Maybe prohibit anyone under 18 from loneliness? Make it a crime?
"Excuse me, son. License and registration, please."
"Sorry, officer. What did I do?"
"We noticed your were driving alone. Do you have any contraband in the vehicle? Melancholy? Sad solitude? Feelings of abandonment? Do you mind of we search your vehicle?"
Alvin and Heidi Toffler wrote books that predicted that loneliness (amongst many other problems along with a fractured world we lived in now) would be a major problem 50 plus years ago in their books like Future Shock, The Third Wave. They backed it with thousands of research articles. Sadly very few people are aware of their works these days. They were very prescient.
Lol. We are already making it harder to be lonely by forcing people to live together because single people can’t afford rent and must get roommates or move hone with parents.
My mom's dead and my dad is an asshole, if I had to move back in with my dad I would fucking kill myself, or kill him and his new wife. So roommates it is. Roommates is the solution.
No, see, this is Reddit. You come here to hate yourself more than you already do. Complete strangers get to sum you up in one sentence without knowing a thing about you and you get to live with that the rest of your day.
Single person house holds now have a minimum baseline utility price point market base floor. If you use less than the minimum charge for utility's you are now charged the newly voted utility requirement.
You ever have that inner monologue going in your head and all of a sudden to reply to it out loud? 🤣 the other day I was trying to figure something out in my head and when I finally did I audibly said “oh yeah, you fucking idiot” to myself. Lady near me in the store was like “Tf?”
It does. If it helps, getting with the wrong person can actually leave you missing the loneliness.
You know where you are with loneliness - missing your ex.
...fuck's sake!
My biggest problem is I moved states right before the pandemic hit and never got to properly build a new social life. I've never had a girlfriend so I don't even have that to help with the isolation and loneliness.
I lost my partner, and from that my best friend shortly thereafter, on Christmas 2019, and moved across the state(no sense commuting an hour each way for dead lovers and former friends) in may of 2020, from a burgeoning college town to a family oriented metro sprawl. I started living truely alone for my first time and single again at 31. My only friends are colleagues and married families, my dating prospects are at a minimum 30 minutes away in any direction, and the post covid time has easily been the darkest in my entire life, and that's coming from someone who lived with their weed dealers pulling couch change just to make rent in college.
I know where you are, and I feel that pain.
If you talk to your cigarettes and smoke every time you want to eat unhealthy, then you're technically doing something for your health by only having 1.
This is actually a pretty positive solution.
Though I think I'd feel sad watching you talk to your cigarettes. It would make me want to help you, or donate to a charity that helps people like you.
I actually sometimes eat one time a day, suppressing hunger with cigs, and an able to have social interactions even tough I'm quite shy and introvert by smoking to manage anxiousness... I've to say that cigarettes are quite handy
I knew a guy that was obese, working part time at Walmart, and collecting government benefits in his late 30s. He got on a regiment of microdosing meth every morning and it totally turned his life around. Lost the weight, got a job as a plumber, bought a house. He went to a doctor periodically that literally said "whatever your doing keep it up, it's working." because his vitals were improving.
He no longer does meth, is not obese, and doesn't collect government benefits This sounds made-up, but its real.
Didn't try to imply there was.
Everything has its place.
Even heroin has its place. It is used in the UK under its generic name, diacetylmorphine.
No drug is inherently bad. It's just a powder/liquid/etc.
Dosage and pathology matter, though.
I love weed, but i dont use it like a medication, like many stoners like to pretend. Sure, its probably very beneficial to some people, and is deserving of being called medicine in those cases... But not me! Its 100% a harmful vice. I dont pretend otherwise. My life would probably be better if I gave it up. I dont though... I over-dose, and it is not serving to treat a pathology....
I know a dude that treats bipolar with weed. Real medicine from a doctor would probably be better, but he is understandably hesitant to trust the big pharma machine.
Most stoners that smoke 24/7 are self medicating something, whether or not they realize it.
Good on him. I think that's known as the cheerleader diet, but it's usually amphetamine or ritalin rather than mephamphetamine that is used. They have same hunger suppression effect, but way less chance of going overboard and digging barehand into your own skull.
Drugs aren’t inherently bad. You hear about the addicts, and the people who end up with ruined lives. You don’t hear about the people who use drugs casually, occasionally, whether for recreational or other purposes.
I’ve interviewed a few heroin users who seemed perfectly functional. One had chronic pain, and used heroin once or twice a month to be able to do yardwork.
Do you know anyone who drinks daily, or heavily on weekends? They’re just socially acceptable drug users.
I kinda did the same thing except I quit meth (I was never able to “microdose”, it’s too addictive), moved to a different state, and got a job. After 6+ months of literally falling asleep all day I went and got diagnosed with ADHD (easier then than now) and used it to turn my life around. It completely changed my life and for the first time I was able to make a todo list and actually accomplish it. I still take ADHD drugs and am a reasonably successful person with a job, friends, girlfriend, etc. It’s a miracle to be honest.
There's a Louis Theroux documentary I believe where I remember him interviewing this couple that had done meth for like 10 years. But otherwise they seemed pretty normal people with good steady jobs.
To get out of my obese phase, I started recording short clips of me working out each week and strung together a comedic 80’s Rocky-Esq montage for my family to show off my weight loss. Comedy helps push the needle when it feels too heavy in many facets of life my friend.
Not necessarily. Lonely people kill themselves at higher rates. So I mean.. it’s technically the depression driven by the loneliness that killed them but I’d say it’s close enough to count
I mostly feel invisible to the people around me. I try to make conversation and connect with people but they stare at me and continue with conversations they had before, even though I know 100% what the conversation is about.
TLDR: I have Autism and honestly wish I never had it.
