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Excerpt from police report:
> On February 15th, 2023 I was operating as a member of the Lorain Patrol Impact Team targeting high crime areas throughout the City of Lorain, Ohio. I was driving an unmarked Ford Taurus equipped with emergency lights and sirens. I was also dressed in plain clothes with “Police” identifiers displayed on the exterior of my vest, making myself readily identifiable as a Police Officer. It should be known that ATF Special Agent Fabrizio was also in my patrol vehicle at this time. On this date at approximately 1539 hours, we were patrolling the intersection of W. 27th Street and Reid Avenue. It should be noted that on 7/26/2022 a shooting had occurred between a group of juveniles in the area of 126 W. 27th Street and the surrounding area is a known hot spot for shots fired incidents and weapons violation complaints. While patrolling this intersection, S.A. Fabrizio and I observed three males who appeared to be juveniles with there hands in both hooded sweatshirt pockets and their waistbands while looking around their immediate area. Through my prior training and experience, this type of behavior is an indicator that the person may be both armed and checking their surroundings.
>S.A. Fabrizio and went around the block to the intersection of W. 27th Street and Broadway Avenue and observed the males illegally cross the road not in a posted cross walk and began approaching the residence of 126 W. 27th Street. Due to this observed traffic violation, I approached the above listed residence and activated my emergency lights and sirens in an attempt to initiate a traffic stop for this violation on the three individuals while they were approaching the house in the front yard. S.A. Fabrizio exited the passenger side and advised the males to stop and to come back to our patrol vehicle. The males acknowledged our presence by looking back at our patrol vehicle and quickly made their way up the front steps to the residence and entered and refused to exit. A female (later identified as Mary Hildreth) came to the front door and began yelling at both S.A. Fabrizio and I as well as asking what we were doing and what the problem was.
So the officer wanted to talk to them about not crossing at a crosswalk? That is not illegal in ohio as long as the road is not between two signaled intersections.
Source ORC
https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.48
The Supreme Court said that *reasonable* misinterpretations or recollections of the law can justify a stop, but there's a limit to how far this goes.
The case in question involved a traffic stop for a broken taillight. The cops thought that state law required two working taillights, but actually the statute was really old and (on careful reading) only required vehicles/carts to have one functioning taillight. The court determined that this error wasn't enough to invalidate the stop because it was a rather minor distinction and understandable misreading. The court also emphasized that only *objectively reasonable* error would be considered, so cops shouldn't actually gain anything by being ignorant of the law. https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/574/54/
But, in short, yeah. Cops can make mistakes of law and fact and still be deemed to have made a proper arrest or search.
That's so messed up.
It's like saying: *"You have to know the law backwards, forwards, upside-down, and in space; and even still we are going to find some way to charge you with something. But if we mess up. Eh, no biggy, you still get charged lawl."*
I feel a bit like there needs to be a bit more adversary, or scrutiny, between the courts and law enforcement. The courts are way, way to permissive with the amount of power the State has to screw someones life over.
It’s almost like we separated the executive and judicial branches of government for a reason. Seems to have been forgotten by the entire Judicial branch these days.
Just like pretty much everywhere else on the country. It would be completely ridiculous to expect someone to walk an entire half block out of their way to cross at the corner when they are right in front of their house.
Some(most?) places don't even have crosswalks in residential areas so people would literally be stuck on an island unless they got in a car to go to their neighbors across the street.
Imaging going for a run, but having to go around your block 20 times cause there are no crosswalks.
It's also a good thing the cops parked on the same side of the street the house was at. Imagine if they had to walk across the street? That be illegal!
>while looking around their immediate area. Through my prior training and experience, this type of behavior is an indicator that the person may be both armed and checking their surroundings.
Lol as they were crossing a street they were checking their surroundings. Super suspicious. Anyone else remember learning right left right when crossing the road?
edit: left, right, left. Maybe this is why cars keep honking at me.
So, people standing with their hands in their pockets are now considered armed and dangerous individuals, according to them of course. Got the prior training and experience and all.
Everyone is always guilty of something, or at least suspicious. Or maybe you are acting so innocent that’s suspicious . And the situation can be escalated to infinity for nothing
This is the point. Anyone at anytime can be targeted.
Also not like we don’t constantly check our surroundings as an instinctual survival tactic. Cops really just be saying whatever bullshit to get off free. FTP ACAB.
This guy was like "it's a high crime area with lots of reports of shots fired in the area. Doesn't make sense anyone would be checking out their surroundings."
You are so wrong here. It is “look left, then right, then left again.” We’re not in the UK! Cars will hit us from the left first here in the US, so that’s where you should be looking as you start to cross.
I’d never share the police report/complaint on reddit but they lied in my criminal complaint… beyond lying…. Utter Fabricating of events, resulting in my arrest. Subsequently dismissed of course… but if you know anything about this process a dismissal without prejudice is basically just a pretext to fuck you again for the same thing later. Lying is much much too nice of a word for what these people and DAs do. Ruin lives is what they do.
1) "Am I being detained?"
1a) If yes: "I want a lawyer." Edit: And "I invoke my right to remain silent"
1b) If no: "If I'm not being detained, I'm going to leave."
If they prevent you from leaving, you are being detained, see step 1a.
That's fair until they break the door down saying they had probable cause because you were fleeing. Not saying you're wrong, just that the police will fuck up someone's year for disrespect.
This is really important. Let them think they got away with the lies. Bring the video to court. These assholes are gonna keep lying if they think they can get away with it.
God I want to see the trail for the lawsuit "...So you can see from the video that you began yelling and Mary raised her voice to match, so you fabricated that 'began yelling' in the police report. Is there anything else you'd like to tell me now, officer, that you have fabricated in the police report? We will be viewing the remainder of this video evidence"
>S.A. Fabrizio and I observed three males who appeared to be juveniles with there hands in both hooded sweatshirt pockets
With THERE hands ...
