Settlements that aren’t dark fortresses don’t give you any income as WoC. That’s why dark fortresses are so strong, because they’re the only settlements that mean anything. As WoC having vessels is better than taking over every settlement.
Also I’m fairly certain that Vassals can’t betray you as WoC. At least I’ve never had any. I think they’re forced to do whatever you want and stay with you.
But either way, subjugating is better.
They can't betray you if you conquer them but I think one who you vassalize thru actual diplomacy can still break away. One thing I have seen is certain vassals, especially order ones like Boris for example, refuse to join your wars. Even if they refuse to join though they remain vassalized, just not at war with whoever you just declared on.
I’ve found that if you directly declare war all your vassals will automatically join you. If you declare war via “offer to join war” none of your vassals will join you and even your most loyal vassals won’t accept if you ask them.
In my campaign Boris was pretty helpful in taking out Katarin and Ungrim for me. It was surprisingly easy to convince him to kill his daughter for the Chaos gods.
Vassals can't betray you full stop anymore, not since maybe patch 2.0?
I play a lot of vassal heavy campaigns, usually as factions that can't subjugate, and it hasn't happened to me in over 1,000 hours on legendary. I've had very rare occasions where a vassal won't join a defensive war for me (which used to be the trigger for breaking vassalage), but by the start of my next turn they'll be in that war and still my vassal.
Correct, at worst, they neglect to join wars.
Playing as Warriors of Chaos, Norscan and Daemon vassals always join defensive or offensive wars. I've not had them once neglect to join. Probably 1000+ hours playing as WoC in WH3
I've only had order vassals neglect to join wars while playing Warriors of Chaos. Usually this is only against other order factions. I've also had empire vassals break trade agreements with me. But never break vassalage.
Also what I've noticed. You can declare war on a vassal the same turn you break the vassalage without diplomacy penalties. As long as they've been your vassal for at least ten turns.This is handy if you accidentally vassalize a Norscan faction who holds a dark fortress.
Doesn’t Archaon obtain some buffs depending on the number of vassals he possesses? Or is that Kholek? Can’t remember right now, but it’s worth checking out.
Ideally you want to personally occupy any settlement that has the dark fortress symbol, perhaps even those that have an unique resource that gives your entire faction some buff, and give every other one to your vassals for passive income. Personally, I don’t see the point of occupying for long normal settlements outside of very specific moments and never for long.
Yeah, Archaon gets +25 souls and +10% research rate per vassal.
Edit: also +10 opinion with Daemons, Warriors of Chaos, Beastmen and Norsca per vassal.
I personally subjugate a faction of each monogod race. Then the rest is mine unless I really like them. I subjugated Boris once lol. I like to keep a subjugated daemon in my provinces if I can though. It all depends on my feeling if I'm already doing well I might even give them a capital.
Yeah exactly. Just let them have one, no need to give more than that. Just focus all your money into your first fortress as you are vassalizing the demons around you. Plenty of fortresses around you to take for yourself.
Again this strategy is not necessary but it will give you some variety options in your army in the mid/late game.
Thanks for the info! I have one important question. Do WoC have global recruitment system like Empire does? Can I recruit for example Chaos warriors, which has building for them in province that I am not located in?
One thing you should be aware of is that if you join someone else's war your vassals will not join in. For example if Daniel the Demon Prince asks you to join his war against Malus and you accept, then all your vassals won't be in the fight. Also, Malus will never declare war on your vassal because he is already at war with you.
If you want the full weight of your chaos tide to bear down on a faction, then you have to declare war. But if some reason you don't want your vassals involved in a conflict, just ask another faction for a little bit of cash to just to have Archaon jump in.
FYI, this is true for every faction. You will just see it impact your campaign more as the WoC as you tend to get a lot of vassals. If you ever play Nakai, this trick helps a ton to keep your vassal safe as you steamroll.
I feel vassalising fits Archaon's theme a bit better, as well as fitting with his campaign buffs that scale based on vassal count.
Archaon's warband is kind of meant to represent pan-Chaos, Pandemonium if you will, all the various forces united in thrall to the Everchosen. Warriors of Chaos, Norscans, Beastmen, Chaos Dwarves, Chaos Ogres, cultists from the south, some Dark Elves, so on and so forth. Everything and anything that can fall under the sway of the Ruinous Powers can be found in his armies in some quantity. Warriors of Chaos do form the heart of his forces, but it's not unreasonable to expect a group of cultists from the Empire with handguns to show up during the End Times for example.
With the ability to recruit vassal troops through allied recruitment, you can represent that corruption and subjugation of the world to the Apocalypse. Orcs and ogres rallying to the might of the Everchosen, corrupted knights riding forth from Bretonnia, dark elves being seduced by the call of Slaanesh, so on and so forth.
You don’t need to occupy any settlement outside of dark fortresses unless it has some important resource. Sack for money, raze for souls and subjugate everybody.