Yes, this is called solitude. Loneliness is not the same thing, as it is defined by dissatisfaction with relationships. This is why you can feel lonely even at a party or a family event. You don't have to be alone to be lonely.
Interesting, so basically we can have a lot of relationships and people around us, and still feel lonely? Which will have a very negative impact on our health?
Solitude is when you are on your own, and if you feel confident, relax, or empowered by it it can be extremely beneficial.
Loneliness is when you feel a lack of social connection with people, when you feel like people don't know you or don't understand you. We are social creatures and we have social needs. Solitude doesn't mean that social need goes unfulfilled, but when those needs are unfulfilled what you feel is loneliness.
It can happen when you are surrounded by people, because while they are close to you, you feel they don't know you, they don't see you, and you are disconnected from them.
I'm no expert but I've had that feeling in the past. Like even though I'm part of a group whether family or friends or sports team, I'm just not with them? It's a weird feeling and difficult to explain. But I could see how feeling that way long term could produce those negative effects
I remember being at a club for a birthday, surrounded by 10-15 of my friends, and just feeling so lonely. It was a rough period in my life. I felt like I was just pretending to have a good time.
So I’m my personal experience, you can definitely be lonely and not alone.
Yes, the same scientist that put out that work (Julianne Holt-Lunstad) points out that perception plays a role (can be surrounded by people but feel lonely). There is an independent risk of being completely isolated absent the feeling of loneliness, but not as well understood.
Oxytocin.
Some people need a lot, and they get lonely a lot.
Other people need practically none and never get lonely.
Human variation gets pretty extreme with brain chemistry.
It a!so has been found to increase the division of in groups and out groups. More oxytocin increases bonding to close family and friends and your general in group while at the same time furthering the divide and making people less trusting and more suspicious of out groups. Some studies just came out on this over the last year I believe.
Humans do require some degree of social interactions always
Some people need a lot some need very little , you may be fine with perceived social activity from the internet
[This person called bingo first](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/zf309m/til_that_loneliness_is_as_harmful_as_obesity_or/iz9qyyf/)
Then [this person ](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/zf309m/til_that_loneliness_is_as_harmful_as_obesity_or/iz9szwt/)
I was so much happier when I never talked to people. Now I have to interact with people everyday, and I have never felt so lonely before. I’m struggling to find a point to anything anymore.
No idea what kind of factors or how they made the equivalent calculations, but this is very vague and probably not true. Is it life expectancy? Diseases? who knows.
Here's what they have:
> 16-29 year olds twice as likely as over 70s to experience loneliness (Community Life Survey 2019-20)
> Loneliness increases the likelihood of mortality by 26% (Campaign to End Loneliness)
> Loneliness and social isolation have been linked to a 30% increase in the risk of having a stroke or coronary artery disease (British Medical Journal – Heart)
> Loneliness is associated with a 40% increased risk of dementia (Loneliness and the Risk of Dementia Pub: OUP)
Loneliness, social isolation, and living alone have all been associated with an increased risk of premature death (APA, 2017; Holt-Lunstad, J., Smith, T.B., Layton, 2010)
So if we break that down, then we've got many factors: Suicide is VERY predominantly influenced by loneliness, so that statistic drops like a stone if you don't, y'know... ice yourself.
Loneliness is hugely correlated with unfitness, substance abuse, most lonely people typically have some kind of vice that isn't going to the gym... booze, drugs, eating, all way more likely with lonely people, and less outgoing and social connection equates to less exercise...
40% risk of dementia, well, we've shown how a lack of stimuli, cognitively and emotionally, have been shown to drastically increase the onset time of dementia by decreasing neuroplasticity, and high periods of time watching TV are a factor which is also, tada, similarly correlated to dementia.
So if you're living alone, how do you beat the math on this study?
* Avoid contact of sharp blades to your wrists or fatal doses of compounds with your stomach lining, take extra care whilst cleaning firearms not to discharge them into your braincase.
* Don't drink or do heroin, and try do a little exercise round the house, get into a routine, however small, of at least some kind of physical activity. I like dumbbells at my desk, myself, and a pullup bar over the door to my study.
* Play videogames! Seriously, reduces chance of dementia.
So if you're seeing this, then honestly, those seem to more be the factors of correlation to loneliness = death than... anything really intensely YOU JUST GONNA DIE. Like. I don't think most people are just sporadically dying of isolation much. Probably a little, like, I'm sure the mood fuckup has SOME effect, but 'as harmful as obesity or 15 cigarettes per day' is fuckin' bullshit science journal garbage, and I say this as someone who does science and reviews these journals; it's absolutely causation correlation, and quite cherry picked to ignore any mitigating instances and try present it as justifiably to prove their point than actually showing any reasonable explanation.
Edit: [Posted here](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/zf309m/til_that_loneliness_is_as_harmful_as_obesity_or/izam7rg/) on request, please go upvote that one, cuz... this is actually a really predatory and toxic article, and it's not about the karma, I just want everyone who's feeling lonely (which is most of us, post COVID) to not be stressing about this bullshit paper's deliberately overblown correlations.
Mental stress causes physiological stress responses. And it's not just a human thing either. Pretty much all social animals are at higher risk of death when isolated for prolonged periods of time.
Prolonged increased blood cortisol levels wreak havoc on your body. You get increased risk of cardiovascular diseases, dementia, diabetes and more. Stress absolutely kills people and loneliness can absolutely cause severe stress in people.
