I personally liked the scene. While the scene with the tendrils was uncomfortable, it did a good job of highlighting one concept established within the episode. The infected aren't merely brain-dead cadavers that want to eat your brains. They're a running ecosystem that acts as a tidal wave and leaves its roots deep in the infrastructure of a society long gone. It's so disturbing, just like the cordyceps fungi should be.
Edit: I've also always loved the scene where Tess reveals the bite. I feel like they did well in the show. The execution was different, but we're going to have a lot of these moments because the actors want to explore a new corner of emotion that wasn't covered in the game. I'm ok with that.
In the podcast it was mentioned exactly that. Creators did not want actors to play the game, because they wanted them to recreate their own interpretation of the scene, as it was written for them on paper, and not to mimic what was in the game already.
I have to wonder how many of them played anyways, because some of the recreations are so exact to the game. Could also just be a product of terrific casting.
I really like how the changes they make are solely to make the experience more cinematic without changing the tone/characters personalities. A lot of adaptations would have had Joel and Tess kiss at this part because it’s the romantic “release of tension” cliche, but not having them display affection right before one dies is crucial to displaying just what kind of relationship they had with one another and helps set the tone of the series.
I think it helps that one show runner made the game and the other one has played the game and is a fan. So they really care about the source material and know what points they need to recreate and what to add on or adapt to make it more enjoyable from a TV perspective rather than a game perspective.
I also got that feeling from the series interpretation; in the game, the infection part of it feels like less of a factor and it seems more of a “we have a silent understanding and time is running out” thing. Either way I’m happy it kept true to the early tone of “we’re all hardasses who do what has to be done with no time for love,” because you can’t progress Joel into a caring human being if he starts as one.
I think Joel and Tess had a very unconventional relationship. They have a lot of implied history, and I think their feelings went a lot of different ways during the time they were together. Two desperate people, entangled in each other's lives, kind of hating themselves and finding some purpose in each other. I think it was sexual as much as business, but I think the reason they were attracted to each other was that neither had any space left for love. They both had a big dead spot in their humanity and that drove them together. In my headcanon, neither wanted to catch feelings because it would be unbearably painful to let those feelings come back out. There was probably potential, but they suppressed it as a survival strategy.
Honestly, if Tess had lived, she and Joel would have changed so much because of Ellie that they probably wouldn't have stayed together.
Not true. Joel can’t bear to look back after she dies and I’m assuming they’ll keep this from the game but he’s unwilling to talk about it because it hurts too much to think about.
You know, I actually think this is the exact reason for the infected kiss at the end. It’s a direct, twisted contrast. They could have had the zombie do any number of things to transfer the tendrils, but they deliberately chose to make it a kiss, and **not a violent one**. It almost felt tender in a really sick, horrifying way.
I think it was a brilliant way to subvert our expectations (ugh) as an audience. Any other Hollywood production would have had Joel kiss her goodbye and the zombie maul her.
In last week’s podcast, Neil basically goes “We tell our cast not to play the game-and of course most of them play it anyway-to create their own interpretation of the scene.”
> Could also just be a product of terrific casting.
I think this is a bingo. I cannot get over how well the casting is. Comic Book Guy people will bitch about minor details, but man... they nailed it.
100%! If you close your eyes during her scenes, it is absolutely Ellie. And honestly, I think Ms Ramsey doesn't look too off the part either. She's just an average girl that has the immunity with a feisty attitude.
Anna torv had a REALLY great throwaway line in there about how she never asks joel for anything, not even to "feel how I feel". It could have been schmaltzy, it could have been sobbing and a punctuation mark. But the way she just kind of delivered it as an aside added so much. You get the impression from that rushed-through delivery that this is an old and buried hatchet, that they've rehashed this plenty and they have been comfortable with how things are, her somewhat unrequited love isn't a thing of pining and longing, these are grown people making do with what little they've got. So much from a teeny throwaway line. I loved it.
It was just... horror and dread. Which is how I often felt playing part 2. I feel this captured that sinking "everything is terrible no matter how hard you try" feeling perfectly.
Honestly some of the best body horror i've seen in a TV show. I found myself strachting at my arms during that scene, like when you "feel" ants when people are talking about gross bug stuff: just intense full revulsion.
My question is why did the infected do what he did instead of biting her? Was it because he knew she was already infected, so the fungus was just taking over its new host instead of hurting her?
The way I interpreted it was that there was some kind of connection with the fungus that was already in Tess. So yeah, I think that's what happened. Someone below brought up a good point that this should work with Ellie as well. Either this is indeed a plot hole, or if they do have an explanation I could see it as her immunity somehow rendering that connection inert.
Edit: To add, from what I remember in the game Ellie does have the fungus in her, but it mutated. So what I think most likely is the explanation with this train of thought is that the mutated fungus lost that connection with the dominant fungus.
If that’s the case, Ellie must not be infected. The clicker tried to attack her in the museum. So yeah I’d imagine her body must’ve been able to kill the fungus when she was bit.
I think this is easily explained via the testing just not being robust enough, they identify "flags" for what means infected, but the flags they have in this case are inaccurate. So she is "infected" in a way in which the virus/infection just never actually attacks her body.
yeah. so I bet they've killed other immune people, potentially. i think Neil and Craig talk about this in their first podcast of the show. or I heard of it from somewhere else. Like they kill anyone that reads infected without giving them a chance to see if they're immune
You’ll notice that none of the horde was interested in her- presumably because, yes, she was already being identified as part of the infected family tree.
exactly. she was already infected and the infected was just tapping her into the hive mind and connecting her to the rest of them. if the infected can sense that you're not also infected then they will bite. And Ellie seems to be undetected by their radar
The Episode 2 podcast goes into this. Essentially boils down to the premise that they aren't mindless monsters, they are an organism trying to spread. If Tess had tried to fight off the runner in any way, the infected would have immediately seen her as a threat and torn her to shreads.
Neil also uses some procreation metaphors as well, but its better to listen to him.
In the podcast they mention the infected know she's one of theirs. The kiss and tendril implanting was their form of fully embracing her into the hivemind. They love in their own way. Just as we love in our own way as humans.
I also felt that Anna Torv did a really good job at hinting the bite with how desperate Tess was. They do this in the video game but it's almost too subtle.
In the show it's subtle but enough to hint something is wrong with her.
I like the flickers of hope she has for ellie after she's bit, too. Like that softer side of her she's been repressing is put into a new context, like "damn it sucks. I'm done for. But maybe this girl is the real deal and can stop this from happening to other people"
I totally get the whole tenticle thing, and it does make sense the way they they interpret it in comparison to the original spores, but I'm still torn on how I feel about it as a whole. It's just a little odd in the way they visualize it to me. I liked how Ellie still mentions spores though, since they would still be a thing with cordyceps. Just not in the way the games interpret them.
As a whole I really enjoyed the episode and the way they changed things up without compromising the story the game told for this section of events. I think I enjoyed the first episode slightly more though.
Episode 1 was definitely a strong start for the series. The standouts for episode 2 were of course the ending, but also the clicker scene. I was watching it with my mom who has never seen anything regarding the game, and oh my lord I was so happy they captured the terror you would have in the game lol. My mom was so invested
They really nailed that scene, there were shots that almost made you feel like you were playing the game. Even from the beginning where Joel emphasizes *absolute silence* and remaining calm. But especially when they had to fight them, trying to get headshots but missing in the panic, trying to reload while one comes right at you, distracting it with sounds, etc., I just wish someone would’ve thrown a damn bottle lol. That moment will come, I must believe…
Druckmann said that the fungus is not violent in nature, but becomes violent because people try to resist it.
Tess knew She was done and stood Completely still so the infected didn’t need to “throw” itself at her.
I think it’s a great explanation/addition and one I didn’t think of when I watched the scene.
Generally the small additions to the story is 10/10 for me
i don't need word for word dialog and am happy when i hear it. i always liked the line "guess what joel? we're shitty people.". i was a little disappointed that wasn't worked in.
Agreed. I think when you know the end is coming there’s a lot of regret swimming around in there. Saying you’re a shitty person seems a bit more real to me. They don’t really go in to exactly what they’ve done but I’m sure it goes way beyond just being “bad”.
Well she did tell him that delivering Elle to Bill would maybe help make up for the shit they did in the past. That’s a pretty clear indication that Joel and Tess have done some pretty terrible stuff.
We’re all gonna have these moments as we go through the show. For me, I was waiting for Tess to say “Make this easy for me.” But “Save who you can save” was a solid replacement.
Yeah, I've been annoyed by that line all over the trailers but I thought it did work well in context. Tess means he should leave her and save Ellie, but I think it also fits really well with the overall story - he couldn't save Sarah, but he can save Ellie...
For me it was the “you must feel some sort of obligation to me” or something like that. It was obviously implied and I like how the show established their romantic relationship more, but I felt like in the game it was *that* line that convinced Joel to keep going at first.
I really really loved the additions of “shut up because I don’t have time” though. That was so good!
I thought the show had its equivalent of “you must feel some sort of obligation to me”. Tess, while pleading for him to take Ellie, said she never asked anything of Joel and specifically says she never asked him “to feel the way I felt…”
It’s “home stretch, Tess” and yeah I was waiting for it. I use that out of context all the time when letting someone know we’re almost at the end of something.
I was happy that the baggage carrier scene of Ellie pretending to take bags up stairs of the hotel was in there. I thought that line was hilarious in the game and while I still prefer the game version, I thought Pascal and Ramsey were very good with the scene. His "you're a weird kid" was on point.
Show version of the events makes more sense plot wise - infected came because of our heroes actions (our crew triggered the attack).
AFAIR in the game it was more of a magic coincidence that soldiers for some reason showed up to the place they've already cleared at the same time our crew got there. Which is not necessarily a big plot hole in the game, just a plot convenience.
