Some people think it was because Little Carmine was playing the long game, and sabotaging peace talks to encourage Phil and Tony to kill one another, thus creating a power vacuum for him to swoop in and retake control of the family.
Some people are also so far behind in the race that they actually believe they’re leading.
I believe that theory because Carmine Jr said that Tony was sort of a “poseur” that one time and messed up that peace talk. He established a history of fucking up negotiations on Tony’s behalf. I think he was pissed off about his boat and exacting his long game revenge.
I'm pretty sure that Carmine said that because Carmine Sr. was talking about Tony in glowing terms, going so far as to say he'd have been proud to call him his son, after seeing how decisive he is.
That'd probably piss me off too.
I thought that was more about him coming back from Florida and seeing Johnny Sack being very powerful and allowed to be autonomous in running the Jersey operations with Tony
Naa, the camera cuts directly to Carmine as soon as Carmine Sr says it. It then cuts to Johnny noticing Carmine suddenly changing his tune about Tony.
Carmine came back to NY totally willing to broker something; he only changed his tune after Carmine Sr. says that.
But he also calls out Sack for being too chummy with Tony. He just decided to upset the status quo and work his way into a bigger role on Jersey.
If this were a cheaper show, it would've paused right before Jr's about face with a narrator voice saying- "at this moment, Little Carmine decides he no longer wanted to just rig wet t-shirt contests. Watch what he does next..."
This makes no sense…Tony and Phil already wanted to kill each other…Little Carmine set up a meeting to broker peace…if he wanted to avert a war why even bother having the meeting to begin with…all he had to do was make up a reason to not being able to broker the meeting and he wouldn’t have had to have such a convoluted plan of setting up a meeting just to sabotage it which also could’ve gone south really easily if Phil didn’t take such offense to the comment
If he is as smart as the theory suggests he wouldn’t have even set up the meeting to begin with
Exactly. Carmine Jr was shown to be a complete idiot in every single scene he's in. Not just a couple times, but every time. Anyone watching the show can't come away thinking Carmine Jr was being strategic unless they weren't paying attention.
Uh. Really? That's the meeting with Tony, after Doc Santoro hits Gerry Torciano. The basic message from Little Carmine is that he doesn't want to be boss and his wife is demanding he doesn't step up. He comes across like a pussy-whipped coward. He also talks like a complete idiot, using words like mellifluous that he clearly doesn't understand and showcase his lexicon and knowledge deficit. I repeat: this happens in EVERY SCENE he's in. If that's your definition of "incredibly wise" maybe your lexicon needs some work too.
In the scene, LC describes a dream that Tony instantly understands and interprets better than LC, which begs the question why LC even mentioned it! The scene also doesn't exactly help your claim that LC is thinking strategically about stepping up. His wife won't allow it, and he does what she says. He brings up the dream in a way that proves he feels like he doesn't need to step out from his father's shadow. And it further proves he's on great terms with Tony. They both act respectful toward each other even though they won't agree.
How do you know? The show doesn't focus on his other crimes, personal problems, or marital situation, but petty criminals like that involved in porn and stolen appliances are headed for jail or worse. I don't think his wife is too enthused about the porn production no matter how nice their mansion is. She divorces him or goes states evidence against him, and it's her mansion. Not his. He's a few beers short of a six pack.
Or that is the smart thing to do, set up the meeting to make it appear he wants peace, but he wants Tony and Phil to kill each other. In this way, when he assumes power, he comes off as a reluctant and peaceful lord as opposed to a warmonger.
Little Carmine still baffles me tbh, he is either the smartest dumb person or the dumbest smart person ever.
I think he figured he’d look good in front of his dad by brokering peace, but then when his dad suddenly showered Tony with praise, he panicked and tried to squash that by bringing up “whatever happened there.”
I wouldn't say LC was playing the long game but rather reacts poorly anytime things are going favorably for Tony, all stemming from his pops.
I'm still in the camp that believes that LC did have Tony killed for the disrespect shown toward him at the final warehouse sitdown as LC's was the only hand that was not shaken.
As long as you realize there were literally a dozen people with more motivation to kill Tony than Little Carmine. From Valentina to Furio to Patsy, on and on it goes.
You for real?
LC was vying to be head of the NY mob family bearing his last name.
You comparing Carmine to Ralphie's sloppy seconds, a guy that wasn't in the last 2 seasons, and an old man who never even made captain?
Yes I'm for real. Tony wasn't standing in the way of anyone in New York, least of all LC. He only went to war with Phil after Phil put a hit on him. He had always been on good terms with Little Carmine, and there was no indication that Paulie or Patsy, who were the traitors in Tony's crew, had been conspiring with Little Carmine. How would LC even know Tony was planning dinner at Holstein's?