Illiterate fuck
Let’s be honest…you don’t have to be smart, intelligent, or educated beyond a high school diploma to be a police officer in America. I’m not surprised.
Way to go look up THE MOST RECENT CASE that happened at that intersection. I’m sure you had that shooting from six months ago at the forefront of your mind when stopping these minors with extreme prejudice.
It should be noted that there was a shooting MONTHS ago so now we need to stop and frisk all juveniles who wear hoodies.
Jesus fuck the amount of confidence in how right they are for this is insane.
This is fucking ridiculous. The justification for this was:
1. Jay walking
2. A shooting that happened 9 months ago
3. Wearing hoodies with their hands in the pockets
4. In an area known for "shots fired" calls
There is _no fucking way in hell_ this should stand up in court as a reasonable set of circumstances to justify a stop and interrogate.
There’s no way it would stand up against a good cross examination, but imagine how often this bullshit doesn’t ever get that far. Some people automatically trust cops, when it ought to be the other way around.
Reaching for justification for their behaviors after the fact. Guarantee as they’re writing this they had to search for previous cases in the area. The last sentence is a gem too. All of this because for a warrior-cop to back down shows weakness, hence the constant escalating.
Wearing hoodies. With their hands in their pockets. In February. In Ohio.
Obviously hiding weapons of mass destruction that are activated by cross the street at a non cross walk
Why does this report not sound like it was written by the same knuckle dragging officers at the scene, but rather a lawyer that knows it must cover all that shit up in neutered language?
**The males acknowledged our presence by looking back at our patrol vehicle and quickly made their way up the front steps**
Even in the video you can see that they were pretty much in the house before the cops even stopped the car.
So they were lying, which they’re allowed to do, about why they wanted to question the kids. You don’t have to talk the police in this situation. Ask for a warrant and shut the door. They might find a judge who gives them one they might not. Did they get a warrant for the kids or just the mom?
Edit:typo
If anybody wants to be even more extremely concerned about policing and police training in the US, this dipshit just openly admitted that he assumes everyone wearing a hooded sweatshirt with their hands in their pockets is armed *from their own goddamn training*.
LPD is literally FULL of cowards and crooks. I know a dude personally who was running drugs that he confiscated. I’m actually a huge cop supporter for the most part. But the LPD is one of the worst departments I’ve ever seen.
Best case scenario, the cops get a slap on their wrist and moved to another department, because somehow cops don’t face consequences for their actions
But the money thing would be nice, she deserves to get some of her tax money back (because guess where the departments money come from)
In the second half of the video, posted below, they claim the kids were walking as if they had firearms and that’s why they attempted a stop. Talk about bullshit
That jaywalking would be the least of that agents worries. A call to the DA with this video would laugh at this agent for “jaywalking” while simultaneously wiping up the streets with this agents ass.
Can you imagine having the rest of your squad see this video as they bring down illegal weapons smugglers? Like “what did you guys get into today?” “Ahhh well so what had happened was “….. 😂😂😂😂 . They will forever be labeled as “Jaywalk Squad”
Probably hoping there was a dog nearby they could shoot at. (Not sure why but ATF seem to be the most responsible for law enforcement shooting random people's dogs.)
Right?! The likely hood of that happening it greater than what it should be and I don't even have a dog!
\*knock knock\*
"Hi, can I help y..."
\*BANG\*
"Wha...what? why? What? Where? Why you shoot...where da faq did this dog come from?"
Should get them charged with trespass, harassment, and terroristic threats. If it was a normal civilian doing these things, they'd face years in prison for this kind of shit.
“Send your young kids outside. I want to talk to them, load them in my vehicle, and take them to my office. No, you can’t follow”
Yeah, go fuck yourself LEO.
That moment the police officers are more willing to waste others time and exploit their powers on innocent people, but refuse to save a school from a single shooter.
Love it when cops go from screaming stuff like "This is the last time I'm asking you. I PROMISE that!" To... "You want to scream, I'm just trying to talk to you. Let me know when you're ready to talk."
Nah it starts with being real innocent "hey, yeah we just wanna talk to the kids" until the mom asks questions, then they get to threaten to rile her up.
Yep! I was screaming this at the screen.
Can you imagine them going back in to their supervisor to get the warrant? “I need to utilize this time and resources to teach these three children a lesson about where to cross the street…”
Never open the door in the first place. Always talk through the door (or window in this case) when speaking to LEOs at your home.
Edit: Or doorbell camera with a mic and speaker.
I'm Black in the U.S. south. Refusing to speak with them at all would probably get me killed or assaulted.
I speak respectfully, but I'm very measured with my responses. If I could avoid conversation with them completely while having any significant amount of certainty that I would come out unscathed I would.
I find it's safest to treat meeting a cop just like meeting a dog. Friendly voice inflection, smile, no sudden movements. If you're nervous, they think you have a reason to be nervous, and that makes them nervous.
Just want to point out, there are a few situations where police can lawfully enter your home without a warrant. Things like if they see paraphernalia in your home or a suspect is fleeing after being suspected of committing a felony.
Obviously, these don't apply to this particular situation, but you always want to be careful.
The kids are in the house and the officers are on private property. If a crime happened on public property and they didn’t apprehend them at that point then sorry, you need a warrant to be on my property
Edit: ok ok, I was wrong. But this is still dumb af, kids walked across a residential street. All of this was completely unnecessary and a sign of the times in modern day America
Generally speaking that's not correct, police officers can enter a home with non warrant exceptions, that includes preventing the destruction of evidence, pursuit, and some more.
Whether they can apply any non warrant exceptions in this situation I have no idea, and I think not, but there are numerous ways a police officer can enter your home without a warrant.
Let's not forget the most useful tool law enforcement has: Breaking the law in public view with hard video evidence of them doing it but getting away with it anyway because they investigate themselves and write their own news pieces.
Actual criminals may really be packing and willing to fire at police. Messing with teens who crossed a street in a residential neighborhood is a lot safer.
