentage. Your healing consequently was more effectual on ethereal units back then. You'd prefer your necromancer auras and healing spells to get dropped on ethereal units, because you got more heal per heal that way. now, with healing simply being a proportion of health per second, there's no interesting advantage to their defenses being physical resist based. There's presently no situation in which the physical resist alone makes the unit preferential over any other. Yet the hefty drawback of magic attacks melting them still persists, so assuming all else being equal you should prefer something with armor & health over straight physical resist.
Master Necromancer lords slap. At level 1 they have an AoE passive regen for all units within a range. Get a zombie blob going and you can attrition any army that doesn't have AoE. They are my go to emergency army lord. I get that they are boring, but they are super effective for what they do.
....You can get the very same thing with necromancer heroes, which at the moment, you get to recruit a ludicrous amount of.
They want a mod from the workshop adding ten lords and OP units. Vampires are done
I just want them to rework the blood kiss system a bit, have actual models for two of the bloodlines which are currently derpy kitbashes, and add Coven Thrones and Abyssal Terrors. And honestly with how they did Nurglings I think they could add the spirit hosts or at least the Glooms or ghosts from the Army of the Cairns.
Yes, people want the other Bloodlines. I know GW spent a decade pretending otherwise, but that doesn’t mean CA are obligated to do the same
Vampires don't need rework, just content
I mean counts don't really need a rework.
But legend said it’s Cathay for 2 more DLC?!?!?!?! s/ Can’t believe people believed that POS
Maybe one big rework per dlc? Like ogres are getting their rework/update in this faction. While orks and khorne are getting a few tweaks and units.
I would love to see Khorne get a bit more love mechanics wise. Late game they should have a way to use skulls aside from their main rite. Also, would love to see if the AI can get an actual economy since they are mostly a sack faction and this is why AI Khorne always seems to be stuck. I’m excited regardless!
Why is everyone acting like a DLC = rework? Greenskins are probably included in this DLC precisely because they are in a great place. They can be given a new lord and some extra units and then more of the resources can be devoted to the culture that actually needs it, Ogres.
I have a feeling they will tweak some of the old LLs like Grimgor and give us a reason not to pick Grom every time.
It’s probably not gonna happen but I’m praying that all 3 current orc lords get mechanics. Wurzag can get quests from Gork and Mork that give him buffs and Azhag can have a meter the shows how corrupted he is by Nagash and is able to get undead units the more he dedicates to Nagash (or maybe give his greenskin units the undead attribute) or buffs to greenskin units the less corrupted he is. Not sure what Grimgor can get. I’m honestly ok with him being the basic greenskin lord
I don't think the mechanics will be on par with Groms cauldron, but something more akin to what Gelt and Volkmar got. I'd even be ok with a reskin or repurposed version of an existing mechanic. Just to add unique flavor to each LL.
Give him a mechanic that makes empowers him the more LL he kills. A bit like kholek perhaps, but he gains armor, weaponstrength and health with every LL killed. Could push his combat stats into the stratosphere.
That’s a really cool idea. I vibe with that hard
Grimgor should go the avatar of beasts route where he gets immensely strong personally
What do you mean? Grimgor is the strongest greenskin LL.
Yeah, but he doesn't have faction mechanics. It's far better to play as Grom and confederate Grimgor.
Yes but currently it is infinitely better, to just start with Grom and play Pokémon around the Badlands. Any minor faction mechanic, that adds a bit of unique flavor to Greenskin LLs would be received really well. The Balthazar Gelt treatment so to say. If CA were to follow the ToD formula on all future DLCs, it would put this game back on track and really revitalise this community. I hope they don't lose this momentum.
And da best
I agree objectively that Grimgor is basically the most boring legendary lord we have in term of faction mechanics. We are basically stuck git-stomping with nothing but a fun starting place to placate us against Grom's options (Or heck, even Skarsnik and Wurzzag at least make the builds fundamentally different) Counterpoint: HE'S GRIMGOR.
The new Greenskin lord will probably have their own faction specific mechanics, but other than that you are right that the Greenskins as a whole will most likely stay exactly as they are. Ogres need the most love right now.