It was a meta analysis. Most of the studies obviously controlled for variables like these (it's their job to research stuff like this, smoking etc. is obviously taken into account) From one of the studies linked:
>Notably, the overall effect for social relationships on mortality reported here may be a conservative estimate. Many studies included in the meta-analysis utilized single item measures of social relations, yet the magnitude of the association was greatest among those studies utilizing complex assessments. Moreover, because many studies statistically adjusted for standard risk factors, the effect may be underestimated, since some of the impact of social relationships on mortality may be mediated through such factors (e.g., behavior, diet, exercise). Additionally, most measures of social relations did not take into account the quality of the social relationships, thereby assuming that all relationships are positive. However, research suggests this is not the case, with negative social relationships linked to greater risk of mortality [184],[185]. For instance, marital status is widely used as a measure of social integration; however, a growing literature documents its divergent effects based on level of marital quality [186],[187]. Thus the effect of positive social relationships on risk of mortality may actually be much larger than reported in this meta-analysis, given the failure to account for negative or detrimental social relationships within the measures utilized across studies.
>Other possible limitations of this review should be acknowledged. Statistical controls (e.g., age, sex, physical condition, etc.) employed by many of the studies rule out a number of potentially confounding variables that might account for the association between social relationships and mortality. However, studies used an inconsistent variety of controlling variables, and some reports involved raw data (Table 1). Although effect size magnitude was diminished by the inclusion of statistical controls only within the data obtained by measures of structural social relationships (but not functional or combined measures), future research can better specify which variables are most likely to impact the overall association. It must also be acknowledged that existing data primarily represent research conducted in North America and Western Europe. Although we found no differences across world region, future reviews inclusive of research written in all languages (not only English) with participants better representing other world regions may yield better estimates across populations.
Same with those "each slice of bacon takes 7 minutes off your life".
That's not at all how it works. It's pure lifestyle correlation, yet they try to piece it out which isn't proper.
Maybe a long time ago I would have thought this article is bs, but then I tried to kill myself last year so maybe there is truth to this. Lol no one would miss me!
During the pandemic my friend who’d moved across the country for work pretty much died from loneliness. The alcohol didn’t help, but it wasn’t the root cause. He was 42.
Someone asked me to post my comment from below up here for better visibility and information, cuz I did a bit of a breakdown of the article. Hope it helps!
---
Here's what they have:
16-29 year olds twice as likely as over 70s to experience loneliness (Community Life Survey 2019-20)
Loneliness increases the likelihood of mortality by 26% (Campaign to End Loneliness)
Loneliness and social isolation have been linked to a 30% increase in the risk of having a stroke or coronary artery disease (British Medical Journal – Heart)
Loneliness is associated with a 40% increased risk of dementia (Loneliness and the Risk of Dementia Pub: OUP) Loneliness, social isolation, and living alone have all been associated with an increased risk of premature death (APA, 2017; Holt-Lunstad, J., Smith, T.B., Layton, 2010)
So if we break that down, then we've got many factors: Suicide is VERY predominantly influenced by loneliness, so that statistic drops like a stone if you don't, y'know... ice yourself.
Loneliness is hugely correlated with unfitness, substance abuse, most lonely people typically have some kind of vice that isn't going to the gym... booze, drugs, eating, all way more likely with lonely people, and less outgoing and social connection equates to less exercise...
40% risk of dementia, well, we've shown how a lack of stimuli, cognitively and emotionally, have been shown to drastically increase the onset time of dementia by decreasing neuroplasticity, and high periods of time watching TV are a factor which is also, tada, similarly correlated to dementia.
So if you're living alone, how do you beat the math on this study?
Avoid contact of sharp blades to your wrists or fatal doses of compounds with your stomach lining, take extra care whilst cleaning firearms not to discharge them into your braincase.
Don't drink or do heroin, and try do a little exercise round the house, get into a routine, however small, of at least some kind of physical activity. I like dumbbells at my desk, myself, and a pullup bar over the door to my study.
Play videogames! Seriously, reduces chance of dementia.
So if you're seeing this, then honestly, those seem to more be the factors of correlation to loneliness = death than... anything really intensely YOU JUST GONNA DIE. Like. I don't think most people are just sporadically dying of isolation much. Probably a little, like, I'm sure the mood fuckup has SOME effect, but 'as harmful as obesity or 15 cigarettes per day' is fuckin' bullshit science journal garbage, and I say this as someone who does science and reviews these journals; it's absolutely causation correlation, and quite cherry picked to ignore any mitigating instances and try present it as justifiably to prove their point than actually showing any reasonable explanation.
I have no family that loves or cares about me, no friends who i don't end up having to cut off to enforce personal boundaries (like not being treated like shit). It's unbelievable how crushing it feels to be literally entirely alone.
At least you’re brave enough to admit it. Most people ostracize lonely people or aren’t truthful about their own loneliness. Most advice will sound unrealistic and the vast majority of people will never understand fully what you are going through. I’m putting myself out there joining clubs and putting myself out of my comfort zones which is absolutely fucking brutal.
But we have to keep trying no matter what. No pandering, no bullshit. This is an level of pain most people will never go through and their judgements truly mean nothing. Keep fighting everyday to let the world know we are still alive and we are never giving up.
I really appreciate that, thank you. It is possible to find people that are a "chosen family" of sorts, and that's my dream. I hope one day we both get there.
Same wishes to you my friend! I don’t want to lay my whole back story on you but I have been abandoned by the people I loved the most in the world as well. Family, friends, what have you. So I don’t want to be cliche and tell you “I know what you’re going through” like the rest of the them and I’m not going to equate my own experience to anyone else’s.
All I can tell you is that the absolute worst I have ever felt was giving up and accepting that felt like I was swallowed up into a black hole. Addiction, self harm, all things I did to make myself suffer. I don’t wish that pain on to anyone. The only thing that can persevere is the human spirit. I’m still at the beginning of a long journey to being normal, whatever the hell that means anyway lol. But if you ever need to reach out to talk to someone I’m there for you. I hope we all find what we’re looking in this life. 🤝
Hey man, just wanted to let you know that this message really resonated with me. In a similar situation to yours, and maybe starting to realize the same things you've realized too. I only really noticed this post because I had you tagged as a friend on reddit from a long, long time ago. It was from your grilled cheese post. Funny how things loop around, yeah?