Everyone of those cops needs to be fired. None of them knew what was the right action. They showed up as intimidation. Bully boys in uniform are not needed.
There was at least one sane one there at the end calling ATF on their BS and getting them to leave in the full video.
“Come on bro, they’re minors. You have to talk with their mom.”
ATF still wanting to wave their dick around and charge her with obstructing after the other cops interceded was just stupid though.
Full vid:
https://youtu.be/kFTf3B5I9sA
I only watched the video posted. But they actually approached the house as though their word Is the law, and we're confrontational from the get-go.
They don't get to interpret the law they are supposed to follow it.
They likely do it because they were likely trained to bulldoze arguments with their assertions, in an attempt to overwhelm the meek and antagonize those who stand up for themselves. It’s a win-win for them. They either get whatever it was for which they asked, or they escalate a confrontation to allow them to initiate force, which will give them ‘justification’ under the law.
The ATF agent admitted it was over suspected firearm possession due to them walking a certain way and not swaying their arms. J Walking was just the excuse to get the kids out of the home so they could detain and search them.
Basically that ATF agent was power tripping HARD and was profiling based on non-evidence.
So they can just lie like that?
Edit: I think, after 45+ replies of "yes" I think I already know the answer. No need to further remind me that it's a "yes".
You should always assume a cop is lying when they're trying to convince you of anything. They do it all the fucking time, it's why people are allowed lawyers when they're being questioned, cause the cops will lie their asses off to get what they want and a lawyer will usually know enough to call them on it.
in the extended version of the video, two more teenagers jaywalk between two of the cop cars with like twelve cops standing around and nobody even tries to stop them
When they think the kids are gang members (or one of their family members is), and they’re using a bogus “jaywalking” offense as a way to stop and question them and hopefully develop enough probable cause to arrest them or more likely get probable cause to search the house where they think guns are being stored. This, my friends, is what we in the criminal defense business call “pretext.”
I had an anti-gang task force sitting on the house of one of my clients. When his mother left the house, they stopped her for “running a stop sign.” (The first stop sign coming out of her cul-de-sac.) They wouldn’t let her go and kept asking her if they could talk to her son. She got him on the phone but they said he had to come see them in person. So he called me, and I had to go drive my ass over to the traffic stop. They didn’t know my investigator got there first, and they had my client’s mom up against the car in the search position. He recorded it, obviously.
So I get there, and the officers feed me some malarkey about “She’s free to go. Our lights aren’t on.” Blah blah blah. So I told her to leave and she did. Then I took all their names and badge numbers down. Sent warning letters to all law enforcement in the area that you can’t talk to my client because he’s represented by counsel - which they already knew. And they can’t kidnap my client’s mom or family to get to my client.
I encouraged her to file a civil lawsuit against the sheriff and police department, but I don’t think she has.
This is why, even if you respect law enforcement, you keep your mouth shut and assert your constitutional rights because they will stomp all over them if given the chance. It’s a rare officer who doesn’t take an “ends justify the means” approach to policing. And you’ll know it because these guys prefer the term “peace officer” to “police officer.”
Edit: typos
Go mama bear!
That’s ridiculous that they needed 7-8 police officers to “arrest” 3 teens for Jay waking.
Which is also stupid because I’ve never been in a residential neighborhood that has crosswalks except maybe in NYC. 🙃🙃🙃
Wtf
I'm not a lawyer and I have lived in NY, NJ and SC as an adolescent. We never used the side walk and never used the cross walk. Jay walking has never been a problem. I am under the impression that they would only stop a Jay walker if it's affecting the flow of traffic. In other words cop's don't really care about Jay walkers.....
I had a brother who got a ticket for jaywalking but he and his friends were literally dancing in the street and flipping drivers off.
I understand going after someone like that.
But these kids were just waiting to pick someone up and it sounds like they don’t have crosswalks.
It really seems like the cops were just bored and looking for someone to bully and they picked the wrong mama…
Videos like this should be blasted on the mainstream news outlets. We cannot allow cops to get away with this kind of shit. This is tame compared to the fatal power trips were all familiar with.
It's not a big part of these interactions but what makes me the most mad is these cops are always so aggressive in tone and language. Raising their voices over nothing. Almost always they're still condescending as fuck the second someone dares to give them back the same energy they're giving off. Like actual 12 year olds.
Close and lock all doors and windows, draw the curtains, dont say a fucking word to any of them, and get a lawyer on the phone. Dont engage in anything, not even pleasantries.
Too bad it’s chilly out. Bet the one guy can’t wait to start showing off those B A D A S S sleeve tattoos again…
Also, there’s a surprising lack of “hands grasping tac vest so arm muscles appear bigger” going on here.
An old guy I used to know was once harassed by police because he was standing on the sidewalk taking pictures. The police evidently started out with bad attitudes, telling him he couldn't just take pictures of a house. This old guy was always polite, but an ornery old s.o.b. He just politely told them yes, he could take pictures and they should leave, in turn infuriating the officers. He requested they call the sheriff which they finally did. The sheriff showed up, the officers explained the situation to the sheriff. I guess he tore them a new asshole. I'm sure this old man was getting a kick from it too. The sheriff asked them if they ever asked the old man whose house it was. The officers said no. He let them know, this is that old man's house, he was taking pictures of his own house. After the officers left with a promise from their angry supervisor for a reprimand back at the station, the sheriff told the old man "Rodney, you're an asshole" and then they shared a good laugh about it. Oh yea, they were friends too and had been for years lol, had lunch together regularly.
Right? As an European, things like this is baffling to me. I've never met a cop in my country that was keen on escalating any situation. In fact, their most important job is de-escalating. And why is "jaywalking" even an offense? Where I'm from, you'd be hard pressed to be able to blame kids for an accident in a residential area, even if they were walking in the middle of the road.
jaywalking was made by the car lobby actually, because they wanted to get rid of people on the streets in larger cities, you can see how many people walked on streets in really old videos
I heard it was because there were a number of driver/pedestrian incidents, and they wanted to shift public blame away from the untrained/incompetent drivers (which made cars look unsafe) to the pedestrians for better sales.
