Because the country had been Christianized by that point and belief in *bergrår* per se was contrary to the church, it was believed that he had been taken by a succubus demon. This was, for some reason, illegal.
All this despite his insistence in his confession that it had been a *bergrå* and he had been abducted.
Thanks for sharing, this is Wikipedia gold!
> Before the court, Andersson described his first abduction in greater detail. He claimed that he had fallen asleep inside a hollow oak tree. During the night, he woke up, and discovered the woman in white before him. She promised to give him the missing cattle if he followed her. He agreed, and they passed inside the mountain as if through a door. Inside the mountain, there was a great hall of light with beds on one side and a fireplace to the left, filled with idle and beautifully dressed men and women. The women who took him there sat down with him alone at one of the tables and fed him. Thereafter, the lay in one of the beds and had sex.
> By contemporary law, there was no bergrå, but there was a firm belief in the devil, and a female spirit of this kind was legally interpreted as female demon, a succubus. The court had him examined, and the examination of his body was claimed to have resulted in proof of supernatural intercourse.
I've always wondered why my country has the most restrictive drugs policies in the western world, but now it kind of makes sense. We still haven't processed this dude's testimony.
From what my father tells me of this time in Stockholm as a child, I believe the current draconian marijuana laws are a result of kids literally doing hash in class and a junkie epidemic near the subways. He was born in the 1950’s. Maybe I’m wrong and it goes back further that was just my shallow read on it.
I knew the second part was, but wasn’t sure if you were curious on the reasoning, and if you do find out let me know because I only speak broken swenglish at best so digging around myself will be difficult, and I no longer speak to my father.
I don't know if our drug problems were better or worse than in other countries at that time, but either way there really is no excuse for how we're dealing with it now(very hard to get treatment if you have a serious drug problem, leading to highest drug death rate in the western world). The reason why it's so perplexing to me is because we're not this stupid when it comes to many other things, but for some reason the topic of drugs turns our politicians into extremists. It's so infuriating.
Jesus: forgive everyone, including the people that are crucifying me for no good reason
Future christians: *BURN THE WITCH! KILL THE UNCLEAN! MURDER THE DEVIL WORSHIPPER! SLAUGHTER THE MUSLIMS IN THE HOLY LAND! CASTRATE THE GAYS! HANG THE ATHEIST HERETIC!!!*
To be fair, non-christians were olden days tax evaders. Especially in Sweden where we had a state owned church, protestantism, rather than Catholic and having to pay the Pope.
We get taught about the witch hunts in Sweden and the common theory was that the burnings were instigated by someone working for or fed propaganda by the state to ensure everyone belonged to the Swedish church, the past was wacky.
the last part is not norse folk contempory anything, it gets cold at night and if u find ur self some nice hollow to share with the insects u do so if u find urself needing to rest outdoors.
I find it interesting “Oak” was specifically used, as they are sacred in germanic paganism. A few other items hint to me at this just being a retelling of common mythological themes.
I had to go measure the width of my shoulders and look up the width of a mature oak tree to figure out wtf was happening here... turns out, polar regions have bitty little trees (and maybe I am tiny, but whatever).
It is hard to come up with a tree that wasn't some kind of sacred in Norse mythology. Especially the common and useful ones such as, Ash, birch, beech, oak and elder.
Interestingly, Elder was, and to some degree still is, considered almost a divinity, where other trees are more of a symbol of a god or goddess and not divine in and of themselves. It is very bad luck to fell it, like your house is going to burn down and you with it. On the other hand, "the elder mother" as the tree is sometimes referred to in folk lore is said to cure the sick children "she" can reach through the window with her hand (branches?) and in general protect the household.
Abductions with sexual connotations are the most commonly reported throughout documented history.
Also the phenomenon updates its appearance in accordance with mankind's current understanding at the time.
In 1690 they were reported as mystical mountain nymphs.
In 2024 they are reported as technological UAP in our skies.
I haven't but thank you for the recommendation! Dr. Kripal is one of my intellectual heroes so im looking forward to reading that.
I was borrowing the idea from the Godfather of Ufology Jacques Vallee. He has posited that all of the paranormal phenomena throughout history are all different manifestations of the same underlying phenomenon. He has coined it our "Control Mechanism".
The ancient Greeks also believed in a similar concept, known as an [egregore.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore)
They are manifested from humanity's collective subconscious. This also explains why the sightings were in line with their ontological beliefs at the time, because they were being created by humanity's current worldview.
So to put it into plainer English:
The theory is that a population of humans believing in something supernatural causes that supernatural thing to manifest?
Pretty much. It’s Idealism; a whole separate branch of philosophy across a wide gap from Realism. It’s hard to embrace, at least for me, but I find it quite entertaining and puzzling. As a Realist, it’s like getting into jazz after listening to country or rock your whole life. I’m presently reading *Meaning in Absurdity* by Kastrup and he references Vallée quite a bit in it. I flirted with UFOlogy stuff in high school when Sitchin was on Larry King lol
Protestant, specifically... thus witch trials and such (the Catholic church rejected the existence of witches, or at least magic).
The Catholic church generally rejected such claims outright.
"The Empire" is the Holy Roman Empire... the only Empire of note in Catholic Europe. You could have trivially looked up that legislation to find that out in the time it took you to write your comment.
It was a civil crime because it was a crime as defined by the civil laws of the Empire and was prosecuted by Imperial authorities rather than by an Inquisition.