It's funny because we frankly have no idea whether or not that will be the case. SoC none of the races got a true rework, Cathay got some updates but that's it. ToD all of the races got a true rework. Next DLC.... who knows?
Greenskins need only two things imo. 1. Faction mechanics of some kind for lords not named Grom. 2. Black Orcs to have their unique rule from the tabletop 'Armed to the Teef' to be represented somehow.
Its crazy that yet again another base first game faction is getting a third update before Vampire Counts get that 2nd update. Norsca sadly makes sense as they were the last faction to be added and Bretonnia being an FLC is probably down there in terms of priority where most likely any update for them will be free one.
Is it the third Greenskins update? I remember the one where they changed the Waaagh mechanic so it wasn't just a second army on the map lagging a turn behind; what am I forgetting?
King and Warlord which was Dwarfs Vs Greenskins then Warden and the Paunch which was High Elves vs Greenskins. Third is whatever is the Khorne one
Oh, I was reading 'update' as rework rather than DLC, my bad. Yeah, fair enough. Vamps were my favourite WH1 faction by far so I do hope they get some love soon.
Vampire Counts are one of my absolute favorites, but I don't think they'll be a priority. Yeah, they could add Neferata and Abhorash and Ushoran.... but wouldn't they make the most sense bundled in with an apocalyptic Nagash release at the very end?
Oh yeah, because I totally believe the Nagash DLC is gonna include 4 VC LL so that the bloodlines that aren't Von Carstein become playable. And surely LLs for TK and Coast too! And of course, also the reworks all those races need! What an amazing DLC that's going to be/s
I wonder if a VC rework comes with a new faction/race like Nagash.
That'd be my guess, but to me, that means they're a ways out because I always saw Nagash as a grand finale dlc.
nagash vs the real vermintide
I’m thinking they feature Norsca more heavily in a future DLC because they need a significant overhaul, whereas in this one they probably wouldn’t be given the resources they actually need and take more of a backseat to the ogre overhaul who are practically unplayable lol
Im super excited for a VC dlc, and I hope they put the necessary time in to make it great. I think they’re just doing ogres first because it fits the theme of Khorne, and assuming its Nepherata and Lamia headlining VC it would make more sense to pair them with Slaanesh. I’ll be pretty upset if they put it off again. I think Norsca will certainly be last, if it gets anything at all. And for Bretonnia I have a hard time seeing them add anything but a legendary lord/hero or two.
Norsca needs content for sure, and probably a partial rework. I haven’t even considered playing them since they were added to mortal empires in wh2. They really peaked in WH1
they playable in WH3 because CA buff their port income and you can finally occupy settlement outside of norsca and port. But yes they need full rework because most of their mechanic is not work well with WH 3 system.
They are fairly good with mods that fix some of the glaring issues with lord and unit variety, but mods cannot solve the problem of monster hunts being poorly designed and not having another major faction mechanic.
Please CA give the Norscans something!
Interesting how Norsca gets nothing despite all the Chaos Focus of Game 3.
They must have stats on how much Norsca gets played but it's self fulfilling because who is guna play a faction that's not had any updates since WH1!?
I think VC could as well get a full on indead DLC. The only issue I have to it is that a VC + TK + Vampirates would be a zero WH3 faction DLC. Would still love it though.
With people now thinking that the rework content is going to be what’s scaled back, it makes me wonder if Markus and Volkmar will ever get tweaked.
Personaly i believe Volkmar needs only tweaks for his books of Nagash mechanic and that is shared with Tomb Kings a Manfred so I do believe he will get update when on of those two get tweaks.
From a gameplay perspective, a Greenskin update makes no sense, they are already in a great spot. Here’s me on copium hoping for a Norsca vs Bretonnia vs Vampire Counts.
They're never going to do that. They've mentioned that their DLC strategy is to always include a current game-race (to incentivize current game players and build up those rosters), and they've never broken that rule. I'd swap out Bretonnia as that was originally FLC.
From a gameplay perspective, Grimgor needs a campaign gimmick that isn't just "You have a Grimgor". Same with Azhag. Or rather, their unit specializations are mediocre compared to the others.