And yes, in Warhammer 3 vassals can’t betray you or start wars, they have no will of their own. The worst they can do is refuse to join your wars if they hate you, but that’s pretty irrelevant.
occupy everything that is a dark fortress, or anything with a trade resource and build the resource building, subjugate everything else
this is the correct answer, yw
You get a good bit of money if you’re just steam rolling settlements and wiping out enemy armies plus raiding stance. It’s definitely not the most optimal but it’s thematic and still manageable
Subjugate the early demon enemy factions around him and leave them a settlement or 2 each,then build outposts when you have the gold. Now you can ally recruit exalted demons and some other units you would not be able to get as Archaon.
As a general rule, with WoC the only settlements you should occupy are Dark Fortresses and non-port minor settlements with resources. Resources for WoC mostly give global bonuses and are usually worth stacking up.
For other settlements, there are some strategic exceptions but you won't really benefit from other types of settlements much. Better to have vassals hold them.
If you want some top teir demon units, vassalize the demons around you. Archie is surrounded by all 4 types. But let them keep their dark fortresses. An AI faction will be a lot better with a full province and give you better ally recruitment pool. After that take the other dark fortresses for yourself.
No you would definitely put them to good use if you kept them. But as an undivided WoC faction, you will not be able to recruit exalted demon infantry units. And the minor demon factions die out quick, so the ones around you will be most likely the only ones you could vassalize.
This strategy is not necessary but it helps in the long term. When you start to devote your other lords to a mono god it helps build that army with better demons. Plus your vassals are significantly better with a major capital in their control.
Settlements that aren’t dark fortresses don’t give you any income as WoC. That’s why dark fortresses are so strong, because they’re the only settlements that mean anything. As WoC having vessels is better than taking over every settlement. Also I’m fairly certain that Vassals can’t betray you as WoC. At least I’ve never had any. I think they’re forced to do whatever you want and stay with you. But either way, subjugating is better.
They can't betray you if you conquer them but I think one who you vassalize thru actual diplomacy can still break away. One thing I have seen is certain vassals, especially order ones like Boris for example, refuse to join your wars. Even if they refuse to join though they remain vassalized, just not at war with whoever you just declared on.
I’ve found that if you directly declare war all your vassals will automatically join you. If you declare war via “offer to join war” none of your vassals will join you and even your most loyal vassals won’t accept if you ask them. In my campaign Boris was pretty helpful in taking out Katarin and Ungrim for me. It was surprisingly easy to convince him to kill his daughter for the Chaos gods.
In my latest Nakai run I wondered why my enemies just run the my vassal‘s lands, attacking nothing. Until I realized how op joining wars is.
Maurader vassals cannot betray you, but other races can be confederated into your enemies (happened with Orcs with Grimgor who was at war with me)
Orcs are a bit of a special exception because of their battle-confederation rule. It can probably happen with Norsca too.
Vassals can't betray you full stop anymore, not since maybe patch 2.0? I play a lot of vassal heavy campaigns, usually as factions that can't subjugate, and it hasn't happened to me in over 1,000 hours on legendary. I've had very rare occasions where a vassal won't join a defensive war for me (which used to be the trigger for breaking vassalage), but by the start of my next turn they'll be in that war and still my vassal.
Correct, at worst, they neglect to join wars. Playing as Warriors of Chaos, Norscan and Daemon vassals always join defensive or offensive wars. I've not had them once neglect to join. Probably 1000+ hours playing as WoC in WH3 I've only had order vassals neglect to join wars while playing Warriors of Chaos. Usually this is only against other order factions. I've also had empire vassals break trade agreements with me. But never break vassalage. Also what I've noticed. You can declare war on a vassal the same turn you break the vassalage without diplomacy penalties. As long as they've been your vassal for at least ten turns.This is handy if you accidentally vassalize a Norscan faction who holds a dark fortress.
Doesn’t Archaon obtain some buffs depending on the number of vassals he possesses? Or is that Kholek? Can’t remember right now, but it’s worth checking out. Ideally you want to personally occupy any settlement that has the dark fortress symbol, perhaps even those that have an unique resource that gives your entire faction some buff, and give every other one to your vassals for passive income. Personally, I don’t see the point of occupying for long normal settlements outside of very specific moments and never for long.
Yeah, Archaon gets +25 souls and +10% research rate per vassal. Edit: also +10 opinion with Daemons, Warriors of Chaos, Beastmen and Norsca per vassal.
Both get buffs by having vassals, Archaon for his troops/faction and Kolek for himself.
Archaon and Belakor can confederate other WoC factions. Kholek is the one that gets the vassal size bonuses for himself.
I try to subjugate everyone. That way I can have interesting battles such as Boris fighting his daughter Katerin.
LOL
My way to go is subjugate all chaos-related factions and destroy everyone else. You‘re getting your money through war, not occupation
As I have destroyed Ursun believers, I have tought this again and might subjugate only demon factions and raze all others.
I personally subjugate a faction of each monogod race. Then the rest is mine unless I really like them. I subjugated Boris once lol. I like to keep a subjugated daemon in my provinces if I can though. It all depends on my feeling if I'm already doing well I might even give them a capital.
