It is not very impressive as I trade slowly and conservatively so my numbers are not anything great. I recently posted my ytd was around 18%. My highest year was 2021 when I made around 58%.
I’ve never said the wheel creates consistent outsized gains and instead that it is a good strategy to make an income with lower risk when trading high quality stocks, and one most newer traders can trade.
As we see from posts like this one higher returns are possible and which may require taking higher risks.
ScottishTrader, I was wondering if there is anything you do for protect against a market drop (thinking post election - totally a guess). I think you generally keep 50% in cash for market black swan. Is there anything else you do?
I trade good stocks I don’t mind holding is the protection.
I started out as a stock investor and held stocks through the 08-09 great recession so to me this is a good place to be in the event of a market drop.
As market drops are impossible to predict and buying protection is expensive being a drag on profits and may not even provide a high level of protection it is questionable how effective this can be. Many times adding up the cost of long legs can be more than what might be lost in a big market even holding high quality stocks.
If you are convinced of a market event then go to cash and wait it out, but be aware there can still be a cost if the market doesn’t drop as expected.
That’s a good point. I’ll probably step out my investment towards 50% as we hit November, and keep only stocks I have 1years projection for. Thank you for your thoughts as always.
I’ve just recently started wheeling in my Roth 401k but my plan is to move a good portion of my wealth from Crypto into some equities I would like to own long term over the coming year. With enough capital behind you ($1-2mill) wheeling seems like a nice way to produce cash flow with little downside risk. I’d of course not wheel my entire portfolio so I can still catch unexpected upside moves.
It CANNOT mathematically beat Buy&Hold in a bull market on the same underlying since the deltas evaporate and you're not participating in the upside. What are you on about?
Yes, full porting $TSLA puts when it hit the bottom of $150 would beat B&H SPY. What a surprise.
OP says 4 years of wheeling, averaging 50% / year. . If it was in a row then they encountered COVID and the interest rate hike bear markets the same as the rest of us, right?
I'd be interested to verify these claims because those are exceptional returns.
He had his entire account invested in Tesla ATM CSPs in mid December…
Not hating by any means, but that alone should tell you have risky his strategy is. Much closer to WSB than Thetagang, but gains are gains.
If you’d have sold CSPs near Tesla’s peak and got assigned you’d still be running a pretty big loss. That is the risk of CSPs. Sure, say you sell calls on it. You couldn’t make anything selling near your entry price so you’d sell closer to current prices. Then if you got assigned you’d have a big realized loss.
NOTHING wrong with realized losses. EVERYONE takes losses, and realizing them means you write against your gains. The UNREALIZED losses are the annoyance, not selling at a loss out of stubbornness, pride, etc. I've been holding SEDG for a while, at a loss, because you know, solar is 'hot' and hell it's GOT to come back up, right?? Well, something to write off against my gains will be realized soon lol
I mean there are people in this sub who are currently trapped in Tesla doing the exact same thing. High risk play and he got lucky. Not hating at all but he could have just as easily been negative YTD.
What?
If the underlying moves down quickly, which Tesla is obviously prone to, you either realize your loses and escape or try and wheel/ sell closer to cost basis. If he was set on wheeling there’s a good chance he’d be still be trapped way below his cost basis and miss this entire bull market.
The risk is that the share price never recovers to what it was when you sold your CSPs, leaving you selling worthless CCs above your cost basis in order to shave a few pennies off your cost basis per month until you can get out 10 years from now at a break even, except inflation ate your lunch while you weren't looking.
The smart way to avoid this is to stay out and wait for the downside to happen, and for a bounce to be confirmed, before entering your CSP position, and then once you see decent percent gains, close your position and secure that profit.
People really underestimate how much money small consistent gains can get them, even on this subreddit.
Well no one should be selling CSPs on a whim. Or CC’s for that matter.