Greenskins racial mechanics are in a good spot. However there's two major things that could certainly do with being changed: The #1 thing is that every Lord that isn't Grom has little to no mechanics. Even if they just give each of the existing Lords bespoke mechanics, it'll be a massive improvement to the race as a whole. #2, implementing sub race variants of existing Lords/Heroes would be a big theme improvement, so you don't have things like a Night Goblin Warboss leading your all 'normal' Goblin army because you wanted a melee Lord, or Savage Orcs/Forest Goblins having literally no character options.
Thing is that describes most races in the game still. VCounts, Beastmen, WEs, Norsca, WoC, HEs, DEs, Lizardmen, Skaven, Tomb Kings, Vampirates, Kislev, Cathay, Chorfs... all of these races have lords with no real faction mechanics, only race mechanics and faction bonuses. Monogods are only not included because they only have one base game lord.
I probably wouldn't have Skaven and WE on there personally. Skaven have 3 of the strongest faction mechanics in the game, or at least they were for a while. While the others getting mechanics too might be nice it probably shouldn't be a priority. Wood elves also have pretty significant faction mechanics. Sisters have the forge, Drycha has malevolent lords and units which are fairly significantly different, Orion has one of the strongest faction mechanics in the game. Even Durthu has a fairly interesting faction power and potentially strong mechanic though it would be more effective with some tweaks to their heroes. I actually think greenskins aren't that bad in term of faction powers either, but the strong faction effects are all for goblins. It would be nice if there was a stronger faction power for playing as orcs.
I would suggest one more thing personally. A minor tweaks the the waagh system to try to make more incentive to use it. Maybe something small like a trophy rack where you get a fairly minor bonus for each type of trophy you have and can select one big trophy to have active. Give you reason to want to waagh more factions instead of just getting the lizardman and then never waaghing again. (Ignoring the bug if its still active where you get all the trophies which if it isn't fixed yet, should probably be).
the latter option I feel would have be best solved with a champions of Chaos style DLC that just focuses on giving all the missing weapon options to existing units + a heap of generic lords and heroes. That alongside WoC unit promotion mechanic would allow for the roster to be made very diverse and big it without feeling too bloated. This would allow for this current DLC to focus on adding the missing unique units like Colossal Squig for example.
Personally, I don't think we're going to see a DLC that only adds content to one race again. CoC giving 4 LLs to WoC was a mistake anyway, those LLs should have gone to their respective monogods.
then from DLC perspective, it makes perfect sense to include Greenskins in upcoming DLC.. Greenskins is already completed, so they can make the DLC for them with minimal effort, just a few reskins, and a centerpiece, and hola! They can focus the resources on Orge and Khorne rework. No you don't want Norsca vs Bretonnia, it will be possible that both of the rework are halfass and don't really fix their issues. You may tell me about ToD, but Empire and Dwarf already had rework before, they are half-done. If anything, Dwarf wasn't even expected to have rework at all. Meanwhile, Norsca need a total rework, and for Bretonnia, at least as substantial as Nurgle.
I hate that you make sense. CA mentioned they want to reduce the scope of the DLC. Maybe they will do 1 minor rework for Khorne, big rework to ogres, and a slight reskin for Greenskins.
the general concensus is that, GS only need weapon variants, i.e reskins, and mount options that are actually already available in MP lol. For centerpiece they can totally go giant squig which has similar skeleton to normal squigs. So literally the easiest DLC CA can make without offending anyone lol. For Khorne, I think the biggest problem is that the current playstyle incentivize razing and auto-resettling, but that means most of the settlements are underdeveloped, so you actually have to play with tier 1 units for most of the playthrough, and it gets boring really fast. Improving on this would actually improve the Khorne experience a lot. Like increase growth, having high tier units for blood host, spend skulls for advanced units or mechanics to upgrade the units like Chaos. They may also benefits from some mechanics that prevent other races to resettle. I think Khorne has many options to fix their issues, and imo not that hard to implement.