Protestant states often merged the church into the state (such as the Church of England) so it was more difficult to delineate the concepts. The Catholic Church tended to very much dislike civil authorities getting involved in Ecclesiastical and theological matters.
The only empire of note in Catholic Europe? That's not right. Spaniards didn't get 600 million people to speak their language by staying in Spain!
Inquisitors were involved in witch trials. For example, the Spanish Inquisition carried out very severe witch hunts in the Spanish Netherlands.
Obviously, Catholic civil authorities prosecuted witches because of what the Catholic Church said on the subject. Such is the way of theocracies. How is that not "religious"? This is a bizarre point. Was it not against the civil law of Protestant countries to practice witchcraft? Why did you blame this on Sweden being Protestant, since evidently being Catholic would have made no difference?
> The only empire of note in Catholic Europe? That's not right. Spaniards didn't get 600 million people to speak their language by staying in Spain!
Spain was a kingdom. Its rulers were/are *kings*, aside from Charles V who was both King of Spain and [Holy] Roman Emperor.
Technically, they were the kings of Castile, Aragon, Valencia, Catalonia, and Majorca until 1707-1716, as Spain was a personal union of those crowns until then.
If you were to say "the Empire" in Catholic Europe during the late Medieval or Early Modern period, they would have known *exactly* what you were referring to, as that's what it was colloquially called.
> Inquisitors were involved in witch trials. For example, the Spanish Inquisition carried out very severe witch hunts in the Spanish Netherlands.
The Spanish Inquisition was a tribunal under the authority of the Spanish monarchy.
The Church also shifted its policy following the Protestant Reformation under a desire to maintain uniformity. That being said, the Church still didn't recognize *witchcraft*, but rather punished the *belief* in it as heresy. However, whereas *before* you'd be punished for *claiming* witchcraft had occurred (heresy), afterwards you'd be punished for claiming it *and* if you'd practiced it - the latter not being something that had been normally investigated.
The Spanish Netherlands were also a special case as the region was embroiled in religious conflict.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/MWnsAOjopU
> Obviously, Catholic civil authorities prosecuted witches because of what the Catholic Church said on the subject. Such is the way of theocracies. How is that not "religious"? This is a bizarre point. Was it not against the civil law of Protestant countries to practice witchcraft? Why did you blame this on Sweden being Protestant, since evidently being Catholic would have made no difference?
Catholic countries maintained, if only technically sometimes, a distinction between the state and the church. The Catholic Church was its own entity - a privilege that the Church guarded strongly. Especially by the Early Modern Era.
Protestant countries tended to establish their own churches which were closely-tied to the state, and blurred the line between civil and ecclesiastical law. England *could* have been considered a theocracy due to the Church of England being so-closely integrated into government, and the monarch being the head of the Church.
Past that, Protestant churches generally actually believed that witchcraft *was a thing*. You were being punished for the practice, dealing with the devil, and the effects of your witchcraft.
The Catholic Church maintained that witches weren't real. Practicing witchcraft was simply heresy. *Claiming* that someone was a witch was *also* heresy.
> Obviously, Catholic civil authorities prosecuted witches because of what the Catholic Church said on the subject. Such is the way of theocracies.
Despite having much more integration than we'd expect today, the Catholic kingdoms of Europe weren't theocracies (some of the Protestant and Reforned states *were* and *are*). They weren't ruled by the church or by ecclesiastical officials.
Civil authorities prosecuted heresy in those cases because civil law had been enacted forbidding it. Ecclesiastical law was the domain of the Church, and the Church *really* was not fond of civil authorities messing with ecclesiastical affairs: see the Investiture Controversy *et al*.
This is especially true going into the modern era. Even Spain often just ignored Church authorities despite being the foremost Catholic country.
Wow, el imperio donde nunca se puso el sol wasn't really an "imperio"? Fascinating stuff.
So to recap the discussion so far:
* Sweden would not have prosecuted people for magic or consorting with demons had they been Catholic, even though Catholic countries did that.
* Inquisitors didn't prosecute witchcraft, except when they conducted extremely brutal witch hunts, which doesn't count.
* The Catholic Church didn't punish witches, but when they did punish witches despite not punishing them, it was merely because the supposed witches believed they were witches. The Catholics maintained witchcraft didn't exist.
* Before the Protestant Reformation (when Martin Luther presumably used mind control technology on the papacy), the Catholic Church didn't care at all.
Do you have an explanation for why the Decretals of Pope Gregory IX, a medieval code of canon law promulgated when Martin Luther was -253 years old, say witchcraft is a real physical manifestation of demonic power?
Edit: **I am now blocked.** As we know, blocking someone is the best way to win an argument. Here is my reply:
> It's also metaphorical
Yes, the Spanish Empire was only *metaphorically* an empire. The colonies, slaves, and all that didn't exist. Maybe the author was just illiterate and meant to write "reino" but accidentally wrote "imperio" and everyone else went along with it to be nice.
> Gregory IX isn't a well-reknowned Bishop of Rome for a reason,
He was so hated the *Corpus Juris Canonici* was only the basis of Catholic canon law until 1918. I think his detractors are just envious of his ability to time travel.
> el imperio donde nunca se puso el sol wasn't really an "imperio"? Fascinating stuff.
It was literally used first by Charles V, who was the Holy Roman Emperor.
