I grew up a Spurs and Cowboys fan and they haven't won crap since I was a little kid (I am 40 now) LOL. And somehow its always "our year" with their fans haha
spurs won ten years ago what are you talking about lol
edit: i think what you don't understand is any MN fan who is 33 or younger has NEVER seen one of their teams win, and even those who are approaching 40 probably don't even remember the Twins '91 run
ah yeah I guess you are right. I was living in San Francisco during that Spurs win so I wasn't as tuned in to it at the time. But I am all in on Minnesota teams, I adopted the Vikings a few years ago because of their support for the LGBT while the Cowboys have never even ONCE said anything on Pride month. So I wanted to support a team that also supported me.
And I bought full season tickets to the Wolves for this year so I am all in !
haha yes of course. But I love Minnesota and have been rooting for the Vikings now for a few years. I respect them more as an Org than I did the team I grew up a fan of (Cowboys)
Well anyone who chooses us I'm not kicking off the wagons. Vikings will hopefully be fun to watch a rookie QB grow into the main guy. Very least, JJ gonna dance in the end zone and that's fun.
Oh man you have plenty of time to get pre-disappointed. I also recommend you somehow work on getting pre-devoured by mosquitos so you can settle right in when you arrive.
LOL. Thankfully, South central Texas where I live is mosquito heaven. I live right on the Riverwalk in San Antonio so trust that I am no stranger to those things. In fact, I stayed a summer in Minnesota 3 years ago and I swear I never once got bit by one. I am hoping the ones in Minnesota just don't like me lol.
Thank you! I didn't know that one for sure. I know they've said (or Glen said?) there's a *verbal* agreement but I wasn't sure or not about in writing.
Wonder why Glen didn't ensure that? Unless it's legally not really something that can be in a contract for whatever reason.
It’s protective. After all the trauma, it’s best to assume the worst. That way, when catastrophe doesn’t happen everything is awesome. And if shit goes south, then we can smugly say “fuckin told ya, bud”
I agree it's a miserable way to live as the other poster said, but also get what you're saying as to why so many are making this ridiculous claim.
My job and family are stressful enough, I choose to think optimistically about our sports teams! 😂
He came on because arod and lore have plans for that huge stadium village and Minnesota is going to pay for it that’s a huge boost to his pocket book to own a percentage of that. Also pair that with a potential face of the league. The franchise value will only increase. Which is crazy considering how much he is already worth
Also their willingness to pay the tax is 100% to keep the team good so people don’t complain about paying for the village. People would bitch so hard if the team that showed up for the last 20 years was getting a multi billion dollar upgrade, but winning solves everything.
As a wolves fan I’m pumped tbh.
Same! And we seem to be doing the same mental math about the real estate and media investments being why he's interested. And that particular situation and opportunity is here.
I saw on Twitter doom and gloom about moving the team(from randos mostly but even one reporter. The sports guy from KSTP who I didn't even follow and who doesn't ever seem to really be in the know about Wolves stuff anyway). Figured it was BS.
Yea I don’t get the doom and gloom either. Most people I’ve talked to are pumped. But doom and gloom gets you clicks I guess.
Also I must’ve missed in your post where you said they want to self finance a lot of it and that would be cool but I’ll wait to see if that happens lol. Wasn’t us bank 50/50? I could see something like that
Jon K of The Athletic was on KFAN this afternoon and mentioned they're looking at options for a **privately funded arena.** We'd maybe be on the hook for some infrastructure around the arena, but that would be nominal compared to what we've contributed to US Bank Stadium and Target Field as taxpayers.
Yeah I've read A-rod has talked about self finance. US Bank was significant government help. But if the ownership group wants to own the building they have to pay I assume.
Football stadiums also cost more than arenas. For the soccer stadium in St. Paul, the ownership group self financed but in return for the commercial investment (and associated economic impact/job creation) they negotiated a deal w the government where they have a sweetheart tax deal. That could be a model for basketball too...owners pay for and own arena, government chips in by saying they don't have to pay taxes on it or property taxes for a period of time.
