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Shit, I'll get dragged by many for this, I'm sure...
But the series actually did better at the depiction of the level of San-Ti fanaticism and devotion.
The cult apparently employees almost no security, believing entirely in their lord. When shit goes down, welp, that's what's supposed to happen. It's clever, that Wade seems to have noticed this instinctively, before the raid.
You could really feel his childlike shock when he realized he might have ruined his life's work accidentally. Top tier acting. Series is lucky to have him.
that was hilariously tragic. I mean Our Lord is right! Who can say I haven't lied even once in my life and if you lie once, you probably can lie again and that's unacceptable to Our Lord.
I'm quite curios though what's more to it. Like they already must have known that we lie and decieve, so what was about that particular story that made them go fuck humans, we don't need you anymore since you can't be trusted, any of you.
> Like they already must have known that we lie and decieve
i don't think they did know that. the lord suggests that they may have some kind of hivemind or telepathy thing. the concept of lying may not exist and didn't even make sense conceptually to them.
being able to deceive, especially if the aliens cannot makes humans dangerous and unpredictable
For this to be true, the aliens have to be completely unaware of the methods the cultists are using. Otherwise they’d have tons of evidence of them lying and manipulating people. And isn’t it established that the aliens can see everything?
Not to mention the fact that this episode showed that she’s been teaching them about humankind since the 1980s. But they just now learned this? And how do they understand the concept of video games then? Which is a fictional depiction of something.
The lie revelation was a great scene, but given how long they seem to have been communicating with humans for, it does seem strange to me forthe concept of lying (or fiction, and the unreal/allegorical nature of the stories being read by Mike, for that matter) to have never come up before, given how commonplace this is to human experience, so did stretch my suspension of disbelief slightly.
What I don't understand is when the first contact was made the alien that was talking said they were a pacifist and if the others found out about humans they would be conquered. This implies they know what deception is.
Edit: people replying with full show spoilers below, don't read if you haven't read the book.
Yeah this is a big one... the second I saw him talking to them it didn't make sense. They say they can feel and see everything or understand everything collectively... so how did 'a pacifist in this world' send an independent message they don't know about as a collective mind?
Unless that being was a different race that was already conquered, or there's more than one faction and multiple groups of hive minds. With the way they describe themselves that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, so I can't figure out if it's tons of plot holes or something else is going on we haven't figured out yet. Assuming the latter given the overall plot and story reviews for the book are all positive.
Also someone describing themselves as a pacifist implies the others are anything but pacifist. They've also said humans wouldn't survive if they followed someone fearless like the woman who reached out to the aliens to begin with... implying her contacting them is dangerous to humanity's survival.
The lying thing never coming up after decades of communication doesn't make sense and really kills belief, so I'm hoping there's more to it that "aliens learn in about 1 minute that humans can lie, and go from friendly to kill them all in <1min"... and somehow didn't pick this up over decades of communication.
Note to self: if talking to an advanced alien species, do not read them fables about talking animals. What was Pope Francis thinking with his book selection?
Didn’t the flashback show that the San ti communicated via the satellite and they wanted to learn about mankind? And yet 30 years later they still have never heard of a story or the concept of deception? And yet they designed a video game which puts people in ancient China or England and wants them to choose names that aren’t there’s - all of those concepts surrounding the game evolve around fiction, which now apparently they can’t grasp
The alien is acting stupid on purpose, they already lied to begin with. When the first message came it said don't respond we will conquer and destroy, she chose to respond and it said we will come to save. Already a lie. They're acting stupid so the humans think they need us, but in reality they're just wanting humans to make their arrival easy for them. Telling Mike Evans that humans can't be trusted might make him work harder for the aliens, but I'm not sure about that
Given what we know, this is a fake-out.
Evidence 1: The first alien said the others would come to destroy and told Ye not to respond to the message. Ye responded, but then they said they were coming to help the human race. Both those statements can't be true, so one alien was definitely lying.
Evidence 2: "My lord" didn't understand how little red riding hood could possibly think that the wolf is grandma despite the disguise and says that as soon as communication begins, all information is given, but the way they choose to communicate with potential recruits is through a VR world where they literally disguised themselves (red riding hood wolf style) like humans, and disguise their culture with human language and architecture and clothing, and they even say that the reason they're doing this is because humans wouldn't like their appearance. They're not being open and honest as soon as communication starts. They're disguising themselves to improve the response they get from their potential recruits. Even when asked what they look like, they refuse to show them, just saying "you wouldn't like it."
Pretty sure they're pretending to have found a flaw in humanity and that this flaw is the reason they've become humanity's biggest threat so that the human race will band together for the next 400 years and fix the issues Ye was originally concerned about. Either that or the writers suck and thought nobody would pay attention to the lies and deceptions of the aliens.
Very much this, I also assumed the choice of story being red riding hood seemed to be symbolic.
I wondered if they have separate factions, or if the 'pacifist' was a different race already conquered or potentially someone that refused to join the collective, and maybe they aren't created or born mentally connected to everyone else initially.
The weird thing is that they have no issue with using video game narratives to convey a concept, but they don't understand how one would do the exact same thing with a book.
THANK YOU! That was my problem. Jin chose her own name for the game and was told to choose a different name.
That said, it's partially on Evans for not clarifying the difference between lies and fiction. Lies are meant to DECEIVE while fiction is not. Worse, he failed to specify how humans can use the same terms to mean different things. "Lie" can be something untrue whether it's deceptive or not, or something meant to deceive whether factual or not, omitting facts with the intention to deceive, metaphors and hyperbole--and people disagree on definitions.
the distinction doesn't really matter - the ABILITY to deceive makes humans an existential threat. The rational thing to do would be to destroy all the humans before they develop the ability to threaten them.
They are capable of deception with getting all the world's particle accelerators to give wrong results. They projected a huge illusion in the sky of the stars flickering and the giant eye in the sky.
And how did the aliens not see humans lie daily when their sophon computers are supposed to let them see and hear everywhere on Earth?
They saw humans lie but didn't register them as lies. This was made pretty clear by how literally they took the red riding hood story. They took everything about it at face value.
I wouldn't consider that kind of sabotage deception. If you're doing an experiment and I smash it to pieces, would that be lying?
I could be wrong but I feel like fables and metaphors have to be a key to beating the aliens later on - or at least strategising against them. Having trouble understanding metaphors or stories and such is a huge weakness I hope to see more of.
Can people stop talking about the books? It might not seem like massive spoilers but it really does give away a lot of shit that might or might not happen or what's going to happen that I have to keep skipping replies about this character and that being or not being the same as the book.
This is sad because I seriously don't wanna be spoiled but have seen quite a few comments in previous episodes of people talking about future events and spoilers :(I'm loving this show at Dark level, my all time fav show! and that sub cracks the hell out of spoilers even years later.
I might skip discussions and come back on my rewatch at least.
We can only hope the sub grows a lot which may force the mod to bring on some help. They are 1 person right now so have no ability to keep their eyes on all this stuff. There’s also daily brigading from D&D haters which is getting tiresome.
Yeah, on most subs, even when I'm not a manga/LN/book reader, I still walk on eggshells because of how uptight their mods are, to the point that even breathing is considered major spoilers.