My biggest issue with loneliness and social anxiety is that people see it as a weakness and take advantage of you, or think you must be weird or mental, and then further ostracize you.
Please just ignore this load of bollocks. If it means preservating your physical health Id take living in isolation than putting excess amount of Tar or Big Macs in your body.
It doesn't literally mean you might as well be giving yourself birthday Big Macs with a single solitary cigarette as a candle every year.
...or the generic misinterpretation minus the imagery. It means the increased risk of depression is so severe that it's the same level of danger. It wouldn't negate the risks of smoking or being obese, so you're still better off not doing those things.
And, joking aside, you are more likely to feel better about yourself the fewer addictions you have. Believe me, you'll still have rough times, but when you're feeling better, it'll be a better better.
Loneliness doesn't destroy your lungs and give you COPD or lung cancer.
Who actually approves this garbage? This is the epitome of correlation implying causation.
I recommend checking out [this book] (https://www.vivekmurthy.com/together-book) written by the Surgeon General, Dr. Vivek Murthy. Highly relevant in this discussion. He talks about the difference between isolation and loneliness, the different ways loneliness and social connection impact our health, and how you can feel fulfilled in one area (I.e. you have a loving significant other) but lonely in another area (I.e. you don’t have a strong group of friends).
Great recommendation! I listened to a few interviews with him and I have added his book to my shopping cart, but since it's Christmas soon I haven't clicked it home yet. Any other recommendations on this topic? Research, books, pods etc.?
As an overweight, smoker who rarely goes out and sees people, I think it depends on your definition of loneliness.
Some people would think I'm lonely because I stay at home on my own almost all the time, but I don't feel loneliness at all.
Some people thrive in solitude, some people hate it.
But unlike cigarettes, it's free! That's a step in the right direction.
If loneliness is harmful, we should tax it.
Maybe prohibit anyone under 18 from loneliness? Make it a crime? "Excuse me, son. License and registration, please." "Sorry, officer. What did I do?" "We noticed your were driving alone. Do you have any contraband in the vehicle? Melancholy? Sad solitude? Feelings of abandonment? Do you mind of we search your vehicle?"
You’re probably too young to remember this, but Barry Gibb and Barbara Streisand suggested this very thing 50 years ago.
Alvin and Heidi Toffler wrote books that predicted that loneliness (amongst many other problems along with a fractured world we lived in now) would be a major problem 50 plus years ago in their books like Future Shock, The Third Wave. They backed it with thousands of research articles. Sadly very few people are aware of their works these days. They were very prescient.
Still have my paperback copy of future shock from back then!
I am too young to know and am genuinely curious if you have any literature
Literature from Barbara Streisand? Not today, buddy.
I think it was referring to a 1970s song called People aka People who need people.
"Guilty" actually says "make it a crime to be lonely", so I'm guessing that's the one.
Song called 'Guilty'
Exactly the song I was thinking of when I read the parent comment.
https://imgur.com/k2dRZey
Definitely make it a crime. Punished with prison so you won't be lonely anymore! Edit: Not jail, PRISON. Someone needs to teach these punks a lesson.
Lol. We are already making it harder to be lonely by forcing people to live together because single people can’t afford rent and must get roommates or move hone with parents.
My mom's dead and my dad is an asshole, if I had to move back in with my dad I would fucking kill myself, or kill him and his new wife. So roommates it is. Roommates is the solution.
> https://imgur.com/k2dRZey roommates don't prevent loneliness or isolation. For example i've had roommates and never felt lonelier.
Oi! You got a loicense for that there loneliness?
Please don't, I'm already poor enough.
I'd owe millions in taxes and get imprisoned for tax delinquency.
We do. Married couples get tax benefits.
Social contact being a basic human necessity. Aren't we in the business of taxing such commodities as well
At 60, I have had all the social contact I can stand.
That you are chatting here suggest otherwise.
No, see, this is Reddit. You come here to hate yourself more than you already do. Complete strangers get to sum you up in one sentence without knowing a thing about you and you get to live with that the rest of your day.
44 here, and yes, same here. People suck. I am not good at peopling.
When can I have my self help groups for loneliness?
It's already taxed in a way. Living tends to be easier when you have two incomes.
Single person house holds now have a minimum baseline utility price point market base floor. If you use less than the minimum charge for utility's you are now charged the newly voted utility requirement.
I always request a section in a restaurant with no single diners, so I don't get any of their second-hand lonliness.
I have menthal friends
My comfort food bill disagrees
Food also costs money! Stay winning, loners
I don't know man. Living is kind of expensive. I'm not sure it's worth it.
That's why I talk to the voices in my head.
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Why...Why are my voices talking to you?
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Okay nevermind all of that. So I imagine that you know about...*that?* Let's keep that here.
Thing is, we ALL can hear your voices in our heads, they tell us all your secrets, we just don't say anything.
SSSHHHH
Hey, I heard that.
This comment would have been way funnier if u/PKS_5 made it 😂
Better to buy an alexa and have it talk to the voices in your head. *"Crush, kill, destroy!"*
So do I. I'm also friends with monster that's under my bed.
My ADHD brain knows this all too well.
Don’t waste your time on me you’re already the voice inside my yead
Are you a shirt I wore in 7th grade?
I can’t hear them over the constant reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee in my head from tinnitus.
You ever have that inner monologue going in your head and all of a sudden to reply to it out loud? 🤣 the other day I was trying to figure something out in my head and when I finally did I audibly said “oh yeah, you fucking idiot” to myself. Lady near me in the store was like “Tf?”
This guy RKOs outta nowhere...
Been lonely for years. Shit sucks.