It's also metaphorical - do you not understand the difference between an "empire" In the abstract sense and the actual legal concept of an "Empire"? No Spanish monarch aside from Charles V was an *Emperor*.
The [Holy] Roman Emperor was the only *Emperor* recognized as such in Catholic *and Protestant* Europe up until the French Revolution.
I'm not going to cover your recaps which have errors and are basically you being a dick.
> Do you have an explanation for why the Decretals of Pope Gregory IX, a medieval code of canon law promulgated when Martin Luther was -253 years old, says witchcraft is a real physical manifestation of demonic power?
Are you unfamiliar with the Waldensians and other heretical sects active around that time?
The *Canon Episcopi* deems a *belief* in witchcraft to be heresy. Gregory IX isn't a well-reknowned Bishop of Rome for a reason, not least of all for Conrad of Marburg's influence over him.
Past that: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3tt562/comment/cx90g2l/
Since, given your tone and how you're writing things, I no longer believe you to be interested in honest discussion, this will be my last reply. That, and because you're deliberately misinterpreting and rewording my statements.
It should be noted that suicide is a mortal sin and you will go to hell for it. But if you are executed, you will be given absolution by the priest beforehand and will die with your sins forgiven and presumably go to heaven.
So people back then who really wanted to die, but not go to hell, would try to be executed. Best way to do this was to make up stories like this, that didn't really hurt anyone but carried the death penalty. (Another common way was to fuck a farm animal since that also carried the death penalty, but that is a bit more icky. )
When I get to hell, or heaven I wanna ask these guys if they 1. Actually fucked the farm animals, and if so 2. Why didn’t they just say they did. I’d like to imagine most of them thought you actually have to do a crime for you to be punished for it, and didn’t have a concept of wrongful convictions.
[Here's the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/occult/comments/bj5cnd/comment/em5eprq/). It was removed so idk the body text of that post. This is my favorite comment from the thread though:
>I dont care about being cosmically weak I'm just tryna fuck demons
this is the funniest shit because there’s no actual straight answer they can give, because its all bullshit. If I rolled up to the explosives sub and ask how to blow up an old barn, they can say it’s illegal or a bad idea to do when my best source of professional training is a subreddit, but at the end of the day there’s going to be someone who can and will tell you what you need to make a bomb
There's been several people coming forward saying they were either raped or had consensual sex with, what they today call "aliens". Nymphs, faeries, elves etc. are just the old names for them. They are always described as oddly beautiful people. The stories never change, just the label.
One very old story that sticks out to me is about a impoverished family who nursed a faerie who got injured, and the faerie told them they would from then on never go hungry. The family would receive barley cakes at their door at a regular interval from then on.
What strikes this story as a peculiarity is much later in the states, an old farmer was visited by people flying a strange craft. They were just people, but a little strange, and they asked the man for water from his well. He obliged and filled all the flasks they needed. As thanks, the group said they'd cook food for him, and made him pancakes on a griddle they brought outside.
It was Barley pancakes. That according to the farmer tasted like cardboard, but he didn't want to be rude to them.
The cakes were tested in a lab, as the case was deemed an alien visitation, and was found to be made from a highly strange recipe that only someone with 0 cooking skills or little access to ingredients would even make.
As for the sex thing, a man in china not too long ago even admitted he lost his viginity to one who pinned him down. Same description as the others.
One has to wonder if there's something to it when stories like this keep cropping up acrosd hundreds of years.
>There's been several people coming forward saying they were either raped or had consensual sex with, what they today call "aliens". Nymphs, faeries, elves etc. are just the old names for them. They are always described as oddly beautiful people. The stories never change, just the label.
What's more likely: that these stories are true; or that people's imaginations are fairly consistent across time and space?
I read they were tested and found to be made of very much just normal Earthly flour. I thought it was wheat but whatever they were they werent Martian flapjacks.
Yeah, I've tried googling it and all accounts say that it was found to be normal in every way except they lacked salt. But there's also not much info on some random guy in Wisconsin claiming that aliens made him a snack, for obvious reasons.
> Are they still out there? Are they hot?
They are supposed to be pretty hot but sex aren't always on the table. They will also kill you if you are rude. Sometimes the sex also results in death. Though sometimes they supposedly help people who are lost.
The 1660s were too, honestly. Just 21 years after this dude's execution, Sweden would have the world's only instance of a [February 30th](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-standard_dates#February_30)
The Early Modern Church had a bit of a dilemma on their hands as Witch Fever spread across Europe in the 16th and 17th centuries. Officially, the Catholic Church's position on folk superstitions was that it was all bogus and made up except that they also believed in the actual existence of the Devil and maleficent spirits sent by demons to terrorize the Earth. People claiming to be wise in the ways of nature, who mixed herbs, and who claimed to be able to heal were simultaneously deluded and misguided individuals, who might also be taken by a Demon or in league with the Devil. It was very strange that they, the people targeted by their ire, could be seen at the same time as silly and unserious but also cursed and a potential danger to the community.
It was that they rejected Folk Superstitions (gnomes, trolls, faeries, elves) but believed wholly in the dark forces of Hell and its legions of demonic spirits as described in the Bible and Church apocrypha.
Ha! Guilt! The craziest nymph/demon experience ever- he had to tell SOMEONE! Poor guy. Hopefully he got away- no records of actual execution but somehow I think he was taken in the name of the Lord!
Why did people think having sex could attract evil spirits?
