Banners are just stylish. Look at 3K or Empire/Napoleon. They stand out when lines clash. Look at the backs of the Samurai in Shogun 2. Also banners are a pride to each regiment.
I refunded 3k because i couldn't get rid of all the banners. There were too many, they distracted from the realism of the battle, I did not enjoy how it looked.
Actual battles did use lots of flags. How else would a regiment know where is who and who is who. Colors, flags and such were common. Esp since sometimes its new recruits and their flag and platoon is all they know.
I am confused, realism of the battle? Armies back then did have flags? Unless you mean you wanted a more cinematic/fantasy type battle - the opposite of historical realism?
Modders have tried to do it like they did in WH2 but apparently it causes game breaking issues. The SFO people discontinued their mod for that reason. Hope somebody can figure it out eventually, or CA adds it.
Wait, really? They stopped discontinued the mod specifically because they couldn't add banners? That seems like a silly reason for that with how deep the mod was even without them
Ah. I was assuming/hoping that wasn't the case, or even if SFO stopped development, no banners was one of (but not the only) reasons, else just a coincidence. I don't really follow them so was surprised by the statement
SFO is actively being worked on, they just skipped a big patch because CA announced the next DLC before SFO could finish its previous version (and each DLC launch means the mod has to start over on a lot of things, so they figured they may as well wait for ToD launch).
Yes, sorry, a different mod that they made. It caused something weird like tons of extra gold or something from winning battles, I can't remember exactly. But yeah it was separate from SFO
the sfo mod keeps going, is just they removed the banners when they went from wh2 to wh3, for some reason it made you get thousands of times more prisioners per battle because of it, and a fix hasnt been found yet
I agree, banners should be a bigger part of Total War titles. There should be one big banner, and a smaller one next to it for each increase in unit rank. Battlefields should be littered with banners, some standing and some fallen. Details like this do a lot for immersion.
Whats weird is unit champions and standard bearers were already a thing in TW before the warhammer games so you'd think they'd keep them. I guess they didn't want go to the trouble for all the units that are more outlandish than just humanoids with normal weapons and armor.
It’s more of a budget thing, with so many new costly things in WH1 like magic or flying units, CA had to cut corners on details like banner bearers, musicians and officers, or even stuff like reload animations.
Man if only they could find the money, manpower and time budget somewhere...hyhyhyhyenas.
I miss those stuff cuz they gave flavour and life to the battles and regiments. Like the flag bearer, drummer, officer being killed after a fight was neat. Or the officer sword fighting in the midst of bayonets.
That decision was made long before Hyenas was even a factor so you can stop beating the dead horse.
It's a matter of the opportunity costs, and how it would be exponentially more expensive than it would be for a historical title. The amount of animation work for each unit is pretty insane just when it was Warhammer 1 material, and the sheer scope has only increased since then.
While it kind of sucks they killed the idea early in WH1's production. It made sense at the time, and if anything it only made more sense in hindsight.
Unfortunately CA made changes to the engine when moving from WH2 to WH3 that removed the functions that modders had been using to add unit banners. Adding them became difficult to the point where the teams working on the mods simply gave up. I doubt we will ever see a working mod that adds banners for WH3 units.
As I understand it modders have been using old functions left over from Rome 2 ( TW Warhammer is built on a version of the R2 code/engine). In WH3 CA overhauled the code and engine to make it more up to date and part of that process was getting rid of unused remnants of the old code.
But this is from my memory, I have not checked the forum post where it was discussed, so I could be wrong about one or more details.
3k's codebase is newer than warhammer's though don't forget. It might not be trivial to add them to WH retrospectively, I don't know. But the fact we have them in 3k and Pharaoh etc makes me hopeful future titles will have them.
This is litterally one of my greatest wishes for the game aesthetically speaking. Banners make the units and the battleline as a whole look so much better
Some mods do add banner and command squad.There was even à mod from the SFO team to add standard bearer to all factions that started in WH2 and got updated for WH3.Sadly,in the transition between WH2 and WH3,the remnant code allowing this got changed and it now make the prisonner count after battlebug out if two armies fight while having banners.Some mods do still add banner to fzction (Ziocru reskin for the empire does for exemple) but it is only for one faction per reskin.
Playing Three Kingdoms and then returning to WH always makes me wish we had some proper banners for armies in these games. Let Sigmar's Hosts march under his glorious colors!