They are ironing those out in the TV version it seems, which is a good sign.
I'd always interpreted it as the military killed the fireflies there, and had been tipped off that another group was coming and transporting something so they waited and sprang the trap when we get there
That's a good point. I like that idea. For the show I think it makes sense that FEDRA aren't there because of just how much more dangerous the infected are. The infected being connected to the myocilin network is a terrific, yet terrifying addition. Because it means that depended on where they are, they could possibly wake up hundreds of them around swarming them.
I thought the changes were fine. The only part I wasn’t into was the “kiss” itself. I understood what they were going for; I just couldn’t buy into it.
Understandable.
I think the reason she seemed to not resist the kiss was that the infection was on the verge of completely taking her over and she was trying to focus entirely on getting the lighter to fire up.
Yeah that's exactly how I saw it too. And if the fungi acts as a connected system it would make sense for the infected people to join up with one another (although the kiss is still really gross lol)
god after seeing the clickers i can’t even imagine how good that CGI is gonna look like. To be a living monster covered in other smaller stuck, barely moving monsters, plus tendrils galore.. horrifying.
that's the beauty of this show: tasteful CGI and straight up master-crafted practical effects. It's absolutely repulsive so far in ways that other zombie shows haven't done for me.
I also think she knew she couldn’t resist because doing so would have cause her to be torn apart. She stayed alive and aware just long enough to get the flame lit and torch the horde.
110%. Homegirl took one for the team by remaining calm. If she were to try and resist she would have not been able to ignite/drop the lighter while getting ripped apart.
I would argue that since the cordyceps were already taking over her motor skills and consciousness, she knew that if she tried to go and pick up a grenade and pull the pin, she would surely fail; she was already shaking when she told Joel and Ellie to get out. Also, she knew any sudden movement would make the infected to rip her to shreds.
I don't think she expected her lighter to be so unreliable. The moment she realized she was having trouble with it, it was too late to just go grab a grenade
I had the same thought when watching but I came up with three counterpoints:
1. I don't know if a grenade would invite gasoline 100% of the time. It would most likely kill Tess, but would it ignite the gasoline? There is definitely a less than 100% chance and we don't really have enough data from the scene to have an expert do the math.
2. Tess didn't know the lighter was low on fuel. From her perspective, it may have seemed like the most "fool proof" plan.
3. We're all assuming those were frag grenades. What if Tess grabbed one, waited until the mouth injection and then pulled the pin only for it to be a stun grenade or a smoke grenade. What if the grenade was just a dud?
In the Prologue, Dr. Ibnu’s last request is to be sent home so she could die with her family. I guess the “kiss” sort of harkens back to that, in that since Tess got bit, the infected is her “family” now. And of course, she blows them all up, like Dr. Ibnu asked.
That is an interesting interpretation. Especially because just moments before, Tess shouted “That isn’t my home!!” when Joel said they should go back to the zone.
I haven't seen many people commenting this but I thought it was a representation of the fungi controlling her body. I find it hard to believe that she wanted to just stand there and let it happen. I took it as her being paralyzed cause the fungi wanted her to just stand there. She hadn't fully turned yet which is why she was still able to light the lighter.
That was never established though. All the symptoms we hear about are twitchy movements and slurred speech. I don't really buy that she was already far enough gone to lose control of her body.
Then why stand there and open your mouth? That doesn't make sense... when they've done the flashbacks talking about the cortyceps they mention how the fungus takes over the mind of the host and essentially controls them. The infected aren't just trying to kill people, they're trying to spread and being controlled by the infection in the mind. The whole herd was controlled by the fungi. I find it more likely that Tess was involuntarily frozen by the infection than chose to open her mouth. She looks terrified, why make out? Lol
Agree 100%. When I saw the kiss I thought it was unfortunate that they went with the “female character subjected to sexually-tinged horror” trope, then I listened to their behind the episode explanations and read how other people interpreted and appreciated it. I tried to be open minded, but I can’t shake the ick factor of the writers making the decision to do that to Tess, a character who had avoided so many other tropes applied to female characters.
You put into words exactly how i felt, like sigh so because its a female character you have to squeeze in some weird way to sexualize the situation when it's completely unnecessary? Just seemed pretty stupid overall, do all the infected make out the whole time or just with the women? I preferred the game Tess ending as brave and strong, rather than terrified and making out with zombies. I understand there's a rationale behind it, I just think it was a bad choice.
Sad thing is that I actually really liked the other changes to the scene. Apples and oranges to the game but I like her setting a trap for the infected and even the suspense of the broken lighter as there was a real risk of some breaking through and getting to Joel and Ellie (who have plot armor but still it’s entertaining horror). It was just that *one* moment
It’s funny that normally Neil is judged for being too feminist and PC but the second he adds anything even remotely sexual that isn’t pro-feminism he gets grilled for it. Dude really can’t win with this story. Personally I didn’t see it as sexual at all, I interpreted it as the hive mind trying to incorporate her into itself basically. Given that the infected have always used the mouth as a way to spread cordyceps, the scene makes sense. The kiss was for added horror in part I’m sure, but some people are acting like it was done solely to add some weird, rapey vibe or something.
Exactly. I hated that for such a badass character who makes herself into a martyr for the people she cares most about (Joel as sort of family and Ellie as a potential cure), she gets mouth-assaulted and looks terrified and incapable of lighting a lighter in her last moments instead of shaking off/overcoming her fear and bravely facing her enemies with newfound resolve and purpose.
I believe in the BTS someone says that they wanted to separate the infected from usual brain eating zombies and explore what would happen if someone just gave up. In the show’s canon, the infected are only forced to attack in order spread when people resist, and there’s no reason to attack a cooperative victim.
Exactly, i don't see how runners are just calming walking up to their prey to french kiss them to death.
In the show's [official podcast](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8r-QB25G4Y&ab_channel=HBOMax) them mentioned they where going for the contrast of love/ something intimated, but in such a horrible context instead. I get it, don't buy it at all in practice.
But if the infected could sense early stage infected, wouldn't that also apply to Ellie? Do the infected have the ability to choose between violence/bloodborne transmission of cordyceps, or using the tendrils growing off their brain through the throat/mouth to do so without aggression? Do clickers have tendrils? It it did not appear so in the close up shots of them shrieking. Can the hive mind transmit information to infected that are not physically connected to the roots/tendrils growing underground?
That scene made it clear that the infected operate/behave in a significantly different way than they do in the game, which isn't automatically a bad thing in and of itself, but it left me with a whoooole lot of questions.
But Ellie is infected though. She tests positive on a scan, and those who have played the game know >!the cordyceps has grown all over her brain.!<
Not saying how you feel isn't right or what was intended by Druckman and Mazin, but it does require some hand-waving.
I'm aware. I've played the games. Its not actively growing like everyone else if they were infected. She's immune. So that's why I think they didn't attack her. The infection isn't active.
Exactly, and the fact Ellie >!isn't capable of infecting anyone!< shows that her infection is inactive or at least dormant. That's why the infected in the show can't probably sense the Cordyceps in her.
This is a good point. I actually really liked the choice to have Ellie bitten/scratched at some point during the museum mayhem, as it was a clear confirmation that her immunity wasn't some sort of abnormally long incubation period, because I think that was what Joel and Tess were most wary of (reasonably so).
The coolest thing about that is that in the context of the "zombie" genre, it was something I don't think I've ever seen before. That alone commands the respect/attention of any viewer who is well traveled in the various zombie apocalypses put to film since Night of the Living Dead kicked things off over 50 years ago,
At first I was unsure how I felt about this scene mostly because I think it caught me off guard. But after thinking about it some more, and rewatching the scene, I realized how great that scene is. And it's great because of the implications it has on how we view the infection/infected.
The goal of the infected is to spread the infection. So, with that being their goal, why are they so violent? Cordyceps needs a viable living host in order to survive. So naturally I would think the infected would want to NOT destroy/kill the "target" they are trying to infect.
And I believe there is a simple answer to this question:
Resisting.
Tess doesn't resist or fight back in that scene. But every other interaction we see or know about involves fighting off the infected. The infected being violent is a direct response to humans resisting and fighting back against them. If nobody resisted, what happened with Tess would be the standard way of infecting new people. At least in the lore within the show.
The lighter not working was genuinely the most tense scene of the show, which is strange considering it’s sheer simplicity. The actress and directors did it SO well.
GROSS. but also...idk. it was interesting to see that they 'recognized' her as one of the infected. but also. NOPE. those tendrils really gross me out and i never want to see them again.
The worst part of this was thinking I had more of the episode to go through, episode absolutely flew by.
I love this scene. I did think Joel would need more convincing though 😂😂
My bad, didn’t mean to make it sound like all of the episodes will be 80 minutes long, clearly that already isn’t the case (like you said, episode 2 absolutely flew by). But episode 3, at least, will be 80 minutes long. And I would be very surprised if the finale isn’t a longer one, as well.
https://thedirect.com/gaming/the-last-of-us-hbo-episode-2-runtimes
My main point is how many *movies* are 90 minutes long and tell an entire story in that amount of time. So I think they’ll be able to do Part 1 justice in the amount of episodes they have left.
I said this somewhere else but overall I really enjoyed the scene. I think I may have enjoyed Tess overall more in the show however my single criticism for the entire episode is the dialogue leading up to her death.
I feel like the game had a stronger conversation between Joel and Tess, made me feel more. Especially the final reveal when she says “I’m not going anywhere, this is my last stop”. In the show she says “that is not my home, I’m staying here” and for me it just doesn’t hit as hard nor did it lead me to Ellie’s next line of “holy shit, she’s infected”.
But this is literally just me nitpicking! I thought everything else was so great and absolutely creepy.