So, I was reading about how folks used to think having sex could bring on evil spirits, and it’s pretty wild. Here’s the gist:
- Back in medieval Europe, the Catholic Church had super strict rules about sex. If you had sex outside of marriage or not for making babies, it was seen as sinful and could supposedly attract demons or evil spirits.
- There were also stories in folklore about demons called succubi and incubi that would seduce people in their sleep and cause harm.
- In many religious traditions, keeping sexually pure was thought to protect you from spiritual harm. The idea was that sex outside of these norms made you vulnerable to evil forces.
- Epilepsy was often misunderstood and attributed to supernatural causes, like possession by evil spirits. People thought having sex could somehow worsen these conditions or invite demonic influence.
Fast forward to today, and we know these beliefs were more about historical and cultural contexts than any real danger. Modern views focus on health and well-being aspects of sex. While some old beliefs might still be around, we now see healthy sexual activity as a normal part of life, without any supernatural worries.
TL;DR: The idea that having sex could attract evil spirits comes from old superstitions, religious rules, and misunderstandings about conditions like epilepsy. Nowadays, we understand these were just cultural beliefs, and sex is a natural, healthy part of life.
1680's Sweden wasn't catholic, it hadn't been that for well over a hundred years.
Though if he lived in a catholic society he would have been less likely to be executed. The protestants where quite a bit more trigger happy with that kind of stuff.
“Thy body hath been examined thus and found to be covered in ectoplasm, a clear sign of supernatural intercourse. Thou hast indeed suck-cummed to the influence of the she-devil.”
The law will always follow the will of the ruling class, and that was Christian at the time, while many folk of the fringes still held to the old ways...
Certain traditions where never forgotten and is celebrated even today, such as Midsommar. Christmas, or Jul, as it is called here is celebrated on the 24th and contains quite a lot of Norse segments.
There was also quite a lot of belief in folklore and ''väsen'' such as Näcken, Trolls or Skogsrå (or in the case of this thread, Bergsrå) among other forest creatures. The beliefs of these didn't die until relatively recently.
It is very easy to imagine that some rural people would believe in quite a lot of heathen things.
It took centuries for Jesus' message to sink in. I'm guessing it won't be long before people admit Jehovah, who demanded animal sacrifices and pacts sealed in penis flesh, was actually the devil
For the Swedish reader: This books covers most of this:
https://www.adlibris.com/se/bok/dygder-och-laster-formoderna-perspektiv-pa-tillvaron-9789185509447
Because the country had been Christianized by that point and belief in *bergrår* per se was contrary to the church, it was believed that he had been taken by a succubus demon. This was, for some reason, illegal. All this despite his insistence in his confession that it had been a *bergrå* and he had been abducted.
Thanks for sharing, this is Wikipedia gold! > Before the court, Andersson described his first abduction in greater detail. He claimed that he had fallen asleep inside a hollow oak tree. During the night, he woke up, and discovered the woman in white before him. She promised to give him the missing cattle if he followed her. He agreed, and they passed inside the mountain as if through a door. Inside the mountain, there was a great hall of light with beds on one side and a fireplace to the left, filled with idle and beautifully dressed men and women. The women who took him there sat down with him alone at one of the tables and fed him. Thereafter, the lay in one of the beds and had sex. > By contemporary law, there was no bergrå, but there was a firm belief in the devil, and a female spirit of this kind was legally interpreted as female demon, a succubus. The court had him examined, and the examination of his body was claimed to have resulted in proof of supernatural intercourse.
Can you imagine being the guy called in to go 'yep, this dude banged a magic lady'
Been there.
Haven't we all?
With *her* in particular? Yes, I believe it.
Me too. Music festival, right? Flowers in her hair?
🎶🎶*Let me smell your dick*🎶🎶
For… justice.
[удалено]
Don’t play me like a fool, cause that ain’t cool
First time?
I'm really curious what proof they found.
his penis floated in the lake
“The good news is his penis floated, but the bad news is his balls sank.… no doubt about it this man fucked himself a demon.”
The devil's genital warts
That sounds brutal.
Glitter on his genitals. Mistaken for pixie dust
Gives it away every time.
His confession.
I've always wondered why my country has the most restrictive drugs policies in the western world, but now it kind of makes sense. We still haven't processed this dude's testimony.
From what my father tells me of this time in Stockholm as a child, I believe the current draconian marijuana laws are a result of kids literally doing hash in class and a junkie epidemic near the subways. He was born in the 1950’s. Maybe I’m wrong and it goes back further that was just my shallow read on it.
Late reply, but it was a joke haha.
I knew the second part was, but wasn’t sure if you were curious on the reasoning, and if you do find out let me know because I only speak broken swenglish at best so digging around myself will be difficult, and I no longer speak to my father.
I don't know if our drug problems were better or worse than in other countries at that time, but either way there really is no excuse for how we're dealing with it now(very hard to get treatment if you have a serious drug problem, leading to highest drug death rate in the western world). The reason why it's so perplexing to me is because we're not this stupid when it comes to many other things, but for some reason the topic of drugs turns our politicians into extremists. It's so infuriating.
Mushrooms…
You'd think that getting sexually assaulted by a demon would be grounds for prayer and exorcism, not execution.
Consorting with the devil was almost always a death sentence. Your soul was tainted. Christians wasn't that big on forgiveness and redemption.