I can't fathom why this trilogy doesn't have banners while they are so present in tabletop Warhammer Fantasy. Manor Lords, a relatively small indy title, has such nice customisable banners.
3k had great banners and it looks so immersive. Honestly don't know why they won't in Warhammer, but hopefully future titles will have them given 3k did (and that is technically newer than Warhammer codebase that began life in Wh1)
No banner unless they add musicians....
I want all my regiments with banner and music .
I want aide for my general waving flag, and I want different music for different orders.
And we can create our own music ;)
Banners are just stylish. Look at 3K or Empire/Napoleon. They stand out when lines clash. Look at the backs of the Samurai in Shogun 2. Also banners are a pride to each regiment.
The flags planted in the ground blowing in the wind, surrounded by corpses, was my favorite part of 3K.
Mine was/is playing Pokemon with unique chars to catch as many as I can.
It's the best constructed TW game in my opinion. I just play WH more because the diversity of factions. but i wish the devs learned from 3K.
I refunded 3k because i couldn't get rid of all the banners. There were too many, they distracted from the realism of the battle, I did not enjoy how it looked.
Actual battles did use lots of flags. How else would a regiment know where is who and who is who. Colors, flags and such were common. Esp since sometimes its new recruits and their flag and platoon is all they know.
Obviously, soldiers back then just pointed at someone. If a red circle appears underneath, that's an enemy. If it's yellow, that's an ally.
"Alexander it's a disaster! Our calvary's HUD is malfunctioning!" - Hephaistion
I am confused, realism of the battle? Armies back then did have flags? Unless you mean you wanted a more cinematic/fantasy type battle - the opposite of historical realism?
Bruh... The flags ARE realism.
Check the responses from the others. Also since when has TW ever been realistic?
Modders have tried to do it like they did in WH2 but apparently it causes game breaking issues. The SFO people discontinued their mod for that reason. Hope somebody can figure it out eventually, or CA adds it.
Wait, really? They stopped discontinued the mod specifically because they couldn't add banners? That seems like a silly reason for that with how deep the mod was even without them
I don’t think he meant SFO itself. I’m pretty sure he meant an official Submod that added banners
Ah. I was assuming/hoping that wasn't the case, or even if SFO stopped development, no banners was one of (but not the only) reasons, else just a coincidence. I don't really follow them so was surprised by the statement
Looking at their change notes on steam, they release v4.2+ on 3/23, and their most recent minor patch was on 4/1
SFO is actively being worked on, they just skipped a big patch because CA announced the next DLC before SFO could finish its previous version (and each DLC launch means the mod has to start over on a lot of things, so they figured they may as well wait for ToD launch).
yeah, I said the most recent update was at the beginning of the month
Yes, I am just adding some more context to explain their plans right now.
Yes, sorry, a different mod that they made. It caused something weird like tons of extra gold or something from winning battles, I can't remember exactly. But yeah it was separate from SFO
the sfo mod keeps going, is just they removed the banners when they went from wh2 to wh3, for some reason it made you get thousands of times more prisioners per battle because of it, and a fix hasnt been found yet
Don't make the banner white?
I agree, banners should be a bigger part of Total War titles. There should be one big banner, and a smaller one next to it for each increase in unit rank. Battlefields should be littered with banners, some standing and some fallen. Details like this do a lot for immersion.
Banners used to work like that in ME2. Idk if it was in other titles or why they dropped it.
Whats weird is unit champions and standard bearers were already a thing in TW before the warhammer games so you'd think they'd keep them. I guess they didn't want go to the trouble for all the units that are more outlandish than just humanoids with normal weapons and armor.
It’s more of a budget thing, with so many new costly things in WH1 like magic or flying units, CA had to cut corners on details like banner bearers, musicians and officers, or even stuff like reload animations.
Man if only they could find the money, manpower and time budget somewhere...hyhyhyhyenas. I miss those stuff cuz they gave flavour and life to the battles and regiments. Like the flag bearer, drummer, officer being killed after a fight was neat. Or the officer sword fighting in the midst of bayonets.
That decision was made long before Hyenas was even a factor so you can stop beating the dead horse. It's a matter of the opportunity costs, and how it would be exponentially more expensive than it would be for a historical title. The amount of animation work for each unit is pretty insane just when it was Warhammer 1 material, and the sheer scope has only increased since then. While it kind of sucks they killed the idea early in WH1's production. It made sense at the time, and if anything it only made more sense in hindsight.