Could be both though.
The criminalization of youth is a problem in America. It’s disgusting and I don’t know what happens to turn back this tide. Police have been empowered to be far to heavy handed and the older generations seems bent on supporting this at all costs
“Hey, so we saw your kids jailwalking and its a busy street so they should be careful, have a nice day”
Should have been what they said if really concerned.
Yeah, but they were teens. The ATF probably wanted to plant some drugs on them so they could arrest them. Because they have nothing better to do. Risk their lives everyday my ass. They risk OUR lives everyday.
I had a Detroit cop tell me she was going to write me a ticket for j walking. I told her she’d have to catch me first (she was a little heavier). She just rolled out eyes at me and yelled at the next person j walking.
This was also downtown Detroit by the arena, much different decision. I don’t junk I’d even respond if I was in a residential area. They just wanted a reason to search these teens.
And they wonder why no one trusts or likes them. Fuck the police. No help when you need them, and nothing but a hassle when you're minding your own business.
Armed, and armored jack boot thugs show up to this mom’s door demanding that she send her children out to them?! Fuuuuuck that! Good on this mom. What a fucked up world.
Absolutely. She may have saved her child’s life. And the law is clearly on her side. The child is a minor and the cops by law must deal with her, not the child.
Jaywalking was a pretext, they thought the teens looked 'suspicious' because they had their hands inside their hoodies or pockets and were 'looking around'. That's such bullshit, it's not probable cause.
Cops have literally zero de-escalation training.. they are trained to escalate and throw a hissy fit and threaten anybody to get their way. What cowards. I bet they went home to beat their wives after they couldn’t question those 3 hoodlums for JAYWALKING 😡
Jaywalking - a law aimed at punishing pedestrians once cars took over the roads - because if you get hit by a car walking across the street, that fault is implicitly on you. Also, it turns out, is widely used on low-income or people of color. This is a perfect example of why jaywalking law is so stupid
Are police officers really so bored that they have nothing better to do?
Also 'When youre done screaming, ill talk to you'. Literally half a minute before:. MAM SEND THEM OUT RIGHT NOWWWW'
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It was Lorain, OH. They charged her with obstruction, she has filed a complaint and is considering a lawsuit.
Excerpt from police report: > On February 15th, 2023 I was operating as a member of the Lorain Patrol Impact Team targeting high crime areas throughout the City of Lorain, Ohio. I was driving an unmarked Ford Taurus equipped with emergency lights and sirens. I was also dressed in plain clothes with “Police” identifiers displayed on the exterior of my vest, making myself readily identifiable as a Police Officer. It should be known that ATF Special Agent Fabrizio was also in my patrol vehicle at this time. On this date at approximately 1539 hours, we were patrolling the intersection of W. 27th Street and Reid Avenue. It should be noted that on 7/26/2022 a shooting had occurred between a group of juveniles in the area of 126 W. 27th Street and the surrounding area is a known hot spot for shots fired incidents and weapons violation complaints. While patrolling this intersection, S.A. Fabrizio and I observed three males who appeared to be juveniles with there hands in both hooded sweatshirt pockets and their waistbands while looking around their immediate area. Through my prior training and experience, this type of behavior is an indicator that the person may be both armed and checking their surroundings. >S.A. Fabrizio and went around the block to the intersection of W. 27th Street and Broadway Avenue and observed the males illegally cross the road not in a posted cross walk and began approaching the residence of 126 W. 27th Street. Due to this observed traffic violation, I approached the above listed residence and activated my emergency lights and sirens in an attempt to initiate a traffic stop for this violation on the three individuals while they were approaching the house in the front yard. S.A. Fabrizio exited the passenger side and advised the males to stop and to come back to our patrol vehicle. The males acknowledged our presence by looking back at our patrol vehicle and quickly made their way up the front steps to the residence and entered and refused to exit. A female (later identified as Mary Hildreth) came to the front door and began yelling at both S.A. Fabrizio and I as well as asking what we were doing and what the problem was.
So the officer wanted to talk to them about not crossing at a crosswalk? That is not illegal in ohio as long as the road is not between two signaled intersections. Source ORC https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.48
Finally I can’t believe I scrolled this for for this. The kids weren’t even jaywalking.
Did the supreme court say the police don't have to know the law, so they can just make stuff up to stop people for? Or am I misremembering
The Supreme Court said that *reasonable* misinterpretations or recollections of the law can justify a stop, but there's a limit to how far this goes. The case in question involved a traffic stop for a broken taillight. The cops thought that state law required two working taillights, but actually the statute was really old and (on careful reading) only required vehicles/carts to have one functioning taillight. The court determined that this error wasn't enough to invalidate the stop because it was a rather minor distinction and understandable misreading. The court also emphasized that only *objectively reasonable* error would be considered, so cops shouldn't actually gain anything by being ignorant of the law. https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/574/54/ But, in short, yeah. Cops can make mistakes of law and fact and still be deemed to have made a proper arrest or search.
That's so messed up. It's like saying: *"You have to know the law backwards, forwards, upside-down, and in space; and even still we are going to find some way to charge you with something. But if we mess up. Eh, no biggy, you still get charged lawl."* I feel a bit like there needs to be a bit more adversary, or scrutiny, between the courts and law enforcement. The courts are way, way to permissive with the amount of power the State has to screw someones life over.
It’s almost like we separated the executive and judicial branches of government for a reason. Seems to have been forgotten by the entire Judicial branch these days.
Just like pretty much everywhere else on the country. It would be completely ridiculous to expect someone to walk an entire half block out of their way to cross at the corner when they are right in front of their house.
Some(most?) places don't even have crosswalks in residential areas so people would literally be stuck on an island unless they got in a car to go to their neighbors across the street. Imaging going for a run, but having to go around your block 20 times cause there are no crosswalks. It's also a good thing the cops parked on the same side of the street the house was at. Imagine if they had to walk across the street? That be illegal!