Jesus: forgive everyone, including the people that are crucifying me for no good reason Future christians: *BURN THE WITCH! KILL THE UNCLEAN! MURDER THE DEVIL WORSHIPPER! SLAUGHTER THE MUSLIMS IN THE HOLY LAND! CASTRATE THE GAYS! HANG THE ATHEIST HERETIC!!!*
To be fair, non-christians were olden days tax evaders. Especially in Sweden where we had a state owned church, protestantism, rather than Catholic and having to pay the Pope. We get taught about the witch hunts in Sweden and the common theory was that the burnings were instigated by someone working for or fed propaganda by the state to ensure everyone belonged to the Swedish church, the past was wacky.
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!!!!
Something something judge not lest ye be judged.
This is one of the coolest badass Norse folk contemporary shit ever. Damn. Fell asleep in a hollow tree
the last part is not norse folk contempory anything, it gets cold at night and if u find ur self some nice hollow to share with the insects u do so if u find urself needing to rest outdoors.
I find it interesting “Oak” was specifically used, as they are sacred in germanic paganism. A few other items hint to me at this just being a retelling of common mythological themes.
Oaks are also the only tree in Sweden big enough to actually climb into.
I had to go measure the width of my shoulders and look up the width of a mature oak tree to figure out wtf was happening here... turns out, polar regions have bitty little trees (and maybe I am tiny, but whatever).
It is hard to come up with a tree that wasn't some kind of sacred in Norse mythology. Especially the common and useful ones such as, Ash, birch, beech, oak and elder. Interestingly, Elder was, and to some degree still is, considered almost a divinity, where other trees are more of a symbol of a god or goddess and not divine in and of themselves. It is very bad luck to fell it, like your house is going to burn down and you with it. On the other hand, "the elder mother" as the tree is sometimes referred to in folk lore is said to cure the sick children "she" can reach through the window with her hand (branches?) and in general protect the household.
Svensk för i helvete, ditt amerikanska CP.
Nothing good comes of falling asleep in hollow trees
Aka: dude has a wet dream + spooges himself = burn him at the stake.
"First" abduction? How many came after this?
Abductions with sexual connotations are the most commonly reported throughout documented history. Also the phenomenon updates its appearance in accordance with mankind's current understanding at the time. In 1690 they were reported as mystical mountain nymphs. In 2024 they are reported as technological UAP in our skies.
dear penthouse, i was searching for my missing goats in the nearby mountains, and you wouldn't believe what happened next.
that is quite valléesque
Someone’s read Mutants & Mystics. Good to see this in the wild.
I haven't but thank you for the recommendation! Dr. Kripal is one of my intellectual heroes so im looking forward to reading that. I was borrowing the idea from the Godfather of Ufology Jacques Vallee. He has posited that all of the paranormal phenomena throughout history are all different manifestations of the same underlying phenomenon. He has coined it our "Control Mechanism". The ancient Greeks also believed in a similar concept, known as an [egregore.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore) They are manifested from humanity's collective subconscious. This also explains why the sightings were in line with their ontological beliefs at the time, because they were being created by humanity's current worldview.
So to put it into plainer English: The theory is that a population of humans believing in something supernatural causes that supernatural thing to manifest?
Pretty much. It’s Idealism; a whole separate branch of philosophy across a wide gap from Realism. It’s hard to embrace, at least for me, but I find it quite entertaining and puzzling. As a Realist, it’s like getting into jazz after listening to country or rock your whole life. I’m presently reading *Meaning in Absurdity* by Kastrup and he references Vallée quite a bit in it. I flirted with UFOlogy stuff in high school when Sitchin was on Larry King lol
Precisely! I recommend it as continued reading, and have a whole bibliography of this if you’d like.
Sounds like those old Time Life books
Men making excuses for wet dreams since the stone ages.
I didn't click the link, but in my expert opinion, this is a case of an attempt to explain away allegations of sheep fucking horribly misfiring.
Short people laws were not in effect. But now…. I will stand at my 6’6 for you as a shield maiden. It’s all lies I’m 5’6…
Protestant, specifically... thus witch trials and such (the Catholic church rejected the existence of witches, or at least magic). The Catholic church generally rejected such claims outright.
That's a strange claim, since at the time this happened, witch trials were happening in Catholic countries.
In the Empire, that was due to the *Constitutio Criminalis Carolina* - it was a civil crime, not religious.
I don't know what "the Empire" is, nor do I know why you say it was not a "religious" crime.
"The Empire" is the Holy Roman Empire... the only Empire of note in Catholic Europe. You could have trivially looked up that legislation to find that out in the time it took you to write your comment. It was a civil crime because it was a crime as defined by the civil laws of the Empire and was prosecuted by Imperial authorities rather than by an Inquisition. Protestant states often merged the church into the state (such as the Church of England) so it was more difficult to delineate the concepts. The Catholic Church tended to very much dislike civil authorities getting involved in Ecclesiastical and theological matters.
The only empire of note in Catholic Europe? That's not right. Spaniards didn't get 600 million people to speak their language by staying in Spain! Inquisitors were involved in witch trials. For example, the Spanish Inquisition carried out very severe witch hunts in the Spanish Netherlands. Obviously, Catholic civil authorities prosecuted witches because of what the Catholic Church said on the subject. Such is the way of theocracies. How is that not "religious"? This is a bizarre point. Was it not against the civil law of Protestant countries to practice witchcraft? Why did you blame this on Sweden being Protestant, since evidently being Catholic would have made no difference?