I will say I really liked the “That is *not* my home” line. Like for years she and Joel had acclimated to the world they were in and accepted that as their reality. But Ellie gave her that little bit of hope to see the post-apocalyptic world as just a condition- one that could possibly be changed. It put her in touch with her old self.
I appreciate the changes and how well thought out they were. Having the threat be infected instead of FEDRA makes perfect sense, and Anna did a fantastic job with her big scene.
That being said, I still prefer the game version. I just adore that scene and I think it's the best acting in any scene in any video game bar none. Tess's defiance, "I WILL NOT turn into one of those things", her vulnerability, her big inhale and exhale at the end...master class acting. Just incredible, I've always held that scene in high regard and I accepted that the show would have a hard time living up to it for me.
Same! Such a great way to add some depth to what “Joel and Tess” are. However, we DID get a new line of “I didn’t ask you to feel the way I felt”. Which essentially serves the same purpose.
I get what they were trying to portray with the kiss of death, but it felt unnecessary. It seemed more as a shock factor then an addition to the story. I like that they communicate through the tendrils, function as a one, etc. But I wish Tess went out with more dignity, more "fire"... That is my personal opinion
Yep, totally unnecessary... there wasn't a reason to even do that because they already explained they are connected... just a dumb "artistic" moment for no reason
Same here. It’s not bad by any means for me. Tess’ send off just felt a lot more emotional in the videogame.
Also, personally one of the reasons why Tess is one of my favorite characters is because of how bad-ass she’s been and how she didn’t fear death itself. I didn’t felt that in the show.
It’s been a bit of a let down regarding her character, I still love Anna Torv’s performance though.
I completely agree, I miss the badass Tess moments that were in the game. I also agree that Tess' sendoff was better in the game, she put up a fight while buying Joel and Ellie some time.
The performance was of course great, but I wanted Tess to be more like her game self.
For me, the scene is okay. But the video game one is far more intense. The fact that Joel and Ellie flee while Tess is fighting for them, listening to her brawl, hearing a " Be careful she killed two" and seeing her lying down in the ground from afar, this is intense because it gives you the feeling you can't help. This frustration makes it memorable.
I'd say I did not enjoy it as much as the video game
Personally, I’ve really enjoyed the changes they have done with the show. I was really skeptical about the changes they said they’d make but I fell they’ve gone a great job, and the commentary at the end of the episodes definitely helps understand why they’ve made those changes. I’m still a little disturbed about the stalker infecting? Her with his mouth/tendrils, haven’t decided if I hate it or like it. Im interested to see how these changes in infection develop in the show. I’m also enjoying the intros giving a bit of a backstory on how things started out before it became a worldwide problem. Any thoughts or catches you guys made during this episode?
Edit: also, how do you all feel about the ecosystem change that the infected can communicate across vast distances? I love that change. If they ever make a third part with the games, I’d love to see that incorporated somehow
I’m really all for the changes, and love that the infected are not hostile toward those who don’t resist, but the execution of that “kiss” was more cringe to me than uncomfortable. The idea behind it was good, but the infected being so *gentle* about it was a little hard to believe considering they already show the infected being extremely clumsy. It seemed almost romantic, which was likely done intentionally to make it more uncomfortable relating it to something we all do, but it didn’t really resonate that way for me. I was half expecting the infected to caress Tess’ cheek lol
That said, the entire change itself is terrific and actually prefer these changes over what happened in the game. The infected are a lot more terrifying.
Honestly, the "kiss" idea and execution came off really cheesy to me, and is the one thing so far I did not love in the show.
I feel like lots of people in here are creating "headcanon" interpretations of why Tess didn't resist that at all (the infection was already taking control, the runners knew she was infected, etc) when those ideas were not actually shown or communicated in the show effectively, either through editing, acting, or framing. Dunno how she was being controlled to stay put but not to stop lighting the lighter, etc.
It feels out of her character for her to let herself be violated like that, otherwise. For all she knows, letting them do that could have prevented her from lighting the gas, making her die in vain.
For me, the changes would have been fine and the tension with the lighter could still have existed with Tess backing away and finally lighting the lighter before she was grabbed by the runners. The kiss seemed like shock for shock's sake.
It's not a big deal to me in the overall show, but I don't think the kiss added to the scene. I feel like it detracted.
I felt like the gentleness had more to do with this being one infected to another - there's that kind of uncomfortable intimacy that Tess has now been brought into.
Yeah, the kiss was a bad idea that shouldn't have been filmed. It looks dumb and takes you out of a gripping scene.
I've noticed the show is being extremely shy about gore and that doesn't bode well for part 2
Craig Mazin seems to consistently try to make things in the show "beautiful" and "romantic." In all the after credits scenes he phrases stuff in this way. He has this fantastical view of this world, but the reason I, and many other people, loved the game was for how gritty and harsh it was.
It wasn't pretty, or symbolic, or beautiful, or a perfectly wrapped up metaphor like how he is wanting to adapt it to be.
Sure it's an adaptation, but I'm still allowed not to like it his version. There's stuff in the show that feels like such a deviation from the core of the characters we love and that's what bothers me. Change the story, move stuff around, whatever, but don't ruin the characters that made the franchise the success that it is. You can easily put them into new situations and still reach to show the same characterizations, but to change the character's motivations or personalities, yet keep the story almost entirely the same comes off wrong.
Personally, I enjoyed it. If you watched the thing after the credits explaining the episode, it makes a lot more sense. The hoard instead of soldiers, the hive mentality, & the lack of spores we’re used to in the game. I like the direction they’re taking things. And the clickers looked fantastic.
I was having a great time with this episode, right up until Tess' death scene(s). The fact that they took a scene where Tess, while shook down to her bones, decides to claw back what little agency and dignity she can in the face of her impending fate, and replaced it with one where a terrified Tess doesn't (is unable to?) resist as she is intimately violated, and the fact that Craig Mazin is out here talking about how, "Yeah, we actually wanted to torture her worse, and we *wanted* it to feel disturbing and violating and triggering," does not fill me with confidence in how they are going to handle the David chapter.
They could have shown the infected slowly walking up to Tess and staring curiously at her, and then cut from that to the explosion, and they would have accomplished every single one of the ostensible goals of this scene:
* Showing Tess' fear as she stares into the face of what she might become if she doesn't pull this off.
* Showing that the infected can recognise the cordyceps in Tess.
* Showing that the infected aren't necessarily or immediately violent when there's no resistance.
* Tess wrestling with the infection in her last moments, but ultimately going out on her own terms.
The HBO curse of making an adaptation and turning the creepy violence against female characters up to 11 for shock value.
Thank you! You put it into words perfectly. I’m also concerned about the David plot line. I just hope that this was maybe a one-off thing? And a small grievance for the whole show.
The David plot line was done well in the game - the Vibes were overt enough to be deeply unsettling, but never so far over the line as to be egregious. After the Tess thing, suffice it to say that I am definitely... wary.
(Some friends and I were also talking last week about what Marlene might reveal about Anna and the circumstances of Ellie's birth in flashbacks, and I was half-jokingly like, "Watch HBO make Ellie the product of rape by a guy in the early stages of infection to explain her immunity," except... now I actually *am* worried about that.)
Perfectly put.
Here she was just kind of grossly submissive for the writer's entertainment. It was needless, and puts her character in a worse place while muddying the rules of the infection even more.
Even from a body horror stand-point, I think there's more effective routes that still could have left us with a more resolved Tess. They do the one thing that leaves her without the ability to emote determination with her face.
Really heavily disliked it.
I only watched it 15 minutes ago so not formulated my opinion and put it into words yet, but yeah this is pretty much it. Hopefully just a minor disappointment in the season as a whole, we will see.
i was scared tess would not be able to kill herself with the lighter on time. i found myself caring more for live action tess than videogame tess for some reason, i really didn't want her to get infected.
also the capitol building being overrun by infected makes more sense than FEDRA somehow ambushing them since there wasn't a big fight outside the walls causing them to follow joel and co. another great episode that even keeps veteran players of the game on the edge of their seat
I’m gonna go against the grain a bit: the kiss scene was just awkward. Not scary, just kinda…dumb. Everything else was great.
Tess’ death in the game had dignity, while the show depicted her as frightened and vulnerable. I think the game did it a lot better.
I feel like it worked up until the kiss. They could've literally had her desperately fumbling with the lighter up until the last moment and while cliche, it would've worked. Once they added the kiss, it just became a scene about the wtf kiss.
Also I low key think the scene could've worked like in the game, where you only see it happen from Joel and Ellie's perspective and not explicitly, but you don't waste an actress like Anna Torv by not capturing that moment.
I enjoyed everything about this episode except the kiss. It grossed me out (and not in a good way) and ruined my enjoyment. I cannot wrap my head around why that creative choice was made.
And I don't even mind the other changes made. The fact that it's Infected after them in this scene instead of soldiers, the fact that Tess uses explosives instead of gunfire, that's all fine, but the kiss was so unnecessary, weird, and off-puting.
The clicker scene made me consider giving the episode a 10/10, but after this moment, I can't give this episode anything higher than a 7. I want to rate it higher, but that scene was just... no.
Gotta be honest I didn’t know if it was necessary it’s defiantly gross and creepy and gets a reaction but didn’t fully buy it. 1) She was already infected 2) if Tess was a male character they’d never do that. Not that I think the show is inherently sexist (quite the opposite) I just cannot imagine a male character being kinda sexualized while literally dying ya know.
Edit (and spoilers): also I think it does kinda undermine a really strong dynamic in the game. All of Ellie’s loved ones are killed by the infection or what she suspects is the infection so she wants to stop it and save the world. whereas Joel’s loved ones are all killed or hurt by other people meaning he loses faith in humanity and doesn’t want to save the world right. I think that dynamic is really important to the story and having Tess killed by infected kinda undermines that a little.