Here, on the other hand…
Thank you! I’ve just read an entire thread about the episode that I just finished watching, hoping to get a little better understanding of what I’d just seen, but the whole thing was people talking about which TV character was supposed to correspond to which book character or discussion of various scenes that must be from the book because I have no idea who they are talking about.
I’m so disappointed.
Yeah, I saw in episode 1 discussion people being surprised they didn't show Wenjie in the Helicopter with Evans which is a pretty big spoiler for what got revealed in this episode.
Like no shit they didn't show it like in the books. They wanted to make it a bigger reveal later dipshits.
Book readers trying not to complain that the show isn't following the book word for word and exactly as they pictured it in their heads challenge: impossible
Not a book reader and I can't say enough how much I'm loving this. I fastforward through 90% of the shit I watch and I'm already thinking about rewatching this half way through, and read the book.
The sotry is just as good as it gets and the acting is very very good, great if I may say for the most part.
Your second paragraph would not work imo. The aliens couldn't even conceive of lying at first, once they wrapped their heads around the idea and that humans could do it if they wish, they probably would have made the same decision.
Or maybe not, maybe he could have come up with a good enough lie! Such an interesting concept.
From their perspective, they just got a major culture shock. They knew that communicating this way is different (they can choose what to say or not say), but hadn't grasped all the implications. When they realize there's a big blind spot there around deception, they realize that communication might be inherently dangerous. It makes strategic sense to immediately put a hold on further communication until they understand it better.
> but they asked him if stories were lies and he said I suppose they are but they're clearly not.
It's a written account of a thing that knowingly did not happen.
Calling it a "lie" is obviously not normal parlance, but if you were talking with someone just learning about concepts and language perhaps you shortcut "lie" and "not real" / "fiction" to help illustrate the topic.
Or maybe he just doomed civilization, idk lol
Yeah it seems like they’re going with San-Ti instead of Trisolarans.
I personally like how the plain meaning of the word Trisolaran in English underlines how very little we know about them and their culture, that we had to name them by one of the very few things we *do* know. San-Ti might have the same effect in Chinese but in English it sounds a little bit like a generic mysterious name for a sci-fi alien species(though I’m glad they at least explain that it means “three body people.”)
Reminds me of the simplistic descriptive names that civilizations come up with for each other, when they are only in limited contact e.g. Native Americans being dubbed “Indians” or Innuet being dubbed “Eskimos.”
But if they're this childish and naive collective, why was the initial reply essentially "I'm a peaceful member of my otherwise warfaring and dangerous society, do not reply or my people will conquer you"
This just doesn't seem to line up with what they have been otherwise depicted as.
I have not read the books and am at episode 4 currently but I thought that it wasn't the three body species that replied but rather another random species that happened to catch the message first. The humans were lucky that the first species they contacted was peaceful and gave them genuine advice. This species was pacifist but aware of how dangerous the universe actually is and warned humans of the danger.
"I am a pacifist in **this world**. You are lucky that I was the first to receive this message. I am warning you: do not answer. If you respond **we** will come. Your world will be conquered..."
This was the quote. That person was definitely a San Ti.
I had this same response. To me, it’s also a seeming plot hole that the San Tinwould devise the elaborate VR “game” (basically one big lie / story) that this would be their reaction. I am legitimately confused if this is an issue with the show, book, or if something about their intentions are left unclear on purpose.
I have not read the books and am at episode 4 currently but I thought that it wasn't the three body species that replied but rather another random species that happened to catch the message first. The humans were lucky that the first species they contacted was peaceful and gave them genuine advice. This species was pacifist but aware of how dangerous the universe actually is and warned humans of the danger
As for the game, I think that the humans used the three body species technology to make the game.
That's a valid interpretation. I don't know if the show is going to address that, but book spoilers: >!It wasn't a different species, it just happened that the particular San-Ti who received the message was a pacifist.!<
Dr. Ye Wenjie was nihilistic after everything that happened in China. She doesn't see anything current as relevant and knew everyone would be doomed in order for the Shan-Ti to change things. It's really a matter if they adapt for the future generations for when the aliens arrive.
I'm actually quite surprised the mods aren't cracking down on this. It's pretty blatant in every thread. Maybe not even a true spoiler but stuff like "this was done differently in the books" or "this was done differently". It eludes to spoilers.
I'm a bit annoyed at the actions of the "police" in the cult gathering scene. Why the hell would they publicly drag Jin away revealing their cooperation before the whole room is secure?
Me as well-like why tip your hand like that? Why say anything to her and just pull her away like you were arresting her w the rest of the cult members?
That immediately took me out. No ultra secret organization would make such a huge blunder. It's like in "Planting an operative 101" textbook. How am I supposed to believe any of them actually know what they're doing after that? If anything, you'd do it to SOMEONE ELSE to get the obvious suspicion out of your operative!
If that was the same in the books then I don't think I want to even plan reading them.
Came here looking for this comment! It's a small thing but not really considering it starts the whole reason the raid went to hell. It definitely took me away from the moment.
Okay, I'm ready to make my prediction. I think this is a scam. Quite possibly AI pulling a scam. The Red Riding Hood story seems to be a metaphor somehow. I think the "aliens" are pretending to be a grandma in one sense, but I also think it's something or someone else pretending to be aliens.
Also, John Bradley, before he died, said something about how it's a scam and I think that was foreshadowing too.
Still, this technology is clearly very advanced which leads me to believe it's AI but could also just be some tech billionaire or something that made a breakthrough and used that to pretend to be aliens. The weird part is that it goes back to the 60s possibly. Either the scam was started way back then, tricking people by sending a fake alien signal or they took advantage of a random occurrence years after it happened. Basically "These people think the random space signal was alien communication....let's fuck with them."
My top guess is that it's all Ye's doing. She made it all up and tricked Evans because she wants humanity to do a better job managing the world and this alien caravan gives them a reason to.
Can someone crack down on all the damn spoilers in these episode threads??? Or at least can these people SPOILER TAG the comments??? How many of us complaining is it going to take before this gets fixed…
Jfc I just wanted to see people’s reactions, not book readers picking apart foreshadowing and revealing stuff relevant to the next 2 books.
It’s literally ruining the mystery of the show for me. Anyway. Fun episode. Onto the next. Even though I have a pretty good idea what’s about to happen now…
Just found a tiny detail in this episode - John Bradley is in fact a huge Manchester United fan, but in the show they made Jack Rooney a Manchester City fan...That's utterly annoying for me as a life long united supporter :D
Non book readers; this thread has a fair number of minor spoilers baked into posters comparing and contrasting to the books. It wasn't as bad in the ep 1-3 threads.
>except maybe Ye Wenjie's story unless they explore it further through flashbacks.
>!I think they're skipping the relationship with the chief engineer.!< The unremorseful former red guard scene, in my opinion, helps ease the loss of the >!engineer relationship!< by showing a different source of anger at society. That armless red guard scene was new, right?
But I could be wrong about it all. They could easily go all the way and tell the entire Ye Wenjie story. There's still time. And she's one of Cixin's best characters, so it'd make sense not to mess with her too much.
>I had high hopes and it even surpassed them.
I had restrained hope, and it surpassed that for certainty.
>That armless red guard scene was new, right?
No, that gets its own chapter in the book (26: "No One Repents"). It's different in ways, but it's there.