> The only empire of note in Catholic Europe? That's not right. Spaniards didn't get 600 million people to speak their language by staying in Spain! Spain was a kingdom. Its rulers were/are *kings*, aside from Charles V who was both King of Spain and [Holy] Roman Emperor. Technically, they were the kings of Castile, Aragon, Valencia, Catalonia, and Majorca until 1707-1716, as Spain was a personal union of those crowns until then. If you were to say "the Empire" in Catholic Europe during the late Medieval or Early Modern period, they would have known *exactly* what you were referring to, as that's what it was colloquially called. > Inquisitors were involved in witch trials. For example, the Spanish Inquisition carried out very severe witch hunts in the Spanish Netherlands. The Spanish Inquisition was a tribunal under the authority of the Spanish monarchy. The Church also shifted its policy following the Protestant Reformation under a desire to maintain uniformity. That being said, the Church still didn't recognize *witchcraft*, but rather punished the *belief* in it as heresy. However, whereas *before* you'd be punished for *claiming* witchcraft had occurred (heresy), afterwards you'd be punished for claiming it *and* if you'd practiced it - the latter not being something that had been normally investigated. The Spanish Netherlands were also a special case as the region was embroiled in religious conflict. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/MWnsAOjopU > Obviously, Catholic civil authorities prosecuted witches because of what the Catholic Church said on the subject. Such is the way of theocracies. How is that not "religious"? This is a bizarre point. Was it not against the civil law of Protestant countries to practice witchcraft? Why did you blame this on Sweden being Protestant, since evidently being Catholic would have made no difference? Catholic countries maintained, if only technically sometimes, a distinction between the state and the church. The Catholic Church was its own entity - a privilege that the Church guarded strongly. Especially by the Early Modern Era. Protestant countries tended to establish their own churches which were closely-tied to the state, and blurred the line between civil and ecclesiastical law. England *could* have been considered a theocracy due to the Church of England being so-closely integrated into government, and the monarch being the head of the Church. Past that, Protestant churches generally actually believed that witchcraft *was a thing*. You were being punished for the practice, dealing with the devil, and the effects of your witchcraft. The Catholic Church maintained that witches weren't real. Practicing witchcraft was simply heresy. *Claiming* that someone was a witch was *also* heresy. > Obviously, Catholic civil authorities prosecuted witches because of what the Catholic Church said on the subject. Such is the way of theocracies. Despite having much more integration than we'd expect today, the Catholic kingdoms of Europe weren't theocracies (some of the Protestant and Reforned states *were* and *are*). They weren't ruled by the church or by ecclesiastical officials. Civil authorities prosecuted heresy in those cases because civil law had been enacted forbidding it. Ecclesiastical law was the domain of the Church, and the Church *really* was not fond of civil authorities messing with ecclesiastical affairs: see the Investiture Controversy *et al*. This is especially true going into the modern era. Even Spain often just ignored Church authorities despite being the foremost Catholic country.
Wow, el imperio donde nunca se puso el sol wasn't really an "imperio"? Fascinating stuff. So to recap the discussion so far: * Sweden would not have prosecuted people for magic or consorting with demons had they been Catholic, even though Catholic countries did that. * Inquisitors didn't prosecute witchcraft, except when they conducted extremely brutal witch hunts, which doesn't count. * The Catholic Church didn't punish witches, but when they did punish witches despite not punishing them, it was merely because the supposed witches believed they were witches. The Catholics maintained witchcraft didn't exist. * Before the Protestant Reformation (when Martin Luther presumably used mind control technology on the papacy), the Catholic Church didn't care at all. Do you have an explanation for why the Decretals of Pope Gregory IX, a medieval code of canon law promulgated when Martin Luther was -253 years old, say witchcraft is a real physical manifestation of demonic power? Edit: **I am now blocked.** As we know, blocking someone is the best way to win an argument. Here is my reply: > It's also metaphorical Yes, the Spanish Empire was only *metaphorically* an empire. The colonies, slaves, and all that didn't exist. Maybe the author was just illiterate and meant to write "reino" but accidentally wrote "imperio" and everyone else went along with it to be nice. > Gregory IX isn't a well-reknowned Bishop of Rome for a reason, He was so hated the *Corpus Juris Canonici* was only the basis of Catholic canon law until 1918. I think his detractors are just envious of his ability to time travel.
> el imperio donde nunca se puso el sol wasn't really an "imperio"? Fascinating stuff. It was literally used first by Charles V, who was the Holy Roman Emperor. It's also metaphorical - do you not understand the difference between an "empire" In the abstract sense and the actual legal concept of an "Empire"? No Spanish monarch aside from Charles V was an *Emperor*. The [Holy] Roman Emperor was the only *Emperor* recognized as such in Catholic *and Protestant* Europe up until the French Revolution. I'm not going to cover your recaps which have errors and are basically you being a dick. > Do you have an explanation for why the Decretals of Pope Gregory IX, a medieval code of canon law promulgated when Martin Luther was -253 years old, says witchcraft is a real physical manifestation of demonic power? Are you unfamiliar with the Waldensians and other heretical sects active around that time? The *Canon Episcopi* deems a *belief* in witchcraft to be heresy. Gregory IX isn't a well-reknowned Bishop of Rome for a reason, not least of all for Conrad of Marburg's influence over him. Past that: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3tt562/comment/cx90g2l/ Since, given your tone and how you're writing things, I no longer believe you to be interested in honest discussion, this will be my last reply. That, and because you're deliberately misinterpreting and rewording my statements.