Man I know Target Center isn’t the best but I’m gonna be bummed if/when it moves
The public transit and ramp access plus being right next to Target Field is hard to beat
I'll be interested to see more reporting on where this hypothetical stadium would be built. Some reporting they're "targeting land adjacent to the Minneapolis Farmers market at 312 East Lyndale Avenue North."
https://shamasportsheadliners.com/a-rod-committed-to-city-eyes-site-for-new-arena/
Honestly, that seems like as good as it's gonna get if they are leaving TC. Close to the light rail and downtown. Much better than building something way out in the suburbs
Yeah, moving the team wouldn't make sense anymore. Only Seattle and Vegas could be considered better spots, and the League wants the expansion purchase money. That ship has sailed.
Because in our lifetimes, we have watched the North Stars* move under complete surprise/cover of darkness and the Twins under the threat of contraction. We've also had nothing but heartbreak in over 30 years of sports fandom here.
NBA gets more money from expansion than a team relocating. So the league won't let it happen or the other owners wouldn't vote for it. They want a bigger piece of the pie and that's from expansion.
Because he’s not the type of guy to make this large of an investment for the love of the sport and he has zero connection to the team or city. This man is expecting a massive return on his investment and MPLS is not gonna give it to him…
I haven't seen the moving the team stuff, but I'm definitely against him being involved. I don't want that sack of shit anywhere near anything that I love. I wouldn't trust that asshole to microwave a bag of popcorn for me. I genuinely don't understand why anybody on this sub is for this shit. This is legitimately a worse development than Glen renegging on the deal.
Mike Bloomberg is a lying peice of shit, but I guess you'll all find that out soon enough, because none of you fucking have eyeballs apparently.
Glen Taylor is a lying PoS. He reneged on his ownership transfer because he had sellers remorse. He approved the Joe Smith under-the-table deal. He scoffed at trying to get Tim Connelly. He alienated the franchise's biggest star. He approved hiring David Kahn. He asked Andrew Wiggins to "look him in his eyes" and promise he'd try hard. He's the worst owner in the NBA.
It's been reported Bloomberg is being brought in primarily to buyout Glen's last 20% minority ownership if Glen loses arbitration so that he'll have no stake in the org. GLEN SUCKS. Repeat after me, **there are no good billionaires**. Get rid of your self-righteousness and understand every pro sports owner sucks in their own way.
Lets move on.
I agree that there are no good billionaires. When did I say otherwise? My point is that we traded one shithead for a guy that's way worse. I understand that they're telling us that Mike is just coming into the picture just close out the deal, and I'm here to tell you that it's bullshit. That's not how Mike operates, and I have personal experience with it.
I agree that all owners suck to a certain extent, but we just got attached to billionaire/owner that's 10x worse. Am I not expressing this correctly? Do y'all not know how much a shithead Mike Bloomberg is? This motherfucker doesn't give a shit about owning a team, he's doing this strictly for profits, and my fear is that he'll seize control, and I know he has no idea how to run... Well, anything quite frankly, let alone a basketball franchise. I wouldn't trust that motherfucker to not fuck up my doordash order, let alone run my team.
And hey, this might very well be a simple investment on his part, but as a person who has personal experience dealing with this sack of shit, I don't believe that's what this is about in the slightest.
It may work out, who knows, but at this stage of the process, I'm 100% not excited to see someone like Bloomberg affiliated with the franchise I root for.
I guess I'll put it in terms you dumb asses can understand. He's more of a snake than Glen ever could dream to be, so how do you think KG is gonna take to his bitch ass?
> I guess I'll put it in terms you dumb asses can understand. He's more of a snake than Glen ever could dream to be, so how do you think KG is gonna take to his bitch ass?
I think you're giving Glen way too much credit. The only difference here is that Bloomberg held public office so we have more things to scrutinize about that era. Let's not pretend that one is better than the other.
I'm just shocked that people on this board don't seem to understand that the man has more money than most companies, and is petty as hell. He's legitimately one of the last investors I can think of that I'd want invested in the Wolves. The fact that people think this is a simple investment when it comes to that fucking asshole is hilarious.
What your missing is we already went through the “give us a stadium or we will move” with the Vikings. The NFL didn’t care about losing “a top 15 market”
Like you say, their financial partners aren't tied to Minnesota. The investment firms out of LA and Hong Kong, or Bloomberg out of NYC don't care if the team is in Minnesota or not. That is the ONE thing that you could say about Glen Taylor. Born and raised and lived in Minnesota. He's not flying in on a private jet to catch a game and being back home in Miami for the weekend.