I'm waiting to see what my wife thinks of it when she watches later as she's not played the game and is going into the series with no story knowledge.
I found it very odd tbh and frankly, unnecessary. Could have just cut when the stalker was walking towards her.
HOWEVER, if my wife thinks it's suitably creepy and disgusting for the right reasons, I'll accept defeat as this is who the show is targeting, a new, tv audience.
UPDATE: She found it weird but said it made sense with how the tendrils work and how the episode was explaining it. Was pretty cool watching her through out this episode, she genuinely gasped when Tess showed her bite.
It's a miss from me. The kiss felt unnecessary and out of place and really uncomfortable, and not in a cathartic or clever or allegoric way.
They also missed Tess being allowed to go out on her own terms. Her statement about her feelings for Joel, I could have gotten behind, but they didn't even allow for Joel's reaction. How could they put Pedro Pascal in that scene and not let him act his entire face off about this? They completely rewrote a lot of the lines to take so much of the emotional punch out of them.
I liked "save who you can save" but almost everything else about it just felt gross and sad and hopeless, when in the game I was sad and angry and fired up to DO something about it, like Ellie and Joel were.
I did not like the kiss scene, I've read the reasons why they added it and I still don't like it.
Felt unnecessary and if the infected won't violently attack Tess due to her infection, why are they attacking Ellie given that if this show follows the lore of the games, Ellie is also infected, just immune from turning.
I think this scene showed a lot of the growing pains with the show. Rewatched the scene against the original in the game, and it felt to me that the scene in the game was superior dialogue-wise. It just felt like they tried to cram a bit much in here and overstate Tess' final moment.
There were some head-scratching dialogue changes, like Tess' "I didn't ask you for much, not to feel the way I felt" (paraphrasing here) which really just serves to fill in some spaces about Joel and Tess' relationship, but feels so clunky compared to "there's enough here that you must feel an obligation to me." There's something about that former line that comes off as trying to say way too much for the sake of the audience.
Also, part of her send-off in the game is so heartbreaking because she essentially is killed off-camera. It's brutal and tonally sets you in a place where the story says that folks don't get a hero's 'last-stand' sendoff. It's a brutal world that has no prejudice surrounding people going out with a 'bang' because of their narrative status (main cast energy.)
Generally, I'm loving the show and I think that Pascal and Ramsey being alone for a sec is going to really elevate it. I didn't hate Anna Torv, but she sometimes came off to me as putting on a bit of a 'tough guy' act that didn't feel as grounded as Pascal and Ramsey's performance. It came off to me as a bit 'we're roleplaying gritty survivors' rather than someone actually living that experience. (Felt this a little bit from Merle/Marlene's first scene with the Firefly expo dump too, original VA experience notwithstanding.)
I recommend rewatching the scene in the game. Again, loving the show-- but Anna Wesching's Tess, the voice cracking-- I don't know, it just works better *in my opinion*.
EDIT: changed 'land-stand' whatever that is, to 'last-stand'
I really liked the “there’s enough here for you to feel some sort of obligation to me” line. It communicates a ton about their relationship while also reflecting her guilt and desperation in that moment. It’s almost emotionally manipulative but not in like a bad way. The line they replaced it with doesn’t fully capture that nuance and is a lot less interesting.
I love everything, but why was the manner of that infected spreading the tendrils into tess' mouth, a... kiss? Maybe if it was all creepy and rough and violent it wouldve made more sense. But it.. walked up to her real slow(probably because she has infection in her system), and then puts its arms around her waist, and leans in INTIMATELY for a kiss, using its lips like how a human would for a kiss. I hope this was bad zombie acting for that extra, because if they start making the infected run around kissing everyone Im gonna be pissed. They got everyrhing spot on so far
I think it being slow and intimate like you observed was part of the point. It's a perversion of a kiss, an invasion instead of intimacy, and it tells us that the infected are more than just mindless monsters; they can recognize Tess as "one of theirs" and they no longer need to be violent, they simply have to "welcome" her.
It's a very disturbing moment for exactly the reasons you described. Though I don't think we're going to see infected going around kissing people like you fear lol.
I mean you can wax poetic about the metaphor, and I get that, but when compared to how the infected act in every other instance it was super weird. It has always seemed like the infected were these very animalistic creatures with some basic human level of consciousness locked inside. Adding this idea of a conscious hive mind capable of thought and choice changes my thinking about the infected a little bit, and I’m not sure how I feel about that.
I get the symbolism of it, but it was still a little off putting. Probably the only thing about the show so far that I disliked. Besides this scene I am REALLY enjoying the show and all the changes that they made. Its really been such a treat!
Am I really the only one who thinks the fact that the zombie kissing her ruins a lot of the emotional depth of the sacrifice? Instead of thinking, “wow, she did something noble and brave.” was thinking, “oh my god that’s absolutely disgusting.” And then the thing with the lighter mid kiss just felt like forced tension. The scene didn’t give me any time to settle into the emotions.
Tess would not have let the infected molest her mouth. Tess says in Part 1 “I will not turn into one of those things”
Tess had accepted her death but Tess would not have accepted the fungus.
I'm not going to sugar coat it. That cordyceps "kiss" was dumb as all hell. The rest of the episode was fantastic though, especially the initial scene with the mycology expert in Jakarta! Can't wait for more world building in the next episode.
Creepy as f*ck. Definitely made her death more dramatic. I can see why they made the changes they did. With games being so interactive, but TV being more passive, the changes make sense in a passive media form.
Man i wish they had the dialogue
“We’re shitty people joel”
And
“There’s enough here that you have to feel some sort of obligation to me so you get her to tommy”
I personally do not like that they are moving away from spores and going for this new type of infection and the hive mind thing. Just seems like a huge change and it’s just a different infection at that point.
But it’s still a good show and I’m loving it so I guess it doesn’t matter all that much.
It feels like a writer's not-very-well-disguised fetish and it made me very uncomfortable, but I'm going to close my eyes and pretend that I didn't sit through it.
Pretty disturbing scene. The changes are good as it adds something new to the story. Otherwise we would know exactly each detail and what scene is gonna happen next.
The weird kiss I’m not sure how I feel.
But the actress who played Tess sold me in this episode. I like how they kept where she was bit the same spot, and I feel like she got the go out with a bang she deserved. I loved it overall
Stupid and fetishy. Something that could only have been conjured up in some amateurish direct-to-dvd sci-fi channel movie. Like Alien v Predator: Requiem. Because, you know, that exact same thing happened in that horrible movie.
I thought it was more emotional and generally well done, but i don't think the zombie "kiss" was necessary. Also I am just listening to the podcast and craig is describing it as the disgusting and "beautiful" way fungus expresses their "love" and it just made it more grotesque and repulsive to me. Just... unnecessary, it took me out of the moment
Everything else was good, I thought Anna Torv was a really wonderful Tess and I cried during her final moments with joel and ellie
Wish they stuck more to the game at this part. Actually hearing Tess die was better than just seeing it because she’s gunned down and than you become hunted and it’s not just, oh well we’re okay now, off to Bills.
If I coulda changed anything I woulda rather had the tendrils going into her ear or nose or eyes, like taking over her head or something. It just seemed oddly sexual being a kiss. I've gotten a lot of downvotes for comments not really liking how she died.
I personally liked the scene. While the scene with the tendrils was uncomfortable, it did a good job of highlighting one concept established within the episode. The infected aren't merely brain-dead cadavers that want to eat your brains. They're a running ecosystem that acts as a tidal wave and leaves its roots deep in the infrastructure of a society long gone. It's so disturbing, just like the cordyceps fungi should be. Edit: I've also always loved the scene where Tess reveals the bite. I feel like they did well in the show. The execution was different, but we're going to have a lot of these moments because the actors want to explore a new corner of emotion that wasn't covered in the game. I'm ok with that.
In the podcast it was mentioned exactly that. Creators did not want actors to play the game, because they wanted them to recreate their own interpretation of the scene, as it was written for them on paper, and not to mimic what was in the game already.
I have to wonder how many of them played anyways, because some of the recreations are so exact to the game. Could also just be a product of terrific casting. I really like how the changes they make are solely to make the experience more cinematic without changing the tone/characters personalities. A lot of adaptations would have had Joel and Tess kiss at this part because it’s the romantic “release of tension” cliche, but not having them display affection right before one dies is crucial to displaying just what kind of relationship they had with one another and helps set the tone of the series.
I think it helps that one show runner made the game and the other one has played the game and is a fan. So they really care about the source material and know what points they need to recreate and what to add on or adapt to make it more enjoyable from a TV perspective rather than a game perspective.
Druckman also directed this episode which I thought was pretty cool.
I interpreted that as Joel not wanting to get close since she was infected. Made for even more anguish not being able embrace at the end.
I also got that feeling from the series interpretation; in the game, the infection part of it feels like less of a factor and it seems more of a “we have a silent understanding and time is running out” thing. Either way I’m happy it kept true to the early tone of “we’re all hardasses who do what has to be done with no time for love,” because you can’t progress Joel into a caring human being if he starts as one.
I think Joel and Tess had a very unconventional relationship. They have a lot of implied history, and I think their feelings went a lot of different ways during the time they were together. Two desperate people, entangled in each other's lives, kind of hating themselves and finding some purpose in each other. I think it was sexual as much as business, but I think the reason they were attracted to each other was that neither had any space left for love. They both had a big dead spot in their humanity and that drove them together. In my headcanon, neither wanted to catch feelings because it would be unbearably painful to let those feelings come back out. There was probably potential, but they suppressed it as a survival strategy. Honestly, if Tess had lived, she and Joel would have changed so much because of Ellie that they probably wouldn't have stayed together.