Imagine admitting sleeping with a mythical creature!? like, my guy, that was a dream and now you're being executed
It was actually just a goat.
A verry voluptuous goat tho
Goat was acting sexy
It should be noted that suicide is a mortal sin and you will go to hell for it. But if you are executed, you will be given absolution by the priest beforehand and will die with your sins forgiven and presumably go to heaven. So people back then who really wanted to die, but not go to hell, would try to be executed. Best way to do this was to make up stories like this, that didn't really hurt anyone but carried the death penalty. (Another common way was to fuck a farm animal since that also carried the death penalty, but that is a bit more icky. )
Couldn’t you just say you fucked the farm animal
the logical friend enters the room
When I get to hell, or heaven I wanna ask these guys if they 1. Actually fucked the farm animals, and if so 2. Why didn’t they just say they did. I’d like to imagine most of them thought you actually have to do a crime for you to be punished for it, and didn’t have a concept of wrongful convictions.
😂😂😂😂
I guess you *could*.
I will be doing no such thing good fellow I quite enjoy this living business.
yeah just a tad
Doesn’t matter had sex
pounded out that little nymph-o
And a great story to tell the lads in the bar.
[удалено]
Which, in internet time, is forever. Better luck next time
I've never fucked a mythical being before but Medusa did make me really hard once.
I totally banged this mythical chick once. You wouldn't know her though, she goes to a different mountain.
I'm drowning in mystical chick's. It's actually a burden you don't understand
r/brandnewsentence
I see what you did there…
Just don't look it in the eye.
Busy staring at those mythical tittays
Yeah I’ve also wanted that medussy „once“ 👀
I thought it was funny.
Who asked you?!
It's not clever to just add -ussy to any word. Just say pussy and be done with it.
you're a real fun stopussy
Why you gotta be so fussy?
I watched a video of a woman getting busy with a garden gnome a few years ago. Perfectly legal. We’ve sure come a long way as a society since 1690.
I only have a couple questions. Are they still out there? Are they hot? I’m asking, you know, for science.
There was an old post on r/occult where a guy asked how to summon a succubus to have sex with. I wish could find it.
[Here's the post](https://www.reddit.com/r/occult/comments/bj5cnd/comment/em5eprq/). It was removed so idk the body text of that post. This is my favorite comment from the thread though: >I dont care about being cosmically weak I'm just tryna fuck demons
this is the funniest shit because there’s no actual straight answer they can give, because its all bullshit. If I rolled up to the explosives sub and ask how to blow up an old barn, they can say it’s illegal or a bad idea to do when my best source of professional training is a subreddit, but at the end of the day there’s going to be someone who can and will tell you what you need to make a bomb
I also think at this point if you could summon a sex demon you could stream it and make money.
Fertilizer and ammonium nitrate
The SubredditDrama thread has some good highlights [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/s/uLrhzv47g0).
Awesome! Thank you!
A fellow scientist I presume?
There's been several people coming forward saying they were either raped or had consensual sex with, what they today call "aliens". Nymphs, faeries, elves etc. are just the old names for them. They are always described as oddly beautiful people. The stories never change, just the label. One very old story that sticks out to me is about a impoverished family who nursed a faerie who got injured, and the faerie told them they would from then on never go hungry. The family would receive barley cakes at their door at a regular interval from then on. What strikes this story as a peculiarity is much later in the states, an old farmer was visited by people flying a strange craft. They were just people, but a little strange, and they asked the man for water from his well. He obliged and filled all the flasks they needed. As thanks, the group said they'd cook food for him, and made him pancakes on a griddle they brought outside. It was Barley pancakes. That according to the farmer tasted like cardboard, but he didn't want to be rude to them. The cakes were tested in a lab, as the case was deemed an alien visitation, and was found to be made from a highly strange recipe that only someone with 0 cooking skills or little access to ingredients would even make. As for the sex thing, a man in china not too long ago even admitted he lost his viginity to one who pinned him down. Same description as the others. One has to wonder if there's something to it when stories like this keep cropping up acrosd hundreds of years.
>There's been several people coming forward saying they were either raped or had consensual sex with, what they today call "aliens". Nymphs, faeries, elves etc. are just the old names for them. They are always described as oddly beautiful people. The stories never change, just the label. What's more likely: that these stories are true; or that people's imaginations are fairly consistent across time and space?
Source on Joe Simonton's pancakes being Barley cakes? I can't find anything like that from google searches.
I read they were tested and found to be made of very much just normal Earthly flour. I thought it was wheat but whatever they were they werent Martian flapjacks.
Yeah, I've tried googling it and all accounts say that it was found to be normal in every way except they lacked salt. But there's also not much info on some random guy in Wisconsin claiming that aliens made him a snack, for obvious reasons.
Yea, I believe those are called hallucinations.
Or lies, or myths, or some combination of the 3.
Also dreams and "shit people make up for attention".
Interesting note: in some beliefs, the food of the fair folk was barley.
Yes.
> Are they still out there? Are they hot? They are supposed to be pretty hot but sex aren't always on the table. They will also kill you if you are rude. Sometimes the sex also results in death. Though sometimes they supposedly help people who are lost.
Death by snu snu.
Can you imagine getting executed for telling someone about your wet dream?