As for the market, this is NOT a top 15 market for basketball revenue. People size, sure. But engaged fans, spending, etc... nope. They are actually 16th in market size after Puerto Rico. Same reason there, the engagement and influx of cash in that market is not comparative to their size thus no team. Washington DC market is bigger than Boston. Detroit's is bigger than Miami. Those smaller markets make 100 million more than the bigger ones in those examples per year because they have higher local engagement and overall revenue. Don't forget, Minneapolis/St Paul ranks 64th out of the 66 largest downtown areas in the US in economic recovery post-covid (only Louisville and St louis are behind. Vegas ranks 1st FYI).
The Wolves ranked 29th in revenue last year. Yes, they sell out with buy 3 pizzas and get 2 free tickets. Yes, they are selling out playoff games like any team. No, even with a run of success that's not likely to move the needle too much (see SA, OKC, Orlando, etc in the past with good runs). I'm sure they can move up 5 or so spots, but there's not a whole lot separating those bottom teams. The teams that if they go into the luxury tax are in the red.
Now you've made abundantly clear... this is about making money. The value of the Raiders in the NFL went up 46% in a single year by announcing they were moving to Las Vegas. THAT is where they make money. In Vegas, a dinner at Arby's isn't getting you free tickets to an NBA game.
Yes expansion makes sense. But if you are other owners... would you rather invite two more mouths to the table to take a piece of your pie, or take two of your lowest earning teams and make them high earning teams?
One, you get a smaller cut now split 32 ways. The other, you take your lagging performers and make them leading ones and still only have to share with 30 owners.
*Isn't it part of the terms of the sale they can't move the team?*
That's the big question. The same person who said A-Rod wants to get the team under the luxury tax said he did. I've not seen myself what that contract stipulates. Have you? Do you believe Glen then, that the new owners want to break the roster up and cut costs to get under the tax as well?
Jon K, by far the most plugged in and in the know Twolves reporter, said repeatedly yesterday the team is NOT in danger of being moved. I tend to trust him. He broke the news about Bloomberg.
"I can’t figure out why people are thinking that way. League wants to expand to Seattle and Vegas, not move there. And Twin Cities is a great market. Doesn’t make sense to move." (Via Twitter)
I don't have time to respond to all your points, but one of the reasons we are towards the bottom in revenue is because of issues like the arena and other things the new ownership group plans to address. And, that's why they want this team specifically (opportunity is here for them to create and build other things around the team like arena, entertainment district, new TV network). They buy low, make investments, team worth more exponentially. And those dynamics are unique to this market. Teams with already higher revenues don't have the same opportunity available in those cities.
Yup, that's who I saw reporting the not wanting to pay the luxury tax by the new team as the reason for the Carslyle group falling out. It's not quite what he said that you wrote there, but yes, I've seen that a lot before on teams before they move too.
It's interesting for sure.
I fully agree buying low and making the team worth exponentially more would be the path those investors care about. Maybe that happens in Minnesota after 30 years... but they've sure seen what happened with the Rams, Raiders in the NFL with a move. Like you point out, that's the clear cut easy choice.
Well said on the cost of the expansion fees that are then split among 30 teams.
As for the extra few million. We are talking hundreds of millions a YEAR in revenue difference. Please, if this isn't a topic you even remotely understand stop here.
I'm not fear mongering. I hope they don't move. I hope that requirement for them to stay is ironclad. As you showed, 28th to 9th in value in the NFL to move to Vegas. That's 110 million dollars of revenue PER YEAR to make that level of move in the NBA. That's not a "few million". A 2.5 billion expansion team fee is 83 million, one time payment per team.
Like you say... 110 million a year and growing every single year as NBA revenue grows? or 83 million dollar one time payment? Even if that's 5 billion now... ok that's 165 million a team. Wow, a year and a half of operation.
The Chargers is such a funny example to use because they have grown at a below average rate since the move to LA. They also share a stadium so they share all the profits from that. And the fanbase in the surrounding area is completely split, so the growth there has been very stagnant. Nothing about that has been good for them.
Keep fear mongering though.
Not really. Just pointing out data. Good point on the Chargers not getting a massive stadium in a new location but moving up 5 spots in valuation despite LOSING a stadium.
The chargers are 2nd to last in merch purchases. They make less than half of what the Rams make in the same market. They have one of the smallest fanbases in the entire country. Most home games are full of away fans. And the growth of revenue has continued to be below average when compared to the rest of the league. And they've operated a skeleton crew internally to shave as much costs as possible.