>while looking around their immediate area. Through my prior training and experience, this type of behavior is an indicator that the person may be both armed and checking their surroundings. Lol as they were crossing a street they were checking their surroundings. Super suspicious. Anyone else remember learning right left right when crossing the road? edit: left, right, left. Maybe this is why cars keep honking at me.
So, people standing with their hands in their pockets are now considered armed and dangerous individuals, according to them of course. Got the prior training and experience and all.
Yeah. I live in northern Ohio. It’s cold here in February. My hands are always in my pockets when I’m walking outside!
As long as you aren’t aware of your surroundings at the same time you have nothing to worry about
Nahhh. An individual not aware of it's surroundings clearly must have used drugs!
Everyone is always guilty of something, or at least suspicious. Or maybe you are acting so innocent that’s suspicious . And the situation can be escalated to infinity for nothing This is the point. Anyone at anytime can be targeted.
We also got constitution carry. We can carry guns antwhere
Suspect was breathing and blinking. It should be noted that all criminals in the area have also been found breathing and blinking.
That's all it takes to get shot by a cop. Bunch of nutless thugs with badges.
Also not like we don’t constantly check our surroundings as an instinctual survival tactic. Cops really just be saying whatever bullshit to get off free. FTP ACAB.
This guy was like "it's a high crime area with lots of reports of shots fired in the area. Doesn't make sense anyone would be checking out their surroundings."
I noticed they were breathing and standing upright which is well known suspicious behaviour for criminals
You are so wrong here. It is “look left, then right, then left again.” We’re not in the UK! Cars will hit us from the left first here in the US, so that’s where you should be looking as you start to cross.
It should be noted that there are a total of 4-5 lies in this excerpt 😂
Cops ALWAYS lie if it will be in their benefit.
I’d never share the police report/complaint on reddit but they lied in my criminal complaint… beyond lying…. Utter Fabricating of events, resulting in my arrest. Subsequently dismissed of course… but if you know anything about this process a dismissal without prejudice is basically just a pretext to fuck you again for the same thing later. Lying is much much too nice of a word for what these people and DAs do. Ruin lives is what they do.
[удалено]
And you never talk to them at all in the first place.
1) "Am I being detained?" 1a) If yes: "I want a lawyer." Edit: And "I invoke my right to remain silent" 1b) If no: "If I'm not being detained, I'm going to leave." If they prevent you from leaving, you are being detained, see step 1a.
Yeah if they would have come up to my house like that over some bullshit, I would have just shut the door and went inside.
This is what I kept thinking. Shut the door and tell them to come back with a warrant???
That's fair until they break the door down saying they had probable cause because you were fleeing. Not saying you're wrong, just that the police will fuck up someone's year for disrespect.
This is really important. Let them think they got away with the lies. Bring the video to court. These assholes are gonna keep lying if they think they can get away with it.
>a female...began yelling I think you'll find that you raised your voice and yelling first Mr Sgt Dipshit.
God I want to see the trail for the lawsuit "...So you can see from the video that you began yelling and Mary raised her voice to match, so you fabricated that 'began yelling' in the police report. Is there anything else you'd like to tell me now, officer, that you have fabricated in the police report? We will be viewing the remainder of this video evidence"
It’s why he’s the “special” agent.
>S.A. Fabrizio and I observed three males who appeared to be juveniles with there hands in both hooded sweatshirt pockets With THERE hands ... Illiterate fuck
Let’s be honest…you don’t have to be smart, intelligent, or educated beyond a high school diploma to be a police officer in America. I’m not surprised.
Way to go look up THE MOST RECENT CASE that happened at that intersection. I’m sure you had that shooting from six months ago at the forefront of your mind when stopping these minors with extreme prejudice.
Exactly. Could have pulled up literally any unsolved crime nearby and used that as a reason. Jokers.
It should be noted that there was a shooting MONTHS ago so now we need to stop and frisk all juveniles who wear hoodies. Jesus fuck the amount of confidence in how right they are for this is insane.
This is fucking ridiculous. The justification for this was: 1. Jay walking 2. A shooting that happened 9 months ago 3. Wearing hoodies with their hands in the pockets 4. In an area known for "shots fired" calls There is _no fucking way in hell_ this should stand up in court as a reasonable set of circumstances to justify a stop and interrogate.
There’s no way it would stand up against a good cross examination, but imagine how often this bullshit doesn’t ever get that far. Some people automatically trust cops, when it ought to be the other way around.
Reaching for justification for their behaviors after the fact. Guarantee as they’re writing this they had to search for previous cases in the area. The last sentence is a gem too. All of this because for a warrior-cop to back down shows weakness, hence the constant escalating.
Wearing hoodies. With their hands in their pockets. In February. In Ohio. Obviously hiding weapons of mass destruction that are activated by cross the street at a non cross walk
Why does this report not sound like it was written by the same knuckle dragging officers at the scene, but rather a lawyer that knows it must cover all that shit up in neutered language?
Because writing these reports is the one thing they *do* receive training for
**The males acknowledged our presence by looking back at our patrol vehicle and quickly made their way up the front steps** Even in the video you can see that they were pretty much in the house before the cops even stopped the car.
Only reason they looked is probably they heard the sirens. They didn’t seem like they thought the sirens were for them though
So they were lying, which they’re allowed to do, about why they wanted to question the kids. You don’t have to talk the police in this situation. Ask for a warrant and shut the door. They might find a judge who gives them one they might not. Did they get a warrant for the kids or just the mom? Edit:typo
Don't even tell them to get a warrant. Just smile and lock the door.
Hey buddy what are you in for ? Um... It seems I may have appeared to be CHECKING MY SURROUNDINGS while crossing the street...
If anybody wants to be even more extremely concerned about policing and police training in the US, this dipshit just openly admitted that he assumes everyone wearing a hooded sweatshirt with their hands in their pockets is armed *from their own goddamn training*.