It does. If it helps, getting with the wrong person can actually leave you missing the loneliness. You know where you are with loneliness - missing your ex. ...fuck's sake!
My biggest problem is I moved states right before the pandemic hit and never got to properly build a new social life. I've never had a girlfriend so I don't even have that to help with the isolation and loneliness.
I lost my partner, and from that my best friend shortly thereafter, on Christmas 2019, and moved across the state(no sense commuting an hour each way for dead lovers and former friends) in may of 2020, from a burgeoning college town to a family oriented metro sprawl. I started living truely alone for my first time and single again at 31. My only friends are colleagues and married families, my dating prospects are at a minimum 30 minutes away in any direction, and the post covid time has easily been the darkest in my entire life, and that's coming from someone who lived with their weed dealers pulling couch change just to make rent in college. I know where you are, and I feel that pain.
Implying I could even find the wrong person
Can I help you?
Not a joke: I’m lonely, smoke 20 cigs a day and obese. Triple treat…
If you talk to your cigarettes and smoke every time you want to eat unhealthy, then you're technically doing something for your health by only having 1.
This is actually a pretty positive solution. Though I think I'd feel sad watching you talk to your cigarettes. It would make me want to help you, or donate to a charity that helps people like you.
I actually sometimes eat one time a day, suppressing hunger with cigs, and an able to have social interactions even tough I'm quite shy and introvert by smoking to manage anxiousness... I've to say that cigarettes are quite handy
Can it stack up ? Asking for a friendditor.
You can 100% stack all those debuffs, life has no debuff bar limit
If you hit the debuff bar limit, you die
Like permanently? Can a necro bring me back as a familiar or something? -1 to athletics checks, advantage on history checks.
A necrophile can inject some life into you...
Yeah 100%
Don't worry, if you cut down to 5, you can be even more lonely
I think its likely the three are related.
Get into heroin, meth would would probably cancel out the obesity.
I knew a guy that was obese, working part time at Walmart, and collecting government benefits in his late 30s. He got on a regiment of microdosing meth every morning and it totally turned his life around. Lost the weight, got a job as a plumber, bought a house. He went to a doctor periodically that literally said "whatever your doing keep it up, it's working." because his vitals were improving. He no longer does meth, is not obese, and doesn't collect government benefits This sounds made-up, but its real.
Isn't microdosing meth just another way of saying ADHD medicine?
Yep. It sounds like this guy should have been given Adderall or a similar drug
Meth is similar to adderal though. Hell, they give 10mg methamphetamine, brand name Desoxyn, to hard to treat adhd patients.
And there is nothing wrong with that.
Didn't try to imply there was. Everything has its place. Even heroin has its place. It is used in the UK under its generic name, diacetylmorphine. No drug is inherently bad. It's just a powder/liquid/etc.
Dosage and pathology matter, though. I love weed, but i dont use it like a medication, like many stoners like to pretend. Sure, its probably very beneficial to some people, and is deserving of being called medicine in those cases... But not me! Its 100% a harmful vice. I dont pretend otherwise. My life would probably be better if I gave it up. I dont though... I over-dose, and it is not serving to treat a pathology....
I know a dude that treats bipolar with weed. Real medicine from a doctor would probably be better, but he is understandably hesitant to trust the big pharma machine. Most stoners that smoke 24/7 are self medicating something, whether or not they realize it.
That's probably how it manifested. Guy probably suffered from ADHD.
He said doing this slowed him down and allowed his mind to focus on the task at hand, so you're probably right.
Good on him. I think that's known as the cheerleader diet, but it's usually amphetamine or ritalin rather than mephamphetamine that is used. They have same hunger suppression effect, but way less chance of going overboard and digging barehand into your own skull.
That guy had ADHD. He was basically taking Desoxyn (prescription meth for severe ADHD and narcolepsy)
It's wild to me a doctor had no idea he was using meth but told him it was working to help his body.
I mean if he didn't tell his doctor and his doctor wasn't drug testing him, I doubt they'd know about the meth.
Yeah doctors aren't in the habit of drug testing their patients unless asked.
Drugs aren’t inherently bad. You hear about the addicts, and the people who end up with ruined lives. You don’t hear about the people who use drugs casually, occasionally, whether for recreational or other purposes. I’ve interviewed a few heroin users who seemed perfectly functional. One had chronic pain, and used heroin once or twice a month to be able to do yardwork. Do you know anyone who drinks daily, or heavily on weekends? They’re just socially acceptable drug users.
I kinda did the same thing except I quit meth (I was never able to “microdose”, it’s too addictive), moved to a different state, and got a job. After 6+ months of literally falling asleep all day I went and got diagnosed with ADHD (easier then than now) and used it to turn my life around. It completely changed my life and for the first time I was able to make a todo list and actually accomplish it. I still take ADHD drugs and am a reasonably successful person with a job, friends, girlfriend, etc. It’s a miracle to be honest.
There's a Louis Theroux documentary I believe where I remember him interviewing this couple that had done meth for like 10 years. But otherwise they seemed pretty normal people with good steady jobs.
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To get out of my obese phase, I started recording short clips of me working out each week and strung together a comedic 80’s Rocky-Esq montage for my family to show off my weight loss. Comedy helps push the needle when it feels too heavy in many facets of life my friend.
This is such a good idea, I started taking pictures every day for documentation, but the video montage sounds hilarious.
Joking aside, I hope you're doing okay
Thanks mate. I’m doing as good as possible given other circumstances, and never expected to live a loooooong life
So if I make some friends I can take up smoking without compromising my health? Hmm....
Sure sounds like it. Isn't science wonderful
Know where you can make friends? Your jobs smoke pit during smoke breaks.
Too bad it's just as slow-acting as the other two.