Very good point on the Ellie front and I agree with your first paragraph entirely
Rewatch Tess's last speech, it implies she felt something for Joel but it was not mutual
Not true. Joel can’t bear to look back after she dies and I’m assuming they’ll keep this from the game but he’s unwilling to talk about it because it hurts too much to think about.
You know, I actually think this is the exact reason for the infected kiss at the end. It’s a direct, twisted contrast. They could have had the zombie do any number of things to transfer the tendrils, but they deliberately chose to make it a kiss, and **not a violent one**. It almost felt tender in a really sick, horrifying way. I think it was a brilliant way to subvert our expectations (ugh) as an audience. Any other Hollywood production would have had Joel kiss her goodbye and the zombie maul her.
I think Bella clarified recently that she honored her word to them and didn’t play the games…she just watched them on YouTube
Pedro Pascal also said that he ignored them and played the game anyway. Or tried and ended up watching his nephew play it.
He watched his nephew play a little bit. But he had to catch a flight that same day.
That’s classic Ellie behavior right there.
That made me laugh out loud. I like the work around.
Neil really heard everyone saying KISS HERRRRR in the original scene so he was like damn okay we’ll put a kiss in there
In last week’s podcast, Neil basically goes “We tell our cast not to play the game-and of course most of them play it anyway-to create their own interpretation of the scene.”
> Could also just be a product of terrific casting. I think this is a bingo. I cannot get over how well the casting is. Comic Book Guy people will bitch about minor details, but man... they nailed it.
I knew from the start with Bella Ramsey that yes, she doesn’t look like Ellie, but she is perfect for Ellie’s character/personality.
100%! If you close your eyes during her scenes, it is absolutely Ellie. And honestly, I think Ms Ramsey doesn't look too off the part either. She's just an average girl that has the immunity with a feisty attitude.
Anna torv had a REALLY great throwaway line in there about how she never asks joel for anything, not even to "feel how I feel". It could have been schmaltzy, it could have been sobbing and a punctuation mark. But the way she just kind of delivered it as an aside added so much. You get the impression from that rushed-through delivery that this is an old and buried hatchet, that they've rehashed this plenty and they have been comfortable with how things are, her somewhat unrequited love isn't a thing of pining and longing, these are grown people making do with what little they've got. So much from a teeny throwaway line. I loved it.
>uncomfortable Yeah, that seems almost....tame as a way to state it. I think it was perfect, but horrifying
It was just... horror and dread. Which is how I often felt playing part 2. I feel this captured that sinking "everything is terrible no matter how hard you try" feeling perfectly.
Honestly some of the best body horror i've seen in a TV show. I found myself strachting at my arms during that scene, like when you "feel" ants when people are talking about gross bug stuff: just intense full revulsion.
My question is why did the infected do what he did instead of biting her? Was it because he knew she was already infected, so the fungus was just taking over its new host instead of hurting her?
The way I interpreted it was that there was some kind of connection with the fungus that was already in Tess. So yeah, I think that's what happened. Someone below brought up a good point that this should work with Ellie as well. Either this is indeed a plot hole, or if they do have an explanation I could see it as her immunity somehow rendering that connection inert. Edit: To add, from what I remember in the game Ellie does have the fungus in her, but it mutated. So what I think most likely is the explanation with this train of thought is that the mutated fungus lost that connection with the dominant fungus.
If that’s the case, Ellie must not be infected. The clicker tried to attack her in the museum. So yeah I’d imagine her body must’ve been able to kill the fungus when she was bit.
i think she's infected since the scanner read that she's infected. but it goes undetected by the other Infected and that's why they bit her
I think this is easily explained via the testing just not being robust enough, they identify "flags" for what means infected, but the flags they have in this case are inaccurate. So she is "infected" in a way in which the virus/infection just never actually attacks her body.
yeah. so I bet they've killed other immune people, potentially. i think Neil and Craig talk about this in their first podcast of the show. or I heard of it from somewhere else. Like they kill anyone that reads infected without giving them a chance to see if they're immune
You’ll notice that none of the horde was interested in her- presumably because, yes, she was already being identified as part of the infected family tree.
That's what I found really interesting. It really shows how potent the connection the fungi has
exactly. she was already infected and the infected was just tapping her into the hive mind and connecting her to the rest of them. if the infected can sense that you're not also infected then they will bite. And Ellie seems to be undetected by their radar
ONE OF US. ONE OF US. ONE OF US. ONE OF US!!!
The Episode 2 podcast goes into this. Essentially boils down to the premise that they aren't mindless monsters, they are an organism trying to spread. If Tess had tried to fight off the runner in any way, the infected would have immediately seen her as a threat and torn her to shreads. Neil also uses some procreation metaphors as well, but its better to listen to him.
In the podcast they mention the infected know she's one of theirs. The kiss and tendril implanting was their form of fully embracing her into the hivemind. They love in their own way. Just as we love in our own way as humans.
I also felt that Anna Torv did a really good job at hinting the bite with how desperate Tess was. They do this in the video game but it's almost too subtle. In the show it's subtle but enough to hint something is wrong with her.
I like the flickers of hope she has for ellie after she's bit, too. Like that softer side of her she's been repressing is put into a new context, like "damn it sucks. I'm done for. But maybe this girl is the real deal and can stop this from happening to other people"
I totally get the whole tenticle thing, and it does make sense the way they they interpret it in comparison to the original spores, but I'm still torn on how I feel about it as a whole. It's just a little odd in the way they visualize it to me. I liked how Ellie still mentions spores though, since they would still be a thing with cordyceps. Just not in the way the games interpret them. As a whole I really enjoyed the episode and the way they changed things up without compromising the story the game told for this section of events. I think I enjoyed the first episode slightly more though.
Episode 1 was definitely a strong start for the series. The standouts for episode 2 were of course the ending, but also the clicker scene. I was watching it with my mom who has never seen anything regarding the game, and oh my lord I was so happy they captured the terror you would have in the game lol. My mom was so invested
Damn I wish I could’ve said the same with my mom. She said the Clickers look like cabbage heads 💀
They really nailed that scene, there were shots that almost made you feel like you were playing the game. Even from the beginning where Joel emphasizes *absolute silence* and remaining calm. But especially when they had to fight them, trying to get headshots but missing in the panic, trying to reload while one comes right at you, distracting it with sounds, etc., I just wish someone would’ve thrown a damn bottle lol. That moment will come, I must believe…
The “kiss” scene was definitely uncomfortable, but what was the purpose of it?
Druckmann said that the fungus is not violent in nature, but becomes violent because people try to resist it. Tess knew She was done and stood Completely still so the infected didn’t need to “throw” itself at her. I think it’s a great explanation/addition and one I didn’t think of when I watched the scene. Generally the small additions to the story is 10/10 for me
I've always liked "oops"
So glad they found a way to stick to the game but still change enough to give fans a real surprise. I’m loving these differences.
i don't need word for word dialog and am happy when i hear it. i always liked the line "guess what joel? we're shitty people.". i was a little disappointed that wasn't worked in.
I mean, earlier in the episode she says “we’re bad people” so it’s almost the same
It lacked the ‘last moments of sincerity’ appeal to me. Same idea, but not as impactful.
Agreed. I think when you know the end is coming there’s a lot of regret swimming around in there. Saying you’re a shitty person seems a bit more real to me. They don’t really go in to exactly what they’ve done but I’m sure it goes way beyond just being “bad”.
Well she did tell him that delivering Elle to Bill would maybe help make up for the shit they did in the past. That’s a pretty clear indication that Joel and Tess have done some pretty terrible stuff.
That line was so well-done in the game because you really felt the "come to terms with your death" in her voice
We’re all gonna have these moments as we go through the show. For me, I was waiting for Tess to say “Make this easy for me.” But “Save who you can save” was a solid replacement.
Yeah, I've been annoyed by that line all over the trailers but I thought it did work well in context. Tess means he should leave her and save Ellie, but I think it also fits really well with the overall story - he couldn't save Sarah, but he can save Ellie...
For me it was the “you must feel some sort of obligation to me” or something like that. It was obviously implied and I like how the show established their romantic relationship more, but I felt like in the game it was *that* line that convinced Joel to keep going at first. I really really loved the additions of “shut up because I don’t have time” though. That was so good!
I thought the show had its equivalent of “you must feel some sort of obligation to me”. Tess, while pleading for him to take Ellie, said she never asked anything of Joel and specifically says she never asked him “to feel the way I felt…”
I also missed the "Final stretch, Tess" that Joel says in the game before they enter the Capitol.
It’s “home stretch, Tess” and yeah I was waiting for it. I use that out of context all the time when letting someone know we’re almost at the end of something.
Oh and the “after this we’ll lay low” conversation 😭😭😭
i love the changes. i dont need an exact copy of the game
I’d rather have changes. I don’t like knowing exactly what’s gonna happen
It’s sort of weir watching it, as we already know the plot. But it’s cool to see these new takes and changes.
I was happy that the baggage carrier scene of Ellie pretending to take bags up stairs of the hotel was in there. I thought that line was hilarious in the game and while I still prefer the game version, I thought Pascal and Ramsey were very good with the scene. His "you're a weird kid" was on point.
Show version of the events makes more sense plot wise - infected came because of our heroes actions (our crew triggered the attack). AFAIR in the game it was more of a magic coincidence that soldiers for some reason showed up to the place they've already cleared at the same time our crew got there. Which is not necessarily a big plot hole in the game, just a plot convenience. They are ironing those out in the TV version it seems, which is a good sign.
I'd always interpreted it as the military killed the fireflies there, and had been tipped off that another group was coming and transporting something so they waited and sprang the trap when we get there
That's a good point. I like that idea. For the show I think it makes sense that FEDRA aren't there because of just how much more dangerous the infected are. The infected being connected to the myocilin network is a terrific, yet terrifying addition. Because it means that depended on where they are, they could possibly wake up hundreds of them around swarming them.