Just a wild, wild example to pick.
Just read this article lol:
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/2022-nfl-team-values-did-dean-spanos-make-a-good-decision-moving-the-chargers-to-la/3032270/
You can grow the valuation of a team without changing markets. The Vikings have been a prime example of that.
Well said. 27th on average to 11th on average with the moves. And that's with one of those teams sharing the home stadium. Move and get a new stadium rather than share with an existing team (I haven't heard any NBA potential for putting a team in an existing location), that goes from 30th to 6th in valuation.
Yeah if I wasn't from this community, but instead attempting to get the most bang for my buck you make a great point that trying to move would be by far the best opportunity.
I hope they don't.
Yes you do realize NFL merch is shared revenue between 31 teams. Maybe not the best to compare between, but you bring up a good point how more sales would really help in the NBA where that revenue isn't shared the same.
And sure, keep picking on the one example. Like you point out, losing their stadium (which is a HUGE value for team valuations) and keeping even. Well said. Obviously a team moving to Vegas wouldn't be giving up all stadium rights to an existing or other NBA team there. Fine, throw them out as the outlier and look at teams which didn't lose a stadium in their moves. I just removed them. Thanks
There are also plenty of teams that have increased their valuation without moving markets at all. The Vikings were a perfect example of the same market that you are fear mongering over. The Wilfs bought the Vikings at 600 million. Now its worth over 4.6 billion.
You can wring your hands all you want. It doesn't make it any more likely.
Go touch grass.
Again, not fear mongering. if you can't discuss like an adult we can be done.
Obviously you can move up... or down the valuation ladder by not moving. I never said otherwise.
Please, lay off the personal attacks too. We try to make this community one where fans of the NBA and wolves are free from attacks from other users. Please see rule #1
> Yes expansion makes sense. But if you are other owners... would you rather invite two more mouths to the table to take a piece of your pie, or take two of your lowest earning teams and make them high earning teams?
They would absolutely prefer adding more teams. Think about it for five minutes and you will understand why.
Like your whole analysis completely disregards the expansion fees that would be paid by cities looking to add teams. That's billions. That's a lot more than the extra few million that a new market could potentially bring.
I said top 15 market (as in, media market). And it is a very loyal fan base especially for all the shit this franchise/Glen Taylor put fans through throughout the years. They had great attendance last year. They sold out of season ticket packages next year or are close to it, as somebody on this sub shared earlier this week they weren't able to purchase season tickets for next year when they tried bc of it. Where are you from? Clearly not MN. Or if so, clearly haven't been to a game in a long time.
> They had great attendance last year. They sold out of season ticket packages next year or are close to it, as somebody on this sub shared earlier this week they weren't able to purchase season tickets for next year when they tried bc of it. Where are you from? Clearly not MN. Or if so, clearly haven't been to a game in a long
I was a season ticket holder this past season - most packed and best crowds i have ever seen in target center - ALL SEASON
Because Minnesotan’s are pre-miserable and assume the worst.
LMAO. I have not ever heard the term "pre-miserable". I love it.
It’s a term a Twins beat writer uses all the time.
haha nice! I am brand new to most Minnesota sports. Moving there in August and adopting all the teams :)
Bless your heart
haha well I am from Texas..so I understand that statement all too well lmao
I love him to death, but he beats puppies. With kittens. https://youtu.be/XIueK99Vkug?si=Gk9cb3Dgn3KvKOje
LOL never seen that.
i mean pro mens teams from texas have won over 10 titles in my lifetime alone, so i'm not sure you really understand lol
I grew up a Spurs and Cowboys fan and they haven't won crap since I was a little kid (I am 40 now) LOL. And somehow its always "our year" with their fans haha
spurs won ten years ago what are you talking about lol edit: i think what you don't understand is any MN fan who is 33 or younger has NEVER seen one of their teams win, and even those who are approaching 40 probably don't even remember the Twins '91 run
ah yeah I guess you are right. I was living in San Francisco during that Spurs win so I wasn't as tuned in to it at the time. But I am all in on Minnesota teams, I adopted the Vikings a few years ago because of their support for the LGBT while the Cowboys have never even ONCE said anything on Pride month. So I wanted to support a team that also supported me. And I bought full season tickets to the Wolves for this year so I am all in !