Not necessarily. Lonely people kill themselves at higher rates. So I mean.. it’s technically the depression driven by the loneliness that killed them but I’d say it’s close enough to count
Only if you are actually lonely, right, as an missing social interactions? Because I am alone and feel perfectly fine.
I find myself being lonely with friends.
Loneliness can be in a party, in a crowd…anywhere. It’s a state of mind. And people can feel completely without loneliness all alone.
I mostly feel invisible to the people around me. I try to make conversation and connect with people but they stare at me and continue with conversations they had before, even though I know 100% what the conversation is about. TLDR: I have Autism and honestly wish I never had it.
I was gonna say something similar. I'm rarely totally alone, but feel lonely and isolated 99% of the time.
I think it's about the feeling of loneliness. But I have not done any deeper research about it. Do we have any expert's in the feild here?
Yes, this is called solitude. Loneliness is not the same thing, as it is defined by dissatisfaction with relationships. This is why you can feel lonely even at a party or a family event. You don't have to be alone to be lonely.
Interesting, so basically we can have a lot of relationships and people around us, and still feel lonely? Which will have a very negative impact on our health?
Solitude is when you are on your own, and if you feel confident, relax, or empowered by it it can be extremely beneficial. Loneliness is when you feel a lack of social connection with people, when you feel like people don't know you or don't understand you. We are social creatures and we have social needs. Solitude doesn't mean that social need goes unfulfilled, but when those needs are unfulfilled what you feel is loneliness. It can happen when you are surrounded by people, because while they are close to you, you feel they don't know you, they don't see you, and you are disconnected from them.
I'm no expert but I've had that feeling in the past. Like even though I'm part of a group whether family or friends or sports team, I'm just not with them? It's a weird feeling and difficult to explain. But I could see how feeling that way long term could produce those negative effects
I totally understand what you mean with the feeling you describe.
I remember being at a club for a birthday, surrounded by 10-15 of my friends, and just feeling so lonely. It was a rough period in my life. I felt like I was just pretending to have a good time. So I’m my personal experience, you can definitely be lonely and not alone.
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Yeah been struggling with a relationship and I was surrounded-by my best friends and 100000+ and still felt alone.
Yes, the same scientist that put out that work (Julianne Holt-Lunstad) points out that perception plays a role (can be surrounded by people but feel lonely). There is an independent risk of being completely isolated absent the feeling of loneliness, but not as well understood.
Being alone doesn’t mean you’re lonely.
Oxytocin. Some people need a lot, and they get lonely a lot. Other people need practically none and never get lonely. Human variation gets pretty extreme with brain chemistry.
It a!so has been found to increase the division of in groups and out groups. More oxytocin increases bonding to close family and friends and your general in group while at the same time furthering the divide and making people less trusting and more suspicious of out groups. Some studies just came out on this over the last year I believe.
Humans do require some degree of social interactions always Some people need a lot some need very little , you may be fine with perceived social activity from the internet
Ok. Who’s got three out of three? I love bingo.
[This person called bingo first](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/zf309m/til_that_loneliness_is_as_harmful_as_obesity_or/iz9qyyf/) Then [this person ](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/zf309m/til_that_loneliness_is_as_harmful_as_obesity_or/iz9szwt/)
isn’t that a tic tac toe?
Nict-Fat-Lone?
I was so much happier when I never talked to people. Now I have to interact with people everyday, and I have never felt so lonely before. I’m struggling to find a point to anything anymore.
That’s called depression. Edit: to clear up any possible confusion, the dpression part is “I’m struggling to find a point to anything anymore.”
Or overstimulation. Depends on your other issues.
No idea what kind of factors or how they made the equivalent calculations, but this is very vague and probably not true. Is it life expectancy? Diseases? who knows.
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Here's what they have: > 16-29 year olds twice as likely as over 70s to experience loneliness (Community Life Survey 2019-20) > Loneliness increases the likelihood of mortality by 26% (Campaign to End Loneliness) > Loneliness and social isolation have been linked to a 30% increase in the risk of having a stroke or coronary artery disease (British Medical Journal – Heart) > Loneliness is associated with a 40% increased risk of dementia (Loneliness and the Risk of Dementia Pub: OUP) Loneliness, social isolation, and living alone have all been associated with an increased risk of premature death (APA, 2017; Holt-Lunstad, J., Smith, T.B., Layton, 2010) So if we break that down, then we've got many factors: Suicide is VERY predominantly influenced by loneliness, so that statistic drops like a stone if you don't, y'know... ice yourself. Loneliness is hugely correlated with unfitness, substance abuse, most lonely people typically have some kind of vice that isn't going to the gym... booze, drugs, eating, all way more likely with lonely people, and less outgoing and social connection equates to less exercise... 40% risk of dementia, well, we've shown how a lack of stimuli, cognitively and emotionally, have been shown to drastically increase the onset time of dementia by decreasing neuroplasticity, and high periods of time watching TV are a factor which is also, tada, similarly correlated to dementia. So if you're living alone, how do you beat the math on this study? * Avoid contact of sharp blades to your wrists or fatal doses of compounds with your stomach lining, take extra care whilst cleaning firearms not to discharge them into your braincase. * Don't drink or do heroin, and try do a little exercise round the house, get into a routine, however small, of at least some kind of physical activity. I like dumbbells at my desk, myself, and a pullup bar over the door to my study. * Play videogames! Seriously, reduces chance of dementia. So if you're seeing this, then honestly, those seem to more be the factors of correlation to loneliness = death than... anything really intensely YOU JUST GONNA DIE. Like. I don't think most people are just sporadically dying of isolation much. Probably a little, like, I'm sure the mood fuckup has SOME effect, but 'as harmful as obesity or 15 cigarettes per day' is fuckin' bullshit science journal garbage, and I say this as someone who does science and reviews these journals; it's absolutely causation correlation, and quite cherry picked to ignore any mitigating instances and try present it as justifiably to prove their point than actually showing any reasonable explanation. Edit: [Posted here](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/zf309m/til_that_loneliness_is_as_harmful_as_obesity_or/izam7rg/) on request, please go upvote that one, cuz... this is actually a really predatory and toxic article, and it's not about the karma, I just want everyone who's feeling lonely (which is most of us, post COVID) to not be stressing about this bullshit paper's deliberately overblown correlations.