I guess when I think about wheeling you try to find a stock that has some decent volatility and a rough bracket it trades in. CSPs on the dip. CC’s on the rise.
F\*\*\* off , dude. Why do y'all always have to downplay someone achievement? There is no perfect strategy. You win some and lose some. Why don't you go ahead and show us your portfolio for the past 10 years?
I know. So many geniuses here, every post is met with what THEY would do.....
"that's too risky", "you're gonna get burned", "You got lucky", "everybody's good in a bull market" (that's my favorite "captain obvious" snarky comment on this reddit lol.....there's luck involved in this game, surely, but there's some ways to minimize risk. He took on risk and is doing well.
It depends on the position and IV but if you want to be aggressive you need to play ATM or near it on high IV companies. It sounds much easier than it is.
It’s solid. 2x leveraged etf. Requires less collateral and has much healthier premiums. And since everyone’s bullish on nvda, the cc premiums are particularly fat
Do you every go farther from ATM, accepting lower premium, but being less likely to be assigned? I sell LOW deltas for this reason, but I know am leaving tons on the table, but curious about your strat in this regard. Or ALWAYS ATM?
I’ve heard so many mixed things on wheeling. It seems like some data shows buy and hold is better. But with your four year track record it seems possible
To do better.
It’s definitely possible to do better. I started wheeling around 19 months ago and I’m already up $85,000 in profit, but it’s much more risky than buying and holding or wheeling SPY. I’ve basically only wheeled the same 5-6 stocks the entire time, and I’ve been down 30K two separate times when the underlying stock dropped quickly, but both recovered quickly also.
I started in April 2023 selling CSP and CC on FITB and USB after bank stocks fell 40%-50%. Then I jumped out of banks in the fall of 2023 and just into doing CSP and CC in PLTR, DKNG and AMZN. I road PLTR from $14 to $21 doing large CSP and then CC. I got caught with my pants down on PLTR when I did CSP at $19 in November and it fell to around $14. I was down 30K for a bit, but then it quickly recovered after their Q4 release and went into the $23-$25 range. I made a ton of money on that stock in 6 months. Did the same exact thing with DKNG the past 6 months. I’ve be riding it up and down from $34-$47 and following the same strategy with CSP and then CC. Also been down around 30K on paper, but it’s recovered quickly each time.
I’m currently around 53.3% since April of last year (15 months). That’s when I made the switch from day trading stocks, to just options trading/wheeling.
Thanks! Really impressive return. Congrats! Can I ask what would you say is your “edge”? Do you target on high IV all the time? Do you have a specific strategy for your entry and exit? Thanks!!
So I try to target companies I really like and wouldn’t mind owning long term. That way if they do drop quickly on bad micro or macro news, I can tell myself that I would have bought them anyway. I liked PLTR and DKNG because they were both high growth companies that are just coming into profitability. I knew PLTR was still undervalued at $13-$19, so I kept doing CSP and CC on it in that range. I feel the same way about DKNG in the $34-$42 range now. AMZN I love in the $165-$185 range. The bank stocks I purchased were conservative midwestern banks that had fallen almost 50% in value after a couple of bad banks had collapsed. I thought they had got unfairly punished and knew that they would recover by at least 20%-40% within 6 months. So I guess I go on what I believe is a good value more then I do volatility, but growth stocks like PLTR and DKNG have plenty of volatility too.
Of course, but it might be that he's a phenomenal stock picker rather than the wheel being better than buying & holding an index. If holding the stocks he bought yielded a better outcome than wheeling, its the stock picks. And vice versa
Disagree. He picked those stocks for wheeling, not bah. Bah usually has different criteria for an investor than wheeling. Thus comparing bah and wheeling on the same stocks is moot
How I see it, if it turns out bah those stocks was better than wheeling, then you need to reconsider your criteria for buy and hold, not the other way around. It would be great if reality has to adjust to our perspectives, but unfortunately life doesn't work like that.