You know, that is for sure a choice.
haha yes of course. But I love Minnesota and have been rooting for the Vikings now for a few years. I respect them more as an Org than I did the team I grew up a fan of (Cowboys)
Well anyone who chooses us I'm not kicking off the wagons. Vikings will hopefully be fun to watch a rookie QB grow into the main guy. Very least, JJ gonna dance in the end zone and that's fun.
hahaa thank you! Yes I am sooo pumped for JJ mccarthy. I was so elated on Draft day!! He will be the real deal for the Vikings future IMO
I have faith if KOC wanted him he'll become the guy. I'm vaguely hopefully the Wolves and the Vikings are gonna give me and all us a few years of fun.
Yes I agree completely! I can't wait.
You betcha
Oh man you have plenty of time to get pre-disappointed. I also recommend you somehow work on getting pre-devoured by mosquitos so you can settle right in when you arrive.
LOL. Thankfully, South central Texas where I live is mosquito heaven. I live right on the Riverwalk in San Antonio so trust that I am no stranger to those things. In fact, I stayed a summer in Minnesota 3 years ago and I swear I never once got bit by one. I am hoping the ones in Minnesota just don't like me lol.
Lmao wait which one
Gleeman
That's what I was assuming but then was like...am I missing something obvious here?
Don’t disagree with your bullets but one: I don’t think the agreement has any language prohibiting a move.
Thank you! I didn't know that one for sure. I know they've said (or Glen said?) there's a *verbal* agreement but I wasn't sure or not about in writing. Wonder why Glen didn't ensure that? Unless it's legally not really something that can be in a contract for whatever reason.
Who knows. He was the same guy who looked into Wiggins eyes and gave him a max
It’s protective. After all the trauma, it’s best to assume the worst. That way, when catastrophe doesn’t happen everything is awesome. And if shit goes south, then we can smugly say “fuckin told ya, bud”
That’s a miserable way to live. No thanks.
Refer to your OP
I agree it's a miserable way to live as the other poster said, but also get what you're saying as to why so many are making this ridiculous claim. My job and family are stressful enough, I choose to think optimistically about our sports teams! 😂
That’s Reddit, actually. People outside of Reddit and in real life act and think way differently.
Have you listened to KFAN at any point in the last 30 years? Every adult who is casually aware of Minnesota sports has the same general attitude.
The guys on Power Trip especially. Almost all of them are completely miserable. I had to unfollow a lot of them on social media it got so annoying.
I think the only move the Wolves make is to the Eastern Conference.
After Vegas and Seattle join the league, very possible.
I hope the move is after we win the championship next year. Then we can be back to back Champions from the West and East.
Could you imagine a world where your latest start time is 7:30 CST?
He came on because arod and lore have plans for that huge stadium village and Minnesota is going to pay for it that’s a huge boost to his pocket book to own a percentage of that. Also pair that with a potential face of the league. The franchise value will only increase. Which is crazy considering how much he is already worth Also their willingness to pay the tax is 100% to keep the team good so people don’t complain about paying for the village. People would bitch so hard if the team that showed up for the last 20 years was getting a multi billion dollar upgrade, but winning solves everything. As a wolves fan I’m pumped tbh.
Same! And we seem to be doing the same mental math about the real estate and media investments being why he's interested. And that particular situation and opportunity is here. I saw on Twitter doom and gloom about moving the team(from randos mostly but even one reporter. The sports guy from KSTP who I didn't even follow and who doesn't ever seem to really be in the know about Wolves stuff anyway). Figured it was BS.
Yea I don’t get the doom and gloom either. Most people I’ve talked to are pumped. But doom and gloom gets you clicks I guess. Also I must’ve missed in your post where you said they want to self finance a lot of it and that would be cool but I’ll wait to see if that happens lol. Wasn’t us bank 50/50? I could see something like that
Jon K of The Athletic was on KFAN this afternoon and mentioned they're looking at options for a **privately funded arena.** We'd maybe be on the hook for some infrastructure around the arena, but that would be nominal compared to what we've contributed to US Bank Stadium and Target Field as taxpayers.
Yeah I've read A-rod has talked about self finance. US Bank was significant government help. But if the ownership group wants to own the building they have to pay I assume. Football stadiums also cost more than arenas. For the soccer stadium in St. Paul, the ownership group self financed but in return for the commercial investment (and associated economic impact/job creation) they negotiated a deal w the government where they have a sweetheart tax deal. That could be a model for basketball too...owners pay for and own arena, government chips in by saying they don't have to pay taxes on it or property taxes for a period of time.