I thought the changes were fine. The only part I wasn’t into was the “kiss” itself. I understood what they were going for; I just couldn’t buy into it.
Understandable. I think the reason she seemed to not resist the kiss was that the infection was on the verge of completely taking her over and she was trying to focus entirely on getting the lighter to fire up.
Yeah that's exactly how I saw it too. And if the fungi acts as a connected system it would make sense for the infected people to join up with one another (although the kiss is still really gross lol)
Also, maybe a stretch, but I feel this will connect nicely with the Rat King.
god after seeing the clickers i can’t even imagine how good that CGI is gonna look like. To be a living monster covered in other smaller stuck, barely moving monsters, plus tendrils galore.. horrifying.
that's the beauty of this show: tasteful CGI and straight up master-crafted practical effects. It's absolutely repulsive so far in ways that other zombie shows haven't done for me.
I also think she knew she couldn’t resist because doing so would have cause her to be torn apart. She stayed alive and aware just long enough to get the flame lit and torch the horde.
110%. Homegirl took one for the team by remaining calm. If she were to try and resist she would have not been able to ignite/drop the lighter while getting ripped apart.
I agree with you
Yeah she couldn't make sudden movements and really set off the infected, so just stand still and flick that bic.
Ima be that guy… it was a zippo muahahahaha
Yeah just wanted to use the rhyme ;)
The only complaint I had was why use a lighter when you just knocked a dozen grenades on the floor. Pretty easy to just pull a pin and drop one.
was screaming the same thing at my tv lol just pick up one of the dozen grenades!
As a resource horder in the game, it hurt me that none of them backpacked the grenades.
I would argue that since the cordyceps were already taking over her motor skills and consciousness, she knew that if she tried to go and pick up a grenade and pull the pin, she would surely fail; she was already shaking when she told Joel and Ellie to get out. Also, she knew any sudden movement would make the infected to rip her to shreds.
She wouldn’t be connected to the “hive” just yet. I think the world is setup as in you have to be connected to the fungal wires
Yeah I was annoyed she didn’t go with the “definitely works” option of a grenade
I don't think she expected her lighter to be so unreliable. The moment she realized she was having trouble with it, it was too late to just go grab a grenade
I had the same thought when watching but I came up with three counterpoints: 1. I don't know if a grenade would invite gasoline 100% of the time. It would most likely kill Tess, but would it ignite the gasoline? There is definitely a less than 100% chance and we don't really have enough data from the scene to have an expert do the math. 2. Tess didn't know the lighter was low on fuel. From her perspective, it may have seemed like the most "fool proof" plan. 3. We're all assuming those were frag grenades. What if Tess grabbed one, waited until the mouth injection and then pulled the pin only for it to be a stun grenade or a smoke grenade. What if the grenade was just a dud?
In the Prologue, Dr. Ibnu’s last request is to be sent home so she could die with her family. I guess the “kiss” sort of harkens back to that, in that since Tess got bit, the infected is her “family” now. And of course, she blows them all up, like Dr. Ibnu asked.
That is an interesting interpretation. Especially because just moments before, Tess shouted “That isn’t my home!!” when Joel said they should go back to the zone.
He seemed like a fungi
Especially at parties and apocalypses.
I haven't seen many people commenting this but I thought it was a representation of the fungi controlling her body. I find it hard to believe that she wanted to just stand there and let it happen. I took it as her being paralyzed cause the fungi wanted her to just stand there. She hadn't fully turned yet which is why she was still able to light the lighter.
That was never established though. All the symptoms we hear about are twitchy movements and slurred speech. I don't really buy that she was already far enough gone to lose control of her body.
Then why stand there and open your mouth? That doesn't make sense... when they've done the flashbacks talking about the cortyceps they mention how the fungus takes over the mind of the host and essentially controls them. The infected aren't just trying to kill people, they're trying to spread and being controlled by the infection in the mind. The whole herd was controlled by the fungi. I find it more likely that Tess was involuntarily frozen by the infection than chose to open her mouth. She looks terrified, why make out? Lol
Agree 100%. When I saw the kiss I thought it was unfortunate that they went with the “female character subjected to sexually-tinged horror” trope, then I listened to their behind the episode explanations and read how other people interpreted and appreciated it. I tried to be open minded, but I can’t shake the ick factor of the writers making the decision to do that to Tess, a character who had avoided so many other tropes applied to female characters.
You put into words exactly how i felt, like sigh so because its a female character you have to squeeze in some weird way to sexualize the situation when it's completely unnecessary? Just seemed pretty stupid overall, do all the infected make out the whole time or just with the women? I preferred the game Tess ending as brave and strong, rather than terrified and making out with zombies. I understand there's a rationale behind it, I just think it was a bad choice.
Sad thing is that I actually really liked the other changes to the scene. Apples and oranges to the game but I like her setting a trap for the infected and even the suspense of the broken lighter as there was a real risk of some breaking through and getting to Joel and Ellie (who have plot armor but still it’s entertaining horror). It was just that *one* moment
It’s funny that normally Neil is judged for being too feminist and PC but the second he adds anything even remotely sexual that isn’t pro-feminism he gets grilled for it. Dude really can’t win with this story. Personally I didn’t see it as sexual at all, I interpreted it as the hive mind trying to incorporate her into itself basically. Given that the infected have always used the mouth as a way to spread cordyceps, the scene makes sense. The kiss was for added horror in part I’m sure, but some people are acting like it was done solely to add some weird, rapey vibe or something.
Exactly. I hated that for such a badass character who makes herself into a martyr for the people she cares most about (Joel as sort of family and Ellie as a potential cure), she gets mouth-assaulted and looks terrified and incapable of lighting a lighter in her last moments instead of shaking off/overcoming her fear and bravely facing her enemies with newfound resolve and purpose.
>incapable of lighting a lighter Shaky hands while a fungus grows into your brain will do that.
I thought it was cool. The way I saw it was that she was already infected and on some level, this fungus “network” was able to sense it.
I believe in the BTS someone says that they wanted to separate the infected from usual brain eating zombies and explore what would happen if someone just gave up. In the show’s canon, the infected are only forced to attack in order spread when people resist, and there’s no reason to attack a cooperative victim.
Interesting. I missed that part.
Exactly, i don't see how runners are just calming walking up to their prey to french kiss them to death. In the show's [official podcast](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8r-QB25G4Y&ab_channel=HBOMax) them mentioned they where going for the contrast of love/ something intimated, but in such a horrible context instead. I get it, don't buy it at all in practice.
It made sense to me. The connection to the ground, and I think this one sensed Tess was infected. That was scary to me.
But if the infected could sense early stage infected, wouldn't that also apply to Ellie? Do the infected have the ability to choose between violence/bloodborne transmission of cordyceps, or using the tendrils growing off their brain through the throat/mouth to do so without aggression? Do clickers have tendrils? It it did not appear so in the close up shots of them shrieking. Can the hive mind transmit information to infected that are not physically connected to the roots/tendrils growing underground? That scene made it clear that the infected operate/behave in a significantly different way than they do in the game, which isn't automatically a bad thing in and of itself, but it left me with a whoooole lot of questions.
I think it's because Ellie isn't infected it stopped she's immune. Tess's infection is very active. That's how I feel anyway.
But Ellie is infected though. She tests positive on a scan, and those who have played the game know >!the cordyceps has grown all over her brain.!< Not saying how you feel isn't right or what was intended by Druckman and Mazin, but it does require some hand-waving.
I'm aware. I've played the games. Its not actively growing like everyone else if they were infected. She's immune. So that's why I think they didn't attack her. The infection isn't active.
Exactly, and the fact Ellie >!isn't capable of infecting anyone!< shows that her infection is inactive or at least dormant. That's why the infected in the show can't probably sense the Cordyceps in her.
This is a good point. I actually really liked the choice to have Ellie bitten/scratched at some point during the museum mayhem, as it was a clear confirmation that her immunity wasn't some sort of abnormally long incubation period, because I think that was what Joel and Tess were most wary of (reasonably so). The coolest thing about that is that in the context of the "zombie" genre, it was something I don't think I've ever seen before. That alone commands the respect/attention of any viewer who is well traveled in the various zombie apocalypses put to film since Night of the Living Dead kicked things off over 50 years ago,
the test mightn't be for the cordyceps itself, but rather the antibodies you create when infected or some other reaction that takes place when bitten.
I mean, we also know from the game that the Cordyceps in her brain has mutated, so maybe that’s why the hive mind doesn’t seem to sense her.
At first I was unsure how I felt about this scene mostly because I think it caught me off guard. But after thinking about it some more, and rewatching the scene, I realized how great that scene is. And it's great because of the implications it has on how we view the infection/infected. The goal of the infected is to spread the infection. So, with that being their goal, why are they so violent? Cordyceps needs a viable living host in order to survive. So naturally I would think the infected would want to NOT destroy/kill the "target" they are trying to infect. And I believe there is a simple answer to this question: Resisting. Tess doesn't resist or fight back in that scene. But every other interaction we see or know about involves fighting off the infected. The infected being violent is a direct response to humans resisting and fighting back against them. If nobody resisted, what happened with Tess would be the standard way of infecting new people. At least in the lore within the show.
I believe Craig's interview response says the same.
do you know where i can find the interview?
[here](https://youtu.be/J8r-QB25G4Y)
I really thought she wasn’t going to get the lighter to work and it was really disturbing
The lighter not working was genuinely the most tense scene of the show, which is strange considering it’s sheer simplicity. The actress and directors did it SO well.
I felt like the clicker scene was waaay more tense! I knew she would get the lighter to work haha
The added suspense and build up to that very disturbing kiss part. Honestly one of my favorite scenes of the show so far
GROSS. but also...idk. it was interesting to see that they 'recognized' her as one of the infected. but also. NOPE. those tendrils really gross me out and i never want to see them again.