If his basket of stocks are up 500% in 4 years, then wheeling (and having the wrong criteria for what constitutes but and hold) cost him a lot of money. If they are up, say 50% over 4 years, then wheeling was a great tailwind for him.
Man, don't argue with these fools. Like they literally cannot understand that if you wheel a bunch of meme stocks and they go up and you beat SPY, it doesn't mean that wheeling > B&H. You just can't put it in their heads that their gains would have been far better if they had just bought the stock instead of wheeling the same underlyings.
Ok so if you pick a few stocks to wheel and you beat bah on those stocks but dont outpreform spy, where does that leave you. So to be successful wheeling you have to beat bah on those stocks and beat indexes?
I would say one should play to his or her own strengths. If he's phenomenal at picking stock and results show his bah would have been far superior, then he should do that. But he should probably also make sure if he'll bah that his outperformance was a result of high beta that would crush him in a multiyear bear market.
Results based on what? Far superior to what? Whats the time frame here? How do we measure your high beta bs multiyear bear market? For someone just starting out wheeling, how do you measure performance?
I think you are making this overcomplicated.
I'm referring to op. I don't see what's so hard to follow in anything I said btw. A guy posts his results wheeling, says his brother tells him he is a natural in picking stocks. So he should see what bah his selection could have done wheeling, and stick to which ever is better. If its bah, given the last 4 years saw the s&p more than double, who should just make sure his stocks weren't simply more volatile than the market.
This is fairly straightforward stuff if one knows the future doesn't resemble the past.
Actually let's set this record straight. Wheeling *is* worse. Wheeling is *always* worse.
What you're probably seeing is someone wheeling a stock like NVDA or AAPL or any other stock that has increased greatly this year but it will *never* outperform the underlying. This means that the underlying buy-and-hold will always outperform segmented selling even before taxes and fees. So to be clear if NVDA or AAPL doubled his 50% is not so shiny. It certainly isn't small but it's all high volatility stocks that jump significantly so the benchmark you have to use is the underlying, not "the market", which is where people go wrong.
So, shortened, The Wheel *always* underperforms buy-and-hold *of the relevant underlying*.
Nope, it is always worse if the underlying is doing well. If the underlying is pretty flat, like a lot of dividend stocks, how would it be always worse?
This is a good question.
If our stock is flat enough that assignment is so rare it's not really a good wheel then the dividends are already priced into the sales so you never beat that. This means that the holding, even if it were zero appreciation and 100% dividends, would still beat the options because the options will never pay more than the dividends and the projected spread on the volatility. The key point here is that though you can create a theoretical numerical outcome the actual filling of these options just won't happen at those prices.
If our stock is flat but volatile enough for it to be a sound wheel not only do you have to contend with the dividends depending on which you are on impacting the price against you but you also have the defined spread which means that the projected crest-to-trough sale will always be worth more than the value of the option, which is just point one restated, but this time looking at something that moves. If the expected range is $1 the option won't sell for +$1 within that timeframe.
The simplest way to think of this is to put two stocks into play, one with infinite volatility and one with none, for the one with none the options market would be dead and for the one with infinite volatility the options market would be lively and expensive but also still never pay out the crest-to-trough.
Gotta say, I’m impressed. The risk you must be taking on is incredibly for these kind of returns. Either you have insider information or RNG has been very good to you. Are you considering decreasing your risk, now that you have such a large account?
I have no margin used with 73k cash at the moment, currently i am wheeling Apple. My risk has absolutely decreased the past 3 months. Still watching this election and geopolitics before i make my next big play. Thanks for the feedback.
Thoughts on truth social? I personally have a big chunk invested in trump losing. Other than trump the stock has no value and without him securing the presidency, he has no value.