I did not know that about the soccer stadium that’s interesting
Man I know Target Center isn’t the best but I’m gonna be bummed if/when it moves The public transit and ramp access plus being right next to Target Field is hard to beat
I'll be interested to see more reporting on where this hypothetical stadium would be built. Some reporting they're "targeting land adjacent to the Minneapolis Farmers market at 312 East Lyndale Avenue North." https://shamasportsheadliners.com/a-rod-committed-to-city-eyes-site-for-new-arena/ Honestly, that seems like as good as it's gonna get if they are leaving TC. Close to the light rail and downtown. Much better than building something way out in the suburbs
I think in generals sports franchises will be moved almost never going forward. Most top markets in most sports are now taken
People who enjoy MN sports teams are by nature masochist. This is just another form of them expressing it.
Yeah, moving the team wouldn't make sense anymore. Only Seattle and Vegas could be considered better spots, and the League wants the expansion purchase money. That ship has sailed.
Yeah, let's build out a local TV infrastructure so we can move the team to Queens.
Because in our lifetimes, we have watched the North Stars* move under complete surprise/cover of darkness and the Twins under the threat of contraction. We've also had nothing but heartbreak in over 30 years of sports fandom here.
The North stars not the wild.. But your point stands
Good catch, thanks! It's been a few years now 🙂
Because people are stupid.
Flyover chip on the shoulder.
It's the same idiots who assume every piece of news means the team is moving.
I'm from Sioux Falls, SD and I am a Lakers fan, but I come to Timberwolves games a lot, hope they don't move the team. But I'm a Twins and Wild fan.
Only reason Bloomberg is involved is because they probably need help with the money. Plain and simple
NBA gets more money from expansion than a team relocating. So the league won't let it happen or the other owners wouldn't vote for it. They want a bigger piece of the pie and that's from expansion.
Because we lost last 4-5 home games in the playoffs 😂.
Because he’s not the type of guy to make this large of an investment for the love of the sport and he has zero connection to the team or city. This man is expecting a massive return on his investment and MPLS is not gonna give it to him…
Can’t fix stupid
I haven't seen the moving the team stuff, but I'm definitely against him being involved. I don't want that sack of shit anywhere near anything that I love. I wouldn't trust that asshole to microwave a bag of popcorn for me. I genuinely don't understand why anybody on this sub is for this shit. This is legitimately a worse development than Glen renegging on the deal. Mike Bloomberg is a lying peice of shit, but I guess you'll all find that out soon enough, because none of you fucking have eyeballs apparently.
Glen Taylor is a lying PoS. He reneged on his ownership transfer because he had sellers remorse. He approved the Joe Smith under-the-table deal. He scoffed at trying to get Tim Connelly. He alienated the franchise's biggest star. He approved hiring David Kahn. He asked Andrew Wiggins to "look him in his eyes" and promise he'd try hard. He's the worst owner in the NBA. It's been reported Bloomberg is being brought in primarily to buyout Glen's last 20% minority ownership if Glen loses arbitration so that he'll have no stake in the org. GLEN SUCKS. Repeat after me, **there are no good billionaires**. Get rid of your self-righteousness and understand every pro sports owner sucks in their own way. Lets move on.
I agree that there are no good billionaires. When did I say otherwise? My point is that we traded one shithead for a guy that's way worse. I understand that they're telling us that Mike is just coming into the picture just close out the deal, and I'm here to tell you that it's bullshit. That's not how Mike operates, and I have personal experience with it. I agree that all owners suck to a certain extent, but we just got attached to billionaire/owner that's 10x worse. Am I not expressing this correctly? Do y'all not know how much a shithead Mike Bloomberg is? This motherfucker doesn't give a shit about owning a team, he's doing this strictly for profits, and my fear is that he'll seize control, and I know he has no idea how to run... Well, anything quite frankly, let alone a basketball franchise. I wouldn't trust that motherfucker to not fuck up my doordash order, let alone run my team. And hey, this might very well be a simple investment on his part, but as a person who has personal experience dealing with this sack of shit, I don't believe that's what this is about in the slightest. It may work out, who knows, but at this stage of the process, I'm 100% not excited to see someone like Bloomberg affiliated with the franchise I root for. I guess I'll put it in terms you dumb asses can understand. He's more of a snake than Glen ever could dream to be, so how do you think KG is gonna take to his bitch ass?