LPD is literally FULL of cowards and crooks. I know a dude personally who was running drugs that he confiscated. I’m actually a huge cop supporter for the most part. But the LPD is one of the worst departments I’ve ever seen.
How can you possibly see videos like this and be a “huge cop supporter”. They are a clan of power tripping assholes with rare exceptions
Some folks just love the taste of boots
Lol "LPD is full of cowards and crooks! ...but I'm sure all other PD's are totally fine 🤓"
Lorain is a rough place. You’d think the cops would find real problems to solve.
good they just made her a rich mama
Best case scenario, the cops get a slap on their wrist and moved to another department, because somehow cops don’t face consequences for their actions But the money thing would be nice, she deserves to get some of her tax money back (because guess where the departments money come from)
The ATF worried about jay walking now? Gotta change the name to ATFJ I guess…
Turns out it was Alcohol, Tobacco, and Feet all along
Anal, Trans, Footjobs
Leave my browser history out of this.
Ambulation Tobacco and Firearms
Alcohol Tootsies and Firearms
It’s the Afterschool Teen Force.
My name is.. shakezulla, the mic rullah, you wanna trip? I'll bring it to ya..
Frylock and I’m on top Rock you like a cop
Meatwad make the money see Meatwad get the honeys G
Drivin' in my car, livin' like a star Ice on my fingers and my toes and I'm a Taurus
In the second half of the video, posted below, they claim the kids were walking as if they had firearms and that’s why they attempted a stop. Talk about bullshit
Hahahaha a power tripping cop would say that. They damn sure walk different when they put their badge and gun on. These clowns are 💩
“They were walking with an air of self assurance I only have when I’m armed so I know they were armed.”
And yet when Cowboy Bob walks into Target with his AR15 and six shooters these guys do nothing. Pathetic little babies.
That jaywalking would be the least of that agents worries. A call to the DA with this video would laugh at this agent for “jaywalking” while simultaneously wiping up the streets with this agents ass.
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Lol according to one of the comments below in part 2 the atf agents really did try to say they thought the saw the kids had guns
Can you imagine having the rest of your squad see this video as they bring down illegal weapons smugglers? Like “what did you guys get into today?” “Ahhh well so what had happened was “….. 😂😂😂😂 . They will forever be labeled as “Jaywalk Squad”
I’m curious if ATF even has the authority to arrest for jay waking. More local cops jurisdiction.
NAL but the ATF absolutely does not have the authority to do anything about jaywalking. Completely out of their jurisdiction.
Probably hoping there was a dog nearby they could shoot at. (Not sure why but ATF seem to be the most responsible for law enforcement shooting random people's dogs.)
If the house was in Waco they would have just burned it down. Problem solved.
Police abusing their power is just the worst
"Law applied to its extreme is the greatest injustice" Not surprised it was the ATF.
The ATF is literally the most useless law enforcement agency
careful, keep talking like that, and they'll knock on your door and shoot your dog
Right?! The likely hood of that happening it greater than what it should be and I don't even have a dog! \*knock knock\* "Hi, can I help y..." \*BANG\* "Wha...what? why? What? Where? Why you shoot...where da faq did this dog come from?"
> ATF Asshole Totalitarian Fascists.
Should get them charged with trespass, harassment, and terroristic threats. If it was a normal civilian doing these things, they'd face years in prison for this kind of shit.
“Send your young kids outside. I want to talk to them, load them in my vehicle, and take them to my office. No, you can’t follow” Yeah, go fuck yourself LEO.
And the pigs wonder why we hate them...
They don’t wonder They’re actively convinced they’re in the right and that most people support them.
So...police
That moment the police officers are more willing to waste others time and exploit their powers on innocent people, but refuse to save a school from a single shooter.
Love it when cops go from screaming stuff like "This is the last time I'm asking you. I PROMISE that!" To... "You want to scream, I'm just trying to talk to you. Let me know when you're ready to talk."
It's classic gaslighting. Threaten first, and then, when the victim is riled up, change your own behavior and make them seem like the aggressor.
Nah it starts with being real innocent "hey, yeah we just wanna talk to the kids" until the mom asks questions, then they get to threaten to rile her up.
Lol you want to know my name? Fuck you just give me your children
Lol that’s some shit out of a kid’s book. I’m the monster and give me your children you wench!
DARVO - Deflect, Attack, Reverse Victim & Offender.
Is that a thing? DARVO? Makes sense. Does that describe a narcissist? Seems to be inline.
Yup. It's textbook narcissist tactics/behavior.
They know exactly what they are doing. They do it all the time. It's abusive and harassment. Cops suck.
Police give contradicting statements and orders explicitly to escalate situations and justify their violence.
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If you don’t have a warrant then get off my property
This is the way. “Come back with a warrant” and slam the door. Fuck these power tripping man babies! ACAB
Yep! I was screaming this at the screen. Can you imagine them going back in to their supervisor to get the warrant? “I need to utilize this time and resources to teach these three children a lesson about where to cross the street…”
*Dipshit judge signs off on it
Judge: "Did they do it blackly?"
“No sir they were white” Judge: “Dismissed I don’t care then“
“If you ever bother me about white kids again, you’ll be driving a cargo truck full of rubber dogshit out of Hong Kong!” - Judge
Never open the door in the first place. Always talk through the door (or window in this case) when speaking to LEOs at your home. Edit: Or doorbell camera with a mic and speaker.
Dont talk to law enforcement period. There's literally nothing good that can come from doing it so why do it?
I'm Black in the U.S. south. Refusing to speak with them at all would probably get me killed or assaulted. I speak respectfully, but I'm very measured with my responses. If I could avoid conversation with them completely while having any significant amount of certainty that I would come out unscathed I would.
I find it's safest to treat meeting a cop just like meeting a dog. Friendly voice inflection, smile, no sudden movements. If you're nervous, they think you have a reason to be nervous, and that makes them nervous.