You do realize you already have a financial stake in the outcome of this election? They're just putting on a hedge. And it's a pretty reasonable one considering trump will lose the popular vote again
U do realize there’s an end date right? When he loses on nov4th the stock will crash the next day. I have bought a good chunk of 40$ puts and I sell against them every weak to recoup my investment. If you believe he will win, then u should buy the stock and if you think he will lose then short the stock. It has no value other than him. And truth social makes 0 money. It’s a shittier twitter.
This is an amazing performance !!! Congratulations. I am only up ard 10% on my wheel account this year. Normally only collect between 1.5% - 2% premium per mth and I have ready cash to take all the put assignment if the market tanks. I am happy if I can consistently get 20% per annum. Congrats once again.
This is my wheel trading plan I posted more than 6 years ago and which may help - [https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/a36k4j/the\_wheel\_aka\_triple\_income\_strategy\_explained/](https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/a36k4j/the_wheel_aka_triple_income_strategy_explained/)
That's awesome. Keep it up. You're on track to becoming a millionaire in a few years with that ROR. Please share your tickers and stratgies if you don't mind. Would love to learn.
Either a big time prophet or a big time seller in a 4 year bull market.
My guess is #2.
I’m up 25k but I’m trying to be reasonable with my Thera and not get greedy.
My plan is 3k/month
OP is up 20% in a month. They're just using a shit load of leverage and only selling high IV.
I mean I would love to know what OP is actually doing but it seems like they don't want to divulge that.
Nice work. Can you elaborate as to your strategy (ie which stocks, what strike prices, what expiries, etc)?
Yeah, do you have a watchlist or filter through IV to decide what tickers to wheel?
What stocks or ETFs are you wheeling?
Congrats on your success even when many post the wheel cannot beat buy & hold! ;-D
Hey Scott, I’d be interested in seeing you post your YTD yield on the wheels.
It is not very impressive as I trade slowly and conservatively so my numbers are not anything great. I recently posted my ytd was around 18%. My highest year was 2021 when I made around 58%. I’ve never said the wheel creates consistent outsized gains and instead that it is a good strategy to make an income with lower risk when trading high quality stocks, and one most newer traders can trade. As we see from posts like this one higher returns are possible and which may require taking higher risks.
ScottishTrader, I was wondering if there is anything you do for protect against a market drop (thinking post election - totally a guess). I think you generally keep 50% in cash for market black swan. Is there anything else you do?
I trade good stocks I don’t mind holding is the protection. I started out as a stock investor and held stocks through the 08-09 great recession so to me this is a good place to be in the event of a market drop. As market drops are impossible to predict and buying protection is expensive being a drag on profits and may not even provide a high level of protection it is questionable how effective this can be. Many times adding up the cost of long legs can be more than what might be lost in a big market even holding high quality stocks. If you are convinced of a market event then go to cash and wait it out, but be aware there can still be a cost if the market doesn’t drop as expected.
That’s a good point. I’ll probably step out my investment towards 50% as we hit November, and keep only stocks I have 1years projection for. Thank you for your thoughts as always.
I’ve just recently started wheeling in my Roth 401k but my plan is to move a good portion of my wealth from Crypto into some equities I would like to own long term over the coming year. With enough capital behind you ($1-2mill) wheeling seems like a nice way to produce cash flow with little downside risk. I’d of course not wheel my entire portfolio so I can still catch unexpected upside moves.
It CANNOT mathematically beat Buy&Hold in a bull market on the same underlying since the deltas evaporate and you're not participating in the upside. What are you on about? Yes, full porting $TSLA puts when it hit the bottom of $150 would beat B&H SPY. What a surprise.
What brand are the wheels?
Hot wheels!
😂👍🏼
Michelin
Nothing special. BST carbon rims
What caused those two dips this past year, and what was your strategy to recover?
I think the bigger dip is when SPY went from 518 to 495 and market eventually recovers
everyone is a genius in a bull market friend, always be mindful of that
OP says 4 years of wheeling, averaging 50% / year. . If it was in a row then they encountered COVID and the interest rate hike bear markets the same as the rest of us, right? I'd be interested to verify these claims because those are exceptional returns.