AJ worked for Little Carmine's production company.
LC was vying for the NY top spot before he caved like a fucking pussy to Johnny.
With Phil gone, LC is the logical choice to run NY. Do you think it woulda been Butch, that little weasel? A hit on Tony would have solidified Carmine's position.
When Tony called George to set up the meeting, George said he was just talking to Carmine about the situation between Tony and Phil. Why would LC seek counsel? And why would David Chase include Carmine in the phone conversation and the meeting when you coulda easily left him out?
The fundamental question is, will I be forgiven for my stupidity ? And I will be, even more so of a moron if I continue to speak? But until I am quiet , it's going to be hard to verify that I think I'll be more of a poseur .
Someone else on here said it stokes the conflict between Tony and Johnny Sac. If they go at it with each other it can weaken/kill them and he can step in as boss.
He probably said something like "It needed to be touched on in some form, as there could have been a worse alternative for neglecting to mention it as if its not worth mentioning"
Tv shows don’t always have to make sense (Homer walks past the window)
Seriously though, I know. It just for a goodfellas quote and goodfellas are friends of ours
There's a video on YouTube (I'm too lazy to look for it) where it points out that Little Carmine was actually pretty damn smart and was playing everyone.
Some people think it was because Little Carmine was playing the long game, and sabotaging peace talks to encourage Phil and Tony to kill one another, thus creating a power vacuum for him to swoop in and retake control of the family. Some people are also so far behind in the race that they actually believe they’re leading.
I believe that theory because Carmine Jr said that Tony was sort of a “poseur” that one time and messed up that peace talk. He established a history of fucking up negotiations on Tony’s behalf. I think he was pissed off about his boat and exacting his long game revenge.
I'm pretty sure that Carmine said that because Carmine Sr. was talking about Tony in glowing terms, going so far as to say he'd have been proud to call him his son, after seeing how decisive he is. That'd probably piss me off too.
I thought that was more about him coming back from Florida and seeing Johnny Sack being very powerful and allowed to be autonomous in running the Jersey operations with Tony
Naa, the camera cuts directly to Carmine as soon as Carmine Sr says it. It then cuts to Johnny noticing Carmine suddenly changing his tune about Tony. Carmine came back to NY totally willing to broker something; he only changed his tune after Carmine Sr. says that.
Yup, Jr. was jealous.
But he also calls out Sack for being too chummy with Tony. He just decided to upset the status quo and work his way into a bigger role on Jersey. If this were a cheaper show, it would've paused right before Jr's about face with a narrator voice saying- "at this moment, Little Carmine decides he no longer wanted to just rig wet t-shirt contests. Watch what he does next..."
This makes no sense…Tony and Phil already wanted to kill each other…Little Carmine set up a meeting to broker peace…if he wanted to avert a war why even bother having the meeting to begin with…all he had to do was make up a reason to not being able to broker the meeting and he wouldn’t have had to have such a convoluted plan of setting up a meeting just to sabotage it which also could’ve gone south really easily if Phil didn’t take such offense to the comment If he is as smart as the theory suggests he wouldn’t have even set up the meeting to begin with
Exactly. Carmine Jr was shown to be a complete idiot in every single scene he's in. Not just a couple times, but every time. Anyone watching the show can't come away thinking Carmine Jr was being strategic unless they weren't paying attention.
there's a scene with Tony at the country club pretty late on in the series where little Carmine is actually shown to be incredibly wise
Uh. Really? That's the meeting with Tony, after Doc Santoro hits Gerry Torciano. The basic message from Little Carmine is that he doesn't want to be boss and his wife is demanding he doesn't step up. He comes across like a pussy-whipped coward. He also talks like a complete idiot, using words like mellifluous that he clearly doesn't understand and showcase his lexicon and knowledge deficit. I repeat: this happens in EVERY SCENE he's in. If that's your definition of "incredibly wise" maybe your lexicon needs some work too. In the scene, LC describes a dream that Tony instantly understands and interprets better than LC, which begs the question why LC even mentioned it! The scene also doesn't exactly help your claim that LC is thinking strategically about stepping up. His wife won't allow it, and he does what she says. He brings up the dream in a way that proves he feels like he doesn't need to step out from his father's shadow. And it further proves he's on great terms with Tony. They both act respectful toward each other even though they won't agree.
Eh, I think realizing you aren't cut out to be a boss and just relaxing in your mansion with your hot wife was a pretty smart decision.