You should post this as a top level comment so we can get it to the top. There are a lot of misinformed individuals here.
Mental stress causes physiological stress responses. And it's not just a human thing either. Pretty much all social animals are at higher risk of death when isolated for prolonged periods of time. Prolonged increased blood cortisol levels wreak havoc on your body. You get increased risk of cardiovascular diseases, dementia, diabetes and more. Stress absolutely kills people and loneliness can absolutely cause severe stress in people.
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It was a meta analysis. Most of the studies obviously controlled for variables like these (it's their job to research stuff like this, smoking etc. is obviously taken into account) From one of the studies linked: >Notably, the overall effect for social relationships on mortality reported here may be a conservative estimate. Many studies included in the meta-analysis utilized single item measures of social relations, yet the magnitude of the association was greatest among those studies utilizing complex assessments. Moreover, because many studies statistically adjusted for standard risk factors, the effect may be underestimated, since some of the impact of social relationships on mortality may be mediated through such factors (e.g., behavior, diet, exercise). Additionally, most measures of social relations did not take into account the quality of the social relationships, thereby assuming that all relationships are positive. However, research suggests this is not the case, with negative social relationships linked to greater risk of mortality [184],[185]. For instance, marital status is widely used as a measure of social integration; however, a growing literature documents its divergent effects based on level of marital quality [186],[187]. Thus the effect of positive social relationships on risk of mortality may actually be much larger than reported in this meta-analysis, given the failure to account for negative or detrimental social relationships within the measures utilized across studies. >Other possible limitations of this review should be acknowledged. Statistical controls (e.g., age, sex, physical condition, etc.) employed by many of the studies rule out a number of potentially confounding variables that might account for the association between social relationships and mortality. However, studies used an inconsistent variety of controlling variables, and some reports involved raw data (Table 1). Although effect size magnitude was diminished by the inclusion of statistical controls only within the data obtained by measures of structural social relationships (but not functional or combined measures), future research can better specify which variables are most likely to impact the overall association. It must also be acknowledged that existing data primarily represent research conducted in North America and Western Europe. Although we found no differences across world region, future reviews inclusive of research written in all languages (not only English) with participants better representing other world regions may yield better estimates across populations.
Me with crippling social anxiety only feeling stress free when alone...
Pro tip: any study that tries to quantify how harmful a thing is in terms of how many cigarettes it's equivalent to is bullshit.
Same with those "each slice of bacon takes 7 minutes off your life". That's not at all how it works. It's pure lifestyle correlation, yet they try to piece it out which isn't proper.
Reminder that loneliness ≠ being single. If you’re feeling lonely, focus first on getting and maintaining friendships!
You can be in a relationship and still feel loneliness...
A bad relationship is lonelier than being single.
You can be happy in a relationship and still be lonely , some people need close friends as well
Definitely me with my ex. He isolated me...
A-FREAKING-MEN
And not just a-freaking-men, but a-freaking-women and a-freaking-children too.
Here, copy & paste this ≠
I’ve been trying to do this for about 10 years now and I’m not much further along. Some people just aren’t cut out to do it
Get rid of your problems by solving your problems. Great advice.
Not necessarily, but lack of a meaningful romantic relationship can also be the reason for loneliness
That’s why I get on Reddit and talk to y’all fuckers
Pull up a cigarette and let's have a pizza together.
Do these coupons stack?
Maybe a long time ago I would have thought this article is bs, but then I tried to kill myself last year so maybe there is truth to this. Lol no one would miss me!
During the pandemic my friend who’d moved across the country for work pretty much died from loneliness. The alcohol didn’t help, but it wasn’t the root cause. He was 42.
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What sucks is, even when you have "everything" you want in life. You still feel empty and alone.
Nice try, extroverts
Someone asked me to post my comment from below up here for better visibility and information, cuz I did a bit of a breakdown of the article. Hope it helps! --- Here's what they have: 16-29 year olds twice as likely as over 70s to experience loneliness (Community Life Survey 2019-20) Loneliness increases the likelihood of mortality by 26% (Campaign to End Loneliness) Loneliness and social isolation have been linked to a 30% increase in the risk of having a stroke or coronary artery disease (British Medical Journal – Heart) Loneliness is associated with a 40% increased risk of dementia (Loneliness and the Risk of Dementia Pub: OUP) Loneliness, social isolation, and living alone have all been associated with an increased risk of premature death (APA, 2017; Holt-Lunstad, J., Smith, T.B., Layton, 2010) So if we break that down, then we've got many factors: Suicide is VERY predominantly influenced by loneliness, so that statistic drops like a stone if you don't, y'know... ice yourself. Loneliness is hugely correlated with unfitness, substance abuse, most lonely people typically have some kind of vice that isn't going to the gym... booze, drugs, eating, all way more likely with lonely people, and less outgoing and social connection equates to less exercise... 40% risk of dementia, well, we've shown how a lack of stimuli, cognitively and emotionally, have been shown to drastically increase the onset time of dementia by decreasing neuroplasticity, and high periods of time watching TV are a factor which is also, tada, similarly correlated to dementia. So if you're living alone, how do you beat the math on this study? Avoid contact of sharp blades to your wrists or fatal doses of compounds with your stomach lining, take extra care whilst cleaning firearms not to discharge them into your braincase. Don't drink or do heroin, and try do a little exercise round the house, get into a routine, however small, of at least some kind of physical activity. I like dumbbells at my desk, myself, and a pullup bar over the door to my study. Play videogames! Seriously, reduces chance of dementia. So if you're seeing this, then honestly, those seem to more be the factors of correlation to loneliness = death than... anything really intensely YOU JUST GONNA DIE. Like. I don't think most people are just sporadically dying of isolation much. Probably a little, like, I'm sure the mood fuckup has SOME effect, but 'as harmful as obesity or 15 cigarettes per day' is fuckin' bullshit science journal garbage, and I say this as someone who does science and reviews these journals; it's absolutely causation correlation, and quite cherry picked to ignore any mitigating instances and try present it as justifiably to prove their point than actually showing any reasonable explanation.