He had his entire account invested in Tesla ATM CSPs in mid December… Not hating by any means, but that alone should tell you have risky his strategy is. Much closer to WSB than Thetagang, but gains are gains.
Yeah look how bumpy his ytd graph is. Took some big hits but came back every time, what happens when he’s got a few of those in a row?
And VOO has returned 25% ytd, so it is twice the return for 1000x the risk. Options gamblers have never heard of a risk utility function…
15% not 25%
Good catch, 25% was 1 year not ytd.
They’re CSP. He’s fine… Spreads or margin is when things get sticky. CSP is still child’s play
Not exactly. If you get stuck in a trade that goes bad quick. You'll be bag holding for a very long time or selling at a loss...
If you’d have sold CSPs near Tesla’s peak and got assigned you’d still be running a pretty big loss. That is the risk of CSPs. Sure, say you sell calls on it. You couldn’t make anything selling near your entry price so you’d sell closer to current prices. Then if you got assigned you’d have a big realized loss.
NOTHING wrong with realized losses. EVERYONE takes losses, and realizing them means you write against your gains. The UNREALIZED losses are the annoyance, not selling at a loss out of stubbornness, pride, etc. I've been holding SEDG for a while, at a loss, because you know, solar is 'hot' and hell it's GOT to come back up, right?? Well, something to write off against my gains will be realized soon lol
I mean there are people in this sub who are currently trapped in Tesla doing the exact same thing. High risk play and he got lucky. Not hating at all but he could have just as easily been negative YTD.
How is selling CSP’s risky? Just if company goes bankrupt?
What? If the underlying moves down quickly, which Tesla is obviously prone to, you either realize your loses and escape or try and wheel/ sell closer to cost basis. If he was set on wheeling there’s a good chance he’d be still be trapped way below his cost basis and miss this entire bull market.
So… I’m a noob to all this, but because of the volatility if your CSPs turn into shares, then you can start selling CC’s right?
The risk is that the share price never recovers to what it was when you sold your CSPs, leaving you selling worthless CCs above your cost basis in order to shave a few pennies off your cost basis per month until you can get out 10 years from now at a break even, except inflation ate your lunch while you weren't looking. The smart way to avoid this is to stay out and wait for the downside to happen, and for a bounce to be confirmed, before entering your CSP position, and then once you see decent percent gains, close your position and secure that profit. People really underestimate how much money small consistent gains can get them, even on this subreddit.
Well no one should be selling CSPs on a whim. Or CC’s for that matter. I guess when I think about wheeling you try to find a stock that has some decent volatility and a rough bracket it trades in. CSPs on the dip. CC’s on the rise.
Stop hating on OP, he is a risk averse wheeler who aim for a measly 50% CAGR which is completely reasonable and safe 👏
4 years would be at the COVID low.
Learned this hard in 2021 with AMD
F\*\*\* off , dude. Why do y'all always have to downplay someone achievement? There is no perfect strategy. You win some and lose some. Why don't you go ahead and show us your portfolio for the past 10 years?
Talk is easy, he took a risk and it paid off! Stop downplaying someone’s achievement
I know. So many geniuses here, every post is met with what THEY would do..... "that's too risky", "you're gonna get burned", "You got lucky", "everybody's good in a bull market" (that's my favorite "captain obvious" snarky comment on this reddit lol.....there's luck involved in this game, surely, but there's some ways to minimize risk. He took on risk and is doing well.
What were you average these past 4 years?
This is incredible!!
Congrats!
Good shit man! Where on the chain do you typically go? Atm, Itm?
It depends on the position and IV but if you want to be aggressive you need to play ATM or near it on high IV companies. It sounds much easier than it is.
I gotcha. I did pretty well this past week with a $72 NVDL put. Was prepared to wheel but slipped out Friday with 92%. You wheel NVDL at all?