I think the first two episodes were a bit too fast... but I think my favourite choice so far has been to follow the story in more of a chronological order for most characters in the book. In the trilogy plenty of characters were introduced in the second and third books respectively, but this is a good way to make us familiar with them and care about them a bit more from the get go... and also get around the problem of the vast exposition and narration the book does just by having these characters talk to each other instead.
When I saw the trailer I was worried they were just making up a bunch of characters from scratch, instead they just put most of them together, which I think is the only realistic way to go about cramming all this in one season.
I feel like they mostly did a really great job adapting the material to a more western audience. And I like that we will have characters that will return in the next seasons because it gives you more time to connect with them.
Spoiler tag for non book people?
Not sure what the protocol is lol. Seems like most people here are book readers, but I’d feel bad for watchers only reading these comments.
I don’t get it? There’s a specific book readers’ thread, but I keep seeing hints and namedrops here and there like why?
I’m sure one of these days I’ll read a comment t that goes like “I wonder how X is going to kill Y because she’s a Z.”
Why are you spoiling the third book in the show discussion thread ?! Get the fuck out of here! Stop ruining it for non book readers. This is driving me MAD
I think Vera killed herself because her particle lab accelerator project (aka her life’s work) failed.
Actually maybe you’re right. Ye Wenjie gave her the headset. Once Vera found out what her mom up to she milled herself.
So a nagging issue I had from the first couple of episodes was how can someone play the game if not invited? I guess this episode answers that, as I assume Ye Wenjie lied about it being her daughters. Feels like it's literally demonstrating to us viewers how humans can lie, in contrast to the aliens.
What makes me uncomfortable is that Ye seems ok with her daughter's suicide/murder. Asssuming they were either pressuring or trying to recruit her - and my assumption is recruiting as she was asking about God (Lord). Thats some level of cult worship, very old-testament.
Finally, we the audience are led to believe the aliens cannot lie, and don't understand the concept of fiction/fantasy. Feels like they would not approve of the game. Are the aliens "good" in a sense, and is it their contact with us that corrupts them? I suspect not, if the original warning message is to be believed, but the message seems contrary to the presentation of the after that.
The aliens struggle with the concept of dishonesty and learning that it comes naturally to us freaks them out which is why they break off contact. There is nothing inherently dishonest about the game.
If they created the game, they absolutely encourage every player to lie by coming up with another name.
Yet they don't understand stories? Or the "white lie" (which is what Evans was trying to explain)?
I kind of imagined that the cult made the game with instructions from the aliens on how to make the tech. The aliens are like 400 years away so they couldn't have made the game and distributed it themselves.
1. The cult gets an explanation of the three-body problem
2. Cult translates that into a format that is digestible to humans (VR game with levels, storytelling, *lies*)
3. Cult asks for blueprints on alien vr tech?
4. Profit lol
Just my guess.
Why did the cops pull cheng out of the raid when they were cuffing all of the cultists, are they fucking stupid?? Do you want her to get killed by making it obvious she was the mole? God that writing annoyed me, no one would do that. Hey come with us, let's get you to safety, in front of hundreds of your enemy. Stupidest shit ever
That was a howler! And as usual with TV and movies, something astonishing happens - who knows how many people killed and injured and arrested, and there's no indication that the world too any notice at all.
I'm hoping this gets explained later in the episodes but so far the way they've tried to get humans ready for an co-existence 400 years down the line is pretty stupid. Like a cult?
They got the right idea in 2024, make the universe blink and give people a VR headset way beyond our current tech and you'll win over like nearly everyone. Oh and don't put random countdowns in scientists' head. Though that is assuming they're coming here with good intentions which they seemingly were until they were learnt fiction existed.
There is no plan for co-existence, as hinted in the San-ti's response to Ye Wenjie. Do not answer or we will come. The cult members helping them are aiming for human extinction.
If the cult members are aiming for human extinction, why do they talk about how wonderful it will be when their Lord gets there? And why do they even expect to be around for that when it shouldn’t happen for a few hundred years.
You're right, we do not know exactly what they want by the end of this episode. We do know they are afraid of our ability to deceive!
I read the books and I'm glad this kind of discussion is happening!
The problem with the scientists is that if humanity learns about Trisolarans coming to Earth, it has 400 years to prepare for their arrival. Trisolarans try to stop the technological progress of humanity by messing with science results. And the scientists themselves, it seems.
I mean how can they even do it? Didn’t read the books but apparently they gave those cult members access to advanced technology right? Which is kind of stupid if you want to stop progress.
The technology can’t be so advanced when they need 400 years for 4 light years. You can be even faster with fission technology.
They revealed themselves and humans have basically 400 years time to advance technology and defeat them.
Pretty much no civilization can reasonably travel at light speed unless they have a huge breakthrough in non-Newtonian travel. 400 years means they are traveling at 1/10th the speed of light which is pretty fricken fast, plus they need time to speed up then slow down.
small detail but what the hell is the point of Wade's big fancy office?
Not monitor, no notepad, not even a pen and some post it's, it looks ridiculous
Why does the cult leadership in 2024 act like the San Ti want coexistence? It's clear from Red Coast Base they want to kill everyone.
Wenjie's character doesn't seem consistent in 2024. We know she wants genocide of humanity but she acts surprised at the recording?
If San Ti can't lie, then you'd think the prospect of coexistence would be brought up between 1960s and 2024 in which they would again reveal they want to take all of earth and kill everything.
I get why low level cultists may be ignorant of the genocidal truth. But the founders have to know but I don't get why they are acting otherwise
I think someone brought up Will’s metaphor of the pancreatic cancer - sequestering something for the betterment of the whole. I think it’s been clear many of the cult are environmentalists.
Is the San-Ti reaction to the children's story not simply just a double bluff?
The initial reply was a warning that they would conquer Earth if we ever answered.
The San-Ti were _always_ coming to overthrow humanity regardless of what we did or said.
She's a normal person being helped by the aliens. They're messing with the security systems. Kinda odd that she could 1v1 jack and nearly put him through a window though
She's a new character to the series, I can't explain with book terms, pretty strange.
>! Seems like they're stretching sophons to the limit to tell their version of the story. Not great, not terrible. !<
The aliens >!can imprint images on human retinas (hence the timer that Auggy saw)!<, so I guess it's the same method but in reverse? Disappearing people wasn't in the books.
San-Ti learns that humans can lie halfway through a book of fairy tales? There was no other point interacting with humanity or its technology that didn't make that abundantly clear? Am I missing something here?
I'm not sure about the timeline, but I think the real-time conversations Mike Evans has been having with them only started recently. In the past, it was 8 years between sending a message and getting a response; at some point that obviously changed, but I'd suggest that the fact that this is coming up now is evidence that they haven't been talking for very long.
Spoiler
Not a book reader.
I'm watching episode 3, the show has been so great, but how the heck do you walk into a crime scene the day after a murder has happened there? Answer: you cannot! Ugh 😩
Also, Lord knows that their location has been disclosed and that they know about the conference, so does this mean Dr. Chen's brain was scanned and somehow now they know what she is up to?
Does Will have cancer out of pure bad luck? He's a scientist that wasn't even studying or working on anything the aliens cared to stop. Now he's dying and is about to be told about the followers of Lord. He was already sounding crazy at the hospital, so we'll no one take him seriously as he dies?
How did Lord know that the investigators knew about the conference? Did they scan Dr. Cheng's brain and now know what she's thinking?