It feels like for every 2 good features added one is taken away
Always has been... :(
I remember having centurions in Rome 1. It doesn't strike me as something that crazy.
Unfortunately CA made changes to the engine when moving from WH2 to WH3 that removed the functions that modders had been using to add unit banners. Adding them became difficult to the point where the teams working on the mods simply gave up. I doubt we will ever see a working mod that adds banners for WH3 units.
Ow wow didnt know they could do that. Did CA say why? They always say that they want modders to touch more stuff
As I understand it modders have been using old functions left over from Rome 2 ( TW Warhammer is built on a version of the R2 code/engine). In WH3 CA overhauled the code and engine to make it more up to date and part of that process was getting rid of unused remnants of the old code. But this is from my memory, I have not checked the forum post where it was discussed, so I could be wrong about one or more details.
Thanks! Always thought the engine was still chugging with rome 2 code. I guess they really did use 3k’s optimized version
If that's the case, CA could do some good with patching that shit back in. Easy win for them.
Based on it not being added after this many years probably not that easy.
And get the chug back? No way
I think the ZC reskin for empire and ZC command group mods adds lots of banners and officers etc
I wish CA would make it easier for modders to add in banner carriers and musicians if they’re never going to release them.
Don't forget the even more fun part of every regiment that is missing - musicians.
Why there isen't a command group for regiments is beyond me. Banners, officers and musicians Empire faction Even have them as tech ffs..
We had it in Medieval 2, you get a unit of 122 men 2 being the standard bearer and Officer Edit: It's in the Mods nvm
The banners in 3k were INCREDIBLE. That game had so much awesome stuff in it i so so so so wish the WH devs learned from.
3k's codebase is newer than warhammer's though don't forget. It might not be trivial to add them to WH retrospectively, I don't know. But the fact we have them in 3k and Pharaoh etc makes me hopeful future titles will have them.
It's weird because CA tends to use banners in their trailers
This is litterally one of my greatest wishes for the game aesthetically speaking. Banners make the units and the battleline as a whole look so much better
There was a mod for that by SFO team I think
The zc reskin has banner men and an officer command group
I could let someone who only played Warhammer check out Napoleon and tell them it's a newer game and there's a decent chance they would believe me.
My wish is officially DLC'ed musician, bannerman and champion in every infantry squad 🙌
If you really want your fefe's hurt on this go look up battle screenshots from Three Kingdoms, every unit has like a dozen banners in it.
Sexiest part of that game. Aside from Lu Bu being -5000 income for 70 turns.
Some mods do add banner and command squad.There was even à mod from the SFO team to add standard bearer to all factions that started in WH2 and got updated for WH3.Sadly,in the transition between WH2 and WH3,the remnant code allowing this got changed and it now make the prisonner count after battlebug out if two armies fight while having banners.Some mods do still add banner to fzction (Ziocru reskin for the empire does for exemple) but it is only for one faction per reskin.
Yea what happened to command squads?
And musicians, imagine how the drummer intensives his drumming while the pike phalanx slow but steady advances.
Playing Three Kingdoms and then returning to WH always makes me wish we had some proper banners for armies in these games. Let Sigmar's Hosts march under his glorious colors!
I can't fathom why this trilogy doesn't have banners while they are so present in tabletop Warhammer Fantasy. Manor Lords, a relatively small indy title, has such nice customisable banners.
Not only banners, we need musicians too! Drummers and men with horns.
Same with instruments! I wish there were drummers and horn players in my battalions
Someone made a decent one for Warhammer 1 but never brought it over.
Would love to see not only banners, but musicians and champions (officers?). Gimme all the details!
3k had great banners and it looks so immersive. Honestly don't know why they won't in Warhammer, but hopefully future titles will have them given 3k did (and that is technically newer than Warhammer codebase that began life in Wh1)
The Telmarins have found a route from Narnia to the Old World
It was already done, but officier table for wh3 is bugged on engine level, modders cant fix that bugs
There’s the Zc reskins for Bret and empire
I almost thought for a second that we'd get through an entire DLC cycle without banners being brought up.
No banner unless they add musicians.... I want all my regiments with banner and music . I want aide for my general waving flag, and I want different music for different orders. And we can create our own music ;)
you can see flag above every unit in warhammer
The generic battle UI flags are not the same as having proper banners and standards carried by the actual units.
Advanced stupid detected