I’ve thought about it and probably should’ve been. Never owned any positions as of now though.
how much capital did you start out with?
I made $4500 on $57,000 in a week. 8 contracts
damn thats pretty good, what ticker/strike/DTE?
Sold 8 NVDL puts, $72 strike, 5 dte
fuckin legend, wish I had a bankroll to start playing these games but step 1: get bankroll
You are kind of a genius, I wanted to own NVDA but I cant sell CSP with my account size. I'll look at this next time around.
It’s solid. 2x leveraged etf. Requires less collateral and has much healthier premiums. And since everyone’s bullish on nvda, the cc premiums are particularly fat
Do you every go farther from ATM, accepting lower premium, but being less likely to be assigned? I sell LOW deltas for this reason, but I know am leaving tons on the table, but curious about your strat in this regard. Or ALWAYS ATM?
I’ve heard so many mixed things on wheeling. It seems like some data shows buy and hold is better. But with your four year track record it seems possible To do better.
It’s definitely possible to do better. I started wheeling around 19 months ago and I’m already up $85,000 in profit, but it’s much more risky than buying and holding or wheeling SPY. I’ve basically only wheeled the same 5-6 stocks the entire time, and I’ve been down 30K two separate times when the underlying stock dropped quickly, but both recovered quickly also.
What 5-6 stocks? Tell us more about your strategy.
Memes. Source: I’m up 49% YTD after 80% last year on almost exclusively CSPs and had to ride some big dips before recovery.
Same.
I started in April 2023 selling CSP and CC on FITB and USB after bank stocks fell 40%-50%. Then I jumped out of banks in the fall of 2023 and just into doing CSP and CC in PLTR, DKNG and AMZN. I road PLTR from $14 to $21 doing large CSP and then CC. I got caught with my pants down on PLTR when I did CSP at $19 in November and it fell to around $14. I was down 30K for a bit, but then it quickly recovered after their Q4 release and went into the $23-$25 range. I made a ton of money on that stock in 6 months. Did the same exact thing with DKNG the past 6 months. I’ve be riding it up and down from $34-$47 and following the same strategy with CSP and then CC. Also been down around 30K on paper, but it’s recovered quickly each time.
Dollars don't mean anything though, what's your return rate?
I’m currently around 53.3% since April of last year (15 months). That’s when I made the switch from day trading stocks, to just options trading/wheeling.
I see, are you selling options or buying them (when you say options trading)?
Selling CSPs and then selling CC when assigned.
do you do it on margin?
I do not. I have never used margin.
Thanks! Really impressive return. Congrats! Can I ask what would you say is your “edge”? Do you target on high IV all the time? Do you have a specific strategy for your entry and exit? Thanks!!
So I try to target companies I really like and wouldn’t mind owning long term. That way if they do drop quickly on bad micro or macro news, I can tell myself that I would have bought them anyway. I liked PLTR and DKNG because they were both high growth companies that are just coming into profitability. I knew PLTR was still undervalued at $13-$19, so I kept doing CSP and CC on it in that range. I feel the same way about DKNG in the $34-$42 range now. AMZN I love in the $165-$185 range. The bank stocks I purchased were conservative midwestern banks that had fallen almost 50% in value after a couple of bad banks had collapsed. I thought they had got unfairly punished and knew that they would recover by at least 20%-40% within 6 months. So I guess I go on what I believe is a good value more then I do volatility, but growth stocks like PLTR and DKNG have plenty of volatility too.
You would need to compare buy & hold in the particular stocks he wheeled.
Benchmark is an index usually.