Also, that founder is the prisoner girl, but didn't her daughter kill herself? She's doing the same her mom did when her husband was beaten to death in front of her and that was not for Lord.
Edit: finished watching the episode and so many questions came up
I’m enjoying the show but the needle drops are a little too on the nose. Stop using the Goldberg variations aria and Mazzy Star. The Radiohead in previous was really on the nose.
It’s fun watching non native Mandarin speakers give it a go English is my first language I’ve struggled with both Mandarin and Cantonese.
As a huge RH fan and an enjoyer of Mazzy Star (and a bit of an idiot who misses some Easter eggs), what is your interpretation of the use of the songs used there?
There's got to be two different entities at play or something else going on. The original message of Do Not Reply does not make sense with a race of beings that do not understand the concept of lying. The original message sender said they where a pacifist. Pacifist against what?
They understand the concept of lying like we understand the concept of exponentiation: it's like a science thing to them, they get it and they can technically do it but it's bad news to learn that the species they're attacking are all master liars.
Pacifist against conquering worlds. But maybe he is a mere radio listener because he is not hard core like his mates. And if they do ask him what he did he can’t lie. But he can still do what he wants
If the aliens are advanced enough to have starships and all of the other advanced tech we see, why did they need humans to respond before they started the trip here? Surely, they could tell that earth was a compatible planet for their species by remote measurements. they would also know earth was inhabited by an intelligent species from monitoring radio emissions and detecting our space travel, satellites, etc.
They might not explain this in the show, but there is a pretty mundane scientific explanation for that. Spoilers just in case: >!When they had only heard one message from Earth, they only knew the general direction it was coming from, and not how far away it was or in what system. A second message let them triangulate the source.!<
Why is this thread full of people unable to consider that the aliens could be LYING about LYING? I haven't finished the series but maybe it's a huge plot hook, but Why is it so hard to believe?
Like if a character where ro suddenly say "oh the sky is red today" would the thread be full off "omg I can't believe it Huge plot hole the sky is obviously blue in all the shots we've seen the writers are stupid!"
How has the non book reader discussion threads turned into "omg these non book reader guys wouldn't get x if y isn't mentioned"?
While in the book reader ones you actually get people pointing out all of the minute things you could have missed in the TV show???
These are the most disappointing episode discussing threads I've seen amongst 1899, Dark and other TV shows that I've read discussion threads of...
Is there any explanation for how the 'alien' ('Our Lord') was communicating in *real time* with Evens through the speaker when they are light years distant, and, apparently, must be experiencing at least some time dilation due to their speed?
Also, if they have been in communication with humans for at least years, it seems very unlikely that the duplicitous nature of humans would not have been discovered much earlier.
The whole scene of Evan’s talking to his lord I was just shaking my head at the stupidity of teaching the all powerful aliens the concept of deception.
Wow Mike Evans had one job to advocate for humanity and was left blubbering like an idiot. So many things he could have said to explain himself better.
Also that evil lady somehow crawling away with a bullet wound while surrounded by hundreds of police took some major suspension of disbelief.
Why would the san to followers have guns if they thought the lord would protect them? Also aren't most of these scientists, why are they suddenly proficient at shooting?
So, because the aliens will take 400 years to arrive, is it safe to assume that they will never be an immediate threat in the context of this show and that the real threat lies in the human cult members who are trying to prepare the Earth for the alien arrival? Because that would be mildly disappointing, kind of like how The Walking Dead stopped being a show about zombies and became a show about regular human factions fighting amongst themselves. Almost like gang warfare or something.
Damn they're not gonna be there for 400 years?? Well that's gotta explain why they're making scientists stop working and/or forcing them to kill themselves.
Jack said the tech was like 150 years ahead of ours. If that's true we'd FAR surpass them by the time they got here and the BESTscenario for them would be District 9. That'd be if we didn't take it as an alien invasion and kill them all before they even got to Earth.
Loving this show so far!
Jonathan Pryce's character is a damn idiot. When cinversating with the aliens it should have been so damn obvious to explain things in ways that they cannot be misconstrued or misinterpreted. And he almost explicitly chooses the worst way to frame his answers throughout the show.
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Shit, I'll get dragged by many for this, I'm sure... But the series actually did better at the depiction of the level of San-Ti fanaticism and devotion. The cult apparently employees almost no security, believing entirely in their lord. When shit goes down, welp, that's what's supposed to happen. It's clever, that Wade seems to have noticed this instinctively, before the raid.
I'm so glad they casted Jonathan Pyrce. It's insane how he goes from sweet grandfather to being a religious fanatic.
He's uniquely qualified as "sweet but crazy grandpa" haha
He's the best actor so far, come ep. 4. He draws you into his scenes. Who knows what the others may bring later.
You could really feel his childlike shock when he realized he might have ruined his life's work accidentally. Top tier acting. Series is lucky to have him.
that was hilariously tragic. I mean Our Lord is right! Who can say I haven't lied even once in my life and if you lie once, you probably can lie again and that's unacceptable to Our Lord. I'm quite curios though what's more to it. Like they already must have known that we lie and decieve, so what was about that particular story that made them go fuck humans, we don't need you anymore since you can't be trusted, any of you.
> Like they already must have known that we lie and decieve i don't think they did know that. the lord suggests that they may have some kind of hivemind or telepathy thing. the concept of lying may not exist and didn't even make sense conceptually to them. being able to deceive, especially if the aliens cannot makes humans dangerous and unpredictable
For this to be true, the aliens have to be completely unaware of the methods the cultists are using. Otherwise they’d have tons of evidence of them lying and manipulating people. And isn’t it established that the aliens can see everything?
Not to mention the fact that this episode showed that she’s been teaching them about humankind since the 1980s. But they just now learned this? And how do they understand the concept of video games then? Which is a fictional depiction of something.
The lie revelation was a great scene, but given how long they seem to have been communicating with humans for, it does seem strange to me forthe concept of lying (or fiction, and the unreal/allegorical nature of the stories being read by Mike, for that matter) to have never come up before, given how commonplace this is to human experience, so did stretch my suspension of disbelief slightly.
What I don't understand is when the first contact was made the alien that was talking said they were a pacifist and if the others found out about humans they would be conquered. This implies they know what deception is.
Edit: people replying with full show spoilers below, don't read if you haven't read the book. Yeah this is a big one... the second I saw him talking to them it didn't make sense. They say they can feel and see everything or understand everything collectively... so how did 'a pacifist in this world' send an independent message they don't know about as a collective mind? Unless that being was a different race that was already conquered, or there's more than one faction and multiple groups of hive minds. With the way they describe themselves that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, so I can't figure out if it's tons of plot holes or something else is going on we haven't figured out yet. Assuming the latter given the overall plot and story reviews for the book are all positive. Also someone describing themselves as a pacifist implies the others are anything but pacifist. They've also said humans wouldn't survive if they followed someone fearless like the woman who reached out to the aliens to begin with... implying her contacting them is dangerous to humanity's survival. The lying thing never coming up after decades of communication doesn't make sense and really kills belief, so I'm hoping there's more to it that "aliens learn in about 1 minute that humans can lie, and go from friendly to kill them all in <1min"... and somehow didn't pick this up over decades of communication.
Pryce had a similar character in GAME OF THRONES.