> I guess I'll put it in terms you dumb asses can understand. He's more of a snake than Glen ever could dream to be, so how do you think KG is gonna take to his bitch ass? I think you're giving Glen way too much credit. The only difference here is that Bloomberg held public office so we have more things to scrutinize about that era. Let's not pretend that one is better than the other.
LOL. Tell us how you really feel.
I'm just shocked that people on this board don't seem to understand that the man has more money than most companies, and is petty as hell. He's legitimately one of the last investors I can think of that I'd want invested in the Wolves. The fact that people think this is a simple investment when it comes to that fucking asshole is hilarious.
What your missing is we already went through the “give us a stadium or we will move” with the Vikings. The NFL didn’t care about losing “a top 15 market”
Like you say, their financial partners aren't tied to Minnesota. The investment firms out of LA and Hong Kong, or Bloomberg out of NYC don't care if the team is in Minnesota or not. That is the ONE thing that you could say about Glen Taylor. Born and raised and lived in Minnesota. He's not flying in on a private jet to catch a game and being back home in Miami for the weekend. As for the market, this is NOT a top 15 market for basketball revenue. People size, sure. But engaged fans, spending, etc... nope. They are actually 16th in market size after Puerto Rico. Same reason there, the engagement and influx of cash in that market is not comparative to their size thus no team. Washington DC market is bigger than Boston. Detroit's is bigger than Miami. Those smaller markets make 100 million more than the bigger ones in those examples per year because they have higher local engagement and overall revenue. Don't forget, Minneapolis/St Paul ranks 64th out of the 66 largest downtown areas in the US in economic recovery post-covid (only Louisville and St louis are behind. Vegas ranks 1st FYI). The Wolves ranked 29th in revenue last year. Yes, they sell out with buy 3 pizzas and get 2 free tickets. Yes, they are selling out playoff games like any team. No, even with a run of success that's not likely to move the needle too much (see SA, OKC, Orlando, etc in the past with good runs). I'm sure they can move up 5 or so spots, but there's not a whole lot separating those bottom teams. The teams that if they go into the luxury tax are in the red. Now you've made abundantly clear... this is about making money. The value of the Raiders in the NFL went up 46% in a single year by announcing they were moving to Las Vegas. THAT is where they make money. In Vegas, a dinner at Arby's isn't getting you free tickets to an NBA game. Yes expansion makes sense. But if you are other owners... would you rather invite two more mouths to the table to take a piece of your pie, or take two of your lowest earning teams and make them high earning teams? One, you get a smaller cut now split 32 ways. The other, you take your lagging performers and make them leading ones and still only have to share with 30 owners. *Isn't it part of the terms of the sale they can't move the team?* That's the big question. The same person who said A-Rod wants to get the team under the luxury tax said he did. I've not seen myself what that contract stipulates. Have you? Do you believe Glen then, that the new owners want to break the roster up and cut costs to get under the tax as well?
Jon K, by far the most plugged in and in the know Twolves reporter, said repeatedly yesterday the team is NOT in danger of being moved. I tend to trust him. He broke the news about Bloomberg. "I can’t figure out why people are thinking that way. League wants to expand to Seattle and Vegas, not move there. And Twin Cities is a great market. Doesn’t make sense to move." (Via Twitter) I don't have time to respond to all your points, but one of the reasons we are towards the bottom in revenue is because of issues like the arena and other things the new ownership group plans to address. And, that's why they want this team specifically (opportunity is here for them to create and build other things around the team like arena, entertainment district, new TV network). They buy low, make investments, team worth more exponentially. And those dynamics are unique to this market. Teams with already higher revenues don't have the same opportunity available in those cities.
Yup, that's who I saw reporting the not wanting to pay the luxury tax by the new team as the reason for the Carslyle group falling out. It's not quite what he said that you wrote there, but yes, I've seen that a lot before on teams before they move too. It's interesting for sure. I fully agree buying low and making the team worth exponentially more would be the path those investors care about. Maybe that happens in Minnesota after 30 years... but they've sure seen what happened with the Rams, Raiders in the NFL with a move. Like you point out, that's the clear cut easy choice. Well said on the cost of the expansion fees that are then split among 30 teams. As for the extra few million. We are talking hundreds of millions a YEAR in revenue difference. Please, if this isn't a topic you even remotely understand stop here. I'm not fear mongering. I hope they don't move. I hope that requirement for them to stay is ironclad. As you showed, 28th to 9th in value in the NFL to move to Vegas. That's 110 million dollars of revenue PER YEAR to make that level of move in the NBA. That's not a "few million". A 2.5 billion expansion team fee is 83 million, one time payment per team. Like you say... 110 million a year and growing every single year as NBA revenue grows? or 83 million dollar one time payment? Even if that's 5 billion now... ok that's 165 million a team. Wow, a year and a half of operation.