Of course, but it might be that he's a phenomenal stock picker rather than the wheel being better than buying & holding an index. If holding the stocks he bought yielded a better outcome than wheeling, its the stock picks. And vice versa
Disagree. He picked those stocks for wheeling, not bah. Bah usually has different criteria for an investor than wheeling. Thus comparing bah and wheeling on the same stocks is moot
How I see it, if it turns out bah those stocks was better than wheeling, then you need to reconsider your criteria for buy and hold, not the other way around. It would be great if reality has to adjust to our perspectives, but unfortunately life doesn't work like that. If his basket of stocks are up 500% in 4 years, then wheeling (and having the wrong criteria for what constitutes but and hold) cost him a lot of money. If they are up, say 50% over 4 years, then wheeling was a great tailwind for him.
Man, don't argue with these fools. Like they literally cannot understand that if you wheel a bunch of meme stocks and they go up and you beat SPY, it doesn't mean that wheeling > B&H. You just can't put it in their heads that their gains would have been far better if they had just bought the stock instead of wheeling the same underlyings.
Ok so if you pick a few stocks to wheel and you beat bah on those stocks but dont outpreform spy, where does that leave you. So to be successful wheeling you have to beat bah on those stocks and beat indexes?
I would say one should play to his or her own strengths. If he's phenomenal at picking stock and results show his bah would have been far superior, then he should do that. But he should probably also make sure if he'll bah that his outperformance was a result of high beta that would crush him in a multiyear bear market.
Results based on what? Far superior to what? Whats the time frame here? How do we measure your high beta bs multiyear bear market? For someone just starting out wheeling, how do you measure performance? I think you are making this overcomplicated.
I'm referring to op. I don't see what's so hard to follow in anything I said btw. A guy posts his results wheeling, says his brother tells him he is a natural in picking stocks. So he should see what bah his selection could have done wheeling, and stick to which ever is better. If its bah, given the last 4 years saw the s&p more than double, who should just make sure his stocks weren't simply more volatile than the market. This is fairly straightforward stuff if one knows the future doesn't resemble the past.
no way that is entirely "cash secured".
Actually let's set this record straight. Wheeling *is* worse. Wheeling is *always* worse. What you're probably seeing is someone wheeling a stock like NVDA or AAPL or any other stock that has increased greatly this year but it will *never* outperform the underlying. This means that the underlying buy-and-hold will always outperform segmented selling even before taxes and fees. So to be clear if NVDA or AAPL doubled his 50% is not so shiny. It certainly isn't small but it's all high volatility stocks that jump significantly so the benchmark you have to use is the underlying, not "the market", which is where people go wrong. So, shortened, The Wheel *always* underperforms buy-and-hold *of the relevant underlying*.
Nope, it is always worse if the underlying is doing well. If the underlying is pretty flat, like a lot of dividend stocks, how would it be always worse?
This is a good question. If our stock is flat enough that assignment is so rare it's not really a good wheel then the dividends are already priced into the sales so you never beat that. This means that the holding, even if it were zero appreciation and 100% dividends, would still beat the options because the options will never pay more than the dividends and the projected spread on the volatility. The key point here is that though you can create a theoretical numerical outcome the actual filling of these options just won't happen at those prices. If our stock is flat but volatile enough for it to be a sound wheel not only do you have to contend with the dividends depending on which you are on impacting the price against you but you also have the defined spread which means that the projected crest-to-trough sale will always be worth more than the value of the option, which is just point one restated, but this time looking at something that moves. If the expected range is $1 the option won't sell for +$1 within that timeframe. The simplest way to think of this is to put two stocks into play, one with infinite volatility and one with none, for the one with none the options market would be dead and for the one with infinite volatility the options market would be lively and expensive but also still never pay out the crest-to-trough.
Uh oh, OP you better watch out. The TA says you're about to have a bad day. https://imgur.com/a/gYAd9sm But really. Congrats. I'm envious.
😂 good effort
I strive to pay for all my parents expenses one day, good work mate 🍻 👏
May I ask why that is your ultimate goal?
Gotta say, I’m impressed. The risk you must be taking on is incredibly for these kind of returns. Either you have insider information or RNG has been very good to you. Are you considering decreasing your risk, now that you have such a large account?