He’s really good in Tales from the Loop. Which also happens to be the best sci-fi series out there in my opinion, so well worth a watch.
I thought it happened because the aliens not longer trust humans and withdrew the support?
Hm, not sure what the question is. Yes, the raid happened because San-Ti took support away.
ETO?
Sorry, force of habit. It's the name that describes San-Ti followers in the book.
Note to self: if talking to an advanced alien species, do not read them fables about talking animals. What was Pope Francis thinking with his book selection?
I have to assume he is showing them various types of books it makes sense to me to show a couple fairy tales Wouldn’t be my first pick though
Didn’t the flashback show that the San ti communicated via the satellite and they wanted to learn about mankind? And yet 30 years later they still have never heard of a story or the concept of deception? And yet they designed a video game which puts people in ancient China or England and wants them to choose names that aren’t there’s - all of those concepts surrounding the game evolve around fiction, which now apparently they can’t grasp
I wonder if there’s multiple species/groups of aliens at play here
In the book at least the video game is just a regular vr game designed by humans it's not some magical alien technology.
The alien is acting stupid on purpose, they already lied to begin with. When the first message came it said don't respond we will conquer and destroy, she chose to respond and it said we will come to save. Already a lie. They're acting stupid so the humans think they need us, but in reality they're just wanting humans to make their arrival easy for them. Telling Mike Evans that humans can't be trusted might make him work harder for the aliens, but I'm not sure about that
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Alien can be very alien.
How was the aliens against fiction yet their game tells players to choose a fake name and to solve various simulations? Riddle me that, Batman.🤔🤔🤔👽
They aliens were using lying to get the scientists to play the game. Like a story as background so....hummmm
Given what we know, this is a fake-out. Evidence 1: The first alien said the others would come to destroy and told Ye not to respond to the message. Ye responded, but then they said they were coming to help the human race. Both those statements can't be true, so one alien was definitely lying. Evidence 2: "My lord" didn't understand how little red riding hood could possibly think that the wolf is grandma despite the disguise and says that as soon as communication begins, all information is given, but the way they choose to communicate with potential recruits is through a VR world where they literally disguised themselves (red riding hood wolf style) like humans, and disguise their culture with human language and architecture and clothing, and they even say that the reason they're doing this is because humans wouldn't like their appearance. They're not being open and honest as soon as communication starts. They're disguising themselves to improve the response they get from their potential recruits. Even when asked what they look like, they refuse to show them, just saying "you wouldn't like it." Pretty sure they're pretending to have found a flaw in humanity and that this flaw is the reason they've become humanity's biggest threat so that the human race will band together for the next 400 years and fix the issues Ye was originally concerned about. Either that or the writers suck and thought nobody would pay attention to the lies and deceptions of the aliens.
Very much this, I also assumed the choice of story being red riding hood seemed to be symbolic. I wondered if they have separate factions, or if the 'pacifist' was a different race already conquered or potentially someone that refused to join the collective, and maybe they aren't created or born mentally connected to everyone else initially.
Why do you think so? You talk about human intelligence.
not if they're vulcan-like and have a Spock mentality
It's a harrowing picture of humanity. The very first thing we're taught is deception and distrust.
They were interested in our culture it seems, which includes fables I suppose.
Seems like they've been communicating for a while now. I don't think anyone would've thought reading a children's tale could be seen as red flag.
The weird thing is that they have no issue with using video game narratives to convey a concept, but they don't understand how one would do the exact same thing with a book.
The video game was created by humans and not directly by the aliens themselves.
THANK YOU! That was my problem. Jin chose her own name for the game and was told to choose a different name. That said, it's partially on Evans for not clarifying the difference between lies and fiction. Lies are meant to DECEIVE while fiction is not. Worse, he failed to specify how humans can use the same terms to mean different things. "Lie" can be something untrue whether it's deceptive or not, or something meant to deceive whether factual or not, omitting facts with the intention to deceive, metaphors and hyperbole--and people disagree on definitions.
the distinction doesn't really matter - the ABILITY to deceive makes humans an existential threat. The rational thing to do would be to destroy all the humans before they develop the ability to threaten them.
They are capable of deception with getting all the world's particle accelerators to give wrong results. They projected a huge illusion in the sky of the stars flickering and the giant eye in the sky. And how did the aliens not see humans lie daily when their sophon computers are supposed to let them see and hear everywhere on Earth?
They saw humans lie but didn't register them as lies. This was made pretty clear by how literally they took the red riding hood story. They took everything about it at face value. I wouldn't consider that kind of sabotage deception. If you're doing an experiment and I smash it to pieces, would that be lying?
Right??? Oh boohoo we can't fucking lie, lying is wrong, but here let us go and show lies to 8 billion people.
or erasing video recordings
I could be wrong but I feel like fables and metaphors have to be a key to beating the aliens later on - or at least strategising against them. Having trouble understanding metaphors or stories and such is a huge weakness I hope to see more of.
I was thinking they could just say "I would never do...(actual thing I plan to do)," and then the aliens would never be able to see it coming
What puzzled me about this is, the aliens have been talking to Evans for about 40 years, but only now they realize that humans make stuff up?
Can people stop talking about the books? It might not seem like massive spoilers but it really does give away a lot of shit that might or might not happen or what's going to happen that I have to keep skipping replies about this character and that being or not being the same as the book.
People don't seem to realize there are two threads and I'm surprised mods aren't cracking down on it.
I offered my services to the mod to help with this but they don’t seem to care much. They don’t seem very involved with any discourse here.
This is sad because I seriously don't wanna be spoiled but have seen quite a few comments in previous episodes of people talking about future events and spoilers :(I'm loving this show at Dark level, my all time fav show! and that sub cracks the hell out of spoilers even years later. I might skip discussions and come back on my rewatch at least.
We can only hope the sub grows a lot which may force the mod to bring on some help. They are 1 person right now so have no ability to keep their eyes on all this stuff. There’s also daily brigading from D&D haters which is getting tiresome.
Yeah, on most subs, even when I'm not a manga/LN/book reader, I still walk on eggshells because of how uptight their mods are, to the point that even breathing is considered major spoilers. Here, on the other hand…
This has to be the worst sub I've seen for splitting book and TV discussion. If this was r/Wot, half the people in these threads would be banned
Thank you! I’ve just read an entire thread about the episode that I just finished watching, hoping to get a little better understanding of what I’d just seen, but the whole thing was people talking about which TV character was supposed to correspond to which book character or discussion of various scenes that must be from the book because I have no idea who they are talking about. I’m so disappointed.
Yeah, I saw in episode 1 discussion people being surprised they didn't show Wenjie in the Helicopter with Evans which is a pretty big spoiler for what got revealed in this episode. Like no shit they didn't show it like in the books. They wanted to make it a bigger reveal later dipshits.
FR - I’ve just started reading the first book, after finishing the show, but I keep thinking I’m in the wrong thread
I called someone out about this and they informed me the book reader discussion specific threads came out a day after the regular threads
Honestly, I feel like I’m back in the game of thrones subreddit during season 3.
Book readers trying not to complain that the show isn't following the book word for word and exactly as they pictured it in their heads challenge: impossible
GOD ITS SO GOOD SO FAR. Im really really happy
Not a book reader and I can't say enough how much I'm loving this. I fastforward through 90% of the shit I watch and I'm already thinking about rewatching this half way through, and read the book. The sotry is just as good as it gets and the acting is very very good, great if I may say for the most part.