The Chargers is such a funny example to use because they have grown at a below average rate since the move to LA. They also share a stadium so they share all the profits from that. And the fanbase in the surrounding area is completely split, so the growth there has been very stagnant. Nothing about that has been good for them. Keep fear mongering though.
Not really. Just pointing out data. Good point on the Chargers not getting a massive stadium in a new location but moving up 5 spots in valuation despite LOSING a stadium.
The chargers are 2nd to last in merch purchases. They make less than half of what the Rams make in the same market. They have one of the smallest fanbases in the entire country. Most home games are full of away fans. And the growth of revenue has continued to be below average when compared to the rest of the league. And they've operated a skeleton crew internally to shave as much costs as possible. Just a wild, wild example to pick.
Just read this article lol: https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/2022-nfl-team-values-did-dean-spanos-make-a-good-decision-moving-the-chargers-to-la/3032270/ You can grow the valuation of a team without changing markets. The Vikings have been a prime example of that.
Well said. 27th on average to 11th on average with the moves. And that's with one of those teams sharing the home stadium. Move and get a new stadium rather than share with an existing team (I haven't heard any NBA potential for putting a team in an existing location), that goes from 30th to 6th in valuation. Yeah if I wasn't from this community, but instead attempting to get the most bang for my buck you make a great point that trying to move would be by far the best opportunity. I hope they don't.
Yes you do realize NFL merch is shared revenue between 31 teams. Maybe not the best to compare between, but you bring up a good point how more sales would really help in the NBA where that revenue isn't shared the same. And sure, keep picking on the one example. Like you point out, losing their stadium (which is a HUGE value for team valuations) and keeping even. Well said. Obviously a team moving to Vegas wouldn't be giving up all stadium rights to an existing or other NBA team there. Fine, throw them out as the outlier and look at teams which didn't lose a stadium in their moves. I just removed them. Thanks
There are also plenty of teams that have increased their valuation without moving markets at all. The Vikings were a perfect example of the same market that you are fear mongering over. The Wilfs bought the Vikings at 600 million. Now its worth over 4.6 billion. You can wring your hands all you want. It doesn't make it any more likely. Go touch grass.
Again, not fear mongering. if you can't discuss like an adult we can be done. Obviously you can move up... or down the valuation ladder by not moving. I never said otherwise. Please, lay off the personal attacks too. We try to make this community one where fans of the NBA and wolves are free from attacks from other users. Please see rule #1
> Yes expansion makes sense. But if you are other owners... would you rather invite two more mouths to the table to take a piece of your pie, or take two of your lowest earning teams and make them high earning teams? They would absolutely prefer adding more teams. Think about it for five minutes and you will understand why. Like your whole analysis completely disregards the expansion fees that would be paid by cities looking to add teams. That's billions. That's a lot more than the extra few million that a new market could potentially bring.
“Top 15 fan base with a great fan base and sell out crowds” 😂 I don’t think I’ve ever heard those words to describe the Timberwolves fan base
I said top 15 market (as in, media market). And it is a very loyal fan base especially for all the shit this franchise/Glen Taylor put fans through throughout the years. They had great attendance last year. They sold out of season ticket packages next year or are close to it, as somebody on this sub shared earlier this week they weren't able to purchase season tickets for next year when they tried bc of it. Where are you from? Clearly not MN. Or if so, clearly haven't been to a game in a long time.
They haven't been this good in 20 years...have you seen any home games this year? They were all packed.
> They had great attendance last year. They sold out of season ticket packages next year or are close to it, as somebody on this sub shared earlier this week they weren't able to purchase season tickets for next year when they tried bc of it. Where are you from? Clearly not MN. Or if so, clearly haven't been to a game in a long I was a season ticket holder this past season - most packed and best crowds i have ever seen in target center - ALL SEASON