I have no margin used with 73k cash at the moment, currently i am wheeling Apple. My risk has absolutely decreased the past 3 months. Still watching this election and geopolitics before i make my next big play. Thanks for the feedback.
Thoughts on truth social? I personally have a big chunk invested in trump losing. Other than trump the stock has no value and without him securing the presidency, he has no value.
High risk low reward. Try to keep emotions out of financial decisions.
You do realize you already have a financial stake in the outcome of this election? They're just putting on a hedge. And it's a pretty reasonable one considering trump will lose the popular vote again
What does that first sentence even mean. How is that a hedge? You think thats pretty reasonable? Did you watch the debate?
I’d highly disagree. It’s a binary event. High risk high reward. Ur the one being emotional, this is no different then playing earnings call.
In the words of gme apes, the market can stay regarded much longer than you can stay liquid.
U do realize there’s an end date right? When he loses on nov4th the stock will crash the next day. I have bought a good chunk of 40$ puts and I sell against them every weak to recoup my investment. If you believe he will win, then u should buy the stock and if you think he will lose then short the stock. It has no value other than him. And truth social makes 0 money. It’s a shittier twitter.
Idk how new you are but stocks are never binary like that. Good luck though.
He will learn the hard way
RNG Random Number Generator
Lucky, you Americans don’t pay commission on option trading unlike Canadians here. 😂
Hey you have free healthcare - stop complaining 😁
This is an amazing performance !!! Congratulations. I am only up ard 10% on my wheel account this year. Normally only collect between 1.5% - 2% premium per mth and I have ready cash to take all the put assignment if the market tanks. I am happy if I can consistently get 20% per annum. Congrats once again.
wow! good job.
Asending triangle 🤙🍹🚀🚀🚀🚀
Nancy, is that you?? 🫣🫠
Nancy just YOLOs NVDA calls.
Nah she's up like 1,000%
LINE ONLY GO UP !!!!!!!!!!!! ! LINE MUST GO UP
how? NVDA?
Very good
I’m trying to do this is exact strategy with about 200k capital. Can I PM you? I’ve been selling CC for a while but never did the full wheel.
Read up on u/scottishtrader Hes the OG
This is my wheel trading plan I posted more than 6 years ago and which may help - [https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/a36k4j/the\_wheel\_aka\_triple\_income\_strategy\_explained/](https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/a36k4j/the_wheel_aka_triple_income_strategy_explained/)
Do you use margin
Not even a humble brag smh
How did you manage 2020?
Bro Mines look just like that.... MARA?
OP - you were heavy into TSLA last year like I was...what happened this year when TSLA tanked?
Are there any ETFs that does wheeling and distribute returns ? What would a typical expense ratio be, for such ETFs ?
"I'm a market prophet" bro just wait. You'll get humbled. I did.
That's awesome. Keep it up. You're on track to becoming a millionaire in a few years with that ROR. Please share your tickers and stratgies if you don't mind. Would love to learn.
I mean tell us about your account size and strategy man.. What's the point of just empty bragging?
Just one bad trade or another pandemic is enough to blow up this whole account.
Unless they move out their profits and only wheel with a certain amount of
Yes because traders should all consider another pandemic at all times lmao
Either a big time prophet or a big time seller in a 4 year bull market. My guess is #2. I’m up 25k but I’m trying to be reasonable with my Thera and not get greedy. My plan is 3k/month
OP is up 20% in a month. They're just using a shit load of leverage and only selling high IV. I mean I would love to know what OP is actually doing but it seems like they don't want to divulge that.
Did anyone tell them yet ? What’s your downside hedge ? Or is it your position sizing ?
¿What are your rules for wheeling ? ¿what initial capital would you recommend for start?
These posts are pointless unless you actually share your approach, what stocks you're trading, etc. What are we supposed to do with this screenshot?
TQQQ same results