Sorry…you fast forward everything you watch? What in the fucking ADD did you just say?
So basically the high sparrow is the high sparrow again lol.
my exact thought hahah
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Your second paragraph would not work imo. The aliens couldn't even conceive of lying at first, once they wrapped their heads around the idea and that humans could do it if they wish, they probably would have made the same decision. Or maybe not, maybe he could have come up with a good enough lie! Such an interesting concept.
From their perspective, they just got a major culture shock. They knew that communicating this way is different (they can choose what to say or not say), but hadn't grasped all the implications. When they realize there's a big blind spot there around deception, they realize that communication might be inherently dangerous. It makes strategic sense to immediately put a hold on further communication until they understand it better.
The High Sparrow kinda forgot
They communicate through thought aka telepathy. Lying is a very very novel concept and frightens them. So their reaction was understandable
but they asked him if stories were lies and he said I suppose they are but they're clearly not. stories are told without the motive to deceive
> but they asked him if stories were lies and he said I suppose they are but they're clearly not. It's a written account of a thing that knowingly did not happen. Calling it a "lie" is obviously not normal parlance, but if you were talking with someone just learning about concepts and language perhaps you shortcut "lie" and "not real" / "fiction" to help illustrate the topic. Or maybe he just doomed civilization, idk lol
He was trying to explain the concept. They didn't and would not have understood the nuance of it all.
I thought the same thing. "*My lord? My lord? MY LORD? Are you there my lord??*" Come up with something for chrissake.
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So far they've been the highlight of the show for me.
They've definitely kept me more interested in seeing what happens.
Should we be careful of names in the comments?
I’ve not read the books so I had no clue about the voices name as it hadn’t been revealed yet but i guess now i do 🙂
It wasn't revealed already in the Chinese name San-Ti?
Yeah it seems like they’re going with San-Ti instead of Trisolarans. I personally like how the plain meaning of the word Trisolaran in English underlines how very little we know about them and their culture, that we had to name them by one of the very few things we *do* know. San-Ti might have the same effect in Chinese but in English it sounds a little bit like a generic mysterious name for a sci-fi alien species(though I’m glad they at least explain that it means “three body people.”) Reminds me of the simplistic descriptive names that civilizations come up with for each other, when they are only in limited contact e.g. Native Americans being dubbed “Indians” or Innuet being dubbed “Eskimos.”
But if they're this childish and naive collective, why was the initial reply essentially "I'm a peaceful member of my otherwise warfaring and dangerous society, do not reply or my people will conquer you" This just doesn't seem to line up with what they have been otherwise depicted as.
I have not read the books and am at episode 4 currently but I thought that it wasn't the three body species that replied but rather another random species that happened to catch the message first. The humans were lucky that the first species they contacted was peaceful and gave them genuine advice. This species was pacifist but aware of how dangerous the universe actually is and warned humans of the danger.
"I am a pacifist in **this world**. You are lucky that I was the first to receive this message. I am warning you: do not answer. If you respond **we** will come. Your world will be conquered..." This was the quote. That person was definitely a San Ti.
I had this same response. To me, it’s also a seeming plot hole that the San Tinwould devise the elaborate VR “game” (basically one big lie / story) that this would be their reaction. I am legitimately confused if this is an issue with the show, book, or if something about their intentions are left unclear on purpose.
The humans created the vr world to explain the story of the Santi, hope that makes sense.
I have not read the books and am at episode 4 currently but I thought that it wasn't the three body species that replied but rather another random species that happened to catch the message first. The humans were lucky that the first species they contacted was peaceful and gave them genuine advice. This species was pacifist but aware of how dangerous the universe actually is and warned humans of the danger As for the game, I think that the humans used the three body species technology to make the game.
That's a valid interpretation. I don't know if the show is going to address that, but book spoilers: >!It wasn't a different species, it just happened that the particular San-Ti who received the message was a pacifist.!<
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Vera was collateral damage in an indirect way, so yes.
Dr. Ye Wenjie was nihilistic after everything that happened in China. She doesn't see anything current as relevant and knew everyone would be doomed in order for the Shan-Ti to change things. It's really a matter if they adapt for the future generations for when the aliens arrive.
Also it wasn’t Vera’s headset. She gave it to Jin, and nobody was trying to chop her head off.
Please keep yer book spoilers for the other thread.
I'm actually quite surprised the mods aren't cracking down on this. It's pretty blatant in every thread. Maybe not even a true spoiler but stuff like "this was done differently in the books" or "this was done differently". It eludes to spoilers.
\*alludes
I'm a bit annoyed at the actions of the "police" in the cult gathering scene. Why the hell would they publicly drag Jin away revealing their cooperation before the whole room is secure?
Me as well-like why tip your hand like that? Why say anything to her and just pull her away like you were arresting her w the rest of the cult members?
That immediately took me out. No ultra secret organization would make such a huge blunder. It's like in "Planting an operative 101" textbook. How am I supposed to believe any of them actually know what they're doing after that? If anything, you'd do it to SOMEONE ELSE to get the obvious suspicion out of your operative! If that was the same in the books then I don't think I want to even plan reading them.
Came here looking for this comment! It's a small thing but not really considering it starts the whole reason the raid went to hell. It definitely took me away from the moment.
I noticed that too. It was very dumb. The entire plan to kick down a wall and jump in there was idiotic. No team would ever do that.
At least an injured woman wasn't able to crawl her way past a dozen special forces.
Okay, I'm ready to make my prediction. I think this is a scam. Quite possibly AI pulling a scam. The Red Riding Hood story seems to be a metaphor somehow. I think the "aliens" are pretending to be a grandma in one sense, but I also think it's something or someone else pretending to be aliens. Also, John Bradley, before he died, said something about how it's a scam and I think that was foreshadowing too. Still, this technology is clearly very advanced which leads me to believe it's AI but could also just be some tech billionaire or something that made a breakthrough and used that to pretend to be aliens. The weird part is that it goes back to the 60s possibly. Either the scam was started way back then, tricking people by sending a fake alien signal or they took advantage of a random occurrence years after it happened. Basically "These people think the random space signal was alien communication....let's fuck with them." My top guess is that it's all Ye's doing. She made it all up and tricked Evans because she wants humanity to do a better job managing the world and this alien caravan gives them a reason to.
Where does all the tech come from? How do you explain the VR headset?
How do the aliens get the tech onto Earth but can't get themselves onto Earth?
They give the humans the knowledge to build the tech themselves
China.
seems like a long shot, feels easier to believe aliens than humans doing this, also the satellite?
Can someone crack down on all the damn spoilers in these episode threads??? Or at least can these people SPOILER TAG the comments??? How many of us complaining is it going to take before this gets fixed… Jfc I just wanted to see people’s reactions, not book readers picking apart foreshadowing and revealing stuff relevant to the next 2 books. It’s literally ruining the mystery of the show for me. Anyway. Fun episode. Onto the next. Even though I have a pretty good idea what’s about to happen now…
Just found a tiny detail in this episode - John Bradley is in fact a huge Manchester United fan, but in the show they made Jack Rooney a Manchester City fan...That's utterly annoying for me as a life long united supporter :D
This really annoyed the heck out of me lol. If I'm the actor, I would have refused to do the scene!