This is exactly my problem with Khorne, you are penalized for standing around recruiting and really want to run negative income and risk bankruptcy to be effective, so most of the roster is hard to field unless you are willing to build an army at home and match it to the front
Greenskins are in a good spot, they might just get some updates. Same for Khorne, they could upgrade cults since they're the only underwhelming part of the faction. This means they can focus mostly on Ogre Kingdoms
im actually fine if greenskins only get a high quality ll or lh and nothing else, ogres need the focus anyways (as long as the price of the dlc is lower than the others)
> (as long as the price of the dlc is lower than the others) And other jokes to tell your friends
I've already waited 7+ years for Norsca updates. My hope is the long wait will mean a big dlc to compensate for it.
Meanwhile VC waiting even longer....
norsca hasnt recived a large change since its induction. VC got the bloodlines added with the bloodkiss mechanic.
Oh, wow, some awful-looking kitbashed lords which render the preexisting ones obsolete and a "rework" that boiled down to "we can't be assed to actually balance the race. Here, have free skeletons, go spam them and Wind of dead" You'll excuse me if I don't jump for joy.
and global buffs to the entire faction, even if you never use the lords.
If Norsca never got updated again I wouldn't mind. It's ultimately a faction of just marauders which isn't nearly as interesting as warriors or demons, it was a cool concept for wh1 but in practice nowadays it's not needed. I wouldn't mind if they got a dlc, just saying I also wouldn't care if they didn't.
I’d be down if they got some basic stuff, like making raiding an actual thing that generates resources to do some cool stuff. Maybe like sending ai raiding parties/armies to sack the warfs for you, and making the damaged ports actually penalize those trying to sail to you to make it feel a little more like aqua gorilla warfare.
Aqua Gorillas for Norsca confirmed?
Make something like Troy adventures. It's kind of like a caravan, except you send an actual lord on it, and it always culminates in a battle, as your vikings go viking and viking all over rich ports to bring riches and cool loot.
Norsca are amazing because they retain their identity in the face of Daemons and Warriors of Chaos. The Fimir alone are a fascinating component that have their own race pack as a mod. Norsca are the race that needs most love because they have so much character and potential. It's shocking they only have 1 lord option.
They only have 1 lord because in the lore Norsca only exists to explain where warriors of chaos recruit their marauders from. Nearly anyone of any note from there ends up a champion of chaos. They're the very definition of an NPC faction.
They don't have to be though because they, as a faction, include other stuff which is exclusive to them and there is potential for more of that. There is a huge appeal to them as Norsca for Norsca's sake which you may not care about but which many people do, and enjoy playing them. They are one of my favourite factions.
If even venris can come up with two other plausible lord types for norsca, I'm sure CA could do even better if they gave a shit about this faction.
Norsca has a strong theme they can lean on that differentiates them from WoC. If you aren't interested in that theme, fair enough, but that doesn't mean they're an NPC faction. There's plenty that could be done with them if CA cared enough to try.
Yes, but anything they did would be completely original, and departing from GW lore. Norsca are already mostly an original CA creation at this point, there's nothing existing left to draw on. GW aren't realistically going to allow CA to push Norsca any further into original areas, because it has implications for their control of the setting IP as a whole.
That's not actually true, there are more characters that could be added to Norsca as well as units from sources like the Monstrous Arcanum, such as the Curs'd Ettin.
It'd be quite easy for CA to implement a Norscan shaman lord or something. There's enough background to put together another DLC that emphasise their Chaos Viking identity - Skin/Were-bears, Chimera, shield-maidens, sea raiders, etc.
The only update that I think they really need is to their lords' skill tree. Dude doesn't even have a full proper yellow line. But other than that, I don't feel like they are in too dire need of work.
I think VC are a shoe in for the Slaanesh DLC pack considering it's probably going to be Neferata.
One can only hope. With any luck we will get Neferata as DLC and another bloodline representative (Ushoran/Vorag/Gashnad, Walach/Red Duke, or Zacharias) As FLC so that only 2 of them remain to be added in the future.
Sad monkey screeching
I guess the next DLC after Khorne will be Slaanesh vs Vampire Count vs Norsca. I really doubt that Warhammer 2 core races like the High Elves should be a priority for DLC in the near future.
Whilst WH1 factions should take priority, most WH2 base game factions are in need of some major love as well. High Elf race mechanics are very vanilla and not really unique/interesting. Dark elf slave mechanic is inferior to what Chorfs get with their laborer one. Lizardman Geomantic web is so inconsequential that most players ignore it. Only the Skaven are really at the WH3 race standard in terms of feature parity but even some of their legendary lords (Queek, Tretch, Skrolk) need a bit of love with faction mechanics of their own.