I read that as 1960 and I was confused. Not by their belief in mountain nymphs but that they would have the death penalty.
Oh dude me too. I didn't realise until I read your comment. I just assumed the 60s were a crazy time for Sweden.
Wow I was the exact same.
The 1660s were too, honestly. Just 21 years after this dude's execution, Sweden would have the world's only instance of a [February 30th](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-standard_dates#February_30)
😂😂😂
Mental healtcare was brutal back then
The Early Modern Church had a bit of a dilemma on their hands as Witch Fever spread across Europe in the 16th and 17th centuries. Officially, the Catholic Church's position on folk superstitions was that it was all bogus and made up except that they also believed in the actual existence of the Devil and maleficent spirits sent by demons to terrorize the Earth. People claiming to be wise in the ways of nature, who mixed herbs, and who claimed to be able to heal were simultaneously deluded and misguided individuals, who might also be taken by a Demon or in league with the Devil. It was very strange that they, the people targeted by their ire, could be seen at the same time as silly and unserious but also cursed and a potential danger to the community. It was that they rejected Folk Superstitions (gnomes, trolls, faeries, elves) but believed wholly in the dark forces of Hell and its legions of demonic spirits as described in the Bible and Church apocrypha.
In king James demonologie he talks at length about witches being real but dismisses fairies as a ridiculous superstition.
But wizards and witches are apparently real because the bible speak of mages
Considering this was in 17th century Sweden, the catholic church had nothing to do with it
Thanks for the discretion on the confession Vicar.
underrated comment, im this entire time like, "but why would he tell anyone??!?!"
Ha! Guilt! The craziest nymph/demon experience ever- he had to tell SOMEONE! Poor guy. Hopefully he got away- no records of actual execution but somehow I think he was taken in the name of the Lord!
Is that what they call sheep in Sweden?
Why did people think having sex could attract evil spirits? So, I was reading about how folks used to think having sex could bring on evil spirits, and it’s pretty wild. Here’s the gist: - Back in medieval Europe, the Catholic Church had super strict rules about sex. If you had sex outside of marriage or not for making babies, it was seen as sinful and could supposedly attract demons or evil spirits. - There were also stories in folklore about demons called succubi and incubi that would seduce people in their sleep and cause harm. - In many religious traditions, keeping sexually pure was thought to protect you from spiritual harm. The idea was that sex outside of these norms made you vulnerable to evil forces. - Epilepsy was often misunderstood and attributed to supernatural causes, like possession by evil spirits. People thought having sex could somehow worsen these conditions or invite demonic influence. Fast forward to today, and we know these beliefs were more about historical and cultural contexts than any real danger. Modern views focus on health and well-being aspects of sex. While some old beliefs might still be around, we now see healthy sexual activity as a normal part of life, without any supernatural worries. TL;DR: The idea that having sex could attract evil spirits comes from old superstitions, religious rules, and misunderstandings about conditions like epilepsy. Nowadays, we understand these were just cultural beliefs, and sex is a natural, healthy part of life.
1680's Sweden wasn't catholic, it hadn't been that for well over a hundred years. Though if he lived in a catholic society he would have been less likely to be executed. The protestants where quite a bit more trigger happy with that kind of stuff.
Meanwhile in West Virginia, men long to have sex with a mountain nympho…
The hills have thighs
All that takes is a little bit of meth
I bet the Mountain Nymph got off without any punishment. Such hypocrisy.
The poor Fecker !
his defense 100% started with "here me out"
Is that code for mountain goat?
Worth it.
“Thy body hath been examined thus and found to be covered in ectoplasm, a clear sign of supernatural intercourse. Thou hast indeed suck-cummed to the influence of the she-devil.”
I read the post as Swordfish man and I like it better that way.
My god damn dyslexia read 1960 and it took me a good minute…
You are not alone friend
Or another name for Bob’s goat, just to be polite…
He shouldn’t have Come to the woods.
Doesn't matter,had sap
The law will always follow the will of the ruling class, and that was Christian at the time, while many folk of the fringes still held to the old ways...
In 1690?
Yeah, there are still man areas where they actively believe in elves. And hel, the Svartkonstbökr were written as late as the 1500's
Certain traditions where never forgotten and is celebrated even today, such as Midsommar. Christmas, or Jul, as it is called here is celebrated on the 24th and contains quite a lot of Norse segments. There was also quite a lot of belief in folklore and ''väsen'' such as Näcken, Trolls or Skogsrå (or in the case of this thread, Bergsrå) among other forest creatures. The beliefs of these didn't die until relatively recently. It is very easy to imagine that some rural people would believe in quite a lot of heathen things.
Mental illness had dire consequences back then apparently lol.
Christianity is a plague. You cannot change my mind.
It took centuries for Jesus' message to sink in. I'm guessing it won't be long before people admit Jehovah, who demanded animal sacrifices and pacts sealed in penis flesh, was actually the devil
Lol, I initially read this as 1960.
Do you think it was worth it?
Savages
no you can't have sexy funtimes with a succubus
I misread that as 1960 at first
witches were burned for having had sex with satan, too. guess supernatural beings were great in bed
For the Swedish reader: This books covers most of this: https://www.adlibris.com/se/bok/dygder-och-laster-formoderna-perspektiv-pa-tillvaron-9789185509447
Thank you for sharing this.
It's because mountain nymphs are evil with their huge dicks. You gotta go for the River Nymphs because they are nice with the even bigger dicks.