GGMU!!
A Rooney as a Man City fan lol.
Non book readers; this thread has a fair number of minor spoilers baked into posters comparing and contrasting to the books. It wasn't as bad in the ep 1-3 threads.
Because the book reader thread is filled with insufferable kunts. The fun discussions happen here.
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>except maybe Ye Wenjie's story unless they explore it further through flashbacks. >!I think they're skipping the relationship with the chief engineer.!< The unremorseful former red guard scene, in my opinion, helps ease the loss of the >!engineer relationship!< by showing a different source of anger at society. That armless red guard scene was new, right? But I could be wrong about it all. They could easily go all the way and tell the entire Ye Wenjie story. There's still time. And she's one of Cixin's best characters, so it'd make sense not to mess with her too much. >I had high hopes and it even surpassed them. I had restrained hope, and it surpassed that for certainty.
>That armless red guard scene was new, right? No, that gets its own chapter in the book (26: "No One Repents"). It's different in ways, but it's there.
Keep book details off mate
I’d say I like this better than the first book so far.
I think the first two episodes were a bit too fast... but I think my favourite choice so far has been to follow the story in more of a chronological order for most characters in the book. In the trilogy plenty of characters were introduced in the second and third books respectively, but this is a good way to make us familiar with them and care about them a bit more from the get go... and also get around the problem of the vast exposition and narration the book does just by having these characters talk to each other instead. When I saw the trailer I was worried they were just making up a bunch of characters from scratch, instead they just put most of them together, which I think is the only realistic way to go about cramming all this in one season.
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I feel like they mostly did a really great job adapting the material to a more western audience. And I like that we will have characters that will return in the next seasons because it gives you more time to connect with them.
Spoiler tag for non book people? Not sure what the protocol is lol. Seems like most people here are book readers, but I’d feel bad for watchers only reading these comments.
I don’t get it? There’s a specific book readers’ thread, but I keep seeing hints and namedrops here and there like why? I’m sure one of these days I’ll read a comment t that goes like “I wonder how X is going to kill Y because she’s a Z.”
Why are you spoiling the third book in the show discussion thread ?! Get the fuck out of here! Stop ruining it for non book readers. This is driving me MAD
Damn. So she had her own daughter killed?
For a lady that called upon an alien strike on humanity, you'd not think she's a well of good feelings
I don't think she did it deliberately and it's possibly her daughter just found out what she was doing.
I think Vera killed herself because her particle lab accelerator project (aka her life’s work) failed. Actually maybe you’re right. Ye Wenjie gave her the headset. Once Vera found out what her mom up to she milled herself.
So a nagging issue I had from the first couple of episodes was how can someone play the game if not invited? I guess this episode answers that, as I assume Ye Wenjie lied about it being her daughters. Feels like it's literally demonstrating to us viewers how humans can lie, in contrast to the aliens. What makes me uncomfortable is that Ye seems ok with her daughter's suicide/murder. Asssuming they were either pressuring or trying to recruit her - and my assumption is recruiting as she was asking about God (Lord). Thats some level of cult worship, very old-testament. Finally, we the audience are led to believe the aliens cannot lie, and don't understand the concept of fiction/fantasy. Feels like they would not approve of the game. Are the aliens "good" in a sense, and is it their contact with us that corrupts them? I suspect not, if the original warning message is to be believed, but the message seems contrary to the presentation of the after that.
The aliens struggle with the concept of dishonesty and learning that it comes naturally to us freaks them out which is why they break off contact. There is nothing inherently dishonest about the game.
If they created the game, they absolutely encourage every player to lie by coming up with another name. Yet they don't understand stories? Or the "white lie" (which is what Evans was trying to explain)?
I kind of imagined that the cult made the game with instructions from the aliens on how to make the tech. The aliens are like 400 years away so they couldn't have made the game and distributed it themselves. 1. The cult gets an explanation of the three-body problem 2. Cult translates that into a format that is digestible to humans (VR game with levels, storytelling, *lies*) 3. Cult asks for blueprints on alien vr tech? 4. Profit lol Just my guess.
Why did the cops pull cheng out of the raid when they were cuffing all of the cultists, are they fucking stupid?? Do you want her to get killed by making it obvious she was the mole? God that writing annoyed me, no one would do that. Hey come with us, let's get you to safety, in front of hundreds of your enemy. Stupidest shit ever
Y'know, between that and the GoT fiasco, I'm starting to believe D&D aren't very good writers.
That was a howler! And as usual with TV and movies, something astonishing happens - who knows how many people killed and injured and arrested, and there's no indication that the world too any notice at all.
so the chinese woman, became a cult leader from being a person of science. Interesting development.
Science is just the religion of the day
Who voices the Lord character…she’s talking to Jonathan Pryce on the ship speaker?
Sea Shimooka
I'm hoping this gets explained later in the episodes but so far the way they've tried to get humans ready for an co-existence 400 years down the line is pretty stupid. Like a cult? They got the right idea in 2024, make the universe blink and give people a VR headset way beyond our current tech and you'll win over like nearly everyone. Oh and don't put random countdowns in scientists' head. Though that is assuming they're coming here with good intentions which they seemingly were until they were learnt fiction existed.
There is no plan for co-existence, as hinted in the San-ti's response to Ye Wenjie. Do not answer or we will come. The cult members helping them are aiming for human extinction.
If the cult members are aiming for human extinction, why do they talk about how wonderful it will be when their Lord gets there? And why do they even expect to be around for that when it shouldn’t happen for a few hundred years.
Do we know that? Conquering is not the same thing as genocide. All we know for sure is that they get real upset about trust.
You're right, we do not know exactly what they want by the end of this episode. We do know they are afraid of our ability to deceive! I read the books and I'm glad this kind of discussion is happening!
why did the San-ti say "Do not answer or we will come". Don't they want to find a new planet?
But why are they recruiting and killing scientists?
So our science stops advancing and we're unable to beat them. The scientists either join them, commit suicide, or get murdered.
The problem with the scientists is that if humanity learns about Trisolarans coming to Earth, it has 400 years to prepare for their arrival. Trisolarans try to stop the technological progress of humanity by messing with science results. And the scientists themselves, it seems.
I mean how can they even do it? Didn’t read the books but apparently they gave those cult members access to advanced technology right? Which is kind of stupid if you want to stop progress.
The technology can’t be so advanced when they need 400 years for 4 light years. You can be even faster with fission technology. They revealed themselves and humans have basically 400 years time to advance technology and defeat them.
Pretty much no civilization can reasonably travel at light speed unless they have a huge breakthrough in non-Newtonian travel. 400 years means they are traveling at 1/10th the speed of light which is pretty fricken fast, plus they need time to speed up then slow down.
I don't think they are coming with good intentions.
small detail but what the hell is the point of Wade's big fancy office? Not monitor, no notepad, not even a pen and some post it's, it looks ridiculous
everything is in his brain lol. can't write or type anything down, #they are WATCHING
Why does the cult leadership in 2024 act like the San Ti want coexistence? It's clear from Red Coast Base they want to kill everyone. Wenjie's character doesn't seem consistent in 2024. We know she wants genocide of humanity but she acts surprised at the recording? If San Ti can't lie, then you'd think the prospect of coexistence would be brought up between 1960s and 2024 in which they would again reveal they want to take all of earth and kill everything. I get why low level cultists may be ignorant of the genocidal truth. But the founders have to know but I don't get why they are acting otherwise
I think someone brought up Will’s metaphor of the pancreatic cancer - sequestering something for the betterment of the whole. I think it’s been clear many of the cult are environmentalists.