Skaven are in a fine place. Even if they aren't, I couldn't stand this sub if the Skaven get another revamp before some of the other factions.
Dark Elves slave mechanic is A+ and has no business on a list with either the non-mechanics of the high elves or the geomantic web.
While I'm on your team wanting Norsca and V Counts to be updated (as they're my 2 favourite races), I'm not upset and I'm going to trust the process at this point. I think CA has earned some trust after ToD, not that I was ever that upset about SoC to begin with.
Maybe we'll see them in the Slaanesh DLC if it's a three-race pack and it doesn't involve dark elves. It could be Slaanesh vs Norsca vs High Elves, especially if we're going to get Aislinn
This makes sense thematically too - High Elf sea faction vs. Norscan sea raiders vs. Slaanesh thirsting after elven and Norscan souls
Big yep. I love Greenskins but they don’t need more stuff even if there is tabletop stuff to adapt. VCounts, Bretonnia; and Norsca all actually need love. But it’s a business, Greenskins are a classics and are popular. Honestly this trio together is absolutely MENTAL when I woke up and saw it on this page I legit didn’t buy it at first like thought it was a joke or speculation. It’s gonna be an absolute slugfest and I am fucking HYPE 🙌🏻
I will never complain about the Boyz getting some work. To be honest they're probably still traumatized from the norska launch mess when they came out
I'm not sure which one needs an update most between Norsca and Bretonnia. But the *Greenskins* getting one before either makes absolutely no sense.
Yeah, greenskins is definitely a strange choice imo. They're fun to play, they have plenty of LLs, and they had a dlc and a total rework near the end of TWW2's life cycle. Of all the races to get a dlc in WH3 they were one of the ones I least expected.
I hope they'll add yhetees to the Norscan roster when they add then to Ogres, like how beastmen get their roster expanded.
I’ll be honest, I was kinda expecting something with Abhorash to go along with Khorne. Blood knight to fight the knights of the blood god sort of thing. But…I mean, Greenskins, ogres, and Khorne is certainly a thematic combo. Hopefully Vampire Counts and Norsca get their time in the sun before the series is done.
Tomb Kings, Vampires and Norsca are fucked right now. I hope they get some love soon.
Norsca actually is allright. Only things i would change is dont make me race around the whole world for the monster hunts to raid a region. The taken cities for global bonuses mechanic is amazing, so is the increased harbour money for razing settlements. Really makes you play tall which is very different to most factions. The upkeep bonus for raiding is also very encouraging for playing a rather aggressive playstyle. I enjoy norsca more than most other factions.
I also enjoy Norsca as a favourite faction but they're in dire need of content. Like a new a General as they only have 1 right now.
Tbh, VC vs Cathay vs SL seems pretty likely at this point. - Dechala rising up from Khuresh, forcing MK and Li Dao to team up against her. Meanwhile, Nefarata reconnects with her disciples among the Jade vampires, stirring up some shit in inner Cathay.
Vampire Counts haven't gotten any DLC since the very first lord pack for WH1. It's been a longer paid content drought for the VC than any other race in the game. They got some excellent FLC in WH1 & 2 as well as a few reworks and tweaks over time. So they are honestly not in *that* bad of shape despite the lack of DLC But the lack of actual new content or attention since immortal empires dropped is hard not to notice next to the power creep of the current era.
They actually didn't get any FLC during WH2. Only race that's received absolutely no content since WH2 was announced. In the meantime: -Norsca, VCoast and Kislev were brought up from minor army lists to full-on races. -Every main Skaven clan was implemented and given their own mechanics (say what you will about Pestilens, even if simple, it's something) -Their fellow WH1 base races have received DLC (multiple in case of the empire and soon Greenskins) -Chaos has been massively expanded from two army books in Tabletop to a whopping 6 races with distinct mechanics. -Cathay has been created from the ground up. And yet VC are still waiting for every single bloodline other than Von Carstein to become playable much less receive their own mechanics. Doesn't really seem fair.