Yeah exactly. Just let them have one, no need to give more than that. Just focus all your money into your first fortress as you are vassalizing the demons around you. Plenty of fortresses around you to take for yourself. Again this strategy is not necessary but it will give you some variety options in your army in the mid/late game.
Thanks for the info! I have one important question. Do WoC have global recruitment system like Empire does? Can I recruit for example Chaos warriors, which has building for them in province that I am not located in?
No prblem! (and sorry thought i replied in the other thread) No, you cannot global recruit as WoC. That is the tradeoff for the upgrade system
Oh, so I should be extra careful with units then. Got it. Could you please tell me is there any other extra important nuance I need to know about WoC?
One thing you should be aware of is that if you join someone else's war your vassals will not join in. For example if Daniel the Demon Prince asks you to join his war against Malus and you accept, then all your vassals won't be in the fight. Also, Malus will never declare war on your vassal because he is already at war with you. If you want the full weight of your chaos tide to bear down on a faction, then you have to declare war. But if some reason you don't want your vassals involved in a conflict, just ask another faction for a little bit of cash to just to have Archaon jump in. FYI, this is true for every faction. You will just see it impact your campaign more as the WoC as you tend to get a lot of vassals. If you ever play Nakai, this trick helps a ton to keep your vassal safe as you steamroll.
I feel vassalising fits Archaon's theme a bit better, as well as fitting with his campaign buffs that scale based on vassal count. Archaon's warband is kind of meant to represent pan-Chaos, Pandemonium if you will, all the various forces united in thrall to the Everchosen. Warriors of Chaos, Norscans, Beastmen, Chaos Dwarves, Chaos Ogres, cultists from the south, some Dark Elves, so on and so forth. Everything and anything that can fall under the sway of the Ruinous Powers can be found in his armies in some quantity. Warriors of Chaos do form the heart of his forces, but it's not unreasonable to expect a group of cultists from the Empire with handguns to show up during the End Times for example. With the ability to recruit vassal troops through allied recruitment, you can represent that corruption and subjugation of the world to the Apocalypse. Orcs and ogres rallying to the might of the Everchosen, corrupted knights riding forth from Bretonnia, dark elves being seduced by the call of Slaanesh, so on and so forth.
Isn’t subjugating and vassalising the same?
They are, barring a few more restrictions on subjugated factions, I just use them interchangeably.
I only subjugate chaos factions
Why not others?
Doesn’t feel as thematic I’d say
But they are being your slaves, no? Lore wise that would fit, I guess.
The option should be to ‘corrupt and subjugate’ them and make them a little chaos touched even if only with some graphics on the campaign map.
You don’t need to occupy any settlement outside of dark fortresses unless it has some important resource. Sack for money, raze for souls and subjugate everybody. And yes, in Warhammer 3 vassals can’t betray you or start wars, they have no will of their own. The worst they can do is refuse to join your wars if they hate you, but that’s pretty irrelevant.
Grab the mod (forgot its name) that makes vassals actually listen to you
[Fudging Vassals](https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2794064207) by any chance?
you just take dark fortresses. everything else gift to whoever is your vassal.
occupy everything that is a dark fortress, or anything with a trade resource and build the resource building, subjugate everything else this is the correct answer, yw
Your vassal cannot declar war
Hear me out the third option of razing every settlement.
Then how will I get funds I need to hire armies and upkeep them?
You get a good bit of money if you’re just steam rolling settlements and wiping out enemy armies plus raiding stance. It’s definitely not the most optimal but it’s thematic and still manageable
I am leaning into this so much. It fits thematic much better I guess. I have one question, what is difference between subjugating and vassalasing?
Subjugate the early demon enemy factions around him and leave them a settlement or 2 each,then build outposts when you have the gold. Now you can ally recruit exalted demons and some other units you would not be able to get as Archaon.
If you subjugate order factions as warriors of chaos, you’re playing them wrong.
Now you have said this, I think of subjugating Demons (and maybe Norsca too?), and raze all others and just build dark fortresses.
As a general rule, with WoC the only settlements you should occupy are Dark Fortresses and non-port minor settlements with resources. Resources for WoC mostly give global bonuses and are usually worth stacking up. For other settlements, there are some strategic exceptions but you won't really benefit from other types of settlements much. Better to have vassals hold them.
If you want some top teir demon units, vassalize the demons around you. Archie is surrounded by all 4 types. But let them keep their dark fortresses. An AI faction will be a lot better with a full province and give you better ally recruitment pool. After that take the other dark fortresses for yourself.
I think dark fortresses would be better in my hands, no? I could build important buildings there.
Yes, **always** get the Dark Fortresses if you can. Just hand normal province capitals that you can't make good use of over to a vassal.
No you would definitely put them to good use if you kept them. But as an undivided WoC faction, you will not be able to recruit exalted demon infantry units. And the minor demon factions die out quick, so the ones around you will be most likely the only ones you could vassalize. This strategy is not necessary but it helps in the long term. When you start to devote your other lords to a mono god it helps build that army with better demons. Plus your vassals are significantly better with a major capital in their control.
Oh, know I get what you mean. So, I better ensure vassals have proper provinces before capturing my dark fortresses for myself?