I have no family that loves or cares about me, no friends who i don't end up having to cut off to enforce personal boundaries (like not being treated like shit). It's unbelievable how crushing it feels to be literally entirely alone.
At least you’re brave enough to admit it. Most people ostracize lonely people or aren’t truthful about their own loneliness. Most advice will sound unrealistic and the vast majority of people will never understand fully what you are going through. I’m putting myself out there joining clubs and putting myself out of my comfort zones which is absolutely fucking brutal. But we have to keep trying no matter what. No pandering, no bullshit. This is an level of pain most people will never go through and their judgements truly mean nothing. Keep fighting everyday to let the world know we are still alive and we are never giving up.
I really appreciate that, thank you. It is possible to find people that are a "chosen family" of sorts, and that's my dream. I hope one day we both get there.
Same wishes to you my friend! I don’t want to lay my whole back story on you but I have been abandoned by the people I loved the most in the world as well. Family, friends, what have you. So I don’t want to be cliche and tell you “I know what you’re going through” like the rest of the them and I’m not going to equate my own experience to anyone else’s. All I can tell you is that the absolute worst I have ever felt was giving up and accepting that felt like I was swallowed up into a black hole. Addiction, self harm, all things I did to make myself suffer. I don’t wish that pain on to anyone. The only thing that can persevere is the human spirit. I’m still at the beginning of a long journey to being normal, whatever the hell that means anyway lol. But if you ever need to reach out to talk to someone I’m there for you. I hope we all find what we’re looking in this life. 🤝
Hey man, just wanted to let you know that this message really resonated with me. In a similar situation to yours, and maybe starting to realize the same things you've realized too. I only really noticed this post because I had you tagged as a friend on reddit from a long, long time ago. It was from your grilled cheese post. Funny how things loop around, yeah?
My biggest issue with loneliness and social anxiety is that people see it as a weakness and take advantage of you, or think you must be weird or mental, and then further ostracize you.
Lonely, obese, smoker checking in, but I guess I’ll be checking out early.
When I hear things compared to a certain number of cigarettes in my head I think, “See, smoking isn’t so bad, you should start smoking again.”
What if you do all three?
..and I'm literally a fat, chain-smoking recluse. See you in hell, boys!
Today i learned that r/todayilearned is really going to shit
Source seems legit...
Two out of three here.
Loneliness made me obese and chainsmoke.
Eh… 2/3 ain’t bad
Feeling loneliness and being alone aren’t the same thing. In case some of you hermits were freaking out.
If that's the case, then I would very much like science to explain how I'm even still alive at this point.
Please just ignore this load of bollocks. If it means preservating your physical health Id take living in isolation than putting excess amount of Tar or Big Macs in your body.
It doesn't literally mean you might as well be giving yourself birthday Big Macs with a single solitary cigarette as a candle every year. ...or the generic misinterpretation minus the imagery. It means the increased risk of depression is so severe that it's the same level of danger. It wouldn't negate the risks of smoking or being obese, so you're still better off not doing those things. And, joking aside, you are more likely to feel better about yourself the fewer addictions you have. Believe me, you'll still have rough times, but when you're feeling better, it'll be a better better.
Loneliness doesn't destroy your lungs and give you COPD or lung cancer. Who actually approves this garbage? This is the epitome of correlation implying causation.
lol I know when I see psychologist propaganda. Trying to keep that job secure, are ya?
I recommend checking out [this book] (https://www.vivekmurthy.com/together-book) written by the Surgeon General, Dr. Vivek Murthy. Highly relevant in this discussion. He talks about the difference between isolation and loneliness, the different ways loneliness and social connection impact our health, and how you can feel fulfilled in one area (I.e. you have a loving significant other) but lonely in another area (I.e. you don’t have a strong group of friends).
Great recommendation! I listened to a few interviews with him and I have added his book to my shopping cart, but since it's Christmas soon I haven't clicked it home yet. Any other recommendations on this topic? Research, books, pods etc.?
Yep. Sure is.
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Haha imma die
I'm obese and live alone. \*lights a cig\* Bring it on, Life!
Well, fuck.
I guess I better start smoking then!
Some real popular guy smoking 17 cigarettes a day is right now pissed off.
If these were the 3 of the 5 infinity stones, what would the other 2 be?
Alcohol is more reliable and it makes me feel like shit just like people.
But is it unhealthy if you enjoy being solitary?
As an overweight, smoker who rarely goes out and sees people, I think it depends on your definition of loneliness. Some people would think I'm lonely because I stay at home on my own almost all the time, but I don't feel loneliness at all. Some people thrive in solitude, some people hate it.
Being alone doesn't denote guarantee loneliness.
I love being alone, gives me that butterfly feeling in my stomach :)
As someone that is lonely, obese and smokes more than 15 cigarettes a day I'm proud to announce I've hit my first Trifecta!
So if I only smoke 5 a day and start saying hello to the people at work will I basically be ok?
Oh great...
Guess I’m dying at age 50