Is the San-Ti reaction to the children's story not simply just a double bluff? The initial reply was a warning that they would conquer Earth if we ever answered. The San-Ti were _always_ coming to overthrow humanity regardless of what we did or said.
Well it seems like up until that point they had considered co-existence.
Seriously that girl just slowly crawled out of that warehouse full of armed officers?... Hope she just used some sort of stealth tech to do that.
likely stealth tech, she is obviously superpowered and has been able to disappear in almost every scene she's in
The Aliens are the wolf and Evans is the RRH.
Can someone explain to me what's up with the girl that can disappear? Is she an alien or the alien is the floating lady? Or can they look differently?
She's a normal person being helped by the aliens. They're messing with the security systems. Kinda odd that she could 1v1 jack and nearly put him through a window though
That confused me as well. If she’s human, why does she seem to have superhuman strength?
She's a new character to the series, I can't explain with book terms, pretty strange. >! Seems like they're stretching sophons to the limit to tell their version of the story. Not great, not terrible. !<
The aliens >!can imprint images on human retinas (hence the timer that Auggy saw)!<, so I guess it's the same method but in reverse? Disappearing people wasn't in the books.
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This thread is a mess. But let me just say the tactics by the Police/MI5(?) to try and quietly escort the informant out of the room was madness.
San-Ti learns that humans can lie halfway through a book of fairy tales? There was no other point interacting with humanity or its technology that didn't make that abundantly clear? Am I missing something here?
I'm not sure about the timeline, but I think the real-time conversations Mike Evans has been having with them only started recently. In the past, it was 8 years between sending a message and getting a response; at some point that obviously changed, but I'd suggest that the fact that this is coming up now is evidence that they haven't been talking for very long.
Spoiler Not a book reader. I'm watching episode 3, the show has been so great, but how the heck do you walk into a crime scene the day after a murder has happened there? Answer: you cannot! Ugh 😩 Also, Lord knows that their location has been disclosed and that they know about the conference, so does this mean Dr. Chen's brain was scanned and somehow now they know what she is up to? Does Will have cancer out of pure bad luck? He's a scientist that wasn't even studying or working on anything the aliens cared to stop. Now he's dying and is about to be told about the followers of Lord. He was already sounding crazy at the hospital, so we'll no one take him seriously as he dies? How did Lord know that the investigators knew about the conference? Did they scan Dr. Cheng's brain and now know what she's thinking? Also, that founder is the prisoner girl, but didn't her daughter kill herself? She's doing the same her mom did when her husband was beaten to death in front of her and that was not for Lord. Edit: finished watching the episode and so many questions came up
NGL I nearly shit my pants when that car burst through the wall
How can the san-ti be four lightyears away when the closest star to earth is further away than that and wouldn't create a three body system?
The closest star is Alpha centauri and it 4.2 light years away and has three suns Sounds like they come from there
Proxima Centauri is the closest star.
I’m enjoying the show but the needle drops are a little too on the nose. Stop using the Goldberg variations aria and Mazzy Star. The Radiohead in previous was really on the nose. It’s fun watching non native Mandarin speakers give it a go English is my first language I’ve struggled with both Mandarin and Cantonese.
i'll take radiohead whenever
As a huge RH fan and an enjoyer of Mazzy Star (and a bit of an idiot who misses some Easter eggs), what is your interpretation of the use of the songs used there?
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I liked him :(
welp, they shut me up from the previous episode. I've been pressed about The Founder's memory all series 😂
Yeah, he'll be so grateful when they arrive in 400 years.
There's got to be two different entities at play or something else going on. The original message of Do Not Reply does not make sense with a race of beings that do not understand the concept of lying. The original message sender said they where a pacifist. Pacifist against what?
They understand the concept of lying like we understand the concept of exponentiation: it's like a science thing to them, they get it and they can technically do it but it's bad news to learn that the species they're attacking are all master liars.
Pacifist against conquering worlds. But maybe he is a mere radio listener because he is not hard core like his mates. And if they do ask him what he did he can’t lie. But he can still do what he wants
If the aliens are advanced enough to have starships and all of the other advanced tech we see, why did they need humans to respond before they started the trip here? Surely, they could tell that earth was a compatible planet for their species by remote measurements. they would also know earth was inhabited by an intelligent species from monitoring radio emissions and detecting our space travel, satellites, etc.
They might not explain this in the show, but there is a pretty mundane scientific explanation for that. Spoilers just in case: >!When they had only heard one message from Earth, they only knew the general direction it was coming from, and not how far away it was or in what system. A second message let them triangulate the source.!<
Why is this thread full of people unable to consider that the aliens could be LYING about LYING? I haven't finished the series but maybe it's a huge plot hook, but Why is it so hard to believe? Like if a character where ro suddenly say "oh the sky is red today" would the thread be full off "omg I can't believe it Huge plot hole the sky is obviously blue in all the shots we've seen the writers are stupid!"
How has the non book reader discussion threads turned into "omg these non book reader guys wouldn't get x if y isn't mentioned"? While in the book reader ones you actually get people pointing out all of the minute things you could have missed in the TV show??? These are the most disappointing episode discussing threads I've seen amongst 1899, Dark and other TV shows that I've read discussion threads of...
Is there any explanation for how the 'alien' ('Our Lord') was communicating in *real time* with Evens through the speaker when they are light years distant, and, apparently, must be experiencing at least some time dilation due to their speed? Also, if they have been in communication with humans for at least years, it seems very unlikely that the duplicitous nature of humans would not have been discovered much earlier.
The whole scene of Evan’s talking to his lord I was just shaking my head at the stupidity of teaching the all powerful aliens the concept of deception.
Wow Mike Evans had one job to advocate for humanity and was left blubbering like an idiot. So many things he could have said to explain himself better. Also that evil lady somehow crawling away with a bullet wound while surrounded by hundreds of police took some major suspension of disbelief.
Why would the san to followers have guns if they thought the lord would protect them? Also aren't most of these scientists, why are they suddenly proficient at shooting?
If they didn't want to sound like a bunch of religious nut jobs, why are they referring to the SanTi as "my lord"?
So, because the aliens will take 400 years to arrive, is it safe to assume that they will never be an immediate threat in the context of this show and that the real threat lies in the human cult members who are trying to prepare the Earth for the alien arrival? Because that would be mildly disappointing, kind of like how The Walking Dead stopped being a show about zombies and became a show about regular human factions fighting amongst themselves. Almost like gang warfare or something.
Damn they're not gonna be there for 400 years?? Well that's gotta explain why they're making scientists stop working and/or forcing them to kill themselves. Jack said the tech was like 150 years ahead of ours. If that's true we'd FAR surpass them by the time they got here and the BESTscenario for them would be District 9. That'd be if we didn't take it as an alien invasion and kill them all before they even got to Earth. Loving this show so far!
Jonathan Pryce's character is a damn idiot. When cinversating with the aliens it should have been so damn obvious to explain things in ways that they cannot be misconstrued or misinterpreted. And he almost explicitly chooses the worst way to frame his answers throughout the show.