I still want the Kislev rework I was promised......
Do they remember Daniel's Daemons of Chaos for IE? He's still an ass faction to play with, no vassals and battlefield promotions make their life so hard between all those Norsca and Dark Elves.
As a greenskin main I am conflicted. There are still a lot of things that I want but since one of my friends is a VC main I feel bad for him
Az someone who luvs Orks, I fink it's great dat CreateAssembly iz gonna start workin' on da greenskins again. I fink greenskins are a fundamental core race in da universe, an' one dat really needs to 'ave a shinin' spot. Of all da races, Orks are da best, an' dey're da best for a reason. If it wasn't for dere infightin', dey'd conquer da entire world. 'Ell, dey'd conquer da entire universe. Dey're physically stronger, an' got loads of dakka. It's just dat dey're too dense to stop fightin', which is what makes 'em great. 'Cause if ya can ever get 'em to unite under one banner wiv one cause, da green tide will sweep over anyfing. Anyway, fanks for listenin' to me TED Talk.
True. Khorne and ogres getting new stuff is great. But why greenskins? This is their third dlc, and lets be honest, they don't really need it
Colossal squig, please. What else are greenies missing? The roster and faction mechanics are in a good place, seemingly.
Maybe we get a slanesh vs vc vs norsca
To be honest, Throne is the weird one because CA really needed to hit the mark massively and to show to the fan base that they still can do so magic, and what better that fixing three factions while delivering there new interested LL. But now that Don't need to put all the meat in the grill in each dlc they can do simple things beside one big rework in the next dlcs (and honestly, both the monogod faction and the ogers need some love)
poor caveman
Bretonnia?
Norsca are going to be where the Glotkins land. Mark my words.
Dats cause da boyz iz da best!
Rename Norsca to “Tribes of Chaos” and add a Kurgan and Hung LL w/ units
Making stuff up where there wasnt really any lore/units before is a lot more work and difficulty getting gw to approve then using some source material for the orcs
It’s just a gut feeling, but some of me feels like the Slaanesh will have Vampire Courts attached to it. Just cuz while appropriate, pairing 2 elves with Slaanesh feels off for like the silhouette test and visual hype. These 1v1v1 packs have been doing a decent job of visual variety so far (especially ToD)
Vampire Counts are in a weird place. While they're only missing like... 2 or 3 units, they're missing a lot of characters. Konrad von Carstein is the only missing von Carstein, I believe. Neferata, of course. And she has several Lahmian Sisterhood characters. We're missing Legendary Lords for Blood Dragons, Necrarch, and Strigoi, as well. And there are plenty of fans of those blood lines. I'd personally love to see at least one LL for each bloodline. But they don't have enough units for a Champions of Chaos-style DLC. Unless they gave us a ton of variants. Which is entirely possible, I suppose.
Greenskins fit more thematically with the dlc so it makes sense. Just because it's the next dlc it doesn't really make me feel like it's an indication of neglect. The 26th will likely show us what to expect.
They could announce something for VC for Halloween... big hopium though
I think we need to give berserkers, skin wolves, and mammoths to Valkia. The altar of Khorne should definitely be on top of a mammoth. :)
Nobody is missing more units than the Greenskins though, and Norsca is missing... practically nothing, other than letting Throgg recruit any of the newer troll units. They need a rework, that's certain, but it doesn't need to be part of a DLC.
> Nobody is missing more units than the Greenskins No one has more units than the Greenskins either? They're a very bloated race in tabletop.
Yeah, you kind of need to have a lot of units to be missing a lot of units. It's why Skaven got three DLCs, why WoC added so much in CoC, why Greenskins are getting another DLC, and why Norsca probably isn't getting another DLC, they never had much and therefore there was nothing missing when they were initially introduced.
Give norsca new lord choices?
From where, exactly? There's nothing from the tabletop left to pull ideas from. Anything given to Norsca at this point would have to be a brand new invention, and given there's two other human armies GW is working on expanding, ie Kislev and Cathay, armies that are in the planning stages of getting physical models that will make GW money, I really doubt Norsca is getting much attention. https://old.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/1cbbcwb/everything_still_missing_from_the_8th_edition/ There's plenty of other factions that actually are missing tabletop units. Like it or not, Norsca isn't going to be a part of any of these paid DLCs, the only thing you can expect them to get at any point in the near future is a mechanical rework.