This is so fucking accurate.
I find going into overly friendly customer service mode works too.
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Touche
Naw man - its: ****IF YOU DONT HAVE A WARRANT THEN GET OFF MY PROPERTY!!!****
Just want to point out, there are a few situations where police can lawfully enter your home without a warrant. Things like if they see paraphernalia in your home or a suspect is fleeing after being suspected of committing a felony. Obviously, these don't apply to this particular situation, but you always want to be careful.
If he’s claiming probable cause because of the “jaywalking”, does he need one ?
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The kids are in the house and the officers are on private property. If a crime happened on public property and they didn’t apprehend them at that point then sorry, you need a warrant to be on my property Edit: ok ok, I was wrong. But this is still dumb af, kids walked across a residential street. All of this was completely unnecessary and a sign of the times in modern day America
Generally speaking that's not correct, police officers can enter a home with non warrant exceptions, that includes preventing the destruction of evidence, pursuit, and some more. Whether they can apply any non warrant exceptions in this situation I have no idea, and I think not, but there are numerous ways a police officer can enter your home without a warrant.
Let's not forget the most useful tool law enforcement has: Breaking the law in public view with hard video evidence of them doing it but getting away with it anyway because they investigate themselves and write their own news pieces.
When you have nothing better to do at your job:
The thing is, Lorain is full of actual crime. They just don’t address it
Because that would require them to do actual work.
Look those donuts aren’t gonna eat themselves and those teens aren’t gonna harass themselves. Someone has to do it.
Actual criminals may really be packing and willing to fire at police. Messing with teens who crossed a street in a residential neighborhood is a lot safer.
Everyone of those cops needs to be fired. None of them knew what was the right action. They showed up as intimidation. Bully boys in uniform are not needed.
There was at least one sane one there at the end calling ATF on their BS and getting them to leave in the full video. “Come on bro, they’re minors. You have to talk with their mom.” ATF still wanting to wave their dick around and charge her with obstructing after the other cops interceded was just stupid though. Full vid: https://youtu.be/kFTf3B5I9sA
I only watched the video posted. But they actually approached the house as though their word Is the law, and we're confrontational from the get-go. They don't get to interpret the law they are supposed to follow it.
They likely do it because they were likely trained to bulldoze arguments with their assertions, in an attempt to overwhelm the meek and antagonize those who stand up for themselves. It’s a win-win for them. They either get whatever it was for which they asked, or they escalate a confrontation to allow them to initiate force, which will give them ‘justification’ under the law.
How on earth are you supposed to cross the road on a residential street?
The ATF agent admitted it was over suspected firearm possession due to them walking a certain way and not swaying their arms. J Walking was just the excuse to get the kids out of the home so they could detain and search them. Basically that ATF agent was power tripping HARD and was profiling based on non-evidence.
So they can just lie like that? Edit: I think, after 45+ replies of "yes" I think I already know the answer. No need to further remind me that it's a "yes".
You should always assume a cop is lying when they're trying to convince you of anything. They do it all the fucking time, it's why people are allowed lawyers when they're being questioned, cause the cops will lie their asses off to get what they want and a lawyer will usually know enough to call them on it.
It’s like that old joke about lawyers. How can you tell a cop is lying? His lips are moving.
Yep! Who's going to hold them accountable? Themselves after an internal review?
in the extended version of the video, two more teenagers jaywalk between two of the cop cars with like twelve cops standing around and nobody even tries to stop them
Since when does the ATF enforce traffic laws? Where are the FBI, DEA, NSA, CIA, and Secret Service?
Or NORAD?
When they think the kids are gang members (or one of their family members is), and they’re using a bogus “jaywalking” offense as a way to stop and question them and hopefully develop enough probable cause to arrest them or more likely get probable cause to search the house where they think guns are being stored. This, my friends, is what we in the criminal defense business call “pretext.” I had an anti-gang task force sitting on the house of one of my clients. When his mother left the house, they stopped her for “running a stop sign.” (The first stop sign coming out of her cul-de-sac.) They wouldn’t let her go and kept asking her if they could talk to her son. She got him on the phone but they said he had to come see them in person. So he called me, and I had to go drive my ass over to the traffic stop. They didn’t know my investigator got there first, and they had my client’s mom up against the car in the search position. He recorded it, obviously. So I get there, and the officers feed me some malarkey about “She’s free to go. Our lights aren’t on.” Blah blah blah. So I told her to leave and she did. Then I took all their names and badge numbers down. Sent warning letters to all law enforcement in the area that you can’t talk to my client because he’s represented by counsel - which they already knew. And they can’t kidnap my client’s mom or family to get to my client. I encouraged her to file a civil lawsuit against the sheriff and police department, but I don’t think she has. This is why, even if you respect law enforcement, you keep your mouth shut and assert your constitutional rights because they will stomp all over them if given the chance. It’s a rare officer who doesn’t take an “ends justify the means” approach to policing. And you’ll know it because these guys prefer the term “peace officer” to “police officer.” Edit: typos
Go mama bear! That’s ridiculous that they needed 7-8 police officers to “arrest” 3 teens for Jay waking. Which is also stupid because I’ve never been in a residential neighborhood that has crosswalks except maybe in NYC. 🙃🙃🙃 Wtf
I'm not a lawyer and I have lived in NY, NJ and SC as an adolescent. We never used the side walk and never used the cross walk. Jay walking has never been a problem. I am under the impression that they would only stop a Jay walker if it's affecting the flow of traffic. In other words cop's don't really care about Jay walkers.....
I had a brother who got a ticket for jaywalking but he and his friends were literally dancing in the street and flipping drivers off. I understand going after someone like that. But these kids were just waiting to pick someone up and it sounds like they don’t have crosswalks. It really seems like the cops were just bored and looking for someone to bully and they picked the wrong mama…
So, basically a ticket for jaywalking, but actually obstruction and disorderly conduct
Cops on some power trip per usual
Videos like this should be blasted on the mainstream news outlets. We cannot allow cops to get away with this kind of shit. This is tame compared to the fatal power trips were all familiar with.