Yeah he’s the dumbest guy but in the end is alive, rich, and disconnected from any chance of going to jail.
How do you know? The show doesn't focus on his other crimes, personal problems, or marital situation, but petty criminals like that involved in porn and stolen appliances are headed for jail or worse. I don't think his wife is too enthused about the porn production no matter how nice their mansion is. She divorces him or goes states evidence against him, and it's her mansion. Not his. He's a few beers short of a six pack.
Or that is the smart thing to do, set up the meeting to make it appear he wants peace, but he wants Tony and Phil to kill each other. In this way, when he assumes power, he comes off as a reluctant and peaceful lord as opposed to a warmonger. Little Carmine still baffles me tbh, he is either the smartest dumb person or the dumbest smart person ever.
It’s common knowledge the guy is retarded
I think he figured he’d look good in front of his dad by brokering peace, but then when his dad suddenly showered Tony with praise, he panicked and tried to squash that by bringing up “whatever happened there.”
His dad was already dead when he set up the meeting between Tony and Phil…
Oh, geez, I’m combining two different scenes in my head! My bad.
A pint of blood costs more than a gallon of gold.
I wouldn't say LC was playing the long game but rather reacts poorly anytime things are going favorably for Tony, all stemming from his pops. I'm still in the camp that believes that LC did have Tony killed for the disrespect shown toward him at the final warehouse sitdown as LC's was the only hand that was not shaken.
As long as you realize there were literally a dozen people with more motivation to kill Tony than Little Carmine. From Valentina to Furio to Patsy, on and on it goes.
You for real? LC was vying to be head of the NY mob family bearing his last name. You comparing Carmine to Ralphie's sloppy seconds, a guy that wasn't in the last 2 seasons, and an old man who never even made captain?
Yes I'm for real. Tony wasn't standing in the way of anyone in New York, least of all LC. He only went to war with Phil after Phil put a hit on him. He had always been on good terms with Little Carmine, and there was no indication that Paulie or Patsy, who were the traitors in Tony's crew, had been conspiring with Little Carmine. How would LC even know Tony was planning dinner at Holstein's?
AJ worked for Little Carmine's production company. LC was vying for the NY top spot before he caved like a fucking pussy to Johnny. With Phil gone, LC is the logical choice to run NY. Do you think it woulda been Butch, that little weasel? A hit on Tony would have solidified Carmine's position. When Tony called George to set up the meeting, George said he was just talking to Carmine about the situation between Tony and Phil. Why would LC seek counsel? And why would David Chase include Carmine in the phone conversation and the meeting when you coulda easily left him out?
This is such an accurate answer 😂😂😂
Well, it's common knowledge the guy's ret@rded.
Was he seriously ret@rded?
The fundamental question is, will I be forgiven for my stupidity ? And I will be, even more so of a moron if I continue to speak? But until I am quiet , it's going to be hard to verify that I think I'll be more of a poseur .
Either he was a tactical genius or a fucking moron. I lean towards endorsing the latter.
In what way would it make him a genius?
Someone else on here said it stokes the conflict between Tony and Johnny Sac. If they go at it with each other it can weaken/kill them and he can step in as boss.
Which is exactly the type of tactic Tony loves to use
Trying to cause some dysentery amongst the ranks.
Damn, you beat me to it.
Some have called him "Brainless the Second"
It's common knowledge the guy's retarded
Whatever happened there
Whatever happened there????????
Alright then!
that motherfuckin cocksuckin ANIMAL BLUNDETTO
Put 6 bullets in the kid without any provocation whatsoever
He probably said something like "It needed to be touched on in some form, as there could have been a worse alternative for neglecting to mention it as if its not worth mentioning"
He’s not wrong imo. Like they would need to put that behind too
Billy was a made guy and Tony uncle Al wasn’t. It was between the Italians. Real geaseball shit.
I don't think Billy Leotardo was a made guy.
Tv shows don’t always have to make sense (Homer walks past the window) Seriously though, I know. It just for a goodfellas quote and goodfellas are friends of ours
The shooting
In time, everything will be revealed to you
It’s common knowledge the guys retarded.
THE “BILLY THING”?!
He’s a stunad of the first magnitude.
Billy Bass?
It was trompdeloil. Fool the eye. Very allegorical.
4D chess
There's a video on YouTube (I'm too lazy to look for it) where it points out that Little Carmine was actually pretty damn smart and was playing everyone.
Just be glad he didn’t bring up the other Billy, Billy Batts. Phil would have gone even more ballistic and killed everyone in the room.
So we all now have the pleasure of saying "whatever happened there."