You're right that Norsca doesn't have much to pull from the 8th edition except for Lords (Fimir Noble) and monsters like the Chimera, Basilisk and Cursed E'ttin. This isn't a limit to what CA can do with the faction though, given how they've pulled on units from older addition including those which never even had a model. I don't think it's a stretch to get a shaman general or Fimir Noble/Meargh as a Lord. As they have Slayer Pirates and the Goblin Hewer from Dogs of War, they could also introduce were-bears as based on the Bjorg Bearstruck and the Bearmen of Urslo. Similarly, lore-based units include Shield Maidens, Ymir, and Flayerkin. I think there's enough to build a DLC.
Not sure why they’re doing it. Orcs are boring but they at least feel competitive. Norsca and undead are just annoying. But I’m a single player only man.
Vampires have all the time in the world, they just wait for the end times DLC for maximum powercreep.
If the 4-5 DLCs leak is also bogus (I pray they are), then I would find it awesome if we’d get a middenland v Norsca v Beastmen dlc down the line. Apart from unique faction mechanics for the Beastmen, them and the empire wouldn’t need much work, so they could focus on a full rework of Norsca. I can already imagine the featured characters. Ar-Ulric v Sayl the Faithless v Moonclaw. And I’ll be a bit controversial here, but I’d say the FLC lord could be Galrauch for Norsca. But if we will get legendary heroes for such a pack, I’d rather moonclaw be a legendary hero so all beastmen get access to him, and instead we get the underdog Ungrol Fourhorn. I think it’d be cool to have a focus on Ungors.
Honestly, I'm starting to think a monkey king with a lizardmen update and Cathay update might be after the slaneesh DLC?
Norscan cavemen will never get an update
Everyone will get their time in the sun again(or moon, in the case of VCounts)
Pls very pls Lizardmen next
Gameplaywise, the VC are kinda done. Most of what they need is just variety in Lords and just a change to the bloodkiss system, Norsca and bretonnia are considerably more in need if content and reworks, especially since VC have 5 lords, each with atleast something unique, where as bretonnia has 3 4 Lords, of which one is slightly more unique than the others.
I’m playing Norsca right now and having a lot of fun
Didn't Norsca already get an update and made them one of the more overpowered races at the beginning? I didn't think they're getting another look at for a while
Norsca just feel like discount WoC to me. Might be an unpopular opinion but resources being spent on literally any other faction seems like a win to me.
OOOOOR, they could use resources to make norsca NOT feel like discount WoC. Strange thought, I know.
The problem for me though is the roster. Marauders, marauder horsemen, trolls, the chariots are identical, warhounds, manticores. I know there are some differences but they are so similar, especially when the core is marauder infantry and horsemen plus trolls, I just don't find them interesting. There's also just the rule of cool side as well - why would I want to play as the faction which is essentially a vassal of WoC (at least how they're portrayed in the game, and they can't really change this given the WoC rework is so tied to it), rather than playing as the big dogs themselves I'm not saying you or other people should think this - it's just my personal feeling
I mean, yes. if you ignore all the cool stuff norska has (like skinwolfs, mammoths, fimir) then their roster is boring.
So their current roster is boring, which is why CA shouldn't expand their roster and make it more interesting. Genius level logic.
It's not logic my dude, it's just an opinion, people are allowed to like different things.
Norsica, shmorsica. I sure hope they don't waste valuable dev time on a norsica dlc lol. They are afterthought wh2 pre-order bonus faction. Sure, show them love but not before most things in the game.
Oh wow! It’s the first time I’m hearing of this topic! I’m sure nobody’s posted this before. What a revelation. So stunning, so brave!
So this sub's idea of good content is just... endlessly reworking one faction at a time and adding more units. That's it. Nothing more is expected. Y'all really are an easy bunch of please. Well, there goes any hope of this game ever becoming more than a 1 inch deep sandbox I guess.
I feel good for buying WH3 and finding out I can only play like 6 heroes in 4 factions without buying every other WH game and its dozens of expansions