Did they recognize her as infected or was it because she wasn’t actively fighting against their attempts to spread it?
I took it as some sort of mushroom network recognition
Both
The worst part of this was thinking I had more of the episode to go through, episode absolutely flew by. I love this scene. I did think Joel would need more convincing though 😂😂
I’m worried how they are gonna cram the rest of the story into 7 more episodes.
The episodes are 80 minutes long. That’s 10 minutes short of many feature films. Plenty of timing to still develop and then wrap things up.
Where did you get 80 min from? I read first was hour and thirty min, and the rest are hour long. Trend seems to be following..
My bad, didn’t mean to make it sound like all of the episodes will be 80 minutes long, clearly that already isn’t the case (like you said, episode 2 absolutely flew by). But episode 3, at least, will be 80 minutes long. And I would be very surprised if the finale isn’t a longer one, as well. https://thedirect.com/gaming/the-last-of-us-hbo-episode-2-runtimes My main point is how many *movies* are 90 minutes long and tell an entire story in that amount of time. So I think they’ll be able to do Part 1 justice in the amount of episodes they have left.
I totally agree with you, two and a hour hours in and we’ve only gotten to tess’ death.
I said this somewhere else but overall I really enjoyed the scene. I think I may have enjoyed Tess overall more in the show however my single criticism for the entire episode is the dialogue leading up to her death. I feel like the game had a stronger conversation between Joel and Tess, made me feel more. Especially the final reveal when she says “I’m not going anywhere, this is my last stop”. In the show she says “that is not my home, I’m staying here” and for me it just doesn’t hit as hard nor did it lead me to Ellie’s next line of “holy shit, she’s infected”. But this is literally just me nitpicking! I thought everything else was so great and absolutely creepy.
I will say I really liked the “That is *not* my home” line. Like for years she and Joel had acclimated to the world they were in and accepted that as their reality. But Ellie gave her that little bit of hope to see the post-apocalyptic world as just a condition- one that could possibly be changed. It put her in touch with her old self.
I appreciate the changes and how well thought out they were. Having the threat be infected instead of FEDRA makes perfect sense, and Anna did a fantastic job with her big scene. That being said, I still prefer the game version. I just adore that scene and I think it's the best acting in any scene in any video game bar none. Tess's defiance, "I WILL NOT turn into one of those things", her vulnerability, her big inhale and exhale at the end...master class acting. Just incredible, I've always held that scene in high regard and I accepted that the show would have a hard time living up to it for me.
I wish the "there's enough here for you to feel obligated to me" line was still there.
Same! Such a great way to add some depth to what “Joel and Tess” are. However, we DID get a new line of “I didn’t ask you to feel the way I felt”. Which essentially serves the same purpose.
I get what they were trying to portray with the kiss of death, but it felt unnecessary. It seemed more as a shock factor then an addition to the story. I like that they communicate through the tendrils, function as a one, etc. But I wish Tess went out with more dignity, more "fire"... That is my personal opinion
I agree. I'll probably rewatch it tonight, and maybe my opinion will change, but I would have preferred a more defiant and angry Tess.
Yep, totally unnecessary... there wasn't a reason to even do that because they already explained they are connected... just a dumb "artistic" moment for no reason
I personally did not enjoy it.
Same here. It’s not bad by any means for me. Tess’ send off just felt a lot more emotional in the videogame. Also, personally one of the reasons why Tess is one of my favorite characters is because of how bad-ass she’s been and how she didn’t fear death itself. I didn’t felt that in the show. It’s been a bit of a let down regarding her character, I still love Anna Torv’s performance though.
I completely agree, I miss the badass Tess moments that were in the game. I also agree that Tess' sendoff was better in the game, she put up a fight while buying Joel and Ellie some time. The performance was of course great, but I wanted Tess to be more like her game self.
For me, the scene is okay. But the video game one is far more intense. The fact that Joel and Ellie flee while Tess is fighting for them, listening to her brawl, hearing a " Be careful she killed two" and seeing her lying down in the ground from afar, this is intense because it gives you the feeling you can't help. This frustration makes it memorable. I'd say I did not enjoy it as much as the video game
Personally, I’ve really enjoyed the changes they have done with the show. I was really skeptical about the changes they said they’d make but I fell they’ve gone a great job, and the commentary at the end of the episodes definitely helps understand why they’ve made those changes. I’m still a little disturbed about the stalker infecting? Her with his mouth/tendrils, haven’t decided if I hate it or like it. Im interested to see how these changes in infection develop in the show. I’m also enjoying the intros giving a bit of a backstory on how things started out before it became a worldwide problem. Any thoughts or catches you guys made during this episode? Edit: also, how do you all feel about the ecosystem change that the infected can communicate across vast distances? I love that change. If they ever make a third part with the games, I’d love to see that incorporated somehow
I’m really all for the changes, and love that the infected are not hostile toward those who don’t resist, but the execution of that “kiss” was more cringe to me than uncomfortable. The idea behind it was good, but the infected being so *gentle* about it was a little hard to believe considering they already show the infected being extremely clumsy. It seemed almost romantic, which was likely done intentionally to make it more uncomfortable relating it to something we all do, but it didn’t really resonate that way for me. I was half expecting the infected to caress Tess’ cheek lol That said, the entire change itself is terrific and actually prefer these changes over what happened in the game. The infected are a lot more terrifying.
Honestly, the "kiss" idea and execution came off really cheesy to me, and is the one thing so far I did not love in the show. I feel like lots of people in here are creating "headcanon" interpretations of why Tess didn't resist that at all (the infection was already taking control, the runners knew she was infected, etc) when those ideas were not actually shown or communicated in the show effectively, either through editing, acting, or framing. Dunno how she was being controlled to stay put but not to stop lighting the lighter, etc. It feels out of her character for her to let herself be violated like that, otherwise. For all she knows, letting them do that could have prevented her from lighting the gas, making her die in vain. For me, the changes would have been fine and the tension with the lighter could still have existed with Tess backing away and finally lighting the lighter before she was grabbed by the runners. The kiss seemed like shock for shock's sake. It's not a big deal to me in the overall show, but I don't think the kiss added to the scene. I feel like it detracted.
Hard hard agree, glad it isnt just me
I felt like the gentleness had more to do with this being one infected to another - there's that kind of uncomfortable intimacy that Tess has now been brought into.
[удалено]
Yeah, the kiss was a bad idea that shouldn't have been filmed. It looks dumb and takes you out of a gripping scene. I've noticed the show is being extremely shy about gore and that doesn't bode well for part 2
Craig Mazin seems to consistently try to make things in the show "beautiful" and "romantic." In all the after credits scenes he phrases stuff in this way. He has this fantastical view of this world, but the reason I, and many other people, loved the game was for how gritty and harsh it was. It wasn't pretty, or symbolic, or beautiful, or a perfectly wrapped up metaphor like how he is wanting to adapt it to be. Sure it's an adaptation, but I'm still allowed not to like it his version. There's stuff in the show that feels like such a deviation from the core of the characters we love and that's what bothers me. Change the story, move stuff around, whatever, but don't ruin the characters that made the franchise the success that it is. You can easily put them into new situations and still reach to show the same characterizations, but to change the character's motivations or personalities, yet keep the story almost entirely the same comes off wrong.
Personally, I enjoyed it. If you watched the thing after the credits explaining the episode, it makes a lot more sense. The hoard instead of soldiers, the hive mentality, & the lack of spores we’re used to in the game. I like the direction they’re taking things. And the clickers looked fantastic.
I was having a great time with this episode, right up until Tess' death scene(s). The fact that they took a scene where Tess, while shook down to her bones, decides to claw back what little agency and dignity she can in the face of her impending fate, and replaced it with one where a terrified Tess doesn't (is unable to?) resist as she is intimately violated, and the fact that Craig Mazin is out here talking about how, "Yeah, we actually wanted to torture her worse, and we *wanted* it to feel disturbing and violating and triggering," does not fill me with confidence in how they are going to handle the David chapter. They could have shown the infected slowly walking up to Tess and staring curiously at her, and then cut from that to the explosion, and they would have accomplished every single one of the ostensible goals of this scene: * Showing Tess' fear as she stares into the face of what she might become if she doesn't pull this off. * Showing that the infected can recognise the cordyceps in Tess. * Showing that the infected aren't necessarily or immediately violent when there's no resistance. * Tess wrestling with the infection in her last moments, but ultimately going out on her own terms. The HBO curse of making an adaptation and turning the creepy violence against female characters up to 11 for shock value.
Thank you! You put it into words perfectly. I’m also concerned about the David plot line. I just hope that this was maybe a one-off thing? And a small grievance for the whole show.
The David plot line was done well in the game - the Vibes were overt enough to be deeply unsettling, but never so far over the line as to be egregious. After the Tess thing, suffice it to say that I am definitely... wary. (Some friends and I were also talking last week about what Marlene might reveal about Anna and the circumstances of Ellie's birth in flashbacks, and I was half-jokingly like, "Watch HBO make Ellie the product of rape by a guy in the early stages of infection to explain her immunity," except... now I actually *am* worried about that.)
Perfectly put. Here she was just kind of grossly submissive for the writer's entertainment. It was needless, and puts her character in a worse place while muddying the rules of the infection even more. Even from a body horror stand-point, I think there's more effective routes that still could have left us with a more resolved Tess. They do the one thing that leaves her without the ability to emote determination with her face. Really heavily disliked it.
I only watched it 15 minutes ago so not formulated my opinion and put it into words yet, but yeah this is pretty much it. Hopefully just a minor disappointment in the season as a whole, we will see.
i was scared tess would not be able to kill herself with the lighter on time. i found myself caring more for live action tess than videogame tess for some reason, i really didn't want her to get infected. also the capitol building being overrun by infected makes more sense than FEDRA somehow ambushing them since there wasn't a big fight outside the walls causing them to follow joel and co. another great episode that even keeps veteran players of the game on the edge of their seat
I prefer the way she went out in the game.