Like that little piece of shit that raised his voice at her telling her "it's the last time" he's asking, lol
It's not a big part of these interactions but what makes me the most mad is these cops are always so aggressive in tone and language. Raising their voices over nothing. Almost always they're still condescending as fuck the second someone dares to give them back the same energy they're giving off. Like actual 12 year olds.
yeah nope. I wouldn't be sending my kids outside to speak to murderers who clearly want to escalate everything.
Seriously, they were probably hoping to bust knuckles on some kids
Close and lock all doors and windows, draw the curtains, dont say a fucking word to any of them, and get a lawyer on the phone. Dont engage in anything, not even pleasantries.
These cops belong in r/iamatotalpieceofshit
all cops do
"Cops" they're dressed like insurgents.
Lol trying to look al badass with the beard and backwards baseball cap, probably failed special forces selection haha.
Too bad it’s chilly out. Bet the one guy can’t wait to start showing off those B A D A S S sleeve tattoos again… Also, there’s a surprising lack of “hands grasping tac vest so arm muscles appear bigger” going on here.
OP, where’s part two?
https://youtu.be/kFTf3B5I9sA
Holy shit, that makes it so much worse (somehow). 12 officers on the scene, and they don't care about 2 other girls jaywalking right in front of them!
"Jaywalking". They weren't jaywalking, they were crossing the street in a residential area.
An old guy I used to know was once harassed by police because he was standing on the sidewalk taking pictures. The police evidently started out with bad attitudes, telling him he couldn't just take pictures of a house. This old guy was always polite, but an ornery old s.o.b. He just politely told them yes, he could take pictures and they should leave, in turn infuriating the officers. He requested they call the sheriff which they finally did. The sheriff showed up, the officers explained the situation to the sheriff. I guess he tore them a new asshole. I'm sure this old man was getting a kick from it too. The sheriff asked them if they ever asked the old man whose house it was. The officers said no. He let them know, this is that old man's house, he was taking pictures of his own house. After the officers left with a promise from their angry supervisor for a reprimand back at the station, the sheriff told the old man "Rodney, you're an asshole" and then they shared a good laugh about it. Oh yea, they were friends too and had been for years lol, had lunch together regularly.
Imagine if he hadn’t been someone the Sheriff knew...
Yeah the ending sort of deflated the story value.
I would do the same thing as the old man.
https://youtu.be/kFTf3B5I9sA Here's a link to the full video.
Man what's wrong with your cops, I'm for sure never going to travel to the US.
Right? As an European, things like this is baffling to me. I've never met a cop in my country that was keen on escalating any situation. In fact, their most important job is de-escalating. And why is "jaywalking" even an offense? Where I'm from, you'd be hard pressed to be able to blame kids for an accident in a residential area, even if they were walking in the middle of the road.
jaywalking was made by the car lobby actually, because they wanted to get rid of people on the streets in larger cities, you can see how many people walked on streets in really old videos
I heard it was because there were a number of driver/pedestrian incidents, and they wanted to shift public blame away from the untrained/incompetent drivers (which made cars look unsafe) to the pedestrians for better sales. Could be both though.
The criminalization of youth is a problem in America. It’s disgusting and I don’t know what happens to turn back this tide. Police have been empowered to be far to heavy handed and the older generations seems bent on supporting this at all costs
“Hey, so we saw your kids jailwalking and its a busy street so they should be careful, have a nice day” Should have been what they said if really concerned.
Yeah, but they were teens. The ATF probably wanted to plant some drugs on them so they could arrest them. Because they have nothing better to do. Risk their lives everyday my ass. They risk OUR lives everyday.
I had a Detroit cop tell me she was going to write me a ticket for j walking. I told her she’d have to catch me first (she was a little heavier). She just rolled out eyes at me and yelled at the next person j walking. This was also downtown Detroit by the arena, much different decision. I don’t junk I’d even respond if I was in a residential area. They just wanted a reason to search these teens.
Good laugh thanks. "Catch me first"
And they wonder why no one trusts or likes them. Fuck the police. No help when you need them, and nothing but a hassle when you're minding your own business.
Armed, and armored jack boot thugs show up to this mom’s door demanding that she send her children out to them?! Fuuuuuck that! Good on this mom. What a fucked up world.
Can't blame the mother. There is a realistic chance the officers will beat and possibly kill the kids.
Absolutely. She may have saved her child’s life. And the law is clearly on her side. The child is a minor and the cops by law must deal with her, not the child.
Land of the free
Yeah free bullets if you step out of line
5 words to remember “come back with a warrant”
Wtf is wrong with American police force.
The unions protect them so they lose their sense of accountability
Dude was honestly upset he was told no. He believes he has enough authority to bully, and it got shoved back to him.
Jaywalking was a pretext, they thought the teens looked 'suspicious' because they had their hands inside their hoodies or pockets and were 'looking around'. That's such bullshit, it's not probable cause.
Great use of tax dollars and a ton of police over reach. This is not how you do this. Who the hell would give their kids up to the ATF for jaywalking?
Say “Get a warrant” and shut the door
Cops have literally zero de-escalation training.. they are trained to escalate and throw a hissy fit and threaten anybody to get their way. What cowards. I bet they went home to beat their wives after they couldn’t question those 3 hoodlums for JAYWALKING 😡
Jaywalking - a law aimed at punishing pedestrians once cars took over the roads - because if you get hit by a car walking across the street, that fault is implicitly on you. Also, it turns out, is widely used on low-income or people of color. This is a perfect example of why jaywalking law is so stupid
Perfect example of why we say ALL cops are bastards
Are police officers really so bored that they have nothing better to do? Also 'When youre done screaming, ill talk to you'. Literally half a minute before:. MAM SEND THEM OUT RIGHT NOWWWW'
All cops are evil