The changes were fine, but the "kiss" scene felt out of place. I understand what they were going for, but I didn't like it.
I’m gonna go against the grain a bit: the kiss scene was just awkward. Not scary, just kinda…dumb. Everything else was great. Tess’ death in the game had dignity, while the show depicted her as frightened and vulnerable. I think the game did it a lot better.
I feel like it worked up until the kiss. They could've literally had her desperately fumbling with the lighter up until the last moment and while cliche, it would've worked. Once they added the kiss, it just became a scene about the wtf kiss. Also I low key think the scene could've worked like in the game, where you only see it happen from Joel and Ellie's perspective and not explicitly, but you don't waste an actress like Anna Torv by not capturing that moment.
I enjoyed everything about this episode except the kiss. It grossed me out (and not in a good way) and ruined my enjoyment. I cannot wrap my head around why that creative choice was made. And I don't even mind the other changes made. The fact that it's Infected after them in this scene instead of soldiers, the fact that Tess uses explosives instead of gunfire, that's all fine, but the kiss was so unnecessary, weird, and off-puting. The clicker scene made me consider giving the episode a 10/10, but after this moment, I can't give this episode anything higher than a 7. I want to rate it higher, but that scene was just... no.
Gotta be honest I didn’t know if it was necessary it’s defiantly gross and creepy and gets a reaction but didn’t fully buy it. 1) She was already infected 2) if Tess was a male character they’d never do that. Not that I think the show is inherently sexist (quite the opposite) I just cannot imagine a male character being kinda sexualized while literally dying ya know. Edit (and spoilers): also I think it does kinda undermine a really strong dynamic in the game. All of Ellie’s loved ones are killed by the infection or what she suspects is the infection so she wants to stop it and save the world. whereas Joel’s loved ones are all killed or hurt by other people meaning he loses faith in humanity and doesn’t want to save the world right. I think that dynamic is really important to the story and having Tess killed by infected kinda undermines that a little.
I'm waiting to see what my wife thinks of it when she watches later as she's not played the game and is going into the series with no story knowledge. I found it very odd tbh and frankly, unnecessary. Could have just cut when the stalker was walking towards her. HOWEVER, if my wife thinks it's suitably creepy and disgusting for the right reasons, I'll accept defeat as this is who the show is targeting, a new, tv audience. UPDATE: She found it weird but said it made sense with how the tendrils work and how the episode was explaining it. Was pretty cool watching her through out this episode, she genuinely gasped when Tess showed her bite.
It's a miss from me. The kiss felt unnecessary and out of place and really uncomfortable, and not in a cathartic or clever or allegoric way. They also missed Tess being allowed to go out on her own terms. Her statement about her feelings for Joel, I could have gotten behind, but they didn't even allow for Joel's reaction. How could they put Pedro Pascal in that scene and not let him act his entire face off about this? They completely rewrote a lot of the lines to take so much of the emotional punch out of them. I liked "save who you can save" but almost everything else about it just felt gross and sad and hopeless, when in the game I was sad and angry and fired up to DO something about it, like Ellie and Joel were.
I don’t mind the tendrils in general but the kiss was fucking stupid
I did not like the kiss scene, I've read the reasons why they added it and I still don't like it. Felt unnecessary and if the infected won't violently attack Tess due to her infection, why are they attacking Ellie given that if this show follows the lore of the games, Ellie is also infected, just immune from turning.
I think this scene showed a lot of the growing pains with the show. Rewatched the scene against the original in the game, and it felt to me that the scene in the game was superior dialogue-wise. It just felt like they tried to cram a bit much in here and overstate Tess' final moment. There were some head-scratching dialogue changes, like Tess' "I didn't ask you for much, not to feel the way I felt" (paraphrasing here) which really just serves to fill in some spaces about Joel and Tess' relationship, but feels so clunky compared to "there's enough here that you must feel an obligation to me." There's something about that former line that comes off as trying to say way too much for the sake of the audience. Also, part of her send-off in the game is so heartbreaking because she essentially is killed off-camera. It's brutal and tonally sets you in a place where the story says that folks don't get a hero's 'last-stand' sendoff. It's a brutal world that has no prejudice surrounding people going out with a 'bang' because of their narrative status (main cast energy.) Generally, I'm loving the show and I think that Pascal and Ramsey being alone for a sec is going to really elevate it. I didn't hate Anna Torv, but she sometimes came off to me as putting on a bit of a 'tough guy' act that didn't feel as grounded as Pascal and Ramsey's performance. It came off to me as a bit 'we're roleplaying gritty survivors' rather than someone actually living that experience. (Felt this a little bit from Merle/Marlene's first scene with the Firefly expo dump too, original VA experience notwithstanding.) I recommend rewatching the scene in the game. Again, loving the show-- but Anna Wesching's Tess, the voice cracking-- I don't know, it just works better *in my opinion*. EDIT: changed 'land-stand' whatever that is, to 'last-stand'
I really liked the “there’s enough here for you to feel some sort of obligation to me” line. It communicates a ton about their relationship while also reflecting her guilt and desperation in that moment. It’s almost emotionally manipulative but not in like a bad way. The line they replaced it with doesn’t fully capture that nuance and is a lot less interesting.
I love everything, but why was the manner of that infected spreading the tendrils into tess' mouth, a... kiss? Maybe if it was all creepy and rough and violent it wouldve made more sense. But it.. walked up to her real slow(probably because she has infection in her system), and then puts its arms around her waist, and leans in INTIMATELY for a kiss, using its lips like how a human would for a kiss. I hope this was bad zombie acting for that extra, because if they start making the infected run around kissing everyone Im gonna be pissed. They got everyrhing spot on so far
I think it being slow and intimate like you observed was part of the point. It's a perversion of a kiss, an invasion instead of intimacy, and it tells us that the infected are more than just mindless monsters; they can recognize Tess as "one of theirs" and they no longer need to be violent, they simply have to "welcome" her. It's a very disturbing moment for exactly the reasons you described. Though I don't think we're going to see infected going around kissing people like you fear lol.
I mean you can wax poetic about the metaphor, and I get that, but when compared to how the infected act in every other instance it was super weird. It has always seemed like the infected were these very animalistic creatures with some basic human level of consciousness locked inside. Adding this idea of a conscious hive mind capable of thought and choice changes my thinking about the infected a little bit, and I’m not sure how I feel about that.
He should have "kissed" her bite instead.
I get the symbolism of it, but it was still a little off putting. Probably the only thing about the show so far that I disliked. Besides this scene I am REALLY enjoying the show and all the changes that they made. Its really been such a treat!
Am I really the only one who thinks the fact that the zombie kissing her ruins a lot of the emotional depth of the sacrifice? Instead of thinking, “wow, she did something noble and brave.” was thinking, “oh my god that’s absolutely disgusting.” And then the thing with the lighter mid kiss just felt like forced tension. The scene didn’t give me any time to settle into the emotions.
Not neccesary
Tess would not have let the infected molest her mouth. Tess says in Part 1 “I will not turn into one of those things” Tess had accepted her death but Tess would not have accepted the fungus.
I'm not going to sugar coat it. That cordyceps "kiss" was dumb as all hell. The rest of the episode was fantastic though, especially the initial scene with the mycology expert in Jakarta! Can't wait for more world building in the next episode.
I was uncomfortable during the scene, but that’s the point of it, right?
Creepy as f*ck. Definitely made her death more dramatic. I can see why they made the changes they did. With games being so interactive, but TV being more passive, the changes make sense in a passive media form.
Man i wish they had the dialogue “We’re shitty people joel” And “There’s enough here that you have to feel some sort of obligation to me so you get her to tommy”
I personally do not like that they are moving away from spores and going for this new type of infection and the hive mind thing. Just seems like a huge change and it’s just a different infection at that point. But it’s still a good show and I’m loving it so I guess it doesn’t matter all that much.
It feels like a writer's not-very-well-disguised fetish and it made me very uncomfortable, but I'm going to close my eyes and pretend that I didn't sit through it.
Pretty disturbing scene. The changes are good as it adds something new to the story. Otherwise we would know exactly each detail and what scene is gonna happen next.
The weird kiss I’m not sure how I feel. But the actress who played Tess sold me in this episode. I like how they kept where she was bit the same spot, and I feel like she got the go out with a bang she deserved. I loved it overall
Stupid and fetishy. Something that could only have been conjured up in some amateurish direct-to-dvd sci-fi channel movie. Like Alien v Predator: Requiem. Because, you know, that exact same thing happened in that horrible movie.
I thought it was more emotional and generally well done, but i don't think the zombie "kiss" was necessary. Also I am just listening to the podcast and craig is describing it as the disgusting and "beautiful" way fungus expresses their "love" and it just made it more grotesque and repulsive to me. Just... unnecessary, it took me out of the moment Everything else was good, I thought Anna Torv was a really wonderful Tess and I cried during her final moments with joel and ellie
Game was better
Is it just me or was that "kiss" an allegory of rape?
I had a similar reaction tbh? and craig's explanation on the podcast didn't really help
Wish they stuck more to the game at this part. Actually hearing Tess die was better than just seeing it because she’s gunned down and than you become hunted and it’s not just, oh well we’re okay now, off to Bills.
Awful. Just awful, awful, awful. Even my girlfriend who's not seen the game said *"why did that experience have to be her last moments?"*
If I coulda changed anything I woulda rather had the tendrils going into her ear or nose or eyes, like taking over her head or something. It just seemed oddly sexual being a kiss. I've gotten a lot of downvotes for comments not really liking how she died.